Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (1/3)

Transcript

Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (1/3) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker quicker.
• 0:37
  Now Martin, I have a very important question for you and
• 0:43
  I've been online researching and I can't find any answers
• 0:47
  anywhere. Oh, by the way, hello Martin,
• 0:49
  how are you today? Hello, Joe.
• 0:51
  I'm all right. Thank you.
• 0:52
  Oh. I suppose I should say welcome
• 0:54
  back to our absolute blood pen knife as well.
• 0:57
  The Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
• 0:59
  That's the one we're doing. That's right.
• 1:01
  Yeah. Not too hot for TV.
• 1:02
  Oh, no. There'll be no gossip and
• 1:04
  scandal today. Not strangers in space.
• 1:06
  No, we're not going to be boring cunts.
• 1:08
  No, it's Hamster. And my question for you is this.
• 1:11
  You ready? Yes, go on.
• 1:13
  Attacks your brain to oblivion and back in the great annals of
• 1:17
  Doctor Who, right? Yeah, in the sort of wilderness
• 1:20
  years and everything beyond. How many sort of Doctor Who
• 1:23
  stories do you imagine on audio comic strip books?
• 1:27
  How many Doctor Who stories do you imagine sort of popped into
• 1:29
  existence since, you know, the show was cancelled for the first
• 1:33
  time? Oh my God, all across all of the
• 1:37
  spin offs. Just a rough estimate, I don't
• 1:41
  need you to research it and. I'm literally just like, OK, I'm
• 1:44
  going to be oh wait, up to when? Till now.
• 1:47
  Till now. Yeah, that's right, 89 to 26.
• 1:52
  Oh my God. OK, I'm good.
• 1:53
  So then it's going to be like 2000 because because I was
• 1:59
  thinking a big fit, I thought you were going to say until the
• 2:01
  series came back. If it's still.
• 2:03
  If it's still now. That you were thinking there are
• 2:06
  only 2000 big finishes. That's that's double that I
• 2:11
  think. OK, let's say 2000.
• 2:13
  All right, that's that's an estimated guess, right.
• 2:16
  So within that, yeah, every single back alley of Doctor Who
• 2:20
  continuity has been explored, right?
• 2:22
  Yeah, everything. You know, we've had the Wiran
• 2:25
  back, we've had Morbius back, we've had, oh, help me out here.
• 2:29
  We've had the the war chief back.
• 2:31
  We've had, we've done season 6 B, we've done everything you
• 2:35
  could possibly think of. Yeah.
• 2:36
  Yeah. Everything's been touched again,
• 2:39
  mostly by Big Finish, but also by BBC Books and Virgin as well.
• 2:43
  Why the hell has nobody given us the future adventures of Delta,
• 2:49
  Billy and do as child? It's just totally no one's
• 2:56
  touched it, have they? No.
• 2:57
  That is a very good point because I mean, I was about to
• 2:59
  say that. What, because there's a banner
• 3:02
  man in something. Oh it's Oh my God, wait, there's
• 3:08
  a banner man in is. That what they're called in a
• 3:12
  singular banner, man. Oh.
• 3:13
  But yeah, there's one of yeah, banner, man.
• 3:17
  There's, there's a banner in, I think Return of the Living Dad
• 3:21
  as one, as one of the in Little Coldwells, one of Isaac
• 3:24
  Summerfield's gang. I think, I think that's what it
• 3:27
  is because I remember being like, oh.
• 3:29
  The one with the Alton spoon. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:33
  OK, Yeah, there's a lot of continuity in that one, isn't
• 3:35
  there? Yeah.
• 3:36
  And of course, we've recently had the return of Sarah
• 3:38
  Griffiths to Big Finish as Ray. Unfortunate.
• 3:42
  Have you heard that? No, I haven't heard that yet.
• 3:44
  I don't bother Horse. Sylvester McCoy.
• 3:49
  He never knew what quite how to act in the 1st place, but now
• 3:52
  he's just abandoned all hope. He just sort of grabs the mic
• 3:56
  and goes, yeah, Harry, Naomi Ray, you know, oh, it's not
• 4:01
  great, but. It's interesting that sometimes
• 4:04
  that sort of performance, I mean, that makes me think of
• 4:06
  obviously we've had the Daleks master plan episodes back and
• 4:10
  there were the times when you see that Hartnell has no idea
• 4:14
  what what what the script, but he still he manages to make
• 4:17
  something quite magical out of his total ad libbing get.
• 4:23
  Shut up. Next thing you'll be saying he's
• 4:28
  getting the emphasis wrong on the dialogue.
• 4:30
  But no. No, no.
• 4:31
  No. Outrageous.
• 4:33
  Not that, not how. Did dose Daleks not shoot him?
• 4:36
  I mean, he shouted out their name and they were just half a
• 4:38
  metre. Who the fuck was that?
• 4:43
  Oh my God, that was absolutely exceptional.
• 4:46
  But like so so the sort of extended question is then like
• 4:50
  I'm just going to ask you now before we're even going to delta
• 4:52
  and abandonment, please, will you, because I assume, you know,
• 4:56
  transcripts go online and AI picks it up and every fact
• 5:00
  that's said on the habs of a blunt pen knife soon becomes a
• 5:03
  fact on the Internet. So will you just quickly write
• 5:06
  the future of Delta, her child, and Billy, please?
• 5:11
  Did they live happily ever after?
• 5:13
  Did they have space adventures and heists and things?
• 5:16
  No, I wanna go really horrible for.
• 5:19
  Ohh new adventures who I was gonna say.
• 5:22
  No, I wanna give them an early past doctor adventure or EBA,
• 5:27
  whatever it was Joe Grant. They got divorced.
• 5:30
  She's living like the the child is living in a care home, but
• 5:34
  accidentally sort of screams and kills people because she won't
• 5:37
  control it. God, I would be all about that.
• 5:41
  Don't you tell me Billy turned out to be a domestic abuser.
• 5:44
  I can't handle it. Good grief.
• 5:49
  So what happened to Delta then when she sort of lost her child?
• 5:52
  Ohh. Was it a life of sort of space
• 5:54
  drugs? No, I was like she, she works in
• 5:56
  a Safeway. Here's to the future, everybody.
• 6:04
  It wasn't the future I promised. So now I'll sort of, you know,
• 6:08
  now the AI is going to pick up this alternative version now,
• 6:11
  right? So that's the sort of that's the
• 6:13
  wilderness years version. And now I'm going to do sort of
• 6:15
  the Russell T Davies everything's marvellous version.
• 6:19
  And that is just a bit like Joe Grant.
• 6:20
  You know, they ended up having 5 million children populating
• 6:24
  entire worlds with their brood because, you know, they're a bit
• 6:27
  like honey bees. You know, once, once you start
• 6:29
  popping, they can't stop sort of coming out, you know, and they
• 6:34
  faced many threats in their times.
• 6:36
  But you know how the sort of bees protect the queen bee?
• 6:39
  Yeah, well, Delta sort of kept safe inside the honey pot or
• 6:43
  whatever it is. And then Billy sort of goes out
• 6:46
  and collects the green Jelly for her.
• 6:48
  And as he goes out there, he has wonderful space adventures.
• 6:52
  He meets up with Melanie Bush and Savilon Glitz.
• 6:55
  You know, he goes back in time and saves the tollmaster, of
• 7:00
  course, from his terrible death in this and all sorts.
• 7:03
  You know, it's just wonderful. Yeah.
• 7:05
  There's a whole high story, you know, where he goes.
• 7:08
  And he goes on a heist with the tetraps.
• 7:13
  They're the ones that hang from the roof to come in and steal
• 7:15
  the diamond. Yeah.
• 7:18
  Wonderful. This is gorgeous.
• 7:20
  This is. I want to see all of this.
• 7:22
  I was going to say, the toll. The tollmaster was only stunned
• 7:24
  anyway, So he's all right. He just he woke up again.
• 7:29
  And then, you know, she's been so long inside that honeypot
• 7:32
  delta. Oh God, just.
• 7:35
  Delta's honeypot has never been said so many times in our
• 7:37
  conversation. Billy's been Billy's been
• 7:40
  guarding Delta's honeypot. God, it dribbles with juices,
• 7:43
  you know, just ah, the nectar of the gods that she's so long in
• 7:48
  there. She knows so cocoon.
• 7:50
  Because she's an alien, right? Yeah.
• 7:52
  And then she becomes an entire sentient planet, a bit like the
• 7:56
  Gaia myth come true, you know? And it's odd.
• 7:59
  That's right. She becomes the planet Delta
• 8:02
  Magna. Stop.
• 8:07
  It. Where Crow?
• 8:09
  Where Crow farts on her on a regular basis.
• 8:13
  Finally, all of the favourites have come together.
• 8:17
  What? About today, yeah.
• 8:22
  We're talking about the power of no, we're talking about Delta
• 8:25
  and the Batterman pre previous to these adventures.
