Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 26: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 4 - Addressing Fears From the Betrayer

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26: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 4 - Addressing Fears From the Betrayer · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey y'all, welcome back. So we are going to continue the
• 0:03
  conversation around the full disclosures, the therapeutic
• 0:06
  full disclosures and we're getting some questions come up
• 0:10
  and I really value those. So thank you so much for sharing
• 0:13
  them because there's a lot of we're going to address today the
• 0:16
  fear because there's some really valid fear to come up that you
• 0:21
  might be like yeah, I already thought about that or mile, that
• 0:24
  one didn't even occur to me. So people wanted to address a
• 0:27
  few of these. So some of those fears being,
• 0:30
  how in the world am I supposed to remember everything?
• 0:32
  That doesn't even seem possible. The fear of not being perfect
• 0:35
  through the disclosure. If I can't remember everything,
• 0:38
  then what if I don't remember everything?
• 0:40
  What if it's imperfect? And that fear of, OK, what's the
• 0:43
  outcome? What would I expect after the
• 0:45
  Full disclosure happens? And just the emotions, I don't
• 0:49
  think I can take the emotions from this and what it's like to
• 0:52
  let go of the control. So we're going to be addressing
• 0:54
  that stuff today. So looking forward to continue
• 0:57
  the conversations and always, please continue to share what
• 1:00
  you're thinking and what this brings up for you by reaching
• 1:02
  out to us. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
• 1:07
  podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
• 1:10
  I'm thrilled to have you join me in this space today.
• 1:12
  What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
• 1:14
  triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
• 1:18
  Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
• 1:20
  moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
• 1:23
  commitment to self that reveals the rich connection and meaning
• 1:26
  that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
• 1:29
  time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this.
• 1:32
  What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
• 1:35
  You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
• 1:37
  incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
• 1:41
  Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
• 1:43
  immeasurable. So, welcome to be on the Facade.
• 1:46
  Let's get started. Hello everyone, welcome.
• 1:50
  Thanks for joining us. Thank you for hanging in there
• 1:53
  with us as we continue our series around a full therapeutic
• 1:58
  disclosures. Today we are turning the mic
• 2:01
  more so over to Luke. Today we have a couple, I want
• 2:04
  to say questions, but there are more fears, I guess, Luke, that
• 2:07
  really you've seen come up and see come up a lot with the
• 2:11
  clients that you're working with, the ones who have betrayed
• 2:14
  their partner. And I think I'm, I'm just going
• 2:18
  to turn it over to you, but I want to reiterate the two things
• 2:21
  that you mentioned before we hit record just so our listeners can
• 2:25
  kind of have an idea of what we're covering today.
• 2:27
  And so the first one that often comes up is why would my partner
• 2:32
  who I betrayed, why would they need this if they're aware of
• 2:36
  everything? That's a very common question.
• 2:40
  And then again, from the betrayed partners perspective,
• 2:44
  that sense of overwhelm that can come trying to remember
• 2:48
  everything and wondering if can I remember everything?
• 2:52
  I don't think I can. And just that sense of overwhelm
• 2:55
  that can come when you're getting ready to disclose or
• 2:59
  consider disclosing all of the acting out behaviors and
• 3:03
  information to your partner. I'm just going to turn over to
• 3:05
  you and let you run with this one today.
• 3:08
  Thank you. I appreciate that this came up
• 3:10
  because we've had the first episode released and a few men
• 3:16
  have showed up and said I'm willing and I can see them.
• 3:20
  I I feel like I can see them and their intent is solid.
• 3:24
  They really, really want their partner to get healing.
• 3:27
  And there's this part they are so confused about which I want
• 3:31
  to relate to my story and Alana story because we have separate
• 3:36
  stories through this that were joined.
• 3:38
  Is this experience that these men are talking about where
• 3:43
  they're and Alana and I was so many countless conversations
• 3:49
  through the middle of night, through the day, hours and hours
• 3:52
  and hours of talking. And, and at this point, I've
• 3:55
  been like, I, I, I don't want to be in this world anymore.
