Latest / Pod Therapy / #350: Dating Toxic Men, Discord Drama, Friend is a Pedophile

Transcript

#350: Dating Toxic Men, Discord Drama, Friend is a Pedophile · Pod Therapy

0:00
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that's cool, little pop quarantine.
0:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was kind of a last minute little let's
0:06
Speaker 2: go to the movies. We don't go to the movies
0:08
Speaker 2: that often.
0:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't either, Nick does. Nick goes alone, but
0:12
Speaker 1: only to the porn movies.
0:14
Speaker 3: Well for obvious.
0:18
Speaker 1: Friends. I like how we start.
0:25
Speaker 2: Joe like.
0:29
Speaker 4: This episode has made possible by our therapy partners Dirty
0:32
Speaker 4: Be and Pignuts from fabulous Las Vegas, Sonata. This is
0:36
Speaker 4: pod Therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists. You
0:39
Speaker 4: can submit your questions anonymously Hot Therapy on net or email.
0:43
Speaker 4: It's a pot therapy guys at gmail dot com. And
0:45
Speaker 4: welcome to any new listeners who may just have just
0:48
Speaker 4: recently heard the show.
0:50
Speaker 1: We're tuning in for the first time.
0:51
Speaker 4: We promised to keep it real clean and now that's Jim,
0:56
Speaker 4: that's Whitney, I'm Nick. That's time for some pot there.
0:59
Speaker 5: So welcome to the first an only episode of pod Therapy.
1:02
Speaker 5: You may notice the entire back catalog has been deleted.
1:06
Speaker 1: Jacob Jim Jovin. Though would like to say a few things.
1:09
Speaker 1: God Cham, I would like to say that I'd like
1:13
Speaker 1: to actually tell the story about how I met my wife.
1:19
Speaker 1: So there we were Hollywood Boulevard. I was just walking
1:24
Speaker 1: along and all of a sudden, the best trick in
1:26
Speaker 1: town I sauntering up to me, sports card.
1:33
Speaker 3: In my army.
1:35
Speaker 5: Oh lord, So go to patron dot COM's Last Therapy.
1:39
Speaker 5: There is quite the Jim's Tale of Woe this week.
1:43
Speaker 5: I just like that, not disappoint just hinting at it.
1:46
Speaker 4: The smallest amount makes your face turn redd.
1:51
Speaker 3: Think I've seen read until.
1:54
Speaker 1: The story listeners paused him to turn beat red. My
1:58
Speaker 1: story that happened two days ago. Yes, yeah, the rest
2:04
Speaker 1: of my life. I'm pretty sure.
2:06
Speaker 4: Where's the next meeting.
2:08
Speaker 1: Don't you know what's funny? I didn't get the email
2:14
Speaker 1: he said, like, okay, I'll email you all right after
2:16
Speaker 1: this with the minutes and like when the next one
2:18
Speaker 1: that never happened? Yes, so I think that'll that'll probably
2:22
Speaker 1: be my last showing. So however, but hey, some other
2:26
Speaker 1: podcast from yeaheah, please do not return season desist some
2:31
Speaker 1: interesting pod therapy show news.
2:34
Speaker 5: So first our website podtherapy dot net, where we always
2:38
Speaker 5: direct you to submit questions anonymously. Some of the patreons
2:41
Speaker 5: noticed that the website hosts that we use which is Tumblr.
2:45
Speaker 5: They changed the setups that you actually had to like
2:47
Speaker 5: create an account to submit an anonymous question, so we
2:51
Speaker 5: fixed it.
2:51
Speaker 1: We came with a workaround.
2:52
Speaker 5: So if you go to our website now and you
2:54
Speaker 5: you just navigate through the buttons like five, I think
2:56
Speaker 5: it's like that, there's like a button that just the
2:58
Speaker 5: podcast or something like that, and drop down menu comes down.
3:01
Speaker 5: You'll find a link that says ask a question. Click
3:03
Speaker 5: on it. It will direct you to an anonymous Google form.
3:06
Speaker 5: It does not ask for your Google information, so if
3:08
Speaker 5: you're logged into Google when you answer it, I won't
3:11
Speaker 5: ever see any of that crap. It doesn't need it.
3:13
Speaker 5: So it's just completely an anonymous form. But that is
3:16
Speaker 5: our new way to drop information to the show, because
3:19
Speaker 5: we want to make sure that we create a exclusively
3:21
Speaker 5: anonymous way that we don't have to email us if
3:24
Speaker 5: you don't want to. That's always been the main way
3:26
Speaker 5: people like to submit. But again, you can always anonymously. Well,
3:29
Speaker 5: you can send a question to us through your email
3:32
Speaker 5: what's the email pod Therapy guys at gmail dot com
3:35
Speaker 5: and you can just tell us this is anonymous. We'll
3:37
Speaker 5: never read it out loud. Yeah, but you know, anyway,
3:40
Speaker 5: if you read the email out loud, not your name exactly.
3:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, so anyway, but that's honestly, whatever name you you
3:46
Speaker 1: signed the email as, that's the name that's going to
3:49
Speaker 1: get read on the air exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Well,
3:53
Speaker 1: no one, no one pays attention to what that email
3:55
Speaker 1: address is.
3:56
Speaker 4: So yeah, the email itself just gets copied and pasted
3:59
Speaker 4: into a word dot and so the emails pretty much lost.
4:03
Speaker 4: I mean, so unless we actually look at the email
4:05
Speaker 4: and the address, which we never do.
4:07
Speaker 1: Pretty much your extra steps yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, we
4:11
Speaker 1: do not do that anyway.
4:13
Speaker 4: We take the minimum amount of steps. Yeah, as evidenced
4:16
Speaker 4: by everything we do on this shop. Yeah, everybody the
4:18
Speaker 4: way the amount of steps that we take.
4:20
Speaker 1: One. Yeah, the email on.
4:24
Speaker 5: The discord, the patrons were like, hey, Jim, we're just
4:26
Speaker 5: going to build you guys a new website and then
4:29
Speaker 5: you know.
4:29
Speaker 1: Teach you how to use it. And I was like,
4:30
Speaker 1: whoa partner, stop right there? No, do we have a
4:37
Speaker 1: very specific system where you submit ship and we get
4:40
Speaker 1: an email that says you've got ship, go get it.
4:42
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things we know how to do.
4:45
Speaker 1: We need to keep it that simple, so we have
4:47
Speaker 1: kept it that simple. But also Patreon News pod Therapy
4:52
Speaker 1: has finally hit the big time. We have our first
4:55
Speaker 1: ever doctoral intern for the show. Can you fucking believe it?
5:01
Speaker 1: Because I kind of can't, but it's real.
5:04
Speaker 5: So, as you all remember, we have an official horse
5:07
Speaker 5: of the show, Tanka Truck the Pony and Tanka Truck
5:10
Speaker 5: the Pony's owner is Emma, who is a licensed therapist
5:14
Speaker 5: in Illinois and is currently in a doctoral program and
5:16
Speaker 5: her program requires that she does something for mental health
5:20
Speaker 5: as a volunteer in the world and just kind of
5:22
Speaker 5: taken into an opportunity. So she reached out to us
5:25
Speaker 5: and she was like, hey, do you need an intern.
5:27
Speaker 5: We're like, fuck yeah. So we have a licensed therapist
5:30
Speaker 5: intern and so she's going to be creating some really
5:33
Speaker 5: cool content for the Patreon and start pumping that through
5:36
Speaker 5: into the series. So she's developing all that now and
5:38
Speaker 5: we're brainstorming with her to do some really cool special content.
5:42
Speaker 5: So it's never been a better time to go to
5:44
Speaker 5: patreon dot com slash Therapy sign up because you won't
5:46
Speaker 5: have to listen to Nick and Jim's dumbasses for long.
5:49
Speaker 1: We're going to have more support in there, so.
5:51
Speaker 5: Big news, exciting developments. Pod therapy finally made it. We
5:56
Speaker 5: hit the big time, So hopefully we don't destroy her
5:59
Speaker 5: career like other therapists. Yeah, then having a therapy.
6:04
Speaker 4: I sent her an email with my coffee order and
6:06
Speaker 4: I still.
6:06
Speaker 1: I saw that coffee. Yeah.
6:08
Speaker 5: I was waiting to send mine until after she sent
6:10
Speaker 5: your not off to a great start. Yeah, I think
6:13
Speaker 5: we get to grade her, so that'll be fun and
6:16
Speaker 5: we'll do it on air.
6:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're reviewing the whole fucking thing. Oh, you do
6:20
Speaker 1: have to do the thing though at the end, right,
6:21
Speaker 1: because we had an intern evaluation early in early in
6:24
Speaker 1: ice cream social Oh that's all. That's how we met Ryer.
6:27
Speaker 1: Oh cool, wait this belt Yeah yeah he was he
6:31
Speaker 1: was our injurn the first. Yeah, we had to do
6:33
Speaker 1: a whole, a whole evaluation thing. That's right, that's right,
6:36
Speaker 1: And we're gonna be very strict on this, okay. Yeah,
6:39
Speaker 1: I mean she could produce all the great therapy content
6:41
Speaker 1: in the world. That coffee order needs to be fucking right,
6:44
Speaker 1: that's right, served hot. Yeah, so I just think about
6:47
Speaker 1: the emotional stress that can be caused by anrect coffee order. There, oh,
6:51
Speaker 1: there it is. That's damn. He's good. All right, Yeah,
6:54
Speaker 1: let's just do that. I think that we could loop
6:55
Speaker 1: that around. Oh yeah, tell the professors like, look, she
6:58
Speaker 1: is terrible, Yeah, just awful. Okay.
7:08
Speaker 6: I have so many things that are unfiled. My socks
7:13
Speaker 6: are all mismatched for hundryes undone. Nothing's been cooked, sir,
7:18
Speaker 6: None of that's on the lrics.
7:20
Speaker 1: My wife is waiting for someone to sexually satisfy and
7:23
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be me for the ship things to do.
7:30
Speaker 5: I have a podcast, all right, we got some great
7:33
Speaker 5: questions for today's show. The first one in the lineup
7:35
Speaker 5: is dating toxic dudes high pod therapy thing.
7:42
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, high pod therapy people. I find myself attracted.
7:45
Speaker 5: To men who are a bit cold and disrespectful to me,
7:49
Speaker 5: and it's impairing my ability to hold healthy relationships. To
7:53
Speaker 5: be clear, the type of guy I'm speaking about is
7:56
Speaker 5: someone that I can have a loving relationship with, but
7:59
Speaker 5: they have a bad side to them, hence the coldness
8:02
Speaker 5: and disrespect. An example of this might be something like
8:05
Speaker 5: my boyfriend gifting his ex girlfriend a brand new iPad
8:09
Speaker 5: for Christmas and then gifting me a shot glass out
8:12
Speaker 5: of pity.
8:13
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, what this sounds really specific? I think
8:16
Speaker 1: this is definitely a metaphorical example because that's also what
8:20
Speaker 1: happened on this show. Yeah, and anyway, do you have
8:23
Speaker 1: any insight on they're giving me an example that I
8:26
Speaker 1: would understand? I get it. So you have dick head
8:29
Speaker 1: friends too, got it?
8:30
Speaker 5: Do you have any insight on how I can minimize
8:32
Speaker 5: my attraction to this kind of behavior slash person, and
8:36
Speaker 5: how can I maximize my attraction to more kind and
8:40
Speaker 5: respectful humans? For reference, I'm a female in my early twenties.
8:44
Speaker 5: Thanks in advance, anonymous.
8:47
Speaker 2: Ooh, the first thought I had was kind of attachment styles.
8:52
Speaker 2: That's where my brain went, oh, yeah, yeah, but that's
8:55
Speaker 2: kind of digging around deep maybe Yeah. I love I
9:00
Speaker 2: love the awareness. Let me just throw that out there first.
9:04
Speaker 2: I love love, love the awareness, because that really is
9:06
Speaker 2: the first step. As cliche as that sounds, you're noticing, Hey,
9:11
Speaker 2: we have some really great moments, but there's some really
9:14
Speaker 2: not great moments too, and it's you're even labeling it
9:18
Speaker 2: as bad, like a bad side to that, right, So
9:22
Speaker 2: I guess I have a lot of questions too. It's
9:24
Speaker 2: sort of condensed, so part of me is like, how
9:26
Speaker 2: long are we staying with these partners? Is there anything
9:29
Speaker 2: that changes once you notice this? Or are they the
9:31
Speaker 2: ones that are ending? Things like that would.
9:34
Speaker 3: Help maybe with the type of advice I would give.
9:38
Speaker 1: Why are girls attracted to bad we want to fix them?
9:41
Speaker 3: Is that it is a halfway Joka?
9:48
Speaker 1: What is the deal?
9:50
Speaker 2: No, I do think part of it is like I'm
9:53
Speaker 2: just yeah, thinking back to clients and whatnot. And I
9:56
Speaker 2: do think part of it is.
10:00
Speaker 4: A friend.
10:01
Speaker 3: They're not thirty.
10:03
Speaker 1: Live in Canada, so anyway, my friend Brittany tell us
10:14
Speaker 1: about your friend Brittany and her bad boy face.
10:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was definitely very attractive to bad boy.
10:20
Speaker 1: At the Christian college, the boys who like didn't close
10:23
Speaker 1: their Bible before.
10:24
Speaker 4: They left her boyfriend spreader.
10:32
Speaker 1: Deep Yeah, go on, Oh my god. So fixing dudes
10:37
Speaker 1: is part of it.
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Speaker 5: Somebody told me once that it also can be like
10:41
Speaker 5: if a if a guy seems like he can afford
10:44
Speaker 5: the luxury of being disinterested or mean that it might
10:47
Speaker 5: accidentally communicate a sense of value.
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Speaker 1: Like when you meet a really rich pretentious person, you're like,
10:52
Speaker 1: either this person's really fucking rich or just an asshole.
10:56
Speaker 1: But I need to wait around and figure it out
10:57
Speaker 1: because they have like a power thing going on. It's
11:00
Speaker 1: like you're kind of a dick. Can you afford to
11:02
Speaker 1: be a supernick? Like what's going on? Is that part
11:04
Speaker 1: of it? Like they're almost is like a sense of
11:06
Speaker 1: value I.
11:08
Speaker 3: Think is that chase I would call it a chase.
11:10
Speaker 1: I think it triggers the chase, the chase g.
11:14
Speaker 2: And more than like, oh they can afford to ignore me,
11:17
Speaker 2: I think more so it's that, oh, can I get
11:20
Speaker 2: them to like me even if when they do? Again
11:23
Speaker 2: speaking for my friends and Brittany and Canada, Brittany Mercedes, Yeah,
11:33
Speaker 2: I think a little bit of that is that challenge,
11:35
Speaker 2: like can I get this person to feel attracted to me?
11:38
Speaker 2: And then that will like increase how I feel about myself.
11:41
Speaker 5: So it's kind of win them yeah yeah, which makes
11:44
Speaker 5: sense right because then the opposite of that is like
11:45
Speaker 5: the super nice guy who's like super clearly affirming and
11:49
Speaker 5: flattering and complimentary right out of the gate, and it's
11:51
Speaker 5: sort of like, oh, I'm not even taking.
11:54
Speaker 1: You seriously, right, it's too easy? Yeah, women, bitches, Nick,
11:57
Speaker 1: this is terrible. A lot of things are clicking for
11:59
Speaker 1: me right now, just all of high school makes sense, like, gosh,
12:03
Speaker 1: I should have been mean. It's it's cute when Jim
12:07
Speaker 1: thinks it's somebody else's fault that they would get laid.
12:10
Speaker 3: You can use that. That's fine.
12:14
Speaker 2: No, it's hard to watch that trope now play out
12:17
Speaker 2: in movies or TV shows where it's like, oh, I'm
12:18
Speaker 2: the nice guy and the girl doesn't like me, and
12:21
Speaker 2: the reality is that maybe there's just some youth involved
12:25
Speaker 2: there that you're trying to figure that out, like, oh,
12:28
Speaker 2: what what do relationship dynamics look like? If I do
12:31
Speaker 2: chase after this person? Are they gonna am I gonna.
