Latest / The You Project / #2088 A Functional Delusion - Bobby Cappuccio

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#2088 A Functional Delusion - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get a groove as it's the You Project, It's Tiff,
0:02
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook, It's Robert, Joseph Capuccio, Craig Anthony Harp
0:06
Speaker 1: of the bloke in the middle of the screen. If
0:07
Speaker 1: you happen to be one of us three. If not,
0:10
Speaker 1: just trust me. Let's start with the real man on
0:15
Speaker 1: the podcast tiff Good Morning.
0:18
Speaker 2: Top of the Morning, Craig Anthony Harbor.
0:21
Speaker 1: How are you? How's how things? How's your leprosy? How's
0:25
Speaker 1: your future husband? How's your cat? How's your dog? Let's
0:29
Speaker 1: just tick all the boxes.
0:30
Speaker 2: Things are tickety boo, as one of my great friends says,
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Speaker 2: tickety boo, tickety shelder, little leprosy on the shoulders. Starting
0:38
Speaker 2: to calm down today, it doesn't feel so horrific.
0:41
Speaker 1: Oh, thank goodness for that. Does that mean I don't
0:44
Speaker 1: need to train in a hazmat suit anymore? Or that
0:53
Speaker 1: you's that tif? Exactly good question, Robert.
0:58
Speaker 2: I have got a I am treating a skin cancer
1:01
Speaker 2: lesion on my shoulder with some of that horrific cream
1:05
Speaker 2: that causes chaos. So yeah, it's gross, isn't it.
1:12
Speaker 1: I think you and I spoke once about skin cancer
1:14
Speaker 1: and you said you'd never been checked, Bobby, No, I
1:17
Speaker 1: never been checked. Yeah, no, fuck it, you don't want it.
1:21
Speaker 1: I mean, whats me. Well, because you did grow up
1:25
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, you probably had like, I don't know, snow cancer,
1:28
Speaker 1: not fucking the skin cancer.
1:30
Speaker 3: So oh no, when I was when I was younger,
1:32
Speaker 3: it's so weird because like now, like I don't go
1:34
Speaker 3: to the beach.
1:35
Speaker 1: I hate the beach.
1:36
Speaker 3: I was always out on the beach in the summertime
1:38
Speaker 3: when I when I was working out at sixteen, I
1:41
Speaker 3: couldn't keep my clothes on, so middle of summer I
1:44
Speaker 3: would be outside like.
1:47
Speaker 1: Half naked all day. I mean, I feel like the
1:51
Speaker 1: beach at Coney Island is probably a bit more dirt
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Speaker 1: and grain and grit than white sands. Yeah.
2:00
Speaker 3: I mean we have syringe needles in the water, or
2:02
Speaker 3: we did, so it's pretty colorful. It's different than your
2:06
Speaker 3: typical beach. It's more exciting, a lot more things going on,
2:09
Speaker 3: you know, broken glass on the sand.
2:11
Speaker 1: You gotta watch where you're walking. I still think they
2:15
Speaker 1: still comb the foreshore in Melbourne anyway, or syringes, So
2:20
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a totally an historical thing. Not
2:23
Speaker 1: in Australia anyway. But it's definitely, thankfully definitely. How the
2:28
Speaker 1: fuck do I know? I've done zero research? So this
2:30
Speaker 1: is just my fucking hypothesis, you know, when you go
2:33
Speaker 1: it's absolutely this, and then you're like, as it's coming
2:36
Speaker 1: out of young God, you go and the fact do
2:38
Speaker 1: you know have you done any research? No? I haven't.
2:41
Speaker 1: It seems to me that's better. That's I don't know.
2:45
Speaker 1: Tif does it seem like it's less of a thing
2:47
Speaker 1: than it used to be to you?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like it's not on my radar.
2:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, we get we used to get quite a bit
2:55
Speaker 1: of quite a bit of info and warning and you know,
3:00
Speaker 1: be careful if you're going to the beach, wear shoes
3:02
Speaker 1: or songs, and you know, don't don't walk in the
3:05
Speaker 1: sand in bare feet, especially in certain areas that I
3:08
Speaker 1: won't mention. But ah, dear, and you had a gig
3:13
Speaker 1: today and you said to me you'd hopefully get back
3:16
Speaker 1: at eleven thirty, which is now just after eleven thirty.
3:20
Speaker 1: So you said you're in ninety you said you're a
3:22
Speaker 1: ninety percent chance, and it looks like that's one hundred percent. Now,
3:27
Speaker 1: how did your gig go.
3:29
Speaker 3: I'm almost sure I'm going to make it to this
3:31
Speaker 3: podcast it went Okay, it wasn't. It's not like a
3:35
Speaker 3: public speaking gig. It's a group coaching gig. I facilitate
3:39
Speaker 3: with a group of para professionals and teachers.
3:45
Speaker 1: Oh cool group. I love this group. They are a
3:47
Speaker 1: lot of fun to be with. I've got an interesting
3:50
Speaker 1: group that I'm chatting to. As I said to you
3:53
Speaker 1: before off air, both you in what is now about
3:56
Speaker 1: eighty minutes from now, which is a group of people
3:59
Speaker 1: who work in the addiction space. So a whole lot
4:01
Speaker 1: of kind of counselors and facilitators and workers in that space.
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Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm excited because it's only like I think
4:12
Speaker 1: it's eight people or nine people just sitting in a
4:15
Speaker 1: boardroom around the table. Where. I love that, Like it's
4:18
Speaker 1: very you know, it can almost be wherever you guys
4:23
Speaker 1: want me to go, that's where we'll go. What do
4:24
Speaker 1: you want to know? Okay, so this is kind of
4:27
Speaker 1: my area of I guess expertise. What in the context
4:31
Speaker 1: of that would you like to talk about? You know?
