Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Wayne Adam Ford: The Serial Killer with a Conscience?

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Wayne Adam Ford: The Serial Killer with a Conscience? · PNW Haunts & Homicides

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  In this case, our deep dive is motivated by the fact that if you google serial killer
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  with a conscience, you're likely to return a handful of results.
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  Most of them are far more widely known than this guy, but Wayne Adam Ford may be returned
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  as one of a number of potential results.
• 0:32
  Hi Cassie.
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  Hi Caitlyn.
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  Hello creepy people.
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  Hello!
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  Hellooooooo!
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  Oh gosh, you really hung on there.
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  I made it a little ghosty.
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  You're just like gearing up for spooky season.
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  It's coming.
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  It's here in my heart all the time, but you know, if you're new to our creepy corner of
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  the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides where we chat about true crime paranormal and
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  all things creepy, spooky, oogie, sometimes icky in the Pacific Northwest.
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  Most of the time with you?
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  Primarily.
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  Case, it's icky.
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  icky, yeah.
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  We also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little bit deeper insight
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  into our topic.
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  So make sure to stick around if you're into tarot and all things kind of, whichy and cool
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  and fun and intuitive and artistic.
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  Ooh, look at you.
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  I don't know.
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  So what do we have for morning announcements today Caitlin?
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  Ooh, morning announcements.
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  We actually have a live coming up as you're listening to this.
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  If you're listening to it on the date that it releases, we have a live for our Patreon
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  subscribers this Saturday.
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  Oh my gosh, it's going to be so much fun.
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  I'm super excited.
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  It's the first one like I'm kind of doing.
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  Yeah.
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  So I think you did the other two.
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  Do we only have two or three?
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  I can't remember.
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  I literally, wow.
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  Yeah, couldn't tell you.
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  I'm super excited because here's the thing you guys with the lives.
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  That's the one time where sometimes we both do know the topic.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Yeah.
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  Cassie didn't know necessarily everything that I was going to talk about in the two lives,
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  at least that I'm thinking of.
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  And I won't know everything that she's going to talk about, but I know the topic and I'm
• 2:52
  fucking psych.
• 2:55
  And of course, I have some genre specific wares for the live.
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  Let me know if you want to know what you guys have.
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  I'm going to talk about the live.
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  I'm still working on finalizing some spoiler alert.
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  There's going to be a part two to this.
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  Still working on finalizing part of part two.
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  Part of part two.
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  I don't think that my angle is going to be trying to convince you
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  that this guy has a conscience.
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  I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.
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  But I think it's an interesting aspect
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  that a lot of the coverage has sort of glombed onto.
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  And we'll get to that.
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  But I think based on that alone,
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  his background might be worth examining.
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  If you disagree, then you're just going to be ever so slightly short
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  on content for a second.
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  L'eshrog?
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  Go listen to one of the older episodes.
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  Yeah.
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  Of course, I'm burying some of the most compelling reasons
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  to discuss this case.
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  I'm burying the most compelling reasons
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  to discuss this case.
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  But that's because you have to agree to come along for the ride.
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  If you want the cookie, my dudes.
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  What if I don't agree?
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  You don't have a choice.
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  We literally have a partnership agreement.
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  There's no free will in this arrangement.
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  No, there sure isn't.
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  Wayne Adam Ford was born in December of 1961.
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  Of course, it figures that he would be a sage.
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  Oh, yes.
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  Aren't they all?
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  I mean, a lot of them.
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  Statistically speaking, yes.
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  I just want to throw out, I know a really amazing sage.
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  And I just want to throw that out there.
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  They are not a serial killer.
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  Yeah, that's true.
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  Not not not not everybody is.
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  Yeah.
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  Hi, Hannah.
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  Thank goodness.
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  Thank goodness you're not a serial killer
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  because I love with you.
• 7:43
  Yeah.
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  I mean, you're not, right?
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  Right?
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  Hannah.
• 7:48
  Hannah.
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  Right?
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  You know Dexter's girlfriend's name was Hannah.
• 7:54
  Interesting.
• 7:55
  Oh, I don't know.
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  I was thinking of Dexter too when you said serial killer
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  with a conscience.
• 8:01
  Oh, you don't know he's so much had a conscience as I mean,
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  he had the code.
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  Yeah.
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  It was like a way of formula.
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  A congeal for him.
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  That's true.
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  At roughly two years old, he suffered a fall
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  and head injury that required three stitches.
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  As a toddler, there was also a fecal smearing incident
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  in the family home.
• 8:31
  That's all I really want to say about that.
• 8:35
  Well, not exactly all.
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  But we're moving quickly through this.
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  If you're a psych major or really interested in the psych angle
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  of cases, just generally, then I guess maybe I'm only
• 8:51
  even mentioning it for your potential benefit, I guess.
• 8:55
  But I digress.
• 8:58
  This is not an altogether uncommon occurrence in young children.
• 9:03
  And for such a wide range of experience,
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  for such a wide array of reasons, some of which related
• 9:12
  to emotional or psychological development,
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  as well as neurological differences, and any number of other factors
• 9:22
  that I may not even be aware of just from my cursory research.
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  I'll be honest, most of which, I don't feel super qualified to speak to.
• 9:33
  Is there hard to understand?
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  Yeah, because I mean, number one, I'm not a parent.
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  Not that you need to be a parent to be informed about childhood development.
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  But I'm also not a licensed medical or mental health professional.
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  And some of this kind of dips a toe into those waters, for sure.
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  I have also encountered this behavior in scenarios that we're not going to dig into today.
• 10:03
  But it's just also not a topic that I'm psyched to explore, if I'm being honest.
• 10:09
  Yeah, I mean, neither.
• 10:10
  Yeah.
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  And of course, last but not least, there's the fact that I, myself, do not, in fact, poop.
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  So instead, let's talk about his parentage,
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  because by the end of this, you may have some questions about the people that raised this man.
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  I'm sure we will.
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  Yes.
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  I sure did.
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  Wayne's father, Jean, was born in 1938 in Missouri.
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  He was the eldest of eight children in his family.
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  And from an early age, he'd cared for his many younger siblings while they were growing up, primarily in the state of California.
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  Damn, that's hard.
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  Yes, kids raising kids.
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  Right, being a caretaker when you are a child yourself.
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  Jean would grow up to become a military man and a strict disciplinarian, the latter perhaps owing to serving in the Navy,
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  because I feel like they're particularly drill sergeant D.
• 11:16
  Are they?
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  I don't know.
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  I don't know.
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  Anyone military, I assume, is going to be kind of like that.
• 11:21
  Yeah, I would think.
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  Or the total opposite.
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  It's really, you know, up in the air.
• 11:27
  It could go.
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  Yeah.
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  But he actually tested in the top 1% of his incoming class.
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  So he went into intelligence work.
• 11:37
  Oh, okay.
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  So, yes.
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  Wayne's mother, Karen, was a cold and distant woman of German descent.
• 11:46
  At least once she became a mother.
• 11:49
  Oh, okay.
• 11:51
  Right, because she was a person prior to giving birth.
• 11:54
  She was?
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  Are you sure?
• 11:56
  Yes.
• 11:57
  She was, she was always German.
• 12:01
  But the cold and distant thing may have been more specific to her particular parenting style than her actual personality.
• 12:11
  Did you know that my last name is German?
• 12:14
  I guess I should have realized that.
• 12:16
  I've never thought about it.
• 12:18
  Yeah, so I am not, I am not German.
• 12:20
  I am not from Germany, but I have ancestors and Germany.
• 12:23
  It's where my last name comes from.
• 12:26
  It translates to rooster.
• 12:31
  So my last name is basically cock.
• 12:34
  Wow.
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  Just so everyone knows.
• 12:40
  I just wow.
