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Who killed And Just Like That? · The Front

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Before we begin. This episode has some coarse language, mostly
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: because of me from The Australian. This is the weekend
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: edition of The Front. I'm Claire Harvey. Three weeks ago,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: our chief sportswriter slash Sex and the City megafan Jess
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Halleran joined me for an episode we called.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Why is and just like that? So Terrible?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: One week later, show creator Michael Patrick King took to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Instagram announcing that while writing the final episode of season three,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: it became clear to him that this might be a
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: wonderful place to stop. I call bulldust and we just
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: had to get Jess back in for some answers to
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the biggest questions of our time? Who really killed this show?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: When did Carrie become so horrible? How could they think
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the main character ending up a lonely widow was a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: satisfying ending?
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: The big Christian is who gave Miranda a lobotomy?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Like and just like that and just like that is over?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So what are we going to hate watch now? Michael
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Patrick King's statement needs a serious unpacking. We brought our
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: producer Jasper leik In to read Michael Patrick King's statement.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: Okay, and just like that The ongoing storytelling of the
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Sex and the City universe is coming to an end.
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: While I was writing the last episode of And just
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: like that season three, it became clear to me that
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: this might be a wonderful place to stop. Along with
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: Sarah Jessica Parker, Casey Bloyse, and Sarah Aubrey, we decided
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: to end the popular series this year just Remember the
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: Popular Series bit with a two part finale and extended
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: the original series order from ten episodes to twelve.
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: SJ.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: I held off announcing the news until now because we
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: didn't want the word final to overshadow the fun of
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: watching the season. It's with great gratitude. We thank all
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: the viewers who have let these characters into their homes
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: and their hearts over these many years.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: Michael Patrick King.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: So I've grabbed a few responses to that post from Instagram.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: The first one is from g SAG Popular Series four
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: question marks, OMG, the delusion. Sex and the City was
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: a popular series and this is a shadow of that series.
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: It's the generic brand.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: It sucked and it only became popular because people will
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: hate watching it so they can talk about it on
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: their podcasts.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: So true, so true.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: This is a great contribution to debate it's it spawned
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: a whole cottage industry of people talking about that terrible,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: including us.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we are living proof of g SAgs
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: wisdom right now. Next one is from Justin Dipierro. We
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: don't want it to and we want it to be better.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, I truly agree. I would keep watching it.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I suspect that this came to quite a sharp end.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: The penultimate episode was only twenty eight minutes, like, that
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: doesn't make sense to me. And also a lot of
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: that was taken up via a weird pis sing and
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Thanksgiving hot so you think it's actually a mercy killing
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: someone at HBO has gone absolutely just so much money
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: has been spent. The production values on these just enormous,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: which is why it's so easy to hate watch because
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: it's so beautiful.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Right, it has been a flop as well, you know,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: in terms of numbers. It has not delivered the business
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that HBO was hoping.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: No, you can't invest in the story. I am not moved.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Like when you watch Sex in the City, you would
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: be completely moved by an episode. You could be in tears,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: for example, whereas this I cannot There's too many new
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: characters I'm not invested enough in. And then Carry's not
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: the same. Rand is not the same, Charlotte's not the same.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: They're all like a shell of themselves.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah ways or not themselves. And there's no real drama.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: You know, nobody actually dies apart from a big who
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: presumably they just didn't want to pay.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: And he also had the misconduct allegations too, so he's
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: voluntarily canceled.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: What did he supposedly do.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: I think it was an allegation of sexual harassment.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: But that's very in character. They should have gone with that.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: In the first episode they describe him as the new
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, I think they needed to.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Kill Harry, Charlotte's husband. He's a drop anyway, the cancer
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: could have been terminal.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Then they would have developed an actual storyline.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Someone's kid could have moved to Africa instead of just
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: becoming a you know, having a boyfriend who was a
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: balat answer.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: The plot twists are so low stakes that he just
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: takes some lessons from the Days of our Lives or
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: something where drama happens, and then people can react to that.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: It's probably hard to be a good actor when you're
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: reacting to you can't get a pie order in?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then this novel about the Woman that's another
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Debbie downer.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It really was. It's like every time she was typing
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: about the woman, I was like, no, no more woman,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: no stop stop.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Well it was better than the podcast that she had
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: for shadyeas that's the people called in for advice about
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: sex and stuff.
