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Women Around the World: Judge Jackson · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio eighty. I
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: think you and I've already talked about some mock trials before.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: We talked about our experiences and both of us knowing
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: pretty sure we were amazing lawyers and our attorneys while
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: in high school anyway, But have you ever actually been
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: present for court or have you ever been summons to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: court outside of just oh but maybe yeah, jewelry duty too. Okay, Yeah,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: So I think the short answer is no, I have
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: one time been summoned for jury duty and I actually
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: got called and we actually did go sit in on
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: a case. I've talked about this before. It was really unfortunate,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I think because in this particul Kuler instance, the lawyer
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: for the defendant didn't show up because he had an
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: emergency and it sounded like a legit family emergency. But
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: because of that, the jurors, who were all annoyed to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: be there, kind of were semi joking, semi serious, saying, oh, well,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm against, I'm he's guilty, And the defendant heard
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: this and just kind of was like, I accept, I'm
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: going to say I'm guilty, which maybe he was, maybe
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  Speaker 1: he wasn't, But I think that definitely hearing that conversation
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  Speaker 1: um influenced him, and it made me feel really bad
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  Speaker 1: because I I don't know, like, who knows. Maybe I
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: would have said he was guilty, but like, I don't
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: like the idea that it was sort of just thrown
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: out because some people, and you know, Jerry Duty can
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: be very annoying and very boring. But I don't like
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  Speaker 1: that idea this is a criminal case? Was this like, uh,
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  Speaker 1: I believe it was a criminal case. I think it
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  Speaker 1: was about I believe it was about it was a
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  Speaker 1: business is dispute? Oh yeah, but there was there was
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: possible jail time or sentencing. Yes, yes, okay, interesting that
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: was my one and only that I am thinking of
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: right now. Who knows, Maybe later I'll be like, oh yeah,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: but right now, that's the one. So you never even
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: gotten a ticket. You have to go in front of
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  Speaker 1: a judge. Noh? Was that a judgmental? That's that's pretty impressive,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. I don't know, so yeah, Obviously
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I worked in the court system very for a very
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: long time. I worked in juvenile court. The majority of times.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: We did have a few adult cases, but there are
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  Speaker 1: minor cases. We did have several I will say adult
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: cases where it was juveniles charged as adults UM and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: we would have to be present for that. I have
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  Speaker 1: testified before, and it's the whole thing. It's nerve wracking
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  Speaker 1: to the point that I remember I did one case
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: and the parents were very upset at me because I
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: was obviously advocating for the kid um because I felt
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: like there was a lot of injustices, so many things
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and oftentimes the kids don't get a voice, especially if
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: it's against their own parents. And no judgments on parents,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: because I know parenting is hard, but there are some
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  Speaker 1: things that like this is obvious, what's happening, let's stop this.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: And I got off the stand and they the public
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: defenders and then themselves are pretty interesting because they come
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: at you pretty hard because they want to win the case.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: They try to trick you, like there are so many
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: things and it's not trickery as in like they trying
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to manipulate you, but they will reframe the questions to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: try to get a gotcha moment, and then also like
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, give as much help
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to their clients as well. But I did come off
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: one time and the bailiffs like, man, they were really
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: trying to get you. But you did good. You didn't
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: amos like oh thanks those moments. And I often do
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: as I told you when I'm under pressure or I'm
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: nervous black out, and I was like, I have no
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: idea what I just did. I don't know, but I'm
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: glad you told me that. I hope that helped me
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  Speaker 1: more than hurt me. Um. But I've also been like
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  Speaker 1: an expert, being able to testify what I think would happened,
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  Speaker 1: why I was, I was considered an expert in my
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  Speaker 1: field and whatever whatnot, and so I was able to
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: do all of that. But it's a whole nerve racking process.
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  Speaker 1: And I don't know how much you saw of that trial,
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  Speaker 1: but that makes me think that a guy could have
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  Speaker 1: asked for a dismissal adjurors because that's a biased statement.
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  Speaker 1: So this is me playing judge, not because my experience,
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  Speaker 1: but of watching way too much criminal TV, I think,
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  Speaker 1: but that just that's what it's in my head. I'm like,
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  Speaker 1: that dude should have been like, hey, I heard the
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  Speaker 1: adjurors say. It is because you were out, that's a bias.
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  Speaker 1: Can't we getting new jurors, personal opinion? Whatever? But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: so there's a lot of things. And for defenders and
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  Speaker 1: for public uh defense attorneys, it's it's a whole thing.
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  Speaker 1: And then das and districts attorneys there's a whole level
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  Speaker 1: that they have to do. And usually the old pros
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  Speaker 1: really just stood up there and just kind of stared
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: and would write a couple of notes. But I have
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  Speaker 1: someone else really do it for them. It was interesting.