• 12:43
  Karen was a small woman.
• 12:45
  My source material indicates roughly 5 to 106 pounds.
• 12:51
  Oh, oddly specific, but okay.
• 12:53
  Very tiny.
• 12:54
  Uh-huh.
• 12:55
  I realize we placed a great deal of importance on the weight of a woman back then and will actually until about 12 noon today,
• 13:06
  when the threat level of having a slightly elevated BMI was downgraded from threat level red to orange.
• 13:17
  Just to orange.
• 13:19
  Yeah, just orange.
• 13:20
  Which just fun fact.
• 13:22
  I will include a link to a reference page where you can read about threat levels if you're not a kid of the early 2000s.
• 13:29
  Anyway, aside from being what I now realize as an adult woman was essentially rail thin.
• 13:36
  Karen was outdoorsy as a young girl.
• 13:39
  She likely never saw herself in her eventual role of stay at home, wife and mother back then.
• 13:46
  Aww. That makes me want to pull my grandma's wedding dress out of the suitcase in the closet, because it's comically small.
• 13:56
  Tiny, tiny weeny.
• 13:58
  I tried it on when I was like 11 and we could barely get it to, yeah, oh my gosh.
• 14:03
  I was like, listen.
• 14:06
  Okay, did you have less ribs back then?
• 14:09
  Like they had less processed food.
• 14:12
  I'm just going to go out on a limb here.
• 14:14
  I mean, but I'm just saying like I was a leaven and this had fit a 18 year old woman.
• 14:23
  Yeah, what?
• 14:24
  What?
• 14:25
  Maybe just smaller bones, you know?
• 14:27
  I mean, I feel like I'm not a particularly big-bond person either.
• 14:32
  I am.
• 14:33
  I don't know.
• 14:34
  I'm very dense.
• 14:35
  I feel like just like I just want to go back in time and offer her like a couple of, I don't know,
• 14:43
  I don't have any fighters at least.
• 14:45
  You know, we don't want her to like, have her stomach get over full, but like,
• 14:50
  sliders, you know, you can like eat ones, see how you feel.
• 14:54
  Yeah, maybe a little spinach depth on the side.
• 14:57
  Oh, bitch.
• 14:58
  Okay.
• 15:00
  The pair met at a birthday party when Jean was stationed in Germany and Karen was just 16 years old
• 15:08
  and had only recently moved back to her family's country of origin, aka Germany, also Germany.
• 15:17
  Always Germany.
• 15:19
  From Texas, which I have to imagine was a bit of a culture shock.
• 15:24
  Damn.
• 15:25
  Yes.
• 15:26
  Jean was 20 years old, 63 and 235 pounds with a dark mustache, reminiscent of red butler.
• 15:37
  I don't know who that is.
• 15:40
  Worry not.
• 15:43
  Don't worry, my notes say.
• 15:47
  It took me a minute to place that name as well.
• 15:51
  The name of his co-stars, fictional character, might spark at least a fuzzy image or memory in the old grey matter though.
• 16:00
  Scarlet O'Hara.
• 16:02
  I've only seen it one time.
• 16:05
  Oh, okay, but she knows it because that was a very blank stare, Cassie.
• 16:08
  I've seen it one time.
• 16:09
  It was very long.
• 16:11
  Yeah.
• 16:12
  I don't remember it.
• 16:14
  Well, you will remember this.
• 16:17
  Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
• 16:20
  I've heard that before.
• 16:21
  Okay.
• 16:22
  For the rest of you, no?
• 16:24
  Anything?
• 16:25
  Bueller?
• 16:26
  Bueller?
• 16:28
  Another dated movie reference?
• 16:30
  Huh?
• 16:31
  Very dated.
• 16:32
  No.
• 16:33
  If that last line didn't clue you in, then I feel it's my duty to inform you that you have homework now.
• 16:40
  Just Google it, okay?
• 16:42
  Just literally Google that one line and the movie is going to come up.
• 16:46
  I guarantee you.
• 16:47
  It's iconic.
• 16:48
  Just do it.
• 16:49
  Is it gone with the wind?
• 16:50
  Gone with the wind, okay.
• 16:51
  It's probably going to be part of the pop culture, either, for about another hundred years.
• 16:56
  So watch the damn film.
• 16:58
  Or at least a couple of clips from YouTube.
• 17:02
  Okay.
• 17:03
  Come on.
• 17:04
  I know there was something about a curtain dress.
• 17:06
  And I know that.
• 17:07
  There was?
• 17:08
  From New Girl.
• 17:09
  It was in the movie.
• 17:12
  There was also a scene where she drinks aftershave.
• 17:18
  Oh my God!
• 17:20
  I like how you went British there.
• 17:23
  Apparently the cure for the Southern thing that's been popping up for us all day is just to...
• 17:29
  Just go British.
• 17:30
  Yeah.
• 17:31
  Now fast forward just a little bit.
• 17:34
  Karen was two months pregnant with Wayne's brother Rodney when the couple got married.
• 17:40
  Their wedding was held in the small village where her grandmother lived and was presided
• 17:45
  over by the mayor at the time.
• 17:48
  Dang, popular.
• 17:49
  Really small village.
• 17:50
  Yeah, really small.
• 17:52
  He was the only guy who was ordained in the village.
• 17:55
  Yes.
• 17:56
  Yes.
• 17:57
  And then the mayor/efficient.
• 18:00
  Flash, judge, slash, sheriff, sheriff, head baker.
• 18:09
  Karen asserted later that their relationship changed that night.
• 18:14
  Karen implied in interviews, if not directly and implicitly stated, that Jean sexually abused
• 18:22
  her beginning from that night forward.
• 18:25
  Oh no.
• 18:27
  Yes.
• 18:28
  He just waited until she was trapped.
• 18:29
  I guess.
• 18:30
  Ugh.
• 18:31
  In a pattern more recognizable than plaid or polka dots.
• 18:38
  For many of us at least, Jean quickly became domineering an abusive according to Karen.
• 18:45
  That sucks.
• 18:47
  I don't care for it.
• 18:49
  She also claimed that Wayne had been a product of marital rape.
• 18:54
  Oh.
• 18:55
  Regardless of whether or not that was true, it wouldn't even be considered a crime back then.
• 19:03
  Nearly anywhere in the world.
• 19:06
  Barf.
• 19:07
  Yeah.
• 19:08
  Absolute barf.
• 19:09
  Yeah.
• 19:10
  They are not your property, even if you marry them.
• 19:12
  Yeah.
• 19:13
  Doesn't give you the right to shit.
• 19:14
  Yeah.
• 19:15
  You're going to be really angry.
• 19:17
  Oh, I'm already there.
• 19:19
  Yeah.
• 19:20
  You think you are.
• 19:22
  Wayne would be a teenager himself and likely learning about the birds and the bees before
• 19:28
  the very first state in the U.S. outlawed marital rape.
• 19:33
  Way to go, South Dakota.
• 19:35
  Woo.
• 19:36
  Care to play a guessing game, Cassie?
• 19:39
  Maybe.
• 19:41
  What year do you think it was that South Dakota struck down the quote, "marital exemption."
• 19:47
  It's okay.
• 19:48
  I didn't expect you to know.
• 19:50
  I'm really bad at dates.
• 19:51
  No.
• 19:52
  And it's 1986.
• 19:55
  You're not going to like it.
• 19:57
  No one likes it.
• 19:59
  Nebraska was such a close second.
• 20:02
  This state is credited in some sources as being the first.
• 20:07
  That's not a very good clue, but more importantly, that's right.
• 20:12
  You do smell a tangent because until 1976, every state had a marital exemption.
• 20:21
  That allowed a husband to rape his wife without fear of legal consequences.
• 20:27
  Despite being illegal now, certain states still treat spousal or marital rape differently
• 20:34
  than other rape offenses.