• 8:30
  Yeah. Oh boy, Oh boy.
• 8:31
  I mean, you never know, really, do you?
• 8:33
  Did you ever play that when you were younger?
• 8:34
  Sort of What happens next. Not really.
• 8:38
  Never to the extent that you have.
• 8:43
  You should you should hear what happened on Varos after that
• 8:46
  story. My God the sex torture slate
• 8:51
  video trade man. It was a please get us on track.
• 8:54
  So season 24. Yes, Season 24.
• 8:58
  That's where it all started. He just gauged this for a
• 9:01
  second. Now you're how old, may I ask?
• 9:03
  I am 38. Good grief, I would have taken
• 9:06
  10 years off you. Thank you.
• 9:09
  This conversation is going to take 10 years off.
• 9:12
  A very young 38. OK, so you was how old when
• 9:15
  season 24 came out? Was, was that, was that born in
• 9:19
  dragon fire or something? I think I can't remember.
• 9:22
  I don't know when it was. Yeah, it was.
• 9:24
  I was. I was born at the end of 87 so.
• 9:26
  You're sort of in the video age. You, you came to this much
• 9:29
  later. I came in too much.
• 9:31
  I came into on the the anniversary repeats.
• 9:35
  So Revelation of the Daleks was my in so that that was the
• 9:40
  you're. Still around?
• 9:41
  No, and I say I've only it was the first couple of minutes of
• 9:45
  the second with the statue falling and it I watched a
• 9:48
  couple of minutes, was absolutely hooked.
• 9:50
  And then my mum came in and was like, I'm turning this off.
• 9:53
  It was a bit when the doctor gets like punched in the stomach
• 9:55
  or whatever. And she was like, no, this is
• 9:57
  like, so then I spent all my days being like, what was that
• 9:59
  thing? What was that thing that was on
• 10:01
  TV and then and then mum. But then what was good was then
• 10:05
  I got the answers. So then mum would be like, well,
• 10:07
  when I was a girl, I watched on TV and there was this adventure
• 10:10
  with Marco Polo, which was amazing.
• 10:11
  I bet you can't wait to watch that and told me about talking
• 10:14
  about master plan told me about Katarina dying and how much that
• 10:17
  marked her. And like, so I was, so I
• 10:21
  immediately had this like, background of the series and
• 10:24
  then obviously just watched all the rest of the repeats and then
• 10:26
  videos. Yeah, that was my.
• 10:27
  That was my. Wonderful that your your mum got
• 10:31
  you. But I mean, but, and also it has
• 10:34
  what's really like lovely but also unfair is that mum has this
• 10:37
  brilliant memory. So she can, she was telling me
• 10:40
  stuff pretty much like exactly. And then I'd see the story and
• 10:44
  she didn't know what existed, what didn't exist on, you know.
• 10:47
  So she was telling me these stories as if it was something
• 10:49
  I'd never seen. And then obviously lots of them
• 10:51
  I did then get on to see. But she'll tell me about the
• 10:54
  myth makers and stuff, and it's you.
• 10:56
  Get her to write it all down or I.
• 10:58
  Honestly was someone was saying recently on Twitter they were
• 11:02
  like what you need is you know, like in hospitals where you put
• 11:04
  down like age, gender, religion, you need to like memories of
• 11:07
  Doctor Who story like. Give me was it in longshot All
• 11:11
  right? I need to know the camera
• 11:13
  angles. Well, honestly, because she was
• 11:14
  saying like she was like, I just remember so clearly, like
• 11:17
  Katarina, she was just floating through space.
• 11:19
  And then so I've always had that, that thing.
• 11:20
  And then recently there's been loads of discussion and that it
• 11:22
  was done on trampolines and whatever.
• 11:24
  And it's like, I just, I want to see this like I've got.
• 11:26
  Why did that one not come back? I was so scared that you was
• 11:30
  going to say that you did see all of Revelation on Darling's
• 11:32
  episode 2 and that bit where Tasen Beaker goes the great
• 11:37
  Eeler has all did you get And you just thought, who is this
• 11:40
  queen I need to know more about? Tasen Beaker adventures.
• 11:48
  Yeah, let's say Billy went back and saved there as well.
• 11:51
  Oh, why did I do it? Come with me when I say run,
• 11:55
  run. Imagine the adventures of Billy
• 11:59
  and Tasenbaker. I'm.
• 12:01
  Trying to think like what would would one have like a positive
• 12:05
  effect on the other? Is this like it's just that they
• 12:08
  are the polar opposite characters aren't they?
• 12:11
  You lie to Delta as easy as you pick up women.
• 12:18
  Oh yeah, She'd be constantly on at him, thinking that he's
• 12:21
  cheating on devil. He never is.
• 12:23
  He never is. He's too faithful.
• 12:24
  But she thinks that she doesn't trust any man.
• 12:26
  She'd be a wonderful fag hag, wouldn't she?
• 12:29
  Doesn't, you know, literally with a fag in her mouth, the
• 12:33
  side of every story. No man ever wants me.
• 12:37
  Sorry, I don't know how we got here.
• 12:42
  You started. You brought Revelation of the
• 12:45
  Dalek. This conversation we've gone
• 12:47
  through, oh God, I don't know. It's like the further adventures
• 12:49
  of Billy. We've gone to the Gaia
• 12:50
  hypothesis. We've gone to TASM, Beaker, the
• 12:53
  fag. This is this is what?
• 12:54
  Oh my God, and let's just try and write all in one book.
• 12:57
  Alright. We'll call it the adventures
• 13:00
  after the adventures after. The thing is though, Paul Mars
• 13:03
  could probably do that. Have you mentioned Paul Mars?
• 13:06
  I reckon. I reckon he could make it work.
• 13:08
  I might say, Paul, please write me a short story with Tassan
• 13:11
  Baker, the fag hag. Please make her northern though,
• 13:18
  wouldn't he? You know, yeah, absolutely.
• 13:21
  You're out. Pair the great eelers ordered
• 13:23
  you dance. OK, I'm sorry.
• 13:27
  I'm sorry. OK, I'm going to try and focus
• 13:30
  season. 24. Season 24, yes, that's where we
• 13:32
  started. Season 24, yes, Yeah.
• 13:35
  So what's your thoughts? I really like season 24, but I
• 13:41
  got but it was one of the last. It was definitely like the the
• 13:48
  last McCoy that I saw apart. I saw dragon fire quite early on
• 13:52
  and that was the only one I'd seen.
• 13:54
  And I've heard obviously kind of bad things, you know, from like
• 14:01
  the fans, sort of like whatever myths that were going round.
• 14:05
  I had this really stupid. This is so stupid.
• 14:07
  I had this totally ridiculous thing against Delta and the
• 14:10
  Bannerman because I remember once misreading an episode guide
• 14:15
  and thinking that it was called Dancer and the Banana Man.
• 14:18
  This is so stupid. And I was like what a stupid
• 14:21
  title. I bet it's like aliens that look
• 14:23
  like bananas. I don't want to see that.
• 14:25
  I mean, did you see that alien going through the trailer?
• 14:28
  It does look like a big banana. And so I just, it was so stupid,
• 14:33
  but I was like, Oh well then I'm not interested.
• 14:34
  And so and then I got round to seeing time.
• 14:37
  Against bananas. I don't know it's so I mean, I
• 14:40
  was a young a young boy, but I don't know.
• 14:43
  OK, some something just really. I was like, I don't want to.
• 14:46
  That sounds stupid. Whatever saw then saw time with
• 14:49
  Irani saw Paradise Towers was like yeah, OK, and then it was
• 14:52
  only when dealt when the banner meant was it one of the.
• 14:55
  Last. Yeah, VHS's. 2nd to last I think
• 14:58
  invasion of the last one and. Oh, yeah, OK.
• 15:01
  And it there was the that there was the review in Doctor Who
• 15:03
  magazine. I think it was Vanessa Bishop
• 15:06
  review that said, oh boy. And it and it was like Delta is
• 15:09
  zinging. And I was like, oh, zinging.
• 15:12
  Is it OK, well, then maybe I better check this out.
• 15:14
  And to be it's a good word. Then I was like, OK, no, this is
• 15:18
  amazing. I was like, this is the first
• 15:19
  time I watched it. I was completely blown away by
• 15:23
  it. I just thought this is so fun.
• 15:26
  Then I think I became a bit more critical on it.
• 15:29
  Although, as I'll say, I've now. Gone through your teenage years
• 15:32
  now, are you? Yeah.
• 15:34
  I refuse to enjoy fun. Basically that and I think I've
• 15:38
  I've then kept this thing of OK, it's like 5050 some of it works,
• 15:41
  some of it doesn't and then this time I've gone really the other
• 15:44
  way. I just think it's great again,
• 15:46
  but I. Think Wish you hate listening to
• 15:48
  lots of Nicholas Briggs audios in your teams.
