Latest / The Cine-Files / 480 WHIPLASH Part 1

Transcript

480 WHIPLASH Part 1 · The Cine-Files

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_09]: You are a worthless, friendless, faggot-lip little piece of shit whose mommy left daddy, once you figured out he wasn't Eugene O'Neill and it was now weeping and slavering all over my drum set like a fucking nine-year-old girl.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_09]: So for the final, father fucking time!
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_09]: Say it louder!
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm upset!
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello, and welcome once again to the cinephiles where each week we enter the world of a great film where he explores themes, the history, the filmmaking, and the influence it has on us today.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: My name is Steve Morrison, I make sure you make sure.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Again, not my tempo.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: Not my tempo, do that intro again.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello and welcome to the cinephiles.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: No, Mike, no.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: Was that, are you dragging?
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: One more time.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello, welcome to the center, but no, no, see now how you're going to fast.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: Now you rush, John, I'm upset, I'm upset, say it louder, I'm upset.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: So welcome to the set of files, I am Steve Morris, and this is my very, very demanding partner, John Roca, hello, everyone, just little playful intro as we get into this film.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: I am John Roca, right, a producer,
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: And of course, not only do I need my very challenging partner John to do the show, but we also need our extremely challenging and incredibly supportive friends on Patreon.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: And if you want to listen to ad free versions of the show, which you can also get on Apple podcasts, you could do it at patreon.com slash the cinephiles where you would have access to other features, like asking questions about a movie we're covering.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll hear some of those today, as well as joining our advisory board, and we have a meeting.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: means going on just about the time this episode will be released.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: So you can get in for June's advisory board, meaning by signing up at patreon.com slash the cinephiles.
• 1:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, another way you can help support our show is when you listen to our show, if you listen to the ads on our show for a lot of you who do, you hear, you're going to hear ads for hymns for better help for quince, for a number of people who sponsor companies, whether who sponsor us here on the show.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you like any of their products or services or if they appeal to you,
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: We encourage you to use our code because you get a big discounts and B, you signal to those companies that they should keep going back every month to support us here on the center files.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: And today's movie, John is one that we have been talking about for a long time.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: We've been wanting to do for a long time.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: The 10th anniversary came up a few years ago and we talked about doing it.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it was finally in our meeting with our advisory board that we finally said, let's push the button on whiplash.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, John.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know how you first came to this film?
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I'm pretty sure I saw this with our group of friends back in 2014.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think because we were still kind of a few years out of Florida State.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there was this idea of the kid being brow-beed by a mentor.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think the trailer was appealing.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: Jackie Simmons was becoming a name for a lot of us as well.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so I think there was incredible appeal to see this movie.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, I just remember being absolutely blown away by it.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I didn't think I saw it opening weekend.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I waited for other people to kind of go and see it and be like, we'll be curious to see what you think because of how it ends.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so I just remember that being something I focused on as I was watching the movie and sure enough, I think this is still a film that you can debate about the ending and we will when that time comes.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: we definitely will.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Spoiler alert is we get questions from Patreon and many of the questions focused on the ending.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we definitely have a lot to talk about there.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: For me, I did not see it in the theater.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is kind of the time where I had a little kid and we didn't go to the movies very much.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't see it when it Oscar time came around.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: So I hadn't seen it when JK1 the Oscar.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't see it for probably a year or two later when Karen and I finally sat down and watched it.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it was one of the, I'm, I'm sure you have this all the time where you have people going, oh, you got to see this thing then.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: You got, you haven't seen that yet.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: You haven't seen that.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Finally, we sat down to watch it.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: And man, this movie doesn't disappoint.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Both in terms of the performances.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: But also, I think this is a movie where you go like, oh, we have a director.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there is a person that has a vision of how to make a film and how he wants to make a film.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that, of course, is Damian Shazel.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think this is the arrival of an important film.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll see how just how important a filmmaker he is down the line, but he has made important films, you know?
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I agree.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: 100% and he's a filmmaker that, you know,
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: has explored multiple genres.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: And for me, he's made some really incredible films.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's almost like Denis Villeneuve liked.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't mean that in any way as a slight.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean that he is not as great as Denis, but I think his vision is just a notch below Denis, but no less significant or interesting or fascinating to watch.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, so a little bit of pre-production, uh, not surprisingly, uh, Damian fell in love with the drums as a kid.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, he became obsessed with drums, wanted to be a drummer.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: He had the headphones with Buddy Rich, on and his head.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: He was practicing his practicing, and then in high school, he was in the studio band of a very, very intense instructor.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: who I believe has passed away in 2003, which is part of why Damian felt comfortable writing this script, but that is very much what this is based on, but what's really going on is Damian has another movie that he's trying to sell and he's getting really frustrated because he cannot get anyone to bite on a movie called La La Land, that he's written.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it was while he was trying to get financing for La La Land that he sat down to write the script for Whiplash.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it got enough interest that, and Blum House, the studio is very important in this.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: It got enough interest that Blum House was willing to put up a little bit of money for him to make a short.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is one of the great stories of how do you get your work out there in Hollywood?
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: How do you get your name as a director?
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, one of the netways is through
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: The Sundance Film Festival and getting a shortness Sundance, which is just about impossible, but he does shoot this short and goes into Sundance in 2013.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, wow.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's got to lay the groundwork for what he was, it's actually a blade, right?
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a blade was a short and became a larger movie, yeah.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: And basically what the short is, is it's just the scene where it's Andrew's first day with studio band where he yells at the kid who is out of tune and kicks him out of the band.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and that kid, by the way, played by the same kid that plays it in the feature.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: And Fletcher is played in the short by JK Simmons, who just tears the whole thing up.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, JK Simmons, fantastic actor.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: You see him in Oz, you see him in Lawn Order, and of course in the Justice League movie.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's just an incredible actor.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's done so many great, so many great films and TV shows.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: And always delivers in his performance.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: And here,
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Man, I mean, you know, you as an actor, you're so great, but sometimes you need that one role that like really puts the spotlight on you and not every great character actor gets it, right?
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Gandal feeding this brand, oh, certainly.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: And JK Simmons here in this role, just absolutely went next level with his performance.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it really points out like something we've been talking about on the show for years, which is that there's a perception that cream always rises to the top and you will if you work hard and if you're talented, you'll you'll you'll make it.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think that's true at all.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think your experience shows that's not true at all.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: Which means there are a lot of JK Simmons around.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, who are great working actors who just need someone to give a
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Other JK Simmons is under the surface that we don't see.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not that it was destiny that we would see him.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's that it was unlikely that we would see him.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: But we were fortunate that he got this role.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, things lined up, right?
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because the budget was only 3.3 million.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're not going to get how many high priced actors when your budget is only 3.3 million for your film.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: You want to get someone solid, who's got a name, who's going to deliver, and who's excited by the script, and clearly JK was.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and to be clear, they got JK for the short.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: He is in the short, which had nothing near 3.3 million, which me and for an established actor to show up to do a short is like, you know.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's quite a score.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the movie, and I'm telling you, I watched the short, you can see the director.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's so many of the techniques you'll see in the movie, the staccato editing rhythm, the quick shots to instruments, the close ups, the intensity of the performances.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's all there in the short.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a big hit at Sundance.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: It wins the award for best short.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: And suddenly, there are investors willing to put up, as you said, that $3.3 million
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Everything's levels, right?
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: You get that short.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: You get it out there.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: People like it and I was like, okay, now you've got to make a whole film.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have enough content?
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Can, sorry, content.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: We've got to say that word, but do you have enough stories to tell to fill out a whole script?
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you create a great film off of this short?
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: That doesn't always happen, too.
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sling blade, whiplash, these are the exceptions to the rule.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: There are a lot of films that were shorts that became films that just didn't work.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, this is one of the many places that I've blown it in my career when we had Operation Siren, which you were in, which was based on the web series that I did that we did an interactive version.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, was it Sundance?
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: And had I been smart, I would have shown up with a feature script for Siren ready to go.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I didn't.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I remember having a meeting, and it just, you know, I was I was young at the time.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like,
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but the classic meeting where they're like, okay, were you taking this next?
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I did not have the immediate answer of, I'm going to do this and this and this and this and this and that and that was just such a moment of, oh yeah, because you know, it's not like someone rolls out the red carpet.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's that you get like one little finger hold on a possibility of an opportunity that you have to make the most of in that second.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: As Colossus has told us, there are four or five moments.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Four or five moments.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: One thing that's interesting about the short is that in a way, they had more time and were less rushed to making the short than they were making the movie.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: The short shot in like four days or five days, I think, to shoot one 13-minute scene.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, the movie, the feature shot in 19 days.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
• 10:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: So when they had, when they, you know, that one scene that they did for the short had they had like two to three times as much time to do it for the short, then they did when they had to come back and do the scene for real for the feature.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't mean for real like a short is not real.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's real.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Just saying it's just crazy to me.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: They get $3.3 billion and therefore have to work faster.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: It started shooting in September of 2013.
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: It shot almost entirely in LA.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: So all those exterior New York streets that you're seeing, they're almost all LA.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: They did one like two-day trip when they shot the exterior of Carnegie Hall, everything else is here.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Downtown, yeah.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, smart locations people can totally make downtown LA look like New York.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: I have done it in the past.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, Toronto has looked like every city in the minute for God's sake.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: And by the way, so Miles teller, obviously reading, he's, you know, plays underneath him and he's lead, what Damon Chisel says is that he had seen him in rabbit hole and always wanted to work with him ever since and it was just a question of the drumming and then he finds out that Miles had been playing drum since he was 15 where he played in a rock band,
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: and that kind of sealed the deal.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: Shall we get into the film?
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh wow, yes, let's do it.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's it.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we start in the black.
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: And of course, the first thing we're going to hear is the sound of the drums.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: We hear this sound of a snare drum, goop slowly growing faster until it becomes a drum roll.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is very much exactly what happens at the end of the movie, where you see Neiman, do that really slow drum roll that then builds back up as he's connecting with JK Simmons.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: That ending is exactly what we're hearing at the very beginning.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then we see Miles Teller, who plays Andrew Neiman, walking down a long hallway, he's sitting at drums, he adjusts his symbol, he starts playing as the camera pushes in.
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: So I was trying to look up like, well, how good a drummer is Miles Teller?
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: And because for my totally untrained eye, it looks like, the guys playing complicated drums seems like they're drumming to me.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we should say that for there are tons and tons of wide shots where it is absolutely Miles Teller.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: But some of the more intricate work, some of the more hand work that they do have a drum double for them.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: But then I looked in like there is a lot of series jazz musicians talking smack about Miles Keller's technique.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the fast thing about Shazel.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I know he loves the things he is talking about.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: However, there are like, Lala Land.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: He got raked over the coals for having a white person explaining jazz to a black artist who's playing jazz.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's like, it's this thing where I think it's okay to love the things that you love.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: And yes, you're not gonna be able to get it 100% accurate and you'll get shit from the people who spent their entire lives doing it, but that's part of the game.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: But you did spread your appreciation, your love for this stuff too, a wider mass audience, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, no surprise.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, look, watch ER with a doctor and they'll tell you exactly what's bullshit with it.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Watch the law and order with a lawyer or a judge.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they'll tell you how much bullshit is in those shows.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's just how it goes, you know.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I mean, to me, to me, it's like,
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: We people really look to find a negative.
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like they really look to ha, we get this all the time in comments of like, oh, you missed that, it's like, yeah, we did not get everything right because we're trying to do a lot and they don't focus on what's so good in this movie.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that even though in their ways, people talk about us, we go that, this isn't a perfect representation of jazz.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: But this is the biggest movie about jazz that we had gotten in a long time.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, people are talking about this kind of music.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're listening to the kind of music.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: As Neman is sitting there practicing his drums, we see the shadow of JK Simmons hovering outside the door.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, stay.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously, Neman knows exactly who this is and his nervous about it.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's your name?
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: What year are you?
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a first year.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know who I am?
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sir.
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: So right there, I think he does a great job of establishing that this is a serious and scary and intimidating and important guy.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what the things I talk about all the time in shows and movies when I do analysis on our show and kick buddies and other shows, like how much depth are you giving the characters?
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: You can get away with not giving the characters too much depth because you've hired a really great actor.
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: old actors and actresses.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: And right here, right off the bat, JK exudes this energy.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: Whether you've seen him in TV shows or not, there's a confidence, there's a control, there's a you better pay attention to what I'm saying kind of energy that you as the audience perk up.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I think a majority of us as human beings are Andrew Neiman.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's very
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: JK Simmons.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so most of us in a movie theater will perk up when a character comes in like this and is immediately coming after possibly or unsettling the person we seem to be, we seem to be connecting to as a protagonist.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so seeing the way he reacts to it, naming as well, because we haven't had much information on this kid, but the way miles plays it, you know, you're just immediately
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: warm to the kid and you feel like he's in a tough situation.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: It was almost like watching an an a nature video where like an unsuspecting animal is wandered in close to an alligator or close to a lion, you know.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Totally, I think, you know, people who talk about film from the outside,
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: frequently donors know how it works and so there's always this like well what's this character's backstory we have no backstory on fletcher we don't need any backstory on fletcher what the good squeeze like the reason that you have backstory is that you can so that you can feel something for the characters and who they are and what their struggles are so forth right
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: But back story, giving the audience hear us a bunch of information about this person's background, doesn't do the job you really want it to do, which you want us to do is understand the character and be emotionally involved in what's going on.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: By this moment, and Andrew's reaction to Fletcher, tells us everything.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, far more emotionally successfully than saying, well, fletch your graduated from the Berkeley School of Music in 1974.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it doesn't matter.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: What matters is we see how he reacts to this guy.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_09]: So you know, I'm looking for players.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, sir.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Then why did you stop playing?
• 17:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then Andrew starts playing again because that's the thing that makes perfect sense.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_09]: Did I ask you to start playing again?
