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The Impossible Murder on a Train - Laetitia Toureaux · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: On May sixteenth, nineteen thirty seven, twenty nine year old
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Letitia boarded an empty first class train carriage on the
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Paris Metro, never knowing that she was less than ninety
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: seconds away from death. Then, when the train pulled into
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the very next station, there she was found with a
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: knife buried deep in her neck. Yet no one had
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: seen another passenger enter or leave that train carriage. It
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: looked like an impossible murder, and soon it would expose
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: a hidden side of Letitia's life that was filled with secrets,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: undercover surveillance, dangerous political connections, and a possible motive for
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: someone to silence her for good. This is the story
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: of an impossible murder on a Metro. This is the
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: story of Letitia to Row.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: The following material intend more mature audience listener discretion. We
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: haven't touched on this yet, but spooky season is on
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the horizon.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Don't they call him the bur months? Yeah you heard that.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're not there yet.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Well, we're getting there, yeats. Next month is the.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Start of the month September, October November it's December. December, yeah,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the bird months. We're in August right now. But I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: am looking outside and though it is green and lush,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I see yellow starting to creep in. The grass is
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: drying out, and the leaves are just not as rich
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: in nutrients as they were before. They're not yellowing or
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: dying off yet, but there's just a change.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: There's a fog in.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: The morning sometimes it's there, it's creeping in. And of
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: course there's Halloween decorations.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: In like every fucking fo Yeah. I honestly like, like,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I'm a photographer and so I like shooting in this
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: more than like lush greens. Oh it's warmer looking, yeah,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: you know, just looks better. In my opinion.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Things don't look yellow or dying yet. They just look
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: a little more golden.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Because green can be very overpowering in a photo, for sure,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: So I think maybe that's a reason why to.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: It's very oversaturated right now, it's not so saturated, it's
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: dulled down a little softer. Yeah, yes, softer, softer, softer
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: and golden.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I just look behind me too, and do you see
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: how much much of the bed honey is hogging?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Ripley only has her ass on the dog
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: bed right now, Honey is yeah taking up the rest.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Said, we have two beds. I separated Honey, and then
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: she's like, no, I want to lay with my sister,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: And now she's just pretty much kicking her sister off
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the bed.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So there is two dogs or sorry, there is
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: a dog and a half on one bed and an
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: empty bed right next to them. Yeah, because why not.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: But honestly, that's been a dream of mine. I always
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: wanted snuggling huskies, and we have it. We do only
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: because of Honey, though, Rip allows it, but she doesn't
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: really go and snuggle with Honey. She has.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I've seen it happen, but it's very rare. It's not
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: as common. That's rue.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it's pretty cute. Yeah.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I've got an interesting tale for you. We're going
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: back to what was it the thirties for this one,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds crazy.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: And not only are we going back to the thirties,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: we're going back to a bit of a romantic era.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: But we're going to a romantic place in Paris.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Ooh okay, yeah, so.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Are you ready for a very romantic murder story?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I know. I was like, this isn't really romantic.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: It's not it's not just the setting.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: The setting, the era or whatever. Yeah, but no, I
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: am ready.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well let's get into it. Letitia Marie Josephine Nourisat
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: was born on September eleventh, nineteen oh seven, in Oiis,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: which is a small mountain community in the Oyster Valley
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of northern Italy, close to the borders with France and Switzerland.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: She was one of several children born into a working
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: class Italian family. Her father worked as a farmer, but,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: like many Italian families during the time well they eventually
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: looked to France for better opportunities. Letitia was young when
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: she moved across the border. The family initially settled in
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Lyon before eventually making their way to Paris. By adulthood,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: she had spent much of her life in France, but
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: her Italian background would remain a very important part of
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: who she was. Soon she grew into an independent young
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: woman who is comfortable moving through Paris all on her own.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: She worked, went dancing, made friends easily, and developed a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: reputation for being outgoing and sociable. She particularly enjoyed the Balmoussette,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: which is the popular dance halls that could be found
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: throughout the working class area of Paris Accordion. Music filled
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: the rooms as people danced and drank and socialized. For
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: a young woman like Letitia, they offered an inexpensive night
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: out and a chance to meet people from completely different
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: parts of the city. And Letitia loved meeting people. Now,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: she was also quite attractive, fashionable even and took care
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: of her appearance, and men they noticed her, and over
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the years she had no shortage of any sort of
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: romantic connections. And one of those men was Jewlesterreaut. Now
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Jewels worked with decorative pewter, and the relationship between him
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and Letitia became serious enough that the couple married in
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Night eighteen thirty, and Letitia became Madame Tourout and it
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: was a name that which she would continue using for
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the rest of her life, even though the marriage unfortunately
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: did not last long. But not for the reasons you're
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: probably thinking you see. Jeweles unfortunately became seriously ill with tuberculosis,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a disease that remained one of Europe's major killers during
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: the first half of the twentieth century. His health deteriorated
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: until he eventually died in nineteen thirty five, while still
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a relatively young man.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Oh that's terrible. So they'd been what married five years?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Five years, and now Letitia is suddenly a widow while
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: she's just still in her twenties.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, that's really sad. Yeah.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Now she continued working and eventually settled into a fairly
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: ordinary life. By nineteen thirty seven, she was living alone
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: at three Pierre Bayle Street in Paris's twentieth district, while
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: remaining close with her family. During the week, she worked
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: at an industrial factory north of central where the company
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: manufactured shoe polish, and she was known as a dependable employee.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: In fact, she was said to be a model worker
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: who was helpful towards the people who were around her.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: She worked during the day and enjoyed herself. When she
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: was off, she visited the dance halls, which were called gignettes,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: which were like traditional open air French cafes, pubs, or
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: whatever other establishment. They're typically near water. But most importantly,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: she liked places that offered music and dancing, particularly around
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Paris and its suburbs. She became such a familiar presence
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: in that world, and was even spending time working around
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: these dance halls herself, including taking care of customers coats
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and belongings and cloak rooms, which are basically just coat checks.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: But there was another name people sometimes knew her by
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: as well, and that was Yulandi. But to most of
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the people who encountered her in her daily life, she
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: was simply Letitia or occasionally Yulandi, the young Italian born
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: woman who was a widow and worked and danced and
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: seemed to enjoy being around people. That's who they saw
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: her as. Sunday May sixteenth, nineteen thirty seven was Pentecost Sunday,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: part of a long holiday weekend in France. Letitia did
