Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Are nearly 10 missing teen girls buried on remote Michigan woodlands?

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Are nearly 10 missing teen girls buried on remote Michigan woodlands? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
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Speaker 1: on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Imagine your
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Speaker 1: little girl goes missing, and you search, and you search,
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Speaker 1: and you cry, and you pray, and you search and
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Speaker 1: you cry and you pray, and the years pass and
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Speaker 1: you know nothing, and every day you wake up and
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Speaker 1: and wonder will this be the day? And maybe a
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Speaker 1: day passes that you don't think about it, and beat
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Speaker 1: yourself up because you didn't think about it the day before.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. That's the living
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Speaker 1: hell that multiple families are going through right now, and
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Speaker 1: they are waking up to the awful discovery that up
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Speaker 1: to seven little girls appear to be buried in a
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Speaker 1: serial killer's burial grounds on a farm where police have
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Speaker 1: now started digging for the remains of a twelve year
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Speaker 1: old girl missing since nine seventy nine. How did it
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Speaker 1: go undiscovered? How did this guy go undetected for so long?
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Speaker 1: As you hear my words, digging is taking place on
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Speaker 1: a Michigan farm. We do have, as you know, probably
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Speaker 1: cause to believe that this is a grave site, no
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Speaker 1: question about it, that Kimberly King and other young female
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Speaker 1: victims who were murdered are buried here. And we believe
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Speaker 1: we have a suspect. And you know who that suspect is.
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Speaker 1: He's already been convicted, he's in prison. We were hoping
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Speaker 1: that would get a little more cooperation from him. But
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Speaker 1: we're going to do our jobs as far as law enforcement. Uh.
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Speaker 1: This search could last up to two or three, four
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Speaker 1: or five days, whatever it takes, we're gonna do it.
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Speaker 1: We're very cautiously optimistic that we're going to unfortunately fine remains.
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Speaker 1: But the key issue here, as part of what we're
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Speaker 1: trying to do because we're trying to bring closure, trying
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Speaker 1: to bring closure to the families, the families of the victims.
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Speaker 1: That's the key here. Straight out to John Limley, Crime
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Speaker 1: Online investigative reporter joining me along with Chicago psychologist Dr
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Speaker 1: Tiffany Sanders and forensics expert Karen Smith and of course
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Speaker 1: Allen the Duke Duke joining me out of l A.
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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard here in the studio, John Limley, I'm overwhelmed
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Speaker 1: that authorities believe that there are at least seven little
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Speaker 1: girls buried on this Michigan farm and now vacant farm.
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Speaker 1: What do we know? Actually, hold on, John Limley, I
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Speaker 1: want you to listen to to what we have got
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Speaker 1: in our mits on. This is one of the little
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Speaker 1: girl's father talking about the day his little girls, Cindy
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Speaker 1: Sarziki goes missing proby about five six o'clock. It was
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Speaker 1: nearing time and for dinner and she wasn't round, And
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Speaker 1: what you do. I went to the police station and
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Speaker 1: they told me that, um, I had to wait twenty
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Speaker 1: four hours. It's a file report. She should have been
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Speaker 1: a home. She's not home. Now we're calling friends, trying
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Speaker 1: to find out where she's at. We went to like
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Speaker 1: the different parks and there was a chirable and not
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Speaker 1: far away, and so we went to different places looking
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Speaker 1: for what are you thinking she maybe got hurt. She's
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Speaker 1: in hospital, so I didn't know. I had no idea.
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Speaker 1: I mean, anything bad wasn't even in the picture. So
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Speaker 1: we're still boys. She gonna get it talking to when
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Speaker 1: she comes home, and and and my figure should be home.
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Speaker 1: That is a father. That is Cindy's father when Cindy
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Speaker 1: first goes missing from our friends at NBC Dateline. But
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Speaker 1: now take a listen to Cindy's mother as well. At
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Speaker 1: that point, we were still hoping that she had just
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Speaker 1: spent the night at somebody's house. And I remember my
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Speaker 1: mom coming into the room and saying, you know where Cindy?
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Speaker 1: She said, if you know anything, you better spill it.
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Speaker 1: Now you're thirteen year old self, are you wondering where
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Speaker 1: she is? I was concerned right right away. You didn't
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Speaker 1: hear about that East chart. You heard about it, and
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Speaker 1: you know other states, and so when you're thirteen, you
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Speaker 1: think you're untouchable. It was Panny. You knew that there's
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Speaker 1: something something wrong. I mean, it's not like Jaws where
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Speaker 1: you got the little music going, and you know there's something.
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Speaker 1: It's we're just making the amount of a mole hill.
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Speaker 1: It'll be over, We'll find her, everything will be all right.
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Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany Sanders, Chicago's psychologist. That's what people tell themselves
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Speaker 1: when they want to believe everything will be all right.
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Speaker 1: But Cindy had never gone missing before. She was a
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Speaker 1: great student, very well behaved. They knew something was wrong,
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Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany, And it breaks my heart. Police told him
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Speaker 1: they had to wait twenty four hours before they could
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Speaker 1: report her missing, because that's the critical time where you
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Speaker 1: can save someone a final's life. Wow, Nancy, my heart
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Speaker 1: breaks listening to those recordings. And and they of course
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Speaker 1: they knew. But you know, when you think about the
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Speaker 1: five stages of grief, the very first stages denial. So
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Speaker 1: they're denying what likely is the truth that something unfortunate
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Speaker 1: happened to their daughter and their sister. And when you
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Speaker 1: think about this man who uh sind be trusted, She
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Speaker 1: probably didn't even think anything was gonna be happening to her.
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Speaker 1: She just thought, probably thought it was an innocuous interaction,
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Speaker 1: and he took advantage of her, so her family likely
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Speaker 1: has gone through all those stages of Greece, from from
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Speaker 1: denial to depression, to anger to bargaining with God like
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Speaker 1: please let our child be okay, let our sister be okay,
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Speaker 1: and to that final stage of acceptance. And it's very unfortunate,
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Speaker 1: and I'm so happy that they're likely getting the court
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Speaker 1: closure they need. It's so hard for them to get
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Speaker 1: to that point because for so long she's missing, years
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Speaker 1: past and they don't know what happened to her. Back
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Speaker 1: to you, John, Lily, Let's take it from the beginning.
