Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Amy Coney Barrett Threats, Supreme Court Security, New York's AI Data Center Ban & the Return of Cigarettes

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Normally Podcast: Amy Coney Barrett Threats, Supreme Court Security, New York's AI Data Center Ban & the Return of Cigarettes · Normally

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, we are back on normally the show with
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: normal it takes for when the news gets weird.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I am Mary Catherine Ham and I'm Carol Markowitz. Mary Catherine.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going on vacation. I'm very excited about that. I
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: know and give you by yourself, but I gotta go.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I I you raise the bar so much for
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: guest hosting and putting together great shows, you know, I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: gotta I gotta meet up with it.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta find some good guest hosts. But I
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: believe in you and I think you will, you know,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: do a great job with in my absence.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for your vacation, so enjoy I'm actually going
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to North Wisconsin to do do a speech, but it's
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: at a cool resort, so I'm gonna extend my stay
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: a little bit and hang out up there and just
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: enjoy the mild weather as opposed to where I live.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, that's awesome. I have never been
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: to Wisconsin. It's gonna have to get on that list.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: To mark it off.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Girl. Alrighty, okay, what is going on in the news.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: What's happening?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Will the Supreme Court justices went up to the Hill
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this week to speak in front of a congressional gathering
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: about security for skudas judges.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: They discussed for fourteen million dollar increase in security funding
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: and to just discuss the Court's overall budget.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Right, And it turns out, you know that funding is necessary, guys,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: because the climate in which the Supreme Court justices operate
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: has become more and more hostile. And you'll remember, as
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: we talked about on this show, the plot against Kavanaugh's
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: life that was luckily disrupted, there have been numerous other threats.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Amy Cony Barrett was swatted several weeks ago with a
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: false call about gunshots on her prot She spoke at
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: this hearing about the tolls that that takes on a family,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So we'll hear a little bit from her about what
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: that looks like in her house.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: They have required me, to my children to think about
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: and see things that children should not have to see
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: or think about. One example is when threats to my
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: life were particularly intense a few years ago, around the
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: time of the dobs Leek, my security detail sent me
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: home with a bulletproof vest and I carried it into
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: my house, put it into my bedroom, dropped it down
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: on a table, turned around, and my twelve year old
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: son was standing in the doorway of my bedroom and
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: he wanted to know what it was and why I
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: had it. And I didn't know how to respond, because
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: maybe I lack imagination, but I didn't expect that performing
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: this service was going to put me in the position
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: of explaining to my children what a bulletproof vest was
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: and why I had to wear one. It's also been
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: reported in the news that roughly six weeks ago, I
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: was the victim of a swatting incident. At that point,
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: my teenage son, one of my teenage sons, opened the
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: door to go out with friends and saw in our
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: street it was full of police cars who had responded
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: to a false report of gunshots and raised voices in
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: my home. I was very, very grateful that I had
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court police outside my home because they were able
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: to stop and meet with and explain to the County
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: police that it had been a false alarm, and so
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: the police did not actually attempt to enter our home.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Many of us, me included, have received threatening, anonymous deliveries
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: designed to intimidate and harass us. They are often sent
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: in the name of Judge Sallas's son, who I think,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: as you mentioned in the beginning, mister Chairman was is
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: deceased because he was killed by a disgruntled lawyer who
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: showed up at Judge Sallas's home intending to kill her,
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: but her son, twenty years old at the time, opened
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: the door and took the bullet instead. Her husband standing
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: behind was seriously injured. So I think the message on
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: these deliveries being sent in his name is clear, as
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: Justice Kagan said, frederal judges across the country throughout the judiciary,
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: including the Supreme Court, continue to do their jobs without
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: fear or favor. But the threat level is really high.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: You don't ever want to have your kids be afraid
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: and think that something is going to happen to mommy.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: And that's you know, a big part of it here
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: is that she has small children. I'm sure it's a
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: giant concern. I think I hear a lot of like
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: you know, Clarence Thomason's scared. He doesn't have small kids
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: in the home, and I think that really does make