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: not have to work that day, and she had filled
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the hours with family errands and plans. For the evening,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: her younger brother, Henry, arrived at her apartment at three
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Pierre Bayle Street at around ten am. He brought her
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: something from their mother, a newly made green outfit was handmade,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: was described as a tailored skirt and a jacket. Letitia
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: had spent much of the period after Jules's death wearing black,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: mourning the lost, but that morning she decided to wear
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: the brighter clothes instead. See she took some care in
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: putting herself together. Along with the green suit, she wore
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: a white hat, white gloves, and other green accessories. On
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: her lapel, she wore a badge connected to the League
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Republican dubiennes public or in English, Republican League of the
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Public Good, although the significance of that organization was not
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: something that would become clear until later on in this story. Now,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: after getting dressed, Letitia and Henry went out together. They
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: stopped at the nearby beast Row for a drink, then
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: continued to a hairdresser. Henry had his haircut while Letitia
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: had her styled, making her naturally dark brown hair a
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: lighter blonde. Then, at around one pm, they went to
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: their mother's home for lunch. Their family spent part of
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: the afternoon together before Letitia and Henry headed out again,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: this time with a friend named Maurice Kagen. At about
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: three pm, the three traveled by taxi to La Hermitage,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: a popular dance spot, and they naturally traveled by bus
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: when going there, but on this Sunday they decided to
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: take a cab instead. It was typical, you know, to
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: hop on bus and go here and there. But for
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, they were feeling a little more fancy today
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and thought, let's go get a care.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Let's splurge and just get there right away exactly.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: And for the next several hours Letitia danced. Henry knew
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: many of the regulars there, and there was nothing unusual
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: that appeared to have happened while they were dancing. Letitia
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: kept dancing with several people, including Maurice. By six pm,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Letitia was ready to leave. Henry was outside near the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: terrace talking with some friends, so rather than interrupting him,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Letitia asked the orchestra leader to say goodbye for her,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and then she left alone. Letitia still had several plans
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that evening. She wanted to connect with a man named
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Jean Martin, a sailor she knew was coming back. Apparently
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: he was, you know, being put on leave, and he was.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: She was going to a dance hall that he regularly frequented,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: so she intended to leave him a message there through
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the employee known as Kiki. Now, after that, her plan
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: was to return home, change clothes, and later attend a
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: dinner or banquet connected with the Aosta Valley immigrant community.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: The event was reportedly being held at the Bon Valley
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Rooms on Temple Boulevard, so needless to say, her evening
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: had a packed schedule.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: No kidding. She is like a busy lady and quite popular.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Definitely, she's she gets around having her dances and conversations
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: and enjoying enjoying life and company.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I kind of like that because I mean, she had
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: a super loss in her life, but she's still going
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: to these things and you know, being okay with just
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: it just being.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Her too exactly.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: She went with her brother, but like you know, she's
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: still dancing with other people and enjoying life and having fun.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Well, and when she's ready to leave, she's all like, yeah,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave him, let him do his thing, and
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do my thing. Yeah, independent woman right now.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Letitia made her way to the bus after leaving her
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: brother behind. She had all those things planned, so she
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: leaves the dance hall and heads to the bus. She
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: board it at approximately six nineteen pm and the weather
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: turned a little bit poor with some heavy rain beginning
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: to fall, but still the bus carried her towards Port
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: de Charletan at the eastern end of metro line eight.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Now the conductor remembered her. She was hard to overlook
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: in that green outfit and white hat, in fact, and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: she was traveling alone. Now one reconstruction places her arrival
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: at Porte de la Charleton at around six twenty four pm.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: From there she moved quietly. She appears to have gone
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: almost directly to the train station. Line eight began at
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Port de Charletan and the train was number three.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Eight to two.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: It consisted of several cars, with the first class carriage
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: being positioned among the more crowded second class cars. About
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty passengers were reportedly boarding the second
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: class sections. While the first class carriage was well it
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: was much much quieter. First class, of course, costs more,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: but Letitia did occasionally use it. A booklet later found
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: among her belongings contained twenty train tickets in total, four
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: of them were in fact first class. Her family explained
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that she sometimes paid for the extra fare on Sundays
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: or when wearing nice clothes, so she wouldn't be pressed
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: up in crowds, you know, creasing and wrecking her hair.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Whatever the cass was.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Get it, girl. I kind of love that she's like
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I look good, I'm going first class.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Right, So not only not only did she splurge for
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the cab initially, now she's splurging for first class.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: To boot so the first class goal.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: She's she's feeling it, she's having a good, good evening,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: she's spending the extra money splurging. And that Sunday, dressed
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: in the new green green dress or suit, whatever you
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: want to call it, that her mother had made. Choosing
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: first class was exactly what witnesses saw as she entered
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that carriage. As far as anyone could tell, she actually
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: entered alone, the only person going into the first class
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: car Now, the doors remained open while passengers continued filling
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: other cars, and Letitia sat down inside the empty compartment.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: At approximately six twenty seven pm, the train number three
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: eighty two pulled away from Porte de la Chanton with
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Letitia inside the first class carriage. Exactly how long it
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: takes to reach Porte deor the next station in line
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: well is one of the smaller details of the case
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: that has never been completely settled. Some accounts put the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: journey at only forty five seconds from stop one to
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: stop two, while reconstructions later look closer to be roughly
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: eighty to ninety seconds, and what can be said with
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: reasonable confidence is that this train reached Port Deor in
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: less than a minute and a half, but most articles
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: just say a minute. But once the train began moving,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: there was no obvious disturbance from the first class carriage.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Most accounts indicate that nobody reported hearing a struggle or
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: any other sound, suggesting that there could have been an
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: attack that took place.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: There is, however, one notable exception. Two men traveling in
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: an adjoining second class carriage, Raymond Bruel and Andrea Lejoan.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: They later told police that they heard what they thought
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: to be a scream shortly before the train stopped at
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Porte De'uor. As the train approached the first class carriage
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: was coming into view of passengers waiting on the platform
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: from outside, Letitia appeared to be sitting in her seat,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: almost as though as she had fallen asleep. As the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: train slowed and braked, however, that's when her body shifted
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and slipped forward in her seat. And once the train
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: came to a stop and the doors opened, those two
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: men that thought they heard the scream, Raymond and Andrea.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: They also stepped out of their second class carriage and