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry, I missed why you stopped playing and your version of an answer was to turn into a wind up monkey.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: I have to make a bit of confession at this moment.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: So people who have listed this podcast for a long time have heard me many, many times mentioned this guy, Mike Hoover, who I worked for on the two shark documentaries.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: We developed multiple projects about Afghanistan together.
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: We did a whole bunch of other stuff together.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: because gave me some serious goddamn Hoover flashbacks.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: And here's the thing.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I need to put this out right at front.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hoover was never as bad as Fletcher.
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hoover was perfectly capable and frequently was a great guy.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: In addition to being brilliant, he was supportive.
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: He was interested, he was inquisitive.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: All those things were great.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: But.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: There was a lot of fletcher in Hoover when I first started working for him.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: I was informed by Peter Brown, who was the captain of the shark boat that we were working on.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, who'd worked with Hoover for a long time and Peter introduced me to the term being Hovenated and Hovenated was when Hoover came down hard on you.
• 18:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: And you had to learn how to weather those storms.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: And one of the things that Hoover used to do is exactly what Fletcher did here, which is to trap someone on purpose into making a mistake by following what any normal person would do in that circumstance.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: And you say, why did you stop playing?
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: That tells the person start playing again.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: That, and he did it on purpose to trap him
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I see you're a point of view on this for sure.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: I also think, but I also think the story, I also think this is a great opening scene because it establishes the two characters.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: Neiman is a people pleaser with authority figures.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: And Fletcher is enjoying the power of the moment.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: He walks in on this kid.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: He probably can tell immediately because Fletcher is probably seeing a lot of these kids come through Shea for school.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's like, OK, this is the young kid.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just going to stretch out and see what's here, right?
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: And just kind of mess with him.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's almost like a little bit of a practice before I actually do it with my eyes.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, but it establishes for us what this relationship is going to be like for the rest of the movie.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: that the kid is nervous around him, assumes that Fletcher wants something from him without Fletcher saying it, and tries to please Fletcher the whole time through the movie.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so it's a great establishing scene for both of these characters.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're immediately unsettled by Fletcher and we're immediately, we immediately feel somebody for Neiman.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, in part of this too, there are some movies
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: where the trailer, you want to not give too much away, because they're important to us and stuff.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: But there are other movies where the trailer is actually setting you up for what you're into.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: If you saw the trailer and you know what move you're going, you're looking for abuse.
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know this relationship is gonna become abusive.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: So even in this very first scene, you're a little bit tense about it.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'll say again, two points really, one is, I'm not sure that I think that Andrew is a people pleaser.
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he is a fletcher-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-free-
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess you're right in that way.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess that's what I'm saying.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess that's a good amendment to what I'm saying, is that he immediately is in a deficit or it's a massive position of fletcher throughout the most of the movie.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, honestly, it's my feelings about Andrew that have involved the most as I've been watching and studying this film.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: What one other thing, because there'll be Hoover comments throughout, this move was something he pulled all the time.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: If you met, I came to know it and then came to start to try to protect people from it because if someone was meeting Hoover for the first time, he always wanted to test them.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: He always wanted to push them in a place where they had to defend a position against him.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he wanted to test people's metal because Hoover was like, I could be on the Antarctic ice flow with you.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I need to know what you're going to do under those circumstances.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: That was his attitude when meeting new people.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it was excellent who likes to you do a certain handshake when they meet people to try to create an alpha summit in the situation.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Hoover was the alpha, but it wasn't so much about him trying to, he didn't need to establish alpha-ness because he was, it was so much more about, he was curious, what will you do if I push you that hard?
• 22:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: So I thought, show me your rudiment.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: He starts drumming and as soon as he starts drumming, JK Simmons holds up that fist in that stop gesture that we will come to be very, very familiar, double time swing.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_09]: double time.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, the close JK Simmons wearing is wearing are in fact his clothes and they were the same essential outfits that he wore when they did the short and this was all JK Simmons idea and I think it's that black t-shirt and the fact that he is clearly pumped up his biceps a little bit before doing this, it creates this whole image of who this guy is.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yep, powerful.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he starts pushing
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's clapping, he's going faster.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: And now you see, Andrew is really, really working at him.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: And the camera is pushing in on him and we're thinking, what is Fletcher thinking of this and we hear the door slam because he's walked out.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, just to make it a little bit worse, he comes back in and says, I'm too lazy, I forgot my jacket.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: Did he forget the jacket on purpose?
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, 100%.
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think this whole thing is on purpose, possibly from both sides.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yep.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like Neiman knew that Fletcher might walk by while he's performing possibly.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: And totally, right?
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: And Fletcher walked in and it's like, oh, here's Neumet.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me see what I can get out of this kid.
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: And him walking out while the kid is performing, would not even give him feedback is up to Neiman to decide what Fletcher's walkout meets.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's, it's so, hey, I mean, I, I'm confident in saying that every artist in some way shape or form has had the discovery fantasy, I'm going to be at this place and Steven Spielberg will just happen to walk in right then and I will be ready and I will get the big break.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: So of course, of course Andrew has thought about Fletcher-Wad, that's the whole reason he's at this school.
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, you make this guy, you know.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, I think he is, I think he is pulled this walk out on a student move a hundred times.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we hear jazz playing, by the way, the composer is Justin Hurwitz.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is a tough composing job.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: Because he's not just scoring a film, he wrote most of the main songs, including Whiplash, and they had to fit into a very kind of
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: a category that Damon Shazel was looking for of this sort of standard classic jazz kind of thing, but being music that no one had heard before.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he has to incorporate that style and those themes throughout the film as the score.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a really unique scoring job.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think if it didn't succeed, this movie would not succeed.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I agree.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's outside again.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: We have those quick shots of mostly Los Angeles to make it look like New York.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: And there's kind of an old school like I would say like a 60s sort of feel to the editing style, like the sort of quick glimpses of the city and stuff.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: And we see a marquee for a movie theater that says Reefy Reefy, very famous
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Highest movies ever is on criteria and if you guys haven't seen it highly recommend you I have not seen it.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we it always made our list on the top when we did the top 10 show with most like on these high-ster caper movies and so it was a it's a fun one to explore and I think there's something about that You know, I was trying to think of the symbolism of that you know trying to get something that is hard to get and I wonder if that's an element of what they were trying to imply
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he goes to the concession stand where we see Melissa Benoist.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: And of course, Melissa Benoist is the star of Supergirl and she'd been in some of this stuff before, but really was Supergirl on CW That she really made her bones and I wish we'd see more for a man because she's damn good in this movie And another week, right, this movie is 12 years ago, but we don't see Melissa pop up in a lot of theatrical features and it's a shame Because she is a very natural, likable energy and I wish we could see her in more things Overall as a talent
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think she does great in this movie, in particular to contrast what a normal human is like versus the crazy people that are in this movie, you know, the turvant is.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he goes into the movie theater to sit down next to his dad played by Paul Ryzer in a role.
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think for the very few scenes he's in this movie, Paul Ryzer is fantastic.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you have to wonder how Shazel was able to get these people.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, did he have connections, did he know these few?
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I mean, I do know that there are actors like JK Simmons and others who will do shorts, you know what I'm saying?
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because they just want to work, they like to act.
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's great when you get a chance to get them in your film.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I want to wish his else connections where to get riser and get JK initially in for the short.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I mean, I think riser, who rarely gets a chance to do these kinds of roles.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think you're so right, Steve.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's the perfect choice for the dad here, because riser is a different energy.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: He can play,
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: the kind of concern, father, slightly nebish kind of thing, but also a little weak.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think this is a fascinating, quietly fascinating portrayal he does of his dad, especially when we get to that dinner scene, which is really devastating.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, it's a brutal scene.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think he's great.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't, I don't have the answer to how he got these people, except.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think he's, so Jason Wrightman is an executive producer on this month, and I think Damien was buddies with him or knew him or had a connection with him before because he's who recommended JK Simmons to be in the short.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, wow.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: So if you have Jason Wrightman in your corner when you're doing the short, maybe access to guys like Paul Reiser and the other thing, and this is the thing.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Part of it is the script.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is a great short.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: The secretfters want to do good scripts.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you know, but you also need to get the script to the actor.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: So you still got to have those connections.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: I love that he comes in and pours raisinets into the big type of popcorn.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: That is a great detail.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: People love that combo.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sarah Copperthaway turned me on to that combo.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: I was put bunch of crunch in my popcorn one time.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: So this is an ultra sweet thing.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I had no idea about it.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: He saw me play today.
• 29:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he gives a little kind of shaky hand wave.
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is such a typical dad thing to say, but they think they're being supportive, but it is not what your kid wants to hear.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: You got plenty of options still.
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: What does that mean?
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: Just other options.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: Just, you know.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just life.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: You need it to be my age, you get perspective, I don't want perspective.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, and this is the thing, and this is what we will be touching on, I think, throughout the whole kind, at least I will, throughout the whole conversation of on the film is that he, naming is a cut-a-buff, naming is driven, I know what this kid is, I know who this kid is, and I remember being this kid, we'll back then, and you're just, you're just like, the only thing you see is the only thing in front of you and everything else must be
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: is irrelevant to try to achieve the thing you want to achieve.
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I just finished watching the last dance again, the Michael Jordan documentary, which is crack for me, utter crack for me.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's such a good dog.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right?
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I just randomly watched a TikTok a couple of weeks ago with a scene, and I was like, fuck, and I just watched it all over again.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's meant like, too, we're watching it every night, one episode.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Big commitment.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: They say, well, I just love the fun.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: I just love the shit out of that thing.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's because it's for me as I get older,
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: and I explore the people who have achieved things in our life and I'm, you know, we can be pretty judgmental.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: I know I can be sometimes on social media and all my reviews and stuff, but like, there are people who, to achieve greatness, they will absolutely shatter all the eggs in the fucking carton because they have to achieve greatness.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: And we have to reconcile with will, was it okay?
• 30:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: was it okay what they did?
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think there's something really fascinating about Jordan when he has that moment when he breaks down talking about clearly how some of the comments and the negative stuff has affected him, but he was determined.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was driven.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: And Neiman is driven.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can see that.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: And his dad isn't.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: His dad isn't.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that comes up a number of times throughout the film.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's like, how do you deal with that?
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: And for me, as you were saying, you saw Hoover, I see my dad and Paul Ryzer at times.
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because my dad had a lot of skills, but he always kind of gave in to the easier path.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: When he could have chose in the harder path, he could have pushed farther than where he wanted to go.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: But my dad was always very sensitive and vulnerable about this stuff.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, even though he could be mean at times when I was a young kid, he was full of his machismo.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: There was this thing of like, well, you know, I want to, so at times for me, when I, because I haven't achieved the things I wanted to achieve, I had these ideas of greatness that I could do, I sometimes wonder if it was because my father was in his driven as I was, that I could have learned lessons from him.
• 31:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so I see Neiman at times, he almost, he doesn't hate his father, but at this stage in his life, he does not value his father's perspective on the world, because he's too focused on trying to achieve
• 32:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think for me, by the time I had my final conversation with my dad, I had also come to that place where I understood like, there are so many things that happen in life that keep you from pursuing certain things.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's not necessarily your fault.
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: And those are the things you have to kind of have.
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it comes with age and the kids young in this movie right now.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, all these these are success.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: He wants to achieve success.
• 32:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and that's, you know, what dad means by perspective, you know, like, well, and this is this, so the big thing that I, to me, okay, spoiler alert, I think Fletcher is an asshole, like he makes me angry throughout the entire movie and we are going to get to questions about whether or not this was good or necessary or what is required to be for greatness and we'll have those conversations, but that's big thing that I've been thinking about in Washington studying now is.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: What the fuck is the deal with Andrew Neiman?
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, like he is, is that we actually, because like the perception of the film is this nice talented kid shows up and gets bullied into and driven crazy by this abusive guy.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like, no, he has an edge to him right from the beginning.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: And this thing that dad is trying to tell him, which I firmly believe is success is actually not necessarily going to give you what you think you want.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: And there are better, there are more important things to life than value than just being Charlie Parker.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know,
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, like, and it's, you know, we'll get to it obviously, but when dad says Charlie Parker dead at 34 from a heroin addiction, that's what he's trying to keep his kid from being, you know, right.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like so, but, but obviously, Andrew can't see that at this point, and then I do love this moment where he's picking around the raise and that and he says, I don't want the raise.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: I just eat around them.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: What I, what I love about that little moment is that what it means is that dad had his thing, like, the fun thing I do is I stick my raise and that's in my popcorn and he shared it with his little kid, probably when it was four years old or five years old and it was like this is this bonding thing they do together and the kid probably for five or 10 years has not liked it and hasn't told dad and dad has thought it was the thing that they were sharing
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: So a slight bit of people, please.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, because you didn't tell him.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yep.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Good point.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Totally.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: How to proceed with that.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, giving you a scenario, right?
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's possible.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: I see it as symbolic in that.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: No, he is so.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: focused on what he wants, that nothing else matters, right?
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I won't lie, right?
• 34:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: So for him, the popcorn is singular to combine it with the raisinettes is to dilute the thing that he's trying to get.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so the little symbolic in that way as well, like he doesn't want the sweet and salty.
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: He just wants the salt.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so I think that's a little bit of a moment.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then his dad says, I don't understand you.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's how he gets hilarious.
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: What it's like to be the parent of a child that is so driven and determined to achieve the things he or she wants to achieve, or they want to.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: I wonder that too.
• 35:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: That thing's going to listen to these episodes.
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know?
• 35:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: I know, I know.
• 35:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: He'll tell you himself.
• 35:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: He is not driven.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's not.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's never said to me like, Dad, I need to go work harder on this.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: Those were tough.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: This never happened.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, he sees back at school and the thing that really establishes he goes through the halls and goes in the rehearsal space is how isolated he is.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and how much of an observer he is, which I certainly feel.
• 35:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think in this great point you bring up earlier, Steve, that you looked at Andrew name in a different light.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, when you watch this movie, now I felt this, I think, I don't know if I quite felt the same way you, but I saw him.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is a guy who's very clear.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: and he does not want to waste time with maintaining relationships or good friends and he says that at the dinner.
