Latest / Identity at the Center / #153 - ISACA State of Cybersecurity 2022

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#153 - ISACA State of Cybersecurity 2022 · Identity at the Center

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You're listening to the identity of the center podcast.
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This is a show that talks about identity and access management
0:15
and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
0:18
started. Happy birthday to.
0:26
You may good luck. Go with you.
0:40
Welcome to the identity of the sender podcast I'm Jeff.
0:42
And that's Jim. Hey Jim.
0:43
Hey Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself.
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I'm doing great man. This is July 1st.
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This is true. Dedication us According to this
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podcast today since we both had off from work is 5 p.m. most
1:00
people are having you know, at least their first beer of the
1:04
day, the celebration of it being Friday, but you and I were here
1:10
recording a podcast. Yeah.
1:12
Oh, we just spent the last like 90 minutes catching up because
1:14
it's been a while for us to have any sort of substantive
1:17
conversation. But yes, we are scrambling at
1:21
the last minute yet again, to get it up as So doubt for next
1:25
week, it is July 1st, it is 5 p.m. eastern time.
1:29
I will be editing this over the weekend as I build furniture and
1:33
desks and things like that. So I'm on a makeshift sort of
1:38
podcast center here. That is absolutely not the way.
1:43
It should be happening but it is the way it is.
1:46
Yeah. I gotta say who I'm also glad
1:48
that you now live in these serums dealt a daylight or
1:53
Eastern Standard Time. Along with me and not that are
1:56
time zones any better than any other time zone.
1:58
But since we're in the same time zone the there's not going to be
2:02
confusion on what time do you mean?
2:05
Yeah. No.
2:06
More math when it comes no more mass, which is nice.
2:10
That's for sure. So, yes I have.
2:11
Could I have officially moved to North Carolina, which is great.
2:15
I met my first black bear today in my yard.
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So that's something that I didn't have to worry about the
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Chicago area. But yeah, I woke up this morning
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to the Dogs out. And then just happen to notice a
2:27
black bear out my window. And yeah, so that's North
2:31
Carolina things. Yeah, you showed me that the
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pick the video from your camera. I mean, it's, you should try to
2:41
find some way. Maybe post that on to our our
2:45
YouTube channel or something so people can see like this little
2:48
legit bear. This isn't like a, you know, a
2:51
teddy bear. Yeah, I guess that's a It seems
2:54
like it's still a cub age. I guess is what people around
2:57
here, describe it. So it's not a adult by far but a
3:02
bear is a bear and the first time that I guess that you come
3:06
that close to one in the wild is an interesting experience for us
3:09
Northerners. So yeah, it was interesting.
3:13
Well if Bear show like people you know the Adolescent years
3:16
are usually the most trying but for what I understand with bears
3:21
like the last thing you want to do is get the Between a mother
3:24
and her cub. Yep, that's when even a black
3:28
bear could attack you. So, yeah, there's a little bit
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of advice for you. Jeff.
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Yeah, my plan is to not is to let it let it do its thing stay
3:36
away. I think, once we get the dogs
3:38
outside, they will probably help with that with barking and
3:43
things like that. I don't think, you know, most
3:45
most Bears. I understand it are not looking
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for a fight. So hopefully we will keep the
3:49
peace around here and make sure the garbage gets locked up
3:53
tight. So that Don't have any issues.
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Yeah, right. Exactly.
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Yeah. You gotta be yet to be defensive
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of your garbage. Yeah, I guess they like chicken
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and it was in our yard as well because my wife hung a bird
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feeder and I'm like I'm watching out the window right now.
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Squirrels are kind of playing underneath it so it's like seeds
4:11
stuff like that but she put peanuts up on it and I guess the
4:13
bear was interested in that so there is one of the shots of the
4:16
videos of zit reaching up trying to get to the to this to this
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bird feeder. This just out of this route of
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its reach before it kind of Mosey Down about but live on the
4:26
side of a hill in the middle of sort of like a forest and that's
4:30
just something we're gonna have to deal with.
4:31
So it is what it is. Well, you mentioned that, they
4:34
like chicken so and you know, we talked earlier you mentioned
4:37
that you found the fast-food chain Bojangles.
4:40
So yeah, challenge to you would be go get a bag of fried chicken
4:43
from Bojangles and leave it on your porch, tribute.
4:47
You want to see the bear? Again, it's tribute for the
4:50
bear. We gotta come up with a name for
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the bear. I guess if it's going to be
4:53
coming around. So we can just call it bare.
4:56
Gotta Have a good name. Kyrie any idea.
4:58
Harry the bear. He's very hairy.
5:01
Yeah, it is. But also I'll talk about.
5:08
Well, if kind of feels like, you know, we got both of us have so
5:13
many life changes going on, but the one thing that is a staple
5:19
in our lives. I guess I can mostly speak for
5:22
myself, but you know, we make sure we get an episode out every
5:25
week, right? Yep.
5:26
We've been doing that for a long time about how long would you
5:29
say it's been today as our third birthday?
5:33
So technically I think we launched on like July 2nd July
5:37
1st. So we're calling this our third
5:39
birthday episode as as it is. But yeah, it's this would be
5:43
episode 153 over three years which means really a virgin man.
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Yeah, 50 50, a year, This is basically what a week.
5:51
So, and then some so yeah, I guess congratulations to us.
5:56
Yeah, good job Jeff. Yeah.
5:59
So yeah, we're well, we'll keep it going.
6:02
I think now that I've settled in my new spot or at least starting
6:04
to hopefully, have a desk, the next time that we record will be
6:09
able to start getting back into the groove with guess.
6:11
I know we've been talking to a few different people and trying
6:14
to get things lined up. I know that the episode that we
6:16
recently did to around asking people, you know what is Their
6:20
definition of the difference between digital identity and
6:24
access management got it took hold out.
6:27
There was kind of interesting to kind of hear some of the
6:29
responses that we got both when were recording it from some of
6:32
the folks that since stuff in. But also that after the fact
6:35
people who listen to the episode and sentence stuff.
6:38
So so our guy for identity sent in a couple things.
6:42
He sent one here where he and I were talking over LinkedIn.
6:44
He sent me a 2 minute recording of what he thought.
6:49
The definition was between the Will be for he listens the
6:52
episode and then he listened to the episode and then he sent
6:55
back a four-minute thing and we've got that queued up.
6:58
We're probably not going to play it on this episode.
7:00
What we, I think Jim. What you and I are thinking
7:01
about is there were a couple people that wanted to submit
7:04
last time that didn't get it in, under deadline for us.
7:07
So maybe we might do like a part two and I think that's probably
7:09
the perfect opportunity then play to play Alex take on it,
7:13
which I thought was interesting, and I feel like that's just not
7:17
to tease it, but I think at the, where he ended up was where I
7:19
ended up as well. Well, from a definition
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standpoint, what? Well yeah, it was really
7:23
interesting things. Worse for those to know Alec
7:27
from our past episodes or elsewhere immediate.
