Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 9/1/26: Hasan Piker Interviewed On Dem Attacks, Abdul, Media & MORE!

Transcript

9/1/26: Hasan Piker Interviewed On Dem Attacks, Abdul, Media & MORE! · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,
• 0:05
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• 0:27
  Speaker 1: news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Joining us now is a man who has been frequently
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: discussed but rarely interviewed for some reason, Hasan Piker.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Welcome. Great to see you, Hasan. It's good to see you, man.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. I'm blacklisted from all of
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: these mainstream outlets, so it's always great to be able
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: to communicate my ideas and not have my first interaction
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: be a negatively framed clip. Or just outright lies, you know?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Well, you don't know what I'm going to start with,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: so don't judge the seconds.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Definitely don't know what I'm going to start with.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: No, I wanted to just start with, like, what does
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: it feel like to have been made the main character
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: of this election? And why do you think that Republicans
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: and establishment Democrats have decided to make you the official
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: boogeyman of the midterm cycle?
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: I think we're living in stupid world. I think we
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: have an illiteracy crisis in America. We have a crisis
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: in critical thinking. The Republicans have completely run out of
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: all other options, really. I mean, what could they run on?
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: Could they run on the economy? Could they run on
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: how Donald Trump has ended all wars? They can't run
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: on any of those things. So they have no good
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: record to run on. And they've decided, egged on by,
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: I believe, initially Third Way and other neoliberals in the
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: consultant class in the Beltway, They decided, you know, we're
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: going to attack the DSA and we're going to attack Hassan.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: And it's going to be the clip show with the
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: hopes that this will at least divide the Democratic Party's
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: base enough so that they have more competitive chances in
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: the midterms when it's a plus seven national Democrat favored environment.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting, you know, having met you, I'm
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: always fascinated by people who are like, you know, he's
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: a radical main character. And I was like, that was
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: really the opposite of my experience whenever we met. And
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: we did that event a few months after the Charlie
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Kirk assassination. But I do, it's a bigger picture. And
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I really want you to kind of think about this.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: When Trump has dinner with Nick Fuentes, it's a big story.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not comparing the two, but I'm saying he took somebody,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: he had.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: Dinner with him.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: He was asked about his views, a lot of other Republicans.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: We're asked about their views, their most controversial statements. When
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Tony Hinchcliffe does a Puerto Rico joke at the closing
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Trump rally, it's a national story about Puerto Rico. Trump
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: has to answer for what Tony Hinchcliffe himself had said
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: when Tucker Carlson campaigns with Trump on the campaign trail,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Trump is then asked about things that Tucker Carlson may
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: or may not have said. Abdul, by his own admission,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: invited you to campaign with him. I believe you can
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: correct the record if that's true. You do seem very
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: annoyed people keep being asked to, you know, go after
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: or to renounce things and all that you have said.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: But it's kind of fair. Now, if you're going to
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: insert yourself as a canvasser and as a campaign surrogate,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: when I think you yourself would have thought if Trump
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: is going to campaign with these people, well, then it
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: is fair to ask whether they agree or disagree with
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: all the things that these people have said. I'm curious
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: for what you think about that.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: So I don't disagree with you at all. I think
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: it's perfectly valid. The issue here, however, is that it
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: doesn't actually work. right? And, and there is, I think, look,
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: we're all in the media. I think we can all agree.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: There has never been a media feeding frenzy to this
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: magnitude ever before. I like the Tony Hinchcliffe thing was
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: 48 hours max, right? Maybe a week. This has been
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: going on since April and, and it is only escalated.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: So I think there's something more nefarious at play besides
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: a fire brand that is under attack. I think there's different, uh, there,
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: there are different motivating forces here. Obviously the most obvious
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: one is, is, you know, I am a prominent critic
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: of Israel, very frustrating for a lot of people who
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: recognize that Israel has fallen out of favor. Uh, and,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: and they want to engage in a disciplining operation to
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: make sure that, uh, candidates shy away from even communicating
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: their thoughts on Israel. I'm, I am being made an
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: example of, right. The other reason for how long this
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: has gone on, not the fact that people are asking
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: about these questions, but more so for the continuation of
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: this manufactured outrage cycle that seemingly is not going away.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: And by Republicans' own admissions, this is their midterm strategy.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: There was an Axios report that came out, I believe,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: a couple of weeks ago where they openly said, we
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: don't really have anything else. We're just going to blast
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: clips on the timeline. Hassan Piker, James Tallarico is woke
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: and gay. Abdul El-Sayed is a, is a Islamist jihadist
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: and DSA wants to, you know, imprison every police officer
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: in the country. Like, so that's, that's kind of what
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: they're going with. And the reason why they're going with
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: that is because they just don't have any other options.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: So that I see their motivation. I understand their motivation.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: What's frustrating to me is why mainstream outlets are that
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: are otherwise liberal, are going along with this beyond the
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: point where it would make sense.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Like in what way? Like, what do you mean by that?
