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Boxing Podcast: Ryan Garcia ENDS The Myth of Conor Benn · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: What's up, everybody?
0:01
SPEAKER_00: It's your good friend, Lukie, and I'm here, as always, with Dakota.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, how are you doing?
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic, my friend.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: Always good to be with you and always good to be here
0:12
SPEAKER_01: when there's some more interesting matchups,
0:17
SPEAKER_01: but it's always good to be here regardless because I'm with my guy, Lukie.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to start this off with my opening monologue, right?
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And it'll lead into maybe you being able to share some thoughts, full transparency.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Dakota mostly just watched the card,
0:32
SPEAKER_00: the highlights of the card because he's, you know, obvious things are expensive.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: But in this fight, what we saw with Ryan Garcia...
0:40
SPEAKER_00: It was billed to many people and many smart boxing people saw this as
0:43
SPEAKER_00: a competitive bout going in.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: I didn't see it and I'm not here to victory lap or say I'm smarter than anyone
0:49
SPEAKER_00: or anything like that.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: But let's talk about how it got there.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: I think the notion is Ryan Garcia has a level of influence from Instagram from an early point.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Dating back to like 2017 and such where he kind of moved up quickly
1:04
SPEAKER_00: because he was able to use social media platforms, get first round knockouts.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, at times he's looked extremely vulnerable in certain fights.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: So I think that there's this notion that when he fights,
1:17
SPEAKER_00: he has some technical flaws and he can show characteristics on the inside
1:22
SPEAKER_00: that typically fighters don't have.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Now, I think that with Conor Benn...
1:29
SPEAKER_00: We are not even sure if he's an elite level fighter.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: We know he's a good fighter, but we're not even sure if he's a domestic level fighter.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if he's a top 10 fighter.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: So going into this,
1:39
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it was more so a faith based argument that people had severe questions.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Questions about the heart and tenacity of Ryan Garcia.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: And they thought Ben being bigger and he's got that British thing where he's like,
1:52
SPEAKER_00: come on, mate,
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to stand with you and I'm going to take a punch like
1:55
SPEAKER_00: that real domestic level.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to take a punch, mate.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to take a bunch and I'm going to go right at you and I'm going to have
2:00
SPEAKER_00: that go go forward.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's going to just be enough where he's going to eat a shot.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: He's going to eat a left hook.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: And People were overlooking intelligence, which I think happens a lot nowadays.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: But like Ryan has, first off, If you're facing a Lamborghini, Ryan's got Lamborghini speed.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: You've either got to understand how to cut corners to get by the Lamborghini
2:25
SPEAKER_00: or you've got to match the Lamborghini speed by not having the intelligence
2:30
SPEAKER_00: to keep up with the Lamborghini or the same exact speed.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: It's always going to be a rough hang because you're just at a physical disadvantage.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: And going into this,
2:38
SPEAKER_00: I could not understand why smart people Thought Ben had either shown us or had
2:45
SPEAKER_00: the capacity coming out of the Regis Progray fight that he was going
2:49
SPEAKER_00: to be intellectual in his approach.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Because Ryan Garcia, as I've said all the week, and I'm not trying to peacock here.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: I really am not.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: He's difficult to hit with a right hand because when you double up and you hit him,
3:01
SPEAKER_00: yes, you can, like me and you talked many times this week, you can loop it, right?
3:05
SPEAKER_00: But he's waiting to sit on something.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: And sure, he exits out tall and stuff.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: But he bets on his speed.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: And Ben has not shown me the capacity to change codes.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by codes is to give you different punching patterns and
3:21
SPEAKER_00: to make you guess on things and to show feints.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: And the guys that, to me,
3:25
SPEAKER_00: give Ryan problems are guys that either start out moving backwards
3:29
SPEAKER_00: and make him initiate.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: There's southpaws, where he doesn't seem to be as comfortable with southpaws.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: Or there are guys that can feint him.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: I think it was Jason Velez early on in his career threw feints at him.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, whoa.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: He's missing on big shots, right?
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Ben's never shown that.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure Ben can beat a fighter like Uroso or like my guy Toker said.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: So I was very confused that people leading into this thought this was competitive.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: And to be perfectly honest...
3:58
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of more competitive than I thought.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: I thought Ben was going to get dropped in the first round and it was going to be bad.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: He got knocked down in the second round.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
4:06
SPEAKER_00: he just took clean punches from a kid who's very,
4:09
SPEAKER_00: very accurate and very fast and has large question marks.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Dakota, from my opening monologue, what do you think it was?
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Do you think people just kind of have this feeling that if you're able
4:19
SPEAKER_00: to press Ryan, he's going to break?
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is it about it that made people this fooled?
4:24
SPEAKER_01: I think...
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And for me, I agreed that it was kind of a mismatch.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: And you're right, Ben basically just walked forward and walked right into it.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
4:33
SPEAKER_01: There was no subtlety really to what he was doing to avoid or get around Ryan's speed.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: You basically alluded to this,
4:40
SPEAKER_01: but I would think the only reason that you could talk yourself into
4:45
SPEAKER_01: that Connor Ben had a chance in this fight is because Ryan has shown to be
4:49
SPEAKER_01: a little inconsistent and very unreliable as a person in spots.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: And that that may come into play and that Connor Bend is not extraordinary,
5:00
SPEAKER_01: but he's just good enough to beat a distracted Ryan Garcia,
5:06
SPEAKER_01: which does at times feel like that's always in the mix.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: But the reality is that,
5:12
SPEAKER_01: like you said,
5:13
SPEAKER_01: the talent and the experience discrepancy was so big that aside from that,
5:17
SPEAKER_01: aside from Ryan Garcia just basically having a meltdown during his camp,
5:23
SPEAKER_01: there was really no scenario that That felt like a winning scenario
5:28
SPEAKER_01: for Conor Benton.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: It's a strange fight, right?
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Because it's like,
5:33
SPEAKER_00: I really feel like people don't watch boxing as much anymore or they're from
5:37
SPEAKER_00: a different era because it's like,
5:39
SPEAKER_00: What did Conor Benn do to give you faith in his ability to fight Ryan Garcia from
5:45
SPEAKER_00: the Regis Progre fight?
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Regis was not the same fighter and he was not able to keep up with an older fighter
5:51
SPEAKER_00: who was tricky.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: And I guess what I want to ask you is,
5:57
SPEAKER_00: is there a perception that Ryan Garcia simply is just fast and that there's not
6:01
SPEAKER_00: a talent component to this to some degree with some people?