• 20:37
  I'm looking at the stragglers on this legal front like Ohio and Minnesota with much side
• 20:45
  eye because honestly, they had some pretty significant loopholes leading up to as recent
• 20:53
  as 2019.
• 20:58
  That's disgusting.
• 21:01
  It's not different.
• 21:03
  It's the same.
• 21:05
  Rape is rape.
• 21:06
  No means no.
• 21:07
  Fuck yourself.
• 21:08
  Yeah.
• 21:09
  Oh, man.
• 21:10
  I'm really glad we're on the same page about that.
• 21:16
  This could have been the end of the podcast.
• 21:19
  But let's get to the lightning round of this horrific game, shall we?
• 21:24
  Care to guess when this sort of enlightened way of thinking of women and wives is, I don't
• 21:29
  know, people rather than seminal receptacles hit the sheets in, I don't know.
• 21:37
  Let's just pick Germany.
• 21:39
  And you've unlocked another quote.
• 21:43
  In 1997, laws were amended to criminalize marital rape, incorporate gender neutral language
• 21:52
  and recognize the effect of psychological coercion.
• 21:58
  In 2016, German laws were rewritten to remove a previous requirement that a victim physically
• 22:07
  resist their assailants and be overcome by force.
• 22:13
  Oh, okay.
• 22:15
  Wow.
• 22:20
  This is why we can't have nice things.
• 22:24
  Just like the dates on these are mind blowing.
• 22:26
  Because you think like duh, duh.
• 22:30
  Yeah.
• 22:31
  It's pretty duh.
• 22:33
  Yeah.
• 22:35
  Or what it's worth, Jean denied her version of events in his own interviews.
• 22:41
  According to a quote recorded shortly after learning that Karen had actually shared her
• 22:46
  version of events regarding his conception with Wayne, he was supposedly deeply saddened,
• 22:54
  saying, that's really sad.
• 22:57
  Though it should be noted that according to context provided in some source materials,
• 23:03
  he seems to be referring to the fact that this was shared with Wayne.
• 23:08
  Oh, he said that Wayne was told this version of events.
• 23:16
  And that's what was sad.
• 23:18
  Okay.
• 23:19
  So his father denies this allegation, but doesn't seem to be particularly concerned with how
• 23:26
  sad a fact it is that this accounting of events is what his ex-wife lived.
• 23:33
  That was her experience.
• 23:35
  That's what she shared about their marriage.
• 23:39
  Don't get me wrong.
• 23:40
  I hate it from every single angle.
• 23:44
  Maybe I'm projecting here, but it doesn't seem like he's particularly concerned regarding
• 23:49
  the allegation itself.
• 23:52
  And that feels more than a little gross, regardless of what the laws governing their
• 23:58
  marriage at the time might have stipulated.
• 24:02
  Yeah, I was just going to say because he doesn't really have to be concerned.
• 24:06
  I mean, he really doesn't have anything to be concerned about.
• 24:10
  He's fine.
• 24:11
  I mean, just his reputation, I guess, but he's a white man.
• 24:20
  There's nothing else to say.
• 24:21
  Yeah.
• 24:22
  Nope.
• 24:23
  Nope.
• 24:24
  There sure is.
• 24:25
  You know what else is really sad?
• 24:30
  Well, frankly, a lot about this family and this case.
• 24:35
  And that's before Wayne's serious criminal history ever even begins.
• 24:40
  Yeah.
• 24:41
  Let's remember this is actually about Wayne.
• 24:44
  Yeah.
• 24:45
  Story of his life, right?
• 24:47
  I mean, your parents have a lot to do with your life.
• 24:51
  So although it may have been pretty common place for the era, by 19, Karen was saddled
• 24:58
  with two kids, one of which she may have deeply resented.
• 25:04
  She also had a husband that was away for his role in intelligence for six months or more
• 25:09
  at a time.
• 25:10
  That sounds great.
• 25:12
  I literally next line, Cassie, which to be honest, it does sound like that last bit about
• 25:18
  the hubs being away might have been the only upside for her.
• 25:22
  Yeah.
• 25:23
  In this instance, major, major plus.
• 25:27
  And then she stuck taking care of the kids alone, which honestly, if he was home, she was
• 25:31
  probably still stuck taking care of the kids alone.
• 25:34
  Yeah.
• 25:35
  At this point in history, let's face it, like it's just better if he's gone, I think, for
• 25:39
  her.
• 25:40
  Young Wayne seemed to crave both of his parents attention and affection without it being
• 25:46
  returned from either parental figure.
• 25:49
  No.
• 25:50
  There's a lot of complicated feelings to unpack regarding this family and their backstory,
• 25:56
  but unfortunately, this isn't a session with an appropriately licensed therapist as previously
• 26:03
  discussed.
• 26:04
  I want to be real clear about that.
• 26:07
  We can ruminate on the facts and the various counts, but we can't really do as much as the
• 26:13
  empath in me wants to do in order to fix the countless broken or damaged lives that are
• 26:21
  intertwined here.
• 26:23
  I guess that might really be the saddest part.
• 26:27
  Yeah.
• 26:28
  Because where do you trace all of this back to?
• 26:31
  And there's just a lot of what I think most people would consider evil, just ugliness.
• 26:39
  Yeah.
• 26:40
  Just keeps getting trickled down through the family line.
• 26:43
  That's trickled down economics.
• 26:45
  Reagan invented that.
• 26:47
  Oh, really?
• 26:48
  You had no idea.
• 26:49
  It's frequently been reported that although Jean denied the allegations in interviews that
• 26:55
  Karen likely needed to disassociate from her youngest son as a result of her PTSD and
• 27:04
  trauma following the sexual assault by her husband that resulted in her pregnancy with
• 27:10
  Wayne.
• 27:11
  It's just like a daily reminder that's so sad.
• 27:16
  We know that Karen had at least one prior pregnancy that she carried to term.
• 27:21
  She had given birth to Wayne's brother Rodney, aka his father, Jean's clear favorite.
• 27:30
  So another element of just like, yeah, be better.
• 27:35
  This was according to some recollections provided later at least.
• 27:39
  So a lot of people felt like, oh, yeah, no, it was totally like obvious that Jean had a
• 27:45
  favorite child, which is not great.
• 27:49
  I don't understand why.
• 27:53
  You made the other one happen too.
• 27:56
  Yeah.
• 27:57
  I mean, as kids grow up, they have their own individual personalities and, you know, I get
• 28:06
  that there might be characteristics that like you relate to one child more in certain respects
• 28:13
  than another, but you don't get to have a favorite child.
• 28:17
  That's, yeah.
• 28:18
  I don't know.
• 28:19
  I mean, hot take, I guess.
• 28:22
  Yeah.
• 28:23
  Is that I don't, I don't think I'm going out on a limb with that idea of that.
• 28:29
  I don't think so.
• 28:30
  The couple fought almost constantly throughout their marriage.
• 28:34
  It's probably not hard for most of us to imagine that at this point.
• 28:39
  And it would get much worse before it eventually, well, it never got better.
• 28:48
  Not in a happily ever after sort of way.
• 28:52
  That's for sure.
• 28:53
  Any type of way.
• 28:56
  In the late 1960s, Jean was assigned to Okinawa, Japan, and the whole family relocated.
• 29:04
  Wow.
• 29:05
  Yes.
• 29:06
  And Karen was miserable there and it led to an eventual suicide attempt.
• 29:15
  As a result, she returned to Urega, which is in very, very northern California.
• 29:21
  I still sometimes think of it as Oregon, though, because people actually misattributed it
• 29:28
  in Oregon, but that's where she started having and heavy air quotes here.
• 29:35
  Affair with her husband's 15-year-old brother, Billy.
