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Kamala Up, Lovett Down · Pod Save America

0:00
Speaker 1: Thank you.
0:20
Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
0:22
Speaker 1: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
0:23
Speaker 2: On today's show, Kamala Harris' campaign drives a message on
0:25
Speaker 2: reproductive freedom with a searing new ad in a live-streamed
0:29
Speaker 2: event with Oprah Winfrey. Donald Trump tries to win over
0:32
Speaker 2: swing voters in New York, D.C., and the Fox News audience.
0:36
Speaker 2: And speaking of former reality TV stars, Dan, Tommy, and
0:40
Speaker 2: I hold our own tribal council with a survivor contestant
0:44
Speaker 2: who was voted off early but can still win if
0:47
Speaker 2: Jeff Probst has the courage. Our very own John Lovett.
0:52
Speaker 1: Cannot wait.
0:53
Speaker 2: I cannot wait for this.
0:55
Speaker 1: Let's get through this politics and let's get to Survivor fast.
0:58
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're also going to talk about the Republican
1:01
Speaker 2: nominee for governor in North Carolina has called himself a
1:05
Speaker 2: black Nazi and posted on porn message boards. So we're
1:12
Speaker 2: going to get to that too. It's quite a day here.
1:17
Speaker 2: All right, but first, we have had a polling tsunami
1:21
Speaker 2: in the 24 hours since, Dan, you recorded Wednesday's pod
1:25
Speaker 2: with Adisu, including the post-debate New York Times Siena poll
1:30
Speaker 2: that us sickos have been checking our phones for at
1:32
Speaker 2: 4 a.m. every morning. I won't bore all you non-sickos
1:37
Speaker 2: with every top line and cross tab, but when you
1:40
Speaker 2: take all the high-quality polling and averages together, here's what
1:44
Speaker 2: you get. Kamala Harris has about a three-point lead nationally,
1:48
Speaker 2: a one-point lead in Pennsylvania, a two-point lead in Wisconsin
1:53
Speaker 2: and Michigan, and every other swing state basically tied under
1:59
Speaker 2: a point, either under a point with a Harris lead
2:01
Speaker 2: or a Trump lead. The Times had an especially interesting
2:04
Speaker 2: sort of head-scratching result. They have Trump and Harris tied
2:08
Speaker 2: at 47 nationally, which is a statistically meaningless one-point improvement.
2:14
Speaker 2: from their pre-debate poll, but they also did a separate
2:17
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania poll that has Harris up 50 to 46, which
2:22
Speaker 2: is the exact same result as their last Pennsylvania poll
2:24
Speaker 2: a couple months ago. Altogether, there were eight Pennsylvania polls
2:30
Speaker 2: that dropped this week, most of them in the last
2:32
Speaker 2: 24 hours, many from high-quality pollsters, and most of them
2:38
Speaker 2: did show movement to Harris from their previous polls, but still,
2:43
Speaker 2: one-point race in the most important swing state in the country.
2:48
Speaker 2: So I know you and Adisu talked about the state
2:50
Speaker 2: of the race on Wednesday, but because I am a sicko,
2:53
Speaker 2: I had to talk to you about the pole-pocalypse, the
2:57
Speaker 2: polling tsunami. I'm trying out different.
2:58
Speaker 1: It's not even a pole-pocalypse because the polls are actually
3:00
Speaker 1: kind of good.
3:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
3:02
Speaker 2: It's kind of like snow-pocalypse. Remember that in D.C.? I
3:06
Speaker 2: do remember snow-pocalypse, yes. Anyway, what's your take from Time
3:10
Speaker 2: Sienna and... How can they have the race tied nationally,
3:15
Speaker 2: but Harris ahead in Pennsylvania? Shouldn't it be the other
3:18
Speaker 2: way around?
3:19
Speaker 1: It doesn't make a ton of sense, right? Biden won
3:22
Speaker 1: the popular vote in 2020 by four and a half points.
3:25
Speaker 1: He won Pennsylvania by 1.2 points. So if these two
3:28
Speaker 1: times polls are correct and Kamala Harris is tied nationally
3:31
Speaker 1: with Trump, but not by four points, that's a seven
3:33
Speaker 1: point swing over the course of four years, which seems
3:36
Speaker 1: just impossible to imagine. And it is different than the
3:39
Speaker 1: polling averages, right? Which have Harris, as you mentioned, up three,
3:43
Speaker 1: up one in Pennsylvania. That makes a little more sense.
3:46
Speaker 1: That's sort of consistent with 2020. Now, I will say,
3:49
Speaker 1: and Nate Cohn, to his credit, Nate Cohn, the person
3:53
Speaker 1: in charge of the New York Times Senate polling, wrote
3:55
Speaker 1: a column where he wrestled with this conflicting result. And
3:58
Speaker 1: I think, to his credit, is more willing to address
4:03
Speaker 1: the possible fallibility of the polls they do than any
4:06
Speaker 1: other media pollster. So he's willing to say, like, maybe
4:08
Speaker 1: it's not right. Here's some reasons it might be right.
4:11
Speaker 1: And one of the things within the poll that I
4:13
Speaker 1: think is interesting, which could suggest that maybe the electoral
4:17
Speaker 1: college Republican bias may be shrinking, is in the Pennsylvania poll,
4:24
Speaker 1: Trump has a four-point lead on the economy. Nationally, he
4:27
Speaker 1: has a 13-point lead. And the reason why I think
4:29
Speaker 1: that's interesting is maybe it is noise. Maybe it's just
4:31
Speaker 1: an overly friendly Pennsylvania sample. But it's also true that
4:34
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania has seen more messaging than any state. It's where
4:39
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris campaigns the most. It's where the most money
4:42
Speaker 1: is spent on ads. And so it would make sense
4:44
Speaker 1: that if she is making progress in defining herself, particularly
4:47
Speaker 1: on the economy where they're spending the most money, that
4:49
Speaker 1: you would see those results in Pennsylvania first because in
4:51
Speaker 1: the vast majority of the country, the people are seeing
4:53
Speaker 1: no Kamala Harris communications at all, no Trump communications. They
4:57
Speaker 1: are bystanders to the race. And then the one other
5:00
Speaker 1: point here, and just like I said, it could all
5:02
Speaker 1: be noise. It could be wrong. But Jacob Rubashkin of
5:05
Speaker 1: Inside Elections pointed out that just a decent-sized drop in
5:09
Speaker 1: the Democratic margin in big states like New York and
5:11
Speaker 1: California would shrink the national popular vote margin by at
5:15
Speaker 1: least a point. And there is a separate Siena College
5:17
Speaker 1: poll which shows Harris underperforming Biden's 2020 numbers in New York,
5:22
Speaker 1: although still winning by a lot. So a lot to
5:25
Speaker 1: unpack here, but It seems unlikely, but it is possible.
5:28
Speaker 1: There's a where on which it is true that you
5:30
Speaker 1: could be essentially tied nationally or up a point or
5:33
Speaker 1: down a point because it's all in the margin of
5:34
Speaker 1: error and have a little lead in Pennsylvania.
5:37
Speaker 2: The scenario where Democrats are doing slightly worse in non-swing states,
5:43
Speaker 2: and that's what shrinks the electoral college advantage for Republicans,
5:48
Speaker 2: is similar to what happened in 2022 in the midterms,
5:52
Speaker 2: where all these national polls showed it closer. People still
5:56
Speaker 2: thought maybe a red wave was coming. Some of that
5:58
Speaker 2: was just Republican pollsters putting out garbage polls. But in
6:03
Speaker 2: these swing states where Democrats were running races and pouring
6:07
Speaker 2: all money and time and energy and resources and volunteers into,
6:11
Speaker 2: those Democrats just tended to do better than just Democrats
6:15
Speaker 2: in states where we weren't as focused because they weren't
6:19
Speaker 2: as competitive. And so we did see that in the midterm,
6:23
Speaker 2: so it is possible. I also think I mean, you
6:25
Speaker 2: said it initially, like if the national average is three,
6:29
Speaker 2: if she's up by three, then a poll that comes
6:32
Speaker 2: out with her tied fits with a national average of
6:36
Speaker 2: her being ahead by three, because these are all, it's
6:39
Speaker 2: still margin of error. Even when you do polling averages,
6:42
Speaker 2: it's still margin of error because it's just a larger
6:44
Speaker 2: sample of voters. And so that's not too crazy. And then,
6:49
Speaker 2: you know, a poll that shows her up being four
6:51
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, when the averages show her up one, same thing.
6:54
Speaker 2: It's like it's not crazy, right? Like you just get
6:57
Speaker 2: polls that are going to be, you know, if the
6:59
Speaker 2: average is one, you're going to get some polls that
7:01
Speaker 2: are up four, up five, some polls where she's down
7:04
Speaker 2: three or four. Like that's just the way polling works.
7:07
Speaker 2: So we've now had enough polling, though, that I think
7:09
Speaker 2: we can assess the impact of the debate, right? We're
7:13
Speaker 2: more than a week out from the debate. We've now
7:15
Speaker 2: had just more polls than we've had in one given period,
7:18
Speaker 2: maybe in the whole race. What would you say is
7:20
Speaker 2: the impact of the debate?
7:22
Speaker 1: The impact of the debate is similar to the impact
7:23
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump being convicted of a felony and Donald
7:26
Speaker 1: Trump being shot in the ear, which is about a point.
7:31
Speaker 1: And it's just the other matter that this is a
7:33
Speaker 1: game of inches. And you're just not seeing gigantic movement.
7:38
Speaker 1: And even within the national– if you look at the
7:41
Speaker 1: Times pre-debate poll and the Times post-debate poll, the two
7:44
Speaker 1: numbers that stick out are the number of people who
7:47
Speaker 1: feel like they need to know more about Kamala Harris
7:48
Speaker 1: is virtually unchanged from the previous poll. The number of
7:52
Speaker 1: people who think that she is a risky choice or
7:55
Speaker 1: represents more of the same, another number worth noting, is
7:58
Speaker 1: basically unchanged. I think she did herself good. A lot
8:03
Speaker 1: of the polling shows she's improved her favorability rating in
8:04
Speaker 1: other polling, but it has not been enough to, as
8:07
Speaker 1: of yet, move people who were in the undecided category
8:10
Speaker 1: into her category. That's, I don't think, hugely shocking, but
8:14
Speaker 1: it's just a reminder of what slow grinding work this
8:17
Speaker 1: election is.
8:19
Speaker 2: Maybe this is a rosier take, but I think if
8:22
Speaker 2: you squint at the polling since the debate, it shows
8:28
Speaker 2: slight movement toward her, right? And even digging into that
8:33
Speaker 2: Times poll, it's true that the percentage of people who
8:37
Speaker 2: said they need to know more about her hasn't really changed.
8:40
Speaker 1: It's down two points.
8:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. And when you, they asked a question, did you
8:46
Speaker 2: learn a lot, a little?
8:49
Speaker 4: No.
8:49
Speaker 2: Nothing at all about Kamala Harris and Donald Trump because
8:53
Speaker 2: of the debate. Like the percentage of people who said
8:55
Speaker 2: they learned a lot or some about her that was
8:59
Speaker 2: new was much higher than Donald Trump, which is not surprising. But,
9:02
Speaker 2: and it was also like a, it was like in
9:04
Speaker 2: the 30s, 40s. And that's a pretty, especially for some subgroups, right?
