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The Weight & The Glory TRB #34 Luis "Pops" Pena · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: With your host, Kathy Chestday, Christian-based psychotherapist, the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is dedicated to those who are pondered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and freedom of Jesus.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: With me today in this studio is Lewis Pena.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: He goes by Pops.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: So throughout the show, I might be calling him Pops.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but uh he is recently rededicated his life to the Lord.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: So um I was super excited to be able to hear his testimony.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Again, he's someone that I've gone to church with for quite a long time, five years at least.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is the first time we have ever talked, you know, except for hello and a wave, maybe a handshake at church.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: But um so, you know, if this podcast doesn't bless anybody else, it definitely blesses me because I'm getting to know the stories of people that I've just taken for granted for much too long.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: So um, thank you for coming.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: You're welcome.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for having me.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm really glad you're here.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you're 30 years old.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: And how long ago did you rededicate your life?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'd say three years.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: So for three years you've been on this journey back.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: So um I guess we'll just start in your childhood.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: So tell me what that was like growing up.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Are you the second?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_05: I'm the middle child, yes.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_05: You're the middle child.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: And what was life like as a middle child and a boy at that?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it was great.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_05: It was a challenge.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um, being the only boy, um, surrounded by sisters, and a lot of my family was women.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_05: My aunts, they had cousins, they were all women.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, my younger cousins were boys, so there's an age gap difference.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it was good.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um we were raised at church, so I always had that background on me.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um but yeah, it was good.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_05: I don't never really had any trauma in you know, growing up as a kid.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um I always had good parents that were just always there for me and always led me in the right path.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um but yeah, it was good.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Were you involved?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um were you involved in church as a kid?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Were you involved in Sunday school and the youth department?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so growing up I was involved in Sunday school.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um, they had a kids' club at that time, which I believe where I first got the Holy Ghost, um, was in kids' club.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then growing up, I was in youth service, you know, under which is now our pastor, so it's pretty cool to have your youth pastor now your pastor.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um and in youth I was involved in the praise team as well.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you were okay.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: So you can sing.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I know your mom can sing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: I I I don't know.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: I've never heard of it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_05: I can.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_05: I just I guess we'll find out with the time to come.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Do you like it?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you like to sing?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_05: I growing up, I've always loved music.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I've always seen quietly in my own space, but uh music was always a big thing for me.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: You'd always find me with headphones in my ear.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's um it's a great, you know, same for me too.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh music has always kind of had the words that I didn't have for myself.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, I would find, you know, someone else singing my feelings, and so it was easy to relate to.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, definitely.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So um did you I asked this question because as I've done this this podcast, so many people who have grown up on the pew in church didn't always have a relationship with God, you know.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I I want to ask that question.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Did you feel like you knew the Lord, that you had your relationship with God as a as a kid or a teenager?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um personally now older, I feel that I knew about God, but I didn't know him.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_05: So growing up, I got to know him more, you know, with Bible studies and just being older, I guess my mentalities change.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_05: So I don't think I had a strong relationship with God growing up, but I did know about him.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: But you serve you served him in the way that you knew how.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: The way you know you go to youth group, the way other kids are doing it, and going to church on Sundays.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: But for your own personal experience, did you know there was a difference, or are you just learning it now that you've kind of rededicated your kind of learning now the difference?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I can feel the difference.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: I I was just curious because you know, some may say, yeah, I went to church my whole life.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: I really like it didn't ever register really for some people, and then God comes and delivers them in their older years, and so I was just curious.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, so what is your story?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, tell me tell me what tell me what happened.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I think a lot of it had to do with death in the family.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um sorry if I get teary eyed, it might be quite a bit in this episode.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I lost my grandparents at a young age.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um it played a big role in my life.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_05: Uh grandparents from my dad's side.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, found out my grandpa had cancer.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um at that point, I was I want to say 15, 16.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so it kind of hit hard.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a tough age.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: And kind of in youth, and you know, kind of knowing a little bit about God and it really tested me.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it didn't end up well, obviously.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um did you question God?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: I did, I questioned God why.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um because it was tough.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: You know, he I was raised around him my whole life too, and my grandma.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_05: So I think that kinda pushed me to the point that I was at where I was just done, I guess, in a way.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um because we lost him, and then my grandma was sick, his wife, and that was tough too.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um she had a blood disease, I believe it was, and she would stay with us at times, and I grew real close to her, more close than I was, because um she'd stay at our house, I'd help change out her dressing wounds on her feet and stuff, and you know, she actually was baptized in Jesus' name and had the Holy Ghost.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so it still was tough though.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_05: And she was she came to our church quite some times, and it was just still tough because I lost one, then I lost the other.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I want to say within a year to two year span.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was Wow, very close together.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I felt no time to really grieve.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then after that, it was two years later, I lost my uncle, which was their son.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and that was kind of tough too.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we weren't super close, but it wasn't.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_05: He was always there around all the time, you know.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: So and then there was times where he stayed with um me and my family when I was probably about 16 or so.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_05: So, and we shared a room, so we kind of got close at that time.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then you know, tragic accident happened and he passed away too.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_05: So I I kind of feel that's where I kind of stepped away, kind of just through the towel.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think loss is some I I think it hits everybody different, but um there is a lot of confusion when someone passes away and you're young you're a young kid, you you know the question always gets asked is God why?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, why did this have to happen?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um yeah that was a lot of loss for you.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_05: It was it was probably within a six, seven year span.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um don't quote me on the ages.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not a hundred percent sure on the ages, but I mean it was it was pretty tough.