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Doc Holliday Was, In Fact, A Deadly Dentist · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Let's give a shout out
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to our super producer, Max Tombstone Williams.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: What you can always call me your Huggleberry. You're always
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: our huckleberry. Max. Do you like a tombstone pizza? What's
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: your favorite oven pizza? Note three years ago, back before
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: the condition. I would love a tombstone pizza. Something about it,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: like pizza and a Matza cracker. It's something, you know,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: it's nothing like it. I wouldn't say it's good, but
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: it's something. It's nostalgic.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Right, Thank you guys for the nostalgic MOTSA shout out.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Uh that's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bowlin, Oh my gosh,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and we're here to talk about one of our favorite
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: legends in the American zeitgeist. You may have heard our
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: pal Max say I'm your huckleberry, and I think Noel,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: we make it official. So you're the bag man eternal
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and uh, Max, how about you be the huckleberry.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: What even is the huckleberry in this? In this context?
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Is that is he referring to like the the berry? Hi?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: This is this a thing people said.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I originally thought it was a reference to Mark Twain's
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: You're totally right. I'm your sidekick, I'm your Huckleberry Finn.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I got your back. That's what he's saying. That's exactly
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: what he's saying. Man. Probably, Man, maybe I put that
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: together at one point, but I surely though apparently our
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: buddy Doc Holliday was a bit of a weedy little
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: fellow who may have done some myth making of his
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: own and may not have ever actually said.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: That, who was a bit tubercular.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: He was a bit tubercular.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: This is the episode where we dive into the real
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: story of the legendary Doc Holiday, most famous in the
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: American zeitgeist as a character portrayed and embellished by Val
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Kilmer in the film Tombstone.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Right in the film Tombstone where the phrase I'm your
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: huckleberry got popularized, it's a fun movie. Well, why Itt Arp? Yeah,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: who plays him, isn't it Kurt Russell? Kurt Russell, that's
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: right of the thing fame. I enjoy that movie a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: lot of It's probably as our most as we've talked
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: about on this very podcast accounts of the wild West
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: a bit embellished, bit overblown. Oh yes, yeah, a lot
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: of myth making that went into those stories, oftentimes from
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: the individuals themselves.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, As we established earlier, and I love that point. Now,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the wild West is a period of time that was
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: actually fairly brief.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: We have an episode specifically called like how the wild
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: West was actually relatively tame?
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: We do, we very much do. And when we dive
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: into the character the actual fact, shout out Lord Vogelbaum, person,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Doc Holiday. What we will see is a Georgia boy.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So if we go to Alvin K. Benson over at Ebscow,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: we see that John Henry Holiday with two els was
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: born like us in August because he's extra Halidday, not Holiday.
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  Speaker 1: He was born on August fourteenth, eighteen fifty one, right
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  Speaker 1: down here in Griffin, Georgia, just.
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  Speaker 2: Down the way. We know folks that stay in Griffin.
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  Speaker 2: John Henry Halliday indeed second child of Alice Jane and
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Henry Burrows Holiday. John's dad was a pharmacist who made
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: his fortune in planting and also lawyering. He was a
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  Speaker 2: planter and a lawyer, bit of a multi pyphonate, yes.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Patrician agrarian. Yeah. Unfortunately, the guy who will later be
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: nicknamed Doc lost his mother fairly early in life. She
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: died of tuberculosis on September sixteenth, eighteen sixty.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Bit of a mythical origin story. If you ask me,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: it's almost like he never got over it.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the levels to what you just said.
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  Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy three, our buddy John is diagnosed with
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: tuberculosis himself just several years after his mother passes away.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: So he looks to the west. Now here the climate
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: right right, yeah, here in the in this period of
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: time in the US, one of the things doctors would
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: advise you to do with a chronic with a chronic
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: condition affecting your lungs was to just go to a
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: different environment. Find different yeah, convalesce, yeah, find a drier climate.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And so what drier climate then Dallas, Texas. You can
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: also if you go to Dallas, Texas in the late
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, you can also gamble your.
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  Speaker 2: Keystar off right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: This is like the types of early gambling halls that
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: we may have seen depicted in Deadwood. For example, the
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: game of Fayro, which I to this day don't fully
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  Speaker 2: understand how it works. Is it sort of a poker
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: esque game? Let's see what the Internet has to say
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not a card doctor, nor am I.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: It does seem to involve poker hands, So yeah, just
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a bit of a rudimentary early version
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  Speaker 2: of poker.