• 3:59
  I don't want to be in hiding. I don't want to answer your
• 4:01
  questions, but I'm willing to. And I remember just horrible
• 4:07
  experiences that I recognize healing in them where she would
• 4:10
  ask me questions and my stomach would turn and I would answer
• 4:15
  them. I remember laying in bed
• 4:17
  specifically one night and her asking me questions and I'm
• 4:21
  like, Oh my gosh, I don't want to answer.
• 4:23
  I don't want to answer that. And I can I still have a
• 4:26
  visceral response to it. And she'd asked and I would give
• 4:30
  it to her. And then I remember she would,
• 4:33
  her body would respond and would tremors or shaking what
• 4:38
  happened? And remember as I was next to
• 4:42
  her feeling like I was killing her, like as she asked and I
• 4:45
  would give answers. And it was, I mean, I feel
• 4:50
  insensitive saying this because I can't imagine a pain, Alana,
• 4:53
  because I won't know it because I haven't been betrayed, but so
• 4:56
  painful. And I remember just like I
• 5:00
  wasn't going to hold anything back.
• 5:01
  I didn't want to give it, but I didn't want to hold anything
• 5:03
  back. And we went through this
• 5:05
  experienced together and separately and, and I and I just
• 5:11
  remember what that led to after months and months of that.
• 5:15
  Her asking question after question was me one day being
• 5:19
  upstairs, walking downstairs and I saw her at the the kitchen, in
• 5:26
  the kitchen at a table. And she got three pieces of
• 5:29
  paper and she was taping them together long ways so she could
• 5:33
  have a really long piece of paper.
• 5:35
  And I remember her out putting it together a timeline with tick
• 5:40
  Marks and she started writing things down like Matt Luke got
• 5:46
  married, moved to this certain place, had her first child
• 5:52
  timeline, then she started tick marking.
• 5:55
  First time he cheated on me, first time I first time I caught
• 5:59
  him in porn. The second time I found this out
• 6:02
  and I remember being like, why in the hell is she scrapbooking
• 6:08
  this shit? Like, and I'm using all the
• 6:11
  expletives to go, this doesn't make any sense.
• 6:14
  Like stop Alana, please, like stop torturing yourself and
• 6:20
  being so scared of of so many things.
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  And I, and I want to just highlight like it didn't matter
• 6:28
  that I shared all of those things.
• 6:30
  Well, basically she drug it all out of me.
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  Frankly, it didn't matter that I'd shared with her everything
• 6:35
  because the way that she got the information and a lot of this is
• 6:39
  where I kind of like want you to speak for yourself instead of me
• 6:42
  speaking about your experience. But let me, I'll just share this
• 6:45
  part and then please. Which is it had to be delivered
• 6:48
  in a way where she could make sense of in her mind how it all
• 6:52
  lined up so her, what she thought was reality could become
• 6:55
  a new reality. And that's not something that
• 6:58
  was really we needed help and support on that.
• 7:01
  A lot of thoughts on that. Well, first of All, in all the
• 7:05
  times of you telling me through the trickle disclosures, I
• 7:11
  remember the first time learning that your body shaking like
• 7:15
  you're cold but you're not cold is a trauma response.
• 7:18
  I remember learning that and going like, oh, like my body
• 7:22
  literally cannot stop shaking because it is in trauma right
• 7:27
  now. And yet I never had the Full
• 7:32
  disclosure where a therapist was part of us creating that
• 7:37
  timeline. And I needed to take what I knew
• 7:42
  and all these random bits of information and I needed it
• 7:45
  cohesive so I could make sense of it, so I could make sense of
• 7:50
  my story, so I could make sense of my history.
• 7:53
  So it what it felt like in my brain is I had all these pieces
• 7:57
  of information just floating around and I did it just clear
• 8:03
  and concise. And when you're going through
• 8:05
  trauma, so often your brain already feels like this pile of
• 8:10
  jumbled mess and pain and confusion and hurt.
