Latest / APD Pod Squad / Season 2, Episode 21; Interim Chief Jackie Stepp, Capt. Evan Coward, SPO II Carrie Lee with Ayden and Carson, participants in the JPA, and the History Minute with Hannah Silberman

Transcript

Season 2, Episode 21; Interim Chief Jackie Stepp, Capt. Evan Coward, SPO II Carrie Lee with Ayden and Carson, participants in the JPA, and the History Minute with Hannah Silberman · APD Pod Squad

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is the APD Pod Squad.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Rick Rice, and in this episode, Interim Chief Jackie Stepp lays out the APD organizational changes being implemented.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Some name changes, division realignment, and the return of the housing authority team.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: With June being National Camping Month, hardcore camper Captain Evan Coward joins me.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'll ask him the tough questions like Do you prefer your marshmallows lightly roasted or burnt to a crisp?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: The Junior Police Academy just wrapped up a fun week, and two of the participants will join me to discuss Aiden and Karsten, along with Senior Police Officer Carrie Lee.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: And Hannah Silberman returns for another History Minute as we go back to July 3rd, 1951, in what was described as the worst traffic in Asheville's history.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, we're no strangers to traffic jams here, so this must have been a doozy.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's all coming up on season two, episode 21 of the APD Pod Squad.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Interim Chief Jackie Step joins me now.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Tan resting ready, back from vacation.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Rick.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: You told me that was your first one in years?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: A couple years, yes, two years.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's too long.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: 100% right about that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to get another one on your books pretty soon, right?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we had we had a blast.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was fun.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: You could go down to the beach.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: We went to the beach and did a little uh deep sea fishing, and uh it definitely changed uh the way we did, or I guess I should say did not get back into the ocean after that.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds like there's a story there.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, just uh when you pull out that many sharks and various sizes and and kinds and stingrays, you kind of think twice about getting back in.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a whole lot of these things in here, right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's sharp teeth and all the things.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: What was the biggest one you caught?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't get one on the boat.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um most we could pick up, they were three to four feet, and you could get the hook out of their mouth.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: But this one was probably six and a half, seven feet, so we just had to cut the string and and let it go with the hook in the mouth.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you didn't go in swimming, you say, not long after that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: You just decided just to like, you know, I'm gonna go to the pool.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we uh funny enough, we did go to the beach after that, and we did attempt to get in, and then within probably twenty minutes, the lifeguard called everybody in because there were three sharks out swimming close by.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So then from that point on, the kids were like, let's go to the lazy river.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Good idea.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I got you in here today to talk about some well some organizational updates and some changes coming, uh things that people are going to see, some things they're not necessarily going to see, that are going to be visible.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just start at the beginning, because most of these go into effect in the next week or so.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Where did it begin, the thought process for this?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: What led us to making these changes we're going to talk about?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's a great question.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think first and foremost, the leadership team here, you know, strives to be forward-thinking and how we can be more effective and more efficient.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, we began to rebuild.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, we just released, they're being released, our 18, our largest class, uh, into patrol.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that give uh gave us an opportunity to sit back and realize where we could be more effective.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's kind of where it came from, and part of that has been probably the biggest change is two things, putting the community resource officers out from their own individual district and into patrol, integrating them within patrol districts, which really is what we did prior to 2020.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: 2020, we implemented this community engagement division really out of necessity, because remember, over those next couple of years, we lost 136 police officers.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we did that out of necessity, but the organizational philosophy around community policing has never really changed.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: But what we saw as a leadership team was over the last six years, we've kind of funneled those responsibilities into one singular division.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So as we restaff, we rebuild, it gives us an opportunity to make sure we are really uh focused on community policing as an organizational philosophy and not funnel it into one singular division.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell You know, you've been doing more with less for so long.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, now that we're building our ranks back, this is great news, but how do we maximize all this talent out there in the streets?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're exactly right.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the the community resource officers we have now, you know, they've got a certain level of subject matter expertise that frankly were such a young police agency anymore because we lost so many years of experience when we lost all the officers over the last few years that some of the new people, when you say community policing, don't know exactly what that means.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So uh our hope is twofold, be more effective, more efficient, but then also to uh get these officers back out on the streets, embedded in patrol, to where they can mentor and teach uh officers how to community police and what that really looks like in terms of long-term problem solving.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell You know, a lot of our younger officers are literally learning the community that they're working in, too.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: I've talked with some of them.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: They're not from here.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So they need to learn not just the streets and how to get around, but really the ins and outs and what are the dynamics.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell That's right.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the and the community resource officers will be able to introduce them to really key stakeholders and community members throughout their respective uh geographic areas.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus There's a lot of different like vibes in a town like Asheville that's not that big geographically, really, but uh there's there's ethnic areas.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's uh areas that are downtown has its own vibe.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get your suburbs, not suburbs, but your housing areas, you know, where people are just that's a vibe.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: West Asheville is a vibe.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: The housing authority properties are a vibe.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: All these different things you've got to learn and how to learn how to work within them.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Very a very unique city, uh small city, big city attitude.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh really looking forward to getting them back out there.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, right now we have four community resource officers, but we only have three patrol districts because we're not quite ready to open that fourth district up because uh we don't have quite the staffing we need to do that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so what we're excited about is a new opportunity for our fourth community resource officer to be assigned to what we would say are the high traffic zones.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it gives a little extra attention, if you will, to Tunnel Road, downtown, and to Haywood Road, where the community generates a lot of our calls for service, uh nuisance type crime, things like that.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Good news in the staffing front, though, uh that most recent BLET graduating class is completing their field training, and most of them are going solo as we speak.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, this week and into next.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: We've got more of those officers out there.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know we've gotten a couple of lateral transfers.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are swearing in two lateral transfers tomorrow, and we've got two more uh in process.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So couldn't be more excited about being able to rebuild.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think we're doing it stronger and really trying to be more effective, you know, right out of the gate.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we're not far away from our next BLET graduating class.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: That should be a month or so or two months away, right?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: They just completed their last BLET exam, so now they're uh doing some additional work while they wait on the state exam, and there are nine of those in that class.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So this is all good news.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Great news.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Along with the organizational changes, and let's talk about those.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: This is more good news, more officers in the streets doing good things.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the community engagement division, some of the officers within that are still doing the same thing, but let's call this an enhanced version with more support.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the community resource officers are going back out into the districts.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: They'll still they're still going to be called the exact same thing.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're still gonna be doing the same thing.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if they went to neighborhood meetings before, they were all assigned a geographic area before.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're all gonna be assigned a geographic area still.