9:09
Speaker 2: And that's a pretty good number, I think. And the
9:13
Speaker 2: fact that she has rising favorability, remember, she has a different,
9:17
Speaker 2: trajectory here, a different task ahead of her than Donald
9:19
Speaker 2: Trump does. Everyone knows who Donald Trump is. And Donald
9:22
Speaker 2: Trump's trying to disqualify Kamala Harris. Everyone knew who Joe
9:26
Speaker 2: Biden was too. With Kamala Harris, we've said she has
9:29
Speaker 2: so much more room to grow. And as you see
9:32
Speaker 2: her favorability creeping up, even as all this money is
9:35
Speaker 2: being spent against her by Donald Trump on ads, especially
9:39
Speaker 2: in a state like Pennsylvania, and her favorability is going
9:41
Speaker 2: up anyway. And I think the debate For the people
9:44
Speaker 2: who watched the debate, and again, the poll shows this too,
9:46
Speaker 2: the Times poll, if you watched the debate, you were
9:48
Speaker 2: much more likely to support Kamala Harris than if you
9:52
Speaker 2: didn't watch the debate or if you had just heard
9:53
Speaker 2: about the debate. And so I think for people who
9:56
Speaker 2: watch that debate they tended to come away with a
9:58
Speaker 2: more favorable impression of her uh they got to know
10:01
Speaker 2: more about what she stands for for a lot of
10:03
Speaker 2: people for a lot of undecided voters not enough still
10:06
Speaker 2: but they they learned some and they were reminded what
10:09
Speaker 2: a jackass donald trump is and so i think that
10:11
Speaker 2: like she did some she did some good work for
10:13
Speaker 2: sure you know what would you say she has left
10:16
Speaker 2: to do like what are her big What's her to-do
10:18
Speaker 2: list for the next six weeks?
10:21
Speaker 1: It's to fill in the rest of the picture on everything,
10:24
Speaker 1: and particularly the economy. That is the one thing that
10:26
Speaker 1: stands out. Even though there were, I think, those very
10:28
Speaker 1: good numbers in Pennsylvania, when you go back and you
10:32
Speaker 1: watch that debate, the economy is an afterthought. It was
10:35
Speaker 1: the first couple of questions. Her answers were good in
10:37
Speaker 1: that question. The message has been seen afterwards showing that
10:40
Speaker 1: those were some of her most popular answers with swing voters.
10:43
Speaker 1: But they're not the things that are being sent around
10:45
Speaker 1: on TikTok and Instagram and getting covered in the media.
10:48
Speaker 1: And so her biggest task was to educate people about
10:52
Speaker 1: her approach to the economy. And she didn't get as
10:54
Speaker 1: much of an opportunity to do that as I think
10:55
Speaker 1: she would like. So that stands out as a huge
10:59
Speaker 1: task for her. And it's just, I think you have
11:01
Speaker 1: it exactly right. People learned a lot about her, but
11:03
Speaker 1: they still want to know more. So she made progress,
11:05
Speaker 1: but she hasn't closed the sale. And so it's to
11:08
Speaker 1: spend the next seven weeks continuing to fill in that
11:11
Speaker 1: picture for this very critical, very small slice of voters
11:15
Speaker 1: that she needs to put her over the top.
11:17
Speaker 2: I think she could use an answer on the economy
11:20
Speaker 2: for whatever interviews she does that is a little tighter,
11:24
Speaker 2: a little more focused, and a little broader in who
11:28
Speaker 2: her plans will help. I think that, and I think
11:31
Speaker 2: this was the right thing to do, but during the
11:33
Speaker 2: debate and maybe in the couple interviews she's done since then,
11:36
Speaker 2: there's a lot of talk about her values. She's a
11:40
Speaker 2: middle-class kid, She cares about the middle class. And, you know,
11:43
Speaker 2: that's great. That's probably what every consultant told her to do,
11:48
Speaker 2: as they should. And especially with someone who's not as
11:51
Speaker 2: defined as her, you want to ground your plans in
11:53
Speaker 2: your values. So I totally think that's right. But then
11:56
Speaker 2: she sort of, it's like a lot of words to
11:58
Speaker 2: get to. She gets to the housing stuff at some point.
12:02
Speaker 2: She then gets to the child care tax credit. But
12:06
Speaker 2: listening to focus groups since the debate... Sarah Longwell's focus groups,
12:11
Speaker 2: reading some of the New York times focus groups of
12:13
Speaker 2: undecided voters. What you get from some people is it
12:16
Speaker 2: was nice to hear that stuff. I don't necessarily know
12:19
Speaker 2: that it was going to apply to me. Like, how
12:22
Speaker 2: am I going to be helped under a Harris presidency?
12:24
Speaker 2: What's she going to do for me? And also, you know,
12:27
Speaker 2: she didn't give a straight answer on the economy and
12:29
Speaker 2: it took her too long. And I couldn't quite get
12:31
Speaker 2: what she was saying. So I think like, I mean,
12:33
Speaker 2: she's got a tax cut, a middle-class tax cut. That's
12:35
Speaker 2: going to, uh, go to a hundred million Americans, right?
12:38
Speaker 2: Like I would go right to that. And then with
12:40
Speaker 2: every policy that she has proposal, I would have a
12:44
Speaker 2: contrast with Donald Trump, right? So like, what do you
12:47
Speaker 2: want to do in the economy? Well, you know, Donald
12:48
Speaker 2: Trump wants to give a tax cut to billionaires. I
12:50
Speaker 2: want to give a tax cut to a hundred million
12:52
Speaker 2: middle-class Americans, right? I want to make sure I want
12:55
Speaker 2: to lower the cost of healthcare even more. I want
12:56
Speaker 2: to lower the cost of drugs even more. Here's how
12:58
Speaker 2: I do that, right? Like I think whatever the list is,
13:00
Speaker 2: just pick like five things and have that be your
13:02
Speaker 2: thing that you say everywhere and all your surrogates say,
13:05
Speaker 2: and it's in ads and everything.
13:06
Speaker 1: I Yeah, I think that she needs a five. I
13:07
Speaker 1: don't want to say a five-point plan, like you don't
13:09
Speaker 1: have to put it on a card or anything, but
13:10
Speaker 1: it is, I'm going to lower prices for you by
13:13
Speaker 1: stopping price gouging. I'm going to lower housing costs by
13:16
Speaker 1: capping rent costs and making sure we build more homes.
13:20
Speaker 1: I'm going to lower the cost of healthcare while Donald
13:23
Speaker 1: Trump's going to repeal the Affordable Care Act. And I'm
13:25
Speaker 1: going to give the largest middle-class tax cut in history,
13:28
Speaker 1: or whatever the right way to say it, the fact-check
13:30
Speaker 1: appropriate way of saying that is, paid for by asking
13:33
Speaker 1: the wealthy and corporations to pay a little bit more.
13:35
Speaker 5: Boom.
13:37
Speaker 2: I'm glad you mentioned the price gouging because I know
13:40
Speaker 2: all the fucking nerds out there, the policy nerds are
13:43
Speaker 2: a little so-so on the price gouging proposals. It's like,
13:47
Speaker 2: you know what? Kamala Harris, she has a record on this.
13:50
Speaker 2: When she was attorney general, went after the big banks
13:53
Speaker 2: on behalf of homeowners, succeeded. Went after for-profit colleges screwing
13:57
Speaker 2: over students, succeeded. She can go after, she can talk
14:01
Speaker 2: about her record and then talk about how she's going
14:03
Speaker 2: to go after companies that are just gouging consumers and
14:08
Speaker 2: jacking up prices for no good reason. And I think
14:11
Speaker 2: it's an extremely popular proposal. It's just something that she's
14:13
Speaker 2: going to feel comfortable saying because she has a record
14:16
Speaker 2: on it. And it suddenly just sort of fell out
14:17
Speaker 2: of her answers after the convention, and I'm not sure why.
14:23
Speaker 1: I'm glad you have reignited one of the great rivalries
14:26
Speaker 1: in American life, policy nerds versus polling nerds.
14:28
Speaker 2: So it's like... Or, you know, people who want to
14:31
Speaker 2: win elections. I don't know. People who are pissed about
14:34
Speaker 2: rising prices and would like someone to go after corporations
14:37
Speaker 2: and hold them accountable. I don't know. Anyway.
14:39
Speaker 6: All right.
14:40
Speaker 2: Let's talk about what the two campaigns are doing to
14:41
Speaker 2: win over the potential swing state voters who are still
14:44
Speaker 2: undecided with six weeks to go. Donald Trump is busy
14:47
Speaker 2: storming the battlegrounds of New York and D.C. On Wednesday night,
14:52
Speaker 2: Trump held a rally at the Nassau Coliseum on Long
14:55
Speaker 2: Island before heading to Manhattan to appear on Greg Gutfeld's
14:58
Speaker 2: primetime show. a real surgical targeted approach to campaigning with
15:02
Speaker 2: a message to match. Here's some of what he said.
15:06
Speaker 6: Patriotic New Yorkers must get your asses out to vote.
15:11
Speaker 3: Gotta get up, gotta get up.
15:13
Speaker 6: Harry, get up, Harry. Harry, get your fat ass out
15:17
Speaker 6: of the couch. You're gonna vote for Trump today, Harry.
15:21
Speaker 6: But I'd say, baby, who could do it like me?
15:23
Speaker 6: Nobody could do it like me.
15:24
Speaker 1: How great am I?
15:25
Speaker 6: In the next two weeks, I'm going to Springfield and
15:28
Speaker 6: I'm going to Aurora. You may never see me again,
15:31
Speaker 6: but that's OK. Got to do what I got to do.
15:34
Speaker 6: Whatever happened to Trump? Well, he never got out of Springfield.
15:37
Speaker 4: Americans deserve a campaign based on the issues.
15:42
Speaker 6: We try and keep it on the issues.
15:44
Speaker 4: You know, they said I'm the goat in debates because
15:47
Speaker 4: I had a lot of debates and I became president.
15:50
Speaker 4: And the goat means greatest of all time. And they
15:53
Speaker 4: didn't correct her once. And they corrected me everything I
15:57
Speaker 4: said practically. I think nine times or 11 times. And
16:01
Speaker 4: the audience was absolutely, they went crazy. They said, Joe,
16:05
Speaker 4: it's over. You're getting out. And he said, I'm not
16:08
Speaker 4: getting out. You're getting out. And they put her in.
16:11
Speaker 4: And she's somehow a woman. Somehow she's doing better than
16:16
Speaker 4: he did.
16:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:17
Speaker 4: But I can't imagine it can last.
16:22
Speaker 2: What the fuck? Look, he's just trying to have a
16:26
Speaker 2: campaign on the issues. We should note that, of course,
16:30
Speaker 2: there was no audience at the debate.
16:32
Speaker 1: Could you imagine? I hate, I don't love this one
16:34
Speaker 1: about him, but could you just imagine if Joe Biden,
16:38
Speaker 1: there would be 700 news cycles about it. He imagined
16:42
Speaker 1: a debate audience.