• 8:15
  So I needed it just clear and concise.
• 8:18
  And that's not what I was given. And truthfully, while our
• 8:23
  therapist was really good, we would not have had the Full
• 8:27
  disclosure process in the way that we now know that is
• 8:33
  helpful. So it is what it is.
• 8:35
  It was our story, it was our past, but I needed that.
• 8:40
  And so even with you telling me everything that you had told me
• 8:46
  and I had asked a million and one plus questions, I still
• 8:51
  needed to see it all laid out. I still needed it to make sense
• 8:54
  with my timeline and what I knew is reality.
• 8:58
  And the part that makes me angry today.
• 9:01
  And maybe I'll work through and give it some later, get some
• 9:06
  type of healing around it. Is that through that whole
• 9:09
  entire process you had to leave that Alana like you had to leave
• 9:12
  the whole thing, right? Well, yeah, it's it's the
• 9:16
  difference between active truth telling and passive truth
• 9:21
  telling. And so you were willing to
• 9:24
  answer my questions, sometimes hesitantly, sometimes eagerly.
• 9:28
  Sometimes you just did. But it it was I had the
• 9:32
  responsibility of figuring out what I needed to know.
• 9:35
  I had the responsibility of asking you.
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  I carry the weight of what I ask it in the right way without you
• 9:41
  emotionally getting triggered and walling me off like all of
• 9:45
  that emotional burden was on my shoulders.
• 9:49
  And when we do the Full disclosure process, that person
• 9:54
  who is trying to work their recovery is carrying the weight
• 9:57
  of their own choices and is doing this work and offering
• 10:01
  this information as a gift towards a relationship versus
• 10:04
  asking the B trade partner to do all of this other stuff on top
• 10:09
  of their other healing work. Yeah.
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  So what we want to do is what I wish I had somebody helping me
• 10:15
  do was leading the healing. And I obviously want that for my
• 10:20
  partner too, which is leading the healing.
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  So we can focus on the details and have somebody guiding us
• 10:25
  through that process because that was that's not really fair
• 10:28
  to anybody to try to get reality out of something that either
• 10:31
  person is trying to lead. And what I want to tell the
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  person did the betraying is just because everything's out there
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  doesn't mean it was given to them in a way that's going to be
• 10:41
  makes sense so they can move forward in their healing, OK?
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  It doesn't mean they're going to be able to move forward because
• 10:46
  everything's out there. It matters how it's done.
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  So they have to be able to space where they can hear that
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  information. You can be grounded in that.
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  So you might not be able to move on.
• 10:56
  Well, what you were saying before towards the beginning
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  where the hours and the hours of communicating and talking, that
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  really stood out to me. I see that so much and the sheer
• 11:07
  overwhelming exhaustion that comes.
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  And, and it can be confusing because I've heard partners who
• 11:15
  are getting hours and hours of that communication where that
• 11:19
  might be new and it might seem like there's progress, but
• 11:24
  they're still not really conceptualizing what's being
• 11:29
  given. And again, like Lana, you were
• 11:31
  saying that timeline matters. It helps with that reality
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  collapse that you've experienced because like we're talking about
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  getting information, getting it dumped on while you are in a
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  trauma response is not going to be fully felt or even understood
• 11:52
  in the way that you need to to heal.
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  That's why a lot of my clients will say right after, well, we
• 11:59
  talked for five hours, I'm exhausted and can really not
• 12:05
  relate to me what was actually talked about.
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  But because there was talking, it's easy to be like, well, but
• 12:12
  that's different, right? So that's got to be good.
• 12:15
  I. See that a lot?
• 12:19
  Yeah, yeah. Just because we talked about it
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  doesn't mean I got a chance to separate myself from that.
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  I got a chance to separate myself from that.
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  Or even be fully accountable, right?
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  Or even be fully accountable in that conversation.
