Latest / Babes, how did you get here / Are You Japanese Enough? Harsh Truth behind the scenes

Transcript

Are You Japanese Enough? Harsh Truth behind the scenes · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  Did you ever feel any kind of resistance
• 0:03
  because you're biracial in Japan?
• 0:05
  Definitely.
• 0:06
  Definitely.
• 0:07
  Thankfully, I was surrounded by incredible people growing up.
• 0:11
  I had a lot of kind of mentors that I looked up to
• 0:14
  who had already walked the path of being kind of the rare bird
• 0:19
  of being, you know, bi-racially white in Asians,
• 0:22
  specifically, saying like, are you Japanese enough?
• 0:26
  Exactly.
• 0:27
  Megmi Wilson is a world traveler, a woman of many talents,
• 0:31
  singer, actress, and former Miss Japana Universe 2022
• 0:35
  second runner-up.
• 0:37
  She has carved a life for herself here in Cambodia
• 0:40
  that blends fashion, beauty, creativity, and purpose.
• 0:44
  As a former Miss Jamaica Universe myself,
• 0:46
  I am super excited for today's conversation.
• 0:49
  But first, I must ask, babes, how did you get here?
• 0:53
  That is a long story.
• 0:56
  But I'm going to cut it short.
• 0:57
  I'll give you the spark notes of it.
• 0:59
  So I first came to Cambodia in 2013.
• 1:03
  So about 12 years ago, that time I actually really
• 1:07
  wanted to go to the Philippines.
• 1:08
  And so when our pastor brought up in Japan, where I'm from,
• 1:13
  he brought up, we're going to Cambodia.
• 1:16
  I said, oh, Cambodia, I've heard of that country.
• 1:18
  That was it.
• 1:19
  I've heard of that country.
• 1:21
  Let me look it up.
• 1:22
  And that's where I started.
• 1:24
  I ended up going on the trip, which I am so glad I did.
• 1:28
  That trip completely changed my life.
• 1:30
  It was my first time outside of Japan in the States.
• 1:33
  And so just on so many levels, just on so many levels.
• 1:39
  And so this trip was with church?
• 1:41
  This trip was with church.
• 1:42
  And what were you doing?
• 1:43
  We were, the original plan was to go help build their preschool,
• 1:48
  that they, I believe, were just starting.
• 1:50
  But when we got there, they said, oh, don't worry,
• 1:52
  the team before you finish that project.
• 1:54
  So they said, all you got to do is just hang out with the kids.
• 1:58
  So he said, OK, and so we hung out with the kids.
• 2:01
  And to my surprise, a lot of them were not toddlers,
• 2:05
  only just toddlers.
• 2:06
  They were actually a lot of older kids.
• 2:08
  So they had an orphanage as well.
• 2:10
  And so many of the kids were the same age as myself,
• 2:14
  or some of them were even older, actually, at the time.
• 2:16
  And how old are you at this time?
• 2:17
  I was, let's see, I don't want to age myself too much.
• 2:21
  I was still in high school.
• 2:24
  And yeah, so I think that experience,
• 2:27
  I wasn't expecting to be meeting kids my age or older.
• 2:33
  And not all of them spoke English, but with, you know,
• 2:39
  with kind of, you know, sign language.
• 2:41
  Sure you get by.
• 2:41
  Yeah, we got by.
• 2:43
  And so I just remember sitting on the beach
• 2:45
  hearing some of these, you know, girl stories
• 2:48
  of what their life was before joining the orphanage
• 2:51
  and then how being in that environment
• 2:54
  had really changed their life.
• 2:56
  And I think that experience really just highlighted
• 2:59
  to me kind of how unique my own journey was as well.
• 3:05
  I think until then I just grew up thinking,
• 3:07
  oh, you know, school is normal.
• 3:10
  Right.
• 3:11
  I hate homework.
• 3:12
  Yeah.
• 3:13
  And then I had went on this trip to Cambodia, went back home
• 3:17
  and I was like, I get to go to school.
• 3:19
  I get to have homework.
• 3:21
  I get to have all these, you know, normal kid problems
• 3:24
  with my friends at school.
• 3:26
  And just that totally just reframed my whole perception
• 3:30
  of my own reality even.
• 3:32
  And so how long were you in Cambodia at that time?
• 3:34
  That time was only 10 days.
• 3:36
  Okay.
• 3:36
  And so these are working with children
• 3:38
  from different circumstances,
• 3:40
  but at that point they are all orphans.
• 3:43
  Some of them have parents, but they choose to send their kids
• 3:47
  to this orphanage.
• 3:48
  For an opportunity.
• 3:49
  Just for better opportunities.
• 3:50
  Okay.
• 3:50
  So a lot of them came from difficult backgrounds.
• 3:53
  I was in the countryside of Cambodia
• 3:55
  and a lot of them came from more abusive backgrounds.
• 3:59
  And so they were there.
• 4:01
  And yeah, some of them are still friends.
• 4:04
  We're still friends to this day.
• 4:05
  So yeah.
• 4:06
  So that is your first taste of Cambodia.
• 4:09
  And when you say back to high school,
• 4:11
  is high school at this point in Japan?
• 4:13
  In Japan.
• 4:14
  Can you explain to me where you're from
• 4:16
  and a little bit of the timeline?
• 4:17
  Sure.
• 4:18
  Sure.
• 4:19
  So I was born in South Carolina.
• 4:21
  Okay.
• 4:22
  My dad is from Kansas.
• 4:24
  My mom is from Okayama in Japan, rural parts,
• 4:29
  about maybe 10 hours away from Tokyo.
• 4:31
  Right.
• 4:31
  And they met in Texas.
• 4:33
  Okay.
• 4:34
  Yeah.
• 4:35
  They met in Texas.
• 4:36
  So we're kind of, we're very spread out.
• 4:37
  Right.
• 4:38
  But so my parents had me in South Carolina
• 4:41
  and then soon after they moved to Japan.
• 4:43
  Okay.
• 4:44
  So I grew up in Japan from four years old onward.
• 4:47
  Okay.
• 5:18
  And they were raised happy and healthy kids.
• 5:20
  So if you're tired of ringing it
• 5:21
  and ready to parent with intention,
• 5:23
  click the link to check out parent like a CEO.
• 5:26
  You've got these babes.
• 5:28
  And now you'll have the tools too.
• 5:29
  So you speak Japanese.
• 5:31
  I do.
• 5:32
  Your accent in English is very international.
• 5:35
  Did you go to an international school?
• 5:36
  I did.
• 5:37
  Okay.
• 5:38
  It's funny because I feel like
• 5:39
  all people that went to international schools
• 5:41
  have this kind of accent.
• 5:44
  That is very easy.
• 5:45
  It's very like natural.
• 5:47
  So I didn't realize that you're in Japan.
• 5:49
  I presume that you grew up in the States.
• 5:51
  90% Japan.
• 5:53
  Okay.
• 5:53
  Total, I've only spent four years after birth.
• 5:57
  Sure.
• 5:58
  And then two years after high school in the States.
• 6:00
  Okay.
• 6:01
  So culturally, I would say I lean more towards Asia.
• 6:04
  Right.
• 6:05
  Yeah.
• 6:06
  That's so funny because one of my questions
• 6:07
  was going to be, why did you choose to represent Japan?
• 6:11
  I know that you've explained the timeline.
• 6:13
  It makes complete sense to me.
• 6:15
  Because I was born in the UK, but I was raised in Jamaica.
• 6:18
  Oh, interesting.
• 6:19
  And so some people have questioned
• 6:21
  why did I choose to represent Jamaica?
• 6:23
  And for me, aside from the passport,
• 6:26
  don't get me wrong, you know.
• 6:27
  I love my country, but a British passport is just easier.
• 6:31
  But aside from the passport,
• 6:32
  I don't feel like I really identify with British culture.
• 6:37
  And I'm wondering from your perspective,
• 6:39
  because you have this duality as well.
• 6:41
  Do you feel like you identify with American culture?
• 6:46
  That is very hard for me to say.
• 6:48
  The two years I was there after high school were extremely.
• 6:52
  Okay.
• 6:53
  Because I'm speaking the same language.
• 6:55
  And, you know, I'd make trips growing up that were so fun.
• 6:58
  You know, always making new friends.
• 7:00
  But when I went after high school, it's a completely different game.
• 7:03
  And, you know, we're speaking the same language,
• 7:05
  but it felt like we're from completely different worlds.
• 7:08
  And it just was a bit difficult for me to relate,
• 7:12
  I think just because the environment that we grew up in
• 7:16
  was so different.
• 7:17
  Now, I think if I had been to New York or LA,
• 7:19
  it might have been an easier transition,
• 7:21
  but I went in the suburbs of Chicago.
• 7:24
  So it was quite, it was quite different from Tokyo, I guess.
• 7:28
  Right.
• 7:28
  And so can you explain to me,
• 7:30
  I've never been to Chicago.
• 7:31
  Okay.
• 7:32
  So can you explain to me how, like culturally,
• 7:35
  that's quite different?
• 7:36
  I would say, I would say,
• 7:39
  and I don't believe it's always about race,
• 7:42
  but I think that I just naturally tend to relate more
• 7:46
  to Asian culture, Asian values,
• 7:49
  Asian ways of communicating,
• 7:51
  and at least in the school that I was in,
• 7:53
  it was mainly people who had been born and raised in America.
• 7:57
  Sure.
• 7:57
  And so I think just culturally,
• 7:59
  there was just kind of,
• 8:01
  it felt like oil and water for myself.
• 8:04
  And there's so many aspects of the states
• 8:05
  that I really appreciate.
• 8:07
  I appreciate, you know, how they practice,
• 8:09
  like public speaking since they're little,
• 8:11
  and just the values,
• 8:14
  you know, more of the traditional values,
• 8:16
  I think, of the states that I really appreciate.
• 8:19
  But growing up, I just realized,
• 8:21
  wow, I am a lot more Japanese than I thought.
• 8:24
  Do you think from how people receive you?
• 8:27
  I, again, when I hear you,
• 8:30
  I hear in America, right?
• 8:32
  And so it's really interesting to have this conversation,
• 8:35
  to talk about how you feel and how your, like,
• 8:38
  customs are and you're growing up.
• 8:40
  And so I wonder if people hearing
• 8:44
  and immediately having put you in more of an Americanized box,
• 8:48
  how that differs from who you actually are
• 8:52
  because you've grown up in Japan.
• 8:54
  Right.
• 8:55
  That is a great question.
• 8:56
  Could you repeat that for me?
• 8:58
  Because to me, you're American.
• 8:59
  If I spoke to you, like, Meg,
• 9:00
  Hey, Meg, in my mind, you're an American, right?
• 9:03
  Because I didn't appreciate that you had been raised in Japan.
• 9:06
  And so I think that you, as an individual,
• 9:10
  leaning more to the Japanese culture,
• 9:13
  I'm interested to know how that shapes your personality
• 9:16
  and your character.
• 9:17
  Because I obviously have ideas.
• 9:19
  I lived in New York for four and a half years.
• 9:21
  Have ideas of Americans and what that means.
• 9:24
  I don't really have much experience with Japanese people.
• 9:26
  And so I'm just interested to know how
• 9:29
  Meg being raised in Japan is not the American Meg
• 9:33
  that I may have thought incorrectly that you were.
• 9:36
  OK.
• 9:37
  Right.
• 9:38
  Oh, man.
• 9:40
  That's a great question.
• 9:47
  I was really blessed that the high school I went to.
• 9:50
  Honestly, it felt like the UN was in Japan.
• 9:54
  This is in Japan.
• 9:55
  So we had people from all over the world.
• 9:59
  But we didn't really fixate on where each person is from.
