Latest / FOURTH & BONILLA / Ep. 25 - The "Jordan Stopper" & Former New York Knick - Gerald Wilkins

Transcript

Ep. 25 - The "Jordan Stopper" & Former New York Knick - Gerald Wilkins · FOURTH & BONILLA

• speaker-0: message hopefully he's not delayed. That would put us real in a real predicament here. Well it's good that we have it at ten thirty. That helps. Yeah, I guess. Like an a an hour fifteen interview is solid, though. That's a lot of time. Especially for him. Do you want me to give that that ⁓ that icebreaker in the beginning just so he knows, like time wise and stuff? Like Yeah, yeah. We'll share that with you. I'll ask ⁓ like, you know, do you have any hard hard cutoffs? You know, usually we we let the conversation kinda go. ⁓ but obviously you want to be conscious of your time. This chair sucks, dude. Yeah, I don't sit I stand the entire time with these things. I would, but my the like lighting on this, you know, doesn't ⁓ bode well for me. Like I can't I can't get the lighting like that. There's no outlets. You know what I meant to tell you? To get her to change the background for fourth and banilla. Why? To get it at basketball on the T V. I can't do it this fast, bro. Yeah. Or can you No no not work un necessary. ⁓ timer or you're just gonna look at the time? ⁓ that was loud. You there? Yeah, I'm here. Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ timer. I think I'm I'm looking at let's be cognizant of it. Okay. It's a little late though. Let's give ⁓ till nine twenty and then start to I did put a wear in it. ⁓ I probably should start this. Start what? I probably should ⁓ start a separate email chain with and not with oats, right? Yes, this is a good time to do that. Damn, I feel like it's editing a little. Like do you see me like pausing every once in a while or no? No, you're good. Hey Jerry, we're in the Zoom room. ⁓ let us know if you're ready. ⁓ good when you are. Good yeah, good when you are. Or ready when you are. Do you get like a ping or something? Someone's in the lobby kind of thing. Yeah, like you get like participants and and then But does it like actually ping or you have to l be looking at the desktop? I have be looking. I have to be looking. Yeah, yeah. That's important. Yeah. We went from two to zero podcast. That would be hilarious. We're all hyped here. Now because it's got you know what I feel like we need to do better at? Like we need to do better at ⁓ yeah, definitely send it now, dude. ⁓ like reactions after I feel like we're always saying, ⁓ man, that's that's so cool, or like I just feel like you say the same shit like a like a same way. But what's great is like e when you cut it it doesn't matter. ⁓ that's true. But but But still naturally for the long form, it's just better for us to start to w get better transition ⁓ better transition like questions or or like ways to transition. Yeah, yeah. Like that's like we were like, ⁓ that's amazing kind of thing. Yeah. ⁓ he responded. Yeah I wouldn't zoom. How how old how old is he again, Mike? ⁓ I can ask, hold on. Two. Okay, there you go. So nine playoff appearances, five with the Knicks, two with Cleveland and two with the Magic. Nine playoff say it again. Nine playoff appearances, five with the Knicks, two with Cleveland and f and two with Magic. ⁓ the furthest he went was second round four times. Three with the Knicks and one with Cleveland. Yeah. It's like it's never final until it's until it's final. We don't actually have ⁓ until we have ⁓ I know. Look, remember remember ⁓ Langston? dude, that was wild. He's here. Ready, boss? You ready? I'm ready. Gerald. All right, let's do it. Let's kill it, Mike. Let's kill it. Gerald Gerald You're on mute if you're ⁓ if you're talking. Talking. And your video's not showing yet. Right, we got the video going. ⁓ no audio yet. Just video. We can see you. There we go. There we go. Listen, who's the dude who's who's the who's the who's the nice looking guy with the Yankee hat? That's me, boss. That's that's Pete. That's Pete's younger brother, Mike. That's what's up, bro. That's it. Hey, we gotta represent. Hey, you better. It's always New York, man. Always, man. How's everything, Gerald? Listen, man, everything is really, really good. I'm having a good time up here in this city. Being here it's probably one of the longest stints I've had so far. ⁓ absolutely. ⁓ dude, we've been talking about it this entire time. We I just the feeling is different, man. Well, you know the thing is and it should be, 'cause you know, when you've gone this long, you see my hat, you see the rings? ⁓ hell yeah. ⁓ wait, that's sick. You Actually, Gerald, is it any way you could turn the ⁓ the camera? Are you going on cell phone right now? Yeah, you turn it sideways. Let me see. Yeah, because I think it'll adjust. It'll it should adjust. Okay, hold on. It just went out. Wait, wait a minute. You you see me? No, yeah. No, it's blocked. Okay, let come back. Let me come back. There it go. Yeah. All good. You know, you're good. You're good. You can leave it like that. It's fine. You s you sound great. Yeah, yeah, you're good. ⁓ So so Gerald, send us a picture of of the of the hat after after the conversation. Yeah, I'll send you a picture. You see that? Yes, sir. Kind of fun it's amazing. ⁓ so just to give you some background, I want to make sure like we, you know, we use your time wisely. ⁓ do you have any cutoffs like ⁓ in the next you know, hour or so? I just want to make sure like we're we're in your time frame. ⁓ man, I'm here for you guys, Mike. appreciate you. Perfect. Perfect. Unless a beautiful woman just start knocking on the door, I think you're gonna lose that battle. I think you're gonna lose that. And that'd be fair. Fair enough. and and ⁓ this isn't a live stream or any of that stuff, so we get to like you know edit whatever we want afterwards. you know, we try we try to have a ⁓ you know a long conversation. We wanna really learn about yourself. So just wanted to give you that that ⁓ upfront. ⁓ okay, so Just before we actually get into the meat of things, I saw that you had six siblings, which is awesome having a big family. Like, talk to me. Was it always about sports with them? Or like is that where your competitive drive like started between the siblings, or how did that go? Well it was actually seven. It was eight of us. Okay. Eight total. Yeah, tot total. Four four boys, four girls. You know, I was ⁓ the middle child, you know, the one that they didn't see coming, but I always showed up. ⁓ but It was a lot of competition between me and my brothers. And I really didn't play get a chance to play with my brother Dominique a lot. I really didn't get a chance to vibe with him. He was so much bigger than I was growing up. I grew six I grew four inches once I left high school. So my sisters, they did they weren't athletic. They didn't play much at all. But just my brothers, the four of us. And ⁓ I learned I'd learned with the clothes hanger on top of the door, you know. And ⁓ that's kind of how that went. Grew up in Baltimore. ended up leaving from Baltimore going to North Carolina because Dominique was playing down in North Carolina. Washington Pam Pack, they went seventy three and two in the three two seasons he was there. Went on to be a great player, Georgia. You know, I'm still, you know, carrying bags. mopping floors, but you know, end up making way making end up making my way into the family tree. But ⁓ that's how that kind of went and then ⁓ ended up in Atlanta because my brother went to Georgia and we we kind of seemed to follow him everywhere he went, you know. So ⁓ my mother must have knew something that we didn't know and he ended up becoming that great player. And I was kind of like the the guy that came around the corner out of nowhere. I mean, you're not giving yourself enough credit, man. You had an unbelievable career, and I can't wait to talk about the details. So that's amazing though. I I love I wish we had more brothers and sisters. My parents come from a lot of ⁓ brothers and sisters too. So it kind of resonated once I saw that. Okay. Gerald, like like my brother said, my Mike said, ⁓ this is ⁓ my name's Pete. ⁓ you're not giving yourself enough credit. You were part of a a amazing draft class, nineteen eighty five. Patrick Ewing was the first draft pick. We got we have some ⁓ w worthy other players. ⁓ we got Chris Mullen, Detlef, Charles Oakley, Ed Pinckney I mean, you have you can go down the list. It was a heck of a draft, I I I must say. ⁓ you know what the fun know what's funny about that, Pete? Mike, I really I really didn't even know that those guys was there because I came out of Chattanooga. You know, I'm the last player picked in the second round. You know, w ⁓ Who's the guy that played for NC State that got the dunk when they won the when they won the title? Can you recall him? He played NC State, won the title, and he caught the miss, the air ball, and dunked the basketball. He was the 48th pick to