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34 - Why Men Need to Lead in Relationships · Masculine Containment

• 0:01
  Whenever I make a post on social media and I even mention the words lead or leadership along with men, the comments tend to be something like relationships don't need leaders.
• 0:13
  Leadership is patriarchal.
• 0:15
  Relationships should be equal.
• 0:16
  Women don't need men leading them.
• 0:19
  And a lot of other even more aggressive statements.
• 0:23
  And that's why I wanted to record this episode because I think it's important to give a counterpoint.
• 0:29
  I think it's important to give an opinion that doesn't agree with those statements.
• 0:35
  But I do want to first just make sure that it's understood I agree with the concern.
• 0:40
  Now, I absolutely believe there are places that men need to lead in relationships, and I'm going to share those in a moment.
• 0:47
  I actually think there's a strong reason why men need to lead in relationships.
• 0:52
  But I want to just make clear that I agree with the concern that some of those comments are pointing out.
• 0:58
  You know, if leadership meant dominance or if leadership meant control or authority over another person or being able to tell them what to do when they don't want to or being able to demand from them, I wouldn't teach that.
• 1:11
  In fact, unfortunately, there is a lot, I mean, a lot of men's leaders who are teaching that kind of stuff.
• 1:19
  They're teaching dominance.
• 1:20
  They're teaching control.
• 1:21
  They're teaching manipulation.
• 1:22
  Yeah.
• 1:23
  Those things, I don't feel like those are leadership.
• 1:25
  I feel like they're dominance, control, and manipulation.
• 1:27
  You know, leadership is different.
• 1:29
  Leadership is where you behave in a way where you inspire other people.
• 1:33
  Leadership is leading yourself first so that you're present, you're grounded, you're aware.
• 1:38
  Leadership is creating an environment where you are followed, not demanding that you should be followed.
• 1:44
  So I'm not talking about leading over your partner or having control or dominance over your partner.
• 1:50
  I'm talking about.
• 1:51
  For men, for us, one of the most important things that I've learned in my relationship, and really it's not just in my relationship, it's actually one of the most important things I've learned in my life, is that leadership is leading yourself where it matters most.
• 2:08
  And I say that as someone who has led multiple multi-million dollar businesses, as someone who's independently wealthy, as someone who's had a lot of success in my life.
• 2:18
  One of the most important things I've learned is leading myself is one of the most important disciplines that there is.
• 2:25
  And so here's what I mean by that.
• 2:27
  And to give you an idea of what that looks like for me.
• 2:30
  For me, leadership is taking responsibility before you're asked to take responsibility.
• 2:35
  So if you've made a mistake, if you've said something wrong, if you've stepped out of line, if you've exploded or caused a rupture or imploded and pulled your energy away, before you're asked, go take responsibility for it.
• 2:50
  It's regulating before reacting.
• 2:51
  I used to have a huge problem with this one.
• 2:54
  In fact...
• 2:56
  There were so many situations, especially as a business leader, where I became unregulated so that I could get something done.
• 3:02
  When I had to fire somebody, it was always emotional for me.
• 3:05
  It was hard for me.
• 3:05
  It was challenging for me.
• 3:06
  So I'd get angry at the person.
• 3:07
  I look back at that and I'm like, holy cow, what a crazy way to behave.
• 3:12
  regulating before reacting or regulating in every situation is a way to approach a situation where you're present, you're grounded, you're aware, you're not causing rupture, you're not causing challenges for those around you.
• 3:23
  It's creating safety instead of intensity.
• 3:26
  You know, there's this myth in leadership that if the people who work for you are intimidated, if they're scared, if they feel somewhat uneasy or uncertain, they're going to work so much harder for you.
• 3:38
  And I just, I don't believe that.
• 3:40
  I think you get less capacity from someone who's in one of those states.
• 3:43
  And so leadership is about creating safety.
• 3:46
  And instead of creating intensity, it's taking ownership of your impact, not just your intentions.
• 3:51
  This is a big one.
• 3:53
  You know, a lot of men say things like,
• 3:56
  I would never hurt her.
• 3:57
  I would never do anything to her.
• 3:59
  I love her.
• 4:00
  I would protect her.
• 4:00
  I protect her from the world.
• 4:02
  But they don't realize when there's a conflict and they're exploding or imploding, when they're bringing too much energy or pulling away all their energy and withdrawing, they have a massive impact on her, on the person that they love the most, or just about anybody, their kids, somebody they work with, a colleague, whoever it is.
• 4:20
  And so leading is taking ownership of the impact, not the intention.
• 4:24
  Your intentions can be good.
• 4:25
  Your intentions can be pure.
• 4:27
  Your intentions can be trying to do the right thing.
• 4:29
  But if you act in a way where you cause an impact, it's taking ownership.
• 4:35
  And leadership is influence under pressure.
• 4:38
  You know, this is a big one.