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: Another comment, this one's from mister teddy Bear.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Girl, is that you?
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: That's my fin stup? Now? Can you just release a
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: series only about Samantha in London?
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Actually enjoy what ab I call? Oh my god? Hire
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: that mister Yeah, only crap. Mister teddy Bear knows what
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: he's talking about.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I feel like Kim Kacharll's got that in her.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: She would like, go sure, yeah. That's the other thing
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: about Michael P. King saying I've decided to win this.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: There is no way he would have decided independently to
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: win this show because he's never shown any ability to
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: resist the money. That's the difference about Kim Cattrall. Right,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: she was like, there's no amount of money you can
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: give me, I'm not going to be in this. So
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: it's just completely out of character for him. To voluntarily
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: stopped stop the party.
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: That's a good segue to the next one from Daniel R. Clark.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: MPK has blood on his hands for this. He is
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: ultimately accountable for the poor quality of the writing and
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: disjointed plot lines. Yes, he was brilliant with SATC, but
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: I couldn't help. But wonder if someone else run the
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: show it would have been better.
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: Wow, blood on his hands.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: That's a little bit much.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: It's pretty heavy, but if you go and listen to
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: their podcast you can see they live in a little
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: echo chamber where everything they do is spot on.
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: One of my favorite scenes of all time, carrying Miranda
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: in the kitchen.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I've just been weeding the entire party. Can we talk
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: the hour?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: The Sex and the City premise is that even though
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: it's difficult, the main character is still believed in love
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: and they still wanted to end up with someone, And
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: just like that has ended with Carrie finding peace in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: being by herself, dumping a perfectly good boyfriend in Aiden,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: having a fling with this very unattractive English doorg who
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: lives downstairs, and then you know, not surprise, getting dumped
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: by him. And then it's like, well, why doesn't the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: world understand that it's okay for me to be alone. Well,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I don't want to sound like a trad wife here.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: It actually isn't the point of life to ultimately end
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: up with someone who loves you and have a fulfilling relationship.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but is it a statement that it is okay
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: in this day and age to be by yourself, that
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: your friends are your family and you don't need somebody
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: else to build you up. And maybe it is the
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: ultimate feminist statement that women can do it all by
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: themselves and you can be okay alone. But for me,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: everybody wanted to end up with somebody like this is
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: why we watch TV. We want the happy ending. I
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: have to quit thinking maybe a man and start accepting.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe just me. Full stop.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: You are so fabulous.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Oh well that was never in question.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: She doesn't make being alone look that fabulous. She's hanging
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: around in this apartment or house by herself. She doesn't
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: seem to be doing things that actually make her happy,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: and she doesn't seem happy. She's turned into a complete bitch.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: She's really depressed.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: It is a downer.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: The only thing that leaves you up are the clothes.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: You're like, what's she.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Wearing, and then if you compare her to Sex and
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: the City carry, this is a completely different person. Of course,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: people change in life, right, but I would say most
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: of these characters have had a radical personality overhaul.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: The great thing about Carrie was her laugh, her smile.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: She was so infectious and so lighthearted all the time.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Even when things were difficult, she could pull herself out
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Do you know when I first moved to New York
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: and I was totally broke, sometimes I would buy Vogue
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: instead of dinner. I just felt it fed me more.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: And just like that, the first episode was a funeral,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and over three seasons we've kind of seen her pull
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: herself out of the sadness a little bit, but she still.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Seems very dark.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Do you think they know that, the show creators, or
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: is it a reflection of where Sarah Jessica Parker maybe
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: has ended up that actually she's a bit more grumpy
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: than she was when she was thirty five?
