Latest / The Bow Disciples Podcast / Heavy Arrows & Shot IQ with Paige Pearce

Transcript

Heavy Arrows & Shot IQ with Paige Pearce · The Bow Disciples Podcast

• 0:00
  That's seen from Dirty Dirty Grandpa.
• 0:03
  Oh, great movie. We love crack Bad Grandpa, dude.
• 0:07
  Yeah, well, here we are. We're podding in Red Bluff.
• 0:16
  What do you think of Red Bluff? I already tell you that I don't
• 0:20
  like this passing from Red Bluff is It is.
• 0:26
  It's nice, it's quaint. It's, you know, it's like, you
• 0:30
  know, like I like the nice rural towns.
• 0:33
  Unfortunately, it is still located in California, which
• 0:37
  comes with a quite a bit of homeless, you know, and I know I
• 0:42
  always say the most outrageous things on the channel, so I'll
• 0:44
  just leave it at that and I won't comment about my feelings
• 0:47
  about them. But other than that, it's a very
• 0:50
  cute. You don't have to give my long
• 0:52
  spiel in the beginning. I've really talked a lot.
• 0:56
  It's a nice, quaint town, which I do enjoy more than the city
• 1:00
  life. I'm not a city life person.
• 1:03
  I already heard about like catching raccoons out of
• 1:06
  blankets, which sounds right up my alley.
• 1:08
  You know I want to go shake a raccoon out of a tree and catch
• 1:12
  it in a tarp. Do the mic pass.
• 1:15
  I like this mic pass. So I saw someone else do it and
• 1:17
  it made me want to do it. But we got Page and Tate on the
• 1:21
  pod. We don't normally do gas either,
• 1:23
  so this is exciting. How's it feel to have us up
• 1:25
  here? It's pretty fun trying to work
• 1:28
  this. It is awkward.
• 1:30
  I don't think I like it so. We're committed, We're
• 1:33
  committed. We're going to do it not.
• 1:34
  Really, we could set it down at. Any no like we.
• 1:36
  Can put it on a straw. We got to do it.
• 1:39
  Yeah, just put it on my drink. Yeah, trying to fit this in our
• 1:42
  schedules was not easy, but we finally pulled it off, so that
• 1:45
  part's good. I wanted.
• 1:46
  To talk right there and I couldn't.
• 1:48
  Talk Do you want to restart? And we'll put an arrow in
• 1:50
  between us so we could do that with the.
• 1:51
  Feel like it's just better I don't.
• 1:53
  Do you want to we just like do? This is.
• 1:55
  Is that like? It'll, it'll be good enough,
• 1:57
  yeah. I think over here it's fine.
• 1:59
  It'll be fine now, just a little, all right, Not the
• 2:03
  smoothest start to a pod, but they never are.
• 2:06
  But it's been fun. Yes, the scheduling was a
• 2:09
  disaster, There's no question because your schedule and my
• 2:13
  schedule, all of our schedules are equally messed up in
• 2:16
  different ways. So I think we first started
• 2:18
  talking about this like right months.
• 2:20
  And months. Yeah, it.
• 2:21
  Was it was right after I went on Cam's podcast is when it like
• 2:24
  took off that we were going to do it.
• 2:26
  And that was in October, yeah. It's been that long.
• 2:28
  Yeah, we all live in the dysfunction.
• 2:30
  Yeah, we thrive on the. Pretty much.
• 2:33
  Especially her. Which is why I think that we're
• 2:35
  an interesting group to talk because YouTube plus me and
• 2:41
  Brianna as my employee essentially we all work in
• 2:45
  archery and hunting and you probably have for the longest
• 2:47
  with like working in a shop and all the different stuff.
• 2:50
  Yeah, quite a while. And now you've done like 3
• 2:52
  different roles. I've really only done one as the
• 2:55
  the resident influencer and then we got the professional.
• 2:58
  So like how what? Oh, you've done shop pro Rep,
• 3:04
  right? Essentially.
• 3:05
  Am I missing any? No, no.
• 3:07
  It's cool to be able to see like all sides of the industry from
• 3:11
  being behind the counter, working with the guys that come
• 3:15
  in that are doing the things that we love to do every day out
• 3:18
  there. Shooting their bows, going
• 3:19
  hunting, things like that. Working on bows, teaching people
• 3:22
  things, making people more proficient in shooting a bow and
• 3:26
  things like that. And then being able to travel
• 3:28
  the world, which I've been to so many places now that I would
• 3:31
  have never expected ever to go to.
• 3:33
  Like I would have never went to China or Thailand or a lot of
• 3:37
  the parts in Europe I've been to, like South America, like I
• 3:40
  probably would have went to Canada.
• 3:41
  And that's about it. Maybe to go hunting or fishing
• 3:43
  or something like that, but outside of North America, like
• 3:46
  really no desire to go anywhere else.
• 3:49
  And then archery is let me go places and experience things
• 3:53
  that I would have never got to do otherwise.
• 3:54
  So that's really cool. Met a lot of really cool people
• 3:58
  through archery that obviously would have never met otherwise.
• 4:02
  So that's kind of created some like lifelong friendships, which
• 4:05
  are really cool to look back on and.
• 4:07
  Transitioning to repping. And then being able to
• 4:09
  transition to the Rep life, it's like now I get to see that side
• 4:14
  of the industry selling a little bit more on like the backside of
• 4:18
  like the company side of things with building product and
• 4:21
  talking through and be like sitting in a meeting with a
• 4:23
  bunch of guys like, hey, what do we want to bring to the table
• 4:26
  for the consumers for the following year?
• 4:28
  Rather than just being stuck with whatever those guys in that
• 4:31
  room created before me. Now I can be part of that
• 4:34
  process. So that's cool.
• 4:36
  And then also knowing like the day-to-day struggles that the
• 4:40
  shop owners and employees deal with on a day-to-day basis like
• 4:43
  that, I think that makes my job a little bit easier because I
• 4:45
  already know what they go through and like kind of how the
• 4:48
  shop side of things work. Being able to help them do make
• 4:52
  their life easier now. You relate to them where you've
• 4:55
  never done it before. It's hard to.
• 4:57
  Yeah, that makes sense. So of the three jobs that you've
• 5:00
  kind of done, like the three main ones, which would you say
• 5:02
  is your favorite role? Is it being the shooter, is it
• 5:05
  being the shop guy or is it Rep or kind of each one there was
• 5:09
  something that you like the best and worst.
• 5:10
  But I guess overall, what would you which would be your
• 5:13
  favorite? I think if you'd have asked me
• 5:15
  this at three different points, I probably would say three
• 5:17
  different answers. I still really enjoy, like when
• 5:21
  I I'll go back to Montana every now and then and help my parents
• 5:24
  out the shop. Like they went to Africa and
• 5:26
  haunted for a week together and left me at home.
• 5:27
  So that was cool. So.
• 5:34
  It's like that family dinner that you didn't get invited to.
• 5:37
  Then everybody comes back to dinner from dinner with like
• 5:39
  this amazing story about how good the food and dessert was.
• 5:41
  And it's like, oh, that's cool, you know?
• 5:44
  But no, it was good. Like, I still enjoy going back
• 5:48
  and like working at the shop and like things like that, but I I
• 5:51
  enjoy what I do more now because it's a little bit more flexible,
• 5:54
  a little bit more freedom. What would your least favorite
• 5:56
  be? Now shooting, if you'd asked me
• 5:59
  five years ago, I loved the shooting, but now it's like I I
• 6:03
  did up to I think up to like COVID realistically, because
• 6:08
  then it was like when the COVID era time frame was we really
• 6:12
  didn't shoot for was it probably like 5 months, six months where
• 6:15
  there really wasn't any shoots. And then it's like, wow, there
• 6:17
  is other things to life than shooting about every single day
• 6:21
  nonstop. We went to the lake, we got to
• 6:23
  go fishing. Like got to do actual like
• 6:25
  normal everyday life things that.
• 6:27
  We never. Got to do before.
• 6:29
  So I think that's kind of the time frame where it was like
• 6:32
  archery kind of like started to lose.
• 6:34
  I started to lose a little bit of interest, lose that like
• 6:36
  spark, desire, things like that. I mean, and then nowadays, like
• 6:41
  if you're not legitly perfect, I mean, the Vegas shoot last this
• 6:46
  last weekend proved it. Like you literally cannot miss
• 6:49
  anymore. So you could go out and have the
• 6:51
  best weekend of your life, shoot the best score and not even cut
• 6:54
  a paycheck. So like that's the hard part is
• 6:58
  with target archery now is everybody's so good and the
• 7:00
  equipment has gotten so good and the access to knowledge has
• 7:03
  gotten so easy with YouTube, social media, things like that.
• 7:06
  And everybody's way more open to the knowledge base now than they
• 7:09
  used to be. Like 10-15 years ago.
• 7:11
  It was like you had two or three guys that knew everything.
• 7:14
  They're really secretive. Didn't show onto that.
• 7:16
  At all. Because that was like their
• 7:17
  cheat code right now, everybody. That was their advantage over
• 7:21
  the other competitors. Dude, I mean, you see that with
• 7:23
  hunting too, or really any sport, but sports that we relate
• 7:27
  to, archery, but especially in hunting, the access to
• 7:30
  information, just with the Internet becoming more
• 7:32
  prevalent. Like it used to be such a tall
• 7:35
  task to go out of state and try to hunt a new state when when I
• 7:38
  was like a kid, my dad and I would do that.
• 7:40
  You'd have to go dig out maps, learn where the public land was,
• 7:44
  like learn the regs why don't you?
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  Just open your app and like yeah.
• 7:48
  You set your settings. To, you know, OK, I want to see
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  the private lands. I want to know what's like
• 7:54
  wildlife management, what's a BLM area like?
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  You know what, where water is, where fires are like.
• 8:01
  So you can have an idea of like, Oh well, you know this.
• 8:04
  Might have. As much population, yeah, so.
• 8:06
  You can literally go and click on it and down and request the
• 8:08
  download and request a live image before you even step foot
• 8:11
  on that piece of dirt. Yeah.
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  And know exactly what it looks like.
• 8:14
  Oh, is this water hole dry this year compared to what it was
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  last year? Things like that.
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  I mean, back in the day it was just Eastman's.
• 8:19
  Yeah, exactly. So like you had to know, like
• 8:21
  you had to know what to read and then know where to like, connect
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  the dots. Now it's like press 1 button and
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  it's at your fingertips. It's become a lot easier to have
• 8:31
  knowledge, which isn't a bad thing, but it just, it makes it
• 8:34
  so more people have access to it, you know?
• 8:37
  And that's really it. And that makes total sense with
• 8:39
  the competition stuff. And that's interesting what you
• 8:42
  said about 2020 and like shooting less and then realizing
• 8:45
  like, I don't, I don't have to shoot all the time.
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  I think that's one really cool part about being like a content
• 8:51
  creator is I don't, I love to shoot, obviously, and do shoot a
• 8:54
  lot, but I don't need, like, sometimes I won't shoot for like
• 8:57
  two or three weeks, you know, not often.
• 9:00
  But like, if I'm not filming anything and I have tons of
• 9:02
  videos lined up, we're just living life doing other stuff.
• 9:05
  Whereas as a competitor, it's like, you can't really do that.
• 9:08
  Sure, you could. Yeah.
• 9:09
  We do, but then you get your buck kicked and you suck and
• 9:13
  then you're behind, and then you have to work even harder, like
• 9:16
  between the next event or the next event to try to catch back
• 9:18
  up from the time that you lost. So it's pretty much like you
• 9:21
  don't slack because now everyone's so good, you can't.
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  And like a lot of the video stuff that I share when I was
• 9:28
  coming up, like there wasn't the Internet, there wasn't social
• 9:31
  media like that. And that was not part of our job
• 9:34
  at all, nor did we use it to learn information.
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  So like, of course, I had people like my parents and one of our
• 9:39
  local guys at the bow rack and stuff teaching me things.
• 9:42
  But like for the really like detailed stuff that I'll share,
• 9:45
  like trial and error, like I just had to learn it myself.
• 9:48
  You just got to put the bow in the press and hope you don't
• 9:49
  blow it up. Like you just got a, you know
• 9:51
  what I mean? Like work through those things
• 9:53
  and learn the hard way. So what I try to share is like,
• 9:56
  OK, through the time that I had been doing this because it's my
• 9:59
  full time job, here's some quick easy tests or things that you
• 10:02
  can do to save people that learning curve and save them
• 10:05
  that time. Because the average dude working
• 10:06
  a nine to five doesn't have the time to, like, do that kind of
• 10:10
  stuff. Like that is my 9:00 to 5:00,
• 10:11
  you know? I think so much safer for people
• 10:14
  to know how to do it themselves. Like sure, yeah, the bow shops
• 10:19
  make more money if you're coming there to bring your stuff and no
• 10:22
  one says you're going to stop bringing your stuff and you
• 10:24
  know, like they're the paid expert for a reason or you hope
• 10:27
  your shop is or what not. Some people aren't lucky enough
• 10:31
  to have a great shop next to them.
• 10:34
  But if you're out there, whether it's in the field or even just
• 10:38
  at home and like something kind of happens, like and they're
• 10:43
  like, I'll just keep shooting, you know, because I can't bring
• 10:46
  it in the shop or whatever. Yeah, if you could just know how
• 10:49
  to fix yourself, it's so much safer than them blowing their
• 10:52
  bow up and wasting so much more money now to come back in to fix
• 10:56
  it or hurting themselves by doing.
• 10:58
  Like we saw a dude blow up his bow at a shoe, like standing
• 11:02
  right next to us and like boom, like big black and Blues down
• 11:06
  his arm. Like within seconds.