Atlanta. And I'm thinking I'm going to Atlanta because the 48th pick, and they didn't choose me. He actually passed away about a two years ago. He hit the jumper. But anyway, ⁓ not a jumper, but he caught the missed shot. You know, so I I guess. Was it Kenny Patterson? Jared? No, it wasn't Patterson. NC State. He played for NC State. He was the big boy. He was a big boy. He was a he ended up going to Atlanta with the forty eighth pick in the eighty four, eighty five draft. You know exactly what I'm talking about. We gotta look that up for sure. Lorenzo Charles? Yes, Lorenzo Charles. Yep. Well, there you go. And he went to Atlanta. That's right. He went to Atlanta. dang that would have been nice if you went to Atlanta, huh? Atlanta. Yeah, when I called my brother, I said, Listen, if you know, I don't know where I'm going, but ⁓ you know you guys got the forty eighth pick, you need to you need to take me. He said, Well, that means I'm gonna have to share the road with you. I said, You Should! speaker-2: You speaker-0: Take us like to like down memory lane there, like about draft night, going into that night, like that feeling, like you know, am I gonna get drafted? Like where am I gonna get drafted? ⁓ like can you tell us that that feeling you had that night? It's it's kinda weird. You know, I I was dating a young lady, her name was Vita, and she was my ⁓ you know, college, you know, sweetheart. And we just happened to go up there. I I didn't even have an agent. And my mother Who was a Dominique Wilkins fan. She do, you know, she always she was a Gerald Wilkins fan every now and then. Right? She decided she's gonna go with us, but she was actually going to the Secaucus Outlets. She really wasn't coming in for the draft. Right. So we there. So we there. And my mother just happened to be there with her. We there, we sitting there, and Patrick Ewing obviously was a No. 1 pick. I go 48 straight picks from there. And I'm the last player picked in the second round. No one else is in there but me. Now taking mine, I'm thinking I'm going to Cleveland because they called me up and said, you know, we're gonna we're gonna take you with our first pick. I'm thinking I'm going to Cleveland. Never happened. Next thing you know, they get to the 49th ace pick. I'm thinking Lorenzo Charles, man, they're gonna take me. My brother did the homework, you know. Didn't happen. But then we get to the Knicks. And I said, I looked at my girlfriend and I looked at him. I said, I don't know, I might get picked. Last one there, though. Ain't nobody else but me, the three of us, and and and Adam Simon, whoever it was. With the 49th pick, the Knicks draft Joe Wilkins. I jump up like, yeah. So my mother looks over at me, bro. She says, I didn't know you were that good. I said, What are you doing here, Ma? You didn't I was good. Well, I was about to go over these Secaucus outlets. ⁓ me a call when you get to your room. ⁓ like, I just finished shopping. ⁓ give me a call when come back. Right. So then then the reporter asked me, he said, How do you feel about playing with Patrick Ewing I well, Patrick Ewing's gonna love playing with me just as much I'm playing with him. And he said, You kinda cocky, aren't you? And I said, Well, Dizzy Dean said it ain't bragging if you can do it. And I did it. And I did it right out the gate. You know what I mean? And ⁓ it was it's it's it started from there. It was it was a great feeling though. Not knowing where I was going. I came out of Chattanooga, mid major, you know. And then and then coming to the big apple, becoming the second leading scorer next to ⁓ all time Patrick Ewing. I mean you've played with some other great ⁓ players too. Charles Oakley, Mark Jackson, John Starks, Bernard King. Mo Cheeks, Rod Strickland. I played with a lot of them. Kenny Walker, Johnny Newman, Trent Tucker, Daryl Walker, Roy Sparrow, Bernard King was my guy. He I trained with him every single day in my rookie year. And he thanks me for that every day. Cause he came back, he and I, at the end of that season, when he finally came back, he and I averaged thirty two points a game. At that time Huey had gone, we had Bob, we had Bob Hill. I averaged 27.7 points a game in the second half of the season of my second year. Was voted Knick of the Year. They don't talk about that. It's okay. But that's that's where I was, for sure. ⁓ my God. Like unbelievable. I don't think people understand how impressive that is, considering like at that time, people weren't shooting three pointers so prevalently like they're doing today. So to average that amount that that amount of points, especially how physical the NBA was back then, that's that's crazy. It was crazy for me because I had, you know, Hubie Brown was the head coach at the time. And him and Darrell Walker used to fight every day. Darrell Walker was like a mean mean as a snake. And him and ⁓ Hubie used to fight all the time. And I just had a feeling that, you know, Darrell Walker might not be around. And then but I'm starting at the three spot because Bernard King was hurt, Louis Orr was in contract this dude. And I'm and Ernie Grunfeld is on the team, Bill Cartwright's on the team, Kenny Bannister's on the team, Rory Sparrow I mean, we had some crangy tough ⁓ you know. And so at the end of the day, I ended up starting. Because they started making small four. And I never look back though. But we had we had my first game was against Dr. J. My second game was against James Worthy. and it just kept going Tell us that story. Tell us that story. ⁓ Dr. J, James Worthy. Like you walk on that court. Do you remember any specific plays or an anything like All I can remember when I played Dr. J was seeing number six. Because Dr. J was actually my favorite player. You know what I mean? I had my game behind that statue taking off. And all I saw was number six. Beautiful thing. James Worthy in the next night in LA. All right. Come back east. I get my I get Boston. I played Larry Bird. Unbelievable. Each of ⁓ each one of them I they averaged I think the first five games I got averaged on about twenty five points a game. And my brother gave me thirty in Atlanta on the fourth game. ⁓ I gave him some numbers though. He just took it out on me. I was like he was talking trash. I said, Big bro, you know, get throw me a bone. Come on, bro. You guys didn't come to the hotel and see me when I came to town. Now you want to just, you know, try to destroy me. But that just made my career. Them first four games was outstanding for me. It made my career because I ended up getting moved back over to the shooting guard position. And that's how I got the nickname Dougie in Atlanta in in New York because the song Dougie Fresh, Six Minutes, you're on. The coach used to put me in the games right at the six minute mark before I became a permanent starter, you know, midway through. Uhhuh. Love that. By that time it was Mm. What where so My God, that's like a that's a legendary run right there to start off. ⁓ th that probably set you up for success going forward. I mean you're getting thrown in the fire, right? Like you gotta learn at that point. Like w what better way? 'Cause you're not gonna see the competition like obviously it's only gonna get better as you go along. So if you get that in the first four games, it's like, All right, well I've seen it all now, like let's go. And you and you know I got to look at the schedule before we even see him. So with the schedule came out, I'm saying I'm saying small forward. And I and I remember I remember Hubie Brown calling me in. He's You know you're gonna be the starting small forward. You know, I want you to go look at the schedule and see who you're up against. I said, ⁓ really? I see who I'm up against. It's Bird it's Dominique, it's James Worthy, it's Larry Bird, is it's it's it's Dr. J. And then I didn't even talking about Marques Johnson I'm even talking about Mark Aguirre I wasn't even talking about ⁓ Kiki VanDeWeghe and Alex English yet. It was all them. You know, I said, Coach, how long am I be here? He said, I said, how long am I be at this position? He said, as long as it takes. Right now you're there. We need you there. And I did well I average thirteen points a game my rookie season. Yeah, it's im it's impressive, man. When we were looking over the stats, we're like, dude, this Gerald d like it's like the overshadowing of your brother did not give you the proper spotlight, man. Because And your playoff numbers are off the charts too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. I appreciate guys. And you know, I kinda like you know, the thing about it is but it wasn't long after that I I became my own guy within it it didn't take long. And ⁓ particularly 'cause I was in New York. And I just had this flare for the spectacular at all times and in New York hadn't seen a player like me that can run up and down that court like that. And I was kind of an Iron Man. And ⁓ I can tell you, you know, Patrick Ewing