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Speaker 1: What focused police on this vacant Michigan farm tell me
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Speaker 1: about the disappearance of the girls. There's so many and
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Speaker 1: I predate they're going to be more. Well, we could
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Speaker 1: begin with the specifics of Cindy's case and then we'll
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Speaker 1: go back in time. Uh, Cindy of Sunday morning, not
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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night sometime, tells her father
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Speaker 1: that she's going to Dairy Queen where she's going to
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Speaker 1: meet some friends and then they're going to walk to church.
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Speaker 1: Now this was a lie. She was actually intending to
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Speaker 1: meet her boyfriend, Scott Reem, at least that's what she thinks.
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Speaker 1: She's doing. When Cindy arrives at the dairy, Queen Scott's
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Speaker 1: not there, but his dad, Arthur is. He tells her
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Speaker 1: that he's met her there so that they can plan
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Speaker 1: a surprise birthday party for Scott. After that, no, Cindy,
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Speaker 1: She's not seen anywhere. It's not law though, before police
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Speaker 1: do hone in on Arthur h Shortly after Cindy's appearance,
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Speaker 1: Arthur has thrown in prison for sexually assaulting a fourteen
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Speaker 1: year old girl, and this really shines the spotlight on it.
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Speaker 1: The remains of a twelve year old girl missing for
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Speaker 1: years may be buried at a vacant Michigan farm police
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Speaker 1: now believe is a graveyard, a burial site for many
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Speaker 1: many other girls. Police now digging on a remote property
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Speaker 1: and it's in Warren, Warren, Michigan. The Warren Police Commissioner,
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Speaker 1: Bill Dwyer says that he believes they are many others
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Speaker 1: buried there. They say they've got probably cause to believe
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Speaker 1: Kimberly is buried there and that there are other girls.
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Speaker 1: He did not give the names of the other missing
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Speaker 1: girls now. Kimberly was reported missing from the same area
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Speaker 1: around nineteen eighties. She was staying with her grandparents that night. Nothing.
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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about this guy? Arthur ream
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Speaker 1: John Limley, Well, Arthur has admitting has admitted since that
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Speaker 1: first nineteen eight six arrest for sexually assaulting a fourteen
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Speaker 1: year old girl to having a fetish four teenage girls. Uh.
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Speaker 1: Detectives therefore were very suspicious of Art when it came
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Speaker 1: to some other cases that had big question marks by them. Uh.
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Speaker 1: You know a lot of these cases have been treated
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Speaker 1: as runaways because there was there were never bodies found. Uh.
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Speaker 1: Cindy's case was finally reopened. When investigators interviewed Arthur Reem,
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Speaker 1: they said his behavior was rather telling because when they
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Speaker 1: first confronted him, he didn't ask why they wanted to
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Speaker 1: talk to him. He just said, I knew this day
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Speaker 1: would come. It's very odd, he said, I knew this
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Speaker 1: day would come. You know, I don't understand something, John Linley,
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Speaker 1: why there was not a full odd search for these
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Speaker 1: girls when they go missing. And it's very upsetting that
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Speaker 1: they were just discounted as runaways. That's one thing investigators
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Speaker 1: have not been able to understand because they're picking up
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Speaker 1: the pieces left behind by investigators from decades ago and
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Speaker 1: it's not sure. They're not sure if there just wasn't
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Speaker 1: enough suspicion to think that there really had been foul play,
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Speaker 1: or who knows, maybe personnel time was just under crunch
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Speaker 1: at that at that moment and they didn't have the
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Speaker 1: time to cover the cases. Here's another bizarre fact. Now
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Speaker 1: John Lily has detailed how apparently Reem lured the one
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Speaker 1: girl claiming that they were going to set up up
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Speaker 1: her little boyfriends. I mean, she's like her little boyfriend's
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Speaker 1: birthday party at a dairy queen. But what he really
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Speaker 1: does is lure her out under the pretense of a
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Speaker 1: surprise birthday party for her little boyfriend his son. So
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Speaker 1: she trusted him. He rapes and kills her. So that's
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Speaker 1: how that went down, and that is why she lied
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Speaker 1: to her parents. At first, it sounds bad that she
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Speaker 1: says she was going to this place. What she was
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Speaker 1: really going to do was set up a little surprise
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Speaker 1: birthday party at the local dairy queen. I remember growing up,
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Speaker 1: that was the closest thing to us, a dairy queen.
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Speaker 1: We had to drive twenty five minutes to get to that.
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Speaker 1: That was the big thing to go to dairy queen so,
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Speaker 1: as John Limley is telling us, the alleged purp, Reams
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Speaker 1: did not ask why cops were there. It just said
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Speaker 1: I knew this day would come. Now, here's the thing
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Speaker 1: about the son, Scott rem Son and Cindy's them little
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Speaker 1: boyfriend was killed in the n drunk driving incident. He
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Speaker 1: wasn't drinking. A drunk driver killed him. Now, in the
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Speaker 1: hopes of getting who they believed to be a serial
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Speaker 1: killer realm to reveal where Cindy's body is, the cops
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Speaker 1: take Ream to his son's grave and they let him
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Speaker 1: lay flowers there and they say, you've got your son's
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Speaker 1: body to burry, why can't Sindy's family the Arzikis have
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Speaker 1: that same peace. And according to them, Rain just shakes
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Speaker 1: his head and goes, that's a low blow. But then
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Speaker 1: he makes an offer to show investigators where Cindy's body
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Speaker 1: is where it was buried. He draws a map of
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Speaker 1: some land in Macomb Township that some of his friends owned,
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Speaker 1: and the map was way too difficult to understand, so
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Speaker 1: he was actually taken to where he's being held. He's
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Speaker 1: taken from there to where the map shows the body
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Speaker 1: will be. Seven hours passed the investigators found nothing. Okay,
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Speaker 1: even landowners nearby were helping to dig. Okay, they were
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Speaker 1: all digging, and then they see a purse, a purse
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Speaker 1: in the dirt, and a human leg next to shoes,
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Speaker 1: and they all belong to little Cindy. Dr Tiffany Sanders,
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Speaker 1: Chicago Psychologists. I cannot even imagine that moment you're out
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Speaker 1: there digging and you see a purse and shoes and
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Speaker 1: a human leg. Wow. Yeah, I would be totally frightened.