• 4:39
  As men, when we're under pressure, when we have a lot going on, when the pressure and noise in our lives gets really high, we tend to react.
• 4:45
  We tend to get out of our bodies.
• 4:48
  We tend to get into a place where we are reactive.
• 4:52
  And if we can create influence under pressure through regulating
• 4:56
  It changes things.
• 4:57
  See, leadership isn't about who gets the final say.
• 5:00
  Something is men we need to give up.
• 5:02
  It's about who takes first responsibility.
• 5:06
  I think there are three places where men should be willing to lead in a relationship.
• 5:10
  In fact, I think these are absolutely necessary for a healthy relationship in almost all cases.
• 5:17
  I mean, I haven't found a case where this isn't necessary, but this
• 5:22
  I think that as men, we need to lead by resolving conflict before it begins.
• 5:28
  If you've listened to my podcast, you know, this is kind of one of the key tenets behind masculine containment.
• 5:33
  It's that we need to get into a place where we're not allowing a pattern of consistent conflict.
• 5:41
  escalation in our relationship.
• 5:43
  In fact, in most relationships, most heterosexual relationships that I've talked to, and, you know, these might be the same in same-sex relationships.
• 5:50
  I'm not sure.
• 5:50
  I'm not in one, and I teach from a lived experience.
• 5:53
  But here's what I know in my relationship with Katie.
• 5:57
  There was a constant pattern in our relationship of trigger.
• 6:02
  Something got us, like, threw us off.
• 6:04
  Then an escalation where the energy went up.
• 6:07
  Then a rupture because the energy goes up.
• 6:09
  There's, like, something that happens where it ruptures.
• 6:11
  And then you have to withdraw.
• 6:13
  and then come back and try and repair.
• 6:15
  And most couples don't even know they're in this pattern until the rupture, until they're in that place of rupture, withdraw, and then coming back later to repair.
• 6:25
  Because as human beings, we get triggered, and it's normal to get triggered.
• 6:31
  It's actually like something that happens to every single one of us, me included.
• 6:35
  I've studied masculine containment for years now, and I still get triggered.
• 6:40
  But here's the difference.
• 6:41
  you're not responsible for the fact that you got triggered.
• 6:44
  You need to take responsibility for what happens next.
• 6:47
  And I can share with you very transparently what you see happen in my relationship.
• 6:51
  There would be a trigger present.
• 6:53
  And now that I have a different pattern, which I'll share with you in a moment, I now look back and I know the trigger would be present and I would escalate.
• 7:02
  I would escalate before I even knew what I was doing.
• 7:04
  Something in my body would say, bring more energy or pull way out of this.
• 7:09
  For me, most of the time it was bring more energy.
• 7:10
  Men are...
• 7:11
  Kind of on two ends of a spectrum.
• 7:13
  We either bring more energy and escalate or we take the energy out of the room and escalate.
• 7:17
  So withdrawing is just as challenging as bringing too much energy sometimes depending on who you're in the room with.
• 7:25
  Either way, you're not present.
• 7:27
  You're not there.
• 7:27
  You're not aware.
• 7:28
  And so there'd be a trigger present.
• 7:30
  I would escalate.
• 7:31
  Usually I'd explode.
• 7:32
  There would be a rupture, usually because I was like trying to end the conversation, not trying to understand.
• 7:37
  I was trying to win.
• 7:38
  I was trying to get out of it.
• 7:39
  I was trying to make it stop.
• 7:41
  And then we would withdraw.
• 7:43
  And during those withdrawal periods, I can tell you from a personal experience, I was not productive.
• 7:49
  During those withdrawal periods, I was like maybe getting stuff done, but I was in my head and I was frustrated and I was like working at reduced capacity.
• 7:59
  Maybe even I would from the outside looking in from the outside, it would look productive.
• 8:04
  But from the inside, it was me just spinning in my head, looping and feeling like uncomfortable and triggered and like we weren't, you know, in a good place.
• 8:14
  And here's what I realized doing this work and understanding masculine containment is that when there's a trigger present and your body reacts most of the time, almost all the time, you're reacting to something that's not in the present.
• 8:27
  Because to be completely and totally transparent and honest and maybe even a little vulnerable, I used to react as though there was violence present.
• 8:37
  I used to react as though there was a real physical threat to me.
• 8:41
  There'd be a trigger and I would escalate as though I was under threat, as though there was actually violence coming at me.
• 8:48
  And it took me forever to figure this out.
• 8:51
  Way, way, way too long.
• 8:53
  But what I realized was...
• 8:55
  I wasn't under physical threat.
• 8:57
  Let's be really clear about me and my wife, Katie.
• 9:00
  You know, I love her more than anything.
• 9:02
  I'm six foot two and I weigh over 200 pounds.
• 9:05
  My wife is five foot four, almost five foot four.
• 9:09
  She's tiny.
• 9:10
  And in a physical competition of any kind, she's going to have a really hard time.
