Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / The Real Reason “I’m Fine” Backfires in Relationships | Love | E533

Transcript

The Real Reason “I’m Fine” Backfires in Relationships | Love | E533 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

0:11
Speaker 1: Quick hello before we dive in n a big thank
0:14
Speaker 1: you to the values aligned brands making this episode possible. First,
0:19
Speaker 1: up Shopify, the business partner that takes what if I
0:22
Speaker 1: started something and turns it into sign up for your
0:26
Speaker 1: one dollar a month trial at shopify dot com slash LHS. Next,
0:32
Speaker 1: Upwork the place to find expert freelancers for all the
0:35
Speaker 1: things on your list you don't actually have time to
0:39
Speaker 1: do or maybe you don't know how to do. Post
0:41
Speaker 1: your job there for free at upwork dot com and
0:44
Speaker 1: build your dream team. Special thanks to ocam Malibu clean
0:49
Speaker 1: science backed skincare from the Sea. And Yes, I'm a
0:52
Speaker 1: little obsessed with our body oil. Use code LHS at
0:56
Speaker 1: Ocamalibu dot com for ten percent off your first I
1:01
Speaker 1: am similarly obsessed with prolog, the longevity back nutrition program
1:06
Speaker 1: designed to support energy clarity and give you a real
1:10
Speaker 1: metabolic reset. Get fifteen percent off plus a forty dollars
1:14
Speaker 1: bonus gift at Prolonlife dot com slash LHS. All the
1:18
Speaker 1: links and codes are in the show notes for this episode.
1:22
Speaker 1: Now let's get into it.
1:30
Speaker 2: We can all use help learning ways to better connect
1:33
Speaker 2: with one another.
1:39
Speaker 1: What if something you've never heard of much less thought about.
1:43
Speaker 1: Is actually the secret sauce, the practice that could make
1:47
Speaker 1: every single relationship in your life ten x better. Well,
1:52
Speaker 1: it's a thing. It's called attunement. And by the end
1:57
Speaker 1: of today's show, you will not just have acquired a
2:00
Speaker 1: new vocabulary word, You're going to have picked up a
2:03
Speaker 1: few new relationship skills that are going to make so
2:06
Speaker 1: many things feel so much easier.
2:17
Speaker 2: Is their body language closed off? Are we noticing their
2:20
Speaker 2: facial expressions or shifting? Is their demeanor in terms of
2:24
Speaker 2: their the language and the tone of voice that they're
2:27
Speaker 2: using changing, becoming stronger and more defensive. Are we noticing
2:31
Speaker 2: people literally leaning away instead of leaning in? Reading those
2:35
Speaker 2: cues gives you a window into what's happening internally with
2:38
Speaker 2: the other person, right.
2:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
2:49
Speaker 1: If this is your first time tuning in, Hello, Hello,
2:52
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you are here that you found me.
2:54
Speaker 1: And this this is love, happiness and success. I'm doctor Lisa,
2:58
Speaker 1: Marie Bobby, and we here every single week talking about
3:01
Speaker 1: all kinds of different things that help you learn, grow,
3:05
Speaker 1: develop yourself, have better relationships, and even get ahead in
3:10
Speaker 1: your career path or your definition of success, whatever that
3:15
Speaker 1: might be. And so today we are diving into this
3:19
Speaker 1: sphere of relationships, not just intimate partnerships, but really every
3:25
Speaker 1: relationship in your life, from coworkers and colleagues, to with
3:29
Speaker 1: your family of origin, to your friends, and yes also
3:33
Speaker 1: to your partner through the skill of attunement. And we're
3:38
Speaker 1: learning all about this today with a very special guest.
3:42
Speaker 2: This whole like neuro biological process happens that creates this
3:46
Speaker 2: feeling of vibing with one another, being closely connected to
3:49
Speaker 2: one another.
3:58
Speaker 1: My guest is to Worry, a license clinical social worker
4:03
Speaker 1: and workplace well being expert, not to mention author of
4:07
Speaker 1: the new book Working Well out very soon about the
4:11
Speaker 1: science of attunement and how it actually shows up in
4:15
Speaker 1: all the different relationships in our life. So, Nithy, so
4:20
Speaker 1: good to connect with you today.
4:22
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
4:23
Speaker 1: So let's just jump right into this. One of the
4:27
Speaker 1: core concepts of your work is something called attunement, and
4:32
Speaker 1: let's just unpack that. It's a big word. What does
4:35
Speaker 1: that mean to you? Attunement?
4:37
Speaker 2: In essence, attunement just means being in tune or in
4:40
Speaker 2: sync with people, right. It's this full body presence that
4:45
Speaker 2: we have with the people that we're close to or
4:47
Speaker 2: in dialogue with, and it allows people to feel felt
4:50
Speaker 2: in their experiences with us. Right. So, the way that
4:54
Speaker 2: I think about it is that it allows us to
4:57
Speaker 2: connect on a really deep level. And not only is
5:00
Speaker 2: it this interpersonal dynamic, this relational dynamic that's happening, it's
5:04
Speaker 2: actually happening on a physiological level as well. So when
5:08
Speaker 2: I was doing the research for this book, I found
5:10
Speaker 2: a lot of studies that talked about how when they
5:13
Speaker 2: did MRIs of people who were in sync with one another,
5:17
Speaker 2: our heart rates sync up, our hormones sync up, our
5:20
Speaker 2: neurons the way that our neurons fire sync up. So
5:23
Speaker 2: this whole like neurobiological process happens that creates this feeling
5:28
Speaker 2: of vibing with one another, being closely connected to one another.
5:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, that it is a reality based thing that it's happening,
5:37
Speaker 1: not just in the way we feel, but in the
5:39
Speaker 1: way our bodies respond. Are you referring to the work
5:42
Speaker 1: of doctor Helen Fisher right now? Just out of curiosity,
5:45
Speaker 1: I would have to look back. I put you on
5:47
Speaker 1: this pop quiz. Let's talk about your citations. Well, so
5:53
Speaker 1: doctor Fisher, who the world lost, I believe last year unfortunately,
5:58
Speaker 1: but she did so much fascinating research people falling in
6:01
Speaker 1: love or going through heartbreak, but also experiencing emotional connection
6:06
Speaker 1: with other people and a functional mr that looked at
6:09
Speaker 1: physiological changes that people experienced when they connected with others
6:14
Speaker 1: or also when they felt very disconnected from others. And
6:17
Speaker 1: it supported what you're saying that we actually can regulate
6:20
Speaker 1: ourselves through attunement with other people. So just take us
6:24
Speaker 1: into this. I mean, why is that so important? And
6:29
Speaker 1: like what does this look like? I mean, are we
6:31
Speaker 1: doing it? Are we attuned right now? Is this it?
6:34
Speaker 1: What is this?
6:35
Speaker 2: Yeah? So it's this moment to moment shifting that happens
6:39
Speaker 2: to be responsive to the other person.
6:40
Speaker 1: Right.
6:41
Speaker 2: So, on a practical level, it can look like when
6:44
Speaker 2: you notice that your partner is off right and you
6:47
Speaker 2: start to observe, Okay, they're withdrawing a little bit. I
6:50
Speaker 2: notice that they're pulling away, so you might lean in,
6:53
Speaker 2: you might try to reach out a bit more. That's
6:55
Speaker 2: a moment to moment responsiveness. Now, if they continue to
6:59
Speaker 2: withdraw on pull away, to be attuned means to maybe
7:02
Speaker 2: give them some space, give them the opportunity to kind
7:05
Speaker 2: of you know, notice what they're experiencing internally before they
7:10
Speaker 2: then reach out back to you for connection, and that
7:13
Speaker 2: is part of a tuning, is being able to notice
7:15
Speaker 2: these subtle shifts that happen moment to moment with the
7:18
Speaker 2: people that we're interacting with and adapting accordingly. My research
7:23
Speaker 2: that I conducted, which is mostly focused on the workplace,
7:26
Speaker 2: identified four main skills. So these are like the components
7:29
Speaker 2: people need to master here, really simple stuff actually when
7:32
Speaker 2: you think about it, so you can remember it through
7:35
Speaker 2: the acronym frsc frisk.
7:37
Speaker 1: Okay, I love a good four step plan. This is
7:40
Speaker 1: good and acronyms all the better.
7:42
Speaker 2: Absolutely, F is for flexibility, So it's being able to
7:46
Speaker 2: be agile, being adaptable in the moment, recognizing that there
7:50
Speaker 2: is no one size fits all. So what your best
7:53
Speaker 2: friend needs from you yesterday may not be what they
7:55
Speaker 2: need from you today. What your boss is requiring of
7:59
Speaker 2: you in this moment is not necessarily what they need
8:01
Speaker 2: from you in the next moment. So having that flexibility
8:04
Speaker 2: and your responsiveness is key. So we have reading cues,
8:07
Speaker 2: so this is our ability to gauge verbal and non
8:10
Speaker 2: verbal cues from the other person. Is their body language
8:14
Speaker 2: closed off? Are we noticing their facial expressions or shifting.
8:18
Speaker 2: Is their demeanor in terms of their the language and
8:21
Speaker 2: the tone of voice that they're using changing, becoming stronger
8:24
Speaker 2: or more defensive. Are we noticing people literally leaning away
8:28
Speaker 2: instead of leaning in. Reading those cues gives you a
8:31
Speaker 2: window into what's happening internally with the other person. Right
8:35
Speaker 2: s is then self regulation, so you start to notice, oh, no,
8:39
Speaker 2: they're leaning away from me. What am I doing? That's wrong?