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Speaker 1: I don't even like scary movies though. Just just the
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Speaker 1: thought of seeing someone's legs, someone's helpless body poking out
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Speaker 1: of the ground. Those images can be seared in our
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Speaker 1: minds forever. They're so emotionally charged, and it can cause
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Speaker 1: whoever stumbled upon that person too to experience their own
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Speaker 1: sort of traumatic response. So we gotta think about those
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Speaker 1: who are who are digging and putting themselves out there
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Speaker 1: to help rescue this little girl or find her body.
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Speaker 1: They're likely dealing with some emotional backlash on that incident. Well,
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Speaker 1: that set the whole thing off, all right, And from
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Speaker 1: that location, we now believe that there are multiple little
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Speaker 1: girls bodies. We are on the trail of a serial
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Speaker 1: killer according to many. And he's got a lot to
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Speaker 1: be worried about right now because after the in ovation
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Speaker 1: and detective or in the Golden State killer case where
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Speaker 1: DNA from a long ago murder and rape case was
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Speaker 1: used and put into a site like ancestry dot com
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Speaker 1: through familial DNA, the Golden State killer was caught. Now,
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Speaker 1: if this guy is the right guy, d n A
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Speaker 1: on these little girls bodies, if it still exists, if
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Speaker 1: they're not totally skeletonized, which they may be, can be
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Speaker 1: matched up on genealogical websites through familial DNA and possibly
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Speaker 1: tie him to other murders. Now that he is in custody,
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Speaker 1: a search warrant can be conducted on him. It's called
15:45
Speaker 1: a bugle swab. You put something like a really long
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Speaker 1: Q tip into somebody's mouth and get their saliva. Now
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Speaker 1: that he's a suspect, even if there's not DNA left
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Speaker 1: on the girl's bodies, that saliva can be put in
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Speaker 1: the genealogical website to see all of the websites to
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Speaker 1: see if he is connected to any other crimes. See
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Speaker 1: his DNA can be put in the DNA database. It
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Speaker 1: can be used in so many different ways to possibly
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Speaker 1: link him to other murders of little girls. But right now, hey,
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Speaker 1: why are we talking about it? We've got it from
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Speaker 1: the horse's mouth. W D I V had a hidden
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Speaker 1: camera on Ream in a prison interview with a detective. Listen,
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Speaker 1: even talk to you Art Reem, convicted murderer, has no
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Speaker 1: idea he's on rescue for hidden camera. I've never knew
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Speaker 1: up on myself. I'm just saying that, you know, my
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Speaker 1: lad Ream killed thirteen year old Cindies are Ziki kidnapping
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Speaker 1: her from this East Point dairy queen next day? You know,
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Speaker 1: I know what I did was wrong. Reem will now
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Speaker 1: die in prison. But this murderer's hiding a secret, holding
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Speaker 1: Cindy's family hostage. I can't make up for the wrong
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Speaker 1: of darn. Re knows just where Cindy is buried, and
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Speaker 1: he knows family and police want the answer. Ream contacts
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Speaker 1: officers saying he has information to share. The decision on
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Speaker 1: how to unlock the secret falls on the shoulders of
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Speaker 1: these two men, Inspector John Calabaries and Detective Derek mac McLaughlin.
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Speaker 1: So what would you do you want that secret? You
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Speaker 1: know the answer would bring one family some comfort, a
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Speaker 1: little bit of relief from excruciating pain. Do you beg
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Speaker 1: plead with art Ream? Do you threaten him to get
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Speaker 1: the information? Inspector Calabaries does just the opposite. He tells
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Speaker 1: Mac to act like he just doesn't care, like it's
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Speaker 1: not important. With Rescue for Hidden Cameras, Rolling Mac puts
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Speaker 1: on his best poker face. He strolls into the Macomb
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Speaker 1: Correctional facility, ready to bloff. Alright, alright. When m rambles on,
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Speaker 1: Mac puts all the chips on the table. He tells
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Speaker 1: the murderer it's not important to know where Cindy is buried.
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Speaker 1: Everyone already has closure. Ream gets angry, wut here right now?
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Speaker 1: So you really don't care? What's happened? I don't have closures?
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Speaker 1: The help can make a closer, but Calibrees is confident.
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Speaker 1: Rem erupts because the killer, since is the only card
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Speaker 1: he has to bargain with, is no longer important. Calabarrees
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Speaker 1: tells Mac not to worry. Realm craves attention and he
18:39
Speaker 1: will be back. Just days later. Mac gets word Rem
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Speaker 1: is ready to talk. Are you doing alright? With Rescue
18:48
Speaker 1: for Hidden Cameras, Rolling Realm starts to explain his map,
18:51
Speaker 1: describing how he buried the thirteen year old. Can't do
18:56
Speaker 1: going avenue? Now, did you go pretty deep? For? Reem
19:05
Speaker 1: gets specific about Cindy's clothing and accessories that she were
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Speaker 1: the first year, just put her in the whole little
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Speaker 1: put her cool over? Does your physician of buying a
19:19
Speaker 1: certain way in the gold? With Reem talking, it seems
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Speaker 1: as if the police gamble is paying off is cross
19:28
Speaker 1: to anyway? But remember this is no game. What really
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Speaker 1: matters is not that Realm is talking, but if he's
19:38
Speaker 1: telling the truth and if police can find Cindy. And
19:42
Speaker 1: he said that the bridge was like right in here.
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Speaker 1: Just days after this hidden camera confession calabaries, Mac and
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Speaker 1: other police officers uncover reems twenty two year old secret
19:53
Speaker 1: the bones of little Cindy. Happy for the family that
19:57
Speaker 1: we can hopefully put give the family a lot of closure.
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Speaker 1: Varied exactly how him described face up with her purse
20:04
Speaker 1: on her chest and a jacket nearby. It's a bittersweet
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Speaker 1: moment for Cindy's family, whose search has come to an end.