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: a big difference. But the thing is they're all under
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: assault and it's a real problem. It's become something that
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: is just ignored largely that our public officials and people
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: who get into public life are routinely threatened and have
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: you know, real death threats directed at them. And it
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: hasn't even been a year since Charlie Kirk was murdered.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Being in the public eye speaking out, taking a positions
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: that people that might not like is a scary thing
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: to do right now. And you know, I was thinking
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: about this. There was a clip of Schumer from a
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: few years ago, I think it was right around the
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Dabbs decision where he named checks, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: says they've released the whirlwind and they will pay the price.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: How is that an okay thing to say? And how
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: come nobody talks about that. That's like a threat? Well,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: you can't what did he mean? He was gonna, you know,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: not re elect them? The No, there's only one way
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to deal with Supreme Court justices reaping the whirlwind and
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: paying the price. And that's not going to be an
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: election and it's not going to be forcing the resignation
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: or anything like that. I don't understand how stuff like
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: that became okay to say.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: The truth is that there's a not small and not
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: particularly extreme like pretty accepted part of the left constituency
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: who is aligned against what they see as an ill
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: legitimate conservative court and views threats of political violence and
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: actual political violence as a utilitarian way to mess with them,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to terrorize them, to hopefully make punish them for decisions
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: that they have made, perhaps influence decisions.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And it's not as if the folks who advocate this
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: point of view are subtle about us right.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: There saying it's to influence them.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very clear about it. And I appreciate all
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: of the justices for taking on this job, which does
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: come with significant threats. Unfortunately, it should not be the
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: price of admission, and if it is, it will discourage
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: many in the future, very good people from taking taking
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: these kinds of jobs. You have to you have to
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: be really strong, you have to be very unafraid to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: take this on, and to any extent that we can
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: protect them, we should because we want their real, unfiltered
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: decisions put before the public.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: And not under some sort of weird threat.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I also would note I think one of the ways
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: to deal with this with swatting and threats is if
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: they're really legally actionable, perhaps we need to be doing
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: more thorough investigations and raising the punishment because law enforcement
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: talks about this when armed bank robbery hit its peak
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: in like the eighties and nineties, it's come down like
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: eighty seven percent since then. And there's a couple things
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: that happened. One technology makes it easier to catch these folks.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: To the federal sentencing guidelines meant that everyone who was
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: caught and convicted got at least a ten year sentence,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and three.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Armed bank robbers are always prosecuted.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: So I think a combination of those things might be
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: helpful for death threats against public officials, particularly federal ones,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: because then you could federalize that crime absolutely.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: And the swatting stuff, it's meant to cause violence. You
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: can't look at it as an inconvenient somebody called a
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: pizza delivery to your house, like that's annoying it. It's
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: not right. It's it's meant to have police come in armed,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: ready to face some sort of hostage situation or something inside.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Everybody's on high alert. It's not a joke, and it
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: needs to be treated far, far more seriously. What I
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: really don't like is, and I saw this from conservatives too,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: which was that Amy Cony Barrett's just stepped down if
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: she's afraid, and I don't understand how that's an acceptable
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: answer to this, Like her life is being threatened, therefore
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: she should resign because you don't think the next person's
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: life will be threatened. And what you don't think they'll
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: be afraid because they're a man, maybe, like men are
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: just as afraid as women of being murdered. It's a
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: whole thing.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: That's the whole thing is this is a horseshoe, right.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: This is the left thinking that it's utilitarian to terrorize
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: people in this manner, and then the right taking the
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: abuse of these people and turning it into a cudgel
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: against them, like she's merely stating facts. She didn't seem
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: afraid in that clip, by the way, she was regretful
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: that this happens to her family, as she should be.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: She thinks it's a travesty, as she should But her
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: pointing out that this is happening to her and that