• 9:16
  I'm a man.
• 9:16
  She's a woman.
• 9:17
  She's tiny.
• 9:17
  You know, I'm a trained martial artist.
• 9:19
  Like there was absolutely no danger in the present for me when there
• 9:24
  There was a trigger present.
• 9:25
  Why am I reacting as though there's danger present?
• 9:29
  Because of my wounding and my childhood trauma and my conditioning and all the times I got yelled at or laughed at or made fun of or had an issue or whatever it was in my past.
• 9:38
  All of those moments would come right into the present and I'd react as though those things were there and they weren't.
• 9:45
  So it took me forever to understand this because...
• 9:49
  The more I understood containment, the more I stopped noticing this pattern when we were at rupture and then withdraw and repair.
• 9:57
  I started noticing this pattern all the way back at the trigger.
• 10:01
  I would feel the activation in my body.
• 10:03
  And this is leading yourself.
• 10:05
  This is actually dominating yourself, not her.
• 10:07
  This is creating an energetic of male masculine dominance.
• 10:12
  You know, masculine and feminine gets misunderstood so often.
• 10:15
  But part of masculinity is dominance, not dominance over the other person.
• 10:18
  Dominance over you.
• 10:19
  Dominion over you.
• 10:21
  So I would feel activated in my body.
• 10:24
  And I had to create an entirely new pattern.
• 10:27
  Instead of trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw, and repair, it was trigger, and I'd feel the activation of my body and slow things down.
• 10:35
  I'd start breathing.
• 10:37
  I'd get curious.
• 10:38
  Like, what's going on here?
• 10:40
  And why am I reacting like I am?
• 10:42
  And what is this trigger all about?
• 10:44
  And...
• 10:45
  And when I look back, it feels tragic how many times Katie and I went from trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw and repair when she just needed something from me.
• 10:57
  It feels terrible to even share this.
• 10:59
  But there were times, looking back, you know, I've become a realist about this because I'm on the other side of this pattern now and I can look back and I can...
• 11:10
  Vulnerably and honestly say there was times where I walked into the room and I would say something to Katie and she would react with triggered energy.
• 11:17
  She would react because she was frustrated or upset or needed attention for some reason outside of what was going on between the two of us.
• 11:25
  And because she had emotions present, I would pounce and I would come right back at her just as hard instead of saying, hey, is there something wrong?
• 11:33
  Hey, it feels like there might be something going on for you.
• 11:37
  Hey, gorgeous, I love you more than anything.
• 11:39
  Are you okay?
• 11:40
  That's what I do now.
• 11:41
  But back then, she would react with energy, and then I would come right back at her with energy, and we would escalate, and there'd be withdrawal, rupture, and then someday trying to repair.
• 11:50
  And as we did that over and over and over and over again, we finally got to the day where my wife said, I don't feel seen, I don't feel heard, I don't feel safe, and if something doesn't change, I can't do this anymore.
• 12:02
  And that created a motivation in me to figure this out.
• 12:07
  And what I figured out is the best conflict is the one that doesn't ever happen.
• 12:12
  Because you feel the trigger and rather than allowing it to escalate, breathing, slowing down, getting curious, then regulating before reacting so you can respond.
• 12:24
  And today I choose not to escalate.
• 12:27
  You know, a lot of times I think as men, we've been trained that if we don't escalate, we're not doing something right.
• 12:34
  Or we're doing something wrong.
• 12:35
  We're missing it.
• 12:37
  But the reality is if we don't escalate, we create safety.
• 12:40
  If we don't escalate, we can get curious and understand what's actually going on.
• 12:43
  If we don't escalate, we can break the pattern where it starts instead of living the pattern over and over and over again like Katie and I did in our relationship.
• 12:53
  It was horrible.
• 12:56
  We used to play that pattern out in front of therapists.
• 12:58
  We used to play that pattern out like when we were with other people sometimes.
• 13:01
  We used to play that pattern out in front of our kids.
• 13:03
  And I look back and I'm like, man, I wish I had learned this sooner because you don't have to do it.
• 13:09
  You don't have to go through that pattern.
• 13:11
  It's not a given.
• 13:11
  It's not a foregone conclusion.
• 13:13
  You as a man can lead during conflict.
• 13:16
  You lead yourself and you lead the situation to a different conclusion.
• 13:21
  You know, now if I walk into the room and I say something to Katie and she responds with emotions, instead of getting triggered and escalating, I might feel the trigger.
• 13:30
  And then I stop myself and I remind myself, hey, her emotions aren't a threat.
• 13:35
  Even though my whole life I've been trained, emotions are a threat, right?
• 13:38
  Because as men, we've been told don't cry.
• 13:39
  Don't get too loud.
• 13:42
  Don't get too angry.
• 13:43
  Don't get frustrated.
• 13:44
  Don't get this.
• 13:45
  Don't get that.