8:42
Speaker 2: You start to get defensive. Part of that is being
8:44
Speaker 2: able to regulate your own nervous systems so that you
8:47
Speaker 2: can be fully present with the other person and meet
8:49
Speaker 2: your needs and their needs simultaneously. And then see is collaboration,
8:54
Speaker 2: So recognizing that every relationship that we're in, whether it's
8:57
Speaker 2: with our boss, it's with our partner, ours, that we
9:01
Speaker 2: are in a collaborative relationship where we are seeking alignment,
9:05
Speaker 2: we're on the same team, and so being able to
9:07
Speaker 2: work together to come to mutually agreeable conclusion if we're
9:11
Speaker 2: in conflict, or find a way to meet each other
9:14
Speaker 2: where we're at is absolutely essential. So those four skills,
9:18
Speaker 2: if you can master those, you will have a really
9:21
Speaker 2: great head start when it comes to attunement.
9:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well, and it all sounds great, can be
9:28
Speaker 1: harder to put into practice right than it is to
9:31
Speaker 1: talk about it. So you know, let's actually crack into that.
9:35
Speaker 1: And I hope this is okay to ask you maybe
9:37
Speaker 1: a more personal question. I mean, I'm kind of curious
9:40
Speaker 1: to know if there was a time in your life
9:45
Speaker 1: when this wasn't working that turned into part of your
9:49
Speaker 1: drive to do this research, to create this book, to
9:53
Speaker 1: figure it out, and a way to make things feel easier.
9:57
Speaker 1: Is there an origin story here?
9:59
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I was
10:02
Speaker 2: a high performer in an organization, I'll give you the
10:06
Speaker 2: professional and then the personal. When I was a high
10:08
Speaker 2: performer in an organization, I was taking on all the things.
10:11
Speaker 2: I was planning all the holiday gatherings. I was the
10:13
Speaker 2: one who was doing trainings for everybody. I literally like
10:17
Speaker 2: mentored people on the team right, did far above what
10:20
Speaker 2: was expected of me. And then in twenty sixteen, my
10:24
Speaker 2: best friend of ten years plus was diagnosed with stage
10:28
Speaker 2: four brain cancer. Oh no, yeah, and within eighteen months
10:31
Speaker 2: she went from diagnosis to passing away. In that timeframe,
10:35
Speaker 2: I recognized that initially my team was extremely supportive of me,
10:40
Speaker 2: They wanted to show up, they checked in on me,
10:43
Speaker 2: they were accommodating. I felt very seen and felt in
10:46
Speaker 2: my experience. Unfortunately, at some point that shifted and it
10:50
Speaker 2: went from feeling very attuned to to noticing this connection gap,
10:54
Speaker 2: this experience of misattunement where they literally told me to
10:58
Speaker 2: compartmentalize this experience, that I needed to focus on work
11:02
Speaker 2: during work hours, and it led to me feeling quite
11:05
Speaker 2: the trayed at work. Yeah. So it was my first
11:10
Speaker 2: experience in the workplace, actually not first, but one of
11:12
Speaker 2: a few experiences in the workplace where I noticed, like,
11:16
Speaker 2: this is a pattern, and this is with people who
11:18
Speaker 2: are mental health clinicians, people who are trained in attunement.
11:22
Speaker 2: That is a core skill that we learn in our
11:24
Speaker 2: normal training. And I thought to myself, if they're struggling
11:28
Speaker 2: to attune to me, I can't imagine what's happening in
11:32
Speaker 2: the corporate world where they have no training in this
11:34
Speaker 2: and people are experiencing similar struggles to me and have
11:37
Speaker 2: even less support available to them. Now, I've also personally
11:42
Speaker 2: been misattuned on my own towards other people. And if
11:46
Speaker 2: I recognize that as a therapist, I have a lot
11:48
Speaker 2: of gaps too, because I'm human. So, for example, I
11:51
Speaker 2: have fallen into the trap of being the fixer for
11:54
Speaker 2: people where they come to me with a problem, and
11:57
Speaker 2: because of my own discomfort and my design to help
12:00
Speaker 2: them and feel important, I jump in with solutions and
12:03
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, okay, so you're feeling stressed about having
12:06
Speaker 2: to take the kids to soccer practice and cook dinner
12:09
Speaker 2: and then worked forty hours a week. Have you thought
12:12
Speaker 2: about reorganizing your schedule? Why don't you try this to
12:15
Speaker 2: new type of hot yoga? Right, Like, I just jumped
12:17
Speaker 2: in with these solutions, and I realized I was creating
12:20
Speaker 2: disconnection in my relationships by trying to fix it for people.
12:25
Speaker 2: So on a personal level, I realized that I'm also
12:29
Speaker 2: not immune to this, and that we could all use
12:32
Speaker 2: help learning ways to better connect with one another. And
12:35
Speaker 2: both of those many these many experiences, there are so
12:37
Speaker 2: many more I could mention led to me wanting to
12:40
Speaker 2: write this book to help other people to do better.
12:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. Well, thank you so much for
12:45
Speaker 1: sharing that story and such nice examples of what can
12:51
Speaker 1: happen so frequently in our lives when you know person
12:55
Speaker 1: A is not really getting person b how they feel
13:01
Speaker 1: or what they need, and it can happen all over
13:04
Speaker 1: the place, at home, at work, even in professional relationships.
13:09
Speaker 1: I mean, and thank you for sharing that so bravely.
13:11
Speaker 1: Like as a therapist, I have not always been a
13:15
Speaker 1: tune with my clients like same right, Like we're human,
13:18
Speaker 1: let's just go. I mean, if we were to go
13:20
Speaker 1: into the imaginary time machine and ugh, I'm sure you
13:25
Speaker 1: don't like love the idea of revisiting this. But back
13:27
Speaker 1: into twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, when you've gone through this
13:30
Speaker 1: terrible loss of your friend, and I'm sure that you
13:33
Speaker 1: were at work with big feelings present and really like
13:36
Speaker 1: not being okay, why should you be? If people had
13:42
Speaker 1: been attuned to you and really open and receptive to
13:50
Speaker 1: what you were communicating in the way you showed up
13:54
Speaker 1: your behaviors, even what you were saying, what would they
13:58
Speaker 1: have understood about you and what you needed?
14:02
Speaker 2: I think that they would have seen how incredibly depressed
14:05
Speaker 2: I was during that time. I went from being my
14:08
Speaker 2: best friend's best friend to being her caregiver. Right I
14:12
Speaker 2: was taking her to her medical appointments and helping her
14:15
Speaker 2: to pick up her prescriptions, and there were so many
14:18
Speaker 2: sleepless nights where I was absolutely terrified knowing the prognosis
14:23
Speaker 2: of this type of brain cancer. Right, and so as
14:26
Speaker 2: a result of that, I really did struggle to get
14:29
Speaker 2: up and get to work on time. I had a
14:31
Speaker 2: hard time focusing. And all of these things were accused.
14:35
Speaker 2: They should have been signals, right to my leadership and
14:37
Speaker 2: to my colleagues, that something is wrong with Niitty, like
14:41
Speaker 2: I need to do a better job of checking in,
14:43
Speaker 2: and perhaps there are better supports that we can put
14:45
Speaker 2: into place, Maybe we can be flexible with her in
14:48
Speaker 2: terms of our expectations given these extraordinary circumstances. Right. One
14:53
Speaker 2: of the moments that really stood out to me that
14:55
Speaker 2: I mentioned in the book is this gotcha moment that
14:59
Speaker 2: happened with my boss during that time.
15:01
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, So.
15:03
Speaker 2: I was running late, like I mentioned a moment ago,
15:05
Speaker 2: because I just was so depressed. I could not function
15:08
Speaker 2: in the mornings. It was hard and already as an
15:10
Speaker 2: ADHD year, right, it's like mornings are not my thing.
15:13
Speaker 2: So you add on top of that depression, it's like
15:15
Speaker 2: it's a wrap. I'm not getting there on time. So
15:17
Speaker 2: I had to explained this to her. I told her, like, hey,
15:20
Speaker 2: this is something that I'm having a hard time with.
15:22
Speaker 2: Can we shift some things around to accommodate And nothing
15:27
Speaker 2: really changed. And so one day I showed up to work.
15:29
Speaker 2: I was maybe ten fifteen minutes late, and she shows
15:31
Speaker 2: up with some Starbucks in her hand and is like, Hey,
15:34
Speaker 2: I just wanted to check in and spend some time
15:37
Speaker 2: with you and just chat. And so I assumed, okay, wow,
15:40
Speaker 2: like she's really making an effort to connect with me.
15:44
Speaker 2: Until later on that day I got back to the
15:46
Speaker 2: office and I had a one on one with her
15:48
Speaker 2: where I was reprimanded, and that was her catching me
15:51
Speaker 2: in the moment of being late, and it was a gotcha.
15:54
Speaker 2: It was like, see, I knew that you were fifteen
15:56
Speaker 2: minutes late. I caught you in the act. Here's what
15:59
Speaker 2: you need to be doing differently. There was no conversation
16:03
Speaker 2: of what's going on, are you okay? Like we know
16:06
Speaker 2: that there's so much happening, where are things at now?
16:09
Speaker 2: None of that. It was just jumping straight to reprimanding me.
16:13
Speaker 2: And so that moment really stood out to me. Had
16:16
Speaker 2: they just been a bit more curious, right, it could
16:20
Speaker 2: have really transformed my time there.
16:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And man, well gosh, I'm sorry that you
16:27
Speaker 1: experienced that, And I think what a nice example of
16:32
Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now, and in the context
16:36
Speaker 1: of what you shared previously, like you were the A
16:38
Speaker 1: plus plus plus plus star before performer who was doing
16:42
Speaker 1: above and beyond all the things, like the person that
16:45
Speaker 1: everybody else was like, hey, nathe catch you know, like
16:48
Speaker 1: that is the way that you describe yourself and then
16:50
Speaker 1: all of a sudden feeling real different and for people
16:52
Speaker 1: just to come alongside you and be curious about you
16:55
Speaker 1: in that moment instead of punitive. That is such a
16:59
Speaker 1: great example of what might have strengthened a relationship, increased
17:04
Speaker 1: the trust, right, Like that's a bonding moment right there,
17:08
Speaker 1: as opposed to a moment that I'm guessing broke the
17:12
Speaker 1: trust and created a rupture in that relationship that might
17:16
Speaker 1: have felt hard to come back from.