• 11:08
  I'm like just imagine if one piece like came and hitching the
• 11:10
  eyeball. Or when they blow up, like it
• 11:12
  can go sideways real quick. So that's the other that is I
• 11:15
  would say almost a downfall though, is because if people are
• 11:17
  working on it but they don't really know what they're doing,
• 11:19
  sometimes it can get a little dodgy take.
• 11:20
  The time to really like. Know it efficiently, Yeah.
• 11:23
  So there's good and bad to both of that.
• 11:26
  But it's different on the hunting side.
• 11:29
  I think people tinker a lot less.
• 11:31
  It's a lot less precise, you know, like you got a bigger area
• 11:33
  to hit. It's not like, you know, you
• 11:36
  miss this 1X and you lose 100 grand like like tournaments.
• 11:39
  Yeah. So hunting I'm way more like
• 11:41
  laid back and chill. But you know, we talked about it
• 11:44
  earlier. All the stuff that I've learned
• 11:46
  on the target side, I transition over to the work that I do on my
• 11:49
  hunting bows, which I know makes them better.
• 11:52
  But really, I mean, if you want to be the top level at like any
• 11:55
  of this stuff, you, you got to know how to work on your own
• 11:57
  stuff. Like if you don't.
• 11:59
  You're going to get the. I need that.
• 12:00
  Yeah, I got to, I got to go get the access to the information
• 12:04
  and I'll get back to you on it, but I'll get some one of my guys
• 12:07
  on it. But dude, that's crazy.
• 12:11
  Yeah. I I should probably learn a
• 12:13
  couple, couple things, you know? Yeah, I probably should.
• 12:17
  I just like to perform, you know, the heavy.
• 12:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:23
  So three of us are Bowtech. Yeah, Well, you are too.
• 12:27
  We all are Bowtech people. All of us.
• 12:29
  Yeah. Tate's the newest.
• 12:32
  How's it been repping for for Bowtech?
• 12:34
  Someone told me this back in the day and I I think it was true
• 12:38
  then, probably may be true now but maybe not as much.
• 12:41
  I knew a guy who switched from repping from 1 brand switched to
• 12:45
  Bowtech and his other buddy who stayed at the other bow brand
• 12:50
  was like man I'm so jealousy switching to Bowtech and I was
• 12:53
  like why is that? And he's like, well, they're the
• 12:54
  easiest bows to sell to shops. That's what he told me at the
• 12:58
  time. And I was like, huh, why is
• 13:00
  that? And it was because of the tuning
• 13:03
  at the time. This was when they were like the
• 13:04
  only ones with Deadlock. And then also he's like, and
• 13:08
  then they got Tight Spot and Black Gold and Ripcord.
• 13:11
  It's such a good conglomerate that's like really easy for
• 13:14
  shops to want to buy and tune them quickly and efficiently and
• 13:18
  get them out the door. Well, for the customers.
• 13:22
  Would you say that's still the case or?
• 13:24
  I mean, I know brands have caught up in the tuning
• 13:26
  department. Obviously I would say the the
• 13:29
  nice thing about all the brands that is under that like the
• 13:32
  conglomerate umbrella, you know, with like black gold, tight
• 13:35
  spot, Ripcord, Bowtech, Diamond, Excalibur, Excalibur crossbows.
• 13:39
  Yeah, it's just a it's a very versatile line and all the lines
• 13:43
  are very well known by pretty much all the consumer base.
• 13:48
  Any kind of outdoor hunting, hunting person that is in
• 13:51
  archery has either heard of those brands before or is shot
• 13:55
  those brands before on various different bows or accessory
• 13:59
  wise. But I think now with those with
• 14:03
  the other lines catching up to the different, like the the
• 14:06
  other the other companies yet catching up with like the tuning
• 14:09
  things like I still think we make the best tuning system out
• 14:12
  there. And it's still a very, very easy
• 14:13
  bow to sell. And it's that's one thing I hear
• 14:15
  all the time from my dealers is, man, I would love to sell a bow
• 14:18
  tech to every single person that walks the door because of how
• 14:21
  easy this bow is to tune. There's no hoops you gotta jump
• 14:24
  through. You don't have to take it and
• 14:25
  put it in the press. There's no shims.
• 14:27
  You don't have to twist this, twist that.
• 14:28
  It's just a simple, you could literally just that everything
• 14:31
  up with an Allen wrench on your bow.
• 14:33
  I mean, you literally just did that in your last video.
• 14:35
  You did the bow start to finish out-of-the-box and never put the
• 14:38
  bow in the bow press and you're shooting.
• 14:39
  Yeah. And there was no, no clips in
• 14:41
  that video that, you know, got people hot and bothered either.
• 14:44
  It was just very, very run-of-the-mill, you know, very
• 14:49
  basic. God, that was, I did not expect
• 14:52
  that. Well, I did to be honest when we
• 14:54
  did comment. On it, like in mid film you did
• 14:57
  comment that you did that without an arrow and that was
• 15:00
  dumb. Well, let me tell you why that's
• 15:02
  not the worst part. The reason so.
• 15:04
  Well, I'll tell you so. So let me tell you the reason we
• 15:08
  didn't put an arrow in. I made that decision
• 15:10
  consciously. My thought was OK, if he's
• 15:13
  already in in in my string as I'm holding this thing back.
• 15:17
  If he's up in there, the least of my problems is blowing up
• 15:22
  this bow. If I shoot this and take his
• 15:24
  finger off, I don't really give a shit about blowing up my bow.
• 15:29
  That, that was going to be my exact comment.
• 15:31
  When people were freaking out. I was like, it's not your bow.
• 15:35
  If he took your bow and drew it back without an arrow, like then
• 15:37
  you could act like that. If he blows it up, it's his own
• 15:40
  bamboo. He'll just go get another one
• 15:41
  that's on him, right? Like he'll figure it out.
• 15:44
  It was his fingers that were the sketchy part.
• 15:46
  I can't replace Josh's. Finger trusting of you actually.
• 15:50
  Well, the the. Case that.
• 15:51
  It's like you can comment all day long, who cares?
• 15:54
  The whole point of it was doing it without the press, which you
• 15:58
  you. Should have done with the
• 15:59
  drawboard. Of losing your fingers, then you
• 16:02
  know like whether the arrow is in it or not.
• 16:04
  Like even if he has an arrow in it, if he lets it go forward,
• 16:08
  your fingers close it inside that string like.
• 16:11
  It's a lose lose on either side. The finger of the bow.
• 16:14
  So if we did it with a afterwards, I was like, we could
• 16:18
  have just put it in the draw board and done the same thing,
• 16:21
  you know, I think. Whether?
• 16:23
  You're pressing. It or not like he wanted to use
• 16:25
  no equipment, yes. Except an to show to.
• 16:28
  Set that bow up. I think the archery industry is
• 16:31
  such a tough one because we hound these general rules into
• 16:35
  people's head, right? Like don't draw the bow back
• 16:38
  unless you want to shoot, always have an arrow on the bow, blah,
• 16:40
  blah, blah, all this safety stuff.
• 16:43
  Those are entry level things for people who don't know what
• 16:46
  they're doing, for people who are probably going to screw a
• 16:49
  few things up along the learning curve.
• 16:51
  Once you hit the level that we're at and clearly what you
• 16:53
  guys are doing now like we do some for the.
• 16:57
  Room. Well, still.
• 16:59
  I mean, we do some janky things to get by and whatever, but we
• 17:05
  know what we can get away with and what we can't.
• 17:07
  If the bow blows up, it's on us. Like there's just stuff that
• 17:11
  it's hard because the Internet sees that and goes crazy and
• 17:13
  then the whole don't teach people that.
• 17:15
  It's like, well, I, I commented on it.
• 17:17
  I defended you guys and I was like, if you were hunting and
• 17:20
  your Pete blew out and you're like miles in the Backcountry,
• 17:24
  like do you want to hike all the way back out and go find a bow
• 17:27
  shop or do you want to just put your peeping in the woods and be
• 17:29
  done? I'm.
• 17:29
  Going to grab that string and draw that bitch back with my
• 17:31
  foot and try to figure out a way to get that thing but.
• 17:34
  We're going to figure it out. I'll figure.
• 17:35
  A way out. So the comment there, there was
• 17:37
  one comment that I think deserves a Gold Star that I saw
• 17:40
  on that whole shebang. One guy said Josh trust in his
• 17:47
  fingers with the 20 year old Carter is crazy.
• 17:50
  That's really the crazy part. It's not me holding the bow
• 17:53
  back, it's my release that's got a million shots.
• 17:56
  We did look and I'm like, oh, they probably use like a draw
• 17:59
  check tool, which the shops have this little metal hook, you
• 18:02
  know, wrist strap thing so you can't let go.
• 18:04
  And then we saw it was your release and we were like, OK,
• 18:07
  even for us because we've had we've broke a lot of releases I
• 18:11
  like a lot. So I was like, that's pretty
• 18:13
  ballsy. That's pretty ballsy.
• 18:15
  Even not trusting you. More than I would trust a button
• 18:18
  because of him. You can just keep it cranked
• 18:20
  forward and it's never going to go anywhere.
• 18:22
  I mean a button like. Things can happen.
• 18:25
  Yeah, that was that was, it's funny, man.
• 18:28
  Like it's such the case with making videos.
• 18:30
  You just never know what part is going to like catch crazy steam.
• 18:34
  Well. What's funny is like, it is it
• 18:35
  truly? I think it's a little bit of
• 18:37
  brainwashing, you know, that goes on because you're ingrained
• 18:40
  to those rules in the beginning, like, you know, a kid in
• 18:44
  kindergarten is. And so it's just like, without
• 18:50
  fail, you see it and that's what you're thought.
• 18:52
  It's like, Oh my God, you cringe it like somebody doing it, but
• 18:56
  yet we'll go out to like a fun shoot and like James will shoot
• 18:59
  my bow for an entire course. I'm like, you don't think that's
• 19:03
  a little dangerous like this? 5 foot, ten, six foot. 6 foot
• 19:10
  OK. This 6 foot man, you know,
• 19:13
  holding the 24 1/2 inch draw with his anchor up here like
• 19:17
  literally nowhere near his face. Like could you imagine if he let
• 19:20
  that arrow go and it just like off to the side and shoot
• 19:23
  somebody in the back? Like it's very possible.
• 19:26
  Whoa, what? I'm not shooting nobody.
• 19:29
  Well, no, because you're good. You're an expert, you know, but
• 19:31
  but like, that's like to me just as dangerous.
• 19:35
  But you don't see those comments at all.
• 19:37
  You just think, Oh my, you see, whoa, that's so funny.
• 19:40
  How crazy, like cool that you did that, whatever.
• 19:43
  But then if it's like those, you know, basic things that are
• 19:46
  ingrained in your brain, we see it, we automatically cringe.
• 19:49
  I'm like cringing at the thought of someone shooting a bow that
• 19:52
  has absolutely not set up for them whatsoever.
• 19:55
  But that's not you don't get those comments on them at.
• 19:58
  All so for years we used to partially draw the bow back.
• 20:01
  You can't do it now. Pretty much all the cams on the
• 20:03
  bows are momentary interruption. So doing live on Instagram or
• 20:11
  TikTok if James is feeling too tired.
• 20:15
  It's so weird. Dude is feeling too.
• 20:19
  Tired before going on a live, he will literally go to the store
• 20:25
  and get himself some lollipops as Dan calls them just to wake
• 20:31
  himself up to have a couple before it starts.
• 20:34
  And then he'll drink them all through the live because it
• 20:36
  wakes. Yeah him.
• 20:38
  It's like it's like the Energizer Bunny.
• 20:40
  It gets him to plus plus. Those, those, those, those tips
• 20:44
  on TikTok live, I didn't realize how much money you can make on
• 20:46
  there. I did one live and made 100
• 20:49
  bucks off the tips. And if I didn't have my
• 20:52
  lollipops ahead of time, I would have been boring and tired.
• 20:55
  I would have got no tip. It's like, it's like, you know,
• 20:58
  it's an investment, you know, really at some time at some
• 21:01
  points. But we had a little break, which
• 21:04
  was nice. I needed to get up, stretch the
• 21:06
  legs. Have a look, Roy, but you Tate,
• 21:10
  how long did you shoot like pro I.
• 21:13
  Started, I don't know, shoot, what was that like 20/20/15 to
• 21:21
  23? So 8-9 years somewhere or
• 21:25
  something like that. Eight or nine years.
• 21:26
  It's a good run. So is that how you guys met on
• 21:28
  like the circuit that was going to be?
• 21:30
  One of my questions was so so how?
• 21:32
  What is the story of the meeting?
• 21:35
  This is actually a good. Story.
• 21:38
  If I get to tell the truth, Tate's.
• 21:39
  Face got quiet, his. Facial features literally
• 21:43
  quieted. Down there, I'll take I'll.
• 21:44
  Take something. What's happening in this story?
• 21:47
  So I was married and he was not. I'd be part of it and I was.
• 21:52
  I'm like the best wing woman. If you need a hook up, I'm your
• 21:55
  girl. Oh, you 2.
• 21:56
  Should go out together. You guys get married?
• 21:58
  I'm great at that. I'm very good at that.
• 22:00
  Yeah, no. Shame.
• 22:01
  So I will make it happen. So I used to run his Tinder for
• 22:05
  him and would try to set him up. And I would try to set him up
• 22:09
  with all my little archery friends.
• 22:12
  And I'd be like, oh, you're going to go hook up with Tate or
• 22:15
  you're going to go hook up with Tate.
• 22:16
  So I was like kind of this little pimp for a while.
• 22:20
  Then my. Marriage was horrid and ended up
• 22:24
  getting divorced thank God. And then I don't.