played a major role being the number one pick of the Knicks. And I end up, you know, sh you know, shedding that shadow. And, you know, and thanks to my brother, he never really talked to me. He taught me anything. I was like like bro, talk to me. You play for the Hawks But ⁓ but at the end of the day I enjoyed my career, you know, starting out. I thought it was ⁓ I was proud of myself. I thought I did a a good job coming in under circumstance. And I was I was making $75,000 a year. Yeah, salaries are different back then. Salaries are pretty different, huh? And I know I'm looking at myself on this thing and I know I don't I don't even look my age like that don't even look like it was that long ago. You know what I'm like, geez. But at the same time, it was it was beautiful coming here to New York. It was just outstanding. And that that that just made the difference. That's we're we're we're born and raised ⁓ in in New York. ⁓ and there there's a certain level of respect you get if you perform at a high level. So Speaking speaking of that, playing in Madison Square Garden, give us your favorite story playing in the Mecca. Man, there's so many, man. I would say my best story was the first game of the season with Patrick Ewing when they when they introduced both me and Patrick were starters. The number one pick in their second pick, last play and the second one, we both came with starters. And they were going crazy because the Knicks had rolled the crazy pick. And you hear the roar of the crowd. And I just knew right then, ⁓ my God, I'm in the right place now. I thought it was myself, and Patrick and I became best, best friends, you know, because we really started that train. You know, and ⁓ and then just the just the fact that you knew you had to come with it in the garden. And I always say a lot of teams can go out the night before when they get in town. But it's something about when you're coming down through Times Square, you can be drunk as a skunk, and when all them lights hit you, by the time you get in the garden, they ready to play. And that spotlight don't care who is on. When once it's on you, it's on you. It be it don't matter if it's the other team, what have you. It's them Broadway lights. And these guys come in and they just wanted to set records coming into the garden. You know what I mean? And I know these guys hung out all night. So how didn't how I how the hell are you guys still ready to play? It's the lights, action, camera of New York. And you can see it even still today. It just it doesn't it doesn't discriminate that spotlight on who I want to be in once you're inside that garden. Mike, I know you wanted to ask some questions ⁓ about ⁓ the brotherly competition. Yeah, man. I mean, look, ⁓ you kind of touched on it, right? The whole competitive standpoint ⁓ piece. So I I'm wondering like, was that the drive knowing that he's also playing in the league with you at the same time? And then just like in general, was it always like, Well, everyone's talking about Dominique, but like what about me? And look at the stats that I'm putting up and look at everything that I'm doing, like, did that drive that competitive piece to your game? It was kind of two part to be honest with you, Mike, because I never really took it personal that my brother was who he is. I did I I actually, you know how they say you can't beat him, join him. I took number twenty-one. My brother was number twenty-one. When he first came in. I took twenty-one. I and and and I took off. I never tried to fight the fact that my brother was as good as he would, but I cause I knew I could play. I knew I was good. And I knew I had that same flair for the spectacular, meaning I would come down 360 dunks, reverse dunks, left hand. I'd do all that stuff as well. But I think I had a more complete all-around game. But at the end of the day, me and my brother became the most prolific brother combination in the history of the league. And it still stands today. Me and my brother, when we played each other, we averaged over sixty-five points a game when we played each other. Twelve over double figure rebounds. No, ⁓ yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a actual it's actually a ⁓ documentary out a little short video called The Weird And Crazy History of Brothers in the NBA and it starts off with the Ball Brothers. Okay. I'm gonna have to send you guys that that video. My actually my daughter sent it to me about three, two years ⁓ Yeah, I'm gonna have to see and it breaks down who was the almost prolific brother combination, and it was me and my ⁓ It was times we had ⁓ seven points in the game. We did it three times. And it's amazing. I mean, Gerald, that's like seventy seven points between us and a game. We did it three times. Me and my brother baby's gonna get a total of 42. Yeah. Like we're laughing when you see this so hard. They might. And when you see the video, when you see this that I'm gonna send it, you guys, it's gonna blow your mind. And they got the book the Gasol brothers in there, the Ball brothers, they got the ⁓ the two twins who just saw them on ESPN today. ⁓ forget their names. ⁓ The Morris twins? Not the Morris twins. The Morris twins, they're they're on it, they're on it. The three the the ones that the the the three brothers that Brooke Lopez, yeah, the Lopez brothers. Lopez brothers is on there. It's about it's about ⁓ Steph Steph and ⁓ Steph and Seth is on there. Yep, yep, yep. J ⁓ the the the Champagnie brothers. ⁓ yeah, then they had then they had the ⁓ they had they had ⁓ what's the guy's name? The three guys who played, ⁓ one played for Milwaukee, the other one played he was he was with Milwaukee and they won the championship with Jrue. Jrue Holiday. Jrue Holiday brothers were on the Giannis. But it also had the Ha Holiday Brothers on there too. Yep. ⁓ that's right. That's right. But it starts it off it starts it off with the Ball brothers. You know, and it and it just and it narrates all the way. And it even go back all the way back to the Van Arsdale's brothers. But then it's thing, man. It is incredible, bro. And then it gets to the end, and we said, But we think we found. The two most prolific brother scoring combinations in the hit. And it's by far. It's like it ain't even close. Not even close. I love that. I love that. And it's a good transition to ⁓ the the dunk contest. I mean, like, how many times could you ever say that that's happen? That's probably never happened outside of you two [Dominique]. Like you representing New York, obviously, in '86 and '87 You're both there. Like, talk to me about that weekend. Did you guys like Map out the dunks, or you like talking trash to each other, or was it just strictly business and you were like, I'm gonna show him up and he's gonna show me you up and you guys like walked into the to the dunk contest like that? You know what? H this was crazy. Me and my brother really never had a true relationship, you know, as far as how we talked to each other during during the times we was in the league. And I I mean I can give you some serious stories about that, but That particular day, I really didn't even see my brother until the dunk contest. My mother, my whole family was Dominique Wilkins fans. I was the one they really never even came to see play because he came before me. And it was all about him. So, and that kind of carried on the thread through our our career until we played each other. And I felt like I had a chip on my shoulder to show. And but anyway, at that time, I felt that I had to come up with something. That would separate me from him in that dunk contest. And it was between and me and Trent Tucker had a conversation before my first dunk. And he said, Gerald, "I think you need to put the chair down and jump over the chair." I said, But they don't let you use an object. He said, just put it out there. Yeah, well, they're gonna do Take in mind that Spud in there, he's from Dallas, and Dominique and then Terence Stansbury. And what I go do, I put the chair out there. And the league didn't say anything. And I went and jumped over it. And I got the first 50 in a Dunk contest. My brother, I came running back the first 50 in that contest. In that dunk contest. Okay. Yep. But here's the crazy part about it, Pete. That was the first time that an object was used in a dunk contest. I read that. And from that day forward, after that gun contest, yeah, after that dunk contest, everybody started putting objects in. And that's where the whole jumping over cars and all that. I started. I was the first person to ever do it. I've and got the first 50 of anybody who's ever done it. ⁓ my God. So that was crazy. That was a crazy dunk contest. I went on to take fourth in that dunk contest, Spud ended up winning it. Kind of stole it from Neek because but he was in Dallas and he was a little guy. And he was kind of spectacular. It's all like the story too, right? Like you just said, the little guy, right? ⁓ I