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Something Old, Something New, Something He Brew?: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast the First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share our sermons, but
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  to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're learning and
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  what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  The conversation you're about to join was inspired by our Spring
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  Mixtape 2025 non series sermon series.
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  Rather than a series, this will be a collection of sermons based
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  on what God is leading us to preach on this spring.
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  You can find out more information about our church at
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  fumccollingswood.org. Thanks for joining us for this
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  conversation. So Jeremy, in your message
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  yesterday, in the second service anyway, you went the route of
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  looking at different mediums that have been used to store
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  music over the years and the decades.
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  You know, going back to, you know, all the way to the iPod
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  and CDs and then even further back, you know, through all the
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  things back to photographs and stuff.
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  But in the first service, you, you showed them a clip of a
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  video that you created with AI. And it got me thinking, what's
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  the wildest thing you've seen AI create?
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  I mean, some of the videos because you can ask it multiple
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  times with a similar prompt until you get one that has
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  minimal to no giveaways that it's AI and then stitch that
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  together with other videos. And so I think that's more
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  terrifying because nerds will be nerds.
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  And the right now there are certain barriers and
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  restrictions on what it can be used for.
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  Like you can't put in like a proper noun and say a specific
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  person and have them do whatever you want in the video.
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  But people have ways. Just a yeah, it's a matter of
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  time before people work their way around that's.
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  Just a restriction on Google's and from the user interface.
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  It's not. Yeah, it's not.
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  Technology, it's not limited. Yeah, yeah, AI could could do
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  it. They're just telling it not to
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  do that. So yeah, I think it's getting to
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  a place. I mean, you can find like many
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  movies of like aliens taking over the world and all this kind
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  of stuff and interviews of people and fake influencers and
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  like, you can recreate a whole YouTube channel with AI and
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  people would think that it's real people doing real stuff.
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  Yeah. So it's, it's, I think every
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  within the next few years, everything you see digitally
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  should be more questionable than ever.
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  Like like not being able to trust anything you see video
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  wise, Yeah. Yeah, which is crazy because up
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  to this point that's kind of been like, oh, if you've got it
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  on video, it's indisputable fact.
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  Yeah, yeah. And I mean, there was, there was
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  even within 3-4 years ago when AI tried to make videos, it was
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  all very like it almost looked like abstract are being used as
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  stop motion. It wasn't.
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  And now we're getting AK made-up people from Mexico like I showed
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  yesterday with great hair fades, like the hair stylist online,
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  like you. Yeah, to have AK resolution of a
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  person that doesn't exist within two minutes.
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  Like I literally typed it out and within two minutes I had it
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  and I'm not. And it was free.
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  It's not like the most premium available thing in the world.
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  It's not restricted to whatever people like a random person
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  just. But it's funny how they're like,
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  at this point anyway, there are still kind of like, tells, Yeah,
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  Because like, as soon as I looked, I was like, this isn't
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  real like. Yeah, so, so in the video, well,
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  it was too high quality for anyone I know in Mexico to take
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  a video of the first one. But he in the video, basically
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  the guy greets the church. Like there's a guy standing
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  outside of a church in Mexico and he says, hello, First
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  Methodist Church, Collingswood and my brother Jeremy, blessings
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  to all, or something like that. And he at first is holding his
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  cell phone because in the prompt I told it to have him record it
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  with a phone. And I don't know if it took that
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  as recording with the phone or recording while holding a Yeah,
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  yeah, yeah. So like at first he's holding
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  like a selfie the the fake camera, the imaginary camera
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  while holding a cell phone. And then both hands go down.
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  So he's no longer holding the camera that's recording.
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  He lifts up both hands to say hi to me with no phone in his hand.
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  And then when he goes to walk away, he has the phone again in
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  his hand. So they're those are the the few
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  towels. But if I just kept doing the
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  prompt and and I got rid of cell phone and it like sure, it's
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  yeah, baffling. You you said how your
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  grandfather would see stuff like that and always respond with all
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  what will they think of next? Oh yeah.
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  Where do you think technology's going?
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  You don't want to know that answer, Scott.
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  You don't honestly want to know that answer.
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  If anyone's interested where AI is proposed to be going in the
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  next 10 to 25 years, talk to me outside of the podcast, all
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  right? But too big for the podcast.
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  It's it's essentially like world domination that's like taking
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  out to the point where we just similar to like the new the past
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  2 Mission Impossible movies where like if it is not properly
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  restrained, we won't be able to be connected through the
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  Internet because otherwise it will like.
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  Manipulate everything. Everything, yeah.