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: it is objectionable is not disqualifying from the bench, And
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: if it is, you are incentivizing the abuse of her absolutely.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And the other thing is is that she was there
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: to request an increase in security funding. It's not like
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: she decided to go off on a tangent about how
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: afraid she is and how the threats that she gets.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: And I feel like when you see a clip on
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: the internet, sometimes you don't have the background for that.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's why these accounts are commenting like, oh, she
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: should step down if she's afraid. Like she's again not
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: telling us about her fear out of nowhere. She's saying
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I'm afraid because I get threats and we need an
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: increase in security funding. It's also, you know, it makes sense.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Libs do this people who live in cities all the time,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: like oh, if you can't take the don't ride the subway.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And it's like, no, we don't have to live that way.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: There are tools we can use to discourage this kind
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: of thing, and we should.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, But you know, I get very sensitive about that
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: in New York in particular, because we had a number
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: of years where it wasn't a standard thing to have
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: a homeless guy pooping on your subway car, like it
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: was normal and safe and clean, and then they reverted
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: back to form to get leftist policies through. So it
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be this way. Our Supreme Court justices
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: weren't always under threat. We didn't always need two hundred
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: plus million dollars of security funding for them, but we
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: do now because things are out of control. Yep.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: And I do think one of the reasons it's not
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: readily identified and talked about more often and bemoaned is
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: because this is a conservative court's right and therefore the
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: violence and the threats thereof are coming largely from the left,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: and then the justification thereof coming from the right. Let's
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: not this is you know, or the political weaponization of
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: the threats is being used by those on the right
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: who are upset with Amy Coney Barrett, which again I
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: just recommend Sarah Isker's book about the Court Last Branch Standing,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: because it does help for those who get mad about
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: an individual decision to understand what the alignments in the
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: court look like and how they're different and charged by
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: different intellectual paths than you would expect all the time.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: It's not this six' three situation, constantly they have different,
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: philosophies and simplifying it doesn't help you when you're discussing
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: These oversimplifying doesn't help you in this. Situation so we have.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: A political story political violence story out Of britain that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: yes highlighted what's going on over.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: There So Anne whittacombe's seventy eight year old former politician
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: in THE. Uk she was in The Conservative party at
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: one point and Then REFORM. Uk she was a Big
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: brexit voice and anti unlimited immigration, voice socially. Conservative she
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: later became a REALITY tv contestant in THE, uk so very,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: famous and she was found Dead thursday in her home
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: at the edge Of Dartmore National park in Southwest, england
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: after sustaining what police said were serious. INJURIES i think
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: she was beaten and this is interesting obviously because she's
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a bit of a firebrand and initially the local police were,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: like there's no chance this is.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Political moving, on.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: They now have a suspect in custody and the More
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: National Force terrorism specific has taken over this. Case so
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that suggests that there actually is what one might have
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: assumed from the beginning there would, be which is a
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: political terrorism part of. This and some have speculated that
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: whoever went after her thoughts she was more vulnerable as
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a former person and a party as opposed to a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: current because of what she would have less, security who
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: are currently in charge Now, farag and SO i.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: Just this speaks.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Too we'll see what comes out of, it but it
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: speaks to even with a really famous person In britain
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: who it's pretty obvious that this might be in the
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: mix and it might be political, violence the extent to
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: which local police will just be, like, nah that's not
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: what you obviously see with your.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Eyeballs that doesn't help you change this problem at.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: All, right when they say, terrorism my mind goes to foreign.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Terrorism do they have any idea yet who that?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Is they are not releasing a ton of information about
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: this twenty six year old suspect as of, now BUT
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: i think that the force involved deals with terrorism as
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: in politically motivated crimes in addition to domestic and.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Foreign All, right we'll stay on top of that and
