Latest / Babes, how did you get here / The REALITY of Being a Jamaican Foreigner in South Africa: Privilege, Prejudice & Finding Home

Transcript

The REALITY of Being a Jamaican Foreigner in South Africa: Privilege, Prejudice & Finding Home · Babes, how did you get here

0:00
I'm gonna come out for the play, I'm gonna lie.
0:02
Actually, go for the girl and kiss the girl.
0:04
Did you literally?
0:06
Were you that happy to get it?
0:07
In my mind, I think I did it.
0:11
Maybe, but I was happy, man.
0:13
I was happy to be.
0:14
What was your first impression?
0:17
Of Africa, all right.
0:18
I've always been interested in Africa.
0:21
So coming here, you know, it felt like home?
0:26
Really?
0:27
Yeah, it felt like home.
0:28
I don't know.
0:29
It's just, that's a feeling I got.
0:31
And I've been to many other places,
0:34
but here, I gave it a feeling.
0:37
Been to all the African countries
0:38
and I still got to get that same feeling.
0:41
I remember when I just came here,
0:44
I went on a date with this guy, right?
0:47
And she went on a rant about black people.
0:50
Okay.
0:51
Right?
0:52
So I'm sitting there and I'm like,
0:54
this girl know I'm black.
0:57
Right?
0:58
And so I asked her, I'm saying,
1:00
you know I'm black, right?
1:01
And she said, yeah, but you're different.
1:04
And I'm saying, how old?
1:07
And she said, you're a foreigner.
1:09
Okay.
1:09
I'm saying, okay.
1:11
So because I'm a black foreigner, I'm different.
1:15
You know what I'm saying, all right, cool.
1:16
Anyway.
1:17
What is an experience that happened to you
1:19
since you've been here,
1:21
that you would never seen coming?
1:23
Getting arrested.
1:25
Getting arrested.
1:27
I was going to jail.
1:28
Did you have to actually go to jail?
1:29
Yeah.
1:31
What happened?
1:32
As you said, this is fake.
1:35
I just said, you're gonna get arrested.
1:38
And I said, come on man.
1:40
And I went to the prison, the toilet jail.
1:44
I'm down the open the cell.
1:45
I said, go.
1:47
And like 17 people on the floor lay down.
1:52
Yo, I'm serious.
1:56
So I'm serious, you know what I mean?
1:58
And so when I went in, I remember the morning,
2:00
the next morning, I went outside,
2:03
I found a little corner and I cried.
2:05
I was there for a week.
2:07
You were in jail for a week?
2:08
I was there for a week until I got bail.
2:11
So yeah, I'm not in my wildest dream.
2:15
I would say I would ever admit to jail.
2:18
I'm in prison.
2:19
Since COVID, it seems like everyone is thinking
2:21
about the life that they actually want to live.
2:24
And many are considering moving abroad.
2:26
I am April Jackson and I'm currently traveling the world
2:29
speaking to people who have done just that.
2:32
They've left everything behind for a life elsewhere.
2:35
Marlon Cotrell is a Jamaican-born creative
2:38
whose life took an unexpected turn
2:40
after a trip to South Africa to walk
2:41
in Africa fashion week.
2:43
He now lives here in Cape Town
2:45
and is the front man to South Africa's
2:47
biggest reggae band, the rudimentals.
2:50
He's an international model whose face has been
2:52
on billboards around the world.
2:54
He's a mentor, a father, an aspiring entrepreneur.
2:58
And although I'm always excited to speak to my people,
3:01
I have to ask, babes, how did you get here?
3:04
Sui, me sui, me no.
3:06
People believe, you know.
3:08
No, no.
3:09
One morning, we just get up, you know,
3:11
drive, go to Portland and then just
3:13
and then go fast, swim on just.
3:15
You reach.
3:15
In America, you know.
3:18
As I said, I came for Africa fashion week.
3:21
Yeah.
3:22
And that was in Johannesburg.
3:23
Yeah.
3:24
OK.
3:25
And this was 2011.
3:28
2011.
3:29
Was that your first trip to the continent?
3:31
Yeah, man.
3:32
When we come out for the play in Manalai,
3:34
we actually go upon a girl and kiss the girl.
3:37
Did you literally?
3:38
Were you that happy to be here?
3:39
In my mind, I think I did it.
3:43
Maybe.
3:44
But I was happy, man.
3:45
I was happy to be here.
3:46
What was your first impression?
3:49
Of Africa, all right.
3:50
I've always been interested in Africa.
3:54
So when I was in Jamaica, living in Jamaica,
3:56
I could normally study the map of Africa.
3:58
So I could go on them up, just point to our country
4:01
and tell you where exactly it is, you know what I mean?
4:04
Without name, being there.
4:05
My geography is terrible, so I could be there.
4:07
Yeah, so I used to do that and so coming here, you know,
4:11
it felt like home.
4:13
Really?
4:14
Yeah, it felt like home.
4:16
I don't know.
4:17
It's just, that's a feeling of that.
4:19
And I've been to many other places.
4:22
But here, give me that feeling.
4:25
Specifically South Africa.
4:27
I mean, it was first place in Africa, here.
4:29
Sure.
4:30
Yana San, so yeah.
4:31
But I've been to all the African countries
4:33
and I still get that same feeling.
4:36
For some reason, I know.
4:37
It's home, man.
4:38
So when you came to Johannesburg,
4:40
you were here just for presumed be a short time for the show?
4:44
I was here for the show, yeah.
4:45
Which was, I think it lasted for a week.
4:49
And I said, I'm hung around a bit.
4:52
Spent three months in Johannesburg.
4:54
And then my agent in Johannesburg said,
4:58
you know, you can't go down to Cape Town and try it out.
5:00
So I said, all right, cool.
5:02
Came down to Cape Town.
5:04
That the plan was to spend six months in total in South Africa.
5:09
And it's been 15 years.