4:33
Speaker 1: So I like those ones where it's it's almost like
4:37
Speaker 1: a meeting and you just happen to be chairing the
4:40
Speaker 1: meeting and doing the bulk of the talking. But it's
4:43
Speaker 1: sometimes you get way more kind of achieved in small
4:47
Speaker 1: group and you do a bit of that, don't you
4:49
Speaker 1: a bit of that kind of group coaching stuff?
4:51
Speaker 3: Now, actually do quite a bit of that, you know,
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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's group coaching or it's more
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Speaker 3: like a conversational facilitated workshop.
5:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: I find it really rewarding because when you're dealing with
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Speaker 3: people who work with individuals with addiction, or people that
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Speaker 3: are in the social work domain, or any type of
5:09
Speaker 3: special needs of special populations, these are people that are
5:14
Speaker 3: beautifully compassionate people that get into work like this, but
5:17
Speaker 3: they tend to find themselves I mean, you know, there's
5:21
Speaker 3: exceptions to the rule, but they tend to find themselves
5:23
Speaker 3: overworked and under resourced. And when you work with a
5:26
Speaker 3: group like that, I think it's highly impactful. Like you
5:30
Speaker 3: have eight people in the room. You know, let's assume
5:32
Speaker 3: four couldn't care less like what you spoke about a
5:35
Speaker 3: week from now right, and two of them care but
5:38
Speaker 3: they don't have the bandwidth. And another two of those
5:41
Speaker 3: eight really go out and do something different given the
5:44
Speaker 3: population that they're working with that's going to have a
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Speaker 3: long term residual effect that's quite meaningful for more people
5:52
Speaker 3: than you'll ever realize. So I'm grateful that you know
5:57
Speaker 3: we can do that type of work in that environment.
6:00
Speaker 1: I think it's also like you say, it's like you
6:03
Speaker 1: might just think in a room full of eight people
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Speaker 1: or me and eight, but an audience of eight, if
6:08
Speaker 1: you really resonate with one, that's twelve and a half
6:11
Speaker 1: percent of the audience, If you really connect with two,
6:14
Speaker 1: that's twenty five percent of the audience, and so on.
6:17
Speaker 1: And then you know, I wouldn't mind if I had
6:19
Speaker 1: one hundred people in a room. If I really really
6:22
Speaker 1: connected with twenty five, that's not a terrible outcome, you know,
6:26
Speaker 1: in terms of having an impact where they go do
6:30
Speaker 1: something with that. That's what I mean by that.
6:33
Speaker 3: I always had this thing where you never know who's
6:36
Speaker 3: in the room, and I learned this so oh god.
6:39
Speaker 3: Rewinding back to two thousand and two, it was the
6:44
Speaker 3: NESM International Conference and we had about memory serves me correct,
6:49
Speaker 3: roughly about five hundred people.
6:52
Speaker 1: Just tell our audience what NASM is.
6:54
Speaker 3: Oh so a NESM is a certification company. It's one
6:59
Speaker 3: of the largest and most reputable like globally I would imagine,
7:04
Speaker 3: and we put we put together this conference.
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Speaker 1: You didn't finish that certification for what? Oh I'm sorry, personally,
7:13
Speaker 1: where's my head out today? I must be talking to it.
7:15
Speaker 1: You're not talking to a fitness industry audience.
7:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's the health and it's the health and
7:20
Speaker 3: fitness space. So working I would assume, still haven't been
7:24
Speaker 3: affiliated with NSM in a while, but working with you know,
7:27
Speaker 3: fitness professionals, working with personal trainers like that group. But
7:34
Speaker 3: this conference was open to talk to leadership at multiple
7:38
Speaker 3: levels of the organization, from the c suite all the
7:40
Speaker 3: way down to the trainer. And sitting in that room
7:44
Speaker 3: was Michael Ducourt, was ian O Dwyer, was Richard Boyd.
7:50
Speaker 3: Was Peter Hood who's very sadly no longer with us.
7:55
Speaker 3: Matt Coulson, Paul Taylor, not our Poultail or a different
7:59
Speaker 3: Paul Taylor or who has shockingly similar personality traits, and
8:06
Speaker 3: also from Northern Ireland. Small world anyway, And so all
8:11
Speaker 3: these people were in this room, and that one conference
8:17
Speaker 3: created multiple deals that put us in front of thousands
8:23
Speaker 3: of people in multiple countries. So you have people in
8:28
Speaker 3: the room. But a few of those people, you don't
8:30
Speaker 3: know the influence. You don't know how you're going to
8:33
Speaker 3: inspire them. They might become speakers themselves. They might go
8:36
Speaker 3: out and do something that they never thought of doing before. Right,
8:38
Speaker 3: They may go out and become someone they never would
8:41
Speaker 3: have been before they were sitting in that audience, and
8:44
Speaker 3: they might impact tens of thousands of people.
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Speaker 1: So you never know who's sitting in front of you. Well,
8:50
Speaker 1: Jesus did all right, I mean it, he started off
8:53
Speaker 1: with twelve, didn't he. He's like he bikes. Just gather around.
8:57
Speaker 1: They've got some stuff, all right, So God right, got
9:01
Speaker 1: that me s o g Son of God, lean in, Judas,
9:06
Speaker 1: you can lean back, Peter, You're going to come in
9:09
Speaker 1: real handy. And they just went, this is good. We
9:13
Speaker 1: might go tell others and bibbity bobbedy boo. So that
9:18
Speaker 1: seemed to work. That's not the worst model. Not that
9:21
Speaker 1: you or I or tif are the Messiah, but we
9:24
Speaker 1: could be Messianic in our own little kind of Do
9:27
Speaker 1: you like that words of Messianic in our own little
9:29
Speaker 1: kind of you know, tunnel?
9:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be that would be a massive disaster. Yeah,
9:37
Speaker 3: he's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy. That
9:41
Speaker 3: is that is nothing but chaos and despair, and.
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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe a little bit hilarity along the way.
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Speaker 1: One hundred. I so many times, like I have, well,
9:53
Speaker 1: I think not so many times recently because I think
9:56
Speaker 1: I'm better at it, but I will put up my
9:58
Speaker 1: hand and say by periodically been terrible at reading the room,
10:03
Speaker 1: and like both of you, I'm sure at times created
10:06
Speaker 1: you know, not chaos globally, but at least with part
10:11
Speaker 1: of the audience. But I also remember lots of times
10:14
Speaker 1: when and we've spoken about this a bit, so I
10:16
Speaker 1: won't remember, I won't mention the same specific story, but
10:20
Speaker 1: at least twenty times in my life, and this is
10:22
Speaker 1: over thousands of presentations, but at least twenty times I
10:26
Speaker 1: was sure that some person in the room hated me,
10:29
Speaker 1: because that was the vibe and the energy I was getting.
10:32
Speaker 1: They hate me. They can't wait for this to be over.
10:35
Speaker 1: They think I'm a fucking idiot or something. So I'm
10:38
Speaker 1: up there concentrating on the one, not the ninety nine,
10:41
Speaker 1: and I'm telling myself a story, and I'm just struggling
10:45
Speaker 1: through to try to not completely fuck it up. And
10:48
Speaker 1: then the one comes and tells me how much they
10:50
Speaker 1: loved me or how much they loved it, and you know,
10:54
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh god, I have no idea, like sometimes
10:58
Speaker 1: especially if someone who's doing what I'm and in research,
11:00
Speaker 1: but yeah, that it's so easy to get that. How
11:05
Speaker 1: do people see me, experience me, understand me. It's so
11:08
Speaker 1: easy to get that wrong because you just misinterpret a
11:12
Speaker 1: facial expression and you don't know they could be that
11:15
Speaker 1: could be their version of I'm really fucking concentrating, but
11:18
Speaker 1: you read it as I'm really fucking mad at you,
11:22
Speaker 1: you know, or whatever, and then you run with that
11:25
Speaker 1: and that becomes your narrative for the next thirty minutes.
11:28
Speaker 1: And by the time you finish the thing, you're scared
11:30
Speaker 1: to walk to your car because you think they're going
11:32
Speaker 1: to kill you in the car park.
11:34
Speaker 3: So you know they may that could happen. You know,
11:38
Speaker 3: it's an atlandish thought, but it very well could happen.
11:42
Speaker 1: Statistically probably not high, not high, but possible.
11:46
Speaker 3: So you know what I've been thinking about talking about,
11:50
Speaker 3: like delusion, because we're you're your own multiverseign to yourself,
11:55
Speaker 3: aren't you. You're living in multiple realities at any given point.
12:00
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not.
12:00
Speaker 3: Actual realities, but perceptually it feels pretty real. And I
12:05
Speaker 3: was thinking about the podcast you did with Chris Evans,
12:08
Speaker 3: not Captain America, the Psychology Chris Evans.
12:13
Speaker 1: And I actually got his name wrong. It is Chris,
12:16
Speaker 1: but it's not Evans. It's not Evans. It's French. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
12:21
Speaker 1: it's very different. That's very different than Evans. But anyway,
12:24
Speaker 1: he was great, wasn't he. Well, I thought he was great.
12:27
Speaker 1: I love that episode.
12:28
Speaker 3: I love that he's, you know, good mates with Richard Wiseman,
12:32
Speaker 3: who's absolutely brilliant.
12:36
Speaker 1: And something he said caught my attention. It's come up.
12:39
Speaker 3: It's kind of like what you focus on is what
12:41
Speaker 3: you notice, and it brought my attention to a healthy
12:44
Speaker 3: level of delusion. We're all delusional for better or for
12:47
Speaker 3: worse about something. And I'm not talking about delusions to
12:51
Speaker 3: the point of megalomania, which is highly destructive to yourself
12:55
Speaker 3: and others. But there is a healthy level of delusion
13:00
Speaker 3: that I think is important, not for just like life trajectory,
13:05
Speaker 3: but for your own sanity, your own mental health.
13:08
Speaker 1: Give us an example, like, when I think of delusion,
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Speaker 1: I think of somebody that's just kind of fucking out
13:14
Speaker 1: of their mind or they just have a very unhealthy
13:19
Speaker 1: version of reality.
13:22
Speaker 3: Okay, So just the other night, in the middle of
13:25
Speaker 3: a rainstorm, I'm walking completely naked down the road and
13:29
Speaker 3: this corpor. Oh wait, now that's a different story. That's
13:31
Speaker 3: not the one I wanted to tell anyway. So I'm
13:35
Speaker 3: driving down the road fully closed, middle of the day,
13:40
Speaker 3: very very different already, right, stories literally night and day.
13:44
Speaker 3: And I'm listening to an audio program from one of
13:47
Speaker 3: my fam my favorite speakers at the time, and I
13:51
Speaker 3: hear them talk about the Yale Study of nineteen fifty
13:54
Speaker 3: three where in nineteen fifty three they did study where
13:57
Speaker 3: they got the entire graduating cloud of Yale University and
14:01
Speaker 3: they asked them one specific question, how many of you
14:03
Speaker 3: have clearly defined goals and written plans for their achievement?
14:07
Speaker 3: And they followed these people over a span of twenty years.