16:43
Speaker 2: He imagined a debate audience. We're like, that's fine.
16:45
Speaker 1: He's just one wacky Trump. His fucking brain is melting
16:47
Speaker 1: before our eyes.
16:49
Speaker 2: I think it's more like he lies so much easily, right?
16:55
Speaker 2: And like all, the only thing that's going on in
16:57
Speaker 2: his brain is like, how can I talk about how
17:00
Speaker 2: wonderful I am? How great I am? How many people
17:02
Speaker 2: love me, right? People love me everywhere. There's audiences everywhere
17:04
Speaker 2: I go. There's crowds, they're screaming. People are coming up
17:06
Speaker 2: to me, grown men, they're crying.
17:07
Speaker 3: Mr.
17:08
Speaker 2: Trump, you're wonderful. Right? It's sort of that part of
17:11
Speaker 2: his brain that's just like, no matter what he's talking about,
17:14
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what actually happened. He just needs to talk
17:17
Speaker 2: about how the crowds loved him. Whatever he did, the
17:19
Speaker 2: crowds loved him. And then other people who are running
17:22
Speaker 2: against him And don't like him or treating him unfairly.
17:25
Speaker 2: That's it. When you have that in your mind, everything
17:28
Speaker 2: else is pretty easy to talk about.
17:30
Speaker 1: Well, I would just say that 70-year-old Trump could keep
17:33
Speaker 1: all the shameless lies together a little bit better. And
17:36
Speaker 1: at this age, it's just like he can't even figure
17:38
Speaker 1: it out.
17:39
Speaker 2: Also, what was he doing there with the Kamala Harris?
17:42
Speaker 2: A woman.
17:43
Speaker 1: Well, he's legitimately shocked he got his ass kicked in
17:45
Speaker 1: a debate by a woman. He's never going to get
17:47
Speaker 1: over that.
17:49
Speaker 2: I kept listening to that clip because I'm like, is
17:51
Speaker 2: this one of those where liberals are like, oh, look
17:53
Speaker 2: how sexist he was just blatantly and openly and misogynist.
17:56
Speaker 2: But like, no, I don't know what else he was
17:59
Speaker 2: trying to do there. But just say a woman. I
18:01
Speaker 2: don't know how long that can last. What is he
18:05
Speaker 2: doing in New York? I've tried to think about this
18:07
Speaker 2: and figure this out. Like, what was he doing on
18:10
Speaker 2: Long Island?
18:12
Speaker 1: I think he needed, after several tough weeks and the
18:16
Speaker 1: most boring town hall that Trump could ever do with
18:19
Speaker 1: Sarah Huckabee Sanders in Michigan on Tuesday, he needed his people.
18:23
Speaker 1: He needed just a confidence boost from a bunch of
18:26
Speaker 1: Long Islanders screaming his name in cheer. I really think
18:29
Speaker 1: that's what it was. He's in a funk. I think
18:32
Speaker 1: he's in a funk and the campaign is trying to
18:34
Speaker 1: pick him up. I do not believe he's there to
18:36
Speaker 1: win the house. I do not think Donald Trump is
18:38
Speaker 1: spending his time to.
18:38
Speaker 2: Help other people. I know, I saw that somewhere. I'm like,
18:40
Speaker 2: I don't think that makes a lot of sense. I
18:43
Speaker 2: know that he's, part of it is like his message,
18:45
Speaker 2: you know, like liberal blue America is a hell hole
18:49
Speaker 2: and it's crime ridden and immigrant invasion and all that
18:53
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. But like, I don't know, you could
18:55
Speaker 2: do that in a swing state, maybe. You could, I
19:00
Speaker 2: don't know, it's very weird. You and I have talked
19:02
Speaker 2: before about how Trump's strategy is more about disqualifying Harris
19:05
Speaker 2: in the eyes of undecided voters than trying to win
19:07
Speaker 2: over new Trump voters. Do you think he's even making
19:11
Speaker 2: progress on that, on tearing down Harris? Because this poll
19:14
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, her favorability keeps going up, even where they're
19:19
Speaker 2: running millions of dollars of ads, super PAC ads, all
19:22
Speaker 2: these ads are out. He says crazy shit all the time.
19:26
Speaker 2: He's taking up news cycles. He's talking about eating the
19:28
Speaker 2: pets in Springfield. He's doing all this shit. But it
19:32
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be making a dent in her favorability
19:35
Speaker 2: or her poll numbers. I guess it is depriving her
19:38
Speaker 2: of breaking through with her message. But I don't know.
19:39
Speaker 2: What do you think?
19:40
Speaker 1: It seems to be an abject failure on all fronts.
19:43
Speaker 1: We've talked from the moment Kamala Harris got in this race,
19:45
Speaker 1: there was now a race to define her. Who was
19:47
Speaker 1: going to win, Kamala Harris or Trump? Her favorability rating
19:51
Speaker 1: is up a net 15 points since she got in
19:53
Speaker 1: the race. That's an astonishing increase over a short period
19:56
Speaker 1: of time for someone who was not unknown. She was
20:00
Speaker 1: the vice president of the United States at the time.
20:02
Speaker 1: And so it is failing. Now, there's still another segment
20:06
Speaker 1: of voters, like a slice of persuadable voters that they're
20:08
Speaker 1: both fighting over. there's no evidence that he has damaged
20:11
Speaker 1: her with them yet, but there's not evidence that she
20:13
Speaker 1: has fully won them over yet. So in terms of
20:15
Speaker 1: defining her, he has lost that battle, but now we
20:18
Speaker 1: are down to the last group of voters in a
20:19
Speaker 1: small handful of States. Most of those people have honestly
20:22
Speaker 1: not really checked into this election yet. Um, so we
20:24
Speaker 1: haven't even really contested them. So that, you know, that's
20:27
Speaker 1: what we'll sort of see. And that's who these ads
20:29
Speaker 1: that are running, like for instance, the Kamala Harris abortion ad,
20:33
Speaker 1: which ran during survivor, for instance, uh, which we watched
20:37
Speaker 1: last night, obviously. Um, Or, you know, the Trump folks
20:41
Speaker 1: have a new ad about with Kamala Harris talking about
20:43
Speaker 1: Bidenomics that is running all over the swing states like that.
20:47
Speaker 1: They're trying to get to those voters by osmosis. But
20:49
Speaker 1: as a campaign strategy, he has failed to put a
20:52
Speaker 1: debt in her numbers.
20:54
Speaker 6: Yeah.
20:55
Speaker 2: One strategy Trump seems to be flirting with is an
20:56
Speaker 2: old favorite of his trying to shut down the federal government.
20:59
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson's once again having trouble getting all his goofballs
21:02
Speaker 2: in line before the looming deadline of October 1st. And
21:05
Speaker 2: even though Mitch McConnell just said, quote, it would be
21:08
Speaker 2: politically beyond stupid for us to do that right before
21:10
Speaker 2: the election because certainly we'd get the blame, Donald Trump
21:14
Speaker 2: begs to differ. He wrote on Truth Social that Republicans
21:16
Speaker 2: should only vote for a spending package that includes the
21:19
Speaker 2: SAVE Act, which imposes more requirements on states to make
21:22
Speaker 2: sure that non-citizens aren't registering to vote, which of course
21:26
Speaker 2: doesn't really ever happen and is already illegal. It also,
21:29
Speaker 2: by the way, doesn't have the votes to pass Congress. Clearly,
21:33
Speaker 2: Trump and Vance want to be able to say that
21:35
Speaker 2: the government shut down because Democrats refuse to require proof
21:39
Speaker 2: of citizenship to vote. What do you think of that strategy?
21:43
Speaker 1: That is a stupid person's idea of a smart plan.
21:47
Speaker 1: Like it seems good on paper, but it would definitely
21:49
Speaker 1: not play out that way. It's an absurd provision that
21:52
Speaker 1: is unnecessary, makes no sense. They'd be laughed out of town.
21:56
Speaker 1: And we just know from history that the side that
21:59
Speaker 1: initiates the shutdown gets the blame for the shutdown. And
22:02
Speaker 1: that would be the House Republicans who just happen to
22:04
Speaker 1: have 13 seats they are trying to defend that are
22:07
Speaker 1: either toss-up or lean Republican. And so it seems like
22:10
Speaker 1: a terrible idea across the board and would obviously hurt
22:14
Speaker 1: people because when the government shuts down, people are denied
22:17
Speaker 1: needed services and money, et cetera, but pure idiocy from them.
22:22
Speaker 2: Also, you heard Mitch McConnell, and there's a bunch of
22:25
Speaker 2: Senate Republicans that don't– and every House Republican is up,
22:30
Speaker 2: has a campaign. Yeah. And everyone that's in a competitive race,
22:33
Speaker 2: every House Republican, every Senate Republican, they're not going to
22:36
Speaker 2: be too happy with a government shutdown just like five
22:42
Speaker 2: weeks before the election that they're held responsible for because
22:46
Speaker 2: they wanted to pass something that no one really is
22:49
Speaker 2: clamoring for.
22:51
Speaker 1: Something that no one wants or needs? Yeah.
22:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right. So I don't know. I don't know.
22:57
Speaker 2: I would guess that when push comes to shove, Mike Johnson...
23:00
Speaker 2: does what he always does and has to end up
23:02
Speaker 2: like passing something with the help of Democrats and drops
23:04
Speaker 2: the SAVE Act. And that's that. Yeah.
23:07
Speaker 1: They just kick the can down the road after the election.
23:09
Speaker 2: That's what happens. That's what it feels like. But nice
23:11
Speaker 2: to see Trump get involved there. We got some absolutely
23:25
Speaker 2: bonkers news in North Carolina to talk about. Lieutenant Governor
23:28
Speaker 2: Mark Robinson. Currently, the Republican nominee for governor is a
23:32
Speaker 2: well-known whack job who's flirted with Holocaust denial, called LGBTQ
23:37
Speaker 2: people filth and maggots, called Beyonce satanic, and called Michelle
23:41
Speaker 2: Obama a man. He also frequented the video booths of
23:43
Speaker 2: a porn shop five nights a week back in the
23:45
Speaker 2: early 2000s. And yet somehow, Andrew Kaczynski at CNN broke
23:51
Speaker 2: a story about him today that was so bad that
23:54
Speaker 2: it led North Carolina Republicans to try... to get him
23:57
Speaker 2: off the ballot, to get him to drop out last minute.
24:01
Speaker 2: The deadline is Thursday midnight. We're recording this before, you'll
24:05
Speaker 2: listen to this after, so we'll see what happens. So
24:07
Speaker 2: what's the story? Apparently, someone using an online alias that
24:10
Speaker 2: Robinson often used himself with his same birthday and email
24:15
Speaker 2: address was a frequent poster on the message board of
24:18
Speaker 2: a porn site called Nude Africa from 2008 to 2012.
24:22
Speaker 2: Among the highlights. He told the message board that he
24:29
Speaker 2: loves porn featuring trans people. I'm quoting him here. Quote,
24:33
Speaker 2: I like watching tranny on girl porn. That's fucking hot.
24:37
Speaker 2: It takes the man out while leaving the man in.