5:12
OK, I need you to take me back to,
5:15
how did you even get into modeling?
5:17
All right, so in Jamaica, I used to work as a travel agent.
5:21
So since international, the modeling agents are there.
5:25
We used to do their bookings.
5:27
So I use to book the tickets for them.
5:29
And every time, they will come in to collect tickets for models
5:32
and say, man, you shouldn't model this on that.
5:35
And I'm like, no, man.
5:37
Because at the time, I was heavily into music, right?
5:42
I have a studio in Jamaica, music studio with my business
5:46
part in a junior for us, which is Jimmy Cliff.
5:50
Well, what's Jimmy Cliff, are the engineers?
5:53
So he's a toured with him.
5:54
And JOP, I don't know, all of us, that's us.
6:00
OK.
6:01
Yeah, size 10, he passed recently, you know what I mean?
6:05
Merced in P, size 10.
6:06
And so that was a crew, you know?
6:09
Because even at one point, they approached me and I
6:13
do it, Sheldon, to the modeling.
6:16
OK.
6:16
And at that time, it was a no.
6:18
And then fast forward a few years later,
6:21
I was coming from Miami with my girlfriend at the time
6:24
and running to Dwight at the airport.
6:28
And he said, wow, man, come, come, model of us.
6:31
And my girlfriend said, you should do it, man.
6:34
And since then, she started, you know, you should do it.
6:38
So just to shut our up, I did it.
6:41
And yeah, I do not want to do it.
6:45
OK, babe, real talk, tantrums do not look fun.
6:49
But what if I told you that they don't have to take over your
6:51
house?
6:52
In my course, managing tantrums like a CEO, I'll teach you
6:56
the strategies that turn tantrums into opportunities, no
6:59
yelling, no bribes, no screens, and no chaos.
7:03
You will learn how to understand what's really going on
7:06
behind those meltdowns, how to keep
7:07
your cool when they lose theirs and how to raise
7:10
emotionally intelligent children without losing yourself
7:14
in the process.
7:15
Because CEOs don't react to baves, they respond.
7:18
And you can do the same.
7:19
So if you're ready to bring more calm connection and
7:22
confidence to your home, click the link and check out
7:25
managed tantrums like a CEO.
7:27
Why?
7:28
Yeah.
7:29
Because the thing is, it wasn't a passion.
7:33
It's not something that I thought of or wanted to do, you
7:37
know, because for me it was art music.
7:41
So it was music producing, recording, all of that.
7:45
And I did it and it was fun.
7:48
What is the life of a male model?
7:51
I feel like we speak a lot publicly about the female side
7:55
of the modeling industry.
7:56
What is it about the male side of modeling that we might
8:00
not know?
8:02
For when a lot of females look at themselves as models,
8:09
right?
8:10
Our model, this and that.
8:12
For me personally, I do modeling.
8:15
OK.
8:16
Yeah, no, I don't.
8:18
Yeah, I'm not a model.
8:19
I do modeling and most of my friends who do modeling have
8:24
the same mindset.
8:24
OK.
8:25
We just see it as a career job, you know what I mean?
8:30
I make some money and then continue to live life.
8:33
I like that.
8:34
So what was your first international job?
8:37
First international job.
8:41
I've got back in our archives.
8:44
First international job.
8:48
To be honest, I can't remember.
8:49
Really, clearly wasn't that impactful.
8:52
No, the thing is, you know what?
8:54
I remember one day I was at the agency.
8:57
And my book at the time, I was right there standing
9:01
and they got confirmation for a job, a TV commercial for me.
9:05
And, you know, of course, them being excited.
9:07
Hey, Marlon, we just got already booked this.
9:10
And I was like, OK.
9:12
And they looked at me like, that's it.
9:16
And I'm saying, am I supposed to do cartwheels?
9:20
Is that your personality in general?
9:22
Or is it because modeling wasn't your passion?
9:25
I guess that's my personality in general.
9:27
Oh, you're very, like, level.
9:30
Yeah, I tried to be.
9:31
Unless when I'm watching football.
9:34
Then I'm a different animal, eh?
9:36
Who do you support?
9:37
Liverpool.
9:38
Really?
9:39
I suppose this woman this morning, who is from Sierra Leone,
9:43
lives here, raised in America.
9:45
And she supports Liverpool.
9:46
She goes to matches and yes.
9:48
That's a smart woman.
9:51
OK, so in general, you're quite cool calm collected.
9:54
Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
9:56
The first time you saw your face on a billboard, where are we?
10:00
What is the campaign and how do we feel?
10:05
I've never seen my face on a billboard.
10:07
Really?
10:08
People always send pictures.
10:09
Oh, but you've not seen it in person.
10:11
No, people always from...
10:14
I remember this friend of mine, she a big billboard.
10:18
And I think it was Kenya, Mumbasa.
10:21
She sent me a picture in New York.
10:23
So whole, you know, people send me pictures.
10:26
And I'm like, oh, all right, cool.
10:28
Mauritius?
10:29
No.
10:29
Mauritius, I saw one in Mauritius.
10:32
Yeah, when I was driving to the airport.
10:34
And you don't care.
10:35
There's a big billboard on the side.
10:37
And you didn't care?
10:39
No, because I asked the driver.
10:43
After he dropped, he dropped herself at the airport.
10:45
I said, when you go back, can I take a picture of that?
10:49
And he said, all right, cool, right?
10:50
And he sent it to me.
10:52
I sent it straight to my agent.
10:54
And he said, this is not supposed to be there.
10:56
Oh!
10:59
So they had the pills.
11:02
Really?
11:03
Yeah.
11:03
So imagine if you weren't there, you would never see it.
11:05
Exactly, exactly.
11:06
So yeah, sent it to them.
11:09
Agency Rachel, the clients, and they had the pills
11:12
because the time expired.
11:15
OK.
11:16
So basically, when I get pictures of me being on billboards,
11:22
that's the first thing I do.