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: hurried along the platform to where they believed the sound
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: came from, and within moments became clear that something was
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: seriously wrong. The exact descriptions from this group vary between sources,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: but one of the detailed reconstru tructions identify Raymond del Braille,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: his fiance, and a female friend as entering through one
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: set of doors, three other women, identified as Elizabeth Guy,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Marie Caitlin, and Yvette Bailey entering through another. These were
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: individuals who are going to be traveling first class from
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: what I could find now. They all found Letitia on
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: the floor of the carriage, still dressed in her green
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: skirt jacket, with her white hat and gloves, and a
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: knife had been embedded deep into her neck. The weapon
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: was described as a folding or clasped knife, approximately eight
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: to nine inches long overall, and the blade had been
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: driven into the backside of her neck with enough force
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that it remained buried in her flesh. Letitia's gold earrings
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: were also said to be found lying beside her in
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a pool of blood. However, despite the severity of the injury,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: she was not yet completely unresponsive, as she reportedly still
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: was gasping for air. A Metro employee then went to
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: find help and returned with a police officer named Inspector Laval.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Now he approached Letitia and tried to question her, asking
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: her who had stabbed her, but she was unable to
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: give him an answer. The injury to her neck was
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: severe enough that even though she was still alive, she
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: couldn't do anything to identify her attacker or explained what
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: had happened inside that carriage. Now apparently inspected Laval then
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: took hold of the knife and pulled it from Letitia's neck,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: which anyone in any sort of medical field or who
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: has any sort of like first aid training, you know
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: not to remove a foreign object that's impaled in a victim,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: because the impaled object not only can cause more damage
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: on the way out, but it actually can seal the
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: wound pretty well, and removing it while it opens everything
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: up and makes bleeding considerably worse.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I don't have any training, and I knew that though too.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh no, that ain't good.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: So in this case, once the blade was pulled, blood
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: flowed heavily from the injury and spread across the floor
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: of the carriage. Letitia was soon removed from the train
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: and transported towards Saint Antoine Hospital, and she died before
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: she made it there, meaning Letitia Torreau was dead at
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: twenty nine years old.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, that is just frickin' awful, but also so
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: messed up. I'm having trouble even understanding how that happened.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Well so are police, because this is called the impossible
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: murder for a reason, so there's so much about this.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: You have an individual enter a train car alone, a.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: First class though, so I'm assuming that should also kind
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: of be like the safest potential exactly.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And then not only that, the cars on either side
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: of her are packed, so you have people all around
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: an empty car. Then it leaves one station within nine seconds,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: it arrives at another, and when the door's open, there's
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: still nobody else around. But she's murdered. The doors open,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: no one leaves, no one's seen inside. She's just stabbed,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm kind of assuming they're kind of going towards
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: like a suicide type thing. Is that people's first initial thought.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll get into the ideas and the possibilities. Okay,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So police had to deal with both the carriage and
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the people who had entered it. The three women who
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: were questioned at the station so that they had not
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: seen anyone leave the first class compartment as the train
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: arrived at the port. Now they were waiting there for it,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: so if anyone were leaving, they surely would have said
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that they saw them, But neither of them had noticed
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: anyone else other than just Letitia, which is very significant
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: because if anyone had attacked her during the journey, in theory,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: they needed to get out of that carriage when the
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: train reached the station, but not everyone who witnessed the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: aftermath and behind for questioning in this sort of fashion. Though,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Raymond del Burill, his fiance, and their friend they left
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the station, forcing police to locate them later.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Debraill explained that once he saw that there was no
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: hope of helping Letitia, he wanted to remove his fiance
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: from the scene and avoid becoming involved in a scandal
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: surrounding a murder. His clothing had also been staying with
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: blood while he was inside the carriage trying to help
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: out and the group. They were on their way to
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: see a play, so he wanted to return home change
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: his clothes, and continue on with their evening. Police eventually
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: found and questioned them, but the group could provide no
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: explanation for how Letitia had been attacked. They didn't see
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: anyone either, so the basic problem facing investigators was already apparent.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Letitia appeared to have entered the carriage alone, then less
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: ninety seconds later she arrived with a knife in her neck.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Yet none of the witnesses waiting at the Porte de'or
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: could identify anyone leaving the carriage when the train arrived.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: How is that possible? Now, the attacker had also left
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that weapon behind, giving police at least one physical object
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that could potentially begin to examine and try and trace.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: But as far as the scene goes, well, it had
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: already been disturbed by passengers entering the carriage, people moving
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: around Letitia trying to help her, the removal of the knife,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: and removal of her body too. These actions were very
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: understandable in an effort to save a woman who was
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: still alive at the time, but it complicated police work
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: as it muddled the scene. Even still, the physical scene
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: itself offered very little. There's no clear evidence, I mean,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: other than the knife. But as far as a prolonged struggle.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Inside the carriage, they could see nothing. Letitia had not
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: been robbed. Her belongings were still there. Her handbag contained
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: identification papers, cosmetics, jewelry, and approximately ninety six francs in cash,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: along with the booklet containing twenty metro tickets. Police also
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: found letters and personal notes among her belongings, though would
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: eventually give investigators several names to pursue, but at the
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: carriage itself, their immediate importance was simpler. Latitia's money, jewelry,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: and personal property had been left behind, meaning whoever attacked
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: her had apparently made no attempt to empty her purse
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: take valuables, which meant robbery was an unlikely motive. Now,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: the strongest piece of physical evidence was still that knife,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: which was consistently identified as a legule type folding knife,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: measuring approximately eight to nine inches in total length with
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: a bone handle, and the handle was also reportedly well
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: having no fingerprints on it, so police attempted to determine
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: whether the knife had been purchased, and apparently the particular
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: model of knife was available from only two stores in Paris,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: but both were large retail stores and kept no useful
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: records identifying any sort of individual purchasers, and when the
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: autopsy was performed by the well known Paris forensic pathologist
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: doctor Charles Paul, he found no significant injuries, suggesting that
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Letitia had fought back against her attacker before being stabbed.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: There was essentially one wound inflicted with considerable force from
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: behind or from an angle that she apparently did not
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: see coming. The blade had entered the back of her neck,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: right behind the right ear, and it severed her jugular vein.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: The knife penetrated deeply enough that the tip actually reached
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: or became embedded near the spinal column. Now, an injury