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Speaker 1: They had no idea if Cindy was dead or alive
20:13
Speaker 1: for more than two decades. We want to make sure
20:16
Speaker 1: we place her um at rest. She is at rest
20:21
Speaker 1: and not where somebody laft Karen Smith. He makes me
20:26
Speaker 1: sick because he's talking about his life is over, how
20:32
Speaker 1: he's suffering because he's being caught, how he's suffered because
20:36
Speaker 1: of what he did, the guilt of her killing Cindy.
20:39
Speaker 1: But there's so many others he kept doing it. I mean,
20:42
Speaker 1: why is he talking about his pain and suffering with
20:45
Speaker 1: so typical nancy, the narcissism, And it's all me, me, me,
20:49
Speaker 1: you know, this is just so typical of of these predators,
20:52
Speaker 1: of these you know, people who prey on the helpless
20:55
Speaker 1: children in our society. It's all about me and what
20:59
Speaker 1: I'm going through. Well, talk about the families and what
21:01
Speaker 1: those little girls went through. And you know, my prayers
21:04
Speaker 1: right now are that investigators are able to find the
21:09
Speaker 1: remains of these little girls that have been missing for
21:11
Speaker 1: decades and give these families some closure. I don't know
21:15
Speaker 1: if they'll be able to break this Arthur Reeen guy
21:18
Speaker 1: and have him go back to the scene and maybe
21:20
Speaker 1: point out where he's put these other bodies, but that
21:22
Speaker 1: sure would be a help at this point, because investigators
21:25
Speaker 1: have their work cut out for them. This guy a
21:28
Speaker 1: master manipulator, tricking this little girl into telling her he
21:32
Speaker 1: was planning surprise birthday party for his son. Because the
21:37
Speaker 1: little girl had been dating his son at the time
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Speaker 1: of her disappearance, well as much as thirteen or fourteen
21:45
Speaker 1: year old little kids can date. I guess that means
21:47
Speaker 1: holding hand at the in the movie theater when their
21:50
Speaker 1: parents drop him off. So he used his own son
21:54
Speaker 1: as bait. Okay uh. From that, police have continued agging
22:00
Speaker 1: to Dr Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist, A, I'm very interested
22:06
Speaker 1: in his narcissism, that it's all about him and how
22:09
Speaker 1: he's suffering now. But also police say he is a
22:13
Speaker 1: control freak. What does that mean to you, Well, it
22:17
Speaker 1: seems like he uses manipulation to get what he wants,
22:21
Speaker 1: so he, you know, controls the circumstances to his benefit,
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Speaker 1: exploiting young people, including his own son. He probably you know,
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Speaker 1: got information from his young son to to create this
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Speaker 1: situation for the young girl to come visit and go
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Speaker 1: to the ice cream shop and not thinking she was
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Speaker 1: going to that was gonna be your last day on
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Speaker 1: this space with his earth. So he's controlling, he's narcissistic.
22:44
Speaker 1: He thinks about himself. He has this grandiose idea that
22:48
Speaker 1: you know, he's entitled to these young girls. What makes
22:52
Speaker 1: you think you're entitled. You're a grown man, go after
22:54
Speaker 1: a woman and date her like everybody else tends to
22:57
Speaker 1: date and Mary. So this man is obvious be sick.
23:00
Speaker 1: He needs well he really needed help. But he's in
23:03
Speaker 1: the best place he could beat, which is behind bars. Man,
23:06
Speaker 1: he can really lie. Dr Tiffany because he came up
23:09
Speaker 1: with some yarn about the little girl had fallen off
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Speaker 1: an elevator and that they buried her. That's such a
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Speaker 1: lot because none of her bounds reveal, reveal, any breakage, fracture, nothing.
23:26
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine after all these years the
23:29
Speaker 1: family finally having closure and not in a good way.
23:35
Speaker 1: To John Linley, Crime Online investigative reporter, how are the
23:39
Speaker 1: girls similar? The seven that they think are buried, and
23:43
Speaker 1: of course opperdate there will be more. Who are they?
23:45
Speaker 1: How are they similar? Well? One that investigators are really
23:50
Speaker 1: focused and they're hoping that they're going to be able
23:53
Speaker 1: to find her is uh Kimberly King, this girl that's
23:57
Speaker 1: been missing since September of nine and she was staying
24:00
Speaker 1: with her grandparents that night she wanted to go to
24:03
Speaker 1: a movie with her older sister. She was trying to
24:06
Speaker 1: pack in a lot that night. Uh. She also uh
24:10
Speaker 1: snuck out of a sleepover that same night through a
24:14
Speaker 1: bedroom window and she went to hang out in this
24:17
Speaker 1: is again Warren, Michigan close to Lake St. Clair. She
24:22
Speaker 1: went to Warren's cruising spot now around eleven that night,
24:26
Speaker 1: she calls one of her sisters, Connie, from a pay
24:30
Speaker 1: phone that's not far at all from her grandparents house. Uh.
24:34
Speaker 1: Connie tells her to go back to Annie's, that it's
24:37
Speaker 1: too late to be out for a twelve year old
24:39
Speaker 1: to be running around town. It's not really known what
24:43
Speaker 1: happens next, but we do know that late this late
24:48
Speaker 1: night pay phone call to her sister would be the
24:50
Speaker 1: last time that any of Kimberly's family or friends would
24:54
Speaker 1: ever talk with her. And this is just one of
24:57
Speaker 1: the cases that may be tied to ease woods in
25:01
Speaker 1: this farmland. Can you imagine finding out your little girl
25:06
Speaker 1: is buried out there after years of wondering if she
25:09
Speaker 1: just ran away and is living somewhere away from you,
25:13
Speaker 1: that would be just awful. And to find out she
25:16
Speaker 1: was actually dead and there's no doubt that he raped
25:19
Speaker 1: them in my mind, because there are other victims that
25:22
Speaker 1: we know of this guy. Arthur Remon already served hard
25:26
Speaker 1: time for a child sex offense in Shelby Township, and
25:29
Speaker 1: and that was in seventy five, and then again in
25:33
Speaker 1: for a case out of Gladwin County, both of them
25:36
Speaker 1: child sex offenses. Why was he even out is my question?