11:23
Make sure the money right.
11:25
Well, that is not supposed to be there.
11:28
Very cool.
11:30
So music has always been the focus.
11:32
Yeah.
11:33
And when you move to Cape Town, why
11:36
did you choose Cape Town and not Joeberg?
11:40
All right, being in Jamaica.
11:42
Seeing the ocean.
11:43
All right, the three months I spent in Joeberg.
11:46
You've been to Joeberg?
11:47
No.
11:47
So Joeberg is sort of like New York.
11:50
It's a city life.
11:51
It's very social, you know what I mean?
11:54
It's either host parties, bars, restaurants, pubs,
11:58
but not an outdoor like that.
12:00
OK.
12:00
So when I came to Cape Town and saw the ocean,
12:03
I'm like, this is it.
12:05
This is where it makes sense.
12:07
OK.
12:07
Because, yeah.
12:08
And you're still modeling when you decide to stay here?
12:12
Yeah.
12:13
This was like, literally, the first week I came.
12:16
And you just said that, yeah, man, I'm going to stay here.
12:18
Yeah.
12:20
Really?
12:21
Yeah.
12:22
So explain to me what the dynamic is in Jamaica.
12:25
Like, what are you leaving?
12:27
Is your family in Jamaica?
12:29
Yeah, my mom and my sister.
12:32
OK.
12:33
Yeah.
12:33
And son, you know, coconut milk, yeah, yeah.
12:36
But you didn't feel any ties to Jamaica, you didn't?
12:41
Listen, we always Jamaica, right?
12:44
First and foremost.
12:45
But I didn't know the day I wanted some different one.
12:48
Did you know that you wanted something different before you
12:50
came here for Africa Fashion Week?
12:52
Not necessarily.
12:54
OK.
12:55
Not necessarily.
12:55
It's not really short.
12:56
Yeah.
12:57
But coming here and then seeing it and see
12:59
everything, it's set up.
13:02
I'm sure I said, I'm not going to tell you myself,
13:04
yeah, I'm going to tell you what happens, yeah.
13:08
You called your mom and he told her
13:09
that you're not coming back.
13:10
What does she say?
13:12
She said, do you think?
13:13
Really?
13:15
That's the thing.
13:16
I mean, if she wasn't OK, I probably would not be here.
13:19
OK.
13:19
Yeah, but she gave me a blessing.
13:21
And I said, yeah, we'll do it.
13:22
How old are you at this point?
13:24
44.
13:26
OK.
13:26
Since that 15 years ago.
13:28
So you're old enough to be like make decisions.
13:32
I'm just trying to think if my child just
13:33
said, I'm not coming back, I would want to be like your mother.
13:37
Whether I would be like her, the jury is still old.
13:41
Yeah.
13:42
I mean, how did you sister feel?
13:45
She was working in France at the time.
13:48
OK.
13:48
Yeah, yeah.
13:49
So she was also old in the country, yeah.
13:52
Wow.
13:53
She was teaching English in France.
13:55
OK.
13:56
So you move, you're like the spirit told you
13:59
that this is where you're supposed to be and you get comfortable.
14:02
Was there ever a time where you're like, oh, I want to go back
14:05
on a plane and I want to go home?
14:08
Christmas.
14:09
OK.
14:10
Christmas time.
14:11
Because you know how we grew up in a Jamaica.
14:15
You know, you have Christmas tree, you have Christmas decoration,
14:18
you have Christmas, it all works.
14:20
And in America as well.
14:21
Because we grew up in that culture where, you know what I mean?
14:24
It's Christmas.
14:25
Here, there's no remnants of Christmas like that, you know what I mean?
14:30
Because you have a lot of different religions,
14:33
a lot of different things of people celebrating different things.
14:35
So the decoration that we use and all of that, that's not here.
14:39
So if you don't know it's December, you're probably not even
14:43
know it's Christmas, you know what I mean?
14:46
And then just being with friends and family at the time,
14:50
during that festive season, you never had that here.
14:54
And it was tough.
14:56
It was tough that time.
14:57
I mean, it's still hard, but I've adapted and I've gotten used to it.
15:00
But yeah.
15:02
Did you find moving abroad isolating?
15:04
Yes or no?
15:10
OK.
15:11
Yes or no?
15:12
Because when you come here, I have, you know, the community,
15:17
the modeling community, I have your friends and all of that.
15:21
That's the people, that's the group you run with, you know what I mean?
15:25
But like, friends, like friends who I grew up with,
15:30
friends who get you, family who get you, that's not here.
15:34
Right.
15:35
You know, always say, if I could move my friends here, it would be perfect.
15:41
Is that a little job you can food?
15:45
So just friends and food is all that's missing.
15:48
Yeah, pretty much.
15:50
Talk to them about the vibe.
15:51
If you were to describe what living in Cape Town feels like to someone
15:55
who's never been here, because even myself, this is the second time that I've been here.
16:00
And I can't really imagine what like day-to-day living looks and feels like.
16:06
Day-to-day, I mean, you know, you get into a routine, a very routine.
16:11
You know, you get up, you go to the gym, supermarkets, do whatever you need to.
16:15
The castings are studio recordings, all of that, you know.
16:20
So for me, there's a routine for everybody is different, you know, coming here.
16:26
But I mean, it depends on what you want.
16:30
If you're into nature, you can't go on a hike.
16:33
If you're into surfing, what you call it?
16:35
No, what's the thing they call kite surfing?
16:40
OK.
16:41
It's there.
16:41
Yeah.
16:43
Right, by where we stay?
16:44
I saw some.
16:44
Yeah, exactly.
16:46
That's one of the best areas for kite surfing in the world.
16:48
So you have a lot of Europeans who come here in the summer because it's
16:53
blowberg.
16:54
It's windy.
16:55
It's so windy that side.
16:57
You know what I mean?
16:58
So, yeah, I mean, if you're into, we call it, you know, running food, there are a lot
17:08
of different kinds of foods here.
