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"We’ve never had a better moment to adapt your game to film or TV" · The Game Business Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: If the game's rights holder,
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: the developer,
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: publisher,
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: both,
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  SPEAKER_01: is not involved or is minimally involved,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: it will be to the detriment of the adaptation.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sadly,
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  SPEAKER_00: it is a heat-seeking business where you have,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  producers chasing game rights now who have never touched a game
• 0:18
  controller in their life.
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  SPEAKER_00: We don't want those people trying to adapt games.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to The Game Business Show with me, Christopher Dring.
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  SPEAKER_02: We are at Screenplay,
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  SPEAKER_02: part of London Game Festival,
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  to talk about the expanding world of video games going into TV
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  and movies.
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  And to talk about this,
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  I have three absolute experts here to talk about it.
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  SPEAKER_02: We have Simon Pullman, who is the lawyer, entertainment lawyer.
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  SPEAKER_02: We have Mike Goldberg and Dimitri Johnson from Story Kitchen,
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  who are all about taking your IP and bringing them into the
• 0:51
  world of TV and film.
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  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everybody.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 0:56
  We're talking just after Minecraft movie has been such a
• 0:59
  phenomenal success.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Have your phones been ringing off the hook?
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  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: As expected.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  SPEAKER_00: every time we have one of these adaptations,
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  SPEAKER_00: there seems to be this surprise,
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  SPEAKER_00: this shock that people actually showed up for it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of what we've been saying from day one,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: treat the fans with respect,
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  SPEAKER_00: treat the games as if it's art.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  have a level of respect throughout the process and you will see
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  the results that
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  SPEAKER_00: we've seen in other mediums.
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  You know,
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  if you're adapting a comic book,
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  a novel,
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  like the issue was never games.
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  SPEAKER_00: The issue was who was adapting the games, how they were being adapted.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you see this kind of reactive,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: approach from Hollywood every time you get a Mario,
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  SPEAKER_00: every time you get now Minecraft.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: we're lucky enough,
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  SPEAKER_00: fortunate enough that we're one of the first calls,
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  SPEAKER_00: but we also make it clear we're not,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: heat seekers.
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  We're not going to try to take a game out because Minecraft had
• 2:03
  a big weekend.
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  We're still going to bring the same level of quality that,
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  you know,
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  we always strive to do.
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  SPEAKER_01: In short, yes, it's been extreme, but not to be unexpected.
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  Hollywood is a very reactive industry and has always been,
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  will always continue to be.
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  SPEAKER_01: But look,
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  SPEAKER_01: from everyone we spoke to that worked on the movie,
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  SPEAKER_01: the filmmaker Jared Hess is fantastic.
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  The writers,
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  and there's many writers who worked on the script,
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  some credited,
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  many not.
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  SPEAKER_01: We have projects with some.
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  SPEAKER_01: We've had meetings with a lot of them.
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  And the experience that they told us throughout the last few
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  years was incredible.
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  And most importantly,
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  we heard that the game developer,
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  the game dev,
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  was amazing.
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  wildly involved throughout the process from start to finish so
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  i don't know how
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  much that's been reported but to us that's integral to knowing
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  that the odds are
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  really strong it's going to be an awesome adaptation and even
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  with the mixed set of
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  reactions to the initial game trailers once you know it like
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  the movie exceeded
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  expectations and there was a great article a few days ago about
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  the multitude of
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  records that had been broken after opening weekend i think
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  there was like two
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  SPEAKER_01: 22 or 25 broken records reported on deadline.
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  I cannot wait to see by the time the movie leaves theaters,
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  the amount of records broken.
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  I was just going to add,
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  I'm not surprised at all by the level of success.
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  I am surprised by how it happened because some of the scenes in
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  the theaters,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's extraordinary.
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  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's been called what Rocky Horror for middle schoolers,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: that sort of level of laughing,
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  SPEAKER_03: of reciting the lines and the memes,
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  SPEAKER_03: incredible stuff.
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  SPEAKER_02: But it feels like the important bit.
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  SPEAKER_02: If you get the culture of the game right,
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  SPEAKER_02: if you get the essence of the game right,
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  it didn't review very well because I suspect as a standalone
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  story to anyone coming
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  SPEAKER_02: into it,
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  SPEAKER_02: it's probably not the best film.