12:34
Speaker 3: Get like validated for that right?
12:37
Speaker 2: And if you don't, I feel like then you're like,
12:39
Speaker 2: all right, well fuck that, I'm gonna go be with
12:41
Speaker 2: a nice guy who actually appreciates me or whatever.
12:43
Speaker 1: So you've definitely had patients over.
12:45
Speaker 3: The years, yeah, young Canadian patients.
12:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they've come to you and said, oh, you know,
12:50
Speaker 1: I keep dating toxic guys and there's like they're reading
12:53
Speaker 1: things online like I need to know my worth or
12:54
Speaker 1: and you true myself better. And then it's tough as
12:56
Speaker 1: a therapist because we can't just agree with that and
12:58
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, you're right, break up with them. Here's
12:59
Speaker 1: how do better? Like we have to kind of help
13:02
Speaker 1: them get to a place where they're ready to make
13:04
Speaker 1: that choice.
13:04
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, thinking of a specific person, yeah, Brittany. Now
13:11
Speaker 2: what comes to mind is like almost the value they
13:14
Speaker 2: feel is from helping Look, I'm helping this person be
13:19
Speaker 2: better or I'm helping them. I see that a lot
13:21
Speaker 2: with young women, and that is really tough as an
13:25
Speaker 2: older woman myself. I know, right, you think back and
13:30
Speaker 2: you're like, no, don't do it, but you can't tell
13:33
Speaker 2: them that.
13:33
Speaker 3: You can't say don't do this.
13:34
Speaker 2: And just like the writer is asking, like why do
13:37
Speaker 2: I how do I not feel attracted to that type
13:40
Speaker 2: of person? Which is hard because really we're kind of
13:44
Speaker 2: attracted to who we're attracted to for a hot minute,
13:46
Speaker 2: like that initial reaction, that initial connection is there.
13:51
Speaker 3: You can't really help that always.
13:52
Speaker 4: So this was going to be my follow up question
13:55
Speaker 4: to the two of you, because I don't really deal
13:58
Speaker 4: with this.
13:59
Speaker 1: But not attracted to bad boys, Oh, everybody's attracted. I
14:03
Speaker 1: mean I'm attracted bad boys, bad boys. That's just that's
14:07
Speaker 1: my tight I was gonna go back a podcast two assholes?
14:11
Speaker 1: What I get? He just threw it at me. But
14:14
Speaker 1: if he was like, yeah cleaning, yeah, I probably.
14:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, hit me right in the I mean, from Jim's perspective,
14:22
Speaker 4: that's Jim's whole goals. I can make Jacob like me.
14:25
Speaker 1: I'm almost there. It's a chase. We hung out, hung
14:29
Speaker 1: out outside of the show without you, watched the football
14:31
Speaker 1: game together. I'm working on him. We're getting half a
14:34
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. You're pretty drunk, all right. Also,
14:37
Speaker 1: I just showed up at a bar that you were
14:38
Speaker 1: already we said, like you were happy with what happened.
14:45
Speaker 1: It was fine game right, It's a couple of years back.
14:50
Speaker 1: We planned to go somewhere and meet together outside. That's true,
14:54
Speaker 1: we did do that.
14:56
Speaker 3: It works.
14:57
Speaker 4: It was obviously very meaningful to the JA. That didn't
15:00
Speaker 4: mean anything to Jacob. Is what I'm learning.
15:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, the life advice writer is never give up.
15:05
Speaker 5: Eventually you win them over if you're finally good enough.
15:09
Speaker 4: My question was was like, in a situation like this,
15:11
Speaker 4: if you're working with if this writer was a client
15:15
Speaker 4: of yours, what do you You can't change what someone's
15:19
Speaker 4: attracted to, right, Like, what is the goal here in
15:23
Speaker 4: therapy for this individual?
15:25
Speaker 2: Well, that's where I kind of I mentioned earlier that
15:28
Speaker 2: I wish there was a little more information because I
15:31
Speaker 2: would want to dig in to gather more info on
15:36
Speaker 2: when are you noticing that? How far are these relationships going,
15:40
Speaker 2: who's ending?
15:41
Speaker 3: What like?
15:41
Speaker 2: There's just a lot more surrounding that, I guess if
15:45
Speaker 2: you're just asking how to, not.
15:48
Speaker 4: How to?
15:49
Speaker 2: Would you say, how can I maximize my attraction from
15:51
Speaker 2: our kind and respectful humans? I mean, the first stuff
15:55
Speaker 2: I would say is noticing that once you notice that
15:57
Speaker 2: person is not a kind or respectful human, then you
16:01
Speaker 2: need to change something so that can be getting space
16:04
Speaker 2: from that person. You can ask yourself what do I
16:08
Speaker 2: not like and what.
16:09
Speaker 3: Do I like?
16:10
Speaker 2: And the positive side of that is what are the
16:13
Speaker 2: qualities I do want in a person? And you're kind
16:15
Speaker 2: of suessing that out earlier on.
16:18
Speaker 5: Which I actually do think happens, and I think it
16:20
Speaker 5: happens organically, and I think it happens over time. So
16:22
Speaker 5: like one thing I've noticed, I'm sure you guys could.
16:24
Speaker 1: Relate to this.
16:25
Speaker 5: You also develop a taste for certain kinds of people
16:28
Speaker 5: based on past bad qualities you've experienced in you're dating,
16:33
Speaker 5: and now you have an aversion to that whereas you know,
16:35
Speaker 5: there was a time when you thought this trait was hotter,
16:37
Speaker 5: this trait was attractive. Then you got in a relationship
16:39
Speaker 5: with somebody in that trait fucking drove you into the ground.
16:42
Speaker 1: You hated that.
16:43
Speaker 5: And now whenever you're finally away from that person that
16:46
Speaker 5: kind of trait, when you're out back on the market,
16:47
Speaker 5: you're looking around, you're turned off by that trait. Now
16:50
Speaker 5: when you see it in other people, you're like, Nope,
16:52
Speaker 5: you remind me of my ex. That does not work
16:54
Speaker 5: for me. So I do think right that there is
16:56
Speaker 5: a natural sort of change that does take place where
17:01
Speaker 5: you do start to feel like, you know what that
17:03
Speaker 5: I do not like the way this makes me feel.
17:05
Speaker 5: Long term, I'm not into that anymore. I'm looking for
17:08
Speaker 5: people that are different than that. I think that does happen.
17:11
Speaker 5: But as far as like why this happens or what's
17:13
Speaker 5: the treatment plan coming come back to next question. I
17:15
Speaker 5: don't know that I'm trying to change what a person's into.
17:18
Speaker 5: I don't even know that that's possible from a therapy standpoint.
17:21
Speaker 5: I think that only happens through life. But I would
17:24
Speaker 5: like to expedite their awareness by getting into sort of
17:27
Speaker 5: their their history, doing a trauma timeline, getting deep into
17:31
Speaker 5: their relationship history, talking also about prototype relationships. So like
17:36
Speaker 5: a lot of times, there's the old trope, right that
17:40
Speaker 5: girls with daddy issues end updating these terrible dudes, right,
17:42
Speaker 5: And it's like, why do you do that? Like, and
17:44
Speaker 5: it's like, you clearly hated your father, he was a
17:46
Speaker 5: bad guy or he wasn't around. Why do you put
17:48
Speaker 5: up with this kind of bullshit with these other guys?
17:49
Speaker 5: Why don't you look for a better guy? And I've
17:52
Speaker 5: heard some really good hypotheses for that, and one of
17:54
Speaker 5: the strongest candidates is the argument of familiarity.
17:57
Speaker 1: It isn't that I like it, It's that it's what
17:59
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, I grew up in this. I'm aware
18:02
Speaker 1: of this.
18:02
Speaker 3: So it feels kind of good because there's something about.
18:05
Speaker 1: Then if you don't like it, that's right.
18:07
Speaker 5: I can tell you everything wrong with this scenario or
18:09
Speaker 5: this kind of person. But when this kind of guy
18:11
Speaker 5: approaches me, I get him. I understand his vibe, I
18:14
Speaker 5: understand how he thinks. I understand you know, what he's
18:17
Speaker 5: all about, his little mannerisms, little behaviors, and I know
18:20
Speaker 5: how to fit inside of that matrix. And so it's
18:22
Speaker 5: familiar and yes, I probably learned that from my family
18:24
Speaker 5: of origin or early life experiences. Right, So I would
18:28
Speaker 5: be sitting down with writer therapeutically trying to attack from
18:31
Speaker 5: that angle of like developing a deeper sense of awareness
18:34
Speaker 5: so that when people get that insight and that awareness,
18:38
Speaker 5: they start to have control over it. It's a lot
18:41
Speaker 5: similar to like addictions work, when we start making people
18:43
Speaker 5: aware of like their triggers and the emotions behind the thing,
18:47
Speaker 5: because they're just driven by the emotion, they're driven by
18:49
Speaker 5: the craving. They don't even notice that that's happening. It's
18:51
Speaker 5: a pair of glasses they see the world through. They're
18:53
Speaker 5: not aware they're wearing them. And a big part of
18:55
Speaker 5: addictions work is trying to help them get the glasses
18:58
Speaker 5: off long enough to look at them that way. Whenever
19:00
Speaker 5: they notice the world through them again, they start to
19:02
Speaker 5: distrust that perspective and realize that's not how you really
19:06
Speaker 5: need to be. You can choose a different life, that's
19:09
Speaker 5: one thing. And if you wait or if you work
19:12
Speaker 5: around that, you can get around this challenge, like you
19:14
Speaker 5: can get around that craving.
19:15
Speaker 2: Like feeling out of control about a situation then you realize, oh,
19:18
Speaker 2: I could have some control.
19:19
Speaker 1: Here, right, there's a way that I can still find
19:22
Speaker 1: other options and alternatives to my normal thing.
19:25
Speaker 3: Do you ever hear this.
19:26
Speaker 2: I've heard this a couple times over the years, that
19:30
Speaker 2: those relationships sound boring.
19:33
Speaker 5: Right, Oh, I've absolutely heard that. I have heard that
19:37
Speaker 5: from men and women. I've heard men who will I've
19:40
Speaker 5: worked with some men for years and seen them through
19:42
Speaker 5: several relationships, and they've been through some really chaotic ones,
19:45
Speaker 5: and they're in one that's very stable and really good,
19:49
Speaker 5: and then I'll notice they're sabotaging it. Yeah, and I'll
19:51
Speaker 5: talk about it and I'll say, you know, Bob, why
19:53
Speaker 5: are you It seems like you're unhappy. But I've been
19:56
Speaker 5: with you in the past, and everything you've complained about
19:58
Speaker 5: in the past is remedied in this person. What what's
20:01
Speaker 5: going on? And that when they've thought about it, they've
20:03
Speaker 5: said those exact words. Is you know, Jim, it's so weird.
20:05
Speaker 5: But I am bored. But I was so sad when
20:09
Speaker 5: I was in chaos, Like I don't want to be
20:10
Speaker 5: sad or angry.
20:11
Speaker 4: I'm a firefighter. There's no fire for me to put out.
20:14
Speaker 5: What am I doing sitting here collecting unemployment. So Jacob,
20:17
Speaker 5: you're a registered bad boy?
20:19
Speaker 3: What it's the long hair?
20:22
Speaker 1: Is that? Well? We just yeah, literally last episode, so
20:24
Speaker 1: he wrote in saying, how do I stop Jacob from
20:26
Speaker 1: stealing my wife?
20:27
Speaker 2: How many theater degree?
20:34
Speaker 1: Just a little bit?
20:35
Speaker 5: Who's that guy that was in Parks and Red, the
20:39
Speaker 5: guy who plays Ron in Parks and rec he was
20:41
Speaker 5: talking about Yeah, yeah, he's talking about how he drank
20:44
Speaker 5: moonshine like a certain way by flicking it over his
20:46
Speaker 5: wrist and the director was like, how do you know
20:48
Speaker 5: how to do that? And he's like, that's how you
20:50
Speaker 5: drink moonshine. And they're like, oh man, you must be
20:52
Speaker 5: like really tough. He's like, yeah, I'm the toughest guy that.
20:54
Speaker 1: Went to Juilliard exactly sliding scale.
21:02
Speaker 3: Drank moonshine at Julia.
21:04
Speaker 5: So you've seen this, You've seen the bad boy fixation.
21:08
Speaker 5: I guess sure, and people just get stuck on it.
21:11
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think people make bad
21:13
Speaker 1: decisions for a lot of different reasons.
21:16
Speaker 4: Uh.
21:16
Speaker 1: I would say for the writer, if you if you
21:19
Speaker 1: want to, you can either date people that you're instantly
21:23
Speaker 1: attracted to, or you can kind of finesse things and
21:26
Speaker 1: work to find someone who you like for a relationship.
21:30
Speaker 1: Like I mean, you can just do that. You can
21:33
Speaker 1: be purposeful and searching for for someone who you you're
21:37
Speaker 1: really interested in being in a relationship with that maybe
21:40
Speaker 1: like you wouldn't necessarily go after instantly if you saw
21:43
Speaker 1: them across the room at a bar, right.
21:45
Speaker 2: I Usually the advice to piggyback off that that I'll
21:48
Speaker 2: give is find someone you can be friends with that
21:50
Speaker 2: you just enjoy spending time with, and especially working with
21:54
Speaker 2: teens you know before or now young adults, it's really
21:58
Speaker 2: good go to because that may feel kind of quote
22:00
Speaker 2: boring or oh, look, we're just hanging out or whatever,
22:03
Speaker 2: but it's like that's where the most valuable parts of
22:06
Speaker 2: intimacy come from, is that connection, in my opinion.
22:09
Speaker 4: So it also kind of seems like what we're saying
22:11
Speaker 4: here too is like through improved awareness along with the
22:16
Speaker 4: fact that you're in your early twenties, that this is
22:20
Speaker 4: kind of going to start to work itself out in
22:22
Speaker 4: a sense.
22:22
Speaker 5: I think a lot of people from life experience with
22:25
Speaker 5: improved awareness.
22:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would say I would say, just like
22:28
Speaker 1: focus on that self awareness and focus on focus on
22:32
Speaker 1: what you're doing. If you want to live in the moment,
22:35
Speaker 1: live in the momentah, but be aware of it as well. Yeah,
22:40
Speaker 1: kind of note things.
22:41
Speaker 4: I kind of used to have similar conversations, kind of
22:44
Speaker 4: throwing it back to addiction, not in romantic relationships, but
22:48
Speaker 4: in just meeting new people, you know, because it's so crazy,
22:52
Speaker 4: because if you take two people who suffer from addiction
22:58
Speaker 4: and you put them in an auditorium with five thousand people,
23:02
Speaker 4: those two are find each other like ten minutes, they'll
23:05
Speaker 4: find each other.
23:06
Speaker 1: Damn. There's just some.
23:07
Speaker 4: Sort of natural attraction. And so I always just to
23:10
Speaker 4: tell people too, you know, like in early recovery, like
23:13
Speaker 4: you know, if there's something about somebody at a meeting,
23:16
Speaker 4: or you see somebody and you're like, oh, I kind
23:18
Speaker 4: of click with this person, right, just be aware of
23:21
Speaker 4: that and just kind of like, you know, if you
23:23
Speaker 4: see somebody else like oh, yeah, I don't really have
23:25
Speaker 4: anything else, I don't have anything in common with this
23:28
Speaker 4: person to be able to be like, oh maybe I
23:30
Speaker 4: should spend a little time, Maybe I should get to
23:32
Speaker 4: know this person, right, you know, and just to kind
23:35
Speaker 4: of be aware of that.
23:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, I like that advice I'm really proud of us,
23:38
Speaker 5: because as I was reading this, I definitely thought the
23:41
Speaker 5: move was that all three.
23:42
Speaker 1: Dudes were just going to start being mean to the
23:44
Speaker 1: writer to see what happens. I want to do it
23:48
Speaker 1: over again. It's a really dumb question. I feel like
23:53
Speaker 1: we did this. Your writing is very poor. Yeah, I don't.