• 36:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that dinner is such a full-compoint of the movie.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh yeah, and it is very much like he is so determined on all this.
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: And he's still a young kid.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: So to put adult expectations on a character of this age is a mistake, he is clearly determined, but he doesn't have the emotional vocabulary or mentality to understand the mistakes he's making or the things that he
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: in order to try to achieve the things that he wants to achieve.
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that for him, playing drums makes sense.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes, I put effort into doing this thing.
• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: I will improve on this thing.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: It has a clear value system and he knows what to do.
• 36:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think with humans, the relationships, I mean, the line, again, it's telling on the date.
• 36:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're kind of previewing a whole bunch of stuff that's going to happen later.
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: But he has the comment of my dad says I have problems making eye contact with you.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, whether or not we're saying that means that he could be on the spectrum or whatever it is.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: But that human connection piece, he's not that good at.
• 37:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't think he absolutely is on the spectrum, even though it's not discussed in the film.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then we meet some of the competition, another drummer, and this is Austin Stowell, who plays Ryan Connelly, who has been in some films, you know, Dolphin Dolphin Tail 2, we did both of those movies.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: It was also in Bridge of Spies, recently, it catched 22 that series back in 2019, and in the prequel series, NCIS origin.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: So you can see him now as,
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: Special Agent Lee Roy, Jethro Gibbs on that in that show if you guys watch that kind of stuff, but it's also done a lot of work on stage as well.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: So this is a damn good actor who's got some good pedigree to him as well.
• 37:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: and they have a little bit of small talk and then the teacher comes in says good morning, nobody responds, he repeats it, they say good morning reluctantly and this is just clear contrast between what we're going to see with how people respond to Fletcher as opposed to this teacher.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: they play and Drew is observing because he's not on the drums and as they start to play, we can just see the shadow of a of a flutter in the hallway, everyone aware of it.
• 38:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is the thing, he's he's treated like essentially like a monster, like this is a monster movie, you know.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a great point.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Andrew's walking down the hall goes to where the rehearsal room is, peaks in through the door, sees a fletcher conducting and then fletcher spots him watching.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're back at the rehearsal space and he is practicing some real fast drums and I think one of the things this movie does so well is that by the time you're halfway through this film, you're like, oh,
• 38:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: drumming is an endurance sport.
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is athletic.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not just musical.
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's that you got to be in shape.
• 39:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: You were going to sweat up a storm and we're seeing that now.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're seeing the window and do a obsession.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, right?
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: This nemen might be, oh, sorry, a fletcher might be watching.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I've got to get it going.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love the shots of the pick photos on the wall.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of like Rocky.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: Have that photo of himself on the mirror.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, this is one of the things people pointed out is that in a lot of ways, this feels like a sports movie.
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, you know, we've got these competitions.
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: We have to make the competitions.
• 39:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: You have to make the team like all those kind of sports movie elements.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: And as you mentioned, he's got the posters on the wall.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's got the buddy rich poster.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: He puts a buddy rich CD, buddy rich one of the great drummers of all time.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, I believe he taught Mel Brooks drum lessons.
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: of course he did.
• 39:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Why does because Mel was a drummer up in the Catskills before he this hit Caesar era.
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I love the mix on him when he's listening on the little boombox to buddy Rich in the corner because it's real distant.
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you know, like these are things and the sound design in this movie is absolutely excellent.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: By the way, this brings us to a question from one of our patrons that I really don't have a good answer to, but maybe you will have a better one.
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll just from Michael McKenzie, who asks, who is your favorite drummer of all time?
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: His is Neil Pert from Rush.
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Ooh, that's a good choice.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, a lot of people love Ringo Star.
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, let's be going to them with Ringo Starr, Ringo Starr, great drummer, great drummer, who's the drummer for Benny Goodman, because Sing Sing Sing Sing Sing Sing is one of my favorite.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Gencreep.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, Gencreep was probably my favorite drummer because that song is effing amazing because of his drums.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's a nine minute song if you listen to the uncut version.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I've listened to that song in my car driving a million times and done the drums a million times while I'm in the car.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: But yes, I agree with, right?
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that Tom Sawyer fucking beat is amazing.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, he's a terrible person.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, I would agree with that.
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and Gene Cooper, by the way, is the other great drummer as people, there are people who are full in the buddy-rich camp and other people in the Gene Cooper camp.
• 41:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: I have no opinion on drummers other than, I appreciate the fact that in the world today, they're does seem to be, because when we're kids, people made fun of Ringo Star.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, John Bottom was great for Led Zeppelin, Stuart Copeland for the police.
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: So a lot of great drummers that have come through.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Phil Collins, Dave Groll, we're back to rehearsal now, Andrews at the drums and then they switch drums.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're kind of establishing this thing that you have a lead drummer and then you have the alternate drummer and we're going to go back and forth.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: What if he regretties?
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Meaning that he's playing pretty well.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 42:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: And right at that moment, the door slams.
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: And Terence Fletcher just storms in.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone stops looking expectantly.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: He goes right up to the music stand and says, May I?
• 42:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: Not even a question Steve, it was more like,
• 42:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, just the way enters the fucking classroom slamming the door and bursting into some other teachers classroom is so unbelievably disrespectful Then he looks at the score and his response is What a dick.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is like this is Amadeus with a dick like whether who was a guy right?
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: It walks in.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll tell you any cute.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I like something like that, you know
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, but the thing is it's like what's so funny about Terrence Fletcher is yes, he is a known quantity.
• 42:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: People know who he is.
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: He is a big fish.
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's also the teacher, you know, he's a teacher at a university.
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not saying that teachers at university are not important.
• 43:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're some of the most important people in the world.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: But he acts as if he himself is Charlie Parker,
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: And the way he handles himself, he is the king feshish who said in this in this pond.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it is a as he says later in the in the date with the girl, it is like the best music school in the country.
• 43:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: So there is a sense of like entitlement that he feels because he's the best at the best music school in the country.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: And clearly the teacher
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, steps away himself and I think the misive move because he knows when Fletcher comes in, you give Fletcher what he wants.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And now he's going to go through and kind of which we're going to see a lot of sort of test out each of the individual players.
• 43:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he goes to the trumpets.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's a little bit of a mistake.
• 43:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: Goes through some more people, some fail, some do okay.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is the thing.
• 43:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: What the thing that Fletcher likes to test.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: is how do you do in this split second under tremendous pressure?
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's not exactly the same thing as playing music well.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?
• 44:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, you're testing the character.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: As I said, watch in the last dance documentary.
• 44:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hearing about the things that Jordan pulled in practices with players to test them, to see if they can handle the bright lights, the things you did to Scotties, Pippin, Scottie, Burrell, other players.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it was because he knew they were going to be in a situation.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: where shit was tight, it's a game seven, win or lose, final possession, are you going to be able to do what you need to do under pressure?
• 44:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: The talent, I can get you to do better as on the court.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: I need you to be mentally strong, with a called mental giants.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what essentially he's testing here.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, and as you said, people have said, this is a very much could be a sports movie.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is another way of like testing that with the players.
• 44:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I mean,
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Norman Dale and Hoosiers kind of does that a little bit when he walks in and sizes up what he's got in terms of the squad.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: So, and well, this is why I said this is what Hoover did to people every time he met them was that he would put them in a test under a stressful situation because he wanted to see how they respond.
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so he's going through all these musicians and gets up to the, I think, the lead trumpet and says, well, you're in the first chair.
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's see if it's just because you're cute.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: She plays like three notes and he stops it.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's what.
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, they're layers to horrible this.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, sure.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so one first it just like just storming and and throwing everyone into this test is pretty brutal.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: Then he goes to just the assumption that the woman who is the lead chair could have gotten it just because she's cute is totally insulting.
• 45:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he seems to go, yes, you did just get this because you're cute.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, again, this is practice to him.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is just, you know, tearing people apart and whatever, because he's allowed to.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, some people use power to hurt and some people use power to elevate, to elevate.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's their choice.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: But is he doing all of this, Stos, those Steve, to get to nemen?
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Is this all the rules to get to nemen?
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Or is he really kind of testing out all these players in case there's anyone else besides nemen that he'd want to bring into the band?
• 46:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think this is a, I think it's a key question in the movie.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know how answerable it is because I thought about it a lot too, which is because the kind of possibilities are the very first time he heard Neiman in that rehearsal space.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: He went, oh, this is something I want to build.
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's potential here.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: But the other possibility is he did exactly the same thing to Connelly and he's doing exactly the same thing to everyone because whoever rises to the top is his guy, he doesn't care what day, this is, and this is one of the key things is like flexors philosophy is essentially like Nietzsche that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: So this is my answer to Nietzsche's that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
• 47:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is a quote from Hemingway from a farewell to arms, which is the world breaks everyone.
• 47:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: And afterward, many are strong at the broken places, but those that will not break it kills.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a brutal quote.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Because the thing is, it's like the idea
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: that you go through trauma and the only possibility after going through trauma is that you get stronger is not true.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: PTSD, you know, people in therapy for their lives, talking about things their parents said to them or things, the things that Fletcher is doing to these people is trauma and yeah, he might get a great musician out of it but think of all the people he leaves in his wake.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, because his trauma is he's diluted himself that what he's doing is improving these people to be the best they can be.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: But the end result is only about elevating flexure.
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not necessarily, right, elevating these people, right, because
• 48:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: this is a lot of coaches who are this way.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: What can you help me achieve as a coach?
• 48:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I will help you to be a better player for me, but then after you're gone, I'm moving on to my other to the next round of players.
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think it's the same thing here.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: with Fletcher because later we're going to close that scene where he gets that Trump home guy to leave.
• 48:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: How did he ever make it into Fletcher's band?
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the question as well.
• 48:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's just a fascinating kind of psychological exploration of this guy when you're watching the scenes in the movie.
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and this is partially my philosophy as a teacher.
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: Is your job as a teacher when I was teaching film school, my job was not to find the next or some wells or Stanley Kubrick.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: My job was to give the best possible education I could to every student in the classroom.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're not a fucking talent scout.
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're a teacher, you know, like that.
• 49:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: So his willing to damage anyone he wants to damage and when they can't handle it, which we'll get to that scene is,
• 49:18
  [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, for better or worse.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so now we've gone through the horn section.
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's time to get to the drums.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: We see Connelly play.
• 49:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: He cuts him off pretty quickly.
• 49:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Then he Andrew gets on and he also has him play and stops him immediately.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Drums with me.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: And Connelly gets up smiling because he was the one who was on the drums.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't know, other drums.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, probably, but he couldn't care less, like, exactly.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: This was just like, you know, a flip at moment for him.
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and this is one of the other problems with Fletcher is in addition to his tactics, he gets off on this.
• 50:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, oh, 100%.
• 50:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: 100% he is a sadist who enjoys pushing around that teacher that he walked in the classroom, insulting all the students.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: He likes this.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll get a twist in it.
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, name it also is happy to be chosen at this point.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, a hundred percent goes up to Fletcher, who says, Boom, be 16 tomorrow morning, six a.m. Don't be late.
• 50:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: First of all, Connelly is obviously not pleased about this.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, when you see Neiman sit back down in the alternate chair and try not to smile.
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 50:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is exactly what you want.
• 50:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think Steve is smile is really interesting.
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they linger.
• 50:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: She's out lingers on teller as he does this.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because it's not one smile.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: He goes through, as you said, a gradual thing.
• 50:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: There is almost an arrogance to the smile of Neiman.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: And you were saying this earlier, right?
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: This reevaluation of this character.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: There is almost a sense of arrogance to that, like, yeah, damn right over.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: He sees what I see, too, that I have the potential to do this.
• 51:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's almost a bit of that, which I think is important to understand, as you said, it's not this poor little lamb being led to this slaughter, he's got a little bit of edge to him, too, that he's willing to put himself in this kind of a situation.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's more than a little ledge.
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think, you know, it's misleading
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: because you have those shots of him being the observer and in particular, the one that really stands out to me, is he looks over and sees like a couple that is being like a little bit romantic?
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 51:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that, I think that shot really,
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: demonstrates the the distance from human content.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we feel, oh, I feel bad for this kid.
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's lonely.
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like the normal things that I would feel and that that's what we're kind of putting on him.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I actually don't think, I mean, yes, I do think he's lonely.
• 51:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: I do think he wants romantic attention.
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's totally true.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I also think he thinks he's superior to every single person in this, you know, be level has heem, and because you're right, it's not just that there's an arrogance, there's an arrogance that has some nastiness with some help, with them help from Fletcher is going to come to the four, you know, right.
• 52:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we're back at the movie theater.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: This was all done.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is all one shot.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: It took him a few takes to kind of get in the rhythm, but then they did.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: He goes up to order his food and then says I see in here a lot and I think that you're really pretty.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And would you want to go out with me?
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ever.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Please go away.
• 52:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
• 52:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: And now he's just shagrined and embarrassed.
• 52:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, like the worst possible reaction.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just messing with you.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just messing with you.
• 52:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's actually pretty mean.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm sorry.
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't mean to.
• 52:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
• 52:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're meant to be.
• 52:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: We feel.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: The messing with him is a bold move.
• 52:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 52:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: I agree.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: I agree.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's also the kind of thing that, you know, we're talking about backstory versus, you know, how you're revealing things about your character.
• 53:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that messing with him for a character who's gonna have almost no screen time at all.
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: We go, oh, she's interesting, because she did that, you know?
• 53:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Again, great casting.
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: Gotta be smart on the casting.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: But do you think he,
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: has the guts to finally ask her out because neeminess chosen him like it's almost to send this up when you're young and I've been there when you're young you like someone gives you some sort of blessing you kind of almost feel like you've taken on a little bit more and you can go into a situation and ask someone out maybe or or get something you want from someone and so I wonder if there's an element of this that he's doing it right after an evenness kind of chosen I mean
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: To answer your question, let me read a quote from my notes.
• 53:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right after the scene, my note was, did getting into the Fletcher group give him the confidence to ask her out?
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: My answer is 100% yes.
• 54:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's no way he does this if he didn't put it into the studio group.