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  Speaker 1: Now, he started becoming an inveterate gambler or a nomadic gambler,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: or a sort of hedge night of the Cards after
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: he left Dallas, Texas in eighteen seventy five. So he
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: spent about two years in Dallas before he got involved
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: in Lexas. Yeah, Hubbloos, he got involved in a a
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  Speaker 1: firearm dispute put diplomatically, and as he said, Noel, from
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  Speaker 1: about seventy five to seventy nine, three years he was
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: just going around the United States frontier and he was
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: not played pharaoh. He was dealing it. He was acting
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: as a dealer in Denver, in Las Vegas, in New Mexico,
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  Speaker 1: in Cheyenne, and Dodge City, Kansas, which has always been
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: a really weird name to me. A certain city, oh yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and a certain point. He had to get right out of
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  Speaker 1: Dodge he did, He did. He was Denver, right, and
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  Speaker 1: so dodged a bullet. There dodged a bullet. He dodged,
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  Speaker 1: balled a lot of stuff, according to Alvin, Alvin, there.
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  Speaker 2: It is, and this rent free in my head. We
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  Speaker 2: want to play the record at double speed. Right, record
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  Speaker 2: is ridiculous history.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: We should do it, Alvin. In the Chipmunks.
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  Speaker 3: Episode, Yeah, it is almost Christmas times. Oh my gosh,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: all right, nostalgia trip aside. According to Alvin Benson, our
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  Speaker 3: buddy John Halliday is drifting around these towns because he
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: keeps getting in trouble with the law.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. He's a bit of a reprobate, a bit of
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  Speaker 2: a hot head. Was prone to, you know, solving his
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  Speaker 2: disputes with violence.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So if you pulled the wrong card, he might
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  Speaker 1: pull the right firearm. Pull your card, Yeah, he pull
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  Speaker 1: your car. Oh, I love that reference the hood. So
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  Speaker 1: he skidaddled to Denver in eighteen seventy six because he
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  Speaker 1: killed a US soldier somewhere in the area of Fort Richardson.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: And then after he went to Denver, he left Denver
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  Speaker 1: with a bad reputation. There was another gambling guy, another
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  Speaker 1: gambling gambine.
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  Speaker 2: Some clouts. It would seem this is maybe why he
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: had to skidaddle.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and they fought with guns. He ultimately looked.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: His story ultimately takes him to Fort Griffin, Texas, and
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  Speaker 1: this is where he meets a character will all recognize
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: from Tombstone, Kate Elder Herrony.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. They met in Fort Griffin, where he also met
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  Speaker 2: the aforementioned US Marshall mister Wyatt Earp, portrayed by Kurt
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  Speaker 2: Russell in the film Huh Tombstone we were talking about earlier.
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  Speaker 2: He was in Texas on the Tale of an Outlaw,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and Doc Holliday himself once again crossed paths in a
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  Speaker 2: negative way with the law when he's stabbed a dude
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  Speaker 2: over a gambling beef in there in Fort Griffin, and
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  Speaker 2: he was in fact jailed, but the love of his life, Herony,
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  Speaker 2: lent him a hand in plotting his great escape.
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  Speaker 1: And I love picturing all of us, all four of
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  Speaker 1: us you listening along get home, the Bagman and the
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  Speaker 1: Huckleberry and yours truly, I love picturing us as bounty
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: hunters or skip tracers we call them. Now, Would you
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: guys ever do that? Would you guys ever be bounty hunters?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Dog remember Dog Scary or Christopher Waltz's character from Django.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy was more less scary, but like he's
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  Speaker 2: the kind of scary that doesn't have to act outwardly
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  Speaker 2: scary because he just gets right down to brass tacks.
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  Speaker 1: And also a dentist.
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  Speaker 2: Ben you did kind of buried the lead in that
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  Speaker 2: hit upon the secret skill at the heart of today's
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  Speaker 2: discussion of our guy, Doc Halliday or Holiday. He was,
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  Speaker 2: in fact, not only a gambler, degenerate gambler, a legendary reprobate,
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  Speaker 2: potentially less of a gun slinger than he himself might
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  Speaker 2: have let on, but he did sling some guns from
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  Speaker 2: time to time. But also he'd dig around in your mouth.
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  Speaker 2: I love the way you put that. Oh, that's so uncomfortable.