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_05: I found myself in a lot of silence.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel like you ever grieved it or you just kind of shut down?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um now coming back to God, um, it took me a while.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um but I feel I dealt with it now.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_05: It still hits close to home because they're a huge part of my life.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_05: So, but yeah, it took some time, a lot of time actually.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Lewis, when you when you asked God why and and all of that happened, do you remember if you made a conscious choice to like walk away from God, or was it just that you were just hurting so much and you just didn't know how to pray anymore?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_05: I think I don't want to say conscious, but more of a hurt just because I didn't know what to do.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know who to turn to.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, obviously my parents were there and stuff, I could have turned to them, but at a young kid, you're you don't think about those things.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um and I turned to music a lot.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_05: Music that wasn't good for me.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, music has such an influence.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: I always wonder because I you know, I've heard stories where people get angry at God and they blame God and they just that's it, they're done.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: They just wash their hands and walk away, and then that opens the door to so much other things.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I I I also understand just being so hurt and disappointed and just feeling like you don't know what to do with that disappointment.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you just kind of give up, stop praying, stop hoping.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: And that's what a lot of it was just disappointment.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_05: Because you hear all the stories, you hear all the the testimonies, and you sit there and you wonder why, you know.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Testimonies of what God can do, you mean to heal, and then when he doesn't heal, yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think it's tough for everybody.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_05: Because you always have that why in your head.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because when you're a Christian, we read the Bible and we know that God can do anything.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so we expect him to do the impossible or we expect him to heal, you know, and it is such a difficult thing.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've said it many times before on this, but I know that God does answer those questions when the time is right.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: He gives us answers, you know.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I could I could understand how that would lead you down a different road.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: So then where'd you go from there?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so from there, music kind of just drove me away from everybody and everything.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um kind of isolated.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, in a way.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, family was always there, I was always around.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_05: I just was isolated to myself and what I put in my ears.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um Do you think anyone noticed?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that I'm not sure.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure that in a in a sense, you know, you kind of notice when people change.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_05: Attitude changes, demeanor changes.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um thinking in my head, I don't know for sure if anybody ever asked, How are you feeling?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure people did, but at the time, that age, I just would shrug it off.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_05: Because I was just so hurt and disappointed.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because it was just all so much at once.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_05: Even though it wasn't all at once.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: It felt like it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it felt like it.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, some people go their whole childhood and never have a loss, and you know, yeah.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Or go through midlife and never have a loss.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: So for you to lose three in your teens, it's a lot.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it was a lot, yes.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um from there I just um music was a huge influence, like I said, on my life, and I would listen to secular music that just wasn't good for my ears.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it starts putting thoughts in your heads and you start thinking of things.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um like what?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_05: Just you s I never really question life, like having thoughts like that, but I just always would have negative thoughts in my head, just kind of anger, basically, anger and bitterness towards God just because of the loss.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna try to dig a little deeper here with the thoughts because I I'm doing a whole separate research thing on that and and what goes on around the thoughts, but the Bible says as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he, because thoughts create emotion and then emotion creates action.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm very, very curious always at what pe you know, the thoughts that enter people's mind.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: I believe they're the fiery darts of the enemy, especially when they're negative like that.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: But um, could you elaborate uh about the kinds of thoughts that you were having?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I don't really have specific thoughts.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_05: I know the music it plays a big part in your life and what you put in your ears and what your eyes see.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, thoughts that I had was just anger.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: Just it was always angry and bitter.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't really have specific thoughts that I can think of, but I just always remember being anger and holding on to bitterness and just Okay, okay.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm sorry if I won't touch the point on that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, it's okay.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh people, you know, yeah, people don't always often know.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: They just they kind of mostly know what they feel.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, there is a lot of music that's kind of very violent in nature and and kind of promotes all of that aggression.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, so did you ever fight?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Did you ever lash out?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_05: I just just towards family and friends, was just always in that anger and bitter state, basically.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you said you felt like that towards God.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_05: I was just angry, angry, looking for an answer, but I just felt like I couldn't find it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um it did lead me to looking at porn.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know, it took a while to get over that that stump.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, obviously, because it's very addictive, you know, it's and the music didn't help.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, do you think that came through music?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: I think so.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_05: Just the music that I chose to listen to.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_05: I listened to a lot of rap, hip hop.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, they symbolize women drugs and all that stuff.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: So I believe that played a big role in it.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I don't really remember ever being like exposed to it.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I guess other than through music.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so you know it sparks that thought in your head, you know.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_05: You hear all those things in your ear coming in six, eight hours a day because you're listening to that, you know, it's like it becomes a part of you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, what's that?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: What's that?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: What are they talking about?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_05: Definitely.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so you know, it led me down that path.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um it took a while to get over that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I moved out of my house at 18.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's when I met my wife too.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we've been together for a while, only been married for a few years, kind of took a while to get married.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: Did you move out and then move in with her at that time, or did you move out and get your own place?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we moved in together.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um now did you meet her at church?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_05: No, I met her at a job that I had.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_05: Unfortunately, um, so I met her there and then um just progressed from there and we moved in together.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, like I said, we've been together for a long time.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I probably don't know the exact years, but it's about 19 probably, so 10 years together.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_05: I think we've been married two years now.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that's great.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_05: So we've been together for quite some time.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's 12 years basically in my head.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_05: Uh a lot of growth in that.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um like I said, the struggles were there.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so once we moved in together, we were both weren't in church.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um she knew that I came from a church background.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um I kind of struggled with porn still a little bit at the time.