24:40
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm a perv too. It got more graphic
24:44
Speaker 2: and CNN actually declined to print all of the details
24:48
Speaker 2: because they were too graphic. So what I just said
24:50
Speaker 2: was not the too graphic part. Robinson also talked about
24:54
Speaker 2: being a kid and stumbling into a spot at a
24:56
Speaker 2: local university. where he could spy on women showering through
24:59
Speaker 2: a grate in the wall. Robinson proudly referred to himself
25:03
Speaker 2: as a, quote, black Nazi in another post and, quote, said,
25:07
Speaker 2: slavery is not bad. Some people need to be slaves.
25:11
Speaker 2: I wish they would bring it back. I would certainly
25:13
Speaker 2: buy a few. And he called Martin Luther King Jr., quote,
25:18
Speaker 2: worse than a maggot and, quote, a ho-fucking phony. So
25:21
Speaker 2: this is as good a place as any to remind
25:23
Speaker 2: you all that Donald Trump has endorsed Robinson. and often
25:27
Speaker 2: praises him. Here's a helpful highlight reel that the Harris
25:30
Speaker 2: campaign put together.
25:32
Speaker 6: Mark Robinson, he's out there, he's fighting.
25:35
Speaker 3: A very good man. This is Martin Luther King on steroids.
25:40
Speaker 5: I think you're better than Martin Luther King. I think
25:42
Speaker 5: you are Martin Luther King times two. I think he's
25:46
Speaker 5: going to go down as one of the great leaders
25:49
Speaker 5: in our country. I've been with him a lot. I've
25:51
Speaker 5: gotten to know him and he's outstanding. He's outstanding in presentation,
25:54
Speaker 5: but he's Probably even more outstanding in heart. Somebody that
25:58
Speaker 5: we have to be very, very careful. We have to cherish.
26:01
Speaker 5: We have to cherish Mark.
26:02
Speaker 1: He's a star.
26:03
Speaker 5: You have to cherish him. It's like a fine wine
26:06
Speaker 5: because that's what you have. You have a fine wine.
26:08
Speaker 5: He's an outstanding person. I've gotten to know him so
26:11
Speaker 5: well and fairly quickly.
26:16
Speaker 2: He's a fine wine. Martin Luther King times two. Fine wine.
26:19
Speaker 2: Got to know him really well. Before we get to Trump,
26:21
Speaker 2: I want to put you on the record here. Do
26:23
Speaker 2: you regret your posts on New Delaware?
26:27
Speaker 1: Do not besmirch the state of Delaware like that.
26:29
Speaker 2: Okay? We've done enough to tell her this.
26:33
Speaker 4: Yeah.
26:33
Speaker 1: Back off my home state. A place I'd love to
26:35
Speaker 1: return to one day.
26:37
Speaker 2: Robinson was already down in the polls to Josh Stein,
26:39
Speaker 2: the Democrat running for governor. I'd imagine he'll fall even
26:43
Speaker 2: further behind now unless he.
26:44
Speaker 1: Because he caught himself a Nazi on a porn site?
26:48
Speaker 2: Black Nazi? Because he said he wants to bring back
26:50
Speaker 2: slavery and he'd buy.
26:51
Speaker 3: A- On a porn site. That's the thing.
26:52
Speaker 1: These aren't things he posted on Facebook. These are things
26:54
Speaker 1: he posted on a porn site message board. I'm going
26:55
Speaker 1: to king shame him, you know?
26:57
Speaker 2: So, first of all, I guess by the time, again,
26:59
Speaker 2: by the time you all listen to this, we'll know
27:00
Speaker 2: what happened. It doesn't seem like the Republicans who want
27:03
Speaker 2: him out of the race are going to succeed at
27:05
Speaker 2: pushing him out of the race. He and his campaign
27:07
Speaker 2: have said they're not going anywhere. He said, you know,
27:10
Speaker 2: you can do strange things with the Internet now. He
27:13
Speaker 2: just thinks they're just denying it. They're saying that it
27:15
Speaker 2: was made up. Donald Trump's campaign apparently told NBC News, well,
27:19
Speaker 2: we're not trying to push him out, which is amazing
27:21
Speaker 2: to say.
27:22
Speaker 4: So.
27:23
Speaker 2: It seems like he's staying in unless something dramatically changes
27:26
Speaker 2: in the next, I don't know, couple hours.
27:28
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't force him out. He has to
27:32
Speaker 1: decide to stay in the race. I am not fully
27:35
Speaker 1: convinced that at least some people around Trump are not
27:37
Speaker 1: trying to get him out because North Carolina is polling
27:41
Speaker 1: better than Georgia, which doesn't make a ton of sense demographically.
27:45
Speaker 1: One of the main reasons that's the case is Mark
27:47
Speaker 1: Robinson's on the ballot. So if you get Mark Robinson
27:50
Speaker 1: off the ballot... So theoretically, North Carolina becomes a little
27:53
Speaker 1: bit easier for Trump. And so I don't know. It'll
27:57
Speaker 1: be interesting to see what happens here. And if he
28:01
Speaker 1: stays in the race, he is a zombie candidate, right?
28:05
Speaker 1: All the money dries up. People stop campaigning for him.
28:07
Speaker 1: He won't be seen with people. It'll be very interesting
28:09
Speaker 1: to see what happens when Trump comes to the state.
28:11
Speaker 1: Will he be with Mark Robinson or not?
28:14
Speaker 2: Also, Mark Robinson at the Republican convention was the one
28:17
Speaker 2: in the North Carolina delegation that announced the delegates for Trump.
28:22
Speaker 2: He's just.
28:25
Speaker 2: Here's what I'm trying to figure out. You could imagine
28:27
Speaker 2: a bunch of Trump-Stein voters, right? They vote for the
28:31
Speaker 2: Democrat for governor because for these Republicans, Mark Robinson's a
28:35
Speaker 2: bridge too far. And then they vote for Donald Trump.
28:38
Speaker 2: But if Robinson stays in the race and you're The
28:43
Speaker 2: Harris campaign, like, do you run some ads like the
28:47
Speaker 2: one we just heard or just like the video we
28:49
Speaker 2: just heard or put some ads together with Donald Trump
28:51
Speaker 2: and Mark Robinson together and try to make this hurt
28:56
Speaker 2: Trump a little bit in the state?
28:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you do.
28:58
Speaker 1: I think you tie Trump to Mark Robinson's extremism and
29:01
Speaker 1: make them all extreme. There's a, we just did this
29:03
Speaker 1: in a forthcoming episode of Political Experts React that I
29:06
Speaker 1: did with Chris Hayes where we looked at Josh Stein's
29:08
Speaker 1: first ad about Mark Robinson, just using Mark Robinson's words.
29:11
Speaker 1: So you can put the two of them together and
29:12
Speaker 1: you make it really about MAGA extremism. It's not that
29:16
Speaker 1: he called him one of the King Times two or
29:18
Speaker 1: all of that. It's that they are birds of a
29:21
Speaker 1: feather in terms of the extremism. It's less the porn
29:25
Speaker 1: site and the porn booths and all the other porn.
29:28
Speaker 1: It's more the things he said about like threatening death
29:30
Speaker 1: to people and shooting people and all of the political violence.
29:35
Speaker 2: Black Nazi slavery. Yeah. Go on whatever porn site you
29:38
Speaker 2: want to go on, Mark Robinson. But that's the bridge
29:41
Speaker 2: too far for us.
29:42
Speaker 5: Yes.
29:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Okay. Well, we're going from North Carolina, one
29:46
Speaker 2: swing state to the other swing state of Nebraska, actually
29:50
Speaker 2: just the second congressional district. If you're looking for reasons
29:53
Speaker 2: to worry about the race, here's one. You may know
29:56
Speaker 2: that Harris's most likely path to 270 runs through the
29:59
Speaker 2: second district of Nebraska. It's one of only two states
30:02
Speaker 2: that splits its electoral votes. If Harris wins Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin,
30:08
Speaker 2: loses all the other battlegrounds, but wins the Nebraska second district,
30:12
Speaker 2: she gets exactly 270. But Nebraska Republicans appear to be
30:17
Speaker 2: reviving their efforts to change the state law and make
30:21
Speaker 2: Nebraska winner take all, which would deprive Kamala Harris of
30:25
Speaker 2: that electoral vote. And then if she wins the blue wall,
30:28
Speaker 2: it would be 269-269, and Trump wins an Electoral College
30:33
Speaker 2: tie because Republicans have more state delegations in the House.
30:38
Speaker 2: So Lindsey Graham, of all people, is helping to whip
30:40
Speaker 2: the votes there to make the change. Unclear whether it's
30:43
Speaker 2: going to happen. Also unclear whether Maine, the other state
30:47
Speaker 2: that splits its votes, could respond to deny Trump the
30:51
Speaker 2: one electoral vote he's likely to get in the Maine
30:53
Speaker 2: 2nd Congressional District, though it does seem like they will
30:57
Speaker 2: not have time to do that in Maine because apparently
31:01
Speaker 2: when you pass a law in Maine, it takes 90
31:03
Speaker 2: days to take effect. 90 days from now, whoop, pass
31:07
Speaker 2: the election. So trouble in Maine, and it makes you
31:11
Speaker 2: wonder if the Nebraska Republicans waited this long just to
31:15
Speaker 2: sort of jam Maine and make sure that didn't happen.
31:17
Speaker 2: But what do you think? What's the latest on all this?
31:20
Speaker 2: And how worried are you about this?
31:22
Speaker 1: I'm quite worried about this. As you know, I've been
31:23
Speaker 1: worried about this for a long time. I've just been
31:25
Speaker 1: under the My view has just been this was– particularly
31:28
Speaker 1: when it was Biden-Trump, that this was potentially a game-set
31:31
Speaker 1: match for Trump if they were able to make this change.
31:35
Speaker 1: What the governor has said is he's willing to call
31:38
Speaker 1: a special session meeting. He needs the 33 Republican senators
31:41
Speaker 1: necessary to pass it to be publicly in support of
31:43
Speaker 1: doing it. They do not have the votes yet as
31:45
Speaker 1: far as we can tell. Some of the people who
31:47
Speaker 1: were in the meeting with Graham and the governor say
31:50
Speaker 1: that there was some progress in the meeting. So– We
31:54
Speaker 1: will see. They have to do this quickly, too, because
31:56
Speaker 1: they still have to print ballots, et cetera, in Nebraska.
32:00
Speaker 1: But this is one thing that will keep me up
32:02
Speaker 1: at night until it is fully resolved in a good way.
32:06
Speaker 5: Yeah.
32:06
Speaker 2: So Dave Weigel had reported this at Semaphore that one
32:09
Speaker 2: of the Republicans that they would need is a former Democrat,
32:13
Speaker 2: left the party because he's anti-choice, but wants to run
32:17
Speaker 2: to be mayor of Omaha, which would be pretty hard
32:20
Speaker 2: to do if you piss off everyone who's ever been
32:23
Speaker 2: a Democrat.
32:23
Speaker 6: Yeah.