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  Speaker 2: He'd dig around in your wet mouth. Yes, another adjective.
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  Speaker 1: As you were saying, Noel. After Kate rescues our buddy John,
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  Speaker 1: they head over to Dodge City, Kansas, and Halliday is
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  Speaker 1: dealing Pharaoh at a place called the Long Branch Saloon.
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  Speaker 1: This is where Wyatt and Doc Holiday become best friends.
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  Speaker 1: Ever because in Dodge City, Kansas, our buddy, our buddy
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  Speaker 1: Holiday saves wyatt earp from a bunch of dudes who
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  Speaker 1: are about to jump him.
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  Speaker 2: Man, I thought I was gonna be from a wicked
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  Speaker 2: tooth infection.
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  Speaker 1: That would be better for this story for sure. Alas alas, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing though, right, He holiday himself
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  Speaker 2: may have you know, exaggerated his reputation as some sort
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  Speaker 2: of tough guy. It seems though, when we really dig
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  Speaker 2: down into the details, he was a bit more of
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  Speaker 2: a hothead, like we said earlier, rather than some sort
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  Speaker 2: of precision you know, surgical killer, right, yeah, assassin's creed.
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  Speaker 1: This guy was not. But he did have the reputation
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  Speaker 1: of being a superb marksman. He was cold in the time.
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  Speaker 1: In this brief period of years, he was called one
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  Speaker 1: of the most deadly gun fighters of the Old West,
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  Speaker 1: likely by himself, likely by him to be quite honest, Yes,
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  Speaker 1: likely by himself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, possible in this idea that he killed thirty five
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  Speaker 2: men's you know, with a single handedly. And he was
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  Speaker 2: also an ace with a bowie knife. Yeah, borderline mythical
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  Speaker 2: type stuff, but not only mythical, also quite apocryphal.
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  Speaker 1: Right, Apocryphal is the right way to say it, because
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  Speaker 1: he is you know, he's a larger than life character.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Peko's Bill kind of thing. A lot of I forgot
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: about Picos Bill, A lot of lurid stories. Can you
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: like create the Great Lakes with his lassu or something?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he did. I'm sure he and his gigantic
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Blue Ox had a great time.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: And our fact based wasn't that Paul Bunyon? Oh?
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  Speaker 1: That was Paul Bunyon. There's so many people.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: There's a there's a pretty awesome and real problematic Disney
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: cartoon about Peko's Bill, right, that involves some pretty off
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: depictions of First Nations people, let's just say, and depicts
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Peko's Bill as the absolute hero whilst he's annihilating these
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  Speaker 2: people with his weapons.
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  Speaker 1: Right, pekos Bill, Paul Bunyon, two different people, uh, two
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  Speaker 1: different legends kind of been diagrammed it one of those like.
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  Speaker 2: How did the thing get made? You know with magical
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  Speaker 2: white dude that did it?
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  Speaker 1: There we go, h our buddy. Doc is a real guy.
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  Speaker 1: He's not called Doc just yet. He's John Halliday. And
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  Speaker 1: the stories about him stabbing or shooting thirty five plus people,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: they were mostly written way after he was in play,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and he popularized this image he leant into it. The
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: man if you meet him in reality while he's alive,
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  Speaker 1: he's riddled with tuberculosis, he's kind of frail. He's actually
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  Speaker 1: not great at shooting, but he is very good at
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  Speaker 1: intimidation and theatrics. So he would literally sort of wave
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: his gun around, speak some dangerous implications, and make people
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  Speaker 1: feel that they would be in trouble. We do know
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  Speaker 1: that he killed at least one person with a shotgun,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: one of the easiest firearms to aim. He killed a
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: guy named Tom mclaurie during the infamous fight at the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: OK Corral.
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  Speaker 2: Right, I believe that's one of his only confirmed kills.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: It's the only one, the only one gotcha. So again,
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  Speaker 2: a lot of apocryphal myth making stuff likely started by
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  Speaker 2: Doc himself. He was used to, like we said, you know,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: settling his disputes with with with fisticuffs and or you know,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: his iron October twenty sixth, eighteen eighty one, in one
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  Speaker 2: of the most written about instances of gun fighting in
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: nineteenth century America, Holiday stood side by side with IRP
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: at the OK Corral in that notorious fight that killed
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: three members of the Clanton Gang. And this is in
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: this period after the Tombstone gunfight that was also you know,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: dramatized in that film.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you go to Tombstone, Arizona today, you're
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: going to see a lot of tourism stuff about it.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. We're an audio podcast, but
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I very much have a Tombstone mustache right now. Thanks man.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: It's not on purpose, it's for some sketch comedy. But
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: if you go to Tombstone, Arizona, you will see factual
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: accountings of a very brief gunfight. Actually, and after this fight,
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  Speaker 1: our buddy Doc is allegedly helping Wyatt Erp murder other
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: members of the Clanton Gang, Frank Stillwell and Florentino Cruz.