23:56
Speaker 1: I don't approve of any of it, and then jump
23:58
Speaker 1: on my Harley and just do a wheeling.
24:02
Speaker 5: Anyway, good luck with this one writer. It is a
24:04
Speaker 5: common reality. A lot of people are like this. But
24:07
Speaker 5: I agree with the suggestions that you have to audition
24:10
Speaker 5: the change that you want to see in your life,
24:12
Speaker 5: right like and coming back to other bad habits that
24:14
Speaker 5: you know, people realize they struggle with and they need
24:16
Speaker 5: to break. They start trying to explore the alternatives to that,
24:20
Speaker 5: and it's tough at first, you know, and they do
24:21
Speaker 5: have to take some time with it and refamiliarize themselves
24:24
Speaker 5: with things that they're not naturally you know, used to
24:28
Speaker 5: meeting nice partners who do not belittle you, who are
24:31
Speaker 5: not unkind to you, who are not.
24:33
Speaker 1: Toxic at you. That is probably going to feel strange
24:36
Speaker 1: and unfamiliar in the beginning, So you know, it's okay
24:40
Speaker 1: for you to take some time on that and try
24:42
Speaker 1: to just work that. And yeah, let it be strange,
24:45
Speaker 1: let it be awkward, let it be disquieting. But maybe
24:47
Speaker 1: over time that'll start to become something you're more comfortable with.
24:51
Speaker 1: And so you're saying, maybe fake it till you make it.
24:57
Speaker 1: The answer geez any, when does it not work?
25:03
Speaker 3: It always works at the end of everything.
25:05
Speaker 1: Yes, until you make it. Where's the T shirt on that?
25:08
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get that. I gotta publish a book. Yeah,
25:10
Speaker 1: that's the shortest book edge Just a fortune cookie. Yeah, yeah,
25:13
Speaker 1: just a thirty dollars fortune cookie. It's a lot of
25:15
Speaker 1: like pages, but one of them in the middle just says,
25:17
Speaker 1: take it till you make it. Oil painting of him
25:21
Speaker 1: on the back.
25:22
Speaker 5: All Right, we're gonna take a quick break and when
25:24
Speaker 5: we come back, we're talking about minecraft drama. You're listening
25:28
Speaker 5: to pup Therapy.
25:30
Speaker 4: Today's episode is made Possible by Jake Schneider, Judy Schneider,
25:33
Speaker 4: Leon Kasab, Carolyn Albert, Jamie Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Helm,
25:37
Speaker 4: Darren Cunningham, Matt and Lisa Tanjamin. And if you would
25:41
Speaker 4: like to sponsor the show, become a therapy Patreon dot
25:43
Speaker 4: com flash therapy. All right, here we go. According to
25:50
Speaker 4: Carl Jung's theory of personal.
25:52
Speaker 1: So are we still doing this?
25:54
Speaker 4: What is the collective unconscious? Carl Jung's theory of personality?
25:59
Speaker 4: What is the collective unconscious? And what do you want
26:02
Speaker 4: to take a shot in.
26:03
Speaker 1: The dark for a room filled with unconscious people?
26:11
Speaker 4: It is the shared unconscious experience of a cultural group,
26:16
Speaker 4: the personal unconscious mind developed through individual experiences, the part
26:22
Speaker 4: of the unconscious mind shared by all humans containing archetypes
26:28
Speaker 4: or d the unconscious memories from childhood.
26:32
Speaker 1: Fuck dude, fuck fuck me.
26:37
Speaker 4: Those sounds right, The shared unconscious experience of a cultural group.
26:40
Speaker 4: That's the one I would probably have eliminated. But then
26:43
Speaker 4: B sounded good. C sounded good.
26:46
Speaker 1: I'm see the let's see the archetypes.
26:51
Speaker 3: What was B again?
26:53
Speaker 4: B is the personal unconscious mind developed through individual experiences.
26:58
Speaker 3: Jesus dude, I'm going to see ye.
27:02
Speaker 5: The archetype thing is the one thing I know really
27:04
Speaker 5: about young and.
27:05
Speaker 3: Jacob picked us, So I have to take Jacob well.
27:07
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter because he's dunks on.
27:09
Speaker 7: Us when it doesn't matter, And I'm going to see uh,
27:13
Speaker 7: it is Jesus.
27:17
Speaker 1: Comes in first, and I have waited this calling again.
27:23
Speaker 4: We see no difference between the professionals.
27:26
Speaker 3: And about uswer Jacob and the problem. Jacob's getting them right.
27:36
Speaker 1: We didn't even know we're going to keep doing these today.
27:38
Speaker 1: I wish I really would like anything else.
27:41
Speaker 2: He's just sending questions about like studious.
27:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, send them in, send them some audio questions.
27:50
Speaker 3: I want to know how bad we would.
27:52
Speaker 1: Would get smoked? Yeah, I wouldn't know what any of
27:54
Speaker 1: that shi it is? What?
27:57
Speaker 4: Okay, here we go and you I don't.
27:59
Speaker 1: Need that to happen though I'm already winning this way.
28:03
Speaker 1: Is nothing left to prove? I know, I know technology
28:08
Speaker 1: that you write some golf trivia and watching Dunk on
28:11
Speaker 1: Nick in.
28:13
Speaker 4: Your loam's therapeutic factors of group therapy? What does installation
28:18
Speaker 4: of hope refer to?
28:19
Speaker 3: Instilling hope?
28:24
Speaker 1: That is? What is it?
28:28
Speaker 4: The group's collective belief and positive outcomes for each member,
28:33
Speaker 4: the UH providing practical solutions to members problems, the leader's
28:38
Speaker 4: optimism about group progress, members sharing inspirational stories.
28:46
Speaker 1: Jacob go and b that was the what was the
28:50
Speaker 1: I'm not happy about it.
28:51
Speaker 4: I'm going to be h B was providing practical solutions
28:54
Speaker 4: to members.
28:56
Speaker 1: Don't like installation of hope never mind, I don't like
28:59
Speaker 1: be anymore. Give me, give me the options again.
29:01
Speaker 4: The group's collective belief and positive outcomes for each member,
29:06
Speaker 4: providing practical solutions to members problems. The leader's optimism about
29:11
Speaker 4: group progress, or members sharing inspirational stories.
29:15
Speaker 3: My god, this is hard those answers.
29:21
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm not throwing Look, I was gonna go A,
29:24
Speaker 5: and I'm still going A.
29:25
Speaker 1: But I just want it to be on the record.
29:27
Speaker 1: I'm not just copying Jacob. I am trying. I am
29:30
Speaker 1: picking what I actually think is right. You writing your
29:33
Speaker 1: answer down, I'm gonna start texting it to Nick.
29:38
Speaker 4: Was again, B was providing practical solutions to members problems.
29:42
Speaker 1: I misunderstood the B the first time I heard it.
29:45
Speaker 3: I feel bad.
29:47
Speaker 4: Was the leader's optimism about progress.
29:51
Speaker 5: See the leader's optimists a.
29:56
Speaker 1: Copy smartest in class, just sit behind him. I went on,
30:05
Speaker 1: you did that to.
30:05
Speaker 3: Yourself, myself trying to be different.
30:09
Speaker 1: Cold stop it. Enjoying it as much too. After a while,
30:12
Speaker 1: three fucking shows, still doing this. Stop.
30:16
Speaker 4: If I were to tell Jacob sixteen and oh, if
30:18
Speaker 4: I were to tell Jacob that I'm going to start
30:20
Speaker 4: a spinoff podcast that is just answering these questions. I'm
30:24
Speaker 4: pretty sure he's in all right. Last one, and.
30:28
Speaker 1: I think I missed one last week, didn't I. I
30:30
Speaker 1: think in all of history, you have missed one.
30:33
Speaker 4: The one that I missing in Carl which when he
30:36
Speaker 4: just missed one? A is one point that out in
30:38
Speaker 4: Carl Jung's theory of personality? What is the anima in animas?
30:44
Speaker 1: Oh, here we go. That's the thing you put up
30:45
Speaker 1: the button? There it is? That is the answer.
30:48
Speaker 4: The collective unconscious and personal unconscious, the shadow self and persona,
30:55
Speaker 4: the feminine inner personality in men and the masculine and
31:00
Speaker 4: inner personality in women, or the conscious and unconscious mind.
31:06
Speaker 3: You repeat it all twice, isn't fair.
31:15
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to remember what I know about young
31:17
Speaker 4: philosophy and Carl Jung's theory of personality. What is the
31:21
Speaker 4: anima and animus? So two different things?
31:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, anima and defining two different terms? Okay?
31:34
Speaker 4: Are the collective unconscious and the personal unconscious, the shadow
31:41
Speaker 4: self and the persona, the feminine inner personality in men
31:47
Speaker 4: and the masculine inner personality in women, or the conscious
31:52
Speaker 4: and unconscious mind. Hey damn it, Okay, Jacob saying a.
31:57
Speaker 1: B take the men and women one. See see it's
32:02
Speaker 1: see as long as Jacob doesn't win, Team Therapist takes one.
32:19
Speaker 4: I'll be honest, I'm definitely on team Therapist.
32:22
Speaker 1: Really embarrassing. If you were really on team Therapist, you
32:26
Speaker 1: could throw this trivia away when I get one and
32:30
Speaker 1: he doesn't.
32:31
Speaker 4: It is rare.
32:33
Speaker 1: Most of the time, that is not what's happening. It
32:36
Speaker 1: would be great if you would just get some new
32:38
Speaker 1: fucking trivia.
32:40
Speaker 4: We have an intern for that.
32:41
Speaker 1: That's oh yeah, that's a.
32:43
Speaker 4: Great Actually, it was our intern who sent us, and
32:47
Speaker 4: she sent us the Olympics ones and the horse ones.
32:50
Speaker 4: Like it's just kind of been doing this all along.
32:52
Speaker 1: Well, at least we're putting her to work Minecraft drama.
32:56
Speaker 1: By the way, that's a dumb that's a dumb definition
32:58
Speaker 1: of those Anama and anime us Like those two words
33:01
Speaker 1: should have more to do with each other than just
33:03
Speaker 1: like inner personality and outer and like outer facing personality. Yeah, yeah,
33:08
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're bitchy Anima though, saying that so.
33:12
Speaker 4: Wasn't the computer thing and the assassin's creed?
33:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think games. Yeah, I think so. I think
33:18
Speaker 1: Animus Prime was also a robot. I was playing a
33:24
Speaker 1: video game because you're YEAHO rolling on that scooter.
33:35
Speaker 5: Baddest bully in art school, high Pod Therapy Friends. I
33:40
Speaker 5: run a server of eighteen plus Minecraft players. We have
33:44
Speaker 5: an active Discord community where people interact and in game
33:47
Speaker 5: chat on the Minecraft server. The people who run the
33:49
Speaker 5: server and I are all volunteers who just want to
33:52
Speaker 5: make a community where we can have fun together with
33:54
Speaker 5: our friends. I've been doing this for over three years,
33:57
Speaker 5: and I really enjoy trying to make my community happy
34:00
Speaker 5: and stable place for people to play. Our biggest problem
34:03
Speaker 5: is that we always seem to have these events where
34:05
Speaker 5: someone gets their feelings hurt or they don't enjoy playing
34:08
Speaker 5: with a specific person. Often, the person who is having
34:12
Speaker 5: a problem will call for the people involved to be
34:15
Speaker 5: removed from the group or banned temporarily as punishment.
34:19
Speaker 1: They're rarely willing to.
34:20
Speaker 5: Accept anything less as a punishment, and this just feels
34:24
Speaker 5: wrong to me when I refuse to ban people. These
34:28
Speaker 5: incidents tend to end with the person who is upset
34:32
Speaker 5: taking their group of friends with them off the server.
34:35
Speaker 5: It sucks to see friends leave although we can recover
34:39
Speaker 5: again by finding new friends who want to play, and
34:41
Speaker 5: I would really like to find a way to stop
34:43
Speaker 5: this from happening. The way our discipline is set up
34:45
Speaker 5: on the server is first we make sure someone broke
34:49
Speaker 5: the rule in the first place. Then we talk to
34:51
Speaker 5: the person involved on both sides to get an idea
34:54
Speaker 5: of what happened. We share what that information to a
34:57
Speaker 5: channel where staff can see and talk about it off
35:00
Speaker 5: signs of points value of zero to three on how
35:03
Speaker 5: bad that thing that happened was. Someone built a machine
35:06
Speaker 5: in game that hurts the server would get a talking
35:09
Speaker 5: to and a zero. But if we had to talk
35:11
Speaker 5: to them about the same thing a week later, it's
35:13
Speaker 5: a one. Someone said obvious racist things to another member
35:16
Speaker 5: with intent to hurt as a three. A three gets
35:19
Speaker 5: kicked out of the server. The vast majority of my
35:22
Speaker 5: and the Minecraft community in general, has EIGHTHD or autism.
35:26
Speaker 5: I ran into so many friends on the server who
35:29
Speaker 5: have ADHD like me diagnosed that I asked one day,
35:33
Speaker 5: and the majority of the community claim to either have
35:35
Speaker 5: ADHD or autism or both.
35:37
Speaker 1: I've been told that before. I didn't know how true
35:40
Speaker 1: that was, how true that fact does it seems anecdotally true.
35:43
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know it's strangers on the internet, and I
35:45
Speaker 5: know that social media has been leading to more people
35:48
Speaker 5: to say that they have AHD. But this was still
35:51
Speaker 5: enough players for me to think more carefully about how
35:54
Speaker 5: I communicate with them. I try to be more clear
35:56
Speaker 5: with my language. A lot of the time I find
35:58
Speaker 5: myself being misunderstood, and I'll need to say what I
36:01
Speaker 5: meant to say again, but in a different way. There's
36:04
Speaker 5: a wide range of ages on the server. I'm one
36:07
Speaker 5: of the older ones at forty two, but the staff
36:09
Speaker 5: has a variety of ages. The staff member who co
36:12
Speaker 5: owns the server with me is twenty two. We get
36:14
Speaker 5: along great and make a great team. A lot of
36:16
Speaker 5: the players we have problems with have been players who
36:19
Speaker 5: are on the more immature end of the elders. Both
36:22
Speaker 5: groups can get cranky or mean at times, or say
36:25
Speaker 5: something inappropriate. The last category is one or more is
36:28
Speaker 5: one of the more controversial categories, and bring it up
36:31
Speaker 5: because it has happened multiple times. A few players have
36:34
Speaker 5: had something happen and they say that it triggered a
36:37
Speaker 5: trauma for them. That person then shuts down any discussion
36:40
Speaker 5: other than how hurt. They are in my head, they
36:43
Speaker 5: have decided the punishment is exile and nothing less is acceptable.
36:47
Speaker 5: I feel like it's hard to make a place for
36:49
Speaker 5: them to play that would feel safe enough for them.
36:52
Speaker 5: I tend to have a lot of empathy for others,
36:53
Speaker 5: and I feel like I can see it from both sides.
36:56
Speaker 5: My goal is to make a place where people can
36:58
Speaker 5: have fun together, make friends, and lean on one another
37:01
Speaker 5: during hard times. These events have taken their toll on
37:04
Speaker 5: the server and the staff's mental health from all the drama.
37:07
Speaker 5: Are there any suggestions you might have about how to
37:09
Speaker 5: write rules for people on the spectrum? Are there communication
37:13
Speaker 5: techniques that might help avoid misunderstandings? Are there any good
37:17
Speaker 5: books or resources you would recommend on community management or
37:21
Speaker 5: conflict resolution? Thank you so much for your help, Signed,
37:25
Speaker 5: Lovely Spark. Pronouns are she and her?
37:28
Speaker 4: Thank you. That's really cool that you actually you know,
37:32
Speaker 4: because originally when hearing this, my first thought kind of
37:36
Speaker 4: reminded me of.
37:37
Speaker 1: Like our discoord, which has a growing pain. Yeah.
37:40
Speaker 4: I mean, anytime you've got a group of people on
37:43
Speaker 4: the Internet, there's always going to be trauma.