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  SPEAKER_02: But if you can get that sort of culture of the game right,
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  SPEAKER_02: it seems to be able to override a lot of that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
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  And also goes to the fundamental question from the reviewing
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  standpoint of the POV
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  SPEAKER_01: of the journalists.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, where are the critics coming from?
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  SPEAKER_01: Are they gamers?
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  SPEAKER_01: They have kids.
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  SPEAKER_01: They have young kids.
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  SPEAKER_01: They have old kids.
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  SPEAKER_01: Just...
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  Did they see and understand Minecraft as an intellectual
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  property and as a game
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  SPEAKER_01: franchise and as a UGC?
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  Did they understand or not understand so that they could have a
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  better holistic
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  SPEAKER_01: approach when they were putting out the reviews?
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  Because it does seem like there's quite a gap between how the
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  audiences have
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  responded and continue to respond and how the critics responded
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  like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: That did not connect, which was very interesting.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would just piggyback that.
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  This reminds me a lot of having a conversation with a film
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  studio 20 years ago.
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  You're talking to executives who came up in an era where they
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  didn't play games.
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  SPEAKER_00: So like if you brought up a video game as source material for a film,
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  SPEAKER_00: the first question would be how many copies did it sell?
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, wait, what?
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  You don't want to know about the character,
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  the world,
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  like why we're excited by it?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, because it's sold a lot doesn't mean it's good.
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  And I wonder how much of that is carrying over on that side
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  where the people who
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  SPEAKER_00: are giving these reviews don't care about games,
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  SPEAKER_00: don't play games.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: you compare that to the audience score and it's,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's night and day,
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  SPEAKER_00: especially on that one.
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  So let's talk about actually the process of getting these
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  things off the ground,
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  SPEAKER_02: getting these made.
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  What's the biggest obstacle for game studios when it comes to
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  getting these things made?
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm going to actually tee up that answer for these two.
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  This gentleman as our attorney and this gentleman as my former
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  agent for seven
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  SPEAKER_00: years and 20 years in rep before that.
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  SPEAKER_00: In short, it's I think getting the the IP deal done itself.
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  SPEAKER_00: Mm hmm.
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  I would say doing the rights deal,
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  the IP deal that Dimitri is referring,
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  is not easy.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's actually never been more difficult,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is possibly a good thing because you do not want,
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  SPEAKER_01: we don't want the game developer,
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  SPEAKER_01: the publisher,
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  SPEAKER_01: whoever holds the rights to make a raw deal,
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  to be one of those horror stories where they get Hollywood
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  smash and grab.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that is barrier to entry one.
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  SPEAKER_01: Barrier to entry two is...
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  SPEAKER_01: The connection of the dots,
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  SPEAKER_01: the Hollywood or audiovisual or,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: what the games call it,
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  TV and film linear is really centralized in Los Angeles and
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  then other metropolitan
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  SPEAKER_01: cities throughout the world.
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  SPEAKER_01: But it's Hollywood first.
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  SPEAKER_01: Games is an international global business.
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  Having the two parties meet the appropriate parties like the
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  best game with the
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  best game to the most appropriate producer or filmmaker or
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  writer or showrunner.
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  SPEAKER_01: is still challenging.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the third is Hollywood's still a tricky business.
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  From an adaptation perspective,
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  you can do a lengthy but successful rights deal.
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  You can correctly put the pieces together like the best
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  screenwriter with the best
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  SPEAKER_01: IP going the best medium.
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  SPEAKER_01: But because it's both an art and it's a business,
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  SPEAKER_01: sometimes like the business gets ahead of the art.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so it's trying to remove friction as much as you can in Hollywood,
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  just like the games industry likes to de-risk the investments
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  in the games.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
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  I've been doing this for a while and there are myriad cultural
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  differences between
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  SPEAKER_03: those two businesses.
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  And I think unless you've directly engaged in it,
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  you might underestimate.
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  SPEAKER_03: Now, I know that I did going in from a deal perspective.
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  I think it comes down philosophically to a bit of a disconnect,
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  which is to say,
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  SPEAKER_03: The default position of a Hollywood studio is always going to be,
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  SPEAKER_03: we'll take everything except what you expressly reserve,
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  SPEAKER_03: right?
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  So we're going to name the things that you're going to keep in
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  the entire tapestry of the IP.