7:29
He's an Aussie. So his perspective is that if
7:34
somebody who is from Australia or, you know, is funny like I
7:38
was. So we're going to talk about
7:39
this isaca stages Securities report and they broke some
7:45
things down by geography and they referred to Australia,
7:50
which I guess. Australia, New Zealand and maybe
7:52
some other places around there as Oceanic.
7:57
Yep. Yeah, that's how I think is
7:59
Oceania. That that area.
8:00
Is that the first time you've heard that term?
8:02
No, no, I've heard that term. But not very often and I don't
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even know if I'm pronouncing it properly.
8:09
I, I say it Oceania, but I'm sure somebody will correct me.
8:15
The haters will come out in full force of for not pronouncing it,
8:17
right. But we mean all with its with
8:19
all due respect rate but yeah it was it was interesting II.
8:23
You know, Alec if you're listening I personally like the
8:24
football touch with it. I thought that was a great
8:26
analogy. So, So yeah, we'll leave that.
8:29
There UT is what we're going to talk about today, which is a
8:33
white paper or report that you sent to me an email from aisaka.
8:38
It's called the state of cybersecurity 2022.
8:42
Global update on Workforce efforts resources and cyber
8:46
operations which is a mouthful for a name of report.
8:49
Why did you send this to me? Yeah.
8:52
So I've been working with several clients who are trying
8:55
to build out parts and pieces of their cyber security operations
9:01
teams, or you'll be followed kind of this plan.
9:04
Build run methodology. You and I always kind of use
9:08
that that way of organizing, as a framework, for building an
9:12
organization, But ultimately, you know, wherever you are in
9:17
the chain from entry level all the way up to Senior Management.
9:22
There is a challenge right now that is probably beyond
9:28
anything. We've seen at least a long time
9:30
in terms of finding Talent retaining talent.
9:34
And so, I did a little bit more research to have some facts and
9:38
figures at hand, to start to, you know, help these Information
9:45
Security leaders, make an explanation or try to bring some
9:51
A fax to Barrow, like why it's so hard to, you know, find
9:55
talent and why we have to do some things to be more
9:59
competitive than not only finding talent.
10:01
But I think for taking the talent that you have, you know,
10:04
that's you know, if you lose if you lose one that could be
10:09
especially if it's the certain one within your group.
10:13
You know, it might take two people to make up for that.
10:15
You might never be able to make up for it.
10:17
So retaining people by, you know, knowing What are some of
10:22
the key factors that are driving people to leave organizations?
10:26
I think is important. Yeah, losing one person might
10:31
caused other dominoes to fall to right, and sometimes that
10:34
happens as a chain reaction, I think it's interesting that this
10:37
reports kind of coming out I do sa post pandemic, if that's what
10:41
we're calling at this point, but certainly the last couple of
10:45
years has certainly shifted around expectations on both
10:48
sides. And now that we are in this sort
10:52
of like live with it seems like it pandemic phase.
10:56
There is there are certainly some know, I don't know if
11:01
tension is the right word, but certainly some issue where
11:05
Castillo companies want their employees back in the office for
11:10
whatever reason and employees that were told for the let you
11:14
know, for the last decade that they couldn't do their job,
11:16
remotely found out in the last two years of the absolutely.
11:18
Could I think that has been a real challenge for employers who
11:23
have stuck with that mindset of. Now we want people back in the
11:26
office is they are really struggling trying to find
11:30
resources to come in and then retain them.
11:33
If they're there now, and there is an opportunity Unity.
11:36
It's to do the same work and you know, get up, maybe get a pay
11:39
bump or maybe you miss the same pay, but you can work.
11:41
Remote workers are choosing. You know, the more flexible
11:44
option which is, you know, person would I would choose as
11:47
well. But it's been interesting, these
11:49
last couple years to see ya. It just drives me crazy.
11:52
All this L is like yeah, you can do this job remotely and like,
11:55
why are we not allowed to work from home.
11:56
More often pandemic, its validates that to a large degree
12:00
for a large number of folks. And you know here we are people
12:04
trying to go back in the office. I Future is more of this, I
12:07
don't know, hybrid or flexible. You know, whatever spin
12:10
organizational support on it. There are certainly some people
12:12
who like going of the office and maybe make sense for certain
12:14
things, but I think that's been an interesting turn around.
12:17
Here is what, you know, what happens.
12:19
Now, people going back into the office and how do you retain
12:22
Talent, especially in an area like cyber security.
12:24
That is so Cutthroat. And, you know, it is very
12:28
competitive and it's also hard to find those people, and you
12:33
want to keep them, you know, keep them engaged.
12:35
Two right there. I think there's are all great
12:39
points. You and I have been working from
12:42
home for many years prior to the pandemic.
12:45
We've always kind of been able to get the job done, but a lot
12:48
of our clients were, you know, in the office focused and we'd
12:52
go out and we definitely took advantage of the fact of having
12:55
people in a room, the level of Engagement that type of meetings
13:00
that you have are different, right?
13:02
I think we did a great job of you know, trying to Have the
13:06
same level quality of meetings when everybody's connecting
13:09
remotely. I think turning on your camera
13:12
really makes a big difference but I wanted to, you know,
13:17
because what you're bringing up is kind of one of the areas that
13:20
you talked about in this report and one of the thoughts that I
13:23
had as I was reading it is we have a potential for.
13:27
I mean, we're going to have to have a major societal shift if
13:32
the majority of companies don't go back in.
13:35
To the office because to, you know, a lot of businesses are
13:38
built around. Hey a bunch of people show up at
13:41
this one place for business every day so restaurants depend
13:46
on those people and skyscrapers were built to house those people
13:49
in gyms were built. And now if you know hardly
13:53
anybody goes there, if the company that was renting, that
13:59
that high-rise all there's other businesses start to go out of
14:02
business while that's going to displace.
14:05
A lot of People. What does that mean?
14:07
From a, society standpoint and do we have to go through some
14:10
kind of major economic disruption like we did with the
14:14
housing crisis of, right? Because we could have a
14:16
residential real estate crisis as well.
14:18
If you know, and I think the reason that hasn't happened
14:23
already is that company side long-term leases?
14:27
So yeah. We'll stay in those high rise
14:29
for 10 years that this rental rate.
14:33
So they don't have the ability to just say, all right, forget
14:36
this, we're working from home, fine, so we're going to shift to
14:39
that. Now what could happen in that
14:42
time period, is that, we find kind of a new norm and is
14:45
somewhere in between or we could see kind of a movement.
14:51
Either way they're bring everybody back in things.
14:53
Go back to quote, unquote normal.
14:56
I I kind of feel like we won't get back to normal completely
15:00
because People realize that there's a value to them and
15:05
working remotely, they're going to favor the remote type jobs
15:10
where possible and they will wind up leaving companies that
15:14
force them to go back in the office and companies can't
15:16
afford to lose all their talent. Yeah, the ability to work for
15:22
remotely is certainly A major benefit for some organizations
15:27
to be able to attract Talent just the way it is.
15:31
Yeah, I don't know more than that part.