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  There you go. Come here for the Optimist
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  project. And for, like, for a lot of
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  people, the more they like, study and especially people in
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  technology that should get it, they're getting more and more
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  scared and want governments to put more and more restrictions
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  on it. I have Jesus, and I know that
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  the end is a good thing overall. Do we need to get the people
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  living here now to know him before that time comes?
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  Yeah. So there's more of an urgency,
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  but it's like, I don't care how God ends the world.
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  Like I know what happens after, right?
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  Fair. Enough, Fair enough.
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  Well, all that was like the lead into your sermon, which had to
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  do a lot about faith and all that kind of stuff.
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  Where where did your sermon? Like we know that we read in the
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  service. We read Hebrews Chapter 9 verses
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  1 to 10. But you you mentioned at some
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  point like maybe it was in the first or I was.
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  In the first. That you saw some people kind of
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  like the light bulb coming on of like what you were doing.
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  So tell me, what were you doing with your sermon this week?
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  You're very experimental. Not as a linear sermon this
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  week. That's a great question, this
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  guy. You can just AI me asking that
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  one. Yeah, I would say it was Larry
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  Gibbons and Carrie. And I think there's one more in
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  the first service and then Dick Escher in the second service
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  like. No, he was in the first service.
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  Too. Yeah.
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  So those three, I can see where they were sitting.
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  Those are the ones that like within probably like 5 minutes
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  of my sermon after I got past talking about my grandfather,
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  we're very aware of what I was doing so long time ago.
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  I desired to after rereading Hebrews and especially the end
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  of Hebrews, I was like this preaches.
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  Like there's the what what do you do?
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  Like, in addition to this, because 9 through 13 just
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  preaches on its own merit, and especially when you read it more
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  in like a new Living translation where it's a little more modern
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  language, it feels more like just a sermon.
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  And so I was like, I would love one day to just memorize 9
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  through 13 and be able to like, do that in a way that is like
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  engaging in fluid. That is not what you witnessed
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  yesterday, obviously, but that that was just like in my head
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  for the past few years. And I never thought that there
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  was an appropriate time to do that.
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  And as I was preparing for these past three sermons, I felt like
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  God was nudging me into that direction, or at least into
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  those chapters. I didn't know what it would
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  exactly look like, especially after all The Dirty looks I got
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  from people for saying my original idea.
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  And so as I was going through the text, I was trying to add
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  stuff to connect it more to nowadays, but also adjust the
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  flow and direction of things. So it's a little bit more, has a
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  little bit more of a flow of thought and then kind of re
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  including things for my example to try and help it progress and
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  then utilizing towards the end scriptures as like prayer and as
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  the benediction. But that's kind of where because
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  I know nobody read Romans 6 through 8.
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  And so I was like, instead of assigning homework, I will just
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  provide you the gist of nine through 13.
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  So not homework, but here's your challenge then right to to
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  listen to Jeremy's sermon as you're reading in those chapters
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  of Hebrews and, and see how it all flows together and.
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  And it wasn't as reading through, it wasn't as like
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  modern ceremony as I. Thought yeah.
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  Because there are. I mean, there's so much in
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  there. There's so much in there.
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  Well, and I think that's the biggest thing, right is like, we
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  would never put that much content with that many rabbit
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  trails and so into one. That's where I I ended up
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  cutting out even just like second halves of verses that
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  would lead people very far off of the main, yeah, direction
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  that the text is going. And so that's where I tried to
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  it wasn't to avoid certain phrasings or parts of Scripture,
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  but it was to help try and keep the flow of thought as best as
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  possible. Before people were like, wait,
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  did he just say this and then I need to go back and yeah.
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  No, and and and in it you you talked a lot about faith because
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  Hebrews talks about. Faith out of that chapter, I
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  gave a top three when they're so I had the one idea and I was
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  like, people hate participating from the pews.
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  So I'm I'm not going to try and get like a lot of participation
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  because I had this idea was like, what if every time I
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  pointed at them, they said faith and then we just go through all
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  the examples. I think that's Chapter 11 by 12,
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  faith by faith. And then and then I was going to
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  be like, look, normally people taper off and it gets quieter
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  and quieter. Instead we're going to start at
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  a whisper and then we get louder outer.
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  But I'm like, they're never going to do that.
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  So. Maybe at a youth camp?
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  Yeah, maybe youth camp. Yeah, after we give them
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  monsters. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  But he talked about how our faith is integrally connected to
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  the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross, right?
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  And how we are called to live out of that victory that that
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  Jesus won. But the question that came up
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  for me was where does that faith come from?
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  Is that can we build faith in ourselves?
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  How does that good layout energism?