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  SPEAKER_03: Whereas a video game company,
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  SPEAKER_03: and look,
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  this has in common with a lot of Asian companies and anime and
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  manga companies as well,
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  SPEAKER_03: they're thinking from the perspective of,
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  SPEAKER_03: well,
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  SPEAKER_03: we're licensing to you the rights to do a movie,
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  SPEAKER_03: right?
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  SPEAKER_03: You know,
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  SPEAKER_03: all these other rights,
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  SPEAKER_03: location based entertainment,
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  SPEAKER_03: merchandising,
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  SPEAKER_03: soundtrack or,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: and all these things.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so that's one of the complexities.
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  SPEAKER_03: We are getting there.
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  SPEAKER_03: The worlds are aligning.
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  SPEAKER_03: There's a legal part to that.
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  SPEAKER_03: But also there's frankly,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: these guys here to my to my left,
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  SPEAKER_03: because a lot of it comes down to trust,
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  SPEAKER_03: trust between the two worlds.
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  SPEAKER_03: And that happens on an interpersonal level.
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  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned something about Minecraft a minute ago,
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  which was the fact that the developer was involved in the
• 8:05
  making of it as well.
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  SPEAKER_02: And The Last of Us obviously has Neil Druckmann involved.
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  SPEAKER_02: Fallout had Todd Howard involved.
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  SPEAKER_02: The Mario movie was co-financed, co-produced by Nintendo itself.
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  How important is that,
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  do you think,
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  in terms of delivering the right product?
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  SPEAKER_02: But also,
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  SPEAKER_02: and how receptive is the Hollywood industries,
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  SPEAKER_02: the TV and film industries to that process?
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  SPEAKER_01: I would say, and we will say, it is mission critical.
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  SPEAKER_01: If the game's rights holder,
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  SPEAKER_01: the developer,
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  SPEAKER_01: publisher,
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  SPEAKER_01: or both,
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  SPEAKER_01: is not involved or is minimally involved,
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  SPEAKER_01: it will be to the detriment of the adaptation.
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  SPEAKER_01: One, the adaptation probably won't happen.
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  SPEAKER_01: Two, it's...
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  SPEAKER_01: worse than playing your hand in Las Vegas at the craps table.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, you need to have them involved.
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  SPEAKER_01: They need to be involved.
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  SPEAKER_01: You would be erasing the creative engine that has built these characters,
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  SPEAKER_01: these worlds,
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  SPEAKER_01: these tones,
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  SPEAKER_01: these fans.
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  SPEAKER_01: They need to be involved.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like,
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  SPEAKER_01: it is for us at Story Kitchen,
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  SPEAKER_01: for Simon as an attorney and a partner at Prior Cashman,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: it is mission critical that they're involved.
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  SPEAKER_01: And for the second part of the question,
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  SPEAKER_01: as far...
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  SPEAKER_01: Actually,
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  SPEAKER_01: I will let Dimitri answer the second part of the question.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_00: My answer is supposed to be for the second part,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I agree with Mike that,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: it is absolutely critical,
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  SPEAKER_00: but there's also an understanding that has to happen up front,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: manage expectations.
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  SPEAKER_00: We've seen when game companies have too much control,
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  SPEAKER_00: and that can also end up as bad as the original Mario movie.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's really, you know, finding that balance of...
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, giving your partner on the IP side a voice.
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  SPEAKER_00: And when we say partner,
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  SPEAKER_00: like we contractually,
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  SPEAKER_00: legally want to make them a partner on our project.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just lip service.
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  But we also have to make clear that we have to make the best
• 9:50
  film and TV possible.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that involves treating the other side like a real partner
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  SPEAKER_00: So if we do our job right on an IP to IP basis,
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  SPEAKER_00: that means marrying the right,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: writers,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: directors,
• 10:04
  the right studio so that it is a village truly working together
• 10:08
  on the same page,
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  SPEAKER_00: moving in the same direction to do the best for the project.
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  SPEAKER_01: And as far as Hollywood's reception to it,
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  SPEAKER_01: I would say when you started this 15,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: 16 years ago,
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: it was probably 75,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: 25,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: not super receptive to being respectful,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: which is why we had a lot of bad.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: 25 is too hot.
• 10:27
  A lot of horror stories from that smash and grab ask behavior
• 10:30
  from Hollywood.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would say it is 80-20,
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: 85-15 that Hollywood Studios,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: and we use that as a description for television networks,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: television studios,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: movie studios,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: independent financiers and streamers.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say it's like 85-15 that they understand.