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: see what happens With whittacomb's. Killer we're going to take
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: a short break and be right back with more On.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Normally we are back On, normally Where New york has
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: become the first state to ban new data. Centers and
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: we were talking in the last segment about the. Horseshoe
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: this is sort of another horseshoe issue where the idea
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: that we should ban data centers is very very popular
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: on the far left and on the far, right and
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: as we're recording, This trump has actually released a truth
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: social coming out against this, move By hochel saying one
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: of the biggest driving forces in the future for jobs
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: or data. Centers they are, big, strong, bold and money
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: machines for the state in which they are. Built Governor Kathy,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: holckle for political, reasons has terminated all data centers being
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: built or to be built In New York. State he
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: goes on that these companies are now being sought In, Alabama, Florida, Texas,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: arizona and many other. States both the taxes and the
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: jobs amount to liquid. Gold New York state has made
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: a terrible. Decision all this income and other benefits will
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: be going to red states and some blue where data
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: centers are sought as cash cows with lower taxes and
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: record setting. JOBS i, mean on and. On but the
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: thing is he also says that they must pay their
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: own water and, power because that's become the kind of
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: the rumor here that, oh they steal all the water
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: from the local, area and, like, well, no they're going
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: to be paying for their own water and power and
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: often they don't take up more water power than an office.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Park so it's a really bad. Idea it is it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Does he mentioned it seeds all this incredible new technology To.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: China that's exactly the point THAT i think he should be.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Making if we're not building data centers and staying up ON,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: ai Then china.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Will, YEAH i think the populist messaging that these.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Guys first of, all everybody has concerns ABOUT, ai And
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: i'm among, them BUT i also recognize that this brand
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: new technology that, offers in addition to creative destruction in
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: ways that it will affect our lives in some short
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: term negative, ways it also creates the opportunity for economic
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: development in incredible.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Ways so it's not just a it's not a net.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: NEGATIVE i have, concerns BUT i think people have really
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: gotten whipped up by a very simple, message which is
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: they are hogs of all the things that we. Need
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: they're stealing the, electricity they're stealing the. WATER i do
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: think they should partly be responsible for bolstering electric, grids
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: because that's some of the rehab that we need in
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of places where these things are being. PUT
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: i think that we have to compete with The chinese on,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: this and to stop your state or your country from
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: doing so is a. Mistake and then when it comes
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: to the water stuff in, PARTICULAR i tracked this down
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and it originates from a paper done in twenty twenty.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Three so even the author of the paper has, said,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: hey there's actually adjustments now because they're more. Efficient and
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: what the paper did was put in very journalist friendly
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: terms the amount of water being, used and they basically
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: said it's a bottle of water per inquiry In. Ai
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: well that's not really, true as you might, imagine and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: even he at this, point the guy who came up
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: with is like a.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: It's more like a fifteen milliliters per fifty.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Inquiries so it's one of those that just sort of
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: took off because it was a very useful way of expressing.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: This but useful and simple does not mean. True and
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: so these places are taking up a lot less water
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: than something like nut, farming for, instance which far eclipses
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the use of water from data. Centers SO i think
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: it's just important to keep that. Perspective it feels a bit,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: like because this is the left right populism horseshoe situation
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: that some of it may be foreign, influenced AND i
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: think there's some that's.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: It it's like you want to see the psychop it's
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: always where they, meet and that's where Our china And
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: russia are getting their money's.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Worth and there is some research behind that if you
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: look to where the money is coming from to fund
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: the local campaigns against data.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: CENTERS i want to be wary of land use and.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: All that, stuff BUT i THINK i do Think Blue
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: states are once again putting themselves in a situation where
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: they're not going to have a part of this really
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: beneficial economic activity that's going to go to other.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Places.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Right it reminds me actually of nuclear power plants and