• 22:28
  So basically just changed the pimp.
• 22:29
  Contract yeah, I just. Kept watching all these girls
• 22:32
  fail and I was like, I think I can do that better.
• 22:35
  Here we are now. What an iconic story.
• 22:43
  That is an excellent story. You know, from from pimp to
• 22:47
  husband or pimp to wife. You know, like.
• 22:51
  You were basically. The prostitute, she was your.
• 22:53
  Pimp. And then you like to add any of
• 22:55
  that. So did.
• 22:57
  You ever since you were, you know, since you were Tate's
• 23:01
  pimps or did you ever have to backhand them and just keep that
• 23:03
  pimp and strong or what? There was one.
• 23:06
  Time I was really annoyed. We like put together this whole
• 23:09
  date thing. We got them to ice cream and
• 23:11
  we're like, here go do your thing guys.
• 23:13
  And Real Wild and I are having ice cream all happy and yeah, I
• 23:17
  don't know, it just didn't work out and then it was a failure.
• 23:19
  From the start I was. Like took a lot of.
• 23:23
  Coaxing. Coaxing.
• 23:24
  Yeah, I. Wasn't into it.
• 23:26
  I was just like, yeah, I'm good. This is.
• 23:28
  Joking your. Future wife was sitting there.
• 23:30
  You just you know the joke is now like any of the bridesmaids
• 23:33
  that I would have like at the wedding.
• 23:35
  Have I tried to hook up with him because they're all my friends
• 23:39
  that. Is good shit dude what I just
• 23:42
  wanted to make. Sure.
• 23:43
  It was kind of like, you know, when you got to like test out
• 23:46
  vehicles like she. Had to have.
• 23:49
  You test driven a few. Times.
• 23:50
  Beforehand to make sure you were acceptable for her.
• 23:54
  So she had your friends, you know, her friends take you out
• 23:56
  for a spin and they came back and reported to her.
• 23:59
  You know, like it's a good ride you should take.
• 24:04
  Oh my God, this pod's off. It's off.
• 24:09
  The rails. I love it.
• 24:12
  That's the wildest. Story I thought if I handed my.
• 24:16
  Sister over to you was like Britney.
• 24:19
  Take him for a spin and let me know if I should marry.
• 24:24
  Yeah. Hey.
• 24:25
  If you want to, I mean, if that's what you need to do, you
• 24:28
  know, I mean, I know you won't. You know.
• 24:30
  Oh dude what an insane story. I love it.
• 24:34
  Glad we asked that question. This is going to.
• 24:37
  Make people more intrigued in target archery.
• 24:39
  They're like, I didn't know there was this kind of tea
• 24:41
  behind the scenes. This is great.
• 24:42
  You go find. Husbands or just, you know, you
• 24:45
  just travel. Around all these kinds of places
• 24:47
  all the time together, Like, what's that show?
• 24:50
  What's that show about like Mormon wives?
• 24:52
  This is like it's called Mormon. It's sort of a similar vibe,
• 24:55
  which is fun. Just lots of tea and drop.
• 24:57
  But I really I. Saw one commercial for it and I
• 25:00
  was hooked. I was like, this is going to be
• 25:02
  wild. Apparently it's not as
• 25:04
  interesting as it comes off to be.
• 25:06
  It's about a bunch of like basically polygamous Mormons
• 25:09
  that like he's got multiple wives.
• 25:12
  Love is blinds. Fantastic.
• 25:13
  You guys ever seen that show? It's worth a watch.
• 25:16
  It's worth a watch, but okay so. Reality TV love shows and I'd
• 25:23
  never watched a single one. Now it's like every night switch
• 25:26
  one what there's do you watch the?
• 25:29
  Bachelor. No, I've never seen.
• 25:30
  It I did apply for it though back in the day.
• 25:32
  I believe you. Absolutely I.
• 25:33
  Did apply. I applied to be on like.
• 25:35
  Every love show there? A couple, a couple for sure.
• 25:38
  I think if I was still in the game for a few more years, I
• 25:41
  would have got one. But I, you know, didn't didn't
• 25:43
  go off if the mullet. Was longer.
• 25:45
  I know, that's the thing. I don't think that.
• 25:47
  Would have been the ticket. I think so too.
• 25:49
  I, I will say now that I've I've done it for a while, I'm not
• 25:52
  into holding the mics. I'm committed to it for this
• 25:54
  pod, but I'm not into no, I'm committed.
• 25:57
  I can't, I can't give up on it. I'm committed.
• 25:59
  I'm committed. But you can just put.
• 26:01
  It down, yeah. It's just going to be so quiet.
• 26:03
  It's not. So Paige.
• 26:05
  You've been pro for how many pro for?
• 26:09
  15 I've been full time on the circuit for 17.
• 26:12
  That's a long time. Yeah, it's a long time.
• 26:15
  What makes? A It's like golf.
• 26:16
  I just learned this. Like you get a pro card.
• 26:19
  Like you, I don't know what you have to do to get it, but you
• 26:22
  get a pro card. We have that too.
• 26:24
  But it's kind of a joke. Am I allowed to say that?
• 26:27
  We do, But yeah, you don't have to be that.
• 26:29
  How do you get that? Like what's the qualification?
• 26:31
  For a, there's like a. Certain score you have to shoot
• 26:34
  and another Pro is supposed to back you and there's a process,
• 26:37
  but it's kind of a joke. Like they're like.
• 26:39
  Like she's. Actually good?
• 26:41
  Yeah, they're actually good, but you don't really have to be good
• 26:43
  to get a pro card. So archery is weird because
• 26:47
  there's like so many people that say oh I'm a pro, I'm a pro, I'm
• 26:51
  a pro. But they could have made like
• 26:52
  $0.00 ever. So to me, the way I like to
• 26:56
  explain it is there's people use the word pro very loosely.
• 27:00
  I think there should be from like promotional staff and
• 27:04
  professional staff and they kind of screw that up.
• 27:07
  Like professional to me means you're earning a living.
• 27:09
  Promotional is like on the money that.
• 27:11
  You make yeah, promotional. Staff is what most people are
• 27:14
  where it's like, you know, here's some free stuff and
• 27:16
  here's this, you go promote it for us and we'll kick you some
• 27:19
  equipment and like that's what the majority of it is.
• 27:21
  And so it's really hard to make that distinction because we can
• 27:24
  shoot in the same division. We have the same pro card.
• 27:27
  Everyone calls themselves professional.
• 27:28
  Is there actual physical? Card, yeah.
• 27:31
  Yes, yeah. And it's.
• 27:33
  So here's what weird in archery too, right?
• 27:34
  And other than live, that's a whole other thing with golf, but
• 27:37
  it's basically the PGA in archery.
• 27:39
  There's so many circuits. So we have NFAASAUSA, Archery,
• 27:43
  World Archery, IBO and every every organization has their own
• 27:47
  version of what that is. So you could be like a pro and
• 27:51
  ASA and they don't have, they do have pro cards, don't they or
• 27:54
  not, I don't know, just pay the registration.
• 27:56
  Basically you just pay registration.
• 27:57
  You're a pro like NFA. We actually have a pro division
• 28:00
  ASA. Or like you can go do.
• 28:02
  It tomorrow, sign up, pay to get registered. 150 bucks.
• 28:05
  Or whatever it is for your pro membership and that's it.
• 28:08
  So that's where if. You go get a real pro.
• 28:10
  Card. I'll go get a ASA pro Card.
• 28:12
  We'll just call ourself pros I bet you.
• 28:15
  You could go shoot the qualifying thing for NFA today
• 28:18
  like it's. I was about to insult him.
• 28:20
  I was going to say it's not hard.
• 28:22
  Yeah, I I did. Drop I did drop 4 nines but I'm
• 28:26
  going to try it after this pod. I'm not going to drop any nines.
• 28:29
  I'm not going to, no way. That is funny.
• 28:32
  Shit, I mean, it's, it's so interesting, you know that 17
• 28:36
  years is a long time, you know, what would you say?
• 28:40
  It was like some. Of the changes for the better
• 28:43
  you've seen and maybe like one for the worse that you think was
• 28:47
  maybe better 15 years ago. Social media, OK, yeah, which, I
• 28:51
  mean, I do it right. That's what we're here doing.
• 28:53
  But when I first started from the job perspective as a
• 28:56
  professional Archer, really the only requirement was go be good
• 29:00
  and win tournaments. Like, yeah, Co work the booths
• 29:02
  and talk to some people. But like nobody really felt like
• 29:05
  they knew you because they didn't know you because all they
• 29:07
  saw was you shooting on some shooting line.
• 29:09
  They saw you in a magazine, right?
• 29:11
  They saw you on a newsletter. Like it wasn't, it was on like
• 29:14
  a. Giant poster I saw in one of the
• 29:17
  social media images like behind the target.
• 29:20
  So that's. What this gnormous picture of
• 29:22
  you but. That's all people used to see
• 29:23
  was like that and so. But now with social media, it's
• 29:28
  become a huge part of what our kind of job description is
• 29:31
  supposed to be. And it does take a lot of time
• 29:34
  and a lot of dedication, as you guys know.
• 29:36
  And it's different because you're still expected to go win
• 29:39
  tournaments. But on the same token, you're
• 29:40
  also expected to do this whole other side of it to like when I
• 29:43
  started didn't even exist. And so that's been that would be
• 29:46
  my negative. Like it's also.
• 29:47
  Your full time like it's your full time.
• 29:48
  Job, even though it's not so there's that I think things for
• 29:52
  the better when I first started there was not the depth,
• 29:55
  especially in the women's division.
• 29:57
  There was a few key like stand out women who've been good for
• 30:00
  years and no one really ever challenged that.
• 30:03
  So I kind of came in in the 1st wave of like youngsters that
• 30:05
  like push those boundaries and like we actually beat them,
• 30:09
  start pushing the scores higher and higher.
• 30:11
  And it was an interesting transition.
• 30:13
  Now there's so many women like we just finished the Vegas this
• 30:16
  weekend and there was eleven of us in a shoot off at 899.
• 30:19
  So it's one out for the weekend. And that would never have
• 30:23
  happened 10 years ago. You know, like, like you would
• 30:25
  win the whole shoot with a score like that.
• 30:28
  There would be one person, you know, maybe one and a couple
• 30:30
  down, another couple down. Like it wasn't the depth wasn't
• 30:33
  there. And so with I think social media
• 30:36
  also, this would be a positive as well.
• 30:38
  So there's negative side and positive both.
• 30:39
  But like now the information is there, people learn sooner, they
• 30:44
  can learn quicker, so they improve faster.
• 30:46
  Like when I was young, they didn't have that good of
• 30:48
  equipment for kids. Now they do.
• 30:49
  So like I was shooting a broom handle stabilizer, like my dad
• 30:52
  would custom make strings at different lengths to change my
• 30:55
  drawings. Like now in the Diamond line,
• 30:57
  like a kid can buy a bow and it'll fit them from the time
• 31:00
  they're young until they're full grown basically.
• 31:02
  And so the readily available equipment, knowledge, expertise,
• 31:07
  all of that stuff has made people better faster.
• 31:10
  And so it's made it harder, like way harder.
• 31:12
  You know, I didn't used to have to work that hard to win.
• 31:15
  Like now you really genuinely do.
• 31:18
  I used to just think, OK, this was a factor back me up on I'd
• 31:21
  be like, if I go shoot my best, I'm going to win.
• 31:25
  If I just knew that like now I can shoot my best and not even
• 31:28
  make the podium because like everyone is so good.
• 31:31
  And so the depth has grown. We have more people shooting.
• 31:34
  They're getting better and better.
• 31:35
  So like on that side of it, you know, the social media is done a
• 31:38
  great job for the industry. If we don't have that, then
• 31:41
  we're not growing, right? So I do like it from that growth
• 31:44
  standpoint. And that's kind of how I
• 31:45
  approach my social media is just informative, teaching people,
• 31:49
  helping people because again, they don't have time to do all
• 31:52
  that testing and do all that stuff.
• 31:54
  And so I've got 17 years behind. So I started shooting when I was
• 31:57
  two also. So that would be almost 28 years
• 32:01
  ago now. I'll show you some pictures when
• 32:02
  we're done. Yeah.
• 32:04
  My parents shooting, living around here pushed me around a
• 32:06
  stroller, stand me up, shoot, put me back in the stroller and
• 32:08
  go to the next target. Like it was ridiculous.
• 32:10
  So I don't ever remember not shooting a bow.
• 32:12
  And so I never planned on this being my job.
• 32:14
  We just traveled, shot for fun every weekend, like haunted.
• 32:18
  That's, you know what we did. And then when I was 10, I broke
• 32:21
  my first state record and it came in the mail.
• 32:24
  We were like, well, that's cool. We didn't know there were
• 32:25
  records. And so we started researching
• 32:28
  that. We found USA Archery, We found
• 32:29
  World Archery. And like, I would just go to a
• 32:31
  tournament, do well and they'd be like, wow, so is that like
• 32:35
  the. Point where your parents are
• 32:36
  like oh shoot my kids like I. Mean, I was always good, but we
• 32:41
  just didn't like we never even realized it could be a job, if
• 32:44
  that makes sense, because it kind of couldn't.
• 32:46
  Also for women back then, like they could do it not to sound
• 32:50
  horrible, but most of them didn't make enough to live off
• 32:51
  of. They were living off their
• 32:52
  parents or living off their husbands or whatever.
• 32:54
  Like they didn't make a real income.
• 32:56
  And so in the years, like, I've worked really hard trying to
• 32:59
  push that boundary to where it's like, if you're a young girl and
• 33:02
  you want to do this now, there's a difference.