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  SPEAKER_01: And for the ones that don't, it's really to their detriment.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we specifically do go out of our way to not work with them.
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  SPEAKER_01: It is a risk we will not take for ourselves.
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  SPEAKER_01: And more importantly, a risk we will not take for the devs.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just put a final point on that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like one of the exercises that we typically do,
• 11:01
  even before we're even close to having an agreement in place
• 11:06
  between the studio and
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  SPEAKER_00: the rights holder is we will do the upfront,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: get in there,
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  SPEAKER_00: roll the sleeves up and spend days,
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  SPEAKER_00: weeks,
• 11:14
  sometimes months to really put into paper a representation of
• 11:19
  we believe our IP is this.
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  SPEAKER_00: We believe that,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: if we're,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: let's say doing a series,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: we should touch on this.
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  and we have sign-off so the studio is not going to be surprised
• 11:30
  they know like
• 11:31
  these are the expectations from the partner um on the other
• 11:34
  side you know if we
• 11:35
  want to let's say make this character who's a female in the
• 11:39
  game now a man legally
• 11:42
  that's a conversation like you're never going to show up to a
• 11:44
  premiere and be
• 11:45
  shocked by the adaptation are there um are there any games that
• 11:49
  don't work
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to think how best to phrase it,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: but there are games that don't work or that don't work right now.
• 11:58
  And either it's because the game is still early days of what it
• 12:03
  will be as it
• 12:04
  expands via DLCs or sequels to the game or Hollywood's not in
• 12:09
  the right place to
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  SPEAKER_01: adapt it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's let's say it's animated film and it's it's adult facing.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's R-rated.
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  And this isn't really the best moment for R-rated animated film
• 12:19
  in the Hollywood marketplace.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also acknowledging both industries concurrently.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say are the biggest risks for studios and publishers?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: You've talked about one of them,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: which was about the legal,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: you end up giving all your rights away.
• 12:32
  But what are the biggest risks when it comes to game studios
• 12:34
  and game publishers
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: working with TV and film?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Please correct me if you gentlemen disagree.
• 12:38
  I would say the number one risk is losing your rights or
• 12:42
  freezing your rights or
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: having like basically your rights to the property,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: to the copyright,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: to the trademark and in certain scopes of rights.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: But anything that could take away your rights,
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  SPEAKER_01: whether it's long term or it's in perpetuity,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: that is awful.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And behind that, because you lose your rights, you lose your IP.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, you've lost the ability to
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: grow your game franchise,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: behind that would be Brand Damage,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: an adaptation that comes out and is received awfully,
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: that both the gamers and or the set of,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: a bad adaptation would be right behind the loss of rights.
• 13:19
  Interesting,
• 13:20
  because,
• 13:20
  you know,
• 13:22
  the fear after the original Mario movie...
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: specifically by Nintendo and others, was the fear of brand damage.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Without naming specific projects or names,
• 13:34
  we now have data that shows even what are maybe perceived as
• 13:38
  bad adaptations still
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: have a healthy,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: healthy bump on the game sales side.
• 13:45
  So the interpretation of of brand image,
• 13:48
  I think,
• 13:48
  needs to have a discussion around that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can you have a not great film or series that you had hoped was better,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: but see,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: 70 percent uptake and still feel like it was worth that experience?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I suppose I would just add the last would be,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: there's a little bit of opportunity cost,
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: but also distraction.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because ultimately,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: if you don't have a great game and your team gets,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:14
  distracted and pulled away from focusing on the most important
• 14:18
  thing in this entire thing,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: which is the community around the game,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: that's really a significant sort of creative and business risk.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: And on the rights piece,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:25
  you have to recognize that ultimately there's another party
• 14:28
  probably financing.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Unless you're Nintendo and you're co-financing the actual production.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: So you're going to have to give them some rights.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: But really,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: the really difficult situation is when,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: perhaps one production has been made and you can't get those rights back.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's the challenge on the right side.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: We've worked with so many studios and publishers.
• 14:46
  Is there any like a common thread where they're surprised by
• 14:48
  something when they
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: start going into this world?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: How slowly it can move,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:54
  and what I've seen from people outside of film and television
• 14:56
  in general is on the
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: deal-making side of things,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: they want to cut through.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so sometimes they'll,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: they'll try to move things more quickly,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: but you just,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: a certain process,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: and Mike,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: you can probably speak to this as an agent.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: It takes the time it'll take.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you guys can speak to the creative much better than I.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:15
  And not that it's fast and swift to make a game because we all
• 15:18
  know games could
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: take years even for the largest teams in the world to ship a game.