• 10:04
  We all just came together with shared culture
• 10:08
  that we cultivated over the years.
• 10:10
  And I really appreciated that.
• 10:14
  And I think in the States, at least in the time that I went,
• 10:18
  they've just kind of been experiencing more of a divide.
• 10:21
  And I think I didn't experience it growing up
• 10:24
  because it was a different United States back then.
• 10:27
  And so I think I appreciate that.
• 10:32
  I mean, in Japan, obviously, there's a lot.
• 10:35
  Regarding, like, biracial people, whether they're acceptance
• 10:38
  and not and whatnot.
• 10:39
  There's just a lot regarding identity in Japan as well.
• 10:42
  But I think just the overall tone in Japan
• 10:45
  versus the States is very depressive.
• 10:48
  Yeah, yeah.
• 10:49
  Did you ever feel any kind of resistance
• 10:52
  because you're biracial in Japan?
• 10:55
  Definitely, definitely.
• 10:57
  Thankfully, I was surrounded by incredible people growing up.
• 11:03
  I had a lot of kind of mentors that I looked up to
• 11:07
  who had already walked the path of being kind of the rare bird
• 11:12
  of being, you know, biracial white in Asians, specifically.
• 11:16
  But it's funny because I think it's not, again,
• 11:21
  maybe I'm projecting my own ideas.
• 11:23
  But I think a lot of people, when they talk about being biracial
• 11:27
  or they talk about what that experience is like,
• 11:30
  it's a very black and white experience
• 11:32
  or black and something experience.
• 11:34
  I don't think people talk that much about having a white parent
• 11:39
  and an Asian parent and how that translates
• 11:42
  into the child's lived experience.
• 11:44
  And the reason I find it super interesting is
• 11:45
  because my children are black, white, and Chinese.
• 11:49
  Okay.
• 11:50
  So I mean, they're like, you know, to call us a benetun.
• 11:52
  Right.
• 11:52
  But when I see them, I mean, to me,
• 11:55
  I just raise them as black girls.
• 11:57
  They just happen to be a little bit light skin.
• 11:59
  But what's really interesting is that someone said to me,
• 12:02
  how is it having a white looking daughter
• 12:05
  and having an Asian looking daughter?
• 12:08
  And I was like, you see, my daughter looks white.
• 12:10
  I mean, she is blonde, doesn't help.
• 12:13
  And she does have like very light, almost haazily green eyes.
• 12:17
  But I didn't realize that's how,
• 12:20
  although people were perceiving her, you know,
• 12:22
  because when you know people,
• 12:25
  and this can be your friendship group, right?
• 12:26
  You know them as that individual.
• 12:28
  Yeah.
• 12:29
  And so you're not picking up on the context clues
• 12:32
  that other people are.
• 12:33
  Right.
• 12:34
  And so I've never really thought about the experience
• 12:37
  as white and Asian and what that means.
• 12:40
  If it's a struggle, or if it's just a normal experience.
• 12:45
  Right.
• 12:46
  I would say, I would say in Japan,
• 12:51
  there's really a complex dynamic to it,
• 12:54
  just with the history of the war.
• 12:56
  Sure.
• 12:57
  And so now, by racial kids are a lot more accepted,
• 13:02
  especially in media.
• 13:04
  But there's a strange tension of,
• 13:06
  oh, we all want to look like them.
• 13:07
  They're so pretty.
• 13:08
  Their noses are so tall.
• 13:10
  At the same time, especially those of us who grew up there,
• 13:13
  we're judged at a very high caliber.
• 13:16
  Our language, our mannerisms, our, you know, politeness,
• 13:20
  all these small details are nitpicked at.
• 13:22
  Okay.
• 13:23
  Is it saying like, are you Japanese enough?
• 13:24
  Exactly.
• 13:25
  Okay.
• 13:27
  So thankfully, for the majority of growing up,
• 13:30
  I was not surrounded by people who were judgey in that sense,
• 13:34
  I guess.
• 13:35
  But, but I did have a few instances
• 13:38
  where it caught me off guard,
• 13:39
  especially later on in my time in Japan,
• 13:43
  the pageant being one of them surprisingly.
• 13:46
  And so that was a little bit disheartening for me to see.
• 13:49
  I think growing up in my high school,
• 13:52
  I thought we were past that.
• 13:53
  Right.
• 13:54
  But it's not always the case.
• 13:55
  Sure.
• 13:56
  So, okay, pageant.
• 13:58
  Yes.
• 13:59
  Did you always know that you wanted to be in a pageant?
• 14:04
  No.
• 14:05
  Really?
• 14:06
  Well, that makes me excited.
• 14:07
  I didn't know either.
• 14:08
  Tell me, do you go first?
• 14:09
  Tell me how it came to be that you entered.
• 14:13
  Yes.
• 14:14
  Oh, man.
• 14:16
  I always joked about it with my friends in high school.
• 14:18
  Okay.
• 14:19
  I had some very close friends from the Philippines,
• 14:21
  which is a big pageant country.
• 14:24
  So we would always joke, oh, so and so,
• 14:26
  you should be, you should join a pageant.
• 14:28
  Oh, Meg, why don't you join Miss Universe?
• 14:30
  But it was always in the context of a joke.
• 14:32
  Right.
• 14:33
  Fast forward, I started my journey to Cambodia in 2020.
• 14:36
  Okay.
• 14:37
  This was right before COVID.
• 14:38
  So I spent one year.
• 14:39
  And this is my journey to move.
• 14:40
  This is my journey to move to Cambodia.
• 14:41
  Okay.
• 14:42
  Can I ask why, like what started that kind of fire in you,
• 14:46
  thinking that Cambodia could be home?
• 14:48
  I would say it started from the very first trip.
• 14:50
  Trip, okay.
• 14:51
  And I didn't fully claim it for myself until about 2019.
• 14:57
  Okay.
• 14:58
  So until then I always, it's a very kind of complex story,
• 15:01
  but it was just this whole journey of,
• 15:03
  oh, I have to prove myself before I accomplished that.
• 15:06
  Okay.
• 15:07
  And so I went to the university in the States
• 15:09
  for about a year and a half.
• 15:10
  So that was my time after high school in the States.
• 15:12
  And that's when I really started noticing every morning,
• 15:16
  I'm thinking about Cambodia every morning.
• 15:18
  And I'm just wondering, oh, I wonder how, you know,
• 15:20
  I wonder how the politicians are doing today in Cambodia.
• 15:23
  Just these really random thoughts.
• 15:25
  And I wonder how the royal family is doing today.
• 15:28
  Just these random thoughts.
• 15:30
  And I didn't necessarily have connection
• 15:31
  to anybody in the city, but I just started noticing it day after day.
• 15:36
  And I said, I'm in the wrong place.
• 15:38
  Okay.
• 15:39
  So I packed up my bags, came back to Japan,
• 15:42
  and I started learning the language in 2019.
• 15:45
  Okay.
• 15:45
  So I spent a year to prepare to move to Cambodia.
• 15:48
  And then in 2020 January, my first move happened.
• 15:52
  Okay.
• 15:53
  So you learned the language for a year.
• 15:54
  I did.
• 15:55
  Wow, that's impressive.
• 15:57
  Like so many people just move and they don't even speak
• 15:59
  while they're here.
• 16:01
  So you speak Japanese, come out and English.
• 16:03
  Yes.
• 16:04
  Wow.
• 16:05
  I want to be like you when I grow up.
• 16:06
  Thank you.
• 16:07
  Thank you.
• 16:08
  Sorry, back to the pageant.
• 16:09
  Yes.
• 16:10
  So 2020, I had moved to Cambodia, then the pandemic happened.
• 16:17
  So I spent the first year of the pandemic back in Japan,
• 16:20
  being close to my family.
• 16:22
  Second year, I spent it here in Cambodia.
• 16:24
  It was all lockdowns.
• 16:25
  It was one of the toughest times of my life.
• 16:29
  Can I ask why you chose to come back?
• 16:31
  Is it that you thought it was going to be open?
• 16:33
  I thought it was going to be open.
• 16:35
  Okay.
• 16:36
  The first year of pandemic did not hit Cambodia too hard.
• 16:38
  Okay.
• 16:39
  So all of my friends were messaging me saying,
• 16:41
  Meg, the coast is clear.
• 16:42
  You're free to come back.
• 16:44
  I came back.
• 16:45
  I'm doing my two weeks quarantine in the hotel.
• 16:47
  Right.
• 16:48
  And I see on my phone, there's a notification outbreak in Cambodia.
• 16:53
  And since then, it's just been, it was just lockdown after lockdown after lockdown.
• 16:57
  And you're here by yourself.
• 16:58
  I'm here by myself.
• 16:59
  Oh, no.
• 17:01
  And but somehow I was managed to stay here about 10, 11 months.
• 17:06
  And I was helping more with kind of a, I guess, kind of a little bit more like NGO
• 17:10
  that sphere.
• 17:11
  Okay.
• 17:13
  But at the end of my time, 10, 11 months, I had some big fallouts with that group.
• 17:19
  Okay.
• 17:20
  And so I went back to Japan and I thought I was just going to make a quick trip to Japan
• 17:24
  reunite with my family, then come back to Cambodia.
• 17:26
  Recharge.
• 17:27
  Recharge.
• 17:28
  Come back.
• 17:29
  Yeah.
• 17:30
  But when I went back to Japan, I thought to myself, oh, even if I go back to Cambodia
• 17:33
  now, I don't necessarily have a group I'm going back to.
• 17:36
  Okay.
• 17:37
  And I am just exhausted from the last, you know, dealing with pandemic as well as
• 17:41
  relationships, right?
• 17:44
  And so in Japan, just thinking to myself, okay, you know, I've worked this hard to get
• 17:48
  to Cambodia.
• 17:49
  This door is closed.
• 17:50
  What do I do next?
• 17:52
  And I really, I really, really, really believe that I saw on TV an advertisement for Miss
• 17:59
  Universe Japan.
• 18:00
  Okay.
• 18:01
  Applications are open.
• 18:02
  Yep.
• 18:03
  Later, they told me they never ran TV commercials.
• 18:05
  So I don't know where it came from.
• 18:07
  I just remember this opportunity, just kind of just presenting itself to me very clearly.
• 18:13
  And I, you know, I emotionally was not in the place to join a pageant, I felt, but
• 18:19
  I just just felt very clear why do you say that emotionally you weren't in a place to
• 18:23
  join?
• 18:24
  Oh, man, that I mean, you're in Cambodia was just very, very rough.
• 18:31
  Okay.
• 18:32
  I'm essentially out here by myself.
• 18:35
  Other than the three months in 2020, this is my first run in living in Cambodia while
• 18:41
  dealing with pandemic lockdowns, restrictions, are there going to be flights going back home?
• 18:46
  All this just global stress going on, right?
• 18:49
  And I'm amidst that, you know, the people I thought I would be working with long term,
• 18:54
  that completely collapsed.
• 18:56
  And so I just went home, just feeling very confused, feeling very defeated.
• 19:01
  And then, you know, pageant came up and I thought, oh, you know, actually, when I first
• 19:06
  came to Cambodia, I actually saw an advert and I thought, oh, how fun would it be to work
• 19:12
  in modeling and entertainment in Cambodia?
• 19:15
  But I had kind of just put that dream aside until this pageant showed itself and I thought,
• 19:19
  oh, is this my way back into that industry?
• 19:23
  And so I decided to apply and go for it.
• 19:27
  And it was, yeah, it was a great five, six months that we had.
• 19:33
  Is that how long you guys before your final?
• 19:36
  About four to five months we trained.
• 19:38
  Okay.
• 19:39
  So for people who don't know about pageants, when I decided to enter Mr. Maker, I don't
• 19:44
  think I told a single friend, to be honest, I think they all found out when the line
• 19:47
  up is in the paper, I'm not a pageant girl.