• 33:04
  You have to have a value, right? And now winning tournaments
• 33:07
  doesn't carry as much value because there's working with
• 33:10
  people in the booth and their social media, like you have to
• 33:12
  bring multiple things to the table to have equivalent value
• 33:15
  that winning used to hold 10 years ago.
• 33:18
  But I want there to be a place where obviously people can look
• 33:20
  at that and have a chance to make it their living.
• 33:23
  And so now it's more a reality than it's ever been before.
• 33:27
  Yeah. I.
• 33:27
  Mean all those changes make a lot of sense.
• 33:30
  I think in pretty much any sport you're seeing a lot more pay
• 33:35
  increases for women's sports. Like in basketball, you always
• 33:39
  hear the WNBA girls like, oh, a couple of them are like, Oh
• 33:43
  well, why does LeBron make 40 million a year and I make
• 33:46
  750,000? And obviously it's like there's
• 33:50
  way more eyeballs on the men's sport.
• 33:52
  So of course it makes a difference stick ticket sales
• 33:54
  revenue. But I do think it's good to see
• 33:56
  the gaps closing in the interest of women's sports.
• 33:59
  And a lot of them has increased a ton.
• 34:02
  Like, you know, even WNBA is a prime example.
• 34:04
  They got a big star last year. And because of that you actually
• 34:07
  see it on ESPN and different things, which is going to
• 34:10
  overtime raise the revenue ship. So I think it's cool that you
• 34:13
  were kind of a part of that wave actually people it's dope from.
• 34:17
  What we do like people like watching you because you guys
• 34:20
  are funny and fun for us. They don't really care.
• 34:23
  They just want what's your knowledge, what's your secret
• 34:25
  and give it to me, right? It's a, it's a whole different
• 34:28
  dynamic. And so with that, it's, I'm
• 34:33
  trying to think of how to say this nicely.
• 34:37
  It's, it's different because of what people want out of you.
• 34:40
  And so like women who are influencers from like a
• 34:43
  standpoint where you guys come from can sell quite a bit of
• 34:46
  stuff. If you are a professional target
• 34:48
  Archer and you don't know how to work on your own stuff as a
• 34:51
  woman, what value do you bring? If if I walked up to someone,
• 34:56
  we're going to say you, if you're a pro Archer and I walked
• 34:58
  up to you and I said, can you please explain to me like why
• 35:00
  you use this rest? How do you adjust it?
• 35:02
  How do you set it up? And why is it superior to this
• 35:03
  other rest? If if I'm working a booth, they
• 35:06
  look at that. Brochure like you're a fucking
• 35:07
  idiot if you can't answer. That question how do you sell
• 35:10
  those products? So for years, none of the women
• 35:13
  ever worked on their own stuff. Their dads did, their husbands
• 35:15
  did, their boyfriends did like, and it was interesting to some
• 35:18
  of the women, you'd see them, they'd start dating a pro Archer
• 35:20
  and they'd get so good because he'd start working on their
• 35:22
  equipment. They'd break up and then they'd
• 35:24
  tank because they didn't know anything.
• 35:25
  And so I realized that pretty young and I was like, all right,
• 35:28
  I want to learn. Like, I want to do my own stuff.
• 35:30
  And so that has helped me like achieve contracts that make it
• 35:34
  possible to live off of archery. If I didn't put that effort in
• 35:37
  and I didn't learn how to work on my own stuff, I would have
• 35:39
  next to no value. And so it's different, you know,
• 35:42
  on our side of the industry for sure.
• 35:43
  Yeah. I mean I I.
• 35:44
  Think it certainly shows, you know, I think as as the
• 35:48
  internet's blowing up and stuff's become more accessible,
• 35:50
  both information wise, but also like I guess viewership wise is
• 35:55
  obviously viewership and impressions are very, very
• 35:58
  important to brands. That's why companies will drop
• 36:01
  absurd money for a Super Bowl ad because they know tons of
• 36:04
  eyeballs are on it. So for companies, it's easy to
• 36:07
  quantify. Like, you know, if someone like
• 36:09
  me is like, hey, you know, we got 36 million views on YouTube
• 36:12
  last year. It's like, OK, that has a lot of
• 36:15
  value because no one, not many people are doing those kind of
• 36:18
  numbers. So then as a competitor, it's
• 36:20
  like, well, you have to spend time on on being super talented,
• 36:24
  but if you can well round yourself, I think like you're
• 36:26
  saying and build your brand, OK, I am good, yes.
• 36:29
  But I also understand how to talk about stuff and I get some
• 36:33
  viewership and impression. The more you can do that in any
• 36:37
  way. And then?
• 36:38
  Exactly. All that stuff kind of combined
• 36:41
  just raises, you know, the value.
• 36:44
  Well, you're. You're well-rounded is the best
• 36:47
  word for it because like ultimately, what does a business
• 36:49
  want? They want to sell products.
• 36:51
  And so like you winning definitely helps say like, oh,
• 36:55
  that, you know, like if she can do it, that boat must be a
• 36:58
  pretty good boat. But if they can also add you and
• 37:00
  you can sit in the booth and you can explain the product and it
• 37:03
  makes sense in a way. Like, OK, now there's another
• 37:06
  way She can sell products, not just because she wins with the
• 37:09
  boat, but she can talk about the product.
• 37:11
  And OK, social media, she posts a lot and she gets viewership.
• 37:14
  So now I know on social media she's also going to sell our
• 37:17
  products. Like if you want to make, they
• 37:19
  want to sell stuff if you want to make it.
• 37:21
  As a professional target Archer, you have to be well-rounded in
• 37:24
  today's market, especially as a woman.
• 37:26
  The men can get away with being a little bit less well-rounded
• 37:30
  because again, they have more eyes for viewership.
• 37:32
  Like it's true. Like we have some like one of
• 37:34
  the best guys in the world and I'll throw one of the bus
• 37:36
  because I'm friends with Mike. Can't, his name is Mike.
• 37:38
  Like he doesn't do a lot of social media and I don't know
• 37:41
  how much he does in the booths. Whatever is super nice, but like
• 37:44
  he just wins everything. Like his nicknames, Mr. Perfect,
• 37:46
  like he's really freaking good as a woman.
• 37:49
  Like I went through in one everything for years, but like
• 37:52
  that's not enough. So we really do have to be more
• 37:55
  well-rounded that that is one of the differences in the industry.
• 37:58
  If you want to make it, you can't just be good at shooting a
• 38:01
  bow anymore. And I think like.
• 38:04
  Years ago the all of the product brands from all the different
• 38:09
  various brands out there in the industry like weren't at a level
• 38:13
  where they were all kind of equal.
• 38:16
  Back then you would have like 1 bow brand that would come out
• 38:20
  with a bow say one year and it would be far superior to the
• 38:23
  rest that bow. Everybody knew that bow was like
• 38:24
  the best bow on the market or this site was the best site on
• 38:27
  the market. This rest arrow stabilizer
• 38:29
  release, blah blah blah, whatever it may be, back in the
• 38:31
  day we all. Shot the same brands, more or
• 38:33
  less. There was no variation.
• 38:34
  Whoever was winning. With that product was like, wow,
• 38:37
  they're winning with that product.
• 38:38
  It must be the best. We're now there's so many
• 38:40
  different avenues and outlets to find information and all the
• 38:43
  product from all the different brands has gotten to be such a
• 38:45
  high level quality equipment that it's really boils down to
• 38:49
  whatever your personal preference is now.
• 38:51
  So just going out and winning is not really sufficient anymore.
• 38:55
  Like you have to be able to give a reason to why this is good.
• 38:58
  So that's where the knowledge plays into huge factors.
• 39:00
  I think the other thing with that.
• 39:02
  Too is you'll see people say like on comments for us when
• 39:06
  pros switch, well there's their pro.
• 39:07
  They shoot so good they can win with anything.
• 39:10
  Sure, that's probably true. Like you take some of the top
• 39:12
  people and you put anything in their hands and they're probably
• 39:14
  going to win. What they don't see is which one
• 39:17
  is easier to win with? Does one take longer?
• 39:19
  Like does one take double the amount of hours to get ready and
• 39:21
  prep and build and tune and perform well with then something
• 39:26
  else like building arrows? Like do I have to go through
• 39:28
  full sorting processes or can I trust that they're good enough
• 39:30
  to just build them out the box? Like, so there are differences
• 39:33
  in that sense that really play in now, I think, you know, but
• 39:40
  it's stuff that we do behind the scenes that people don't always
• 39:42
  see. But really he's right.
• 39:44
  Like the companies all have made leaps and bounds.
• 39:46
  Like, you know, technology wise, Botech came out with deadlock
• 39:49
  and like really push the boundaries with that.
• 39:51
  But now you're seeing Matthews put limb shift and elite moves,
• 39:54
  their limb pocket tilt things. And like companies came out with
• 39:57
  their version copying what Bo Tech did.
• 40:00
  And so now you can buy similar technology adjustment in a
• 40:03
  different way, but across the whole industry.
• 40:06
  And so, you know, you see that anytime someone comes out with
• 40:09
  something, the companies are like, oh man, we need a version
• 40:11
  of we're falling behind. Then they got to work around
• 40:12
  patents to make it happen. But everybody makes a good
• 40:16
  product now. They really do.
• 40:17
  Yeah. And.
• 40:18
  That's so similar. Like I said, we talked about it
• 40:20
  a little earlier, but I've always been a like motocross
• 40:22
  supercross fan and it's still so true.
• 40:24
  I mean the all of the motorcycle brands are top tier now.
• 40:28
  It's just like, I think in any space there's not really
• 40:31
  clunkers anymore in like anything, you know, it doesn't
• 40:34
  matter what it is like all running shoes are like good now,
• 40:38
  you know what I mean? Where at at a certain era, some
• 40:41
  were probably were trash because like the development, they're
• 40:43
  trying to figure stuff out. When you take big leaps,
• 40:45
  sometimes it's like it was a good idea, but it's not there
• 40:48
  yet. It's like nowadays all the ideas
• 40:50
  are so ironed out that it's kind of like adding to ideas every
• 40:53
  time. But 17 years, like how, how long
• 40:58
  ideally much like how long would you want to be a pro if you had
• 41:02
  to think about it? Like that's kind of a crazy one.
• 41:04
  Do you see yourself being a pro for 40 years?
• 41:07
  So I always. Say this is kind of an ongoing
• 41:09
  joke with the girls. I was like, yeah, you know, as
• 41:12
  soon as I'm like losing and I'm not winning at all anymore and
• 41:15
  whatever, like I'm done. And I and it's always like, when
• 41:17
  are you going to have kids, right?
• 41:18
  They asked me that too. I'm like, yeah, as soon as I'm
• 41:20
  losing and I'm, you know, not good anymore.
• 41:23
  And all the girls will be like, well, that's never going to
• 41:25
  happen. Like, you're going to be
• 41:26
  freaking 70 years old out here, still finding a way to win.
• 41:30
  And I'm just like, thanks, I appreciate that.
• 41:32
  But it's kind of true. Like, as long as you're still
• 41:34
  relevant, you're still winning. Well, I I'll probably keep doing
• 41:38
  it. He's right, though.
• 41:42
  Like when I was younger, the travel part of it was like,
• 41:44
  amazing. I was like, this is so cool and
• 41:46
  so great. And yeah, an airport.
• 41:48
  And yeah, a new hotel and a new place and new countries and.
• 41:52
  Or not airports. Well, you don't.
• 41:54
  I love airports. And you love.
• 41:55
  Them I. Love the water hole at the
• 41:57
  airport, you know what I mean? Yeah, now that doesn't have the
• 42:02
  same allure. Like now it's like I've got to
• 42:04
  go again. Like it's already time.
• 42:07
  Like can I just have one weekend off?
• 42:09
  Like as I've gotten older, it's transition more to that than
• 42:12
  like the excitement to go. And it's just hard.
• 42:15
  Like like you said, during COVID, we got to do some normal
• 42:17
  people things. And I always worried like what
• 42:20
  am I going to do when I don't have archery anymore?
• 42:22
  And like I'm this sounds so pathetic, but like I don't have
• 42:26
  a life outside of this. This has been my entire life
• 42:28
  since I was young. That's all I know.
• 42:31
  It's all I've done. Like my whole thing is in this
• 42:34
  archery industry. So when I'm not a pro archery
• 42:36
  more than who am I? And COVID kind of showed us
• 42:40
  like, oh, there's a life. And it's actually not so bad,
• 42:43
  you know, like, that's kind of nice.
• 42:45
  Like, we can go to the lake and like dinner with friends.
• 42:47
  And like, I have friends here. Like my two best friends are
• 42:50
  from here at home. We've been trying to do dinner
• 42:51
  with them for like probably two months now and just haven't even
• 42:55
  pulled that off. Scheduling is crazy.
• 42:58
  And so I love it. Like, I probably will keep doing
• 43:00
  it until I can't anymore. But it's different than it used
• 43:05
  to be for sure. I wish I could stay home a
• 43:08
  little bit sometimes, yeah. Or.
• 43:11
  Hunt more traveling around is it is where it is wearing travel
• 43:15
  all the time like you know to like I don't know how many times
• 43:19
  we've been home for more than 8 days at a that's like the Max
• 43:23
  that's like a long stretch at home and that is a lot you know
• 43:28
  def so I I get that and especially when you're traveling
• 43:30
  so far for some of this stuff like you were talking about
• 43:32
  something chilly and it's not just the.
• 43:34
  Travel it's you have to do this and they expect you to be at
• 43:37
  your best every single weekend all year long, year after year.
• 43:41
  And sometimes it's like format to format.
• 43:43
  To format too. So it's not like you just have
• 43:46
  one setup and you're going to shoot 3D is all.