6:06
SPEAKER_01: I just think that there's a perception that he might not show up.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: And we have kind of seen that to some extent.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Not a lot, but that has been there, even if it's just in moments in fights that he wins.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: And maybe the size,
6:27
SPEAKER_01: maybe the fact that Conor Benn had fought 10 pounds up,
6:30
SPEAKER_01: maybe the fact that Ryan was a lightweight not even two years ago,
6:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, you could talk yourself, oh, that's a size thing if the kid's distracted.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: But again, it's all really kind of a reach.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's also for like people from a different era
6:46
SPEAKER_00: that like have maybe like old school, like you can't,
6:54
SPEAKER_00: you can't, we got to.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Can I be honest about something too, bro?
6:59
SPEAKER_01: It does kind of feel like there's going to be people that say
7:02
SPEAKER_01: the matchup is interesting because they don't,
7:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even,
7:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking about anybody specific,
7:11
SPEAKER_01: but they don't want to like poo-poo it,
7:14
SPEAKER_01: especially if they're in the media because they want to keep their access to it.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: And they've, you know, that's an entity that has shown they'll cut you right off.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that we walk a line where I think that we get access
7:25
SPEAKER_00: from pretty much everybody, but we also just tell you the truth.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is more so that Ryan isn't always the most likable guy
7:38
SPEAKER_00: and there's people that feel like...
7:41
SPEAKER_00: That was a wild little comment right there, bro.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: It was a wild.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: I have no clue what it said.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't know either, but hey.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: I hope it doesn't age bad.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: I hope that doesn't go to the Clips channel.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: No, I think somebody's on a journey, so safe travels.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, he's on a journey.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, he's on a journey being timed out in the chat too.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a perception that like Ryan's like soft to some old school guys
8:07
SPEAKER_00: and like a guy like Marvin Hagler.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Took big punches and would go.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And I think people wanted to believe Conor Benn had a little haggler in him because he talks it.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: And I truly believe also some of these these voices that we used to see in boxing
8:22
SPEAKER_00: that watched everything, I don't think they watch as many fights anymore.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: So I think that like guys get caught up in the storyline.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Conor Benn's a good talker.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: He says all the right things despite sort of a checkered past.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think people buy into, oh, my God, you know, he was depressed.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, what boxer leading into the fight is so honest that he was depressed, you know?
8:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, not to downplay that stuff.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: Most people are depressed, but there's a talent component here.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think the biggest thing to me was Chris Eubank and Conor Ben are living off
8:55
SPEAKER_00: of their dad's names.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And they really like Conor Ben has not fought someone in their prime that's elite.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: And there was this huge assumption that he would just go in there
9:05
SPEAKER_00: and his physicality would handle a guy in Ryan Garcia
9:09
SPEAKER_00: who has mastered counterpunching,
9:11
SPEAKER_00: who's very fast,
9:12
SPEAKER_00: and has developed a style from the amateurs where he catches you coming in.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And the strategy Connor was going to try to,
9:20
SPEAKER_00: to me, looked like was, Put the square peg in the circle.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: We're just going to slam it until it turns into a circle, brother.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: And we're just going to show if he's got heart.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And it's like that's a bad approach.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: And since the beginning of this fight, that's how I felt about this matchup.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: I think that was really well said.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: And as much as,
9:41
SPEAKER_01: you know,
9:42
SPEAKER_01: maybe there are flaws in some of what Ryan Garcia does,
9:46
SPEAKER_01: you have to have the skill and the IQ to exploit those things.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: You definitely can't do it.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Just come in kind of straightforward, high guard with one of the fastest punchers in boxing.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like he's going to look like a million bucks every time you walk to him.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: It's like the guys that have success with him are the guys that feign him.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Like Shakur would probably win 12 zip against him because he just knows how
10:08
SPEAKER_00: to offset his rhythm and how to make him guess.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Gervonta beat him because he took him for walks and had him guessing.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Southpaws are an issue for him.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: The next fight they're throwing out in the mix that could be is him and Teofimo Lopez.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Personally, like it's an interesting fight because Teofimo's inconsistencies.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: I think Tio has more stuff he can do.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think the perception is going to be that Ryan's going to be the favorite.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: And I just look at it and I think if Tio's on, Tio just has a much more diverse skill set.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's not going to be a popular opinion.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: I think Ryan would probably win that.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: I think that would also be a difference in talent.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: I think maybe there's true that if you're looking X's and O's,
10:53
SPEAKER_01: that there's more I would lean towards Ryan in that fight.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: But listen, they're both world champions and unification fights should be the goal in boxing.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: I also just think like Tio has a lot of embarrassing moments,
11:24
SPEAKER_00: but he has taken a path where we know what he is as a fighter.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: It's just fight in to fight out.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: He's not consistent.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like against Ryan,
11:37
SPEAKER_00: my sentiment leaving this fight was it's hard to feel like it feels like Ryan's
11:41
SPEAKER_00: in position to be one of the biggest names in boxing and one of
11:44
SPEAKER_00: the most accomplished, but he doesn't quite pass the eye test with me.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: There's still moments of vulnerability that just don't feel like the top guys.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, like in a way doesn't look like Ryan Garcia in moments in fights.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, it's hard to feel comfortable with him going on a sustained run, I feel.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Oscar had those moments too, though.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: You know,
12:07
SPEAKER_01: and I don't think,
12:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
12:09
SPEAKER_01: when it's all said and done,
12:10
SPEAKER_01: I have a pretty strong suspicion that Ryan Garcia is going
12:14
SPEAKER_01: to have another weird loss or two.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: But I think it's going to be his like it factor that you're just going to have to be
12:25
SPEAKER_01: so good to get past that.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: And I also think that he's the kind of guy who maybe isn't going to dwell on a loss.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: I think he has a real genuine sense of confidence.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: But I also think like,
12:39
SPEAKER_01: you know,
12:40
SPEAKER_01: the kid that in that lead up to the Haney fight,
12:42
SPEAKER_01: like that kid could derail any career.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think maybe that's also part of what makes him exciting.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: I think also what I'm learning about this version of Ryan is he kind of talks trash
12:54
SPEAKER_00: to get you going to counterpunch you like the trash talk and
12:58
SPEAKER_00: the quote unquote craziness.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a tactical game plan thing a little bit like so people go,
13:04
SPEAKER_00: oh, he's such a wild card.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: He says crazy stuff.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: I think he's trying to walk you into a left hook or a right hand.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: He's trying to rile you up.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: So you're trying to punish him.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's his that's part of the strategy.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this was the perfect guy to do it.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Because I think,
13:19
SPEAKER_01: like you said,
13:20
SPEAKER_01: he has that regional fighter mentality of like,
13:22
SPEAKER_01: come on, I'll take one, I'll take your best shot.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: And that just doesn't work at the elite level.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think it shows very clearly that Conor Bend is just not an elite level fighter.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: And we knew that.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: It just is what it is.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: It's not an indictment of who he is as a person.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: It's just he's not...