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it was kind of stuff that she didn't really know about.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_05: So um years later down the road, you know, things start to come to light, and it's kind of when I started to come back to church.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_05: It just was a point in my life where I just remember asking God, you know, I want to be closer to you, you know.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_05: And I kind of knew at the time that that came with a cost.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I didn't in a way I was relieved that it came out, you know, because it helped tilt our marriage more.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um and you know, having the support of pastor and of family, it really helped out a lot.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um never did I see being myself being able to tell my wife um because who would want to?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_05: You know, um, but the time was right.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I had to come out and say it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, most men probably would shy away from it and they try to hide it as long as you can, which is what I did.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um so it, you know, it brought a lot of hurt to her too.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it helped our relationship grow a lot though.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we started doing Bible studies with Pastor, we started praying more, um, fasting together, you know, just things that help grow us together.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_05: Because so she came to church first before I came to church.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she did?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_05: So she came to church first.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um, she got the Holy Ghost.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_05: I believe she went with my aunt and my mom to a woman's retreat.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Oh.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_05: And she got the Holy Ghost there, and then she came back and got baptized at the church.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and she'd always pray for me, you know, always, you know, hey, you're gonna come back to church, you're gonna go back to church.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um, obviously the kids would go with her.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I just in my head, I was no, you know, I I didn't want to go back, especially going back to the same church that I was in.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_05: I kind of just felt the shame, yeah, you know, and the guilt and everything that came with it.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna pause real quick for if if there's anyone out there watching, um, being filled with the Holy Ghost, we call it Holy Ghost in in um our Pentecostal church, but um a lot of people refer to it as the Holy Spirit.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: The Bible actually says both.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that is the baptism of the Holy Ghost when Jesus comes and fills us on the inside.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so, anyways, that's what you were talking about with Kristen, your wife, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, can I go back to something about the pornography?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: And and if you don't want to go very deep here, we don't have to, but um, you know, I I wonder, like with men, if I if you could speak to what goes on in the thoughts and minds, because you know, pornography affects so so many people, male and female, and um and just the mentalities.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: So were you caught looking at porn, or was it something that the Lord had been convicting you over, and you then just opened up to her about it?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_05: So I felt a conviction, but being in the state I was in, I wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna tell her.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_05: So it kind of came to light.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_05: I don't want to expose names as to who it came to light to and how I found out and stuff like that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_05: But um, you know, they gave me a call, hey, you know, I think it's time you need to tell your wife what's going on.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_05: And in my head, I was like, I didn't answer that call when it came.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_05: It was over a voicemail, hey, can you give me a call back, this and that?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but in my head, you know, and in my heart I felt relief because I knew it was time.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, it's kind of what I was praying for, you know, God, I want to be closer to you.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: And like I said, I know that closeness comes at a cost, so I was this is something that needed to be crossed um to get to that closeness.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um because I desired something more than what I had when I was a teenager.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so how long were you struggling with pornography?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I'd say growing up, probably when I was 16, 15, maybe even younger.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it was just always a constant thing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um that I struggled with as a teenager.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: So this might be too personal.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: If it is, you can tell me.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: But there is a book called Um Out of the Shadows, written by um I forget his name right now, Patrick Carnes, I believe.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it it talks about the progression of pornography being very similar as the progression of alcoholism, meaning that you don't just stop at one point, it continues to progress.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the types of pornography, the frequency of pornography, that whole entire world of sex begins to get really slippery and open up to all new things.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Did you do you did you see yourself being interested in different types, different things in pornography, or or did yours sort of stay stagnant?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um, over time, I'd say, you know, it kind of went different routes.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, anybody that's been in that scenario, they kind of know that there's just stuff out there that comes.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_05: And like you said, the frequency and the algorithms that come, it's just yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_05: And when you're that deep into lust and sin, it just at that point you just clicking on whatever.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: One day we'll do a whole podcast about pornography because I I do think that it is the um acceptable sin, you know, among Christians, because not not that it's acceptable ever, but it it seems to be minimized, I think.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think so.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Quite a bit.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe part of it's just people don't expose themselves as much and come to light with it.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_05: So it's kind of that hidden sin that a lot of people deal with, and nobody ever knows.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: I I think uh I think the vast majority of men deal with it unless or until they've come to this crossroads in their life because it's it's pervasive.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I would I don't know if I can say this absolutely a hundred percent, but I don't think I have ever met a man, both through my clientele base or people that I've known in my personal life who have not had a pornography issue.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it's that pervasive.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I know it's definitely happening in the church.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: And um anyways, but I I think that what did you notice or did you notice any barriers that it that it um put between you and your wife in your marriage?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, I think just a lot of anger that would come from me.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just describe that a little bit more?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, you know, just because you were feeling guilty, because you were feeling just the guilt and just the sin itself just had a hold of me that I just was just in that bitter anger state, plus still was always dealing with the bitterness from the passings of my grandparents and uncle, and a lot of it just mustered up inside and just just held on to for so long and just created that dark space in my heart where I was just kind of like I didn't really care, I guess, in a way.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you feel like you pushed her away because of all of that?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like or kept her at arm's length?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but she's always been there for me, man.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: I mean just countless times.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I'm thankful that she came to church first and she helped me bring me back, you know, because her faith was strong with what I went through.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_05: And for her to stand strongly with me, you know.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of people, I don't think obviously that are not in church, it's difficult for situations like that where people can just leave.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, and I mean in church too, it could probably happen.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but just for her to have that faith in me and know that I could turn it around.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um, really helped out a lot.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, it did you know, it did cause a little arms distance, I would say, I guess.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um but she was always there, always there for me, and I'm grateful, more grateful than I could ever explain to for her to be there for me and to have her as a wife is incredible.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you must have been vulnerable and and open to her throughout.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: I the reason I asked is that um shame and secrets tend to cause people to not allow themselves to be close because they know that they're hiding something.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that prevents a complete level of intimacy that and I don't mean sex intimacy, I mean just closeness intimacy because we know there's a secret there.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I wondered if you had noticed that or not.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I probably did.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_05: I just kind of shrugged it off.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Didn't identify it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um, just because, like I said, I mean, sin takes a hold of your life, and yeah, you don't think right.