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  Speaker 1: The thing is, our buddy John never goes to trial
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: for either of these murders. Instead, he passes away of tuberculosis,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the same condition that killed his mother on November eighth,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: eighteen eighty seven, in a little place in Colorado called
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Glenn Wood Springs. Sounds nice, Yeah, so nice sub division.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Who doesn't love a spring or a glen or a wood.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, I live, you know what's funny? I
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: never mind not going to dox myself but I live
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: on a street involving some of those words.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: We also uh, as we said, we buried the lead
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit. For any fellow fans of the Tombstone
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: cinematic masterpiece, if you're wondering why they call him Doc,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: it's because he actually was a doctor asterisk.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know in those days. I
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: suppose that maybe he didn't take You didn't have to
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: exactly get a four year degree, uh to practice medicine.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: That's why they call it practicing. He did, actually, uh,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: he did have some bona fides, as he also got
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: from his generally affluent upbringing. As we mentioned as far
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: there was a man of means, and Doc's education reflected that.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely so. If you're looking at the guy's jacket,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: as we would say in law enforcement, you'll see that,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: despite being pretty nomadic before he died at the young
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: age of thirty six, he would not just be a gambler.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: He would also say, hey, I'll fix your teeth. He
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: established himself. Due to his agrarian upbringing, he had a
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: phenomenal education for the time, especially in Georgia. He was
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: able to ship off to Philadelphia and go to the
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery after being homeschooled in math, rhetoric, grammar, history,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the classics, the classics exactly. He spoke Latin. Okay, at
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: least he knew some phrases.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Well, that's funny because one key part of Doc Holliday's character,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: as he's depicted in fiction, is often his aerodyte speech
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and his flowery kind of language. Wouldn't you say, absolutely,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it seems to indicate that background in this sort of
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: you know, realm of literature and history.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. And at the time, the Pennsylvania College of
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Dental Surgery was the second oldest dentist outfit in the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: United States. And his father said, Uh, you got to
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: be a dentist, John, because it's more respectable than being
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a doctor, he says, more progressive as well.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Interesting, whatever that sentiment came from.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: We'll never know. I guess the guy didn't like doctors,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: but his pattern familius was pro dentist, anti doctor.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Weird.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: The mouth is the window to the soul, as they
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: say that. But you know, like, yeah, there are so
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: many infections and dangerous things that can originate in the mouth,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: and in this day where dental hygiene was probably not
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: the best. A dentist could absolutely save someone's life.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And this kid is a cracker jack student. With just
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: a year under his belt, he learned everything that Pennsylvania
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: could teach him about dentistry, so much so that he
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: met diminishing returns. He finished his studies a little too early.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't the appropriate age to receive his diploma.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I believe it's interesting you don't think about this, but
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: he had to be a minimum age of twenty one
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: in order to practice dentistry in the state. So he
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: had to weigh another five months before he got to
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: start his career.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: And that's the state of Pennsylvania. After he graduates, he
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: goes back home Orgy they have like children practicing dentists. Yeah,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: totally fine. Yeah, the minute you land in Hartsville, Atlanta,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: watch out for baby dentists.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: That's terrifying.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: If you take nothing away from.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Still to this day, you get off the plane, the
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: little baby's coming at you, run it at you. Trying
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: to think of the names of other dental tools, but
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: let's see novacane speculum. That's very different to the profession.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: That's a different kind of mouth. Oh gosh, I don't
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: know if we can keep that part. But different Holt,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: that's not better, We're making it worse.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Holiday is returning to the Atlanta metro areas. So he's
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: he's from Griffin, which is about what we say, forty
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: miles south as the crow flies.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And funnily enough, Atlanta being a metro area, it doesn't
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: take much more than forty or fifty miles in either
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: direction for it to start feeling.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Real, real, real, real. I know some cows by first name.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: So he goes to a guy named doctor arthur Ford.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Doctor arthur Ford is an established dentist, and it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Sounds like you don't get a name like that or.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Nothing, right, and uh so he studies. He's like the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: paddle one or the disciple of this guy. Their dentistry
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: practice becomes the largest in the city, and if you
