Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 533 - Why Are Children Of The Vietnam War Still Searching For Their Roots? - Derek Powell

Transcript

533 - Why Are Children Of The Vietnam War Still Searching For Their Roots? - Derek Powell · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast today.
• 0:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have Derek Patel with me, so sorry.
• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Derek has a little bit of many hotels across.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought I was so scared.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't get to joke around a lot on the podcast, so I, you know, but the direct poll is actually actually has roots in Kentucky.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So he is actually half Vietnamese mothers from Kentucky, fathers, a black American.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I really appreciate you reaching out and thanks to Carolyn Gillin, Valverde for having you come on the podcast today.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely been looking for this for to this for quite a while.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's clear up the whole Derek Petal thing.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are happy to me.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am happy to meet.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I look into your eyes and I see my dad because my dad was born in Kentucky.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we need to do this 23 in me soon.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So tell me, you have a mixed heritage, tell me about how your mom and dad met and I mean, you're telling me earlier.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know it's sensitive, but the way you dance around it, why you're telling me is, you know, it's curious.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, you know, my mother had worked at the local NCO club in Kanto.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: NCO club is a non-commissioned officer on base, right?
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so she was there as a waitress.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my father, who was in the Air Force at the time, was manager of that NCO club.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's how they met.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know very much about the courtship.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: that they had, or even how long they may have dated, but at some point they decided to get married, and soon after I was born.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, and that was in February of 71.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it was around that time when my dad had actually gotten orders to return back to the U.S.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: initially to Colorado, but eventually here at Marcher for Space and Riverside, and so while he was getting things set up in Colorado, my mom and I were un-rout from a Vietnam to meet up with him.
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Were you the oldest son?
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am the oldest and I have a brother and two sisters and I am the oldest and when you first came you three months old you said right and then you grew up in Riverside, can you turn a little bit about growing up in Riverside because you don't I mean it's hard to peg where you come from and who you are right right.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I was growing up, you know, there was a number of mixed kids, Asian and American, you know, I had Filipino friends, who were mixed, and you know, it was sort of hung out together, right?
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we sort of jelled and we sort of had this connection, but not really, but again, you had to realize that a community I was in was largely based.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: on military personnel that was stationed at March Air Force Base.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you already had an expectation of, oh, if you're mixed, then you're one of your most luck in your dad was stationed at the Air Force Base.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you realize, you know, the number of, you look at the number of Asians in the area of which we decided to settle in.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you look at, whittle that down to the number of Vietnamese, aren't that very many, you know?
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And even if you were to find Vietnamese women, right, most of them may have had, you know, children while they're in Vietnam, but a lot of them did have children while they're in the US.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, yeah, sure there was, you know, friends of mine who are half Vietnamese, half American, but all born here in the US.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's weird because I kind of feel like if you were born in Vietnam, you sort of have like this, this little.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, edge, you know, a little bit of a stronger connection back to the motherland, right?
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: versus so-and-born.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's that any bias or intent for, you know, any type of, you know, consideration, but it's just, it's just like that stronger bond, right?
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there is,
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: an adage in Vietnamese culture.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I, you know, it's a very complicated, pray forward, adage that talks about when you're born in a country.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's something that's very spiritual about, you know, cutting a biblical court in Vietnam.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that my brother, he was six months when he left.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he never really was bothered by many of the things that, you know, it was born here.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, weird separation.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I feel with my brother and my sisters as well, you know, uh, my, you know, I went, I went recently back to Vietnam, back, uh, before COVID, December 29, first time or, uh, wasn't my first time, was my mom's first time going back.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my brother and sisters had no interest of going to Vietnam.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it really, really, really?
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But did they go, I know?
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had, did not go, did not go.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and for me, I think it was important because I had already been there a couple times in early 2000s and I felt like there was a need for my mom to go back and visit, you know, see her brothers and sisters, you know, and kind of see things.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, that experience is a whole different, you know, conversation.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the idea of being able to be very well connected with the Vietnamese community and understanding, not just saying, yeah, sure I'm happy to me, but actually live it and understand the norms.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's really, really important.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: 2005.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, can you describe the feeling?