17:11
Except all of them.
17:13
Yeah, you have a place called, you know, me coming here, is it a varied of it?
17:19
No.
17:20
And you have another place called banana, John.
17:21
Oh, no.
17:23
Oh.
17:24
I mean, the name's not great.
17:26
I plead the fifth.
17:27
You know, banana jam is better though, in terms of if you're out to compare, banana jam
17:34
is better.
17:35
It's better.
17:36
Yeah.
17:37
OK.
17:38
It's funny because when I first came here, I came straight from England and I felt that
17:45
the people were really warm and like really friendly.
17:48
And this time, I've come from, like, spending a lot of time in Southeast Asia.
17:53
Yeah.
17:54
And the reason I bring it up is because I feel like my experience of Cape Town is very
17:59
different, having come from a different destination.
18:02
Yeah.
18:03
So, when you come from England and, you know, the sunshine alone will make you feel
18:06
better, right?
18:07
Because you've been in the rain.
18:08
Yeah, because the rain, what?
18:09
Two days or so much.
18:10
In England, right?
18:11
Exactly.
18:12
And like, the people there are not warm, they're not that sense of community.
18:15
And so, the point is, I think I was really excited to be here because it felt really
18:21
the opposite to everything I'd been experiencing.
18:24
However, coming back here, having spent a lot of time in Southeast Asia going back home,
18:30
I realized that it's not as nice, like, as in the people aren't as warm as I thought
18:35
they were.
18:36
You know what?
18:38
Cape Town is very European, you see the dynamics, you see what happened.
18:45
And yeah, it's hard for some people to adjust when they come, because people are always
18:52
like, yeah, Cape Town is not really Africa, it's in Africa, it's in South Africa, but
18:58
it's not really Africa.
18:59
You know what I mean?
19:00
Especially when you go out of the city, so we were staying in Salembosch and it felt
19:04
like, why people were looking at me like, why am I here but not working?
19:08
Yeah.
19:09
And then, black people were looking at me, no, but why are you here and you're not working
19:12
with us?
19:13
And there was this really strange, like, tension maybe isn't the right word, but there
19:18
were definitely something in the atmosphere where people were confused.
19:23
Not, I don't feel that as much in the city, but definitely like, old and vineyard tone.
19:28
Yeah, I know.
19:29
There was a vibe.
19:30
You know what, Chris?
19:31
One of my boys, he came here and we were at the waterfront, the V&A waterfront.
19:37
How can I ruin doing our thing and then he stopped and asked me, yeah, what about that?
19:44
What about black people?
19:46
And that's not laughing, I'm saying, this is Cape Town.
19:51
This is Cape Town, you know, but you know what's funny is that we, what he just said, when
19:58
they talk to you and hear you're foreign, then it changes, they look at you differently.
20:05
So, okay, all right, cool, you're different.
20:09
So do you think that being foreign gives you a privilege in Cape Town?
20:13
Yes, I give you an example.
20:15
I remember when I just came here, I went on a date with this colored girl, right?
20:22
And she went on a rant about black people.
20:25
Okay.
20:26
Right?
20:27
I'm sitting there and I'm like, this girl, no, I'm black.
20:33
Right?
20:34
And so I asked her, I'm saying, you know, I'm black, right?
20:37
And she said, yeah, but you're different.
20:40
And I'm saying, how?
20:43
And she said, you're a foreigner.
20:45
Okay.
20:46
I'm saying, okay, so because I'm a black foreigner, I'm different.
20:51
You know, it's all right, cool.
20:52
Anyway, a few months later, she was pregnant.
20:56
I'm like, hey, black so African, make it, make sense, I know.
21:00
So when she was ranting to you, what is her perspective?
21:05
That, you know, the normal, there are liars, they're this, they're that, you know, the normal
21:10
talking points, yeah?
21:11
That we would hear elsewhere.
21:12
I guess I'm saying really because I just don't expect to hear it here.
21:15
Yeah.
21:16
Okay.
21:17
And it's funny because I was talking to someone about this, this dynamic of color and
21:21
black, right?
21:22
Because if you're not from South Africa, then you don't necessarily understand it.
21:27
And the person I was speaking to, he was saying that he's very proud of his colored like
21:32
heritage because it shows how diverse, like their genome is and how there are so many
21:38
different influences to being colored.
21:41
Yeah.
21:42
But I didn't realize that there was tension within, like, between color and black,
21:46
South African.
21:47
That was designed to divide.
21:50
Of course.
21:51
Right?
21:52
That was designed because, I mean, colored, colored is a culture.
21:57
It's a culture.
21:58
So it's more than just being fair skinned.
22:00
Yeah.
22:01
Yeah.
22:02
People who look like me were colored.
22:03
Oh, really?
22:04
Yeah.
22:05
People come to me first.
22:06
People think, I'm colored.
22:07
People come up to me speaking African and I'm saying, no brother, English.
22:11
And then they realize, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.
22:14
Okay.
22:15
And then you have people who look close to white, who I would say, that's a white person.
22:20
Right.
22:21
And they say they're colored.
22:22
Okay.
22:23
So it's more than just the hue.
22:25
Yeah.
22:26
It's more of a culture.
22:27
Okay.
22:28
And things.
22:29
It's like being latino, being Hispanic, where you have black latinos and so some like that.
22:34
That makes sense.
22:36
I asked a South African, but I'm interested to know your opinion, not being South African.
22:41
I asked her that with all the diversity and the differences that are going on, does
22:46
she feel that there is a sense of oneness within, like, South African culture?
22:52
And she said that she did because, for example, her, she said that everyone bright, everyone
22:58
does their barbecue.
22:59
And so regardless of whether you're a colored, black or white, everybody will kind
23:03
of unite that food.
23:07
And I was like, okay, that's interesting.
23:10
To me, oneness requires more than, more than that.
23:13
All right.