• 54:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, right.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I get off that seven on Monday.
• 54:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: OK. You want to be more OK, yeah.
• 54:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that will.
• 54:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: and he walks away, smiling.
• 54:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think the smiles of getting in the group and the smile totally can happen.
• 54:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, he looks at his clock, he's in bed in his room, and he's running late because he's got to be there at 6 a.m.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: He runs, he falls, he's scrambling.
• 54:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: He gets to the studio room, and it is totally empty.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: He looks at the schedule on the wall, rehearsal doesn't start till nine.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to the group.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: This happened in basic training all the time.
• 54:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yep.
• 54:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Get up, get out there.
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're doing a whole thing.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then you stand a parade rest for two and a half hours, thinking you were doing other things.
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's, oh.
• 54:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: What would you say is the purpose of doing that?
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just to get you prepared for anything that happens and to shake you from what you think you deserve or don't deserve because there's got nothing to do with war.
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's got nothing to do with a battle.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's about being able to react to moments as they happen and troubleshoot them and still stay focused.
• 55:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and listen, I used to anger carried me a lot during those days.
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so when those things would happen to me, I was like, just always like sitting there steaming, but I would stay in the position.
• 55:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: I would stay in the moment, um, but I, you know, later I understood why they didn't but at the time, you do get caught in this feeling of like, why are we standing over three hours?
• 55:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Why wouldn't this all about?
• 55:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: And you just don't understand until later when the explanations come through.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then you get it, you know?
• 55:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, let me ask you this.
• 55:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: If you did say drill sergeant, we'd stand here for hours, man, why are you making this do this?
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: If you would decide something like that, what would have been the result?
• 56:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Down on the gravel with your hand being, uh, uh, with divots being put in your hand from the gravel, from doing all the push-ups that you're going to be doing, uh, as a result of talking back to the drill sergeant
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: a couple of the younger guys did that and absolutely were down doing pushups for the two hours we were there.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, and so yeah, it's, you know, how soft the basic can be sometimes it's still going to push you physically.
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there are moments where you have to come to terms with that stuff.
• 56:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: So you learn to keep your mouth shut, you learn to listen.
• 56:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you don't learn to listen, you're going to pay the price.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's how it works.
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's exactly the point I was going to, which is that the whole point is because our normal thing is someone asks us to do a thing, we go, well, why should I do that?
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: What is the point of this?
• 56:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: And what basic is taking out of you is the desire to ask that question.
• 56:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: You can't ask that question.
• 56:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yours is not to reason why yours is just to do or die.
• 57:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: And the obeying of the sergeant or the officer who ever, their goal is that it becomes
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: that they say, you know, carry this thing on top of your head and you go, yes, sir.
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's it.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't, you don't question it.
• 57:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what Fletcher's trying to do.
• 57:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it's like whatever I ask.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't matter how ridiculous I tell you to do something.
• 57:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're going to go do it exactly as I say, because I know best.
• 57:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I need good soldiers.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's very much a drill source.
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: So finally, at 9 o'clock people start or towards 9 people start coming in.
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: And again, it's that same quick staccato, very jazz musician cutting style of the quick shots of the warming up the instruments, the putting out the music, all of those things.
• 57:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: And now we have one of the other drummers that we're going to deal with, this is Nate Lang, who plays Carl Tanner, he was also in the short, I don't think he's done a lot of other things other than this.
• 57:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I haven't seen it too much.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: You didn't you alternate?
• 57:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I'm not in your name, it's been a set to be flat, and it turned my pages turned on personally.
• 58:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, there's our substattis stuff there.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 58:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, there's a window into what we're going to see throughout the movie is that Fletcher's toxicity is passed on to the people below.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they take on his toxicity in order to exist in the band.
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then in order to achieve some level of status or power, because they are so powerless when they are dealing with Fletcher.
• 58:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: Nine o'clock on the second the door slams.
• 58:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: And everyone essentially goes to attention is Fletcher.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's all such drama, it's all, see such a fucking drama queen, I had a professor at USC and I'm not going to mention his name because he's actually on TV and you've seen him sometimes.
• 58:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, this is how he would enter the classroom.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, he would come in.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: He would cut like the first day he came in from the back.
• 58:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: He came in 20 minutes late from the back, not the main entrance, came in with his hands up in the air for a standing innovation.
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: We've got a squeaker today, people.
• 59:06
  [SPEAKER_09]: Neiman, 19 years old, is an EQ.
• 59:10
  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, gang, whiplash.
• 59:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: Even the way they turn their pages shows how they respect and fear of flutter.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: He holds up his hand, and everyone is in the room is hanging on that hand movement as it's literally a life-and-death situation, which for them it feels like it, you know?
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: 100%.
• 59:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: They play.
• 59:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: They sound pretty good from my untrained ear and Andrew is slow turning the page and now we get our notes from our conductor.
• 59:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: He says, Parker, that is not your boyfriend's dick, do not come early.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: And this, and I think some of most of this is in the script, some of this is J.K. Simmons improvising.
• 59:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: He had, he had a lot of fun.
• 59:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: And if you listen to the commentary track as him and David Shazel, and Miles is not there.
• 59:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: And J.K. talks, smack about Miles, teller, jokes about him.
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: And you just get to say, in a totally funny way, and I'm sure, and you just go, like, oh, I know what this guy was like on the side.
• 1:00:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know?
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, this one really upsets me.
• 1:00:14
  [SPEAKER_09]: We have an out of tune player here.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_09]: Before I continue, would that player care to identify himself?
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_09]: No?
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_09]: OK, maybe a bug flew in my ear.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe get three notes in and he goes, no?
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_09]: My ears are fine.
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_09]: We definitely have an out of tune player.
• 1:00:37
  [SPEAKER_09]: Whoever it is, this is your last chance.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he takes an extremely short pause.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_09]: And there it went.
• 1:00:46
  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, either you are deliberately playing out of tune and sabotaging my band, or you don't know you're out of tune, which I'm afraid is even worse.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: the reaction shots tell the story here because you see no one will look at him everyone's scared it's super intense in the room everyone's looking down just afraid they're gonna get chosen just killed it's almost that energy right that sounds feels yeah and he calls out you know one group to play they say notes not them he says bones in the trombones play he's here and he walks over
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: heavy kid with the trombone, same kid that acted the same part in the short.
• 1:01:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: So he got to have JK Simmons humiliate him twice, you know?
• 1:01:39
  [SPEAKER_09]: Tell me it's not you, Elmer Fudd.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Place two notes and stops him.
• 1:01:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you think you're out of tune?
• 1:01:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he hesitates to answer.
• 1:01:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is like the fallacy of everything that Fletcher is doing.
• 1:01:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it is true.
• 1:01:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: He, let me ask you this question before I say this.
• 1:01:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
• 1:01:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Did this kid know that he was in tune?
• 1:02:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think judging from the scene as it plays out, I don't think the kid has the confidence to know whether he's in tune or not in tune.
• 1:02:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: And he is so rattled by Fletcher that he cannot answer one way or the other.
• 1:02:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I think, watching the.
• 1:02:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know what, you know, a strange analogy I'll make is false confessions, there's all this research that people under pressure do confess to terrible crimes that might, you know, decades in prison, yeah, because they're stressed out and they even will remember things or change their memory because and I learned this when I was teaching is that for many, many students.
• 1:02:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: What you learn in school is that my job is to please the teacher.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:02:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: And when I was teaching, I was like, no, I want you to create your art.
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not actually frequently not asking the question because I have an answer in my head and I'm trying to you to get to my answer.
• 1:03:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: But that's mostly what students' job is is that teacher wants a thing and my job is to give them what they want.
• 1:03:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think this kid is true.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think he may be probably thinks that he was on key.
• 1:03:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: But what he's desperately trying to do is give this scary guy what he wants and he doesn't know what the guy wants, right now.
• 1:03:22
  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, there's no fucking Mars bar down there.
• 1:03:25
  [SPEAKER_08]: What are you looking at?
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_08]: Look up here, look at me.
• 1:03:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Now we've used that he is perfectly comfortable using whatever personal elements about you to insult you and to intimidate you.
• 1:03:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: In this case, it's this guy's way.
• 1:03:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you think you're out of tune?
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 1:03:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: Then why the fuck didn't you say so?
• 1:03:47
  [SPEAKER_09]: Now he's crying.
• 1:03:49
  [SPEAKER_09]: I've carried your fat ass for too long, Matt.
• 1:03:50
  [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm not going to have you cost us a competition because your mind's in a fucking happy meal instead of on pitch.
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_09]: Jackson, congratulations, your fourth chair.
• 1:03:58
  [SPEAKER_09]: Matt's why are you still sitting there?
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_09]: Get the fuck out!
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he exits, sobbing.
• 1:04:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is so...
• 1:04:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is very similar to a full metal jacket going to just say the same thing, totally right.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: The same page.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to talk in a pile.
• 1:04:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're disgusting fat body.
• 1:04:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: Listen, you're going to get made fun of you and I both know as guys who are a little larger, we make, that's the easy thing to be made fun of.
• 1:04:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, just the other day, you're going to be a little bit more fun.
• 1:04:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: A friend of mine told me about a YouTube video from a person who took a shot of me when I was heavier and they put it next to another person who is just as heavy as a way of insulting me.
• 1:04:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is on YouTube.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: I deal with this all the time on YouTube, like people make fun of my weight all the time from when I was at 265 pounds, you know.
• 1:04:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they use it as a way of undercutting me and insulting me, but I'm used to it.
• 1:04:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: eight or nine fucking years old people making fun of my way.
• 1:04:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's low hanging fruit.
• 1:04:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't affect me.
• 1:04:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: But like it happens, right?
• 1:05:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so what it always reminds me of is that there are still people who will use that to attack you.
• 1:05:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: you have got to be stronger, because they will do it.
• 1:05:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's the easiest thing to come at you.
• 1:05:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Same thing with people who are gay or women, you know, or black people, you know, obviously, there's just something that people will always grab as low-hanging fruit.
• 1:05:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so it's up to you to decide how you wanna roll with that stuff.
• 1:05:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: Including Matt's was not strong enough to stay in this band.
• 1:05:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't even know how he made the band to be honest with you.
• 1:05:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: He might be a great musician, maybe that's out and then he dealt with him, but maybe now that he's like, hasn't gotten stronger, hasn't gotten tougher, it's almost an embarrassment to fletcher that he couldn't get this kid to be stronger.
• 1:05:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so he needs him out of his sight.
• 1:05:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: There is that element of that, too.
• 1:05:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: That flexor, that, that, that, that, that, that's a bit of a failure to flexor, and so he needs him out of his sight and use this as a reason to get him out.
• 1:05:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: He may have walked in, now we don't know this because people like this are maniacs, Steve.
• 1:06:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: He may have walked in that day, knowing he was going to attack.
• 1:06:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Mets just to get him out of the band.
• 1:06:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so it's that kind of madness or sickness that is an element to this.
• 1:06:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: So Mets running out, I feel bad for the kid.
• 1:06:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've certainly been there when I was younger and people made fun of my way to girls, made fun of my way when I, you know, me daring to ask them out being ridiculed for how fat I was.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I've been there.
• 1:06:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: It sucks.
• 1:06:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: You do cry.
• 1:06:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: It hurts, right?
• 1:06:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: But you gotta get stronger.
• 1:06:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Mike is not going to cuddle you, you know?
• 1:06:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: many thoughts.
• 1:06:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: The first is, I feel like something is interesting is happening, which has happened before on the podcast, which is that
• 1:06:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not that you and I disagree, but we're kind of focused in different perspectives that we're only like, I'm thinking about the writing and you're thinking about the acting or which character you associate with.
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: And the thing that you're talking about, which I completely agree with is that this shit is gonna come at you in life.
• 1:06:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: And you're gonna have to need to deal with it.
• 1:06:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: And this kid, this heavier kid that gets kicked out of the band, he didn't not deal with it.
• 1:06:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's totally true.
• 1:07:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: I look at this movie so much more because of having been a teacher of just all the damage that this guy is causing and all the horribleness and and just the the illusion because and you know what it is is people that are
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: obsessed with status and people that believe that they can bully other people into getting status and the only thing that is important is status, right?
• 1:07:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Therefore, judge people on how they are dealing with bullying and this situation.
• 1:07:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so for flutter, the ability to stand up to flutter is critical to being a great musician.
• 1:07:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, which it's not like, right, there are great musicians who are super sensitive and super insecure who put some of the greatest musicians in the history of the world, you know, like, but that's the that's the the rubric he's using to judge people, you know, well, it's it's in any any arena, right, like there are adults who go into colleges.
• 1:08:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: in order to feel imperious.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they stay at those colleges because they know that it is the kids' jobs to kiss their asses and to elevate them and to, and they get to rule them with an iron fist.
• 1:08:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: You see it in sports?
• 1:08:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: You see it here in this movie?
• 1:08:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you see it in the political sphere.
• 1:08:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: You see it everywhere.
• 1:08:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Adults go into colleges thinking they can bully college kids because they need to feel superior because they can't handle actually going toe to toe with regular adults.
• 1:08:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they actually are found what so they go here.
• 1:08:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, a lot of college coaches can't jump to the pros because they cannot handle that the the men in the pros are like, fuck you when they try that.
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: a college tactic on them to try to manipulate them, but you know, flamed out like there's greatness that flames out all the time going next level because they need that servitude in essence in order to feel superior.
• 1:09:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: And achieve the things they achieve.
• 1:09:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: By the way, Justin, you're thinking about him planning on firing this kid out a professor at Cal, theater professor, and I'm sure I said before that I almost was never cast in the play at first.
• 1:09:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: The way I got cast in plays was somebody dropped out and then they went, well, I guess Steve could do it.
• 1:09:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's how I ended up in the play.
• 1:09:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: sort of like the, you know, the main bee stringer that they can call up to the bigs.
• 1:09:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I got this happened with a play in this professor said to me because he liked me.
• 1:09:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's like, oh, I always fire at least one actor in every production because it gets everybody on the, you know, on the same team.