13:39
SPEAKER_00: He didn't get those victories to be at this place.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: And the fight played out the way I thought,
13:44
SPEAKER_00: where it was just two guys at two different skill levels.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: And unless Conor Benn fights guys that are closer to his skill level,
13:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't see him winning any fight against a high-profile name
13:55
SPEAKER_00: who has accomplished wins.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Be tough.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: So in the co-feature, we had my guy, Jai Apatai, stops Noel McKillian.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Very, very fun fight from Jai Apatai, who...
14:09
SPEAKER_00: You have to really appreciate him for the fact that he's not a corny boy.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Even though you could say what you want about Simon with Zufa,
14:17
SPEAKER_00: true fighter spirit,
14:19
SPEAKER_00: in essence,
14:20
SPEAKER_00: and it's like this fight,
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Kind of showed a lot of what he does,
14:24
SPEAKER_00: the fast hand speed, angles, turning, catching clean.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: But I think the biggest thing that stood out to me was Appetite was rocked,
14:32
SPEAKER_00: I believe, in the seventh round by right hand.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: How does he respond?
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm going to get a stoppage.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: And during the stoppage, his hand was held and he continues to punch.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: And McKillian ends up on the ropes and the referee just ends up stopping it going,
14:45
SPEAKER_00: nah, man, we're not letting you take anymore.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: After the fight, obviously David Benavidez.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: Shout out to Zufa Boxing Security.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: They had a real night this past weekend.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: They almost didn't let Crawford in at the weigh-in or one media event.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Benavidez had to wait forever to get into the ring.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: They were really checking his ID like he was 20, trying to go into the nightclub.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: And Teofimo also.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: But Benavidez and Apataya, that was like man energy when they got in the ring.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: I believe Benavidez, something to the effect, quote said, I like this guy.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: He likes war.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: And Apataya just looks at him straight up and smiles and goes, let's go.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: And they're like both excited to put on a brutal fight.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Apataya to me reminds me of a guy that would fight Jack Dempsey.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: He reminds me of like a guy from like the 30s or 40s.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: He reminds me of almost like a lumberjack or a bricklayer,
15:42
SPEAKER_00: like a real tough man who's not in it for like the quote unquote fame.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: He's in it for respect and glory.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure he beats Benavidez,
15:52
SPEAKER_00: but I absolutely love the fact that he's not backing down
15:56
SPEAKER_00: and both guys are interested in a potential fight.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: What of anything did you see of this fight?
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, before we get into that, do you think that's a fight that could actually happen?
16:09
SPEAKER_00: I sure hope so.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: And since they talked on the broadcast,
16:13
SPEAKER_00: we're going to act as though it could happen because it was on television.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: In this current boxing landscape, let's be honest to our listeners, nobody knows anything.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: This is unlike anything we've ever seen in our life.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Things are changing and the game is changing each and every day.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: So we have no idea what is left, right, up and down.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: So we have to go under the assumption that this fight could be made.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: But we have no idea if it could be.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: I also wanted to add Noel McKillian reminded me of one of your guys,
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Australian fighter, Sam Solomon.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Fights like an octopus.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: He did the thing in the Appetia fight where I started to get scared
16:54
SPEAKER_00: that Appetia was going to gas out because he kind of hung around on the inside
16:59
SPEAKER_00: and he could take breaks on the inside,
17:01
SPEAKER_00: parrying punches, and then work at his own pace.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: And it felt like it was like he was jogging.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Like he could just stay at that pace for the...
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Remainder of the fight.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: But those are my thoughts.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
17:14
SPEAKER_01: it was another one where it was,
17:17
SPEAKER_01: at least from the highlights that I saw, it was basically what I expected.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Jazz got good fast hands.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: We knew that.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: He's a fantastic offensive fighter.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: He's also just hittable enough
17:27
SPEAKER_01: that I feel like David Benavidez will probably knock him out at some point.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: But it's a fight that I'd love to see.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: And it's clearly the best two in the cruiserweight division.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: What do you think of Jai at this point?
17:42
SPEAKER_01: I just, I can't really tell, bro.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, I can't say that I've seen him in a fight.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: I feel like he has any kind of chance of losing outside of that first fight
17:53
SPEAKER_01: with Myris Bredis because by the time the rematch came around,
17:57
SPEAKER_01: he was so much younger.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't think Bredis had been active.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: So I just haven't seen him have to get in with that kind of resistance.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's just layers to him that I haven't had to see.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Everything I've seen, I like.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
18:15
SPEAKER_01: But I just don't know that I know everything about him.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the thing is, right?
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Apataya has the ability to really trouble Benavidez,
18:24
SPEAKER_00: I think, because it's like he has the legs to go with his hand speed.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: So there's a world where I think he could move and punch.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: And that's something that Benavidez in the past,
18:33
SPEAKER_00: Ronald Graville and some other fighters,
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Gavazdik kind of gave him issues at times with that.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Like the guys that can move but not excessively move.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: To me, the big thing is Appetite sometimes fades in that second half.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: And with Big David, you never see the punch volume drop.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, to me, it's like, I
18:55
SPEAKER_00: think they're going to show their hand fight week.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: Because if you hear both guys talking about it, it's going to be a war.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: You got to favor Benavidez because when it's like Benavidez is like built for war
19:06
SPEAKER_00: and Apataya like I I think he's like a Hall of Fame level fighter,
19:10
SPEAKER_00: but you don't want him like embracing like I'm going to go to war with somebody
19:14
SPEAKER_00: because it feels like his path to victory is he probably has
19:17
SPEAKER_00: a little bit more dimensions.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's like if you're going to be like, let's find out who's tougher.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: It feels like right now Benavidez wins the tough man fights.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, his best hope is to be better, not to try to outlast somebody like Benavidez.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know that he's better either.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: That's going to be the problem.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: I got to do some research, but is Jai an Olympian?
19:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure he is.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: But I'm also,
19:53
SPEAKER_01: you know, again,
19:53
SPEAKER_01: if Benavidez is going to stay at cruiserweight,
19:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't really know who there is for him that's like a genuinely interesting fight
20:01
SPEAKER_01: for a superstar outside of this guy.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: So he was, he was a 2012 Olympian, Jaya Pattaya.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: So I think that what makes the fight interesting to me is you have a guy with
20:10
SPEAKER_00: an Olympic background and I wouldn't say he has as fast a hands as David Benavidez,
20:15
SPEAKER_00: but I'd say he can almost match him for like a one shot at a time.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: He's not a combination puncher,
20:21
SPEAKER_00: but the interesting thing is it would be the first kind
20:24
SPEAKER_00: of mover puncher he would have faced since Alexander Gavazdik.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: And Gavazdik had some success in that second half of the fight.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: I think to me it's like a fight that actually gets me very,
20:37
SPEAKER_00: very excited right now in boxing where not a lot of fights get me excited
20:41
SPEAKER_00: because it's two kind of classy professionals who don't really do
20:44
SPEAKER_00: the Instagram stuff.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: They get ready to really bring a hard, grueling fight.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think no matter how cynical anyone is, they would want to watch that fight.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Everyone would be curious how that fight looks.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, next topic is my guy.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: I was hoping he'd be in the chat today.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: The Mozzarella fella.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Don't you like that?
21:07
SPEAKER_00: The one on top.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Hell of a nickname.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Hell of a nickname.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, I made it.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: That's my, the Mozzarella fella.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Demazian Van Hooten.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: I think that's his name.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: He joins our chat.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: He was in the chat last week, I think.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Demazian Van Howder.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: They call him Mozzie.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: I call him the Mozzarella fella.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, like the rapper, one up top.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: And he gave Rafael, I can't say his name, the one up top treatment.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Now this fight for anybody that doesn't know,
21:37
SPEAKER_00: my guy Mazzy tunes into the podcast from time to time and he's in our chat.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, he leaves comments and stuff and he's our guy.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: We support him because, you know, shoot, he's jumping in our chat.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we love the mozzarella fella.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: But Raphael,
21:56
SPEAKER_00: who'd been knocked out by Stefan Shaw and Arsene Beck-Machmoudov and whatever,
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Florida fighter.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Wild entrance.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my girl Heidi Andral did a segment on him.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: He decided to stay on one knee and wait while an emotional song played.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: And it took about five or six minutes for him to walk to the ring.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Even Andre Ward commented this was like a main event walkout.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And his ring walkout lasted longer than the fight itself.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: So that's never a great look.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Mozzie was just too fast, too coordinated.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: I loved seeing a guy who's young show that youthful exuberance to get off and punch
22:37
SPEAKER_00: and look young while punching,
22:39
SPEAKER_00: if you get what I'm saying, uses youth to his advantage, etc.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed that.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: The moment that most people will see is there was an exchange
22:48
SPEAKER_00: and it looked like Raphael was trying to almost dislocate or move his shoulder.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: He had his arm and he's like pulling it.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Mozzie goes to the ground, gets up and proceeds to brutally knock him out with two right hands.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: He's out and then he gave him one for good measure, like a go down.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: It was a highlight reel performance after,
23:08
SPEAKER_00: to be honest with you, a lot of lackluster boxing before this.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Not bad boxing,
23:12
SPEAKER_00: but a lot of boxing that kind of looked like squiggly lines in TV on
23:16
SPEAKER_00: the old antenna televisions where it all blended together.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And this was a breath of fresh air that really brought us into the final stretch of the card.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Lukie, this is a question I have just because...
23:31
SPEAKER_01: I didn't see the card, and I feel like that's the best purpose I can have this week.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: But was there any matchups on here that you genuinely felt like were 50-50 going in?
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there were.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: The next fight, right?
23:45
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about the next fight.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Andres Cortez, Mark Maxio.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: I thought that was a truly 50-50,
23:51
SPEAKER_00: but we learned Cortez's ability to fight on the inside in this fight.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Maxile doesn't really have an answer for potentially bigger fighters that fight on the inside.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: He just looked a little confused.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: He looked a little reluctant.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: He looked a little too willing to go to one knee.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: That was like his answer was to go down.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: There were a bunch of knockdowns called that were taken back by replay.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: But it was like Mark was like way too comfortable just going to a knee on the inside.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: He looked frustrated and angry that shots were potentially going behind the back of the head.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: He just looked like he lost his focus really early on.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: And Andres Cortez pulled ahead on that.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: I felt like Jose Ramirez versus Alexis Rocha,
24:30
SPEAKER_00: which conspiracy lukie feels like that fight was the second fight on the night.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Because that's a Golden Boy fight and it was probably put on very early as
24:38
SPEAKER_00: a statement that it's not part of Zufa Boxing.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: That's my feeling because you have a former world champion taking on a contender
24:44
SPEAKER_00: and it's not a second fight of the night type bout.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that was put on.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: You had Sean Garcia and then you had that fight.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: I feel like the two fights that were obligated were probably put on and then
24:54
SPEAKER_00: the rest were Zufa Boxing after.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: I felt like Jose Ramirez versus Alexis Rocha was a 50-50 fight.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: I felt like it was a draw.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Rocha won the fight.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to think about where Ramirez potentially goes from here.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: He has three straight losses dating back to 2024.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Rocha didn't look outstanding, got cut in the fight from a head clash.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Rocha is one of these tough guys where it's like,
25:19
SPEAKER_00: He's really good,
25:20
SPEAKER_00: but he doesn't really quite show that highlight package stuff
25:24
SPEAKER_00: where you'd feel comfortable if he gets in the ring with King Rai.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, could he last rounds with him?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like he's really good at things, but you wonder when he goes to that next level.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: And it's like when he's gone to somewhat the next level,
25:38
SPEAKER_00: and I'll say somewhat the next level because Giovanni Santillian...
25:42
SPEAKER_00: And Rashidi Ellis had been his kind of big step ups.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: He's lost those fights.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: And those guys didn't even go on to accomplish the next level.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: So you just wonder how he's going to do.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: So those were the two that stood out to me as competitive fights.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: What did you make of like Delahoya's lack of presence at the fight,
26:01
SPEAKER_01: having been Ryan Garcia's longtime promoter,
26:04
SPEAKER_01: the other Golden Boy fight kind of being early in the card?
26:08
SPEAKER_01: How do you interpret the entirety of that?