mean, you guys had some powerhouses in that dunk contest, though. There's no doubt about it. ⁓ before we transition like past the Knicks, because obviously the Knicks was like a ⁓ you know a large portion of that piece, like we gotta talk about what's happening right now. We're obviously witnessing a once-in-a-lifetime NBA finals. ⁓ you saw the way the MSG was rocking in game four, which is just I'm literally goosebumps right now, the way that I'm talking about it. Talk to me about like what that triggers for you in terms of like the crowd and the buzz and everything you felt during the eighties when you guys really were were pushing. Is it is it like do you feel like it's the same or do you feel like it's different? Like what do you think? It's kind of like the same, but then you got this crew of guys with Brunson, Hart, Anunoby ⁓ Towns, Bridges, you know, Alvarado. Jordan Clarkston, Mitchell Robinson and and Brown and the Thibodeau era just taken to a whole another level. And we're here now. And we and and and even though we waited so long, the Knicks always brought the former players back. They appreciated that. They always brought us back. But now we're here. And not only are we winning this thing, we're winning it in record numbers. And it's crazy because If we're gonna wait this long to get it, then set records. Guys hand in it on and Anunoby tip and blocked. Two great plays right there will go down the history, particularly we bring home this chip. We go 49 straight days without a loss. That's insane. And that's insane. And it's still some left in the playoffs now, not regular season, in the playoffs. And the and and people are still a little nervous, and we up three one. It's crazy. It's like because it puts your song and it's it'd be in that garden. It's that history though, you know? I mean, look, like we we've all seen it, right? Like it's tough when you've been going through so many years and you're just like, is it gonna happen? Is it not? Like you like you start to really believe like these superstitions and like things, you're like, come on, like this is ridiculous. They're actually showing it on paper that they've done it multiple times. What what was the the stat that I saw recently? Like, ⁓ the amount of games that they've won double digits in a row has never been done, that's one. And then obviously the the biggest comeback in finals history was it was game four, which is just under but think about game one against Cleveland. Yeah. We were down twenty seven with less time on the clock. And we erased a twenty seven point lead and one by eleven. We went on we went on a forty four to eleven run. We was beating Atlanta by sixty two by sixty two points at one time in the playoffs on their home floor. What did Dominique say about that? You must have must have threw that in his face. Here's the thing. My brother never talked to me one day about that series. Not one second, not one play. And he hasn't spoken to me at all throughout this whole playoffs in this run that the Knicks won. I said, bro, it's gotta be something in the milk ain't clean. What's up with that? Are you still mad? I was a Knick and you was a Hawk But ⁓ but at the same time, you know, and he knows that I'm gonna get him. He knows and I'm gonna get him, Pete. That's why he hasn't hit that's why he didn't hit you up. Hey bruh. How you like me now? How you like me now? Hey I'm I'm I'm even gonna call Mike Jordan. I'm gonna call Jordan say Jordan, how you like me now? He got that ring, big dog. Yeah, you you kept us from it for yeah, but look what how we did it. How look how we did it. It didn't look this good when when you when you was doing it in Chicago. It was cool. It was fun. They called your name, but it don't look like it looks like it here in the garden. Nah. Never, never. Like it in New York is just different, man. It's different. Like you can win in you can win anywhere, but in New York, it's on a whole nother level. It's just a whole nother level, man. That's what I said. I mean, this is this is this is this is bananas the way this thing is. Hell President Trump don't come to game five or or the championship games. He come to game three. For real. You know, it's a game seven, but no, he comes to game three. That's how exciting. He he bought his towers back and then took the bus with all the security and came to the game. It was amazing out there, bro. And they can say what they say about the president. You know, at the end of the day, the president wasn't on that court when he lost that game. And not a player in that locker room on both sides would say, because San Antonio wasn't saying it was because of what? Trump that they won. And the players wasn't saying because of Trump that they lost. They would never say that. We were talking to a former Knick ⁓ Langston Galloway. ⁓ I don't know if you're you're aware of him, but he he we played and ⁓ he we were talking about it and he was like, Look, like when it when it comes to these games, when it ends up being a little more than just the game kind of thing, especially at MSG, especially at the hype, like not that it takes the the sails out of like the players wind kind of thing, but it's it just becomes like more than just the game. It's just all these things. But to but like I hear your point there and I I like that perspective because like at the end of the day you're Like these guys are professionals, right? Like they've been in here. Obviously we know it's different in New York, but at the end of the day, like the game is the game, right? Like once you once those nerves go in the first quarter, I'm sure like the buzz has never been like that. It's the same game. Like you guys are mentally focused. You're in it. So I don't know how much that changes. It does, it does. And at the same time, you got a you had a desperate team. You had a desperate team in San Antonio. Exactly. We we we just hit the must win row. It's a must win. And guess what? I s I thought something was gonna be different when I saw Adam Silver come in and he walked he went right over to the with it damn there with the scores table and all that stuff in. He was like, Listen, we got the face of the league. And right now he got two black eyes. speaker-1: Hahaha! speaker-0: You've got two black eyes. We we can we get another one? You can kind of just feel it. And you know, they they weren't supposed to get that game three. That was a four-point. And then we and then they go up 29 in game four. Twenty-nine. They were up 31 points. And we come back and erase that lead. It seemed like in the tip and the block and the way the whole crowd was going. ⁓ my god, man. Ticket sales a hundred fifty, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand for a seat and they paying it. I can't believe that. When I saw that, I just could not believe that. ⁓ all right, P, I know you said you wanted to transition to Cleveland. ⁓ go ahead. No, no, yeah. I ⁓ yeah, I I'm just gonna reiterate that that was an insane run. ⁓ we were we were go we're still like getting over it. I went to bed at three thirty in the morning. ⁓ but anyway, you mentioned Michael. was one of the people that you would call and the Cleveland Cavaliers signed you a free agency in ninety two, I believe. ⁓ after your Knicks ⁓ And one of the primary reasons was you were a a premier ⁓ perimeter defender and that your job was to guard number twenty three on the Chicago Bulls. So tell us all ⁓ it's all started that's a great question. I knew that's always the question is I'm asked, you know what I mean? I did a broadcast earlier today was the best ⁓ But Michael Jordan, you know, was one of those guys who who just put fear in 98.9% of everybody he went against. And I felt like I could not have that fear. And it started with the Pat Riley years. And Pat Riley, I'll never forget, came and told me, he said, Listen, from this point forward, you're playing for me. Any game you play and you score 20 and you do this and you dunk. He said, I'm just gonna call them pretty games. He said, for one thing, he said, but For one thing, for goddamn sure, we don't get nowhere unless you become the best defender that the world has ever known. Because we gotta get through Chicago. And that's it. And point he said and you ain't gonna get no help. We're not doubling. We're not gonna you're gonna be proud of yourself. And I remember you I remember used to make me play one on one against the whole team ⁓ in practice. And they got to the point they couldn't even get to the basket, you know, and So by the time I got to Cleveland, I was already in that zone. But they didn't start me. They were still starting Craig (Ehlo) It wasn't until the final game of the the series that they started me. You know, and ⁓ and I had to score. You know, so but so but but at the end of ⁓ they labeled me, the Jordan Stopper. And I ain't giving that name ⁓ Well, give us the origin of that story. How how did that how did that label like actually come