• 19:51
  Okay.
• 19:52
  What I mean by that is, I didn't wear heels.
• 19:55
  I didn't wear makeup.
• 19:56
  I'm not joking.
• 19:57
  I was, I had turned 19 after I won.
• 20:02
  Okay.
• 20:03
  No lie.
• 20:04
  I turned 19 eight days before I won, right?
• 20:06
  Wow.
• 20:07
  So 18 going on 19.
• 20:08
  I did not know the difference between foundation and powder.
• 20:10
  Wow.
• 20:11
  Like, I was that much, like, just not in that scene.
• 20:14
  And even when I told my dad that I was going to enter, he was like, what?
• 20:19
  And it just was on no one's radar.
• 20:22
  And I entered Mr. Maker because I was on my gap here.
• 20:26
  I had been an old pair in France and it didn't work out.
• 20:31
  I ended up running away from the house, but you know, that's a whole other story.
• 20:34
  And I really wanted to go home and I knew that if I was going to go home during my gap
• 20:38
  here, I would need to show my dad that I have like a well thought out plan.
• 20:42
  Jamaica has never won Miss Universe.
• 20:44
  We've won this world a few times.
• 20:46
  I thought, oh, it'd been nice to like be first of something.
• 20:49
  But I don't think I understood the gravity of pageants either.
• 20:53
  I think I kind of thought that they were a little bit more frivolous than they were until
• 21:00
  I got into it.
• 21:01
  But I'm interested to know what were your motivations for entering, Mr. Pan?
• 21:08
  Right.
• 21:11
  I wasn't a pageant girl either.
• 21:13
  So my sister and I had grown up doing modeling, acting, singing, growing up.
• 21:18
  So I'd done that from about five to 15.
• 21:21
  And then I just completely switched to school and Cambodia.
• 21:25
  So this whole world was pushed to the side.
• 21:29
  And here I am just feeling very down and disappointed.
• 21:32
  The pageant comes up and I thought, you know what, this isn't, this isn't unexpected,
• 21:38
  but this feels like the way to go.
• 21:40
  So I entered and I remember that prior to that, I always thought pageantry was way out
• 21:47
  there.
• 21:48
  Okay.
• 21:49
  It's just, you know, world for girls who are just, they wake up with curls in their hair.
• 21:54
  And I was not that girl.
• 21:56
  And so I remember just looking at the requirements though and what are their ideals, their values
• 22:02
  and I thought, oh, hold on.
• 22:03
  I think I actually, I actually fit into those categories more than I thought.
• 22:09
  And so that gave me a lot of confidence to move forward with it.
• 22:14
  I think specifically, I think specifically the part, part such as, you know, they value
• 22:21
  not just, not just the outward beauty and the poise, which I love that side as well,
• 22:27
  but as well as the inner qualities and, you know, how well we're able to, you know,
• 22:32
  speak our minds or stand up for different causes.
• 22:35
  And so I thought, you know, I always have had this, this driver, this passion for Cambodia
• 22:41
  and for, you know, just different aspects in Cambodia, of course, at that time, my focus
• 22:46
  was more on education, but, yeah, I thought, you know, I think this, this is really a good
• 22:52
  fit for me, actually, if I look deeper into it.
• 22:54
  Why did you choose Miss Universe and not Miss World or miss something else?
• 22:58
  That's a great question.
• 23:00
  So that's actually a great question.
• 23:03
  I didn't really, I don't think I really considered other pageants.
• 23:07
  I did look into them, of course, but the timeline for Miss Universe at the time was perfect.
• 23:12
  And I had actually walked in a show with our director at the time.
• 23:16
  Okay.
• 23:17
  Actually, she might have been in your year, uh, Hiroko?
• 23:19
  Yes.
• 23:20
  She was my year.
• 23:21
  Okay.
• 23:22
  So, yeah.
• 23:23
  So, yeah.
• 23:24
  So she, she's, she has been our director for the last five or six years.
• 23:28
  Okay.
• 23:29
  And so I saw that and I thought, oh, it's not a coincidence.
• 23:31
  I, I remember her specifically from a show I walked 10 years ago in high school.
• 23:36
  And here she is, the director of Miss Universe that just popped up on my TV in my mind.
• 23:41
  Right.
• 23:42
  Um, maybe it really didn't.
• 23:44
  We don't know.
• 23:45
  Um, and so it just kind of felt like the, the stars were lining as someone would say.
• 23:51
  And, um, yeah.
• 23:52
  And, and I, I also just love the brand of Miss Universe.
• 23:55
  There's, you know, there's, there's elegance, there's poise in that intelligence aspect
• 24:00
  as well.
• 24:01
  And so...
• 24:02
  This might be controversial.
• 24:03
  Yes.
• 24:04
  And you don't need to follow me down the line of controversy.
• 24:06
  Okay.
• 24:07
  But in my mind.
• 24:08
  I would love to.
• 24:09
  In my mind, there are only really two pageants, right?
• 24:12
  Okay.
• 24:13
  There is only Miss World and there's only Miss Universe.
• 24:15
  Okay.
• 24:16
  And I have seen more and more recently that there are so many other different titles like
• 24:21
  I have seen Miss Planet, Miss Tourism, Miss Nature, Walk Up a Hill.
• 24:29
  There's a lot of miss things, right?
• 24:31
  And I don't know if it's just because of our experiences in the, the franchise that
• 24:38
  is Miss Universe, but immediately when I see these other titles, I'm like, I don't
• 24:44
  understand in the sense that it feels a little bit money grabbing, you know, the industry
• 24:48
  of fashion and modeling for so many young girls is something that is aspirational.
• 24:54
  And I think that in the hands of the wrong people, it becomes exploitative, right?
• 25:01
  Because when a lady enters Miss Planet, I don't know the criteria for Miss Planet.
• 25:06
  So forgive me if I'm picking on the wrong pageant.
• 25:08
  However, I think that they are capitalizing on someone's hope and dreams of being crowned
• 25:14
  as a beauty pageant title holder without necessarily having the credibility that Miss
• 25:22
  Universe and Miss World have just because of time, right?
• 25:24
  With time comes prestige, right?
• 25:28
  Rightly or wrongly.
• 25:29
  I could be completely being a snob is my point.
• 25:31
  I could be completely wrong.
• 25:33
  But when, you know, I see these pageants sometimes I wonder if the pageant industry has kind
• 25:38
  of become more about the business of pageantry rather than about the contestant that is truly
• 25:47
  like dreaming on changing her opportunities and her life.
• 25:52
  Like I don't know if a Miss Planet can succeed as well as a Miss World or Miss Universe.
• 25:59
  Right.
• 26:00
  I would say even in the last, I mean, I think it was around from my year.
• 26:06
  So I competed in 2022.
• 26:08
  From around that time, there's been a lot of discussion even about, you know, the Miss
• 26:12
  Universe organization itself with leadership changing and everything.
• 26:15
  I think now more than ever, girls really, I would strongly encourage girls who want to
• 26:21
  join a pageant to really look at the core values of the organization.
• 26:27
  And I think the unfortunate part of it is, of course, people can present something one
• 26:31
  way and when you join, it can be something completely different.
• 26:35
  And so I think that's a little bit of the risk that girls have to take, but I am encouraged
• 26:40
  to see now more pageant queens, you know, speaking up, either speaking up about their experiences
• 26:46
  or fighting for the rights of the girls just to, you know, be given ample time to look
• 26:53
  through the contract before they sign in and to also, you know, be given the right to
• 26:58
  have somebody explain those, those, you know, criteria or whatnot on the contracts more
• 27:04
  thoroughly before they just jump into something.
• 27:07
  Do you think that there's still a need or a place for pageants?
• 27:14
  I want to hope so.
• 27:16
  I want to hope so.
• 27:18
  I
• 27:22
  did the process do for you.
• 27:24
  What did the process do for you personally?
• 27:27
  Wow.
• 27:30
  Oh my goodness.
• 27:31
  I feel there's so much I could say.
• 27:35
  I'm like filtering it out.
• 27:38
  I would say the experience of Miss Universe Japan and in Japanese, we have this great word.
• 27:45
  It's called a jibumigaki and so it means to kind of shine like scrub and shine yourself.
• 27:51
  You guys have such great words.
• 27:53
  I was just speaking to someone else from Japan today and I was like, how do you have words
• 27:58
  that capture so much in a single word?
• 28:01
  Yes, I don't know any like honestly.
• 28:03
  He was telling me about the word that means the Pitterpatter before the downpour, like
• 28:08
  before it goes cats and dogs, the little Pitterpatter outside.
• 28:11
  We don't have a word for that.
• 28:13
  It's incredible.
• 28:15
  Right.
• 28:16
  Right.
• 28:16
  I really do love the Japanese language.
• 28:18
  Honestly, I do.
• 28:19
  Yeah, my brain capacity can't handle it, but I love it at a distance.
• 28:23
  Sorry.
• 28:26
  Yeah, so I really feel like that word really captures what that experience was.
• 28:30
  And I do think that is a big part of pageantry that I want girls to go into it knowing that
• 28:38
  whether or not you're crowned, you are gleaming something from this experience.
• 28:43
  This is a very condensed time to get a lot of feedback from these professionals or people
• 28:52
  have been working in different industries.
• 28:54
  It's a very condensed time to get a lot of feedback from them and kind of get that third
• 28:59
  eye perspective on, you know, okay, how am I presenting myself?
• 29:03
  How am I showing up in different rooms?
• 29:07
  Where could I be kind of challenging or growing myself even further to become the ideal
• 29:12
  woman that I want to be?
• 29:13
  Can you tell me a bit about your process?
• 29:14
  Because I think that, for example, Jamaica, I don't think that we plan enough ahead.
• 29:21
  So the time that the Miss Jamaica gets crowned, even this year.
• 29:25
  So she got crowned a couple of weeks ago and then the final is happening in November,
• 29:31
  I believe, in Thailand, right?
• 29:33
  So that isn't that much time to prepare.
• 29:35
  And I remember going to Miss Universe and there were, you know, people representing their
• 29:40
  country and they have been Miss Venezuela, for example, for nearly a year before they're
• 29:46
  competing on the international stage.
• 29:48
  And I just wondered in terms of the preparation for your pageant, could you walk me through
• 29:54
  a little bit what that looks like?
• 29:55
  Right.
• 29:56
  So ours was also a very short amount of time from the crowning until the world competition.
• 30:01
  And so the organization, they really pushed us to really go as far as we can during the
• 30:06
  training process.
• 30:08
  So we're ready to just do the final prep and go.
• 30:10
  And what does training look like?
• 30:12
  Training for us, it was right after pandemic.
• 30:15
  So half was online.
• 30:17
  Oh, really?
• 30:18
  I keep forgetting.
• 30:20
  Yes.
• 30:21
  Really?
• 30:22
  Yes.
• 30:23
  Half was Zoom calls, half was in person with these clear masks, half face masks.
• 30:30
  I got a lot of acne on my chin that year.
• 30:33
  So you're doing part of your experience to train online.
• 30:37
  Yes.
• 30:38
  I didn't even think about that.
• 30:39
  Yes.
• 30:40
  Did you ever think maybe no is not a good year to try like, maybe I need to wait?
• 30:46
  Or was it that these signs were presenting and you were like, this is the time?
• 30:50
  Yeah.
• 30:51
  I felt like it was a right time for me.
• 30:53
  Right time for me.
• 30:54
  Okay.
• 30:55
  But how are you training someone to walk remotely?
• 30:58
  So our Zoom calls would mainly be question and answer and other basics.
• 31:04
  I think we had some makeup classes that were through Zoom.
• 31:07
  Sure.