• 43:49
  If that was it and there was only there was enough circuit,
• 43:52
  like enough events in the circuit that you could just do
• 43:54
  that would be great. But you're bouncing from indoors
• 43:57
  to outdoors to 3D to feed a style tournaments to field style
• 44:01
  tournaments like there's restrictions site.
• 44:04
  Restrictions like different rules between all the
• 44:06
  organizations. So it's everyone's always like,
• 44:08
  why are you always changing? It's like, well, I'm one of the
• 44:11
  few that shoots basically every circuit that I can.
• 44:15
  And so I have to have so many different setups running at any
• 44:18
  given time because you have to have a different one for each
• 44:21
  different thing. Like he said, if I just
• 44:23
  specialized in one, it's it's easier.
• 44:25
  But here's why I don't, there's not enough money in it to just
• 44:28
  do that. And so there's been years.
• 44:31
  I'll just use NFAA and USA archery that I always win the
• 44:35
  NFAA stuff. Like it was was pretty good at
• 44:37
  that. Had a pretty big lead on all the
• 44:38
  girls for quite a few years and I counted on winning the NFA as
• 44:42
  and the fetus were like, yeah, maybe.
• 44:44
  Well, I had a year that I didn't win like any of the NFA as or
• 44:47
  one, only one, one or two. But I actually want a whole
• 44:49
  bunch of fetus. And so you never know.
• 44:51
  Like what I've found is when I do like the full circuits, I
• 44:55
  might have a hot year in ASA and not so good at feta, but the
• 44:57
  next year it could be totally opposite.
• 44:59
  If I just focused on the one and it was an off year, you're
• 45:03
  screwed. And so I really kind of like
• 45:06
  people are like, why don't you pull back?
• 45:07
  Or don't you think it'd be better if you focused on one?
• 45:10
  I don't think I would shoot any better at any of those events.
• 45:12
  If that's all I did. I'd be worse because there'd be
• 45:14
  more pressure because there's less events.
• 45:16
  So you have to, you have to perform because there isn't an
• 45:19
  event next weekend and next weekend and next weekend.
• 45:21
  Yeah, that wasn't. There as much before.
• 45:24
  Yeah, there's not as. Many people who can go around
• 45:26
  and win at everything like that's hard and it takes a lot
• 45:30
  of time and a lot of vacation and 10 times more now, like I
• 45:32
  said than it did 10 years ago. Also, I did want to touch on the
• 45:35
  fact that everybody has adults feet are touching the ground
• 45:38
  except the oldest person in the room.
• 45:39
  Are your are your backs all closed like to the back?
• 45:42
  I have I have no upper body. I'm built like Mike Wazowski.
• 45:46
  I have a lot. Of like, I feel like a little
• 45:48
  child down here, just like they can't touch the ground and
• 45:53
  that's not like that's. Funny.
• 45:54
  Yeah, yours are flat, right? You got your crayons in the.
• 45:57
  Coloring menu. Yeah, I do.
• 45:59
  I do get those every time. I go to the rest of the boost to
• 46:01
  be occupied sometimes in my truck.
• 46:06
  I feel like I do need a booster seat.
• 46:07
  It's very frustrating. Like you crank that thing up as
• 46:10
  high as you can go and like especially like climbing rocks
• 46:13
  and stuff when you take it out to trails to go hunting.
• 46:17
  And I could see like out over the top.
• 46:20
  But like my it's like kind of we say it when you drive a ship,
• 46:24
  like you're like distance that you can see is further
• 46:28
  dependent. There's a like an equation for
• 46:30
  it is further the taller you are.
• 46:34
  And so I'm like, in theory it's the opposite for truck driving.
• 46:37
  Like James can see further. He's higher so he can see down
• 46:40
  the front of him. Yeah, I cannot.
• 46:42
  So I'm like, James, you're going to have to get out because I
• 46:45
  can't fucking see that rock right there.
• 46:46
  And it's like I can't see over the hood.
• 46:49
  There are times when I feel like I need a boost receipt for
• 46:51
  driving. Yeah, but I was saying it is
• 46:54
  kind of cool that stuff has gotten so good technology wise
• 47:00
  that I think though it makes it more competitive for you as a
• 47:04
  shooter. It's almost kind of nice because
• 47:08
  like you're less relying on the equipment and you're more like
• 47:12
  relying on your talent and how much you're like practicing and
• 47:17
  what your skill level is. So like you're going out there
• 47:19
  and you're competing with people based on their skill level,
• 47:22
  their knowledge and their talent, not based on like, oh
• 47:25
  shoot, I already know that bow shoots better than mine or
• 47:27
  whatever. So it's kind of cool in that
• 47:30
  aspect because you're really looking at like, holy cow, their
• 47:33
  talent, it's good for the industry.
• 47:34
  Like, you know, people have options.
• 47:37
  I think that's good. One word we use in target
• 47:39
  archery more than we probably ever should is forgiveness.
• 47:42
  And we heard that word a lot. Yeah.
• 47:44
  Yeah, I use that word. I don't have anything more
• 47:47
  forgiveness, maybe not as much as like, but probably a close
• 47:51
  second. And with the with the different
• 47:55
  bows, some of them depend on your shot style.
• 47:58
  It's like easier to find forgiveness or it's harder.
• 48:00
  And what I mean by that is your good shot should always hit.
• 48:03
  It's where do your bad ones hit? Do they still hit the dot?
• 48:06
  Are they an inch off? Are they 4 inches off?
• 48:08
  Like forgiveness is key. And that's so, so important in
• 48:11
  target archery when you're hunting.
• 48:13
  Anyone can step up and make one good shot.
• 48:15
  Now, if I told you, hey, go shoot 72 good arrows in the wind
• 48:18
  under pressure, it's a little bit different, right?
• 48:20
  Or shoot 90 that you can't miss in Vegas or whatever that is.
• 48:23
  And so for me, I really like to choose the equipment that I know
• 48:28
  I can get the most forgiving for myself, for somebody else that
• 48:31
  may be different for them. Yes.
• 48:37
  On the Bowtech, you better than somebody.
• 48:39
  Else can and you have a bow that you can do more with to do that.
• 48:42
  Yeah. It's like makes it easier
• 48:44
  together. Yeah.
• 48:46
  The Bowtechs. Have so much you can do on them
• 48:48
  you can make it feel like anything.
• 48:49
  So you can run a super aggressive Cam with very short
• 48:53
  valley, you can run a long one. I can eat valley still.
• 48:56
  I just can't. I'm just trying not to laugh.
• 49:02
  I feel like the mic gonna be a hit in the comments.
• 49:04
  I think I should stay. With this I think so too.
• 49:06
  I kind of like it. It's fun.
• 49:08
  I think I actually have. A higher heart rate right now
• 49:12
  because of it so. Did you both shoot in Vegas?
• 49:14
  Did you shoot this year? I would.
• 49:16
  Wouldn't call it that. I participated.
• 49:18
  What did you what? Did you put up?
• 49:19
  What was it? What?
• 49:20
  What was your score? I shot an 895.
• 49:23
  OK, so a 90. 89899. 98 so I mean 298-290-9298.
• 49:31
  Oh, OK, OK. I.
• 49:33
  Mean I was been batting like a little bit like target panic
• 49:36
  stuff. So I was playing with the
• 49:37
  different release and shooting a resistance style release in a
• 49:41
  very high pressure tournament is very unconducive to a good
• 49:46
  outcome. But they're just not made
• 49:48
  because. Working.
• 49:49
  Working through some things and they're just, they're so
• 49:51
  sensitive to finger pressures and how you get your handset in
• 49:55
  the release. And when you're shooting under
• 49:56
  that much pressure, there's a lot of things that happen versus
• 50:01
  what happens in practice. Like your body feels totally
• 50:04
  different. You may be pushing harder, you
• 50:06
  may be pulling harder, or you'll get a bout of nerves that just
• 50:10
  randomly hits. You could be going cruise
• 50:13
  control all the way through the middle of the round, start the
• 50:14
  day good, and then all of a sudden you'll just get one or
• 50:17
  two arrows for whatever reason that it just intensifies.
• 50:22
  And it's almost like, I mean, a couple years ago I missed arrow
• 50:25
  #90 in Vegas like, and it was. Painful.
• 50:29
  So painful. Out of all of the.
• 50:31
  Arrows I have ever missed. Screwed up.
• 50:34
  Or missed or whatever. Like that was the one that was
• 50:38
  like the hardest one to swallow. Oh, I bet.
• 50:40
  And honestly, ever since then, Vegas has been one of the
• 50:43
  hardest tournaments to shoot since that day.
• 50:46
  Like when I missed that arrow because it's like it is all of.
• 50:49
  Mine game I want like. You want it so much worse now
• 50:53
  and the harder, the more you want it, the harder it is to get
• 50:55
  there. And it's like you, I just want
• 50:58
  like that self like validation, like yes, like I can, I can
• 51:02
  still do it, you know, like I can still go shoot 900.
• 51:04
  Do I I know I can shoot 900. I've shot him before in Vegas.
• 51:08
  So it's not like I'm I've never done it before.
• 51:10
  And it's like I'm trying to get the monkey off my back.
• 51:11
  Like I've already been there, done that, I've shot him, but
• 51:14
  it's like trying to do it again now.
• 51:18
  And it's like the try hard factor is so much worse now than
• 51:23
  it used to be. So it's it's Vegas is rough
• 51:26
  every year just because I mean, it's Vegas for one.
• 51:29
  And then always in the back of your mind you're like, don't be
• 51:31
  that dipshit. Then this is number 90.
• 51:33
  OK, the. Other thing is let's loop this
• 51:36
  back to hunting as well, because this is just Archers in general.
• 51:39
  There's some people who just got it and there's some people who
• 51:41
  just don't like we were watching you aim earlier and like you aim
• 51:45
  probably better than both of us do naturally.
• 51:47
  Like you're just very still. You're either you either are or
• 51:50
  you aren't right, Like baseball's.
• 51:52
  One of those like natural born talent sports, like you can be
• 51:56
  really, really good if you put a ton of effort into it, but
• 51:59
  you're never going to be one of the greats, right?
• 52:01
  Like the greats are just great because they have it and they
• 52:04
  got and, and just as much work ethic and just as much work
• 52:07
  ethic. Like, you're not going to be a a
• 52:08
  Barry Bonds or a Shohei Otani like.
• 52:12
  With just work ethic, you got to be a mega special.
• 52:15
  A little bit of like that God. Given talent to be able to like
• 52:17
  actually go exceed what seems humanly possible, so.
• 52:22
  In the archery space and it's the same when you watch people
• 52:25
  hunt, like there's people who are just supernatural and like,
• 52:28
  pick a boat, make it look easy. They don't need to practice a
• 52:30
  whole lot and they're pretty good.
• 52:31
  And there's people who need hours and hours and hundreds and
• 52:34
  hundreds of arrows like more than the other person to, to be
• 52:38
  the same. And so that's different.
• 52:40
  He's always been one who needs more practice.
• 52:42
  I used to be like. Straight hot trash.
• 52:44
  Yeah. Like I had target panic so bad
• 52:47
  when I was a kid and I literally quit shooting archery said screw
• 52:50
  this, I'm done. All I want to do is hunt.
• 52:52
  And I didn't I didn't touch a bow other than a hunting bow for
• 52:55
  probably 7 or 8 years. And then I was, I had a road
• 52:59
  construction job one summer and I was working on the road and I
• 53:02
  saw the bow launch come out and it was what bow was it?
• 53:06
  It was a Hoyt pro comp in like 2013 or 2014.
• 53:10
  And I like saw the bow and I was like, man, that bow looks bad
• 53:13
  ass. And I don't know why or what,
• 53:15
  but I was like, I'm going to buy a bow And I went and literally
• 53:18
  bought an entire like $4000 setup just cuz I was like man,
• 53:22
  that looked cool. I get sparked my interest to go
• 53:25
  like get back into it for whatever reason.
• 53:27
  And I would just basically told myself when I went into it like
• 53:30
  I want to do, I want to actually shoot good.
• 53:32
  I don't want to suck. So I started from basically
• 53:36
  scratch, relearned everything from what I had forgot, you
• 53:40
  know, like kind of forgot the bad habits had been enough time.
• 53:43
  And then like I'd never shot a 300 even at like 10 yards on a
• 53:47
  Vegas face when I was a kid. And within probably two or three
• 53:53
  months of shooting, I find I shot my the 1st 320 yards.
• 53:56
  And then like a month or two after that, I I shot a 30X.
• 54:00
  Yeah. Wow.
• 54:01
  And it was like, yeah, wow. Archery's really not that hard.
• 54:04
  Like everybody thinks archery is this crazy sport and it's so
• 54:07
  hard to do, like, when they're first getting into it.
• 54:09
  But realistically, archery's only as hard as you make it.
• 54:13
  Yeah. And my buddy has such a funny
• 54:15
  statement about that because he's one of those guys that's
• 54:19
  very analytical, like shoots very much like only surprise
• 54:23
  breaks. And he's very good, right?
• 54:24
  Very good. But usually I'll beat him,
• 54:27
  right? And he goes, The thing is,
• 54:29
  you're too stupid to know how easy it is to miss, right?
• 54:33
  So you just go up and put it in there and you don't think about
• 54:35
  it. And I'm like, that is kind of an
• 54:37
  interesting like way to look at it.
• 54:39
  You know, I don't put a whole lot of thought into.
• 54:41
  And granted I didn't hit the middle every single time today,
• 54:44
  but like most of the time I can shoot pretty pretty well.
• 54:48
  Certainly above average and it doesn't take a whole lot of
• 54:51
  thought. Usually less.