• 13:45
  We've been trained.
• 13:46
  Emotions are a threat and that we need to stamp ours down so we should stamp somebody else's down too.
• 13:52
  But now when I feel emotions on Katie's side, if I feel a trigger, I start breathing and I get curious and I ask her questions.
• 14:00
  And that curiosity leads to regulation and me being able to respond.
• 14:05
  And choosing not to escalate actually creates connection.
• 14:09
  So think about that.
• 14:10
  Such a massive difference in your relationship.
• 14:12
  It will literally change everything.
• 14:14
  It has for me and it has for the men that I work with in the brotherhood.
• 14:17
  When you go from trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw, and then trying to repair to trigger, breathing, regulation, curiosity, and connection, think about what this pattern does over and over again and what this pattern does over and over again.
• 14:32
  On this side, you are creating emotional security.
• 14:34
  You're creating safety and you're creating connection.
• 14:37
  It will change everything.
• 14:39
  The challenge in the world today, and just know this going in, like if you're listening to other podcasts, if you're reading other books, if you're following other relationship experts, most relationship advice teaches us how to repair after the damage.
• 14:52
  Very little teaches us how to interrupt the pattern before the damage happens, and that's where I live.
• 14:57
  That's where I focus.
• 14:58
  That's what I train men.
• 14:59
  That's what I think changes everything.
• 15:02
  Now, the second place where I think men need to repair, where you and I as a man have opportunity to change a relationship in the right direction, to create more connection, to create more intimacy, to create more safety, more security, more polarity, to create more physical connection.
• 15:19
  Like when you're in this trigger escalation, rupture, or sorry, yeah, trigger escalation, rupture, withdraw and repair situation.
• 15:27
  Physical connection is going to be really difficult.
• 15:29
  And as men, that's something we literally live for.
• 15:31
  Like, I'll admit it.
• 15:32
  I love intimacy with my wife.
• 15:34
  It's one of the most important things there is to me.
• 15:36
  But if she's not feeling safe, I know it's not going to be available.
• 15:39
  So the other place where I feel like I need to lead is by repairing quickly.
• 15:44
  Healthy couples still have rupture.
• 15:46
  Even study masculine containment.
• 15:49
  And devoting my life to this work and teaching it to other men.
• 15:52
  This is a martial art.
• 15:54
  And learning how to train the trigger and slow things down and not escalate and not react with too much energy.
• 16:02
  Honestly, not react with violence for a threat that isn't present is not easy.
• 16:08
  And even though I've devoted my life to this, it still happens to me.
• 16:13
  So much less than it used to.
• 16:15
  With so much less intensity.
• 16:17
  But there are still times where there's a trigger present.
• 16:20
  And because I focus on progress over perfection, sometimes I still escalate.
• 16:26
  I might say something in a tone that I shouldn't say.
• 16:29
  I might respond in a way that really isn't the right response.
• 16:31
  I might not lead with curiosity and instead get into judgment and defensiveness.
• 16:37
  So healthy couples still rupture.
• 16:39
  We still rupture.
• 16:40
  It happens such a fraction of the time that it used to.
• 16:43
  But when it does,
• 16:45
  The difference isn't that you're going to avoid conflict all of the time.
• 16:48
  The difference is repairing quickly.
• 16:51
  And, you know, as a guy, I used to think in my relationship, we talked, I apologize.
• 16:56
  It's over.
• 16:57
  It's no big deal.
• 16:58
  What I now know intimately from having spoken with Katie and spoken with dozens, if not hundreds of women at this point, is that women are perpetually asking, after there's a rupture, they're asking, am I safe?
• 17:11
  Has anything actually changed?
• 17:13
  When is this going to happen again?
• 17:15
  Not is this going to happen again?
• 17:16
  When is this going to happen again?
• 17:18
  So repair isn't ending the conversation, which is like, I used to be a ninja at repair.
• 17:24
  I thought I was so good at it.
• 17:26
  I'd come in and I'd take responsibility and I'd talk about it.
• 17:30
  But repair is actually restoring safety.
• 17:34
  The distinction is that when you're in this place of trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw, and then repair, and then repeat,
• 17:43
  The goal becomes getting better at apologizing.
• 17:46
  It's getting better at making up.
• 17:47
  It's getting better at moving on.
• 17:49
  But then the rupture keeps happening.
• 17:51
  And so repair heals what's already happened.
• 17:55
  Repair heals yesterday.
• 17:57
  It doesn't automatically change tomorrow.
• 18:00
  So when we repair and then step into a new pattern of trigger, containment, breathing into our body, curiosity, asking questions, understanding what's happening.
• 18:11
  For us, first, first for you.
• 18:13
  You have to understand what's happening for you.
• 18:15
  Where are you feeling it in your body?
• 18:17
  What emotions are coming up?
• 18:18
  What's happening for you?
• 18:19
  Then curiosity, asking questions, and then safety.
