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JUST SA Mpumalanga - Edwin Mametja · TIPS Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Trade Industrial Policy Strategy's official podcast, Tips Talk.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: The show we'll be delve into the fascinating world of economics and the impact on global development.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Elise Hutting, and today we are asking why it is important for local and provincial government officials to understand the impacts of climate change, the imperative to decarbonize our economy as well as making that transition truly just.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to have a fantastic guest with us here, Edwin.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: We've met each other actually on the International Study Tour in Indonesia that was part of the Iki Jet Coal Regions and East Kalimantan.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to know your story about your specific role in Bumalanga in your municipality.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was fascinated about what your mandate is and your day-to-day challenges, engaging with your stakeholders.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't mind, take us a step back, tell us a bit about yourself.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'd really appreciate that.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you so much, Elise, and Grito, a warm welcome to my space.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important to share with you that the issues around just transition are serious and inevitable in our country.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Edwin Mamecha.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm from the Ngangala District Municipality.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: The district sits at the center of South African coal-based economy and home to several power stations.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that we account for about 70% of the energy supply in the country.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: That makes us an epicenter of just transition.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, indeed, Elise, Indonesia was great.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think we got an opportunity to learn a lot and something that we can copy and implement in our country.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think the opportunity of peer learning was great.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And indeed, my role in the district, it's easy but yet complex.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm responsible for climate change and biodiversity, and then also the driving of implementation of just transition program.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what I've been doing on a daily basis is basically to develop programs and plans aimed at issues around climate action and also the just transition, because the issue is that we cannot afford to leave anyone behind in the transition.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: We know that these present a lot of challenges, particularly the socioeconomic challenges that come with moving from the fossil fuel-based economy to the renewable.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: As a district that harbors about eight power stations, which are most of them old, and you all aware of the commodity that recently shut down, I think it was 2022, which left community devastated, especially when it comes to job losses.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So our role as a district, myself, we have to ensure that the transition is done properly.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this means that we need to ensure that we implement programs that empowers communities.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: We have been running a number of initiatives.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: This includes your development of small medium enterprises in the green economy.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: We've worked with a number of partners, including your Indal law, including the DFFE, as well as the Presidential Climate Commission in trying to empower the community so that they participate in the green industry.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, as I've indicated, we do need to also ensure that our local municipalities are better positioned to deal with the issues of transition.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: We acknowledge the fact that we still have capacity gaps.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: We have been working with partners like NBI to try and build capacity of local officials in actually planning and implementation of just transition work.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: So as a district, our main role is to play a coordination and facilitation role in ensuring that the just transition work, the climate action has been implemented at local level is to translate the policy into action.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is important.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we have, of course, experienced several challenges.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think one being the issues of our budget to fund our programs.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: But our main emphasis is on partnership.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: We driving partnership, lobbying support from various players, from development partners so that we are able to implement more effective programs on the ground.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: We want to see dust.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: We want to see communities participating in the space, especially the vulnerable groups, particularly the women and youth.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: We know that unemployment is an issue.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: If we're going to add a layer of challenges that comes with a just transition, it adds more burden when it comes to the economy of the district.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we are ought to diversify our economy.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: The risk that we're sitting with, we rely on one sector, which is the mining sector, which is tied to the energy sector.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to diversify our economy.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: The other role that you know we have to make sure that we drive is the diversification of the economy.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Look at different pathways in the green industry.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: What can we do?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I always say, you know, if we talk just transition as a case, we look at how thing how thing has gone through that.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh like during the training that we are attending now, I mean, we were told about the whole concept of just transition and where it started, and how it's not only for the whole region, but every province will have to play a role in the space.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it is interesting.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think the position that I'm sitting in now, it's failing you.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a newly established division that I'm leading in the district, which for me it's an exciting journey.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, there are those challenges that you know we have to overcome for us to deliver effectively.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing, and I I really see your role as a just transition leader, also setting an example of what other provinces could maybe adopt as roles, strategic roles within local municipalities across the country.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: May I ask you?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like there's a lot on your plate.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just from a very personal experience, how do you manage all these expectations on the ground from the community?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: How you actually are able to engage all your stakeholders in the municipality from finance to infrastructure, cross-portfolios.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds to me like a daunting task, and yet you are still very positive when we speak to you, you're very energized.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: But could you maybe give us some insights on do you feel supported in your own role?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have some advice for other municipalities who's listening to this podcast, and if they are looking at hiring a person who has a dedicated task such as yourself, what advice would you give?