• 15:50
  You know, sort of the most serious Doctor Who you can get.
• 15:54
  Yeah, wonderful. Sort of.
• 15:56
  Orion. Everyone's suffering.
• 15:59
  In fact, sort of. Orion isn't sort of the
• 16:01
  antithesis of downward the Panaman, isn't it?
• 16:03
  Yeah, but to be honest, I was also listening to the audio
• 16:05
  visuals where it's like Doctor Who becomes a crack addict like
• 16:08
  this. Oh, OK, they're quite different
• 16:11
  from this then, I suppose. Yeah, I don't know.
• 16:13
  Sex drugs rock'n'roll. Sex, drugs, Rock'n'roll, it's
• 16:15
  all there. But I think for me, the big
• 16:18
  thing about season 24 now being a bit more critical about it is
• 16:21
  that I do completely think it. I mean, as everyone kind of
• 16:24
  knows, it's the season where things sort of change, the
• 16:28
  direction changes. I think some people put Dragon
• 16:35
  Fire as kind of the point where things change because Ace comes
• 16:38
  in, because the the tone changes a bit.
• 16:41
  I think it's Delta and the Bannerman, which is where things
• 16:44
  change. I think time in the Rani has its
• 16:48
  has has. I was going to say has its
• 16:51
  flaws, but it's a lot of fun. It looks great.
• 16:54
  It's very sort of, I don't sometimes this is a bit of a
• 16:56
  backhanded compliment, but it's very confident.
• 16:59
  It's very sort of out. It does it goes for what it
• 17:01
  wants. It looks great.
• 17:03
  It does it. It does that.
• 17:04
  The effects are good and whatever.
• 17:06
  Then I think Paradise Towers gets better with every.
• 17:10
  I think it's brilliant. I think the script is brilliant,
• 17:13
  but I have this weird feeling that I don't feel like it's a
• 17:16
  great Doctor Who story. I think it's a great sci-fi
• 17:20
  story. I think it's a brilliant like
• 17:22
  reinterpretation of JG Ballard, I think.
• 17:25
  But I kind of think if Stephen Wyatt had written that for ITV
• 17:29
  and they've done it with a bigger budget, he would on on
• 17:33
  film. You know, proper lower class
• 17:35
  actors play. Yeah, exactly that.
• 17:37
  He would have had a massive career if he'd done that.
• 17:41
  Not in Doctor Who. Not to sort of kick Doctor Who
• 17:43
  too much, but I kind of feel like it's a script that it, it,
• 17:47
  it almost deserves to be done on its own.
• 17:50
  It's and I love the world, but you know, I've written a story
• 17:53
  in that world and whatever, you know, I really like the, the,
• 17:55
  the world. Well, the.
• 17:56
  Comics as well, right? I mean, it has got a life
• 17:59
  outside of this, hasn't. It but those comics are great.
• 18:02
  Yeah, I think it's it is really. So I kind of think it's almost
• 18:05
  like I would not criticise it, but I feel like it's not quite
• 18:10
  doing what the show needs yet. And then Delta and the bannermen
• 18:15
  comes in and suddenly that's like, OK, we've got young script
• 18:20
  editor who wants to do sort of different things.
• 18:23
  He wants to get different voices in who wants it to be, you know,
• 18:29
  not like other things that we're seeing on TV.
• 18:31
  And that's what we get in Delta from the banner man.
• 18:34
  And there's so much. It feels so fresh.
• 18:37
  It feels so vibrant. It's fun.
• 18:40
  Like it's really fun energy. To it, isn't it?
• 18:45
  It's got an energy kept insane music that does help.
• 18:49
  That does help, but the it's, Oh yeah, I've got, it's so pacey.
• 18:53
  And this is what I think a big thing is.
• 18:56
  It's like the show's gone on for 24 years and they've finally
• 19:00
  been like, do you know what? You know how there's always a
• 19:03
  shit Part 4? What if we just didn't have one?
• 19:08
  And we made Part 3 not the runaround, but just great.
• 19:12
  Yeah, what if we just made it like a useful number of episodes
• 19:16
  and it's like, you know, that's the first I would well, apart
• 19:18
  from Planet of Giants or whatever, but it's like, you
• 19:20
  know, that wasn't deliberate, but it's like, let's just make
• 19:23
  something that's really pacey. Let's give it this kind of
• 19:26
  energy. Let's not have a lag in the
• 19:28
  story. It's here.
• 19:30
  It's here where it works. There are three partners in
• 19:33
  Mccoy's time where I'm like this needed more time.
• 19:36
  Yes, you know, you you're not putting in the explanations
• 19:39
  because you haven't got enough time to give them.
• 19:41
  No, but then also you get that problem in McCoy four parters
• 19:45
  where you're just like you've just you've you've got too much
• 19:47
  script, which is sort. Of what's the saying?
• 19:50
  He's a great script editor, but not a great editor of scripts.
• 19:54
  Yes, that's very good. But copyright cyhop.
• 19:59
  Well done, Cy. But it's things like it it.
• 20:02
  Yeah, I think for for us as sort of television archaeologists
• 20:06
  that we become with being Doctor Who fans, it's brilliant because
• 20:10
  when you can watch all the cut scenes from McCoy stories and
• 20:12
  all the special editions, that's such a nice thing to be able to
• 20:16
  do. Like I love Ghost Light and I've
• 20:19
  watched so many different versions of the cut scenes and
• 20:22
  the kind of work print version. And all.
• 20:25
  And that's lovely, but more. Fucking versions of cursor
• 20:28
  Fenrick than Sharda now Sykes. Yeah, I mean, the more I was
• 20:36
  talking recently, yeah, about vampires in Doctor Who and the
• 20:38
  more vampire stuff they put back into Cursifenric, where it's
• 20:41
  just the Russians going out with stakes, none of that simply
• 20:44
  original. Yes.
• 20:46
  Go. Those two trollopes aren't
• 20:48
  sufficient enough to suggest these are vampires.
• 20:51
  But I was saying that genuinely, I didn't cut the first time.
• 20:54
  Watching it as a young kid, I didn't really get that it was
• 20:56
  supposed to be vampire. I didn't really understand it.
• 21:00
  And then you watch the extended cut and it's like they're all
• 21:02
  there, like staked through the heart, like brilliant.
• 21:04
  Yes. Like, was it the long shots in
• 21:06
  the daytime on the beach where you weren't quite getting
• 21:09
  vampire movie? Threw me a little.
• 21:12
  Bit yeah. What's that in the distance?
• 21:15
  Is it a load of old women coming across the beach?
• 21:18
  I'm not sure something. About not going out in the sun.
• 21:20
  I don't know. Stop.
• 21:21
  Being mean about because of Henrik.
• 21:23
  Great not getting a name. But, but I think so just go back
• 21:28
  to what I was saying. So I think Delta is great Doctor
• 21:31
  Who, I think that's kind of the, the the key thing is that like
• 21:35
  time in the Rani, it is a lot of fun and Paradise Towers is
• 21:39
  really great in on its own merits.
• 21:41
  Delton Banderman is like, no, this is Doctor Who being Doctor
• 21:44
  Who, and it's being absolutely delightful with it.
• 21:49
  I realized something on this watch that I hadn't realized
• 21:53
  before. So even I can have a new opinion
• 21:55
  on Delta and the Banderman. The third time around for
• 21:58
  Hamster. And that was that the first seen
• 22:03
  in this, the big action set piece on the cliffs and lots of
• 22:07
  people being murdered, bodies flying about.
• 22:10
  You are the last survivor, right?
• 22:12
  That's almost like textbook Eric Saywood start, right?
• 22:17
  Yeah. And you're thinking, oh, God
• 22:19
  almighty, or that maybe it was just a flute when we had fun in
• 22:21
  time in the Ronnie and Paradise Towers.
• 22:24
  And then the story rejects that completely.
• 22:26
  It takes the premise of the last survivor being hunted down by a
• 22:31
  load of genocidal Nazis and then takes it to 1950s Wales holiday
• 22:37
  camp. And there's there is no plot
• 22:41
  from that point on, it's just a runaround with the bad guys
• 22:46
  trying to get hold of Delta and her child and murder them off.
• 22:50
  And essentially the story is, let's gather as many weird
• 22:55
  eccentrics as we can into this enormous gang of people to look
• 22:59
  after her, and then at the end that all of them and their
• 23:03
  special various skills all come together and defeat the Banner
• 23:07
  Men, and then they get to go off in the spaceship.
• 23:10
  But it's totally rejecting that plot heavy Doctor Who that we'd
• 23:14
  had for like 5 seasons before this.
• 23:17
  And it's leaning into charm and comedy and character humour, and
• 23:23
  I think that's just sublime. I think it's about time.
• 23:26
  It's about time, absolutely. And also, I mean, even when
• 23:30
  we'll get there in a minute, but even that first scene.
• 23:32
  Will we? Will we get there?