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the community shouldn't see any difference, frankly, with the exception of enhanced police services, because they're gonna start seeing more engagement.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Our hope is from patrol and those community resource officers bringing those beat officers in to meet those community members and really introduce the community policing philosophy.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So what are you hearing from the community right now, out in the different neighborhoods, as far as is it working?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, let's keep doing more of that, or let's do something different?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: What I hear from the community, especially as we've talked about this kind of publicly, is they didn't want to lose their community resource officer.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't want to lose that liaison.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we've just had to really reassure everybody that is not going to change, that they still have somebody attending every neighborhood meeting, really being that liaison, working with the community to long-term problem solve.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I think that this will enhance our community policing philosophy and services across organization, again, instead of in one singular division.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: That division will be renamed and kind of restructured a little bit as well.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of kind of a new division, a new unit, let's talk about the Housing Authority agreement that we're entering into with some designated officers for that.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, again, this all stems from uh our ability to recruit and retain and restaff, rebuild.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that organizational change, if you will, is we're able to bring back some of our specialty teams.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, we just brought back our traffic safety team uh at the beginning of this year.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then as we restaff, we're able to look at what else can we bring back since we're not quite ready to open up that fourth district yet.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So uh a big part of what we wanted to do is uh kind of reinvigorate our housing team that we once had many years ago.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but again, as part of 2020, we had to collapse a lot of specialty teams just really out of necessity.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have the staff.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but now we are we've signed an MOU with housing authority, and we've got six officers and a supervisor uh getting ready to start uh a new housing unit.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's important to mention too uh one of the big reasons, the big reason for this new unit is they wanted us there.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: This comes from them.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: They do want us there, but there's also a need, Rick.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime we've did any type of uh initiative, a short-term initiative in any of our public housing areas, we have seen that it's not the residents there committing the crime.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's people coming uh from outside into those neighborhoods, really taking advantage of the vulnerability within those.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, they want us there, they want police presence, uh, but we need to be there.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Our crime statistics and our data, you remember we're very data-driven, tell us that that's where we need to be.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, the residents want to be able to lay their head in a bed, let their kids sleep in a bed and not on the floor in fear of gunshots blazing through their apartment complex.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that that's our goal is to reduce crime and improve the quality of life in those areas.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Interim Chief Jackie Stepp joins me now talking about some organizational changes that get underway soon.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I guess most of these are basically this week, like the July 4th, is kind of the begin-to-begin for some of these.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell That's right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Start of a new pay period.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to roll everything out kind of this weekend and into next week.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the st- is this the start of our financial year as well, too, July?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is this all kind of coincidence or just kind of on purpose?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really on purpose, but it really more ties to those cadets coming out to a solo status.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: What else do we have that we can look forward to as far as the organizational changes?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like I said, the community engagement division, a lot of people, when we do a name change, they think that it's going away.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going away.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: The community resource officers are being out uh being reassigned to the patrol districts, but we are renaming it to the specialized operations division, and they're going to house the HACA, our housing team.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we're going to bring our traffic safety unit under that umbrella instead of in patrol.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're really looking forward to there is because that unit or that division also houses our school resource officers, we're really looking at a way to better align our traffic safety unit and our school resource officers to, you know, improve and increase safety around schools, uh, roadway safety.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: But then what can we do in terms of educational campaigns with students, teen drivers, with our traffic safety unit being closer to our school resource officers?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Do they still do driver's ed anymore?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that back in the day?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Did you I took driver's ed.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they still do.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I see the the private ones around town.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, driver in training, give them a little space type thing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know if the schools still did that.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: They still do driver training.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people may have seen this.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you're aware of this because of your position, but they put out a survey for the permanent chief of police encouraging people to cast their input members at the community, members of our department.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So where does that stand right now?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is the city that handles this, this is the city manager that handles this.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know we've gotten a lot of inquiries.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Falling back on that community survey, you know, I took the opportunity.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a lot of our neighborhoods that we have contacts with.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we sent that out to all of our neighborhoods because I think the community feedback and having the opportunity to have input in the next permanent chief is so important.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that survey is now closed, and then uh we'll probably start in the next few weeks entering into, you know, opening up for an announcement.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the city manager plans to announce a permanent chief around mid-September.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one thing I've seen the community mention like is like it's a negative, because I just don't think they understand the process to get to the position of chief of police to be qualified for that.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: They seem to look at the turnover that occurs because someone's going to be chief for two, three, four, five years.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: No one's chief for twenty years because they wouldn't be qualified like soon enough.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we have so many chiefs of police, why can't they keep them?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't they get the there seems to be just some confusion out there about that.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Yeah, I think the the average well, particularly here in Asheville, the average tenure of a chief is not very long, uh, as I make number 13 in my tenure.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: But y yeah, historically you don't see a chief hold a position for 20 years.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, you used to see them hold them for seven, eight, ten years, and you really just don't see that too often anymore either.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of a, you know, kind of five-year window, if you will.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, if you just look at uh our command staff, for example, you look at the people that would say qualify for it.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: You get your captains and DCs and things of that nature, most of them are only, say, I don't know, two, three, four, six years from retirement themselves.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell, right.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: It takes you that long to be eligible.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: To get there.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a big reason that somebody, if they get to that level and they, you know, want to be the chief, it might only last two or three years or four.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell, Jr.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: A 30-year career is a long career.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then to extend it beyond that, you know, is it's sometimes challenging.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And those 30 years don't really add up to 30 years because of time off that gets added to your kind of plan, to your number.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes it kind of difficult for people to be chief for long.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're used to watching Andy Griffith.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I think they see Andy, and he's like in charge of Mayberry for you know 20 years.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, this is this is not uh Mount Airy.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It is definitely not Mount Air.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we're continuing with the RTIC tours.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: I know you've been giving those to members of the community.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: How's that been going?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think the tours have been going well.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually surprised at how well attended they've been.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're booked through at least the end of July now, if not even further into August.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I just couldn't be more excited about the community feedback and the interest from the community to come in and go through those tours.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we've also started our community stakeholder policy work group that we've got a eight or so community members helping us draft and write the policy around the Real-Time Intelligence Center.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And those meetings are going very well.