15:34
I think a remotes here to stay. I think it'll be interesting to
15:36
see what the dynamic is for. This flexible model or this
15:39
hybrid model, whatever ends up be, but I certainly don't see
15:43
any time soon. Sort of the massive shift back
15:46
to a. Let's get 10,000 of our
15:48
employees, all into the office again.
15:50
At which means smaller footprints for buildings.
15:53
So maybe there is more, you know, flexibility.
15:55
Now from a physical footprint or physical office perspective, or
16:00
maybe it's more shared workspaces, or open-concept,
16:02
type things versus having, you know, assigned seats, right?
16:05
Things like that, more of a hotel environment, which I think
16:06
was already starting to be sort of the norm anyway.
16:09
But you know, it might be that people pull back their
16:12
Investments on the real estate side.
16:14
They don't need 100% that space anymore.
16:16
Maybe they only need fifty percent of it and it will
16:19
certainly Impact businesses around it.
16:21
For sure. We saw during the pandemic who
16:22
saw it was it preda manager. Pretty major, I'm not sure how
16:25
you pronounce it. What had some issues there?
16:28
A big kind of urban, you know, in the city lunch breakfast, I
16:33
place and I think they start certainly struggled to the
16:35
pandemic and I'm sure if they're still open at this point.
16:38
But stuff like that, you're totally right.
16:40
There's this trickle-down effect.
16:42
Now, what could happen though, is that might free up more real
16:44
estate for smaller, smaller shops, that don't need, that was
16:48
massive spaces, and maybe you end up with more of a variety of
16:52
businesses in a building versus, you know, one build one building
16:57
with two or three dominant tenants, right?
16:59
That sort of thing. If you like, now, we're getting
17:01
into real estate. And I'm not sure where this is
17:02
going from a cyber security, or more courses will be an identity
17:06
perspective, but I think we're about is, is how hard is it to
17:11
attract and retain talent? And certainly, this remote work
17:13
is a big part of both attracting and retention.
17:16
So I kind of feel like in the information security industry
17:20
were a little bit spoiled from the perspective that there's a
17:24
lot more demand for talent than there is talent that exists,
17:29
right? So, you know, even in a kind of
17:33
an economic downturn, we see that they're still going to be
17:38
Man for information security people and this hasn't always
17:41
been the case but it's definitely on the findings in
17:43
the report was that 63 percent of survey respondents.
17:47
So people who work for organizations claim that their
17:50
organization has unfilled, cyber security positions which
17:57
represents an eight percentage Point increase from last year or
18:00
so, I think the demand is growing You know, but the pool
18:05
of professionals isn't growing fast enough to keep up with it.
18:09
If demand Supply, right? I think, I think there's always
18:12
been a shortage of information security cybersecurity workers.
18:16
I think identities as a nice, microcosm of that you can never
18:19
find enough good identity. People, it seems like and the
18:22
good ones are taken and heavily courted, and, and you try to,
18:27
you know, try to keep the when you hang on to them.
18:28
So, it doesn't surprise me. I guess what.
18:32
I find a little surprising though, is that there hasn't
18:35
been as much at least, what it from what I've seen publicly
18:38
more of a focus on. I'm making cyber security in
18:40
general career. I know that you and I have
18:42
talked about it from the identity side of things and
18:44
trying to attract more Talent into the identity space.
18:47
And there certainly are there folks out there that have
18:49
certainly contribute to that as well, but it seems like it just
18:53
continues to grow and grow and grow and we're still chasing,
18:57
you know, the the equilibrium point because essentially, yeah,
19:02
But I think the again the other aspect of it is well part of why
19:06
I think there are so many unfilled cyber security
19:10
positions. Is that when people leave, they
19:13
can't leave those positions unfilled anymore.
19:16
They either have to bring in Consulting to fill the Gap.
19:19
Consulting is generally much more expensive, especially when
19:23
you have a scenario where hey this is a full-time role, we
19:26
need, you know, 40 50 hours, a week of somebody doing this.
19:32
To go out and, you know, pay several hundred dollars an hour.
19:35
It's not always feasible. So the open those jobs up their
19:41
shop, wrecked, right, again, right away.
19:45
A lot of that is, again, people leaving their jobs.
19:47
So, one of the factoids in this report where y cyber SEC Pros,
19:55
leave their jobs, so 59% recruited by other companies.
19:59
So, I think this is something that feeds on itself was like,
20:02
Now we have an opening. We're going to try and go steal
20:04
somebody from another company, right?
20:06
It's not like there's a bunch of people who are unemployed
20:10
looking for jobs, so it's being recruited away and then the
20:14
second one 48%, poor financial incentives.
20:17
So another words people are chasing after more money which
20:23
makes sense like look in this environment.
20:25
I think it's not just the u.s. problem, but around the world we
20:31
have an inflation. Nari environment, everything
20:33
costs more, you know, the groceries putting gas in your
20:37
car, rents are going up so people need more money.
20:42
They're going to chase after that money, but it's not only
20:44
that right? I think that's one thing that we
20:49
wide breadth, Francis report and we're not going to go through
20:51
every item, but the next one was limited promotion and
20:55
development opportunities. I think especially if you have
20:58
somebody who even cares about that cares about, you know,
21:02
Making advancements in their career.
21:04
You have to make sure that they have those opportunities because
21:07
people who care about those things are probably the people
21:10
that you want to keep in the organization.
21:12
Yeah. They're the their ambitious,
21:14
they have a desire to do more. Yes, I think I think that's a
21:20
big part of it is you know if you if you work for an
21:24
organization may find yourself being capped as far as far as
21:28
how high you can go. What your next move is you have
21:31
to look elsewhere if that's where you want to do.
21:34
That happened to me early on in my career.
21:36
I you know, I hit a certain point where I was not going to
21:39
be able to be promoted at that time into the role that I wanted
21:44
and that caused me to look elsewhere and you know, find a
21:48
way around that. And sure, you know, move each
21:50
other company. There was there was a, you know,
21:53
a nice pay raise and the kind that comes along with it.
21:55
But the reason that I started looking in the first place was
21:58
because I had a wall as far as how I was gonna be able to go
22:02
with that chick organization, which sucked because I liked it,
22:05
it was a great organization and you know still friends with
22:07
people there today but it is what it is but that's where then
22:11
the recruitment from other companies comes in and I feel
22:13
like that's the Domino that falls.
22:15
So let's say so-and-so moves to a different organization and
22:18
They've got good relationships. What is that one person do?
22:21
Now, is they reach out to their Network and say, hey, come over
22:24
here, it's great or hey, I'm building something come be part
22:27
of it, right? That sort of thing.
22:29
And now that original company is losing, not just the original
22:32
person that couldn't retain neither whoosing 2 3 4, 10, 100,
22:37
you know, whatever it, whatever, looks like, right?
22:39
For people to come along with that.
22:41
And generally, when you shift from one company to another,
22:43
that's when you get a pay raise, which is unfortunate that
22:46
organizations don't seem to want.
22:48
To raise, you know, salaries or provide the financial incentives
22:53
to keep people until it's too late, right?
22:56
I think everyone that's listening is probably familiar
22:58
with a counteroffer In an Ideal World.