• 23:34
  Will we can? I don't know.
• 23:35
  But there's so much verve in the way that first scene is
• 23:39
  directed. And I feel like I don't want to
• 23:42
  criticise other directors, but it's like the first shot has so
• 23:47
  much impact. It's like, yes, you've really
• 23:49
  hit the ground running in a way that I feel like for a few years
• 23:52
  the show's maybe not done that, or not as much as it should have
• 23:57
  been doing. It's been sort of, yeah, mired
• 24:00
  down with sort of other issues. As soon as you get to this one,
• 24:03
  it's like, boom, OK, we're in. Like, this is what we're doing.
• 24:05
  This is great. And even though they don't have
• 24:10
  the money to do a lot of this stuff, it's almost like no one
• 24:13
  told the people making it that they had no budget.
• 24:15
  So they were like, yeah, a cast of 26 people.
• 24:18
  That's. All on location all.
• 24:20
  The way. Yeah, fine.
• 24:22
  Why the fuck not spaceships everywhere?
• 24:24
  Why not? You want a holiday camp?
• 24:27
  Fine. Alien baby, Why not?
• 24:29
  Of course we can do. That we get to the thumb in the
• 24:32
  mouth. Oh, amazing.
• 24:37
  But I think people think. And so this is where this is
• 24:40
  where you have the divide in Doctor Who fans, all right?
• 24:43
  Those that love sort of Ryan and those that love Delta and the
• 24:47
  bannermen, right? And I know you can love both,
• 24:49
  but let's just talk about those two.
• 24:51
  Yeah. And they would watch this and
• 24:53
  they see that first scene and all those bodies flying about,
• 24:56
  All right? They look like dummies, but
• 24:58
  they're bodies, you know, And there's guns firing.
• 25:01
  Oh, my God. Genocide.
• 25:02
  Amazing. This is going to be a RIP
• 25:04
  roaring Ericsson Saywood massacre.
• 25:06
  Wonderful. And then in the next scene, Ken
• 25:08
  Dodd's there with a blower going woo woo, congratulations, you
• 25:13
  won the grand prize. And that's when those people get
• 25:16
  off and go, oh, no, please. Whereas the other people
• 25:19
  probably come in and go, oh, another massacre, really.
• 25:22
  And then he gets all camp and silly and, you know, body
• 25:25
  Langford's doing a 12. They get to know you dance and
• 25:28
  they're like, yes, this is what we've been missing.
• 25:31
  I think I like a bit of both, but I like a bit of the latter.
• 25:35
  I think I really do sort of walk the line between those two.
• 25:40
  I think I'd I'd like things to be quite.
• 25:44
  I like there to be something quite gritty and nasty behind
• 25:48
  it. But like what I think Delta does
• 25:49
  really well is it doesn't take that away because you've got
• 25:53
  Gavrock being so horrible or like almost like and it's and he
• 25:58
  walks the line between like full on panto villain and actually
• 26:02
  quite horrible really, really well.
• 26:05
  Do you not see that stewed Weir and grub that he's eating at the
• 26:08
  end of episode 2? You know, kept me on to that
• 26:12
  arc. I've heard there's some Weir and
• 26:13
  grubs there we can put in the put in the steamer.
• 26:17
  But that that I think you get the set, and what you get also
• 26:20
  is a certain sense of that, like the universe is a dangerous
• 26:24
  place that you get with the hit man, which is such a lovely idea
• 26:28
  as well. There's just these sort of
• 26:30
  people at Mercenaries for Hire just going out killing people.
• 26:32
  That's lovely. And I think that all marries
• 26:35
  together really well. It's the universe is a dangerous
• 26:39
  place, but there are lovely people.
• 26:41
  But there are lovely people and weird people and just, yeah, but
• 26:45
  just strange people. This is, that's what Doctor Who
• 26:47
  should be about, really, isn't it?
• 26:48
  It's like, because I've always had this thing of, and I think
• 26:50
  this was who, who said this. I think it was Gary Gillet.
• 26:55
  Gillet. I don't even know how you
• 26:56
  pronounce his name. He.
• 26:57
  When he got out of that sort of Dalek dress.
• 27:00
  Yeah, When he took the Dalek dress off, he was talking about
• 27:03
  how the Doctor Who is always about death, ultimately.
• 27:08
  And I've always felt that like quite keenly that like it's
• 27:12
  almost about like the universe is a really scary place and it's
• 27:17
  like there's going to be people are going to die horribly, but
• 27:21
  you're sort of kicking back against that and you're sort of
• 27:25
  standing against that and you're trying to have like fun along
• 27:28
  the way. And I've always kind of felt
• 27:29
  that that's what Doctor Who, you know, it's essence is, is about
• 27:32
  that really. And I think this is just a
• 27:35
  fantastic example. Of whether you lean into that
• 27:40
  entirely or, you know, you, you, yeah, it's about death, but it
• 27:44
  doesn't have to be deathly serious.
• 27:47
  No, no, no, no. One, one of the arguments I've
• 27:49
  made previously, I promise you, we'll press play on episode 1 in
• 27:52
  a minute. One of the episodes, one of the
• 27:54
  things I said previous about Season 24 is I really like that
• 27:57
  line between camp and danger that you just said there.
• 28:02
  So time and the Raleigh is a big glitzy camp pantomime, which
• 28:07
  just happens to be about the subsequation and murder of an
• 28:11
  entire species. Paradise Towers is an insane a
• 28:16
  weird, insane domestic comedy on the stage, but it just happens
• 28:23
  to be about the decay of society and how things fall apart when
• 28:27
  there's nobody holding them together and the horrible
• 28:31
  lengths that you can go to to survive the Rezis.
• 28:35
  The Rezis, Yeah. Dragon fire, which is probably
• 28:37
  the most panto of all the whole season.
• 28:40
  I mean the ice singing trees, ice gardens, you know, all of
• 28:42
  that, the dragon and all of this I know right?
• 28:47
  But it features a scene at the end where a load of people are
• 28:49
  massacred, you know, and it has some really serious things to
• 28:54
  say. And Delton Bannerman, for all it
• 28:57
  is a 1950s comedy musical, Bastish.
• 29:01
  It's about genocide, you know, So every story has little,
• 29:05
  right, this sort of sinister undertones underneath all the
• 29:09
  glitz. Not, you know what I mean?
• 29:11
  Well, but let's not talk. About who?
• 29:14
  Ice is under glitz according to the New Adventures of God.
• 29:22
  Oh Mel, watch out, watch out. Do you know, Have you read Death
• 29:25
  in the Stars by Bonnie Langford? No, I haven't.
• 29:29
  No. Oh, so we don't know then if
• 29:30
  they had a conjugate relationship or not?
• 29:33
  No, let's not think about it. No, no, no, I'd rather.
• 29:36
  Not God. She got a lift with a gringo
• 29:39
  afterwards, you know. Well, look, should we dare to
• 29:46
  press play on episode 1? This may now be the longest
• 29:49
  intro to a hamster episode of all time.
• 29:53
  Send the episode there. Yeah, we probably should start
• 29:55
  this at some point. And cut it there, OK.
• 29:59
  Bye everyone. Right, we're going to go and
• 30:03
  I'll find and watch it without you.
• 30:04
  Now would you, would you guys count us in?
• 30:07
  OK, I'll count us in right. So let's.
• 30:09
  Can you count it in in Tollmaster please?
• 30:15
  Oh God, what's the Ken Dodd voice?
• 30:17
  You. We're going to no countdown.
• 30:22
  We'll start in 54321. That could be an amazing Ken
• 30:30
  Dodd impression. I just had no idea he sounded
• 30:33
  like that. You know I.
• 30:34
  Absolutely cannot do it. But he's like, I can't do it.
• 30:38
  I can't do. It we were some we was both
• 30:40
  there, right paused on, of course, on the screen, weren't
• 30:43
  we? We were saying before the
• 30:44
  recording, the tiny little dot, the first star that explodes out
• 30:49
  to you. And we said to we that that it's
• 30:51
  about to explode and give us the most amazing adventures.
• 30:55
  And here we are. And here we are.
• 30:57
  I am, yeah, a big, I guess I saw the so the I saw the Colin Baker
• 31:02
  title sequence 1st and then I suppose I probably then saw the
• 31:06
  Battlefield repeat was probably the second Doctor Who story.
• 31:09
  So I guess that was the first Doctor Who story I saw all the
• 31:11
  way through was Battlefield. Colin and McCoy do you say?
• 31:14
  So you're used to white things being flung at you then?
• 31:18
  Yeah, look. At that moon in the sky.
• 31:21
  Look at that. All of that is just that first
• 31:24
  shot, then rising up over the Ridge with the moon.
• 31:27
  Yeah, like whatever you call it, paint boxed in.
• 31:30
  That's just great. Doesn't it just give you warm
• 31:32
  feelings that they're in a quarry?