• 18:25
  Like slowing things down and not escalating and then creating that connection, everything changes.
• 18:31
  Instead of waiting until there's a rupture, we interrupt the pattern while it hasn't gone out of control, while it hasn't gone off the rails.
• 18:39
  There's little or no rupture to repair because if you don't allow your nervous system to fully escalate, then you don't get into this place where you're constantly repairing.
• 18:49
  And so if there is an escalation as a man, I believe you should take responsibility for repair because here's what's happening on your side.
• 19:00
  You're frustrated.
• 19:00
  You're irritated.
• 19:02
  You're feeling challenged by it.
• 19:03
  You might even be judging yourself.
• 19:05
  You might be in a shame spiral.
• 19:06
  There's all kinds of stuff that can be happening on our side.
• 19:09
  But what I now know is happening on hers is so much more intense.
• 19:13
  She's scanning for safety.
• 19:15
  She's saying, am I going to be okay?
• 19:17
  She's saying, is he safe to be around?
• 19:20
  She's saying, when is this going to happen again?
• 19:22
  And is it going to keep happening?
• 19:23
  And is it going to get worse?
• 19:24
  And her nervous system, maybe not her logical mind, is saying he is a threat.
• 19:30
  Her nervous system is triggered to the point of fight or flight when we get into that escalation rupture and withdrawal.
• 19:37
  And so if there's a place where you've escalated, you have to go back and not just repair, not just go through the, hey, I'm sorry, and this is what happened, but talk to her.
• 19:46
  Ask her questions.
• 19:48
  I know this is gonna be hard to hear as a man, but ask her what it felt like when there was a rupture.
• 19:54
  Let her tell you.
• 19:55
  Let her unload on you.
• 19:56
  Let her tell you how scared she was.
• 19:58
  Let her tell you how frustrated she was.
• 20:00
  You will know you are actually repairing when it's hard to hear what she's telling you.
• 20:06
  You will know you're actually making a difference when you feel like you don't want to hear it anymore.
• 20:11
  So let her.
• 20:12
  Let her tell you what's going on during that repair.
• 20:16
  Ask her to tell you what it felt like for her.
• 20:18
  Ask her to get it off her chest.
• 20:20
  Get that out of her body.
• 20:21
  Don't let her just internalize that.
• 20:23
  Stuff it down.
• 20:24
  Live with it.
• 20:26
  help her move past it by getting it out in the open.
• 20:29
  Because two things will happen.
• 20:31
  One, you're getting it out of her body.
• 20:32
  She's not taking it on as trauma.
• 20:34
  She's not carrying it around anymore, especially if you are moving towards containment.
• 20:38
  And two, when you have to hear how it feels like for her, I know because I've done it, it makes it so much harder to do it again.
• 20:47
  It slows you down, and it really makes you realize just how hard it is for her.
• 20:53
  I told you, I spent years becoming an expert at repair.
• 20:56
  My marriage didn't really change until I became a student of interruption, of stopping that trigger, of stopping it from happening again.
• 21:04
  And so...
• 21:06
  A lot of times people say, what if she's responsible for the trigger?
• 21:09
  You know, I don't care who's responsible for the trigger anymore in my relationship.
• 21:13
  You can take this on or not.
• 21:15
  You can leave this part of this behind.
• 21:17
  You can judge me for saying it.
• 21:19
  I totally understand and I get it.
• 21:21
  Believe me.
• 21:21
  There's a time in my life where I probably would have judged myself for saying this.
• 21:25
  But for me, I'm at a point in my life, in my career, in my development as a man where I am not really interested in who's responsible.
• 21:36
  I'm actually interested in how much responsibility can I take because blame limits my power and responsibility accesses it.
• 21:44
  It allows me to change things.
• 21:46
  It allows me to move things in the right direction.
• 21:48
  It allows me to lead.
• 21:51
  And I want to lead where it's appropriate.
• 21:53
  So the goal isn't to become a man who apologizes better when it comes to repair.
• 21:58
  The goal is to become the man who creates fewer things to apologize for and in the repair creates safety.
• 22:06
  Let's her offload.
• 22:07
  Here's what's going on and changes behavior.
• 22:10
  And now the third place.
• 22:12
  where I believe as men we should lead is setting healthy boundaries.
• 22:19
  Now, this is one of those places where containment is so misunderstood because when I share the process or the theory of the definition of masculine containment of like staying present, staying in the moment, staying calm, staying in your body, a lot of times men say, oh, you're just telling men to tolerate abuse, to stay silent, to abandon themselves.
• 22:40
  It's not true.
• 22:41
  What I actually want us to do is slow things down and feel.
• 22:45
  Because if we're exploding or withdrawing, we are abandoning ourselves.
• 22:49
  If we are exploding or withdrawing, we are creating abuse.
• 22:52
  If we are exploding or withdrawing, we are either bringing way too much to the table or not enough.