23:14
I'll give you an example.
23:15
All right.
23:16
If there is a, like a, a staff party, the office party, right?
23:22
You know, everybody will be there, you know, mixing it up, chopping it up.
23:25
And then at some point during that evening, a group will go over here, another group will
23:34
go over here, and another group will go over here.
23:37
Right.
23:38
Yannasan.
23:39
But that's where it shows the divide, that's still here.
23:44
When it comes to like rugby, our sports, that's when the country becomes united, right?
23:50
Whenever, especially when it's springboard played, rugby team, right?
23:55
And then after that, like, immediately after, then everybody goes, you know what I mean?
24:03
So as I said, it takes more than just sports, as sports in our game, you know, I mean,
24:12
and food to unite people.
24:15
As a foreigner, do you feel that you are able to really get into your own community,
24:22
or do you think you're always going to have this feeling of being slight outside, even
24:27
though it's been so long?
24:29
We actually have a small community of Caribbean people and American people here.
24:36
So like we're talking about Americans who have Jamaican parents, you know, who move here
24:43
and live in here, and like Canadians are people from different other Caribbean islands.
24:49
Right.
24:50
You know what I mean?
24:51
We come together and we do our own thing, man, you know what I mean?
24:54
Okay.
24:55
So you've been able to make your own little circle within the circle?
24:59
Yeah.
25:00
All right.
25:02
You know what's funny?
25:03
I remember the first time I did a shoot here, right?
25:08
So they're doing makeup, right?
25:11
And the makeup artist was a colored girl and she asked me, what brought you to South Africa?
25:20
And I said, I always wanted to come to Africa.
25:24
I should say, but this is not Africa.
25:25
Oh, she said that.
25:27
And I'm saying, yeah, it is, I should say, no, this is South Africa.
25:33
Okay.
25:34
So I'm saying, but South Africa is the only country in Africa that have the name, Africa
25:39
in it.
25:40
So it's not Africa.
25:41
You know what I'm saying?
25:43
Yeah.
25:44
So basically just the mindset that we're different.
25:47
Different.
25:48
I'm saying, no, you're not.
25:50
Wow.
25:51
I'm surprised that it's coming from within.
25:53
Exactly.
25:54
Open my eye.
25:55
So listen.
25:56
I had to stop people.
25:57
I'm saying, she was right here and I said, where are you from?
26:02
Stop this black guy.
26:03
And he said, I'm from from here and I'm saying, so that makes you African, right?
26:07
And he said, yeah, I stopped by white girl and I said, where are you from?
26:10
I should say, I'm from here.
26:11
And I said, that makes you African.
26:13
I should say yes.
26:14
Okay.
26:15
So I'm saying, so, yeah, it's crazy, man, it's crazy.
26:23
So when you move and you are predominantly earning your income from modeling, can you live
26:30
comfortably here?
26:31
Yeah.
26:32
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
26:33
If you notice the standard of living here and it's, yeah, comfortable.
26:40
When do you decide to pursue your real passion for music?
26:44
How long after you move here?
26:46
Like a year after.
26:48
Okay.
26:49
Yeah, like a year after.
26:50
Funnily it happened, you know, I mean, by coincidence, because my, so I was at a Zimbabwe
27:00
Independence Party.
27:01
We do a number of boys, right?
27:03
And one of the guys in the rudimentals at the time, which I, I never knew, came and, you
27:10
know, I was talking to my boy and he introduced me and say, yo, he's German, blah, blah,
27:14
this and that.
27:15
So he said, all right, cool.
27:17
And that's how I could you act off and I said to my boy, what is African's no war against
27:24
music, man.
27:25
I'm saying, yo, good, man.
27:27
That's what I said, you know, I mean, in my mind, I'm saying, yo, and then my, my book
27:33
at the time, I'm an agency, he said, yo, listen, I know this reggae band here, I'm a
27:39
connect here with them because he knew I did music back home, you know, I mean, so,
27:44
you know, I met the connection.
27:46
So you know, I started talking to my boy and what's up, and he said, listen, I'm a pick
27:50
up and I bring it to rehearsal.
27:53
The CM guy who wasn't the club is a CM guy who compete me up.
27:56
And I'm like, oh, man, you, that's all right, cool.
28:00
So went into the studio then, oh, and, you know, it's all right, guys, right?
28:06
Yeah.
28:07
All right, guys, and that's a cool, let me hear what I'm gonna do.
28:12
And then let's start playing, and I'm like, yo, they're good, we got, listen, all
28:17
of them know music, they read music, they studied music, so the new music, and I'm like,
28:23
okay, so anyway, I'm there observing, looking our own, and then they gave me the mic.
28:29
So you know, start speed two things, and I'm saying, why are you doing Saturday?
28:33
And I'm saying, chill in, and I'm, I'm saying, we have a show up there, come, come
28:38
perform, and I said, all right, cool, listen, I never knew any other songs, I was on stage
28:46
just looking at them to cue me, to cue me when they call me, and then just kept looking,
28:52
and then I just, and then I start, and the rest is this, true, man.
28:56
Oh, wow.
28:57
You know, yeah.
28:58
So before you had met them, you didn't know, you didn't plan that you were gonna make
29:04
music also a part of your scene here.
29:06
I wanted to.
29:07
But you weren't sure how to make music.
29:09
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
29:10
And that's why I said, it just fell into my lap like that, you know.
29:15
So now your life, 15 years later, how is it different from what it would have been,
29:22
aside from the physical living in a different country, how do you think you are different
29:26
as a person?
29:28
Man, I've grown a lot, man, I've grown a lot, and the thing is being out of your comfort
29:35
zone, which, you know, in that little box in Jamaica, yeah, that has taught me a lot,
29:41
you know, because basically everything I had to do myself, man, had to do myself, had
29:47
to learn to cook.
29:48
You never want to hold the cook before?
29:50
Yeah, we could have cooked it, we could have cooked, but you know, I mean, like, cook consistently.