32:24
Speaker 2: By deciding to do this. So again, they still don't
32:28
Speaker 2: have the votes yet. But yeah, when it comes down
32:30
Speaker 2: to everything depending on pressuring a few Republicans in Nebraska,
32:36
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel great. So Trump and Harris were both
32:40
Speaker 2: hoping this week for an endorsement from the International Brotherhood
32:43
Speaker 2: of Teamsters. The union's president, Sean O'Brien, had appeared at
32:46
Speaker 2: the Republican National Convention and his meeting with Kamala on
32:49
Speaker 2: Monday was described as tense at times. But on Wednesday,
32:52
Speaker 2: the union announced it wouldn't be endorsing either candidate. As
32:55
Speaker 2: part of the announcement, the Teamsters released the results of
32:58
Speaker 2: internal straw polls showing that members favored Trump by more
33:00
Speaker 2: than 20 points. After the announcement, a handful of local
33:04
Speaker 2: Teamsters chapters endorsed Harris, representing a million members altogether, including
33:10
Speaker 2: in some of the key swing states. How big of
33:12
Speaker 2: a deal do you think this is? What do you
33:14
Speaker 2: make of that internal straw poll showing that more Teamsters
33:17
Speaker 2: favored Trump than Harris? Is it a big deal? What
33:20
Speaker 2: do you think?
33:20
Speaker 1: I don't think it's as big a deal as people think.
33:23
Speaker 1: Back in the day, when you would get a labor
33:25
Speaker 1: union endorsement, it would open up a spigot of money
33:27
Speaker 1: and organizing muscle that truly mattered a lot in the
33:30
Speaker 1: battleground states. That's not really the case anymore. The Harris
33:32
Speaker 1: campaign has all the money they need. They have a
33:35
Speaker 1: ton of organizing muscle. The unions are not as powerful
33:37
Speaker 1: and flush with money as they used to be. And
33:40
Speaker 1: having the endorsement of the Michigan and the Western Pennsylvania
33:43
Speaker 1: and these local teams as unions mattered more. It is
33:45
Speaker 1: a little bit of a win for Trump because he
33:46
Speaker 1: can continue to sort of live by this false bullshit
33:49
Speaker 1: story that he is a, you know, the working class
33:52
Speaker 1: populace that he can win over these working class voters
33:55
Speaker 1: in ways that Democrats can't. But I think it's probably
33:58
Speaker 1: there's probably a little more is being made of it
34:00
Speaker 1: necessarily needs to be.
34:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think we'll hear about this story ever again.
34:05
Speaker 2: And to our point earlier about like the voters who
34:08
Speaker 2: haven't decided yet, they barely pay attention to politics. Like,
34:11
Speaker 2: I just don't know that this is going to matter
34:14
Speaker 2: that much either way. It's going to matter on the
34:17
Speaker 2: ground for like resources and people, but like if she
34:19
Speaker 2: has some of these Teamsters in these key swing states,
34:21
Speaker 2: that's very helpful in terms of organization and volunteers on
34:24
Speaker 2: the ground. Speaking of labor strongholds, Kamala is in Michigan
34:28
Speaker 2: where she's about to do a live streamed event with
34:30
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey. That's unfortunately happening a few hours after we
34:32
Speaker 2: record this. The two are set to appear with a
34:34
Speaker 2: small live audience somewhere outside Detroit that the campaign isn't
34:37
Speaker 2: saying where, and it's being hosted in conjunction with a
34:40
Speaker 2: bunch of those affinity groups that have held massive Zoom
34:43
Speaker 2: calls for Harris already. Win with Black Women, White Dudes
34:46
Speaker 2: for Harris, Cat Ladies for Kamala, and others. The New
34:51
Speaker 2: York Times says Governor Gretchen Whitmer will also be there.
34:54
Speaker 2: What's the upside of an event like this? What does
34:56
Speaker 2: it tell us about how the campaign is thinking about
35:00
Speaker 2: using this Oprah endorsement, which we first saw at the convention?
35:04
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting is it says the value that
35:08
Speaker 1: the Harris campaign puts on organizing and person-to-person contact. And
35:12
Speaker 1: so there's a way once you do this where it's
35:13
Speaker 1: like a big rally. in Detroit or Atlanta or something
35:17
Speaker 1: like that. And then there's this version, which is, it's
35:20
Speaker 1: a smaller event, it's live, but you're finding a way
35:21
Speaker 1: to reach out to people who you know will be
35:24
Speaker 1: talking to their friends and family about this election. You've
35:26
Speaker 1: already given money, sign up to volunteer, and you're energizing
35:29
Speaker 1: those people. And General Malley Dillon, who's the campaign chair,
35:32
Speaker 1: our friend David Plouffe, these are organizers at heart. And
35:35
Speaker 1: this is a campaign that's thinking organizer first, field first.
35:38
Speaker 1: And using Oprah for that is pretty smart.
35:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and getting people all excited and giving them sort
35:44
Speaker 2: of marching orders who are going to go like knock
35:46
Speaker 2: on the doors and stuff I think is very useful.
35:49
Speaker 2: One of the guests slated to be at the Michigan
35:51
Speaker 2: event is Hadley Duvall, the incredibly brave Kentucky woman who's
35:54
Speaker 2: currently in a powerful Harris campaign ad telling her story
35:58
Speaker 2: about being raped and impregnated by her stepfather. In the ad,
36:02
Speaker 2: which is set to music by Billie Eilish, Duvall says
36:04
Speaker 2: she was able to have an abortion, but quote, because
36:07
Speaker 2: Donald Trump overturned Roe v. Wade, Girls and women all
36:10
Speaker 2: over the country have lost the right to choose even
36:12
Speaker 2: for rape or incest. Donald Trump did this. He took
36:15
Speaker 2: away our freedom. Harris is also heading to Atlanta on
36:19
Speaker 2: Friday to give a speech about two mothers in Georgia,
36:22
Speaker 2: Amber Thurman and Candy Miller, who died after being denied
36:25
Speaker 2: abortion care after the state passed its six-week ban. Tommy
36:29
Speaker 2: was talking about this on Tuesday's pod. It's this ProPublica
36:32
Speaker 2: story you should read. It's just awful, heartbreaking. Amber Thurman
36:37
Speaker 2: leaves behind a six-year-old boy. It's just really, really sad.
36:41
Speaker 2: Thoughts on this very powerful messaging push around reproductive freedom?
36:48
Speaker 1: It was one of the most powerful and, frankly, best
36:50
Speaker 1: testing messages from the debate was when she took Trump
36:54
Speaker 1: on on abortion and went through his record and what
36:56
Speaker 1: he would do. And the target here is very clear.
37:00
Speaker 1: It's women, particularly working class women. The folks at Blueprint,
37:05
Speaker 1: the center-left research organization, have a poll out of swing
37:09
Speaker 1: state non-college educated women today, which shows that this is
37:13
Speaker 1: a group that is favorable to Kamala Harris. And one
37:15
Speaker 1: of the ways in which you can persuade these voters
37:17
Speaker 1: is on abortion. They oppose Dobbs. They oppose these abortion bans.
37:20
Speaker 1: They trust her on abortion by seven points. And more
37:24
Speaker 1: than 40% of them actually believe that if elected, she
37:27
Speaker 1: would not just try, but pass a law restoring row.
37:31
Speaker 1: And so this is really what you're trying to find.
37:35
Speaker 1: In a close election, there are all these groups you
37:37
Speaker 1: have to get, but one targeted group where she can
37:39
Speaker 1: actually do better than Biden is working class white women.
37:44
Speaker 1: And that's exactly who this is targeted to.
37:45
Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw this in the Times
37:48
Speaker 2: poll too, but there's now a plurality of voters who
37:51
Speaker 2: believe that Donald Trump will pass a national abortion ban.
37:55
Speaker 2: So we had talked before about all the work the
37:57
Speaker 2: Harris campaign, first the Biden campaign, then the Harris campaign
38:00
Speaker 2: needed to do in making voters understand that Donald Trump
38:04
Speaker 2: would actually go forward with this because they didn't necessarily
38:07
Speaker 2: believe that or didn't necessarily hold him responsible for Dobbs.
38:10
Speaker 2: And that has started to change, I think, over the
38:12
Speaker 2: last couple of months. And now the question is, if
38:15
Speaker 2: you're undecided, if you think Trump's better on the economy,
38:18
Speaker 2: but you see ads like this, you hear testimonials like that,
38:21
Speaker 2: you read stories about like those mothers in Georgia. If
38:25
Speaker 2: you do, if you if you see all that, do
38:28
Speaker 2: you think, OK, well, maybe Trump's a little better on
38:30
Speaker 2: the economy or I think he's better in the economy.
38:31
Speaker 2: But this just seems so extreme. So scary. I don't
38:35
Speaker 2: want to live in this country. I don't want my
38:36
Speaker 2: kids to live in this country. I'll vote for Kamala Harris,
38:39
Speaker 2: even though I'm not sure. That seems to be the bet.
38:41
Speaker 2: And you could you could see that moving voters. Absolutely. OK,
38:45
Speaker 2: when we come back from the break, Tommy and Dan
38:48
Speaker 2: and I are going to talk to Lovett about his
38:50
Speaker 2: short but absolutely perfect run on Survivor. I'm so excited.
38:55
Speaker 2: Before we do that, though. A reminder that Pod Save
38:58
Speaker 2: America is back on tour in October with stops in
39:00
Speaker 2: Ann Arbor and Philly. We'll be at Ann Arbor's Michigan
39:03
Speaker 2: Theater on October 5th with Strict Scrutiny's Leah Littman as
39:06
Speaker 2: our co-host. And our guest is going to be the
39:08
Speaker 2: Senate candidate, Alyssa Slotkin. On October 6th, we'll be at
39:11
Speaker 2: the Met Philadelphia with co-host Simone Sanders-Townsend. And we will
39:15
Speaker 2: have Bob Casey. Senator Bob Casey is our guest. Get
39:18
Speaker 2: your tickets at crooked.com slash events now. And dear God,
39:22
Speaker 2: Pennsylvanians and Michiganders, talk to your undecided relatives. Also, if
39:26
Speaker 2: you are following the insane story of the exploding pagers
39:29
Speaker 2: and walkie-talkies that israel allegedly sent to lebanon and what
39:32
Speaker 2: it means for the prospect of a wider conflict between
39:34
Speaker 2: israel and hezbollah you've got to check out this week's
39:37
Speaker 2: pod save the world dan.
39:40
Speaker 1: Wait i've listened to it what are you talking about
39:43
Speaker 1: I'm just bringing back this. Have you listened to it?
39:46
Speaker 2: I have listened to it, yeah. I did listen to
39:47
Speaker 2: it immediately. As soon as I heard about the story.
39:49
Speaker 1: We'll grill love it on the Pager story when he
39:52
Speaker 1: gets here.
39:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure he was listening to it at his
39:53
Speaker 2: fucking hotel in Fiji when he was on vacation. Anyway. Anyway.
39:58
Speaker 2: Tommy and Ben talk about what happens, what it means,
40:00
Speaker 2: and what we know about Kamala Harris' leadership style on
40:02
Speaker 2: national security and foreign policy. Listen to the latest episode
40:05
Speaker 2: of Pod Save the World, available now on Amazon Music
40:08
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back,
40:12
Speaker 2: love it. All right, we're back. And we're doing a
40:27
Speaker 2: segment here. This is going to be our first and
40:29
Speaker 2: last Survivor Recap. We got John Lovett here, former contestant. Also,
40:36
Speaker 2: just so people know, who weren't paying attention.