• 29:40
  Uh-huh.
• 29:41
  I would...
• 29:43
  Uh-huh.
• 29:44
  I was not expecting you to say that.
• 29:46
  Uh-huh.
• 29:47
  Wow.
• 29:48
  Okay.
• 29:49
  Yeah.
• 29:50
  Which, listen, if you're a grown-ass married woman sleeping with a 15-year-old boy, that's,
• 29:56
  that's not an affair.
• 29:58
  We have a different term for that.
• 30:00
  That is also rape.
• 30:01
  Yeah, that is statutory rape.
• 30:03
  Is rape.
• 30:04
  It's all rape.
• 30:05
  And if you're mad at or hate your husband enough to do that with his kid brother to add insult
• 30:13
  to injury, it's time to see a divorce lawyer.
• 30:16
  Yeah.
• 30:17
  Because it's bad enough to cheat and it would be bad enough to be unfaithful to your husband
• 30:23
  with a child, but then for it to be his kid brother.
• 30:27
  Yikes.
• 30:28
  Of course.
• 30:29
  When Jean returned to Eureka and found out he was livid and forced the family to move
• 30:38
  after buying a house in Santa Rosa some 200-plus miles away.
• 30:44
  Not really sure how that affected his relationship with his brother going forward.
• 30:49
  I have to imagine not great.
• 30:51
  Probably not great.
• 30:52
  Yeah.
• 30:53
  How old was she?
• 30:54
  She was obviously over 18.
• 30:55
  Yeah.
• 30:56
  But I know she was young when they got married.
• 31:00
  She was 16 when they got married.
• 31:02
  I'm guessing.
• 31:03
  I mean, she was probably early 20s.
• 31:07
  I heard an interesting thing about people who are sexually attracted to younger people.
• 31:13
  I can't remember where I heard it.
• 31:15
  I don't know if we talked about it on the podcast with someone who was knowledgeable or if
• 31:21
  I was watching a documentary or something.
• 31:24
  But it was about how when you're sexually traumatized as a child, like she was a child
• 31:30
  when she got married and raped, right?
• 31:32
  Yeah.
• 31:33
  It's like your brain kind of stays sexually in that age.
• 31:36
  Yeah.
• 31:37
  There's a lot of really interesting sort of psychological principles around sexual trauma
• 31:46
  and the effect that abuse has on your brain.
• 31:50
  Yeah.
• 31:51
  Not okay.
• 31:52
  Yeah.
• 31:53
  That's such a tough thing because I mean, it's really hard.
• 31:58
  It's really like, it's a black and white thing and is it's wrong?
• 32:02
  But it's like, there is like this gray area.
• 32:06
  Right.
• 32:07
  Well, and then of course, there's Mary Kay Litternow.
• 32:11
  There's sort of this idea that like, that's not abuse.
• 32:16
  You know, she's a woman who's slapped with her.
• 32:20
  I mean, not even close.
• 32:22
  We're not even talking about like, oh, it's a really mature 17 year old.
• 32:26
  We're talking about like a 12 or a 13 year old.
• 32:28
  Oh, God.
• 32:29
  An actual child who is not altogether that far off from the age of your own children.
• 32:35
  So, no.
• 32:38
  No.
• 32:39
  No.
• 32:40
  But we have this tendency to be like, we want to like slap this, you know, boy on the ass,
• 32:48
  like it's a locker room.
• 32:49
  Yeah.
• 32:50
  He just won the big game like, oh, good for you.
• 32:53
  Score.
• 32:54
  Hot teacher man.
• 32:55
  It's gross.
• 32:56
  Yeah, it's not.
• 32:57
  No care for it.
• 32:59
  By 1969, Jean was discharged and returned to living in the family home.
• 33:05
  But of course, this did nothing to ease the household tension because actually it brought
• 33:12
  all of the sources of the tension into the one household.
• 33:15
  Yeah.
• 33:16
  That's how that works.
• 33:18
  The couple would divorce in the early 1970s.
• 33:22
  His parents' separation when Wayne was 10 years old resulted in a greater disconnect between
• 33:29
  him and both of his parents as they begin dating again.
• 33:33
  Oh, okay.
• 33:34
  Yeah.
• 33:35
  So, he's just like a little kid that's already feeling as if, you know, they don't love him
• 33:42
  as much and then that happens and just the disconnect.
• 33:48
  You know, just that he's not getting what he needs to develop a healthy emotional bond.
• 33:55
  Yeah.
• 33:56
  And then they're just going to go pay attention to their new partners and, right.
• 34:01
  As Wayne got older, he became increasingly aggressive and his behavior was problematic
• 34:07
  at school.
• 34:09
  Unfortunately, some of this behavior went beyond the classroom.
• 34:13
  Karen kicked both boys out of their home, starting with Wayne and then eventually the older brother
• 34:20
  Rodney.
• 34:21
  Oh, that makes sense.
• 34:23
  Yeah.
• 34:24
  Kick out the younger one first.
• 34:25
  Well, she liked him a lot less.
• 34:27
  Yeah.
• 34:28
  So, you know, their father recalled receiving a phone call from Wayne, stating he was out
• 34:36
  on the porch and wondered if his father would take him in.
• 34:41
  He did.
• 34:42
  When Rodney was unceremoniously locked out of the home one night, he simply started staying
• 34:49
  with the families of neighborhood friends, alternately.
• 34:53
  So he was couch surfing.
• 34:56
  Rodney or Rod, well, okay.
• 34:58
  So it started with Wayne and then it happened to Rodney as well.
• 35:02
  Oh, okay.
• 35:03
  Yeah.
• 35:04
  When their father learned of this, he would insist that Rodney come to live with him as
• 35:08
  well, much to Wayne's chagrin.
• 35:12
  Yeah.
• 35:13
  He wasn't super psyched.
• 35:14
  I can't imagine why.
• 35:16
  Great.
• 35:17
  I love how your favorite child is going to come in love with us, me, the other child that's
• 35:22
  just, okay, cool.
• 35:26
  Wayne didn't like helping his father with construction projects as his brother Rodney did.
• 35:32
  And you can see where just again, the divide is becoming greater and greater between him
• 35:39
  and just about everybody in his potential support system.
• 35:44
  The issues prevailed when as a teen, Wayne robbed a store while wielding a gun, so escalating
• 35:51
  pretty quickly.
• 35:53
  I think most of us would like to believe that we'd be self-aware enough to see the writing
• 35:58
  on the wall, that this was likely an early cry for help.
• 36:02
  However, his dad worked out a remarkably lenient punishment for him in this instance.
• 36:09
  Which is always great, please, let mediocre white men off the hook easily.
• 36:16
  When has that ever worked out poorly?
• 36:19
  Probably just didn't care.
• 36:21
  He said whatever.
• 36:23
  Yeah.
• 36:24
  He had to wash police cars after school for a few weeks.
• 36:29
  But eventually, this led to him stealing a cruiser for a joy ride.
• 36:36
  Boys will be boys.
• 36:37
  Am I right?
• 36:38
  Oh, God.
• 36:39
  Wayne enrolled in the Marine Corps at 17 with the encouragement of his parents.
• 36:45
  He arrived at boot camp in January of 1979, and thus began his somewhat tumultuous career
• 36:53
  in the military.
• 36:56
  Though it didn't exactly instill the discipline that his parents might have expected.
• 37:01
  In October of 1980, he met Kelly.
• 37:06
  He was a blonde-haired slender college student known to be a very kind young woman.
• 37:12
  How that ever ended up happening, I will never know.
• 37:17
  He was kind of the worst out the gate.
• 37:19
  I mean women like the bad boys.
• 37:22
  They really do.
• 37:23
  We're drawn to...
• 37:25
  Yeah.
