Latest / The SME Stream / John MacDonald: I know you hate taxes. But have you got any better ideas?

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John MacDonald: I know you hate taxes. But have you got any better ideas? · The SME Stream

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It might happen today, might happen today, might not, but
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I reckon it will happen. What I'm talking about is
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the way some people seem to think they have to
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: jump to the defense of the super rich whenever anybody
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: mentions the idea of a wealth tax, wealth tax, which
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: one of our country's wealthiest people is actually advocating for today.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And this is Bruce Plussed, who was a co founder
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of the main freight transport business and who's done very
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: well out of it, so well that he's a billionaire.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: He's a billionaire, and while he's not claiming to be
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: speaking on behalf of all the megawealthy people in New Zealand,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: he's saying today that he would have no problem paying
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: more tax. Main Freight, by the way, trucks everywhere currently
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: valued at about seven point three billion dollars on the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: New Zealand Stock Exchange, and Bruce Plussted still has a
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: fourteen percent stake in the company, so I think and
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: non accountant terms, we can say that he's loaded, absolutely loaded,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and he's happy to pay more tax. At the same time,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Labor leader Chris Hipkins are saying that the party's thinking
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: about including a capital gains tax, and it's tax policy
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: which could include what about this taxing the increased value
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: in people's houses even if they're not selling them, which
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I think is nuts. I've got no problem with the
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: idea of a wealth tax. I think that would be
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: much fairer and more on that shortly, but a capital
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: gains tax, well, for starters, it would probably be one
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: way for labor to guarantee not getting back into government.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: The other reason why I'm against capital gains taxes, That's
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: not one reason why I'm against it. The reason I'm
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: against capital gainst taxes is that capital gain is generally
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the only way ahead for most of us financials, isn't it.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It's the only way head. Maybe the gains we're going
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to get out of property, for example, they won't be
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: quite the same or on the same scale they have
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: been in recent years, But why should we be taxed
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: on that, let alone the capital gain we get on
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: properties we aren't even selling, even talking about that possibility,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: even talking about it. What Chris Supkins is doing is
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: holding up sign saying don't vote for us, because what
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I've learned over the years, as even people on the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: left will avoid paying taxes as they can. It's a fact.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: What's more, as you know, you see with the likes
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: of council rates, just because your house increases in value,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you can afford to pay more rates,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Just like this idea Labour's got, just because your house
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: increases in value doesn't mean you could afford to pay
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a capital gains tax. And then what would happen if, say,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: down the track, the market went backwards and you lost
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: some or all of that capital gain that you'd previously
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: been taxed on refund. Anybody can't imagine it. So I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: think it's very easy. I've shown already very easy to
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: pull holes in Labour's potential capital gains tax idea. A
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: wealth tax though different story, because anyone wealthy enough to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: be on the list of targets for a wealth tax,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: they would not be impacted as much as in fact
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: will change it anywhere near as much as the rest
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: of us would be pinned with a capital gains tax.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Those people I mentioned earlier, you know who jumped to
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: the defense of the super rich. Whenever anybody mentions wealth taxes,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: they won't agree with me. You might be one of them,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: They'll say, you might say what the current Revenue minister
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: is saying that a wealth tax would drive the super
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: rich out of the country. Nonsense. Someone who does agree
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: with me, though, was Max Rashbrook, who is an expert
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: in inequality. In reading what he's been saying today, he
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: says the facts of the matter are that when a
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: super wealthy person threatens to pull their money up if
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: a wealth tax is brought in, it's generally what he
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: describes as quote a hollow threat. He's a researcher at
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Victoria University in Wellington, and he says New Zealand lets
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: wealthy people off very lightly when it comes to paying tax.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Unlike me, though, he's in favor of a capital gains
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: tax as well as a wealth tax. R I'm just
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: in favor of a wealth tax. Nevertheless, Max Rashbrook says,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: quote capital gains tax is just so standard virtually everywhere
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: else in the developed world. It's just part of the furniture.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: It's totally normal. He says, it's bizarre that we don't
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: have one. And on the wealth tax, Max Rashbrook says
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: what he would do is he'd have a wealth tax
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: and put the money into a Kiva service. Geme for kids,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: which he says would genuinely build wealth for everybody, not
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: just for a select few. As he puts it, I
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: wouldn't go for that. What I'd do with the wealth
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: tax money as I would put it into all the
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: things the government, and government's pretty much can't afford to
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: do because they don't bring in enough money from taxes.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: This cost cutting that we're seeing now in the public sector,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: that's just politics. We're not going to suddenly be able
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to afford more infrastructure, We're not going to suddenly be
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: able to afford more hospitals or more of anything the
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: tax payer pays for. The reason for that is that
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: there just isn't enough money coming in the door, and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: it's only going to get worse as the population ages.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So something has to be done. More taxes needed, I'm convinced,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and as far as I'm concerned, the answer is to
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: tax the super wealthy more through a wealth tax instead
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: of hurting us all with the capital gains tax.