23:01
It never even got to a counteroffer status, right?
23:04
It was you were paid. Fairly you felt?
23:06
We were competitive. There were regular reviews to
23:08
make sure that, that, that Financial component was
23:11
competitive with what the market is paying.
23:13
And there should be far fewer of those counter situations.
23:17
But I think what, what a lot of companies fall into now, is they
23:21
have their pre-built? You know, here's what the salary
23:25
is for this title and this range.
23:27
And there's I forgot what I forget, what the Move those.
23:30
But basically, you know, you're put into a bucket and the only
23:34
way that you get a raise, if you get promoted and then maybe some
23:36
people get promoted that probably shouldn't be because of
23:39
the financial aspect or vice versa, whatever may be.
23:43
And you know that instead of sort of tweaking, that and
23:47
making that more flexible is, they then wait and then.
23:50
Okay. Here's a counter.
23:52
And I think that, you know, the science that I've read on the
23:54
counter situation is that it doesn't work out for either
23:57
party after two years. It might feel good in the short
23:59
term. ERM.
24:01
But it's it strategically it's generally not the right move.
24:05
Yeah, so if you're a worker, how do you go and get a race, I'm
24:08
going right in what you're talking about with that like
24:10
salary survey mentality, which is, hey, you know, think of it
24:14
this way, if you get a 12 percent increase and you didn't
24:17
even ask for it, that means you're underpaid pretty
24:20
significantly in the future customers.
24:23
That's what it was called bands and clusters.
24:25
But yeah, it's like every role is slotted into a band or a
24:27
cluster and yeah, you're totally right for getting a higher.
24:30
Higher raise jet. You're probably being underpaid
24:34
to be good with. Yeah, you know, I think the
24:37
other thing that we were kind of exposing here, is this, like a,
24:43
there's two ways to look at it one is this all is great, as
24:47
individuals who are marketing and selling our time, back to
24:52
companies in terms of, hey, salaries are going up.
24:56
All this news that we're going over, you know, in this report
24:59
as people who have to build teams of cybersecurity
25:03
professionals as like, oh wow this is probably a more
25:06
challenging environment to build and retain a team than it's ever
25:10
been. Yeah, I mean, that right now,
25:13
right? I've been building an
25:14
organization and it is absolutely a realistic
25:18
concerned. Say okay, what's my budget gonna
25:20
be? You know, I think cost of living
25:23
has gone up which is driving up salary demands upset.
25:26
I mean, I'm sure other folks who are in the hiring, you know,
25:29
side of things for their organizations are feeling it as
25:31
well. Is it just keeps going up and up
25:34
at some point. There's going to be a slow down
25:39
or a bubble, or whatever you want to call it, where it
25:41
becomes almost untenable to be able to continue doing that
25:45
without business. Continuing to grow when you can
25:48
put, when you combine that with, you know, current state of
25:51
economy, and people starting maybe to pull back on spend,
25:54
especially the business world, right?
25:56
Right in that means that there is less dollars out there, makes
25:59
it even more competitive maybe on the Consulting side or other
26:02
services that are out there. Makes it more difficult than to
26:04
say, okay, can we actually afford, you know, these, these
26:08
salaries that are being paid, I think that feeds absolutely into
26:12
some of the gaps are out there is.
26:14
There are probably people out there who would be a perfect fit
26:17
for the job but they are too expensive for the role and
26:20
they're not they're not getting the offer or it could be also
26:23
that they may have a inflated self of sense.
26:26
I've stopped worth where they think they're worth more than
26:28
they may be really are right, that's certainly a possibility,
26:32
as well. It does happen.
26:35
So one of the other findings here was around University
26:38
degrees being required. In general, says the trend to
26:42
require a University degree for entry-level.
26:45
Cybersecurity precision's, is reversing a smaller percentage
26:51
of Enterprises are requiring University degrees, which I
26:54
think makes a lot of sense, right?
26:56
Right, because especially for a lot of the technical roles, I
27:01
think certifications. You know, hit the nail on the
27:06
head better, especially in like the, the more technical roles.
27:11
I think, though, you know, one of the other topics that we want
27:14
to get into the round, like skills, gaps, and where the
27:17
skills gaps, exist? And a big emphasis in this
27:20
report was on soft skills, which I think are something where
27:24
people can develop that more in that University environment.
27:27
But obviously, I think the university environment is not
27:32
the only place that you can develop.
27:34
Philip any kind of skill but I think from a, you know, cyber
27:37
SEC technology, you know, setting some kind of boundary
27:42
like hey you have to have this degree or a degree you just
27:47
limits your ability to, you know, I think what we're all
27:52
trying to do is, we're trying to find under valued resources,
27:58
right? So you know nobody wants to buy
28:01
at the top of the market. Nobody wants to get a poor value
28:03
but if you can And that gold nugget.
28:05
And maybe it's just that, you know, you found somebody that
28:08
other companies have rejected because they don't have the
28:11
University degree, you know, potentially you're you're going
28:15
to land on a fantastic value. What are your thoughts?
28:20
I am happy to see that there is less of a requirement for
28:24
University degree. I don't have one, I'm
28:27
self-taught. It took me a long time to get
28:29
where I am, but I'm happy to see that.
28:32
I think, you know, and I think we've seen over the last few
28:35
years is, you know, degree in X or equivalent work experience
28:39
has sort of been the standard I would say for like the last 10
28:42
years or so. And it's getting better and
28:44
better all the time I would much rather hire a smart person with
28:49
a great attitude. You that doesn't have a degree
28:52
then a smart person, with a great attitude with WhatsApp, or
28:55
at your that does have a degree. Yeah, well she always got to
28:59
remember Mark, Zuckerberg Bill Gates.
29:03
Yeah, laughs treadmills rate. I'm an economics degree or an
29:09
economics, a credit to like to my credit.
29:12
I guess so. The next one was skills.
29:16
Gaps owes as for skills Gap among recent University
29:20
graduates, the survey responses highlights off skills.
29:24
Again, this year, as the area, Greatest concern.
29:28
So from a soft skills perspective, communication
29:33
skills, both listening and speaking the top soft skills
29:36
security professional need in their organizations according to
29:40
50%, 57 percent of respondents. And so, the reason I wanted to
29:44
bring that up as I feel like we've talked so much about this
29:48
in past episodes or over the course of the identity of the
29:52
center Saga. Which is that?
29:55
What makes a good. I am program.
29:57
ER it's that you know I think we always go back to your
30:00
definition which is shaking hands and kissing babies.
30:04
It's you've got to be able to relate to people.
30:08
You've got to be able to then not only do that by be able to
30:13
speak publicly. You need to be able to write.
30:15
Clearly, you know, you need to Be an Effective Communicator.
30:19
Now. I don't think that college is
30:22
the only way to get there, but I do think that, that, you know,
30:25
if you're listening to the show and You're deciding whether or
30:28
not to go to college. Don't take this as you
30:30
shouldn't. Go to college, go to school, go
30:33
to school. Go to school right now, go to
30:34
school. Get that under your belt, but
30:37
you know, Don't think that. Okay.