26:12
SPEAKER_01: As it relates to the event because the mission statement
26:15
SPEAKER_01: of Zufo was always we're going to put everybody out of business and now they've sort
26:19
SPEAKER_01: of liberalized and are going to just like allow a fighter from another promoter on
26:23
SPEAKER_01: the card and yeah we'll allow those stupid belts you have.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: But how do you interpret how these things are playing out?
26:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what we're going to get over the coming weeks.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure De La Hoya is going to do some form of an interview at some point and talk about it.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure reporters are going to get leaked information about what happened.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: But I mean...
26:47
SPEAKER_00: What's not said says a lot, right?
26:50
SPEAKER_00: The empty space says something.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: And the fact that we've never seen De La Hoya not at a Ryan Garcia fight
26:55
SPEAKER_00: that was high profile, it definitely is like, it makes me wonder what happened.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: It's one of those things where I don't have the answers, but I have a lot of questions.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: So I'm definitely going to be watching for the future for various different things,
27:11
SPEAKER_00: one of which if fighters who aren't signed to Zufa, do their promoters show up?
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Is this strictly a De La Hoya thing or is this a trend?
27:19
SPEAKER_00: And also like just moving forward, how like things play out.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And are they in fact co-promoting or are they poaching?
27:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, legally they have to co-promote.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think there's any way that you could poach a fighter because you have
27:38
SPEAKER_00: to legally do certain things.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I don't think that's even possible.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even talking about like an immediate poach,
27:51
SPEAKER_01: but if the other,
27:52
SPEAKER_01: if whoever,
27:54
SPEAKER_01: if it's somebody that's a co-promoter is not necessarily welcome to the event,
27:58
SPEAKER_01: is the statement that When they're done with you, they're ours.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a storyline that I would watch, right?
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Because that could be a storyline.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: I also think at times we've had other promoters in the past that didn't play well
28:13
SPEAKER_00: with other promoters and co-promotions would be weird or strange.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just something to follow because Zufa is so new
28:21
SPEAKER_00: and it feels like Zufa wants to get stars.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And it felt like there was a pretty big investment in Ryan Garcia and there's
28:27
SPEAKER_00: an excitement around Ryan Garcia.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: So it'd be curious to see Ryan Garcia probably is targeting
28:32
SPEAKER_00: a Cinco de Mayo date next year, right?
28:35
SPEAKER_00: That probably is what he's going for.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: It's probably against Teofimo Lopez.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Who is the lead promoter of that fight?
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Because Teofimo is signed to DAZN directly.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Ryan's still signed to Golden Boy.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's a fight that isn't involving Zufa at all.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: So that's an interesting thing to watch is if that fight is next,
28:57
SPEAKER_00: who's going to be involved in making that fight?
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Of the fights I mentioned, did any else stand out to you?
29:08
SPEAKER_01: I think the one that I would have been the most interested in is Ramirez and Rocha.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm honestly surprised it was that close,
29:16
SPEAKER_01: but that's kind of a classic Alexis Rocha where he is really good,
29:22
SPEAKER_01: but in moments like this where if he was a bona fide contender,
29:25
SPEAKER_01: he would have separated against an older champion, and it doesn't sound like he did.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: He just has trouble getting to that next level.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: It's like he's really,
29:33
SPEAKER_00: really good and he's like able to win,
29:35
SPEAKER_00: but he like wins it just very, very close and looks vulnerable at times.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's always been like that.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now we're moving over to this week.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: I guess I can touch on real quickly Pro Box TV out of card.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Abasa Baral defeated Giovon Santillian.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: 154-pound bout between contenders.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: Decent matchup.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Luis Alberto Lopez gets back into the win circle, stops.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Daniel Lugo,
30:07
SPEAKER_00: my good friend,
30:08
SPEAKER_00: your good friend,
30:09
SPEAKER_00: Joseph Perez, was one of the trainers in the corner of Venato Lopez.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: People are crediting Joseph Perez for adding new dimensions to Venato Lopez.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: It might sound basic, but things like moving his head.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And just trying to like, you know, create longevity to his career.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: And then Dominic Valle picks up a win over Francois Scarborough Jr.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: in a battle of undefeated prospects.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: A very good card that might go under the radar because Pro Box is now $5.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: And I figured out why it's a little bit more for you.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: I think that's an Apple thing.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: So if you go through Apple, Apple puts extra money to it.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: But ProBox is ticking along.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: They're putting on these good fights, these good shows.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: And for those that are curious that might have missed those results, those are your results.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Beautifully said, brother.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: OK, now let's go into this week.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious to get your thoughts on this one is we have my guy Pitbull Cruz
31:05
SPEAKER_00: and he is returning against Nestor Bravo.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: And I'm fairly familiar with Nestor Bravo, but I highly doubt you're familiar with Nestor Bravo.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: Nestor Bravo is someone that when I at the turn of the decade,
31:17
SPEAKER_00: I saw he was kind of like a prospect that was being looked at and he'd end up
31:21
SPEAKER_00: on these Florida cards, etc.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: And he's You know, he's had a weird two fights.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: We're going to start with Bravo because obviously people know Pitbull and
31:30
SPEAKER_00: then I'll shut up and then you can get to going with where you go.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Nestor Bravo is a
31:35
SPEAKER_00: power puncher and not unlike Conor Benn.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Actually, he hits harder than Conor Benn and he might beat Conor Benn for all we know.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, Bravo is about the level of a Conor Benn, to be honest with you.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really random side question.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: I would love to know your answer to this though.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Connor Ben versus Ted Cheeseman.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: Who are you going?
31:59
SPEAKER_00: What weight?
32:01
SPEAKER_01: 154.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: I think Ben wins it by being younger,
32:06
SPEAKER_00: but it's just like,
32:07
SPEAKER_00: it's like Pierce O'Leary,
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Mark Chamberlain,
32:10
SPEAKER_00: where it's just two guys punching each other and people are like,
32:12
SPEAKER_00: it's close though, right?