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so at the time I was working for one of others.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know I was based in Tokyo at the time on a three-year assignment and one of my responsibilities was looking at exploring Vietnam as a market for one of the two distributed legitimate content in market.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I know that they were already licensed source in the market who already buying rights to.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ladies and gentlemen, this is going to be a second episode because this is my wheelhouse talking about
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Derek that that that's a major episode for me.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that we're gonna have to because this is about Derek right now and then Sure because I remember going to Vietnam in the early days and it having no theatrical right exactly.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you were one of the Indian scouts that
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You want one of the scouts that they sent out to see market research to develop.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now they're putting all this like, you know, Mark, all this leads to all the infrastructure there.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everything, right?
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So part of part of what we were trying to do with Derek.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But part of my role there was it'd be able to look at and understand what movies were being shown theatrically, what was being shown on the televisions, right?
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look at the home entertainment market at the time, right in 2005, you're just at the start of DVD, right, and VCD.
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a lot of different dynamics.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have pricing strategies.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of different pieces that you had to basically collect and try to synthesize.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: My first time going to Vietnam, my mother was really opposed to it because she felt like, you know, they're going to throw you in the army.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, because, you know, you have a compensatory requirement, I guess, that's what she understood today.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You were born in the head.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was born in Vietnam.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, mind you too, I'd also, you know, had served in the military.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I went to the Air Force Academy and with an officer and had had, you know, had left the mark, had left the military.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So she's afraid that they would just throw me in the military, right?
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because of that.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, you know, I don't think so.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just a little too old, right, for their taste.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But long story short, you know, I was able to, you know, I'm there for work and, you know, with the help of my mom and some extended family here in Westminster, been able to contact my family in Kentucky.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so when they, when I communicated my, my schedule and what was happening right, I stayed at the Park Hyatt right there in Saigon, very nice hotel, one of my favorite actually in Southeast Asia.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I go in there and I tell the receptionist, I'm expecting a few family members to show it.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Could you just, like, I'm gonna be on a call.
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Could you just, like, let me know, right?
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, no problem.
• 8:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So sure enough, within like the next hour and an hour and a half, I get a call from the front desk and hey, your family's here.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I go in and I see my aunts and uncles.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't just a few family members.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: The entire lobby was full of family.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: They brought everyone, right?
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: All my aunts and uncles, their kids, their, you know, everyone, it just filled up the entire lobby, like, holy, and of course, you know, I'm six to you.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So on the tallest person that's in that lobby, right?
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just overwhelming to see that kind of love and that kind of, and mind you, I didn't realize how long it took them to come up.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Very, right.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't understand the logistics.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: That time it's sorry, six to eight hour drive, right?
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, did drive slow there, too?
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's something to think again.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: No bias.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: No judge.
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: How many of them were there?
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: The lobby must have been like 25, 30 of them.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And emotionally, how are you dealing with them?
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I was overwhelmed, because I never, I, I, I, I, I was overwhelmed, right?
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I, I think pictures, but I just didn't know.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I knew who the oldest,
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: was, right, which is, you know, one of my aunts, the oldest sister of your mom.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, yeah.
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I knew who she was.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I, I, I definitely point her out, right?
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's that wasn't an issue.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was one of those moments where like, you know, we didn't have iPhones at the time that you could actually just call back.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was, it was one of the things where like, you know, I, you know, the communication was, was challenging because I don't speak fluent Vietnamese, but also they brought an interpreter.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they had hired someone who spoke English and Vietnamese could translate back and forth, right?
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I just think about like all the trouble they went to to come up, all the expenses for the transportation and to hire this guy to speak English, right, for me to communicate.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I was there for two weeks.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I made sure I had two weekends there, you know, where I could go that down to Continental Wright and come back up and that kind of thing.
• 10:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was it was it was it was
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: My first exposure to like, Vietnam that I could not have gotten from any other piece of media or film content.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was amazing.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I had never like felt that kind of love and connection with people I had never seen before, right?
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that having that sort of like that embrace and that experience with family members was really, really emotional for me, really, really.
• 10:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been incredible story, yeah, incredible.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and over the course of two weeks being there, how much real time did you actually get to spend with all 25 people?
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: How did it work?
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, so, you know what?
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, the first weekend I was able to, you know, spend a little bit of time with them, you know, they, you know, they had uncles right I went back to Contoe right and it was that journey itself was long, you know, at the time they didn't have the major infrastructure pieces there so, you know, you take a boat across the river and I mean, just, yeah, it's like really long right, but, you know, the way in Contoe is that, I mean, a lot of my aunts and uncles all live sort of like in this little pocket.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very easy to get around and talk to each other, and I had one uncle that lived in Saigon, but everyone else lived near home, right?