• 31:08
  So not, you know, not the most ideal.
• 31:11
  But we made it work.
• 31:12
  We made it work.
• 31:13
  We did.
• 31:14
  Yeah.
• 31:15
  Did you get to connect with other contestants?
• 31:16
  It's also a huge part of the process too, since you guys were so physically apart.
• 31:21
  Right.
• 31:23
  We would connect in person more.
• 31:25
  Okay.
• 31:26
  Yeah.
• 31:27
  I do think it would have looked different if it was a prior year.
• 31:30
  So that was a little bit, that was a little bit unfortunate.
• 31:33
  It kind of felt like we're kind of close kind of now.
• 31:35
  Yes.
• 31:36
  Yeah.
• 31:37
  Interesting dynamic for sure.
• 31:39
  When I entered, I wasn't going to the final, right?
• 31:42
  I had said to my boyfriend at the time, I'm not going to the final because I was
• 31:46
  convinced, absolutely convinced that this other girl was set to win.
• 31:50
  Okay.
• 31:51
  Little things.
• 31:52
  She had entered before and hadn't won.
• 31:54
  And so she had a prior relationship with the organizers.
• 31:57
  Right.
• 31:58
  And we would have things like, we all had to have our dresses designed by the same designer
• 32:02
  to make it equal.
• 32:04
  But then she had her own dress that she got to pick.
• 32:07
  I was like, well, that little mechanism.
• 32:08
  We all had to have the same makeup team again to keep it equal.
• 32:12
  But she had her own makeup team.
• 32:15
  We didn't know like what all the events were, the schedules.
• 32:18
  But she knew.
• 32:19
  I was like, if you think I'm coming to this pageant, to look like I did and lose before I even
• 32:26
  got the chance to try and win, I'm not going.
• 32:29
  And my boyfriend at the time was like, your dad's company has sponsored you.
• 32:32
  So my sponsor on the sash was my dad's company.
• 32:36
  So he's like, even if it's just for his company to get a little bit of, you know, media coverage,
• 32:42
  then you should go.
• 32:43
  Right.
• 32:44
  The only reason I went to, I honestly, I wasn't going even like in my pageant, they wanted
• 32:50
  everyone to wear silver shoes, silver heels for the opening presentation.
• 32:55
  Okay.
• 32:56
  As I told you, I wasn't a heels girl.
• 32:57
  And I happened to have gold heels.
• 32:59
  And I said to them, I'm not buying silver heels because what am I going to do with these
• 33:02
  shoes if I don't win, lo and behold, I needed, you know, silver shoes.
• 33:08
  But that's not the point.
• 33:09
  The point is I then get to the pageant and obviously go through it and then I win, right?
• 33:14
  And I'm like, what the hell?
• 33:16
  I literally was not supposed to be here.
• 33:18
  So going back to what you're saying about like science and just listening to the universe
• 33:22
  and kind of following where you feel you're being led during your process and getting to
• 33:29
  that final, how did you feel when your name was called as the second runner up?
• 33:36
  Oh, man.
• 33:38
  All of the signs, I was fully convinced I was going to take home the crown, fully convinced.
• 33:46
  It was, you know, I had this really bad experience with these people where I just felt very belittled
• 33:52
  by this particular group here.
• 33:55
  And you know, I was like, oh, this is my comeback story.
• 33:57
  Right.
• 33:58
  This is my comeback story.
• 33:59
  I randomly had met the director 10 years ago.
• 34:02
  We didn't have any relationship, but I had walked in the same show as her.
• 34:05
  I'd remember her.
• 34:06
  I thought, she's a very interesting lady.
• 34:09
  And 10 years later, I'm like, oh, it's the same lady.
• 34:12
  So I join and, you know, I'm, I'm showing up and, and also one fun, really fun part of
• 34:19
  the, of the whole pageant transformation was, so I had, I had very damaged hair because
• 34:25
  it was COVID.
• 34:26
  I didn't have much to do.
• 34:27
  I went to die my hair a lot.
• 34:28
  Okay.
• 34:29
  So I had a bob with very damaged hair.
• 34:31
  And so of course, the Miss Universe team goes, we're going to chop that all off.
• 34:34
  Okay.
• 34:35
  I picked the, I had a pixie for the rest of the competition, and I was the only one with
• 34:38
  a pixie cut.
• 34:39
  Sure.
• 34:40
  I think there was one other girl with short hair.
• 34:43
  And you know, I was getting really great feedback.
• 34:46
  I was one of the very few who could, who had the English language down.
• 34:52
  Okay.
• 34:53
  And I was just, I was fully convinced.
• 34:56
  And I think it was even our mock, our mock competition right before the actual one.
• 35:02
  I had been, you know, had the highest points.
• 35:04
  You guys get a mock one.
• 35:05
  We got a mock one.
• 35:06
  See, I feel like Jamaica, we're not, we're not coming hard enough.
• 35:09
  Really?
• 35:10
  Yeah, we're not, we're not serious.
• 35:11
  We're not, I didn't have a mock one.
• 35:13
  That sounds great.
• 35:14
  It was.
• 35:15
  So do you get to get feedback based on your presentation?
• 35:17
  Yes.
• 35:18
  Okay.
• 35:19
  And they would tell us the points as well.
• 35:20
  Okay.
• 35:21
  So you know what you can work on?
• 35:22
  Exactly.
• 35:23
  What did you have to work on?
• 35:24
  Walking.
• 35:25
  Okay.
• 35:26
  Mine was mainly walking.
• 35:27
  Very cool.
• 35:28
  Yeah.
• 35:29
  Sorry.
• 35:30
  I like this.
• 35:31
  Yeah.
• 35:32
  I'm taking notes, babe.
• 35:33
  You're right.
• 35:34
  Absolutely.
• 35:35
  I only have one rule.
• 35:36
  A lot of people ask me, will my girls ever enter a pageant?
• 35:38
  Uh-huh.
• 35:39
  And my only rule is that they can't enter the same pageant, the same year.
• 35:43
  So I have no issue with my children competing, right?
• 35:46
  They're twins.
• 35:47
  So I have no issue with them competing.
• 35:48
  However, I feel like competing on something that is so subjective can become dangerous.
• 35:53
  If you're competing on a maths exam, the score is a score, you know, but something where
• 35:57
  people are judging you in that way, literally, right?
• 36:00
  You know, one can do Miss Whirl and one can do Miss Universe.
• 36:03
  You know how I feel about the rest.
• 36:04
  Yes.
• 36:05
  But that's really interesting that you had the opportunity.
• 36:08
  I love that.
• 36:09
  I also think that like what you're saying is that for being a part of the process,
• 36:14
  you still get to learn how you can improve in general, irrespective of the pageant.
• 36:19
  Yes.
• 36:20
  Absolutely.
• 36:21
  And one other thing that I wanted to mention about the various pageants out there, I
• 36:25
  think one reason that pulled me towards Miss Universe was that I kind of thought to
• 36:30
  myself, if I'm going to be putting the same amount of work and effort into a pageant,
• 36:34
  why not go big?
• 36:35
  Yes.
• 36:36
  And so I'm really glad that I that I went for it.
• 36:38
  Sure.
• 36:39
  Definitely.
• 36:40
  Yeah.
• 36:41
  So you get there on the day.
• 36:42
  Yes.
• 36:43
  Looking back on the actual day of your pageant, is there anything that you would change?
• 36:48
  The final day, the final day, oh man, I think, I mean, obviously it's a pageant.
• 36:58
  There's a lot of pressure, right?
• 37:00
  I think on the last day, I would have forgot what everybody told me and just had fun.
• 37:04
  Okay.
• 37:05
  Do you think you were listening too much to the feedback?
• 37:10
  Not necessarily too much, but I think I'm a pretty sensitive person.
• 37:15
  So when people give me feedback, I'm very hard on myself or like just naturally.
• 37:20
  So when I get feedback, it's very hard for me to kind of put that aside and say, okay,
• 37:24
  that's one person's opinion.
• 37:26
  And so when I'm getting feedback from two, three people telling me all different things,
• 37:29
  can just get very like, okay, I don't know how to show up.
• 37:33
  Sure.
• 37:34
  But I actually, I do, I really do feel like I was able to give my all on the final.
• 37:39
  And I remember just being backstage and just remembering, you know what, the outcome,
• 37:42
  it's going to be in God's hands.
• 37:44
  If he brought me this far, it's going to be in his hands.
• 37:46
  And so I thought, of course, I thought that meant winning.
• 37:50
  Sure.
• 37:51
  And so when I heard my name, I definitely was very taken, not taken it back, but just
• 37:57
  taken off guard by it.
• 37:59
  But simultaneously, you know, I remember, you know, I just was so confident that there
• 38:04
  were just so many signs all the way through just everything.
• 38:07
  Even how I got my preliminary stress, everything just lined up so just to the dot, so perfectly.
• 38:15
  And so I thought, okay, this outcome, too, I have to trust this is the perfect outcome
• 38:19
  for my life.
• 38:21
  And so after that, it's looked a lot like, okay, what does it mean?
• 38:24
  You're, you get an outcome that you didn't plan for, which I don't think many people
• 38:29
  talk about.
• 38:30
  And so I went looking, I wasn't looking for resources, okay, are there any pageant, you
• 38:34
  know, pageant queens that didn't get what they want, but are, you know, shining just
• 38:38
  as bright.
• 38:39
  I couldn't, I couldn't find anything.
• 38:40
  And so I do hope one day I would be able to, you know, give some, you know, provide some
• 38:45
  sort of guidance for girls who, you know, whether they're winners or not are fully satisfied
• 38:53
  or, you know, haven't fully kind of understood why the result was the way it was.
• 38:58
  And just learning how to navigate life after that and learning how to just continue to show
• 39:03
  up and shine.
• 39:04
  Did you ever think about entering Miss World or another pageant or trying again for Miss
• 39:09
  Universe?
• 39:10
  Definitely, definitely.
• 39:11
  And now that they've lifted the age restriction, I am so happy, I am so happy about that.
• 39:17
  I definitely do think I will, I will be making a comeback.
• 39:20
  Really?
• 39:21
  Yes.
• 39:22
  Yes.
• 39:23
  Oh my gosh.
• 39:24
  I can't wait for it, honestly.
• 39:26
  Really?
• 39:27
  What are you going to do differently this time?
• 39:29
  This time.
• 39:30
  Well, this time, oh gosh, I think this time I'm so much more comfortable with myself.
• 39:39
  I think, man, I just have so much like compassion on, you know, 2022, Meg, who competed even
• 39:47
  though she was at her lowest, and she did such a good job.
• 39:50
  And yeah, I'm just so grateful to her for that.
• 39:55
  So and I think next time when I compete, I think I will have more people around me that
• 40:01
  are fully supportive of me.
• 40:03
  And you're not doing things remotely with a mask like this?
• 40:06
  Exactly.
• 40:07
  No more acne, please.
• 40:09
  No more.
• 40:10
  That's really cool.
• 40:11
  Yeah.
• 40:12
  It's funny.
• 40:14
  Okay.
• 40:15
  And I was in New York and Miss Jamaica world contacted me to ask me if I would enter.
• 40:21
  Oh, wow.
• 40:22
  And I thought about it, as I said, when I entered Miss Jamaica universe at 18, my head
• 40:32
  was in a really different place.
• 40:33
  Like, even when I went to, so my year, the final was in Vietnam.
• 40:36
  Okay.
• 40:37
  And like, you're not allowed to go to the gym at Miss Universe for security reasons.
• 40:40
  I was told so your mentality of even being able to keep you like your physical routine
• 40:47
  that you were doing, I was just eating.
• 40:49
  I was just so into the food.