25:40
Speaker 1: For other women have come forward now claiming they were
25:43
Speaker 1: assaulted by him when they were younger and and nothing happened.
25:48
Speaker 1: I just I don't understand that there's this huge line
25:52
Speaker 1: of victims and now it's resulting because he kept getting out,
25:57
Speaker 1: getting out, getting out on child sex offenses. We now
26:02
Speaker 1: know he has committed murder on these children. A very
26:06
Speaker 1: disturbing past for Arthur him. And I'm stunned, Karen Smith,
26:13
Speaker 1: and he had all these offenses and he wasn't kept
26:16
Speaker 1: behind bars, Karen. Isn't that typical, Nancy? You know, these
26:20
Speaker 1: guys rely on a broken system to go out and
26:24
Speaker 1: keep reoffending and keep reoffending, and that's what apparently happened
26:28
Speaker 1: here with Arthur Reid. As soon as he got out,
26:31
Speaker 1: he went right back to his old behavior as his
26:33
Speaker 1: old emos trolling for these little girls. And you know,
26:37
Speaker 1: you said that there's probably more bodies in the woods,
26:40
Speaker 1: and I agree with you. We're not going to stop
26:42
Speaker 1: at seven. There's gonna be more. Well, here's the other thing.
26:47
Speaker 1: You know, there's no death penalty in Michigan. So this
26:50
Speaker 1: guy can rape as many children as he wants to
26:54
Speaker 1: and murder as many children as he wanted to, and
26:58
Speaker 1: he will get no more or than anybody else had
27:01
Speaker 1: pulled a gun and shot somebody in a bar. Okay,
27:05
Speaker 1: that's how this is going to go down. That is
27:08
Speaker 1: how this is going to go down. And the whole
27:11
Speaker 1: thing is just so disturbing to me. Up to seven girls,
27:18
Speaker 1: six to seven girls, we believe, are buried at a
27:21
Speaker 1: McCombe township burial site by a guy who had repeated
27:28
Speaker 1: convictions for child sex attacks. Arthur Ream police now searching
27:36
Speaker 1: the woods. It's a little bit north of Detroit for
27:40
Speaker 1: bodies of these young girls. How are they doing it,
27:43
Speaker 1: Karen Smith, you're the forensics expert. How are they going about?
27:46
Speaker 1: I mean, you go out to a completely wooded area,
27:49
Speaker 1: it's all overgrown with trees, with fallen trees, with underbrush.
27:54
Speaker 1: How do you do it well. To say that this
27:56
Speaker 1: is going to be a a complex undertaking would be
27:59
Speaker 1: an understate it. Nancy. You know, at this point we
28:02
Speaker 1: have advanced technology. We have ground penetrating radar, we have
28:07
Speaker 1: cadaver dogs. Aerial photography can show differences in the land
28:13
Speaker 1: and how it's laid out, and maybe differences in the
28:15
Speaker 1: soil areas that they haven't looked at before. And the
28:19
Speaker 1: problem is, if they uncover one body, they have to
28:24
Speaker 1: individualize that body because now we're dealing with multiple victims.
28:28
Speaker 1: So it's not just a matter of uncovering skeletal remains.
28:32
Speaker 1: It's a matter of doing age, sex, ancestry, stature, and
28:35
Speaker 1: then doing the individual characteristics to identify that child as
28:41
Speaker 1: the victim they were looking for. They may uncover a
28:44
Speaker 1: body they weren't expecting. It's going to make it so
28:46
Speaker 1: much more complex and so much more difficult, you know,
28:49
Speaker 1: as freaky Dotor Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist. On another note,
28:53
Speaker 1: regarding this perv Arthur Rain, who was ps doing another
28:58
Speaker 1: jail term on uh a child sex attack. I don't
29:02
Speaker 1: know how many of those he's got, but Dr Tiffany,
29:06
Speaker 1: this guy once had a family, Okay, somewhere out there
29:10
Speaker 1: there is a wife who knows everything about this guy,
29:16
Speaker 1: if we can find her. And he passed for normal
29:20
Speaker 1: because he looked like he was a typical or looked
29:22
Speaker 1: like he had a typical all American family, wife, children,
29:25
Speaker 1: probably involved in the community. But you know, when you
29:27
Speaker 1: have an intimate partner, a husband or a spouse or
29:30
Speaker 1: a wife, you you tend to know them very well.
29:32
Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask her if I had the
29:35
Speaker 1: chance to say, where there are some suspicious things about
29:38
Speaker 1: his behavior when he would come home. Um, and did
29:40
Speaker 1: he have any sort of marks on him? Did he, uh,
29:44
Speaker 1: you know, have any sort of vices or fantasies that
29:48
Speaker 1: you thought were kind of weird and unusual, Because if
29:51
Speaker 1: your partner knows you well, you can pick up on
29:53
Speaker 1: those things. But you know, sometimes, you know, some people
29:56
Speaker 1: turn a blind eye and and and in this case,
29:59
Speaker 1: it could have we happened. But that is very unusual
30:02
Speaker 1: to have a wonderful, beautiful family. But you're going out
30:06
Speaker 1: in your targeting these unsuspecting twelve thirteen fourteen year old
30:10
Speaker 1: girls disgusting. For the longest time, there was hope Cindy
30:14
Speaker 1: Zarzeki was alive. There were alleged signings of her in Florida,
30:19
Speaker 1: across the Southwest and the south. Finally, eight years after
30:24
Speaker 1: she goes mission, she was pronounced dead, but her family
30:27
Speaker 1: never had a body to bury. That ended when she
30:32
Speaker 1: was finally found on this Macomb County tract of land.
30:38
Speaker 1: Now there are other families waiting in line, wondering if
30:43
Speaker 1: their child will be the next be uncovered and identified
30:48
Speaker 1: a victim of Arthur Reem police burning the midnight oil
30:53
Speaker 1: looking for more bodies of little girls. Listen, we do
30:57
Speaker 1: have it, you know, probably cause to believe that this
31:00
Speaker 1: is a grave site, no question about it. That Kimberly
31:04
Speaker 1: King and other young female victims who were murdered are
31:08
Speaker 1: buried here. And we believe we have a suspect. And
31:11
Speaker 1: you know who that suspect is. He's already been convicted,
31:14
Speaker 1: he's in prison. We were hoping that would get a
31:17
Speaker 1: little more cooperation from him. But we're going to do
31:20
Speaker 1: our jobs as far as law enforcement. Uh. This search
31:23
Speaker 1: could last up to two or three, four or five days.