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is approximately gone on. This is approximately
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: gone on for more than, I would say, like 17
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: school shooting media cycles. I think the intensity and the
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: frequency of it all, every candidate being asked to condemn
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: me not just being asked about my comments, but specifically
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: to condemn me and disavow me.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: Candidates that I've never actually encountered being suspected of engaging
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: in dangerous anti-American activities by the likes of Gayle King.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: When she interviewed Angie Nixon right after she won her
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: primary in this been a spectacular upset victory. Her first
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: question was not even a question. It was an accusation.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: You campaigned with us on Piker. How do you feel
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: about that? I mean, is that even appropriate? And she
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: was like, I have not, we had not campaigned together.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: But CBS news already had pictures of me ready to
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: go where they put photos of me up next to
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: Angie Nixon's face. And then Gail Nixon was Gail King.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: It was shocked. And, and she followed up with, well,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: would you even campaign with them? Would you disavow him
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: ahead of time? Like that's a little crazy, right? So
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: I don't think I'm alone in feeling like that's a
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: little crazy. Cause I'm seeing allies in very unlikely places
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: like boomers that have no idea who I am, who
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: are encountering my commentary for the first time ever. And I, I,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: I just read the Michelle Goldberg, New York times op-ed
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: piece that came out last night. And the comments are
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: very mixed. Like you would not expect New York Times
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: readers and New York Times commenters on the op-ed segment
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: to be like, why are we talking about this guy?
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: This guy's fine. He's just activating young people to go
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: out and vote. And you're all freaking out. And my
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: question always is this. It's not about Nick Fuentes. I
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: don't think that's an apt comparison, but it's more so
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: about Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk was a party apparatchik. He
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: worked within the confines of the Republican Party. And Charlie
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: Kirk had a lot of very viral and very controversial
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: points of view that he expressed with regular frequency. I
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: don't think anyone ever made a big fuss about Charlie
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: Kirk basically being inside of the White House on a
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: weekly basis, right? The analog here is not Nick Fuentes.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: The analog, the closer analog would be something along the
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: lines of Charlie Kirk. And yet, obviously, because of my
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: position being on the left, Because of my advocacy for
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: insurgent candidacies, because of the grassroots movement that we're building
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: on our side, I think a lot of people in
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: power are frustrated. And that's the reason why this has continued.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: One last follow-up on this point, because look, it's a
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: fair comparison. Charlie Kirk was certainly in the White House.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: He was an instrumental part of the campaign. you're saying
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: kind of looking at the media asymmetry. I would say
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: it would be entirely fair to look at the things
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that Charlie had said and then to ask Republicans about it.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: And so for yourself, I guess, you know, what I'm
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: looking at is, you know, you kind of have a
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: duality here, like it's an aw shucks, I'm just a streamer.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: But you did go out and canvas and campaign for
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Francesca Hong. You did go out and campaign for Abdul El-Sayed.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: You have turned, you know, your community into into one
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: which is explicitly political. You are wearing a DSA hat
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: right now. I don't think it's even deniable that you
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: are a leader in a large, you know, in a
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: growing faction within the Democratic Party. So, you know, how
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: are you, you know, squaring this genuine leadership role, which
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I don't even think you're going to deny here, with
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: then the political focus that attenuates that? Because, yes, Charlie, well,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I would say he actually did get quite a bit
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: of media criticism, maybe not necessarily to the liking that
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: you want. Laura Loomer's CNN just did a segment yesterday
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: about Trump and Laura Loomer's own connections. In fact, it
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: was about you and it was using that juxtaposition and
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: about power. So if you are going to be the
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: political leader, which it seems you want to be and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: to use your audience to be, then doesn't this simply
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: come with the territory of having to then answer and
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the campaigns themselves for the many of the things that
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: you have said on your platform?
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: No, it does. I totally understand that. My criticism is twofold. One,
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: we're never discussing the actual ideas that I'm pushing for.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: we're discussing the most negatively framed clips, oftentimes out of context,
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: oftentimes entirely antagonistic to my worldview, right? Like, because the
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: last media frenzy came, the last media frenzy came about
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: because I said something that virtually every single person from
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: Dana Bash to Hannah Arendt has said, right? Ezra Klein
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: has said, the idea that Israel is making Jews in
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: America less safe And the connective tissue there, of course,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: is the false conflation between Zionism and Judaism. I obviously
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: oppose this. I'm an anti-Zionist. And that turned into a
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: defamatory media cycle where virtually every single major politician in
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: my party, in the Democratic Party, came out with condemnations.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: Sometimes those condemnations... were, ironically enough, saying exactly the same
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: thing I was saying. The idea that Jews should be
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: held responsible for the crimes of Israel is ridiculous, is dangerous,
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: is violent. I was like, yeah, that's what I was saying.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: You're yelling at me over something that we agree on, seemingly.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: And my frustration is, I'm a media figure. I'm a
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: media platform. I'm almost a one-person media platform. I'm endlessly accessible.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: And yet, real discourse is not taking place. Real discourse
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: is not taking place, and I feel like it's unproductive,
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: and I feel like we are doing a disservice to
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: the masses. And at a time when the Fourth of
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: States is more important than ever before, when fascism is
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: growing in this country, when there is an unbelievable, unprecedented
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: level of corruption, incompetence, the highest office, I feel like
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: there is a real crisis of credibility in mainstream news,
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: and this is part of the reason why people actually
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: have found themselves seeking out independent outlets. Now, this is,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: of course, beneficial for people like yourselves, people like myself
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: as well. We're in the independent side, and we've actually
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: grown quite a bit, and we've been able to develop