14:11
Speaker 3: Nineteen seventy three, they interviewed the surviving. You know, not
14:14
Speaker 3: a couple of people died tragic accidents, unlikely, possible, and
14:19
Speaker 3: they basically tracked them. And what they found that in
14:24
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty three, only three percent of the graduating class
14:31
Speaker 3: of Yale had clearly defined goals and written plans for
14:36
Speaker 3: their achievement, which I kind of thought, stay with me,
14:39
Speaker 3: was a little bit odd that you would go to
14:40
Speaker 3: an Ivy League school and not have a clear goal
14:43
Speaker 3: about where you're going in life. But that's what they found.
14:46
Speaker 3: And in nineteen seventy three, twenty years later, what they
14:49
Speaker 3: discovered was the three percent that had clearly defined, written
14:52
Speaker 3: goals were earning more than the other ninety seven percent combined. Yeah,
14:59
Speaker 3: and then in another audio program, I was listening to
15:03
Speaker 3: the Harvard study which pretty much did the same thing,
15:06
Speaker 3: and they had very similar findings. Now, the problem with
15:11
Speaker 3: that is neither of those studies ever took place.
15:13
Speaker 1: It's an urban legend.
15:15
Speaker 3: Yale or Harvard have no record of any of that
15:18
Speaker 3: research ever being done. And that was exposed in a
15:22
Speaker 3: Fast Company article by Lawrence Taybeck. And what's interesting about
15:27
Speaker 3: that is I didn't know that that was false, and
15:30
Speaker 3: I thought, wow, So all you really need to do
15:35
Speaker 3: is have a clearly defined goal and have detailed plans
15:41
Speaker 3: for the achievement of that goal, and being willing to
15:43
Speaker 3: work really hard and put in the effort. And it's
15:46
Speaker 3: not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
15:48
Speaker 3: Look at these two studies, and I went from being
15:52
Speaker 3: this kid with brain damage, no real impressive educational background
15:58
Speaker 3: to achieving the top goals on my life in just
16:00
Speaker 3: a few years. And I was basing that on a delusion.
16:04
Speaker 3: It was a completely delusional belief. But like we've talked
16:08
Speaker 3: about Tiff and I manifesting, like what does it mean?
16:11
Speaker 1: Was it not mean?
16:12
Speaker 3: And say every time something would happen that would get
16:14
Speaker 3: in the way of my trajectory, I just thought, oh, well, I'm.
16:17
Speaker 1: Learning from this.
16:18
Speaker 3: I could adapt, I can learn new skills. I never
16:21
Speaker 3: for a second took it as oh, well, maybe I'm
16:24
Speaker 3: not cut out for this, because I thought, I'm amazing
16:26
Speaker 3: at this. If anybody else can do it, I can
16:29
Speaker 3: do it. And you know, this is just math. Look
16:31
Speaker 3: at the studies, complete bullshit. But that healthy dose of
16:37
Speaker 3: delusion served me really well until I was as company
16:41
Speaker 3: it is.
16:42
Speaker 1: That is a great story and a great explanation. Thank you,
16:46
Speaker 1: It really is. And it's a it's kind of a
16:51
Speaker 1: plus a boat. It's almost like a career plus a
16:54
Speaker 1: boat because you believe, if I'm taking this pill of
16:58
Speaker 1: goals and structure and process and timeline, and I keep
17:02
Speaker 1: taking this pill, then this will be the outcome.
17:06
Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, so and it was even because of that,
17:10
Speaker 3: I had a major setback. So this I had just
17:15
Speaker 3: been I had just left the military. And when I
17:18
Speaker 3: say left the military, I had just been asked to
17:21
Speaker 3: leave the military because of Tourette's. So and I got
17:28
Speaker 3: out and I had no job, and a friend of
17:30
Speaker 3: mine said, you know, I've got this perfect position.
17:33
Speaker 1: It pays exceedingly well.
17:35
Speaker 3: And it was this really high profile CEO, and so
17:39
Speaker 3: like I didn't have a call to drive out to
17:41
Speaker 3: this place. I spent hours on a bus getting out
17:44
Speaker 3: to this guy. Finally made it over there, sat down
17:48
Speaker 3: in the interview and he was asking me a little
17:50
Speaker 3: bit about my life goals. And I had on me
17:53
Speaker 3: my briefcase and in there I had like ten pages
17:56
Speaker 3: of written out plans. He took a look at my
17:59
Speaker 3: goals and the plans and the strategies. I looked up
18:03
Speaker 3: and he said, there's no way I'm going to hire you.
18:07
Speaker 1: This is just not the job for.
18:09
Speaker 3: You, because you are so clear on what it is
18:14
Speaker 3: you want. Nah, you shouldn't be working for anybody else
18:18
Speaker 3: right now.
18:19
Speaker 1: You should be focusing on.
18:20
Speaker 3: Making this happen, and I was like dead broke, Like
18:23
Speaker 3: I had just about enough money to get home that day,
18:26
Speaker 3: buy myself a cup of coffee. And Tuesdays were my
18:29
Speaker 3: favorite days because it was ninety nine cent whopper day,
18:33
Speaker 3: so for a dollar ninety eight I could buy two whoppers.
18:35
Speaker 3: I didn't have to eat for another twenty four hours.
18:38
Speaker 3: So I was in dire straits and losing that job
18:41
Speaker 3: for me, I was like, oh my god, this is
18:43
Speaker 3: this is perfect evidence. He said I'm doing so well
18:46
Speaker 3: with this goal setting thing, He's not even going.
18:48
Speaker 1: To hire me.
18:49
Speaker 3: And so like this epic failure somebody needed desperately inspired
18:53
Speaker 3: me somebody, and all of these failures where like nothing
18:57
Speaker 3: was going my way, I misinterpreted that evidence.
19:00
Speaker 1: I was completely on the right track. How old were
19:04
Speaker 1: you at this How old were you at this stage,
19:06
Speaker 1: very early twenties. Yeah, when you said you got kicked
19:10
Speaker 1: out of the military for having turettes, I just pickeded
19:14
Speaker 1: you walking around the yard with your with your rifle
19:18
Speaker 1: above your head gun, fucked the enemy, fucked the enemy,
19:21
Speaker 1: you know something like that. That would have been right.