32:14
SPEAKER_01: It's a close fight.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: It took
32:16
SPEAKER_01: you a second to pick somebody.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like 96-94,
32:20
SPEAKER_00: and people are talking about the heart and courage of both men to lay it on
32:23
SPEAKER_00: the line tonight.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so let's see.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Bravo beats Ben.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: That's what our chat said.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I also want to answer some of these questions.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: That was a great fight.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Jai will not beat Benavidez.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: That's SwiftCashThor.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for jumping in, SwiftCashThor.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: We haven't seen you before.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: If you have, I haven't seen you lately.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: He's slow for David.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: I knew Ryan would KO Ben and anyone that thought he wasn't is very delusional.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Manky Crazy said he's an Olympian and speaking of Jayapathia from a weak region
32:55
SPEAKER_00: and Bravo beats Ben.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: So the book on Bravo is this.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: He's a big puncher and he dropped your boy, the Wasp, into Johnny.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And then that was the biggest curse in that fight.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: So he drops him and then he gets outboxed by him and loses a split decision.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: He bounces back earlier this year, stopping Pedro Campo.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: And he's been on the cusp of something.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: He's beating kind of these fringe gatekeepers contenders, but he hasn't elevated.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And the question went bravo is he can punch,
33:30
SPEAKER_00: but does he have the fight intellect to perform at the highest level?
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, the interesting thing about Isak Pitbull Cruz is,
33:40
SPEAKER_00: first off,
33:40
SPEAKER_00: possibly undersized at the weight class, which we all talk about at times.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Going into his fifth year of a bunch of grueling fights,
33:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't think people talk about that enough.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like five years of every fight's a really, really physically taxing hard fight.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: And basically his strategy is to come forward and fight just toe to toe,
34:00
SPEAKER_00: which is what Bravo probably wants you to do.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: So...
34:05
SPEAKER_00: I think we're all more familiar with Pitbull Cruz.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: I think he also is probably the more talented fighter,
34:11
SPEAKER_00: but this is kind of a high risk fight in a sneaky way for Pitbull because he's going
34:17
SPEAKER_00: in with a puncher that I think most people are just expecting him to run through
34:21
SPEAKER_00: and face no opposition.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: And I think that this could be a little bit better than most people are thinking.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, and if people are worried about Bravo's boxing intellect,
34:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that Pitbull's going to be the guy to test that part of his game.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: He's going to test his physicality,
34:39
SPEAKER_01: his toughness,
34:40
SPEAKER_01: maybe even his intelligence in an inside fight,
34:42
SPEAKER_01: but he's not going to push the boundaries of his IQ with his style either.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think that that's the scary part of this matchup is
34:50
SPEAKER_00: the questions we want answered about Bravo.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: Will probably not be answered in this fight other than how tough he is,
34:57
SPEAKER_00: how strong he is, and how physical he is.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: And those are the things that I think he gets glowing remarks on.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: I think the thing that he gets tricked in is he has a little Arthur Abraham in him
35:08
SPEAKER_00: where he thinks he's doing really good and he finds out he threw four punches in
35:12
SPEAKER_00: the round because he's trying to cut the ring off and he feels like
35:15
SPEAKER_00: because he's going forward and the other guy's moving,
35:18
SPEAKER_00: he can get into a habit of following a guy Whereas I don't think Pitbull Cruz is
35:22
SPEAKER_00: that guy.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to frame a question for you, Dakota.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Is Pitbull Cruz still the same guy we fell in love with?
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Now, remember, he knocked out Raleigh Romero.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Then he had that competitive fight with Jose Valenzuela,
35:36
SPEAKER_00: where Valenzuela won a close and competitive decision.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Kind of a star-making performance, if we're being honest.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Followed that up with a weird fight of the year type fight with Angel Fierro.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: We're going to throw out the Omar Salicito fight
35:50
SPEAKER_00: because Fierro was pulled fight week and it was just a late replacement fight.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: But then a draw with Lamont Roach Jr.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Is there another way of framing this saying, hey,
35:59
SPEAKER_00: is Pitbull Cruz starting to like hit an apex and possibly coming down from
36:04
SPEAKER_00: a really good Mexican boxing run?
36:08
SPEAKER_01: It is possible because of all the hard fights,
36:10
SPEAKER_01: but I think the Roach fight is a good performance because of what
36:14
SPEAKER_01: a smart fighter Roach is.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: And I also think it's,
36:17
SPEAKER_01: I look at more, you know, a part of his success is physicality and punching power.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Not that he was knocking every single guy out, but his power is a piece of it.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think those advantages are less at 140.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that,
36:35
SPEAKER_01: you know, There are times where he'd hit a guy and that would make him stay still.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's not happening as much in the Ryo fight.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know,
36:43
SPEAKER_01: I just think that in general,
36:45
SPEAKER_01: his ability to be a domineering,
36:49
SPEAKER_01: you know, physical presence is not quite the same at 140.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll tell you this,
36:56
SPEAKER_00: and I got to double check the weight class for this fight because is it happening
37:01
SPEAKER_00: at 140?
37:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would assume so.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a super light on Boxer.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Because like the big thing about Nestor Bravo is to me, he's a big hook with you guy.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: He loves to throw a left hook with you.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: He knocked out Pedro Campo cold with a left hook off the ropes.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: And Bravo at times can put himself on the ropes to punch with you.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a pretty good chance that we're messing around and going to get
37:33
SPEAKER_00: a pretty good action fight here.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like, I mean,
37:37
SPEAKER_01: you're always going to get that with Pitbull Cruz,
37:39
SPEAKER_01: especially if you have anybody that resembles a willing participant.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: You're going to love this, too.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: It looks like the WBC interim junior lightweight title is on the line.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're a big title guy, so I know you're excited about that.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: I love a good interim title, too, more than anything, and a global title.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Who's the outright WBC champion in this division?
38:05
SPEAKER_01: I want to say it's Zepeda, but I'd really kind of be pulling that out of my ass.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: Because facts matter.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: It's actually Bravo.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: I believe Bravo's promoter.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: The ex-champion used to hold the WBC title.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: It is Dalton Smith who beat Sabril Matisse and Nestor Bravo fought
38:30
SPEAKER_00: on Sabril Matisse's undercard in the Barclays Center in January.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: So that is the fight.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: It's just,
38:38
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a kind of a strange fight too in the sense that is this
38:42
SPEAKER_00: the first PBC fight on DAZN that isn't behind a paywall?