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: quite a bit of credibility with the masses due to
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: our coverage, due to our refusal to abide by certain
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: corporate media conversations that are not necessarily as impactful or
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: as interesting to the masses at all. Our coverage on
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: issues such as Israel, I think is also another major reason.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: No question.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: They're dropping the ball. And I don't want them to
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: drop the ball. A lot of people think I'm a
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: hater of mainstream media. I'm on the independent media side. No,
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: I rely on it heavily. I rely on good reporting
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: and good journalism heavily. I have great friends that work
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: as investigative reporters in a lot of these outlets. I
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: lean into their work all the time. I would not
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: be able to do what I'm doing effectively if it
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: wasn't for good journalism. And I'm terrified of the prospect
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: of mainstream outlets completely dropping that That important role that
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: they play in defending democracy at a time when democracy
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: is in crisis. So that's my frustration. Overall, we're not
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: having a real conversation about the issues. We're simply having
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: a drama cycle. It's drama cycle after drama cycle, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: it's unbelievably unproductive. And it's poisonous for discourse overall.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to you more about the Democratic
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: side of this, because there have been all kinds of Democrats,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: John Ossoff being one of the recent disappointing ones to
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: come out. And yes, I condemn Hasan Piker, an effort
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: to have a congressional resolution officially condemning you, all of
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: these sorts of things. And there's been a question over
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: whether establishment Democrats would rather see Abdul El-Sayed, obviously linked
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: with you, lose, and whether they would prefer that outcome
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: than having someone who is so closely affiliated with the
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: left be victorious in a swing state. Bernie was asked
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: about this yesterday. Let me go ahead and play his
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: reaction and then get you to react to that on
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: the other side.
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: But from what you've seen over the past few days,
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: do these Democrats want to see El-Sayed lose? Do you
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: think there's Democrats that want to see that happen?
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's a funny thing. The answer is
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: there are some who may. I think most do not.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Most understand is we may not like El-Sayed. We may
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: not like Angie Nixon. But you know what? If we
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: win Michigan and if by some miracle we win Florida,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: you know what? We're going to control the U.S. Senate.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: And we would like very much to control the U.S. Senate.
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: So in terms of like the DSA candidates heading to
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: Congress potentially next year, Like, what would your advice be
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: to them?
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: My advice would be is to ignore dumb remarks like Mr.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: Moskowitz.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: And I hope that he does understand that his views,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: and I don't want to speak beyond what I know here,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: but I assume he is very pro-Israeli government, is my impression,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: that that is a tiny minority of where the Democrats are.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I love that he doesn't know too much about Jared Moskowitz.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I'd like to live in that world, actually. But your
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: thoughts on this question of how many establishment Democrats would
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: actually prefer to see Abdul lose, even if it means
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: that Republicans keep control of the Senate?
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: I think there is a decent number. Many of them
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: have have revealed their actual position. They go on Fox
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: News all the time, right, whether they be consultants or
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: even sitting elected representatives like Josh Gottheimer and numerous others.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: It's very clear to me that they would rather throw
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: the Abdul El-Sayed race. Jonathan Chait recently came out and
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: openly admitted this as well off of something that David
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: Sirota was saying in Politico, where David Sirota admitted, like,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: if Democrats had an opportunity to throw the Michigan Senate race,
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: but then win the majority elsewhere, they would take it 100%
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: of the time. And Jonathan Shade said, yes, absolutely. Why
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: wouldn't we do that? And that blows my mind. So what,
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: 52 Democrats is somehow worse than 51 Democrats, especially at
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: a time when you have someone like John Fetterman, that
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: is an ultimate spoiler. I mean, it's ridiculous to openly
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: admit that. And I think it's obvious to me that
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: these guys are unbelievably out of touch, right? They're out
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: of touch and out of step with the needs of
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: the masses and They do not talk to regular folk.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: They have no understanding of how regular Americans see Israel
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: at this point. They're in a beltway bubble and they
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: cannot contend with the reality out there. And that's part
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: of the reason why they're flailing and burning the remainder
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: of their credibility at a time when it's really important
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: for mainstream media to maintain some level of credibility so
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: they can disseminate information when, you know, Obviously, Twitter is
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: is not exactly the best town hall for for disseminating
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: real and truthful and accurate reporting. I mean, it's it's ridiculous.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: There's there's insane amounts of of right wing commentary, right
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: wing sentiment, neo-Nazi sentiment flying on that platform. We should
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: stop using Twitter as a news desk editor. I say
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: this is a power user. I'm still, you know, I
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: feel constantly tweeting myself. I just tweeted right before we
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: got on. But but I don't think that we should
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: be using as a news desk editor. And I don't
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: think that mainstream outlets should be using Fox News as
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: a news desk editor. Yeah, I think that's poisonous to
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: discourse overall.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: See, I think you're focusing heavily on mainstream and you're
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: totally agree. However, I don't think it's fair to say
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: it's entirely because of mainstream news coverage that John Ossoff
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you know, made the comments that he made. Ossoff, I
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: believe by your own admission, is a very talented politician.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: I know you've praised him before on your platform. He
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: came out from a calculated political perspective with a prepared
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: statement to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution because he thought it would
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: be beneficial to disavow you. You also had the recent
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: situation with Abdul El-Sayed, where El-Sayed said, nobody speaks for
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: my campaign after that whole fracas with Jeremy Moss and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: the Jewish, you know, coalition of Democrats in the state
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: of Michigan. That's not a mainstream problem. It's clear that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: they found you enough of a liability to have to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: moderately distance. So what and how do you square that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: with politicians how you already admire?