• 54:52
  Is more, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 54:55
  So. Archery, we say is 90% mental,
• 54:58
  10% physical. Like the mental game is
• 55:01
  especially at our level with what we're doing is like so, so
• 55:04
  important. And that's like a you got it or
• 55:07
  you don't. You can work hard, you can put
• 55:09
  the time and you can build your mental game up to get there.
• 55:11
  Some people just have it naturally and some people just
• 55:13
  don't like some have to work harder.
• 55:15
  And so, you know, there's probably, I don't even know so
• 55:19
  many backyard pros is what we call them, people that shoot
• 55:21
  incredible, shoot super well, post the same scores we might in
• 55:26
  a tournament. But you take that same person,
• 55:27
  you put them in a tournament in front of thousands of people and
• 55:29
  ask them to do it. They're not going to do that.
• 55:31
  Yeah. So there's there's a big
• 55:32
  difference between shooting a bow good and shooting a bow good
• 55:36
  under pressure, with sponsors, carrying, with media, you know,
• 55:40
  so many crowds, so many. Layers to add add additional.
• 55:44
  That's a mental difference. Like there's some of the best
• 55:47
  Archers in the world probably who don't make it just because
• 55:51
  they don't have the mental game to make it.
• 55:53
  Like Josh, we have a friend and his brother is a pro and an
• 55:56
  incredible and he was so good. His mental game just wasn't that
• 55:58
  good. But he shoots a bow.
• 56:00
  Incredible. And so, you know, again, that's
• 56:02
  different. Like you can hunt, you can still
• 56:04
  kill stuff with nerves if you and kills still, you know,
• 56:07
  succeed. But you can't really do that on
• 56:09
  our side. If you can't get those nerves
• 56:10
  under under control, what would you say?
• 56:12
  This is obviously we're all just going to be guessing here, but
• 56:15
  you 2 have shot so many targets and indoor for so long, unlike
• 56:19
  the Vegas face. If you took just an average 100
• 56:24
  Archers maybe that have never done a shoot just shoot for fun
• 56:27
  or hunt. They whip out the bow and
• 56:29
  November to shoot deer and then put it back away.
• 56:32
  Out of 100 people, how many do you think would hit inside the
• 56:36
  blue like a scoring arrow? 30 times.
• 56:39
  We're talking Bow. Hunters any.
• 56:41
  Yeah. For any if you just, let's just.
• 56:43
  Average. Collective 100 people across the
• 56:45
  board. How many do you think?
• 56:46
  Various skills levels. How many do you think?
• 56:48
  Would put it inside of let's say the blue, the whole, the whole
• 56:51
  scoring. For all. 30 I think you.
• 56:54
  Would at 20 yards, I think pretty much.
• 56:55
  I think everybody would be able to do it.
• 56:58
  What do you mean if you've been at your parent's?
• 56:59
  Shop if you took an. Average of all the skill levels
• 57:02
  from the worst of the worst of the best of the best and kind of
• 57:04
  just found a middle ground average between that.
• 57:07
  I feel like they would be able to keep it.
• 57:09
  I think an. Average would be like 3 misses
• 57:11
  minimum because like a lot of those dudes.
• 57:13
  So out of 100 you think what 70 people would be able to do it
• 57:17
  average or less for just guessing?
• 57:23
  I mean, they're hunters. I would hope they could keep it
• 57:25
  in the blue if you can't. Keep it in the blue at 20 yards.
• 57:27
  You shouldn't be, honey. Now how about?
• 57:29
  How about in now? How about inside the yellow for
• 57:32
  all 30? How many?
• 57:33
  How many out of 100? Do you think that one?
• 57:35
  That's where it significantly. Drops off 20% you.
• 57:38
  Think yeah, probably. Close to that.
• 57:40
  Number. Yeah, 'cause like what?
• 57:41
  Well. You have to.
• 57:42
  Think most like the the big statement is always like as long
• 57:45
  as you can put it in a pie plate or as long as you can put it in
• 57:48
  it. That's like that.
• 57:49
  Old references. Oh, if yeah, I can just hit a
• 57:51
  pie plate at 40 yards like you're good.
• 57:53
  Most people do. And so like they just go down
• 57:56
  and they're like, oh, I'm pretty good.
• 57:57
  If they're just hitting inside that blue basically within
• 58:00
  there, they're not missing the targets, you know, but to
• 58:03
  condense that over half to just the yellow you're going to, I
• 58:08
  don't think they're. Going to cut out over.
• 58:10
  Half of those I think. The difference too, if you said
• 58:14
  can keep most of their arrows in there or 75% of the arrows in
• 58:18
  there, I would say the majority. But the difference is, and we've
• 58:21
  seen this with bow hunters at the shops and I, I actually ran
• 58:23
  an archery shop in Chico for a while too.
• 58:25
  So I'm not unfamiliar to working in a shop and you'll see people
• 58:29
  that are pretty good and then like you had one earlier, you're
• 58:32
  like, oh, that was a bad shot. OK, your bad shot was in the 9.
• 58:34
  But a lot of people who aren't that good, they're bad shots or
• 58:37
  flinches or whatever over there. Yeah, it's it's way out.
• 58:41
  You know, like they'll be pretty good, pretty good.
• 58:43
  And all of a sudden Wham and they miss by three feet and
• 58:45
  you're like, whoa, like it's minimizing those type bad shots
• 58:49
  that would make those people better in the field.
• 58:51
  Like that's where when you start doing the target stuff, I feel
• 58:54
  like you learn to work through a lot of that.
• 58:56
  So those misses are minimal compared to what they used to be
• 58:58
  before this hunting. Season, yeah, and I, I think.
• 59:01
  Just minimizing how much you missed by is so key.
• 59:03
  You know, like we talked about the term forgiveness that we
• 59:06
  threw around a lot and how I always used to practice like I
• 59:08
  never shot faces like this till just when I got the target bow.
• 59:11
  So, but I always think a really good way to practice for your
• 59:14
  average bow hunter is to like try to shoot as tight a group as
• 59:18
  possible and try to like, if you're starting at the size of a
• 59:21
  softball, like maybe one day you can get to a golf ball, you
• 59:24
  know, and then push that distance out.
• 59:27
  I think that's such a good way for people to work on
• 59:30
  forgiveness and consistency. But I think 2 questions I want
• 59:33
  to tackle before we we wrap up this pod is a couple couple hot
• 59:37
  button ones. Couple hot button 1 is heavy ass
• 59:42
  arrows for hunting. Are you guys a fan of the 600
• 59:46
  plus grain single bevel broadhead?
• 59:48
  And if not, why like? Maybe back in the day when bows
• 59:54
  were archaic and or less efficient.
• 59:57
  With energy, yeah, like. It's the whole like FOC game and
• 1:00:02
  all this bullshit and everything people are trying to spew out
• 1:00:05
  now and they're trying to reinvent the wheel.
• 1:00:07
  Like dude, you're shooting a compound bow.
• 1:00:10
  That's. Super efficient broad heads are
• 1:00:13
  insanely sharp. Arrows are way better than they
• 1:00:15
  used to be. Like the componentry, like
• 1:00:17
  everything that goes into building a high quality hunting
• 1:00:20
  arrow nowadays, you don't need this asinine amount of weight to
• 1:00:24
  go shoot a deer. Like you're not hunting a
• 1:00:26
  freaking Tyrannosaurus Rex for God's sake.
• 1:00:28
  Like you're shooting a white tailed deer like 20 yards. 20
• 1:00:31
  yards out of a tree. Stand for the like, that's what.
• 1:00:33
  Like the average bow hunter in America, 20 to 30.
• 1:00:36
  Yards White to 30 yards. That's the most.
• 1:00:37
  Common animal hunting, like you don't need some crazy ass setup
• 1:00:41
  to go shoot these animals. Like we were talking about it
• 1:00:44
  earlier. Like my hunting arrow like is a
• 1:00:46
  little bit heavier, but I'm also shooting 75 lbs on performance.
• 1:00:51
  So it's like my my boat, my arrow weight is not outside of
• 1:00:56
  the realm of what like specs should be, right?
• 1:00:58
  Like I always used to shoot an arrow.
• 1:00:59
  It's like 440 grains, 450 grains somewhere around there.
• 1:01:02
  Like it's just an average. Like if you took the average
• 1:01:04
  hunting arrow, it's probably 420 to 430 grains.
• 1:01:07
  I shot, like I said, 4/24/30. I used to always shoot like a
• 1:01:11
  400 grain arrow ish because I would never run brass inserts.
• 1:01:15
  I always just ran the standard aluminum inserts.
• 1:01:17
  And then it kind of brass started getting a little bit
• 1:01:19
  more popular and everybody started talking about the FOC
• 1:01:21
  game and all this stuff and trying to calculate all your
• 1:01:23
  numbers. Like if you asked me what my
• 1:01:25
  front of center was, I couldn't even tell you within 5% of all
• 1:01:29
  my We've never. Calculated it and now I never
• 1:01:32
  will just because I will not gain the only thing in the
• 1:01:34
  world. And all this like you got to
• 1:01:35
  shoot a 900 grain arrow and it's got to be single bevel.
• 1:01:38
  Like for God's sake, Bomar's over there shooting water
• 1:01:41
  Buffalo with an expandable in Africa like no Cape Buffalo.
• 1:01:44
  Or Cape Buffalo. In Africa, like, you don't need
• 1:01:47
  all this crazy fancy stuff to go kill an animal.
• 1:01:49
  Well, what? Here's the.
• 1:01:50
  Other thing that just kills me they focus on the wrong shit
• 1:01:54
  like if you suck at archery and you get your 17% FOC or whatever
• 1:01:59
  the hell they want like that isn't going to help you kill
• 1:02:02
  animals. Like not doing the flinches we
• 1:02:03
  were just talking about the make you miss the target or miss the
• 1:02:05
  blue or miss the yellow. Like working on your form and
• 1:02:08
  your consistency and all that stuff is 100 times more
• 1:02:11
  important than what grain arrow you have or what FOC you're
• 1:02:14
  running now for specific key animals, Buffalo, giraffe,
• 1:02:21
  things with way thicker hides, thicker rib bones, thicker
• 1:02:24
  things and what we have here in North America.
• 1:02:27
  And then I get it like I've done special arrow builds for those
• 1:02:29
  animals because especially at my drawings and poundage, you have
• 1:02:32
  to, to be successful. That's different.
• 1:02:34
  But like any animal I've haunted here in North America, I run a
• 1:02:37
  395 grand arrow and I've killed anything you can probably think
• 1:02:41
  of with it except Buffalo and a giraffe.
• 1:02:43
  Like most the animals, the bigger ones on behind me on the
• 1:02:46
  wall, I shot the 342 grand arrow.
• 1:02:49
  I did find that my penetration was a little better at 390.
• 1:02:51
  That's why I'm running 390. I tested 3234390 and 4:20 and my
• 1:02:56
  best penetration was the 390 to 400.
• 1:02:59
  I was pretty good at the 4:20 with my bow was slow enough I
• 1:03:01
  couldn't clear the distance I wanted for Western hunting.
• 1:03:04
  And so like I've shot and it's not just like, oh, I hit it
• 1:03:08
  like, no, I'm zipping whitetail. Like I'm shooting right through,
• 1:03:11
  you know, like for me, I don't care what grain I'm shooting.
• 1:03:14
  If I shoot an elk or a deer or whatever, like square in the
• 1:03:17
  shoulder, I'm probably not penetrating.
• 1:03:19
  So to me, shot placement is so much more important than my
• 1:03:23
  arrow box. Yeah.
• 1:03:25
  Facts that James this is James harps on this one a lot.
• 1:03:35
  How do I say this? Politely.
• 1:03:37
  Don't say it politely, yeah. When?
• 1:03:42
  They're talking about. Arrow, arrow weight.
• 1:03:45
  And they're like, well, what about when you got to account
• 1:03:48
  for that bad shot? Like don't you want to have the
• 1:03:51
  penetration to get through that shoulder?
• 1:03:52
  I'm like, well, fuckers, don't you want to more ethically kill
• 1:03:56
  that animal? Like I experienced that and I
• 1:03:59
  told and I shouldn't have. I should never said it.
• 1:04:02
  I did and I jinxed myself and I had the worst season I've had in
• 1:04:05
  my entire 12 years of hunting. It happened.
• 1:04:08
  It was, I joked because James had had a rough year last year
• 1:04:13
  and I was like, holy moly. And I was like, I've never, I've
• 1:04:17
  never shot and not recovered an animal.
• 1:04:19
  Never. This year I.
• 1:04:24
  Made a shot and it looked so good until he turned a little
• 1:04:32
  shabs. I, I my in hunting, I say it's
• 1:04:34
  90% skill, 10% luck because when it comes down to the wire,
• 1:04:39
  there's luck in there that like you just can't help it if those
• 1:04:42
  things happen or don't happen if they.
• 1:04:44
  Were yeah, there's things outside our control and.
• 1:04:46
  I we were in an area where I got to watch that animal.
• 1:04:52
  Across a. Valley come back up a mountain,
• 1:04:55
  run across that mountain and I have never sobbed so hard in my
• 1:05:00
  life. I like it hurt how bad I could
• 1:05:05
  see that animal was hurt and it was like.
• 1:05:10
  No. You shouldn't just want to have
• 1:05:12
  a heavier arrow. So like I can blast through that
• 1:05:15
  shoulder and maybe he will, you know, eventually die in like 8
• 1:05:18
  hours painfully. Absolutely not.
• 1:05:21
  Just make a better fucking shot. Like be a better shot so it.
• 1:05:25
  Does don't take shots outside of your skill.
• 1:05:29
  Level. Yeah, your effective Rangers.