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it was very easy to sort of get around and spend time with them.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Learn how being exposed to how they would cook in the rack, and I think one of the things that took me by surprise was I was watching a movie with my uncle.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, for us, we are sort of like accustomed to like watching like explosions or, you know, some level of violence on top of it.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now for him, I don't think he was like used to that, right?
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's a car blow up.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was used like this to read this adverse reaction going.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I was like, really?
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, OK, you know, and you know, I mean, just, you know, it wasn't like, you know, I won't say that there was a high level of censorship, but I mean, definitely like the amount of violence and gore and stuff that you see, I mean, we just sort of take the grant it, right?
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there is a very new thing, right?
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: You at the time, it was a very, very different type of experience, particularly for the older generation to be exposed to that.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And given that they had just come out of a war, right?
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: 30 years prior, it was like, wow, OK, this is very different.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're here with the idea of like really exploring Amarish and the Amarish and Coalition.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to kind of like move into this idea of you being at the Air Force Academy and the decision to go there and the experience of being at the Air Force Academy knowing that you have this like rich background with, you know, service members are dead
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: The history of bombing Vietnam and like going through that whole experience at the academy Can you tell me a little bit about like the journey of like getting to the academy?
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's like a huge accomplishment.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then while you're there kind of contemplating way Like the sides that were on and the sides that were trying to
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: makes sense of it all.
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's to me, I was in the Marines.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I always have this question when I'm sitting with other military former military people.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what?
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the Air Force Academy was a little bit different in terms of experience, right?
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my dad was enlisted in the Air Force
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he had never pushed me or my brother or any of my siblings, right, to go into the military.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I had, you know, part of high school, I was in JROTC, and it being so close to Air Force, March Air Force Base, it was an Air Force JROTC unit.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I spent four years there, you know, and, you know, those kind of programs helped develop leadership potential, right?
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, for me, it was, I was never about the goal was
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's to get to the Air Force Academy is all about what happens after, right?
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is the right path for me in terms of obtaining that goal?
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And is the Air Force Academy the right path for me to get there?
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've never had any aspiration being an astronaut or pilot or, you know, any of those sort of, you know, our resources right?
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, for me, you know, I've always been interested in astronomy and, you know, and frankly, you know, when I was in high school, I'd always ensure that I was tuned in to a specific PBS channel that was focused on what we call orbital mechanics, right?
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: The math around how you move in space, right?
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was always intrigued around like the complexity of the equations.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this program was initially set up so that
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those who went to community college would then tune in to a certain time on TV and watch this as a lecture, right?
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Supplement to the lecture they would go in and I always found it fascinating.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I wanted to do was focus on the math and specifically the science behind movement in space.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so for me, it was like, okay, well, who has the best program for that?
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And later did I learn that it was something called Astronautical Engineering.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, for me, it was like, okay, well, there's a couple of places I can go.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can go in MIT, I really tough to get into.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a couple of other universities that also had programs as well, but the Air Force Academy was attractive because it was free, but you gotta get in, right?
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So to your point, right, getting into the Academy is a process within a self-right, you know, their GPA, your, your,
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: test scores are all deterministic, right?
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: All that right.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You got to get a nomination, which is a very competitive.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was fortunate because my nomination came from at the time vice president HW Bush.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, and with my dad being retired military, I was given certain other considerations or categories I could apply for for a nomination.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: You only had one, but that was like, for me, that was that was a huge
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: You got past physical and medical tests.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you have just a lot of different stages you have to go through in order to get into the academy.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I spent my first year at the prep school at the academy and then my four years getting my degree.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: During that process, though, there's a couple different programs they had on campus where you could, as a freshman, you're encouraged to join and participate in.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they had this one particular group
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: which is really where a lot of black cadets would get together and be able to sort of like you know, be more of a support group, you know.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure, you know, you still have the upperclassmen and the freshmen, right?
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the tension and the training and the discipline that's involved in that.
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was more of a safe place, right?
• 16:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have life.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have life.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's all black.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's geared toward blackness.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, as one is exclusive, we had other that were there as well, but it was one of those areas where, you know, I was involved in that, I was involved in the gospel choir, you know?
• 16:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got involved in a lot of different things.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think I would get involved in, you know?
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: At the academy.
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And do you academy?