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, It's pretty obvious what's going on there. John
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: Ossoff is, John Ossoff is Jewish. And yet time after time.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: And I remember, I also am a pundit myself. I'm
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: a commentator. So I'm covering this stuff in real time
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: without being heavily involved in it.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: And I've seen it over and over again. Anytime John
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: Ossoff has been critical about sending weapons to Israel, there
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: is a coalition of Jewish advocacy organizations in Atlanta, in Georgia,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: broadly that, that are masquerading as Jewish advocacy organizations, but
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: are simply Israel advocacy organizations that will come out, take
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: out ads in newspapers and hound him. That was actually
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: part of the reason why I thought he was a
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: dark horse pick that he could be a potentially very
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: interesting candidate for 2028 because he he had this ability
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: to read the room and and moderate his perspective, or
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: at least try to find a reasonable perspective given what
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: his constituency wanted. But yeah, this was a mistake for my,
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: for my estimation, but it was one that, that he
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: was forced into because AJC and numerous other outlets were
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: constantly pressing him. And this didn't start last week. This
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: didn't start with the last media cycle. It actually started
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: a while ago when I said John Ossoff was actually
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: my dark horse pick. Reporters would come up to him
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: and demand that he disavow me ahead of time. Third way,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: sent him a questionnaire all the way back, I believe,
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: in May, asking if he would disavow me.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Wait, they sent him a Hassan Taiker questionnaire?
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: We have not collaborated with one another?
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Specifically? They sent him a Hassan Taiker questionnaire? Oh, my God.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he doesn't have to answer. That's what I'm
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: getting at. I agree, but he doesn't have to answer.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Politicians know how to tell reporters to fuck off all
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: the time, including John Ossoff. No, but he did answer.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what I'm getting at, is that this
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: seems to be the central tension of you want to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: be a leader, you want to be a streamer. It
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: seems that the streaming seems detrimental to being the leading.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: And so I'm curious how you're working through this because
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: it seems to be a new phase of your career, right?
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: It's one thing to fuck around on Twitch and just
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: react to some crazy stuff. It's another. You're fundraising. You're
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: out there campaigning. You're going door to door. That is
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: a different realm. And it does seem as if there's
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit of incompatibility, and I'm curious how you're
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: thinking about that.
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the biggest incompatibility actually stems from the
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: format that I'm on. Um, it's, you know, I speak
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: for eight hours a day on hotly debated issues. Uh,
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: anyone and everyone can tune in anonymously and, and in
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: real time, um, send comments back. Um, there's also a
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: lot of, of parasocial people out there. It's, this is
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: a tough conversation to broach for, for a lot of boomers,
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: but there are a inflamed and become obsessive, like hyper
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: fixate on me, both positively and negatively. And some of
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: those negative hyper fixators will then spend every waking moment
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: on Twitter trying to kickstart the next outrage cycle. This
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: was before mainstream media started getting involved more heavily on
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: the fun. This is something that I've had to deal
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: with for the past decade or so. It's just impossible
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: to be a political commentator in this format without Having
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: people clip you out of context. So I just see
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: it as as a unfortunate byproduct of doing this job.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: I see it in the same vein as, you know,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: getting swatted and getting stalked and harassed.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sucks.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: It shouldn't happen, but it does.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: And.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: And you also wouldn't have to.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: Take the L on that. Now, having said that.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say you also wouldn't have
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the position that you have as a leader if you
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: didn't do what you do. Like that's what enables you
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: to marshal your community to make calls and go canvas
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: and fundraise for these candidates.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a really great organizing vehicle,
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: especially if someone is stubborn enough to push through the negativity.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: And if someone is resilient enough, someone has a moral
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: compass and and they abide by that over anything else,
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: you can get on the other side of that with
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: a force that you can deploy towards specific policy positions
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: that the overwhelming majority of Americans actually demand, and yet
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: politicians do not represent at all for some weird reason.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: But I think that's ultimately the reason why I'm getting
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: attacked all the time. Because it's not just about Israel, obviously,
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: it's about corporate lobby, corporate lobbyists and their influence in Washington, D.C.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: as well. There's got to be a reason as to
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: why so many politicians all around the country place the
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: interest of corporate profits over the interest of the masses.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: And someone has to be a platform for the anxiety
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: and the enmity and the anger that people feel. And
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: I am that platform. I am that megaphone. So, yes,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: I have a lot of very powerful enemies in the
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: process from Elon Musk to even the president has now
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: mentioned me. But I'm going to keep doing what I'm
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: doing because someone has to be out there fighting back.