19:24
Speaker 1: That's I don't know that that doesn't really.
19:27
Speaker 3: Work very well, I'm standing I'm standing at GQ in
19:32
Speaker 3: General Quarters. Everybody silent and attention, and I'm just go
19:35
Speaker 3: shitt know that, Yeah that that that kind of stuff
19:37
Speaker 3: doesn't work. That wasn't my issue in the military. It
19:41
Speaker 3: was that my rate was Corman. I was in the Navy,
19:44
Speaker 3: so Corman's kind of like a medic, and there's just
19:46
Speaker 3: so much attention to detail, Like if you put a
19:49
Speaker 3: tourniquet on somebody, you've got to write that time, like
19:52
Speaker 3: somewhere visible on their body, like their forehead, so people
19:55
Speaker 3: know when that tourniquet needs to be removed or you're
19:58
Speaker 3: going to cross somebody their limbs.
20:00
Speaker 1: It was like you are a walking liability. Really why yeah?
20:06
Speaker 1: Why why? Because with touretts you have lack of impulsivity.
20:14
Speaker 3: Obsessive compulsive disorder comes along with that very serious ADHD.
20:20
Speaker 1: Would you said lack of impulsivity, I would say you
20:23
Speaker 1: would be lack of impulse control, like increased impulsivity. Yeah. Sorry,
20:29
Speaker 1: I'm a little.
20:30
Speaker 3: Bit a little bit foggy today, but yeah, So there's
20:33
Speaker 3: a whole suite of symptoms that come with turettes that
20:37
Speaker 3: are just not ideal when you need to be like
20:41
Speaker 3: highly focused for a long period of time with extreme
20:44
Speaker 3: attention to detail, which is what was required at my rate,
20:47
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, you're you're out.
20:49
Speaker 1: So what a grid idea that you become a spiker
20:51
Speaker 1: who stands in front of audiences and needs to be
20:54
Speaker 1: calm and clear and articulate and make sense and not
20:59
Speaker 1: lose your shits and be assessed by five hundred people
21:03
Speaker 1: in a moment that doesn't seem naturally. You've seen me
21:07
Speaker 1: present to an audience before you of these things. No
21:13
Speaker 1: you no, no, no, you're very good. But you know,
21:16
Speaker 1: the funny thing with you is, and this is a compliment. Yeah,
21:21
Speaker 1: you can be scatty as fuck and then get on
21:25
Speaker 1: stage and you're the opposite. It's like you're just a bit,
21:29
Speaker 1: or you can be just a bit. You know, all
21:32
Speaker 1: the things that you are, you know, a bit distracted,
21:34
Speaker 1: a bit, a bit caught up in the moment, or
21:37
Speaker 1: a bit worried, or a bit anxious or a bit
21:39
Speaker 1: and then you get called out and you go out.
21:42
Speaker 1: And usually nearly every time I've seen you, especially the
21:47
Speaker 1: time where I flew you out and you did some
21:49
Speaker 1: work for me or work with me, I should say,
21:52
Speaker 1: at one of my weekends yeah, where you. Yeah, every
21:57
Speaker 1: time you were just you would get into flow pretty
21:59
Speaker 1: quickly and you're just in state, and everybody knew you
22:03
Speaker 1: by that. You know, there's one hundred and thirty people
22:05
Speaker 1: on the weekend, and by the end of the first
22:07
Speaker 1: night everyone knew you. By the second day, everybody was
22:11
Speaker 1: chatting to you and you were chatting everyone else. And yeah,
22:15
Speaker 1: like you just really have this capacity to turn on
22:19
Speaker 1: that switch whatever it is.
22:21
Speaker 3: Well, that environment is the perfect environment for someone with
22:24
Speaker 3: TARATS because when you are focused single mindedly on something
22:30
Speaker 3: that you were interested in, and that's combined with physicality,
22:35
Speaker 3: like exerting physical effort and like you now, it feels
22:39
Speaker 3: like you're around a marathon at the end of training day,
22:42
Speaker 3: you're putting out a lot of energy. It's the perfect
22:44
Speaker 3: environment to bring your brain online when you have TUATS.
22:48
Speaker 3: So sitting down and doing a spreadsheet is horrible. Standing
22:50
Speaker 3: on stage a lot more conducive.
22:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. So Tiff, like in the you've
22:56
Speaker 1: been doing getting in front of audiences for a while,
22:59
Speaker 1: but in the last year, especially if focused, I would
23:03
Speaker 1: say almost on a professional level, your primary focus has
23:06
Speaker 1: been building that developing skills. You know, figuring out what
23:12
Speaker 1: you're going to talk about and not talk about, and
23:13
Speaker 1: building connection and rapport and brand and like what have
23:17
Speaker 1: you learned? Like what are you better at now than
23:20
Speaker 1: say three years ago, or what did you need to
23:23
Speaker 1: learn and perhaps unlearn from a perspective of connecting with
23:28
Speaker 1: an audience, whether it's three or three hundred.
23:32
Speaker 2: Maybe a different or a better view of the container
23:41
Speaker 2: of what I'm presenting my content, what and how I'm
23:43
Speaker 2: presenting content.
23:46
Speaker 1: Okay, I think, yeah.
23:50
Speaker 2: Having a better plan around that, having a better idea
23:53
Speaker 2: of how to communicate it, what to link it to,
23:58
Speaker 2: just all that, I think, Yeah, I think maybe an
24:02
Speaker 2: outside view of that of how I am experienced.
24:05
Speaker 1: Because initially I.