30:40
If I'm just like a tech wizard that's all that matters uses the
30:44
soft skills that, you know, have been highlighted as something
30:47
that is very important. As far as technology skills, the
30:52
number-one, infosec technology skill Gap, that was highlighted,
30:57
was cloud computing. And I think that's, you know, to
31:00
me, the reason why that one makes sense to be at the very
31:04
top, is that cloud computing is kind of a relatively newer
31:08
thing. It's not that hey, we just found
31:10
out about the cloud, but it's really picked up steam in the
31:13
last 10 years. yeah, I mean it's the I don't know what the the
31:20
technology du jour, right? Everyone's moving to the cloud.
31:23
So, of course, people want Cloud resources and I think if you
31:26
have a, a specific Affinity towards AWS or Azure or Google
31:31
or maybe other Nish kind of ones at this point, those are in
31:38
demand and valuable skills. I know that they are always in
31:42
demand for organizations that are looking to enhance their
31:45
Cloud footprint. Doesn't necessarily have to be
31:47
identity. Could be security, could be
31:49
Development, whatever it may be but I'm not.
31:52
I'm told I'm not and I'm definitely not surprised that
31:54
class. Number one, we're hearing from
31:56
our customers to write is, hey, do you have somebody who knows?
31:59
AWS? I am the challenge becomes how
32:03
do you have somebody who knows AWS, and Google and Azure,
32:08
right? It's unicorns who are
32:11
multifaceted multi-skilled across different Technologies.
32:16
I think that's where the biggest Gap right now is, is it's not
32:19
necessarily. Hey, we're looking for somebody
32:22
who can, you know, write a project plan.
32:24
It's a, we need somebody who's a sales Point developer or her
32:27
someone who knows how to roll out sabian's or someone who
32:30
knows how to implement, you know, X specific tool in X
32:35
Pacific environment. Now it's become a lot more of
32:38
that type of situation versus maybe more of a generalized.
32:42
Oh I need identity person. Okay, well what's your platform?
32:46
What it you know what are you looking to do?
32:49
There's far more to it than now just, you know, give me an
32:52
identity person. It's very what type of edit any
32:55
person do you need? I think that's the challenge
32:57
comes in but I think that's also where the soft skills help as
33:00
well is you know you got to be able to engage convince attract,
33:06
you know, people to, you know, the cause of identity and those
33:10
are important skills and not everyone has some people need to
33:13
develop them, some people, you know, will become great at it.
33:16
Some people start great at it and some people, we'll just
33:19
that's not their thing. And that's cool too.
33:21
I think it's part of the reason why, you know, there's there's
33:24
plenty of room in the identity space for both Technical and
33:26
non-technical. I think, based on what I saw in
33:29
this report, it seems like the Deep technical tool.
33:33
Specific people are the ones that are that have the the
33:36
largest number of, you know, open open, requisitions out
33:39
there for jobs. Yeah.
33:42
I mean you know and she was kind of describing that to me is well
33:46
suit thinking like all the stuff everything you need to know
33:49
about this is that they're on YouTube.
33:52
You can learn it all on YouTube and then you can go into a free
33:56
AWS or as your environment and practice it and so you know
34:01
there's really no reason why it should be so hard to find
34:05
resources who know this stuff, but I mean, then obviously got
34:09
to get some real work. World job experience and I don't
34:12
think it's I don't think it's the I don't think it's finding
34:15
the resources. I think it's finding the time to
34:17
do it because a lot of folks are this isn't their day job, right?
34:21
They might be working on something else, you know.
34:23
Do you or does your organization set aside time for you to
34:26
actually get smarter? I think that's important.
34:29
I think that was one of things I saw is sort of like one of the
34:31
retention things. You know, is people are looking
34:34
for things like certification reimbursements.
34:36
I don't think it's for the most part, people are unwilling to
34:39
get smarter. Faster stronger, right?
34:42
Whatever it is sharpen. The saw as you like to say, I
34:44
think it's they're not given sometimes the time to be able to
34:47
be able to do that. You know, these things take time
34:50
to do. Do you get two weeks off that
34:53
are yours but you're not being pinged, you know, every two
34:57
seconds on teams that you can actually devote to that sort of
34:59
training. I think that's an important
35:00
aspect to Yeah. I mean, one of my pet peeves,
35:07
this is my early days in it for people who's like would say oh
35:11
well nobody sent me to training for that like oh well then how
35:15
would you possibly know anything about that?
35:18
If someone didn't send you to training, let you leave work for
35:22
two weeks and and pay for some class.
35:26
Folks, there's books, you can set up a computer at home.
35:31
You can watch YouTube videos and I know it sounds a little bit
35:34
crass, but I mean, this is your career, if you're not, you're
35:39
not going to invest in yourself. Why would somebody else invest
35:42
in you? And it might be nice.
35:43
That other folks are getting sent to trainings.
35:46
I've been sent this trainings but you know their stuff I
35:49
really know like TCP IP networking.
35:53
I didn't go to classes for that. It's like I read until I
35:57
understood it. And I asked people who knew,
36:00
more way more about it, to try to explain it to me and how they
36:03
thought about it. And I know I'm like dating
36:06
myself with some of that those comments, but those are some of
36:10
the fundamentals that even came through.
36:12
In this this survey report was like one of the technical skills
36:18
that was close behind. Cloud computing was
36:22
understanding Networks. And it's like, they used to be a
36:26
fundamental like a fundamental building block and now I kind of
36:31
understand why it's not because so much of it is kind of glossed
36:35
over and people don't actually have to set up networks or
36:37
troubleshoot networking equipment.
36:39
Just expect it to work, but that's, you know.
36:44
Ultimately, I guess what I'm getting at is that you've got to
36:50
You know, if you want to move up and build your skill set, you
36:53
can't wait for somebody else to send you to class.
36:56
You've got to Give up some of your free time and like invest
37:01
in yourself. Yeah, I agree with that.
37:04
I just I think there needs more balance.
37:06
I think if people people need to actively manage their careers
37:10
for sure, which means managing your own knowledge and
37:13
capability as well. But at the same time, if an
37:16
organization is going out and hiring somebody, let's say, you
37:19
know, I'll pick on sale Point again, they're they're looking
37:21
to go hire a sales Point engineer have a perfectly good
37:24
capable individual, you know, in house consider training up your
37:29
own teams, right? The people you've got.
37:32
I think that's I think there's a lot of added value that.
37:34
I think it helps everybody, right?
37:35
I think that's what the things that that will help the
37:38
organization from retention standpoint.
37:40
I think it helps you become more strategic when it comes to
37:45
making sure you've got the right people so I can place.
37:46
But, yeah, I agree. People need to manage their
37:50
their time effectively, but I think that it does need to be
37:52
able to two weeks to, I could talk to a two-way street because
37:58
What ends up happening is, you know, a lot of people go on
38:02
vacation but it's not really vacation.
38:04
The work doesn't stop. The email still took Kindred
38:06
come in. You still get pinged on any
38:08
number of, you know, text channels regardless of whether
38:12
or not your quote unquote in the office.