38:47
SPEAKER_00: That's just a straight up, this is what you get with your subscription, this new era of PBC.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's because I remember the PBC with the Fox deal or the original kind
38:59
SPEAKER_00: of version of PBC that was like right around
39:02
SPEAKER_00: when Floyd Mayweather fought Manny Pacquiao and it was on every channel.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: But
39:09
SPEAKER_00: The storytelling component,
39:11
SPEAKER_00: you know,
39:11
SPEAKER_00: it just feels like week to week we're not getting stories
39:14
SPEAKER_00: and we're not getting told stories.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: And this is one I had to do research on to say, man, this is a potentially good fight.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: But I have a feeling this is going to be like,
39:23
SPEAKER_00: because as I said,
39:23
SPEAKER_00: like, I think there's about 20 of us that really watch the fights out there.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: And then there's just a bunch of guys that are like,
39:29
SPEAKER_00: you know, a little bit older that go off Pitbull's fighting.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: He's fighting some guy I've never heard of probably going to win.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: And then like if they're if it's competitive, it's like, oh, man, didn't see that coming.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And I also think part of that is that there's a lack of storytelling.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: So I remember PBC,
39:46
SPEAKER_00: especially during the Fox deal,
39:48
SPEAKER_00: you had a lot of shoulder programming to tell stories about the fighters
39:51
SPEAKER_00: and all types of stuff.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: And this fight just snuck up on me, man.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea this fight was coming up.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you might not know it,
39:59
SPEAKER_01: but they have the best middleweight in the world fighting on the fucking undercard.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what we're going to get to next now is friend of the program,
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Jesus Ramos is on the undercard.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: And that is something I actually wrote for Fights ATW.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to turn that story in tomorrow.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: Also mentioned fighting for the first time in 2026.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that just seems crazy.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Ramos Jr.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: is a story of just being One of the best fighters in the world
40:27
SPEAKER_00: and just being criminally inactive.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think he's ever gotten to headline a main event since the Fox deal.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: He headlined a couple of cards during the PBC and Fox era.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: And then once the Fox deal went away,
40:41
SPEAKER_00: It really feels like there haven't been opportunities for him to go to
40:43
SPEAKER_00: the main event.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: He's just been kind of stuck in co-features, etc.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: He's taken on,
40:49
SPEAKER_00: let me get this guy's name,
40:51
SPEAKER_00: Miriam Nurtasolanov, said it absolutely perfect, managed by Igas Klimas.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: He is a fighter who has been ranked for a very long time in these divisions
41:04
SPEAKER_00: and finally getting an opportunity of sorts.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: It feels like when you run into an undefeated guy who's been ranked highly
41:12
SPEAKER_00: in divisions and taking his time to take a big fight,
41:16
SPEAKER_00: there's something about that fighter that people know.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
41:19
SPEAKER_00: There's certain vulnerabilities.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: But in doing my research, because I saw him on some random stream way back when.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: He hasn't fought in like three years, like over three years.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: Let me fact check this one.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure it's been since 2023.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: He's been extremely inactive.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: November 17th, 2020.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: So he's coming off a three-year layoff.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: So that doesn't help this fight, right?
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Is you got arguably the best middleweight.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: To me, it's like you can pick your guys.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: It's like Jesus Ramos, Amari Jones, and Aaron McKenna look really, really stellar.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: And then you got Yoleni Hernandez who has to prove it to us because we're kind
42:02
SPEAKER_00: of like, eh, you kind of just do one thing.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And we're not quite sure that.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of got a little Connor Ben in him.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: I'll give you a thing.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: If you really like Connor Ben to beat Ryan Garcia,
42:12
SPEAKER_00: I bet Yoleni Hernandez is your favorite middleweight.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: That's a Lukie hot take.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: He's going to knock everybody out for sure.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see a lot.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe Deontay Wilder is the greatest heavyweight of all time.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: Errol Spence,
42:27
SPEAKER_00: during his run,
42:28
SPEAKER_00: there's no way anyone could beat him because he just comes forward
42:30
SPEAKER_00: and he's punching guys hard.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: The best.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now wait until someone,
42:38
SPEAKER_00: like when we hypothetically joke about this,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: that someone actually has these opinions and hates us.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: He's like, I hate you.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: There's going to be a ton of people.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: There's going to be a ton of guys with that opinion.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's going to be sick.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: That's why it's funny.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can't wait for that.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't really understand how this guy is going to beat Ramos because Ramos
42:59
SPEAKER_00: to me is extremely talented.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: And I should break down why he's so talented to me.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: He reminds me of a lot of different fighters.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: I think the one that stands out is a more versatile Jesse Vargas.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: He has an ability to fight on the inside, outside.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: He has physicality.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Really mature for his age.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: I feel like he's the forgotten Xander.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: He turned pro about it Xander's age,
43:26
SPEAKER_00: but because he looked bigger and more mature for his age,
43:29
SPEAKER_00: he never got the credit or maybe promoter or whatever.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: And...
43:35
SPEAKER_00: I just I really think he's a top guy that like for some reason people poo poo
43:40
SPEAKER_00: and they're like, oh, he's boring or he's this.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's like he's very, very talented and he has a style that could dominate for 10 years.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, he kind of has always reminded me of Jesse Bam Rodriguez.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think what he's lacking is the exciting dance partner to prove that.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Chat says,
44:01
SPEAKER_00: Bravo is a bit of a late-notice opponent,
44:03
SPEAKER_00: so I didn't even know that there was another option for Pitbull.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: So interesting to know that.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: It's 140 or catchweight because it's for the interim.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's the Jesus Ramos undercard.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: I think he just needs the opportunities.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: I will fill out now.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: I will read to you the rest of this undercard, and then we'll be done for this week.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: What a week.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: He's from Milwaukee, super middleweight.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of from the same school of the Diego Pacheco,
44:34
SPEAKER_00: really, really tall guy at that weight class.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: We got Lazaro Lorenza.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: He's an undefeated guy.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: I believe he beat Luis Cuba Aries at one point.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: We got the Filipino Olympian Umar Marcial,
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Marco Verde, the Mexican Olympian, and Robert Guerrero Jr. on the undercard.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: What I like seeing is a lot of talented players.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: I think in terms of like PVC launching,
45:36
SPEAKER_01: And PBC at one time being sort of the bell of the ball
45:39
SPEAKER_01: of boxing had Mayweather was doing Showtime Boxing and the Fox deal and they were
45:45
SPEAKER_01: the big shit.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: In terms of their launch as one of multiple promoters that are competitors on
45:52
SPEAKER_01: the zone,
45:53
SPEAKER_01: it's not quite like the fireball you'd expect,
45:57
SPEAKER_01: but I'm happy that Jesus is being featured in that.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think he deserves it.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: And I want to see him be more active.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: And so for me, that's, I think, a sign that they value him as well.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: So I guess the final thing I'll bring up, right?
46:17
SPEAKER_00: Is how much fear do you think the industry has of Zufa boxing?