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  You might be saying some things, but really owning that
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  accountability is different with what you were saying before
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  like. Yeah.
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  When when a betraying partner sits there and gives that
• 12:50
  information, he's sitting in his own truths, but the.
• 12:54
  Accountability that feels a little different than what it
• 12:57
  has in the past. But here's the other thing that
• 12:59
  came up and wasn't surprised about, but it's good to talk
• 13:02
  about, which is for the person that did the betraying, they go,
• 13:09
  OK, I get it. It makes sense for a Full
• 13:11
  disclosure, but I really feel like in my gut, I don't know how
• 13:15
  to find all this information. I don't know how to get a life
• 13:19
  full of information. And it scares me that if I'm not
• 13:22
  perfect at it, then why do it? And I don't think I can be
• 13:26
  perfect at getting all that information out there.
• 13:29
  That's for the person who's not hiding actively.
• 13:32
  OK, That's literally they're like, I'm willing to give it.
• 13:34
  I don't know how to give it along.
• 13:36
  Did you want to say something? Did you know that your mom came
• 13:40
  to me a couple months and our recovery and she said, I hope,
• 13:45
  you know, Lucas terrified that he will forget something and he
• 13:51
  will remember later and that will be the straw that breaks
• 13:54
  the camel's bag. And she was so not involved.
• 13:59
  She really tried to respectfully give us space to work through
• 14:03
  it. So for her to bring that up was
• 14:06
  a really big deal that she was willing to say that.
• 14:12
  And so I remember hearing that and having equal parts like
• 14:16
  maybe trade parts, like I don't give a whatever, Like I don't
• 14:20
  give a flying ass about what if it's going to be hard for him?
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  I want the truth. I want it now and he needs to
• 14:26
  figure it out. And there was another part of me
• 14:30
  that so badly wanted all of the truth and wanted to create an
• 14:35
  environment that it was as safe enough as it could be for you to
• 14:39
  tell the truth. And then now with all of my
• 14:43
  training and understanding and emotionally being removed from
• 14:46
  that, I can look at that situation and go, there's so
• 14:51
  many parts activated in this. But when you have somebody who's
• 14:56
  acted out for 20 years, 30 years, and as part of their
• 15:02
  survival has shoved things down and has been in self denial,
• 15:08
  there is a really good likelihood that we are not going
• 15:11
  to get every single piece of that.
• 15:14
  And that's actually something that when I'm working with B
• 15:16
  trade partners is. I will say, look, we do this to
• 15:20
  the best of our ability and people are still human.
• 15:24
  There could be little things that come out, but there is a
• 15:27
  big difference between smaller details and big game changing
• 15:34
  pieces that are left out. It is our responsibility and the
• 15:38
  person who is going to be accountable to share everything
• 15:42
  that they know and to share all of those big pieces.
• 15:46
  And we've had this before. Six months later, they go into a
• 15:51
  Walmart and they see this random little toy of a Bunny rabbit.
• 15:58
  And then they remember something what might.
• 16:01
  Happen around Easter time. Thank you.
• 16:04
  Trigger, it can trigger a memory and we actually make space for
• 16:08
  that in our disclosures. We allow the couple to decide
• 16:11
  and determine for themselves will the betrayed partner
• 16:14
  especially how do you want to hear this information that might
• 16:18
  come up after. So we make space for that.
• 16:22
  It's a it's a thing. We've seen it happen and the the
• 16:25
  way that the brain works in healing, it is very common for
• 16:31
  that for that to happen. It's it's not always a on
• 16:36
  purpose withhold of information. It can very well be as brain is
• 16:40
  coming back online as prefrontal cortex is starting to grow.
• 16:43
  That can happen. But we make a plan for that how
• 16:48
  that's. We're not talking about huge
• 16:51
  brand new disclosures. Correct.
• 16:53
  Correct. No.
• 16:54
  I just want to be super clear with them.