40:39
Speaker 6: Spoiler.
40:40
Speaker 3: There's a huge Survivor spoiler.
40:43
Speaker 2: John Lovett, contestant on Survivor, season 47. That's right. Last
40:46
Speaker 2: night was the premiere. That's right. Two-hour premiere. First person
40:50
Speaker 2: voted off the island.
40:51
Speaker 3: That's me.
40:51
Speaker 2: That's John Lovett.
40:52
Speaker 7: We should have brought in a votive candle and extinguished it.
40:54
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. First of all, this wouldn't have happened
41:03
Speaker 3: if Jeff Probst had just shown a little bit of courage.
41:05
Speaker 2: That was my joke at the beginning.
41:07
Speaker 3: Of the episode.
41:11
Speaker 2: Well, fuck.
41:13
Speaker 3: Not the most embarrassing thing to happen to me in
41:15
Speaker 3: the media this week. You want just reactions?
41:19
Speaker 2: I'm going to start with a compliment because there's going
41:21
Speaker 2: to be a lot of jokes. You did such a
41:23
Speaker 2: good job. Not revealing at all. You have a great
41:27
Speaker 2: poker face. Genuinely shocking. People were like, you must have known.
41:30
Speaker 2: I thought you won because you were so cocky about it.
41:32
Speaker 4: Me too.
41:32
Speaker 1: I thought the same thing.
41:34
Speaker 2: My guess was that not that you won, because then
41:37
Speaker 2: I think you would have been intolerable.
41:39
Speaker 5: Right.
41:41
Speaker 2: Not that you won, but also you seemed so happy
41:43
Speaker 2: that I'm like, I bet he just did. He feels
41:45
Speaker 2: so good about how he did, which now makes sense
41:47
Speaker 2: because you did win. You did great. Sure. You were
41:51
Speaker 2: not embarrassed.
41:52
Speaker 3: I was not. So that was the thing that was hard. Like,
41:54
Speaker 3: if I had come back and I had felt like
41:57
Speaker 3: what had happened was I blew my chance at Survivor, that, like,
42:00
Speaker 3: I was there and I was in it and I
42:02
Speaker 3: screwed it up, I think I would have been a
42:05
Speaker 3: little bit more reserved about the whole experience.
42:07
Speaker 2: I mean, your taste in friends wasn't great.
42:10
Speaker 5: Sure.
42:11
Speaker 1: But all of that, like.
42:12
Speaker 2: We got some questions about that.
42:13
Speaker 3: No, and we can get into it. But, like, it's
42:16
Speaker 3: also like this is a... this is a two hour
42:18
Speaker 3: representation of 72 hours of, of what happens. And so like,
42:22
Speaker 3: there's a lot that, that like of other, we didn't see,
42:24
Speaker 3: there is a lot you didn't see.
42:25
Speaker 2: You don't even know the real.
42:26
Speaker 3: Story, but no, no, it's a fair edit. It's a
42:28
Speaker 3: fair edit. It's very, I feel very comfortable with the edit,
42:30
Speaker 3: but I don't feel like I like, like having now
42:36
Speaker 3: had the experience of watching an episode of reality TV
42:39
Speaker 3: in which you are on having no idea how they
42:41
Speaker 3: edit you. Holy shit, that's nerve-wracking. I'm a little bit
42:44
Speaker 3: relieved I don't have to... I wish I had gone further,
42:47
Speaker 3: but I feel like if you're going to go out first,
42:50
Speaker 3: this is a pretty reasonable way to do it.
42:53
Speaker 2: I just have two more things to say, and then
42:54
Speaker 2: I want to play a clip here. Number one, Emily
42:58
Speaker 2: and I watched this last night live, and I just
43:00
Speaker 2: want to say it was like an out-of-body experience watching it,
43:03
Speaker 2: and then by the end... Because of the edible. Because
43:06
Speaker 2: of the edible, which I'm glad I took. That was
43:07
Speaker 2: for me, at least. And I was in tears... laughing
43:11
Speaker 2: so hard that i i feel like i missed so
43:15
Speaker 2: many good parts i'm gonna go i'm tonight i'm gonna
43:17
Speaker 2: go home tonight and i'm gonna re-watch especially like the
43:20
Speaker 2: end because two hours is first of all a lot.
43:21
Speaker 7: The funny part was watching you interact with a bunch
43:24
Speaker 7: of uh gen z bozos was my absolute favorite part
43:27
Speaker 7: at what point did the gen zers frighten.
43:29
Speaker 3: You yeah yeah no it was um there it's also
43:34
Speaker 3: like every it's such a uh Yeah, like the realization
43:39
Speaker 3: that like, oh, I'm the oldest person in this group
43:41
Speaker 3: of people.
43:43
Speaker 2: Which you discussed on the show. Yeah, no, that was- Yeah,
43:45
Speaker 2: we think we have a clip of that.
43:46
Speaker 5: Okay.
43:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's play a, before we go any further, let's
43:49
Speaker 2: play a super cut of Love It's Best Moments.
43:52
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not that old.
43:54
Speaker 2: Oh my God, I just was wondering.
43:56
Speaker 3: No, I love Vine. I remember Vine was awesome.
43:57
Speaker 6: It was like 30 when Vine was popular.
43:59
Speaker 1: That's right, I was.
44:00
Speaker 3: Still a young person. Looking at my tribe, I'm realizing
44:03
Speaker 3: I'm not getting to know a group of people. I'm
44:04
Speaker 3: getting to know a group.
44:05
Speaker 7: Of young people.
44:06
Speaker 3: I am 41 years old. Okay, so I'm old now.
44:11
Speaker 3: There's so much back in my day stuff. coming out
44:15
Speaker 3: of my mouth. I'm from Los Angeles.
44:17
Speaker 1: In WeHo?
44:17
Speaker 3: No, I started in WeHo, where all the gays go.
44:21
Speaker 1: I was a speechwriter for a while.
44:24
Speaker 3: And then I.
44:26
Speaker 1: Started a podcast called Pod Save America.
44:28
Speaker 7: I've heard the name.
44:30
Speaker 3: Well, have any of you listened to it? I haven't
44:32
Speaker 3: listened to it. I haven't either.
44:34
Speaker 6: I feel like your podcast is huge, right?
44:38
Speaker 2: You're right.
44:41
Speaker 3: What are you supposed to say do you not feel
44:43
Speaker 3: like your podcast is huge we do we do all
44:46
Speaker 3: right the i fucking lost it we're like.
44:50
Speaker 2: Pod save america has anyone listened and it was like
44:52
Speaker 2: no no mate then one person said maybe maybe like
44:56
Speaker 2: it's like i love tiktok though.
44:57
Speaker 3: I think they did listen to it i think they
44:59
Speaker 3: did i think they did keep in.
45:01
Speaker 2: Mind there was another podcast host this is the best
45:04
Speaker 2: part had a podcast that was about survivor but there's
45:07
Speaker 2: a scene in the in the in the After Lovett gets,
45:10
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe, maybe, someone goes up to this
45:12
Speaker 2: podcaster and is like, I'm a.
45:14
Speaker 3: Huge fan of yours.
45:14
Speaker 2: She's a celebrity. She's a celebrity. She was a.
45:17
Speaker 5: Great.
45:17
Speaker 2: Lovett, not the most famous podcaster.
45:20
Speaker 1: Good for Asia.
45:21
Speaker 3: Good for Asia. I'm glad Asia got her flowers. Just
45:24
Speaker 3: a basic question.
45:25
Speaker 7: Why do you think you lost to the guy who
45:27
Speaker 7: had a physical and emotional meltdown?
45:30
Speaker 3: That's such an important question, Tommy.
45:31
Speaker 2: Thank you. This guy's name is Andy.
45:33
Speaker 1: Andy.
45:34
Speaker 2: Also described Lovett as his best friend.
45:36
Speaker 7: Out Magazine called your bond with him sweet and chaotic.
45:41
Speaker 3: That's a real thing. That's a real thing I saw
45:43
Speaker 3: on the internet today. You know, with friends like these. So,
45:48
Speaker 3: once Andy had his breakdown, I think basically, like, it
45:51
Speaker 3: wasn't really about, like, who was friends or who wasn't friends. Like,
45:54
Speaker 3: Andy had basically kind of imploded in front of 18 people,
45:58
Speaker 3: all of whom now didn't need to worry about him
45:59
Speaker 3: as a threat. And I had been kind of funny
46:02
Speaker 3: and charming in front of everybody. And so I was-
46:04
Speaker 3: Those were in the other scenes? Yeah, in the other scenes.
46:08
Speaker 3: You got a lot of laughs. You got a lot
46:09
Speaker 3: of laughs out of that. Wow.
46:11
Speaker 2: And so- There was famously Andy bitching about how everyone
46:13
Speaker 2: clapped at you opening a coconut.
46:15
Speaker 3: I opened a coconut. And so, open one fucking coconut.
46:20
Speaker 2: Hey, I miss- That's two coconuts you opened this year.
46:25
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, listen, you go to Fiji and miss three
46:27
Speaker 3: dinners and then- But I do think that basically Andy
46:34
Speaker 3: was no longer seen as a threat. I was still
46:36
Speaker 3: seen as a threat. And basically, like, because of the
46:39
Speaker 3: natural way it just broke down, like, there were no
46:42
Speaker 3: real alliances that early, kind of very, like, kind of
46:45
Speaker 3: softly there were, but like, Andy and I had walked
46:47
Speaker 3: off one time. So suddenly we're together. Sam and Sierra
46:50
Speaker 3: had walked off. Now they're together. Rachel and Anika were
46:52
Speaker 3: in the middle. And so once Andy breaks down, it
46:57
Speaker 3: just like put me in a really difficult position. If
46:59
Speaker 3: that hadn't happened, there was a bunch of different ways
47:01
Speaker 3: it could go. One thing you don't see in the
47:03
Speaker 3: episode because it just has to be condensed is I
47:05
Speaker 3: also had talked a lot with Anika, like she and
47:08
Speaker 3: I really did want to work together. And then that
47:11
Speaker 3: was sort of why Andy pitched to me that we
47:14
Speaker 3: turn the vote onto her. It was complicated, but like,
47:17
Speaker 3: There were a lot of different conversations. There's hours of
47:21
Speaker 3: swirling conversation that happens before you go to the vote
47:24
Speaker 3: that they condense into one storyline. I don't think it's
47:27
Speaker 3: an unfaithful storyline that they showed, but it is more
47:29
Speaker 3: complicated than that.
47:31
Speaker 2: Dane, you're a reality TV savant. What was your reaction watching?
47:35
Speaker 1: I would say this is the first two hours of
47:38
Speaker 1: Survivor I've ever watched in my life.
47:40
Speaker 5: Same.
