Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / When Your Child is Left Out [a listener Q&A]

Transcript

When Your Child is Left Out [a listener Q&A] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Good day.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Happy Families podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Sometimes social relationships can be tricky, especially for our kids.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: But what happens when your neighbors are ignoring your children?
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: What do you do when your kids feel like they're
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: being picked on? They're trying so hard to engage and
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: nothing's working. Today we answer another tricky question on the pod.
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  Speaker 2: Stay with us. That is next.
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  Speaker 3: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: real parenting solutions every single day. It's astraight as most
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: downloaded parenting podcasts. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson. We
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  Speaker 3: have six children, I've written eleven books, I've got a
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  Speaker 3: TV show and this podcast. And today it's a tricky question. Oh,
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: if you've got a tricky question you'd like to ask us,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: we love answering them for you podcasts At happy families
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: dot com dot you just send a voice note through,
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: or alternatively, go to happy families dot com dot you
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: scroll down to the super simple system where you just
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: press the record button and start talking like this anonymous
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: mum who asked the following.
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  Speaker 4: Question to just we need your help. We've got two boys,
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  Speaker 4: five and a half and four. We live in a
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  Speaker 4: townhouse complex where there's other families with kids ranging from
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  Speaker 4: four to twelve years old. The kids have all been
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  Speaker 4: playing together in the driveway for the past couple of
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  Speaker 4: years with no real problem, but recently something's changed. The
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  Speaker 4: other kids have started being downright mean and rude to
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  Speaker 4: our boys. Don't get me wrong, I know all kids
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  Speaker 4: can be mean at times, but we're seeing them being
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  Speaker 4: totally ignored comments like oh great they're here, and not
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  Speaker 4: wanting them to join in on group games. We've told
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  Speaker 4: our kids that if they aren't having fun or if
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  Speaker 4: people aren't playing kindly to just come inside, but they
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  Speaker 4: want to be involved and included. We've started trying to
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  Speaker 4: fill our weekends with activities that mean we aren't home
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  Speaker 4: to avoid the nastiness. We just don't know what to do.
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  Speaker 4: We'll be moving in a couple of years, but in
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  Speaker 4: the meantime, what do we do. Do we talk to
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  Speaker 4: the other parents we're not close to them and we
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  Speaker 4: have to continue living next door. Do we tell our
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  Speaker 4: kids that they can't go outside with the others and
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  Speaker 4: have them hate us, or do we continue trying to
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  Speaker 4: do everything we possibly can just to not be home.
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  Speaker 1: Please help, Oh, We've been through this yeah, a few
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  Speaker 1: times in townhouse complexes, we've done it and just say badly,
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  Speaker 1: just want to walk out there and say, hey, kids,
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  Speaker 1: just be nice to each other.
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  Speaker 2: Look at my boys, Look at my kids. They want
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  Speaker 2: to play with you. Can't you do this right?
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  Speaker 5: There's actually a lot going on in this space as
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  Speaker 5: kids are navigating relationships and working out how to treat
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  Speaker 5: one another kindly and respectfully. But what I find often
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  Speaker 5: happens is when parents are not involved, and it sounds
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  Speaker 5: like they're playing out on the driveway. So while parents
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  Speaker 5: might be aware that they're there, they're not actually fully supervising.
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  Speaker 5: These are young kids.
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  Speaker 3: Well, well, the age group is four to twelve, and
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  Speaker 3: I want to talk about that later, but that's a
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  Speaker 3: really like that.
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  Speaker 5: Her kids are young.
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  Speaker 3: Her kids are four and five and a half, So
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  Speaker 3: they're at the bottom end of the pecking order that's
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  Speaker 3: going to develop because of the age range.
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  Speaker 5: That's exactly right, And so I think the very first
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  Speaker 5: thing I would be doing is actually being a lot
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  Speaker 5: more available present than present.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So I've got two big things that I'm
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  Speaker 3: going to share. I'll share one before the breaking, one
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  Speaker 3: after the break. The first thing is I really think
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  Speaker 3: that this is the kind of problem that you do
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  Speaker 3: not want to solve for the boys.
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  Speaker 2: You want to solve with them.
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  Speaker 3: Every strategy that has been tried so far is decided
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  Speaker 3: by the adults and delivered to the kids. Come inside
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  Speaker 3: if they're mean, Let's fill our weekends with lots of
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  Speaker 3: other activities so that you don't have to deal with it.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe we should just ban playing in the driveway. And
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  Speaker 3: I think instead of parents deciding, well, here are your options, kids,
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  Speaker 3: it's worth sitting down, exploring, explaining and empowering. It's worth
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  Speaker 3: saying to a four and a five and a half
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  Speaker 3: year old boy, what's it like.
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  Speaker 2: Out there for you? What do you wish was different?
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  Speaker 3: What different things do you think we can try. I
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  Speaker 3: fundamentally believe that there are answers inside our children if
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  Speaker 3: we just give them the time and the space to
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  Speaker 3: be brought out.
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  Speaker 5: I also think so as adults, we see situations and
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  Speaker 5: we actually have our own emotions around them, which is
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  Speaker 5: sometimes very different to the emotions our children are experience.