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's been a lot of skepticism by the community about the RTIC, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: The Real-Time Intelligence Center.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: But we're certainly going out of our way to answer every question and be as thorough as possible.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love how you're doing it with the tours.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's only like what, max four people or five people?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: We do four people because we want to make sure that we have the opportunity to have a meaningful conversation and really dive into any questions.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we don't limit the questions that people ask.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: We want them to ask whatever's on their mind.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: How much longer are those going to take place?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: We'll take place until we feel like the uh community isn't signing up anymore or there's not a need.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but we will always have the availability.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing bi-weekly now.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I foresee once the RTIC gets fully functional, which is still probably spring uh next year, that I'd like to at least go back and continue to hold at least a monthly uh so that they can come in and see it fully operational.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Interim Chief Jackie Stepp, thank you so much.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know you just just got back from vacation, jumping back into things.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate you taking time with us today.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Rick.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Captain Evan Coward joins me now.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Captain, welcome back.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for having me.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Although, you know, last time you were Lieutenant Evan Coward, the last time you were in here, that was uh about a year or so ago, right?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, sir.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Been promoted since then and now Captain Coward.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So hey, we haven't said so.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Congratulations.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_06: It's been fun.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, last time we talked, uh you were in here with uh Jeffrey Rollins.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: That was Lieutenant Rollins.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about your bicycle ride to the Capitol, uh, something of which we just kind of celebrated that anniversary here just about a month ago.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_06: We did.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: The officer's memorial ride.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever get the itch to do that again?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_06: Every year.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_06: Um hoping before I retire I can do it again.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that'll be fun, right?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know that we had some representatives that went up, uh the Silbermans.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we uh were able to identify some officers from uh quite a while back who died in the line of duty, and we added them to the wall.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_06: And it's always an honor to have someone go up from your agency to represent you.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell And that was I think those deaths were about a hundred years ago, almost, I believe.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: What the nineteen thirties, I think they were, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's that's great for them and their family.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: The reason we got you in here today, because June is National Camping Month, and nobody is crazier for camping that I know than you.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Every year you take an annual trip, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's right.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: You take your full annual leave, which is what, two weeks?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, sir.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you go camping.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: We leave.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of camping?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: So there's apparently there is a big discussion on the interwebs these days on what is considered proper camping.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_06: So you're right.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_06: The definition of camping is very subjective.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_06: And uh over the years it's meant different things to me.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_06: And I I think that's one of the wonderful things about it, is it's something that you can really make it your own.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_06: It started with me with my family growing up.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_06: We would uh go to the Smokies and uh camp in a tent as a family, and you know, Rain or Shy, we were together enjoying the elements.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_06: And uh really started there and I was in the Boy Scouts for years and uh a lot of backpacking, learn how to you know, do your basic survival stuff, uh uh and then really started to expand on that.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_06: I've done a lot of solo stuff and uh uh as a young man I camped a lot alone.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um I really enjoy solitude and the peace that comes from just meeting your basic needs every day and and uh got into ultralight stuff, you know, backpacking long distances, and then got into uh you mentioned uh Lieutenant Rollins and uh our our cycling exploits.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_06: Got into bikepacking quite a bit, uh, which is just uh an absolute blast.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um that can be anything from just a day trip carrying enough gear to to enjoy yourself for a nice long ride, or it can be multi-day.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_06: We've done uh a couple more multi-day events where you ride upwards of a hundred miles a day.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_06: Uh self-supported, you know, you ride through a town, stop at restaurant or gas station, fuel up, and just keep riding.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_06: And then when you get tired, pull off in the woods and sleep.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's very basic.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_06: Um the the day-to-day stuff in our lives that are constant inputs that sometimes you forget even exist just kind of melt away.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_06: So we've I've I've done uh pretty much every iteration of camping that there is.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_06: Now, uh, you know, I'm in my mid-40s, I've got my family, and uh we we got a little teardrop camper we pull now.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_06: And and and it's hard for me sometimes to say, hey, we're going camping when it's really comfortable and it's indoors technically.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_06: And uh but uh I tell you what, don't knock it.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_06: If you can get somewhere to enjoy yourself in that atmosphere and have a nice little campfire, it's worth it.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell But I think that's the thing too.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's different types of camping.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you on your own, maybe a little more primitive, take the family, a little more of the glamping.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so when I was growing up, probably very similar to how you got started, we did a lot of camping growing up.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the big canvas tent.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, those big, heavy duty.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, no, this thing was huge.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: It fit a family of four.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_06: They're heavy.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're dude, big and heavy, and they only stay waterproof for so long.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we started with that, and then and my family didn't have much money growing up, so this was to us this was a big vacation, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you'd pack the beans and the weenies and all those things.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then we got a pop-up camper, a Coleman, a Coleman pop-up, and we started taking that to the KOA campgrounds and doing different things.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that was as far along in the camping as I got uh as a young man.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then you kind of go off, you do all these things, and you kind of stop camping because life gets in the way.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then, I guess this would have been about maybe 15, 20 years ago, you can't call it camping, but we would stay in the infield of the Daytona 500, Daytona International Speedway, with a luxury RV.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what my wife considers camping.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: She says, if we're ever going camping again, we have to have one of these.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now you're talking about the slide-outs, and I mean, I I've had apartments that weren't as nice as some of these things, but you're still outdoors a little more than often, and really enjoyed that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_06: It's true.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_06: Camping is in the eye of the beholder.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_06: The point of it, the end result is whatever you want it to be.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_06: For me and for my family now, it's just eliminating as many extraneous inputs as possible.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um for for an amount of time.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_06: You know, you can't completely escape life.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_06: Uh it will still be there when you get back, and you always will have the responsibilities of being an adult.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_06: And that's fine.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_06: But if you're able to limit that for a little while.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_06: And park yourself next to like a snow swollen stream.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_06: Um when you stop and and try to listen to your heartbeat, that's what you hear.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_06: That's really nice.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's the ultimate reset.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: It really is.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean and you like you say you're not doing it uh three hundred and sixty-five days a year.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're not Jeremiah Johnson going out there and into the wilds forever.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can just do it for a little while, it rebalances things, right?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know, and and it goes for for everybody, but really in in the profession that I've chosen, I try to be really intentional about uh finding the the yin to the yang.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_06: Something that's the complete opposite of what my brain is having to put up with every day.