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, is one of those things where, like, you know, for me,
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: identity was not top of mind right for me it was like okay well how do I get through this place Right the best way possible and I would say that you know there was a couple of my classmates who were fit and he's full Vietnamese Wow and so I want to say and I haven't made this claim yet, but I think I may be one of the first Emorations to go through the academy Air Force Academy Not the first Vietnamese.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there were some before me, but others I had a classmates who were full Vietnamese who had gone
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: if you real quick.
• 17:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you said that.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You said you might have been one of the first emirations.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's the word emiration and help me out here.
• 17:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it really, does it pertain to Vietnamese, American or Vietnamese and servicemen, or is it a career, it could go back to the Korean world?
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go back to Fiat.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think in general, I think in general, the way I sort of like define it is the fact that, you know, if you had,
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, if you born in country during war, right, during wartime, right, where you had an Asian mother and an American serviceman, right, you know, for me, that's enough to qualify U.S. and Amiration.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this Amiration also qualifies people who
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: or born 10 years ago, an Asian parent and a wife?
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could extend that today.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, legally, from the government perspective, they have a very specific definition.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think in terms of, we don't call them Amorations per se, I think in today's Nomenclature, what we say, there's mixed race, right, or biracial, right?
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the term Amoration has a very specific connotation for a very specific time for a very specific population of people, right?
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Vietnamese people and black people at the academy.
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right?
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Talk a lot about that.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like so clearly.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know what?
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, when you're in an environment like this, right?
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And mind you, you're going through the, you know, through the system, right?
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: As a class, right?
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether it's focusing your squadron or even across the cadet wing, right?
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everyone's in the same pressure cooker, right?
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is no sense around.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, or definition around like what you're back when I think back when it was not like, oh, well, you know, you're, you're, you're mixed.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to, you know, sort of treat you a little bit different.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like that, you know, everyone had to bring their own, you know, bring their own game to the table, right, and really survive.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And even as an upperclassman, right, it never entered my mind in terms of why and how I need to to identify with one or the other.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will tell you though, when I get into corporate America,
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I do talked about quite a bit as a superpower is coach switching.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was just kidding.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm literally going to ask you.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'll tell you, even as a kid, you don't know this, and I reflect back on my experiences if you would have put me with a group of my black friends, right?
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: easily to be able to assimilate and be able to get along, but you took me out of that environment and threw me into a Vietnamese restaurant, I could easily adapt, right?
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and you think about like how you need that sort of special skill when you're dealing in a corporate environment, right?
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether you're talking to, you know, your buddy, right, that you need a favor from, right, and you're really close to, right, versus, you know, the senior leadership, right, very, very different tone, very different mannerisms, right?
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And be able to do that very
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: intrinsically without having to put in a lot of effort to be able to, you know, to, to, to navigate my way through like even even sometimes very difficult situations.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it just sounds nice.
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we use or it's super power.
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, it's just, you know, it's just
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: nail it, you know, because it has to be a superpower to be able to, like, fit in with the black guys.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then like turn right around and be cool with the group of Vietnamese guys.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'll tell you something about Kenneth, one of the things that you have to realize when you're doing that says that you will never.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I had this, this is me personally talking right.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had to realize I probably would never ever be 100% accepted by the black community or the Vietnamese community.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: But because I am half, I feel like there is that connection, right?
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that I'm entitled to having to be totally in that environment right or in that culture, but I respect it and I appreciate that.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also leverage my strengths to be able to bring a very different perspective that perhaps
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I think where my value comes in, particularly with the Amorigin Coalition.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, all these years, I think of myself, I was like, you know, having to do with so much cry, you know, being Vietnamese and then being American, you're dealing with four different things, right?
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're dealing with being a black man, Vietnamese man, I have black half Vietnamese man, and being an American.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then when you're going back to Vietnam, like you probably are probably going through the whole mix, the whole gamut as well.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want a bit, but you know that it doesn't faze me, right?
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I feel like if I'm just walking through the streets of Saigon, people just view me as a tourist, right?
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll okay with that, right?
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm actually to prove anything to anybody.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the things that like, you know, my family knows, right?
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They know in terms of like, you know, where and what to do and how I would respond to certain things.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I definitely appreciate that.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, that's enough, right?
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Enough of the symptoms that I can come home, right?
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And be loved and be taken care of by family.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all that really matters for me, right?
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anywhere else, it doesn't matter, you know, I'll go out there and I will, you know, get my, you know, education, my experience, where I gain more knowledge, right?