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: Someone has to be out there marshalling the forces and
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: and galvanizing the masses and making sure that we make
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: these necessary changes, because I feel like this crisis is
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: far too large to avoid.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: But in your analysis, you're assuming you're not positive. Has
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: this made you question whether you're.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: And, yeah, I think DSA probably feels that way as well. Many,
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: many members in my community and many members overall, many
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Americans overall, whether they have a positive feeling with me,
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: a positive feeling of me or a negative one, doesn't
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: matter if we were to implement some of the policies
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: that we're advocating for. that we're going to consistently continue
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: pushing for, whether it be Medicare for all or an
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: arms embargo on Israel. I'm fairly certain that this would
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: have positive reverberations for all Americans, maybe even people all
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: around the world. If we were to baby scale back
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: on our endless militarism, they don't have to like me.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: They can they can just get out of the way.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the interesting thing is, if you look at
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: the Democratic primaries in particular, I don't think there's there's
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: no doubt that you were in that positive. If you
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: look at they tried to make you a major issue
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: in the Zoran versus Cuomo fight, completely failed. They tried
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: to make you a major issue in the Abdul versus
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Haley Stevens fight. And not only that fail. I mean,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: you can look at Abdul's polls. after you were made
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: this sort of wedge issue in the Democratic primary, is
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: when he takes off, Mallory McMorrow takes the other side
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: of that. She ultimately has to drop out, and he's able.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: To secure a victory.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: So do you think that in the general election, do
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: you think Republicans feel that this is working for them?
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Do you think that establishment Democrats feel that this is
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: working for them? And what would your advice be to
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: candidates like, you know, the John Ossoffs of the world?
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: If he could go back and do it over again,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: how should they handle questions about you?
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: I think it's the reason why people are attacking me
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: is because it has failed so far.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: It's because we are succeeding, right?
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: When you go back to 2010, the Tea Party movement
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: was backed by the Koch brothers. It was astroturfed entirely.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: And they only got four new members elected. Two open seats,
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: two incumbents were flipped in the Republican Party. We've had
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: more than 10 at this point all around the country.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: And it's entirely grassroots funded. It's entirely backed by the people.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: And in some of these races, like Abdul's, there's also
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: $ 74 million in outside expenditures coming in and attacking him.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, he was outspent 12 to 1, something along
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: those lines. And there are also races that I'm not
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: involved in where candidates that are left populist are outperforming expectations.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Peggy Flanagan is a great example of this. In Minnesota,
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: she was outspent, I believe, six to one.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: Similar story with Angie Nixon in the in the primaries
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: as well. So this isn't just about me. I'm just
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: the person that is is the easiest to disparage as
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: a movement leader.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: And I'm very stubborn, so I'll push through it regardless.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: It doesn't feel great. But it doesn't really matter. But
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: that is the reason there's a reason why they're attacking me.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: It's not because all of a sudden, I don't know,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: a congressperson in Las Vegas found out about who I
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: was and and started watching some clips and got really angry.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's the reason. I mean, someone is
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: giving them notes on what to say. There's no there's
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: no world where someone like Debbie Stabenow in Michigan knows
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: who I am. Right. Someone told her, like, you have
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: to speak on this. She's like a bad guy. Here
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: are some of the quotes that he's made. You have
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: to go out and condemn this guy. And Debbie comes
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: out and says, this guy is a vicious anti-Semite. We
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: got to deal with them.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Do you think the Democrats handle these outrage cycles different
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: than Republicans do? Like, do you think there's something for
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Democratic candidates to learn from this sort of fuck you
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: energy of Republicans?
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Yes. Jump on down.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: Yes, they need to lean into their base. They need
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: to lean into the anger that their base is representing
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: right now. Democrats need to stop playing ball with cynical actors, okay?
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: I don't do it. I wish they wouldn't do it either.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: It's very frustrating to watch Democrats play politics at a
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: time when the rules have changed. We live in the
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: post-Trump universe, and I think there are a lot of
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: people who still want to Go back to a time
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: when politicians could have reasonable discussion on television and people
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: valued the truth. It's like, I value the truth. You
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: should value the truth. You should always say the truth.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: But you also don't have to be so bashful.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be so scared. You don't have
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to be so meek.
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: You don't have to take your opposition's cynical framing. Republicans
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: know that that is a weakness. They have identified it,
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: and they successfully weaponize it against the Democrats all the time.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: This media cycle could have been handled very differently. Democrats
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: could have come out from the start and been like,
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: we're talking about a random Twitch streamer. He campaigned with
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Abdullah Saeed. He was a surrogate for Abdullah Saeed.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: OK, look at your own side. Donald Trump is currently
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: the president. You're talking you're telling me. that this Assam
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: Piker guy, we are supposed to hold him, a podcast
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: or a Twitch streamer, to a higher standard than the
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: president of the United States of America, who isn't just
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: saying unhinged things. I mean, he literally said he was
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: going to do a genocide in Iran a couple months ago, right?
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: But he's also doing horrible things. He's doing unlimited amounts
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: of violence. He's destroying the American economy. He's destroying the
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: global economy. And we're supposed to sit here and constantly complain?
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: about a Twitch streamer, this is ridiculous. It's preposterous. If
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Democrats came out in unison and dealt with the issue
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: with sincerity and with a little bit more anger, the
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: same anger that their base feels, I think this story
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: would have been packed up easily. They would have been
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: able to deflect this barrage of Republican attacks. And then
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: from that point on, The media could have me on
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: to ask me to interrogate and examine my worldview.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Why is that not happening? I mean, Jake Tapper had
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Max Miller on.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: Max Miller allegedly abused his wife and his two-year-old daughter, allegedly, right?