• 1:09:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm like,
• 1:09:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: you're a dick no such a dick move it is to me it conveys insecurity i can't hit everybody on board unless i do something this extreme well then we suck yeah i can suck at what you do yeah and then you know the kicker on this moment that we spent a long time of after he kicks this guy out he goes for the record minutes wasn't out of tune you were Erickson but he didn't know and that's bad enough
• 1:10:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: So to be clear, he kept the musician that played out of tune because he was who remained silent and said nothing.
• 1:10:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 1:10:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: And kicked out the musician who was playing on tune because he didn't defend his position.
• 1:10:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:10:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: He almost says respect for the kid who didn't say anything was willing to take the brow beating or the kid who couldn't handle the brow beating.
• 1:10:29
  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, take time.
• 1:10:31
  [SPEAKER_09]: when we get back to squeakers on.
• 1:10:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: By the way, this is what happens when you shoot in a movie.
• 1:10:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: They were a lot of time in this room.
• 1:10:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think this is a room in the orfium theater or the pal cedar downtown in LA.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: They shot a lot down in those theater, in the theater district in LA.
• 1:10:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Beautiful old movie theaters in downtown LA, by the way.
• 1:10:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and because they spent so much time together and playing together, this wasn't a band, but they started to feel like a band, as they kept working on this stuff together.
• 1:10:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Andrew's outside, he's working on the score, flexures there.
• 1:11:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Bear with some musicians?
• 1:11:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
• 1:11:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna do... Maya, dad's a writer?
• 1:11:07
  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, what's he really?
• 1:11:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess he's more of a teacher, really?
• 1:11:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, college.
• 1:11:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Pennington High School?
• 1:11:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: So, right there, there's some status, stuff going on, a judgment stuff.
• 1:11:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Both from Fletcher, judging his dad, but also Andrew judging his dad.
• 1:11:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 1:11:29
  [UNKNOWN]: Yes.
• 1:11:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, like it feels like Fletcher is doing this to acquire information in order to manipulate the kit, where are the buttons, where are the holes that I can use, you know, it's very devious and setting them up, giving the illusion that I care about you for a little while, so you'll have to, you'll feel confident so that when when I do take you down, which I'm already planning on doing, it'll really hurt.
• 1:11:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then you have to tell him.
• 1:11:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: McEvelli.
• 1:11:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Totally.
• 1:11:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: And to your point of gathering weaponry, we're about your mother and what did she do?
• 1:12:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, she left when I was a baby.
• 1:12:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Boys, that a big weapon to put in Fletcher's Quiver.
• 1:12:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.
• 1:12:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he leans in, hand on the wall, almost seductively.
• 1:12:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, and says something, and I am sure he told this story over and over and over again to various students.
• 1:12:21
  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, he just got to listen to the great stuff.
• 1:12:24
  [SPEAKER_09]: Buddy Rich, Joe Jones.
• 1:12:27
  [SPEAKER_09]: Charlie Parker became bird because Jones threw a symbol at his head.
• 1:12:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: So this is a true story.
• 1:12:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: By the way, Joe Jones did throw a symbol.
• 1:12:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: He wasn't actually at his head.
• 1:12:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: It was at his feet.
• 1:12:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: And from what the band members described is it wasn't him losing it and trying to hurt him or screaming at him.
• 1:12:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: It was him making fun of Charlie Parker.
• 1:12:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: It was much more of a joke and people laughed than it was a scary moment from a tyrant.
• 1:13:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: from what I understand about the incident.
• 1:13:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's just the key is to just relax.
• 1:13:06
  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't worry about the numbers.
• 1:13:08
  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't worry about what the other guys are thinking.
• 1:13:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's so warm.
• 1:13:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's so faking being friendly in this moment.
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: With just an edge of us being scared as the audience.
• 1:13:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?
• 1:13:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're here for a reason.
• 1:13:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: You believe that, right?
• 1:13:25
  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
• 1:13:27
  [SPEAKER_08]: Say it.
• 1:13:29
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm here for a reason.
• 1:13:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, man, you're fun.
• 1:13:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, feel about this in this moment.
• 1:13:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Again, this is a predator just to absolute, like, again, I get obsessed with these TikTok videos.
• 1:13:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: We've talked about this Steve, this nature TikTok videos.
• 1:13:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a couple that I follow who have mountain lions.
• 1:13:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: They raise mountain lions.
• 1:13:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: and they feed them, they have them in cages and whatever, like they talk about how a mountain lion will use its natural cuteness as a feline to lure people close to them and then lash out in attack.
• 1:14:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's essentially what you're seeing.
• 1:14:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is a primalistic thing that he uses this semblance of nicety as a way of getting closer to him so that he can use the information and use the fact that the kid thinks he's a nice guy to really hammer home his control of the kid in manipulation of the kid.
• 1:14:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, it's a sick thing that he's doing.
• 1:14:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's totally work because Andrew comes in smiling, filled with confidence,
• 1:14:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we're about to start.
• 1:14:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: He says, all right, gang, whip-lash, which, of course, is the title of the movie and a piece of music we're going to hear a lot in the course of this.
• 1:14:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Five, six, and.
• 1:14:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: The first drummer watches.
• 1:14:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think there's a moment from Tanner, the other drummer who goes like, oh, this guy's pretty good.
• 1:14:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:14:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let your goes over to him.
• 1:14:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's hear some fiddles.
• 1:14:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he's smiling.
• 1:14:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's just so danger.
• 1:14:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's like, because you know, that just what you said, this is a predator.
• 1:15:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's coming, you know?
• 1:15:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:15:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I love, you know, he's got his arms out stretch of like that we found drumming Jesus at this moment, his wet flutcher is putting out.
• 1:15:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's so stressful because we know what movie we're watching.
• 1:15:18
  [SPEAKER_09]: A little trouble there, let's put it up at 17, 5, 6, and.
• 1:15:28
  [SPEAKER_09]: Not quite my temple.
• 1:15:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: tempo is just critical to this movie in particular in the way it's edited, and what he's going to do because when Fletcher is asking you like do this again, I'll do it again.
• 1:15:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: He doesn't give the drummer or the musician's time to reset.
• 1:15:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's not, it's always Takato.
• 1:15:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's always, as he would say, he's rushing.
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's not dragging.
• 1:15:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's always pushing the beat forward to make it uncomfortable.
• 1:15:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't just mean that JK Simmons is doing that in his performance of Fletcher.
• 1:16:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, David Shazel is doing that in how this is edited.
• 1:16:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:16:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's like it's really coming at you.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_09]: Dominion 18.
• 1:16:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: are 17 the and of four plus he's he's throwing out all these terms which obviously if you're a musician you understand the terms I don't but the speed at which he's throwing them out is so fast that you're you're always got to be behind not quite my tempo it's all good no worries here we go
• 1:16:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's all good, no worries, it's so great because it again creates the illusion that he cares about Andrew.
• 1:16:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: But he's trying to be supportive.
• 1:16:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like it makes it seem like I'm trying to be a supportive to someone who's really fucking up, you know?
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is almost like a cult member, a cult leader type of thing.
• 1:16:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because it is.
• 1:16:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, because all the other people in the band have probably been through this as an initiation ceremony.
• 1:16:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they're so dialed into this codependent toxic relationship that they don't have any free will to fight back.
• 1:17:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, they don't think they have any free will to fight.
• 1:17:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, somebody should stand up and be like, stop doing this.
• 1:17:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: You've done this to all of us, stop it, or, you know, something like that, where it's a stop, but they're all so scared.
• 1:17:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: and they like the prestige of being in this very famous band that they don't say anything while this guy absolutely lures nemen in to utterly destroy him.
• 1:17:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: Try to utterly destroy him.
• 1:17:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:17:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: I watched people during the shark documentary.
• 1:17:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: I would because I'm always listening to you know, A cause I'm the editor, so I listen, I watch all the footage.
• 1:17:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then also because I keep my ears open and they would say various complaints about Hoover mostly to do with safety.
• 1:17:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then I would say, or mistakes that Hoover might be making, and then I would say, well, let me get you on camera.
• 1:17:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: So let me get you, I could not get them to say those things on camera.
• 1:17:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: I could not get them to say those things to Hoover.
• 1:17:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: Finally, this is actually true story.
• 1:17:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if I'll put this in.
• 1:17:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: But like, I was like, I need somebody because what I want for the film is to discuss the safety issues, to discuss what the movie is about.
• 1:18:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so I need someone to articulate,
• 1:18:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: What's fucked up about this?
• 1:18:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, you know, so that I can have the argument.
• 1:18:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: So finally, I staged an argument between me and Hoover.
• 1:18:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: I said, you know what I'll do it.
• 1:18:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll get and I got the camera set up and I didn't tell Hoover what we were doing or no, I did.
• 1:18:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I did tell Hoover what I was doing.
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'd late and I laid into him and he didn't fight back against me.
• 1:18:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: It was the weirdest thing and then and then I never put it in the movie because I'm not really a character in the film and so it just didn't not have it made sense, but it was, but the reason I bring it up was all these people knew what was going on.
• 1:18:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:18:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: and but they would not actually deal with it the only person who stood up to Hoover on that shoot was me you know and then they would come to me because I was the only one who wasn't I mean I was scared of him too but I wasn't as scared of him as everybody else right at that point you know yep people people are just how can I say this I think people are unaware at how
• 1:19:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: uh, I think there is this belief.
• 1:19:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, free will, free speech, but like, there are studies that show how you can do certain things to control people.
• 1:19:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's how cold, cold leaders become cold leaders.
• 1:19:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you know, we see this all in all arenas, how they manipulate information, manipulate the way they do a lot of the information, uh, catatastrophies everything, catastrophies everything, and you know, just kind of create this whole,
• 1:19:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: way of dialoging that creates this idea that you need this person.
• 1:19:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what Fletcher is doing here.
• 1:19:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's creating this dialogue.
• 1:19:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: You need this person.
• 1:19:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to show you all the things you're doing wrong.
• 1:19:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're dragging or you're going to oh, you're rushing.
• 1:19:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're dragging or you're rushing.
• 1:19:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you're not going to write.
• 1:19:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: You need me to help you be a great player.
• 1:19:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: And until you let me do that, I'm going to brow beat you.
• 1:19:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think you make a great point and I think the big thing because they're all these situations where a thing went down and there was a group of people there and the group of people didn't immediately stand up and say this is wrong.
• 1:20:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Whether it was a racial comment or a sexist comment or something like this where it's abuse and the thing is,
• 1:20:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: 90% of the time people don't actually stand up and so we can have the fantasy that of course I would be the person that would stand up and say this is wrong.
• 1:20:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: I should do this, but most of us don't and part of what people don't understand because and I'm sure you've been in this situation where something went off the rails and you're in the room is time actually goes really fast.
• 1:20:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: It might, you know those 30 seconds where you didn't say anything, they're gone.
• 1:20:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, and then yeah, maybe you go like, oh, maybe I should have said something or whatever.
• 1:20:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Most of the time, people just put, keep their heads down in these situations.
• 1:20:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what most of us do.
• 1:20:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because most people are uncomfortable with confrontation.
• 1:20:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: So they just want to throw it and get out of it.
• 1:20:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, because it brings, it reminds them of stuff maybe when they were growing up or whatever.
• 1:20:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: They're just not instinctually enjoying a confrontation.
• 1:21:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:21:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: I've had many situations with people
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: I've had many situations where I did not actually make a thing.
• 1:21:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, like I was, you go like, well, let's can we just get out of the restaurant?
• 1:21:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Can we just get out of here?
• 1:21:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Can we just make this, you know, like, let's just move on.
• 1:21:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: And the other thing is, and this is, you know, the theory of homeostasis, but if one person stands up to the bully, yes, the group will tend to attack the person that stood up.
• 1:21:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Why are you making ways?
• 1:21:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: Why are you making things difficult?
• 1:21:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I find this so frustrating in my own life for the last few decades, because I do stand up because if I was bullied as a kid and all these things, and sometimes one of my dad to be honest with you, which is why that dinner scene really hurt me this time around.
• 1:21:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: I have experienced.
• 1:21:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I make a very good point of to not.
• 1:21:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: And sometimes people call me a bully online.
• 1:22:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's because I'm pushing back.
• 1:22:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm still that fat nine year old kid who got bullied all the time.
• 1:22:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so it's like to me, I'm always trying to push back.
• 1:22:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: But if you make the noise, people sometimes turn on you because you're the one that's like,
• 1:22:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Shining a spotlight on it.
• 1:22:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you would just shut up, we could just get past this moment.
• 1:22:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, well, no, how are we ever going to stop these moments from happening?
• 1:22:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, you're right, Steve.
• 1:22:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: There is a psychological thing where people even turn on the person who's trying to stop this stuff from happening.
• 1:22:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's really weird.
• 1:22:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the the the theory is homeostasis, which is basically like whatever situation you're used to like a very typical example of it is if you have like a family and there is an alcoholic or dangerous or abusive parent and they go out of the picture.
• 1:22:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: One of the kids will probably start acting out in a negative way to ring because the thing they're used to the base level of their family is that level of tension the tension goes away someone else has to create it and the opposite things happens is that if you're used to the level of abuse someone who calls the abuser on it actually escalates the tension levels right and so that seems worse than where you were before when everyone was just tolerating the abuse.
• 1:23:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, so yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's totally true and a difficult thing, but then the other part of it is depending on how you fight back, what sometimes people just create more abuse, that's true because sometimes you don't know what the end results going to be from standing up and do you have the real you have the tools to handle what happens when that person is confronted or challenged.
• 1:23:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and then you, and then, and then it ends up that you're yelling at the heavy kid who and talking about his Mars bars and happy news, and that becomes his trauma that then he takes on.
• 1:23:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he pushes back on someone else and that becomes their trauma.
• 1:23:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 1:23:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, what we're going to see in the movies for sure.
• 1:23:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:23:54
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 1:23:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, we're back in.
• 1:23:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: He is either rushing or he's dragging and he's pushing him to go, like, which one is it?