• 16:57
  Yeah, but but the Full disclosure creates because I I
• 17:01
  feel like I know where the person that betrayings brain
• 17:03
  goes. The Full disclosure finally is a
• 17:06
  place for you that parts of you that have been hiding in
• 17:08
  secrecy. This is no longer if I share
• 17:11
  this will my relationship to be able to survive a way for you to
• 17:15
  be able to attend to that and spend time destructing that
• 17:21
  belief system that's in a that's in a more safe place.
• 17:25
  And it's, it's hard because I'll tell you the question for the
• 17:29
  person that comes to me and says, Luke, I can't remember
• 17:32
  everything. There's no way I'll be able to.
• 17:34
  There's two things that come to mind.
• 17:35
  And I know it's more nuanced than this one, which is OK,
• 17:40
  that's a stonewalling from IAI. Can't do it because there's just
• 17:44
  too much. I can't get everything out
• 17:45
  there. So I that's my reason.
• 17:46
  The other one is that person that goes, yeah, that's legit.
• 17:50
  And then I recognize there's a deeper level to that.
• 17:53
  If I go down this path of exploring everything, what the
• 17:56
  hell am I going to find, right? Not big things, but what level
• 18:01
  of awareness am I going to come into?
• 18:03
  And life's already hard. I can't have a be a, another
• 18:06
  level of hard. So there's empathy for there for
• 18:09
  that. And I, I think my biggest fear
• 18:13
  is, is really anybody that's done betraying, hearing this and
• 18:18
  just going back into their shell, like just hearing it and
• 18:22
  going, it's just too heavy. It's just too much Can't and
• 18:26
  they shut it off and they go back into that space, you know,
• 18:29
  and and I guess they. Do if they go back into that
• 18:32
  space? I'm curious what you most often
• 18:35
  see happen next. What's the consequence, so to
• 18:38
  speak, if that happens? Yeah, more of the same or of the
• 18:44
  same. And that's the point.
• 18:46
  At some point, at some point, more of the same won't be OK,
• 18:51
  right. More of the same will be too
• 18:54
  painful. And I hope that's now, you know,
• 18:58
  I hope that's now. And.
• 19:02
  Too painful, and then it motivates them to finally be
• 19:06
  willing change. Yeah.
• 19:08
  The pain of the acting out becomes greater than the pain of
• 19:13
  this solution. That's when we really see people
• 19:17
  step into change. Step in change.
• 19:19
  Yeah. And it's, it's scary.
• 19:22
  It's scary change not knowing it and I get more of the same and.
• 19:27
  It's something I've heard you talk about, Luke, a lot when
• 19:30
  you're working with these individuals is you talk about
• 19:33
  this concept of letting go of the outcome.
• 19:36
  Because as long as they're holding on and trained to
• 19:39
  control the outcome and trained to save my relationship, I'm
• 19:42
  trying to earn trust. I'm trying to fix this.
• 19:47
  And when they're really holding on to that outcome, it actually
• 19:51
  becomes a huge stumbling block for them to have this authentic
• 19:55
  healing in recovery. Can you talk about that piece?
• 19:58
  Yeah, there's just this overwhelming pressure and
• 20:04
  weights, and my brain is wired to seek for danger and to avoid
• 20:10
  pain. So it's very distracting to not
• 20:15
  stay in those patterns. So what you do is you give that.
• 20:21
  Because pain is good, pain is important.
• 20:24
  Pain is a, if you allow pain, it creates balance, it creates
• 20:28
  healthiness. If you give it enough space.
• 20:31
  So for the, the people that have done the betraying, they give
• 20:35
  that space and they sit with a long enough, then they start to
• 20:40
  say, which I start the conversation.
• 20:42
  I invite them to let go of the outcome.
• 20:46
  You can't take this same anymore so invite you to let go the
• 20:51
  outcome and not predict what's going to happen next and it's
• 20:55
  really cool to watch them do it. Pain is a teacher and I think
• 21:01
  it's a process to learn how to let go of the outcome.