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, when I come home, that's what's really important for me as that piece.
• 22:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you told me a little bit about Warner Bros and going back in 2005, I want to really drill down on that, but we're really going to save this for a second time that we meet up.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do still need to figure out how Hollywood, how this exploration of being a Vietnam beams back to the Emersion Coalition that we're going to talk about.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: there's many different emirations, there's the emirations, like I said, under mom and dad that were married in the proper context and setting, and then there's pray the guys that you met, like an eight-year-old guy who came and got pulled out of Vietnam and made it or a two-year-old.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's like all kinds of right, but being in Hollywood and probably having met some of the emerging counterparts like, do you think about like the content that Hollywood was putting out during those years of coming up?
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how it affected you?
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I would admit that like I think it was in the 90s when heaven and earth first came out, right?
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: That talked about the life of Lily Hesland, right?
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And directed by Oliver Stone, you know, sort of brought to me this whole idea of
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow, you know what, there are, there are different types of emirations that are out there, right?
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I look at like for example, when you when you watch them will be right, you know, you'll get a sense of like, you know, ladies and ladies life and what she went through and then all her sons, right, that had to come after that, right?
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, you know, half Vietnamese, right, half American.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you look at the portrayal of
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: For me, it was more of an eye-opening experience to realize that I'm perhaps one of the lucky ones who came here to the US with my biological parents.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are some who came here with Operation Babylift, who still have not found their grandparents, right?
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which is still, and it's a lifelong journey for them, to figure out, they're roots, and there are probably some veterans who don't even know they even have kids.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a lot of different unanswered questions that still need to be resolved and perhaps will never be resolved.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think part of the dynamic here is not about, and even with the immigration community, it's not about who had it hardest.
• 25:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: That really isn't the issue.
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: The issue is, where do we go from here, right?
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how do we take our experiences and say, look, you know, here's a set of trauma.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a set of unresolved issues, you know, mentally that we're trying to figure out.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how do we sort of inform, right, whether it's government officials, whether it's the general public, right, that here are the implications of what happens when you have children of war, and sort of the impact on their lives.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's going to have a different journey.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's going to have a very different sort of story.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of the day, it's about all of us moving forward in that next chapter, right?
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we're trying to strive for, right?
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not trying to retell the Vietnam war.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not trying to talk about the atrocities who's right, who's wrong, right?
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Leave it up to the historians to be able to interpret that.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But for us as a byproduct of the war, for us, it's really finding each other.
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, to realize that there were still amirations in Vietnam who had never come to the US and I thought, oh, that doesn't make sense And then when you start to look at, you know, and find these different pockets of amirations across the country You know, they're getting these little mini reunions in place, right?
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, I didn't realize there were so many, right?
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you start finding this whole entire tribe, right?
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: That that you
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: never had exposure to.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now, like, you know, where we're talking on what's happening on a daily basis, right, by the way, who's doing why, who needs, you know, hey, I'm getting ready to kick off this event.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, could there's anyone have any ideas, or do you want to be part of it, right?
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's really like an extended family where you have brothers and sisters, right?
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, even Sean, right?
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, learning that, you know, he's, you know, average, like, what?
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is too coincidental right now is a time I felt like there is a huge push to really focus on this because it's not about just being able to talk about our own journey, but we have to own it.
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to make sure that we are portraying the right information, the facts, and frankly, you know, sort of you know,
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Clarify or at least you know and form the public that you know this is really what we are about right not what someone else is just trying to tell you what our story or history is fun fact Lately Hayes Slip has a son.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I don't want to name names because he's he doesn't like to talk about himself and he refuses to come on the podcast But this son, you know See on the credits he yeah
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very connected.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Christopher Nolan and the Odyssey and all of these movies, Christopher Nolan has put out.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And guys like Sean, you just mentioned and yourself and hate, Lately, Hacelift Sun come from a different category of amirations.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the other category is the ones that you mentioned.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: the painful experience of not knowing your dad and then the stigma attached.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like you're aware of that or you personally Derek Powell needs to be aware of it because other ones that are like not as fortunate are in a place and in your organization sometimes or do all of
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's a really good question, you know, I mean, you know, it's really hard to sort of like categorize all of our stories because we're still complex, right, and they're so nuanced, right, and you know, just like any other population or demographic got there, right, I mean, there's so many varieties of stories that are out there, but I will tell you that, you know, even despite all those respective variations, right, there are some very common themes, we all have with one another, right, whether it's.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, challenging questions around our identity, right?