29:54
Okay.
29:55
Like, when I was in Jamaica, you know, I would start cooking, and then my mom will come,
30:01
take over.
30:02
I'm gonna go out and play about it.
30:03
Right.
30:04
You know what?
30:05
You know what?
30:06
You know what I mean?
30:07
You know what I mean?
30:08
But here, you know what I mean?
30:09
I have to do that.
30:10
And, yeah.
30:11
I have to do that, man, and just being responsible, man, being an adult, you know, get up, be
30:21
disciplined, you know, beyond time, beyond time, yeah, I mean, and as I said, the dynamics
30:29
in terms of South Africa, the history, you know what I mean?
30:36
It has opened up my eyes to the world, and how the world works, you know, because, you
30:42
know, Jamaica, we're all Jamaicans, regardless of what we look like, right?
30:46
We're all Jamaicans first.
30:48
People don't understand.
30:49
They just don't understand.
30:50
I try to explain that to people, and it's like they can grasp it.
30:53
Yeah.
30:54
You know what I mean?
30:55
And it's funny because I've spoken about it in so many different ways in the sense that
30:59
people talk about how multicultural, like London is, and I'm like, you guys don't know
31:04
what multiculturalism is.
31:06
And I say to people, 100% we are classist, 100% I would never deny that.
31:12
And however, I will take classism over the other isims any day, because there is a fluidity,
31:19
right?
31:20
Like, you could be from a particular, you know, ghetto in Jamaica, but if you address
31:24
a particular way and speak, speak a spokey, you can move, right?
31:28
You can, you can navigate and I just think that in other cultures like England, for
31:35
example, you know, their classism is a different kind of classism in the sense that it is so
31:41
tied to race, right?
31:42
I will never be old money, right?
31:44
You can see upon sight that my ancestors were working for the old money, so I will never
31:49
be old.
31:50
I want to speak a spokey, no matter how much education you have, no matter, you know,
31:54
how much decorum you will always have a different place, whereas that doesn't apply to Jamaica.
32:02
So don't go, I get that we have our own issues, but again, I'd rather our issues over what
32:06
I see going out in other places and other countries, I know the Caribbean, not everyone loves
32:12
us, but what I have observed, for example, Trinidad, there is not a oneness of being Trinidadian
32:19
right?
32:20
It is very black and it is very Indian, and that is my observed experience that didn't
32:28
apply.
32:29
I first realized that my best friend was Cooley, I'm sorry, when I said Cooley, I do not
32:34
mean the derogative for first round, because I did have to learn that you can't just go
32:38
out on the street, that's a Cooley, so I do apologize, right?
32:40
I didn't mean it directly, but I go to school in England and the Indian people in the
32:46
UK are not vibing with the black people, right?
32:50
And I know I might sound silly, but I was about 16 at the time, I come back home for holiday
32:55
for Christmas, and I look at my friend Steph, and I say, well, Steph, you're a Cooley,
32:59
like you're Indian, and he was like, yes, and I was just like, it just never occurred to
33:05
me, I know I might sound silly, but I had grown up with this guy from I was like eight
33:09
years old, and he's just Steph, he's not Steph the Indian guy, and I just think that it's
33:16
a privileged experience that I only really appreciated when I left Jamaica.
33:21
Yeah, and that's true, because I was dating this Trini, I went to Trini that one time,
33:28
and I noticed on the currency, there's no, but no, no figure of anybody, right?
33:36
So I said to her, why is there no person on the money?
33:41
It's just that because if you put that Indian, black people are going to be upset if you put
33:45
that black person, the Indians are going to be upset.
33:50
See what I mean?
33:51
We have every kind of color upon the money.
33:53
It's crazy, yeah.
33:54
And even here, if you notice the different accents, white people have a different accent,
34:01
the black people, depending on the tribe as well, colored people have a different accent,
34:06
I want to show them like videos of Chinese-Jomeican, white-Jomeican speaking, Indian-Jomeican
34:11
speaking.
34:12
And I said, you guys are on the same, I don't say it.
34:16
Yeah.
34:17
My friend, like from the States, she couldn't get over it, like she visited me in Jamaica,
34:22
and she just stare in.
34:23
I'm not my girl, stop staring at the people in, but there was actually like, and again,
34:27
from her perspective, I get it, once there was this guy, he had like golden locks, like
34:31
blonde curly hair, and he has a Jamaican accent.
34:34
And she was just, she just couldn't, her brain could not come cute at all, but no, I,
34:41
you know, and that's why I guess I'm interested in this idea.
34:45
I've lived away from Jamaica for like the last 10 years, and I have brainwashed my children,
34:52
like no joke.
34:55
Every morning they say their affirmations, and a part of that is that they're Jamaican.
34:59
If you ask them where they're from, they don't skip a beat, they say that they're Jamaican.
35:03
And that was really important to me because I feel like being Jamaican has prepared me
35:08
for anything that the world wants to throw at me.
35:11
But my goal is always to go back home.
35:14
Like always.
35:15
I haven't figured out the whole because, Lord, God, the food price is...
35:18
I've been to those settled there.
35:20
100%.
35:21
I don't want to raise my children anywhere else for the bulk of their formative years.
35:25
I also feel like I am the best version of myself in Jamaica.
35:30
But it sounds like you are cool, like settled here.
35:34
Yeah, Africa is home, man.
35:36
Really?
35:37
I forgot.
35:38
Listen.
35:39
Never say never, though.
35:42
Sure.
35:43
When it comes to, you know, if I would go back to Jamaica, never say never, but for
35:49
no, I feel like home here.
35:53
You're happy.
35:54
You know what I mean?
35:55
I've never had to look over my back.
35:57
I've never felt threatened in terms of getting looks.
36:04
Sure.
36:05
I've gotten looks, you know, I mean, and sometimes to even intervene in some people being spoken
36:20
to us right away.