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: How New york was so proud of itself for closing
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: their nuclear power plant and now every time they have
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: a heat wave they are like, whoa, whoa, whoa everybody
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: stop using the air. Conditioner, Yes and they did have
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: blackouts and brownouts during this last heat wave they, had
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and if they had nuclear power to rely, on this
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be. Happening and they were talked into shutting down
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: that plant by exactly the same kind of you, know
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: foreign influence operations that get into the far left and
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: make them portray normal things as.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Bad, yeah so just like keep it in.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Perspective, guys the amount of water used is also comparable
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: to or less than golf, courses and we're.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Getting somewhere, CORN i, mean BUT i don't want to
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: start that if you're running for president AND.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: I never talk about, corn but, yeah corn is, Faultless.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Carol we need all the.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: CORN i don't want people falling for. IT i. Have
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: you can have the concerns and about electricity for, example
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: or just about eye soreness or that kind of, thing
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: all acceptable things to be concerned, about and not want
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: it in your. Backyard AND i get that there's a
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: lot of THINGS i don't want in my, Backyard SO
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: i understand that, impulse but just don't fall For we
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be building any new data centers Like Kathy holkle
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: clearly fell for, it or is catering to that far
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: left flank that she continues to need and she's not
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: quite sure how to adjust, to.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Or is just pausing so that she can get a
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: bunch of corporate payouts to give them what they. Want
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: like that's the other, Thing like we don't need to subsidize,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: it BUT i would not like to in. It and
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: there's also research that suggests electricity, prices by the, way
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: are far more affected not by this relatively modest water consuming.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Industry but by regulatory structures in your. State no, Way so,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: yeah that's what.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Happens SO i would imagine, that you, know she might
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: be planning some regulatory capture of her own up In New.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: York so, anyway keep your eyes, open be be careful
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: with the, data because, man they really try to stack
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the deck on these. Things and if everybody starts screaming one,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Thing i'm, like let, me let me dig a little
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: bit on.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: This that's.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Right we're going to take a short break and be
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: right back with more on.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Normally all, right we are back On normally with a
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: story close to Both carols And My, hearts which is
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: it's entitled cigarettes Are back In? Vogue how did this?
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Happen AND i love the. Opening Delia kai remembers everything
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: about her first. Cigarette she and a friend were dining out,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: door warm, air beautiful. Night there was a sense of
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: we survived this really terrifying pandemic where we all thought
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: about death a. Lot her friend offered her a cigarette
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: And kai couldn't find a reason to say, no and said,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: quote it was unfortunately. PERFECT i was, like, OOH i
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: get it.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Right nobody smoked because it was, bad you don't. Know,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: yeah it was like full and. DELICIOUS i frankly can't
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: imagine having a cigarette right, now but we did enjoy
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: that quite a bit in our.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Youth So carol AND i were.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Social we were social cigarette buddies back in the, day.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Regular, smokers, right which was part of the appeal for, us,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: right had we become, addicted that would have been less
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: fun very. Quickly, Actually so in you, know the nineteen
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: hundreds When, Mary catherine AND i, met actually we didn't
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: we met after we met after nine to. Eleven, so
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: but in the in those early, days a long time,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: ago the thing was that there was this thinking that
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: if you smoked a little, bit you were definitely going
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: to become. Addicted AND i think it was, freakonomics or
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: maybe it Was gladwell who did a whole thing on
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: most people can't not become addicted to, cigarettes but some
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: people did it, successfully like me and, You and it
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: was so it was. Fun it wasn't this big. Problem
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: it wasn't something terrible Because we only did it, occasionally
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: but it became bad for a lot of people and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: it lost its. Coolness for. Sure we weren't allowed to
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: smoke indoors. Anymore that used to be a thing that
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: everybody did. Everywhere imagine, it kids smoking everywhere in. Malls
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Waffle house was like the last place to hold on to.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: It, No When North carolina Waffle house finally said no,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: SMOKING i was, like, well that's that's the end of, that.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: RIGHT i REMEMBER i already wasn't, smoking like with any