38:14
The work did not stop it. Just piled up and you've shifted
38:17
the work from one week to the next or one day to the next
38:21
River. Maybe I think that's that's
38:23
always a challenge is when you know a lot of people, they come
38:25
back from vacation. It's like you know, they're
38:27
swamped or A lot of people just choose to work on vacation
38:30
because they know if they don't, they're just going to be High
38:32
when they get back. So where is that balance of
38:35
being able to set aside? Time is a challenge for
38:37
everybody. I'm sure but I think you know
38:40
it's just something that we've got to do better.
38:42
I think for my management aspect of things is to give our people
38:45
enough time to breathe and not just be jamming project after
38:50
project after project and not giving any time to have that
38:53
balance there. That's right.
38:56
So box. There we go.
38:58
So one of the thing that was in the report was something, which
39:04
I thought was interesting. Again, some trying to pull off
39:07
some of the tip as in case, people don't go and read the
39:09
report themselves, which you can't read every report.
39:13
But this one had another good point which is the six and ten
39:16
respondents name, security controls as one of the areas of
39:20
training mostly by security staff.
39:23
And so, I think what this is getting at is understanding the
39:28
big picture of how information security applies to the
39:32
organization so information security. teams will work with a
39:40
framework, which has controls controls will have a business
39:46
objective and then they'll outline how that control is
39:52
achieved. And that's the technology
39:55
underneath of it. That makes that control
39:57
achievable and it's that technology that gets tested as
40:02
part of an audit. And I think, you know, when I
40:06
read that, I kind of thought to myself, like Peep the training
40:11
that they're saying people needs, especially if they're you
40:14
know, very dedicated to one piece of technology or they're
40:19
doing some technical technical work toward, you know, the
40:24
information security landscape is to see how that fits into the
40:29
big picture of, you know, these controls like a GRCC framework
40:34
for achieving these objectives through the technology.
40:38
So, so what am I getting it with all that?
40:43
Is that, you know, even if you are, you know, focused on
40:49
something that's more narrow, or you don't understand that big
40:52
picture, that's what the survey respondents which are people
40:56
from all different levels are saying that's what we want to
40:59
see people that have good soft so they obviously good
41:03
technology skills. But they also have good soft
41:05
skills to communicate and understand.
41:09
What they're doing and how it relates to the business, how
41:12
provides value to the business, how it fits into the big
41:16
picture. If you don't know those things
41:18
start tapping into start networking with some of the more
41:23
senior people, like, maybe your Chief Information, Security
41:26
Officer or some other senior managers who are approachable.
41:29
Estimates can go to lunch a smooth.
41:31
You can just like, you know, ask them to explain some of what
41:35
they do. I think, you know, if that
41:38
person Sin is like me. They'd be more than happy to
41:41
take somebody and, you know, explain those things to them
41:44
because I mean, Hey cuz it's the our ability to kind of pass on.
41:50
Hey somebody's interested in what I know I'd be more than
41:53
happy to pass that information on to them.
41:55
So I think if you're in that kind of situation, that's one
42:00
way to kind of build your career, Take an interest in how
42:05
the business operates, I think that, that's always helpful,
42:08
right? And I think that's something
42:10
that on the Consulting side that I try to do is understand.
42:14
Okay, how does this business? Make money?
42:15
Because that's where the ID controls are going to come in
42:17
and say, okay, what do we need to solve for, right?
42:20
And how do we prioritize? And how we make sure that the
42:22
user experience, whether its internal, or external, or
42:24
whatever it may be, is where it needs to be.
42:27
So that the business can continue to be profitable, if
42:30
you know, that kind of stuff, you know, you can You can, you
42:33
can become your own unicorn, so to speak and just drive that
42:37
much more value out of it. All right, so I want to pull out
42:40
the this one Easter egg that I found in this report or maybe as
42:44
I these thread, but I just found it like to be almost humorous.
42:48
So, it was titled and abundance of confidence survey respondents
42:54
confidence in the ability of their cyber security teams to
42:57
detect and respond to cyber threats.
43:00
Reaches at an all-time high of 82 percent.
43:05
A 5 percentage Point increase from last year.
43:08
Ear. This confidence is remarkable.
43:11
Considering that, 46% of respond, respond to Enterprises
43:16
have a security staff of just two to ten individuals.
43:21
So, in my mind, this was like, they walk up to a server and it
43:26
says, your server has been ransomware.
43:28
And it's like I just detected, we've been ransomware.
43:33
Good job. Good job.
43:36
And I'm going to respond by taking A job somewhere else.
43:41
Yeah I think it's interesting that that confidence level.
43:45
I think it's good as getting better.
43:47
I still think the other research that we tend to look at.
43:50
Also shows that it's taking sometimes six months to even
43:54
identify when you've been breached.
43:55
So I guess are you confident that they're finding them I
44:00
guess before that average of six months or whatever it may be?
44:04
And I was talking with an organization or are we this
44:07
week? And they were hesitant about
44:11
having tools even touching their active directory for fear of
44:15
breaking it. It's like, okay, I get that.
44:19
But who's going to spend more money on securing things?
44:23
A company that's not their bread and butter.
44:25
And that's not what they do or a company.
44:27
That that's what they do. That is their bread and butter
44:30
and I think some of that mindset shift needs to start happening.
44:33
You know, there's Kingdom sort of being built up so like, okay,
44:36
well, we would catch it, we would know, would you.
44:39
You know what, if you're the threat, you know.
44:41
If it's you know if you get breached or if you have, if
44:44
you're thinking about it from Insider threat perspective,
44:46
that's point an awful lot of trust into those two to ten
44:50
people to be. You know, that Vigilant and
44:55
being able to detect that stuff. I mean you do see that it it's
45:00
some companies there are five comes there are areas where
45:04
people justify. Hey we're going to keep all the
45:07
our data on sir. servers that we built here because Whatever XYZ
45:14
reasons is another words justifying their existence.
45:18
You do see that sometimes what I see more often though is
45:23
organizations, with they realized that the amount of work
45:27
compared to the amount of staff and amount of budget they have,
45:31
they have no way of keeping up. That's why I think this, it's
45:34
not that I don't think that there should be some confidence
45:38
out there for many organizations, but when I hear
45:41
82%, Ain't like, that's ridiculous.
45:44
That is ridiculous. Because they think the two
45:47
factors are knowing when the breach took place and then
45:50
knowing the extended the breach and I don't think organizations
45:53
are in general. Well, prepared for that.
45:58
Yep. Still reactive I think too much,
45:59
so unfortunately, but I guess if we want to make a right side is
46:04
it's getting better. I guess.
46:05
It seems maybe slowly but surely Yeah.
46:09
I mean, you know what it is just like there's a competition
46:13
between the organization's trying to protect their data and
46:17
the bad guys trying to steal their data and they're both
46:21
getting better. And so, what you have to do is
46:24
you have to get better at a faster Pace than the bad guys.
46:28
Otherwise faster than getting worse.
46:30
Yes. You you you know, there's a,
46:35
there's like a one of those haunted Halloween.