• 40:50
  I was like, oh, we're in Vietnam, like, let's just, and my head wasn't in, in pageant
• 40:55
  space.
• 40:56
  I also think that I, my dad raised me to value character and like intelligence and all
• 41:04
  of the inner workings of a human being more than the physical.
• 41:08
  Yes.
• 41:09
  And the lady who teaches us to walk, my dad came to Vietnam and he said to her, sorry,
• 41:13
  she said to him, you know, I wish your daughter knew that she was as pretty as she knows
• 41:18
  she's smart.
• 41:19
  Wow.
• 41:20
  And it's funny because that, like, the physical attractiveness is still something that
• 41:26
  I don't own, right?
• 41:27
  Like, my worth in my mind is that I'm one of the smartest people in the room, right?
• 41:33
  Like, it is that I can relate to different people.
• 41:36
  It's all these other things.
• 41:38
  And so when Mr. Maker World comes around, I said, oh, maybe I can take the lessons from
• 41:45
  a time where I was younger, more naive and interested in the buffet.
• 41:50
  And maybe I could apply them to this.
• 41:53
  But another part of me was like, babe, I'm a, I'm a Mr. Maker universe.
• 41:57
  I can't lose.
• 41:58
  Right.
• 41:59
  So like, there's a risk that you re-enter another pageant and then you don't win.
• 42:04
  Right.
• 42:05
  My question to you is, your Miss, you know, Japan at Universe 2022, and you've had a place,
• 42:13
  you have that.
• 42:14
  Does any part of you think that you're a bit nervous to go for it again and perhaps not
• 42:20
  come out on top having had that positive experience?
• 42:24
  Oh, definitely.
• 42:25
  Really?
• 42:26
  Definitely.
• 42:27
  I think it would be much easier, less risk if I hadn't placed at all.
• 42:31
  Yes.
• 42:32
  You know, easy.
• 42:33
  Oh, what do I have to lose?
• 42:34
  But I do think, there have been a few pageants that have approached me from Japan, asking
• 42:40
  me to represent Japan or compete in their competitions.
• 42:43
  And I always have to wrestle with that.
• 42:45
  Okay.
• 42:46
  What is that going to look like, even just, you know, having titles from different pageants
• 42:52
  as well and just what they represent?
• 42:54
  And so I've allowed myself to be picky and also trust that when the time is right, I'm
• 43:01
  going to know it.
• 43:02
  Sure.
• 43:03
  And I'm, there's going to be the signs and I'm going to just have an interknowing that,
• 43:06
  okay, this is, this is the time I'm going to show up, show out.
• 43:09
  And hopefully, you know, take, take home the crown.
• 43:12
  That's cool.
• 43:13
  So I have a question about identity.
• 43:15
  When I won Miss Jamaica, there were some people that said I wasn't black enough, which
• 43:19
  I was like, okay, really, you know, and then there's other people, my accent, as you might
• 43:23
  have heard, can go all over the place.
• 43:25
  And so for some people, I wasn't Jamaican enough because I was born in the UK and only
• 43:29
  raised in Jamaica.
• 43:31
  And it was so strange because it was the only time that I had ever been in a situation
• 43:35
  where people were questioning my nationality or, you know, my patriotism and not just questioning
• 43:42
  my patriotism, but questioning whether I was allowed to own Jamaica in the way that, like,
• 43:48
  for me, being Jamaican is everything, even though like, I feel like all that I do career
• 43:56
  wise with my restaurants, you know, online, everything is just to showcase my love for
• 44:01
  Jamaica and also broaden people's perspective when they think of Jamaica.
• 44:06
  So then to have a group of people saying that actually you're not even allowed to own
• 44:11
  your home because of whatever reason, it was really odd.
• 44:15
  I think I've never been a sensitive person.
• 44:18
  So it didn't phase me in the sense of question.
• 44:23
  It was just a strange experience.
• 44:25
  And I'm wondering as someone who has, you know, dual nationality and has a mixed heritage,
• 44:33
  were there any moments during the pageant where people had any similar kind of criticism?
• 44:39
  Absolutely.
• 44:40
  Really?
• 44:41
  It was the weirdest thing.
• 44:43
  It was the weirdest thing.
• 44:46
  There was one instant after the competition actually I met up with one of the girls and
• 44:50
  we were just sitting at a pasta restaurant, very, very chill, just, you know, enjoying our
• 44:55
  cake, our tea, our pasta, just having a girl's tea time and out of the blue, she comments,
• 45:01
  you know, Meg, where you're sitting is where the most important person is supposed to sit
• 45:06
  at a table in Japanese culture.
• 45:08
  Explain that to me, the layout.
• 45:10
  So in business settings, there's seats where the most important person is supposed to
• 45:16
  sit for this away from the door.
• 45:18
  Okay.
• 45:19
  And this goes back to like, samurai times, right?
• 45:22
  Okay.
• 45:23
  So if there's ever an attack, yes, they're the last one to get any damage.
• 45:27
  Sure.
• 45:28
  So, so out of the blue, she just says that kind of implying like, are you, you know,
• 45:31
  are you, do you think you're higher than me?
• 45:33
  Right.
• 45:34
  And I was just so taken aback, I was, I was like, girl, we're not.
• 45:38
  Is this a business meeting?
• 45:39
  I was, I was not aware.
• 45:42
  And so I think just things like that, it was kind of odd to see what kind of comes out
• 45:48
  of people.
• 45:49
  Sure.
• 45:50
  I think when they're under pressure or, you know, they, they kind of, I don't know, or maybe
• 45:54
  kind of, you know, viewing each other as, as the difference or, and so, yeah, because
• 46:01
  growing up and also my mom, so she left to the states when she was 28 years old, which
• 46:08
  not many people did back then in her day.
• 46:11
  And so what made her leave?
• 46:13
  She just wanted to change her life.
• 46:16
  Okay.
• 46:17
  And she had just, you know, been born and raised in Japan and said, there's more to me
• 46:21
  for than this.
• 46:22
  Okay.
• 46:23
  And she just packed her bags and went and got married and started her life with my dad.
• 46:28
  Right.
• 46:29
  But I think even just having my mom be who she is of not being so tied down to what a
• 46:37
  Japanese person needs to look like, sound like, be like, and of course she teaches, you
• 46:42
  know, she's just naturally, she's, she's Japanese, but she's not so tied down to this, what,
• 46:49
  what being a Japanese person needs to look like specifically, you know, she's, she always
• 46:54
  kind of brought up my sister and I, be ourselves in our fullness, not necessarily this way
• 47:00
  or that, which I think is, you know, it really gave us freedom to truly, you know, be ourselves,
• 47:05
  which I'm so grateful for.
• 47:07
  And so I think, I think just discovering that there are people that don't hold those
• 47:12
  same values was quite a turn off for me.
• 47:19
  And so yeah, I'm just appreciative of, you know, people like my mom or others that raised
• 47:23
  me, that always valued the person more than national identity per se.
• 47:29
  And so, you know, I still, of course, really want to represent Japan on the world stage.
• 47:35
  I love what Japan is about.
• 47:38
  I think there's just so many beautiful things to the country, to the culture that the world
• 47:42
  doesn't know yet.
• 47:43
  And so I'd love to be the spokesperson of that, I'd love to be the representative of
• 47:47
  that somehow.
• 47:48
  What are some of the things that we need to know?
• 47:50
  Oh, do I want to share this?
• 47:56
  Or what does being Japanese mean to you?
• 47:58
  Yeah.
• 47:59
  Oh man.
• 48:01
  The first thing that comes to mind is just kindness.
• 48:04
  There's just a deep, deep kindness.
• 48:06
  And I know it's not always been that way.
• 48:08
  I know that, you know, there's part of, you know, there's an aspect to all Asian countries
• 48:13
  that, you know, the parents are a bit harsh with their kids.
• 48:15
  And I think my mom really worked hard not to pass that down onto us.
• 48:21
  And so, you know, I really, I've really, really championed her as well as, you know, other
• 48:26
  Japanese women who have just said, you know what, we're not going to pass that down.
• 48:30
  It's raise our kids with kindness and, but I've been just, just been so blessed by, I
• 48:36
  mean, you know, and there's some people who don't like the pull over politeness of the
• 48:41
  store clerks or just, you know, like the bus drivers and whatnot.
• 48:45
  But personally for myself, I really, I really think that it's, those are positive traits.
• 48:53
  Just to treat each other with kindness, with politeness.
• 48:56
  And of course, I don't want it to get to the point where it's overbearing.
• 49:00
  Where people are, you know, doing it out of obligation.
• 49:03
  Right.
• 49:04
  But I've, but generally for the most part, I've really appreciated just, just the standard
• 49:10
  of kindness that we're expected to give each other.
• 49:14
  Sure.
• 49:15
  Yeah.
• 49:16
  Are there any misconceptions about pageant world that you think need to kind of be dispelled?
• 49:22
  Ooh.
• 49:23
  Ooh.
• 49:24
  In general?
• 49:25
  Yes.
• 49:26
  Worldwide?
• 49:27
  For example, I always thought that pageant girls were quite surface level, you know, superficial.
• 49:38
  And I think having been in a pageant, I'm not sure that my opinion changed.
• 49:45
  I think just from my experience, I remember being struck by certain things.
• 49:52
  So my year, a lot of people had plastic surgery, right, like a lot.
• 49:57
  And some people started their surgery as young as 14.
• 50:00
  Oh, wow.
• 50:01
  And I was like, your body isn't even developed yet, right?
• 50:03
  Wow.
• 50:04
  And again, coming from a Mr. Jackson, what do we value in life?
• 50:09
  A lot of, I appreciate we're now in the world of fillers and all the things.
• 50:12
  And yes, people should do what they want to do.
• 50:13
  And on an individual level, I don't care what you want to do to your face.
• 50:17
  Right.
• 50:18
  And on a bigger level, I think that it's a strange place to be in where we're endorsing,
• 50:24
  you know, cosmetic procedures as empowerment.
• 50:28
  I think it's a strange place to be in when we are normalizing the fact that you can just
• 50:34
  kind of make an appointment real quick and inject things into your face.
• 50:38
  Right.
• 50:39
  I thought it was weird before children, but I especially think it's weird now from the
• 50:42
  perspective of what is the world going to look like when my four year olds are now 16.
• 50:48
  Right.
• 50:49
  And it's funny because going back to Mr. Maker World, they asked me if I would have
• 50:52
  my nose don't, if I'd get a rhinoplasty.
• 50:55
  And in person, I don't have an issue with my nose.
• 50:58
  In pictures, I'm not a fan.
• 51:00
  So I definitely thought about it and I kid you not.
• 51:03
  At that time, I was about 21 and I said, you can already Google me, right?
• 51:09
  Because of Mr. Maker Universe.
• 51:11
  If I have children, what am I going to say to them when I want to empower them to love
• 51:16
  themselves as they are, if they could go online and see that, well, now you have a nose
• 51:21
  like this.
• 51:22
  And before you didn't have a nose like that, and thank goodness I didn't get a nose job
• 51:25
  because I swear both of them have my nose.
• 51:27
  So it would be like, I've disowned a part of my face that I know need my child to love.
• 51:35
  And I guess when I was at Miss Universe, like one lady, she still had stitches under her
• 51:40
  arms from her surgery.
• 51:42
  And we'd have breakfast and one country would be feeling another lady's breasts because
• 51:48
  one had saline and one had silicone and they wanted to feel like the difference between
• 51:52
  that.
• 51:53
  And so I appreciate it.
• 51:55
  People ask me when was I, Mr. Maker and I jokingly say 1962 because that's the year
• 52:00
  we got independence and it's so long ago that it might as well be 1962.
• 52:04
  So I appreciate that some things have changed.