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who are we really apart from?
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you say it, right?
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Vietnamese, my black, and my Vietnamese-American.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you struggle with that a little bit, right?
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: At some point, right?
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get into some dynamics around like, okay, well, if I have kids, well, how do I explain to them, right?
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what they are, right?
• 29:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, and, you know, I tend to,
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: focus more on just being aware of that.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or my goal is not to be sort of like the one-stop shop, where you can get all your problems solved.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a lot of great organization out there that are doing some really great things.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can be able to feed them, whatever.
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think for us as an overall organization or as a group, we're there to support each other.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, regardless of those dynamics that we had in the past and sometimes very, very painful,
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: and we can identify some of us can identify with those challenges.
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But to know that you've got another brother, sister, who's also admiration right, that may not know all your details, but is there a support you along the way, right?
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is sometimes enough, right?
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So having that extended family, right?
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even if you don't know a lot about your family roots,
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she may have the foster parent, she may have the veterans, she may have the support right of the government, you know, NGOs or whoever is an ecosystem right at the end of the day.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: To have this sort of population that is in your age group, your demographic understands those complexities is enough to, you know, to sit there and say, look, you know, I did a group I can lean on, right?
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: When fun, Gwimai wrote a book called This Child, and from where I left off with that, it felt like there's still a lot more work that needs to be done in that world.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell me a little bit about that?
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what?
• 31:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I have my opinions about the book.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, having it being focused on a black, you know, and Vietnamese, you know, ameration.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I will tell you, you know, one of the things I've been doing personally, right, even before I was involved in the ameration coalition, it was really
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: the population numbers, right?
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how many emories are doing boring during the war, right?
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a very hard number that no one's been able to nail down.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also feel like, you know, we have good...
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: good data from a period of time, that tells us how many have actually come into the US.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: There may be some other data that shows where other Ameriants have immigrated into other countries.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But part of what I'm trying to do is really to set the record straight around the number of Ameriants that have been able to come to the US and be able to help.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, settle here.
• 31:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the things with Queen Myes book, right, is that it does bring a lot of light to that.
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think she's very prescriptive in some of those things because sometimes, you know, you want to be able to sort of lead the reader to a certain point.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then like, don't leave it up to their judgment.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: You want to be very blatant and very forward around what you want them to take away from that particular passage, right?
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in a lot of cases she does that very well, but you write though there is and I think the reason why you feel like there's a lot more insights a lot more in depth reason needs to be done it's because it needs to be done.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, right.
• 32:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me let me correct myself.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean that going my is work needs to be done more.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm I'm more focused on.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are amirations that are living in Vietnam right now perhaps that have no way of outside reach to figure out who their lineage or their dad.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, sure.
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a couple of groups, right?
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've got, you know, Jimmy Miller up in Spokane, who does emirations with our borders.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: He does a lot of work with bringing and identifying and helping those who are still in Vietnam trying to come to the US.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a couple of organizations out there, come to my right with who is.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a who's really trying to support the the whole DNA aspects right and getting those kits out to mothers right and to kids and be able to provide that opportunity for re-indification and they've been very successful.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: They've been around four years and they've had some really good success around that.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of these smaller groups that are doing some really great work with amirations that are still in Vietnam.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, there's still a lot of work specifically with the operation of being able to get them qualified and come into the U.S.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there are, it seems like there's a lot of little organizations, why and how did immersion coalition form?
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And why let like these little chapters?
• 33:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like,
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: listen to you guys and what would it's to deal with like putting it all together under a coalition yeah i think uh i think the idea was scale right i mean you had a lot of groups who were able to do some really good things very well but then when you look at the overall picture in terms of the mission and the vision of what we're trying to do to be able to not just be able to support and the regions who need help but also provide a channel for them to be able to tell their story that was the original premise of that
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that I think for the most part that still remains true today, you know, we sort of shift a little bit in terms of our focus, you know, and a lot of it has been looking at, you know, where can we be able to be very effective, right, in the conversation today as it relates to amorations.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So whether that's looking at, you know, doing research around, you know, the population number and verifying validating that, looking at, you know, how can we partner with some of the archival.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Research centers right one here in UC Irvine the other being in Texas tech.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do we sort of formulate you know those relationships you know going forward How do we sort of encapsulate you know oral history you know we're getting older?