• 1:24:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I just want to, again, a non-emysician, I tried to do research on this, but, and this is the thing about this.
• 1:24:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: this idea that a drummer must have like metronome like to the millisecond rhythm that must be exactly this and that the purpose of a jazz drummer is to precisely like a machine which reduces the specific tempo is kind of the antithesis of jazz music.
• 1:24:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like the whole point of jazz music is that you're in the groove, yes, that you're is that you're communicating with the other musicians in that particular moment.
• 1:24:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:24:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so this thing that Fletcher is going of like not my tempo.
• 1:24:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's it's it's it's a little bit ridiculous in that sense, you know.
• 1:24:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Some of the best jazz is not controlled.
• 1:24:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, music, exactly.
• 1:24:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, what this jazz, and there are jazz bands like this with conductors and all this stuff, but what this very much seems to be is, this band is there to do flexors bidding and present his music exactly as he wants it to be.
• 1:25:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 1:25:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: It isn't for them to emerge as musicians and find their voice and, you know, right, that's not what the idea is.
• 1:25:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, as Neiman still thinks he's maybe going to do okay, a fletcher walks away from him, and then all of a sudden and really directly out of the Charlie Parker story, he grabs a folding chair and hurls it that Neiman's head who ducks.
• 1:25:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is amazing because if you were to make this movie nowadays, if there would be all kinds of discussions.
• 1:25:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there weren't, there weren't discussions back then, but there would certainly be way more discussions about, well, what kind of teacher are they pushing and then other people would be defending this thing because everyone's too soft, everyone's a snowflake.
• 1:25:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's a fascinating thing to watch this movie now in 2026, especially that moment.
• 1:26:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I mean, me growing up watching college basketball, Bobby Knight did that shit all the time.
• 1:26:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:26:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: I grew up at a time when those coaches, I'm sure you experienced that too, Steve.
• 1:26:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: We teachers would go a little far, go crazy or whatever.
• 1:26:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so this seems so shocking in the moment.
• 1:26:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's perfect timing, too, because we've just started to care for Neiman.
• 1:26:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then we're seeing him like struggle in this moment.
• 1:26:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: And we've all been in this moment.
• 1:26:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: I had this with my dad.
• 1:26:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, what is that's the wrong wrench?
• 1:26:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: What did I say?
• 1:26:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: What wrench to get me out of the toolbox?
• 1:26:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'd be like, I don't know.
• 1:26:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't like tools.
• 1:26:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
• 1:26:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: What tool to get you?
• 1:26:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then he'd like, you know, come to the toolbox, dump them out and grab the right one.
• 1:26:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then at times, and then sometimes he would lift it up, like as almost as a playful threatening to me and as a goddamn.
• 1:26:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I have been in this moment before.
• 1:26:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but it is a shocking moment in the movie just when we're starting to care for this kid.
• 1:26:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's shocking on purpose, you know, I mean, what I would assume I don't know what was in your dad's head.
• 1:27:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I assume your dad didn't set you up to make a mistake.
• 1:27:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, so he could threaten you with a ring.
• 1:27:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, it was that he had told me what a 916 or whatever the fuck measurement wrench was.
• 1:27:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Three or four times before.
• 1:27:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I could never remember it because I'm not good with tools and he would just get so frustrated.
• 1:27:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is something completely different.
• 1:27:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: because and it wasn't your first day getting tools for your dad.
• 1:27:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
• 1:27:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is his first day.
• 1:27:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: He literally just told the Charlie Parker story.
• 1:27:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 1:27:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so it's like we know, you know, it's like you've obviously done this on purpose.
• 1:27:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know that Andrew knows that yet, but we certainly know it.
• 1:27:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then Fletcher just charges at him.
• 1:27:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: And as he's counting, fletchers slap some across the face.
• 1:27:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Two, three, four, one, two, three.
• 1:27:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, man, it's a shocking moment.
• 1:27:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes.
• 1:27:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's like, you go, okay, psychological warfare.
• 1:27:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: I get what I'm watching here.
• 1:28:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: And as you said, sliding the sports tropes.
• 1:28:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: But the second he starts slapping him, it's like, it's a whole another violation.
• 1:28:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a whole other level.
• 1:28:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I knew of a, uh, an, an, an Ikito Sensei, uh, you would sit in, uh, saza, which is, you know, sitting kneeling, you know, and apparently he did this once.
• 1:28:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: He'd never did to me.
• 1:28:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: I heard that this had happened with his very advanced students that he had a little stick and he hit them with it.
• 1:28:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:28:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: When they were doing something, so to have them to see that they did not react at all to the pain.
• 1:28:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, that's old school martial art shit right there.
• 1:28:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:28:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:28:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I had not had that thing happen.
• 1:28:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: I have other things happening.
• 1:28:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're sort of somewhere.
• 1:28:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, he's slapping him in the face and to to Andrew's credit.
• 1:28:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: He keeps counting.
• 1:28:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, he goes and he's and I love that it's actually a musical question because he's slapping him and wants him to know how the slap relates to the tempo.
• 1:28:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 1:29:01
  [SPEAKER_09]: Was I rushing or was I dragging?
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: again.
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: The look of hatred in Miles Teller's eyes at this moment, it is, it is the fuel, hate and spite and anger and rage is the fuel that's going to drive this kid forward.
• 1:29:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:29:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 1:29:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: One, two, three.
• 1:29:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: One, two, three.
• 1:29:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: One, two, three.
• 1:29:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: One, two, three.
• 1:29:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Russian or dragon.
• 1:29:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Russian.
• 1:29:25
  [SPEAKER_09]: So you do know the difference.
• 1:29:28
  [SPEAKER_09]: If you deliberately sabotage my band, I will fuck you like a pig.
• 1:29:32
  [SPEAKER_09]: Now are you a russia or are you a dragger or are you gonna be on my fucking time?
• 1:29:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: You're gonna be on your time.
• 1:29:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Does he do this to all the new band members?
• 1:29:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he does, as I said.
• 1:29:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think this is the initiation.
• 1:29:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
• 1:29:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: I, does this do any good in terms of musicianship?
• 1:29:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: I couldn't possibly say as I've never played an instrument.
• 1:30:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I guess I did play saxophone, high school, but I didn't really care, you know?
• 1:30:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I played saxophone in school and didn't really care.
• 1:30:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's another thing we have in common, John.
• 1:30:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: What does that say?
• 1:30:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: Quarter note equals $2.15.
• 1:30:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Tell me a $2.15.
• 1:30:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: A 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2
• 1:30:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's also funny because J.K. Sim, I mean, it's horrible.
• 1:30:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:30:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's entertainingly horrible.
• 1:30:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess is how I would put it.
• 1:30:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
• 1:30:42
  [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.
• 1:30:43
  [SPEAKER_09]: Siteweed measure 101.
• 1:30:44
  [SPEAKER_09]: Pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup
• 1:31:00
  [SPEAKER_09]: and then he starts crying.
• 1:31:02
  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you one of those single-peer people?
• 1:31:04
  [SPEAKER_09]: Do I look like a double-fucking rainbow, do you?
• 1:31:07
  [SPEAKER_09]: He must be upset.
• 1:31:08
  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you upset?
• 1:31:10
  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
• 1:31:11
  [SPEAKER_09]: No, so you just don't give a shit about any of this.
• 1:31:13
  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you have a shit about that?
• 1:31:14
  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you upset?
• 1:31:15
  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, or fucking no?
• 1:31:16
  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, you are upset.
• 1:31:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: These are, it's the same thing.
• 1:31:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the fucking logic traps.
• 1:31:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.
• 1:31:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Where there isn't a right answer, and you lead them into the place where you know you have trapped them, so you can correct them, and then lead them another place to trap them and correct them.
• 1:31:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, because you know, because you're smarter, you're an adult, you've lived longer.
• 1:31:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the game, and the most 90% of the kids, any of ours in the kids, wouldn't be able to think their way out of a trap like this, or react in the moment the way he does.
• 1:31:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: Especially when they can slap, you know, there's a whole combo of mental,
• 1:31:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: uh... how can i say this a mental mind-fucking that's going on here uh... from fletcher that's unsettling to watch you know and so and credit the name and he's taken it and trying to navigate and survive it he's not standing up he's not thrown his sticks he's not balling his fists up he's dealing with you know this is what you wanted you want to be successful so he's caught up in that place of like well
• 1:32:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: how much of this can I take plus the fact that he is the focus and I'm sure as we've said that he might be on the spectrum, the idea being this focus in a group in a public group where he is of failing or seem to be failing must be fucking with him hardcore as well.
• 1:32:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, my advice to any teachers that are listening.
• 1:32:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: lay off trick questions.
• 1:32:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't like trick questions.
• 1:32:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're oftentimes where a teacher has some plan and they they lead their students into a particular place and then they get to go ha ha ha your wrong right um and
• 1:32:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: I literally can think of, I have one trick question I would ask, it was in a camera blocking class, but it existed for a very, very specific reason, which is to teach an actual lesson about the way they're approaching a thing.
• 1:32:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, frequently when teachers ask trick questions like this, it's about status.
• 1:33:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it's just about making you feel stupid, because when you lead someone into one of those things, they're responding because they'd make sense.
• 1:33:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's why the trick Russian works.
• 1:33:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, they're not doing anything stupid because of that.
• 1:33:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:33:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: The, you know, site readmeasure 101 and he says it vocally rather than playing it, he was doing his best to do what the guy wanted.
• 1:33:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: And didn't, you know, it just bugs me.
• 1:33:26
  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, I understand both.
• 1:33:31
  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm upset, say it's a little old band can hear you.
• 1:33:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm upset, louder, I'm upset, louder, I'm upset.
• 1:33:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sound off like you got a pair.
• 1:33:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're so right, because this is right out of fucking, what's his name in full metal jacket?
• 1:33:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
• 1:33:57
  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's right out of that because he says, you are a worthless, friendless, faggot lip little piece of shit who's mommy left daddy when she figured out he wasn't Eugene O'Neill and it was now weeping and slapping all over my drum set like a fucking nine-year-old girl.
• 1:34:11
  [SPEAKER_09]: So for the final, father fucking time, say it louder!
• 1:34:16
  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm upset!
• 1:34:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: And you knew he was going to bring back the parents thing and frame it in the worst, most condescending.
• 1:34:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: Me insulted the whole guy's the whole family and him all at once.
• 1:34:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:34:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Ugh.
• 1:34:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Bruh.
• 1:34:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.
• 1:34:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: That makes me angry.
• 1:34:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:34:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:34:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he calls, he kicks him off the drums, calls, and the other drummer, says, You can't take this abuse.
• 1:34:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: How do you think you're going to take this abuse on a sit?
• 1:34:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: You can't take abuse now.
• 1:34:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
• 1:34:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's all that all over again.
• 1:34:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right?
• 1:34:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: The Baldwin Monlogue from Clean Gary.
• 1:34:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Ugh.
• 1:34:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's still got to do that.
• 1:34:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: I know.
• 1:34:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's on the list.
• 1:34:50
  [SPEAKER_09]: I love that movie.
• 1:34:51
  [SPEAKER_09]: Whiplash.
• 1:34:53
  [SPEAKER_09]: Big boy tempo.
• 1:34:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: five, six, eight, eight, and then go right back in a look at that.
• 1:34:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what says anything.
• 1:35:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Nobody looks at Andrew and he has to just sit there behind the drum set and just take it all.
• 1:35:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: By the way, I think there was during this short, Shazel gave JK Simmons, the direction he says, I want you to take it past what you think the normal limit would be.
• 1:35:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't want to see a human being on screen anymore.
• 1:35:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: I want to see a monster, a gargoyle, an animal.
• 1:35:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Jesus.
• 1:35:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, JK kind of delivers.
• 1:35:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it does.
• 1:35:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: 100%.
• 1:35:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: We have a question from Patreon from username,
• 1:35:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: Augustus Loost asks, says, I've always viewed Fletcher as being a great example of the archetype of the authoritarian, authoritarian perfectionist or tour, similar to that of Kubrick and Roger Waters, who all made masterpieces at the cost of gaining infamy for being difficult to work with.
• 1:35:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: But countless masterpieces have been created by countless artists who treat those under them.
• 1:36:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Very well, is there ever a situation in which this kind of hyperdominary leadership in art is acceptable?
• 1:36:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: in art.
• 1:36:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
• 1:36:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's only acceptable when everyone is
• 1:36:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: in alignment with the relationship.
• 1:36:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like I know going into this situation that he is going to brow beat me, but he wants to get the best out of me.
• 1:36:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I am willingly as an adult, a fully developed brain adult, subjecting myself to this.
• 1:36:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's the only time that I would find it to be acceptable and okay in art.
• 1:36:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: And really just barely acceptable in art
• 1:36:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: art is about, you know, thinking outside the box to create truly great art and you can't do that if someone is constantly trying to keep you in a rigid way of doing things.
• 1:36:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so yeah, that's the only time I would ever think something like this is valid in the arena of art.
• 1:37:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: I 100% agree.
• 1:37:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's exactly what I think.
• 1:37:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'll give two examples, one from a movie we just did, which is the kids running across the trestle in standby me, where not emotional enough and robbed them on purpose.
• 1:37:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: He put on an act to scare the crap out of them.
• 1:37:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: They did it.
• 1:37:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: They did a great performance and ran up and hugged that hug Rob and said, we did it.
• 1:37:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's just what you're talking about.
• 1:37:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: The other one being opening over apocalypse now is he gets Martin Sheen drunk.
• 1:37:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: He is asking him about his father.
• 1:37:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: Martin Sheen is genuinely upset.
• 1:37:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: He punches a mirror.
• 1:37:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's really bleeding.
• 1:37:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: Copula said, let's stop shooting and Martin went if you stop shooting.
• 1:37:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll kill you essentially and says that it was one of the great transformative performance moments of his life.
• 1:37:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so that's just what you're talking about.
• 1:37:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we're going way out there, but we're going there together.
• 1:37:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, you know, that's the thing.