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: So this most recent trip, where did you go?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_06: Uh we actually went up to the upper peninsula of Michigan, up on the shore of Lake Superior, which is just an absolute treasure if you haven't been up there.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't, but I have friends that are youpers that live there uh growing up.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_06: They're now very proud people.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, the youpress.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes, they love it up there, they know what they've got, and they're so gosh darn nice.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_06: I've met so many people up there that are helpful and kind and uh will will show you the treasures of their area.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_06: Parking it on Lake Superior, going for a swim.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_06: You know, that water is so cold.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_06: Even during the summer, it's wonderful.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I know about that because growing up in Buffalo, you would know the Great Lakes.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a little kinship with the people that lived there because we have a lot in common.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Snow in the winter, swimming in cold lakes and things of that nature.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: A lot more populated in Buffalo than the Upper Peninsula, of course.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's there?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is it Mackinac Island?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is that one of them that's right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Mackinac.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard how beautiful that is and I've seen pictures.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you they don't they don't let you take cars there.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_06: You take the ferry and you walk around or you ride a bike and they have some horses.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um it's a beautiful day.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, the uh Michigan's just a beautiful place.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_06: My wife's family's from up there, so that's kind of how I I got pointed that direction.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_06: But we have we've driven to Colorado six times now for these summer trips, just to find somewhere cool and higher in elevation to spend some of that summer time.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_06: You know, I grew up in Asheville, grew up in the southeast.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_06: I uh the summers get get hot and muggy and you just want to go somewhere.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's different elements you're contending with here.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's no cool nights, put on a sweater and get the campfire going.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: There is make sure you locate where the uh the fire ants are and don't put your tent on there.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the more obstacles you're dealing with down here.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_06: That's right.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: I got some questions here.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Some camping questions.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we've kind of already covered question number one, which is I was gonna say camping or glamping.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it sounds like you're kind of open to both.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_06: I am.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_06: I I used to be a purist, just kind of like how I am about my cycling, but I'm opening my eyes.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So time and a place.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe if you're just going for a weekend, it's maybe it's a little more preventative.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_06: I don't think there's a wrong way to do it.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's just this or that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_06: Make yourself happy.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: So campground or woods, just like somewhere you know out in the wild.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Powell Preference?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_06: Woods.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Woods.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_06: For sure.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hard to find those places anymore, though.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, they are.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_06: The good thing is, and I mean this is a personal opinion of mine.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_06: I think the good thing is you have to do a little bit of work to find it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_06: Part of it is I mean, a lot of it to me is the journey.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_06: I love backpacking and like I said, bikepacking, you know, doing some work to find that solitude makes it a little bit more worth it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Captain Evan Coward is with me.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about camping as June is National Camping Month.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: So once again, we've kind of discussed all of these options.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Camper, tent, or under the stars, if you had your preference.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_06: Older Evan versus younger Evan.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_06: Um I've done a lot of time where I would carry as little as possible roll-up in a ground cloth and just sleep.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_06: You know, hammock camping.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_06: I'm a huge fan of hammock camping.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: That lends itself to the next question, which was cot hammock, ground, or blow-up mattress.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_06: Hammock every day of the week.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_06: And once I get that thing put up between two trees that aren't too big but not too small, and a little bit of wind blows, they will rock you to sleep.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have one that's a hammock that does it's not one of the ones you take camping with you, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's not with the vinyl ones.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those big, I think it's called a Polly's Island hammock.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's the big kind of yarn-ish rope.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's big sucker, right?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I can string that up on my side patio, which is uh screened as well.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the perfect time is the fall.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Summer's fine, right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Nap time.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So on like a Saturday afternoon, it might be 55 or 60, right?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: You've maybe got a football game on in the background, you keep that low, you hear the trees rustling.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as the neighborhood kids aren't making too much of a racket, I can fall asleep for hours out there.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's the best.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I get the hammock thing.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, get up off the ground.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um we've got a local, don't we have a hammock manufacture?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Who is it, Eno?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Who is it?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Eagle's Nest Outfitters.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's so we have a local they manufacture, they do the whole thing too.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's what I carry.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_06: They're great.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, right here.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so bug repellent, lather up, or citronella candles, like with tiki torches, which is I don't use either one.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_06: Uh really?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_06: You just go all natural, huh?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_06: Man, I and I always always get welts and I always get torn up, and I go, man, I really should put something on.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_06: I'm really bad at it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_06: I'm bad about that with sunscreen too.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_06: I don't I know I'm gonna pay one day.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_06: I just usually I offer myself up as a meal, usually.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: How about this one?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: No shower or jump in the creek or the lake nearby.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, creek or lake.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's not so much for the stink, it's just a really fun time.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_06: You get halfway through a hot mountain bike ride and you just want to go jump in the lake.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you need to.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: But you take a bar of soap with you once in a while.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: So here's here's a category.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Things you've been bitten by.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yes or no, things you've been bitten by.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is uh gonna be a yes.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Mosquitoes.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_06: Of course, yes.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yellow jackets.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Spiders.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_06: Ticks.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Snake?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_06: Not yet.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Snapping turtle.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: That was a wild card question.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_06: No, almost with a snapping turtle.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to be careful.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_06: I've gone to battle with a couple snapping turtles.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_06: Those things are ornery.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you don't see them if you jump in the water.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: We had some snapping turtles in my back.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: I had a canal when I lived in Charleston, and we had regular painted turtles, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: A whole bunch of them.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: But a few snapping turtles.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: So you had to be careful when you were near the shore, because they are ornery.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_06: They are.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_06: They are.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_06: They're fun.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: So wildlife you've seen up close.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Up close now, not like way in the distance.