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: like this would likely have caused almost immediate paralysis or
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: even loss of consciousness, which offered a possible explanation for
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: why there had been no sort of struggle and why
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: most passengers heard nothing. Doctor Paul also considered the mechanics
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: of the attack. One reconstruction attributed to him that had
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the attacker approaching Letitia from behind, controlling or pulling her
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: upper b towards the left, and then driving the knife
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: into the right side of her neck, and the depth
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: of the penetration the position of the wound, while it
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: made suicide very implausible in his opinion. Soon investigators began
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: describing the killing as possibly professional, meaning she could have
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: been killed by an assassin, though there was no proof
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of it. What they did know, though, was that the
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: assault had been extremely efficient. There had been one devastating wound,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: no obvious struggle, no attempt to search for or sorry
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: searched through Letitia's belongings, and they left the knife behind.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And in fact, leaving the knife is actually pretty interesting
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and could support the assassin theory because not only does
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: it save time for the person needing to escape, but
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: also well, as we talked about, leaving the weapon in
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: keeps blood in which means the attacker would not be
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: exposed to as much blood, so when they leave, there's
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: less blood on them, making them able to blend in easier.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Huh See. I'm almost wondering too, if she like got
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: stabbed as everyone was like hustling and bustling into these
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: train cars, so like got stabbed, and then the person
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: like sat them, sat her down and left. It's sort
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: of what I'm almost wondering, And that because it doesn't
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: make sense that someone would be in the train car, right,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: because how would they hide in there? I don't know.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: That's just like my brain going okay.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll let your brain go because this is an
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: interesting story, and so that's what you need to do
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: is get creative in your mind like that. Now, police
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: were left with the practical problem of how the murder
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: had escaped, though exactly kind of what you're talking about.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: So many retellings, they often turn the first class carriage
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: into a completely sealed room with locked connecting doors, making
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: escape impossible once train is actually moving. That's not entirely true.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Movement between cars would have been noticeable and extremely difficult,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: but investigators did not regard the compartment as physically impossible
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: to enter or leave while the train was traveling. Now
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: that's not to say that it would not have been
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: like extremely hard to do so I don't know if
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: the doors on either end would have been locked. Again,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: this is a case from the thirties, so a lot
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: of the surviving evidence and stuff it's really hard to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: actually get accurate. Was it documented promptly, It was probably
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: lost through time. What I do know is investigators say
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that it was not impossible to enter or exit, just
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: extremely difficult, at the very least to do so without
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: being noticed.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, but also to the things that we think today,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: like our safety that we have on you know, a
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: skytrain or something, would be a lot different than back then.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Oh right, So maybe those doors do not just automatically lock.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Right, Oh, I would imagine that they don't automatically lock.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: But even still, say they're not locked. Say someone did
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: go into the first class car with her. Other people
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: probably would have seen someone go in, but let's just
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: say they didn't. Maybe they were hiding in there, waiting
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: in there already. Okay, so they're in that first class car,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: they're traveling. He kills Letitia. Now he has to go
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: through these presumed unlocked doors into one of the other cars.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: It's a packed car. There's a lot of people in there.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: They're going to notice someone coming from inside that carriage
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to this carriage. Someone's going to notice that door opening.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Unless it's right as everyone is like leaving, if you
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: plan your timing, everyone's distracted and they're just worrying about
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: themselves getting off the train. Yeah, that's actually a probably
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't look behind you and notice someone.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Walking in a lot of noise, a lot of you know,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: hustle and bustle, happening. Yeah, if you time it right
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and are quiet enough, you probably could get away.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Because I'm thinking, like, if you're an assassin, you're able
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: to do shit like that.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just picturing like a ninja moving through the night. Well, yes,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: in a train compartment.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know like you would you would think of that,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: like I'm gonna I'm going to enter this so called
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: empty train while everyone's getting on or something, or when
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: people are distracted, and I'm going to exit as well
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: when everyone is distracted, you know, like you would think
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: that way.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: My next sentence is literally One possibility was that the
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: murderer had traveled with Letitia and somehow slipped away during
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the confusion when the train stopped.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Another was that the attack had happened while the
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: train was moving, and the killer had found some way
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: into another carriage right maybe at the end when they
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: had stopped, with all the confusion and everything happening, but
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: still no explanation could fit comfortably within the witness accounts.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: That's the big one. But a third possibility actually changed
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: this timeline entirely. Reporters from Detective, which is a friend
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: weekly crime magazine Slash newspaper at the time attempted to
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: reconstruct the events shortly after the murder and tried to
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: explain what had happened, and instead of assuming Letitia had
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: been alive when the train was moving, they considered whether
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: someone could have followed her into the first class train
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and then quickly and quietly strike with a knife, leaving
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: it in place, then step back onto the platform and
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: enter one of the regular carriages along with everybody else,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and then when it departs and gets to its next stop,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: they simply vanish.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'm thinking here in this case, I feel
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: like a lot of the shit that is going in
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: my brain is like things that actually might have happened.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And honestly, in this recreation too, they believe that
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: this sequence of events could have happened in approximately only
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: twenty seconds.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Dang, in twenty seconds, this like vibrant young woman just
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: loses her life. I don't know. Don't like it.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Now. You also have to consider the injury too. If
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the neck wound immediately immobilized Lutitia, her body could have
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: remained upright against the seat long enough for people to
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: look through the window and assume she was simply sitting
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: there quietly, because that's the thing too. People see this
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: lady enter there, sit down, and she's sitting peacefully waiting
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: for the train to depart. But she could be paralyzed
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: because that knife struck her spinal column.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, the person that did this just like
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: sat her down, yep. And then there's nothing she can do.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And then so once the train reached its next destination,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the breaking and the stopping, yeah, that jostled her enough
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: for her to topple over and then oh my god,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: there's the knife and she's been attacked.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: That doesn't super make sense though, I guess with the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: scream that was heard, right, because that was heard later, But.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: There was only two men who reportedly believe they could
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: have heard a scream. Oh okay, Now you also have
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: to think trains nineteen thirties. They could train stopping, the squealing,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the screeching. Was it a scream or did they hear
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: something else?