• 52:06
  However, I don't think that in a world where everyone's getting filler casually, I don't
• 52:12
  think that pageant world has changed in the sense that I think there is an aspect to
• 52:18
  it that is very skin deep that might be a stereotype, but you know, also sometimes
• 52:24
  stereotypes come from a place.
• 52:27
  And that part of the pageant world, I wouldn't want my kids to subscribe to.
• 52:32
  Right.
• 52:33
  Absolutely.
• 52:34
  I, in terms of beauty or having things done, our year wasn't too heavy on it.
• 52:43
  And so the organization, you know, they would say like, oh, maybe, you know, change your
• 52:47
  teeth a bit or, you know, if you want to, you could, but we're not going to force you
• 52:51
  to.
• 52:52
  Sure.
• 52:53
  We're not going to necessarily endorse it, but you are free too.
• 52:56
  And so I appreciated that stance of, there's freedom to, and, you know, if you really
• 53:00
  want to change something, maybe do this, but you're not obligated to, thankfully, I didn't
• 53:05
  experience any of that.
• 53:09
  I would say there were other kind of steered types of pageantry that I did encounter, though,
• 53:15
  just in terms of caddy behavior.
• 53:18
  Some of my items went missing and, you know, just things like that.
• 53:23
  So that was kind of unfortunate to see, but, yeah, thankfully, I, I feel like, I mean,
• 53:30
  I guess my kind of hope for pageantry, if it does continue in the years, is just kind
• 53:36
  of to bring more of a holistic, holistic empowerment to girls, if that makes sense.
• 53:43
  And what does that look like?
• 53:46
  I would say, I would say, you know, I mean, obviously, over emphasis on any aspect over
• 53:54
  another is always a little bit dangerous, right, whether it's beauty or whether it's only
• 53:59
  on our internal, in the world of pageantry, I feel like, ideally, there's this nice balance,
• 54:05
  nice mix.
• 54:06
  And fortunately, I think it's very difficult too.
• 54:10
  But I mean, even seeing, you know, even seeing people like Natalie Globoba, but she's somebody
• 54:16
  that, you know, has continued in pageantry and coaching girls, but I really appreciate
• 54:22
  more of her holistic approach to it.
• 54:25
  And I believe that's something I want to see more of.
• 54:27
  And if I ever do go back into pageantry, or if I'm ever given the opportunity to be
• 54:32
  in the side of coaching or training up girls, I would, I would love to be able to bring
• 54:38
  more of a holistic approach and say, hey, you know, you know, it is a great time to objectively
• 54:45
  look at things, but don't go overboard to any aspect, you know, your life is long.
• 54:51
  Take this as an amazing opportunity to kind of, you know, set the stage of your own life
• 54:55
  and what you want that to look like, but don't go too crazy.
• 55:00
  You don't have to go too crazy.
• 55:02
  It's funny.
• 55:03
  I was giving a talk at a school in the UK and it was, they were age 16, so just about
• 55:09
  to finish high school and I deliberately didn't wear too much makeup.
• 55:13
  I had a shawl because I'm like thinking that these are young, impressionable girls.
• 55:19
  And when I got to this graduation, I saw boob tape flying off on the stage.
• 55:26
  No, honestly, I saw hookah heels, right?
• 55:29
  They're tripping over themselves.
• 55:31
  I saw like real housewife level, like hair, I was so confused.
• 55:38
  And I was like, and here's me and a shawl, kind of be modest.
• 55:41
  And meanwhile, all of this was happening on stage.
• 55:44
  I was genuinely confused.
• 55:45
  Also, I understand I had come from Jamaica where we have like for our graduation, you
• 55:50
  wear the American style, like gone, but even underneath the gone, your dress had to be
• 55:55
  below your knee.
• 55:56
  Like we had code of conduct, you couldn't, you couldn't come to school like this.
• 55:59
  It just wouldn't have been out.
• 56:00
  So I was traumatized.
• 56:01
  Okay.
• 56:02
  I left this graduation.
• 56:03
  I called my sister.
• 56:04
  I didn't have kids.
• 56:05
  I called my sister.
• 56:06
  I'm like, is this how young girls are behaving in, and apparently this was a good school,
• 56:11
  right?
• 56:12
  So I was confused.
• 56:13
  And I said, you know, if my nieces don't behave in this way, are they then going to be
• 56:18
  ostracized because they're not the cool kids?
• 56:20
  Because I was just like, you have 16 year olds looking like they're 28 trying to get
• 56:23
  into a Western club.
• 56:24
  I was very, very confused.
• 56:26
  So I innocently put something online on Twitter at the time saying, you know, I've just
• 56:32
  come from a graduation.
• 56:33
  I didn't say which school and I've just said, you know, I've seen these things.
• 56:37
  And I am genuinely confused, babes.
• 56:40
  The parents were not happy.
• 56:42
  Oh, they're not happy.
• 56:44
  They started writing negative Google reviews for my restaurant, they started calling up
• 56:50
  the restaurant to ask who do I think I am.
• 56:53
  And then a lot of the rhetoric was, you were misuniverse on stage in a bikini.
• 56:58
  And now you're judging our kids who, by the way, do very well in school as if two things
• 57:03
  can't be true at the same time.
• 57:04
  You can't look like a whole and be smart.
• 57:06
  But anyway, and I was just like, the two are not the same.
• 57:10
  Like in my mind, competing at misuniverse and yes, being in a bikini on stage, which
• 57:15
  by the way was my least favorite part, but I was the chick who wore t-shirts to the beach.
• 57:20
  And now you're asking me to stand up in public with no clothes on.
• 57:22
  But anyway, the two aren't the same because you're 16 graduating from high school.
• 57:29
  And that is a criteria to be in misuniverse.
• 57:32
  Right.
• 57:33
  So I guess my question is in terms of a lot of people's idea of modern feminism and what
• 57:39
  that looks like, there's often the criticism that beauty pageants object to five women.
• 57:44
  Yes.
• 57:45
  And I'm not going to tell you what I think about it.
• 57:46
  I want to hear first what you think in terms of that stuff.
• 57:50
  I would say it really depends on the organizers.
• 57:53
  OK.
• 57:54
  Are, I mean, Japan is traditionally more conservative, right?
• 57:58
  And so I really appreciated that.
• 58:01
  Some of the girls, you know, they, you know, they wore what they wanted, they showed what
• 58:04
  they wanted.
• 58:05
  But, you know, others of us were like, you know what, I think I'm going to choose the
• 58:08
  conservative one.
• 58:09
  OK.
• 58:10
  I don't think, you know, generally, I mean, even in day to day wear, Japan is quite covered
• 58:15
  up.
• 58:16
  I'm compared to here, actually.
• 58:19
  So I never felt, thankfully, I never felt objectified or I never felt uncomfortable during
• 58:26
  the process.
• 58:27
  Thankfully, I can see how it could easily turn into something like that.
• 58:33
  Unfortunately, and I do think some pageants really do kind of, you know, push the girls
• 58:38
  to be more showy or to act a certain way, which again, that's why I would push girls
• 58:43
  who are interested in interested in pageantry to really take a look at what is the overall
• 58:48
  kind of mission or vision of the pageant.
• 58:52
  What are their core values and do you align with it?
• 58:56
  Thankfully, yeah, I think, thankfully, I never felt too uncomfortable, but just watching
• 59:04
  online, I do see how certain pageants do kind of, you know, maybe they'll put in an extra
• 59:10
  portion of, you know, bikini wear or even some of them have, like, lingerie shows, which
• 59:16
  I don't see the point.
• 59:17
  They have lingerie shows.
• 59:19
  I didn't know that.
• 59:21
  Really?
• 59:22
  OK.
• 59:23
  Cool.
• 59:24
  Yeah.
• 59:25
  And it wasn't part of the, it wasn't even part of their criteria.
• 59:32
  And so I said, why do we need, why do we need them?
• 59:34
  Sure.
• 59:35
  Who's this for?
• 59:37
  And so I did not join that pageant.
• 59:39
  Wow.
• 59:40
  Yeah.
• 59:41
  Really interesting.
• 59:42
  What do you think the title has done for you?
• 59:44
  So my sister teases me all the time and she's like, oh, my god, here you go, talk about
• 59:48
  Mr. Maker again.
• 59:49
  And it's funny.
• 59:50
  To be fair, I only talk about Mr. Maker when people bring up Mr. Maker.
• 59:53
  OK.
• 59:54
  But I do always say, once a Mr. Maker, always a Mr. Maker, in the sense that there is
• 59:59
  always going to be a finite number of people that enter these pageants, right?
• 1:00:02
  And in a world where we are constantly trying to differentiate ourselves, you know, outline
• 1:00:07
  what your unique selling point is, people know it is, everyone's on a personal brand.
• 1:00:12
  You know, when I went to the UK, I went to be on a reality TV show that was around business
• 1:00:17
  and I knew that they were going to pick me and I knew they were going to pick me because
• 1:00:21
  I would tick enough boxes for them, but Mr. Maker was a part of that box, right?
• 1:00:25
  Yes.
• 1:00:26
  And so I say to people a lot of the time that it's a card that is always at your expense,
• 1:00:32
  you know, you can always play the Mr. Maker card.
• 1:00:34
  Right.
• 1:00:35
  It's wondered, you know, it's been on a couple of years for you, only a few years.
• 1:00:39
  But what do you think that having that title has done for you and shaped whether career
• 1:00:45
  professionally, how has it helped or not helped?
• 1:00:49
  Right.
• 1:00:50
  It's been interesting for myself in the sense that, so pageantry really peaked in Japan
• 1:00:56
  about 20 years ago.
• 1:00:59
  And unfortunately, it still hasn't made its comeback.
• 1:01:03
  Right now in Cambodia, though, it's totally on the rise.
• 1:01:06
  It's the hot topic.
• 1:01:08
  Everybody loves, loves pageantry.
• 1:01:11
  They love their queens.
• 1:01:12
  And so coming back to Cambodia after the pageant has, it's really made a difference
• 1:01:19
  having a title versus not.
• 1:01:21
  Okay.
• 1:01:22
  So it has worked in my favor, thankfully.
• 1:01:24
  And I'm grateful for that.
• 1:01:25
  I've had chances to work in Vietnam being a judge in one of their pageants and being
• 1:01:32
  able to give tips to these girls.
• 1:01:34
  And that has just been, that has been huge because that's what I always wanted to do.
• 1:01:39
  And so I was very, I was very, and I don't think my whole, you know, I don't think I've
• 1:01:46
  accomplished everything that I have yet with this title.
• 1:01:50
  Sure.
• 1:01:51
  But I do believe that, you know, not winning in Japan actually could have maybe working
• 1:01:57
  in my favor just because in Japan, people are a little bit, they kind of have questions
• 1:02:02
  and marks when you talk about pageantry.
• 1:02:04
  When you say you've been in a miscompetition, they're kind of like, oh, what is that?
• 1:02:08
  Oh, really?
• 1:02:09
  Yeah.
• 1:02:10
  Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  It's just not, it's not on TV.
• 1:02:13
  It's not really in the news, only time to time when there's some kind of, you know, dramatic
• 1:02:17
  event happening.
• 1:02:18
  Right.
• 1:02:19
  Scandals.
• 1:02:20
  Yes.
• 1:02:21
  Yes.
• 1:02:22
  But you think it has more value outside of Japan?
• 1:02:25
  Definitely.
• 1:02:26
  Definitely.
• 1:02:27
  What draws you to Cambodia coming back to that move?
• 1:02:30
  I appreciate that you had different plans, but the fact is that you still came back to
• 1:02:35
  Cambodia.
• 1:02:36
  Yes.
• 1:02:37
  What is it about Cambodia?
• 1:02:38
  Oh, gosh.
• 1:02:39
  Oh, man, it really did start in 2013, and there was, there was just this moment.