• 31:34
  It really does. But it's so nicely shot.
• 31:37
  The angles are really good. OK, the terrible pop guns I hate
• 31:41
  all the way through the McCoy era, but that's can't help that.
• 31:45
  No, I think the the only time they get guns right is because
• 31:48
  Fenrir right? Because it's actual ammo.
• 31:50
  Oh yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:52
  Everything else. That sparks, isn't it?
• 31:56
  It's so annoying. When did that start?
• 31:58
  Because you don't get that in Colin do.
• 32:00
  You, I go to Crawley a lot. You know, if I if I got shot by
• 32:04
  a gun and it didn't spark, I would die going Oh, what's
• 32:07
  happening? I've been lied to all these
• 32:11
  years. Oh, run, Delta run.
• 32:13
  But what do you think about the music and this thing?
• 32:20
  I am I like kef. I mean, you know, it's if you.
• 32:23
  Know him. Do your first name basis.
• 32:26
  Is Mr. McCullough It's it's, it's energetic like that's, I
• 32:31
  think that's what the show needs at this point.
• 32:35
  James Locke did say in the Derek and the Bannermen mark 2 that he
• 32:41
  thinks Kev scoring this and Cartmel is script editing it for
• 32:45
  like 10 years in the future where TV moved a lot faster and
• 32:49
  unfortunately we've got directors are still in the late
• 32:52
  80s. Yeah, although I think Chris
• 32:55
  Clough does a really good job. I think there is some shots and
• 32:59
  some compositions which just look incredible.
• 33:01
  This looks brilliant. The TARDIS landing.
• 33:04
  And do you know what? Wouldn't that be a great panel
• 33:06
  in one of the comic strips? Oh, I mean, well, this is where
• 33:09
  I think we start getting as well Cartmel vision of it's a comic
• 33:13
  bookie, it's Halo Jones. It's the sort of that sort of
• 33:16
  universe, the a universe that has toll booths in it is
• 33:20
  amazing. What a great it's.
• 33:22
  No, Martin, a universe that has Bonnie Langford in it as.
• 33:25
  Well, that's that's also amazing.
• 33:27
  But we get toll booth here, you get freezer centre in the next
• 33:30
  episode. This is great.
• 33:31
  This is what? Freezer centre.
• 33:33
  How boring do you know what in the behind the sofa?
• 33:39
  It's so funny. They go, well, you can't even
• 33:41
  tell it is Ken Don. He's got no light on him.
• 33:43
  And then Bonnie goes no, but look, we've got great lighting
• 33:46
  on us. We look great.
• 33:50
  Now the question marks. Let's just get it out of the
• 33:53
  way. I'd rather not.
• 33:57
  I just, I think because I think Mccoy's well, OK, I'm OK with
• 34:01
  the umbrella. I think the umbrellas, all
• 34:03
  right. I fucking hate the jumper.
• 34:05
  Like the tank top. I just, I don't understand why,
• 34:11
  Because he's got a great costume.
• 34:12
  I love his pacey stuff. I love that stuff.
• 34:14
  I just think that the tank tops hideous.
• 34:16
  I watched ATV movie recently and I was like God I wish he'd
• 34:19
  looked like this. Looks amazing.
• 34:22
  Yeah, yeah, fantastic outfit and I don't mind the umbrella.
• 34:27
  Getting dogs, the rock'n'roll years.
• 34:32
  Oh, now, now, my other half was objecting very strongly.
• 34:36
  Now, don't you got to remember, he don't like fun too much, all
• 34:38
  right? Yeah, but he thinks that Stubby
• 34:41
  K and this other fella and, you know, the Hawk and Weiss Miller.
• 34:44
  Totally irrelevant to the story. I said, who cares?
• 34:47
  They're charming. Yeah, although that is my thing
• 34:50
  where I'm. I'm sort of astonished though
• 34:52
  that they didn't get cut when they're looking at the budget
• 34:54
  and they're like, OK, so we need like we're going to have two
• 34:57
  Americans in it. What?
• 34:58
  OK, I guess, but then. Are you mad J&T would rather cut
• 35:02
  Sylvester McCoy and Bonnie Langford than this pair?
• 35:05
  He's going to go without the doctor.
• 35:08
  Come on, the people love Stubby K, It's like other people love
• 35:11
  Dolores Gray. Like, you know, he was in Guys
• 35:14
  and Dolls. Come on.
• 35:15
  Coy's face when he sees Stubby K though, I mean, it just breaks
• 35:19
  into a massive grin in that behind the sofa, so clearly he's
• 35:22
  a bit of a hero to McCoy. Yeah, I mean, I think they're
• 35:26
  they're really fun in the story and they get some great lines.
• 35:30
  I figure if you and I was at a Doctor Who's story, we would be
• 35:33
  the subplot like this, you know, just stuck, stuck in a tent
• 35:37
  while all the actions going on elsewhere.
• 35:39
  Although I'm not saying what we're doing in the tent, all
• 35:41
  right. But all I'm saying is you get
• 35:44
  the flap, all right? God, so much is going on here.
• 35:49
  What's this satellite in the space?
• 35:51
  And I think, but I mean, that's a shame because you go from
• 35:53
  quite a nice model shot to then that not so good second model
• 35:57
  shot. But I.
• 35:58
  Still, Doctor Who, you know. Yeah, but that is something
• 36:00
  where I think in this one we start to see some real
• 36:04
  improvements in the visuals. And then you get into Dragon
• 36:06
  Fire where you have the incredible like ice world model
• 36:10
  and stuff at the end, which is just beautiful.
• 36:12
  And there's a few moments in Dragon Fire.
• 36:14
  Oh boy, look at this alien. How would you describe like this
• 36:18
  alien? A big piece of shit there's.
• 36:24
  Purple shit covered in eyes. Purple wobbly shit.
• 36:28
  Or a wrinkly turnip maybe? But I think because you see it
• 36:32
  so briefly, it's just quite a fun, silly little, you know,
• 36:36
  throw away things. Doctor Who be fun and silly.
• 36:39
  What is the objection? I think the Doctor Who's
• 36:42
  greatest weapon is its sense of humour.
• 36:43
  Otherwise it's bloody Star Trek. Well.
• 36:45
  We said yeah, oh, absolutely. We said this before.
• 36:48
  They didn't we about Rebus operation about yeah.
• 36:50
  There's not enough comedy, Doctor Who, there's not enough
• 36:52
  fun, Doctor Who, there's not enough capers, there's not
• 36:54
  enough romps. They we need more.
• 36:57
  Body, the brochure shows. Space Cruiser.
• 36:59
  No bus she goes. She is.
• 37:04
  I think she is at her best in this story.
• 37:06
  Oh yeah, it's a. Naturalistic setting.
• 37:09
  She doesn't really have to drive the story and so she just gets
• 37:12
  to be a human being. For a while, I think also
• 37:14
  there's something about, I don't know how much this really plays
• 37:17
  in, but I feel like Chris Clough does Mel well.
• 37:20
  Like I feel like whenever, whenever he's directing, it's
• 37:22
  like, yeah, Mel scares me. Really good.
• 37:24
  We can always play a game, I suppose.
• 37:27
  I spy. Or something.
• 37:28
  But that's but that's great. I because I, I think I was
• 37:33
  listening to one of your commentaries about this, about,
• 37:35
  I guess it was probably with Dylan on Dragon Fire about how
• 37:38
  you have Mel versus Ace and that class difference that yeah, it
• 37:42
  would have. Been great, wouldn't it?
• 37:43
  It's brilliant. Brilliant.
• 37:45
  I just still don't know how you would insert Mel went to
• 37:47
  remember a sort of Daleks, but she was supposed to be for that
• 37:50
  half of that next season. Yeah, Yeah.
• 37:53
  When you said that, I thought that was I was trying to
• 37:54
  consider that to you. How?
• 37:55
  If you fit her in, that would be absolutely brilliant to say.
• 37:59
  Hey Stoker, want a date with him?
• 38:00
  He's a Nazi, I tell you. Just.
• 38:04
  Have to get knocked on the head and stay in the delta wave
• 38:07
  augmenter for a story. When Bunny met the Taleks and
• 38:11
  Juggernauts, things like that, she was fabulous.
• 38:14
  Oh, so good. Yeah, yeah.
• 38:16
  Oh, Don Henderson. He's got a proper Crowny voice
• 38:20
  and he. Yes, I've never seen Don
• 38:22
  Henderson in anything else, but I love him in this.
• 38:24
  He was in a Red Dwarf episode, you know.
• 38:26
  Oh, he played a what they called simulant.
• 38:30
  Oh, well, you said it. I was like, OK, maybe I have
• 38:32
  seen that. Yeah.
• 38:33
  I think he was one of the simulants so sort of was very
• 38:36
  emotional and loving. I love how he punches his
• 38:40
  console when it's clearly just paper.