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Right? It could very much so sound probably like a scream, yeap.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: But with this scenario of this twenty second attack, the
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: murderer goes in, sits her down, and returns into another
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: compartment with everyone else. Before the train even leaves. There's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: no need for the murderer to escape from a moving
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: train at all. He's already gone before it even leaves,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: so he could have easily been just sitting among the
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: other passengers. Now, it was a workable reconstruction, but there
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: was no witness who could confirm it. That's all it
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: was was reconstruction and a theory. And with the physical
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: evidence failing to identify an attacker, Commission Baden and the
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: investigators working in the case began looking more closely at
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Letitia herself to see if they could find more evidence
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: in her life. And the question was no longer how
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: had someone managed to kill her? They were wanting to
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: see who might have wanted her dead why. Investigators searched
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Letitia's home, and what they found initially seemed consistent with
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: a woman you know that we expect her to be
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and everyone that her family and coworker described. She was
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: a twenty nine year old widow living alone, and some
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: of her possessions had come from her marriage to Jewels Tourou.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Her jewelry and clothing, though, would actually soon start attracting
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: considerable attention from newspapers, where reporters began to question how
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: a factory worker could afford things like this, but there
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: were some ordinary explanations for much of it. As we know.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: The green outfit, for example, that she wore, had been
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: made by her mother, Some of the furniture or jewelry
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: had belonged to her husband, and Letitia had several sources
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: of income beyond just the factory wages, because she did
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: some work at some of these dance halls too, so
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: there were explanations for that. However, the more interesting discovery
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: was her correspondence. Police had already found letters and notes
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: among her belongings, the ones that she carried with her,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: and also additional letters that showed several men had been
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: a part of her life since Jules's death. Some letters
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: were romantic, others were friendly, and none contained a direct
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: threat that neatly explained why she had been murdered. But
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: they did, however, give investigators names to work through. One
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: of the most important was Renee Shram, a soldier stationed
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: at Longway close to the Magnot line. Renee had written
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: to Letitia regularly, and his letters indicated that the relationship
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: between them was serious enough for him to even mention
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the idea of marriage. Although police briefly suspected he could
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: be the killer, investigators couldn't place him inside the Metro
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: carriage or connect him with the murder weapon. Another man
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: appearing in the investigation was Jean Martin. He was a
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: sailor associated with Toulon, one of France's most important naval ports.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Among Letitia's possession was a note concerning a meeting with
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: a man named Jean after that night. Another document specified
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: it was around ten pm. Now, the existence of that
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: meeting was significant because it showed that Letitia boarded the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Metro on May sixteenth, and she expected to continue her evening.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: If she was going to go meet this John at
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: ten pm, she clearly was not suicidal. So not only
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: was it implausible that she did the injury herself, it
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: seems that she had plans for the rest of the night,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: saying why would she kill herself?
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that it wasn't like a suicide thing. It
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: didn't seem like she would really, it didn't seem like
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: her life would be so terrible that she didn't feel
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: the need to do that.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, with multiple relationships coming to light, a crime
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of passion became an obvious avenue for investigators. Perhaps one
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: of the men had discovered another relationship she was in.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Perhaps some had been rejected. Perhaps the attack on the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: train was a personal attack. Police worked through the men
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: that they could identify or outside Paris at relevant times.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Others had alibis. But most importantly, investigators could not physically
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: connect any of the known romantic suspects to the knife
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: or the first class carriage that night. But there were
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: other relationships to examine as well. One was that of
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Giovanni Gasparine. During his police interrogation, Giovanni said that his
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: relationship with Letitia had lasted only a few months, that
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: they had remained friends afterwards. Now Giovanni was actually married,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: which provides an obvious reason for this affair to end,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: but there was nothing police found that established Giovanni as
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: the man who attacked her. As investigators reconstructed more of
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Letitia's private life, the press began doing the same thing
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: with far less restraints, though, because obviously investigators need proof,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: while the press, well, it's not so much.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: They can just go on a haunch.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Really exactly, her relationships, nightlife, good clothing, an occasional use
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: of first class were increasingly treated as evidence that Letitia
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: may have actually been hiding something. Reports portrayed Letitia at
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: various times in the press as a seductress, a prostitute,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: or a woman living well beyond the means of an
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: ordinary factory worker, which is kind of funny because just
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: because someone has money doesn't mean they're a sex worker
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: or anything. That's kind of absurd. But by all accounts
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: this was not true. She had wages from her factory job,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: earned money through these dance hall works, and she had
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: other employment that police were actually only beginning to understand
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: and that we will dive into here. See, she frequented
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: many dance halls around Paris and its suburbs. These were
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: not inherently criminal places. They were social venues filled with dancing, music, drinking, etc.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: But the same establishments could attract criminals. They might have,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: you know, works and immigrants and ordinary families coming along
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: for fun evenings, but here you could have some gang members,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: political activists, police informants, and even private investigators conducting searches surveillance.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: It was also around this part of her life when
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the name Yulandi kept popping up. Newspapers seized on it
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: as proof that Letitia maintained a secret identity, but that
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: couldn't have been true because even her own family occasionally
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: used that name Yulandi, So that meant it wasn't necessarily
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: an elaborate false persona invented to deceive all the people
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: around her. But still there were now enough inconsistencies to
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: keep investigators interested in this possible idea of there being
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: something else to her life. And then police discovered something
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: far more concrete, and that was that Letitia did in
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: fact have another job. See, Letitia had been working for
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a private detective agency, carrying out surveillance assignments under a
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: private detective named George's Ruffignac. Surviving records indicate that Georges
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: had used her on at least thirteen separate assignments. The
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: discovery that Letitia had worked for a private detective agency
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: changed the direction of this entire investigation because basically speaking,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Letitia is a secret fucking agent.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I kind of think I was like thinking this is badass,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: but am I allowed you? No, you are here everyone
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: thinking that she's just a friggin sex worker or something
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: like with the rumors and stuff, and here she's like
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: a frickin undercover spy.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Right, huh, So not only this. Not only is she
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: loving to go out dancing, not only is she enjoying
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: this night life and conversing with people, she's a secret
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: agent doing it for fucking actual purposes. She's going out
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: there talking to people, making connections, hearing rumors, and she's
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: working and then she goes and takes a fucking first
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: class train ride home. What a badass bitch on I say.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Now, I know, but I guess also that the police
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: are interested in this because it could have put her
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: in some sort of danger or risk. There's risk associated
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: to it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly, and like she's being paid to watch people, follow them,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: report on their movements, so she could definitely have made
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of enemies in doing so. Now, she'd been
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: doing work this kind of work at least during the
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: summer of nineteen thirty six, often using the name Yolandi,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: with the assignments including following husbands suspected of adultery, locating addresses,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: and observing people on behalf of several different clients. Now,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: George's told investigators that Letitia had seemed experienced and very capable,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: even suggesting that she was already understanding surveillance work before
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: she even began working with him.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: However, only days after that, his description of her changed.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: He instead said that she was an amateur whose reports
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: were clumsy and needed basic instruction. Why he changed his opinion,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: We don't know.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: That's really odd because that is one end of the
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: spectrum to the other exactly. I don't like that.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, the later version did not sit comfortably with
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: a number of assignments that she had actually completed, with
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: some of the positions Georges himself appeared to have helped