17:17
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, and there was no repair that happened
17:20
Speaker 2: afterwards either, right, So it was very short. I had
17:23
Speaker 2: worked with that organization for almost four years, and at
17:26
Speaker 2: that point it was like, Okay, my time is up here,
17:28
Speaker 2: like I need to I need to leave. I had
17:31
Speaker 2: also noticed during that time that the people who were
17:35
Speaker 2: leaders within this organization had their own discomfort with what
17:40
Speaker 2: was happening with me, and I picked up on that right, like,
17:43
Speaker 2: that's part of being in tune with other people is
17:46
Speaker 2: not just noticing like these moments of connection, it's also
17:48
Speaker 2: noticing these moments that people are pulling away. And I
17:51
Speaker 2: observed that there was quite a bit of dysregulation, like
17:55
Speaker 2: they were out of sorts themselves from an emotional standpoint,
17:58
Speaker 2: whether it was their own grip getting triggered up, or
18:01
Speaker 2: whether it was their own feelings of helplessness or you know,
18:05
Speaker 2: desire for everybody to perform in a particular way. You know,
18:08
Speaker 2: there was no understanding of how disorienting this was for me,
18:13
Speaker 2: and that I was also experiencing a loss of identity
18:16
Speaker 2: that I think so many people experience when you're a
18:18
Speaker 2: high performer and suddenly you just cannot perform at that
18:21
Speaker 2: level any longer.
18:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I get that well. And so let me
18:27
Speaker 1: just ask you this. I mean, one of the things
18:29
Speaker 1: that I've observed and I've certainly experienced in my personal
18:33
Speaker 1: life too, I mean with myself when I'm not okay
18:37
Speaker 1: or with other people, is that I think when we
18:42
Speaker 1: are activated, when we are having intense feelings, our own
18:46
Speaker 1: internal experience. It can be fairly consuming, right, Like, it
18:53
Speaker 1: makes it harder to really be present with and notice
18:56
Speaker 1: what's going on inside of other people if we're experiencing
19:00
Speaker 1: big things, although maybe sometimes it could lead to more
19:03
Speaker 1: empathy if we're having a similar experience to someone else.
19:07
Speaker 1: But I'd be curious to hear what your research or
19:10
Speaker 1: exploration in your book has to say about that is
19:13
Speaker 1: a tunement disrupted by our own stuff.
19:17
Speaker 2: One hundred percent is absolutely, which is why it's so
19:21
Speaker 2: important for us to not only observe what's happening within ourselves,
19:24
Speaker 2: we have to hold that alongside the person that we
19:27
Speaker 2: are in relationship with. So if you're disregulated, the other
19:31
Speaker 2: person will pick up on that and they will feel
19:33
Speaker 2: disconnected from you. So if you come to somebody and there,
19:37
Speaker 2: or if somebody comes to you rather and they're feeling
19:39
Speaker 2: stressed and your go to is to avoid or to
19:42
Speaker 2: distract or to try to solution it, right, that is
19:45
Speaker 2: going to leave the other person feeling very disconnected and
19:49
Speaker 2: unseen and unheard by you. And that's not a result
19:52
Speaker 2: of anything that they're doing. Necessarily, it's due to our
19:55
Speaker 2: own discomfort, our own difficulties, being able to tolerate other
19:58
Speaker 2: people's hardship and holding space and being able to be
20:02
Speaker 2: present with that. So that's why that self regulation piece
20:05
Speaker 2: is so so important, and self regulation always proceeds coregulation, right, Like,
20:12
Speaker 2: we can't be with other people if we cannot be
20:14
Speaker 2: with ourselves first, And it's why I focus so much
20:18
Speaker 2: on that in the first section of this book, is like,
20:20
Speaker 2: we've got to master ourselves before we're going to be
20:23
Speaker 2: connecting with anybody else. And that's usually where I find
20:27
Speaker 2: a lot of people, especially at work, are missing the
20:29
Speaker 2: skill set because they think like, well, isn't that meant
20:32
Speaker 2: for therapy or I get why that would be relevant
20:34
Speaker 2: in like my romantic relationships or my friendships, but why
20:38
Speaker 2: is that relevant to me as a leader or to
20:40
Speaker 2: me alongside my colleagues. It's like, well, because the same
20:43
Speaker 2: stuff shows up, Like, oh yeah, the way you do
20:45
Speaker 2: one relationship is how you do all of them, right,
20:48
Speaker 2: So that's that's really the thing to keep in mind.
20:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that perspective, by the way, And you know,
20:55
Speaker 1: sometimes people are like love, happiness and success. Wouldn't it
20:59
Speaker 1: be better if we just talked about one thing? Lisa,
21:01
Speaker 1: like why you know, because there is like a diversity
21:04
Speaker 1: to the things that we're talking about on the show.
21:06
Speaker 1: But my reason for that is exactly what you're saying.
21:09
Speaker 1: The It's like, you bring yourself into every situation in
21:14
Speaker 1: your life, and you're not actually a different person when
21:18
Speaker 1: you're showing up in relationships at work, which are a
21:22
Speaker 1: lot of your time and your energy in your life
21:24
Speaker 1: right than you are with your mother, with your partner,
21:27
Speaker 1: with your friend. You carry yourself with you into all
21:30
Speaker 1: of these and your patterns in one area will always
21:33
Speaker 1: show up in another area. And so one of the things, honestly,
21:38
Speaker 1: I do career counseling, career coaching as part of what
21:42
Speaker 1: I do here at Growing Self, and I love this
21:45
Speaker 1: concept of professional growth. I think so many times when
21:49
Speaker 1: people are feeling frustrated with their job, it always turns
21:52
Speaker 1: into get a new job, right, do something else? What
21:55
Speaker 1: am I supposed to do with my life? Which is fine,
21:57
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes there is, you know, a disconnect between
22:02
Speaker 1: what we're doing and what our strengths and gifts are,
22:04
Speaker 1: what we want to be doing. That's fine, but so
22:06
Speaker 1: many times there are really substantial growth opportunities that can
22:10
Speaker 1: happen by staying there and actually figuring out, YEA, why
22:15
Speaker 1: is this feeling so hard? And what does this say
22:18
Speaker 1: about my own opportunities for development? And so we're going
22:23
Speaker 1: to be talking about attunement and how it shows up
22:26
Speaker 1: in personal relationships and friendships. But can we talk about
22:31
Speaker 1: what happens when we are not engaging in good attunement
22:36
Speaker 1: in our jobs and how that can change our experience?
22:41
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way.
22:42
Speaker 2: Well, one of the challenges that's plaguing workplaces right now
22:47
Speaker 2: is this feeling of loneliness and isolation and disconnection in
22:52
Speaker 2: the forty hours a week that we're spending alongside these
22:54
Speaker 2: people at work right exactly. And I think that a
22:57
Speaker 2: lot of that is rooted in misattunement. It's because we
23:01
Speaker 2: are not able to connect effectively. We have these very
23:04
Speaker 2: cursory level conversations with people asking, you know, hey, how
23:08
Speaker 2: is your weekend? But what about that snowstorm that we
23:11
Speaker 2: just had? Right like things that expose nothing about the
23:14
Speaker 2: other person. There's no vulnerability there. And the core of
23:18
Speaker 2: that is that there isn't the trust in psychological safety
23:21
Speaker 2: built in a lot of workplaces for people to feel
23:23
Speaker 2: safe being themselves showing up as their whole person and
23:27
Speaker 2: being open about what's really happening, which is often difficult
23:31
Speaker 2: behind the scenes. And so attunement is what's missing in
23:34
Speaker 2: the workplace. And in the research study that I conducted,
23:37
Speaker 2: we looked at some particular questions right when we were
23:41
Speaker 2: gauging how attuned or misattuned are people's leadership and teams,
23:45
Speaker 2: And some of those questions included like, does your boss
23:48
Speaker 2: read your facial expressions when they sense that you're not
23:51
Speaker 2: interested in something that they're talking about that you're talking about?
23:55
Speaker 2: When they sense that you're not interested in something that
23:57
Speaker 2: they're talking about, do they then shift gear to ensure
24:01
Speaker 2: that you know there's changing the topic to something that
24:04
Speaker 2: makes sense for you. If you have or if you're
24:07
Speaker 2: sending them cues nonverbally and verbally that something isn't landing,
24:10
Speaker 2: are they shifting their expectations of you? And what we
24:13
Speaker 2: found is that when workplaces have really high levels of
24:16
Speaker 2: attunement between team members as well as between leaders and teams,
24:20
Speaker 2: it improves so many outcomes like trust, job satisfaction. People
24:25
Speaker 2: felt happier, healthier in their workplaces, productivity, right like all
24:30
Speaker 2: of these things that we desire from a business standpoint
24:33
Speaker 2: are connected to how well we create a culture within
24:36
Speaker 2: the workplace. And the culture is not going to be
24:38
Speaker 2: pizza parties and happy hours, right, that is completely the
24:43
Speaker 2: wrong direction.
24:44
Speaker 1: Did you act severance?
24:45
Speaker 2: Right?
24:46
Speaker 1: Mellon? All right, Waffle Bay, Oh my god.
24:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not it. Like, that's not it. It's how
24:52
Speaker 2: do we help people to feel valued like they matter.