• 26:47
  unknown: Right.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_05: You're in a different headspace, you know.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's not really you.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's it and it just had me.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_05: And then like I said, just dealing with all the the passings.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so if I heard you right, I just want to clarify this is what I heard you say.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: So someone calls you on the phone and basically lets you know it's a voicemail.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let you know that, hey, it's time you address this or time you tell your wife.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: Just kind of like time to tell your wife, like because this person they prayed for me a lot too.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, how they found out, I don't know.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: It's totally fine with me.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, there was no bitterness or anger.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_05: It was just like I said, it was a relief.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_05: Like finally the weight lifted off.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: But you said you ignored it.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_05: I did.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't answer because I knew in my heart and in my mind, I kind of knew that's what the call was for.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: It just just the way it was taking place.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_05: It just kind of was like, all right.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you know, you get that nervousness, but like I said, it was like a wait, you know.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know how it was gonna come out, how I was gonna tell her.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and it was just a test of my faith, because even in that time, um we moved in with my parents prior to my youngest being born.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we were there for a year, I lost my job because I was trying to take on another opportunity that didn't happen.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so in that year, it was just it's kind of when it's when it happened, isn't that year?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know, and not having a job for a whole year, I was searching like crazy.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and my faith was really tested.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because had you given your life back to God at this point?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_05: I did.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_05: So this was probably like within that first time, the first year of the three years.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it was tough.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_05: It was real tough.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I had a full-time job and I tried to take on an opportunity that didn't happen, and I was like, why?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like now I thought this opportunity was gonna happen and it didn't.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_05: So here I am.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Here I am, giving my life back to God.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, here I am a whole year without a job.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, unemployment's coming in, but you know, unemployment doesn't pay all the bills, it doesn't help take care of the kids, their needs that they need, you know.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I just remember in that year just being tested every single day, it felt like um, you know, praying to God, and in the time we're searching for a house because our son's gonna be born too, and thankful for my parents to let us stay there and have the spare rooms, you know.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but in that year was tough.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'd apply it everywhere that I can think of, places I never even heard of.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_05: I was applying at places in Fresno, anywhere close by that I knew I could drive to.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it was just shut down after shutdown, and you know, that's when that happened with the phone call and all that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And wow.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_05: So like I said, it was that closeness that I was longing for, but knowing that it was coming with that price.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it did, it came with the price, and it was the price that I was willing to pay to take that step to continue going further.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then I got a phone call from a job that it was a temp service, which in my head, I'm like, I've never applied for a temp service in my life.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, where's this coming from?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: Way out of left field, and they're like, Hey, this this job wants to hire you.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_05: They want to interview this and that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_05: I go down there.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: I think it was one interview, and then I got the call the next day um saying, Hey, you got the job.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it was it was awesome.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I wasn't expecting it.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_05: And it was kind of tough too because I didn't have the money to pay for the tests that I needed for that job.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_05: You know, they require a certain test for you to pay for, and I didn't have the money, and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do because I don't have the money to pay for these tests for this job.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so I reached out to the to the temp service and I asked them, hey, you know, I don't even want to ask this question, but is there any way maybe you could take it out of my future check so that I can get these tests done?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I was like, I'm really grateful for the opportunity.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't realize it was gonna cost this much to take the test.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_05: And she said, you know, let me reach out to my supervisor.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_05: We don't normally do this, um, so I have to reach out to her.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so she reached out to her, she called me back, I believe it was in a day or two, and she's like, Hey, so my supervisor approved, we're gonna cut you your check early in hopes that you're gonna continue your job.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_05: So she they cut me the check, and then I was able to take the test to to get the job, to fully get onto the job, basically.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's great.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: So in your mind, you were obedient to confess and to do what you needed to do, and then the Lord rewarded you with the job.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, because I asked for I feel like I asked for that, I wanted that closeness, and like I said, I knew it was gonna come with a cost, so I just knew after that I had to be obedient.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_05: I have to do what he asks me to do.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_05: Because he did all this for me and brought me so far that why stop now?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I I'm sure you know this.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but for anyone out there who hasn't been where you've been, God never asks us to do something unless he knows that it's going to benefit us.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: He's he's not he's not trying to, you know, get us to prove to him by our works that we're we're gonna live for him.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: He's asking us to trust him.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what he was asking you is trust me with this.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because when you do, there's more you're going to gain if you could just give me this, you know?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that is definitely before we cross that bridge, we don't think that way.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: We just think, oh, this is the price I have to pay.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I I've looked at it now as I've you know lived for God longer, that it feels like a price in the moment because it's so scary and we don't know how we're going to do it.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: But God's really trying to take something from us that doesn't belong, you know, in in the pureness and true trueness of who he calls us to be.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: So probably the gr one of the greatest things you've done, right?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it is, definitely.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh huh.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_05: Because it helped me so much to overcome a lot of bitterness and anger.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um, even coming back to church was tough.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'd walk around with shame and guilt.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_05: I'd wear it on my face, basically.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so it was real tough just because I've been raised around these people, you know?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um Do you feel the shame and guilt was coming from the pornography, the sin?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think so.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Or the or the bitterness.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel like when you so walk me through how your wife got you to come back to church?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh man, it was just it's probably just the constant, hey, you're gonna come to church with me this morning, you're gonna come to church with me this morning.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_05: And there'd be mornings I'd go.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, hey, it's Mother's Day, you're coming to church with me.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_05: So there's there's days I would go and accept and still like, okay, it's Mother's Day.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_05: My parents are there too, my family's there.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I can't remember exactly the service, but I know it was Sister Shay playing the piano, and she was playing until basically I had my breakthrough because I remember being up there praying.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: I just remember she was on the keys the whole time.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember after she got down, she was like, I was waiting for this.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she's anointed for sure.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_05: So I like I said, I can't remember the exact service, but that's when you know I kind of had that breakthrough that this was the time.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and ever since then, that's kind of when it just unfolded from there.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: Did you feel yourself release the the anger and the bitterness?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um, that I don't think went away right away.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I feel like it did take some time just because I was still dealing with you know that anger and bitterness um that I let grow so deep within me that it wasn't just gonna come out by praying.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um I never fasted growing up, so I decided to do the fastes that the church were doing, doing some on my own because I knew it needed to come out of me.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I didn't think just prayer alone would do that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um, although prayer helped me tremendously.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I just felt, you know, that starvation of the flesh that basically held me captive was what needed to be done.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_05: And it helped me.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_05: It helped me a lot.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it it took a while.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_05: I used to be real bitter and angry.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um just, you know, in the time when I wasn't in church and I'd still go around family, it just always had that anger and bitterness in me, and I'm sure they could see it, you know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just was it directed at anything particular?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did you feel like you were just bitter at the church, the people in the church, your parents, or or like was it directive, or did it feel like just that inside you were just I think just inside angry at the world.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_05: Angry at the world.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because I never really felt bitter or angry towards people.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um I just was angry inside.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_05: I just was mad at the world, like you said, it just it creates that in you and just you know, there was probably times where I, you know, probably had hurt relationships just because I wasn't there, you know, mended relationships with friends that I probably had to remend.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_05: And it took some time um because it was my actions, you know, me and my sin is what got me in that place.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_05: So it took some time, but they've healed and you know, reconciled and stuff, and it was just angry at the world.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_05: You know, yeah, I was I was bitter and angry at God at first, and then you know, that kind of went away because I was just out in the world doing my own thing, not going to church.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_05: I wasn't and besides pornography, you know, I wasn't really like into drugs or drinking and alcohol.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_05: I was just out there just as living my life, you know.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: Just mad, I guess, and angry.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: But and I would guess also there was a sense you just didn't care.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_05: In a way, I just whatever's gonna happen, happened type of thing, day by day.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know, I can tell the prayers were there for my family and friends.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because when I wasn't in church, I'd say I probably had about two or three car accidents that it probably could have taken my life.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're kidding.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that I came out unscathed.