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: even arrange for her. One of those positions was, in fact,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: her job at the factory. What coworkers had understood as
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: an ordinary industrial employee served a different purpose there.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Apparently George's helped place Letitia at the factory that she
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: worked at after management wanted someone who could quietly report
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: on union activities and possible communist organizations among the workforce.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: So she was a plant at her own fucking job.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: So she wasn't just a factory worker.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: She wasn't even a factory worker. Yeah, she was literally
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: a secret agent.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: She was there on a different type of job.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So there she worked beside people every day without
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: appearing to be gathering information about them. Even though she was.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Her work in Paris dance halls also took on different
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: meanings too, especially when working in the cloak room, which is,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: as I said, like the co check, because there an
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: attendant had legitimate reason to see who was coming and
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: going right, they could see who people met, who passes
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: messages and returns regularly, and cloak rooms they were sometimes
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: used as discreete places to exchange information or objects. One
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: witness also claimed that Latitia had attempted to recruit other
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: women for similar observation work in these dance halls, and
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: if accurate, that suggests that she was doing more than
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: occasionally following an unfaithful husband. For Georgie's she understood how
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: useful an apparently ordinary woman could be in a cafe,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: a factory, or a dance hall, especially in places where
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: a known male detective would have attracted considerable more attention.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: There were indications that her relationship with law enforcement went
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: beyond private detective work too. Surviving police finals described Letitia
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: as having worked as a mouche, which is essentially a
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: low level police informant. One of the investigators on the case,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Jean Belin, would later write that he was unwilling to
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: state absolutely that she had been an informer, but it
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: appeared likely that several police officers may have known about it.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: So she's on the low low because you have police
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: saying that they're not even sure about it, but it
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: seems like other police do know about it. So again,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: secret fucking.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Agent and honestly does seem like she's good at her job. Yeah,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: especially if she's in a position too where she could
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: potentially be recruiting you know, other people.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Well, and the fact that her boss, George's, is putting
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: her in these positions or is he going to put
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: an amateur in these positions in a factory, you know,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: something like that, in a factory where you're informing for
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: an entire union.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where things would go real wrong, real quick.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Right, That's that's not an amateur. No, an amateur might
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: be following a husband who's going off and having a
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: rendezvous with you know, a secret fucking side piece.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, I feel like the position she is in,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: even in the dance halls and stuff, she would have
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: to have quite a confidence to her right, definitely, So
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: you'd have to be quite good at your job be
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: able to pull these kind of things off.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: So is George is trying to cover something up? Maybe
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I don't like him now all of a sudden now.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Investigators also learned that Letitia belonged to an organization called
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the Republican League for the Public Good. Members required sponsorship
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: from existing members, and some of the people who had
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: sponsored Letitia had connections to police and private detective work too.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Her Italian background also became increasingly relevant. French police in
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties closely monitored the large Italian immigrant community,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: which included both supporters of fascist dictator Benito Mussolini and
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: opponents who had fled Fascist Italy. There were also claims
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: that Letitia had connections to the Italian embassy and may
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: have even provided information to Italian intelligence, although the evidence
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: for those claims is much less certain. What investigators could establish, though,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: was that she had contacts with far right political circles,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: adding another layer to the secretive work that she was doing. Still,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: there was another possible police connection as well. One of
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the supplied French accounts says Letitia may have helped expose
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: a cocaine trade operation from the toilets at one of
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the dance halls. That she was providing information about. She
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: was basically telling officers about narcotics that was going on here.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: All in all, by the summer of nineteen thirty seven,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: the more police learned about the circles that she moved through,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: the more her murder began to overlap with the political
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: violence spreading through France at the time, and the investigation
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: had begun moving into a much more dangerous part of
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Letitia's life. In fact, police were looking at her possible
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: connections to a secret organization known as La Cagoul now.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: La Cagoul was a far right organization operating in France
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: during the nineteen thirties. The group was strongly anti communist
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and opposed much of the left wing French government at
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: the time, but this was much more than a political organization.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: La Cagoul operated in secret, collected large quantities of weapons
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: and explosives, and was willing to use violence against its enemies.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Members of the organization would eventually be connected to bombings
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: and even political assassinations. Now the group was led by
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Eugene Deloncel and operated through a network of secret calls,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: weapons hid underground in caches and transported through France. In
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: smuggling networks, and the ultimate goal was to help bring
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: down the existing French government and replace it with a
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: much more authoritarian one. This became important to Letitia's murder
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: because investigators began finding connections between her and people associated
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: with this organization. One of those people was Gabrielle Jeannette,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: a member of Lecagoul who was involved in smuggling weapons
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: into France. Some later accounts have described Jeannette as one
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: of Letitia's lovers, although the evidence for that exact nature
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: of their relationship is rather unclear. But what mattered more
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: to investigators was that the possibility of this was Letitia
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: had gained access to information about the group's illegal weapon network,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: and there were indications that she had been gathering information
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: about weapons being moved into France and passing what she
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: knew to authorities. She was a mole, considering what police
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: had already discovered about her work as a private detective,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: and possible even as an informant. This was not unlikely,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: as it might initially have sounded crazy, but how could
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: it be? She has the background Letitia had experienced following people,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: gathering information and quietly reporting what she learned and According
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: to one account, Lacagoul eventually began to suspect exactly that.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: So the organization, it seems, may have decided to test
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: whether Letitia was secretly passing information to police. Allegedly, she
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: was given false information about a vehicle that would be
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: transporting weapons into France from Switzerland. The idea was simple,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: if police suddenly intercept that specific vehicle, La Cagoul would
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: know that someone had passed the information along, and that
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: someone would be Letitia.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Shit, I wasn't expecting any of this. This case is
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: quite different and intense.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is. And guess what authorities stopped that vehicle? Oh?
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I do just have a question. So she
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: was part of this organization.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: She was infiltrating the organization.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: But was she doing that as part of an assignment
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: or was she just doing that on her own?
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: No, she was doing it was an assignment. She was
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: working with authorities.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, So she was never part of this organization really
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: other than just being an informant.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: She was pretending she was part of it. She's an informant.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: She's a secret agent. Remember, Okay, that's what she is.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: She is doing this as a secret agent. Yeah, so like,
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: this is getting quite.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Dangerous everything she's doing as a secret agent. This could
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: be a literal fucking Hollywood movie. She is a government
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: agent based I mean, maybe not government, but she's a
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: third party secret fucking agent working for the government.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Holy frick.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, or at least working for the police. Uah.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Like it's like a lot. It's hard. It's hard almost
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: to wrap your head around it. For some reason, it
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: is of how you, I guess initially, like describe her
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: and stuff. It's like, holy shit.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Because that's who she's supposed to be, that's who we
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: see her ass who she shows the public ass. She's
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: the pretty girl in the handmade green dress taking the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: first class car ride heading over to a dance hall
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: for a fun evening with friends and to meet new people.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Where she just works at a factory for some money.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: But I don't love how the story ends. How does it? Oh?
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but you know how does it end? You
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: don't know how it ends?