• 22:59
  And so the alternative is really what people accuse me of.
• 23:02
  See, containment is staying in your body.
• 23:05
  And not collapsing, not exploding, not getting defensive.
• 23:10
  With containment, what often happens in relationships and what happened in mine was that work reveals itself.
• 23:18
  Like I revealed to myself where I had some work to do, where I was still reacting, where I was still triggered, where I was having trouble holding containment.
• 23:25
  There were times where I was in containment where I wasn't reacting and my wife was.
• 23:29
  That revealed where she had work.
• 23:31
  We both have work oftentimes when you start doing this work.
• 23:34
  But until I stopped reacting, I couldn't see clearly.
• 23:38
  See, containment creates clarity.
• 23:40
  And clarity makes healthy boundaries possible.
• 23:44
  And that's the third places.
• 23:45
  I believe as men, we need to set healthy boundaries in our relationship.
• 23:51
  I'll share what often comes up in the brotherhood and what I've seen over and over again is that oftentimes, especially in early containment, if that pattern's been present in a relationship for a long time, when a man stops getting triggered,
• 24:07
  A woman's nervous system panics and overreacts and acts in ways that maybe she wouldn't act at any other time in any other way.
• 24:17
  But there's a trigger present and the man regulates.
• 24:20
  She escalates because that's what they've always done.
• 24:23
  She's not getting the same energy she always got.
• 24:25
  Her nervous system gets uncomfortable.
• 24:29
  And contempt may become present.
• 24:32
  Name-calling, insulting, speaking to, she may speak to the guy in a way that's just really not acceptable, you know?
• 24:41
  Expressing your emotions is not contempt.
• 24:42
  Volume is not contempt.
• 24:44
  But calling names or, you know, telling someone they're not man enough or so many things that I've heard often becomes present.
• 24:53
  Thank God it didn't become present in mine.
• 24:56
  But there were other places where I had to set a healthy boundary.
• 24:59
  And here's what I use.
• 25:00
  There's a six-part framework we train in the brotherhood.
• 25:02
  You know, masculine containment is trained.
• 25:05
  It is a martial art.
• 25:06
  It is something you focus on.
• 25:07
  It's something you work on.
• 25:08
  It's not something that just happens one day.
• 25:10
  So the six-step framework is, number one, build capacity and get into your body.
• 25:13
  If you're going to set a boundary, breathe, slow down, spend some time in neutral, go for a walk, make sure you're fully hydrated.
• 25:21
  I looked at my water.
• 25:21
  I want to take a drink right now.
• 25:22
  I'm not feeling super hydrated just because I've been talking for so long.
• 25:26
  The state you deliver the boundary from is just as important as a word you use because so often what you are communicating is just part of the communication.
• 25:35
  Not so often.
• 25:35
  All the time.
• 25:35
  What you're communicating is part of the communication.
• 25:37
  Your energy is everything.
• 25:39
  Then name the boundary violation.
• 25:41
  So what often happens with men in the brotherhood is they have to first regulate, then they name the boundary violation.
• 25:47
  They say, hey, look, I want to talk to you.
• 25:48
  I want to hear what's going on for you.
• 25:49
  And I want you to express yourself fully.
• 25:52
  But when you start using contempt and calling names and judgment, it makes it really hard for me to stay in the moment.
• 25:58
  You don't say, hey, you're always doing this.
• 26:00
  You say, no, look, this is what's been happening.
• 26:02
  And this is where I feel like I need a boundary.
• 26:05
  And then you say how it made you feel.
• 26:07
  So you don't say you made me feel this way.
• 26:09
  You say when you spoke this way, it made it really hard for me to stay in the moment.
• 26:14
  And it made me start judging myself.
• 26:15
  And it made me kind of feel shame.
• 26:17
  And that's really hard to communicate from a place of shame.
• 26:20
  And so the fourth thing you do is you explain what would work better instead.
• 26:25
  Say, hey, you know, I totally understand there's a lot of emotions here present for you.
• 26:30
  But if you could explain how you're feeling without judgment or contempt, without name calling, it'll be a lot easier for us to have these conversations and then ask for the new behavior.
• 26:40
  So the next time this happens, what I'd really like you to do is just share with whatever emotions are necessary.
• 26:46
  Yeah.
• 26:47
  Without name calling, without judgment.
• 26:49
  And then you name what's going to happen if the boundary is violated.
• 26:53
  So you say, hey, you know, if we get into this situation again, and there is name calling, and there is contempt present, and I'm feeling that, I just want you to know, I love you.
• 27:04
  I'm not abandoning you.
• 27:05
  But I'm going to end the conversation so we can both take time until we come back and not speak to each other that way.
• 27:12
  See, this six step process changes things in a relationship.
• 27:16
  I think for us, understanding boundaries and understanding how to set boundaries is so crucially important.