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: regularity at, all BUT i. WAS i was In West
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: virginia and the waffle house allowed, it AND i was, like,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: WELL i have to go across the street to the
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: gas station to get.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So so smoking is obviously extremely bad for.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: YOU i come from a tobacco. TOWN i lived In North.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Carolina but there's this interesting thing that's happening where because
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the smoking cessation campaigns and the public health campaigns were so.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Successful, yeah people.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Now view smoking versus, vaping which they find sort of
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: antiseptic and uncool looking. Cool smoking cigarettes is viewed as
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: like a bad habit from the good old. Days is
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: what this case, says where it has nineties nostalgia AND
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: i dare you to find somebody like looking cooler than
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: like several generations Ago hollywood stars with cigarettes hanging from their.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: LIPS i, mean it's just, Right it's.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Indisputable Pete, Moss Brad pitt like walking Around Johnny.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Depp, yes so people because they are nostalgic for the,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: nineties and young people who didn't experience the nineties.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Are somewhat nostalgic for.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: It this is their way, of perhaps in a more
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: anti alcohol environment to.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Go this is my little rebellion.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: So, well hand in, hand, Kid.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: It's. True it's. TRUE i was.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: SURPRISED i saw some celebrity wedding and NOW i can't
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: remember which one.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: It, was.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Where they had a picture in their photo dump of
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the wedding of cigarettes laid out for people at the after,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: party AND i, thought oh my, gosh this is coming
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: from a different. Place this piece Notes Kylie jenner lit
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: a cigarette on Her March Vanity fair. Cover Hailey bieber
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: has a cigarette sticking out of her. Smile In April's interview.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Magazine he did Rivalries connor's story posing with a cigarette
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: perched in his pouch while prepping for the Met. Gala IN,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: gq which that does seem like a bit of a sea.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: CHANGE i, mean this has been happened an anti smoking
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: nation for quite some.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: Time this has looking Like.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Europe they are actually all still smoking In. Europe when
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: we went To france last, summer my kids were, like
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: what the hell's going? On and then when we came,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: back my ten year old saw somebody smoking and he was,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: like smoking In.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Florida, YEAH i like, YOU i can't even imagine having
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: a cigarette right. Now that's Like i'm past that.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Point in my.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Life but here's WHAT i will, say in every Major american,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: city IF i smelled cigarette smoke instead of, Weed.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: I'd be a happy, lady right, right be a much happier.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Lady AND i think also cigarette smoking being banned is
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: one of those things that from a libertarian, PERSPECTIVE i was,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: like that's. Bad these businesses should be able to decide
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: if they want cigarettes. Indoors and then in practice it
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: was so nice to come home and smell, normal right.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah that was. TOUGH i also thought, like, oh
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you guys can't ban. CIGARETTES i also thought like their
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: businesses would really suffer because of, It like who go
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: to bar if.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: You can't smoke a.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Cigarette but what ended up happening was everybody cool went
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: outside and had their own thing going. On you, know
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: it was a good.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Time, also there is a lot to be, said AND
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: i Know i've mentioned this about drinking before and that
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: reason piece about how it leads to creative thinking and
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: all these social bonds.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: That you don't get.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Otherwise there is something to be said for that bond,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: created whether you're in a newsroom or a group of,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: friends by two people going out and, saying, oh we've
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: got this thing to do together while we have a
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: little chat about the.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Universe that's.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Right that Was we had a good time doing.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: That, also my kids should never do. It so if
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: any kids.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Are listening to, this never. Smoke i'll make you smoke
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: the whole.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Pack oh that is What that was the old school
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: remedy for.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: That. Yeah, yeah but now it's, like you, know if
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: you catch them, vaping what are you gonna? Do make
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the smoke the whole.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Babe, YEAH i don't think it works the.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Same thanks for joining us on normally normally Airs tuesdays And,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: thursdays and you could subscribe anywhere you get your. Podcasts
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: get in touch with us at normally theepod at gmail dot.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Com thanks for listening and when things get weird act
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: normally