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: didn't have tuberculosis, you would be set for life.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: It's just it's not something that we worry about as
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: much these days, but there was a big deal back then. Yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: The problem is this guy is like coughing up blood
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: a character in the films, right, and he's coughing probably
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: in other people's mouths. Hygiene wasn't where it is now
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: and that bloody hanky, yeah, bobdial. And so he is recommended.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: He's plugged in with the medical industry of the day,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: so he can see doctors. He has primary care physicians,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and his guys recommend that he leaves the Southeast, as
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: we're saying, for a drier environment, for different air. That
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: takes him to Dallas, Texas. And at first he's like,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I like gambling, but at my heart, you know, I'm
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: a dentist, so I should find another dental outfit and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: just keep being weird about teeth. And he finds a
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: guy named doctor John Seegar.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they go into business together, set up a practice
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: that does quite well for a time, that is, until
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Doc's unfortunate symptoms return. And it's probably not the best
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: look to have a you know, I don't know if
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: they had n ninety five masks back in those days,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: So probably not the best look to have a dude
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: like coughing up lung chunks into your mouth. Well he's
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: digging around in there. Yeah, it was a bad look.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: It led to a bad reputation, and therefore the business
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: began to decline. Holliday then was forced to seek alternate employment.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was. He was doing a good job,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: like he was technically good for the time, so much
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: so that he won awards at the Dallas County Fair.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: He and doctor Seeger they got awards for quote best
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: set of teeth in gold, quote best in vulcanized rubber,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and quote best set of artificial teeth and dental wear. Now, Noel,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to this idea of vulcanized
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: rubber teeth.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know much about this.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: It's not straight seahorse teeth.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: It certainly is. And I'm so glad that you pulled
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: out that chestnut from the glory days. Now, you know
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: what we're in, the glory days, the early days of
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: ridiculous history.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean rubber teeth, tires for your mouth. I
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: guess that's all teeth are.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Vulcanized rubber is exactly what was used for tires. That
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: process is what led to the expansion of you know,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: like the Michelin company volcanization.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And also led to Ford Landy an episode speaking of
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: old chestnuts.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Did that one, didn't we?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we must have.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: We had to.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: His dental work docs in Fort Griffin around eighteen seventy seven.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: We don't have a ton of documentation about it, but
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: we do know that the love of his life, Kate
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Elder Herony, claimed her old boy Doc would sit around
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: in his hotel room in Fort Griffin and just do
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: pop up dentistry. Would you ever go to a pop
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: up dentist?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Well maybe in eighteen seventy seven, now maybe, who knows.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: That's again back to Deadwood. I'm sure there's It's not
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: always entirely accurate, but I enjoy the show very much,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: and you do often see those kind of off the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: books medical procedures being done in a brothel we're in,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: you know, one's rented room, you know, by the dock.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And that show played by the guy that did the
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: voice of Chucky the Doll, No kidding, the murder doll.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: What was his name, Brad Dorif, I believe is his name,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And that show also depicts one of the most brutal
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: examples of someone with kidney stones that I think any
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: of us have ever seen, where Al Swearingen and in
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: the dock have a little back and forth in trying
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: to expel swear Engine's kidney stone. It is brutal and
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: show how gnarly it must have been to get sick in.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Those days, especially at that time. Yeah, and shout out
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to anybody who's ever had to deal with a kidney stone.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I love a lot of things, but I did not
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: love it that experience. We do love the National Museum
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: of Dentistry, where we're getting a lot of our primary
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: sourcing from here, and the boffins at the National Museum
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: of Dentistry want us to tell you that by the
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: time our pal doc Holiday or Halliday as it's pronounced correctly,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: has reached Fort Griffin, he already has a reputation as
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: a hot headache gambler who was a friend of the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: bowie knife and the firearm. This is why people in
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the know are calling him the Deadly Dentist.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't. Didn't he like put out an
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: ad kind of for his services.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yes, Spring of eighteen seven, he picks up a room.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Think of it like a long term hotel rental or
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: an airbnb at the dodge house a boarding house, so