• 21:05
  And there's a lot of fear that has to be made space for and
• 21:10
  work through. And that's not something that's
• 21:16
  couples work. It's not something that the
• 21:18
  person who's working their recovery comes to their B trade
• 21:21
  partner and processes through it.
• 21:25
  It's something that really they face their fear and they have
• 21:29
  their support person, their therapist, their coach, help
• 21:33
  hold that and help create that safety there that they can make
• 21:38
  that leap and take that really brave step forward and then
• 21:42
  create the safety for their partner.
• 21:45
  But I see too often that they want to go to their partner and
• 21:48
  have the partner create that safety for them and in essence,
• 21:52
  make them feel good. If I'm not going to leave you,
• 21:54
  you can say or do whatever you want.
• 21:55
  I'm not going to leave. OK, Now I'm brave enough to step
• 21:57
  into this. Instead you're saying, come over
• 22:02
  here, I'm going to work with you.
• 22:04
  We're going to learn how to figure out that you can be OK no
• 22:08
  matter what. Even if your relationship isn't
• 22:10
  OK, you can stand in your values.
• 22:13
  You can do what's right. No matter how they respond,
• 22:17
  whether they stay, they go, whether patterns change, they
• 22:21
  don't change. You are going to figure out how
• 22:24
  to make sure that you're OK so you can be a stable partner and
• 22:28
  a safe person for the person who's been hurt to come attached
• 22:32
  to. And so just really shifting them
• 22:37
  where they take that energy and then them doing their own
• 22:39
  individual work around this. Yeah, and it's interesting to me
• 22:46
  the the world, the belief system that's set up and place that is
• 22:50
  so destructive, which is control and keeping things going the
• 22:54
  same way as the way that I'll keep my partner.
• 22:56
  And that eventually is the thing that destroys the relationship
• 23:00
  and they don't get to keep their partner.
• 23:02
  But it's so interesting when they let go of the outcome now
• 23:06
  they finally get their partner when they technically make a a
• 23:10
  step that should dissolve the relation or make sense to solve
• 23:13
  the relationship. It's such an interest.
• 23:14
  Interesting paradox. Yeah, it's that let go to hold
• 23:18
  on. It's that leaning into the
• 23:20
  opposite of what you're really trying to get.
• 23:23
  Yeah, I see it all the time, just even wanting connection
• 23:26
  from people, but protector parts are so afraid of what's going to
• 23:31
  happen if you get that connection.
• 23:33
  So I think very similarly. I want my partner, I want to
• 23:37
  have a relationship, but if they.
• 23:39
  Really. See.
• 23:40
  Me and they really know the truth.
• 23:43
  Then I might not have what I really want, and that's the
• 23:46
  connection. But you have to lean in to the
• 23:48
  truth to ultimately get what you want, whether it's with your
• 23:53
  partner or someone else. That connection to yourself has
• 23:57
  to come first, and that's it what I hear you both saying.
• 24:03
  Well, I think hearing from you, Luke, of just some of what you
• 24:08
  see, what you experienced yourself and what you see of the
• 24:11
  individuals you work with is really helpful.
• 24:14
  The importance of having that supported help, the importance
• 24:18
  of the timeline and really exploring the fear of not
• 24:24
  remembering everything and the letting go of the outcome and
• 24:27
  leaning into that authentic self and those valued work and then
• 24:34
  taking that leap of faith into the unknown.
• 24:37
  So thank you for sharing your time with us.
• 24:40
  Thank you to all of our listeners for hanging out with
• 24:42
  us this week. And we will keep going next week
• 24:46
  with another layer to these full disclosures.
• 24:50
  As always, we appreciate your time and we look forward to
• 24:53
  seeing you all next week. Hey, thanks for joining us
• 24:58
  today. If this is something that you
• 24:59
  connected with, I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
• 25:03
  So what you can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com or
• 25:06
  check the show notes and there what we can do is set up a quick
• 25:09
  conversation meet. Thanks so much for listening to
• 25:12
  Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic self.