• 37:26
  Listen, he would claim that he forgot her number after not calling her for days.
• 37:33
  And so I presume we're supposed to believe that what?
• 37:38
  He didn't own a pen?
• 37:39
  Couldn't write it down.
• 37:42
  Okay.
• 37:43
  Oh boy.
• 37:44
  Then on the flip side, he would also have fit several miles off base to come and visit her
• 37:51
  at other times.
• 37:53
  Classic fuckboy playbook stuff here, guys.
• 37:57
  Seriously.
• 37:58
  Yes.
• 37:59
  Regass lighting and love bombing at the same time.
• 38:04
  Oh, key terms.
• 38:06
  Nearly as addictive as crack.
• 38:09
  Crack a cane?
• 38:10
  That is a rumor.
• 38:13
  I have not scientifically tested that.
• 38:16
  Nope.
• 38:17
  Nope.
• 38:18
  Don't plan to.
• 38:20
  It's exactly the type of energy most of us have been trying to avoid ever since we went
• 38:25
  through our own personal, douche-filled, rough patches in our respective dating histories.
• 38:33
  If I'm wrong, all you have to do is write in and tell me that you have no idea what I'm
• 38:37
  talking about.
• 38:39
  My prediction is we receive zero emails on that topic.
• 38:45
  If you dated the same person your whole damn life and then married them, you have still
• 38:51
  heard from your single friends at one point or another.
• 38:55
  What a minefield dating can be, so don't email us if you're that person either.
• 39:01
  Their relationship would take a turn in November 1980 when they saw a car accident on the side
• 39:07
  of the road as they drove home from a dinner date.
• 39:12
  At the scene of the accident, though EMS workers quickly took over and police were on the scene
• 39:18
  Wayne was hit by a drunk driver.
• 39:21
  What?
• 39:22
  Oh my god.
• 39:23
  There was already an accident.
• 39:25
  Uh-huh.
• 39:26
  And then the drunk driver hit people that were there as innocent bystanders trying to help
• 39:33
  the people that had already been in an accident.
• 39:37
  What is going on in this town?
• 39:40
  Yeah, couldn't tell you.
• 39:42
  The impact shattered his front teeth, broke his jaw, and allegedly caused a serious head injury.
• 39:50
  Oh no.
• 39:51
  He was even in a coma for nine days.
• 39:55
  And you said he already had a head injury as a child?
• 39:58
  I mean, he says he did.
• 40:01
  It sounds like we have no reason not to believe that, but either way it's bad.
• 40:06
  It's not great.
• 40:09
  This is also not great.
• 40:11
  Kelly didn't realize he'd been hit by the drunk driver because she'd been gone for about
• 40:17
  20 minutes looking for a pay phone to call 911.
• 40:22
  Oh, for the first accident.
• 40:25
  Oh my gosh.
• 40:27
  When other witnesses at the scene asked her if she had seen the third vehicle, she responded
• 40:34
  she'd been in it, to which they countered, "No, the red car."
• 40:42
  We're going in another bystander, we're both hit by the drunk driver and have been thrown
• 40:47
  down in embankment, some 40 feet.
• 40:50
  Oh my God.
• 40:51
  Yep.
• 40:52
  Fuck.
• 40:53
  She does not realize this, even though people were like, "No, no, no, the other car."
• 40:59
  She's still like, there's just a disconnect there.
• 41:01
  Well, there would be.
• 41:02
  Yep.
• 41:03
  That's very confusing.
• 41:04
  There would be.
• 41:06
  So she drove around looking for him, confused about where he had gone, but also she's
• 41:11
  like, "Well, it's kind of a fuck, boy."
• 41:15
  Guess he just disappears on our dates now.
• 41:18
  I mean, boy who cried wolf, that's what happens.
• 41:22
  Between all the chaos at the scene, neither she or anyone else there realized that the man
• 41:27
  that had been hit by the drunk driver and her date had been won in the same.
• 41:32
  Wow.
• 41:33
  Yikes.
• 41:34
  Wayne has frequently maintained that he believes he suffered serious injury to his
• 41:40
  brain, which I don't doubt, but I just don't know that it's responsible, Wayne.
• 41:48
  It's unclear what if any brain damage resulted.
• 41:52
  However, according to both Kelly and his relatives, his personality drastically changed after
• 41:59
  the incident.
• 42:02
  When he woke from the coma, Wayne asked for her and Kelly came running.
• 42:08
  When Kelly arrived at the hospital, she was a little confused because there was a sign
• 42:14
  that said only visitors allowed were family members.
• 42:19
  So why the hell did they call her if she wasn't going to be able to visit him?
• 42:23
  The nurse was relieved to see her and waved her on through, stating that he'd been repeating
• 42:29
  Kelly's phone number nonstop until they promised to call her.
• 42:34
  Oh my gosh, so he did have her number memorized.
• 42:38
  He did after...
• 42:40
  Listen, his face was black and blue at roughly twice its normal size.
• 42:46
  And aside from his lip being nearly torn off, he was also concussed.
• 42:53
  Weird how after a serious injury like what he had that he did, in fact, remember her phone
• 43:00
  number.
• 43:01
  Maybe it just shook it loose a little bit.
• 43:03
  It shook some things loose, alright?
• 43:08
  Kelly thought it was pretty sus, that all of a sudden he could remember her phone number
• 43:13
  without any problem following such a traumatic ordeal, but apparently she didn't feel like
• 43:19
  pressing the issue.
• 43:21
  Girl, it's Red Flag City up in that hospital bed.
• 43:26
  Run.
• 43:28
  It's not like he's well enough to follow, so make the most of the opportunity for crying
• 43:33
  out loud.
• 43:34
  Seriously, run.
• 43:35
  What's he going to do?
• 43:37
  Yang Gowd is IV.
• 43:38
  Come on, not victim blaming.
• 43:41
  Just sometimes I wish that I could time travel and, you know, narrate certain people's inner
• 43:48
  monologue so that I could motivate them to do the thing that I wish that they had done.
• 43:54
  That's not weird, is it?
• 43:56
  No, okay.
• 43:57
  Perfect.
• 43:59
  Kelly met Karen, so that's Wayne's mother, after the accident.
• 44:05
  Kelly also ended up caring for him for about a week or so after he was released from hospital.
• 44:12
  Though Karen reached out to them, Wayne's father and brother apparently did not understand
• 44:19
  the serious nature of his injuries until years later.
• 44:25
  And it's pretty wild.
• 44:28
  Wayne reported that he had died from the collision and had only been revived after the fact.
• 44:35
  Oh, okay.
• 44:36
  Now we're talking like near death experience, like, come on.
• 44:39
  Did he see Elvis?
• 44:42
  Not to my knowledge.
• 44:45
  Kelly also was said to notice a shift in Wayne, but here's the thing, it didn't scare her off
• 44:52
  because he was actually seemingly more friendly and kinder than ever.
• 44:57
  Hmm.
• 44:58
  He was cured.
• 45:00
  He was cured of the fuck boy.
• 45:01
  Just a little knock on the head is the fuck boy, Kure.
• 45:05
  So I bet you can see where this is going.
• 45:08
  Two people trauma bonded by a devastating or life altering event.
• 45:13
  Well, in May 1981, they alloped.
• 45:17
  Oh, did they?
• 45:19
  Yeah.
• 45:20
  Sure did.
• 45:21
  Once they were married, things apparently changed quickly.
• 45:26
  Some familiar?
• 45:27
  A little bit, a little bit.
• 45:29
  Like father like son, allegedly.
• 45:33
  The typical violent and abusive pattern emerged as he became angry and demanding.
• 45:40
  He hit her one day when she had the audacity to query about his family after the wedding.
• 45:50
  Oh, okay.
• 45:51
  So unreasonable to think that she could just like ask questions about her in-laws.