24:09
Speaker 2: Have been walking into rooms where I am already known,
24:13
Speaker 2: already have relationships and I know or I am speaking
24:18
Speaker 2: to a particular theme in regards to that. And then
24:23
Speaker 2: when you work more in the professional space, you're stepping
24:28
Speaker 2: out with your own content to rooms that you have
24:31
Speaker 2: not yet developed any rapport with. So I think it
24:34
Speaker 2: takes there's a lot more to be aware of.
24:38
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a lot called that. We call that a
24:40
Speaker 1: warm room and a cold room.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just said that, wouldn't it yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:45
Speaker 1: So when I go into a warm room, I could
24:47
Speaker 1: take a dump on stage and people be like, oh, look,
24:50
Speaker 1: how well is shits? That's fucking amazing. Yes, I'll buy
24:53
Speaker 1: three books. Right of course, I'm exaggerating, And just if
24:59
Speaker 1: you're coming to a fewre event, I probably won't do that.
25:02
Speaker 1: But in it like a corporate cold audience, especially a
25:05
Speaker 1: big group like a conference where it's a bunch of
25:08
Speaker 1: businesses and you're speaking to lots of people in a
25:12
Speaker 1: big room and four people know you, or you know,
25:16
Speaker 1: like less than one percent maybe of the audience know you.
25:19
Speaker 1: Oh yeah you. It is just a completely different energy
25:23
Speaker 1: and you have to do all of this work to
25:28
Speaker 1: begin to get to the point that you have instantly
25:32
Speaker 1: with a warm audience, you know, to get that energy
25:35
Speaker 1: and that rapport and that trust and that respect. Because
25:38
Speaker 1: I'm just a six year old, you know, fucking buffhead
25:41
Speaker 1: with a shaved head on stage, and you know, it's like,
25:45
Speaker 1: I don't if I saw me walking up, I'd be like, yeah,
25:49
Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's see, let's see.
25:52
Speaker 2: What do you need to know about me in order
25:54
Speaker 2: for me to speak on this the way I want
25:56
Speaker 2: to speak about it. People are going to need to
25:57
Speaker 2: know things about me because they don't already know me.
26:00
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, that's that's so true. What about you
26:04
Speaker 1: with a cold audience, Bobby, or a warm audience? Uh yeah.
26:10
Speaker 3: Traditionally I would say it doesn't it didn't make a
26:14
Speaker 3: difference for me because you said it did not or
26:18
Speaker 3: it did did not make a difference. I didn't care,
26:20
Speaker 3: like I was just happy to be, you know, speaking
26:22
Speaker 3: in front of an audience, and a lot of times
26:25
Speaker 3: a cold audience, it's it's brand new because there's always
26:28
Speaker 3: this communication between you and the audience, even if even
26:32
Speaker 3: if the audience is not speaking, they're just sitting there silently,
26:36
Speaker 3: they're communicating and you feel it, Like you talk about
26:39
Speaker 3: that all the time now, sometimes you misread the communication
26:43
Speaker 3: like Okay, these people think I'm a complete muppet and
26:46
Speaker 3: they're just loving it. But there is communication happening there.
26:51
Speaker 3: One of the best speakers I have ever worked with
26:55
Speaker 3: is a guy in the name of You probably know
26:57
Speaker 3: this guy, Tom Plumber, Thomas Plumber and the health and
26:59
Speaker 3: Fitness industring.
27:00
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't know him personally,
27:03
Speaker 1: but I know who he is. Yep.
27:05
Speaker 3: Like there was a rumor going around that Tom's like
27:07
Speaker 3: a vampire, Like well into his sixties, he would be
27:10
Speaker 3: up all night entertaining students, entertaining participants, Like he'd go
27:15
Speaker 3: to bed at two o'clock in the morning, he'd wake
27:17
Speaker 3: up at five am, go for a run, get on
27:19
Speaker 3: stage first thing in the morning, be on stage all day,
27:22
Speaker 3: and just mesmerize people.
27:25
Speaker 1: And he was saying once that you know.
27:26
Speaker 3: He has this belief I am the best, Like I
27:31
Speaker 3: am the best speaker in my space. Now is that delusional?
27:36
Speaker 3: I mean maybe, like how would you even determine who's
27:39
Speaker 3: the best? Like what would be what would be the
27:41
Speaker 3: method of evaluation for that?
27:43
Speaker 1: And there's always someone better for you, better than you.
27:47
Speaker 3: But he is extraordinarily good at what he does because
27:51
Speaker 3: it's that belief system that he has that allows him
27:55
Speaker 3: to bring all of himself, with no hesitation, no insecurity whatsoever,
28:01
Speaker 3: into the front room and that really connects with people.
28:04
Speaker 1: And then the irony.
28:06
Speaker 3: Is because he so holds that belief it's not about him.
28:10
Speaker 3: He's lost in himself and disappears within a few minutes.
28:15
Speaker 3: He is totally connected to that audience, and it's that
28:18
Speaker 3: belief system that's the connector and if he walks into
28:21
Speaker 3: an audience and you know, he's not creating that effect
28:25
Speaker 3: in a room. Him believing that he is the best,
28:28
Speaker 3: he's able to be resilient and adapt to that, you know.
28:32
Speaker 1: Relatively quickly.
28:33
Speaker 3: So it goes back to that what is a healthy
28:36
Speaker 3: like what do you believe about yourself?
28:38
Speaker 1: That's something that's dawning on me increasingly. That's a really
28:42
Speaker 1: interesting thing that that what you just did push so
28:46
Speaker 1: many buttons in me, good and bad. Well not good
28:49
Speaker 1: and bad. But just like if I thought in my
28:53
Speaker 1: field I was the best speaker in Australia, which, for
28:57
Speaker 1: everyone's clarity, I do not, right, I for sure would
29:02
Speaker 1: not say that. I yeah, I just think which he
29:08
Speaker 1: does it and it seems to be working for him,
29:11
Speaker 1: and that's cool. I feel like in Australia, if you
29:14
Speaker 1: went I am the best in Australia at what I do,
29:18
Speaker 1: I think more people would disrespect you than respect you
29:21
Speaker 1: and think you're a narcissist. Which I'm not saying. I'm
29:25
Speaker 1: not saying he shouldn't do that.