• 1:02:50
  They took us to one of these remote islands, it's very remote.
• 1:02:56
  And the, you know, on this island, I just, it's just kind of this, you know, there's
• 1:03:03
  just click.
• 1:03:04
  And, you know, I always feel like it's like a glimpse of destiny that I got.
• 1:03:08
  And that was my life, you know, later on in my later years.
• 1:03:11
  And I'd never had something like that, but it involved being in Cambodia.
• 1:03:16
  And so since then, it's kind of been this journey of discovering, okay, what is that?
• 1:03:20
  What did I see then?
• 1:03:22
  And it was so far off from, you know, my high school self.
• 1:03:25
  And so I was like, okay, this is going to take time.
• 1:03:27
  And it has.
• 1:03:29
  So there's, you know, there's this part of me that, that always feels this pullback.
• 1:03:33
  But other than that, it's just simply like this, this love, this knowing, I'm still stuck
• 1:03:39
  on the fact that you committed to learn from me before you got here.
• 1:03:43
  That's commitment.
• 1:03:44
  Yeah.
• 1:03:45
  Is this, do you see Cambodia as, as home?
• 1:03:49
  Yes and no.
• 1:03:50
  Okay.
• 1:03:51
  Yes and no.
• 1:03:53
  You know, I hear stories of so many expats who come here on a layover, on a visa run.
• 1:03:59
  And they say, you know, I was supposed to be here three days and I ended up being here
• 1:04:02
  30 years.
• 1:04:03
  Sure.
• 1:04:04
  And I said, I want that.
• 1:04:05
  I said, I want that.
• 1:04:06
  And it did not go that way at all.
• 1:04:10
  You know, after three months, pandemic happened, I went right home.
• 1:04:14
  And I was like, man, okay, okay, this is, this is how it's going to go.
• 1:04:18
  And so it's kind of, it's always felt a little bit like this uphill, uphill battle for
• 1:04:23
  myself in coming here.
• 1:04:27
  But I, I always just try to remind myself of kind of the long term.
• 1:04:32
  I always come back to that, you know, vision, if you will, that I saw in 2013 of myself living
• 1:04:37
  here and working here.
• 1:04:40
  But there's just something about this country, just this, just this charm, this, this
• 1:04:45
  humanness to it.
• 1:04:47
  And it's, I mean, it's a country that's been through a lot of hardship and, you know, continues
• 1:04:53
  to, but there's just a part of me that, you know, there's a part of me that's like, you
• 1:04:59
  know, I don't know what I could even offer this country, this, this, this, you know, this
• 1:05:04
  nation.
• 1:05:05
  But whatever, if there is anything, I would gladly, you know, I would gladly sacrifice
• 1:05:09
  for this country.
• 1:05:11
  So I feel like and correct me if I'm not correct, correct me if I'm not correct, correct
• 1:05:17
  me if I'm wrong.
• 1:05:19
  Your life in Japan, it feels pretty good, right?
• 1:05:23
  Like it, you have the comfort of your family, which clearly means a lot to you.
• 1:05:26
  Yes.
• 1:05:27
  You're able to achieve certain things.
• 1:05:28
  You've done the pageant.
• 1:05:29
  There's a lot to, to want to stay there for.
• 1:05:31
  Yes.
• 1:05:32
  That's what I'm saying.
• 1:05:33
  Yes.
• 1:05:34
  And so I'm really curious to understand the thought process behind leaving that space
• 1:05:39
  of comfort to move to a country that, yes, you have this spiritual connection of sorts,
• 1:05:44
  right?
• 1:05:45
  But you don't have that system, that complex system, exactly what inspires you to make that
• 1:05:53
  big decision.
• 1:05:54
  I mean, I think when I made the decision to move here in 2020, so 2019 and came back
• 1:06:02
  to Asia from the States, and my, it was my sister who pushed me to learn the language.
• 1:06:07
  She said, Meg, this is always, Cambodia has always been a dream for you.
• 1:06:12
  Even if you're not flying out there tomorrow, because that's kind of a lot, why don't you
• 1:06:16
  prepare for it?
• 1:06:17
  So she really kind of sparked that in me to just prepare, in faith, that it's going to
• 1:06:22
  happen one day.
• 1:06:25
  But man, I would just say, I mean, the beginning, it was just this, just this very clear knowing,
• 1:06:32
  right?
• 1:06:33
  Constantly, there's just like this longing and just everything about Cambodia would
• 1:06:38
  excite me, even just looking at a map of Penalp and I was like, oh, there's so many things
• 1:06:41
  I don't know, like I want to know what all the neighborhoods are like and what kind of
• 1:06:46
  shops they have and what's the history here.
• 1:06:48
  And it's just this, just this genuine like curiosity and love and, and I think that's
• 1:06:54
  what kind of really started me.
• 1:06:57
  But now, after being here for a few years and there's been about four, okay, four,
• 1:07:03
  and a half years.
• 1:07:04
  Yeah.
• 1:07:05
  Yeah.
• 1:07:06
  But on, you know, it's almost been six years since I've made my first trip, first, first
• 1:07:12
  move.
• 1:07:15
  And so of course, there's, you know, there's a lot of things that come with moving to a
• 1:07:20
  new country that are just difficult on a human level.
• 1:07:25
  And especially not having like family or a group of friends that are already here, a
• 1:07:29
  lot of it has just been, okay, we're starting at ground zero.
• 1:07:34
  We're starting from square one.
• 1:07:39
  But I just, I just feel like it just comes back to a knowing and I do love my time that
• 1:07:48
  I spend in Japan and I do believe that I will be able to bridge the two countries at one
• 1:07:52
  point.
• 1:07:53
  Is that the ideal you spend part of the year here?
• 1:07:56
  Yes.
• 1:07:57
  Okay.
• 1:07:58
  Yes.
• 1:07:59
  The ideal.
• 1:08:00
  Yeah.
• 1:08:01
  I think the personality that I have is I can't really stay in one place for too long.
• 1:08:06
  Okay.
• 1:08:07
  So I'm quick to pack my bags and move.
• 1:08:09
  And so yeah, I guess I'm just open to the process and just, you know, focusing on what's
• 1:08:15
  right in front of me and, you know, trying to take steps that are moving me towards my
• 1:08:20
  goals and what I believe is the best way forward to, you know, grow, grow both in Cambodia
• 1:08:26
  as well as sometimes in Japan.
• 1:08:28
  And what is the dream in terms of the Cambodian based growth?
• 1:08:32
  I never thought that I would be doing what I'm doing in Cambodia of working in media.
• 1:08:37
  So you know, I had that initial thought on my first trip, but then I, you know, I was
• 1:08:41
  like, ah, that's a, you know, that's a pipe dream.
• 1:08:43
  Sure.
• 1:08:44
  I'm going to go through education and Geo is more of this type of work.
• 1:08:48
  And then when those doors just start closing and then the page opened up, I was like, okay,
• 1:08:52
  plot twist.
• 1:08:53
  We're going through that avenue.
• 1:08:54
  Okay.
• 1:08:55
  Sure.
• 1:08:56
  Let's do it.
• 1:08:58
  And so, um, so now, you know, I think my dream would really to see the industry here in
• 1:09:06
  arts and entertainment to really become more established, to have more systems in place.
• 1:09:11
  Okay.
• 1:09:12
  It's still very young.
• 1:09:13
  It's still very new and it's slowly taking shape.
• 1:09:18
  And so I would love to just, you know, partner alongside people who are already doing it here,
• 1:09:23
  kind of, you know, bring, you know, create a network or kind of a foundation where we can,
• 1:09:28
  you know, support one another in growing the industry here.
• 1:09:32
  Um, when you say you work in the industry here in media, what does that look like?
• 1:09:37
  A lot of it, a lot of it is modeling.
• 1:09:40
  Okay.
• 1:09:41
  There's a lot of, um, there's a lot of need for KOLs, which is like an influencer, influencer,
• 1:09:47
  type marketing.
• 1:09:48
  Right.
• 1:09:49
  And, uh, and acting as well, I really want to see that feel, feel to grow more, yeah.
• 1:09:56
  When you came to Cambodia, obviously you had visited before, you had done some volunteering.
• 1:10:00
  Yes.
• 1:10:01
  But were there any particular culture shocks that you had to grapple with?
• 1:10:05
  Yeah, I would say Cambodia actually shares quite a bit.
• 1:10:10
  They actually share quite a bit of cultural values with Japan.
• 1:10:13
  Okay.
• 1:10:14
  So, you know, changing your language, depending on who you're speaking to, um, you know,
• 1:10:19
  respecting those who are older than you, uh, you know, not, sorry, in Japan, you change
• 1:10:25
  your language, depending on who you're speaking to.
• 1:10:27
  Yes.
• 1:10:28
  Really?
• 1:10:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:10:30
  When you say change your language, I didn't know this.
• 1:10:32
  Excuse my ignorance.
• 1:10:33
  When you say change your language, what does that mean?
• 1:10:37
  It's kind of like, uh, in Spanish or in French.
• 1:10:41
  Yes.
• 1:10:42
  Okay.
• 1:10:43
  Yes.
• 1:10:44
  So we would, for us, we would just change the ending or we would change, change the conjugation
• 1:10:47
  a little bit more respect.
• 1:10:48
  Exactly.
• 1:10:49
  Okay.
• 1:10:50
  Exactly.
• 1:10:51
  And they do the same thing here and come on.
• 1:10:52
  They do.
• 1:10:53
  Not as much.
• 1:10:54
  Okay.
• 1:10:55
  But just your tone.
• 1:10:56
  Right.
• 1:10:57
  Or, yeah, just certain, you know, just your overall tone, I guess, and certain, certain words.
• 1:11:00
  Right.
• 1:11:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:11:02
  That's really interesting.
• 1:11:03
  Yeah.
• 1:11:04
  For someone who has never been to Cambodia, never been to Benopin, how do you sell it to them
• 1:11:09
  so that they should open their minds to being the idea that they could explore the city?
• 1:11:15
  I'm mostly talking to people from Japan, right?
• 1:11:18
  Because, you know, I'm going home and they're like, oh, where have you been?
• 1:11:21
  Where have you been up to?
• 1:11:22
  I say, I've been in Cambodia and they're like, Cambodia, what's there?
• 1:11:25
  And, uh, I think Japan and Cambodia actually share quite a long history with each other.
• 1:11:30
  And a lot of Japanese people, they're so interested.
• 1:11:33
  And when they come, they feel, they feel a connection.
• 1:11:37
  Um, so that's, that's really interesting to see.
• 1:11:40
  Um, I would just say it's, it's a place with, I mean, for one, there's a lot of untapped potential.
• 1:11:48
  But I would say there's also just so many gems.
• 1:11:51
  I would, I just feel like this country itself is a gem that a lot of the world has overlooked or just hasn't seen yet.
• 1:11:58
  And, you know, of course, at first glance, sometimes it's hard to see it or to find it.
• 1:12:03
  But at the more time I spend here, I'm kind of able to familiarize myself with it.
• 1:12:08
  And, uh, and so I love, you know, I love when my friends visit me and I love to take them to all the, the cool spots and just show them as well, the friendliness and the warmth of the city as well.
• 1:12:18
  Yeah.
• 1:12:20
  How are you different having lived in Cambodia?
• 1:12:23
  Ooh, I like that question.
• 1:12:28
  All right. So, so Japan and Cambodia, as I mentioned, share, they have a lot of similarities.
• 1:12:32
  It could be partially because of their Buddhist roots.
• 1:12:35
  Sure.
• 1:12:36
  Um, and, um, but one difference that I have found is in Japan, we often tend to hide our true emotions.
• 1:12:44
  So we have words for, uh, tatemai is what we show publicly.