• 15:26
  But Hollywood definitely has a unique cadence to it where
• 15:28
  there's moments of speed
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: and then there's absolutely moments of stillness or perceived stillness.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Also, there is until the game adaptation sells.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So even putting a game adaptation creative package together is
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's working speculatively to get there.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: You sell the game as a movie.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Then the only person who is,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: there's a rights deal done,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: but then a writer is starting to write and he,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: she,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: or they is paid to write.
• 15:56
  Everyone else is waiting and hoping for the solid script to
• 15:58
  come in to jump in and give notes.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, it's a very...
• 16:03
  individualize creative process initially until you get into
• 16:07
  pre-production on the linear side.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And once you get into pre-production,
• 16:10
  that's where it goes from one or two or six people working on
• 16:12
  the adaptation to 50
• 16:14
  or 250 or 500 people on the game side going from your game
• 16:20
  documents to your...
• 16:23
  vertical slice you kind of have a creative ramp up and you
• 16:26
  could see what's
• 16:27
  happening moving forward so linear does have like a a more
• 16:31
  unique direction until
• 16:33
  you are greenlit towards production yeah yeah you agree i'll
• 16:36
  ask one final question
• 16:37
  because i appreciate we're short on time but what advice would
• 16:40
  you give to game
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: companies looking into moving into film and tv
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I would say obviously for things we love,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: we want it all,
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: but we understand that that's just not possible.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not enough hours in the day and we may not be right for everything.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: What we do beg them of and we offer, it's not us, that's A-OK.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let us be your free consultant on,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: at the very least,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: who the people are you can trust in this business.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sadly,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: it is a heat seeking business where you have,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:13
  producers chasing game rights now who have never touched a game
• 17:17
  controller in their life.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want those people trying to adapt games.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: We know it's a very small village.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: We just saw one on stage,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Carter Swan,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: like who we know,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: like play games,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: love games,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: like have a passion for them.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that the entire village needs to, you know, have that.
• 17:36
  You know,
• 17:36
  we've had some of the best writers in our project who don't
• 17:38
  play games.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they bring a different side of it.
• 17:41
  But,
• 17:41
  you know,
• 17:42
  kind of the people shepherding the project,
• 17:44
  you want to have that respect.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I would also say,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: have a person or a firm like Simon and his who can,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: going back to Mike's point,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: your rights.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 17:57
  there's nothing more important than you keeping your rights
• 18:02
  from this thing that you've,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes spent years and sometimes your own money on.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: We obviously value the film and TV side of it,
• 18:11
  but that's like our tiny piece and this incredible thing that
• 18:15
  you've been building.
• 18:16
  It's important that you that we help you protect the main,
• 18:20
  you know,
• 18:20
  the main core thing.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would just add on that, and that was great.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, it's an amazing moment to do it.
• 18:28
  We've never had a better moment to potentially adapt your game
• 18:32
  into TV or film.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are intrigued or excited or steadfast,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: like that is the direction you want to go,
• 18:37
  you 100% should kick the tires and should be incredibly
• 18:41
  inquisitive to explore how
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: that would look.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: As Dimitri said a moment ago, having representation, having...
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Guidance to protect you is paramount.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot and do not want to get into a situation,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: get into a legal situation where you're putting your game,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: your team,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: your baby at risk.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Beyond that, being ready to and be curious.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be asking questions.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be doing your own research and you want to prep.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: You want to make sure you have the time to allot to it,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: especially for those initial conversations and explorations.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: You have materials to share.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know where your press kit are.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You build your own press kit.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: You have your character Bibles ready to go.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: You have materials ready to go,
• 19:22
  especially if you haven't yet shipped the game or if you've
• 19:26
  shipped the game,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: but you are an indie dev and you don't have a team and it's just you,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: like really building out the different type of materials around the game.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because in addition to being able to play the game,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: for Hollywood to communicate, what can we look at?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: What can we read?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: What can we digest?
• 19:42
  So I would say doing your research,
• 19:44
  doing your homework and fully preparing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I would say don't feel pressured.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think this is going away.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that this is a fad.