47:40
Speaker 1: It's really an hour and 45 minutes because I started
47:42
Speaker 1: 15 minutes late. I turned my TV on to a
47:44
Speaker 1: mud-covered Lovett trying to do a puzzle. Which is when
47:49
Speaker 1: I started laughing, I didn't stop. I would say a
47:51
Speaker 1: couple things. One, this is something you care about. You
47:55
Speaker 1: obviously care about Survivor a lot. And you did put
47:56
Speaker 1: yourself out there. So I think you get credit for that.
47:59
Speaker 2: That's good.
47:59
Speaker 3: I think it's impressive. This is how you talk about
48:02
Speaker 3: Joe Biden's speeches.
48:03
Speaker 2: That's right.
48:06
Speaker 1: He lasted longer than you did, for the record.
48:09
Speaker 3: That's right. No one's talking about the Secret Service guy's
48:14
Speaker 3: commander didn't bite.
48:15
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
48:17
Speaker 1: Two, you definitely got fucked by Andy.
48:21
Speaker 4: Right.
48:21
Speaker 1: You would have made it past the first episode. I
48:25
Speaker 1: saw someone say in the Discord, which was an amusing
48:28
Speaker 1: conversation to follow along, that you were either going to
48:30
Speaker 1: win or go out on the first episode. I think
48:32
Speaker 1: that is the perfect summary of how this was probably
48:33
Speaker 1: going to go.
48:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, and by the way, that is what I told
48:36
Speaker 3: Jeff when I talked to him for the first time
48:38
Speaker 3: about coming on the show. I said, I will either
48:41
Speaker 3: go to the end of this game or I will
48:42
Speaker 3: go home first. So, hoisted my own baton there.
48:46
Speaker 1: Here's my question for you. And I don't know anything
48:48
Speaker 1: about Survivor. Why were you not on the puzzle team
48:51
Speaker 1: in the last show?
48:52
Speaker 2: So, there is.
48:55
Speaker 2: You're just breast stroking out to the.
48:58
Speaker 7: Yeah, I want to ask why you were doing the
48:59
Speaker 7: breast stroke in the swimming challenge.
49:01
Speaker 3: I should have practiced swimming more. I should have practiced
49:04
Speaker 3: swimming more. But everybody caught me doing the breast stroke.
49:08
Speaker 3: I didn't even realize I was doing the breast stroke.
49:09
Speaker 2: Emily noticed it immediately. That was her first question.
49:12
Speaker 3: I should have maybe jumped in on the second puzzle.
49:15
Speaker 3: But basically, uh the they didn't they didn't show it
49:19
Speaker 3: but like in the first puzzle i like was called
49:22
Speaker 3: i was helping from the side and we had talked
49:25
Speaker 3: about it because you have a moment to strategize before
49:27
Speaker 3: and we had talked about it and was like oh
49:29
Speaker 3: the puzzle pieces are big sam is stronger sam should
49:32
Speaker 3: can lift the pieces love it well john you'll help
49:35
Speaker 3: call from the side and they just don't include everything
49:37
Speaker 3: that happens.
49:37
Speaker 2: The older, more mature brain behind the operation. Yeah.
49:40
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm a delegator.
49:42
Speaker 1: I feel like as a math major, you would have
49:45
Speaker 1: helped them do the puzzle much better because they tried
49:47
Speaker 1: to the puzzle terribly.
49:48
Speaker 3: And therefore you would have shown value.
49:50
Speaker 1: Thanks to your tribe. No, for sure.
49:53
Speaker 2: In addition to the meathead sports reporter guy and.
49:56
Speaker 3: The charm quarterback. But no, I think the actual fuck
50:00
Speaker 3: up on the puzzle, it was, wasn't actually our family
50:03
Speaker 3: to do the puzzle. The completed puzzle was sitting next
50:06
Speaker 3: to us because the red tribe had completed their puzzle.
50:10
Speaker 3: Why are we not using? We were so focused on
50:14
Speaker 3: what was happening in front of us. We didn't stop.
50:16
Speaker 3: It's the first challenge. Everybody is super amped. That's why
50:19
Speaker 3: the boat's all turned over. You're just not fully thinking.
50:22
Speaker 3: You're nervous. You're already tired. It's hot. You've never been
50:26
Speaker 3: in this sort of environment before. And I think if
50:28
Speaker 3: we'd all taken a beat, we would have looked over
50:30
Speaker 3: and been like, wait a second. Why are we not
50:31
Speaker 3: using this? fully completed puzzle to figure out this puzzle.
50:35
Speaker 2: I was amazed at how physically taxing this looked.
50:38
Speaker 7: Like picking up those giant boxes, swimming to a dock,
50:41
Speaker 7: the breaststroke, and then loading those heavy boxes onto a
50:44
Speaker 7: boat that kept capsizing. Meanwhile, you got like a coked
50:47
Speaker 7: up Barry's instructor, Jeff Probst, barking or screaming like.
50:50
Speaker 6: This is Survivor.
50:52
Speaker 3: Like, does this always happen?
50:53
Speaker 2: This is the worst start we've ever had.
50:55
Speaker 3: By the way, what you saw, we were in the
50:58
Speaker 3: water for so long, Lavo the Red Tribe had completed
51:02
Speaker 3: their puzzle for so long before we had even gotten
51:05
Speaker 3: up there. There was a moment where there were two tribes,
51:08
Speaker 3: all of our boxes floating, all of our boats upside down.
51:11
Speaker 3: And I really was like, what happens? We made nothing.
51:14
Speaker 3: Nothing has happened. No one could figure out what to do.
51:16
Speaker 3: And then because everything is all waterlogged, we get the
51:19
Speaker 3: boat up onto the beach. We get the boat up
51:21
Speaker 3: into the tracks. We get the chest back into the boat.
51:26
Speaker 3: We all go to heave the boat down this path.
51:28
Speaker 3: And he barely even showed And it just doesn't move.
51:30
Speaker 3: Like we all push as hard as we can and
51:33
Speaker 3: it doesn't move like a foot or an inch. It
51:35
Speaker 3: just doesn't move at all. And there was this moment
51:37
Speaker 3: like we're just not going to be able to complete
51:38
Speaker 3: this thing. And then eventually we fight and we fight
51:41
Speaker 3: and we get it to the end.
51:42
Speaker 2: God, it looked hard.
51:44
Speaker 3: It was hard.
51:44
Speaker 1: It was hard.
51:45
Speaker 2: It was cool.
51:46
Speaker 7: Are you at all annoyed at CBS that they put
51:49
Speaker 7: you in all the early promo materials and Jeff Probst
51:51
Speaker 7: called you, quote, one of the greatest storytellers that we
51:54
Speaker 7: will ever have, knowing full well the outcome?
51:57
Speaker 4: Yeah.
51:57
Speaker 3: Uh, no, I enjoy being part of a bait and switch,
52:01
Speaker 3: but also like, I like, I think that they were
52:04
Speaker 3: pretty disappointed that I went home this early. Like, I
52:07
Speaker 3: think he really liked you. He liked me.
52:09
Speaker 2: I think he was really, that's a social connection you
52:11
Speaker 2: made for sure.
52:12
Speaker 4: Yeah.
52:12
Speaker 3: There's one, the one guy was out of vote.
52:14
Speaker 5: Powerful.
52:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. One guy out of vote because he doesn't step
52:17
Speaker 3: in there and get, get a false slate of delegates,
52:20
Speaker 3: get a fucking better slate. I don't trust these people.
52:22
Speaker 3: Did you see the counting of the ballots? Something happened.
52:25
Speaker 3: There was a duffel under the table, but the, But
52:27
Speaker 3: I do think they were genuinely disappointed that I didn't
52:30
Speaker 3: go further. And I do take that as a compliment.
52:33
Speaker 7: Speaking of the counting the ballots, did it upset you
52:34
Speaker 7: that everyone spelled your name wrong at the Tribal Council?
52:37
Speaker 2: Not even one. Look, it upset me as a fellow J-O-A.
52:40
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. One of the frowny faces.
52:42
Speaker 3: It's not exactly a sign of confidence if you go
52:44
Speaker 3: around to people and explain how to spell your name
52:46
Speaker 3: before Tribal Council. And by the way, if you're going
52:48
Speaker 3: to write, don't write my fucking name down. You don't
52:50
Speaker 3: go around saying there's no H in John. What kind
52:52
Speaker 3: of signal does that send?
52:55
Speaker 2: What can you tell us about where you went after
52:57
Speaker 2: the vote?
52:58
Speaker 3: So you go to Ponderosa. This is publicly known. It's
53:02
Speaker 3: basically like they take over a hotel and you stay there.
53:06
Speaker 3: There is the pre-jury time and there's the jury time.
53:10
Speaker 3: I was obviously not pre, not jury. And you basically
53:13
Speaker 3: are isolated. You don't have your phone. You don't have anything.
53:17
Speaker 3: And you just sort of basically like kind of have.
53:23
Speaker 2: Be on vacation.
53:24
Speaker 3: Be on vacation.
53:25
Speaker 4: Yeah.
53:25
Speaker 3: While you guys are making the pods day in and
53:27
Speaker 3: day out, working to the bone. Content minds. You're in
53:30
Speaker 3: the minds.
53:31
Speaker 2: So you had like three production days for six weeks
53:34
Speaker 2: of work? Check out. Just wanted to make sure. That
53:38
Speaker 2: was one thing that crossed my mind.
53:39
Speaker 3: Well, no, and I understand why you might be cross
53:43
Speaker 3: about it. And obviously, no one was more disappointed than me.
53:49
Speaker 3: But it's not like I could come back and do
53:50
Speaker 3: the podcast because then everyone would find out that I
53:52
Speaker 3: got out. So there was nothing to be done.
53:54
Speaker 2: No, there wasn't a ton going on here, though. Okay, wait.
53:58
Speaker 2: Can I offer you some spin? Sure.
53:59
Speaker 3: That would be helpful. I've just completed a day of
54:02
Speaker 3: press about it, but yeah, no, what do you got?
54:03
Speaker 3: You go on a show like Survivor because it's a
54:05
Speaker 3: great story, and getting booted out first is a much
54:08
Speaker 3: better story than getting booted out second or third to last.
54:12
Speaker 3: Totally agree.
54:13
Speaker 2: Third to last is pretty cool. Then you have a
54:15
Speaker 2: lot of stories. Actually, second is the worst.
54:18
Speaker 3: Second boot sucks.
54:18
Speaker 2: Because you don't have the.
54:20
Speaker 3: You're not the first boot person, and you're the second. Yes,
54:23
Speaker 3: I would say I am glad... Well, now here's the
54:26
Speaker 3: thing that's interesting is that like, so you go to
54:28
Speaker 3: Ponderosa and then every day or two, a person comes
54:33
Speaker 3: and joins you.
54:34
Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool.
54:34
Speaker 3: And it's really interesting, right? So the first day you're
54:38
Speaker 3: kind of, you're a little bit shocked. You're there by yourself.
54:41
Speaker 2: And then- Hey, Andy.
54:43
Speaker 3: Then you- Good to see you. Then you, well, I'm
54:45
Speaker 3: not going to say who comes there.
54:46
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know.
54:48
Speaker 3: And then you're sitting there and then- you're now kind
54:50
Speaker 3: of gotten over it, not over it, but you're like
54:52
Speaker 3: kind of like past the first bit of like, oh,
54:54
Speaker 3: I just got voted out. And then this shell-shocked person
54:57
Speaker 3: comes down the stairs. You don't know who it is
54:59
Speaker 3: until they arrive.