37:45
Speaker 1: Even my therapy, Yes, correctly, my.
37:48
Speaker 4: Approach has just been to never go on.
37:50
Speaker 1: That has worked for you. Actually, yeah, but now and
37:56
Speaker 1: then somebody tags me and.
37:57
Speaker 4: I look at it, but no, I lovely Spark. I
38:01
Speaker 4: love the fact that you have actually like looked into
38:05
Speaker 4: the ADHD and and you're factoring that in.
38:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, I like that question because I
38:13
Speaker 1: think a lot of people would just.
38:14
Speaker 4: Be like ei, there be an assholes and not give
38:17
Speaker 4: any other thought to it. But the fact that you've
38:19
Speaker 4: like you've made that connection and you realize like, well, she's.
38:22
Speaker 1: Trying to both sides, and she's trying she's trying to
38:24
Speaker 1: look at both sides of the of the problem here,
38:26
Speaker 1: which is that's great what you want. Yeah, it's easy
38:28
Speaker 1: to be dismissive. It's easy to be like, sure, it's
38:30
Speaker 1: the Internet, you know, don't put your feelings out there
38:32
Speaker 1: to get stepped on. That's your problem. Blah blah blah.
38:35
Speaker 5: But then I think to try to do what Lovely
38:36
Speaker 5: Spark's doing and say, look, we really do want people
38:38
Speaker 5: to feel comfortable. We want there to be some kind
38:40
Speaker 5: of like reaction, but the reactions they want are black
38:44
Speaker 5: and white. You know, they want people to like be
38:45
Speaker 5: banned or be kicked out and exile from a community that.
38:49
Speaker 1: Goes all the way back to biblical times.
38:51
Speaker 5: Man like that always is like the way people try
38:54
Speaker 5: to do it, and boy do I not think that
38:55
Speaker 5: is a good like human management system?
38:58
Speaker 2: Well, I think I am not an expert in neurodivergence.
39:03
Speaker 2: So I'm just going to preface that really quickly.
39:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, but from ask me some questions about it. Multiple choice.
39:16
Speaker 2: I have thought that and like if this were a blank.
39:22
Speaker 2: But thinking back on again, friends, clients, even clients who
39:27
Speaker 2: have family members we've like that's affected them in our session,
39:32
Speaker 2: who have been either on the spectrum or ADHD all
39:36
Speaker 2: these things, I just say, neurodivergence.
39:40
Speaker 3: There are a few things. One, the sense of justice
39:43
Speaker 3: is strong. So that's what.
39:45
Speaker 2: I see here when they go that that black and
39:47
Speaker 2: white or ban them, it's like there's such a strong
39:51
Speaker 2: sense of justice with them that that in the moment
39:54
Speaker 2: feels like the approp I'm using appropriate quotes, the appropriate
39:58
Speaker 2: reaction for them, like just get them off of here
40:00
Speaker 2: because I'm hurt and there needs to be a toll
40:03
Speaker 2: paid for that.
40:04
Speaker 1: Or they've decided what the justice needs to be, and
40:07
Speaker 1: so if it's not that that, it's not justice. Correct
40:09
Speaker 1: but if you're not achieving justice, then what are we
40:12
Speaker 1: doing here?
40:13
Speaker 4: Yeah?
40:13
Speaker 3: Why do I want to be a part?
40:14
Speaker 1: Exactly? Now?
40:16
Speaker 3: The flip side of that is.
40:19
Speaker 2: Also when speaking with people who are NEU divergent, they
40:24
Speaker 2: really appreciate frankness and directness and kindness and sensitivity, so
40:29
Speaker 2: being mindful of how you're saying it, but also very
40:32
Speaker 2: clear on what the what the consequences are for certain
40:36
Speaker 2: things and how that's managed. And I don't know how
40:41
Speaker 2: transparent you are about that process, and maybe you don't
40:44
Speaker 2: need to be, like I'm not saying just open that
40:47
Speaker 2: up to right.
40:49
Speaker 3: They're always going to question how.
40:51
Speaker 1: Do you not see this? You only scored one on
40:53
Speaker 1: my God?
40:54
Speaker 2: But I think if there are and maybe you are already
40:57
Speaker 2: doing this, so sorry if you are, but I would
40:58
Speaker 2: just find a way to list out, you know, some
41:01
Speaker 2: general ideas of just kind of like get it here,
41:03
Speaker 2: but maybe a few more specifics like these are the
41:06
Speaker 2: types of things that.
41:07
Speaker 5: Are It's definitely a good example like creator and an
41:10
Speaker 5: expectations setter of like here's what our system would look like.
41:14
Speaker 5: This is when we reserve the guillotine, right like death sentence,
41:18
Speaker 5: the ban hammer comes down rarely.
41:21
Speaker 3: There's zero tolerance for this thing.
41:23
Speaker 1: Right, we might mute somebody. There's still welcome in the discord,
41:27
Speaker 1: but we might put them on mute for a while
41:28
Speaker 1: or put them on a cool off like there's there's
41:30
Speaker 1: steps we do way before that.
41:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, but spelling it out, Yeah, definitely spelling that out.
41:35
Speaker 2: And then there's one other thing I was gonna say,
41:38
Speaker 2: and I forgot it now, so that's gone.
41:41
Speaker 4: Well. I was gonna say one of the things too
41:42
Speaker 4: that I've noticed, and this doesn't have anything really particular
41:46
Speaker 4: to do with like neurodivergence or anything like that. I've
41:50
Speaker 4: just kind of noticed it as like working in an
41:53
Speaker 4: organization where I may have a leadership role, right where
41:56
Speaker 4: like an.
41:57
Speaker 1: H like an H O A.
42:01
Speaker 4: But anytime working with people and you have to tell
42:04
Speaker 4: them something bad, you know that Oftentimes I've seen people
42:09
Speaker 4: really struggle with giving that information or giving that feedback
42:13
Speaker 4: because they try so hard to manage the person's feelings
42:17
Speaker 4: and let them down slowly that their message becomes muddy
42:21
Speaker 4: and very related. Clear where I've always found it easiest
42:25
Speaker 4: to just say maybe one small thing to demonstrate empathy
42:32
Speaker 4: or acknowledge their position or how they may feel. Just
42:36
Speaker 4: one sentence yep, and then follow up with one sentence
42:39
Speaker 4: that is very clear what happened and why it's more
42:43
Speaker 4: factual yeah, and then just and then leave it as
42:46
Speaker 4: if you can't do it in two sentences, then something's wrong.
42:49
Speaker 2: Well maybe just that first sentence is like validating, like
42:53
Speaker 2: I see you're upset or you know, that's very general,
42:56
Speaker 2: but yeah, I see this bothers you. I can I
42:59
Speaker 2: can have an eye of how that feels bad.
43:01
Speaker 5: Which really goes a long way into how I think
43:03
Speaker 5: Like the question of how can I design rules?
43:06
Speaker 1: I agree with you Whitney.
43:07
Speaker 5: I think that it make sure that there's a way
43:10
Speaker 5: to standardize the expectation, giving examples to help illustrate, helping
43:15
Speaker 5: people understand, and maybe even quantifying it. I think it helps.
43:18
Speaker 5: Say five percent of the time we ban people without return,
43:22
Speaker 5: you know, ten percent of the time, we would ban
43:25
Speaker 5: somebody for two days. This amount of percentage, we would
43:28
Speaker 5: mute them, this amount of percentage we would allow them
43:31
Speaker 5: to stay, but we would talk to them, we dm
43:33
Speaker 5: them privately, or we'll bring you.
43:34
Speaker 1: Know that way they can go.
43:36
Speaker 5: Okay, So did the thing that happened to me rise
43:38
Speaker 5: to the top five percent of things that have ever
43:40
Speaker 5: happened in the server, because that if I expect that punishment,
43:44
Speaker 5: but in the history of the server, that's not common.
43:47
Speaker 5: Now I have a way to write size what my
43:49
Speaker 5: expectation of justice should be. So setting that stage early,
43:52
Speaker 5: I think is really helpful. But when it comes to
43:54
Speaker 5: like how to train your team, one of the things
43:57
Speaker 5: I would point you to is coming back to some
43:59
Speaker 5: of those basic escalation skills that we've all had to
44:02
Speaker 5: use as therapists and especially people running like facilities and
44:05
Speaker 5: and substance abuse all the time. And if you go
44:08
Speaker 5: through our discord or not our discord, if you go
44:09
Speaker 5: to our patroon patreon dot com slash therapy, I think
44:12
Speaker 5: for five bucks as think as the price right now,
44:14
Speaker 5: you can get in there. You can see the entire
44:16
Speaker 5: library of everything we've ever recorded. And as you know,
44:19
Speaker 5: every Monday we publish new skills research all sorts of stuff.
44:23
Speaker 5: We have done deep dives into de escalation skills, and
44:26
Speaker 5: I went over the three a's of assertive communication and
44:29
Speaker 5: attached the worksheet that I give to patients in session
44:32
Speaker 5: to illustrate the ideas. That is something that I think
44:35
Speaker 5: you should find and use because it's very simple. It's
44:38
Speaker 5: very effective. It addresses a person, it hears a person,
44:42
Speaker 5: and it also kind of steers them in this subtle
44:45
Speaker 5: way without like being dismissive or controlling or trying to
44:48
Speaker 5: minimize their experience, but also helps them write, size, what
44:51
Speaker 5: the expectations are or what your staff is going to do,
44:55
Speaker 5: and like guides them toward acceptance of that. So that
44:58
Speaker 5: de escalation skills. I think it's a big, big fact
45:00
Speaker 5: and how you manage the server de escalation technique Number one,
45:04
Speaker 5: punch him in the face.
45:05
Speaker 4: No, if anybody ever brings something up that makes you
45:08
Speaker 4: feel uncomfortable, assert that they're a liar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
45:13
Speaker 4: make that number one.
45:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
45:14
Speaker 1: I always say that. Yeah, and then use a lot
45:19
Speaker 1: of labels, you know, tiring communist, you know, get really
45:24
Speaker 1: excited with it. Just just go if you don't say
45:26
Speaker 1: hitler at least three times or fucked up?
45:28
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, write a disk track, you know, throw that
45:31
Speaker 5: in there, just start a wrap battle.
45:33
Speaker 1: Actually feel free to write a distract.
45:39
Speaker 5: More effective than people realize. I haven't heard anything after
45:42
Speaker 5: Kendrick lamar Lay went down, so I would be.
45:44
Speaker 4: Really interested because I know we got some some listeners
45:47
Speaker 4: that may kind of fall into that onto that spectrum
45:50
Speaker 4: or deal with ADHD.
45:52
Speaker 1: I would love to.
45:53
Speaker 4: Hear from any of our writers, how would you want
45:56
Speaker 4: to be approached if you did something on Discord or
46:00
Speaker 4: on any kind of server and assuming unjustly, yeah, or
46:05
Speaker 4: even just assuming that you rightfully did what you did right,
46:08
Speaker 4: you know, how would you want to be approached with
46:11
Speaker 4: that information? I would love to hear it. I'm not
46:12
Speaker 4: going to go on to Discord, but maybe Jim, yeah, I'll.
46:16
Speaker 1: Tell you what hapened. But yeah, here's what I would
46:19
Speaker 1: do if I was the brighter. I have a multi
46:21
Speaker 1: step process. Step step, I would just say, look myself
46:26
Speaker 1: and the other the other person who runs it, my
46:29
Speaker 1: friend who runs it with me. Uh, we are the
46:33
Speaker 1: end all be all when it comes to judging what
46:36
Speaker 1: these things are. You can lay out all the numbers.
46:37
Speaker 1: You can do all those things and tell people that, like, yeah, three,
46:41
Speaker 1: if you get a three, you're out. Uh, you know,
46:43
Speaker 1: here are some examples of what a three would be.
46:45
Speaker 1: There are other things that were not listing. Make sure
46:47
Speaker 1: you always say that, like there are other things that
46:49
Speaker 1: we might decide later or three, But here are some
46:51
Speaker 1: examples of what a three could be. Could look like.
46:54
Speaker 1: Here are some examples of what a two could look like.
46:55
Speaker 1: Here's some examples of what a one would look like.
46:58
Speaker 7: Right.
46:58
Speaker 1: Here are some examples of things that we would say,
47:00
Speaker 1: this is a zero, this is nothing, but that have
47:03
Speaker 1: been turned into us as potential problems before that we
47:06
Speaker 1: don't see as problems, right, And I would say, we
47:10
Speaker 1: are going to be the arbiters of justice here. We
47:13
Speaker 1: are going to deal with all of these things. You
47:15
Speaker 1: by being in this group, you are signaling your acceptance
47:20
Speaker 1: and respect of the fact that we are going to
47:22
Speaker 1: be the ones to do that. Right. More. Furthermore, if
47:26
Speaker 1: you ask for a specific punishment for someone, if you
47:30
Speaker 1: are reporting malfeasance of some sort, great report the malfeasance
47:35
Speaker 1: and your job is done. If you ask for a
47:38
Speaker 1: punishment that is a minimum of a one day mute, right,
47:41
Speaker 1: and you you start a punishment system for people who
47:45
Speaker 1: ask for specific punishment, right. Yeah. I like that. And
47:48
Speaker 1: it's just you know, hey, you can ask for a
47:50
Speaker 1: punishment and it's not like a ban or whatever. So
47:54
Speaker 1: it's like, if you think it's important enough to ask
47:57
Speaker 1: for a punishment, you're going to suffer this commonsequence. Yeah,
48:00
Speaker 1: I like, Well, listen, to your suggestion, but you will
48:02
Speaker 1: suffer this consequence. I like that a lot. Two things
48:05
Speaker 1: that that I think I've seen in Discord I'm pretty active.
48:12
Speaker 4: And I'm taking it, but don't don't it three times
48:15
Speaker 4: in a row.
48:17
Speaker 5: Some things that I've seen work in the Discord world
48:20
Speaker 5: our server and everyone's that I've been on, I've seen
48:27
Speaker 5: it work where one. I've seen rule boards where they say, look,
48:32
Speaker 5: we have a council culture, not a cancel culture here.
48:35
Speaker 5: If somebody is out of line and you tell us
48:37
Speaker 5: about it, understand that our first move is to help
48:40
Speaker 5: them understand what our server is like. And the way
48:44
Speaker 5: we do that is one, we want them to like
48:46
Speaker 5: listen and notice how other people talk, and we try
48:49
Speaker 5: to get them to slow down and listen and notice
48:51
Speaker 5: what's cool and what's not cool, and what kinds of people.
48:52
Speaker 1: Have a sense of humor or whatever.
48:54
Speaker 5: And then you know, we also will pull them aside
48:56
Speaker 5: and go, hey man, that kind of stuff's out of bound.
48:58
Speaker 5: Stop hitting on people like whatever, you know, and like
49:00
Speaker 5: they counsel them. And a lot of times people are
49:02
Speaker 5: really responding to go hey man, I'm sorry. I've been
49:04
Speaker 5: in other servers that operated very differently I'm getting it.
49:08
Speaker 5: Thank you fucked every everybody in last ever and so no,
49:11
Speaker 5: it's it's really crazy because I'm in some servers are
49:12
Speaker 5: like people pop in and like they just start popping
49:14
Speaker 5: off trying to like show their dick or whatever.
49:16
Speaker 1: And then like, okay, you're when you say you're active
49:18
Speaker 1: in discord, you meet outside of the outside of the
49:21
Speaker 1: other ones, and so like I'll get video game ones.
49:28
Speaker 1: I'm usually the guy who gets DM by the moderators,
49:30
Speaker 1: and there dick showing discord and there is discords. No, no, no,
49:37
Speaker 1: I'm not going that far with it that I will.
49:39
Speaker 4: I will do that.
49:40
Speaker 1: Dick showing discord is going in the title.