24:56
Speaker 2: When I was writing an article for HBr her Business Review,
25:00
Speaker 2: one of the most searched terms within glassdoor was like,
25:05
Speaker 2: does this leader have their teams back? Like that's something
25:09
Speaker 2: that is missing right now in the workplace, Like how
25:12
Speaker 2: much distrust there is? So we have an uphill battle,
25:15
Speaker 2: But if we can learn the skill set, we're laying
25:17
Speaker 2: a solid foundation to improve the way that we work.
25:21
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let me ask you a different question,
25:25
Speaker 1: and then we're going to take all of this on
25:28
Speaker 1: the other side of the break and we're going to
25:30
Speaker 1: apply it to our personal lives too. But you know,
25:33
Speaker 1: right now, I'm imagining standing here with me a couple
25:36
Speaker 1: of my friends, business leaders, many of them therapists like
25:40
Speaker 1: you and I, and conversations that I have actually had
25:44
Speaker 1: with some of them around I. This is in the
25:49
Speaker 1: voice of my friend the leader saying, I feel like
25:52
Speaker 1: I'm such a sensitive person and I'm always, you know,
25:56
Speaker 1: talking with employees about what's going on with them, and
26:00
Speaker 1: they're telling me things, and then that makes me feel
26:05
Speaker 1: like I can't hold boundaries or I need to accommodate
26:09
Speaker 1: their feelings to the point where I start over functioning
26:13
Speaker 1: and doing their job, or where maybe I know too
26:17
Speaker 1: much about their personal lives. Then feels in some ways
26:21
Speaker 1: appropriate for me. It's almost feeling more like a personal friendship.
26:26
Speaker 1: That changes the dynamic. When I am actually their supervisor
26:30
Speaker 1: and they have stuff and there's a due date, it's
26:32
Speaker 1: hard for me to hold boundaries if I'm going into
26:35
Speaker 1: the friend zone. I'm curious to your response to my
26:39
Speaker 1: imaginary friend who is probably more sensitive than the average well,
26:47
Speaker 1: and I don't want to make assumptions and say that
26:49
Speaker 1: other leaders and other types of industries aren't a sensitive
26:52
Speaker 1: That might not be true. What's your reaction to that.
26:56
Speaker 2: I think that there's a way to be attuned to
26:58
Speaker 2: people while still containing your boundaries. The goal of the
27:02
Speaker 2: interaction here is not to resolve things for the other person.
27:06
Speaker 2: It's not for you to become their personal therapist. It's
27:09
Speaker 2: simply to be abreast of what's happening so that you
27:12
Speaker 2: have context for their behavior. So when somebody is struggling
27:17
Speaker 2: to meet their deadlines, or they're falling behind and responding
27:19
Speaker 2: to emails, or maybe they're they're like canceling a lot
27:23
Speaker 2: on their clients, for example, that you get really curious
27:26
Speaker 2: about what might be happening behind the scenes so that
27:29
Speaker 2: you have an understanding of how that's influencing the way
27:33
Speaker 2: that they're showing up at work. Where the boundary gets
27:36
Speaker 2: blurred is when we start to dive into putting on
27:39
Speaker 2: that therapist hat, which leave that for the clinician chair
27:43
Speaker 2: right when you're in session with people. That's not the
27:45
Speaker 2: expectation here. The expectation is instead to just be able
27:49
Speaker 2: to normalize and validate for people that they're not alone
27:53
Speaker 2: in their experience, that what they're experiencing makes sense, and
27:57
Speaker 2: that you will now direct them to the appropriate sources
28:00
Speaker 2: and support to get them the help that they need.
28:02
Speaker 2: Often that is all that anybody's asking. They're not wanting
28:07
Speaker 2: you to show up and to be like their best
28:09
Speaker 2: to eat in this encounter, right, They're just simply wanting
28:13
Speaker 2: to let you know so that you're not holding them
28:15
Speaker 2: accountable to standards that they just cannot meet at this
28:18
Speaker 2: moment in time, and then you, as a compassionate leader,
28:21
Speaker 2: can ensure that you're giving them the avenue to help
28:25
Speaker 2: them to cope more effectively with everything that they're dealing
28:28
Speaker 2: with in their personal lives.
28:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I could certainly see how that approach
28:32
Speaker 1: would lead to more well being and satisfaction in the job.
28:35
Speaker 1: But I'm also really starting to hear how some of
28:38
Speaker 1: these same ideas would make a ton of difference and
28:42
Speaker 1: outcomes when it comes to personal relationships. So let's take
28:46
Speaker 1: a super quick break, and on the other side, I'll
28:50
Speaker 1: be asking you about how to become more attuned create
28:53
Speaker 1: that kind of culture in your family. If your definition
29:10
Speaker 1: of success includes running your own business, here are the
29:14
Speaker 1: biggest obstacles nobody's going to tell you about. Anxiety and loneliness.
29:20
Speaker 1: Anxiety spirals come when you don't know what to do,
29:23
Speaker 1: and loneliness happens when you have to figure everything out
29:27
Speaker 1: on your own. It can be paralyzing. That was certainly
29:30
Speaker 1: my experience when I started growing self, Because it wasn't
29:33
Speaker 1: whether or not I was a good therapist. It was
29:35
Speaker 1: the fact that I wasn't a professional marketing person, an
29:38
Speaker 1: IT expert, a bookkeeper, and as a business owner, I
29:43
Speaker 1: had to figure out all that stuff anyway, I wish
29:46
Speaker 1: i'd had a partner like Shopify. Shopify is like a
29:49
Speaker 1: whole team that helps you. They have AI tools that
29:53
Speaker 1: help you figure out what to say on your web page,
29:56
Speaker 1: helps with photography, you can run email and social campaigns.
30:00
Speaker 1: And if you're selling anything on your website, they've got you.
30:03
Speaker 1: They are e commerce experts who can help with everything
30:07
Speaker 1: from digital products to inventory, to international shipping to returns.
30:13
Speaker 1: You don't have to go this alone. Do not let anxiety, spirals, lowliness,
30:18
Speaker 1: or paralysis hold you back. Instead, start your business today
30:22
Speaker 1: with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing
30:28
Speaker 1: from your website too. Sign up for your one dollar
30:31
Speaker 1: a month trial today at shopify dot com slash LHS
30:35
Speaker 1: that is shopify dot com LHS for your one dollar
30:39
Speaker 1: a month free trial. We all need daily rituals. Oh
30:55
Speaker 1: see skincare as part of mine. I use their under
31:00
Speaker 1: algaebody oil every single night, actually to take off my
31:04
Speaker 1: makeup as well as hydrate and friends. Not bragging, but
31:08
Speaker 1: I have people stopping me on the street wanting to
31:11
Speaker 1: talk about my skin on a pretty regular basis, and
31:14
Speaker 1: I do think Oca products have something to do with that.
31:17
Speaker 1: What I love about Ocea's Andaria Algaebody oil is that
31:21
Speaker 1: it's lightweight, It absorbs really fast, it's never greasy, just
31:25
Speaker 1: kind of melts in. And it's not just my face
31:28
Speaker 1: that proves it. It's clinically shown to improve elasticity and
31:32
Speaker 1: deeply moisturize, so my skin feels silkier and has that healthy,
31:37
Speaker 1: glowy look. I love their products so much. I actually
31:40
Speaker 1: gave my sister a set for her birthday. Now she's
31:44
Speaker 1: hooked to you will be as well. Check out Ocea's
31:47
Speaker 1: award winning Andaria Algaebody Oil for skin that deserves more
31:52
Speaker 1: than lotion. Get ten percent off your first order sitwide
31:57
Speaker 1: with code LAHS at Oca Malibu dot com. That is
32:02
Speaker 1: os E A Malibu, m A l I b U
32:06
Speaker 1: dot com slash LHS for ten percent off your skin. Well,
32:11
Speaker 1: thank you, so welcome back, and so let's continue this
32:23
Speaker 1: conversation right where we left off meThe So we've been
32:26
Speaker 1: talking about attunement and the importance of really being curious
32:30
Speaker 1: and like present picking up on what other people are feeling,
32:35
Speaker 1: what do they need? Being curious at work, tell us
32:39
Speaker 1: what this looks like at home.
32:42
Speaker 2: I think one of the most important elements of this
32:45
Speaker 2: is recognizing how you show up in your relationships at home.
32:49
Speaker 2: So there are four ways that I have found that
32:52
Speaker 2: people most commonly will show up, and three of them
32:56
Speaker 2: are not what we want to go for. And then
32:58
Speaker 2: the last one is the idea. Right, so you could
33:01
Speaker 2: remember this with the word face. We got to face
33:04
Speaker 2: our communication styles right. So f is for fixers, and
33:07
Speaker 2: these are the people that jump in with the solutions.
33:09
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned earlier in this episode, when somebody shares
33:12
Speaker 2: something with you, you immediately want to solve it, and
33:16
Speaker 2: that is driven by a couple of factors. One is
33:19
Speaker 2: that it's our own discomfort. It makes us feel like
33:22
Speaker 2: we can't tolerate the fact that this other person is
33:25
Speaker 2: in the depths of despair and so we want to
33:27
Speaker 2: just make it better. And then the second piece of
33:30
Speaker 2: it is that it helps us to feel important and
33:32
Speaker 2: helpful and like we're doing something to better them. And
33:35
Speaker 2: often it does not land because if we wanted advice,
33:39
Speaker 2: we would ask for it, and when we receive unsolicited advice.