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: There's a court proceeding that took place. This is the
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: daughter of the Ohio Senator Bernie Marino. Jake Tapper had
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: him on the show to interrogate him. Republicans are not
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: even talking about him right now. And that's partially because
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Democrats are too busy yelling about me. So it's not
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: even just about like the Laura Loomers of the world,
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: which I don't even think is an apt comparison. If
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: I spoke about Jewish people in the way that Laura
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Loomer speaks about black people or Muslim people, I'd be shot.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I'd go to prison, I think. And I don't feel
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: that way.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: I don't. I feel like this is she she represents
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: some of the most odious views that that we're desperately
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: trying to move on from the desperately trying to run
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: away from desperately trying to disavow.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: And yet.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: She gets to operate as a as a attack.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Dog for the Republican Party with regular frequency, partially because
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: Democrats are constantly eating the bait and they're constantly worried
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: about whatever the Republicans want them to be worried about.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: We have to stop apologizing to the Republicans. We have
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: to stop leaning in to the cynical ways in which
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: the Republicans choose to rip apart the base. We have
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: to unite. and become the anti-Trump coalition force that is
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: necessary to fight back against Trumpism, to fight back against fascism,
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: and to preserve what remains of American theoretical democracy. Time
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: is running out, and I really wish that establishment Democrats
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: were smarter about this.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: In their mind, their belief is that an alliance and
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: an elevation of someone like yourself with the past quote
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: of America deserved 9-11. I know you've apologized for it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: You did say it. I think you even said at
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: the time, should I say it? Something like that.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: I said, fuck it, I'm saying it.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right. And so, you know, you're a young guy.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: You knew it was bad. You apologized for it, I believe,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: the next day on Cenk's show. The question then is
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: they believe that to achieve the coalition... is that to
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: have someone who has said these things, someone who was
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: part of, quote, woke one, even though I know you've
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: kind of moved on from that, or at least in
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: our last discussion, you certainly add that this would be
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: electorally detrimental to the independent voter. And, you know, what
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: you've just said is that, oh, we need to give
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: to the Democratic base. But there are positions, things, not
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: even just you said, things of Abdul have said that
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: he's had to walk away from which could be big
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: problems for him coming into the midterm election. So how
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: do you square that? If you do have the, let's
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: say a union guy, he voted for Trump, he's pissed
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: off about prices, but he's not so down, let's say
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: with woke one, defund the police, America deserved 9-11. What's
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: your role in that if you prevent him necessarily from
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: voting for Abdul El-Sayed? Yeah.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: So first of all, you know, I'm not going to
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: be able to, to captivate the attention of every single person.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Like that. I know that already. I know that I'm
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: not appealing to like a 75 year old retiree, small
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: business owner, finance executive. They're, they're probably not going to
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: be super fans of mine.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: I'm here for the under 45 young men in particular
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: who never really see responsive politics. They've developed too much apathy.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: They've gone out. They've protested. They maybe even voted for
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: a couple of Democrats that they didn't really like. They
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: plugged their nose and they did it because they believe
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: in harm reduction. And now they're sick and tired of it, right?
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: Now they're looking for an alternative. They're looking for someone
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: who's actually going to fight back. actually going to represent
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: their needs, right? So that's my goal. As far as
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: how frustrating this could be to hold together a larger coalition,
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: we were, again, taking for granted a lot of these
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: other voters, a lot of these people that I'm bringing
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: on to not only participate in their civic duty, but
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: also participate in a more meaningful matter in getting others
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: to come out and vote. On the other side, of course,
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: politics are about addition, not subtraction, right? So I'm totally
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: on board with bringing on people who are independents, people
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: who have different opinions than me into this broad coalition.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: It's those on the other side. It's those on the right,
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: the right wing of the Democratic Party, the right wing
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: in the consulting class that actually oppose our involvement in
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: any way, shape or form. that's the real issue. I
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: want to build a big tent. They don't. I understand
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: that we have to organize the masses to make sure
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: that we have a strong enough base of support to
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: get this agenda done. I believe in democracy. They do not.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: They don't want to hear from the masses. They don't
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: want to hear about their discontent. They just want everybody
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: to shut up and vote for the Democrats. And They're
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: very frustrated that now there is a massive platform like
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: yours as well that actually expresses this discontent with regular
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: frequency and is growing and and is making up for
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: the limited credibility that mainstream media has at this moment.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Well, and the real problem for them, too, is that
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: your views now are much more aligned with the 70
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: year old retiree. in the Democratic Party base than the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Democratic establishment is at this point. And so, you know,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: that's why you pose a particular threat to them. My
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: last question for you, Hasan, is just, you know, do
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: you have any other plans in terms of tactics to
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: fight back? Are you pursuing a defamation lawsuit against Scott Jennings,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: for example? What are your thoughts on that?
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm continuing along with that. And we'll see. We'll
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: see where this goes, because I feel like it has gotten...
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: it's gotten completely out of control. I think someone has
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: to like, someone has to fight back. Someone has to
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: fight back because I just, we can't go on like this.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: We have no consensus reality. We have no consensus reality.