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: he and the love of his life, Kate can hang
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: out there in Kansas. It is super swank for the environment.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: They got billiards downstairs. There are definitely some card games
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: going on. Doc is in Seventh Heaven. Here he can
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: practice dentistry during the day, he can gamble. He doesn't
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: really have to leave the building. And we got to
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: do the ad. Let's do the ad.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's fantastic, Jay, you know, And he goes for
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: a bit more of a professional name here in dentistry. JH.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Halliday dentist very respectfully offering his professional services to the
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: citizens of Dodge City and surrounding county during the summer
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: summer deal. His office resides at Room number twenty four
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: at Dodge House, where satisfaction is not given. Ben money
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: will be refunded. He's got a money back guarantee, stands
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: by his work and he's.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Got a money back guarantee. So how many people do
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: you think asked for their money back after he coughed
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: wet tubercular blood. Yeah unclear, Yeah, unclear. But we do
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: know something happened because later our pal Doc and Kate
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: move their tense stakes again, and this time they go
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: to either Nevada or New Mexico. But ultimately they arrive
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: in Las Vegas and it is just a few days
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: before Christmas of eighteen seventy eight. People at this time
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: were profoundly frightened of tuberculosis. It was a lot like
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: having a terminal cancer is today. So they would go
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: to the hot springs and the idea was there would
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: be some sort of rejuvenating quality to the water and
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: the air would be better. And eventually there were a
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: lot of people with tuberculosis in Vegas well, and.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: You could, you know, potentially be ostracized for having this.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: People didn't want you around. There was a term of
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: abuse actually that was thrown around a lunger. You were
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: a lunger, not a lunger, a lunger, And I've heard
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: that in various Westerns and stuff. It's definitely like an insult.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: But I love the fact that the Doc, along with
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: some of the folks around him there in that town,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: they kind of take it back and start something called
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: the Lungers Club.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I love it. And everybody watching Tombstone you may have
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: had that moment where we saw we saw the one
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: of the main bad guys who also speaks Latin, keeps
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: referring to Doc as a lunger, and he's like, oh, yeah.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: That's where it is. Yeah, I've heard another thing to do.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: But you're right then you say that a lot like
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: but they're using it as a nasty you know.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: But in yeah and so, I love the point you're
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: bringing up about owning the phrase. Right, there are enough
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: of us to make our own club. We'll call it
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: the Lungers Club. Doc wants to help these people, so
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: he sets up a new dentistry practice almost in the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: middle of town. And it doesn't last long because there
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: is a very cold winter that year. And more importantly
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: for our pal Doc, the government issues a new bill.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And this bill says no more gambling. Ahh okay, that's
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: classic anti Doc truly.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. March of eighteen seventy nine. He you know, you
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: can't take the gamble out of the dock, so he's
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: he very politely declines to change his behavior, but unfortunately
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: that does cause him to run a foul yet again
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: of the new law, and he is indicted for running
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: an illegal gambling game.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: He's got a hot head. He loves the cards. His
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: fingers love the cards. He can't not play Pharaoh. He's
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: not jailed, though, he just.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Gets you know, hit with a stiff fine and then
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: decides to he's leaving. He's leaving Las Vegas.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: You know, and to be clear, we are talking about
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Las Vegas, New Mexico.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Because Las Vegas, Nevada wasn't even it was barely a
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: glimmer in the eye of the mafia at this point.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Right, Oh, we should do an episode.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: No, I know, we have done something about binions, like
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of the signs and some of the early
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: remember we talked to We definitely have talked about some
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: of these things. But you're one hundred percent right, and
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: there's got to be a bigger story there.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Dude, there's an origin story when we are such an
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: old married couple right now. New Mexico is definitely a state,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: and our research associated for this episode, Max points out
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: that we still do not have a New Mexico state
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: episode yet. Yeah, okay, we count this one.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I think we could. It's it's definitely spends it a
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: reasonable reasonable amount of time in New Mexico, So sure,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: for sure, but we'll still do a bigger one. Can
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I take a moment as we're talking about New Mexico
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: just to sad are ass? Have you seen the New
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Vents Gilligan show yet, pluribus?