33:43
Speaker 2: It feels very presumptuous that the other person somehow knows
33:47
Speaker 2: us better than we know ourselves. So as people are
33:49
Speaker 2: listening to this, be just registering where am I on
33:53
Speaker 2: these four different styles. So we got the fixers, then
33:56
Speaker 2: we have the avoids. So the avoids are the people
33:59
Speaker 2: that buy pass your emotions altogether. They either change the
34:03
Speaker 2: subject so you share something with your partner and you're like,
34:05
Speaker 2: I am just really having a hard time with my
34:08
Speaker 2: dad who has dementia. I feel exhausted, I'm really scared
34:11
Speaker 2: about his decline, and they're like, well, you know, we'll
34:15
Speaker 2: figure this out, like, don't worry for right now. Why
34:17
Speaker 2: don't we think about dinner and then we'll come back
34:20
Speaker 2: to this later. So they've now distracted away from your discomfort,
34:23
Speaker 2: avoided it, skirted it, and you are left feeling unheard
34:27
Speaker 2: and unseen. The other way that avoidance typically shows up
34:31
Speaker 2: is through toxic positivity and emotional bypassing.
34:34
Speaker 1: That's the worst.
34:35
Speaker 2: That's the worst because people will come in and they'll
34:38
Speaker 2: say things like, oh, your dad has dementia. Oh I'm
34:41
Speaker 2: so sorry, don't worry, You're gonna get through it. Just
34:43
Speaker 2: don't stress right Like.
34:45
Speaker 1: At least whatever got cancer, right, Like, what, why would
34:50
Speaker 1: you ever say that? Right?
34:52
Speaker 2: But we say that, and it's okay. If you do this,
34:55
Speaker 2: just be aware of it and work on it because
34:57
Speaker 2: it is very invalidating to the other person's feelings and
35:01
Speaker 2: it makes them feel once again unseen and misunderstood. Then
35:05
Speaker 2: we have the connectors. So this sounds really good. It's like,
35:08
Speaker 2: I want to be a connector, except this is not
35:11
Speaker 2: one that we want to aim for. So the connectors
35:14
Speaker 2: are the ones where you share something with them. Let's
35:17
Speaker 2: take that same example. My dad has dementia and they
35:20
Speaker 2: say something along the lines of, oh my god, I
35:22
Speaker 2: totally get where you're coming from. My mom also had dementia,
35:26
Speaker 2: and here's how I dealt with it, and it was
35:28
Speaker 2: so stressful and I felt so overwhelmed. All of a sudden,
35:31
Speaker 2: the focus has now shifted from the person who originally
35:34
Speaker 2: needed support to the spotlight being on you as the
35:38
Speaker 2: person who's connected your experience to them. Sometimes this can
35:42
Speaker 2: land because people feel validated and less alone, but often
35:47
Speaker 2: they the person who's needing the support is actually falling
35:50
Speaker 2: into a caretaker role for you now, right, So it
35:54
Speaker 2: doesn't it doesn't always resonate with people, and we have
35:56
Speaker 2: to be really cautious of assuming that our experience is
36:00
Speaker 2: exactly like the other person's experience. Even if your mom
36:03
Speaker 2: and my dad had dementia, chances are their journeys were
36:06
Speaker 2: very different, right right. Okay, So then the last one
36:09
Speaker 2: is the one that is the gold standard, and that's
36:12
Speaker 2: going to be the explorers.
36:14
Speaker 1: Okay.
36:14
Speaker 2: These are the people who ask instead of assuming. They're
36:17
Speaker 2: the ones who are going to get really curious and
36:19
Speaker 2: say they'll deepen the conversation by asking, you know, tell
36:23
Speaker 2: me more about how XYZ is affecting you or what
36:26
Speaker 2: solutions have you tried thus far? Like what are your
36:28
Speaker 2: thoughts on blah blah blah? Right, Like, they're going to
36:32
Speaker 2: allow you to expound upon your feelings so that they
36:35
Speaker 2: can then better understand where you're coming from. They hold
36:38
Speaker 2: space for you, They are present with you. They don't
36:42
Speaker 2: try to move you through the emotions quickly. They are
36:45
Speaker 2: just right alongside you. And these are the people that
36:48
Speaker 2: we really want to become the ones who can manage
36:51
Speaker 2: our own discomfort in hard conversations, be with people instead
36:56
Speaker 2: of trying to fix them or move them through and
36:58
Speaker 2: to help them to feel really seen to feel felt
37:01
Speaker 2: in that moment with us.
37:04
Speaker 1: I appreciate you explaining that so clearly because in my experience,
37:09
Speaker 1: and I've done all of those things at various points,
37:12
Speaker 1: by the way, but which one is your go to? Can?
37:15
Speaker 1: I ask?
37:16
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I am the fixer for sure. For sure.
37:20
Speaker 2: Every time my husband is like blah blah blah's going
37:23
Speaker 2: on with work or is happening at home, I'm like, oh, well,
37:26
Speaker 2: you know you could try this. Why don't you give
37:30
Speaker 2: this a try. He's just like, stop, that's not what
37:32
Speaker 2: I want. That's not what I desire from you.
37:35
Speaker 1: Oh my god. No. As I was listening to you talk,
37:38
Speaker 1: I was like, connector right here, and I think, but
37:41
Speaker 1: you know what, can we just talk about the fact
37:43
Speaker 1: that I think those responses they're always like fueled by anxiety,
37:47
Speaker 1: aren't they Like a fixer is like, Okay, we're gonna
37:49
Speaker 1: fix it. I think a connector that my experience is
37:53
Speaker 1: like I need this person to know that they're not alone.
37:56
Speaker 1: And then I start talking about myself, and you know,
37:58
Speaker 1: to illustrate that although I can also so totally understand
38:01
Speaker 1: and I think I've also done this is in the
38:03
Speaker 1: presence of something really hard, really dark, my father is
38:09
Speaker 1: dying like that kind of thing. I think that there's
38:12
Speaker 1: this like, oh, I say, you know that comes up
38:16
Speaker 1: for people, well intentioned people, They literally don't know what
38:20
Speaker 1: to say. And I think from my experience, I worry
38:23
Speaker 1: about saying the wrong thing, like sensitive fact, like oh
38:27
Speaker 1: this is this is serious and I don't want to misstep,
38:32
Speaker 1: and then ironically, in our efforts to not do the
38:35
Speaker 1: wrong thing, you step right into that. So I really
38:38
Speaker 1: appreciate your laying out like what not to do, but
38:42
Speaker 1: also what to do instead, which is lean in it
38:46
Speaker 1: sounds like, and just start almost like start asking questions
38:51
Speaker 1: like open ended questions, invite the other person to tell
38:55
Speaker 1: you more. Is that? Would you summarize it that way?
38:57
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that,
39:01
Speaker 2: you know, if we can first start off by saying
39:03
Speaker 2: something along the lines of I'm so sorry that you're
39:05
Speaker 2: going through that, like that's just is absolutely devastating, and
39:09
Speaker 2: it makes complete sense to me that this is an
39:11
Speaker 2: incredibly overwhelming, helpless experience for you. Right, So that's that
39:16
Speaker 2: normalization and validation right off the bat. We're disarming the
39:19
Speaker 2: other person and we're helping them to feel really understood
39:22
Speaker 2: by us without us making it about who about our experiences, right,
39:27
Speaker 2: and then we can move into so you know, share
39:29
Speaker 2: more with me. You know what's been the hardest part
39:31
Speaker 2: for you so far navigating all of this? What kinds
39:34
Speaker 2: of supports have been you know, helpful for you thus far?
39:38
Speaker 2: Is there anything that I can do that might be
39:40
Speaker 2: helpful for you? Right? Like, those types of questions really
39:44
Speaker 2: open up the door for deeper connection and better attunement
39:48
Speaker 2: between the two of us. Right, And I think to
39:51
Speaker 2: your point, we get so caught up in what to
39:54
Speaker 2: say and how to say it that we miss the mark. Yeah,
39:58
Speaker 2: and often what people need this should be maybe a
40:00
Speaker 2: relief to people listening is often what people need is
40:03
Speaker 2: not the right words. They just need you and your presence.
40:08
Speaker 2: They just simply need you to be with them, and
40:11
Speaker 2: that is it. And so we can just master being
40:13
Speaker 2: able to manage that and show up and ask good
40:16
Speaker 2: questions and you know, meet them where they are. That's
40:20
Speaker 2: that's all anybody ever asks of us.
40:22
Speaker 1: Okay, So now I'm also going to speak for somebody
40:25
Speaker 1: who's who's here in this conversation with us, one of
40:28
Speaker 1: our imaginary friends who I think we can all agree,
40:33
Speaker 1: probably likes it very much. Would other people take that
40:36
Speaker 1: approach with us? Right? But I'm imagining people listening to
40:41
Speaker 1: this right now who might be having even more reflective
40:44
Speaker 1: anxiety at the idea intentionally walking into these dark emotions
40:51
Speaker 1: more deeply with another person, because chances are if you
40:56
Speaker 1: have a friend going through something like that and you're saying,
40:59
Speaker 1: mean power question right there, what's been the hardest part
41:03
Speaker 1: about this for you? Tears ensue. And I think that
41:08
Speaker 1: many people feel frightened at the thought of dark emotions
41:12
Speaker 1: or that they're pushing somebody else into contact with these feelings,
41:15
Speaker 1: that that would be harmful negative we should avoid that,
41:18
Speaker 1: like dark emotions are a bad thing that we should
41:22
Speaker 1: try to stay away from. And what you're saying is like, oh, no,
41:25
Speaker 1: we need to that's where we're going, right. So for
41:29
Speaker 1: somebody who's like, I don't know about this, what do
41:31
Speaker 1: you say that?