29:26
Speaker 3: I reason, but here's here's something that here's something that
29:30
Speaker 3: has happened to me in my journey. First of all,
29:34
Speaker 3: like Tom was sharing that with me. He doesn't get
29:36
Speaker 3: up in front of an audience say I am the best,
29:41
Speaker 3: different he is the best, or it's about him. He
29:44
Speaker 3: just understands that there is an internal priming and a
29:48
Speaker 3: belief about who you are that essentuates all of your
29:54
Speaker 3: attributes and gets all of the background noise and just
30:00
Speaker 3: and insecurities out of the way, because that's a veiled.
30:04
Speaker 3: So imagine you've got your audience in front of you,
30:07
Speaker 3: You're standing on stage, every thought that you have about you,
30:11
Speaker 3: Oh my god, do they like me? Is this audience
30:14
Speaker 3: did that joke?
30:15
Speaker 1: Land? Am I getting accepted? What are the evls like?
30:18
Speaker 3: All that shit is thickening that veil. You got to
30:22
Speaker 3: find a way to remove that veil. And I used
30:25
Speaker 3: to get up in front of audiences, and I believe
30:27
Speaker 3: that I was very, very good because I believe that
30:33
Speaker 3: nothing was coming from me, like it wasn't my talent
30:37
Speaker 3: or my ability. I felt that I was so committed
30:40
Speaker 3: and passionate about what I was doing that I was
30:43
Speaker 3: in antenna. I was just transmitting and as long as
30:47
Speaker 3: as long as that channel was open, somebody in that
30:51
Speaker 3: room was going to be profoundly impacted. Not by what
30:54
Speaker 3: I had to say, but by the environment I created
30:58
Speaker 3: and the insights that emerge from my mouth and inside
31:01
Speaker 3: the minds of the people in front of me, and
31:04
Speaker 3: then I'm very much of that mindset where I could
31:07
Speaker 3: spoil it's nothing of this is about you. You know,
31:11
Speaker 3: you're not the best, You're not this. Just get up there,
31:14
Speaker 3: do your job. You know, don't like, don't read your
31:18
Speaker 3: own headlines. And sometimes what's really weird is it decreased
31:24
Speaker 3: my connection to the audience because.
31:27
Speaker 1: I would walk out.
31:28
Speaker 3: I would be walking toward the stage thinking something along
31:34
Speaker 3: the lines of Okay, here I am, and that would
31:39
Speaker 3: remove all of that internal noise, so that the second
31:42
Speaker 3: I got on the stage, that shift went from here
31:46
Speaker 3: I am to looking at my audience and going, oh, wow,
31:50
Speaker 3: there you are. And that is where I believe you
31:53
Speaker 3: need to be. And it's about like, what do you
31:56
Speaker 3: believe about your ability? It's not it's not thinking you're
32:00
Speaker 3: better than anyone else you're or you're worth more, or
32:04
Speaker 3: what you have to say is more important. It's about
32:07
Speaker 3: what do I have to do to kind of increase
32:11
Speaker 3: this connection to where I can disappear and just completely
32:15
Speaker 3: trust the process.
32:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh yeah, I think I understand that, and I
32:25
Speaker 1: think I don't know that that's going to work for
32:27
Speaker 1: the average punt to though, who's trying to figure out
32:30
Speaker 1: what the fuck am I talking about? How long have
32:32
Speaker 1: I got to go? Have I covered this yet? Have
32:34
Speaker 1: I covered that? Like I think for a lot of
32:37
Speaker 1: people who are not where you are, which is at
32:39
Speaker 1: a high level that you know, just becoming an antenna
32:43
Speaker 1: or a conduit and it's not coming from me, it's
32:46
Speaker 1: coming through me and all that. I understand that because
32:50
Speaker 1: I have the same experience at times where I feel
32:52
Speaker 1: like this is happening despite me, not because of me.
32:56
Speaker 1: But I don't know that that is like you can't
33:00
Speaker 1: teach people to be that or do that because you
33:03
Speaker 1: have a lot of people getting up who lack confidence,
33:06
Speaker 1: lack skill like experience, lack stage presence, lack situational awareness.
33:12
Speaker 1: They have all of these things going on, so they're
33:14
Speaker 1: just you know, trying to figure it out in real time.
33:17
Speaker 1: And I think the like, how do we build rapport, connection, trust,
33:21
Speaker 1: deliver a good presentation, make a difference, you know, connect
33:26
Speaker 1: amazingly with the one percent or the five percent. I
33:29
Speaker 1: just think that there's so many ingredients in that recipe
33:34
Speaker 1: that what you're what you're saying is true, and also
33:38
Speaker 1: in other news it's not true for these people, perhaps
33:42
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.
33:44
Speaker 3: And in my mind, that's all the more reason why
33:46
Speaker 3: it's important because then their structure, there's how do you
33:49
Speaker 3: go out and research the information? How do you put
33:51
Speaker 3: it together in a framework that makes sense when.
33:54
Speaker 1: You deliver that? How do you make why how do
33:58
Speaker 1: you test.
33:58
Speaker 3: To understand whether or not you're audience isn't even getting
34:01
Speaker 3: the point? So there's all this stuff around building content,
34:05
Speaker 3: and then there's all this stuff around how you deliver content.
34:09
Speaker 1: And if you're thinking about all of these.