49:43
Speaker 5: So that one, I think is one thing that you
49:45
Speaker 5: can do that like helps people kind of like see
49:48
Speaker 5: and understand that, hey, our our our response is generally
49:51
Speaker 5: to coach and to counsel and to try to like
49:54
Speaker 5: help people get along and like we're trying to help
49:56
Speaker 5: them out. The other thing I would tell you, and
49:58
Speaker 5: this is something I hope that you listen to because
49:59
Speaker 5: I think it's one of the biggest takeaways. Sometimes people
50:02
Speaker 5: like that leaving your community is the best thing.
50:05
Speaker 1: For the future of your community.
50:06
Speaker 5: If there are people that are super touchy and banging
50:10
Speaker 5: their hands on the table and saying I demand X,
50:12
Speaker 5: Y and Z, and they're just gonna keep getting offended.
50:14
Speaker 5: There's gonna be another person, another person, other person. They
50:17
Speaker 5: are gonna keep pushing everybody else out and having you
50:19
Speaker 5: ban everybody until nobody wants to be a part of
50:21
Speaker 5: that kind of a community.
50:22
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be in a community.
50:24
Speaker 5: People that are that frail and that easily agitated and
50:27
Speaker 5: like ganging up and like trying. Like if I was
50:30
Speaker 5: running a company and there were people that were like
50:33
Speaker 5: going trying to start mutinies, like getting other coworkers, They're like,
50:37
Speaker 5: fuck this place, man, fuck the leadership.
50:38
Speaker 1: They're terrible. We should always walk out. We could all
50:40
Speaker 1: do better. I fucking hope you quit.
50:43
Speaker 5: That would be the best thing for my company, is
50:45
Speaker 5: that you leave, And I hope you take five of
50:47
Speaker 5: the other naysayers with you on your way out the door,
50:50
Speaker 5: and I can replace you with people that aren't assholes
50:53
Speaker 5: and dragging this place into the mud and making it
50:55
Speaker 5: this weird like everybody's pissy all the time environment. So
50:58
Speaker 5: sometimes a mutiny and p people like self purging from
51:01
Speaker 5: your community is honestly, the best thing could happen.
51:04
Speaker 4: It reminds me of one of those posters from the
51:07
Speaker 4: the despair dot com posters. Uh huh, something that was
51:11
Speaker 4: like an hr poster or something that said something the
51:14
Speaker 4: effect of like, sometimes the fastest way to improve company
51:17
Speaker 4: morale is to fire all the unhappy.
51:24
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not wrong, the math is mathing.
51:29
Speaker 2: I was I remembered what my other thing I was
51:31
Speaker 2: going to say earlier was moved.
51:36
Speaker 3: Just give me the quick, give me the trivia.
51:41
Speaker 1: Wow, she's like weirdly attracted to you now, lips like,
51:46
Speaker 1: I don't know what just happened because he's so mean.
51:50
Speaker 1: I'll bet you I could just do enough to win.
51:55
Speaker 1: Why were Sunglass in the studio podcast.
52:05
Speaker 7: Go on?
52:06
Speaker 2: No? I was just gonna say, you're not responsible for
52:08
Speaker 2: other people's feelings.
52:09
Speaker 3: I mean, that's just the go to.
52:11
Speaker 2: I get that you're empathetic, and I highly value that
52:14
Speaker 2: quality in you as a person, as a human planet.
52:18
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, when they leave,
52:19
Speaker 2: that can feel sad, that can feel disappointing, But it's okay.
52:23
Speaker 2: You're not responsible for making them feel included and all
52:27
Speaker 2: these things like you are running this discord to reach
52:31
Speaker 2: a majority of people, and that's what you have to
52:33
Speaker 2: folks on.
52:34
Speaker 3: So it's kind of a little bit.
52:35
Speaker 5: Always, the hardest part of leadership of any kind of
52:38
Speaker 5: organization of people is just that there will inherently be
52:41
Speaker 5: a percentage who dislike you, who feel that you're doing
52:44
Speaker 5: everything wrong, who feel that they could do it better.
52:46
Speaker 5: And really taking on that role is just trying to
52:49
Speaker 5: do what you said, like fifty one percent. You know,
52:51
Speaker 5: you're just trying to get the plurality or the majority.
52:53
Speaker 5: Just be happy there and the rest suck. And that's
52:56
Speaker 5: just the way it is.
52:57
Speaker 3: Now, take off those sunglasses, jem.
53:00
Speaker 1: I want our break music to be that. What is
53:02
Speaker 1: the fucking uh C? I s like like the electric
53:06
Speaker 1: guitar and that asshole always like flicks the sunglasses. You
53:09
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about? That one is that a
53:13
Speaker 1: different I don't know one, dude, He's like a meme. Anyway.
53:19
Speaker 2: This is why I'm not a bad boy.
53:22
Speaker 5: Jim is not very good at being bad. I insult
53:25
Speaker 5: you and I'm like, are you okay? I'm so sorry
53:27
Speaker 5: I made you this omelet.
53:30
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
53:32
Speaker 1: we are going to discuss discovering that your friend trigger
53:36
Speaker 1: Warning is a pedophile. You're listening to pod therapy.
53:40
Speaker 4: Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Judy Schneider, Leon,
53:44
Speaker 4: Carolyn Albert, Sam Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Holm, Darren Cunningham,
53:49
Speaker 4: Matt and Lisa Tanchaman. And if you would like to
53:51
Speaker 4: sparse the show, become a therap producer Patreon dot com
53:54
Speaker 4: slash therapy. I mean, if you are a therapeut producer
53:58
Speaker 4: therapy here, you get to set get to know their producer.
54:04
Speaker 4: Interview mandatory because I'm reading some of these names. Some
54:10
Speaker 4: of y'all have not gotten in touch with me. Reach out,
54:16
Speaker 4: all right, here we go.
54:17
Speaker 3: That's ye Disney dude.
54:22
Speaker 1: Did you hear the New Disney album. Oh, it's called
54:25
Speaker 1: a Whole New Sound. It's on Spotify. It's a I'm
54:29
Speaker 1: listening to. It's an entire.
54:30
Speaker 5: Album of old pop punk bands covering famous Disney songs.
54:35
Speaker 1: It fucking rules. You will love the ship out. It's
54:40
Speaker 1: called a Whole New Sound. You are a bad boy. Yeah,
54:46
Speaker 1: As I'm singing Colors of the Wind around.
54:51
Speaker 4: When we asked Whitney to be on the show, this
54:53
Speaker 4: is not the thing that I thought would draw the
54:55
Speaker 4: two of you together.
54:56
Speaker 1: Like, I did not see this as.
54:58
Speaker 5: Our millennial Disney mat Jick is strong. We have broken
55:02
Speaker 5: into song more than one.
55:05
Speaker 1: We have that one bond.
55:06
Speaker 4: Alright, person, don't ever say that again?
55:12
Speaker 1: Get out? Why don't you start throwing it at her face?
55:19
Speaker 1: Jacob reaches.
55:23
Speaker 4: Know alright, Okay, what is the ethical principle principle of
55:28
Speaker 4: veracity in counseling?
55:30
Speaker 1: Veracity?
55:31
Speaker 4: Veracity? That sounds better? Is it maintaining client confidentiality, acting
55:38
Speaker 4: in the client's best interest, being truthful and transparent with clients,
55:43
Speaker 4: ensuing equitable treatment for all clients?
55:47
Speaker 1: We got this. We have to do a shut the
55:48
Speaker 1: funk up and wait, I listen to that shut A.
55:56
Speaker 4: Meaningful clients maintaining client confidentiality. Great.
56:00
Speaker 1: I really didn't listen to the question or the answer.
56:02
Speaker 3: Damn chance you were listening.
56:07
Speaker 1: To you guys going a dude, what the fun that?
56:14
Speaker 1: I was like, I could have Nick free read all
56:16
Speaker 1: of it, or I could just guess and maybe just
56:19
Speaker 1: maybe wow, you're going, yeah, I'm going to c.
56:26
Speaker 4: Being truthful and transparent with clients.
56:29
Speaker 1: It is Jim clauses the right.
56:34
Speaker 3: Well done, Jim.
56:37
Speaker 4: Yep, No, he's he's taking this seriously because he knows
56:40
Speaker 4: that certain people may be.
56:41
Speaker 1: Listening to Okay, you didn't get rid of this. This
56:47
Speaker 1: is actually really dangerous. I never even thought about that,
56:50
Speaker 1: but I'm like really scared to get this wrong.
56:53
Speaker 2: Honestly, That's why he brought up that whole story was
56:56
Speaker 2: because of like.
56:57
Speaker 3: He's listening.
57:00
Speaker 1: We really need to stop doing this.
57:01
Speaker 3: We're not we have different.
57:09
Speaker 4: We've all voted, all right, what is the critical What
57:17
Speaker 4: is the critical incident stress debriefing c I s D
57:20
Speaker 4: model primarily used.
57:22
Speaker 1: For off ones underwear.
57:27
Speaker 4: Critical assessing chronic mental health conditions, preventing long term psychological
57:34
Speaker 4: effects after traumatic events, providing routine therapy sessions, or enhancing
57:40
Speaker 4: social skills and clients.
57:42
Speaker 1: Ah See, I forgot to listen to the rest of
57:44
Speaker 1: the question after you said the word debrief.
57:47
Speaker 4: Providing routine therapy sessions. That sounds like something you people
57:52
Speaker 4: like to do.
57:52
Speaker 1: Okay, b B is the preventing long term trauma? Right?
57:57
Speaker 4: Yes, preventing long term psychological.
57:59
Speaker 1: Effect X.
58:02
Speaker 4: Events?
58:03
Speaker 1: Correct?
58:11
Speaker 6: Do we have social work exam questions?
58:17
Speaker 1: I'm just letting you guys get back into sight. He
58:21
Speaker 1: is still getting three to your.
58:23
Speaker 3: One listening anymore?
58:25
Speaker 1: The problem I'm not just bored with these questions. They're
58:28
Speaker 1: too easy, all right? Last one throwing up half court shots?
58:33
Speaker 1: Is drinking a beer?
58:34
Speaker 4: In dialectical behavioral therapy d BT, what is the purpose
58:39
Speaker 4: of the chain analysis technique identifying and modifying irrational beliefs,
58:46
Speaker 4: analyzing the sequence of events leading to a problematic behavior,
58:52
Speaker 4: enhancing emotional regulation through mindfulness, or developing social skills and assertiveness.
58:58
Speaker 4: I think I know this one. B okay, Jacob says,
59:02
Speaker 4: be analyzing the sequence of events leading to a problematic behavior.
59:08
Speaker 4: Whitney and Jim.
59:09
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go be as well.
59:11
Speaker 7: Oh them, it is God, It's fine.
59:25
Speaker 1: The lights there we go the l I should listen
59:32
Speaker 1: to the last question.
59:33
Speaker 4: Good job, Wow, way to defend that lead.
59:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, alright, let's end the show on a high note.
59:41
Speaker 1: This should have been the middle question. Should have probably
59:47
Speaker 1: all right, trigger warning, this is gonna have to do
59:49
Speaker 1: with pedophilia. So if you are listening to show with
59:53
Speaker 1: your kids, which what the fuck like? We've been clear
59:55
Speaker 1: for years judging children should not be listening to the show.
59:58
Speaker 1: It is for adults. Also, the jokes I'm liable to
1:00:01
Speaker 1: make during the section of the show are going to
1:00:02
Speaker 1: be terrible, I would anybody I am not affiliated with
1:00:08
Speaker 1: Jacob I Jim jo I'm going to make some horrible
1:00:13
Speaker 1: jokes right now. Deep breath, Ophelia. Oh there you go.
1:00:20
Speaker 1: It could be of those discovered.
1:00:22
Speaker 5: My friend is a pedophile greeting's Nick, Jim Whitney and Jacob.
1:00:27
Speaker 5: I just learned recently that a good friend of mine
1:00:29
Speaker 5: has struggled with pedophilia. My wife and I are beginning
1:00:32
Speaker 5: the journey of adopting a child, and I had asked
1:00:34
Speaker 5: this friend to be a character reference for me. He
1:00:37
Speaker 5: let me know that it probably wasn't a good idea
1:00:39
Speaker 5: because he had done some bad things in his past,
1:00:41
Speaker 5: involving miners when he was young and stupid, and has
1:00:45
Speaker 5: been working very hard to better himself and not let
1:00:48
Speaker 5: this pass define him. But he did not want his
1:00:51
Speaker 5: mistakes to reflect poorly on me. I told him I understood,
1:00:54
Speaker 5: and said, I hope you don't think and he said,
1:00:57
Speaker 5: I hope you don't think less of me because of this.
1:01:00
Speaker 5: My morbid curiosity got the better of me and I
1:01:02
Speaker 5: googled him and it turns out he is a registered
1:01:05
Speaker 5: sex offender having charges of possessing child pornography and other
1:01:09
Speaker 5: related offenses. He did his time in prison and is
1:01:13
Speaker 5: not offended again. I don't believe he is a current
1:01:16
Speaker 5: threat to children. He's married with children of his own,
1:01:19
Speaker 5: and they all seem very happy as a family. My
1:01:21
Speaker 5: wife has stated she would not want him around our
1:01:24
Speaker 5: future children unsupervised, which I understand and I agree with.
1:01:28
Speaker 5: I have always viewed pedophiles as less than human, But
1:01:32
Speaker 5: now I'm struggling because I know my friend is a
1:01:36
Speaker 5: good person who did wrong in the past, and I
1:01:39
Speaker 5: don't believe he would ever hurt a child again. But
1:01:42
Speaker 5: I'm having a hard time letting go of what I
1:01:44
Speaker 5: know about him now. Thanks for any help you can
1:01:47
Speaker 5: give me on this, Anonymous. Okay, all right.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: I'll start with the low hanging fruit are to not
1:01:55
Speaker 1: really be attracted to them with those little lights that
1:01:57
Speaker 1: they were on their forehead so they could see undergrad out. Yeah, yeah,
1:02:01
Speaker 1: they filled the little carts with diamonds and everything. That
1:02:07
Speaker 1: was a good joke. Yeah, that's Jacob. Jim's over here.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: Jim's definitely not that guy that will not work out,
1:02:15
Speaker 1: even though honestly he's doing better on the exam. I
1:02:17
Speaker 1: how he I mean, like, what's joke myself, Jim, pretty
1:02:28
Speaker 1: clean joke.
1:02:30
Speaker 5: Well, this is a very interesting question, and I think, Okay,
1:02:33
Speaker 5: so it definitely turned out better than I thought it
1:02:35
Speaker 5: was going to be. Yeah, I'm always glad to hear
1:02:37
Speaker 5: that somebody is reformed that they do not do this anymore.
1:02:40
Speaker 5: It sounds like the friend seems to have great insight
1:02:43
Speaker 5: and is even saying, hey, look, I want to support
1:02:45
Speaker 5: you in your journey. And this unfortunately requires me to
1:02:48
Speaker 5: share this about because I could just say no.
1:02:51
Speaker 3: I was really impressed the friend to.
1:02:52
Speaker 4: Yeah anything absolutely, that was That was my first take
1:02:57
Speaker 4: on this too, was wow. I mean, congratulates to him big, Like,
1:03:02
Speaker 4: let's let's give credit where credit is due, right, this
1:03:05
Speaker 4: is something he could have said nothing. Yeah, he could
1:03:07
Speaker 4: have said nothing at all. He could have just let
1:03:10
Speaker 4: everything go. But he did the right thing. He was
1:03:14
Speaker 4: honest that that would have been very difficult for him,
1:03:17
Speaker 4: for anybody to just come out and say that, knowing
1:03:20
Speaker 4: that it's going to change the relationship, knowing that you
1:03:24
Speaker 4: are going to tell your wife and it's going to
1:03:26
Speaker 4: change that relationship. I mean, this is a whole series
1:03:29
Speaker 4: of events that he knew was going to happen, and
1:03:33
Speaker 4: he did the right thing and went through.
1:03:34
Speaker 2: With it, Like he could have even said I've done
1:03:37
Speaker 2: things in my past and left off the miners part.
1:03:40
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, it's been like, oh,
1:03:42
Speaker 2: I don't think i'd be a good character.
1:03:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, many many ways that he could have softened the
1:03:48
Speaker 4: edges on all of them. Yeah.