36:21
Okay.
36:22
You know, I mean, you can't talk to him like that, you know, I mean, I might watch.
36:26
You know, because that mentality from back in the day apartheid is still here, in a lot
36:33
of the people, right?
36:35
Is that in a way of how people communicate in work settings or is that, you know, regular
36:42
just, we're talking about going in the supermarket, it's going in supermarket and whole, the staff
36:47
in the supermarket is being spoken to by customers.
36:51
You know what I mean?
36:52
Like the cashier or the guy at the parking, the shop or whatever, you know, do it as spoken
36:59
to him like, you know, he can't do that.
37:02
He's a human being.
37:03
You know what I'm saying?
37:04
Yeah.
37:05
You know what I mean?
37:06
And to be fair, it comes from the older folks.
37:09
Right.
37:10
Yeah.
37:11
So then soon get extinct and it'll be fine.
37:14
Yeah.
37:15
I know.
37:16
I'm still person.
37:17
The seeds.
37:18
Yeah.
37:20
It's funny you talk about safety, because I, so first time I came, I didn't drive.
37:25
I flew to somewhere to go to a safari and drove, but in terms of in the city, that was
37:30
in Joe, Joe Berkson?
37:31
No, I flew to Port Elizabeth and they had to drive from that airport to the bush.
37:36
But this time I've been driving and when I was taking a taxi to go to get the rental
37:41
car, I was using my phone at the traffic light to just check whatever I was doing.
37:46
And he was like, I don't want to like make you scared, but don't use your phone at the
37:50
traffic light.
37:51
And I was like, really?
37:52
And he's like, yeah, I said, we're in the car.
37:56
What I'm going to do?
37:57
Like, go through the window.
37:58
Yeah.
37:59
And he's like, probably bring the window.
38:00
And he said, yeah, they'll bring.
38:01
Yeah.
38:02
It's my son grab.
38:03
Yeah, it's my son grab.
38:04
That's what he was saying.
38:05
I was like, what?
38:06
I said, I'm from Kingston.
38:07
Nobody has ever told me not to use my phone in the car.
38:09
And again, whenever I come to new countries and people tell me about crime and violence, I'm
38:14
not immediately put off because I know what it means to be from a country.
38:18
There you go.
38:19
Where people tell you that all the time.
38:20
Yeah.
38:21
Yeah, for this street smart.
38:22
Once a street smart, they know.
38:23
A hundred percent.
38:24
So like, people saying that South Africa was dangerous was never really a deterrent because
38:29
I'm like, they'd probably tell you Jamaica was dangerous and we all know all that
38:32
goes.
38:33
Exactly.
38:34
Yeah.
38:35
However, having it come from a South African to like not have my phone on and so I was
38:38
like, oh, maybe I should take them seriously.
38:41
You asked if I'd been to Joeburg.
38:42
Yeah.
38:43
I did in going to Joeburg.
38:45
Everybody tells me not to go especially with my children as in local South Africans
38:51
tell me not to go.
38:52
Tell you not to go.
38:53
I wouldn't, I wouldn't listen if it were foreigners for the same reason I've explained.
38:56
But when local people are telling me, don't go, I'm like, you know what?
39:00
The children are small and by myself.
39:02
Let me just listen to the people that probably know they're going to depend on, like everywhere
39:07
it depends on where you go.
39:09
So you think they're overacting?
39:10
Yeah.
39:11
Hang out with, you know what I mean?
39:12
This in Joeburg is a lot of kidnappings, right?
39:16
But more so for ransom.
39:18
Right.
39:19
You know, so there are targeted families, you know, where this family of money, we're
39:24
going to kidnap somebody from that family.
39:26
Sure.
39:27
And ask some money.
39:28
You know what I mean?
39:29
Less random occurrences.
39:30
Yeah.
39:31
I mean, you have the, like this friend of mine, she went to Joeburg on the first night,
39:35
her phone was picked.
39:37
Okay.
39:38
But yeah, that could happen anyway.
39:40
Exactly.
39:41
And this guy from Cape Town, who he lives in Cape Town now, but he's born and raised in
39:46
Joeburg.
39:47
Yeah.
39:48
It's telling me that they're putting acid through the window if there's a crack in the
39:51
window.
39:52
I said, when am I talking about that?
39:53
I said, I've never heard that.
39:54
I said, I'm not going.
39:55
I've never heard that.
39:56
But the reason I bring it up is because since I've been here, so driving by myself, I
40:01
feel less scared than when the taxi driver was telling me to put my phone away, right?
40:06
So I've, not that I know, like the areas, but you can get a sense of, of, okay, this
40:12
is a place where, you know what I mean?
40:15
This is a place where, okay, cool, I'm not going to take up my phone.
40:18
But I don't feel, I was even, because my dad was like, why are you there?
40:22
He was like, scrap the podcast, scrap the stopper club, get out.
40:26
He's like, what?
40:27
He goes, why are you there?
40:28
I'm like, dad, hold, let me just see the place first, because I had just come from
40:31
Salam Bosch to a Cape Town city, and so it's like, right, so I was like, let me see,
40:37
sit a place first, right?
40:38
Let me get a, he literally says, do we need a bodyguard?
40:41
He was going, he was going like, he went there because of this guy, right?
40:49
Like really scared us.
40:50
And so after I was driving by myself, we gone to restaurants, I said, dad, I don't think
40:56
we need to be worried at all.
40:59
I've been to Joe Berg many times, and I've never been worried, I was scared, I hear stories,
41:07
this happened, that happened, you see, and videos and all that, but when I, I'm in
41:13
Joe Berg, like, I just came from Joe Berg, as you know, and I was okay, I was never worried,
41:21
I took off my phone, use it, whatever.
41:24
Do you think the international media make certain destinations to seem worse than they are?