46:38
Canada things where it's like a zombies are in the house and you
46:42
walk through with your friends and have a sign like a billboard
46:45
is it brings slow friends. I like that.
46:50
It's true that. Sadly but yeah, alright so we've
46:54
been talking about this report for, I don't know, 45 minutes or
46:57
so. Anything else you want to pull
46:59
out from it before? We start to wrap things up?
47:01
Isn't it crazy? How we could take something that
47:03
it's like you know projects I have fire were to read and we
47:07
can talk about it for 45 minutes.
47:09
Yeah. I don't know if that's a good or
47:10
bad but it certainly helps us on a audio audio podcast.
47:14
That's for sure. Yeah, there you go.
47:18
All right, why don't we go ahead and start to wrap it up.
47:20
I know we normally go on a lighter note, but I was when I
47:23
was typing up notes for this show ahead of time, I was a
47:26
little bit of a negative mood so I wanted to ask you Jim.
47:29
If there's anything that you want to vent about, it can be
47:33
important. It could be a first world
47:35
problem. Whatever you want.
47:36
Let's go. Let's get it off our chests to
47:38
attend. The you've known me for how many
47:41
years has there ever. Not been something I want to
47:44
vent about. I always have something I wanted
47:46
to vent about. Out.
47:47
Yeah, I mean I think it's normal, right?
47:50
I mean there's frustrations of life I think.
47:53
I think what I feel like I've personally gotten better is
47:56
understanding. What is a truly Mission critical
47:58
problem versus okay? That's an annoyance is not is a
48:03
first world. Problem is I like to put it.
48:04
I don't have to worry about it. I'm okay, but those things can
48:09
add up over time. Yeah, they can make you angry
48:11
and so, yeah, I've got one that happened to me today.
48:14
So just a reminder of recording on Friday, July 1st Monday, July
48:20
4th is a u.s. holiday called Independence Day.
48:23
A lot of plates are closed today, and that's fine.
48:26
And I understand that and I want everybody to be able to have
48:30
their free time and time with their family, whatever.
48:32
But today being that I had off, I tried to deal with an
48:38
insurance issue, a health insurance issue, which is been a
48:42
nagging thing where I'm getting a bill.
48:44
And for some reason, my insurance Ernst company has been
48:48
rejecting it. According to the provider, I
48:52
don't think it's ever been getting to my insurance company,
48:55
but I decided to call my insurance company.
48:58
And, of course, I end up on an automated system, and I hit this
49:03
option. I hit that option.
49:04
I provide information, I respond invoice.
49:08
And finally they say, we're going to now connect you to a
49:12
human being. Thank goodness and about 10
49:16
seconds later they say. Sorry there's no attendance
49:20
available to help you because we're closed for the holiday.
49:23
This is after sitting on the system for like 10 minutes.
49:26
I'm like, why didn't you just start out by saying we will be
49:30
closed from Friday to Monday, or something like that?
49:34
I would have hung up immediately and called back on Tuesday
49:37
anyway. So that's super frustrating.
49:42
Yeah. And I think that's, that's,
49:44
that's a good first world problem.
49:46
I mean, it's like to have it, but I think it's a good example
49:48
of one. Mine is definitely another first
49:50
world problem. Actually I have two.
49:53
Can I have two? You're nodding at me?
49:55
I'm Cara. Okay.
49:57
So my first one is so I just moved to North Carolina from the
50:01
Chicago area. I used to be.
50:02
I am a United customer, that's kind of been my Airline of
50:05
choice for the last several years.
50:06
For good or for bad. They've been fine for me.
50:08
You know? No big deal so but now that I'm
50:11
in North Carolina, not necessarily United Hub area.
50:14
So I've been looking at different airlines try to switch
50:17
over Okay, well it seems like American Airlines is going to
50:20
have to be the choice because just the sheer volume of flights
50:23
leaving for my local airport here.
50:27
I must have spent 90 minutes on different phone, trees, trying
50:32
to find a live person to talk to, to get signed up for the
50:38
American Airlines Admirals, Club credit card, whatever it maybe
50:42
rights. Kind of get that started as I
50:44
start my new flight Journey, 90 minutes to find a live person.
50:50
I kept getting bounced around between different phone numbers
50:53
with phone trees that linked the other phone trees.
50:57
And ends. I gotta tell you.
50:59
I got so fed up with it that I just want to Delta and they made
51:02
it easy and I was in and I was done with it.
51:04
I didn't realize that we're going to talk about American
51:06
Airlines because I mean if we if we did this, do we have any
51:11
Brands every week? I bet half of my rants would
51:15
have been about American Airlines.
51:17
I can't stand them. So, I mean, I think we all have
51:21
our favorite and and less favorite vendors.
51:23
But this is a situation where the company made it.
51:25
So difficult for me. To give them money that I took
51:29
my money elsewhere, and you know, we'll give Delta shot.
51:32
I guess an absence of that but you'll be nice wanted, I hope
51:36
so. I mean, again, first of all
51:38
problem, my other first world problem is, you know, me and my
51:41
electric cars, right? You know, how much I love them
51:44
and I have a Tesla, which is great.
51:46
I just got a model y performance which is awesome.
51:49
I love it. Trade it, in my model, 3 for it,
51:52
very cool. For people who don't know, we
51:55
went fully electric at the beginning of This year, I guess
51:58
it'd have been December technically of 2021.
52:01
So we have two electric vehicles.
52:03
Yeah. The Tesla.
52:03
And then we also have a Volvo XC 40.
52:06
We've had the gas version of the XE 40 for the last 45 years.
52:11
I think I'm very happy fantastic vehicle.
52:14
No issues there. But I got to tell you man this
52:18
Volvo XC 40 recharge has been one of the worst Vehicles I've
52:24
ever had. Just from a sheer relief.
52:27
A liability standpoint is been like nothing but problems with
52:31
this thing, and it made my drive down from Chicago to my new home
52:39
in North Carolina. That much more difficult because
52:43
of software and hardware issues that Volvo just can't seem to
52:48
solve and keep saying, oh, it's in the next thing is the next
52:50
thing that's thing. So I hate to put Volvo on blast,
52:54
but seriously get your you-know-what together.
52:57
Because that when it works, it's a great vehicle.
53:00
But I shouldn't have to say when it works that is that what, you
53:04
know what we're looking for? Especially right now in such a
53:06
competitive EV Market. It's just, it's been a real,
53:10
it's been a real mess and I can literally can't wait for them to
53:13
take the vehicle back. And I'm actually in the process
53:16
of trying to get them to buy it back for me.
53:18
That's how much this vehicle has been a pain in the ass for me.
53:21
Well, you know, I think that's what happened to American car.
53:27
These and whatever the 80s was that the Japanese cars took over
53:32
the market, because they were just so much more reliable, and
53:37
the American cars were breaking down a lot, and I think that
53:42
that Force the American cars to get better.
53:44
So maybe that's what Tesla's doing is like they're setting
53:47
the gold standard and everybody just realized they're going to
53:50
have to get to that level. Yeah.