41:32
Speaker 2: The thing to keep in mind is that those dark
41:34
Speaker 2: emotions exist whether you bring whether you bring them up
41:37
Speaker 2: or not, they are there within this person. And often
41:41
Speaker 2: it's a huge relief when somebody asked that question, so
41:45
Speaker 2: that they can truly be seen in the experience, right,
41:48
Speaker 2: Because so many people in our lives are avoidant, like
41:51
Speaker 2: we just want to jump, like skirt right past it. Right,
41:54
Speaker 2: That is not helpful to a lot of people. Now,
41:57
Speaker 2: I will say part of the tuning is that recognizing
42:00
Speaker 2: that not everybody is going to want to be vulnerable
42:03
Speaker 2: and share. So you adapted accordingly. You don't you don't
42:06
Speaker 2: force it. If you ask what's been the hardest part
42:08
Speaker 2: and they just kind of skate by it, that's okay,
42:11
Speaker 2: leave it and of it. Let it exactly. They will
42:13
Speaker 2: come back to you when they are ready to talk
42:16
Speaker 2: about it, right, But you can still ask other questions
42:19
Speaker 2: about supports and you know, ways that they're navigating it,
42:23
Speaker 2: and you know, things that are a little bit less
42:26
Speaker 2: deep that are still impactful and are not cursory in
42:29
Speaker 2: the conversation. So, you know, and I think that if
42:32
Speaker 2: we just recognize that people also have agency and so
42:37
Speaker 2: if they want to say no to answering a question,
42:39
Speaker 2: they're an adult and they will do that.
42:41
Speaker 1: Right.
42:42
Speaker 2: We don't have to bubble wrap people and try to
42:44
Speaker 2: protect them from their own feelings.
42:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, And you know what, that's even something
42:50
Speaker 1: that I'm going to remember because you know, as you're
42:52
Speaker 1: talking I'm thinking about the Oh, I'm going to mess
42:55
Speaker 1: up the number? Is it a hundred questions? I can't
42:57
Speaker 1: remember that. There has been research that's shown that if
43:01
Speaker 1: you put strangers together and they are presented with a
43:04
Speaker 1: list of questions to ask each other, that really invite
43:08
Speaker 1: the other person to go into deeper conversation about how
43:12
Speaker 1: they're really feeling and some of the dark emotions and
43:15
Speaker 1: harder parts. It actually creates these feelings of connection, bondedness,
43:20
Speaker 1: intimacy even among strangers. And so to be doing this
43:24
Speaker 1: in an intentional way with people that you know that
43:26
Speaker 1: you care about, I mean, that's really powerful stuff. And
43:29
Speaker 1: so there's so much legitimacy there. But I think sometimes
43:32
Speaker 1: I personally can relate to what you were talking about,
43:36
Speaker 1: like the bubble wrapping people a little bit. And also
43:40
Speaker 1: sometimes this is probably an occupational hazard, but like, as
43:44
Speaker 1: a therapist, go there all day long. It's great. But
43:48
Speaker 1: I think sometimes in personal relationships, I'm like, oh, wait,
43:51
Speaker 1: am I acting like a therapist right now? If I
43:53
Speaker 1: ask this question? And so like sometimes don't know where
43:56
Speaker 1: the boundaries should be. Is that probably err on the
43:58
Speaker 1: side of like yeah, and to ask that, right, how
44:02
Speaker 1: have you navigated that in your own life because you're
44:04
Speaker 1: also a therapist. You're talking about these things, but like,
44:08
Speaker 1: or do you just not think about it? You're like,
44:10
Speaker 1: people can decide what they want to talk to me
44:11
Speaker 1: about or not.
44:12
Speaker 2: Now I do think about it. I think about it
44:14
Speaker 2: all the time, especially when it comes to my family.
44:16
Speaker 2: I have to be really cognizant of crossing boundaries from
44:20
Speaker 2: an ethical standpoint. I'm like, yeah, I'm not. I'm not
44:22
Speaker 2: your therapist, right, Like, I have to be cautious about that,
44:26
Speaker 2: and so I recognize where I end and where they begin. Yeah,
44:29
Speaker 2: that's been a huge mindset shift. I think for me
44:32
Speaker 2: that can be applied even to people that are not therapists,
44:35
Speaker 2: is you know, okay, So I can be there and
44:37
Speaker 2: I can listen, and I can be a good support
44:39
Speaker 2: in that sense, but I have to understand that they're
44:42
Speaker 2: still going to make their own choices. They're still going
44:44
Speaker 2: to make their own decisions. I am not even as
44:46
Speaker 2: a therapist. I don't necessarily give people advice, right, It's
44:51
Speaker 2: more so asking the right questions to bring them to
44:54
Speaker 2: their own conclusions, which is far more powerful than me
44:57
Speaker 2: dictating what the best path forward is. Right, And I
45:00
Speaker 2: think that you can apply that in your personal life
45:02
Speaker 2: without it crossing a boundary, right, Like, just by asking people,
45:06
Speaker 2: Like if somebody comes to you and is like, I'm
45:09
Speaker 2: thinking about breaking up with my partner and I don't
45:11
Speaker 2: know what to do, you could say, well, he's a
45:14
Speaker 2: jerk and you should totally break up with him, right,
45:17
Speaker 2: which you know you will get some defensiveness more than
45:19
Speaker 2: likely because people don't like to be told what to do.
45:22
Speaker 2: Or you could ask some questions like, Okay, so what
45:23
Speaker 2: are you thinking about, like the situation, it sounds like
45:26
Speaker 2: you're on the fence. What would make you lean towards
45:29
Speaker 2: breaking up with him versus not right? What have you
45:31
Speaker 2: considered would be the aftermath of this. Is this a
45:34
Speaker 2: relationship that you see long term like longevity with or
45:38
Speaker 2: is this something that you're seeing as like more of
45:39
Speaker 2: a flash in the pan and you're ready to move on?
45:42
Speaker 1: Right?
45:42
Speaker 2: Like, So even there, it's like you can ask some
45:44
Speaker 2: questions that aren't necessarily diving into somebody's trauma, you know,
45:49
Speaker 2: totally right.
45:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that that explorer I did just you know,
45:52
Speaker 1: open the door wider, be curious. Oh this is so good. Okay, listen,
45:57
Speaker 1: we need to take one more quick break, And though
46:00
Speaker 1: on the other side of that, you've been doing such
46:03
Speaker 1: a beautiful job of helping us understand like how we
46:06
Speaker 1: all need to be in order to do a better
46:09
Speaker 1: job of creating this kind of a tuned connection. But
46:13
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts. If you're in a
46:15
Speaker 1: relationship and you're trying to do these things and would
46:19
Speaker 1: like other people in your life to be operating in
46:22
Speaker 1: this way with you, how we can start to create
46:24
Speaker 1: some of that positive change. Can we talk about that
46:27
Speaker 1: on the other side, For sure, you've heard me talk
46:41
Speaker 1: on this show about the research showing that ketogenic protocols
46:45
Speaker 1: support not just physical health, but mental and emotional wellness
46:49
Speaker 1: as well. Go back through my feed for these episodes.
46:53
Speaker 1: Episodic fasting a couple times a year is now part
46:56
Speaker 1: of my own personal self care plan, and I know
47:00
Speaker 1: firsthand how hard it can be to do this, which
47:03
Speaker 1: is why I was so glad to find Prolon. If
47:07
Speaker 1: you want to look and feel your best this summer,
47:10
Speaker 1: don't just think skin deep, think sell deep. Prolon's five
47:14
Speaker 1: day fasting mimicking diet kickstarts your body's natural ability to
47:18
Speaker 1: renew and rejuvenates you from within. It was developed with
47:22
Speaker 1: USC's Longevity Institute and is backed by decades of scientific
47:27
Speaker 1: research and clinically shown to stimulate the process of cellular cleanup,
47:31
Speaker 1: to reset your metabolism, lose fat, protect lean muscle mass,
47:36
Speaker 1: and more. If you're ready for your own summer reset.
47:39
Speaker 1: For a limited time, Prolon is offering love, Happiness and
47:42
Speaker 1: Success listeners fifteen percent off site wide, plus a forty
47:46
Speaker 1: dollars bonus gift when you subscribe to their five day program.
47:50
Speaker 1: Just visit prolonlife dot com, slash LHS, p R O
47:54
Speaker 1: L O N L I f E dot com slash
47:57
Speaker 1: lhs to claim your fifteen percent off Justice count Andrew
48:00
Speaker 1: bonus gift prol onlife dot com slash lahs. I get
48:16
Speaker 1: so many compliments on the audio production of this podcast,
48:21
Speaker 1: and I found my audio editor on upwork. His name
48:26
Speaker 1: is Mark. He's amazing. In fact, I've found all kinds
48:29
Speaker 1: of amazing people on upwork. I've used it for years
48:32
Speaker 1: and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Thousands of growing
48:36
Speaker 1: businesses already trust upwork to find flexible, high quality freelance
48:40
Speaker 1: help from one off projects to ongoing support, and it
48:44
Speaker 1: is easy and free to sign up start posting jobs
48:49
Speaker 1: and connecting with the perfect person. Visit upwork dot com
48:53
Speaker 1: right now post your job for free. That is upwork
48:55
Speaker 1: dot com to connect with top talent ready to help
48:59
Speaker 1: your business grow upwork dot com. All right, so before
49:11
Speaker 1: the break, you are sharing some fantastic advice around how
49:15
Speaker 1: to get visibility into the things that we can all
49:18
Speaker 1: reflexively do that can get in the way of attunement,
49:20
Speaker 1: and what to do differently. But you know, there are
49:23
Speaker 1: so many people listening to this right now, and I
49:25
Speaker 1: think we've all experienced this. I certainly have where we're
49:29
Speaker 1: that person that needs some attunement and we have people
49:34
Speaker 1: in our lives responding to us in these ways that
49:37
Speaker 1: create disconnection. It can be frustrating, it can be hurtful.