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Deer.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: How close?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_06: Like I don't know, five feet.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: They walk me up to my driveway every day.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I can see them see around here and jump.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_06: Bunch of them just don't care about whether you're there or not.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Eagle.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_06: 20 yards.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's pretty close.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're usually up in the air, I would guess, right?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Bear.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_06: I almost T-boned a bear at Bent Creek like six months ago, riding a bike.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_06: There's quite a bit of them out there.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_06: Way closer than I ever wanted to be to a black bear.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_06: Now black bear or grizzly bear.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: So black bear are they tame.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're they're like basically they're like your neighbors around here.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_06: I I try I I don't I don't want to go pet one because I know they're wild.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, don't pet.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: But but grizzlies, that's a whole nother land.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_06: I was in Glacier National Park and we came across a bear that the ranger, when we got back down the trails, convinced it was a cinnamon-colored they call a black bear that they do come cinnamon colored.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_06: I am not convinced.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_06: Uh we came around the corner and there was a very large brown bear.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_06: And uh we turned around and went the other way.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_06: Sure.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um and he went the other way too.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_06: So I don't think it was it wasn't like a super close encounter, but that's closer than I wanted to be.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Close enough.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned Bent Creek.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I like you go riding out there.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I go running out there.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: I go I do some trail runs.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: So one time I'm on one of the trail runs that's kind of deep in there, and a deer comes running right in front of me, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: But he looked like he was running away from something.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I he kind of surprised me because when you're trail running, you're looking down because you're making sure not to trip.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying not to trip.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: You got roots and rocks and all these things.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: So there might be all this wildlife around you, you don't really know all the time, right?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of this your head is on a constant rotation.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: So this deer runs by me, not like he was just lottied on.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of stop and I look and I saw quickly why he was running, and it was a bear.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't even think bear cared about deer, but maybe it was just a territory thing or something.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_06: But bear are opportunists.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: He might have been hungry or just didn't know.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_06: A hungry bear will do all sorts of things.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he had a personal beef with him.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: You just never know either.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so back to the list wildlife you've seen up close.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh porcupine.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because that would not be fun.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_06: No, that's a good idea.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_06: Imagine picking quills out.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_06: We have we have two dogs we take everywhere with us, and um, that's always been a concern.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_06: Stick their nose places they don't belong.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll throw their quills at you.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Skunk?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_06: I've seen a skunk, but I've I've not had the the experience that you uh think about with skunks.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Armadillo.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Which is basically a possum with armor.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's an armor.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_06: Essentially.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I hit one of those with a car in Joplin, Missouri one time driving.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: It bounced and it just rolled like a rolly pulley.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_06: That's slick.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, no.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: He just rolled.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, tuck and roll, and then he moved on.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_06: Took it like a champ.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're getting those starting to move into North Carolina now.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a few of those armadillos.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: We can expect to see a little more of those.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Coyote or Wolf.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, coyote ran right by my back door the other day.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: More likely here than camping, I think.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_06: I've heard wolves, but I've not seen them.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: How about a fox?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, foxes all the time.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Bigfoot?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_06: No comment.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to say if I've seen Sasquatch.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to say I haven't.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_06: If he hears this, he'll be mad.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's true.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he's listening.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: He's a regular to the APD pot squad.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: He listens all the time.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Any other animals?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Any animal stories, close encounters?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_06: We've gotten a little closer than we want to be to a moose.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_06: They're huge.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_06: They are, and they're you know unpredictable.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_06: They're enormous.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you actually get close enough to a moose, you'll basically be looking at their stomach.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Their legs are just they're like five foot legs.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're all legs.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, a lot of snakes, but nothing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nothing like that.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, okay.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_06: So animal encounter, uh mountain biking in Arizona on a uh on a training out there, and uh it was a night ride.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_06: And these guys were taking me to show me around their their part of the woods, and we're just pedaling down this trail, and in my headlamp, I see all the bikes in front of me bunny hopping at the same place on the trail.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_06: I get there, and there's a large diamondback rattlesnake on the warm trail.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_06: And everybody just bunny hops over him on that like that's a regular thing.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_06: It's like I and then they told me about uh dodging the killer beast worms, and uh I just felt like maybe I was safer if I came back here to do my smarter.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Probably.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: I saw a rattlesnake at uh I was hiking up at Max Patch and it was doing the same thing.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was out there getting sunny and we just kind of gave them birth.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I got attacked by a whole, I don't know what you call them, a gaggle of hornets or whatever it was.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: I hiked up uh Cold Mountain about uh fifteen years ago.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I must have kicked a rock and it was one of those, you know, in the ground in three of us, and I was kind of in the lead, and all of a sudden I just start getting attacked in my legs and I'm running and they just keep at they're mean.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_06: Cold Mountain isn't somewhere you want to go into NFL shots.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, we were at half we were halfway up too.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: We were about four or five miles up, and so that's not the kind of place.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thankfully, I'm not allergic, so it did it, it just hurt.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And we had to cancel the trip anyway because we have massive thunderstorms and we had to come back.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: So the plan was to go up and camp and then come back the next day.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_06: If you never been on Cold Mountain, it is a very wild place.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't make it the following year all the way to the top.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't camp that time.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: We just hiked and came back.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: But that particular time we were hoping to camp.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: We had the beef jerky, we had the bourbon, we had everything we needed.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: I even took Highland Cold Mountain beer.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: I took three beers.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_06: Just for the irony.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just for the irony, and I have a photo of that of us we finally toasted on top with Cold Mountain, which I wanted to do.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_06: This one from a hang hammock up there many times.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's beautiful up there, just beautiful.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so when it comes to eating in the wild, cook stove or open fire?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_06: Cook stove for me.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I like the control.