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_05: Nothing wrong.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um one of 'em was with our children.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um my stepchildren at the time.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um we were dropping my wife off at work and it was foggy, and you know, we got T-boned, and I I remember blacking out for a moment.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but I got up and I was like, the kids are in the car, I had to get them out of the car, you know?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_05: And everybody was fine.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then just growing up as a teenager, um I was driving crazy and ran off into an old warehouse that was there, and they have those little cattle gates that you know hang goes so high off the floor, and going back the next day or a couple days later, I realized that we just barely missed that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and I was in a Mustang lower car, so it could have took the thob off.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: The whole time, yeah.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_05: So just knowing that the prayers are always there.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_05: I always knew, you know, because growing up in church, you know, kind of feel like you know that the prayers are there, you know, because things happen.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, growing now older and being in church now, I see the prayers that are there, that were there all along.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_05: It's just the bitterness and anger that was blinding me, you know.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um did you feel it when it left?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Did I feel did you feel did you feel it when the bitterness and anger left?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: Did you physically feel it?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: Did you know it when it actually left?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_05: I think I knew it.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um and I'm sure my family and friends knew it.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_05: My demeanor changed a lot.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_05: I would never smile, I would never laugh and talk to people.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_05: Just you know, even with people in church that I've grew up around my whole life, I never would.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_05: I just was always quiet.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: And I still kind of am to a sense, just because I don't know.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_05: I just kind of grew into that space, I guess.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_05: But um, I kind of felt when it left because the weight, the heaviness was no longer there.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_05: And now it's just a different heaviness.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_05: You know.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: What's the difference?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: What's the heaviness?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's just God's heaviness and his presence.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it is weighty.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_05: It is, it is, it definitely is.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I feel it in service, and I'm like, man, this is heavy.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and it's awesome.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: That I was gonna say, that's so beautiful.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_05: Because growing up in life, I never thought that I would be in this space that I'm in now.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you're sensitive.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're sensitive.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: I am, I think a little too sensitive.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just kidding.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, um it's just it's a gift, really.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's I promise you.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_05: I think just being through the things I've been through, just having that sensitive now and feeling it's making grateful.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_05: It does, it really does.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's tremendously helped my faith and my wife's faith, especially you know, the year not having a job or house of your own.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_05: It really puts a test on you and a strain on you, you know.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's just when's a house coming?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_05: When's a job coming?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's like I never knew when.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_05: Just trying to trust in God that it was coming and putting that faith to the test.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, what did you learn about him in that?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: Man, sorry, I I used to have a box of Kleenex here.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: I actually, for the audience, I'm gonna just go get the Kleenex really quick.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, I'll be right back.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: I brought it for that reason.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to say it's a beautiful thing to see a man be able to shed tears openly and honestly because I think it requires great strength to be able to do that.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Anyone can be macho and act tough, but um it it takes it takes a lot of strength to just be vulnerable, and I think it's beautiful.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um, the question was what was the question?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm sorry.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't remember.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, but that's what I learned from yes.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: What did you learn um that year you didn't have a job or or a house?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: What did you learn about God during that time?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_05: Man, that year was tough.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um at first I struggled with having faith because the passings.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um and I always wanted to have that faith, you know, the faith that God was gonna take care of it.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um so with the passings was something I really lacked was faith after that.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um not knowing, not being able to trust that God was gonna take care of this.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_05: That He was gonna take care of it.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um I just always remember praying, just man, you know, every prayer I could think of, and just trying to learn to have that faith.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_05: And then, you know, with the situation, you know, about the pornography that came up, and you know, it's like God was telling me, like, this is coming out, but to have faith, you know, and so I felt like that whole year was a test of faith for me.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I learned to grow more faithful in God throughout that year.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um just doing Bible studies.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I would listen to podcasts, just trying to keep them always at the forefront of my mind, just because I've known what you put in your ears really plays an effect on you.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: So you were committed to keep going what no matter what what it looked like, what if he was gonna come through or not?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: You you had determined that I knew that was the final straw for me.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_05: I just you know, like I said, I'm grateful too.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_05: My parents had the house and the space.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, but I knew there's times that they probably wanted us out because for us, you know, as a family of us growing, and my son was about to be born, and he was born and he was raised a year there at their house.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um so you know, it was it was a challenge.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_05: And then not having the job as a man, you know, you lose your job and your family's depending on you.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_05: It's like it just it was a weight too at the sense because I know my children and my family's depending on me.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um but like I said, having my wife in church first really had that foundation again.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_05: Her standing strong in her faith, and just now we always know that God has control of it, you know, regardless of what the situation may be, the outcome.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, how did God show up for you?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so after a year past, you know, like I said, I got the job by a crazy chance.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_05: I'd never heard of the company before in my life.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it is pest control, so I do pest control.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then after that, you know, my parents are like, hey, so now you know we're looking for a house, you know, and they're sending me family, sending me zillow ads, selling me house rentals.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, I need a little bit because I gotta save because it's pretty much spent everything we had, you know, with unemployment and then just bills coming.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_05: So anything saved, the money was gone.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, for a house, you need down payment, you need credit, and that's just a rent.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I didn't have great credit.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_05: I kind of shot it through years back.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_05: So just in that year, um, my son had his first year's birthday there too.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um, this house around the corner down the road from my parents kind of comes up and it's privately owned.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_05: And the previously house we used to have was privately owned as well.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm like, okay, this is a good opportunity.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_05: And it popped up, and they sent it to me, and I reached out to the guy.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I I kind of told him, I was like, hey, I don't have the credit, I just got this job.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_05: And just kind of being in that vulnerable space, just being honest, like, I don't have the credit you want me to have right now.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and he was a private owner and he's he was real understanding, he's a real nice man.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um and he's all you know, I have you guys in my top three.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_05: He's like, but I'm really gunning for you guys.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_05: And it came up, and before you know it, he's like, Hey, so it's yours if you want it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean, we've looked at house after house after house and nothing.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_05: So it's kind of like the job situation, just having that faith that was like, I know it's coming, I know it's coming.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_05: And it's kind of sad in the sense because you know, my children are at that age where they understand, you know, hey, we're we need a house, you know.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like to having to share the rooms together in two bedrooms with five people at the time, it's kind of it's kind of tough.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but like I said, very grateful for my parents to have that open space and you know, accepting us there for a whole year.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I'm sure any parent would do it, but it's just the fact that you kind of feel I kind of felt like I was letting my parents down and my wife and kids.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard on a man when they can't provide.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: But but God was wanting to show you that he would be your provider.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, definitely.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_05: Because that year was just that was the year for me.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_05: If I could say any other year, that was the year for me.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um because you could that that could have been the thing that would have sent you down the road.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, definitely.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: And more anger and more bitterness.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: Had you know, you would have had so many reasons to blame God again for losing your job and not having all of that, you know.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: But praise God that you responded to all of that in the right way.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because I did, and that was one thing too in my mind before I did.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, this can go one of two ways.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it can hit up real bad, or it can come out great.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: So that was you're already and willing to take that risk.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I was just my family was in church.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_05: My family's been in church the whole time I was backslidden.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, my wife came into church and she brought me to church again.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so that was the leaf for me.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_05: And then having kids, it's it's different, you know.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_05: You kind of get in that space where you're like, these kids look up to you.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_05: So that helped me out a lot too.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: To to have something to live for to be a good example.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know, to be honest with you, I don't know that everyone has that desire to be that for their kids.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I I'm glad you do.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, probably the people that I talk to here do, but um I feel like in general, the world is just so selfish overall that they're not stopping to think about what are my kids gonna see when they look up at me?