1:03:49
Speaker 5: Well, And I wonder if the friend was also kind
1:03:52
Speaker 5: of getting ahead of it, because it's like, hey, you're
1:03:54
Speaker 5: going to adopt, like right now, they don't have children,
1:03:57
Speaker 5: You're going to eventually. We're very good friends, and I
1:04:01
Speaker 5: am legally required to inform you whenever you do have
1:04:04
Speaker 5: a child in your home. And it seems like friend
1:04:06
Speaker 5: is a rule following reformed person like has come out
1:04:10
Speaker 5: of the system, follows the rules. They are registered. There's
1:04:13
Speaker 5: a lot of people that don't, and this person is
1:04:15
Speaker 5: keeping up the registration. It is googleable and so whenever
1:04:19
Speaker 5: you can find it, that means they're following the rules.
1:04:21
Speaker 5: And right he doesn't have to tell everybody everywhere, but
1:04:24
Speaker 5: he is required to inform somebody with a child nearby
1:04:27
Speaker 5: or you know, situations like that, And so I could see,
1:04:30
Speaker 5: like I think they're required in some states depends in
1:04:32
Speaker 5: the state to go to their neighbors.
1:04:34
Speaker 4: Also depends on the offense too.
1:04:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't been in the offense and time and
1:04:38
Speaker 5: things like that, And there's different kinds of ways that
1:04:41
Speaker 5: by participating in counseling and doing good work you could
1:04:44
Speaker 5: sort of get reductions of punishment, and there's a system
1:04:47
Speaker 5: to sort of reward good work. But yeah, I think
1:04:49
Speaker 5: we all agree. Wow, the honesty is is something. Yeah,
1:04:53
Speaker 5: we definitely are impressed with that.
1:04:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, Adam.
1:04:56
Speaker 1: And that goes to show that the writers kind of
1:04:58
Speaker 1: radar on this, that the the writer thinking this person
1:05:01
Speaker 1: is is just a genuinely good person, you know. It
1:05:05
Speaker 1: goes to show that the writer's sense of that is
1:05:07
Speaker 1: probably on your friend is probably pretty good. Yeah.
1:05:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I also value highly.
1:05:13
Speaker 2: What stuck out to me is you and your wife
1:05:15
Speaker 2: choosing to not leave your child unsupervised around him. Let
1:05:19
Speaker 2: me just reiterate that, reinforce that bound. I remember working
1:05:24
Speaker 2: with sex venders. That's like the number one thing to
1:05:27
Speaker 2: prevent reoffense is not having the opportunity to reoffend.
1:05:32
Speaker 1: A good read.
1:05:33
Speaker 3: So, yeah, I fully support that. I love that you
1:05:36
Speaker 3: are on the phone.
1:05:37
Speaker 1: Easy, Yeah, because like how often do you leave your
1:05:40
Speaker 1: kids alone with other people anyway.
1:05:42
Speaker 2: Well you say easy, you don't have kids, Like no,
1:05:46
Speaker 2: but I mean he's got dogs and you leave your
1:05:49
Speaker 2: dog like when you go out of town, where who
1:05:51
Speaker 2: watches your dogs?
1:05:52
Speaker 1: My friends, we'll go ben the house friends. But that's
1:05:57
Speaker 1: not the same leave me alone.
1:06:06
Speaker 3: Jim's alling out of his chair.
1:06:08
Speaker 1: No. My point was like it's easy to because like,
1:06:11
Speaker 1: I'm not on my friends who have kids, Like I'm
1:06:14
Speaker 1: not on their list to call when they need a
1:06:16
Speaker 1: babysit because like I'm not I'm not a kid person.
1:06:18
Speaker 1: I'm not like, uh you know, my house isn't particularly
1:06:22
Speaker 1: kid friendly things like that. Uh So it's it's not
1:06:25
Speaker 1: a big deal. To what I was saying is it's
1:06:27
Speaker 1: not a big deal to be like, oh, this is
1:06:29
Speaker 1: just gonna be one of those people that isn't on
1:06:31
Speaker 1: that list of people that we're gonna calleople and babysit
1:06:35
Speaker 1: for sure. Also, like the friend has a family and everything,
1:06:38
Speaker 1: like presumably they're they're busy, and they're not they're not
1:06:41
Speaker 1: available to to come babysit anyway for sure.
1:06:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, see my experience, Jim, you're the one with children here,
1:06:48
Speaker 2: you can correct me. On this, but my friends with kids,
1:06:51
Speaker 2: they look to their their friends with kids to like, hey,
1:06:54
Speaker 2: can you watch my kids because now they're playing together.
1:06:56
Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, and this friend does have and this.
1:06:58
Speaker 3: Friend has children. So that's where I was.
1:07:00
Speaker 2: Like, there might be a time that comes up where
1:07:04
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, well, his wife's there or you know,
1:07:07
Speaker 2: Like I'm just saying, you know.
1:07:08
Speaker 5: And I think also this needs to be mentioned because
1:07:10
Speaker 5: it's very easy for us to put everything in one box.
1:07:14
Speaker 5: And pedophilia is this big, bold, all caps word that
1:07:17
Speaker 5: scares the shit out of everybody, and like any crime,
1:07:21
Speaker 5: there are degrees of it that do need to be considered, right,
1:07:25
Speaker 5: and so in this story, to be clear, writer describes
1:07:28
Speaker 5: friends offense, which is public as having possessed child pornography unacceptable.
1:07:33
Speaker 5: It is a crime that we're not going to minimize that.
1:07:36
Speaker 5: If you are a person struggling with that, that is
1:07:38
Speaker 5: something that we need to correct. You do need to
1:07:40
Speaker 5: get help for that, you do need to discontinue that behavior.
1:07:44
Speaker 1: It is a crime. It is not victimless.
1:07:46
Speaker 5: It is a problem, and there are going to be
1:07:49
Speaker 5: different degrees of this. So like this is not this
1:07:52
Speaker 5: person was found abusing a child, that would obviously carry
1:07:57
Speaker 5: a much heavier sentence not producing child pornoge and they're
1:08:00
Speaker 5: not abusing anybody in that very direct way. So that's again, listeners,
1:08:04
Speaker 5: gym's not minimizing, I Jacob, I'm not menizing any of that.
1:08:09
Speaker 5: But it's just to make sure that people understand that
1:08:10
Speaker 5: there is a spectrum. Yes, and we don't want to
1:08:12
Speaker 5: just one box everything because that we are adults, we
1:08:16
Speaker 5: can all get into the nuanced.
1:08:17
Speaker 1: It sounds like the writer's doing a good job of
1:08:19
Speaker 1: not doing that great job.
1:08:20
Speaker 5: It's very hard not to do pedophilia and let's speak
1:08:23
Speaker 5: to this. Pedophilia has this very powerful emotional Yeah.
1:08:28
Speaker 1: The writer says that it's so big.
1:08:30
Speaker 2: I felt like they were like, what did you say
1:08:32
Speaker 2: in human or less than human?
1:08:34
Speaker 1: Less than human? Yeah?
1:08:35
Speaker 5: And I know that for many therapists this is an
1:08:37
Speaker 5: off limit zone where they're like, I can't treat anybody
1:08:41
Speaker 5: with this problem because I struggle, and this is something
1:08:45
Speaker 5: we train for so long dealing with transference and projection,
1:08:49
Speaker 5: and for a lot of issues we overcome it. But
1:08:52
Speaker 5: for many therapists, and for me that became a problem
1:08:55
Speaker 5: in my career was you know, I used to work
1:08:57
Speaker 5: with kids and just it always was very hard for
1:09:02
Speaker 5: me to hear about anything that was abusive. I mean,
1:09:05
Speaker 5: even if it wasn't sexual, just abusive parents or just
1:09:08
Speaker 5: unkind parents, or feeling this kid's being mistreated and I
1:09:11
Speaker 5: can't rescue them. Those dad instincts would be so powerful
1:09:15
Speaker 5: that I would lose my therapist ability to be impartial
1:09:18
Speaker 5: and like give them the autonomy to make their own choices.
1:09:21
Speaker 5: I'd get too protective, and so I started having to
1:09:23
Speaker 5: realize I can't take those cases. So that's just to
1:09:26
Speaker 5: emphasize writer, how profound that feeling of disgust and frustration
1:09:31
Speaker 5: and fear can be surrounding this one particular issue.
1:09:35
Speaker 4: Well, I was going to say something similar because you know,
1:09:38
Speaker 4: like I mean, Whitney and I have both worked with
1:09:40
Speaker 4: juvenile sex offenders, and like what percentage if you had
1:09:44
Speaker 4: to guess out of all the jsos that we worked
1:09:46
Speaker 4: with had been victims, Like they were all victims at
1:09:52
Speaker 4: one point and then became offenders, you know, And it
1:09:57
Speaker 4: is one of the things that like even when you
1:09:59
Speaker 4: tell people you used to work in that population, there's
1:10:02
Speaker 4: just like it's really and and it's it's hard because
1:10:09
Speaker 4: like you're kind of get you get put in this
1:10:11
Speaker 4: position where it's like, Okay, well, I don't want to
1:10:14
Speaker 4: become like the champion for sex offenders, but I don't
1:10:19
Speaker 4: want to be like I'm going to stand up, you know, Like.
1:10:22
Speaker 1: I don't want to be the one that fights. Yeah,
1:10:25
Speaker 1: you know.
1:10:25
Speaker 3: Like but but like it's there's still a population, there's.
1:10:31
Speaker 4: Still something that's going on that we somebody has to
1:10:34
Speaker 4: kind of put some context within this. And I think
1:10:38
Speaker 4: that's the thing that's often missing, because here's the thing
1:10:40
Speaker 4: that people don't think about.
1:10:42
Speaker 1: Pedophilia is not a crime.
1:10:45
Speaker 3: I was thinking that to what I read.
1:10:47
Speaker 4: Right, pedophilia is a sexual attraction to to somebody pre pubescent. Yeah, okay,
1:10:57
Speaker 4: that's you.
1:10:58
Speaker 3: I don't want either are committed a crime, exactly.
1:11:01
Speaker 4: We don't prosecute thought crimes. Also, we know people can't
1:11:07
Speaker 4: control that. You can't control what you're attracted to. You
1:11:10
Speaker 4: do control whether or not you.
1:11:11
Speaker 3: Act question one.
1:11:15
Speaker 4: So you do control whether or not you act on that. Obviously,
1:11:20
Speaker 4: possessing child pornography is a crime. Thoughts is a crime.
1:11:25
Speaker 4: Exploitation is a crime. Like, all of this is a crime,
1:11:28
Speaker 4: and all of it we should take seriously. And I
1:11:31
Speaker 4: don't think anybody in the show is saying that we
1:11:33
Speaker 4: don't that like we're coming to their defense.
1:11:36
Speaker 3: I'm glad that he did serve time in prison. He
1:11:40
Speaker 3: dues he.
1:11:40
Speaker 4: Did his time. Yeah. And the other thing that I
1:11:42
Speaker 4: think is really important to point out here with this story,
1:11:45
Speaker 4: that everyone needs to understand is that this is a
1:11:48
Speaker 4: condition or it's a it's a it's a thing that
1:11:51
Speaker 4: can be rehabilitated.
1:11:52
Speaker 1: Yes, it is.
1:11:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, And and honestly, like I mean, just looking at
1:11:58
Speaker 4: like research from uh, you know, people who've gone through
1:12:04
Speaker 4: sexual or like offender rehabilitation programs, or are gone through
1:12:08
Speaker 4: therapy for it, like as an addictions counselor I'm jealous,
1:12:13
Speaker 4: like I wish we had those outcomes.
1:12:15
Speaker 1: Oh, the outcomes are very strong. Yeah, the outcomes are
1:12:17
Speaker 1: actually pretty good.
1:12:18
Speaker 4: Yes, So we do need to put this in contact.
1:12:23
Speaker 5: Got to humanize it a little bit, Yeah, humanizing it.
1:12:25
Speaker 5: And I appreciate you Ni getting into the mental health
1:12:28
Speaker 5: nuances of it. None of us are walking around championing this.
1:12:32
Speaker 5: We're not like, you know, members of fucking NAMBLA, you know.
1:12:35
Speaker 4: But like we're National Association for Marlon Branda lookalike.
1:12:38
Speaker 1: That's it.
1:12:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, which I am against, right, don't I Jim
1:12:42
Speaker 5: Job for it, but no, like none of us are
1:12:46
Speaker 5: championing it. But we have a responsibility which we have
1:12:48
Speaker 5: always handled really delicately on the show. Over the years,
1:12:51
Speaker 5: we have had questions authors right in who are pedophiles.
1:12:55
Speaker 5: We've had several of those come through where they have said,
1:12:58
Speaker 5: here's what I'm going through, here's my struggle. I have
1:13:01
Speaker 5: to submit this synonymously. I am literally using like every
1:13:04
Speaker 5: possible burner account because this is me admitting it. But
1:13:07
Speaker 5: I fucking need help. And it's a very hard problem
1:13:10
Speaker 5: to have because it is one of the most secretive
1:13:13
Speaker 5: things ever and there is so much terror to go
1:13:16
Speaker 5: to anybody for mental health care because and again most therapists,
1:13:20
Speaker 5: even veteran therapists that I know, would not be able
1:13:23
Speaker 5: to clearly tell us right now, what are the reporting procedures?
1:13:26
Speaker 1: What's the line?
1:13:27
Speaker 5: And everybody that's going to be talking to somebody that
1:13:29
Speaker 5: says I have this problem but I've never done anything
1:13:31
Speaker 5: with it, they're going to feel a responsibility to ask
1:13:34
Speaker 5: hard questions because if there is a reporting requirement, they
1:13:37
Speaker 5: want to make sure that they're being above board. And
1:13:39
Speaker 5: so it's very, very, very difficult to get help, and
1:13:42
Speaker 5: so I really appreciate that we can be the kinds
1:13:44
Speaker 5: of people that can get into the nuance of this,
1:13:47
Speaker 5: that can humanize this, can talk about the goodness that
1:13:50
Speaker 5: people get better. And we are still going to answer
1:13:53
Speaker 5: this author to give them some feedback on how they
1:13:56
Speaker 5: can approach their friendship. But to anybody out there who
1:13:59
Speaker 5: is strungruggling with this disease, if you find that you
1:14:02
Speaker 5: have an attraction to people that it is illegal for
1:14:04
Speaker 5: you to act upon, and this has been a struggle
1:14:07
Speaker 5: for you, the things you need to take away from
1:14:09
Speaker 5: this segment One, with treatment, this gets better. Two, there
1:14:14
Speaker 5: are so many professionals that have worked with the population
1:14:18
Speaker 5: and have done it. And you said a second ago, Nick,
1:14:20
Speaker 5: your pointing a Whitney said, you two have both worked
1:14:22
Speaker 5: at JSOS. I worked at egal Quest, I Jsu's too,
1:14:25
Speaker 5: And so like all three of us, like three out
1:14:27
Speaker 5: of three therapists on a random fucking podcast, have worked
1:14:30
Speaker 5: with sex offenders. And of course I've worked with tons
1:14:32
Speaker 5: of adult sex offenders like that happens in life, like
1:14:34
Speaker 5: it's been practiced for a long enough time. So anybody
1:14:38
Speaker 5: that's out there listening, if you are struggling with this.
1:14:41
Speaker 5: You need to know it can get better. You need
1:14:42
Speaker 5: to know getting help is normal and right. And even
1:14:45
Speaker 5: if you have done things that you are scared to share,
1:14:49
Speaker 5: therapy does not have to be a deposition. We're not
1:14:53
Speaker 5: here to give you legal counsel. We're not an extension
1:14:56
Speaker 5: of the justice system. We are interested in things like
1:14:59
Speaker 5: is are you harming people presently? And we would like
1:15:03
Speaker 5: straight answers to that. But if you also, as a patient,
1:15:07
Speaker 5: do have the right to choose what you share with us,
1:15:10
Speaker 5: and you could say, look, I am just here for help.