• 1:05:32
  That's that's just what it gets me, you know, a little hot and
• 1:05:35
  heavy when people claim that like, well, there are reasons
• 1:05:39
  for heavy arrows when you have instances like that, when you
• 1:05:41
  make a bad shot. And that to me is like the
• 1:05:44
  world's most asshole excuse you could ever make for running a
• 1:05:50
  heavy arrow. Like you don't have to be a good
• 1:05:53
  shooter as good of a shooter because I run a heavy arrow so I
• 1:05:56
  can blast through more shit. You know, it's like, well, what
• 1:06:00
  are you doing for that animal? Like, are you an ethical person
• 1:06:03
  at all? I don't know.
• 1:06:04
  Like I do get it with bigger animals 1000%.
• 1:06:08
  Like we had to go through that game for the first time when I
• 1:06:11
  wasn't quite as heavy a weight as I was now to shoot an elk and
• 1:06:16
  we're super nervous about that with a 24 1/2 inch straw.
• 1:06:19
  Like am I going to make it anywhere inside this?
• 1:06:23
  Animal to even. You know, kill it, but for like
• 1:06:28
  your everyday animal. Yeah, it.
• 1:06:32
  That sort of like I'd say there's only.
• 1:06:33
  About 3 animals on the entire planet really that you would
• 1:06:38
  need to build like a specifically heavy arrow for.
• 1:06:41
  Yeah, I, I. I would agree.
• 1:06:43
  And and I mean, Josh and I just talked about it on the video
• 1:06:45
  video we did. But like in all of my years bow
• 1:06:50
  hunting, shooting a lot of big game animals with a bow and
• 1:06:53
  personally and then seeing other people, usually a miss or a bad
• 1:06:57
  hit is because their arrow didn't get to the animal fast
• 1:07:00
  enough. I was just almost always animal
• 1:07:02
  reaction, right? Or just a bad shot.
• 1:07:05
  But more often than not, the bad shots caused by the animal
• 1:07:08
  reacting. So by shooting a a heavier,
• 1:07:11
  slower arrow, especially beyond 40 yards, you're just making
• 1:07:17
  your chances of a poor hit higher.
• 1:07:20
  In my opinion. You're giving the animal more
• 1:07:22
  time. To react exactly.
• 1:07:23
  The thing that kills me is when I said I did that testing, well
• 1:07:27
  I'm like right on the cusp of like being OK to shoot an
• 1:07:30
  expandable but maybe on a bigger animal I should shoot a fixed
• 1:07:33
  blade for penetration purposes. It's different when you start
• 1:07:36
  talking woman specs, of course. 24 is drawing, 27 is drawing 50
• 1:07:40
  pounds, 60 lbs. Like when you're on the cusp of
• 1:07:43
  the energy difference like this is those are the people that
• 1:07:47
  should be discussing what arrow weight, what front of center,
• 1:07:51
  what bill do I need? Like speed verse race, you know,
• 1:07:54
  verse arrow weight ratio it. But here's where the fad is the
• 1:07:59
  problem. It's these dudes that shoot 80
• 1:08:01
  lbs at a 29 to 30 inch draw length that are like you got to
• 1:08:06
  have a 7 grain 100 grain aero for a whitetail.
• 1:08:08
  Like they could shoot anything that wouldn't blow their bow up
• 1:08:12
  at that spec. And like 5.
• 1:08:14
  Grains per pound and zip, anything that they want to
• 1:08:16
  shoot, shoot through shoulders, whatever.
• 1:08:18
  So I think the issue that I have with that whole FOC like thing
• 1:08:22
  is it's the people who don't need to be worried about it are
• 1:08:25
  the ones that like are obsessed fanboys and the people like us
• 1:08:29
  who actually need to be conscious of an aero build.
• 1:08:31
  It almost like takes away from what we need to do to be
• 1:08:35
  successful, because they can be successful either way.
• 1:08:37
  Yeah, it doesn't matter. That's a good point.
• 1:08:39
  And I think it's just. Focusing on specifically for
• 1:08:42
  women when they get into these, like, gotta build the heavier
• 1:08:46
  error. It's like you're taking away
• 1:08:49
  from, like, really thinking about what you should actually
• 1:08:53
  be doing to make it better, which is like, for me, I can't
• 1:08:56
  change the length of my arms. Yeah.
• 1:08:58
  So the only thing I can change is the speed of my bow.
• 1:09:01
  So how do I do that? I increase the poundage.
• 1:09:04
  It's like, well, if you wanna. And then if you do wanna run a
• 1:09:07
  heavier arrow, you're going to need to increase that poundage
• 1:09:10
  because otherwise you're just slowing that arrow down and
• 1:09:13
  you're slowing your shot down, which gives more time for the
• 1:09:16
  animal to react. So it's like, why bother with
• 1:09:18
  the heavy fucking arrow first? Like build your poundage up
• 1:09:21
  first. And while you're doing that,
• 1:09:23
  learn to be a more accurate shooter first.
• 1:09:26
  Then if you want to go build your fucking ridiculous, you
• 1:09:29
  know. Tyrannosaurus Rex We always.
• 1:09:32
  Like Jurassic? Park Arrows be my guess.
• 1:09:36
  Go for. It I.
• 1:09:37
  Just think it's nuts. I do think as I get more and
• 1:09:40
  more into learning and hearing from people who like know more
• 1:09:44
  of the techie stuff, I think there is definitely importance
• 1:09:49
  behind it. I just think.
• 1:09:52
  I think the. Industry as a whole is looking
• 1:09:54
  for a way to like, talk about some evolution and.
• 1:09:58
  Way like you see it always it's almost like it's like a wheel,
• 1:10:02
  right? Like there's ten years ago speed
• 1:10:04
  was king. Like there was all these bows,
• 1:10:06
  like they had turbo cams and super short brace heights and
• 1:10:10
  things like that, and they were just gnarly to draw back and it
• 1:10:12
  was miserable. Yeah, the old.
• 1:10:15
  RPM 360, baby. Yeah, like things.
• 1:10:17
  Like that, they're just crazy. They just were horrible to draw.
• 1:10:20
  Oh yeah, you got crazy fast speeds out of them.
• 1:10:23
  Now it's like everybody's like, well, I don't want that.
• 1:10:25
  I want something that's smooth, Smooth, no vibration.
• 1:10:28
  They're quiet and they're not really caring about speed.
• 1:10:31
  And it's like, I think you're going to see like the speed
• 1:10:34
  train come back into play here. I think in.
• 1:10:37
  The. Next couple years I agree, but
• 1:10:39
  it's like I've killed the bull, I've killed the Bullock almost
• 1:10:42
  every single year since I could start hunting elk and I've shot
• 1:10:45
  more elk with a sub 400 grand arrow than I have a + 400 grand
• 1:10:50
  arrow. My arrow used to literally weigh
• 1:10:51
  396 grands. I shot an Axis 400 cut to 26 1/2
• 1:10:55
  inches with three blazer veins, 100 grain broadhead and a
• 1:10:58
  standard like 16 grain insert. And I've got more pass throughs
• 1:11:02
  with that arrow on elk, anywhere from 15 to 60 yard shots, you
• 1:11:07
  know what I mean, than I have since I started shooting a 440
• 1:11:11
  grain arrow, shooting an 80 LB bow.
• 1:11:14
  So it's like it's all about shot placement, shot placement,
• 1:11:17
  situational animals. You could shoot the same animal
• 1:11:19
  with 15 different arrows and get 14 different results, 100%.
• 1:11:22
  Yeah, so. 100% I mean it's. It's so dependent on whether the
• 1:11:26
  animal reacts or flinches or tenses a muscle or something,
• 1:11:30
  how your arrow hits him, things like that.
• 1:11:32
  So also like. Especially 'cause you know the
• 1:11:35
  three of us run 2 blade expandables, it really matters a
• 1:11:39
  lot if you hit them horizontally or vertically. 100% Yeah, big
• 1:11:42
  time and depend on. Where you hit like and where
• 1:11:45
  saved you and the other way, correct?
• 1:11:46
  Yeah, A. 100% So yeah, I think that's a good take.
• 1:11:50
  All those takes on the on the heavy arrows are interesting.
• 1:11:54
  I mean, if I had to go shoot through a Volkswagen carburetor,
• 1:11:56
  I'd probably build the single bevel 1000 grainer, you know,
• 1:12:00
  but I'm not shooting through an engine block, you know what I
• 1:12:02
  mean? Most of the time I want.
• 1:12:04
  To point out that I think this fad has done poorly, I'm.
• 1:12:09
  Going to throw some. Dealers back east under the bus,
• 1:12:11
  like out here on the West Coast, you will see we're shooting for
• 1:12:15
  the shots, right? Western style hunting.
• 1:12:16
  Everybody knows that shops carry different spine arrows.
• 1:12:20
  They carry all the spines. You can walk in and find a 500
• 1:12:22
  if that's what you need. You know you can walk in and
• 1:12:23
  find a 400. This heavy arrow fat has gotten
• 1:12:27
  so bad. The back east where people hunt
• 1:12:28
  whitetail because they're convinced they need heavy
• 1:12:30
  arrows. Shops are ordering arrows in 250
• 1:12:32
  and 300 spine and they're not ordering anything weaker because
• 1:12:36
  it's light. And so you would walk in or I
• 1:12:38
  would walk in and they're going to say, oh, no, just shoot this
• 1:12:41
  arrow. You're shooting arrows that are
• 1:12:42
  not fine for your bow properly. It's not going to be as
• 1:12:44
  forgiving. It's not going to be as accurate
• 1:12:46
  at our speeds. Again, the deer can react so
• 1:12:49
  much more as the arrows getting there slower.
• 1:12:51
  And so I think the reason I'm anti against that, right?
• 1:12:56
  It's like if you want to run a heavy arrow, that's fine.
• 1:12:57
  I'm not knocking you for doing that, but don't make it such a
• 1:13:00
  fad that like people are now, it's writing equipment that
• 1:13:03
  isn't actually correct for their bow to get such a heavy arrow
• 1:13:08
  because forgiveness is so much more important.
• 1:13:10
  Than. Going from 4 to 500 grades,
• 1:13:12
  Yeah, yeah. Western hunting has become such
• 1:13:14
  a fantasy. I know it has.
• 1:13:15
  Yeah, it's been interesting, even more so in the.
• 1:13:17
  Past five years, yeah. And for North America, like the
• 1:13:21
  pinnacle is an elk. Like you hear about it and from
• 1:13:25
  everybody back East and Midwest, like if you asked 95% of the bow
• 1:13:29
  hunters in America, like if you could have any hunt out West,
• 1:13:33
  what would you go do? I mean, 90% of them are going to
• 1:13:36
  say elk 100%. And it's like I look at, I mean,
• 1:13:39
  granted, elk is my favorite animal to hunt, but I grew, I
• 1:13:41
  grew up hunting elk. So it's a little different for
• 1:13:44
  me. Like I don't look at elk like
• 1:13:46
  they're some Unicorn like a creature like did it so.
• 1:13:50
  Much, but I that's like. What I still want for you,
• 1:13:52
  that's more like. Hunting a whitetail for people
• 1:13:54
  exactly like. Like those guys which I really
• 1:13:56
  sleep whitetail hunting, right? Like that's the same thing I
• 1:14:00
  fall into with elk hunting. But I also am not going to go
• 1:14:05
  back east knowing I'm hunting a really flighty, fast moving
• 1:14:08
  animal, you know, at times. Am I going to go build a 300
• 1:14:12
  grain arrow so I have a 400 foot a second bow for it?
• 1:14:14
  No, like it's I'm going to use like my same normal build spec
• 1:14:18
  that's getting good solid performance and shooting.
• 1:14:20
  But I'm not going to completely change my entire setup to go
• 1:14:23
  hunt one specific animal where. You guys back east do that?
• 1:14:27
  Simple arrow. Builds.
• 1:14:29
  Forget FOC, forget any of that stuff.
• 1:14:32
  Pick your arrow. I don't even care what it is.
• 1:14:34
  Pick an Eason axis. If you want a little bit heavy
• 1:14:36
  arrow, pick an FMJ or an FMJ Max like whatever it is, pick the
• 1:14:39
  new 5 O. If you want a lighter arrow,
• 1:14:41
  pick the arrow that you want, cut it to the right length,
• 1:14:45
  throw in any of the outserts inserts, whatever that they have
• 1:14:48
  on the end, fletch it up, knock and throw 100 grain broadhead on
• 1:14:51
  it and that's probably where you should be if you're using the
• 1:14:53
  proper spine arrow. Like I could go buy a 300 spine
• 1:14:56
  arrow that would give me way more weight or way more this.
• 1:14:59
  But I would way rather see people build the correct arrow
• 1:15:03
  spine for their setup so they have forgiveness, then try to
• 1:15:07
  cheat the system to gain weight and then lose forgiveness.
• 1:15:11
  Yeah. Yeah, I, I think it's important
• 1:15:14
  definitely to just not overcomplicate it and certainly
• 1:15:18
  not look at things as like A1 size fits all.
• 1:15:20
  And I think that's a bit of the slump with that strategy.
• 1:15:24
  Again, I think some places maybe as there's validity, but
• 1:15:27
  probably not in most cases. And it's like you, they're
• 1:15:30
  trying, it's being made to be like a blanket thing that's just
• 1:15:33
  true for everybody. The other one, I think this will
• 1:15:35
  be a good one to close on. I think there's been a good pod.
• 1:15:38
  I really do. It's been good.
• 1:15:39
  But my last one, OK, we talked about it a little in the video
• 1:15:43
  we filmed earlier. All of us know Mr. Joel Turner,
• 1:15:46
  right? All of us.
• 1:15:47
  I've shot with him, I've done videos with him.
• 1:15:51
  What are your thoughts on the shooting method that he teaches?