• 1:38:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because there's an implied sense of trust in that situation.
• 1:38:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:38:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: Andrew is sitting thinking he's looking his buddy,
• 1:38:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: starts practicing and it is sweaty and it is brutal and it is painful.
• 1:38:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I know I've said this in a short recently, but I'm gonna say it again here, which is like, this is one of the things I'm very worried that AI is robbing us of.
• 1:38:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: Because the need to, the only way to get the drums to sound the way you wanna get the drums to sound is hours and hours, thousands of hours of sweaty, difficult, painful practice.
• 1:38:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: And you learn things about music through that process that you can't learn any other way.
• 1:38:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's one of the things that worries me about AI, is that you're not forced to do that.
• 1:38:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: You could just say, well, play the drum solo perfectly,
• 1:38:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: So, and as I think I said, Miles Teller was a drummer, he'd been drumming since he was 15, but he was a rock drummer.
• 1:38:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: He just isn't the same thing.
• 1:38:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so as soon as he gets the gig, he starts practicing, trying to learn jazz drums.
• 1:38:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Damien Chisel is one of his teachers.
• 1:38:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's coming over regularly to practice with him.
• 1:39:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: The hardest thing is adjusting the grip, because he had a standard grip, which is where you hold the both sticks the same, and this was, they needed the jazz grip.
• 1:39:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: That was really, really hard.
• 1:39:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: He definitely did have bloody hands and bloody fingers and blisters and all the things we're seeing in the scene now.
• 1:39:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we watch miles or Andrew just pushing through the pain, grimacing, rate shot past the symbol as blood is pouring out from the fan date and we'd see more blood on the hands.
• 1:39:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's strained, blood's dripping on the drums.
• 1:39:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: It is just brutal.
• 1:39:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: You can either fold up and leave like Matt's did or if you're going to stay in the situation, you can try to get better.
• 1:39:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what Neiman does, whether it's healthier or not is a whole another conversation.
• 1:39:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: But Neiman is clearly determined to achieve something.
• 1:40:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: So he's willing to put himself through this kind of pain and torture in order to get better.
• 1:40:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's pushing himself.
• 1:40:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: you know, and so whether that's right or wrong is up to every person to decide, but I understand that and I, you know, have done that.
• 1:40:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: So I get it, you know, to me it's just separating the two out.
• 1:40:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's no question in my mind that if you want to be greater to thing, you need to do whatever version of this this is.
• 1:40:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe your fingers won't bleed.
• 1:40:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe you won't, you know, like maybe won't have so much cardio involved, but you got to keep at it and add it.
• 1:40:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: That is the only
• 1:40:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:40:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: It is, it is flexured method of getting him here.
• 1:40:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:40:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have checked to.
• 1:40:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:40:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not the fact.
• 1:40:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: I actually, I think as a celebration, I mean, that's what, again, it's a sports movie.
• 1:40:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is rocky getting up and drinking the eggs and going out and doing what he has to do on that run every single morning.
• 1:40:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.
• 1:40:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what's required if you want to achieve this level of greatness.
• 1:40:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.
• 1:40:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: And now we're going to go to essentially the opposite thing, which is he's on his date when the call.
• 1:41:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
• 1:41:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: By the way, when she takes that first bite of pizza, I do not think the pizza, I think the the actor is making the choice that that pizza is not good.
• 1:41:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: She kind of covers her mouth a little bit and sort of a reaction.
• 1:41:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that's a lovely little actor choice, if I'm right about that.
• 1:41:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, it's cool.
• 1:41:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: And what we, because what we find out is the reason he goes to this place to get pizza, he likes the music.
• 1:41:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, they play.
• 1:41:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: When I wake, what?
• 1:41:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's an name of the song.
• 1:41:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Jackie Hill, July 17th, 1938.
• 1:41:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Bob Ellis on the drums.
• 1:41:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: Has she ever met anyone who's this sort of obsessively about a thing?
• 1:41:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: No, and I think this is why this is a fascinating thing to look at because she doesn't have her life figured out.
• 1:41:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: She doesn't know where she's going as we find out in this conversation.
• 1:41:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: And he does.
• 1:41:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: So there, true completely different states of mind.
• 1:41:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't think she's, you know, I think this may be your first date since you got the order.
• 1:42:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: a little more open at times a little less open at times I should navigating this.
• 1:42:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so yeah, I think as first dates go, they do such a good job getting that rhythm, the awkwardness of it, 100%.
• 1:42:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then and you could see each of them kind of trying, although she's better at it than he is of making a connection, there are a couple of nerds.
• 1:42:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:42:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they're just kind of like, you know, socially awkward at times.
• 1:42:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, every time I saw you at the theater, your
• 1:42:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: My dad says that I have trouble making eye contact.
• 1:42:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's just a key line.
• 1:42:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: And she takes that because you play yes and on a date and she goes, My parents like to criticize me too.
• 1:42:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I was growing up, my mom said I had a really big chin, and that's why guys wouldn't like me.
• 1:42:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
• 1:42:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you don't.
• 1:42:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: She does not have a really big chin.
• 1:43:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 1:43:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not a weird thing.
• 1:43:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, this is one of the most beautiful women who are gorgeous.
• 1:43:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: Her name is, yeah.
• 1:43:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: We hear that Mom wanted to be an actress and he asked her what she wants to do.
• 1:43:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I go to for him.
• 1:43:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: What do you study?
• 1:43:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a major yet.
• 1:43:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're like, what do you want to study?
• 1:43:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know.
• 1:43:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: And what's interesting to at this moment, Shazel's put them now in these close-ups.
• 1:43:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: And they're just slightly tight.
• 1:43:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: So they're, they sometimes you call it a Warner Brothers hairstyle, which is I'm showing John, which is the close-up end's right mid-for-head.
• 1:43:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: So you don't see the hair.
• 1:43:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it just makes it a little bit uncomfortable.
• 1:43:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: These kind of extra tight close-ups, I think.
• 1:43:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so he says, and this reveals a lot about him.
• 1:43:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: So Ford is just like a random school?
• 1:43:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I applied to a bunch of schools and Ford
• 1:43:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: the best music school in the country.
• 1:43:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: She's a bit, you know, there's a pause there.
• 1:43:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: She doesn't like it.
• 1:43:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so she pushes back on it.
• 1:43:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then he gets away in, so yeah.
• 1:43:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Because he can't see how other people see the world.
• 1:44:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 1:44:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 1:44:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's like, what's the point?
• 1:44:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, why are you, where's your determination?
• 1:44:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: What are you trying to do?
• 1:44:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: What are you trying to be the greatest ever in the history of the world at and how will you leave everybody else in your feet, you know, as we this pizza tell me as we at this point the date is not going so well kind of awkward else and then she because she is a much cooler person than he is Reveal something about herself she reveals that she's moved from Arizona she feels uncomfortable she feels like
• 1:44:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, people don't like her.
• 1:44:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of feel the same way that people at Sheafer.
• 1:44:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah?
• 1:44:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't think they like me too much, but I don't, I don't care too much.
• 1:44:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it just, it changes, you know, people change and things work out.
• 1:44:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I know.
• 1:44:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it shows his priorities.
• 1:44:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like his priorities is just to be the lead drummer in that band.
• 1:44:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:44:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's like he's on the reality show where he says, I'm not here to make friends.
• 1:45:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what he's thinking.
• 1:45:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and she, you know, I think she does surrender of vulnerability to him in that moment.
• 1:45:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, about the situation because he's maybe she caught herself being a little upset at what he was saying.
• 1:45:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so she's like, well, it's not his fault.
• 1:45:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was just asking me, so here I'm going to surrender this.
• 1:45:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then, yeah, he pushes back with what he's got.
• 1:45:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: So.
• 1:45:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think she's a sweetheart throughout this awful, totally.
• 1:45:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think what she does is despite the evidence of the sort of first half of the date, which isn't going that well, is I think what I see happening is that she goes, I'm lonely, you know, like, and maybe this is a person that could make me less lonely.
• 1:45:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:45:48
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so she decides to kind of take the plunge, maybe mistakenly
• 1:45:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of pisses me off when people pretend like they're not in college, you know?
• 1:46:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'm literally the only one I don't know.
• 1:46:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: What does she mean by pretend you're not in college?
• 1:46:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think she's, I think she's saying people in college who pretend not to be homesick.
• 1:46:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's how I took it.
• 1:46:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh no, I think she's saying that they, well, that's perfectly valid.
• 1:46:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't mean to say that that's correct, but like what I think it is is that she's saying,
• 1:46:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm at for them.
• 1:46:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what I'm doing yet.
• 1:46:28
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know why I don't know what I'm doing yet because I'm at college.
• 1:46:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what college is for and she's saying like sometimes people pretend that they're grown up and have everything all figured out when they should and don't.
• 1:46:41
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 1:46:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I just know that.
• 1:46:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, okay, because she says, you know, it kind of pisses me off that people don't pretend to be after she had said she's homesick in college.
• 1:46:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: So to me, I admit more and more of like, they're all trying to act like, yeah, essentially what you're saying just in a different way, they're all trying to act like they're cool and everything's fine.
• 1:47:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: When in fact, they're not, they do miss people, but they don't want to admit that to anybody.
• 1:47:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so they don't have a con, so she can't feel a connection to them because they won't be authentic.
• 1:47:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: She's an authentic person, and that's the difference there between her and other people and him.
• 1:47:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and this is, you know, for you writers out there, this is actually the power of the ellipse, which is that she starts a sentence, doesn't quite finish it, and goes to in college.
• 1:47:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: And so that gives the actor and then all of us audience members to kind of fill in what exactly she's saying.
• 1:47:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: And what's so great is that he does give some essential vulnerability back.
• 1:47:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: She's expressed her home sickness and her loneliness.
• 1:47:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: And we're kind of talking about what it is to be grown up.
• 1:47:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he says, I still go to the movies with my dad.
• 1:47:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he's revealing that little bit of vulnerability.
• 1:47:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: She puts her foot just next to his and touches it.
• 1:47:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: And he realizes.
• 1:47:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, nice.
• 1:47:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: But bang!
• 1:48:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's the moment you want, son.
• 1:48:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: So after the date where they're all dressed in suits, because we're at some sort of concert competition, everyone's getting ready, checking their music, and then we hear Fletcher's voice, and Andrew goes and spies on him as he's talking to, what seems like maybe a former student and a little kid.
• 1:48:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Fletcher is so warm and friendly to that little kid.
• 1:48:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:48:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because you have to remember in the construction of the movie right Steve, we have to, we have to be nemen.
• 1:48:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: So we have to also kind of like this guy be unsettled by this guy, see this guy be warm but also be brutal, just to fuck with our heads and it's brilliant, you know?
• 1:48:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think one of the key pieces that people forget about is that generally serial abusers are seductive.
• 1:48:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, if they weren't seductive, they wouldn't be able to keep you on the hook to keep abusing you.
• 1:48:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
• 1:48:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, and so this moment, I bet I bet Fletcher has turned on this charm over and over again to make people have a perception of him.
• 1:49:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh yeah, and I think this guy has endured the Fletcher train, right?
• 1:49:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: And now he's bringing a child to me, Fletcher, and possibly one day his child will take on the mantle and repeat the patterns under Fletcher.
• 1:49:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's that kind of complete mind control that these guys can sometimes have, especially in what would be cults, what you're looking at here.
• 1:49:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: And after we've seen Fletcher be so warm and friendly, the first thing he says is he walks into the room
• 1:49:37
  [SPEAKER_09]: There's up, pack, suckers, hurry the fuck up, get your music.
• 1:49:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: So, the sweet guy is not, it doesn't get sustained very long.
• 1:49:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then he gives super fast orders to everyone in the band of things that they should know.
• 1:49:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: And the biggest thing he says is the importance of this event.
• 1:49:58
  [SPEAKER_09]: Everybody remember Lincoln Center and its ill-cuses competitions to decide who they're interested in and who they're not.
• 1:50:03
  [SPEAKER_09]: And I am not going to have my reputation in that department
• 1:50:07
  [SPEAKER_09]: by a bunch of fucking lip-dix, sour note, flattered on their girlfriend's flexible tempo dipshits.
• 1:50:12
  [SPEAKER_09]: Got it?
• 1:50:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: There are no women in this band, right?
• 1:50:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I think you're right.
• 1:50:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there are no women in this band, which is why you can talk this way, right?
• 1:50:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is what they call locker room talk.
• 1:50:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: This kind of, right?
• 1:50:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so you see, appealing to their manhood, appealing to the size of their penis is appealing to all that kind of stuff is meant to,
• 1:50:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, immaculate these guys and make them follow him into the fire and they're all a bunch of banners right musicians this guy radiates a kind of alpha grow energy that can unsettle more creative people you know yeah that's a great that's a great point and then we have one more important plant which is that he goes he picks up one of the of the score of the books and says if I ever find one of these line around again I swear to fucking God
• 1:51:04
  [SPEAKER_09]: I will stop being so polite.
• 1:51:05
  [SPEAKER_09]: Get the fuck out of my sight before I demolish you.
• 1:51:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we know this this book is very, very important.
• 1:51:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't it's it's like they treat it like this is the playbook at the Super Bowl that you don't want the other team to get.
• 1:51:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like they're going to look at your arrangement of whiplash and go, I know I'm going to take these guys out, you know.
• 1:51:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: And they do their first song, and everything seems to go pretty well.
• 1:51:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Neemons turn in the pages, that's his only job.
• 1:51:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: After the set, Tanner, the first drummer, hands, Neem in the book.
• 1:51:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hold on this for the second set.
• 1:51:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: The first thing Neemon does is go to get a soda, put the book on a chair, and we go, oh no.
• 1:51:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
• 1:51:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: And now Tanner and this to me is the programming of the abuser.
• 1:51:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.
• 1:51:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Because he completely loses it.
• 1:52:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you see it?
• 1:52:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: How could you be so fucking stupid?
• 1:52:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know maybe a janitor came by or something.
• 1:52:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: A janitor?
• 1:52:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
• 1:52:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: Find a fucking folder.