31:26
Speaker 1: Whatever it takes, we're gonna do it. We're very cautiously
31:29
Speaker 1: optimistic that we're going to Unfortunately, fine remains, but the
31:35
Speaker 1: key issue here as part as what we're trying to do,
31:38
Speaker 1: because we're trying to bring closure, trying to bring closure
31:41
Speaker 1: to the families, the families of the victims. That's the
31:45
Speaker 1: key here. The search goes on. There's a brand new
31:49
Speaker 1: website causing a lot of trouble for people with something
31:52
Speaker 1: to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about
31:54
Speaker 1: somebody may be suspected your partners cheating, may be worried
31:58
Speaker 1: about your online rep utation. If you answer yes to
32:02
Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Public
32:06
Speaker 1: records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like
32:12
Speaker 1: truth Finder, you most likely have to visit a courthouse
32:15
Speaker 1: to get that information. Now it's as simple as entering
32:18
Speaker 1: a name. Truth Finder sifts through millions of public records
32:22
Speaker 1: from all over the country, assembling them into one easy
32:26
Speaker 1: to read report. Search the names of somebody you know,
32:29
Speaker 1: you could find criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information,
32:34
Speaker 1: social dating profiles, financial assets, and a lot more. Why
32:38
Speaker 1: fork out thousands to a private investigator when you can
32:42
Speaker 1: do the job yourself. Everybody you know has something to hide.
32:48
Speaker 1: Now you can root out the most dangerous people before
32:51
Speaker 1: you become the next victim. It's not just used to
32:55
Speaker 1: us bad people. Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family,
33:00
Speaker 1: even people who served with them in the military. It's
33:03
Speaker 1: never been so easy to find the truth. Go to
33:06
Speaker 1: truth finder dot com slash Nancy and enter any name
33:10
Speaker 1: to get started. My message to those responsible simply this,
33:15
Speaker 1: we will find you. We will knock on every door,
33:19
Speaker 1: talk to every witness, watch every piece of video, and
33:23
Speaker 1: analyze every piece of evidence. Believe me, you will not
33:27
Speaker 1: get away with this. And now to Chicago and a
33:31
Speaker 1: t F agent gunned down, a nationwide man hunt for
33:37
Speaker 1: the cup shooter. Right now we are learning in the
33:41
Speaker 1: last hours a takedown. Joining me right now, John Limley,
33:46
Speaker 1: Crime Online investigative reporter. What do we know? First of all,
33:50
Speaker 1: let's start with this shooting. For those of you that
33:53
Speaker 1: don't know about the a t F agent gunned down
33:57
Speaker 1: in the line of duty, start at the beginning, John Limley, Nancy.
34:01
Speaker 1: In the pre dawn hours of Friday, the reputed gang
34:05
Speaker 1: member Ernesto Gordinez, he slipped out of the back of
34:09
Speaker 1: the yards home. This is the area in which he
34:12
Speaker 1: lives in Chicago. He cut through a gangway about a
34:16
Speaker 1: block away from where undercover federal agents were working a
34:21
Speaker 1: gang investigation. Now thankfully, back it up, Back it up
34:25
Speaker 1: with me, John Limley, Crime Online investigative reporter. It's the
34:29
Speaker 1: Almighty Saints, that's the gang we're talking about, and they
34:34
Speaker 1: are brutal, brutal. They will gun you down just as
34:39
Speaker 1: soon as look at you, John Limley. These gangs have
34:43
Speaker 1: been plaguing Chicago for so many years, and in this
34:49
Speaker 1: part of Chicago it's it's their domain. So what I
34:54
Speaker 1: understand is surveillance cameras that were set up for another matter,
34:59
Speaker 1: another at er UH captured the shooter entering an alley
35:05
Speaker 1: just literally moments, not even minutes, moments before seven shots
35:12
Speaker 1: rang out. I mean, you know Karen Smith with me,
35:16
Speaker 1: forensic sex put along with Dr Tiffany Sanders, well known
35:19
Speaker 1: Chicago psychologist. Karen. When you're in law enforcement, all those
35:26
Speaker 1: years that I prosecuted trumping through housing projects, very often
35:30
Speaker 1: all by myself, with nothing in my hand but a
35:33
Speaker 1: subpoena to deliver to somebody, or beat up old polaroid
35:37
Speaker 1: County issue camera to take crime scene photos. I guess
35:41
Speaker 1: you go into it every day knowing you could take
35:45
Speaker 1: a bullet, knowing you could be shot at. I guess
35:49
Speaker 1: I knew it. In fact, I remember one episode Karen
35:53
Speaker 1: where my investigator and I broad daylight knocking on a
35:56
Speaker 1: door trying to find a witness. It was really bright outside,
36:00
Speaker 1: and the people had a screen door, an old dark
36:03
Speaker 1: screen door, fully screened door, which is very common in
36:06
Speaker 1: the South, over their regular door, and you couldn't see
36:11
Speaker 1: through it, and it was in the shade, and I
36:15
Speaker 1: was in the bright sunlight, and all of a sudden
36:19
Speaker 1: I see a barrel coming out of the door right
36:24
Speaker 1: at our faces, and my investigator and I he grabbed me.
36:27
Speaker 1: We dove off the porch, dove into the bushes. Okay,
36:33
Speaker 1: And I guess I recount it now anecdotally, but I
36:38
Speaker 1: really didn't think about it when I would get ready
36:40
Speaker 1: to go out on the street or a workye case,
36:43
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about the fact that I would
36:47
Speaker 1: can meet with danger. And now this a t F agent,
36:51
Speaker 1: like so many other cops, goes to work that evening
36:55
Speaker 1: and he gets shot by a gang member. What about it? Care?
37:00
Speaker 1: I recall moments like that as well, Nancy. And you
37:03
Speaker 1: know when you put on the uniform, especially a t F,
37:06
Speaker 1: I mean alcohol, tobacco, farms. Just the title of their
37:10
Speaker 1: job elicits danger and even more so than a beat cop.