53:53
Or forget about it, I'm like I say Tesla's perfect right there
53:56
still is Look about that but it's been a night and day
53:59
experiences in between the two vehicles.
54:01
And yeah, the the Volvo XC 40 recharge uses Google Automotive
54:07
as its OS which when it works is pretty cool, it works fine, you
54:12
know, but again shouldn't be when it works, I shouldn't have
54:15
to break into the vehicle because the key fobs don't work,
54:19
set off the alarm and then try to figure out where the backup
54:22
key reader is. But the alarm continue going off
54:25
only to find out that the GPS It doesn't work.
54:27
The LTE data connection doesn't work, which are super important
54:31
for an electrical vehicle to know where you are and where
54:34
you're going to get your next charge from.
54:36
Yeah. So it is just then it's been a
54:38
mess, you know, for six months now that I've had it and the the
54:44
TV Market is just two competitors too many good eating
54:47
Vehicles. So I really hope someone from
54:49
Volvo. Here's this that they will.
54:52
This is identity Center but for other folks who are looking at
54:55
Volvo XC 42 recharges My experience has been less than
54:59
Stellar. What?
54:59
She'll say that. Yeah, rant over.
55:02
I'm done. #Grant or exactly?
55:06
Yeah. /Rant.
55:09
Which you just saw things, you say something and you just feel
55:13
like you need to clarify. So when I say I hate American
55:15
Airlines, I don't hate people from American Airlines, right?
55:19
I'm not a hater. I'm not a hateful person, but
55:22
you have a lot of people take you.
55:24
We're going to lose that American Airlines money.
55:25
Sponsorship, money. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
55:28
But no, I mean, where I'm going is like, look, I know
55:31
everybody's out there trying to do their best.
55:33
But you know, my my what has happened to me is I got stranded
55:38
at Charlotte Airport like for business trips in a row and I
55:44
was when I just said, I'm done, it's all takes.
55:49
You had all cable that experiences.
55:50
And you start to see a trend. I like to think I'm pretty
55:53
tolerant, but you have to certain a certain amount of
55:55
point you kind of have to Understand if whether or not
55:59
you're a captive audience. And if you're not, there's
56:02
choices out there, it's very similar to what we just talked
56:04
about from the cybersecurity state, right?
56:07
Of hiring and retaining and you know, talent and things like
56:10
that. That are out there is if there
56:13
is a better product out there or a better company that is a
56:17
better fit for an individual, they are going to go to that
56:20
company. So how do you make sure that
56:23
your company or your organization is set up in a way?
56:28
To retain as many of those people as possible.
56:32
Yeah, you know, I think that on an individual level for the
56:36
retention, you know, this would be my parting thought is you've
56:40
got to treat people with respect, and sometimes it's
56:44
going to be, you know, hearing people out, giving them advice,
56:49
putting their interests, you're taking their interest to Heart.
56:53
It might require more patience on your end, and you really feel
56:58
like you should have to have But I don't know.
57:02
I mean, like there's a team that was working for me recently that
57:07
I felt like, you know, I have to go that extra mile to make sure
57:11
that these folks feel cared for and that, you know, they're
57:16
being listened to and I'm taking their best interest at heart.
57:20
I think that adds up over time and I'll take that, I think one
57:24
of the biggest things, you know, didn't show up on this reporter.
57:28
At least I didn't see it on the report, Big.
57:30
As things about where you work is, who you work with, and if
57:36
you really enjoy working with the people, then you're much
57:40
more likely to stay there right now.
57:42
That doesn't mean that you could be 50% underpaid and still feel
57:47
good, but it all other things being roughly equal.
57:52
I think the people that you work with is, like the number one
57:55
factor at least it is for me. I think people put put up with a
57:59
lot more if they're surrounded by people say like and think
58:03
that's natural. I think there's, there's also
58:05
been stated that there is like people don't leave jobs.
58:07
They leave managers and think there's some truth to that, as
58:10
well. I think it's a combination of
58:12
everything. But yeah, I mean, It's not hard,
58:15
be cool, you know, give people rope, they need it, you know, be
58:20
careful of, you know, that kind of stuff.
58:22
And, and hopefully, I guess just treat people the right way.
58:27
That's that's it. I feel like this this episode
58:29
was much different than what we normally get into getting really
58:32
made any, but more like I guess the business side of Talent
58:38
hands we talked about cybersecurity, but this is
58:40
definitely an identity area as well.
58:43
So, such a hot area right now that it's on so many people's
58:47
minds. I mean, look, we're starting to
58:50
line up our movie Up Gas back on the show.
58:54
And it's, you know, we've turned a few in there and Look, we love
59:00
doing that but that takes a lot of extra preparation and most
59:05
people wouldn't want to record on Friday night before a
59:09
four-day weekend, right? So the best losers us losers.
59:13
Yeah, well I think so, but I still think topics like this are
59:16
important to cover because it's not all technical.
59:19
There's plenty of technical content out there.
59:21
I think these are sometimes these conversations get into the
59:24
soft skill area, right? Understanding maybe the stuff
59:28
that You know, if you haven't maybe been in in the in the
59:32
professional life for as long, maybe help us put some context
59:36
out there. As here's what people who are
59:38
have been it for a while are thinking or what they're seeing,
59:40
right, those sorts of things. So I'm not opposed to it.
59:43
Obviously, we did a show a whole show around it, but I did think
59:45
it was pretty different than what we normally would get into.
59:49
Yeah, which is cool as I like. It keeps it, keeps it different.
59:52
It does. I think the topic was relevant
59:55
to the person who's managing a team is also, Relevant to the
1:00:00
person who's just getting into the field and everything in
1:00:03
between. Absolutely.
1:00:06
All right we we want for an hour on our third birthday.
1:00:10
We'll go ahead and wrap it up. Happy birthday Jim.
1:00:13
Here's to another three years. Happy Birthday Jeff.
1:00:17
Hopefully we can continue this Breakneck pace of of a show a
1:00:23
week. I think I'm going to end up
1:00:24
being a gardener and roughly a month and a half or so.
1:00:27
So maybe I'll be able to see their first name.
1:00:30
We can actually do something, you know, live with some folks.
1:00:33
So if you're going to be at Gartner ping Jimmer, I and I
1:00:36
would be happy to see what we can do about maybe doing
1:00:40
recording or a fist bump or even just, you know, shooting the
1:00:44
proverbial. You know what so, all right,
1:00:48
we'll go ahead and leave it there for this week as Jim
1:00:51
laughs at me on camera. It's late on a Friday but let's
1:00:53
be done with this. You can visit the show on the
1:00:56
web identity at the center.com. We're on Twitter at IDC podcast.
1:01:01
Maybe I'll post a picture of the bear and on there.
1:01:05
And with that, we'll go ahead and leave it.
1:01:07
So thanks everyone for listening and thanks for being with us for
1:01:11
his last three years and hope you'll stick around with us and
1:01:14
we'll talk with everyone. The next thanks for listening to
1:01:21
the identity at the center podcast.
1:01:23
If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and
1:01:25
visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.