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: I get so frustrated about this. I, I spent a
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: good deal of my, my time every day trying to
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: identify misinformation and disinformation that runs among on, on the
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: internet and and, and try to get people to, to
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: understand what's exact, what's actually going on. And it's so
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: frustrating to see the, the way that people traffic in
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: defamation and slander and smears. And I think it's partially
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: because no one's really pushing back. No one's really fighting
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: back in a different timeline. I think the way this
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: would work is you'd get punished for it, right? If
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: you were actively, uh, getting paid to slander people. Mainstream
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: outlets would probably say, all right, we're going to We're
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: going to make sure that you either recalibrate your commentary
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: or you're done.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: You're out.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: And yet Scott Jennings, I would say, goes on CNN
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: every night specifically for that purpose. So we can be
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: an attack dog for Donald Trump so we can audition
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: to be the White House press secretary.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: And and this is this weird, mutually beneficial relationship for
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: for CNN executives who who want to win favor with
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: the Ellison's and CNN executives. top anchors and top producers
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: who want to make sure that they don't get fired
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: in the Ellison purchase.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: So they're they're playing that role. But I think in
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: the process of playing that role, they are destroying what
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: remains of the credibility of CNN as an institution. People
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: already people on the right and many independents already despise CNN.
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: And now they're going to burn their credibility with a
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: lot of liberals as well. And I don't know if
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: it's worth it. I don't want to live in a
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: world where there's no reliability in mainstream outlets. Unfortunately, we
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: live in that world right now for a bunch of
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: different issues, right? When it comes to American foreign policy,
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: I don't expect any of these major outlets, these legacy
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: publishers to actually do serious investigative reporting. Every now and
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: then they'll do it in an effort to regain some
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: of that credibility, right? There'll be like one article or
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: two investigative reports that come out maybe months after the fact.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: And we'll say, wow, that's interesting. I can't believe New
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: York Times reported on this finally. But but I wish
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: that they were there. I wish that they were there
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: from the start because this is a real crisis.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Well, and the thing is, you as a streamer, you
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: give them a lot of commentary to work with. But
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: the truth of the matter is, what they did to you,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: they could do to anyone. They could take, I mean,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: the same sentiment you expressed about Jewish Americans, something Sagar
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: and I have both expressed many times on this show
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: and is thoroughly, should be thoroughly uncontroversial, would be easy
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: enough to clip something out of context, put it out
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: there in the world and completely mischaracterize what any public
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: commentator says.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Did it to Mark Ruffalo?
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: They did the Mark Ruffalo at the same time they
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: were doing it to me. And they did it to Abdul.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: The hurt people hurt people comment. If you watch the
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: four minute video that he put out, because the first
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: day of the synagogue attack, Abdul comes out with a statement,
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: just straightforward condemnation, completely unacceptable because it is right. It's
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: completely unacceptable. People should never have to fear of a,
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: of an attack when they're in a place of worship.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Like that's ridiculous, right?
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: So he comes out with the condemnation and then the
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: next day he explains the cycle of violence. He explains
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: the cycle of violence and in the process of explaining
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: the cycle of violence and how, you know, uh, violent incidents, uh,
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: cause violent and unacceptable, completely unacceptable, uh, violent retaliation against,
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: you know, civilians against, uh, people who, uh, didn't participate
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: in this in any meaningful manner whatsoever. And, and that
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: the person who did this was a heinous person was
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: a small person.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Um, all this stuff.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: He does this like four minute video and they just
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: nailed down the hurt people, hurt people quote to make
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: it seem like Abdul was just like disparaging the concerns of,
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: of Jewish folk.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: He did apologize though.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Sometimes you have to, sometimes you literally cave to the mob.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: It's just, it sucks, but it's the truth. You, you,
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: when you're running for office, sometimes you're just going to
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: have to say, look, I didn't intend for this to
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: turn into a massive problem. I didn't intend for you
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: to misunderstand my position. I shouldn't have said anything. And
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: that's that's what he did. And I hope that people
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: see that as humility and grace and understand that he's
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: not this like scary Islamist.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Jihadist guy that he's being presented as. That doesn't fit
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: with your fighting energy earlier. This is just kind of,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: you know, because to me, it seems like, you know, look, Abdul-
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: frequently just deletes stuff and pretends that he never said it.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: He outright lies about what he said about defund the police.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: He just deletes stuff that he said about transgenderism and kids,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: decides not to talk about it, talk about adult circumcision.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: In this case, he felt like he had to apologize.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just read it a little differently.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: It's like it's pretty clear that he did think that
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: He screwed up, even though I agree with you necessarily
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: on the sentiment.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: Do you disagree with the sentiment, though?
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. Listen, I'm not one of those pro-cancel
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: culture freaks. I just look at his behavior and I'm like, okay,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: so he'll lie about, I didn't say defund the police.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: He'll lie about one of his previous past positions on transgender,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: you know, circumcision, conflated to circumcision. But on this one,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I have to apologize. I'm like, I
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it seems like he feels, especially
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: considering what happened with this Jeremy Moss situation, And now
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: with this, and then yesterday he's speaking at some Jewish
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Democrats event, and he's doing his absolute best to make
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: sure he's like, I'm here, I love you all, et cetera.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: It seems to him, for him having said screw you
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: to many other attacks in the past, he seems to
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: believe that this is a problem. That's all I'm saying.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: That's part of the reason in this interview I'm like,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I'm curious in that assessment of his behavior. He is
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: behaving not as if this is like a humility exercise,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: but as in this is an actual electoral problem for
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: me in this race.