• 19:53
  I think that this is where all of the emotionally resonant IP
• 19:57
  is coming from.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we've just watched the screenplay conference.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: And what's clear is that in various territories,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: including in Europe,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: there's a commitment to this.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think there are going to be more and more opportunities.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with representation.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: Ask questions and just trust your gut.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's my feeling.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Trust your gut.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds to me like trust is really important.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I guess those horror stories of somebody coming in,
• 20:24
  you're doing a deal with someone that may not have had your
• 20:26
  best interest in heart
• 20:28
  and doing something that's potentially damaging to that studio
• 20:31
  would ultimately
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: reflect badly on this whole movement and I guess on the whole sector,
• 20:36
  which is why that's so important to you as well as it is
• 20:39
  important to the studios themselves.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Spot on.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Trust is imperative.
• 20:43
  Trusting everyone you're working with and trying to understand
• 20:45
  and earn that trust.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: As this movement couldn't be more exciting,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: but we recognize that a handful of bad things can occur.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not dissimilar to...
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that bad things have occurred,
• 20:58
  but we've seen the rise of comic book adaptations and then the
• 21:03
  mild decline since.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously...
• 21:07
  Adapting graphic novels and comics is different from adapting
• 21:10
  video games.
• 21:10
  But in general,
• 21:11
  like this is a big business decision as well as a creative decision.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And from an artist driven industry to another artist driven industry,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: the business sectors operate differently.
• 21:21
  So having people around you trust or starting to meet new
• 21:25
  people and going crawl,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: walk,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: run to build trust will net the best potential results.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to say,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: we're all professionally motivated here,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: but I have another motivation,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: which is as a,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: personally,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: and as a consumer and as an audience member,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe that we live in an era of movies of Mario,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Sonic,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: The Last of Us series,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: Fallout series.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to see them continue and be good.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: it gives me,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to be there for The Last of Us,
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: lights off,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: sitting in my room,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: full focus,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: which I rarely do now with a television series.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: So that's all I want, really.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: and I'll just say,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 22:02
  I could not yet see the Minecraft movie because I promised my
• 22:06
  nine year old twins
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: that I would wait until I was back in California to take them together.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Two thirds of my kids wardrobe is Minecraft.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like for the Goldberg family, Minecraft is paramount.
• 22:16
  And that type of fandom that we get to play the games together
• 22:20
  on their iPads,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: on my iPad,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: they get to wear it to school.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And now we get to go see the movie together like that's extraordinary.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when I go back to what you said about trust,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: because when I,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: if I do a talk on a stage or if I'm just talking to someone,
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: that is probably the single thing that I am proudest of.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because end of the day, the money, that shit doesn't matter.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the humans and the people who you work with.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: a relationship that started on a,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: less than 48 hour trip to Japan,
• 22:59
  meeting Toru Nakahara at Sega has now become a friendship and a
• 23:04
  friendship that has
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: led to
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: uh, a fortunate opportunity to do multiple adaptations with Sega.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And to Simon's point,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: as a like 12 year old kid,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had a dream of making a street slave rage movie.
• 23:18
  Like my mom asked me a couple of weeks ago and I had never
• 23:21
  thought about it.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like what, when did you decide you wanted to take games into film and TV?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh,
• 23:25
  It was the first time anyone had asked me that,
• 23:27
  and I thought about it,
• 23:28
  and I had an answer.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was Streets of Rage.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Streets of Rage 2, specifically.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: That soundtrack.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, the story.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is going to be a movie, and I'm going to make it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that a friendship...
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: that started so many years ago has led to a place where we,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: are developing a Streets of Rage movie at Lions.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that was all off of trust and friendship.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we have multiple,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: publisher,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: developer relationships like that where we're not just doing a one-off,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hazelight.
• 23:58
  We're fortunate to be working with them on several of their
• 24:02
  games right now.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's trust.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's friendship.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's that belief that we're at the very least,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: because it's fucking hard to get film and TV made,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: but at the very least,
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: they know we're going to do everything we can to try.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's no guarantee it's going to happen,
• 24:17
  but we will definitely lose sleep to try to make that happen
• 24:21
  and do it with the
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: highest integrity.
• 24:23
  Before you reveal what films you're working on with Hayes,
• 24:26
  I will end the interview there.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Dimitri, Mike and Simon, for your time.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Chris.