37:15
Speaker 1: And that's what I was, was just a beat cop.
37:17
Speaker 1: And and I remember going into certain neighborhoods and just
37:20
Speaker 1: having my guard up, knowing full well that it was
37:23
Speaker 1: a dangerous area. So these guys were not complacent. They weren't,
37:28
Speaker 1: you know, not getting each other's backs. It was just
37:31
Speaker 1: a quick happenstance. They didn't see it coming. This gang
37:35
Speaker 1: member decided it was in his interest too, off these
37:40
Speaker 1: this a t S agent and shoot him in the face.
37:43
Speaker 1: And that's part of all. Oh, just so way we're
37:46
Speaker 1: even saying that shoot him in the face. Well, once
37:49
Speaker 1: again I'm gotten ahead of myself. I'm putting the cart
37:52
Speaker 1: before the horse, John Limley back to you. So the
37:54
Speaker 1: surveillance cameras are set up and for another matter, and
37:59
Speaker 1: they happened to cat this almighty Saint Game member and
38:03
Speaker 1: what do they see? Well, And the sad thing was
38:06
Speaker 1: is at the moment they were actually working on a
38:10
Speaker 1: device that they were using, their their attention wasn't even
38:14
Speaker 1: uh in the direction that Gornitez uh Ernesto Granitez was
38:19
Speaker 1: coming from. Let me ask you this, John Lenly, isn't
38:22
Speaker 1: it true that the agent and his whole team we're
38:28
Speaker 1: looking down because they were changing batteries and a car
38:32
Speaker 1: tracking device at that moment. They were all looking down,
38:37
Speaker 1: And at that moment it was about three fifteen a m.
38:41
Speaker 1: Which I believe is truly the witching hour. I don't
38:44
Speaker 1: think it's twelve. I agree with the little girl in
38:47
Speaker 1: bf G, Big Friendly Giant. The witching hour is three am.
38:51
Speaker 1: I'm convinced of it. Had so many laugh if you
38:54
Speaker 1: want people, go ahead, Karen forensics expert Dr Tiffany Shrank,
38:59
Speaker 1: John Emily, go ahead, Alan Deack. I know you're laughing
39:02
Speaker 1: into your hand out there in your posh penthouse pad
39:05
Speaker 1: in l A. Jackie sit saying, yes, there's something about
39:09
Speaker 1: the three am time. I had so many murders. I
39:13
Speaker 1: know I'm supposed to be the just the facts man,
39:16
Speaker 1: but I've heard all my life that three has some
39:20
Speaker 1: sort of spooky significant. Okay, we're getting all voodoo. We've
39:23
Speaker 1: got to stop. People will mock us, but we all
39:26
Speaker 1: know it's true. Okay, So they're all looking down and
39:30
Speaker 1: the guy opens up a heel of bullets. Go ahead,
39:34
Speaker 1: and as the officers immediately started scrambling after the agent.
39:39
Speaker 1: One agent has been hit in the face. Officers call
39:45
Speaker 1: the officers call dispatch for back up. The suspect runs
39:51
Speaker 1: back to his house which is just right there, uh
39:55
Speaker 1: near the scene of the shooting, before he hops into
39:58
Speaker 1: a vehicle and drives off. And they've got most of
40:01
Speaker 1: it or some of it on surveillance video, but it's
40:05
Speaker 1: very grainy and it's very dark. Just f y I.
40:08
Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany Sanders joining us from Chicago. This is your backyard.
40:12
Speaker 1: It's Chicago back of the Yards neighborhood. And the this gang,
40:17
Speaker 1: the Almighty Saints, are about sixty year old. There are
40:22
Speaker 1: sixty year old street gang. That's how long they have
40:26
Speaker 1: been a para site on Chicago. So what does Chicago
40:31
Speaker 1: have to say to this? Dr Tiffany has taken him
40:33
Speaker 1: sixty years and they can't get rid of the Almighty Saints. Yeah, Nancy,
40:36
Speaker 1: this is really, you know, such a sad situation. Uh.
40:40
Speaker 1: A t F agent doing their job three am in
40:42
Speaker 1: the morning, unsuspecting and this man takes an opportunity, a
40:47
Speaker 1: sucker opportunity to shoot, uh pretty much on armed agent
40:52
Speaker 1: at that moment, a defenseless agent rather and when you
40:56
Speaker 1: think about our community being uh para I by these parasites,
41:01
Speaker 1: is quite frustrating because you don't want to take your
41:05
Speaker 1: children outside, you don't want to play on the streets
41:07
Speaker 1: because you don't know when a random bullet from some
41:11
Speaker 1: stupid gang member who's fighting someone and they cannot shoot
41:14
Speaker 1: because they never hit their targets. They always seem to
41:17
Speaker 1: hit some random child. It's just very disheartening to hear
41:22
Speaker 1: and read these stories on a weekly basis and the
41:24
Speaker 1: news and unfortunately Chicago has not done the best of
41:28
Speaker 1: job in trying to get at these game members. And unfortunately,
41:33
Speaker 1: also the residents don't turn each other in and they
41:36
Speaker 1: know who's doing the bad things, and they're raising these
41:40
Speaker 1: parasites and they don't want to do anything about it.
41:42
Speaker 1: Listen to this. Despite six dollars in reward money and
41:46
Speaker 1: I passion please from police and public officials for community assistance,
41:50
Speaker 1: Law enforcement sources tell the I Team there were no
41:53
Speaker 1: tips offered by neighborhood residents in the a t F shooting,
41:57
Speaker 1: seen as an indication of the grip the Almighty Saying
42:00
Speaker 1: gang has on residence. Well, I had a lot of
42:03
Speaker 1: gang prosecutions in the Inner City Atlanta. But when the
42:06
Speaker 1: Almighty Saints came on my radar was the late nineties
42:11
Speaker 1: when a twelve year old Saint Almighty st member went
42:16
Speaker 1: through quote initiation and gunned down two rival gang members
42:21
Speaker 1: that were about uh fourteen. That's when I first heard
42:27
Speaker 1: the name Almighty sat. And at that time I was
42:30
Speaker 1: in the middle of UM a case there was later
42:36
Speaker 1: tried called Doom. It was the Doom gang and there
42:43
Speaker 1: were a lot of murders and a lot of shootings.