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not a huge open fire guy.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_06: Uh campfires are okay.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_06: I've done so much time in places where fire danger is real that I just kind of fully transitioned to stove camping.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, if you get creative, you know, you can heck, you can bake bread out in the middle of the middle.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, you can.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: How about uh if you had a choice, roasting weenies or making s'mores?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_06: S'mores for real.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Big fan of the s'mores.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: The problem though, when you're deep like in the woods and you're making s'mores, they make such a mess.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: You better have some nearby to wash your hands off with because the marshmallows and the chocolate.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost it's a sacrifice you're willing to make.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, the ants are going to become an en masse though if you drop that stuff on the ground.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got to be careful.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: You have just got to be careful.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so uh last question about camping.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Favorite camping activities are we talking I know I know you love the mountain biking.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Are we talking like a hike?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Are we talking fishing?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Are we what are we talking?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Favorite thing to do when you're camping, besides just absorbing nature.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_06: I think our our number one go-to is just to grab the dogs and go for a nice long walk.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_06: Party pace, you get to enjoy it, look around.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_06: But uh my wife is uh an avid birder, and so you know, we spend a lot of time just trying to I try to keep up with her on trying to figure out what the bird is before she does.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_06: I always fail, but you know, it's it's just about existing and being mindful about where you are.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_06: And yeah, I like mountain biking and it's fun, but when you're moving that quick, yeah, you're moving quick, you're not really mindful, which is kind of part of it too, is the escape by really like just observing and absorbing the peace that around that that surrounds you when you're camping.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Have you had a signature zen moment like in in all your camping adventures?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was the one time that you peaked like this summit and looked out.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_06: Second or third time we drove to Colorado, we got up to a little spot outside of Lidville, and uh it's a really small poor service campground on the side of a creek that only becomes big during the snow melt and is at the base of a 13,000-foot peak, and uh popped out the first morning into the tent and looked up at that peak, and there's a family mountain goats up there you can see.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_06: Um you can't hear anything but the what it is essentially a river right at your feet.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_06: And you can't even hear your own brain.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_06: And so you're just completely locked in, and that's a zen moment.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: But those mountains are different out there.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's very rocky, they're the rocky mountains.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: Ours are very green.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_06: And I would like to argue that John Denver was correct.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_06: Unlike uh the quote from Devin Denver.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll ruminate on that as we uh wrap things up with Captain Evan Coward as we celebrate June as National Camping Month.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Have you planned next year's trip already, or is that just something you do over over time?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, where are we going next?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I mean, I hate to be the dead horse, but I'm pretty sure we're gonna alternate and just go back to Colorado this summer and see what we can get into out there.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you find what you like.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_06: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm talking about.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Captain Coward, thank you so much.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, sir.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Joining me now, Senior Police Officer 2, Kerry Lee, and two participants in our current junior police academy from left to right, Aiden and Carson.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Aiden, welcome.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Carson?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Carrie, you said they were outgoing, they were fun-loving, and here I am getting bashful.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_05: This is our first time on a podcast.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_05: You gotta give them like you gotta let them warm up a little bit, Rick, okay?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a little bit of a star appeal.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Aiden is a big fan of mine, right?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: I understand.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So the junior police academy, the third and final of our academy.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we started with the Citizens Police Academy, the Immersion Academy, and now the Junior Police Academy.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Am I getting them all right?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and then we'll do one more CPA in the fall.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: We'll do that one in the fall.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, Carrie, I'll let you lay out the age groups that we use uh for this one in particular, Junior Police Academy.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: How long is it?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: What have you done?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: So we have a bit of a younger crowd overall this year, which is great.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_05: We have a couple of students who just graduated middle school and are rising freshmen in uh in high school.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_05: And then Aiden was one of our gals who just graduated from high school and is getting ready to launch out into the world.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_05: So we are geared towards high school age students.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell with the potential for careers in law enforcement, or is this just more of a kind of a summer day camp thing?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you know what?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_05: We occasionally have, we ask them on the first day, why are you here?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_05: We always get a couple who are like, my parents are making me come, but after a few hours, they are so excited to be here.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_05: The majority of our participants are students that are either interested in forensic science or a a career in law enforcement.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: So Aiden, you just graduated from Irwin High School.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Irwin High School.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, congratulations.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you listened to the podcast.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: So who tipped you off to that?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_05: Instagram.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_05: Is that right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_05: That's where the youths are, Rick.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Hard to keep track of where the youths are.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know the Instagram was still a thing.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: I thought they had moved on to the tiki-talkie by now.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: Tiki-talkie.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll ask you first then, Aiden, what made you want to do the Junior Police Academy?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Well, my parents brought it up to me, and um we have uh resources in the police department that we reached out to and was like asking about it, and they said that it was a great opportunity and that if I wanted to do it, just go for it.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so I applied.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to do the forensic side of everything, but I kind of wanted to see the inner workings of everything else too, just to get a fill and see if that's actually something I want to do.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell So when you say resources, somebody knew somebody in the APD.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can name drop which officer?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Doug Williams.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you, Officer Williams, for recruiting one at least Aiden.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now Carson, how about you?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: What made you want to do it?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: I've always wanted to be a law enforcement officer or be in that kind of field.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: I have a lot of family that are firefighters, police officers, uh a lot of veterans in my family.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I've always really just wanted to become some type of law enforcement officer.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell So you're around it growing up a little bit, curious, and they're like, I want to see for myself.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you from?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I'm originally from Syracuse, New York, so upstate.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um in 2023, we moved to Huntsville, Alabama, and that's where we are now.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Go Orange, if you're from Syracuse.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you're a Syracuse Orange fan.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: You even said to me before we started, because you saw my Go Bills.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: He saw that.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Bills fans all over Mafia, right?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_04: So did you enjoy the week?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yes, sir.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: I did.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of fun and interesting things we got to do.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely really fun.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Aiden, how about you?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it was great.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: It did take me a little bit to warm up, but after we started going, it was it's been a very busy and we've stayed active and going and doing stuff.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell So what stood out to you?