46:22
SPEAKER_00: Because that was one thing I watched was production was fairly clean.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: There's some cringe on this Zufa boxing.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: They do a lot of yelling, bro.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: They do a lot of fucking yelling.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of yelling.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: My guy Al Bernstein didn't like they were calling Jai Apataya Jai, but Macaulian was Macaulian.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: They're going first name and last name.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: There's not a style guide they appear to go by.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: Love the Kalshi.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm a big free speech guy, so I love the Kalshi in the thing.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: It's a tough hang, Bob.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: It just is.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Like obviously Ryan Garcia,
47:05
SPEAKER_00: Conor Benn in hindsight and for us going in wasn't an elite world class matchup.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: You got one guy who's kind of cosplaying as a world class guy who plays
47:15
SPEAKER_00: the part really well and tugs on the heartstrings of people that want
47:17
SPEAKER_00: to see Ryan lose and then all that stuff.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that after seeing this fight and now that Shakur's there,
47:26
SPEAKER_00: you got Apataya there, Benavidez is in the ring.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that kind of scares promoters.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Ryan headlined a card for Zufa.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: Do you think there's some real fear more than we had in January from
47:38
SPEAKER_00: the establishment watching what Zufa's doing currently?
47:42
SPEAKER_01: I would honestly say no because they're co-promoting fights.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: So they've already rejected.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: Contradicted their own mission statement on multiple fronts here.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: So I would say if anything,
47:58
SPEAKER_01: it might give them hope that they can co-promote a fight with them as an entity
48:04
SPEAKER_01: and not have their fighters taken from them in some way.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just think it's interesting, right?
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Because it feels like
48:14
SPEAKER_00: There's just no real dates and the economy sucks and it feels like boxing ran out
48:19
SPEAKER_00: of money and it doesn't really even feel like Zoof is the solution.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: It feels like maybe for really,
48:24
SPEAKER_00: really famous fighters,
48:25
SPEAKER_00: you could get a great opportunity, but it feels like for those prospects.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't want who world titles matter for.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe you can be Andres Cortez and get an opportunity and get get a push.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of guys that still need to get fights and dates.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that Zufa is inherently bad
48:43
SPEAKER_00: because I think what all they're doing is this is my take.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't think Zufa is inherently bad because boxing got to a point
48:50
SPEAKER_00: where we accepted matchups we shouldn't have accepted.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: We accepted in-house fights that were not good.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: And it was told to us because it was like,
48:59
SPEAKER_00: okay, well, this is the easiest matchup for us as promoters.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: And you're going to accept it because you're a fan of us as promoters.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: And we do big frigging events.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: This is an event, bro.
49:09
SPEAKER_01: Tell everybody it's an event.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: It's not about the fight.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: It's about the event.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: They do that too, though.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: But they're doing it too.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: But what I'm saying is I think there's an undercurrent.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, my God.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: If we don't do better, we're not going to get fight dates.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a real fear that like...
49:29
SPEAKER_01: From other promoters, you're saying?
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because DAZN has everything and it doesn't seem like they're rushing
49:34
SPEAKER_00: to give top-rank dates.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't seem like they're rushing to give Golden Boy dates.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't seem like they're rushing to give PVC dates.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like the one thing that I do appreciate
49:43
SPEAKER_00: about Zufa besides pushing guys like Cortez is Promoters that might have just kind
49:49
SPEAKER_00: of kept their prospects safe or let them just kind of go for a couple of years.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: The fights are probably going to have to be better or you're just going
49:57
SPEAKER_00: to get fewer dates because it's a more competitive market.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, I think if you're a promoter,
50:08
SPEAKER_01: It's entirely possible, afraid is the wrong word, but you've always been threatened by this.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: And anytime there's somebody who's a competitor that's saying,
50:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to put you out of business, that's a threat immediately.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: But they're, again,
50:24
SPEAKER_01: showing to kind of fold on some of those hard lines that they set at the beginning.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: You know,
50:30
SPEAKER_01: it wasn't like Jai Obatai held his ring magazine and the Zufa belt and said,
50:35
SPEAKER_01: yes, I'm undisputed.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: So the fighters aren't going along with that part of it,
50:39
SPEAKER_01: I think, as easily as they maybe anticipated either.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: I just think it's going to be evolving and it's interesting, but it's like...
50:48
SPEAKER_00: I think what the good thing is,
50:50
SPEAKER_00: for about 15 years,
50:52
SPEAKER_00: maybe even 20 years,
50:53
SPEAKER_00: the fans were told by the promoters what they're supposed to like.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: And now the promoters don't have the networks behind them nearly as much
51:01
SPEAKER_00: and they don't have the support of people.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: And now they have to listen to the consumer...
51:07
SPEAKER_00: Or else they might get run out.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: And I kind of quite like that because it's like for 10 years,
51:12
SPEAKER_00: we've had promoters going,
51:13
SPEAKER_00: you know what, Dakota, this is the matchup you really want to see.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: And you go, I don't like it.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't like this matchup.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: But that's how I felt about this whole card.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: It's why I didn't see it.
51:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like they're there.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, Dana White signed this kid for $15 million and he's not a top 10 ranked guy.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: He's not really good.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: He's like a misfits fighter.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then,
51:36
SPEAKER_01: you know,
51:36
SPEAKER_01: you put it on another streaming service that isn't DAZN,
51:41
SPEAKER_01: which is now $30.99 a month.
51:45
SPEAKER_01: And it's on DAZN pay-per-view, but only if you're in the UK.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, again,
51:49
SPEAKER_01: I talk about this,
51:50
SPEAKER_01: like, every fucking week, but the access to this fight was, like, so limited.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's,
51:55
SPEAKER_01: the game is asking you again to shell out another,
51:58
SPEAKER_01: just a little more, just a little more, just a little more.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: And I...
52:02
SPEAKER_01: I can't be the only one that's tapped out.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: Not that I can't physically pay the $12.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: But you don't want to.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: But I don't fucking want to.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: And that matchup is not the thing that's going to get me to do it.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: No.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's the facts, Jack.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: So that's the episode this week.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's going to be interesting.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: Next week, we've got Pitbull.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: And then we're back to basically not a lot of great fights coming up.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: So, Dakota, any final thoughts?
52:31
SPEAKER_01: We're in a very,
52:31
SPEAKER_01: very mid-period here,
52:33
SPEAKER_01: my friend,
52:33
SPEAKER_01: but for everybody that's been loyal to us,
52:37
SPEAKER_01: we'll be here to give you every update we possibly can,
52:40
SPEAKER_01: even if there's not as many of them as we'd like.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's what we're doing.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, see you guys next week.