• 1:12:49
  And Honez, you know, our true, like our real, like raw selves.
• 1:12:54
  It's very separated.
• 1:12:56
  We're very professional at separating the two for better or for worse.
• 1:13:00
  And I feel that here, generally, not everybody, but generally people are a little bit more themselves.
• 1:13:06
  Okay.
• 1:13:07
  They don't necessarily have that separation.
• 1:13:09
  And so I find that in learning the language, I really have seen that a lot.
• 1:13:13
  It's, uh, just the way that people express themselves or joke.
• 1:13:17
  It feels like it's just from the heart.
• 1:13:20
  And I think that's something that I struggled with growing up was speaking from my heart,
• 1:13:24
  speaking my, my whole net, um, because I was so trained to be polite or don't be too different.
• 1:13:32
  You know, don't stand out too much.
• 1:13:34
  You already look different, different enough.
• 1:13:36
  So be Japanese, you know, be on your best behavior, um, which I'm grateful for.
• 1:13:42
  Also, I think I've found a freedom in just kind of exploring Meg without all of that expectation.
• 1:13:50
  And I, I, yeah, I really, I like myself.
• 1:13:55
  I like myself when I'm here.
• 1:13:57
  Yeah.
• 1:13:58
  Learning the language before you came.
• 1:14:00
  How did that change your experience moving?
• 1:14:03
  Were you more, better received, more accepted, that you could speak to me?
• 1:14:08
  I mean, in the beginning, I had studied for one year.
• 1:14:11
  So my, come, I was very much in its beginning stages.
• 1:14:14
  Sure.
• 1:14:15
  Now I feel like it's a lot easier.
• 1:14:17
  Now I'm more, more fluent.
• 1:14:19
  I feel more comfortable.
• 1:14:21
  Um, but in the beginning, it was still a challenge.
• 1:14:26
  Right.
• 1:14:27
  Um, is it like I did a level French?
• 1:14:29
  Okay.
• 1:14:30
  And I remember learning about global warming, right?
• 1:14:33
  Like I remember specifically doing a whole semester on global warming.
• 1:14:37
  And the ozone layer, like all of these words that in English, how often do you speak about global warming in English?
• 1:14:43
  Yeah.
• 1:14:44
  This is what you're spending so much time studying.
• 1:14:46
  So then I get to France.
• 1:14:47
  And although I got an A in my A levels, I could not speak.
• 1:14:51
  Right?
• 1:14:52
  I could say Jumapelle.
• 1:14:53
  Yeah.
• 1:14:54
  But like I couldn't have a proper conversation because it was all based on the ozone layer,
• 1:14:57
  which you don't need on a day-to-day basis.
• 1:14:59
  When you were learning Kami, was it more practical language that you could easily put into practice?
• 1:15:05
  Or did you feel like it was theoretical?
• 1:15:08
  A lot of it was practical, but it was in the very formal language.
• 1:15:13
  Okay.
• 1:15:14
  So that's one gap I did feel when I came here was I was creating all these very nicely formed sentences.
• 1:15:21
  And they just kind of looked at me like blank.
• 1:15:24
  Sure.
• 1:15:25
  It was very academic.
• 1:15:26
  It was very academic.
• 1:15:27
  And I quickly found out that people do not talk like that.
• 1:15:31
  And they're a lot more casual and you know throwing in so many jokes and this and that.
• 1:15:36
  And now I feel like I'm finally I'm kind of at you know just stepping over the line of where I'm able to joke as well.
• 1:15:42
  Yes.
• 1:15:43
  Where I'm so how which I'm so happy about.
• 1:15:45
  I'm like finally.
• 1:15:47
  But until then it did take some time to just kind of break down just the formal you know grammar or sentence structures into something that's you know very abbreviated like how people speak.
• 1:15:59
  Day to day.
• 1:16:00
  Yes.
• 1:16:01
  A quick question about faith.
• 1:16:03
  Yes.
• 1:16:04
  Right.
• 1:16:05
  I appreciate that you have had these signs.
• 1:16:08
  You have been led.
• 1:16:09
  I think it's fair to say.
• 1:16:10
  Yeah.
• 1:16:11
  By your faith.
• 1:16:12
  And I just wondered.
• 1:16:13
  Do you think that having that as like the backbone.
• 1:16:17
  Yeah.
• 1:16:18
  Of your your path and your plan has really given you the confidence to pursue this life abroad.
• 1:16:25
  Oh definitely definitely and I think.
• 1:16:30
  I think often people have misconceptions that.
• 1:16:35
  If you have God in your corner things are going to go well.
• 1:16:40
  It's not always like that what I've learned is that.
• 1:16:44
  I think more than anything you know one of the names of God in in scriptures is a manual God with us.
• 1:16:51
  And it's not God solving every problem of your life.
• 1:16:56
  And so I think you know along with the pageant not going as I had.
• 1:17:00
  But as well as just kind of you know that's a good point when you didn't win.
• 1:17:05
  Yes.
• 1:17:06
  And you felt that you were getting the spiritual signs.
• 1:17:09
  Yeah.
• 1:17:10
  Did you ever like question.
• 1:17:12
  Oh definitely definitely.
• 1:17:15
  It was a big question mark for me of God why all capital letters right.
• 1:17:19
  Some exclamation mark.
• 1:17:20
  Yeah.
• 1:17:21
  Some smeared makeup mascara running down my face definitely.
• 1:17:24
  But something that one of my spiritual mentors told me just kind of my big sister growing up was.
• 1:17:32
  That so I ended in third place and three is the number of completion.
• 1:17:36
  Okay.
• 1:17:37
  And also on the stage when we lined up the top five I was in the center and when we're called out one by one again I was in the center.
• 1:17:45
  And so just hearing that was just kind of like it just kind of felt like the smile from heaven of like don't worry like you're in the right spot.
• 1:17:53
  Yes.
• 1:17:54
  You're right where you need to be.
• 1:17:55
  Don't think this is this is is not over for you.
• 1:17:58
  And so I definitely feel like my faith has expanded my understanding just because it looks one way doesn't mean that that's the end.
• 1:18:08
  As well as I mean there's been so many times when I felt like it's the end for me and Cambodia.
• 1:18:13
  Yeah.
• 1:18:14
  Just with things not going as I thought things not going as as planned things not being easy.
• 1:18:19
  But I think you know and I think it has really brought me a closeness of all these stories in the old testament scripture of you know they didn't have it easy.
• 1:18:31
  There was so many challenges that what they went through but the ultimate story is it comes back to a manual of God being with us and carrying our burdens with us.
• 1:18:41
  Not necessarily taking taking away our trials.
• 1:18:45
  But having the present.
• 1:18:46
  But having the presence exactly.
• 1:18:48
  Is there anything that we haven't spoke about that you would want to share?
• 1:18:52
  Oh, I'm can I ask you something?
• 1:18:56
  Sure.
• 1:18:58
  I'm curious.
• 1:19:00
  So after your time with the pageant what what did that look like was the path pretty clear for you or was there any time where you're like oh where do I go?
• 1:19:12
  So when I won the franchise for mr maker universe was actually being passed over to somebody else.
• 1:19:18
  So I ended up being like the longest mr maker because it was almost two years because of that transition.
• 1:19:24
  And I went off to university in New York and Americans love a pageant babes they love a pageant.
• 1:19:31
  And although I was going to a very big university and Ivy League University they announced that mr maker universe was of this class because it was seen as a value.
• 1:19:42
  And I also think that being able to include that in like your personal essay your personal statement.
• 1:19:48
  It spoke to them again going back to like how do you differentiate yourself?
• 1:19:53
  Because everyone's trying to get into an Ivy League University what makes you different.
• 1:19:58
  However, I do think that I got a lot more value from the title many many moons after like many moons.
• 1:20:07
  I think that whilst I was mr maker I thought that my life was going to change.
• 1:20:12
  I thought that the organizers were going to have everything planned for me and I just had to show up.
• 1:20:18
  And it wasn't like that I think maybe similar to Japan in the sense that my year was the biggest pageant in the Caribbean still to date.
• 1:20:26
  So normally it's at like a hotel and this year it was at the national stadium.
• 1:20:31
  I want a car that I kept normally you get it for a year and you have to give it back.
• 1:20:36
  I had the most prize money that any mr maker had ever gotten.
• 1:20:39
  Wow.
• 1:20:40
  And so in terms of like things just kind of falling into place because I didn't plan that it was a big deal.
• 1:20:45
  But after the pageant I would turn up to events with my sash because I made friends with the media.
• 1:20:51
  And so if they said they were going to a particular event I would turn up with the sash and I wasn't on the guest list.
• 1:20:56
  But the security presumed you're mr maker babes you must be on the list.
• 1:21:00
  I don't even need to look gone through right and that's how I started like getting visibility.
• 1:21:05
  Wow.
• 1:21:06
  Because then they would take pictures of me at that event and then you finally got invited.
• 1:21:10
  A huge part of why I entered mr maker was to start my own charity and I felt that it would be easier to get people's money with a title.
• 1:21:17
  And that definitely proved itself to be true right.
• 1:21:20
  People were more willing to listen because you had a title.
• 1:21:24
  But I think you know opening my restaurant again it was the story a part of the story.
• 1:21:30
  And I think that I've always gained a lot more from the title way way after.
• 1:21:37
  Wow.
• 1:21:38
  Once mr maker always a mr maker.
• 1:21:40
  Exactly.
• 1:21:42
  It's amazing.
• 1:21:44
  So amazing.
• 1:21:45
  I don't I think that it will always always serve in some ways.
• 1:21:50
  Right.
• 1:21:52
  And there's a lot of things that I would have done differently like looking back.
• 1:21:56
  But ultimately I'm grateful to have had the experience.
• 1:22:00
  Will you be joining a page?
• 1:22:02
  Never.
• 1:22:03
  Maybe me and this kangaroo poach and the stretch marks.
• 1:22:07
  We are staying in our lane.
• 1:22:09
  We are doing what we're supposed to be doing.
• 1:22:11
  And that is no, no, no, no.
• 1:22:13
  I will always be open for my children to continue that legacy.
• 1:22:18
  A part of me would be excited.
• 1:22:21
  Whereas before I had kids if you could told me that I would have wanted them to enter a page and I would have said no babes.
• 1:22:25
  But know that they're here.
• 1:22:27
  I'm like it would be very cute.
• 1:22:29
  I would never like a mr maker wins and her mother has won or an aunt has won.
• 1:22:33
  They always announced it.
• 1:22:35
  It's like how sweet would that be?
• 1:22:37
  That is so sweet.
• 1:22:39
  But I would never enter.
• 1:22:41
  I would never enter.
• 1:22:43
  What?
• 1:22:44
  Never.
• 1:22:45
  Like no.
• 1:22:46
  I'm old, stretched marked.
• 1:22:47
  And no, it's okay.
• 1:22:48
  Let all people have this thing.
• 1:22:50
  I'll be coaching from the sidelines.
• 1:22:52
  You know, being a cheerleader for someone else who is worthy of that.
• 1:22:57
  That's amazing.
• 1:22:58
  Thank you very much for your time.
• 1:22:59
  Thank you.
• 1:23:00
  I have one question.
• 1:23:01
  If your life was a postcard, what would the pick to be?
• 1:23:03
  Ooh.
• 1:23:04
  It would be me.
• 1:23:06
  And I think in the back would be the immediate thought was half of it's the beach where everything started for me.
• 1:23:14
  And the other half would be the independence monument.
• 1:23:16
  It's my favorite spot in Penalvin.
• 1:23:18
  So.
• 1:23:19
  Yeah.
• 1:23:20
  Thank you so much.
• 1:23:21
  Yeah.
• 1:23:22
  Thank you.