• 1:52:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: A fucking janitor.
• 1:52:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: You're a dumb fuck.
• 1:52:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: I dumb fuck.
• 1:52:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Find the folder.
• 1:52:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
• 1:52:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Would Tanner have ever behaved this way before being fluttered student?
• 1:52:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think so, and this is not from a place of I am a hateful angry person.
• 1:52:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is a place of fear, and horror, and what is going to happen to him if Fletcher finds out.
• 1:52:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: So you can judge Tanner for this outburst if you like, but you have to also put it in context to know that this is a guy who's clearly been ridden by Fletcher the whole time he's been in this band, and it's utter fear that he's lashing out at the...
• 1:52:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, because six months earlier, Tanner was the guy at not my tempo brought this year's, you know, he's been through all this, yeah.
• 1:52:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:52:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:52:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then as this this is building, we hear from off screen, Fletcher Yell.
• 1:53:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Except that's not JK Simmons.
• 1:53:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's actually Damian Chisel, pretending to be JK Simmons yelling Tanner.
• 1:53:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's hilarious.
• 1:53:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: She's just fucking Christ.
• 1:53:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: Where have you been?
• 1:53:11
  [SPEAKER_09]: And they explained that Neiman lost the folder.
• 1:53:14
  [SPEAKER_09]: The folder is your fucking responsibility, Tanner.
• 1:53:16
  [SPEAKER_09]: Why would you give it to Neiman?
• 1:53:17
  [SPEAKER_09]: right you get a calculator to a fucking retar he's gonna try to turn on a TV with it get your sticks and get your ass on stage it's great that he he manages to insult both of them you know yes I can't go on stage I don't know the charts by heart
• 1:53:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you fucking kidding me?
• 1:53:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: I did.
• 1:53:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: You know this.
• 1:53:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: I need the music.
• 1:53:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's my memory.
• 1:53:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: I need visual cues.
• 1:53:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: Visual cues.
• 1:53:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
• 1:53:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a medical condition.
• 1:53:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: A medical condition.
• 1:53:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: What you fucking song, Jay, Gupta, play the goddamn music.
• 1:53:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you think it's true that Tanner needs visual cues that he has some medical thing?
• 1:53:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, but because I think when he says you know this, that's the key, that line is key, which means like when he was first in my mind in my head cannon, when he was first coming into Fletcher's band, this is that let me connect with you and find out things about you like you found out about, oh yeah, parents so I think this was Tanner telling him, hey, I have trouble
• 1:54:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: this I have a medical condition, this or that, and I'm sure Fletcher has used that in certain moments.
• 1:54:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so for him to say, you know this, that's a familiarity thing.
• 1:54:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: We've shared this information before.
• 1:54:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think that, I think he absolutely knows he has a medical condition, and I think Fletcher, I think Tanner is trying to use that as like a final excuse to get out of
• 1:54:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is like Tanner's nightmare, you know, like this is what he, because he does have this issue, the idea, which is also why he should never have handed his book off to Neiman.
• 1:54:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: Fletcher's right about that.
• 1:54:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: And Tanner says, I can't.
• 1:54:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: And Neiman, a second after says, I can.
• 1:55:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:55:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like I know my answer to this question, but is there any chance that Andrew
• 1:55:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think there's a very good chance.
• 1:55:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know why?
• 1:55:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because of what we've seen from him all the way up until this moment.
• 1:55:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: He has been determined.
• 1:55:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: He has been, you know, rattled by a fletcher, but you can tell that he's got an arrogance.
• 1:55:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's got a belief in himself, a cockiness about where he wants to be almost bordering on a leadism.
• 1:55:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so, for he, I would not put it past him if he took a chance to like get rid of that book or lose that book on purpose.
• 1:55:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: because as I said, this is a young kid who's brain is still forming his emotional vocabular is still forming.
• 1:55:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: And when you're at that young age, you'll do childish shit like this because you want to succeed, you know?
• 1:55:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I would not put it past him for an even to do that.
• 1:56:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Based on the way it's shot and based on Miles Tellers' performance, yeah, yeah, I don't think that he did.
• 1:56:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think there's anything in the shot selection or his performance that indicates that he did that.
• 1:56:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, but it's definitely possible.
• 1:56:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: And the thing about that is to me, if he did that this early in the film, it totally changes the movie.
• 1:56:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're so right.
• 1:56:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're 100% right.
• 1:56:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's this thing I'm saying about.
• 1:56:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not Fletcher's character that is sort of evolved in my brain in studying the film this time.
• 1:56:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's Andrew Neiman's character.
• 1:56:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, it's not just a sweet kid who is abused and then that drives him nuts.
• 1:56:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: There's Andrew's got an edge to him.
• 1:56:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: And if the edge is so big that he sabotages,
• 1:56:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: The lead drummer, you know, in the first act of the movie, well, this is a troubling kid, you know, is it something else?
• 1:57:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he loses sympathy, right?
• 1:57:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, as you go into it, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:57:05
  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we've placed my heart.
• 1:57:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, sir, every measure.
• 1:57:10
  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you better fucking help your memory doesn't fail you.
• 1:57:13
  [SPEAKER_09]: And I hope you play it a whole lot better than you did last month than rehearsal.
• 1:57:16
  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I do not intend to start losing now.
• 1:57:18
  [SPEAKER_09]: Get your sticks and get your fucking ass on stage.
• 1:57:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: On stage!
• 1:57:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I want to know what you think.
• 1:57:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, yes me about the folder.
• 1:57:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: And the folder is a legitimate question.
• 1:57:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: But after's to ask you about this, why does Neiman volunteer immediately?
• 1:57:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, like that moment, there's an opening, and he takes it.
• 1:57:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Instead of feeling sympathy, instead of saying, you know what?
• 1:57:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll help Tanner some way.
• 1:57:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: He goes, I know it.
• 1:57:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: I can do it.
• 1:57:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like that moment, how is that different from if he had hidden the book?
• 1:57:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess is my question.
• 1:57:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the differences is one is intentionally sabotaging someone.
• 1:57:54
  [SPEAKER_07]: The other he can construct in his head that he's saving the band.
• 1:57:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, he could rationalize.
• 1:58:00
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, even though it's absolutely about his selfish pursuits to be, yeah, I mean, it's like it would have been cooler if he said, hey, you know, Tanner, you sure because, I mean, I think I could play it if you'd done it that way, it would have shown sympathy for Tanner, yeah, and saving the band, but you know, it goes, it goes the thing that you and I were saying in the beginning of like,
• 1:58:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: The, the, all of us had the fantasy of being discovered by Steven Spielberg or like that moment.
• 1:58:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I, I was in place all through high school.
• 1:58:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 1:58:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I totally had the thought if the lead couldn't go on today, you know, could I go do it?
• 1:58:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, do I know I had those thoughts?
• 1:58:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: I had every, I mean, I had every like like save the girl from the bully fantasy.
• 1:58:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: I had all of those things.
• 1:58:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:58:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: But those are those are, those are,
• 1:58:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: you know those are good like you you're saying like are you questioned whether you could right there's a difference between I know I can and when the moment opportunity in the moment pops up I'm gonna grab it fuck everybody else right and it's the best yeah yeah I think that's what I never had that
• 1:59:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:59:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's what Neiman has in this moment.
• 1:59:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's like, I don't care what you're feeling.
• 1:59:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm going to go, I'm going to go take it.
• 1:59:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 1:59:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's the difference.
• 1:59:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: And but I also think the film sets it up that way because Tanner is such a dick to Neiman in these certain moments that you're like, well, I don't necessarily feel sympathy for Tanner because he kind of, you kind of subconsciously think he got what he deserved a little bit.
• 1:59:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so now Neiman, who is our protagonist,
• 1:59:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're like, oh, yeah, let's see what he can do.
• 1:59:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: Here's the challenge.
• 1:59:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: But what great about the film is that he's a complex character just like Fletcher is.
• 1:59:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so, did he hide the book?
• 1:59:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: He certainly jumped at the opportunity to step forward without saying anything in the dander about it.
• 1:59:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so, it's an interesting situation.
• 1:59:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I wonder if some way Stephen, I don't know if you ever thought this, but like Fletcher sees himself in like a young Fletcher in the end.
• 1:59:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: possibly.
• 1:59:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe he was this nerd who a band or a writer was kind of a loof distant, wanted to achieve things, didn't know how to do it, and then a teacher like Fletcher came along and made Fletcher Fletcher.
• 2:00:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if that's an element of this.
• 2:00:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's very interesting that he says his dad is a writer.
• 2:00:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I guess he's a teacher and flutter was a musician and is now a teacher, right?
• 2:00:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, and so like on some level, flutter didn't become Charlie Parker or Duke Gellington, right?
• 2:00:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, right?
• 2:00:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I, I, I also think like it just, it's just messing with essential sports movie structure because what Roy Hobbes shows up on the natural and doesn't get a chance to play, literally the guy who's who's, uh, position he takes dies.
• 2:00:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: in order for him to finally get the slot, which is exactly what's just happened here, is that he got thrown up to the bigs unexpectedly because of this thing with the music.
• 2:00:52
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, you know, it's following perfect hero sports movie structure.
• 2:00:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 2:00:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 2:00:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: And they start, and he sounds good, and you could see flutcher is, you know, impressed and nods, and the camera pushes in on the drum rolls, and we fade out.
• 2:01:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: And first place.
• 2:01:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: Shave her conservatory.
• 2:01:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: He heads into rehearsal, which is, but I'm worth summing like the next day.
• 2:01:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: And as he walks by the piano, the pianist says, I'm fucking touch my full magnet.
• 2:01:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Listen man, I was in a fraternity.
• 2:01:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: That is some fraternity shit.
• 2:01:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: All of this stuff they say to him as he walks in the room is all fraternity shit.
• 2:01:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're the young buck coming in.
• 2:01:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Don't fuck with my shit, just because you got lucky in this moment.
• 2:01:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's all that kind of shit man.
• 2:01:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: Or sure it happens in all arenas where men are, well, I guess where humans are involved.
• 2:01:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the idea of like the young person coming in.
• 2:01:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: The old guard is gonna guard its territory strong.
• 2:01:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: I, so I totally think it's that, but I think it's also something else in this circumstance, which because it's what we were speculating about in the previous scene, the whole band has been speculating about and talking about, did Neiman steal that fight or on purpose?
• 2:02:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, they don't trust him now.
• 2:02:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, because it had been different if Fletcher had demoted Tanner to put Neiman in that position because he wanted to do it versus the kind of questionable tactics.
• 2:02:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, in Stride's Fletcher, and the first thing he says is, All right, let's get to work, ladies.
• 2:02:28
  [SPEAKER_09]: Ten of what are you doing?
• 2:02:29
  [SPEAKER_09]: It's core only today.
• 2:02:30
  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't have time for all for this.
• 2:02:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: And there's looks.
• 2:02:33
  [SPEAKER_09]: Ten, are you a fucking statue?
• 2:02:34
  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's go.
• 2:02:35
  [SPEAKER_09]: Get off the stool.
• 2:02:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: on nemen slips in his place and there's a there's a I think we've talked about this before is you know and over the shoulders when you're shooting past my shoulder to you or pretty shooting past your shoulders to me yeah sometimes we do what's called a dirty over or dirty over the shoulder and it doesn't mean it's sexual what it means is that the shoulder or some of their body part is obscuring part of the character's face that you're shooting at so that the the it's you call a dirty because the other face is
• 2:03:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and so the shots of Neiman as he sits down awkwardly is dirty past Tanner.
• 2:03:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: So you're very aware of Tanner's presence and the presence of other people as Neiman sits at that drum.
• 2:03:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
• 2:03:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: He almost gets obscured by Neiman's body.
• 2:03:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: As you were saying, right, which is so great.
• 2:03:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I also think this whole scene of transition is fascinating.
• 2:03:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because the other element you didn't mention was that, or sorry, Tanner says to Neiman, don't touch this kit, don't touch.
• 2:03:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that's even more, not only does the piano guy say, don't touch my book, then Neiman says, don't touch this kit.
• 2:03:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can, or yeah, sorry, Tanner says don't touch this kit.
• 2:03:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so Neiman is kind of in this nebulous place.
• 2:03:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so for a fletcher to come in,
• 2:03:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: and say these things to him.
• 2:03:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then you set, you see the shot of Tanner looking back over his shoulder as if what the fuck is going on here between these two guys.
• 2:04:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right?
• 2:04:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's just this kind of question.
• 2:04:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: We as the audience are a little bit seeing Tanner's point of view as well.
• 2:04:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Or feeling Tanner's point of view is like, what's this connection?
• 2:04:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then when Niemann sits down and has this, that's smirk, come back again, had really makes you question things as the audience.
• 2:04:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: Who's right, who's wrong, who's a part of this, who isn't a part of this, who's willingly going along with this codependent toxic relationship, it's very interesting.
• 2:04:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and this is the thing about the abuser is that it's not just that the abuser is abusive.
• 2:04:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's that their behavior forms the behavior of everyone else.
• 2:04:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, you know, and so like, oh, that that status is extremely important that, you know, being underhanded is okay, being rude is okay because the only thing that matters is your status in flexor's eyes.
• 2:04:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
• 2:04:56
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's it.
• 2:04:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: 100%.
• 2:04:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: 100%.
• 2:04:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and so I think at this moment when things are going well for Neiman, we're going to end part one of our exploration of whiplash.
• 2:05:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, we'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 2:05:09
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• 2:05:16
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• 2:05:18
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• 2:05:21
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• 2:05:22
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• 2:05:27
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• 2:05:29
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• 2:05:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: And of course, if you want to reach me, it's SR Morris on Twitter.
• 2:05:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: John, how would folks reach you?
• 2:05:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, as you reach me at the Roca says on Twitter and Instagram and TikTok, those places that I live on social media and head on over to my YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash John Roca says we just crossed 41,000 subscribers.
• 2:05:55
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• 2:05:56
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• 2:06:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: We will be back next week to continue our exploration of Whiplash right here on the cinephiles.