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  So I think like there's a degree in which you can gain knowledge
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  of God, but having more knowledge of him that may like
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  confirm certain things like historically doesn't necessarily
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  build faith. It can, but it's not the the
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  same as building faith. And so I think in scripture,
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  like Paul prays for more faith from God.
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  And so it's something that like and I think how enough is in
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  Hebrews or something else I was reading recently where it talks
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  about Jesus giving us faith like the oh, Hebrews, right, the
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  initiator and perfector of our faith.
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  But that's not or. Author and Perfector is 1.
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  Translation Yeah, the Pioneer is 1 the.
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  Pioneer And so it's like it's not just us trying to squeeze
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  out tensing up and squeezing out a mustard seed of faith, right,
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  But like going to God. And that's, that's where I think
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  there's like a, a hurdle for some people where it's like, I
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  don't know how to believe more, but you're also not going to
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  God, asking him for stronger faith.
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  And so it, it becomes like this hurdle, this roadblock.
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  And if you sincerely desire. And that's why like I tried to
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  emphasize like those that sincerely seek him because a lot
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  of people seek him. But then they're really going
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  like, I want you to confirm what I already believe, or I want you
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  to give me this, this, this, and this, and then I'll follow your
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  line of rules. But like sincerely seeking Him
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  for who He is instead of who we want Him to be or whatever.
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  I think that's key to also growing our faith because then
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  we would desire more faith. We would desire to know His
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  will. We would desire to do His will
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  right. Yeah, yeah, because I think we
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  often hear that verse about Jesus being the author and
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  perfector of our faith. And think of it in terms of
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  like, he's the author and perfector of our Christian
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  faith, right? Like he's the one who built the
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  system, but that's not really what it's saying, right?
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  It's he's the one who actually generates faith, bestows faith,
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  gifts faith, however you want to think about that transferral.
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  He's the one who gives the faith.
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  It's it's even a gift from God and his pervenient grace that we
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  can even respond in faith to his offer of.
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  Grace and that's that's the thing, right?
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  Sincerely seeking desert, like all of this stuff, because when
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  people, if you just take the one or two verses and it's like
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  Jesus, all that kind of stuff, people are like, oh, so see, you
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  can't believe on your own. You can't have faith on your
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  own. God chooses who has faith and
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  who believes. So like, because God's giving it
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  and so God's giving it to those that he wants to be saved.
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  And that just doesn't work within full context of
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  Scripture. But we can't just sit back
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  passively and. That's what that's what people.
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  Say, I know, I know. Absolutely, absolutely.
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  The other thing that kind of stood out to me the second time
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  hearing it through. Second time was way better.
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  That's true and. Not, but not because of the not
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  totally because of the example at the beginning.
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  I was so discontent with the first serves, not with how with
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  how the sermon went in first service.
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  And I was like, God, just like, have your spirit speak or do or
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  whatever. Let my iPad die and just take
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  over. Like, I, yeah.
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  And so there were like paragraphs that like, as I got
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  to them, I just felt like, I was like, just skip that.
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  Here you go. And then I just said stuff.
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  I did not prepare whatsoever. And then I was like, OK, where
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  do I pick back up? And then finding that.
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  And so there was like, I was like.
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  That one buffering moment, yeah. There was like, yeah, at the
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  end, they're completely different ending, not completely
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  different, but way more succinct and like connected.
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  And so there was three parts within the second service where
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  I just didn't have it prepared. And God, just provide.
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  It's not that I didn't have something prepared, I just
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  didn't have that specific phrasing or paragraph or
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  whatever. And so I know that he used those
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  because they weren't me. But yes, sorry, second service.
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  Yeah, yeah. But at the end there of that
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  second service sermon, you brought it back to your
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  grandfather saying of what will they think of next?
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  And kind of like how your point was like Jesus was kind of gods,
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  what will he think of next or like.
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  Oh, I messed that up then, if that's what you thought.
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  It kind of came across like Jesus was Plan B, like the
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  evolution of the plan, and I don't think that's what you were
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  intending to communicate. I say, yeah, I was thinking more
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  of like, yeah, now there's got to be a better way.
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  And then that's Jesus. That's what it was.
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  Yeah, there's got to be a better way that Jesus.
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  And the world's always trying to find a better way for
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  everything, and it never satisfies better way Jesus.
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  And then what will they think of next is how God makes us holy
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  through Jesus Christ. And so it wasn't a like
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  afterthought. It was always part of the plan,
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  but like we couldn't be made or made.
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  I forget the exact phrasing. Perfect or I know it's like made
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  holy and then something else made perfected in Christ without
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  Jesus Christ. So like it was that's what was
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  next. It was just thought of prior.
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  Yeah. Or always.