• 38:43
  I love it. That's because, I mean, it looks
• 38:44
  so cheap, but you've got the yeah, the cameras whizzing
• 38:48
  around. I love the Doctor, like
• 38:50
  hottering around, following them.
• 38:51
  That's great. They're bit in a minute where
• 38:53
  it's like 1-2 three o'clock 4:00 Rock 50 Bonnie's there go.
• 38:59
  This is what I signed up for, baby.
• 39:02
  Look at this bunch on the bus. Oh my God.
• 39:06
  Because surely Bonnie Langford, yeah, she must have absolutely
• 39:09
  loved getting this script, mustn't she?
• 39:10
  Just being like this is brilliant.
• 39:12
  She does say like on the behind stuff, I think she's a little
• 39:16
  bit disappointed that it's not quite as glitzy as she remembers
• 39:20
  it being. But she said it felt like a
• 39:22
  massive production because they all went away to Wales because
• 39:25
  there was all those stars in it, you know, and because they were
• 39:29
  dancing and doing things that they just don't normally do in
• 39:31
  Doctor. Who, of course, and we can only
• 39:33
  expect to you. Yeah, You know, it can only be
• 39:35
  as glitzy as they can manage within the parameters of Doctor
• 39:38
  Who, isn't it? I think it's Doctor Who goes.
• 39:40
  It's a big party. You see that probe?
• 39:42
  They're emerging from that shuttle.
• 39:45
  God that. Was a very bulbous probe, wasn't
• 39:47
  it? Wasn't.
• 39:48
  It Yeah. Why does that woman there you
• 39:51
  see the woman behind Delta? She's got the hat on.
• 39:54
  A bit like Susan from from. Polo Polo.
• 39:58
  Maybe it is. Are you off the 15th century?
• 40:02
  Venice, my dear. Oh my God, they're having the
• 40:06
  best time on this bus. This would be my worst nightmare
• 40:10
  if I had to do a bus journey. I can't stand organised fun.
• 40:14
  This is this is absolutely this looks like absolutely hell.
• 40:16
  You know that Mel, right? If she ever had to get the bus
• 40:19
  to school, she was the one that stood up at the front and went.
• 40:22
  Let's have the same song. I've made cheese and pickle
• 40:24
  sandwiches for you all. Enjoy them.
• 40:29
  Oh, here we go back to I do know what?
• 40:30
  I just love Doctor Who when it's out in the countryside like
• 40:33
  this. It, it and police boxes in the
• 40:35
  woods. Look it look.
• 40:36
  Amazing. Oh my God, And we do so much out
• 40:39
  in the countryside in this, don't we?
• 40:41
  I love all the stuff where they're sort of just driving the
• 40:43
  bikes around the. Yeah.
• 40:45
  And like, I don't know was it, did we not get that before
• 40:48
  because it was prohibitively expensive in terms of like
• 40:51
  outdoor feel outside filming I. Don't know.
• 40:54
  I mean, he used his budget, but he was far more savvy producer
• 40:58
  than people gave him any credit for.
• 41:00
  Oh, yeah. To do the all studio, all
• 41:03
  location stories. So yeah, yeah, two stories a
• 41:06
  year were just going to look terrific.
• 41:08
  Yeah. That's true, actually.
• 41:10
  But I mean, I suppose you get the woods in Mysterious Planet,
• 41:12
  don't you? The look, they look good.
• 41:14
  Yeah, well, on the beach in mind warp.
• 41:17
  Oh. Yeah, that's true.
• 41:19
  That's. True, No, you're inside for the
• 41:20
  whole of terror of the Vervoids, but who cares?
• 41:22
  It's just. No, it's heavenly.
• 41:24
  That's it. You've got a killer on board.
• 41:27
  But I don't think, yeah, I don't think Mel's been as good since
• 41:29
  Terror of the Vervoids, I think as she is in this.
• 41:32
  Yeah, we. Well, yeah.
• 41:34
  Do you remember in The Ultimate Foe, I'm as brutal, honest and
• 41:37
  about as boring as they come. Oh, please.
• 41:40
  So can you think of anything more Doctor Who than being
• 41:43
  promised Disneyland and ending up in Barry Island?
• 41:46
  No, it's, it's perfect. It's just, it's that it's
• 41:49
  absolutely perfect. This is, this is just what I
• 41:51
  want Doctor Who to be. So that sort.
• 41:55
  Of This is why Doctor Who isn't Star Trek, isn't it?
• 41:57
  Yeah. Like Star Trek would have the
• 41:58
  money. They would go to Disneyland if
• 42:00
  they were doing this story, you know, it would be stylish, just
• 42:03
  how it works. I mean, they look like they're
• 42:05
  in fucking prison cells in this holiday camp.
• 42:10
  Jesus Christ, just the whole thing of like they bumped into a
• 42:13
  satellite. Brilliant.
• 42:14
  This is, that's amazing. Wonderful.
• 42:17
  They've ended up on Barry Island.
• 42:18
  Brilliant. Fantastic.
• 42:19
  What does McCoy say? It's an extremely crude law, but
• 42:23
  what's satellite? This is a lovely tracking shot
• 42:27
  as well, of them all walking towards the holiday camp.
• 42:29
  Yeah. I, I really do rate Chris Clark.
• 42:33
  Chris Clark's one of those where I sort of I, I was sort of a bit
• 42:36
  surprised he didn't get bought back in the new series, but I
• 42:40
  guess maybe it's because he produces now and he.
• 42:42
  Doesn't he had a career? Yeah, yeah.
• 42:46
  I mean he did skins didn't he? And all sorts of his skins had
• 42:49
  big hits. On him.
• 42:50
  Big, big yeah. Not as big as Terra the Verve
• 42:53
  voice, of course, but. Obviously not, no.
• 42:55
  No Start strong. Not a patch on Delta, but you
• 42:58
  know. Why is that man at the back
• 43:00
  there wearing a Mexican sort of hat?
• 43:04
  Where's he think he's going? They're all getting off at
• 43:07
  different places along the way. One of them was going to China
• 43:11
  15th century. Of course there's a time
• 43:13
  travelling bus, isn't it? Yeah, see.
• 43:15
  You in a bit. He's off to the Aztecs, you
• 43:17
  know, to see Quixy Pottsall or whatever his name is.
• 43:21
  But I quite like that it's quite relaxed about time travel as
• 43:24
  well. They're just like, fuck it, it's
• 43:25
  a time travel show. Of course, the holiday talk and
• 43:27
  time travel like, why not? But just these kids, right?
• 43:31
  Just playing hula hoop and football and the the the maids
• 43:35
  doing the washing. It's just so down to earth and
• 43:39
  domestic in a way that Doctor Who just hasn't been for about 5
• 43:42
  years. No.
• 43:43
  And and of course, and it's going to we Doctor Who's going
• 43:46
  to then stay in those domestic settings will get remembrance of
• 43:49
  the Daleks, will get survival. They like it.
• 43:51
  They sort of know now what they can do.
• 43:54
  They understand their understanding or starting to
• 43:55
  understand their strengths. I, I, I'm going to be a bit mad
• 43:59
  now, but like, I do like 25 and 26.
• 44:02
  Yeah, as terrible as silver embassies.
• 44:06
  I mean wonderfully terrible. Wonderfully terrible, of course.
• 44:09
  I do think it gets a bit too serious in places and I like I
• 44:14
  like the fact that this is domestic and a bit silly.
• 44:18
  Yeah. And I think also a lot because
• 44:21
  probably in some ways because they started to understand the
• 44:23
  limitations of their budgets, some of the invention disappears
• 44:28
  in 25 and 26. Oh, they're still they're still
• 44:30
  great. And I don't want to kind of
• 44:31
  criticise the work they do that. But you don't get anything like
• 44:34
  Delta after this, you know, you don't get.
• 44:36
  Anything shame? Yeah, it really is a shame.
• 44:39
  I think in that reject version of the Happiness Patrol, you
• 44:42
  know, they put in like all the extra ice on the building.
• 44:45
  I feel like if that had actually looked like that, it would have
• 44:48
  felt like a bit a bit more like this kind of invention.
• 44:52
  But I mean, you know that not that they weren't trying.
• 44:55
  I think 25 and 26 are great, but there's something really vibrant
• 44:59
  and original feeling about 24, I think.
• 45:02
  I think I could probably do it in two lines all right.
• 45:06
  I think I'd rather have male sort of dancing around and go no
• 45:11
  doctor, I'm having a great time. I'd rather that sort of domestic
• 45:15
  than or didn't know she was my mum from Cursor Fenrick.
• 45:19
  You know, I know Rich 1 is more enjoyable to watch and less
• 45:22
  painful. Bless.
• 45:25
  Oh, here's Billy. Oh boy, oh boy.
• 45:29
  I'd say get sucking on that green juice.
• 45:31
  Billy, you're coming with me. He's beautiful.