• 45:58
  Honestly, the nerve.
• 46:00
  Well he tried to hit her actually and he missed, but whatever he did, it broke all of the
• 46:06
  knuckles in his right hand.
• 46:08
  Holy shit.
• 46:09
  That isn't karma.
• 46:10
  I don't even know what is.
• 46:12
  I know.
• 46:13
  And I'm not the least bit sorry when I say I wish he had shattered a bone in his hand that
• 46:18
  would have swam throughout his body and lodged into his spine to paralyze him permanently,
• 46:25
  preferably following a rectal perforation.
• 46:30
  Agreed.
• 46:32
  But of course, as I think you all know, it gets worse and not at all in that way.
• 46:39
  The rectal perforation, which is own boneway, which would have arguably been way better,
• 46:46
  but whatever.
• 46:48
  As newlyweds, I'm sure they were happily and frequently enjoying, shall we say, marital
• 46:55
  relations?
• 46:56
  Yes, that's what we'll say because I'm secretly 80 years old.
• 47:01
  They were bone in.
• 47:04
  All the signs have been there, people.
• 47:06
  I'm an old.
• 47:09
  Well as the female body is apt to do at times, Kelly became pregnant.
• 47:14
  He forced her to have an abortion when she became pregnant, all the while demanding more
• 47:20
  sex.
• 47:21
  Why?
• 47:22
  They're married.
• 47:24
  And here's the thing, this is not an abortion that she wanted.
• 47:30
  So just barf city all around with this dude.
• 47:33
  Oh my God.
• 47:34
  I mean, I didn't mean by that comment that if you're married, you can't have an abortion.
• 47:38
  I just meant like, I don't see his reasoning like they're mid-winter child.
• 47:42
  I just...
• 47:43
  Yeah.
• 47:44
  I love it when women have no bodily autonomy, like back then and then also possibly arguably
• 47:52
  in the near future slash present because we might be living in the prequel of the headmaids
• 47:57
  tale.
• 48:00
  And I know that you don't want to believe me, but it definitely gets even grosser in 1982.
• 48:08
  That's when he took a trip to Big Bear with his marine buddies.
• 48:13
  They went roller skating and met a couple of teenage girls because obviously what a normal
• 48:19
  thing to do with your bros.
• 48:22
  These gross idiots invited two 15 year old girls back to their cabin.
• 48:28
  The two young girls were assaulted because men are trash and not in the cute way that like
• 48:34
  raccoons are lovingly referred to as trash pandas.
• 48:38
  Ew.
• 48:39
  At certain points in history, not too distant a time at this point in the timeline, people
• 48:45
  hitchhiked without incident.
• 48:47
  So why would these young girls think that anything bad would happen to them?
• 48:52
  You know what I mean?
• 48:55
  They should think that.
• 48:58
  They should have the right to think that nothing bad will happen to them.
• 49:01
  Yeah.
• 49:02
  Yep.
• 49:03
  That's the part I never understand about all of the rampant victim blaming mentality.
• 49:11
  And I'm sorry.
• 49:12
  You've probably heard some version of this scenario before, but whether she's 14, 24 or
• 49:17
  44, a female or a female presenting person should be able to walk down any goddamn street
• 49:26
  well lit or not at any hour of the day or night, wearing whatever the fuck she feels like,
• 49:33
  you do not have to be concerned about being sexually assaulted and/or murdered.
• 49:38
  Wild.
• 49:39
  I mean, just a hot take.
• 49:42
  I mean, we learn this in fucking elementary school.
• 49:45
  Like, stay in your bubble, don't...
• 49:47
  Yeah.
• 49:48
  I can touch your own self.
• 49:50
  You have a body, touch that.
• 49:51
  Do what you want with that one.
• 49:53
  Don't take someone else's.
• 49:54
  Yeah.
• 49:55
  What's theirs?
• 49:56
  Sadly, it's just not the world we live in.
• 50:00
  It's not the reality of the situation at this time and place or any other in human history.
• 50:08
  Yep.
• 50:09
  That's optimistic.
• 50:12
  Yeah.
• 50:13
  I like where it's at.
• 50:16
  One of Wayne's friends went to drive the girls home, but when they pulled the vehicle over
• 50:21
  to assist another that was stranded on the side of the road, one of the girls screamed
• 50:26
  for help indicating they had been assaulted.
• 50:30
  And it was at this point in the story that I go, "Why the hell does something bad happen
• 50:36
  every time this guy pulls over to help somebody on the side of the road?"
• 50:41
  Some of the details aren't totally clear around this particular portion of the evening
• 50:46
  and the incident that took place, but the end result was that Wayne was arrested for attempted
• 50:52
  rape.
• 50:54
  Now that girl would later decline to press charges and was unavailable to make a statement
• 51:01
  regarding the incident.
• 51:04
  But I think it's fair to say that it's more than likely pretty clear what happened here
• 51:11
  and it wasn't good.
• 51:12
  And I hate it.
• 51:13
  Okay, bye.
• 51:16
  The couple would move shortly thereafter to Santa Ana because he's already been taught
• 51:21
  from an early age that, you know, when you have problems, you just move.
• 51:25
  They can't follow you.
• 51:28
  Following the move to Santa Ana, there was a small window of time in the remainder of the
• 51:33
  early 1980s where they moved repeatedly.
• 51:38
  He was still enlisted in the military at this time, but they were seeking some stability
• 51:43
  in terms of income.
• 51:45
  He would screw up at a job and then they would take off.
• 51:49
  He would find something new for work each time to keep them afloat until eventually Kelly
• 51:56
  was the one to find gainful employment, which certainly threatened his masculinity.
• 52:04
  Of course it did.
• 52:05
  His need for control only increased from the early warning signs like telling Kelly what
• 52:11
  to wear each day and it only continued to escalate.
• 52:17
  One night in 1983 when she went out with coworkers for dinner and he hadn't heard from her, his
• 52:24
  paranoia that Kelly was cheating was fueled to a fever pitch.
• 52:30
  Presumably drunk by the time she showed up at home, Wayne had geared up in the full camo
• 52:37
  get up.
• 52:38
  What?
• 52:40
  And was lying in wait with his bow and arrow in the yard so that he could catch her red
• 52:46
  handed and attack whatever man she was out with and obviously having an affair with because
• 52:54
  nothing says camo like tequila.
• 52:57
  Am I right?
• 52:58
  Oh my god.
• 52:59
  He was just outside with a bow and arrow hiding and waiting for a person.
• 53:08
  Or maybe that's a whiskey thing.
• 53:10
  Me drink too much whiskey is just what you do.
• 53:12
  Well, Kelly wasn't sticking around to figure it out.
• 53:17
  We'll get into their divorce along with the rest of the downward spiral next as in next
• 53:24
  week.
• 53:25
  What a freaking weirdo and not in a good way.
• 53:28
  No, not in a good way.
• 53:30
  I just picture him with like paint on his face and I know is that not the eyes?
• 53:37
  You're exactly crazy eyes.
• 53:38
  That's exactly what I picture.
• 53:40
  Oh my god.
• 53:42
  This man in what world is that a normal reaction and also like you were going to attack this
• 53:53
  person?
• 53:54
  I'm just gonna shoot him with my bow.
• 53:58
  Like what is this was just a coworker that like gave her a ride or walked her up to her
• 54:04
  door.
• 54:05
  I just asked questions later.
• 54:07
  Wow.
• 54:08
  Mark the white man model.
• 54:13
  The white man model.
• 54:15
  I mean, yeah.
• 54:17
  Okay.
• 54:18
  Should we do some Taro?
• 54:20
  Yeah, let's do Taro.
• 54:21
  Let's see what comes up.
• 54:25
  Okay.
• 54:26
  For Mr. Wayney Wayne here.