1:15:13
Speaker 5: I don't want to get into all the list of
1:15:15
Speaker 5: anything I've ever done ever, but I need this to
1:15:19
Speaker 5: get better, and if you can meet me where I'm at,
1:15:21
Speaker 5: I'd like to focus on that. And look, I know
1:15:24
Speaker 5: that I, as a therapist would enter into that zone
1:15:27
Speaker 5: with some discomfort, but also say, the best thing I
1:15:29
Speaker 5: can do is help you stop doing this right and
1:15:32
Speaker 5: then we can deal with what's happened in the past later.
1:15:35
Speaker 5: That's not my job, but like my job is to
1:15:37
Speaker 5: heal you. So anybody that's out there struggling with this,
1:15:39
Speaker 5: there are so many good support groups out there, and
1:15:42
Speaker 5: in the past episodes we've listed them we've found them online.
1:15:44
Speaker 1: We've referenced them. If you just.
1:15:46
Speaker 5: Type this into our search atpodtherapy dot net, you will
1:15:49
Speaker 5: find lots of episodes that have covered it. I just
1:15:52
Speaker 5: want to make sure that we definitely don't bypass that,
1:15:54
Speaker 5: because there needs to be a PSA for anybody struggling.
1:15:57
Speaker 5: There are folks out there that listen to the show
1:15:58
Speaker 5: that have admitted to us anonymously they have struggled with it.
1:16:02
Speaker 5: And we've also had people that have let us know
1:16:04
Speaker 5: later they got better.
1:16:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, that has happened. And one of them did face
1:16:08
Speaker 1: consequences and then wrote in later and said I did
1:16:11
Speaker 1: get better. So it does get better. But a lot
1:16:13
Speaker 1: of folks in this problem do not get help until
1:16:15
Speaker 1: they get.
1:16:16
Speaker 3: Caught because they're scared. Yeah.
1:16:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, until it gets worse and worse and worse. And
1:16:19
Speaker 5: you know, I've always seen pedophilia as a very interesting
1:16:23
Speaker 5: amalgamation of several factors. There's a sex addiction component to it.
1:16:26
Speaker 5: There is like that threshold pushing to get the high,
1:16:29
Speaker 5: which is where people descend into it. You're both right
1:16:32
Speaker 5: that there's a trauma history very strongly linked a not
1:16:36
Speaker 5: insignificant number of time or prevalence we see comorbidity a
1:16:42
Speaker 5: lot with this, so it is a very complex problem,
1:16:45
Speaker 5: but people do get better with help.
1:16:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, going back to kind of the writer's question, what
1:16:52
Speaker 2: are y'all's thoughts? I was teetering on this, but what
1:16:55
Speaker 2: are your thoughts on the writer kind of sitting down
1:17:02
Speaker 2: with their friend again, Not to be like what did
1:17:04
Speaker 2: you do? What our details or anything like that, but
1:17:07
Speaker 2: more like some more general questions that are like how
1:17:13
Speaker 2: did you get better? What did you take away from it?
1:17:17
Speaker 2: Or like basically clarity on like who they are.
1:17:20
Speaker 3: Now in that progress. I don't know, do you think
1:17:23
Speaker 3: that'd be helpful or hurtful?
1:17:24
Speaker 4: I think well, I think it all depends on how
1:17:27
Speaker 4: you approach it.
1:17:28
Speaker 6: Yeah.
1:17:28
Speaker 4: You know, like if if the writer goes into this
1:17:33
Speaker 4: and the and the friend kind of starts to feel
1:17:36
Speaker 4: like they're being interrogated, right, then I think, you know, like,
1:17:40
Speaker 4: this person has already suffered legal consequences. They've already done that, right,
1:17:45
Speaker 4: and if they feel like they're being attacked again they
1:17:47
Speaker 4: have to go through it a second time. That may
1:17:50
Speaker 4: not be good. But if you know, if the friend
1:17:56
Speaker 4: is just kind of like, look, I value our friendship.
1:18:00
Speaker 4: I'm an open book what do you want to know?
1:18:02
Speaker 4: If you want to talk this through. If they have
1:18:05
Speaker 4: that perspective on it, then I think it's great for
1:18:07
Speaker 4: the writer to actually take advantage of that and like
1:18:10
Speaker 4: sit down, like, yeah, ask some questions if you're asking
1:18:13
Speaker 4: them honestly, and because because you value the relationship, the
1:18:18
Speaker 4: friendship and you want to continue to be good friends
1:18:22
Speaker 4: with them, and you just you're just trying to sort
1:18:24
Speaker 4: things through in your head, you know, if you're going
1:18:27
Speaker 4: through it. I think from that perspective and like just
1:18:30
Speaker 4: an honest perspective of wanting to know, I don't think
1:18:34
Speaker 4: there's anything wrong with that. I think that may that
1:18:36
Speaker 4: could be a really good thing. I just think you
1:18:39
Speaker 4: got to be careful on how you do that.
1:18:41
Speaker 2: I just feel like when stuff like this, your mind
1:18:43
Speaker 2: can really go wild.
1:18:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
1:18:46
Speaker 4: So I was yeah, because like, h when you hear
1:18:49
Speaker 4: somebody's on the sex offender registry, the first.
1:18:52
Speaker 2: Thing you think is, yeah, I like flash the flashed
1:18:55
Speaker 2: the cop When I like, right, no.
1:18:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, you you imagine you imagine chill tied up in basements,
1:19:02
Speaker 4: you imagine something like that.
1:19:03
Speaker 1: Whereas like, yeah.
1:19:04
Speaker 4: You're right, Like I I've heard of I don't actually
1:19:07
Speaker 4: know anybody, but I've heard of people who like, we're
1:19:10
Speaker 4: out golfing and just got arrested public exposure. Boom.
1:19:16
Speaker 3: I know it's a.
1:19:17
Speaker 1: Kid who And then there's like these crime.
1:19:20
Speaker 3: For some version of that yeah.
1:19:22
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
1:19:23
Speaker 5: And then there's like tough on crime laws that are
1:19:25
Speaker 5: sometimes like we've designed a system where there is no
1:19:27
Speaker 5: nuance because all the politicians, there is no upside.
1:19:32
Speaker 4: Because if you want to if you're the politician that's like,
1:19:35
Speaker 4: this is ridiculous, I'm not going to vote for this.
1:19:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. The ad just writes itself the attack a Bob
1:19:40
Speaker 1: John voted to protect sex offenders, Well, then get rid
1:19:44
Speaker 1: of that guy.
1:19:45
Speaker 5: There is no nuance, like humans cannot get into it.
1:19:48
Speaker 5: That's why I kind of do like Whitney's suggestion of
1:19:50
Speaker 5: like approaching.
1:19:51
Speaker 1: Your friend to seek nuance, right, And I think for
1:19:54
Speaker 1: you that's going to be really profound. I agree with
1:19:57
Speaker 1: you that there could be a situation where friend is like, look,
1:20:00
Speaker 1: I reluctantly told you this. I cannot tell you the
1:20:03
Speaker 1: amount of shame and like discussed I have with this
1:20:06
Speaker 1: about myself, and I really can't. I can't talk to
1:20:09
Speaker 1: you about it. I'd be worried about that too, not
1:20:12
Speaker 1: even just that the friend might feel attacked, but it
1:20:15
Speaker 1: might just be like, man, I told you this because
1:20:17
Speaker 1: I felt like I kind of had to tell you
1:20:19
Speaker 1: this at that moment. This isn't something that I want
1:20:21
Speaker 1: to have conversations about it that it can just be
1:20:23
Speaker 1: like I don't want I can't hang out with that
1:20:25
Speaker 1: person because all that person now wants to talk to
1:20:27
Speaker 1: me about is my sex offender history.
1:20:30
Speaker 2: Well, and that's where I feel like the nuance comes in, because,
1:20:33
Speaker 2: in my opinion, if I'm going to have a child
1:20:35
Speaker 2: and I want to like trust that around you, if
1:20:38
Speaker 2: I weren't going to have a child, and I was
1:20:39
Speaker 2: just drilling you because I'm curious, I totally get Yeah,
1:20:43
Speaker 2: my opinion.
1:20:44
Speaker 1: I think you're coming from a good place.
1:20:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And I agree you don't want it
1:20:48
Speaker 2: to be an interrogation, like you aren't really trying to
1:20:50
Speaker 2: seek nuance and friendship and that. But I'm just hooked
1:20:54
Speaker 2: on the part where they're like I'm trying. I'm having
1:20:56
Speaker 2: a hard time letting go of what I know about
1:20:58
Speaker 2: him now, and it's like you really don't know much.
1:21:00
Speaker 2: You know what that title says when you look up
1:21:03
Speaker 2: on the registry, which is not always super clear.
1:21:06
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, a summary of what an offense is.
1:21:10
Speaker 2: And so maybe again, think about this hard and very
1:21:16
Speaker 2: clearly on what you want to gain from it, like
1:21:18
Speaker 2: Nick said, and how you would even want to ask this,
1:21:20
Speaker 2: But I think if it would help your friendship to maintain,
1:21:23
Speaker 2: you would be able to see your friend still as
1:21:26
Speaker 2: you know, the good person that you saw him as
1:21:28
Speaker 2: before who has this pass, and somebody that you could
1:21:32
Speaker 2: still trust around your child when you're all together, and
1:21:35
Speaker 2: not be constantly like what did they do?
1:21:37
Speaker 3: What did they do?
1:21:38
Speaker 2: Like where's my kid? Every two seconds? If you find
1:21:41
Speaker 2: that it would be helpful. I think that which would
1:21:43
Speaker 2: be but not ongoing and not like all right, let's
1:21:46
Speaker 2: go back to this again, and let's go back to this.
1:21:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, what about not making it about questions but more
1:21:52
Speaker 4: about statements, as in like the writer can like, I'm
1:21:57
Speaker 4: not going to ask you any questions. I don't you know,
1:21:59
Speaker 4: you can disclose whatever you want. I just want you
1:22:02
Speaker 4: to know that I value our relationship. I appreciate you
1:22:06
Speaker 4: telling me this. I know that was a big risk
1:22:08
Speaker 4: for you to do that, and I I appreciate the
1:22:11
Speaker 4: courage it took to do that.
1:22:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you could even add to that, like, hey,
1:22:17
Speaker 1: there are a lot of questions that are circulating around
1:22:19
Speaker 1: in my mind. I don't feel like it's my business
1:22:22
Speaker 1: to ask these questions. But is there if there is
1:22:25
Speaker 1: anything else you would like to volunteer to me that
1:22:28
Speaker 1: could have to clarify this picture in my mindiate I would.
1:22:32
Speaker 1: I would. I'd be accepting of that. I'd appreciate it,
1:22:35
Speaker 1: but also I don't want to pressure you into that. Well,
1:22:39
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that was Jacob by the way,
1:22:42
Speaker 1: Jim that of being vulnerable back to your friend because
1:22:49
Speaker 1: they were very vulnerable.
1:22:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, you should admit something you.
1:22:53
Speaker 5: But no coming back to them and saying, look, since
1:22:56
Speaker 5: you told me that, I've been struggling, and I struggled
1:22:59
Speaker 5: because to Hobo.
1:23:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, but not on purpose. He was already half dead.
1:23:05
Speaker 1: I just took a Stopwatch, So like, I think that wait,
1:23:10
Speaker 1: pocket watch, that's what I wanted. Stop stop, restart, putting stopped. Yeah, restart.
1:23:17
Speaker 1: I want to welcome to pod real people. So no,
1:23:22
Speaker 1: I like the cross vulnerability of getting back to the
1:23:24
Speaker 1: person and saying, you know, basically humanizing them but confiding
1:23:27
Speaker 1: in them and saying, you know, since you've told me this,
1:23:30
Speaker 1: it has been very different from me. I have never
1:23:32
Speaker 1: known anybody who has had this, and it's never been confessed.
1:23:35
Speaker 1: Kind of spiraled a little bit on that, and I've
1:23:37
Speaker 1: spiraled because I had a very specific view of what
1:23:40
Speaker 1: people who have done this look like and behave like,
1:23:43
Speaker 1: and are and you're none of those things. And so
1:23:46
Speaker 1: my brain is like, you have you have changed my
1:23:50
Speaker 1: view on this to some degree.
1:23:52
Speaker 5: I am struggling, and so I want to complete whatever
1:23:55
Speaker 5: process I'm going through right now, because I'm stuck in
1:23:58
Speaker 5: the middle, right between the demonic, scary clown version of
1:24:02
Speaker 5: what I've heard this is and you, a man who
1:24:04
Speaker 5: I respect, his life and his family and his children.
1:24:08
Speaker 5: So I'm adopting, and in no small way do I
1:24:12
Speaker 5: sometimes imagine myself as a father, imitating you, a dad
1:24:15
Speaker 5: I know you know, and coming to you for advice.
1:24:18
Speaker 1: And so I'm stuck between these two worlds. It would
1:24:21
Speaker 1: really help me if you ever were open to it,
1:24:23
Speaker 1: to sharing more, not just about the dirty stuff and
1:24:26
Speaker 1: what you did. I might not need to know that,
1:24:28
Speaker 1: but maybe a lot more about how you changed. And
1:24:32
Speaker 1: that would be the last thought I have on this right,
1:24:34
Speaker 1: I think it would be really what was it like
1:24:36
Speaker 1: on the other side of that?
1:24:37
Speaker 5: Teach me why things got better and how you because
1:24:40
Speaker 5: that's what the number one thing you need to hear
1:24:42
Speaker 5: about is that change happens.
1:24:45
Speaker 1: And it is possible.
1:24:46
Speaker 3: What's different?
1:24:46
Speaker 5: What's different? I mean recovered people something that that Nick
1:24:49
Speaker 5: and I have got to work with a lot in
1:24:51
Speaker 5: substance abuse are some of the best human beings I
1:24:54
Speaker 5: have ever met. No like people, if I so much
1:24:58
Speaker 5: energy there, I mean people that I know are in recovery.
1:25:02
Speaker 5: If I meet somebody and they tell me like they're
1:25:04
Speaker 5: in recovery for so long they no longer do this
1:25:06
Speaker 5: or that, in the back of my mind, I suddenly
1:25:09
Speaker 5: realize I am meeting such an authentic human who has
1:25:14
Speaker 5: done so much more personal work than almost anybody I've
1:25:17
Speaker 5: ever met in my life. And I find those people
1:25:19
Speaker 5: to be very winsome and like I look for like
1:25:22
Speaker 5: that is not a turn off. Like if I meet
1:25:23
Speaker 5: somebody that tells me that, I'm not thinking, oh shit,
1:25:25
Speaker 5: I don't want to hang out with that person because
1:25:26
Speaker 5: they used to do drugs or whatever, Like I don't
1:25:28
Speaker 5: know what they used to do in their old life.
1:25:30
Speaker 5: In fact, it goes the opposite way. The recovery thing
1:25:33
Speaker 5: adds ten points to the scales on the other side,
1:25:35
Speaker 5: because I've gotten to know what recovery is.
1:25:37
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I have the same perspective too, Like somebody
1:25:40
Speaker 4: tells me that they're like fifteen years in recovery, Like
1:25:43
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, Wow, you've had to do everything we've all
1:25:46
Speaker 4: had to do plus yeah.
1:25:48
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, with you know, weights on your back.
1:25:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so it's like, wow, that's actually.
1:25:53
Speaker 1: And they just tend to be really quality people who
1:25:55
Speaker 1: have done like really sincere efforts at like self change,
1:25:58
Speaker 1: they've addressed like character stuff. So I say that to you, writer,
1:26:01
Speaker 1: because it's very likely that though nobody's happy that your
1:26:06
Speaker 1: friend went through this, part of the person you have
1:26:10
Speaker 1: met and that you have grown to like and really
1:26:12
Speaker 1: appreciate is who they are because they went through a
1:26:16
Speaker 1: huge personal transformation and therapy and punishment and self reflection
1:26:20
Speaker 1: and reading and change. And I just don't want you
1:26:23
Speaker 1: to lose track of that, because when you hear something
1:26:25
Speaker 1: like this, it becomes such a big label that it
1:26:27
Speaker 1: eclipses everything else that they are. But in reality, what
1:26:30
Speaker 1: we're failing to see is that the change has already
1:26:32
Speaker 1: happened in so many ways, and that's so important because
1:26:36
Speaker 1: you need to be able to believe in that change.