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know our parents are getting older, right?
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So how do we capture this story and you asked about you know how my parents meant I don't even know the full story and my dad has passed way now for three years
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm never going to be able to hear it from him, but my mom is still alive.
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So how can I be able to provide the right mechanism and tools and support to be able to capture the oral history, right?
• 35:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Looking at advocacy, right?
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Continue to chip away and be able to continue looking at opportunities where we can be able to bring
• 35:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: more of our emirations brothers and sisters back here to the U.S.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not about changing the legislation.
• 35:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's about just execution at this point.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're looking at, you know, how do we bring this more to the general population on the art side, right?
• 35:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is like one of the things that we're working on right now, in terms of being able to partner with, like, for example, the Bowers Museum, right?
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do we bring some of these programs and some of these different types of awareness campaigns to the general public, not just for emirations, not for Vietnamese, but everyone?
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So everyone has an opportunity to learn more about what we're about and how we go move forward in terms of owning and telling our story going forward.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's really the crux of what this is about.
• 35:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: When's the last time you've been back to date?
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was December 2019.
• 35:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's quite a bit.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And do you feel like um,
• 36:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, one day, you will go back and establish, I don't know, retirement or life back there, anything like that.
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let me tell you a funny story.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, having meant to Vietnam a couple of times, right?
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, I've always said that, you know, wow, you know, you can live at the King here.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: This life is simple, right?
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: The people wonderful, right?
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm sure if I were to immerse myself, I could probably get a good command of the language.
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I brought it up to my mom saying, you know, mom, I think, you know, it'd be really cool for me to go back and, you know, open up an American barbecue restaurant.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my mom turned to me, she goes, I worked so hard to hit you out of that country.
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now you want to go back?
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I think I put the greatest salt right than the today.
• 36:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, it's one of those things where I see myself visiting the country more often.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still have family there, right?
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, there's other issues, and there's other, you know,
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: things that they have changed with Vietnam since the war, right, or even since my last visit.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, there's been now this push now to really sort of reframe Vietnam as more, you know, peace-oriented versus, you know, focusing on the conflicts that they've had in the past, right?
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's, there's been a shift in terms of the mindset of the government, you know, now, you know,
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is not meant to be any type of political stance or anything, but I think the idea here is changes constant and for better for worse, the idea is how do you adapt to that change outside of the country as well as in country.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, it's more about looking at and figuring out how do we continue working with a country like Vietnam to be able to bring and build those bridges
• 37:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the whole idea for you at Ammarage in Coalition is to work on more awareness, you know, bringing this idea of the stories, the narrative of Ammarageans of that period into focus.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we around the world can understand about it.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 38:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I really appreciate this.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: but one question, why American barbecue?
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, I love to smoke meat, right?
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of my favorite cooking passions.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I figure, you know what, it'd be a great idea because you know everyone loves anything that's American over in Vietnam, right?
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they would flock to it.
• 38:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I probably would add a little more Vietnamese flare, right?
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it meets local taste, but then I realized that supply chain would be a little bit more complex, because getting the raw material in market, right?
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And well, there's already a chain in Vietnam that does it really well.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's called, okay, is a, you know, it has like a pig as a logo.
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, wood sounds like the way pigs make the big rot,
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's appropriate.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was born and you're the pig.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's okay.
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm okay with that too.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you living these days?
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, so I spent my time between Rdondo Beach and Temecula.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so yeah.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why Temecula?
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when I was in Atokyo at the time, my wife and I were looking at, my wife had actually come with me to Atokyo.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she was there for a year and she came back.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're Kuskogigama, where were you?
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was based in Tokyo four before one of brothers.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I thought that was the beginning of the military.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so anyway, so came back and so we decided to, you know, at the time my wife's mother was in San Diego and my parents were in Riverside, so we picked the spot right in the middle between it too and Temeckler was sort of like the ideal spot.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they have great winery there.
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great golf casino.
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, can't complain.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love Temeckler.
• 39:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dirk, thank you so much for coming on.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, thank you for having me.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was great.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is part one, because part two is equally as going to be interesting because part two is really where I live.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I live in this space of film and Vietnam
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I've ever met anybody who was there from the beginning, the market research, the big studios, shooting films back to like, as soon as I got to see in L.A. and all these.
• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't wait to get into it.
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well good.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it.
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.