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is there something in particular, a particular tour, a particular lesson learned?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell I really enjoyed doing the simulation scenarios.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: That was really fun.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: It did teach you a lot and how to react and control the situation that you're in.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Carson, did it meet your expectations?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you wanted to sign up, you thought it would be interesting.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Was it what you expected?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_04: It blew past my expectations.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, oh, this looks really cool.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: I watched a promotional video, everything.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um we applied for it and I was like, I hope this is cool.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then when I got here and we started doing everything, I met all the officers, I was like, this is this is legit.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell Carson and Aiden with our junior police academy and officer Kerry Lee joining me right now.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: So Aiden had mentioned, Kerry, that it it takes a minute to warm up.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's probably that probably happens every time.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that could be anywhere.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: You see that with a whole bunch of people that are kind of getting forced together, right?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: But so what's the moment that you see them start to kind of enjoy themselves?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: Aaron Ross Powell Well, you know, Rick, we start off with a really easy uh icebreaker group activity um where we go over use of force laws and how to break down an AR-15.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_05: So we start them out super light.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_05: Real quick.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, super softball stuff.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so we we number them off, we throw them into groups, we teach them how to disassemble and reassemble the rifle, and also a handgun this year.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_05: And then we time them and we have a little friendly competition.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_05: And this year we had a group of three ladies that had the fastest time.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_05: So very, very proud of our ladies.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So tomorrow is uh the last day.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a holiday.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: I won't be here.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you guys could join me today.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do they know about tomorrow about getting tased?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_05: Uh you know, we've so far we only told them that they're tasing another officer.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so that'll be.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of spoiler a little bit.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: That'll be fun for you, though.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, pepper sprayed too.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's also it's a brilliant enjoyable thing.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, you know, then we'll videotape it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_05: You'll be you'll be good to go.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_05: So when you come back in a few years to be officers, you don't have to do it again.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_04: Already done.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: All the cred when you put that on your socials.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: So Aiden, you're a little closer in age with the opportunity to begin a career in law enforcement.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something you're thinking about?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Like becoming an officer, no.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: But I will definitely most likely go into the forensic side of everything.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, that's that's the thing.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's plenty of what they call non-sworn positions.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, I'm a member of the Asheville Police Department, but I am not a sworn officer.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Kerry Lee can arrest you.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: So and there's plenty of positions like that in the world of forensics and property and evidence and communications for people in the Asheville Police Department.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Carson, how about you?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell I'm 14 now.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: I plan to enlist in the Army when I'm 17, so I'm done with basic training.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_04: By the time I'm 18, because I have a January birthday.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I plan to do that, either go infantry or military police, probably going to go infantry.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_04: Once I get out, I'm going to go to the academy.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: I've been thinking coming to Asheville or joining my local sheriff's department.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: Because I have an explorer program, which can benefit me.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: Not that you've got like a detailed plan or anything, though, right?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I do.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_05: And one of the great things about the Junior Police Academy is we are not just focused on the officer side of things.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_05: We do a scenario on the first day that incorporates our detectives, our forensics, our drone first responder unit.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_05: They get to see all different kinds.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_05: They get to work with our wellness coach.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not just about being police officers.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_05: Would we love you to come back and be a police officer?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_05: Would we also love you just to be on our team in any capacity?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_05: That would be fantastic as well.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Something all of our academies have in common the Citizens Police Academy, the Immersion Academy, the Junior Police Academy, as a mission.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, if they inspire you to a career in life, Law enforcement as an officer or other, that's great.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: But mostly it's let's look behind the curtain and see what makes this department tick.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, learn about what it is we do, and then we find the more people that know what we do each and every day, the more support we get in the community, the better it is for everybody.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've seen it firsthand, Carrie.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_05: And we got to partner with uh Bunkham Carry Sheriff's Department today.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_05: We got to go do a behind-the-scenes tour of the jail.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_05: So they also got to ask questions of the corrections officers out there and see what that job is like as well.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, Aiden, what's your next step?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna do from here?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And not even police related.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: You've graduated high school, so what's the summer gonna look like for you?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: So during the summer, I'm taking a graduation trip out west.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna go to Wyoming.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then in the fall, I'm gonna start at Western Carolina University for my criminal justice major with a minor in forensic anthropology.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: Go catemounts, right?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: Go get them out.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so, Carson, you already laid your plan out pretty good.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you're just gonna have some fun this summer then?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I have uh my sisters are coming down from New York, so that's really it.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: We might uh we might go to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: For a trip because their birthday was in May, and we didn't really get to do anything for them.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: You ride the rides at Dollywood?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's fun.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing wrong with that.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Senior Police Officer Kerry Lee, Aiden, Carson.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you all for joining me and taking part in the Junior Police Academy.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's time once again for another History Minute with Hannah Silberman.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Here is one that I think everyone can relate to.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: We call this the worst traffic in Asheville's history.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Seems like this should uh have an echo to it, you know?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like the worst, worst, worst traffic, traffic, traffic.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: So tell us all about what happened July 3rd, 1951.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Well the headline read Heaviest traffic in history snarl streets on the front page of the Asheville Citizen.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think some folks that have uh lived here for any number of years would argue, but I will let you make your case.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a picture here for you.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty bad.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let me see it.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we got those are clearly not interstates.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Those are more like like city streets, right?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is this so we're talking more well, first things first, there were no interstates really in 1951.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: There was a few, right?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we might have had I-40, but we would not have had I-26, which is the big one, the kind of east-west, kind of in a diagonal way, but that would have been the one that brought people up from say Greenville, South Carolina.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: What happened?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us all about it.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was a couple of things.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it started with pre-Fourth of July travel.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it was July 3rd, 1951.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like right about now.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And according to Chief Dermud, the public safety director at the time, apparently there were all of these textile mills in South Carolina and they had had a huge heat wave.