• 45:35
  We've got adventures to have. I mean come on now, he is very
• 45:40
  pretty. JNT was definitely in the
• 45:44
  casting call that day, but too ugly.
• 45:48
  But everyone kind of, not necessarily everyone's really
• 45:51
  attractive, but everyone looks great in this story.
• 45:54
  Everyone has like a very identifiable look to them, which
• 45:57
  is really, really nice. No2 characters look the same.
• 45:59
  It's not like a say word. Everyone on the space station is
• 46:02
  the same character sort of thing.
• 46:04
  This is very much. Literally we're back to smoking
• 46:06
  fags again, aren't? We on the space station.
• 46:09
  Sorry, I was paying attention then, but Billy was bending over
• 46:13
  in his work overall so. Oh, so all we've got to do is
• 46:17
  get that crystal working and then the bus will fly off again?
• 46:20
  So Ray having the socket wrench is fantastic that that and that
• 46:25
  you can almost sort of see like how she could work as the
• 46:28
  companion. Yes, we might have to drop the
• 46:31
  accent though. Oh my God, Yeah.
• 46:33
  Oh it. Was the Candyman Imagine.
• 46:37
  She can get hit by a bit of exploding lighthouse and it
• 46:39
  knocks her in the head and changes.
• 46:41
  Perfect. Perfect.
• 46:43
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 46:45
  Well, I mean, take a listen to that audio and you tell me what
• 46:48
  you think, OK? Yeah, I will at some point.
• 46:50
  And I think they only did them, you know, so Sarah Griffiths
• 46:53
  could do a few more conventions and have something to flog.
• 46:57
  Bless her. But I mean, they, I think also
• 47:01
  they they do, you can tell that they're really trying to make
• 47:05
  Ray really likable. Yeah.
• 47:08
  And, and, and I think it sort of works, but I, I mean, ultimately
• 47:11
  I'm glad that they didn't go with her.
• 47:14
  Oh. You mad we ended up with bloody
• 47:17
  Sophie Aldridge? Oh no.
• 47:21
  I'm not going to join you. This this is the last time
• 47:24
  classic Doctor Who lacked embarrassment for me from this
• 47:28
  point on and it's all downhill. The cringe factor was too great.
• 47:32
  But I think but also what's the name?
• 47:34
  Not but and he said Belinda Lang.
• 47:36
  It isn't Belinda Lang, is it? Belinda, Oh.
• 47:37
  Bloody wish. Yeah, wouldn't that be amazing?
• 47:45
  I have the whole cast of 2.4 children.
• 47:47
  This you know. I like being in Doctor.
• 47:49
  Who? She's done a couple of big
• 47:50
  finishes and she was fantastic. I bet she was OK.
• 47:54
  Don't you remember Claire Buckfield in the One?
• 47:56
  Doctor Sally? Yeah.
• 47:57
  Oh yeah, yeah, of course. Claire Buckfield was amazing.
• 48:00
  But so what's, what's her name? Belinda, Maine.
• 48:04
  Is that yes, yes, sorry, yes. Less well known actress.
• 48:08
  Yeah, well, I don't think she's that good, but she's sort of
• 48:11
  peppy. She's quite sort of fun.
• 48:14
  She she's quite watchable. Oh, she's quite serious, isn't
• 48:16
  she? Yeah, but I sort of like that
• 48:19
  she's doing like I think she's she's sort of taking the the the
• 48:22
  character has written and doing quite well you.
• 48:24
  Can't shoot Ken Dodd in the back.
• 48:27
  What the hell do you think you're doing, Dodson?
• 48:29
  I think this is one of those. Again, it's like an age thing,
• 48:32
  but I just don't know Ken Dodd. I mean I know who he is because
• 48:36
  I've read who he is sort of thing, but I have like no point
• 48:39
  of reference really for his tickling sticks and whatever it
• 48:41
  was. Oh my God I fucking love McCoy
• 48:45
  taking the apple and just tickling his head with it.
• 48:49
  He is just has that natural eccentricity, isn't he?
• 48:52
  If only they didn't require him to act.
• 48:54
  It would be, well, I think that well, it's certain things as
• 48:57
  well where you see all of the behind the scenes publicity
• 49:00
  photos they do and stuff look incredible.
• 49:04
  And like, if you look at those from the McCoy area, you're
• 49:06
  like, wow, there's like, it's so stylish, but that's not actually
• 49:09
  what we're seeing. On screen, my child looks up in
• 49:12
  the sky, but even this look, someone just sitting down at the
• 49:21
  table to a man and a woman admiring in each other.
• 49:25
  Bonnie, I'm determined to enjoy myself if I can.
• 49:31
  Obviously you I think we we went past it.
• 49:33
  You mentioned the one doctor really wrong, but you get that
• 49:36
  line in this where Delta's like can you be trusted and she's
• 49:38
  like, yes, completely such a. Great line.
• 49:43
  Oh boy, you ready for this? Well, I never felt more like
• 49:47
  singing the Blues because I never fought that I'd ever lose
• 49:51
  your love. Babe.
• 49:54
  I'm a bit early, sorry. But but I think also this is
• 49:57
  this is stuff that's so like Ray having kind of unrequited love
• 50:01
  for Billy, the way that Billy calls Ray Rachel.
• 50:03
  It's so heartbreaking. It's just like, no, but but
• 50:06
  like, that's very UN Doctor Who. But it's friend zoning someone
• 50:10
  in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:11
  But all of that stuff, getting into those character
• 50:14
  relationships that apart from, you know, like Ian and Barbara
• 50:17
  or or my favourites, Greg and Petra from Inferno, but.
• 50:21
  You don't. I'm frightened.
• 50:24
  You don't really get those sort of the the deepest like
• 50:27
  relationship exploration. I think you get, which is weird
• 50:30
  because they never actually spend time on screen is
• 50:33
  Stottandela in Nightmare of Eden where she's like, I've lost the
• 50:38
  man I loved and stuff and she and they actually kind of get
• 50:41
  into that a little bit, but then they never meet up again and you
• 50:44
  sort of don't get the exploration of that.
• 50:45
  You think the most realistic relationship is the toxic
• 50:49
  marriage between Eric and Etta in central Somvaros?
• 50:52
  That to me. To be fair, it's very realistic,
• 50:55
  yes, actually, I haven't said. That mind this bit where he says
• 50:59
  a romantic song from across the pond for a very special lady in
• 51:01
  the audience and Ray looks so happy and then she's heartbroken
• 51:06
  when he looks at Delta. Like that's not just, we haven't
• 51:09
  done this before. We don't do this again.
• 51:12
  No. And then also when the doc, she
• 51:13
  then immediately the doctors like Ray.
• 51:15
  I was wondering if she's like, yes, that's her.
• 51:16
  I'd love to. And they just start dancing.
• 51:18
  Colin wouldn't dance. I mean, brilliant.
• 51:20
  I just say it though, I would love to.
• 51:23
  See it just chucking her across the floor?
• 51:26
  It'd be like twin Twin Dilemma again.
• 51:27
  I mean, you say that. Do you remember the Colin audio,
• 51:30
  The Bahia Moth, where he's suddenly in a Pride and
• 51:32
  Prejudice star romance? And I'm like, how are they going
• 51:36
  to pull this off? Our Colin can do anything, you
• 51:39
  know. Can he?
• 51:40
  Absolutely can. I think it's more they wouldn't
• 51:42
  have done it with him. It's like the, you know, the,
• 51:44
  the Eric Saywood wouldn't have done it.
• 51:46
  Oh God. The man with the Mexican hat
• 51:49
  there he was looking very high. He was sort of fanning himself
• 51:52
  all this fun. But I like this, too.
• 51:55
  The doctor's got like, he's running out, he's after Delta,
• 51:58
  but then he stops to comfort Ray.
• 51:59
  That's really adorable as well. When you slap Twix Cup in a lap.
• 52:06
  I am really, really happy that the malapropism stop after this
• 52:09
  one though. Come in and it's like, all
• 52:12
  right, no, it's not working. I still say at work a bad
• 52:16
  Workman blames his fools and then I correct myself.
• 52:20
  Tools blames his tools. So sorry.
• 52:23
  But I think the music is actually really good.
• 52:26
  I think like there's sort of, I think everything about this end
• 52:29
  of episode works really, really well.
• 52:32
  Oh, you know what, Martin? I don't just kill for money, you
• 52:34
  know. Something I enjoy that's I love
• 52:39
  that, I love that it's such a throwaway character as well of
• 52:43
  just like he's popping in just for the kit hanger basically.
• 52:47
  What's the behind the scenes about that fella?
• 52:49
  I swear there's a story about him.
• 52:50
  Isn't he famous? This guy, isn't he in a band?
• 52:55
  Oh God, is he? I've actually I think he is.
• 52:58
  Yeah. Do you know what?
• 52:59
  I'll do a little bit of research between episodes. 1:00 and 2:00
• 53:01
  we'll find out like, Oh yeah, that's him.