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Elise.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is important for us to facilitate in terms of just transition work that we are doing.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, indeed, it's an exciting journey yet yet a challenging one.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Mainstreaming is very important.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, the climate change and just transition issues are cross-cutting and affect all the departments within the municipalities, both the district and local municipalities.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what we've been doing to ensure that we build the just transition, you know, area is to ensure that we capacitate our officials, particularly those who are responsible for planning and economic development, environmental officers, the finance colleagues.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: We do capacity building.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said earlier, we have partnered with the NBI and GIZ who are assisting with skills development.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we have done quite a number of training sessions that were aimed at capacitating officials, including your counselors, because we need buy-in from political leadership.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So without understanding of what just transition is all about, I think we won't get a buy-in.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think the best thing to do is to first capacitate your officials, capacitate all your peers in both the district and the local municipalities.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And at a community level, we have had a number of community awareness programs just to sensitize the issues of just transition.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: We need to capacitate communities on what just transition is all about, so that they are also involved.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the principle of just transition is around bringing everyone on board, not leaving anyone behind.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to ensure that communities are trained and capacitated in issues around just transition, especially the opportunities that exist in the space, so that they partake in the space of the green economy.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So also what we did in trying to ensure proper facilitation of just transition work, we have identified what we call climate champions in all the local municipalities.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have six local municipalities in the district.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can imagine the challenge that comes with coordinating all the six.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually had to identify key officials in all the six local municipalities because we are expected as a district to support the local municipalities in every function that they ought to be delivering to communities.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was actually something that was good for us to do because it also builds relations.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And through this partnership that I've cited with the GIZ, we have a number of engagement from identifying bankable projects, just transition projects, just to enable also the participation of economy.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to establish a climate change forum.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a district climate change forum where you know you find even the private sector, including ESCOM, all the businesses that are operating in the district, as well as the community representative and the local municipalities as well as sector departments.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: That platform actually enables us to deliberate on climate action and drive climate action and also it fosters collaboration among stakeholders, which is very key.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, this is not something that I can do alone.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I need different players, you know, different sectors from private to public sector NGOs.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think yeah.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: To be supported with a team and the institutional alignment and structures, I think, is very encouraging for us to learn.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we look forward to invite you on one of our community of practice events to also maybe share with the other municipalities across the country how they can adopt these kind of institutional arrangements.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So now that you are with us in Bulakwane in Lapobo today, you're a bit of the outsider from Bumulanga, I would like to ask you how was your experience with the two-day capacity building?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Did you make new friends?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe was there a welcoming spirit for allowing you into the province?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is your country where you were, you this is your homeland, where you were born, and you have an affection for Lumpopo.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Could you maybe say to us also if there was anything in Lumpopo from what we've discussed in Green Economy Strategies from a local level that stood out, that you think maybe that's something that Mumulanga could really look at and learn?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because we don't always have to go into national borders to learn, but maybe there's some really good projects locally in provinces that's not well advertised.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're not always accessing these case studies and projects that you could maybe take home to your province in Bumulanga.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very interesting one.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yes, indeed.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was born in this province, and it's it's actually nice to be here and sharing with local municipalities, the district, and the province officials in Limpopo.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the training itself was very well organized, and I think the material is high quality, and I do believe that, you know, we have shared a lot.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they've also drawn some lessons from the district.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what stood out for me was, you know, I always encourage peer learning.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think peer learning is very important.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: The work that they are doing in Limpopo, it's actually something that we can learn from.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think this number of policy and strategy framework that I think colleagues have shared during the breakaway sessions yesterday and the activities that are happening on the ground, including the green competition.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is encouraging, especially for the young people.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: We always, you know, say we need to empower our youth.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: These are the futures of this economy.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's something that I will really want to expand on in the district.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: We did do some career expo on renewable energy recently at the district.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's something that I also shared with them to say, you know, you must also look at this.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: They also shared with me even the challenges.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it will also help to learn from challenges and just to ask how did you overcome them?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: They were able to share some of the challenges that they've been experiencing, especially the issue of a political buy-in, and which obviously I had to share with them the programs that we did, particularly those that were targeted for counselors, where we workshop them.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an ongoing thing that we are doing to ensure that they really understand what just transition is all about and not to see it as something negative.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And just to highlight some of the positives about it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, like I said, this issue of just transition is inevitable.