49:41
Speaker 1: Maybe we have people trying to fix us or people
49:44
Speaker 1: glossing over these moments when we really do need to
49:47
Speaker 1: talk about our feelings. How can we broach that in
49:52
Speaker 1: a way that doesn't just wind up a listening defensiveness
49:56
Speaker 1: and more avoidance or anxiety.
50:00
Speaker 2: I think it's so important to recognize whether we are
50:03
Speaker 2: actually asking for what we need or are we expecting
50:07
Speaker 2: other people to mind read. Because this is something that
50:10
Speaker 2: I personally have experienced in my marriage, have been with
50:12
Speaker 2: my husband for We've been together for twenty years, married
50:15
Speaker 2: for going on nine now, and there are so many
50:19
Speaker 2: times where, at least early in our relationship, I would
50:22
Speaker 2: get so upset with him for not being attuned to me.
50:25
Speaker 2: I was like, I said that I'm fine. That doesn't
50:28
Speaker 2: mean you just walk off and you give me.
50:30
Speaker 1: He doesn't mean I'm fine.
50:32
Speaker 3: Doing exactly like that's don't take me at face value, right,
50:39
Speaker 3: And I think so many of us have done that before, right,
50:42
Speaker 3: And so I had to recognize that what I was
50:45
Speaker 3: doing was expecting him to mind read.
50:46
Speaker 2: He does take me at face value. Yeah, I say
50:49
Speaker 2: that I need something, He's going to give it to
50:51
Speaker 2: me because he trusts that what I say is what
50:53
Speaker 2: I desire. And I had to learn that I was
50:56
Speaker 2: expecting him to mind read when I said I'm fine.
50:59
Speaker 2: That really I was expecting for him to read between
51:01
Speaker 2: the lines was she's not actually fine, Sit with her,
51:05
Speaker 2: rubber her back, check in in maybe ten fifteen minutes,
51:08
Speaker 2: keep the conversation going. But I never explicitly asked for that.
51:12
Speaker 2: So that is like the first little bit of work
51:15
Speaker 2: for us to do personally is our one. That one is,
51:20
Speaker 2: are you actually far.
51:22
Speaker 1: In words now? And this is so good because you
51:25
Speaker 1: know what, like I so my background, I'm a marriage
51:27
Speaker 1: and family therapist and my other things and do a
51:29
Speaker 1: lot of couples counseling. And it's so amazing how many
51:32
Speaker 1: people well have those kinds of experiences but also believe
51:38
Speaker 1: that they are showing their partner the truth through their behaviors,
51:43
Speaker 1: that in their minds they are communicating non verbally in
51:48
Speaker 1: ways that feel very clear to them, that are not
51:51
Speaker 1: at all picked up on by their partners. And it's
51:54
Speaker 1: really like genuinely a surprise because frequently in my experience,
51:59
Speaker 1: you know, we all come from cultures, right, the culture
52:01
Speaker 1: of our family of origin is that maybe that's how
52:03
Speaker 1: communication was expressed and received in that particular environment. But
52:08
Speaker 1: then you try to do it with somebody who's like
52:10
Speaker 1: not hipped to the THO lingo and they don't know
52:12
Speaker 1: what's going on. So that is such good advice.
52:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think if you can know how like
52:18
Speaker 2: what the upbringing was of your partner, that is hugely
52:22
Speaker 2: influential in how we engage with one another as well.
52:24
Speaker 2: So the classic pairing, I'm sure that you're familiar with
52:27
Speaker 2: is people that have an anxious attachment connecting with somebody
52:30
Speaker 2: who has an avoidant attachment. So when you have an
52:33
Speaker 2: anxious attachment, you grew up with a caregiver who was anxious,
52:36
Speaker 2: kind of helicoptery, you became anxious as a result of that,
52:40
Speaker 2: or they were kind of unpredictable, so you developed anxiety
52:42
Speaker 2: not knowing how they were going to respond to you.
52:45
Speaker 2: And then the avoidant person is the one who just
52:47
Speaker 2: completely sweeps things under the rug. It's like, I'll get
52:50
Speaker 2: over it, just give me some time, and it's never
52:52
Speaker 2: spoken about again. And so the dynamic that plays out
52:55
Speaker 2: here is that the avoidant person, based off of their
52:58
Speaker 2: models growing up, is like, if I just wait long enough,
53:01
Speaker 2: it'll blow over and we'll get back to status quo,
53:03
Speaker 2: Like we'll hit equilibrium again. All is good. But then
53:07
Speaker 2: the anxious person is like, I need to resolve this
53:09
Speaker 2: issue because I don't know where we stand, and like,
53:12
Speaker 2: if you don't communicate with me, then how am I
53:14
Speaker 2: going to know that we're okay and that you're not
53:16
Speaker 2: going to leave me? And I won't be abandoned in
53:18
Speaker 2: this process. And so it's a painful back and forth
53:22
Speaker 2: that happens. So if you recognize that your partner's tendency
53:27
Speaker 2: is to be anxious, for example, what you need to
53:30
Speaker 2: do in that moment is provide reassurance to maybe communicate
53:34
Speaker 2: to your partner like, Hey, we're hitting a roadblock in
53:36
Speaker 2: our discussion right now, but I really want to come
53:39
Speaker 2: back to this, So why don't we take a break
53:41
Speaker 2: thirty to forty five minutes. I'm going to go for
53:43
Speaker 2: a run. I'll be back and then we'll sit down
53:45
Speaker 2: and talk about it. Just putting those guardrails around the
53:48
Speaker 2: communication helps to diffuse some of that anxiety that the
53:52
Speaker 2: ink the person with anxious attachment is going to feel,
53:55
Speaker 2: because now they know that you're not leaving as a
53:58
Speaker 2: form of pushing them away or a ding them, that
54:01
Speaker 2: you're leaving and stepping away as a form of love
54:04
Speaker 2: as a boundary to ensure that the conversation comes to
54:07
Speaker 2: a point of resolution. So just even understanding the backgrounds
54:11
Speaker 2: of your partner and what their upbringing was like, and
54:14
Speaker 2: what their styles of attachment and the way that they
54:16
Speaker 2: connect with people what those are, is just massively important.
54:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, well then there's a curiosity again, like this is
54:24
Speaker 1: hard for you to let go of right now, tell
54:26
Speaker 1: me more about what's coming up for you? Is that
54:29
Speaker 1: way of leaning in? But again, if you are hoping
54:32
Speaker 1: to have that kind of response from your partner and
54:36
Speaker 1: they are persistently engaging and maybe avoided behaviors, or they're
54:40
Speaker 1: hijacking the conversation, or they're being toxically positive or fixing
54:46
Speaker 1: right again, how maybe you have an example of this
54:51
Speaker 1: in your own life. How to skillfully broach that conversation
54:57
Speaker 1: so that it turns into just an honest discussion of
55:02
Speaker 1: I'd love to feel closer and more connected to you.
55:06
Speaker 1: The times I do are when we do this together,
55:10
Speaker 1: or you know, if I'm not okay and you respond
55:13
Speaker 1: to me in this way, that feels really good for me,
55:16
Speaker 1: versus when this happens, it feels like I can't talk
55:19
Speaker 1: to you at all. How would you start that? I mean,
55:22
Speaker 1: you've done so much work in this area def insights.
55:26
Speaker 2: I think that it's important to be able to recognize
55:29
Speaker 2: the strengths and what they're doing. Well, I think you
55:31
Speaker 2: hit the nail on the head there, because we respond
55:34
Speaker 2: so much better to positive affirmation and positive reinforcement. Right
55:38
Speaker 2: then pointing out, well, you never do this and you
55:41
Speaker 2: make me feel really unseen and unheard and all of that. Right,
55:44
Speaker 2: So if instead we can point to moments where you
55:46
Speaker 2: do feel felt like you feel seen by your partner, like, hey, Han,
55:51
Speaker 2: I really appreciate when you just sit with me and
55:53
Speaker 2: you rub my back, like that helps me to feel
55:55
Speaker 2: connected even in a moment where I'm not ready to talk.
55:58
Speaker 2: If we can have that more, I feel like that
56:00
Speaker 2: would deepen our relationship even further. Right, And so you're
56:04
Speaker 2: drawing attention to what they're doing well, and perhaps you
56:06
Speaker 2: can even identify you know, sometimes this behavior, this is
56:10
Speaker 2: the key distinction. The thing that you're doing is the
56:13
Speaker 2: thing that's creating disconnection, not you as a person is
56:17
Speaker 2: who I feel disconnected from. So I might say something
56:20
Speaker 2: along the lines of, you know, when you jump in
56:21
Speaker 2: to try and offer solutions, I know it's coming from
56:24
Speaker 2: a really good place because you care about me and
56:26
Speaker 2: you don't like seeing me struggle. But what I really
56:29
Speaker 2: need in that moment is to just maybe have you
56:32
Speaker 2: sit with me, ask some questions, let me vent before
56:36
Speaker 2: we get to this place of solutions, and maybe eventually
56:38
Speaker 2: I'll get there. I just need some time. Right, So
56:42
Speaker 2: something like that is not pointing fingers. It's not saying
56:45
Speaker 2: you're a terrible partner. It's not saying that you're horrible
56:49
Speaker 2: at listening to me. You're instead pointing out a specific
56:52
Speaker 2: behavior that you feel is creating disconnection, and you're offering
56:57
Speaker 2: what an alternative might be for them to to utilize
57:01
Speaker 2: with you. Right, you're giving them a solution there that
57:04
Speaker 2: will help to point them in the right direction.
57:06
Speaker 1: Such good advice. But I Massa is thinking about one
57:09
Speaker 1: of the things that you said at the beginning of
57:11
Speaker 1: our conversation about the importance of being able to regulate yourself,
57:17
Speaker 1: because you know, thinking about my own experiences about so
57:20
Speaker 1: many clients, is like, when hurtful things happen in the
57:24
Speaker 1: moment and we have big feelings, you feel hurt, you
57:27
Speaker 1: feel frustrated, you feel disappointed. It's so easy to just
57:31
Speaker 1: reflexively like talk from that place and what you're talking about.