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  Speaker 3: We put our stuff onto the kids and tell them
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  Speaker 3: how they should be feeling about something. I think in
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  Speaker 3: this case there's a bit of well based on what
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  Speaker 3: I'm saying, everyone's on the same page, but that's not
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  Speaker 3: always what happens. I just want to go back to
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  Speaker 3: this getting answers out of the kids, because I know
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  Speaker 3: that some people will be listening right now and saying,
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  Speaker 3: what can my four year old really contribute in terms
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  Speaker 3: of solutions.
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  Speaker 2: It's not that they're going to produce the right answer.
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  Speaker 2: I don't even know if there is a right answer here.
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  Speaker 2: I need to be really honest about that. It's not
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  Speaker 2: that they're going to produce something brilliant that fixes everything,
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  Speaker 2: or that parents wouldn't have thought of anyway. It's that
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  Speaker 2: they're being taken seriously as a participant in their own life.
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  Speaker 2: That's resilience building, that's protective, that actually facilitates that autonomy
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  Speaker 2: need that I'm always talking about.
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  Speaker 5: It teaches the children that you value their input, that
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  Speaker 5: they actually have something worthy of offering.
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  Speaker 3: Right, And maybe I'm getting this wrong as I listen
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  Speaker 3: to what this anonymous mum has asked, But what I'm hearing.
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  Speaker 2: Are boys that are already they're talking to their parents.
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  Speaker 3: They're happy to be involved. Because five and a half
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  Speaker 3: and four year old children do really want their parents
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  Speaker 3: to be involved. They wanted to be included with these kids.
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  Speaker 3: They're willing to tolerate some rough treatment for the chance
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  Speaker 3: to be included because relatedness is another basic psychological need
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  Speaker 3: and they're desperate to be there. And so I would
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  Speaker 3: just say, as a family, we need to work on this,
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  Speaker 3: and the kids need to come up with their solutions
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  Speaker 3: more than we need to give the kids solutions. That's
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  Speaker 3: my first major point. Now that's kind of abstract. It's
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  Speaker 3: not sufficiently concrete. I know, and some parents will be saying,
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  Speaker 3: but what do I do about this? But that's kind
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  Speaker 3: of it, Like the process is to a very large
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  Speaker 3: part of the solution.
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  Speaker 2: After break, I want to talk about something more practical
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  Speaker 2: about how we can change the structure of the play
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  Speaker 2: and really get into the nuts and bolts of how
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  Speaker 2: we can help the kids make this work. Statements.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: We're back in the Happy Family's podcast, answering a tricky
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  Speaker 3: question about kids being picked on in the townhouse complex
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  Speaker 3: driveway because well, the big kids just think that they're
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  Speaker 3: better and they're saying horrible things when the little kids
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  Speaker 3: come out to play. I have spent I would say,
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  Speaker 3: a lifetime trying to encourage parents to look at the
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  Speaker 3: environment before they look at the flaws in their children's character.
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  Speaker 3: What I've argued is that I'm not convinced that our
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  Speaker 3: children are flawed so much as the environment's not supporting
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  Speaker 3: our children.
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  Speaker 2: And when you get the environment right in.
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  Speaker 3: Terms of supporting basic psychological needs, you typically find that
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  Speaker 3: a lot of the challenges that.
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  Speaker 2: Kids show up with disappear.
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  Speaker 3: So Colie, my second major idea, I've got a couple
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  Speaker 3: of smaller ones, But my second major idea is is this,
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  Speaker 3: if you have a look at this context, this environment,
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  Speaker 3: what we've got, and you touched on this in your
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  Speaker 3: initial response is you've got unstructured play, which we're fans of,
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  Speaker 3: happening in the driveway, which means they're outside, which we're
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  Speaker 3: fans of. But it's happening with kids aged four to twelve,
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  Speaker 3: which is guaranteed to create status hierarchies and pecking orders.
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  Speaker 5: Well, just developmentally, each of these children at different levels
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  Speaker 5: need different things.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the oldest kids are going to run the game,
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  Speaker 3: and they are going to choose who to exclude, and
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  Speaker 3: usually they're going to exclude the kids that are the smaller.
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  Speaker 5: I don't want the babies playing with them. They don't
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  Speaker 5: want a babysit. They don't want it. They want an
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  Speaker 5: equal in their playing.
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  Speaker 3: And they are an easy target. Yeah, the reality is
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  Speaker 3: that they are. So I think that there needs to
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  Speaker 3: be getting back to what I said in the first
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  Speaker 3: part of the pod, a cooperative conversation with the kids
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  Speaker 3: where we look at how we could restructure the environment.
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  Speaker 3: So we got the boys' input where we can, but
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  Speaker 3: we can guide the discussion and engineer a situation where
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  Speaker 3: inclusion is built into the active rather than being left
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  Speaker 3: to the mercy of the twelve year olds and the
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  Speaker 3: ten year olds, who can be the bosses. Like you said,
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  Speaker 3: you might get involved and be present and host something
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  Speaker 3: like a giant driveway obstacle course, or you might bring
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  Speaker 3: up the sprinkler and the icy poles and make a
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  Speaker 3: game that only works if everybody's playing. And to me,
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  Speaker 3: that's what we're trying to do here, restructure the environment
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  Speaker 3: and find ways for everyone to participate in meaningful, positive ways.