• 54:28
  Hey, I want to know something funny.
• 54:32
  His initials are waff.
• 54:35
  Waff.
• 54:37
  What in the actual wolf?
• 54:41
  Wow.
• 54:44
  As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.
• 54:49
  So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.
• 54:53
  Let's show them some love.
• 54:55
  You can find their info in our show notes.
• 54:59
  What do you get when you mix someone who loves true crime and horror movies with someone
• 55:03
  who's afraid of their own shadow?
• 55:05
  Someone like you?
• 55:06
  Yeah.
• 55:07
  How do you ask?
• 55:08
  You get the perfect podcast.
• 55:10
  We're Carmen and Joanna of Live Laugh Murder Podcast.
• 55:13
  We're not your typical true crime show.
• 55:15
  Here at Live Laugh Murder, we tell stories that might be true crime or they might be the
• 55:20
  plot of a horror film.
• 55:22
  Can you tell the difference?
• 55:23
  Don't worry though, because all is revealed by the end.
• 55:26
  We are true crime sometimes.
• 55:29
  So check us out.
• 55:30
  We release bi-weekly on Saturdays.
• 55:32
  And remember to live laugh, but never what Joanna.
• 55:37
  Order.
• 55:38
  Never murder.
• 55:39
  Thanks guys.
• 55:40
  Thanks.
• 55:41
  You guys were back.
• 55:44
  And don't worry, we did get more wine.
• 55:49
  Well, of course.
• 55:51
  All right.
• 55:53
  We're back from our delicious snack break.
• 55:59
  You always have to take a break.
• 56:03
  Did you drop one?
• 56:05
  Oh, okay.
• 56:06
  Was it like that or was it right?
• 56:09
  No, I think it was in the reverse.
• 56:12
  Okay, interesting.
• 56:15
  It was the two of ones.
• 56:17
  Yeah, we'll stop that one aside.
• 56:20
  Okay.
• 56:21
  I think.
• 56:22
  Oh, we got eight of cups.
• 56:27
  Okay.
• 56:28
  It's like a shiny lizard gecko thing.
• 56:32
  Wow.
• 56:33
  Yeah, we'll have to look at the little book maybe to see.
• 56:36
  What kind of little lizard?
• 56:40
  Okay.
• 56:41
  Eight of cups, our keywords are turning away, cutting losses, decline, dejection and seriousness.
• 56:52
  Walk away.
• 56:53
  Also run.
• 56:54
  Yeah.
• 56:55
  Also run.
• 56:56
  Because you said that in the episode, you're like run away.
• 57:00
  Take Kelly Kelly.
• 57:02
  Kelly.
• 57:03
  Yeah.
• 57:04
  Usain.
• 57:05
  This card often pictures a person with his or her back to us walking away.
• 57:11
  I just like thought of the parents too.
• 57:16
  Wow.
• 57:18
  Sometimes a waning moon overhead symbolizes decrease.
• 57:23
  When the eight of cups appears, a situation has become untenable and you have decided to turn
• 57:30
  your back on it.
• 57:32
  Now you must strike out in another direction.
• 57:36
  Wow.
• 57:37
  Okay.
• 57:38
  There was a lot of that in the story.
• 57:40
  Yes.
• 57:41
  Yeah.
• 57:42
  Okay.
• 57:43
  The upright interpretation says, you wish things had turned out differently, but you can't
• 57:50
  salvage a matter and you realize you must abandon it.
• 57:56
  It's time to let go and get out of the situation that has failed despite your best
• 58:02
  efforts.
• 58:03
  Oh, your best efforts.
• 58:05
  Oh, my gosh.
• 58:06
  Yeah.
• 58:07
  Let's move ahead with determination.
• 58:10
  Find a new direction and learn from your experience.
• 58:13
  Oh, boy.
• 58:14
  Okay.
• 58:15
  Well, yeah.
• 58:16
  This is giving me chills because obviously I know what happens in part two, but in a reading
• 58:22
  about money and investment hasn't paid off or you've lost money through no fault of your
• 58:27
  own except perhaps not seeing things accurately.
• 58:32
  Cut your losses and conserve your resources.
• 58:37
  If the reading is about your job, the aid of cups may recommend pouring your heart and
• 58:42
  soul into an endeavor.
• 58:44
  Don't let distractions throw you off course.
• 58:48
  Sometimes this card advises leaving a job that no longer interests you.
• 58:53
  In a reading about love, this card can mean ending a relationship that's lost its spark.
• 58:59
  Oh, boy.
• 59:01
  Conversely, it may show you getting serious about a partnership, giving it your all, all
• 59:08
  of your camo gear.
• 59:11
  You're no longer interested in casual flings and there is an extra excerpt.
• 59:19
  When you most feel like holding on to something, it is usually the best time to let go.
• 59:25
  Holy wow.
• 59:26
  That was good.
• 59:28
  I can't believe you picked this walk away sign too.
• 59:31
  It's like blowing my mind.
• 59:33
  Okay.
• 59:34
  Should I read this little one while you're looking for the other person?
• 59:38
  Yeah.
• 59:39
  Okay.
• 59:40
  So it's the Northern alligator lizard, by the way.
• 59:43
  Oh.
• 59:44
  And all of the keywords are about the same, but there's this little story here.
• 59:48
  Read the alligator lizard shed her past self like a ghost behind her.
• 59:54
  That skin had to serve her well.
• 59:57
  It gotten her through plenty of scrapes and taken quite a few in the process.
• 1:00:03
  It had camo flushed her.
• 1:00:06
  Okay.
• 1:00:08
  It had camo flushed her against the forest floor protecting her from sharp eyed hawks.
• 1:00:15
  She had insulated her as she bashed on the sun, dappled stones, but now it felt tight.
• 1:00:23
  It felt restrictive.
• 1:00:25
  She itched to be rid of it.
• 1:00:27
  She had outgrown it and so she stepped out of it, cast it aside.
• 1:00:32
  It no longer served her.
• 1:00:34
  She moved on more vulnerable to the thorns and needles around her, but no longer constrained
• 1:00:41
  by who she used to be.
• 1:00:44
  Okay.
• 1:00:45
  All right.
• 1:00:46
  That camo flushed thing made me poop my pants a little bit.
• 1:00:49
  A little bit, a little bit.
• 1:00:51
  Okay.
• 1:00:52
  Right.
• 1:00:53
  So two of ones are keywords are developing goals, involvement in a creative project, taking
• 1:01:01
  action and choices.
• 1:01:04
  This card shows you taking action to accomplish something you feel passionately about, a creative
• 1:01:10
  project, a business or an adventure.
• 1:01:13
  You may have to make a choice between two options or bring two factors together to achieve
• 1:01:20
  success.
• 1:01:24
  When the two of ones is reversed, it can indicate a delay or difficulty.
• 1:01:29
  You may be in for a surprise that requires you to make changes.
• 1:01:34
  Perhaps someone you relied on or believed in disappoints you.
• 1:01:38
  Oh, it's kind of like the same vibe a little bit.
• 1:01:41
  A little bit.
• 1:01:42
  If you asked about money, this card may mean financing for a project gets delayed or an
• 1:01:48
  investment doesn't produce a return you'd hoped for.
• 1:01:52
  Use caution in financial partnerships or contracts.
• 1:01:57
  In a reading about work, the reversed two can mean you'll have to work harder than you'd
• 1:02:03
  expected to bring your dream to fruition.
• 1:02:07
  Sometimes it indicates you've gotten off track and need to take action to control a
• 1:02:11
  situation.
• 1:02:13
  You may have to reign in a colleague or contractor or another person may not hold up his or
• 1:02:19
  her end.
• 1:02:21
  In a reading about love, this card advises being upfront and honest with your partner.