• 53:03
  I swear he's in a band. He's not in Yazoo, is he?
• 53:07
  Or something like that? What's?
• 53:09
  The with the with the woman from unit.
• 53:15
  I mean, we're not there yet, but where there's shoe smoke is Blue
• 53:18
  Swede. Shoes.
• 53:18
  Oh, absolutely incredible. What is it like Guitar's like,
• 53:21
  down, down, down, down. Oh, no.
• 53:25
  Oh, look at Mel's bum in those pyjamas.
• 53:29
  Oh yeah, Bloody hell. Do you know what for a certain
• 53:31
  man this would be like Bonnie Langford and PJS.
• 53:35
  Bonnie Langford and PJS What's? It doing for your mind?
• 53:38
  Come on. I'm too distracted by this egg
• 53:43
  but but. What the fuck is that?
• 53:46
  Like what? I know that like, you know,
• 53:48
  Bonnie is such a pro, but Mel just screaming like an absolute
• 53:51
  lunatic. It's like Mel, calm down.
• 53:53
  Like it's not that bad. Excuse me, if that great green
• 53:57
  lummox came smashing out of an egg in my living room, I
• 54:00
  wouldn't be sitting there going oh, hello.
• 54:04
  But this is this is so he's like, you know, it's so
• 54:08
  doctorish to be like, you know, she's not worth anything to you.
• 54:10
  Like don't like take me instead. And he's like, no, no, what?
• 54:13
  Does college say in the twin dilemma?
• 54:15
  Take her, not me. But I love the idea that we're
• 54:19
  in this universe where there are just hits out on the Doctor.
• 54:22
  I remember, I remember really hoping in new series when you
• 54:26
  get that bit in the stolen Earth where the Doctor runs off and
• 54:29
  you get the Shadow Proclamation woman being like Doctor come
• 54:32
  back. I genuinely was hoping that
• 54:34
  would lead to a storyline where they're like the doctors, like
• 54:37
  there's an arrest warrant out for the doctor.
• 54:39
  I just wanted people hunting the doctor sort of secondary to the
• 54:43
  main story. Well, that was the end of the
• 54:45
  Timeless Children, wasn't it? That you didn't finally come up.
• 54:47
  With it, yeah. Which I actually genuinely
• 54:49
  thought that was what the thing was.
• 54:51
  I was like, Oh yeah, finally we. Got an arrest warrant for you?
• 54:54
  We're five seasons late. Exactly.
• 54:58
  But I think that's, I love that. And I think it's just really
• 55:00
  because, I mean, because Malcolm Cole and just having the South
• 55:03
  African hitman as well is it's just an accent we've not really
• 55:07
  heard before. That's quite nice as well.
• 55:10
  And just having him looking a bit Elvis means we're leaning
• 55:13
  into the 1950s period stuff as well.
• 55:15
  Which is also just perfect. Yeah, brilliant.
• 55:18
  The thing that battled me in the behind the sofa, right, Well, it
• 55:21
  was Peter Davis and Janet Fielding and Sarah's Sutton and.
• 55:24
  No one was. Very little pleased.
• 55:26
  It's the three of them. Every now and again they'll find
• 55:29
  something to enjoy, but not a lot.
• 55:31
  Weirdly enough, they had great fun with Paradise Towers.
• 55:34
  They said that was great and this was silly.
• 55:37
  OK if. You like?
• 55:40
  But they were sort of going, oh, it's just like a load of 1950s
• 55:43
  cliches, a real sort of mishmash thrown together.
• 55:46
  Yes, that's the idea. Try and have some fun with it.
• 55:51
  Yeah, as a scene setter, though, I mean, it's not at all where
• 55:56
  you expect it to go, but it's a delight that it gets there,
• 55:59
  right? Oh, absolutely.
• 56:01
  And it's just something like, imagine just catching that on TV
• 56:04
  randomly. I just feel like you wouldn't be
• 56:06
  able to stop watching it. Like like, where is this going
• 56:09
  next? What is happening?
• 56:10
  You would say, what has happened to the magic of Doctor Who?
• 56:17
  Ian Levine's chucking bricks through his television, but
• 56:19
  everyone else is having a great time.
• 56:21
  But also, I mean, again, thinking about the, you know,
• 56:24
  sort of casual viewers and OK, there is the thing which I think
• 56:27
  you talked about on another commentary where it it's like
• 56:31
  it's it should be, this is great CBBC TV, but it was going out at
• 56:38
  7:30 or whatever. It's like, maybe that's not it
• 56:41
  wasn't quite where it needed to be in the schedules.
• 56:44
  That's not the show's fault. That's, you know, that's the
• 56:47
  BBC's fault. But it's like there is something
• 56:49
  like it's just. But also, that 7:30-ish lot was
• 56:52
  always a mistake. Yeah.
• 56:54
  Oh, terrible mistake. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:55
  That was just that was just really wrong headed across the
• 56:58
  board. I suppose you get around to
• 57:00
  Curves and there's a bloody massacre in episode 4.
• 57:02
  Like a fact. Fuck.
• 57:03
  We put this on at 7:30. Oh my God, imagine getting that
• 57:06
  just before neighbors. That would be absolutely
• 57:08
  amazing. It would be in heaven, wouldn't
• 57:09
  they? But.
• 57:10
  They really he would. I can't think of anything
• 57:13
  better. It's like things like you get
• 57:14
  admitted a bit later on, but you get like Russell T Davies,
• 57:18
  Century Falls, which is so creepy and just batshit, but
• 57:23
  that be on at 4:30 or whatever it was, It's just absolutely
• 57:27
  amazing. Century Falls, the one with the
• 57:29
  really terrible central performance by the girl.
• 57:33
  Yes, that's all I remember about that, but.
• 57:36
  You've got the girl, the main girl who's sort of quite
• 57:38
  useless, but then she sort of befriends the the two creepy
• 57:41
  kids. They're like.
• 57:43
  They're pretty good, aren't they?
• 57:44
  They're pretty good. I think what I think he actually
• 57:47
  went on to have like a bit of a career.
• 57:50
  But I just remember how there's the scene when they meet and the
• 57:53
  the girl's like, oh, a stranger in town.
• 57:56
  What what what do you think? And the brother just looks at
• 57:59
  her and goes that oh. Fucking hell that that didn't
• 58:04
  make me laugh though. I.
• 58:06
  Did it? Made me?
• 58:07
  Absolutely. It was a different time tonight
• 58:09
  it. Was a different time.
• 58:11
  This is the thing the only what you could do on children's
• 58:13
  television in the early 90s was very different what you can get.
• 58:16
  What's the one where the fabulous sort of great big
• 58:19
  mechanical robot came rising up out of the school with chuckling
• 58:23
  Pierce inside it? That had a really terrible lead
• 58:26
  as well. What Kate Winslet?
• 58:30
  No, you know, I mean, she was sort of, I think she was quite
• 58:34
  big as well. Wouldn't.
• 58:35
  She well, what they but what was brilliant is they did the big
• 58:37
  finish follow up to dark season and you that it's her who's the
• 58:42
  the big returning character. So Kate Winslet just sort of
• 58:45
  turns up and he's like all right, and then it's like
• 58:48
  building to the return of this other person.
• 58:50
  He's just not an actress at all, but it's great.
• 58:54
  Well, you know what? Well, we must create the podcast
• 58:57
  one day. The Extraneous Children's Show
• 58:59
  is created by a doctor. Ashley.
• 59:01
  There's probably something in that, you know.
• 59:03
  To be honest, I mean, yeah, well, there's a lot of falls
• 59:05
  into that thing of the things that were like Doctor Who
• 59:07
  replacements when Doctor Who wasn't on iPods, like iPods.
• 59:12
  I was gonna say Uncle Jack. I bloody loved Uncle Jack.
• 59:14
  Well, that is Super Gran. She was my Doctor Who for the
• 59:17
  early 90s. She'd have been such a good
• 59:20
  doctor. Who do you?
• 59:21
  Remember that theme tune? Do you remember it?
• 59:28
  Yeah. And of course our Garon was the
• 59:31
  villain in that. Oh, wonderful.
• 59:34
  What's that one we were talking about in the image of the Fender
• 59:36
  Children of the Stones? Oh yeah, I mean, that's that's
• 59:39
  amazing. Very, very creepy.
• 59:42
  But that's what children, what children want to be creeps out
• 59:45
  and have stories that don't necessarily make any sense.
• 59:48
  So things, things like Delta and the Badlands.
• 59:50
  Brilliant. Stick that in.
• 59:51
  So sorry everybody, we're doing our admin here for a podcast
• 59:55
  that we're creating in the future.
• 59:57
  Thank you for sticking with us. I suppose I'll just say at the
• 1:00:00
  end of episode 1, Here's to the future Martin Episode 2.
• 1:00:04
  Love is the answer.