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know to what degree it's a it's
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: a serious problem. I think we're just reading the tea
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: leaves at this point. Yeah, but I mean, that's just politics.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: That's just politics. You got to you got to win
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: over as broad a coalition as possible. Um, there's a
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: real crisis here. If we allow someone like Mike Rogers to,
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: to come into office, uh, who is, is going to
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: be a rubber stamp on Trump's agenda. Someone who has
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: actually been an advocate for mass surveillance, uh, uh, since, uh,
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: since the post nine 11, uh, days. someone who is
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: an advocate for going to war, someone who was an
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: advocate for going to war with Iran, and now we're
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: in that war with Iran. These are people who are
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: gonna try to run away from much more nefarious positions
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: than people who demonstrate the basic American mentality, which is,
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: I think medical decisions should be kept between a patient
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: and a doctor, because that's what the transgender issue is
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: all about at the end of the day. Um, I
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: don't really, uh, I don't really care about what people
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: have said in the past as far as like how
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: woke they were. Um, and you said I was a
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: trafficker in woke 1.0, right? I mean, I got yelled
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: at quite a bit from people who, uh, were, were
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: not even to my left necessarily, but people who presented
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: themselves as to my left at the time, because I
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: would constantly say, I'm not saying Latin X, I'm not
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: doing all this and that. I didn't make a big
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: deal about it though. And I didn't like, you know,
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: humiliate people for, for trying to be as accommodating as possible.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: But I understood that there was some social excesses that
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: were taking place. But at the end of the day,
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: I think We have a limited amount of time on
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: God's green earth. I'm not going to spend it yelling
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: at people who wanted to be as accommodating as possible
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: to others and definitely got a little feverish at times,
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: especially when on the other side, there are people who
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: are just as hysterical, but also immoral because let's be real.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: I'm a leftist. I believe that this position is broadly
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: the morally correct position. the morally correct side of the
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: political spectrum, the political ideology, even if they're being annoying.
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: I can engage in comradely discussions and say, hey, maybe
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: don't present yourself this way. I think this is not
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: very helpful for our cause. I don't think you're winning
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: a lot of people over to our side. And those
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: are productive moments of discourse on our side. It's an
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: internal discussion. But I don't think we should be spending
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: a great deal of time. If we're leftist, we should
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: be spending a great deal of time constantly talking about
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: how like people wanted to people wanted to restructure the
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: police budgets in this country that have expanded endlessly. and
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: have militarized heavily and are not producing the results they're
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: supposed to, even though crime is actually down. So I
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: guess to a certain degree, they are producing some results.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: So I can't really hate on that right now. But
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: having said that, my position on this is this, okay?
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: My position on policing, for example, is do your job.
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: There's three jobs in this country, three professions in this
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: country where you get rewarded for failure. It's policing, it's CEOs,
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: and it's politicians. They fail upwards all the time. They're
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: allowed to fail. Your car gets stolen. You call up
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: the cops. You're like, can you please help me with this?
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: And they look at you like you've asked them the
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: most unacceptable thing of all time. I'm like, come on, man.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: This is your job. That's what I want. I want
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: cops to do their jobs. Some of them are doing
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: their jobs.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Who releases the guy who steals the car, though? It's
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: an interesting question, right? Who released the guy who stole
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: the car?
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: Is that what you said?
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I was like, how did it exactly get
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: to the point where the guy's on the street? And
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: maybe he's been released on no cash bail, let's say,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: for example. Look, we don't have nearly enough time to
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: debate the trans and police issue. No, I know, I know.
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: This is the fun part where you and I, you know,
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: don't even get me started about marijuana, even though I
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: didn't even smoke weed.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Well, that was going to be my parting shot, is
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to remind you that when you were canvassing,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: you went across the state of Wisconsin. Oh, I know
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: you got mad at that. And you made a great pitch.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: You said, Francesca Hong's gonna legalize weed. And so I
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: watched with great amusement as she lost in that primary.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: after you promised these people that she was going to
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: legalize weed. And so maybe it's not the electoral benefit
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: that you may have thought, Mr. Piker, to go around
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: and promise.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: I think that lady was wearing a weed t-shirt and
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: she really liked it.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: So it certainly worked. You just had to do it.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: You had to go around there. And I messaged you
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: and said, you just had to throw the weed thing
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: in there. And so I just wanted to remind you
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: that it didn't work. And so maybe you all.
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, she lost because of that. She lost because
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: of Thanksgiving, and she lost because of her pro-weed position.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm out here spinning that narrative.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: All right, Hasan, thank you so much for getting up
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: early for us.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I know you have to go, so thank you very much.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's our pleasure. Thank
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: you guys for watching. As you can assume, the show
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: is already late, so sorry. It's been a long interview,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: but we wanted to make sure... We did it justice.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: There'll be a great show for everybody tomorrow. Ryan and
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Emily AMA, tune in for that.