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  Speaker 1: But why am I talking about all of this? And
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: why am I talking specifically about public defenders a little bit?
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, if you're a good public defender, they are
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  Speaker 1: hard to find because those people who actually put in
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  Speaker 1: that work to get to know their clients as well
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  Speaker 1: as having to really work over time for a case
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  Speaker 1: when they're paid so little, so little that it's it's amazing,
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  Speaker 1: And they should get a lot of accolades, and they
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  Speaker 1: get a lot of hate. They should get a lot
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: of accolades as well. But we are today talking and
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: highlighting a woman who has vast amounts of experiences in
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  Speaker 1: this and who will, hopefully by the time this episode
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: has been released, will have made history here in the US,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: we're talking about Judge Katangi Brown Jackson UM. And yes,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: because we are so up to date with the news,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: you know, we're cool like that. We're going to times
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: MP the date we recorded this, which is April six two,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: because we don't know what's gonna happen. From what we understand,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: things are moving ahead, but very slowly, and this long
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: arduous process again has been extended for a few days
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  Speaker 1: longer for the final vote, which would happen in front
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: of the hundred members of the Senate. It will take
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: that vote. And by the way, this is the first
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: deadlock since nineteen ninety one. I'm moving forward with confirming
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: a Supreme Court nominee then, And of course we know
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: that Merrick Garland did not get a hearing at all,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: maybe it was just pushed out. But we're not here
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  Speaker 1: to talk about all of that today, but to talk
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: about the accomplishments of such an amazing woman that is
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Judge Jackson. So who is Judge Kentangi Brown Jackson. Well.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Judge Jackson was born in Washington, d c. But raised
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: in Miami, Florida. Both of her parents were in the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: educational field, with her dad going from teacher to school
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  Speaker 1: board attorney. And it was during his time in law
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: school Judge Jackson's interest in law peaked. She said of
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: that time. We lived on the campus of the University
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: of Miami, and my dad would sit there with all
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: of his big, thick legal books, and I would bring
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: my coloring books and I would sit next to him
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  Speaker 1: and watch him study and pretend as though I was
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  Speaker 1: doing work as well. That just seems so sweet doing,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I used to say, a specific lawyer. So that makes
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a lot more sense for you. Yeah, pretending like you're
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: an adult doing books. So much fun. Memories to that, right, um.
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  Speaker 1: And of course that interest continued and bloomed later in school,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: not only as high school president. Apparently she was high
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  Speaker 1: school president for a few years as well as like
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: a mayor of a school. I don't know what that means.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like that may have been like a fun
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: this is how electoral colleges go, da da dada. But
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  Speaker 1: she also dominated in speech and debate competitions. Her past
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  Speaker 1: schoolmates have talked about how amazing she was and how
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  Speaker 1: she was obviously a star student and when it came
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  Speaker 1: to what she wanted, well, she knew who she was,
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  Speaker 1: and she knew what she was aiming for, not only
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  Speaker 1: to attend and graduate from Harvard University, but get an
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  Speaker 1: eventual judicial appointment. And though she talked about all the
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: naysayers in her life, like her own high school counselor
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  Speaker 1: who advised her to not set her quote sites too high,
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  Speaker 1: and she proved them all wrong. She not only attended
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  Speaker 1: Harvard but graduated magnum kum laude, but went on to
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  Speaker 1: graduate kum laude Harvard Law School as well. And by
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the way, these are some of the highest academic achievements.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Just in case you didn't know, because I didn't hit that.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I think I's hit kum laude. Want, Yeah, yeah, I did.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. This is how well I know thing.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say no, I don't know President. I've
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: met the President's list a couple of times. Anyway, it's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: not about me. I'm not the Supreme Court justice. And
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't long before she started her path in her career.
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  Speaker 1: After graduating, she served as Supreme Court Justice Stephen Bryer's clerk,
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  Speaker 1: and with that opportunity being an incredible start to her career,
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  Speaker 1: familiarizing her with the justice system, under the Supreme Court
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  Speaker 1: level through helping draft opinions at the time, she continued
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  Speaker 1: on working in private practice and moving on to public
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  Speaker 1: defense and onto the Appeals Division of the Office of
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  Speaker 1: the Federal Public Defender in d C. In two thousand nine,
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  Speaker 1: President Obama nominated Judge Jackson to serve as the vice
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  Speaker 1: chair of the U. S. Sentencing Commission, and she was confirmed.