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I have not, but I've heard good things.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: It's phenomenal and it is set in New Mexico in
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Albuquerque yet again, but not a extended universe of Breaking
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Bad or better call.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Salt Jesus events. Just get the key to the city.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: He loves it there. He loves it there. He apparently
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: did it only because he just likes working with his
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: crew there. And there is a mural somewhere there in
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Albuquerque of Walter White's tombstone. So taking a full circle there,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: you can take your picture with Walter White's tombstone. Also,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: gee's to whomever owns that house, because I remember it's
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: a house. Yeah, and the heyday of Breaking Bad fandom,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: there were people who just drive up and frisbee, uh pizza,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: a pizza box atop the roof. You've heard the lore.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Apparently he got that in the first take and it
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: wasn't even like it just he just nailed it.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also fun to throw a pizza box like
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: a frisbee.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: It's a giant pizza too. I think that's sort of
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: part of the joke. That's the biggest pizza I've ever seen.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Well, it's easier. I think it's easier for throwing over distance. Wait,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: how many pizza boxes do you guys throw like on
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: a monthly basis.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with none, But now that you're putting
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: this in my ear, I think I might need to
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: change that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: So to you love the way when he throws it
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: at the pizza and the pizza box just go their
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: own ways, you know, and the pizza ends up completely
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: there you go, completely h d boxed and hanging on
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: the roof perfectly.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So to conclude our tail for today, as we all know,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: the Deadly Dentist has one more stop. It is Tombstone, Arizona.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: There is not proof of this. This is again apocryphal,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: but from what we understand he was still working tentatively
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: as a dentist.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: A mouth diver.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: A mouth diver is the phrase our research associate, Max
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: chose for that one.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: It's very good. So wait, so all of the stuff
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: that's portrayed in the movie Tombstone, like it's been a
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: lot of times as I've seen it, he does some shooting,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: some rooting and toot and shooting in that movie.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Doesn't he He does. He does as a badass right
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: very much so, like in the milieu of the film,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Doc is already established as a known threat and gambler.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: So we see a couple of scenes with him an
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: expert marksman, standoff guy, and one of the most pivotal
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: scenes will will be him walking in a trench coat
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: with a shotgun underneath. Yeah, and then and then there's
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: also the scene of him with a six shooter at
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: his back, tucked into his back belt. Yeah. So he
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: was quick with it, at least in the film.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: But we know.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: We know that wyatt ierp at least in his own account,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: appeared to believe that Doc was still attempting to go
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: legit as a dentist in Tombstone. As we know. Ultimately
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: he does end up in the mucolic glen Wood Springs,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Colorado because of the sulfurous water people thought that might
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: leave tuberculosis. And then even in the grips of an
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: advanced medical condition, our buddy John Doc Holiday attempts to
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: practice dentistry again, but it doesn't work and he passes away.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: He's thirty six. It's oh my god, eighteen eighty seven,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: so young.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: He does to come to the to the condition that's
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: been plaguing him ever since he was a lad.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: The unconfirmed reports of his last words, which again, well,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: we have to give a grain assault to Apparently his
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: last words were make sure you floss after them huckleberries,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure Max made up, I think purpose.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they had dental flaws yet back
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: in those days they did. Most people's last words are
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: something like.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Death rattle.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the beep there.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: It would have been cool, though, if his last words
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: were dental hygiene related. You know, he really was passionate
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: about you can't prove it wrong. That's very true, Max,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm not going to try.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I think I can. But we'll see episode for different
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: You were there, Yoda, I got the mustache. That's like
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: a time travels passport.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: You guys are kindred spirits, and there's no question.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I think so we should also do
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: an episode on famous last words, if we haven't yet huckleberries,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and on huckle the fruit, if it is in fact
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: even a real I truly don't know. Last pro tip, folks,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: for this episode. There is a healthy discourse around what
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Val Kilmer actually said in that line from Tombstone. Did
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: he say I'm your huckle berry, or did he say,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I'm your huckle barrow. Very strange conversation. We welcome you
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to it, and we are so excited that you have
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: joined us today. Big shout out to our super producer
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: mister Max Williams, also our research associate for today's episode.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: And our huckleberry, which is in fact a fruit that
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: exists and is in the blueberry family. Tight huge thanks
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: to Alex Williams who composed this theme. Chris Frosciotis needs
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Jeff cos Heren Spear, big.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Big thanks to our pals doctor Rachel Big, Spinach Lance,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: as well as A J. Bahamas Jacobs and Oh Gosh,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: our own one man, Clanton Gang, Jonathan Strickland A K.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: The Quist. You know what you did. We'll see you
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: favorite shows,