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um so coming back to church, was it different for you than what you thought it was gonna be in your mind?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: Did people treat you different?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Was it easier than what you thought it would be?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: Were people nicer than you thought they would be?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: Honestly, when I came back, I kind of did feel a little hesitant just because they've known me my whole life.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um it was easy, I would say, um, because they're all so welcoming.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, for me, I did have a little, I wouldn't say like shame or guilt, but I guess I could kind of say that because I still kind of was like, man, I'm the backslider coming back to church, you know.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_05: So you kind of have that in your head still a little bit.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: That people are gonna judge you.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so I walked around with that for a little bit.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna lie, I was still a little shameful.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_05: But did they they didn't, no, they didn't.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_05: It just was in my head that I'm like, man, I was gone.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I was gone for this long and now I'm back, but it's still in your head, you know, like you left.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but I think that's the bridge that a lot of backsliders have to cross coming back, is that they feel like uh, you know, oh, they're gonna judge me when I come and they're gonna be looking at me funny and they're gonna be thinking that well, where have you been or what have you been doing?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: But that's why I'm asking because I I think it it's so different than that when you finally walk in the door.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I I think I struggle with that a little bit to shame.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, when I came back to church, I just like I said, I was in my own headspace about it.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_05: So it did took a little bit of time for me to get comfortable again.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um, just because I was dealing with myself.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's that's such a good that's a good line.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm dealing with myself.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I was just dealing with myself and just praying about things that I was God take the rest of the shame away that's in my head that I know you don't put there, but it's in my head because of the things that I've done that I held on to, you know.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_05: So it was welcoming, it was very welcoming.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it was good to see everybody again, see people that left.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it was different because I came back and pastors, bishop changed.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so it was different.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but like I said, it as having was a youth pastor to a pastor now, it's pretty cool because I can say he's known me my whole life, my bishop has too.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_05: But it's it's incredible.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: I know I think we have the best.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_05: We do, we definitely do.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm prejudiced though.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm biased.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so what what's the last three years been like for you?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, it's been it's been incredible.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um, as you know, we've had revival.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um, just that alone was a big difference for me.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what changed what what happened for you?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_05: I think just being to get deeper.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um growing up, I never did that.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_05: There to be, you know, we'd have revival at youth, and we'd have services we go to as youth, and I never went deeper into God.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um deeper meaning.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_05: I think I just made a prayer with my prayer walk and just studying and just yearning for that, you know, just to be in that space again.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_05: And in the space I've never been in, obviously.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um it was awesome.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, uh sometimes I can't put it into words, but I think to sum it up, it's just it's been life-changing.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_05: Um because now that I'm older, I understand things more that I wish I would have known when I was younger.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_05: And that's not towards anybody, but that's just towards me, myself.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like I wish I would have known all these things.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me too.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_05: But I didn't fully learn growing up, you know.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I try to instill it on my kids a lot now because I see all the things that I missed out on that I didn't understand, you know, and I want to have that welcoming space for them.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_05: So know that, hey, it's okay to come to me if you have a problem.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm not gonna judge you, but come to your dad or your mom, like, hey, let me help you, let me help you do this, you know?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_05: So I think just that, and just, you know, me and my wife still doing Bible studies with pastor.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's been awesome.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because we're doing search for truth, and there's a lot of stuff in there that you don't think about and you do it.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, man, I grew up, I've grown up in church my whole life, you know, prior to the backsliding that I never even knew of.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, so it's been incredible in that sense.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_05: And just the revivals in general, just seeing the people come in, um and just seeing everybody that's there now and the newcomers.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's awesome.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there was such a a depth and I think um a palatable hunger and expectation for God to show up during the revival.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I think I think we look for that at church.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: We go to church on Sundays and Wednesdays, and and you know, we go there to worship the Lord and hear a word, you know, from the word of God.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: And but yeah, that revival, it it um we spent like three months for anyone listening, you know, with this one evangelist and and this revival for it feels like it was three months, it might have been less, but um there was such a shift.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_03: It was there was such expectancy, I think.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone came with this expectancy to see what God was gonna do next, what God was gonna say next, because there was, you know, the word of God always speaks.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um but there was just such a presence of God that that was really lives were changed for sure, you know, and and I think it's difficult to explain for someone that hasn't been in the presence of God like that, because the Bible is always gonna be the Bible, it it does its job, it's anointed, it's gonna go forth and not return void.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_03: But when you add the word of God to the presence of God, um it's an experience in in a way that it is indescribable, I think.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_05: It is, it definitely is.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's something, you know, I always I tell people I, you know, I think, gosh, you have got to experience a Pentecostal church.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, for some people they think it's crazy, for other people they love it, but it is an experience, you know, and I think that when people do come, they feel they feel that there is something there.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: The Lord is there, you know.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: Not that he's not at other places because I've been to lots of other places and and the Lord is there, he's gonna be wherever his word is because it's his word.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, the revival was um wonderful.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_05: It was.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_05: And like I said, I think the growing up I never went.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_05: I'd go to events like that, but you know, when we had almost a weak revival, I never pictured myself being in a weak revival like that and just wanting to go.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_05: Wanting to go, yes, anticipating like, hey, we're going, like, let's do this, and especially doing it with your family.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_05: You know, having a wife that's in the same page, your kids are on the same page, it's it's an experience for sure.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_05: And it's it's life-changing.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um, my daughter actually got the Holy Ghost at the first revival service.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: So Oh my goodness, wow.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_05: She was seven and she got it.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh how beautiful.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: For I just think when children get it the Lord like that so early in life, what what a beautiful thing.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it definitely is.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: So being that you are sensitive on a different level than the average person, I'm gonna say.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what did you feel from the Lord during that revival?