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  Always, which would. Be prior, but like, yeah, so it
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  wasn't like, oh, what now? OK, Jesus died and resurrected
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  and God's like, huh, what should we do next?
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  Yeah, or. But you're right, the the
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  phrasing can get you to a different conclusion.
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  Yeah, yeah. So I just wanted to give you a
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  chance to clarify that because we see all through Hebrews,
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  right? Like if we were to go back and
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  read the whole book, you know, he's laying the case that or the
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  author is laying the case that all those steps before the law
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  and the sacrifices and all of that wasn't like a a first
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  attempt that failed, but that it was preparing the way like that.
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  There was a reason that Jesus didn't just show up 5 minutes
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  after the fall, right? Like we had to get to a point
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  where people saw their sin and and they saw their need for a
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  savior and they saw that all the things that we can do in and of
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  ourselves will never accomplish what we need to.
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  So then Christ comes right and and as God and human, he bridges
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  the gap. He makes the once and for all
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  sacrifice that not only fulfilled all the previous
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  sacrifices but paved a way for a new kind of humanity.
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  Anything else in reflection that that you kind of wish you had
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  another chance to say differently or?
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  I wish I was better at memorizing scripture because
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  yeah, that would have helped. Like if I because that was
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  always a goal of like, to know, just know that script and still
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  a goal to know that section of Scripture so intimately and so
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  well. Because then I feel like I would
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  have been less beholden to looking down essentially.
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  And I could have been more focused on like intonation and
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  how to express, yeah, those parts of Scripture, which, I
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  mean, I've been listening to all those chapters like every day
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  for the past three or four weeks.
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  And still even that is. That the primary way you learn
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  scripture. How I learn I don't like I I I
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  don't know of what method of learning I am.
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  I just know when I'm interested and passionate about something
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  it usually sticks better. But even then, I'm good with
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  Nuggets. Not like chapters and chapters
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  of we're like, I can tell you the general flow of what happens
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  in all those chapters and themes and all that kind of stuff.
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  But to like word for word, yeah. When we were working with as
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  missionaries and we were working with pastors in biblical
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  reality. So, you know, we're talking
• 21:27
  primarily working with pastors who have limited literacy, their
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  people even more limited. And so one of the tools we were
• 21:37
  using was this oral method of, of studying Scripture, which
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  means an oral method of learning Scripture.
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  We found through the training we participated in, it wasn't
• 21:47
  something we came up with, but they taught us that the most
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  effective way to learn a passage is to read it aloud, close the
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  book and say back as much as you can remember, and then go back
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  and read it aloud again. Because there's something in
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  reading it with your eyes, saying it with your mouth,
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  hearing it with your ears that uses like so many different
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  parts of your brain rather. Because like for me, the way I
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  would normally try to learn a passage of scripture is I would
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  read it silently and then try to say it.
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  You know, that's kind of seems to be like the basic.
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  But even if you're trying to listen to it and then say it
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  like you're still only using one sense at a time.
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  So that might be something for you as you.
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  And for the listeners continue because it's so important to
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  write what talks about from that section of as a Jeremiah 31 of
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  they will have my laws on their hearts and minds.
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  And I think it's one of those things.
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  And last week we talked about meditating on it because the
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  because the person in Romans 7 loved the law of God so much.
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  And it's one of those things where when you're in times of
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  need for yourself or when you're with someone else and you want
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  to provide scripture to provide truth into the situation and
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  then comfort that instead of Googling, oh, nice verse that
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  makes you feel better, Bible on Google.
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  And then seeing whatever comes up, you'd actually be able to
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  like provide that. So by going through some of the
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  verses that have given you so much comfort or direction or
• 23:37
  truth that you needed and trying to use this method so that at a
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  moment's notice, you can share the gist of it at least as
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  you're continuing to memorize it is extremely beneficial for you
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  and those around you. And in that process, you
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  yourself are formed then by those passages and by that
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  Scripture, as it's not just something we can reference on a
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  printed page in a Bible somewhere, it actually becomes a
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  part of us. It becomes part of how we think
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  it's. I think it's a resource and the
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  Holy Spirit can point to and bring up within us in those
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  trying moments in those conversations because we've
• 24:22
  internalized and it's become part of us and God has then
• 24:26
  shaped and formed us through it. Well, that's our conversation
• 24:30
  for today, but that doesn't mean the conversation is over.
• 24:34
  We'd love to hear your thoughts on these topics as well.
• 24:36
  To ask a question about anything we've discussed in this episode
• 24:39
  or to join the conversation, you can head over to
• 24:42
  fumccollingswood.org/podcast. Thanks for being part of this
• 24:48
  conversation.