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: D No. But I'm just like I I want her
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: to live in and survive in and to keep kicking ass.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately that's not the case. Now back to this vehicle
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: that got stopped though of course when they searched it,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: the weapons supposedly being transported were not there, right, because
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: it was false information planted. Yeah, and now so if
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: the story was accurate, the shipment was a trap and
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Letitia had been given false information and she passed it
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: to authorities and lecu Ghoul now believed that she was
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: in fact the informant they were after. There is an
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: important problem with this story. Though most of it could
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: not be independently confirmed. It's all alleged. I mean, since
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: it was from an underground political organization, right, it's understandable
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: that it couldn't be verified, but that means investigators couldn't
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: prove it. What they did, though, was take take it seriously.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: They took the broader possibilities of it seriously. That Letitia
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: had obtained information about leak of Ghouls weapons activity and
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: passed it to authorities. So much of the stuff we're
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: talking about is alleged. There is evidence and proof that
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: she was in fact doing some secret surveillance work, but
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: to what extent it goes, there's a lot of question
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: marks surrounding it. Now, all this gave police something that
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: they had been searching for since May, a possible motive
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: for her murder. If Letitia had infiltrated the organization or
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: obtained information from people connected to it, then someone may
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: have wanted to stop her from talking. Her relationships with
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: some of the men investigators had encountered earlier had also
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: actually been reconsidered because now this was a whole new light.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: They may not have been purely romantic partners. Some of
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: these men could have been sources of information for people
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: that Letitia was watching. Even the way that she had
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: been killed attracted new attention. Letitia had been attacked quickly
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: and with a single devastated stab wound to the neck.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: The knife had been left embedded in her body, and
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: some investigators believe that this method actually resembled a deliberate
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: political assassination. For months, there was no way to establish
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: whether Laca Ghoul really had anything to do with her death.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: The organization operated secretly and police were still trying to
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: understand the size in activities of it. But then on
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: November nineteen thirty seven, everything changed. Police began rating Laca
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Ghul's operations and discovered hitting cases containing weapons and explosives
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: members of the organization. They were arrested. They were questioned
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: and investigators finally had the opportunity to hear from people
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: who had actually operated inside the group from firsthand, basically,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: and during these interrogations the murder of Letitia Thereau came up.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Two men provided particularly important pieces of information for nand
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: jeqbs and ourner associated with Lacagoul, told police that another member,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Jean Felilo, had personally admitted to killing Letitia and Renee. Pierre.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Jules Lacutti, a twenty seven year old engineer employee at
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: the Michelin works, gave a formal statement on January seventh,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, saying his superiors had told him that
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Lacagoul was in fact responsible for her death and that
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the organization had been following her all because of her
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: intelligence activities. Now, neither of these men had witnessed the
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: murder themselves. They were in Lacagoul, for sure, but one
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: was repeating information he said came from within the organization,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: while the other's allegations depended upon an admission he claimed
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: someone else had made directly to him. But by January fourth,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, the allegations had reached the newspapers, and
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: they reported that Letitia had been condemned to death after
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: betraying Lacagoul. That explanation fitted what investigators had learned about her, weapons, surveillance,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: and possible involvement in undercover stuff in all this, and
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: it gave them something that the case lacked from the
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: very beginning, a specific organization, a possible motive, and now
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: even the name of a possible killer. Jean Filio. He
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: was known as one of Lacagoul's of violent operatives and
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: was associated with other political killings too. But no matter
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: what police did, they could not place Jean on board
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: the train of number three eight to two that day.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: No fingerprint, no eye witness, or no physical evidence from
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: the carriage connected him directly to Letitia. But even still,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: the testimonies themselves were not completely reliable. Some statements implicated Lacagoul,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: and they were later disputed or even retracted. And even
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Renee Well he one of those guys who was talking
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: earlier from within Lacagoul. He withdrew his account later too. Now,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: in March fifth, nineteen thirty eight, Commissioner Charles Chenviller completed
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: a report on the investigation. After examining the difficult leads
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: His conclusion was that the trails surrounding Letitia's murder ultimately
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: led towards the CSAR, which is another name essentially for Lacagoul,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: but it was still not proof, only a direction. The
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: investigation never managed to close that gap between the solved
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and unsolved. War began in September of nineteen thirty nine,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: France soon faced invasion and occupation, and Letitia's case was
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: pushed aside. More than a decade after the murder. However,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: a completely different suspect unexpectedly brought police back to the story.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: In March of nineteen forty eight, a man identified as
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Lucyn Hill was confined in a psychiatric institution and he
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: wrote to police claiming that he had murdered Letitia. He
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: had a history of violence, had killed a woman with
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: a knife before, and had even been questioned during the
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: original investigation, so police took that confession seriously enough to
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: interview him and conducted a reconstruction of what he said happened,
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: but ultimately his account did not survive scrutiny. Most significantly,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: he placed the murder at approximately one pm, when Letitia
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: had actually been attacked shortly after six twenty seven PM,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: and he could provide no information that only the killer
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: would have known, so police dismissed that confession as unreliable.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Then came another confession in nineteen sixty two, when an
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: anonymous letter was sent to police. The writer claimed they
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: had been born in Perpignon in nineteen fifteen and had
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: studied medicine in Paris in nineteen thirty six and nineteen
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: thirty seven. They said that they had become obsessed with
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Letitia and claimed that jealousy and rejection had eventually driven
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: him to kill her. Now this version also offered a
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: simple explanation for the apparently impossible escape from the empty
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: train car. He claimed to have followed Letitia on the
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: bus by car and entered the train station behind her
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: on foot. Then, once she sat alone in first class,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: he followed her into the carriage and stabbed her in
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: the neck with the knife. Then, rather than remained aboard
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: first class, he supposedly left the compartment before the train departed,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: moved into second class, and traveled to the next stop
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: with all the other people. Then, when Letitia was discovered,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: he simply left with the crowd. Now, the story is
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: in fact very plausible, but in nineteen sixty two. The
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: same basic escape method had been public knowledge for at
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: least twenty five years at that point, and the letter
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: will have offered no verifiable identity or clear connection to
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: the weapon. It could have been constructed from an old
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: newspaper report entirely. Is what this basically means.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Going to ask you, so like this was common knowledge,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: a theory that was common knowledge.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, so the letter offered no new information, only common
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: knowledge information which could have been pulled from articles. In fact,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I could probably write that like in ten minutes, because
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: I know the story. It's already public knowledge. I could
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: write it and submit it to police and it would
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: be no different right now. That left the murder where
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: it had begun. In May of nineteen thirty seven, police
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: had developed substantial reason to suspect Lacagoul and had even
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: been given a name, Jean Fililo. He had been named
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: the killer, but no reliable evidence could prove that he
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: physically attacked Letitia, and to this day we still don't
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: know who killed Letitia throw It's said to be an
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: impossible murder, killed in under ninety seconds in a moving train,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: and by the time the train stops there is no
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: killer to be seen. The only person who knows the