• 27:22
  So remember, it's build capacity and get in the body.
• 27:24
  Name the violation.
• 27:26
  Share how it made you feel.
• 27:27
  Explain what would work better instead.
• 27:29
  Ask for the new behavior and then say, hey, if this outcome is violated or boundary is violated, then here's what's going to happen.
• 27:37
  Here's what I'm going to do.
• 27:39
  This way you're saying it ahead of time and you're saying it in a calm place because boundaries that are made or attempted to be made in a state of escalation, they look like control.
• 27:50
  They look like punishment.
• 27:51
  They look like you getting back at somebody or a backlash and we don't want that.
• 27:56
  A boundary isn't something you control someone else with.
• 28:00
  A boundary is something you become consistent with.
• 28:02
  And the power of a boundary isn't saying it.
• 28:05
  It's calmly following through on the boundary.
• 28:07
  Because here's the key and why I think this is the third place men need to lead is that boundaries are there to protect the relationship.
• 28:18
  Let me say that again.
• 28:19
  Boundaries are there to protect the relationship.
• 28:21
  And here's what's interesting about boundary conversations.
• 28:23
  This has happened in my relationship.
• 28:26
  You know, there's this energy called polarity.
• 28:28
  It's like magnetic attraction.
• 28:30
  When a man is in his masculine and a woman is in her feminine, they are magnetically attracted to each other.
• 28:36
  And as a man, when you are regulated and calm and you sit down and you go through the boundary setting process that I just went through, you are creating dominance over yourself because you're doing this from a calm place.
• 28:48
  And if a woman is there with you, when my wife, and I'll personalize this, when
• 28:52
  When I've done this with Katie and I'm calm and I'm regulated and I'm explaining what's going on, she can feel I'm protecting the relationship.
• 28:59
  She can feel that I'm doing this from a place of containment and regulation.
• 29:03
  She can feel that this is important to me and that she's important to me.
• 29:06
  What's happened more often than not when we have a boundary conversation is that polarity is created and it creates sexual attraction for her.
• 29:15
  The first time it happened, it really surprised me.
• 29:18
  But this is something that is actually like a side benefit of setting boundaries is that it creates polarity, especially if you're in a place of dominion or dominance over yourself, not her.
• 29:29
  We don't want that on our nervous system.
• 29:32
  Now, leadership is situational.
• 29:35
  And I wanna make sure that it's understood is I believe relationships should be absolutely equal, equal dignity, equal value, equal worth.
• 29:43
  And leadership is not a permanent role.
• 29:45
  Leadership can actually be exchanged back and forth.
• 29:48
  You know, my wife, Katie, leads in countless ways and I'm not afraid to say that and it doesn't make me less of a man.
• 29:53
  She actually leads emotionally.
• 29:54
  She leads sometimes socially.
• 29:56
  She leads in areas where she's stronger than I am, where she's better at something than I am.
• 30:01
  But during conflict, the conditions change.
• 30:04
  See, conflict is the heart of this entire conversation.
• 30:10
  Conflict creates this power imbalance, not because women are weak, not because we as men are bad or we have bad intentions, but because nervous systems respond differently under stress.
• 30:20
  As men, we are bigger, we have a higher threat potential, we can be way more intense, and there's social conditioning that makes it so that we represent an actual threat to her nervous system, maybe not her logical mind, but to her nervous system.
• 30:34
  And one of the biggest observations I've made is that men are often wired to detect problems and neutralize them, but men are wired to continually evaluate for safety.
• 30:44
  Sorry, women are wired to continually evaluate for safety and security.
• 30:49
  So when conflict is present, she's often asking, am I safe?
• 30:54
  What's happening here?
• 30:55
  Is this going to get worse?
• 30:56
  And he's asking, how do I fix this?
• 30:58
  How do I stop this?
• 30:58
  How do we solve this and move on?
• 31:00
  Those are different nervous system priorities, different conditioning, different ways we show up.
• 31:04
  This is the reason she cannot create safety for me while trying to determine whether she's safe herself.
• 31:11
  And when I realized this with Katie, it changed everything in our relationship.
• 31:14
  It made things so much easier for both of us.
• 31:17
  Leadership is not about having more value.
• 31:20
  It's about taking responsibility where your influence as a man is greatest.
• 31:25
  Now, before I wrap up, I just want to make it clear.
• 31:29
  I understand why men resist this.
• 31:32
  Oftentimes when I talk about this, men say things like, I have to carry everything.
• 31:36
  I can never have my own needs.
• 31:38
  When is it my turn?
• 31:39
  Everything's my fault.
• 31:40
  I have to be perfect.
• 31:41
  That's not leadership.
• 31:43
  That's actually a young part of you saying, I'm not a man.
• 31:46
  I don't feel significant.
• 31:47
  I don't feel seen.
• 31:47
  I don't feel heard.
• 31:48
  And I get that.