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they gave all of these workers five days off.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so to escape the heat, they all came to the mountains.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he had a quote quote, apparently everybody at the seashore decided to visit the mountains today, and everybody in the mountains headed for the seashore.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: So folks coming in, folks going out, and nowhere to put them all.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so kind of also like now with a heat wave.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're going to have temperatures this week as we record.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: Today is June, what is it, 29th today, 30th?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we're this whole week is going to be in the 90s.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: And in South Carolina, like say Greenville, for example, upper 90s to near 100.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: So unlike maybe then, certainly not much cooler weather here in the mountains.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell I mean apparently a very large amount of it were tourists because they said that in a 15-minute check of traffic on Merriman Avenue, that five out of every six automobiles passing had were from other states.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he swore that at least all 48 states were represented.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: You said all 48 states.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell That's right.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: So Hawaii and Alaska not yet part of the United States officially.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you could have theoretically driven from all 48 states.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: You could have yet knocked all four of them off.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well you still can do 49.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's a tough one to get to Hawaii.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, via automobile, unless you get some sort of other alternate transportation.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: So here's what we got uh lack of air conditioning, I would guess, in South Carolina.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_07: Yep.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: Heat wave, thinking it's cooler in the mountains, extended weekend off, holiday weekend off.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: They pretty much all head this direction, and then the locals also decide, hey, let's go to the beach or something.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is where it all meets up.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell And on top of that, there were four Army convoys that decided to pass through Asheville at the exact same time with 200 trucks.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: 200?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: So he said the largest single convoy had 86 trucks, which quote unquote invaded the city in the morning.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll read one quote that I enjoyed.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: It said, harassed and perspiring traffic officers fought valiantly to keep the slow-moving columns going.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: But as one arm weary officer commented, there just wasn't anywhere to send all those cars.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can see that.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you got your cop out there, he's sweating bullets, right?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: He's arm weary because he's waving people at the end.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Keep moving, keep moving.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm going to add on top of all of that, no GPS.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you got a ton of people coming from South Carolina with probably not much of a plan.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, we'll just get a hotel or something, right?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: So and no Airbnbs, no blah, blah, blah.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: None of these things.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: So they're just heading this way with probably not much of a plan.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: So they don't even really know where they're going.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell That's right.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well they said the absolute worst spot was the intersection of college and Broadway, where five U.S.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: highways intersected.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's basically where everybody was either trying to come or go.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: So well, so the intersection of college and Broadway is like mere feet from our headquarters, right?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I get it.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you're talking right downtown.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: So without these big interstates, people were probably they're going through downtown.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: These were the the state routes, the numbered roads, right?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: 74, 70, et cetera.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: So what route would they have come up from South Carolina?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Would that have been 74, I guess?
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't really know.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I everyone just assumes and takes for granted as nasty as I-26 is and as gommed up as it gets, it's still a major interstate.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: And to think of what road it would have been to get from there to here, from here to there in 1951, I just do not know.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're all like you said, they're all the numbered routes, like um 74 is probably one, you know, 280 comes from the other direction.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So we're talking two-lane roads, right?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Two-lane twisty roads.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of bumper to bumper, probably all the way or kind of like when people go to, like, say, Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forge and they go the back way because the gorge right now is all the traffic in the gorge, and I have 40 through the gorge is really bad.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: So people are trying to go the So that way.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's a beautiful drive if you don't have a lot of traffic, but it wouldn't be a whole lot of fun if you did.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's not hardly anywhere to stop.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: You'd probably get motion sickness if you weren't the type of person that usually was used to that.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, if you imagine all these old cars with no air conditioning and they're all just metal, no AC in the car, screaming kids in the backseat.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: This sounds absolutely miserable.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and okay, so I'm I'm used to the bad traffic around here.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: It gets frustrated.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I have like maybe a couple of different options to go home every day, right?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: None of them are especially good.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh with us being downtown, me living not far off of I-40 exit 44, people know where that is, the Smoky Park Highway exit.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I take the interstate, like basically point-to-point every day.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: But as everyone knows, so does everybody else.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: And with the construction that's been taking place for the better part of two decades, every day I kind of I look at the GPS every day, because some days there's a wreck that will say, oh, don't go that way.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so every single day, it is like a a game to see which way I can get home in like less than a half hour.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Imagine if you didn't have that magic foresight of knowing where the traffic is.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: You have no idea what it's like even around the other corner, let alone what it's like in five miles, like because of something going.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know on top of all the things you've mentioned, there was going to be wrecks, too.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: People are bumping into each other.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: So in on top of all of that, you've got probably accidents too.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you got to get those off to the side of the road.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it it does actually mention the fact that the hotels overflowed.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, they didn't have a good plan.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it said that by early evening, hotels, motor courts, and tourist homes were overflowing, and several hundred persons must have been turned away throughout the city.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: So all of these people are just driving around, probably trying to find a place to stay.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell So it was it was in a way biblical because there was no room at the inn.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was a tragedy of biblical proportions in Asheville.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: So once again, as we've been doing for how many years here in Asheville, the tourists were to blame for the traffic jab.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: The tourists and the army convoys, but uh he seems to have thought that the tourists played the biggest role in this.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some things never change.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm starting to believe the argument that it was the worst traffic in Asheville's history.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: History, history.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Although I think we'll give it a run for its money as they build this new bridge through downtown, so we'll start seeing that.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: So Hannah Silberman, thank you again for the History Minute from July 3rd, 1951.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: That does it for another episode.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you to my guests, Interim Chief Jackie Stepp, Captain Evan Coward, Senior Police Officer Kerry Lee, along with Aidan and Carson from the Junior Police Academy, and Hannah Silberman with the History Minute.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for listening.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got a question or topic suggestion, somebody you'd like to be a guest, call 828-250-8800 and leave a voicemail.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: That is 828-250-8800.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you would prefer email, we can do that too.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Just shoot me something at APD PodcastFeedback at AshevilleNC.gov.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's APD Podcastfeedback at AshevilleNC.gov.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Listen and subscribe now wherever you get your podcast and don't miss a single episode.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do me a favor, leave a five-star review.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Those go a long way.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Rick Rice.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: This is the APD Pod Squad.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Happy 250th birthday, America.