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we are sitting with, as I've indicated, number of power stations, some of which are about to shut down in the near future.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Five years to come, that is an issue.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to also look at what are the economic pathways that Limpopo is looking at.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that came very well yesterday in terms of some of the industries like agriculture.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know Limpopo is big with agriculture, but we need to put more emphasis on climate smart agriculture, the conservation agriculture.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: That is something that is going to assist us.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe going forward through this relationship that was established here, like I did with yourself, Elise, in Indonesia.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think it's going to be something that will benefit us a lot going forward.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you had uh one colleague when we were coming in and saying that we will have to talk more.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's that spirit of learning from each other.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's so encouraging to hear that they welcomed you in the province and opened up their strategic plans.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I look forward to continue this journey with you, Edwin, and seeing how your leadership for just transition can really influence our other local government officials across the country.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got two more years to walk this journey and establish the community of practice, really have anchors in each province, and also to go to India on our international study tour.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think you also made some friends in India when we were in Indonesia and some really good projects that we can look at at India.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's something to look forward to.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: One more area that I just want to ask you in conclusion, you're also working on a green economy gender inclusion policy.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Would you mind sharing that with us and our listeners?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is also a masterclass that we will be offering through the Justice A online learning platform.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: But some of your maybe insights that you feel, how do you think the gender issue in just transition plays off within Mpumulanga and especially within your municipality?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is very important because one of the strategic objectives of the municipality is ensuring mainstreaming of gender, you know, participation, especially the vulnerable group in the economy.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: When we look at the concept of just transition, there are a lot of opportunities.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: But what we want to do, or what we want to see, is women and youth participating in the space.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we are in a process of developing the agenda mainstreaming policy on just transition in partnership with UN Women, who've been one of the best partners here this far in driving the climate action agenda.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think the policy is going to assist us a lot in seeing how we can mainstream agenda in planning and also in programs that we are supporting as the municipality.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the policy will obviously come with a guideline, and I think that is the next phase that we uh have embarked on to look at us having a guideline that will give us pointers on how do we mainstream gender issues in climate action and just transition.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's quite important because women are more vulnerable to issues of climate change than men, and that has been proven by a lot of research.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to make sure that our um women are empowered, are also you know, empowered in a way that they also empower others.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: We know in the district we have a lot of households that are um female-headed households.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's about 64%, or if I'm not mistaken, but I think it's around roughly 50.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important to empower them so that they also, you know, provide for their families in the space because there are those also who were married to mine workers.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we need to also make sure that they participate in the space of the green industry.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the policy, the strategy, and the guideline are going to assist us a lot in driving that agenda.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's also important for other municipalities across the country to also look into that, especially when it comes to programs that are aimed at empowering women.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think recently, with the work that we have done with UN Women on Climate Smart Agriculture, we were targeting about 200 women, and um it was sort of a training and mentorship program.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: We have uh rolled out training thus far in four local municipalities in the district, and we have seen a lot of women who are in agriculture who are very passionate and they showed that they are committed in the space, and we are going to have a second phase, which is one-on-one mentorship with the farmers that we trained, just to assist them from developing of business plans and also to assisting them in accessing the funds because we know the space of funding is tricky, so we had to do the one-on-one session with them so that we identify their gaps and challenges in order for us to build something that is tailored for them.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think yeah, we are very keen, and our IDP also emphasized that we need to empower our vulnerable groups, particularly women and youth.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Edwin.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: That is a very exciting note to close on.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're looking forward to the gender lens investment, also to our listeners.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: A big emphasis on supporting programs.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: If there's any international funders, speak to Edwin, look at these programs, and and we hope to see more women being empowered in in your province, Numpumalanga.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your time.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And from our TIPS team and Justice A, we wish you all of the best in the role that you have to play and also the challenges that you're facing.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we look forward to see you in our community of practice.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Edwin.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Elise.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yes, we are going to work together.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to this relationship.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually working for all of us.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I will want to encourage everyone to look at the work that TIPS is doing.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've learned a lot from your online material.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite important for us as municipalities, as provincial departments, to actually look at that and see how we go about our planning, our implementation, identifying of just transition projects.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot that is on those materials.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Elise, for this opportunity.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: To our listeners, your support means the world.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining the Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies official podcast.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, sustainable growth is not just a goal, but a path to a more resilient and prosperous future.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and connect with us on social media.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, I'm Elise Hutting, your host, and I'm signing off.