57:36
Speaker 1: It really requires a little perspective and distance sometimes to
57:42
Speaker 1: calm down, figure out like what do I really need
57:47
Speaker 1: right now? How do I start with the strengths. It's like,
57:52
Speaker 1: you have to be calm in order to be able
57:54
Speaker 1: to do that, and I know that that's a big
57:57
Speaker 1: part of what you do in your book and in
57:59
Speaker 1: your work, is that like first section, all right, how
58:03
Speaker 1: to get yourself under control so that you can engage
58:06
Speaker 1: that way?
58:06
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think it's you know, part of it is
58:10
Speaker 2: taking the space to notice how the past is connecting
58:13
Speaker 2: to the present. Right, So this interaction you're having with
58:16
Speaker 2: your your partner, with your sibling, or whoever it is
58:19
Speaker 2: that is your loved one, is not just being informed
58:23
Speaker 2: by this moment, right, that our earlier experiences are feelings
58:27
Speaker 2: of disconnection, the moments where people have pushed past our
58:30
Speaker 2: emotions flood us in those moments within the present day.
58:35
Speaker 2: So we just need to pause for a second. And
58:37
Speaker 2: if we can, if we can just name what's happening,
58:40
Speaker 2: then we can tame it, right, name it and tame it.
58:43
Speaker 2: And I think that that's such an important piece of it.
58:45
Speaker 2: And regulating our nervous system. We cannot be connected when
58:49
Speaker 2: we're in a disregulated state, so you will not be
58:52
Speaker 2: speaking from your best self when you're in this like episode.
58:57
Speaker 2: Way to put it, yeah, right, that's a nice kind
58:59
Speaker 2: way to say, we're dropping the ball a little bit
59:02
Speaker 2: in our communication when we are in this like up
59:05
Speaker 2: in arms, angry, anxious, frustrated, state, So calm yourself down
59:09
Speaker 2: first and foremost, and then reapproach the conversation from that
59:12
Speaker 2: steadier standpoint.
59:15
Speaker 1: Such good advice, Well, Meethi Taora, this has been such
59:19
Speaker 1: an interesting and insightful conversation. I know we're out of time,
59:23
Speaker 1: but I love it. If you wouldn't mind just sharing
59:25
Speaker 1: with our listeners where to learn more about you, your work,
59:29
Speaker 1: your book? What should they know?
59:31
Speaker 2: My website is Nitthiitari dot com is my first name,
59:34
Speaker 2: last name dot com. You can see my speaking offerings
59:38
Speaker 2: and my book. You can order it there. I'm on
59:40
Speaker 2: all the social media platforms so TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn. My
59:45
Speaker 2: handle is at Nidi TAILCSW, Licensed Clinical Social Worker LCSW,
59:51
Speaker 2: and my book is coming out March twenty fourth, so
59:54
Speaker 2: a month away, and you can order that either through
59:57
Speaker 2: the Penguin Random House website or any retailer that sells
1:00:00
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
1:00:16
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for spending this time with me,
1:00:18
Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll have a chance to talk again. Keep
1:00:20
Speaker 1: me posted as to what you're up to. That was
1:00:31
Speaker 1: such a fascinating conversation I really enjoyed doing. My guests
1:00:36
Speaker 1: did a deep dive into this different way of being
1:00:39
Speaker 1: in contact with other people that is so deeply attuned.
1:00:43
Speaker 1: It's curious, it's open, it's receptive. And I think just
1:00:48
Speaker 1: listening to everything she shared, I think we can all
1:00:50
Speaker 1: understand half we've practiced that intentionally. It becomes so much easier.
1:00:55
Speaker 1: I mean, think about how much conflict just dissolves when
1:00:58
Speaker 1: there is agreement and an openness and a willing to listen.
1:01:04
Speaker 1: And the other thing that was coming up for me
1:01:09
Speaker 1: is that as a marriage counselor you know, it is
1:01:12
Speaker 1: a big part of my practice, what I do often
1:01:16
Speaker 1: see is that when couples in particular have been in
1:01:22
Speaker 1: a negative relational cycle, when there has been conflict, especially
1:01:29
Speaker 1: over a long period of time, and when attunement hasn't
1:01:33
Speaker 1: been happening on one side or sometimes both sides, it
1:01:38
Speaker 1: can begin to erode. Not just trust, as in a
1:01:43
Speaker 1: trust of the good intentions of another person, trust of
1:01:48
Speaker 1: being heard and understood, trust of having there be responsiveness,
1:01:53
Speaker 1: but it can also begin to erode goodwill. It starts
1:01:59
Speaker 1: to feel difficult to operate in a spirit of openness, generosity,
1:02:07
Speaker 1: a willingness to listen. If you've been in a relationship
1:02:12
Speaker 1: sometimes for years where it feels like you're not getting
1:02:16
Speaker 1: that from your partner. That's when this can feel really
1:02:20
Speaker 1: hard to practice, not impossible, but in my experience, many
1:02:25
Speaker 1: people require support to come back in and try to
1:02:31
Speaker 1: have that be different, and that is when working with
1:02:35
Speaker 1: a competent relationship expert can make all the difference, especially
1:02:41
Speaker 1: if you're in relationship patterns that are feeling kind of
1:02:44
Speaker 1: entrenched because they really do take on a life of
1:02:47
Speaker 1: their own. So to get this type of support, I
1:02:50
Speaker 1: would very specifically recommend that you look for a licensed
1:02:55
Speaker 1: marriage and family therapist that has deep specialized training and
1:03:00
Speaker 1: expertise in systemic dynamics, emotional connection, attachment, yes, attunement, but
1:03:08
Speaker 1: also communication skills and ways of being with each other
1:03:12
Speaker 1: that can begin to repair some damage that's been done
1:03:15
Speaker 1: over time from the lack of attunement. Ideally, you'll look
1:03:20
Speaker 1: for a marriage and family therapist who does more than treatment. Remember,
1:03:26
Speaker 1: systemic family therapy is a very powerful treatment modality for
1:03:30
Speaker 1: a lot of things, including anxiety, depression, trauma. But if
1:03:34
Speaker 1: that's not why you're there, you would be very well
1:03:37
Speaker 1: served by working with an MFT who specializes in relational
1:03:43
Speaker 1: coaching competencies, which is more than about talking about how
1:03:49
Speaker 1: we feel and what our hopes are and you know,
1:03:51
Speaker 1: saying nice things to each other. It really explores what
1:03:55
Speaker 1: the skills gaps are for both of you, what the
1:03:58
Speaker 1: strengths are, certainly, and also what are the motivations you
1:04:02
Speaker 1: each have for working on a relationship for the purpose
1:04:05
Speaker 1: of making it better, but also taking a real clear
1:04:09
Speaker 1: look at what are you each doing that's maybe not
1:04:13
Speaker 1: working very well, Like what does lack of attunement in
1:04:17
Speaker 1: your relationship look like? Not for the purpose of being
1:04:20
Speaker 1: critical or shaming, but to bring visibility into those moments
1:04:23
Speaker 1: when you or your partner are responding to each other
1:04:27
Speaker 1: in a way that obstructs the kind of closeness and
1:04:30
Speaker 1: connection that you really want to have. So then with
1:04:33
Speaker 1: that clarity and that understanding, we can begin to teach
1:04:37
Speaker 1: new ways of being Like so, when this happens, try
1:04:42
Speaker 1: that instead, and then go forth and practice it. Because remember,
1:04:47
Speaker 1: the heart of coaching competencies is not just about saying
1:04:50
Speaker 1: things out loud with therapists like me. It's about then
1:04:54
Speaker 1: what do you do with that outside of those sessions,
1:04:58
Speaker 1: and then over time using se to develop and increase
1:05:02
Speaker 1: new skills. Talk about like how that went and what
1:05:05
Speaker 1: did we learn from it. It's not just about insight,
1:05:09
Speaker 1: that's part of it, but it's how we put insight
1:05:11
Speaker 1: into action. And so if that type of approach appeals
1:05:15
Speaker 1: to you, that is what the clinicians in my network
1:05:18
Speaker 1: at growing self actually do. They're not just licensed marriage
1:05:21
Speaker 1: and family therapists. They also have coaching competencies that most
1:05:26
Speaker 1: therapists don't, and so it feels pretty different. It is
1:05:30
Speaker 1: certainly deep, insightful, powerful. We have magical moments, people connect
1:05:35
Speaker 1: with feelings, they eat and cry. But then it is
1:05:38
Speaker 1: what do we do with that? And if that sounds
1:05:40
Speaker 1: like the kind of experience you're looking for, it's so
1:05:42
Speaker 1: easy to get started. Come to growingsoft dot com and
1:05:46
Speaker 1: just request a free consultation. You can meet someone or
1:05:50
Speaker 1: check it out, see if it looks like a good fit,
1:05:52
Speaker 1: and if it does, be on your way to creating
1:05:54
Speaker 1: positive change in your relationship. So thank you so much
1:05:58
Speaker 1: for spending this time with me today. I enjoyed this topic.
1:06:02
Speaker 1: I hope we can reconnect with my guests again in
1:06:04
Speaker 1: the future, and I'm so glad to bring it to you.
1:06:07
Speaker 1: I'll be back in touch again very soon with another
1:06:09
Speaker 1: episode of Love Happiness and success. And in the meantime,
1:06:12
Speaker 1: I hope you take good care and challenge yourself to
1:06:15
Speaker 1: practice even one of the things you learned about today.
1:06:19
Speaker 1: I know I'm going to all right, talk to you
1:06:21
Speaker 1: later