• 31:51
  But instead of asking those questions, why not elevate to the question, the more mature question, the more powerful question, the more contained question, what can I influence right now?
• 32:02
  And then start by taking responsibility there.
• 32:05
  And I also want to point out that women are going to resist this.
• 32:07
  In fact, I'm going to name this title, Why Men Need to Lead in Relationships.
• 32:12
  And I know I'm going to get some heat for it.
• 32:15
  And I completely understand why women would resist hearing that men should lead, especially women who've had experience of dominance or control or entitlement or anger or emotional volatility or even abuse.
• 32:26
  And I think most women have experienced that in some way from the masculine in their life.
• 32:31
  you'd reject it too.
• 32:32
  I know I would.
• 32:34
  So many women have never experienced men who wanted, many women have experienced men who wanted authority without responsibility.
• 32:41
  They wanted respect, submission, the final say.
• 32:44
  They wanted to be in charge, but they weren't regulated.
• 32:48
  They weren't willing to apologize or repair.
• 32:49
  They weren't willing to create safety.
• 32:51
  They didn't say what they were, they didn't do what they said they were going to do.
• 32:55
  And if this is a woman's experience, I totally understand why you'd be resistant to leadership.
• 33:01
  And here's the distinction.
• 33:04
  I don't believe women resist leadership in the three ways that I've described in this episode.
• 33:11
  I actually believe they resist the version of leadership they've experienced in their lives.
• 33:17
  And honestly, when it comes to what I've described, where they should resist, so do I.
• 33:22
  If somebody tries to lead me without being respectful, if somebody brings too much energy to me and yells at me and tells me what to do, if somebody says they're gonna do something and they don't do it, if somebody treats me with like,
• 33:32
  You know, like I'm in charge of you energy.
• 33:35
  We're going to have a really hard time.
• 33:37
  And man to man, let's be real.
• 33:38
  So would you have a really hard time.
• 33:41
  So I'm not saying men should be in charge of women.
• 33:47
  When I say men should lead, I'm not saying women should follow.
• 33:50
  I'm saying someone has to be the first nervous system to slow the moment down.
• 33:56
  get into their bodies and create a different outcome because conflict affects men and women differently.
• 34:04
  And the faster we recognize this and take responsibility for it as men, the faster we are actually taking responsibility in a place where we can access our capacity and our ability to change things.
• 34:17
  So...
• 34:18
  I absolutely and fully believe men need to lead in relationships in the three places that I've discussed today.
• 34:23
  Not because we're better, not because women are weaker.
• 34:26
  Not because relationships need a hierarchy, because I know I'm going to hear all of that.
• 34:29
  But because during conflict...
• 34:33
  our nervous systems don't enter the room equally.
• 34:36
  And once I understood that, I stopped asking, who's right, who's wrong, whose fault is this, who needs to take responsibility?
• 34:43
  Instead, my question became, what can I do right now that creates safety?
• 34:49
  How can I get curious?
• 34:50
  And how can I lead this in a way that creates connection?
• 34:54
  Changed everything in my relationship.
• 34:55
  It's in the best place it's ever been.
• 34:57
  Intimacy is in a place I never thought it would be.
• 35:01
  My connection with my wife is extraordinary.
• 35:03
  My relationship with my daughters has improved.
• 35:05
  My relationship with the people around me, the people on my team has improved.
• 35:09
  Really, honestly, everything in my life is better.
• 35:11
  And I'm not wasting anywhere near as much time as,
• 35:16
  in that place of withdrawal, and then trying to go back and repair with people all around me.
• 35:22
  By creating more safety, I've stepped into real leadership because leadership is responsibility for your impact.
• 35:29
  Containment doesn't replace it.
• 35:31
  It just makes leadership possible.
• 35:33
  When you are contained, you can step into a place of leadership and live there.
• 35:37
  So my question for you is, where in your relationship have you been waiting to lead until after the damage was already done?
• 35:45
  Because if you think about that question and look at it as an opportunity and answer it honestly like I did, it could change everything in your relationship.
• 35:54
  But just as importantly, I think it'll change everything in your life.
• 35:59
  Thank you so much for being here with me today.
• 36:00
  I appreciate it.
• 36:01
  If you're a man who is interested in the path of masculine containment, of learning this martial art-like discipline that will make everything in your life easier, give you more capacity, give you more energy, move you in the direction you've always known you should go.
• 36:14
  more importantly, if you're one of those men who's always known you were meant for more and to do more and to be more and to make a bigger impact and to change the world around you, I'd be honored to walk this path with you because I feel the same way and so do the men of the brotherhood.
• 36:27
  Go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com, fill in your information, get on our mailing list so you can join the next container and understand how to change your relationship with yourself.
• 36:38
  how to lead in your relationship with your partner, and how to increase your capacity for everything in your life.
• 36:45
  Thebrotherhoodsociety.com.
• 36:46
  I look forward to seeing you soon.