about? speaker-1: You speaker-0: It came about like you and you was on the right road because Cleveland specifically said, Okay, because the first seven games ⁓ the year before I went to Cleveland, we took Chicago to seven. I held Michael to twenty points. He had fifteen he had he had fourteen points going into the fourth quarter of game six. He couldn't get the ball. He you know what I'm saying? We we won we won three of the first six. It was tied. And every time he would go in the game and or come out of the game, Raleigh would take me out of the game. When he went out of the game, I went out of the game. When he went to the score table, Raleigh didn't even come look at me and say, hey, he said, when he goes in, you go in. And that's how it was. Yeah. It was just he told me to get to the table. He took me out every time Michael went out the game. And every time Michael came into the game, I had to run to the core scores table. But, you know, so I I I made a living, you know, some part in being that. Being that guy who called the Jordan Stopper he knew that he had to come through me. And I knew it had to come through him. You know, and ⁓ Mike, the one thing about him is that his number one goal was to make you scared. If he can make you scared, it's over with. It's over with. And he and he tried to everything was fancy, everything was spectacular, everything, you know, the the the refs was on his side the whole nine yards. I never feared that. And I don't fear it to this day. Was there anything technical that you were going into, like when you were watching film on him or anything that you were just like, All right, if I do this one thing I know I'm gonna limit Michael? You know? Was there anything in particular as you approached this strategically? Yeah, and that's a great question. I think for me, what I did what I did was first of all, I watched a lot of Detroit Piston basketball, you know, and I wanted to see how they handle him in the days that he could not beat them. And Joe Dumars you know. was very, very physical with Mike. Joe Dumars never got emotional with Mike. Joe Dumars n also scored on Mike. But he had Laimbeer He had, you know, Dennis Robbins. He had those guys. He had a a mean ass Isaiah Thomas, you know, as well. And those guys was fearless against him because they already beat him. You know what I'm saying? They they understood the Jordan rules. Now here he comes now. We get by Detroit now. Now it's our time. You see what I'm saying? So by the time I got the mic, the one thing I always said, if I can keep him under what? If I can keep him at fifteen to twenty range in the first three quarters, I got a chance. Because the fourth quarter he owned. Nine out of ten, he owned that fourth quarter because that's and he got the ball every single time. And I used to always say he got the calls. But here's here here's where I I s I was successful. when I was successful. He can't he can't shoot what he can't get. So when my ball denial so my denial game was strong. I never left him. I denied him like he was like I he had he had a a five hundred credit score. He And he was beautiful. I mean, and and I used to put his picture up on my on my on my mirror at home when every day in the summers when I trained. I was brushed my teeth looking at him because I knew I needed to see him more often before I saw him for the first time in any game. And Mike respected that. Mike knew that Gerald's coming. And if you if you if you look in your Google, if you go to your Google right now and you just said in your phone, Siri, who's the Jordan stopper? She'll read my whole life life up. Wife, kids, everybody. She'll say it's me. You can do that right now. You can put Jordan Stopper. You can just put Jordan Stopper in your Google. My name come up beside ⁓ We did our homework, man. It's true. Yeah. The second, the second, yeah. The second we were telling folks that we were going to interview today, they they said the same thing. Like they're like, wait, the Jordan Stopper? I was like, Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. ⁓ you mentioned Joe Go ahead, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, I was gonna say you mentioned Joe Dumar's. Like, you played against some Hall of Famers during your time. I mean you got the bad boys, like you mentioned, ⁓ Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumar's, Dennis Rodman. You got Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish. You got Charles Barkley, swept them in the playoffs. Alonzo Morning and Tim Hardaway. And then even Allen Iverson at the end of your career. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. Give us some legendary c ⁓ stories from one of those one of those folks. I'll give I'll give you I'll give you the I'll give you the Charles Barkley ⁓ Philly series. We sweep I ha I had thirty four in the first game of the series. Hit the hit the three point shot that won the game and ten the to to earn that sweep. So when we were luck watching ⁓ I was watching the game this year when we swept ⁓ they said, When was the last time that the New York Knicks swept Philly? And they showed the shot that I made to win the game that's for the sweep. And every time I see Barkley, Barkley's always like he's giving me dab because he know I was the one who sent him home on that sweep with Philly. You know what mean? And man, I tell you, you talking about some great players. You know, ⁓ like I said, Dr. J to Maurice Cheeks. And we forget about, you know, the Milwaukee Bucks when they had Sidney Moncrief and that whole crew. I played with, you know, Alex English It was, it was it was ⁓ my god, Kiki VanDeWeghe who I was went against. You know, bless his heart, you know, Walter Davis who passed, it's just so he passed, I think was the day or something like that. Another guy, the Greyhound. You know, Walter Davis. Yeah. You know, to play for ⁓ the Denver. You know, ⁓ but one of my favorite guys, you know, from a defense standpoint was ⁓ a guy who played out there in Denver. If we get his name right off, it's gonna come to me. But he was one of the top defenders. And I remember Doggy. His name is Doggy, he's gonna come to me too. One of the things I always felt that in in order for me to be a great player or be be take it another level was to be defensive minded. I've always felt that I had to defend my dream anyway. So I say I might as well defend it on the court. But like you said, Pete, when it comes to all the years of playing in that era, Joe Dumars people forget Kelly Tripucka Have you ever heard of that name? Yep. Kelly Kelly Trapuca was a beast for Detroit. You know what I'm saying? She's a big boy. That boy, he was like John Travolta out there. Playing basketball. That's how he looked. speaker-2: Big boi speaker-0: That's like you. You know what I mean? It was like it was tricky with it. You know, you're talking about Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Rolando Blackman. Mm-hmm. ⁓ my God. We ain't even talking about them boys out there. You know, Clyde "The Glide" Drexler. ⁓ man. ⁓ my ⁓ Love this game, ⁓ It was one of my favorite guys. Quick quick question, Gerald. Like, as you're going through these names, ⁓ I Like I always think about this question, like for folks who played during that era, and then that you see the talent that's now and like the skill now. Like, what do you think the biggest difference is between these eras? Like to me to me, it's like the 80s and the 90s, that you guys were just built different. Like you're you're you were all just bigger and it was a more physical game. So like I get that. That's like the obvious. But then like when you look at the talent now and like the skill level, like the handles, like Do you think it's just at a whole nother level at this point? Or do you feel like there's like these guys could compete with the like your guys could compete with these guys right now, no problem? Like I've always wanted to ask that question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's a great question, Mike. I think the bottom line is this basketball is basketball. The court did not change. It's ninety four by fifty. It did not change. Guys back then. Just like the guys now had to run up and down this court and get up over or or under a ten foot goal. That has not changed. You see what I'm saying? The three point line has been moved out a little bit, but the dimensions haven't changed. So the same players had to run up and down that court. And guess what? The twenty four second shot clock hasn't changed. They were scoring more points back then than it was going down in games. And it wasn't a three point shot launched every f every other play. Which is crazy. So that tells you the the the skill of those guys back then, no matter what you do. Now, the guys today, they got better handles, but the defense is not as good because there's not as that's not physical. It don't take but one or two dribbles to get by a guy now. It don't take but one or two dribbles to get by a guy. And you can't hand check, you can't even close out. You come down on somebody's foot, that's a flagrant, let alone. But see, like that's that's a big distinction right there. Right, Gerald, that's a big distinction right there. Because if you're telling a player that you can't be physical, then clearly that's gonna change the game like significantly. But now I'm saying now now the question is, like, and I've always said this too, because like anyone ⁓ we we we'll go down the goat and we'll go down all that route in a second, but like when people say, ⁓ LeBron doesn't have ⁓ like there's a certain competitive drive that he doesn't have that like Jordan and Kobe had my my take on that is like if you tell LeBron You can be as physical as they were in the eighties and nineties. It's game over. It's game over. It's game over. And here's the thing to it. Here's the thing to it. LeBron James is 6'9, 260. Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan was 210, 212 at best his entire career. ⁓ Okay, now Michael Jordan played 15 years with a 24-month hiatus when he retired. LeBron James played 23 straight years. LeBron James was not developed. He was delivered straight out of high school like a baby. And performed. Michael Jordan wasn't delivered. Michael Jordan, okay, was developed. LeBron James came straight out of high school as the number one pick in the draft. I don't care how he never had a major injury once. And guess what, guys? The guy's still riding in the gap because he's still playing. Would you take Michael at 41 or would you take LeBron at 41? Yeah, it's a no brainer. It's a no brainer. And the stats look so LeBron is a and these guys could definitely get up and down. I feel they they will adjust to the physicality. Are you gonna tell me that Giannis Antetokounmpo couldn't play back then? Yeah, I wish. Exactly. Are you gonna tell me that Jokic ⁓ you're tell me that Jokic couldn't bang and pop back then? He could. And and Steph Curry, the same sh way he's shooting now, it's the same way he could shoot, but he would he would be shooting if he was back there playing. He's a man it it it You know, it's ⁓ it's called adjustments and the body makes the adjustments. Now, were they asked to play that physical in this era than it was back then? No. But they would make the adjustment. Now, we had a lot more players playing on the court from a five-player standpoint. You had bigs inside, you had a power forward, you had a small forward, you had a shooting guard, you had a point. These days you don't know who's shooting guard, you don't know who's the center. It's true though. Positionless basketball. At the end of the day, there's no play calling. There's no play calling as far as when the when the players come off the bench, they don't know which play to run because everything is isolation and everything is what pick and roll. But it is an adjustment. But at the end of the day, guys, it's still ninety-four by fifty. And at the end of the day, those same guys who was putting up numbers back then is no different than the same guys who's putting up numbers now on the same court with a ten foot goal, with a twenty one twenty two foot three-point card line. But you know what? You make a good point there. Like there's no play calls and whatnot. Like the coaching is changed too. And you pla ⁓ I believe Patino coached you. Was it early on in your career? Yeah, he coached me my third year. Your third year. Do you have any Patino stories for us? I mean I team I love Patino, man. Patino I was the baseline on who's in shape and who's not. Coach used to make me stand there. If you can beat Gerald, you're in shape. If you're not, you you you're you're you're fine. I'm fining you. If you can't run with Gerald, you're getting fine. You know, I just saw Rick the other day too. And every time I see him, he always talks about I was the greatest, you know, shooting guard he's ever coached. I was the was best guard he's ever coached. And and and and I love Rick. Rick, we we we ran that press and that was huge for us. We were the shooting the threes when no one else was. Rick Pitino was outstanding. Pat Riley, outstanding coach. Pat Riley, I got a chance to play with him, the most demanding coach that the world has ever known. You know. ⁓ But yes, you're right. And that's a great point too. There's no Hall of Fame coaches in the league. There were seven Hall of several Hall of Fame coaches that was and that was key. Back then, coaching. You know what I'm saying? You look at all the coaches now. Coaches had a lot of the coaches back then, they had personality. From Chuck Daly, you know, obviously Popovich, you know, you had ⁓ what's his name? ⁓ Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson, you had ⁓ what's the guy that used to coach Atlanta? ⁓ little shorter guy. ⁓ Mike Fratello Lenny Wilkins, you know, the list go on and on and on. You know, Bob Hill, ⁓ man, you got all these great coaches, man. It was back then. You know, the what's the coach name that coached ⁓ coached ⁓ Seattle? ⁓ I thought it was Lenny. No? No, no, he did. He did he did early, but you had the other coach who coached with coached ⁓ ⁓ Carl, Carl. Carl, Carl, Carl, yep. You got it. You got it. Yeah, George Carl, George Carl. George Carl. And you know, you know it what's the coach from Houston? Remember the coach from Houston who coached ⁓ Hakeem Olajuwon one and that crew? So I'm losing you guys right now. See. See, I'm losing you guys right there. No, you're you're hitting it though. I'm hitting it. ⁓ Dang. But like once once I get it, I'm like, ⁓ yeah, of course. Yeah. You know Who took who took Houston to two back to back championships. I forgot his name. No. No, no. Man, it's ⁓ you you you if you if you do your home. We'll know the name what you say. Right. That was a great question on the coaches because the coaches you know, but I played for Hubie Brown. Yep. I played for you know my God. I mean stud. It's it's amazing. It's amazing that the coaches. So when you look at the coaches now, you got a lot of young coaches now that's trying to make it happen. You know, ⁓ but if you had to pick a Hall of Fame coach right now, I would have to go with Spostra. He would be the only one right now that I would say who's did a fantastic job and still at the end. Spo he's the man. He is the man, and his story is crazy. Starting in the film room and then all the way up to head coach. I mean, come on. There's nothing better than that. Yeah. ⁓ Okay. So I had a question for you in terms of out of your whole career. When did you feel you had the best chance to make the NBA finals? Like with what team? What crew? That team the team that has ⁓ that the Riley coaches with Mason, Xavier McDaniels, Patrick Ewing myself, Mark Jackson, Charles Oakley, Kiki Vandeweghe ⁓ Greg Anthony, John Starks, ⁓ Charles that whole crew right there that was and we was there. We were there. We beat we beat Chicago. If we beat Chicago, we go we go to the championship. And guess who went to the won the championship that year? It was Chicago. But we were the team who took them to seventh. You know? And if they don't call three fouls on me in first quarter, we got a chance. Yeah, they're on the game earlier. Jordan was like the ⁓ he was the guy of the league, you know, the the face of the league. They wanted Jordan to to they they they did they were like the NBA was a master of storytelling at that time period. They were trying, they were on the up of the up. And Jordan going to the championship probably was part of that puzzle. Well Jordan, Jordan, like you said, Jordan was a was a different beast, bro. He was the beast of the East once he became it. But he lost his first six, seven years in the league. He was ⁓ he was ousted in the first second round every year. Yep. Yep. In the first six seven years before Phil and before Scotty and before Horace Grant became who they became. He wasn't winning games. And they always say, Well, he got six rings. Well, he lost in the in the previous rounds before he even got to the finals. Like for instance, LeBron James, for example. He went ten straight times. That means he was the best in his league in his in his conference for ten straight years. A decade. A decade. That's insane. A decade. How is it that how is it that you don't count the fact that Michael lost before he got to the final? Yeah. Yeah. You have to if this it has to be a fact. You have to account for that. I guess the only thing that you he has in his his sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Gerald One thing that I wanted to just say on that piece is like he had the back to back, right? Three. So like I think that's really where it ends up being like, damn it don't matter. Like he did it three times in a row. If if that's the case, guess who won won it three times in a row and end up having eight straight? Bill Russell. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna go with Russell had eight and had won a total of eleven. So if you're talking about rings consecutively, and he won two as a coach, it would be real Russell. He never gets thrown into the Goat conversation. Yeah, but like the And and maybe you tell me, Gerald, am I bugging on this though? For for Bill, like not taking anything away from him. Clearly he's a great, but like talent wise, if we're talking about talent now, and I know we don't like to compare our eras and stuff, but like Would you agree that the talent that the other guys played was way better than who Bill played? First of all, he played two different positions. But Michael wasn't the shot blocker that Bill Russell was, wasn't the rebounder that Bill Russell was. Because most people, you know, have put Michael on his pedal pedal on a pedestal because there's more myth mythology than anything. Because you and I both know Mike knows this. It takes it takes tet this take five, five players minimum to win. So Mike always got the last shot, or he always hit important shots. Mike was a score. But at the end of the day, 11 championships is 11 championships by one person. That's a hard thing to do. That's very hard. You know what I'm saying? Now, the criteria is Jordan shoes, his brand, that's not a stat. And a lot of these kids that wear shoes and do all the things that they do, okay, they're the ones doing all the hype on the mic because of the shoes. But that's not a stat. And guess what? Fear is not a stat. That's because Michael Fear he had to make the that's not a stat. When you look at this from a statistical standpoint, LeBron James, if you look at it from a statistical standpoint, the the length of time, the the the the numbers, all time greatest score. In the history league, playoffs and regular season. He has 10, 10, and 10, 10 rebounds, 10,000 rebounds, 10,000 assists, 10,000 points. He came straight out of high school. He was an impact from day one. He played in ten finals. He's unbelievable, man. Every time we go through these stats, I just like I I really can't believe that he's able to do that. Or like we've we're witnessing this. And people are are actually trying to Shit on him, which is like insane. And you know why they do that? You know why they do that? You know why they do that? It's because when you are trying to defend a lie, you gotta mute the truth. Meaning everybody mutes once LeBron James name is mentioned and all these debates, they get muted. Because the people that are pushing the Michael Jordan agenda, okay. Of people who just like him more than what? LeBron. But when it comes down to the numbers, when it comes down to from day one, from the time he entered the league, even before he entered the league, he has been the show. He has been the system. And take in mind now, Michael Jordan got 19 months off when he retired. LeBron James from high school all the way Instant impact paid twenty-three straight years and guess what? He's already become the all time leading score last year over and he still has another three years, four years in the tank. And he's still three years left. You gotta account for that. Games played is a stat. That's a stat. You don't get games played unless you take care of your body to be able to go that distance. Ten finals now. Do you know how many how much wear and tear that is? That means that Michael Jordan didn't see ten finals. And he didn't see any finals before his what? His seventh season. Come on, man. You can't tell any lies. You're not telling any lies? Not one. Because you know what? I did the whole math. If this was in the court of law, where we had judges, jury, and everybody where nobody can talk over each other and you had to present the facts. ⁓ it's a no-brainer. And Mike didn't get to play with his son. On the same team. Yeah, that's cru that's that's like so beautiful. Man, and the number one thing is when it comes to this whole thing, when it comes to Mike, and when it comes to LeBron, is the fear factor is still there. The players became before him, the Reggie Millers, the Barkley and all them. If they were to admit that Michael that ⁓ that LeBron James was the best over LeBron over over Mike, Then it then it takes away the fact that the guy who used to kill them shouldn't be. It shouldn't be because now they get an excuse. Their excuse is we had to go through Mike. But if they say Mike wasn't the greatest ever anymore, then what's your excuse? It's true. It mutes that point. You know what I'm saying? So LeBron James will not say himself that he's the best. Why? Because of fear of the backlash that's coming out of all these debates. Because even LeBron hasn't even went and did all the research on himself. He hasn't even done it himself. He I I actually think he just came out with like a quote or something that he that he ⁓ did say that he was the best. He said ⁓ like ⁓ like he'll take it over Jordan like just recently. This literally was like this past week. There must have been an interview or something that he said. Right. No why know why 'cause he heard 'cause he 'cause he probably heard that Gerald Wilkins went and did and went and went and got hired a law firm and we took this thing until the court of law. I feel like I'm at the barber shop right now with goat talking. I love it. This is this is this is fact over this is fact over faith, fact over mythology. And even LeBron James took all this time to finally say a week ago that he's better than Mike. That is nothing but fear. He passed Mike a long time ago. It's crazy, man. Period. And you talking about you're talking about a $7.1 billion shoe deal that Mike pushes every day. But that's not a stat. speaker-1: So. speaker-0: And LeBron and LeBron hasn't even started his like legacy with all that stuff. Like he's just scratching the surface of like podcasts, like businesses, all that stuff. The guy is it's different. ⁓ and he's winding the gap. Well, think about this, Mike, and we'll move on to the next subject. Because I can tell you, I got the whole knockless on this, big dog. This ain't coming out of left field. This is coming from facts. LeBron is still going. He's still Widening the gap as we speak. It's insane. So Mike Mike is loving the fact that he got people speaking for him. Because even Mike ain't even come out lately and said he's better. When is the last time Mike came out and said he's better? It's true. He hasn't. But he also like dodges that question a lot. I've seen like all the the questions that they've ever asked him. He's like What does he say? Different eras like you can't compare, it's a weird question, like all this stuff. Until you see him in the interviews when he until you see him in the interviews when he's not asked that question. He acts like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. All you gotta do is go play rewind the tape of the last dance. The whole that whole last dance was all Mike talking shit about everyone. Until you ask him who's the best. Lately. If you to ask Mike who was the best about five or six, seven years ago. Mike was still the best at that point. But Mike but but LeBron James was making a statement every single year since. And the numbers show it. Mike. But guess who ain't the best all-time lead score? The numbers don't lie. Bro, and if the numbers ain't gonna lie, they never will. And Mike knows that anything. No stats, no greatness. If Mike did not have stats, would he be considered a great player? No. You need the sentence. You need the points. You need the rebounds. You need the assists. You need and it has to be done regularly. You don't if Mike don't have assists. If Mike doesn't have points, if Mike don't have rebounds, if Mike don't how do we get to the finals if he don't have those things? So true, man. So true. Case cool. I know you said y you wanted to go to ⁓ the rapid fire section, right? Yeah. ⁓ really quickly, because you mentioned you mentioned I think I know who your GOAT is. After after we spoke. But let's transition to your brother really quickly on this rapid fire. So we just asked you quick questions. one on one record with your brother playing against each other, Dominique. versus Gerald. ⁓ you know, at the at the in my in my younger day, ⁓ I handed younger day brother. Yep. You know, here's the thing. He never really guarded me. I never really guarded him but every now and then. So we really never got a chance to see. But I know my defense was better. I don't think that my brother could have guarded me as easy as I could have guarded him because I played better D. So rapid fire, I'll give it to my brother in the beginning, but as time went on as a defender, I get him every time. But out of forty two games that we played total, In the pros, I won nineteen. Okay. I won nineteen times against him. Out of the forty two total times we played. That's But if you do twenty one and twenty one. So you just edge. Yeah. He just edged me. Edge me, he edge me. And then you can go do the