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  Speaker 5: As we have dealt with this a number of times
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  Speaker 5: over the years with different children, what I think has
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  Speaker 5: been the number one contributing factor to good positive social
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  Speaker 5: relationships is positive relationships with parents.
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  Speaker 2: That was one of my minor points that I was
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  Speaker 2: going to make, but you're right, well it's.
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  Speaker 5: Not a minor point. This is hands down going to
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  Speaker 5: be the game changer for you moving forward.
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  Speaker 2: And when I have them over for a barbecue.
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  Speaker 5: When you live in a complex situation, if your children
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  Speaker 5: are playing with other families, then you want to know
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  Speaker 5: who these families are and you want to kind of
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  Speaker 5: be in their space and have them in your space.
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  Speaker 5: And that can feel really daunting to start. But if
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  Speaker 5: your children are playing with them, then regardless of whether
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  Speaker 5: they're in the front yard, on your driveway or not,
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  Speaker 5: essentially they are going into those homes because those children
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  Speaker 5: are coming from different families, different backgrounds, and they're bringing
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  Speaker 5: those family values right to your front door.
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  Speaker 1: Ye.
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  Speaker 5: So, as parents, the number one contributor to your children
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  Speaker 5: having successful social interactions is going to be involving yourself
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  Speaker 5: in the other families. That doesn't mean that you need
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  Speaker 5: to go up and knock on the door and say, hey,
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  Speaker 5: my kids are having a hard time because your kids
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  Speaker 5: are being bullies. It's not going to work. You're going
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  Speaker 5: to say, hey, our kids have been playing in the
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  Speaker 5: front yard for a while now, and we really haven't
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  Speaker 5: done anything. We love to have you come over. Let's
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  Speaker 5: just have a potluck dinner, for instance, in the front yard.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Everyone bring a camping chair and a meal that their
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  Speaker 5: family would eat, and we just share it together. There's
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  Speaker 5: no stress, there's no extra effort on anyone's part because
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  Speaker 5: you're just bringing dinner across.
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  Speaker 2: Just get together for a kappa, have a drink on
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  Speaker 2: the driveway.
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  Speaker 5: Or afternoon drinks or whatever. But just get families interacting
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  Speaker 5: with each other, because inevitably those other parents who are
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  Speaker 5: still not supervising either will start to see interactions and
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  Speaker 5: hopefully any person who is striving to teach their children
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  Speaker 5: good values is going to pick up on something.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, so the last one that I'm going to mention,
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  Speaker 3: I know you've got one more as well. Fleeing the
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  Speaker 3: house on the weekend. That strategy. That's understandable, and it
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  Speaker 3: works in a really short term context. But if you're
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: going to be there for another couple of years, you
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  Speaker 3: can't flee the house every afternoon and every weekend.
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  Speaker 2: You might as well just move.
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  Speaker 5: Now you're going to get exhausted trying.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And what it teaches the boys is that the
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  Speaker 3: answer to some kind of social pain is that you
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  Speaker 3: should disappear, and you're also giving the driveway to the
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: kids that are doing the exclusion. So we've got to
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  Speaker 3: work around and I think the solutions we've discussed so
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  Speaker 3: far are probably probably the best way to go.
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  Speaker 2: You've got one more, what's the last one?
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  Speaker 5: I think the other thing is just to recognize when
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  Speaker 5: you've got a large number of children all coming together,
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  Speaker 5: there's always going to be challenges, and acknowledging the different
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  Speaker 5: age groups as well takes it to another level. But
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  Speaker 5: as we have looked at our children's social networks, what
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: we've always strived to do is with their help, work
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  Speaker 5: out who are the kids that they actually really want
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  Speaker 5: to spend time with. They're choosing to spend time with
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  Speaker 5: the group because everybody's there, but there will be a
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  Speaker 5: handful of children, maybe even just one child that they
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  Speaker 5: actually really want to spend time with, and so they
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  Speaker 5: put up with all the other children being in the
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  Speaker 5: space in order to have time with that person. So
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  Speaker 5: once you have worked out with your children who are
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: the children they actually want to spend time with, then
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  Speaker 5: spend time fostering that.
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  Speaker 3: Relation to our anonymous listener, we really hope that these
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: answers are helpful in dealing with the challenge that you
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: are facing. We thank you so much for your question.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: If you have a tricky question for us, please send
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: us a voice note to podcasts at happy families dot
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: com dot you, or go to the super simple system
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: at happy families dot com dot you, press the record
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: button and start talking. We love answering your tricky questions.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Next week one about handling kids squabbles. Tomorrow though, on
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: the pod we talk to Professor Nicholas Epley, who has
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: written a book called a Little More Social about how
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: we can deal with exactly these kinds of social challenges that.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Arise every day in so many families.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: The Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Bridge Media. Mimhamits provides our additional admin support. If you
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: would like more infoto make your family Happier, you'll find
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: it at happy families dot com dot Au.