42:47
Speaker 1: I had a shooting an aggravated assault case that was
42:52
Speaker 1: a Doom member and they would like torture the person first.
42:56
Speaker 1: And I started working with a gang squad as it
42:59
Speaker 1: was at the time, and I heard about the Almighty
43:02
Speaker 1: Saints in Chicago. UM it's the new mob, is street mob,
43:08
Speaker 1: the new mafia, and they run all of it's like
43:12
Speaker 1: organized crime. They were in all the crime within their turf, drugs, prostitution, theft, larceny,
43:21
Speaker 1: everything evil. And the people that live in that area
43:27
Speaker 1: are subject to a bunch of thugs rule John Limley.
43:34
Speaker 1: So they shoot the a t F agent they take off.
43:40
Speaker 1: The surveillance is very gritty, it's at night, but it
43:43
Speaker 1: turns out this guy Um Gadinez and his brother Rodrigo
43:50
Speaker 1: are the leaders of the Almighty Saints and they can
43:54
Speaker 1: both rot in h E double l as far as
43:57
Speaker 1: I'm concerned, So takedown a cur tell me what happened.
44:01
Speaker 1: This is an interesting point. While surveillance footage places Godin
44:05
Speaker 1: as near the spot where the shots were fired, the
44:09
Speaker 1: criminal complaint is not alleged he was actually seen firing
44:13
Speaker 1: the gun. Also, which has investigators scratching, is why in
44:18
Speaker 1: the world Godin as open fire or whether he knew
44:22
Speaker 1: he was even firing at agents, Because see, these guys
44:25
Speaker 1: were in plain clothes while we're setting up for uh
44:29
Speaker 1: their own task force in the neighborhood where he lived.
44:33
Speaker 1: Long story short, and arrest has gone. Damn. What do
44:37
Speaker 1: we know about these guys and and how exactly were
44:40
Speaker 1: they caught? John Limley Well Records show that both brothers
44:44
Speaker 1: have some extensive criminal histories. It was Ernesto Um and
44:50
Speaker 1: his brother Rodrigo Uh. They were charged in twenty eleven
44:54
Speaker 1: with the attempted murder for a shooting in that same neighborhood,
44:59
Speaker 1: then picked up on a separate charge of aggravated unlawful
45:03
Speaker 1: use of a weapon for an incident in March twelve
45:06
Speaker 1: while he was on bond. He ended up resolving both
45:10
Speaker 1: cases a couple of years ago by pleading guilty to
45:13
Speaker 1: aggravated discharge of a firearm and aggravated unlawful use of
45:17
Speaker 1: a weapon. So he has been on the radar screen
45:21
Speaker 1: for investigators for quite some time. Listen to this Ernie
45:25
Speaker 1: Godinez cuffed and in custody a pre arranged surrender for
45:29
Speaker 1: the man prosecutors say shot an undercover federal agent last Friday.
45:34
Speaker 1: Sources say Godinez turned himself in with his lawyer in
45:37
Speaker 1: a parking lot behind the First District Police station yesterday.
45:40
Speaker 1: Two different surveillance cameras captured Gordinez in the area, and
45:44
Speaker 1: at least three cameras captured what happened during the shooting.
45:47
Speaker 1: Gordnez is seen on video leaving his home heading down
45:50
Speaker 1: an alley. They claimed. Godinez has seen leaving his home
45:53
Speaker 1: shortly after three in the morning and walking to an
45:56
Speaker 1: area where shell casings were later found. Video also alleged
46:00
Speaker 1: he shows Gordinya's running back towards his nearby home right
46:03
Speaker 1: after shots were fired. The complaints says a t F
46:06
Speaker 1: agents were in the neighborhood to place a tracking device
46:09
Speaker 1: on a suspects vehicle. I know this. In the past days,
46:15
Speaker 1: eighty four people were shot in Chicago, eighty four and
46:23
Speaker 1: that includes I think it was nine homicides. What in
46:30
Speaker 1: the hay is going on is because the weather gets warm?
46:34
Speaker 1: I mean, Karen Smith, I know people scoff at that,
46:37
Speaker 1: but there's a clear increase in violent crime when weather
46:42
Speaker 1: gets warm. Why that has been a conundrum that police
46:45
Speaker 1: have worked with forever. You've got the full moon, you know,
46:49
Speaker 1: saying you've got the warm weather thing, but it is
46:52
Speaker 1: a fact crime spikes when spring hits. And you know,
46:56
Speaker 1: to have nine murders and how many shootings for that's insane.
47:01
Speaker 1: They have got to get a grip on this somehow,
47:05
Speaker 1: some way. What do we know about where they're being held?
47:08
Speaker 1: Are they both behind bars? I mean, if you could
47:10
Speaker 1: see this mug shot, this guy's got such a smirk
47:13
Speaker 1: on his face, I just want to wipe it off.
47:17
Speaker 1: It's Ernesto good Dinez charged with shooting an a t
47:22
Speaker 1: F agent in this past week. The agent shot while
47:27
Speaker 1: working with Chicago police in the back of the Yards area.
47:32
Speaker 1: A reputed gang member, Ornesto Goodness snuck out of his
47:37
Speaker 1: home in their early morning darkness, cuts through an alley
47:43
Speaker 1: about a blot from where federal agents were working on
47:46
Speaker 1: a gang investigation, and because of that, he's caught on
47:50
Speaker 1: surveillance video. But here's the kicker, I don't know how
47:55
Speaker 1: good that surveillance video is at night. I don't know
47:58
Speaker 1: what they captured to the State is not going to
48:00
Speaker 1: be able to rely on that. They're gonna have to
48:03
Speaker 1: come up with the weapon. They're going to have to
48:05
Speaker 1: come up with testimony, and it is not easy to
48:10
Speaker 1: crack a gang member and make them talk. Nancy Grace
48:18
Speaker 1: Crime Stories signing off. All we can do now is
48:23
Speaker 1: pray for the a t F agent and his family.
48:28
Speaker 1: Goodbye Clip