54:59
Speaker 2: And you're like, this is not my job to expend
55:02
Speaker 2: emotional labor helping you.
55:06
Speaker 3: No, but what's interesting about it is like, you know,
55:09
Speaker 3: everybody who gets voted out, a survivor, myself included, like
55:11
Speaker 3: you start telling a story that like is the best
55:14
Speaker 3: version that you can tell that's believable, that makes you
55:16
Speaker 3: feel better about what happened. You're a part of that
55:18
Speaker 3: right now. But- But in those first few moments when
55:22
Speaker 3: somebody comes off, they're like raw and they just start
55:26
Speaker 3: talking about what they did wrong, what other people done,
55:28
Speaker 3: what they feel bad about, what they regret.
55:30
Speaker 2: And so you get like, you're like one more poopoo platter, please.
55:35
Speaker 3: Um, yeah, listen, Jeff, poopoo platter. I, the other, the,
55:42
Speaker 3: the funny thing too is with each passing day, with
55:44
Speaker 3: each passing day, the people that come are skinnier and
55:47
Speaker 3: skinnier and hungrier and hungrier, but you can't really, you
55:50
Speaker 3: can't really eat that much cause you haven't eaten in days.
55:53
Speaker 3: And so basically you watch somebody just sit in front
55:55
Speaker 3: of a full cheese pizza and just sort of take
55:57
Speaker 3: a bite of it.
55:59
Speaker 2: You going to eat that as you're crying?
56:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no. Yeah, they really fucked you up.
56:05
Speaker 2: I've been here a week now.
56:08
Speaker 1: What did you do all day when you were there?
56:10
Speaker 1: You had no internet.
56:11
Speaker 3: Did you read books? I read books. I read a
56:14
Speaker 3: bunch of books. Basically, I would, yes, I would work out.
56:18
Speaker 3: There was a PlayStation 5. And even though they wouldn't
56:20
Speaker 3: let me log into my PlayStation 5 account because it
56:23
Speaker 3: would connect me to a messaging app, I was able
56:25
Speaker 3: to use. Yes, I was able to. They had a
56:28
Speaker 3: couple of games. And so I played video games for
56:30
Speaker 3: part of the day. I read by the pool for
56:33
Speaker 3: part of the day. Just like ate all the time.
56:36
Speaker 3: It's like being on a cruise. You're just like there's
56:38
Speaker 3: just a constant supply of food.
56:40
Speaker 2: I haven't had a vacation day in a year.
56:41
Speaker 3: And then, okay.
56:44
Speaker 2: All right. You just used it to tweet about Joe Biden.
56:47
Speaker 3: Can we get John?
56:48
Speaker 1: That was your choice, John.
56:50
Speaker 2: I had some coconut stuff in there, too.
56:54
Speaker 3: This guy over here.
56:55
Speaker 2: But so.
56:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're just kind of hanging out all day,
56:58
Speaker 3: and then as people come, people just really want to
56:59
Speaker 3: talk about what happened, and then... So it gets more fun.
57:02
Speaker 3: But anyway, you really get a perspective on the game
57:04
Speaker 3: that you don't normally get from people, how they talk
57:06
Speaker 3: about it once they're in interviews. They're really kind of
57:09
Speaker 3: honest about what went wrong for them, and that was
57:10
Speaker 3: a really cool... It made me want to point it out.
57:14
Speaker 7: Well, I was going to ask, so you said in
57:15
Speaker 7: the exclusive teaser we listened to on Monday for Tuesday's
57:18
Speaker 7: show that Survivor is an election, an experiment in democracy.
57:22
Speaker 7: Is your experiment in democracy over?
57:28
Speaker 2: Listen. Nice job, Oprah.
57:36
Speaker 3: I'm doing a recap pod. I am not ready to
57:38
Speaker 3: give up on democracy just yet. Just like Trump. You
57:42
Speaker 3: win some, you lose some. You don't walk away from democracy, Tommy,
57:44
Speaker 3: just because you lost an election.
57:46
Speaker 2: You storm that.
57:48
Speaker 3: You grab a torch and you start threatening them.
57:54
Speaker 2: Meet me at the Ponderosa. We'll be wild.
57:56
Speaker 3: Is that all we got? In what way was this
58:08
Speaker 3: not worth it?
58:09
Speaker 2: This was awesome. This was so fun. My text to
58:11
Speaker 2: Love It last night was, that was an incredibly enjoyable
58:14
Speaker 2: experience that I shall never forget, and I am so
58:16
Speaker 2: grateful to you for giving it to us. And I
58:20
Speaker 2: genuinely mean every word of that.
58:22
Speaker 3: And I really wish I had gone further, but the
58:24
Speaker 3: fact that I now, like the nervousness before seeing what
58:27
Speaker 3: they decided to use or not use, I am so relieved.
58:31
Speaker 3: If I wasn't going to go far, I'm glad I'm
58:33
Speaker 3: home now.
58:34
Speaker 2: Also, if you did go far, there's so much more
58:37
Speaker 2: footage and so many more things to worry about saying.
58:39
Speaker 3: I fell out of a boat.
58:40
Speaker 2: You fell out of a boat?
58:41
Speaker 3: That could have been in there. You gave us all
58:43
Speaker 3: the gifts.
58:43
Speaker 7: Everyone fell out of the boat. You gave us the gift.
58:46
Speaker 7: It was very enjoyable and it was fun.
58:47
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch it just to root against Andy
58:49
Speaker 1: for the rest of time.
58:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy sucks. A critique of the show itself.
58:52
Speaker 2: I will say I've only watched the first season, so
58:54
Speaker 2: I've missed out on Survivor. You can't just jump into
58:58
Speaker 2: a season. because there's a lot of like rules and
59:01
Speaker 2: things that are happening that you can't have no idea.
59:05
Speaker 1: Fucking digging up boxes with locks.
59:07
Speaker 3: By the way, by the way, that's where, so that,
59:10
Speaker 3: was another thing like when I got back after the
59:12
Speaker 3: immunity challenge I really did think like well my options
59:15
Speaker 3: now are to hustle and try to get the votes
59:17
Speaker 3: off of me and on to somebody else the challenge
59:20
Speaker 3: there though is because there's something called shots in the.
59:23
Speaker 2: Dark you guys know what shots in the dark I
59:24
Speaker 2: googled it today.
59:25
Speaker 3: So a shot in the dark basically everybody starts out
59:27
Speaker 3: with basically a a one in six, you have, it's
59:31
Speaker 3: like a die. It's like a, and you put it
59:34
Speaker 3: into a box and you basically have a one in
59:35
Speaker 3: six chance.
59:36
Speaker 1: It's a dice.
59:36
Speaker 3: It's a roll of the dice. And you have a
59:38
Speaker 3: one in six chance of getting to stay if you
59:40
Speaker 3: play your shot in the dark, but you lose your vote.
59:42
Speaker 3: The reason it exists is basically so that if you're
59:45
Speaker 3: sure you're going home, you can play it. But that
59:48
Speaker 3: means people have to persuade you that they're not voting
59:51
Speaker 3: for you, even if they are. It's a way to
59:52
Speaker 3: get out of situations that would happen in the past
59:54
Speaker 3: where everybody knew it was Rick or And Rick knew
59:58
Speaker 3: it was Rick and there was nothing anybody could do.
59:59
Speaker 3: It sort of made it boring. So to make it
1:00:00
Speaker 3: more interesting that everyone's kind of has to lie. But
1:00:03
Speaker 3: what that means is everyone's telling me it's Andy. I
1:00:05
Speaker 3: can tell that they're not telling me the truth, but
1:00:08
Speaker 3: how do you persuade somebody to vote for someone? They're
1:00:11
Speaker 3: already telling you they're voting for it. Like it's one
1:00:13
Speaker 3: thing if somebody comes up to you and says they're
1:00:14
Speaker 3: voting for Trump, but it's another for them to lie
1:00:16
Speaker 3: to you and say, they're voting for Kamala. You can't
1:00:18
Speaker 3: persuade them because they're telling you, I already agree with you.
1:00:21
Speaker 3: So there was, so it just made it really hard.
1:00:23
Speaker 3: And so I thought about like, should I go chase
1:00:24
Speaker 3: down a beware advantage? But as you all saw, it's
1:00:28
Speaker 3: so many steps. And I didn't know if I'd be
1:00:30
Speaker 3: able to complete the steps in time.
1:00:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one guy was running all over the place.
1:00:33
Speaker 3: He was climbing up a tree.
1:00:35
Speaker 2: Dropping boxes down a cliff. What the fuck was going on?
1:00:37
Speaker 2: He was not subtle. I was so lost. I was
1:00:39
Speaker 2: in my phone when you were not on the TV.
1:00:41
Speaker 2: I was just like, I cannot follow this right now.
1:00:43
Speaker 1: You were texting with every person you know about Elijah.
1:00:45
Speaker 7: Every group chat I've ever started was exploding.
1:00:48
Speaker 2: Good, good. And also, the East Coast people fucking... I
1:00:52
Speaker 2: called Elijah to spoil it for me. Oh, you did? Yeah.
1:00:55
Speaker 2: Tim Miller... Texted us all exclamation points, and I'm like, oh, no.
1:01:00
Speaker 2: And then my high school friends on their text, Jay,
1:01:02
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, shit.
1:01:03
Speaker 3: I watched the East Coast feed so that I could
1:01:06
Speaker 3: at least know what I was in for. Amazing.
1:01:09
Speaker 2: Well, congrats.
1:01:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
1:01:14
Speaker 2: This is content for years.
1:01:16
Speaker 3: Decades. You know, mostly I've been actually, I have appreciated
1:01:21
Speaker 3: the ratio of people angry on my behalf. and mocking me.
1:01:25
Speaker 3: I think it's a good ratio with a very small
1:01:27
Speaker 3: subset of people trying to find a way in which
1:01:29
Speaker 3: I played poorly, but you guys can eat dicks. But
1:01:35
Speaker 3: I appreciate the jokes and I appreciate everybody that was nice.
1:01:40
Speaker 7: Want to see a really nice tweet about you?
1:01:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:01:42
Speaker 7: I still can't believe Survivor has almost exclusively been using
1:01:44
Speaker 7: John Lovett clips for one season only for him to
1:01:45
Speaker 7: get Drew Barrymore'd.
1:01:47
Speaker 5: Hey!
1:01:47
Speaker 7: You were compared to an A-list actor.
1:01:51
Speaker 3: That's cool. And that was a bait and switch of
1:01:53
Speaker 3: that movie.
1:01:53
Speaker 2: That's right. Well, that's our show for today, and we
1:01:56
Speaker 2: will be back in your feeds on Tuesday with a
1:01:58
Speaker 2: new episode and a new co-host, Andy.
1:02:02
Speaker 3: He jotted his joke face for that whole outro. I
1:02:05
Speaker 3: was like, what's the joke going to be?
1:02:08
Speaker 2: Bye, everyone.
1:02:08
Speaker 3: Bye.
1:02:11
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