• 1:15:54
  Because and he he wouldn't say this.
• 1:15:57
  I don't believe he didn't, to me at least, but a lot of people
• 1:16:00
  are taking that as A1 size fits all strategy, I would say.
• 1:16:05
  And again, I'm not saying Joel's saying that, but what do you
• 1:16:08
  guys think of that shooting style and who do you think it's
• 1:16:12
  A1 size fits all or do you think it's kind of a situational thing
• 1:16:16
  for different people? I think there's a lot of
• 1:16:19
  different. I mean, I know there's a lot of
• 1:16:21
  different guys out there that coach in various ways, right?
• 1:16:24
  I think the best advice I would give to someone who is either
• 1:16:28
  would going to any one of the numerous coaches out there to go
• 1:16:31
  through like a week long course or a weekend course or whatever
• 1:16:34
  it may be, right? Like you need to have the
• 1:16:36
  ability to compartmentalize different aspects and features
• 1:16:39
  that they teach. Because just because one part
• 1:16:42
  this method works for one person does not mean the same exact
• 1:16:46
  method is going to work for 10 other people.
• 1:16:48
  So you need to be able to pick and choose things within each
• 1:16:51
  course that apply to yourself that you can actually
• 1:16:55
  comprehend, understand, figure out like, OK, yeah, can I do
• 1:16:58
  this repeatable or can I make this work?
• 1:17:01
  Or, hey, I tried this one one part of your coaching method and
• 1:17:07
  it gave me way more anxiety or my aiming got way worse and I
• 1:17:11
  started punching the trigger worse or whatever it may be,
• 1:17:13
  right? Like you just need to be able to
• 1:17:15
  look at each individual thing and be like, yes, this works,
• 1:17:17
  this works, this works. Those two things.
• 1:17:19
  I absolutely know it's not going to work for me.
• 1:17:21
  So I'm not even going to attempt it because I know it's probably
• 1:17:23
  going to make me worse. So I mean, I feel like there's a
• 1:17:25
  lot of that, but I mean, a lot of the stuff he teaches is good.
• 1:17:29
  It's just whether your brain is wired correctly to be able to
• 1:17:33
  implement exactly what he says into your entire shot process.
• 1:17:39
  So I'm. Stealing this from his finger.
• 1:17:41
  Now give me that. I agree with everything you just
• 1:17:46
  said. So to add to that, like I met
• 1:17:50
  Joel before Joel was Joel right before anyone really before shot
• 1:17:54
  IQ was big before Bodie started winning everything and everybody
• 1:17:56
  started looking at that. And I always had an issue where
• 1:18:00
  I would lock low on the target and I would aim pretty
• 1:18:02
  consistently. I would just sight in and just
• 1:18:04
  aim there. Like my pen name was city or
• 1:18:05
  there worked for years. I did it for a lot of years.
• 1:18:08
  Joel hit me up out of the blue and was like, I think I can fix
• 1:18:11
  you. And I'm like, who's this fucking
• 1:18:13
  guy? Like as if I haven't tried all
• 1:18:16
  these things under the sun, right.
• 1:18:18
  Like I've done every aiming drill and every everything you
• 1:18:20
  could come up with and I hadn't fixed it.
• 1:18:22
  And and I won't give away a lot of his secrets, but the one
• 1:18:25
  thing that he did change in my shot shot process through that
• 1:18:30
  because I heard about and I was like, yeah, if you think you
• 1:18:32
  can, I'll hear you out. Like I'm super open minded to to
• 1:18:35
  stuff. And again, it's not a it's not a
• 1:18:38
  one-size-fits-all. Let me leave with that.
• 1:18:40
  Like neither is equipment, neither is form, neither is
• 1:18:43
  anything. So if there's a coach out there
• 1:18:44
  that is telling you this is the best way and the only way,
• 1:18:47
  fucking run Like that's the worst person you could listen
• 1:18:50
  to. And so I was coming down, I was
• 1:18:54
  shooting a thumb button, I think at the time, and I would come
• 1:18:56
  down and I'd wrap my thumb as I was still coming down to the
• 1:18:58
  target. And then I would just go past
• 1:19:00
  the middle and then I like couldn't get it back up.
• 1:19:01
  And so the one big thing that helped me, and I still use this
• 1:19:04
  from his shot process today was I get the pin to the middle and
• 1:19:07
  I stop it. Then I put my thumb on the
• 1:19:10
  trigger, or then I roll to the click, or then I wrap my pointer
• 1:19:13
  finger and taking that extra half second to a second to stop
• 1:19:17
  the pin in the middle and then wrap my brain fought me less as
• 1:19:20
  far as aiming low. So that was the first time I'd
• 1:19:22
  ever worked with Joel. And some of what he said really,
• 1:19:24
  really resonated. Some of it didn't.
• 1:19:27
  So I just gave you one example that really worked for me.
• 1:19:29
  Now I'm going to give you 1. Joel.
• 1:19:31
  Don't hate me because I'm friends with them, but I'm
• 1:19:33
  honest, right? I'm going to give you the blunt
• 1:19:34
  thing. I watched a video that he posted
• 1:19:35
  the other day. Don't hate me, Joel, just say
• 1:19:38
  this again. And it was please, it was.
• 1:19:42
  And he knows that I disagree with him on this.
• 1:19:44
  I've said it, but he he posted a video with like a target and he
• 1:19:47
  was holding the lens and he said like, here's here's like a nicer
• 1:19:53
  aim and whatever. And then here's the aim I would
• 1:19:56
  like you guys to see. And like, I looked at that and
• 1:20:00
  was like, like, please God tell me people aren't going out and
• 1:20:03
  trying to make their bow aim like that, like.
• 1:20:07
  In theory, what he's saying is true.
• 1:20:08
  And here's the difference. People believe that like
• 1:20:10
  wherever your pin is is where it's going to hit.
• 1:20:12
  What he's saying as far as fast movement, you can bring it back
• 1:20:15
  to the center. Like the second your pin leaves
• 1:20:18
  the middle, your subconscious mind, not your conscious mind,
• 1:20:21
  is already bringing your pin back to the middle before your
• 1:20:23
  conscious mind realizes it's even left, right?
• 1:20:25
  That's automatic. You don't think about that once
• 1:20:28
  you've done it. And So what he's saying is with
• 1:20:31
  quick movement, it comes back quicker.
• 1:20:32
  He's not wrong. He also says that you don't have
• 1:20:36
  to have your pin in the middle when the bow fires to hit the
• 1:20:38
  middle. That is also true.
• 1:20:40
  I had so many arrows this weekend break like in the 9 ring
• 1:20:42
  that I got to the 10 in the X ring because they were coming
• 1:20:45
  back to the middle when they fired.
• 1:20:47
  So his point in what he's saying is true, but here's where I
• 1:20:52
  differ. Why?
• 1:20:53
  If I can make my bow aim better, aim slower, aim Stiller, aim in
• 1:20:58
  a tighter aiming pattern, why would I not want that?
• 1:21:01
  Because that's obviously minimizing what the misses are
• 1:21:04
  going to be. Then I'm still implementing the
• 1:21:06
  same thing as I've always aimed the way that he's talking.
• 1:21:08
  Yeah, it moves and you just trust it and you pull and you
• 1:21:10
  aim and you hope it gets there if it breaks at the right time.
• 1:21:12
  And it will. And it can, but I would not tell
• 1:21:16
  people to go make their bow aim worse.
• 1:21:17
  Or take all your weight off and just let it aim horrible.
• 1:21:19
  And like what? I try to explain the case, then
• 1:21:21
  why doesn't? All target shooters just take
• 1:21:22
  all these and arms off their bows, you know?
• 1:21:25
  What the one thing too that he always says, and it is true, the
• 1:21:27
  more weight you put on the bow the slower the aim gets.
• 1:21:30
  But for me it's also the size of the aiming pattern.
• 1:21:33
  When I take a lot of the weight off on a Vegas face, I would
• 1:21:36
  literally move center 8 to center 8 any given direction.
• 1:21:41
  If I have to go shoot a 28X game to go win a tournament and my
• 1:21:45
  pin is in the 8 ring a lot of the time, I'm sorry, it's not
• 1:21:48
  going to you're not going to do that.
• 1:21:49
  Now if I can add the weight and lessen the pattern to where it's
• 1:21:52
  mainly in the 10 with a little bit tweener nine, yeah, that's a
• 1:21:56
  little bit more achievable. So for me, the weight does slow
• 1:21:59
  it down, but it's more to help reduce that aiming pattern.
• 1:22:04
  And the other thing, I have my own mental thing that I I've
• 1:22:10
  been attempting to finish for like 2 years and I just haven't
• 1:22:13
  because I'm so busy. It wouldn't contradict his, it
• 1:22:16
  could go in conjunction with it. But he's only teaching
• 1:22:21
  conscious. He's only teaching what you
• 1:22:23
  consciously think, what you consciously do, and all this
• 1:22:26
  stuff. Like our conscious mind is 10%
• 1:22:28
  of our brain. There's the other 90% that also
• 1:22:32
  is important that he doesn't talk about really.
• 1:22:35
  And so I don't think that there is anyone coach or one person
• 1:22:40
  who has all the answers or who knows everything.
• 1:22:43
  And we were talking about type A and type B just aiming
• 1:22:45
  different. Like this thing might really
• 1:22:48
  resonate with type A brain and this thing might really resonate
• 1:22:51
  with type B, but like, not crossover.
• 1:22:53
  And So what Tate said was perfect.
• 1:22:55
  It's I don't live or die or swear by anybody.
• 1:22:57
  Like if everyone just watched whatever I put out and then does
• 1:23:00
  it, I say all the time like don't just do what I do do do
• 1:23:03
  the test and do what's best for you and yourself.
• 1:23:06
  I'll never tell you like this is the best way or the only way
• 1:23:08
  because I'm that would be wrong. But so taking all the knowledge
• 1:23:13
  like taking this from Joel because this works for you and
• 1:23:16
  this from someone else and this from this pro Archer and this
• 1:23:18
  from this YouTube. And if you can take that step
• 1:23:20
  and piece it together, you can be really fucking good.
• 1:23:24
  But if you try so hard to force someone else's shot process,
• 1:23:28
  mental process, form equipment build on you and it doesn't
• 1:23:32
  work, at the end of the day that's hurting you more than if
• 1:23:35
  you probably just did it yourself.
• 1:23:36
  So going out and wanting. To wear Shaq's basketball shoes,
• 1:23:40
  like they don't fit. They don't fit.
• 1:23:41
  It's the same thing. Like people ask us all the time,
• 1:23:44
  like, well, how much weight do you run on your front bar versus
• 1:23:46
  your back bar? I don't want to tell them.
• 1:23:47
  I don't want to answer well, I'll.
• 1:23:50
  I, I can give you like a rate, the ratio I run, but I'm not
• 1:23:53
  going to tell you like, hey, put 13 2/3 on your front and 17 1/2
• 1:23:58
  on your back bar because that's going to aim for you if.
• 1:24:02
  I told people aim like hot trash.
• 1:24:04
  Yeah, I run. Oh, I run 24 on the front and 42
• 1:24:07
  on the back. Yeah, go try that.
• 1:24:09
  Like the average person who shoots their bow once every
• 1:24:11
  never. Like they wouldn't even be able
• 1:24:12
  to hold that up. They would implode.
• 1:24:14
  And so I think coaching is important and it's necessary.
• 1:24:19
  And I think when everyone has their own style, as long as
• 1:24:22
  people can understand that there's different parts that
• 1:24:24
  will work for them and there's certain parts that won't to be
• 1:24:27
  accepting of that. And I think from the coach's
• 1:24:28
  side, they also need to be respectful of that with the
• 1:24:30
  different Archers, right? Like I have picked different
• 1:24:34
  pieces from different pro Archers and different people
• 1:24:37
  along my archery journey that I've implemented into my own and
• 1:24:40
  turn it into something that works for me.
• 1:24:42
  And that would be my best advice.
• 1:24:43
  It's like, don't be afraid to test things, don't be afraid to
• 1:24:46
  try things, but don't feel like that just because someone like
• 1:24:49
  Paige Pierce or Joel Turner tells you to do it, that you
• 1:24:52
  should do it and it should work for you.
• 1:24:53
  That's not the case, so shop. Shop a la carte, not meal.
• 1:24:58
  Yes. Yeah.
• 1:24:59
  I think. That makes a lot of sense.
• 1:25:01
  I think that makes a lot of sense, you know, because
• 1:25:04
  baseball's a great example. One pitching coach could go give
• 1:25:07
  Clayton Kershaw some advice on how to pitch.
• 1:25:10
  You throw a better curveball, but it may not work from that
• 1:25:14
  guy. It's like their arms and bodies
• 1:25:16
  just work different. Whereas like he might get advice
• 1:25:19
  on how to throw a pitch from someone else.
• 1:25:21
  That and it just. Clicks works better.
• 1:25:23
  You know, it's not to say either of the teachers were bad or
• 1:25:26
  trash, it's just the information didn't work from that person to
• 1:25:30
  that person. I think that's key.
• 1:25:32
  But what a great pod. Thank you guys for sitting down,
• 1:25:35
  having us up here. We did take forever to plan it,
• 1:25:38
  but that's what happens when you're doing a lot of cool, fun
• 1:25:40
  shit, you know, but we'll do we'll do it again sometime.
• 1:25:43
  We got another day of filming. It's going to be a lot of fun.
• 1:25:47
  So be sure to subscribe to page on YouTube, Instagram and go get
• 1:25:53
  some wins and Tate sell the shit out of bow techs.
• 1:25:56
  Let's go there. We go, Yeah.
• 1:25:59
  So that's it. Appreciate y'all bye.