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I've listened to a lot of the
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Writer's Ram podcasts Michael Patrick King, and he's cast of
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: amazing talented writers.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Look they're not They're not amazing talented writers.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: They're terrible, but there is still sparks of great writing
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: through this, but you were so down on it and
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: trying to think of.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: One shouldn't have sacked all those people and hied Lena Dunham.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the quality of the writing you can see, say
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: in Seema and Adam's relationship. But the problem is we're
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: not watching this for them. So even though you've got
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: this sort of beautiful like side romance happening, we don't
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: really care for them. I don't care.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: No, they haven't done good enough character development on those people.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I think, like, we don't know anything about Seema's backstory,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: where did she grow up, how did she make her money,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: why is she single? And Adam's a gardener who just
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: suddenly popped up and took his shirt off, and that's
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: all they've done to establish him.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: As a character. Yeah.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: And Lisa Todd Wexley's dad died twice.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: So they introduce her as a character who's mourning her father. Yeah,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and then three years later, Oh.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Here's a great plot twist. Let's have her father die.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll have a funeral.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: That is inexcusable.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can sort of see where their heads are at,
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: particularly Patrick King, who in one of the podcast episodes
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: gets really excited about the fact there's a puppet featured
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: in one of these. Yeah, and do you know how
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: long it took to make that puppet?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Please?
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: Seven months? It took seven months. I could have made
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: that for them. And the other thing that Michael Patrick
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: King revealed that it costs so much money it was
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: almost like an actor's wage.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: On the series. Well, this is what's happened.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: They've become so rich and privileged, not only the characters,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: but the actors and producers. I think that they've completely
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: lost touch with what ordinary people think about. More of
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: my chat with Jess after the break you said earlier
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: you didn't think that, and just like that has tarnished
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the legacy of sex in the City. No, I'm interested
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: in why not, because frankly, I really wondered about the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: legacy of Star Wars when I saw Judge O binks.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: It is possible to wreck your original creation. What comes next?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I think these two they are completely
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: different worlds. They stucked it up so badly that it
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: actually doesn't resemble really anything of the original aside from
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: the set.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: One of the people who's missing from and just like
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: that is Darren Starr, who created the original Sex in
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the City. He was listed as the creator before that.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: He had created Beverly Hills nine O two one zero
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and Noah's Place, which were era defining shows in their time.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: He's not involved in d Just like that, he's off
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: making Emily in Paris, which does seem to have connected
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: with young people today in the way that the other
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: shows did. Yeah.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: I think Darren Starr is a key creative that is
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: missing from this franchise. And so is pat Field. Like
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Patricia Field was the power behind Carries Close. All the
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: main characters closed, I should say, And so having these
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: two creatives missing from this show, I think it's cost them.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: But something else has gone wrong. I really feel like
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: there's an opportunity here for a really curious investigative journalist
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: to do a deep dive on why exactly I went wrong.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: We've got Heavily Thomas, Yeah, I think we should get Heaviier.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: He's had enough murders.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Who killed Sex and the City? Oh yeah, yeah. Since
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: we last talked about it, it's been killed off. I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: think you are largely responsible for that.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: No, it's you I feel like it's you.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So given that you were hate watching it, you admitted
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that you were hate watching it, you're glad to see
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: it going.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: No, of course not. It's like something you can put
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: on in the background and fall asleep or.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Phone or and put.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Your head up every now and then go oh lista.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Todd Wexley looks amazing. The only winner in all this
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: is Kim Kittrell. After the second movie, she was like,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: it's over. It's done. Even though we've enjoyed hate watching it,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: she understood that it couldn't go on.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: What are we going to hate watch now? Emily in Paris?
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Emily in Paris is what it is?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: It's just silly. It's amazing, incredibly stupid. You know, you
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: get to see Patricia Field's amazing work. But I don't
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: know what we call I don't know, maybe real Housewives.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who'll take it? Yeah.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Jess Hallerin is The Australian's chief sports writer and she
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: just won a LOGI for her amazing documentary about Tennis
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Clayer Yolana Dokitch. You can read Jess's work anytime at
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au to hear more of Jess.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Check out Head.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Noise, an award winning podcast produced by US The Australian,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: available by searching Head Noise wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: This episode of the Front was hosted by me Claire
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Harvey and produced by Jasper Leek, who edited the episode
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and also wrote our theme. Thanks for joining us on
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: the Front this week. Our team also includes Kristin Amiot,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Leat Sammaglu, Tiffany Dimack, Joshua Burton and Stephanie Coombs.