41:31
I think so, I think so, because even some of my friends when they come here to visit,
41:37
I said, brother, Africa is, John, I'm not telling you this, I understand, and I'm saying,
41:44
yeah, because when we grew up, as I know, upon the news, we see Africa's poor destitute,
41:51
the same one fly, well, there's a panellica, you would be, it's always a fly.
41:57
Exactly, and you know what I mean, let's help these poor Africans, I'm blah, blah,
42:01
this and that, and the thing is, the same people who push that narrative of Africa being poor
42:09
and this and that, are the same people who don't want to leave Africa, that should tell you
42:15
something, they're telling you not to come to Africa, but they don't want to leave.
42:22
What do you think were some of the misconceptions of your life in South Africa?
42:28
Miscus, misconceptions, everything, no, that, I mean, the different, one thing of notice is that,
42:48
in terms of divide, the different tribes, the different tribes, I thought they were
42:58
Africans, and it's not only here in South Africa, across the continent, like with different
43:04
Africans that you meet, right? The divide in the tribe, I'm better than you and I'm saying,
43:13
but that divide is helping a certain narrative. You get what I'm saying?
43:20
Yeah, and that needs to change. I get it, your pro-day tribe, your pro-day where you come from,
43:27
you know what I mean? And like I was in Switzerland and I met this guy at this,
43:35
we're at this pool party and there was this bonza from, I think it was from Congo, right?
43:43
So I was talking to him because, you know, I live in Africa and this and that, I said,
43:46
where are you from? And he said, oh, I'm French. I'm French. And I'm saying,
43:52
brother, which tribe you come from in Africa? Because the thing is, I said to him, listen,
43:59
I'm from Jamaica. We were colonized by the British. Am I British? No. So tell me where you're from.
44:08
And all of that, and then he realized, I'm saying, come on, bro, but the thing is, that's another
44:12
thing here in Africa where the mindset is that anything close enough to be in Europe,
44:19
Pian, they tried to push that, because I guess it makes them feel better about themselves,
44:27
are superior in a sense. But I'm saying, come on, man, we brought up, we brought up,
44:32
we've come from, you know, I mean, I'm not even African, African as in from the continent,
44:37
but I'm proud to be here. You know what I mean? Do you think that Cape Town specifically has
44:47
changed over the time? Because you've been here quite a while. And I'm interested to know
44:53
what have you observed? It's getting more gentrified, right? Yeah, certain areas, especially the
45:02
prime areas, like, you know, this area, you know, sea point, green point. I'll let them say,
45:09
there's a bunch of be a camps way to work. Yeah, it's a lot of Europeans and Americans are
45:17
investing in properties and Airbnb. And what that does is push the locals out of the city,
45:25
because they can't afford it. They can't afford to buy the properties because with influx of foreign
45:30
investors who spend pounds or euros or dollars, you know what I mean? The price goes up and in
45:37
on our own, the coffee shops, the supermarket, everything, the price that going up to much,
45:43
the people who are coming there. Right. So basically pushing the locals outside of the city.
45:51
Is there any resentment from the local community? Yeah, definitely, definitely. And it's brewing
45:57
underneath. Okay. It's brewing people, some people with vocals, but you hear, you know,
46:03
whispers. Yeah, people talking about it. People talking about it.
46:07
So you come here, you live in your best life, and then you become a dad. Oh, yeah, you know,
46:15
I mean, I'll just say you, you know, tell your kids that you're a Jamaican. Yes. We always tell my
46:22
daughter you're a Jamaican. Okay. Because you're half German, half Jamaican. Yes. You know what I mean,
46:29
but she knows it. She even knows national anthem for Jamaica. Yeah. Yeah. My girls sing it every
46:34
day. Zip Zip 1 0 1 0 3 FM. I listen to that every day on the internet. Yes. And she always hear it.
46:42
Six o'clock in the morning. Yeah. And well, six o'clock with you. Jamaica time. I think one o'clock here.
46:47
Okay. Yeah. It's one o'clock here. So she always hear it. And I remember her mom was singing it one
46:52
time. And she said to her mom, mom, no, no, no, don't sing it. You're not Jamaica. You're not
46:58
Jamaica. How has father who changed you? It has taught me to be patient. Like way more. I'm chill.
47:08
Or I would consider, consider myself to be chill. But yeah, I mean, I've been a child. It's a
47:15
different level of chillness. Maybe you want to call it that. Yeah. So, patients,
47:21
most importantly, you know, and just, just unconditional love, man. You know, where you see
47:34
I just said, man, yeah. Milico on that. What is the experience of raising a child here? In terms
47:43
of identity, you know, her mom's German, your Jamaica, and she was born here. Yeah. So she's
47:50
going to be born and presumably raised for right now in South Africa. So I'm just wondering what
47:55
does that look like in terms of her identity? What is the perception of Jamaica and here? Like,
48:06
is there a strong, because I say this, if you had, and I had had this conversation a year ago,
48:12
I would presume that everywhere knows Jamaica, right? But in Southeast Asia, the number,
48:18
I'm like, sorry, Jamaica, but it's Jamaica. I don't have a two-way saying, I'm like,
48:21
Bob Marley, then I said no. A man, then I said, I'm like, I said, reggae music? He's like, no, no,
48:29
I don't. So I played, I was determined. I was like, I'm going to suffer, right? So I'm
48:36
on love. The man, then I said, I don't know young people music. I said, I said, what?
48:43
I said, three of the birds, I played three of the birds and said no, no. But here, they seem to
48:50
have an awareness for reggae, obviously. I met a lady yesterday, she was very excited, she goes,
48:55
you're the first Jamaica that I've met in real life. Really? Yeah, I love it. I get a lot. She's like,
49:01
I have a lot of Jamaica's online, I've seen things on it, but I've never met one in person. I get
49:06
super excited. They know a lot about the music, right? Bob Marley, the whole work, because
49:14
during a part, I get musical tools to help. Funnily, reggae music is fun.
49:21
Also during a part, because they didn't want to go to church or music. The message, you understand?