• 1:02:27
  There was so much of that in the story, like so much honesty with your partner.
• 1:02:32
  Yeah.
• 1:02:33
  Yeah.
• 1:02:34
  Yeah.
• 1:02:35
  If the relationship is rocky, you may have to make adjustments, especially if you've
• 1:02:40
  been too dependent or detached in the past.
• 1:02:46
  Yeah.
• 1:02:47
  Oh, boy.
• 1:02:48
  Oh, boy.
• 1:02:49
  Well, that was the card that jumped out in the beginning when you were shuffling.
• 1:02:54
  Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  It was just like, hey, I'd go with the other one.
• 1:02:58
  Yeah.
• 1:02:59
  That one said, there will be some more of these elements in part two.
• 1:03:04
  Oh, it's two.
• 1:03:05
  Yeah.
• 1:03:06
  Oh, boy.
• 1:03:07
  Oh, boy.
• 1:03:11
  That is a red-tailed hawk on the card, by the way.
• 1:03:14
  Oh, it's a bird of prey.
• 1:03:16
  What's this one talking about?
• 1:03:18
  Like hawks?
• 1:03:20
  I think it is.
• 1:03:21
  Something about, yeah, we should go back.
• 1:03:23
  Now I'm curious.
• 1:03:25
  Yeah, protecting her from sharp-eyed hawks.
• 1:03:27
  That is so weird.
• 1:03:28
  Are you guys surprised?
• 1:03:31
  Wow.
• 1:03:32
  Okay.
• 1:03:33
  Well, we're pretty cool.
• 1:03:34
  Okay.
• 1:03:35
  I'm like little bit.
• 1:03:38
  Oh, my gosh.
• 1:03:39
  I was thinking this the other day.
• 1:03:41
  So you know how we always would say, like, oh, we're not professional readers or anything
• 1:03:46
  yet.
• 1:03:47
  We're just learning.
• 1:03:48
  I feel like we've leveled up to maybe inner media.
• 1:03:52
  Intermediate?
• 1:03:53
  Okay.
• 1:03:54
  Terror?
• 1:03:55
  I'll take that.
• 1:03:56
  I think we have, because we've done so many readings now for people at the festivals
• 1:04:00
  and stuff.
• 1:04:01
  Yeah, that's true.
• 1:04:02
  We always just kind of say, along with the interpretation, whatever comes to our minds,
• 1:04:08
  that is terror reading.
• 1:04:10
  It really is.
• 1:04:11
  Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  We're doing it.
• 1:04:13
  We're almost professionals.
• 1:04:16
  If you loved listening to that terror reading and want to see it because obviously, duh,
• 1:04:23
  we're cute.
• 1:04:24
  Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  Become a member of our Patreon, where a video of every terror read is uploaded with the
• 1:04:31
  ad-free version of the episode each week, which is going to start feeling more significant.
• 1:04:38
  Very soon.
• 1:04:41
  Those videos typically have a lot of extras in them as well that we cut out of the regular
• 1:04:46
  episode.
• 1:04:47
  So you get to feel like you're behind the scenes a little bit.
• 1:04:50
  Lowell that.
• 1:04:53
  Patreon for those of you that maybe are wondering what the hell is that?
• 1:04:58
  Exactly.
• 1:04:59
  Please.
• 1:05:00
  It's a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits.
• 1:05:06
  Every member gets a personalized welcome card, a shout out in an upcoming episode and
• 1:05:12
  exclusive bonus episodes and a lot of other things, some of which we don't even know about
• 1:05:19
  yet.
• 1:05:20
  A lot of other things like a mini terror reading in your welcome card.
• 1:05:24
  And if you want a special shout out, if you want us to say something different other than
• 1:05:29
  your name or something, you'll have to message us directly on Patreon and let us know.
• 1:05:35
  Do it.
• 1:05:36
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• 1:05:42
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• 1:05:44
  Tell everyone and anyone you come into contact with about us.
• 1:05:48
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• 1:05:52
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• 1:05:53
  Or your barista.
• 1:05:55
  Yeah.
• 1:05:56
  Or bartender.
• 1:05:57
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• 1:06:03
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• 1:06:09
  too because that's the big one.
• 1:06:13
  That's the big boy.
• 1:06:14
  Just sprinkle those stars all around town.
• 1:06:16
  You know what I mean?
• 1:06:17
  Yes.
• 1:06:19
  If you...
• 1:06:23
  If you have any true crime paranormal or witchy stories to submit for a listener appreciation
• 1:06:28
  episodes called the creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com
• 1:06:38
  or you can also use...
• 1:06:40
  We have a handy, dandy little Google contact form you can fill out and tell us your story.
• 1:06:46
  And a link to that would be in the episode description.
• 1:06:49
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• 1:06:55
  stories do not have to be coming from the Pacific Northwest specifically if you want to share.
• 1:07:02
  If there is a story from somewhere in Europe or Asia or Africa, just naming the continents
• 1:07:09
  now.
• 1:07:10
  Or Russia?
• 1:07:13
  I'm kidding because way back in the day I was confused about Russia and Asia, okay?
• 1:07:17
  Follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards
• 1:07:25
  or beautiful alter setups which today there is a lot of fire next to me.
• 1:07:29
  There is a lot of pyro techniques.
• 1:07:31
  Yes.
• 1:07:32
  Katelyn went a little crazy.
• 1:07:34
  And she also put all the fire on her side now and it had to convince her to put one little
• 1:07:37
  candle on my side.
• 1:07:39
  No, I just thought was how I arranged it.
• 1:07:42
  It wasn't to keep the fire away from you.
• 1:07:45
  It all looks like it.
• 1:07:47
  I would think you would thank me, but whatever dude.
• 1:07:51
  And a lot of backstage shenanigans like arguing over fire.
• 1:07:57
  You can find our website or our link tree in the description of this episode to check out
• 1:08:02
  all of the fun that we have to offer.
• 1:08:05
  And if you get confused and you go to the link tree when you really wanted the website,
• 1:08:10
  you can still go to the website directly from the link tree.
• 1:08:14
  There are so many links on the link tree.
• 1:08:16
  There is links to the links.
• 1:08:19
  Have a creepy last day.
• 1:08:22
  See you next Tuesday.
• 1:08:24
  Part two, Tuesday.
• 1:08:28
  Do do do.
• 1:08:29
  [J Especially to the audience.
• 1:08:30
  That's it!]
• 1:08:31
  [A Mossab翌bub crunch]
• 1:08:32
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:34
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:39
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:41
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:44
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:47
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:49
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:52
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:55
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:57
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:08:59
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:01
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:03
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:05
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:07
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:09
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:11
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:13
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:15
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:17
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:19
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:21
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:23
  [A nice andgovic song]
• 1:09:25
  You probably already know where Birdie ambassadors.
• 1:09:28
  We wanted to take a quick moment to tell you a little bit more about this awesome product.
• 1:09:34
  Birdie is the modern personal safety alarm made for women by women.
• 1:09:38
  In a situation where you feel threatened or unsafe, you can simply activate Birdie's
• 1:09:43
  loud siren and flashing light to create a diversion!
• 1:09:47
  Birdie is perfect to carry anytime because the device is lightweight and comes in a variety
• 1:09:53
  of colors.
• 1:09:54
  So important.
• 1:09:55
  Use our Ambassador link and coupon code, PNW, Haunts and Homicides, to receive 10% off
• 1:10:02
  your purchase.
• 1:10:04
  Like our social media handles, the coupon code is all spelled out no special characters.
• 1:10:09
  You can find the link and promo code in our show notes or PNW, Haunts and Homicides link
• 1:10:14
  tree.
• 1:10:15
  Have a safe stay!
• 1:10:16
  (soft music)
• 1:10:17
  (bright music)