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: truth on how she was killed would have taken and
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: their secret to the grave. And now all that's left
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: is theories, stories and Letitia Toureu's grave where she was
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: buried in Parisian Cemetery of Thesis and therefore remains the
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: victim of one of Paris's most famous and impossible unsolved murders.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: And that's the story of Letitia to Row.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Well, shit, this is one I really wanted to know
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an unsolved case. And I didn't tell you
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: at the very beginning. It was unsolved for very specific reason,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: because that is too good of a story to tell
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: you what happens at the end.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is like an incredible story. It almost just
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: seemed not true, almost like it almost seemed like I
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: was just listening to it like a made up book.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I know, it seems so over the top dramatic, But
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: this is a real story. She was a real informant,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: a real undercover operative. It's just a matter of how
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: far her work went that we are not exactly certain.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: So do you have a what's your thoughts?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Oh? I think we can pretty well paint the picture
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: of what happened. I mean, who killed her. It's probably
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: someone from.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: La Ca cagoul Yes, okay, yeah.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: This individual Jean, likely him, I guess because well, most
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: people it seemed like, well at least a couple of
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: people were saying it pointed towards him. So let's just
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: take this guy. We know that it's likely using the
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: crowd as cover. Move in, quick, stab, leave, get in
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: the compartment. I think that's probably what happened, because the
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: person who killed her could not have been in the
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: compartment when the train arrived, period, cannot be in there.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: I think someone would have noticed if someone goes through
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: the train car into another train car. Imagine being in
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: the second class car looking in through the window at
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: the first class seeing that person sitting there. You're gonna
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: tell me you don't notice if someone else comes through.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: You do have a good point though, when you're leaving
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: the car, maybe they came through.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: But even still, also, I just feel like lots of times,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know, this could be different, but on when
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: you're at the skytrain or whatever in Vancouver, like people
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: aren't they're just sort of like almost zoning out too,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: like you're just waiting to get to your next destination
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: kind of thing, like, are you really present and taking
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: everything in and you know, even registering what's going around
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: near you when you're just kind of just scrolling through
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: your day to day.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: That is true, but we do also live in a
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: much more fast paced society, a much more disassociated society.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not staring at phones back then.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Back then there was a lot more socializing back then. Yeah,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: a lot more time and care free. And not to
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: say it wasn't rough. I mean, you're approaching war and
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. There's certainly things to be concerned about.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: But the way you approach someone on the bus next
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: to you, or the train next to you, or walking
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: by the street might be tipping your hat, good morning,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: milady or something like that. Who knows, I don't know.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Today people just look past you if you say good
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: morning to someone. Now, often in a city like that,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: you get scoffed at, like fucking leave me alone.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, isn't that odd? Hey?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think people would have been much more perceptive,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: much more talkative, much more understanding of what's going on.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I do think that you have a point that, yes,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: a person could slip through the train cars as people
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: are leaving. That is very likely, but you still have
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: to hide in the train car for those ninety seconds
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: when the train's traveling. People look through that window, people
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: can see what's going on. I think the murder took
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: place before the train left. The person slipped in with
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: everyone else, then the train left, and it.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: Wasn't actually a scream that someone had heard.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Huh, what a freaking story. I don't know. The poor
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: thing like, but it's sort of I mean her, Yeah,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like she also like I
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: was gonna be like, she had an awesome life, but
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: did she Like her husband died so that must have
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: been like ridiculously hard. But like, I don't know. Just
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: the story that's coming from her life does paint her
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: as like, you know, a badass motherfucker, which is kind
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: of cool.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: I guess do you want to go ahead and name it?
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Say it?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: Well, is she a badass?
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: She's a badass.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: She's a badass. Yeah, no, she is.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: She might not be a badass in the same sense
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: as like a survivor surviving something incredibly but she's a
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: badass in the same sense. Yeah, you know, a policeman
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: is doing his fucking work and making sure something happens.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: What she's doing is some badass shit. Yeah she's bass and.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: She was pretty damn good at it until I guess, well,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I mean what she the assignment that she had here
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: would have been pretty darn tough, that last one, right,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: And yeah, she didn't make it out alive.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was literally infiltrating a political activist, underground activist
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: group that was smuggling weapons and trying to overthrow the government.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: And she was infiltrating that.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: See. And I do love when people get this perception
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: of who someone is and then all of a sudden
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: it's like, fuck, no, this is actually me. So that
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: that is like damn cool. So yeah she is a badass.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: That is cool. Yep, But yeah, it does suck that
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: she died.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I do have to admit one thing we watched that
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: was it Netflix or on Prime That one show with
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Hannah Waddington recently where.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: She was oh yeah.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: I'm literally picturing this entire time Letitia as Hannah Waddington
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: just saying, oh man, not like Hannah Waddington's a badass too,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: She's fucking amazing. She's gorgeous, and I just picture that
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: is Letitia.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: She's too old for this role, though, but someone else should.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: They should make a movie out of this.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: They should, I wonder if they have, because they fucking should.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not saying like that that actress is old. Gosh,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: some one's gonna be well she just well yeah, and
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: this this gal is twenty nine, right, I mean, if
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: they're going to like get someone to play her role,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: it would have to probably be someone a bit younger.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that would make a good movie if you
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: want to be age accurate. Sure, but I mean you
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: could flub age a little bit. Oh no, Latitia's suddenly
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: fifty instead of thirty.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: There was this show I watched recently too, where they
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: had made the guy look quite a lot older, and
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, but it was just like it was
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: his forehead, Like they gave him like these pretty harsh wrinkles. Yeah,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: and I thought something looked a little bit off of them, right,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: So I just googled this actor to see how old
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: he actually was, and he was in his freaking twenty
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, they're just doing that to make him
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: look more I.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Don't know, aging him up or whatever.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for the show and wisdom.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: They're making him look wiser.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: So he's always drowned and trying to figure things out
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't know, but so yeah, you can
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: do a lot.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: I might have got a bunch of wrinkles just researching
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: this case because I was trying to figure stuff out
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: this whole fucking time and I did not wish I did,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: but I didn't.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: I know this would be a good one to have solved. Yeah.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Anyways, thank you guys for being here. We seriously appreciate you.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: If you want to check the description of this podcast,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: I fumbled that a little bit, but that's okay. If
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: you want to check the description of this podcast. For
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: our socials, we'd appreciate that. You can see a lot
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: about us on our website, all those cool things. Connect
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: with us, shoot us a message in your opinion of this.
• 1:06:12
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• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: good stuff.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: I'll leave it at that, and until next time, stay.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: Wicked A B A B absolute o.