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  Speaker 1: She was later nominated again by President Obama to the
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  Speaker 1: U S. District Court for d C in twelve and
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  Speaker 1: was once again confirmed. And she was President Biden's first
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: judicial nominee to the US Court of Appeals in d
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  Speaker 1: C and was confirmed. Um. And those same officials who
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  Speaker 1: confirmed her then are some who oppose her now, interestingly enough,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: all right, um um, Yeah. And since being nominated by
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  Speaker 1: President Biden to take the retired seat from Justice Stephen Bryer,
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  Speaker 1: Judge Jackson has been scrutinized thoroughly by the committees, being
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  Speaker 1: asked questions like defining what a woman is, past decisions
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  Speaker 1: she's made on cases with a lot of Q and
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: on rhetoric, and we kind of talked about that previously,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: but I think we do need to come back to
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: it because piece of Gate was mentioned as one of
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: her questions, UM and so many others. But behind her
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: the entire time has been her family who have been
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: watching and supporting her throughout the process. And by the way,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: if you've been watching any of the Questions Committee hearings,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: it's been nice to see them flash to the families
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: because it's so sweet, like the smiles and the tears
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: is moving for sure. Her husband of twenty five years, Dr.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Patrick Johnson, a surgeon at Georgetown University Hospital, and her
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: daughter's Leila and Paulia Jackson UH And fun fact, Leila
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  Speaker 1: actually wrote a letter to President Obama to nominate her
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: mom to the Supreme Court when he was in office,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm like God, that is the sweetest. And her parents,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: John and Ellerie Brown were also in attendance, and if
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: you listen to her opening speech, she says some beautiful
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: things about who they were and how they shaped her life.
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  Speaker 1: Wonderful UM and Judge Jackson said to her daughters, by
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: the way, during her opening statements, girls, I know it's
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: not been easy as I've tried to navigate the challenges
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of juggling my career and motherhood. And I fully admit
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: that I did not always get the balance right, but
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I hope that you have seen that with hard work,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: determination and love, it can be done. I'm so looking
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: forward to seeing what each of you chooses to do
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: with your amazing lives in this incredible country. And with
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: all her accomplishments, it's no surprise that she has many
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: accolades to add to her name, including one Constance Baker
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  Speaker 1: Motley Award, Empowering Women of Color, Columbia Law School, Distinguished
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  Speaker 1: Visiting Jurist, Third Annual Judge James B. Parsons Legacy Award,
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  Speaker 1: Black Law Students Association, University of Chicago Law School, twenty
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  Speaker 1: nineteen Stars of the Bar Award, Women's Bar Association of
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  Speaker 1: the District of Columbia, David T. Lewis Distinguished Jurists in
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Residence at the University of Utah S. J. Quinny College
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: of Law, and during her acceptance speech for the Constance
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Baker Motley Awards, she said, the responsibility of being a judge,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: it means doing the work that is necessary to protect
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  Speaker 1: the rule of law and to promote equality and justice
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  Speaker 1: for all. Right, um, And of course there's a lot
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  Speaker 1: of questions about her being a public defender in some
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: of these cases and about why she did it, what
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: it looked like, and she would make history not only
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: as the first black woman Supreme Court justice, but be
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  Speaker 1: the first public defender to take that spot as well.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: And for me, as someone who has been inside of
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the courtroom, yes I was in juvenile lass, a little
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: bit different, but we understand that ven A law does
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: set up a lot of precedent for a lot of
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: these young people who should be getting rehabilitation but instead, uh,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: there's punitive laws. And we're not gonna talk about that
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: right now, but seeing that need to be represented that
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: public defenders have a different take in these conversations, and
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's so important that she is able to
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: do that. And she even speaks on that that this
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: being a positive, that experience being a positive for her
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: to be able to acknowledge the law from a different standpoint,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and I think that's so important. Um. And so again
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: we are crossing fingers toes and all the things and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: hopes that history has been made with Judge Katangi Brown
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  Speaker 1: Jackson again appointed as the first Black woman in Supreme
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Court justice. I cannot believe it's taken until two I
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: can't believe we're here, but that's okay. We're going to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: celebrate it. And if you're wondering why we've been holding
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: our breath and talking about out this in such a way,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: go take a listen at our past episode with Bridget
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Todd talking about the significance and the controversies of Judge
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Jackson's nomination. Yeah, and Bridget, we record that episode before
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of the hearings are started. We heard a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: lot of these Yeah, these sound clips that have now
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: gone viral and Bridget and you know us, but more
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Bridget nailed it, nailed like the sexist, racist things that
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: re encountered. So yeah, go take a listen to that.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Hopefully this is not going to be a super depressing
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: episode when it comes out, is going to be a
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: source of celebration and not something we're like, oh no,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: we're gonna say, which we're gonna We're gonna say, Yes,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: it's a good celebration. Yes, yes, ses And as always,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions for people you think we
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: should highlight in this segment or any other topic you
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: think we should cover, please emails our emails Stephanie and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: mom stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or Instagram at
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: super producer Christina, and thank you for your patience. Yes,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: thank you very much for that. Thanks to you for listening.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Stop on over told the Protection I Heart Radio. For
• 15:10
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