34:11
Speaker 3: Things when you're trying to like organize all this information
34:16
Speaker 3: in your head, you're gonna choke. It's just too much.
34:20
Speaker 3: So there's one why am I here? What am I
34:22
Speaker 3: looking to give?
34:23
Speaker 1: Right? Two? What's the objective? Like when I step on
34:28
Speaker 1: on that stage?
34:30
Speaker 2: Like?
34:30
Speaker 1: Am I here to have fun? Am I here just
34:32
Speaker 1: to shit? Think about like.
34:33
Speaker 3: Your best date you've ever had where you couldn't say
34:36
Speaker 3: the wrong thing and the two of you were really laughing.
34:38
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, where have you been all
34:40
Speaker 1: my life?
34:41
Speaker 3: You didn't come in there with a ten point plan
34:45
Speaker 3: like okay, this is my this is my plan and
34:47
Speaker 3: my framework for a perfect date. And you weren't antenna.
34:51
Speaker 3: It wasn't coming from you. Was it was flowing through you.
34:54
Speaker 3: Everything you have learned, every interaction you ever had, you
34:59
Speaker 3: weren't in in the way. And that's the problem. How
35:03
Speaker 3: do you get yourself out of the way is just
35:06
Speaker 3: as important as how do you develop the skill sets
35:09
Speaker 3: so that you deliver something of value. All that stuff
35:12
Speaker 3: needs to be done off the stage, and I have
35:16
Speaker 3: to bring all that stuff on the stage with you
35:17
Speaker 3: all the time.
35:18
Speaker 1: I think the juxtaposition is that, you know, on the
35:22
Speaker 1: one hand, you want to be in flow, you want
35:23
Speaker 1: to be authentic, you want to read the room, you
35:26
Speaker 1: want to kind of just go where you go. But also,
35:32
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're taught at when you know, young
35:36
Speaker 1: ish or young ish in the the kind of the
35:39
Speaker 1: space speakers are taught about structure and you know, come
35:46
Speaker 1: up with five key messages, build on this, do that,
35:48
Speaker 1: do that, you know, which is all very cognitive, right,
35:52
Speaker 1: But then when I'm at my best, I'm less cognitive,
35:55
Speaker 1: more creative. Yeah, you know, I'm more, I'm more and instinctive,
36:01
Speaker 1: but building a framework and building a process and a
36:04
Speaker 1: timeline and kind of a plan is the opposite of
36:08
Speaker 1: being in flow. It's the opposite of, you know, of creativity.
36:14
Speaker 1: So I think it's that. And again I don't think
36:16
Speaker 1: it's all about one or the other. It's that convergence
36:19
Speaker 1: of brain stuff and creative stuff left right brain. You know,
36:23
Speaker 1: it's definitely both or storytelling.
36:26
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like that both of that, the
36:28
Speaker 3: both of those domains are mutually dependent upon one another.
36:33
Speaker 3: Like I've got to go through the structuring and that
36:37
Speaker 3: framework and that process, like cognitive process of organizing a
36:42
Speaker 3: talk and practice that enough in a relatively safe, but
36:47
Speaker 3: you know, hopefully a little bit intimidating of an environment, so.
36:51
Speaker 1: I can let that shit go.
36:53
Speaker 3: Like if I want to get really good at skiing,
36:55
Speaker 3: I'm going to work with the ski instructor of ski coach.
36:59
Speaker 3: Hopefully that individual understands a lot about human biomechanics and
37:04
Speaker 3: aerodynamics and they're going to pass that information onto me.
37:08
Speaker 1: And there is a.
37:10
Speaker 3: Very specific way I need to stand and hinge my
37:14
Speaker 3: hips and all that stuff. I don't know, I'm that scared,
37:17
Speaker 3: But when I'm on that black double diamond, I hope.
37:20
Speaker 3: I'm not thinking about all that stuff because I'm going
37:22
Speaker 3: to die. I just I have to use all the
37:25
Speaker 3: stuff that I've trained for.
37:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Unfortunately, I've got to pull the pin because
37:31
Speaker 1: I'm going to go and talk to some people. Tiff,
37:34
Speaker 1: is there anything that you'd like to enlighten us with
37:36
Speaker 1: before we go? Any words of wisdom guidance for either Robert, myself,
37:40
Speaker 1: the listeners. I mean, no pressure, but if you could
37:43
Speaker 1: share one gem, that'd be great.
37:44
Speaker 2: There's one gym slip slop slap herbs.
37:49
Speaker 1: Okay, slip slop slap. I will remember that I'm in
37:52
Speaker 1: the car, not on a motorbike, so I should be okay, Bobby,
37:55
Speaker 1: tell people where they can find you, and by that,
37:58
Speaker 1: I'm in electronically, not physically. I'm on the corner of
38:01
Speaker 1: K streets.
38:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, don't know what I'm talking about.
38:08
Speaker 1: I'm on Instagram. Come find me on Instagram. I like Instagram. Also,
38:13
Speaker 1: you have a podcast, I do. I do think I
38:17
Speaker 1: knew that. So yeah, I've got a fucking pull teeth.
38:21
Speaker 3: I got it and it's called the Self Help bandidote
38:25
Speaker 3: and I have a website called the Self hel band
38:27
Speaker 3: todote dot com.
38:30
Speaker 1: And how ironic that you can't help yourself when I
38:32
Speaker 1: give you an opportunity to do so. At the end
38:34
Speaker 1: of the podcast, you fuck an idiot. We need most Yeah,
38:39
Speaker 1: but you're my idiot.
38:40
Speaker 3: I love you, and it's a self help antidote, so
38:42
Speaker 3: basically I'm right on target.
38:46
Speaker 1: That's it for the antithesis of helping oneself. Love you, mate, Tiffany,
38:53
Speaker 1: and cook your ace. Thank you, will see you next time. Everyone,