1:26:38
Speaker 1: And look, if humans couldn't change, then we're in the
1:26:39
Speaker 1: wrong fucking business. Yeah, but they can and they do.
1:26:42
Speaker 4: That's a great point, Jacob.
1:26:44
Speaker 1: Thank you. Fuck I would like to say that I
1:26:48
Speaker 1: jim job and disagreeing with that people don't change, they're
1:26:52
Speaker 1: all bad.
1:26:53
Speaker 5: Good luck on this one, writer, But you know, I
1:26:55
Speaker 5: love that you're taking a nuanced approach.
1:26:57
Speaker 1: I love that you talked about it with your spouse
1:26:59
Speaker 1: also telling you because I could see a lot of
1:27:01
Speaker 1: people like, oh, I don't want to tell my spouse,
1:27:03
Speaker 1: it's going to ruin like my ability to even talk
1:27:04
Speaker 1: to this friend anymore. And like your spouse took a
1:27:06
Speaker 1: very moderate view of it too, like, hey, I'm not
1:27:09
Speaker 1: going to tell you not to hang out with this
1:27:10
Speaker 1: guy anymore, but I'm going to create a hard role
1:27:12
Speaker 1: right now that just this will never be an open
1:27:15
Speaker 1: door for me. Yeah, don't ever ask that. It's like, yep,
1:27:17
Speaker 1: I'm with you. We're on the same page now. I
1:27:19
Speaker 1: just have to figure out the rest.
1:27:20
Speaker 4: So this is why you never share information with your spouse,
1:27:24
Speaker 4: never tell act but you, guys.
1:27:26
Speaker 1: If somebody tells you something and says like, do not
1:27:29
Speaker 1: tell anyone else about this, do you automatically tell your
1:27:33
Speaker 1: significant other? Anyway? I was that person assume that you're
1:27:37
Speaker 1: going to tell your significant other? Or do they think
1:27:39
Speaker 1: that you're you're going to keep it from your significant other.
1:27:41
Speaker 2: I've talked about this with my friends, and they're always like, yeah,
1:27:45
Speaker 2: if there is a spouse or very long term partner involved,
1:27:48
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, don't tell anyone.
1:27:50
Speaker 3: Well, I know you're going to tell Peter.
1:27:51
Speaker 2: I know you're gonna tell like, but no one else
1:27:53
Speaker 2: because unless they tell me, don't tell anyone, even Peter,
1:27:57
Speaker 2: which doesn't really happen that often.
1:27:59
Speaker 3: But and I'm like, okay with I.
1:28:01
Speaker 1: Would appreciate it if you would not discuss anything that
1:28:04
Speaker 1: has been spoken about here with Peter. Peter, don't give
1:28:07
Speaker 1: a about this podcast. That's just truely appreciated. If we
1:28:13
Speaker 1: would follow that rule, Can we actually require that she
1:28:16
Speaker 1: does everything?
1:28:17
Speaker 4: I would like that.
1:28:19
Speaker 3: I'm stressed, but.
1:28:20
Speaker 4: No, actually, I so if if I'm saying something to
1:28:25
Speaker 4: a close friend of mine and they're in a relationship,
1:28:29
Speaker 4: I will never say anything to that person that I
1:28:31
Speaker 4: don't want the spouse to.
1:28:32
Speaker 3: Know, right, I assume the spouse is yes, I agree.
1:28:36
Speaker 4: I just like and when I say don't tell anybody this,
1:28:40
Speaker 4: I assume they're going to tell their significant other. Now,
1:28:43
Speaker 4: when it comes to people telling me something, I don't
1:28:48
Speaker 4: unless I won't hide information.
1:28:51
Speaker 1: Like so if this is in the visual podcast, so
1:29:00
Speaker 1: much visual.
1:29:01
Speaker 5: That Whitney does, like, we'll be speaking and she'll point
1:29:04
Speaker 5: at us and be like, yes, I'm like, say it,
1:29:07
Speaker 5: say it in your mouth.
1:29:10
Speaker 1: I want the audience to see the looking down. It
1:29:17
Speaker 1: is very expressive, but it's all visual. That's all visual.
1:29:23
Speaker 4: Like I wouldn't I wouldn't intentionally keep something from Laura,
1:29:27
Speaker 4: but I wouldn't offer it up.
1:29:29
Speaker 2: I gotta try this out. I'm gonna think of some
1:29:31
Speaker 2: juicy stuff to tell you. Then I'll Laura later this.
1:29:36
Speaker 1: If somebody tells me, I'm going to tell you this,
1:29:39
Speaker 1: and I'd really appreciate if you don't say anything to
1:29:41
Speaker 1: anyone else. Uh. I can't think of an instance that
1:29:45
Speaker 1: I've gone and told s J anyway, Yeah, because they say, uh,
1:29:51
Speaker 1: I'm telling I just assume you're gonna tell us Jay
1:29:53
Speaker 1: or something like that. Then like I may or may
1:29:55
Speaker 1: not tell her. Yeah, because unless they volunteered, unless they
1:29:59
Speaker 1: say it, I I assume that they mean what they say.
1:30:01
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm thinking like ninety nine percent of the
1:30:05
Speaker 4: stuff that people have told me where they've told me,
1:30:07
Speaker 4: don't tell anybody else. Laura wouldn't care today.
1:30:11
Speaker 3: That's true. It's like they don't care. Ye, So yeah,
1:30:14
Speaker 3: that's just true.
1:30:17
Speaker 1: It really helps meself. Like who the fuck is Jim Jobin? Yeah,
1:30:24
Speaker 1: I'm right here. I've been speaking to you this whole guy,
1:30:30
Speaker 1: Jim Athy Jobin right here. Better, it's all so bad,
1:30:38
Speaker 1: all right, I don't have a pH d. Well, that's
1:30:41
Speaker 1: just true because I lost that. So because of my
1:30:45
Speaker 1: gambling fucking problem, is probably not qualified to work at
1:30:48
Speaker 1: a universe.
1:30:50
Speaker 3: Or go to their meetings.
1:30:54
Speaker 1: God damn you both, all three of you. You've all
1:30:58
Speaker 1: just didn't point that's so it hurts. It just cuts
1:31:04
Speaker 1: me so deep.
1:31:09
Speaker 5: Anyway, So writer, you know the last thing I just
1:31:11
Speaker 5: want to say, And I think that this is just
1:31:13
Speaker 5: generally true for everybody, and I hope that you know
1:31:15
Speaker 5: it's something that hearing tough questions like this and thinking
1:31:18
Speaker 5: about people who have you know, done things they deeply regret,
1:31:21
Speaker 5: just remembering that none of us is our worst moment.
1:31:24
Speaker 5: I just think that's really important. And yes, there may
1:31:27
Speaker 5: still be consequences for that, and that may be true,
1:31:30
Speaker 5: and we have to deal with our problems and that's fair,
1:31:33
Speaker 5: and I'm not against that, but I do think that
1:31:35
Speaker 5: it's important that we all remember that none of us
1:31:38
Speaker 5: needs to be defined by our very worst moment. Every
1:31:40
Speaker 5: human is an ocean of experiences and contradictions. We can
1:31:44
Speaker 5: be a good person who has been kind to others
1:31:47
Speaker 5: and at times has done awful things that everybody hates
1:31:50
Speaker 5: about us and is wrong, and so all those things
1:31:53
Speaker 5: can coexist. We can't just be one thing, and that
1:31:57
Speaker 5: is difficult, and the human brain struggles sometimes to see
1:31:59
Speaker 5: any body as more than one. But we do have
1:32:02
Speaker 5: to embrace that complexity. We have to remember to apply
1:32:04
Speaker 5: the same standard to others that we would apply to ourselves,
1:32:07
Speaker 5: because I might look at you and say, hey, you
1:32:10
Speaker 5: tell me the worst thing you've ever done, and it
1:32:11
Speaker 5: might be something that I really deeply, mortally disagree with,
1:32:15
Speaker 5: and I may have very hard lines about how I
1:32:17
Speaker 5: see people who have done that thing that you're telling
1:32:19
Speaker 5: me about, But that would also not define you, and
1:32:22
Speaker 5: you would struggle with that and say, look, I regret
1:32:24
Speaker 5: that choice. I was young, I wasn't thinking, I was
1:32:26
Speaker 5: in a different place, I was unwell, and it's like,
1:32:29
Speaker 5: here's just make an excuses to hide who you really are.
1:32:31
Speaker 5: It's like, that's not fair, man, Like, I can change,
1:32:33
Speaker 5: Humans can change, and that doesn't necessarily mean that you
1:32:36
Speaker 5: have to be friends with this person forever. This may
1:32:39
Speaker 5: be something you say, it's just too much of a
1:32:41
Speaker 5: distraction for me, and I don't know that I can
1:32:43
Speaker 5: do well with this. And that's okay, too, friend, Like,
1:32:46
Speaker 5: if that's your truth, that's your truth. You're not a
1:32:48
Speaker 5: bad person for not being able to get over it.
1:32:50
Speaker 5: But you'd ask a sincere question. And I think your
1:32:53
Speaker 5: question invited us to weigh in on the complexity and
1:32:56
Speaker 5: help humanize your friend. It seems to be what you're
1:32:58
Speaker 5: asking us to do, and so I think we're all
1:32:59
Speaker 5: try trying to give our best shot to just helping
1:33:01
Speaker 5: you understand the nuance probably the way that we would
1:33:03
Speaker 5: think about it.
1:33:04
Speaker 1: Good luck with this. As we wrap up the show,
1:33:07
Speaker 1: we want to remind you could sign up at patreon
1:33:08
Speaker 1: dot com slash therapy. You can get our extended show
1:33:11
Speaker 1: ad free. A day earlier as well as enjoy our
1:33:13
Speaker 1: live chat discord community and our weekly deep dives, interviews,
1:33:17
Speaker 1: skill shares, research roundups, and rants and this week, who's
1:33:21
Speaker 1: your interview?
1:33:22
Speaker 4: Uh? It's your week?
1:33:24
Speaker 2: Is it?
1:33:25
Speaker 1: Yep?
1:33:25
Speaker 5: Because you gave me two. But I don't do that
1:33:27
Speaker 5: to you when I cover for you. So like when
1:33:31
Speaker 5: I cover for you, I put it back in the
1:33:32
Speaker 5: normal rotation. So when I've covered for you in the past,
1:33:35
Speaker 5: I just take your week and then I do my
1:33:37
Speaker 5: normal next week and we go right into the rotation.
1:33:39
Speaker 1: I don't punt.
1:33:41
Speaker 5: I'm just saying, you know, because you've been bailed out
1:33:43
Speaker 5: a few times, and I believe I've set the standards.
1:33:45
Speaker 4: So well, regular rotation. Sonny boy, guess what your episode
1:33:50
Speaker 4: just got bumped up.
1:33:52
Speaker 1: I've been waiting for that one, noting a good one.
1:33:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is a good one.
1:33:55
Speaker 1: Their producer interviews.
1:33:56
Speaker 5: Get to know our listener community in uh only the
1:34:00
Speaker 5: way that Nick's random ask questions.
1:34:01
Speaker 4: I'm just going to do this right now. Thanks, I'm
1:34:03
Speaker 4: gonna forget if I don't.
1:34:05
Speaker 5: While you're doing that, I will announce that we've got
1:34:07
Speaker 5: some new therap pals. And I was gonna say, Whitney,
1:34:11
Speaker 5: who's not the Thera party, but she doesn't.
1:34:13
Speaker 1: Have Sorry, I have it now, do you go for it?
1:34:16
Speaker 1: Who's under therapals?
1:34:17
Speaker 3: And her new therapeals are Sean Lawler and snug Mochie
1:34:21
Speaker 3: ice Cream.
1:34:21
Speaker 1: I love it. Welcome, and we've got some new therapods.
1:34:24
Speaker 1: Who's new to the Therapod.
1:34:25
Speaker 3: Showitty Bitty Chicken Farmer.
1:34:28
Speaker 1: I like that. That's cute, very cute.
1:34:31
Speaker 5: Anytime you can get us to laugh. That's fun because
1:34:33
Speaker 5: I get to say those therapod names every month, so yeah,
1:34:35
Speaker 5: that one's easy to pronounce. We also want to thank
1:34:38
Speaker 5: the benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly pro therapy dieheards who
1:34:41
Speaker 5: love you all so much they give till it hurts,
1:34:43
Speaker 5: the therap partners, dirty be and pick it. And we
1:34:47
Speaker 5: want to especially think our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded
1:34:49
Speaker 5: Illuminati members of our fan club. The therap PRODUCERA wait
1:34:52
Speaker 5: a minute, it was your week anyway, dude? I released
1:34:54
Speaker 5: one last week. Wow, you build me out two weeks.
1:34:56
Speaker 4: No no no, no no no yes, all of mine have
1:35:00
Speaker 4: already been set. They've already they're already in there. Yeah
1:35:03
Speaker 4: you missed a week, Yeah, then you base So then
1:35:05
Speaker 4: I bumped mine up.
1:35:06
Speaker 1: So then I took over the next week.
1:35:08
Speaker 4: Yes, so then you regular week, so you're keeping me on.
1:35:11
Speaker 1: A double when I fill like, okay, all right, all
1:35:16
Speaker 1: right whatever. Their producers Jake Schneider, Meyra, Robert Brownie, Junior, Mint,
1:35:21
Speaker 1: Smitty Scoop, Ben Don, Judy Schneider, Charles, Malia, Leon Casa,
1:35:26
Speaker 1: Mason Miller and Macy, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller,
1:35:30
Speaker 1: Samy Scoop, Ben Stanley's Lap in your Face, Sarah Smith,
1:35:33
Speaker 1: Adam Hathaway, Builer t, Mike Helm, Paris, Samantha Cone, Darren Cunningham,
1:35:37
Speaker 1: Live Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Matt, Lisa Tangmin
1:35:40
Speaker 1: heyo Oscar Swan, ros A, Sonny Boy, Slipping Guy, I'm
1:35:43
Speaker 1: a fucker, Sandra mcwoffle Dan Martin, hen Marie Andrew Langmead,
1:35:47
Speaker 1: Emma Kine, our intern and Elena.
1:35:50
Speaker 4: And if you would like to end this episode uncut
1:35:53
Speaker 4: and unedited, and wouldn't you and enjoy our sponsaneous side projects,
1:35:57
Speaker 4: go to patreon dot com slash therapy and thank you
1:36:00
Speaker 4: for supporting mental health.
1:36:01
Speaker 1: That's all the time we get for this week. Session.
1:36:02
Speaker 5: I want to thank our landlords, Matt and Mattingly's ice
1:36:05
Speaker 5: Cream Social Podcast and thanks to those of you who contributed.
1:36:08
Speaker 1: To our show today. We really appreciate it. Remember pod
1:36:12
Speaker 1: therapy is and something to keep all to yourself. Share
1:36:14
Speaker 1: this episode of the world. Tag us on the socials
1:36:16
Speaker 1: when you do. You can find us at pot therapy
1:36:18
Speaker 1: Guys on Instagram, threads and Twitter, slash pod therapy on Facebook,
1:36:22
Speaker 1: and don't forget about all the extra goodies at patreon
1:36:24
Speaker 1: dot com slash therapy.
1:36:26
Speaker 4: Do you want to submit a question to the show,
1:36:28
Speaker 4: ask anonymously at pod therapy dot net or email us
1:36:31
Speaker 4: at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com. I'm the Exchangement.
1:36:34
Speaker 1: I am Jim jobins are you this Jim Job?
1:36:39
Speaker 4: Thanks so, we'll see you for your appointments next week.
1:36:41
Speaker 1: Nobody ever asks how Jim Job? How not? How reason don't?
1:36:46
Speaker 3: I don't ask where he is either.
1:36:50
Speaker 1: They forget to invite him. Goodbye, everybody, Bye,