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_05: I felt some heaviness for sure in there.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I I just gonna interject.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, someone told me, maybe more than one person told me that the heaviness is the glory of God.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: The weightiness is the glory of God.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I never knew that.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know that either.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm sharing it with you because you've said that a couple of times that it was heavy.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it wasn't heavy, burdensome, heavy.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was weighty, like like you just sort of want to bow under it.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like and just be in his presence.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I always a lot of times I pray, I pray to feel that way in glory.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_05: So I guess I kind of feel it.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_05: Now that you say that, I guess I feel a lot more than I think I do.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_05: Because there's times where I'll just break down in the pew or standing there singing the song, and I'm like, man, this is this is heavy.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but it's a good heavy, like you said, it's and it's a heavy that I never really experienced before.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_05: Before backsliding.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_05: To feel that now, it's it's pretty incredible.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think, you know, Lewis, I I particularly um I feel that sensitivity when people are sensitive in their nature, that that's not by accident.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, I I feel like um God works through our senses.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: This the spirit realm is felt, it's it's known, it's um, you know, God works through our senses.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: So the more sensitive we are in our physical sensitive sensitivities, um, the more spiritual sensitivity we're going to have.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes there's dominant, um, there's dominant nature in our senses, but I think that that's not by mistake.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like the Lord is gonna further grow you and to understand that because whatever gifts he's placed in you, you know, there's a little inkling of it in your sensitivity level.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_05: I I think so.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um because there's times I'll pray for people that are newcomers of the church, and I feel a heaviness when I pray for them.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't know if it's just me just being sensitive, uh, but I'll feel like just a heaviness when I pray for them.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I guess in a way, because I've been feel like I've been in some of their situations, I guess.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it kind of so what you're saying is you can feel what they're feeling.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know for sure.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you sense that.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_05: But I sense a heaviness when I'm praying for them.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes I break down and I'm crying for them, praying for them.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're interceding for them.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_05: It probably is.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_05: I just and that's just came over these past couple years, you know, with the revival and just trying to grow deeper.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_05: And even sometimes when I'm away from them, I kind of feel that heaviness.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like the Lord's given you a burden, and um it sounds to me like intercession and you know, something maybe to talk to Pastor about.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: But um, do you remember when Brother Logston was there?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_03: He's he stepped behind the curtain and he said, I just got really sick to my stomach or sick in my back.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: He had a pain in his back or something along those lines.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: And he said he just got hit with it.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it was he knew that there was someone there suffering from something in their back.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I can't remember the exact way he put it, but I'm saying this to you now because he learned that that's how God shows him what he wants to heal in someone else, is we feel it in ourself so that we know how to pray and what to pray.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I'm kind of excited for you to see what God is growing and developing in you.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: But um your sensitivity for sure is very special.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's never, never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever a curse.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: Although when you're a kid, it feels like that because you don't know what to do with it.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: Everything just feels big.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but personally, this is personally in my observation, I feel that it's an indication of the prophetic, you know, uh of how God wants to grow the gifts of the spirit in a person.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because we all, you know, the Bible says that he's given gifts to all of us, you know.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: The gifts are part of the Holy Ghost.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's him that works all of that in us.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so, anyways, might be something great for you to delve into because it's not there by accident.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely, you know, and um you have a a beautiful loving heart, you know, and um a gentleness, which is something special.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: Gentleness is something special.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's wonderful.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I know it's hard for I know as I've interviewed people, um not everybody knows the words to put to what they feel, you know.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: They know what they feel, they know how they feel, they know like what they think, but they've never like tried to articulate.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_05: It's very hard.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it it is.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I know.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you did good.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: You did good, and um, you can see, I can see, you know, what God is doing in your life, and I'm just really excited for you and for your family, and and glad that you were willing to take the step because like I said, you could have rejected all of that and chose to stay angry and bitter.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, and I remember Pastor, when I met with Pastor, he said the same thing that you're saying.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, a lot of men don't won't come up to this point and they'll just lose everything.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they won't stand and take that route.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't say that pridefully.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_05: I just I I took it and I was like, man, it's it it is, it means a lot because some people don't.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_05: Some people don't want to deal with it, they just would rather stay in the sin and just well, pride, you know, and it's fear.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's easier to be prideful than it is to be vulnerable.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it is, definitely.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but God knew your heart.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think it it's been a long time coming.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I feel like the time that it's came is kind of crazy being in the revival we're in, and you know, having all the new people come.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I just feel there's something there that I need to be doing.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um I feel like we're having a revival of men.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_05: I think so.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and the gangs have said that before too.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I I I just it's really incredible to sit back and and see what God is actually doing because the men are really rising up.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: More so than what I've seen in recent years.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, and I think, you know, if the dads can win, I think the families will follow.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_05: Takes that step.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, kids look up to their dads.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, they do, you know, and they look up to their moms too, but in a sense, their dad is supposed to be strong, bold, and courageous.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I think if we can win, you know, they'll follow after us.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_05: They look up to us, they're gonna want to go the path we're going, you know.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but same with women, they're they're so strong in their faith that they have the same probably stronger faith that some men have, you know.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's and it's it's a it's a blessing just to be around that.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm glad that it's a blessing to you and it doesn't intimidate you, you know, because that happens too, you know.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: You you embraced it instead of again, pride pushed away from it.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I usually um end with two questions, but for you, I'm gonna change it up.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: I've done a lot of things different with you than I've done, you know, in any other podcast.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but normally I I ask whoever I'm interviewing, what would you say to the backslider that's out there that hasn't come home yet?