math. We played forty two games against each other in the pros. And he won twenty two and I won eighteen. Nineteen, something like that. That's an impressive stat. ⁓ and you played with your brother too in your final season, right? My final season in Orlando. That's that's a special moment. You mentioned how LeBron played with his ⁓ his son. ⁓ you you had a son that played in the NBA as well, Damien. Yeah, man. ⁓ what was the record between you and your son one on one? He got he got his ass whooped every time against me. I was that dude finished. But I can say this about my son. My son had a better high school career than me and my brother. My son went, my son was voted the number one player in the nation coming out of high school. He was voted Bob Givens Player of Year. My son, if you look on the list, Bob Gibbons Player of the Year, my son is on that list. Kobe, you know, LeBron, Kevin Garnett. Okay. He was a first team McDonald, all American. My son. Okay. He should have turned pro out of high school. During that time, at the end of that his care ⁓ high school career, every number one player in the nation who came out before him were all lottery picks, he wanted to go to school one and done. And that was the last year you can come out of high school. ⁓ and he went to NC State. Damn. He went to NC State. But they changed it. He was the last player. His year was the last year you can come out of high school. I told him to turn pro. He wanted to go one and done and he went to NC State. Why why did he want to go so bad to college? It was something regards to his mom because his my my son I had my son in high school. I was in high school and had my son. I didn't get him until he was eighth grade. He wasn't playing a down. My son didn't even play basketball. And I turned his whole career around, whole life around. And by the time my son was a junior in high school, they were already talking about him being the number one player in the nation. They beat Tracy McGrady's team for the national title. They went 36 0. He played for St. John's Prospect Hall. They beat Oak Hill for the for the for the championship. And he started that late too? That's impressive. He started that late. He was ninth grade when he came to me. He really wasn't even playing ball. I had to whoop his ass because he's always al he was always doing something stupid. ⁓ trash talk. I know you're a great trash talkers, well documented. You versus Gary Payton, who's the better trash talker? Well, I'm gonna get that to Gary Payton all day because Gary Payton was known for that. He was he was the guy. Gary Payton was a you know, I wasn't far behind him, you know, but I I was a little bit more here and there. You know, Gary Payton was every single time he touched the floor. And so it's funny because I saw G I saw GP about a month ago in Cleveland. We were doing an appearance together. And we both got in the defensive position and started talking trash at each other right all the way. I love myself and GP, man. I love some self. I mean GP. And guess who else was there? Sean Kemp was there with us. ⁓ shoot. And all he was all he was doing was pointing at me and me and GP like you two son b!tches. Y'all used to go at it. And G P was no joke, man. I love that guy. Love that guy. ⁓ But you know you know who one of my favorite players if I may say? Did I really love at the same time? Was Vernon Maxwell, bro? ⁓ yeah. I mean honestly you I I probably could have said Mad Max over Gary too. Like the Mad Max is just Mad Max. Different crazy person. Mad. Mad Mad bro. speaker-1: You speaker-0: You could tell. I could tell that you know. You're like not. You got you got stories for us, maybe that's off the off camera. Knicks in five, Knicks in six, or Knicks in seven? Well, here's the thing. We we know we got five, six, and seven to play if it goes seven. We know that all we gotta do is win one of the five, six or the seven. It's over. We're winning. We're winning on Saturday. We're winning. And here's the thing. It's gonna be a dog fight in ⁓ San Antonio, bro. Yeah. It's gonna be an absolute dog fight, and you know it's coming. You know, they were throwing eggs at Wemby the other night. I know. You know, when he was walking into the hotel here in New York. And they're not gonna just hand that game over. We gotta go in there and get it. I'm talking and get it. It's gonna be scratching claw. Now you saw what they was trying to do with Brunson and them running into them, just knocking them down. Wimby throwing punches and Yeah. I'm not saying that we get in that game. It's gonna be a battle. But if you had it your way, would you like to see them just come here and take it here at home? I was just about to say that. I was like, honestly. I would love to for that to honestly though, New York's gonna be on fire if that's the case. It'll be on fire big dog. Ticket price. Do not go outside. Game six tickets. god. Don't even that's gonna be off the charts. I I hope you got your tickets already. ⁓ I got mine. I'm I mean I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm cool. Beautiful. I love it. All right. Well Gerald, last traditional question here on the show. Thank you so much for your time. This has been incredible. Last question from me is if you are in your prime, you're in the locker room, you're getting ready for the game, you're about to play a huge game right now. What song are you playing to get you hyped if you listen to music? If that's what you did? Like, what's your one song that you're like, I can get on the court right now? I got you. I got you. Right now, it would be Dougie Fresh, six minutes. Six minutes. Six minutes, Dougie Fresh. You're all ⁓ speaker-1: YAY! speaker-0: I love it. Here we go. Here we go. Don't forget the show. That was the song, bro. When I played that song, man, I knew I was gonna be balling. And I made sure I had it on on sure. Or just rewind. Just keep going. You know, but that song right there, and we used to play it. We used to play it every day. in the locker room for a while. Even Bobby Brown's like, all right, six minutes, ⁓ put the song on Tiro Let's go. That was the one. And the other one and the other one and the other one for me guys was ⁓ Groove Tonight. That's Groove tonight. Groove tonight. That's a great song. Right. That's groov that one right there, but that six minutes was the one. These days they got all the raps. They got Future, they got Drake, they got everybody, man. Yeah. But that's thank you for the time, man. This is this was like the best surprise ever. and we are ⁓ on an epic run, and I'm happy that we got to share this with you and your story. ⁓ it is a special one and the world deserves to hear it. Man, I I I really I really was looking forward to this guy. You know, I and it's the thing is I did a podcast earlier. You guys might want to go check it out with WFAN. You know what I mean? But ⁓ Carlos Man, when I tell you when I tell you what's fun, this was just on the same level. l a little bit more even deeper. But it was so much fun and it just set me up to be on the show with you guys, man. And ⁓ it's really like my my coming out part of here a little bit because I really strategically kind of kept myself behind the scenes. But knowing that we in this position right now is in New York, this New York City, this Manhattan, this all of Bronx, Brooklyn, Long Island, from coast to coast the energy is just crazy. And I wouldn't wanna just share more with you guys, Mike Pete. This has been outstanding, man. And ⁓ I appreciate you guys having me on. I appreciate you guys, you know, being having the wealth of knowledge that you guys really have and and taking the time. Gerald. And hopefully, I don't know, maybe another time if you're gracious enough we'll we'll we'll get you back on and honestly we we could talk to you for hours and days. You have to say, man. We got we got we got we we we got so much more, man. It's so much more and I would love to don't don't don't hesitate. Don't hesitate to reach out to you know John and ⁓ You know, people that know you well that's got to set this thing up. And ⁓ maybe we can have this conversation again once we get that chip. Yes. I know you guys are gonna be at the parade. I know you guys be at that parade. It's happening. We gotta l we gotta link up. Can you can you imagine that parade, guys? It's ⁓ my god. It's gonna be insane. It's it's I'm telling you. It's gonna be one of the biggest parades. It'll be on fire the night of and then the parade is gonna happen right after. You talking about All of New York City going crazy at the parade. We're gonna set the we're gonna set the bar for parades, bro. Yeah. It's gonna be it's gonna we're gonna light it fire. ⁓ man. Yeah. Anyway, Gerald, thank you, man. We gotta we gotta run to the next ⁓ interview, but ⁓ you've been fantastic. Thank you guys. Appreciate you, Mike Appreciate you, Pete. All right, Gerald. Be good. Have a good one. All right, thanks. Bye bye. Bye bye.