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: But for you, Lewis, I want to ask you, what would you say to the guy or to the man out there who is angry and bitter because I think there's a lot of that, and who is prideful and doesn't want to walk into the church and who is struggling with feeling like all their secrets are gonna be exposed.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say to the guy who is where you've been?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know, I never really thought about that question.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um I've never asked it before.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_05: I would um, you know, I think it just being as a man, you know, you see like the pride that you deal with, and you know, there's such a humbleness when you can come before God and just surrender it all.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um because you know, I taught a Bible study recently, you know, telling men uh and it kind of hit home, you know, on David.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um you can feel that pain, you know, and you're you're praying and you're crying, and uh you know, it was a scripture that said, you know, I don't have this exactly down, but you know, a man will get up and do what he wants to do if he wants to do it.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_05: So I say to the man, if you know, you want to get up and you want to go do these things, you want to fish, golf, shoot, hike, whatever it is you want to do, try giving that to God.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um your family depends on it, really.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_05: Your wife and your children, they look up to you, but they're not gonna see you any weaker no matter what it is that you've done.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_05: You know they're gonna look at you and think, man, my dad went through that and he came out conquering.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um and I just say just try to give it your all to God.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean He will repay you.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_05: He will.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, be obedient to Him and you know, you be under submission to your pastor, whoever your pastor is, and I think that you know, God will really help you overcome whatever it is that you're dealing with.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_03: Come home.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say to the parent, to the spouse?
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like your your wife would for a long time without you.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_05: I know a lot of people say never stop, and that's really good.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_05: But also feel just people in general, um reaching out to people.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um whether it's a spouse, whether it's a friend, family member.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_05: Because you never know when that text comes through that says, Hey, I'm praying for you.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_05: Or I'm thinking of you, hope you're doing okay.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_05: You never know when that text goes through or that phone call it's gonna make a difference in their life because they could be in a situation.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um and just keep praying, praying and believing God's gonna do it.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, like I said, I would just continue to keep on him and just a way to let him know you're there.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think at the end of the day, you know, knowing somebody's in your corner backing you regardless whatever you're going through is a big help.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_05: Because you know that at least one person believes that I can do this, even though there may be multiple.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_05: But there's that one person that's still hounding me, hey, I like to see you in church again, or hey, we're having service, you know, or hey, I'm keeping you in prayer.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_05: Or we can do a Bible study, you know, just whatever it is, just reaching out to them and encouraging them.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_05: I feel really make a difference in a lot of lives.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um I've had people reach out to me, and you know it does make a difference because you know, no matter you know what you're going through, they may not know, but they care for you.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_05: And I think just having that care and compassion for people really shows and helps helps people.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's so true.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_03: When someone tells me, you know, randomly will send me a text, hey, thinking about you, praying for you.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so grateful because I believe they're really praying for me and I need prayer.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we all we all do, but man, I just I'm so grateful when I know that someone's praying for me because you know, I I think no matter how much we love God and how committed we are to walking with Him and being faithful, life is still life.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_03: And there's you know, it it still gets burdensome, it gets wearisome, it gets um stressful.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: I know, like I just walked through a whole season.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was a short season, thankfully, but but I walked through a season where I was being hit with something that I know that I know that I know.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_03: Nope, God's always taking care of this.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_03: This is not something that I need to even worry about.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_03: God's always provided in this way.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_03: But man, I I was like, well, Lord, I, you know, I I was thinking about all kinds of stuff, just saying, Lord, are you moving me in a direction?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Am I supposed to be doing this?
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_03: Am I, you know, because some things were changing for me.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And but I just kept hearing the Lord, you know, nope, just stay the course, stay the course, stay the course.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we need to be encouraged because it doesn't matter.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: We show up to church, we, you know, I do a podcast every week.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Man, we're just people trying to make it every day.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we, you know, I have faith in God, but we still get attacked by the enemy.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_03: We still go through life situations that deplete us, you know.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_03: My faith is in God, that doesn't change, but but the weariness, I guess, of of circumstances does you.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it just it just does.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um has nothing to do with this, you know.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so when someone does reach out and say, Hey, you know, you've been on my heart, I'm praying for you.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: I know that God has got someone interceding for me, and it means so much.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I I rest a little easier thinking, God, thank you.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know, sometimes we can't pray the prayers for ourselves as someone else can pray for us when we're in it.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that's good.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't do that enough.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_03: I need to do that more.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_03: I do pray for people a lot, I just don't usually take the time to tell them.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I bet that that would help if I think it does.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um, like I said, it's just to know that somebody's backing you.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, yeah, we pray and I do the same thing.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I don't reach out to people, but there's times where I do, and they're like, hey, I appreciate it, or you really came in when I didn't think like somebody was there for me, you know.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_05: So I think reaching out to people, regardless, like I said, if it's a spouse, friend, relative, anything.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_05: Somebody you know just I mean, it's a simple text.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_05: Simple call.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't take that long.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Anything else you wanna add?
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um no, not that I can think of.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um well, I'm I'm really I'm happy that you came.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, I think it's gonna bless a lot of people that like I said, we see people in church all the time.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_03: We don't really get to know them.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for sharing your testimony.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having this podcast.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's blessings just to hear other stories too, because you know you're not alone, you weren't alone.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, people were going through it, and I think it does help a lot of people.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, just to see the reach.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And well, and I am so blessed by seeing what God is doing in people, you know, because he is the redeemer, and yes, and I'm excited about what he's gonna do in you, and you know, where whatever the desires of your heart are in him.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it's good.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Lewis.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for being here.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_03: And for anyone out there, thank you for watching.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_03: If you know a backslider, a prodigal, if you could just share our channel with us, that'd be great.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we have lots of different testimonies from various walks of life.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um, we just want to, we just want someone to know they're not alone and God is waiting.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for being here.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_00: We are so glad you joined us.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Visit our website at the redeemedbackslider.org.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you will tune in for our next episode.