Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Pastor Philip Anthony Mitchell Talks 'Contend,' Faith Journey, Idolization Vs. Admiration, 2819 Church; Confronting Culture With Biblical Truth + More

Transcript

INTERVIEW: Pastor Philip Anthony Mitchell Talks 'Contend,' Faith Journey, Idolization Vs. Admiration, 2819 Church; Confronting Culture With Biblical Truth + More · The Breakfast Club

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Speaker 1: Hold up. Every day I wake up.
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Speaker 2: Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Y'all finished or
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Speaker 2: y'all done?
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Speaker 1: Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Just Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy.
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Speaker 1: We are The Breakfast Club. Law and the Rose is
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Speaker 1: here as well. We got a special guest in the building.
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Speaker 1: We have Pastor Phillip Anthony Mitchell.
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Speaker 2: Welcome, brother. What's good, yo? Thank y'all for having me.
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Speaker 1: How you feeling, man?
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Speaker 2: I'm feeling good, bro. I'm feeling blessed. Good to see you.
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Speaker 2: Good to see you. New book called Contend, man. Why
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Speaker 2: that title? Yeah, man. Um. I mean, arguably, I mean,
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Speaker 2: I think the Lord Jesus Christ is probably the most
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Speaker 2: influential person in the history of the world. And then
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Speaker 2: his teachings and the teachings of the word of God,
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Speaker 2: wherever they flourish, man, we see human flourishing. I think
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Speaker 2: they've given us the best ethics for marriages, for relationships,
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Speaker 2: for business, for life. And content is just a message
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Speaker 2: for us to stand for the principles of the Lord
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Speaker 2: Jesus Christ and the word of God for the good
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Speaker 2: of all humanity. And that is really the foundation of
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Speaker 2: the book. And I saw you say that you're telling
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Speaker 2: people to fight for their faith. Yeah, fight for the faith. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: the brother of Jesus, Jesus had a younger brother named Jude.
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Speaker 2: And in the first century, Jude had a message. He
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Speaker 2: was calling people to contend for the faith. That is,
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Speaker 2: the values of Christianity was being diminished by false teachers,
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Speaker 2: false gospels, false truths. So he stood up and said, man,
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Speaker 2: we need to fight for the truth. And all of
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Speaker 2: them was repackaged. That message in our generation said we
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Speaker 2: need to fight for the truth. I didn't know Jesus
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Speaker 2: had a little brother. He had a number of brothers.
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Speaker 2: Like biological? Yeah, Jesus had four brothers and two sisters minimum. Wow.
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Speaker 2: He was raising a home. It was seven of them minimum.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Well, all of them weren't immaculate conception. No. Well, Jesus
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Speaker 2: was the only one that was conceived immaculate, but he
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Speaker 2: had brothers and sisters. The scripture teaches us, but they
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Speaker 2: did not believe in him until after he was raised
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Speaker 2: from the dead.
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Speaker 1: So for people that don't know who you are, Pastor,
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Speaker 1: and don't know your story, just break down who you
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Speaker 1: are a little bit and where you come from.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was born right here in the city
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Speaker 2: from Queens, New York. I was born to immigrant parents
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Speaker 2: from the nation of Trinidad. My parents were believers, but
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Speaker 2: I did not believe what they believed. I saw them
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Speaker 2: reading the Bible, praying, but that stuff made no sense
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Speaker 2: to me. At the age of 12, I went out
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Speaker 2: in the street selling crack cocaine at the age of 12.
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Speaker 2: I was robbing people at gunpoint by the age of 17.
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Speaker 2: I spent my 18th birthday at Rockers Island Prison. And
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Speaker 2: I was forced out of New York because of legal trouble.
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Speaker 2: Ended up in North Carolina. Ran the streets for maybe
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Speaker 2: another 10 years with some dudes. At about 24 years
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Speaker 2: of age, man, I had what I thought was all
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Speaker 2: the trappings of worldly success. You know, I had a
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Speaker 2: luxury car, dope girlfriend, dope apartment, some money in the bank.
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Speaker 2: But I had no peace. I had no joy. I
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Speaker 2: felt very empty. I was suicidal. I survived a suicidal
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Speaker 2: attempt with a shotgun and a bottle of Hennessy. And
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Speaker 2: then around that same time, when I was empty, I
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Speaker 2: met God in the bathroom. I should say God met
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Speaker 2: me in the bathroom. He transformed my whole life and
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Speaker 2: led me into the ministry. That's how I got here.
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Speaker 2: What happened in that moment in the bathroom? My girlfriend
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Speaker 2: at the time, man, she got into a car crash,
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Speaker 2: and she came back to our apartment, and she put
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Speaker 2: on gospel music. It was the first time in my
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Speaker 2: life I ever heard gospel music. And she was walking
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Speaker 2: back and forth with her hand raised, just kind of
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Speaker 2: thanking God that she survived that car crash. And I
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Speaker 2: was watching her, and this thought came to me. It
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Speaker 2: was like, yo, whatever that was, I saw joy. I
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Speaker 2: saw peace. I thought to myself, whatever that was, I
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Speaker 2: wanted that for myself. So I kind of crawled into
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Speaker 2: a bathroom. I started yelling at God. I did not
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Speaker 2: believe God existed. I thought he was just a name
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Speaker 2: on a page. But God revealed himself to me in
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Speaker 2: that bathroom. He changed my heart in that bathroom. And
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Speaker 2: like six months later, he began to speak to me
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Speaker 2: about my future, about what I'm doing right now.
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Speaker 1: When did you decide that you wanted to become a
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Speaker 1: pastor and to preach?
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Speaker 2: Man, I never wanted to be a pastor. I never
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Speaker 2: wanted to be in ministry. This was not my dream.
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Speaker 2: So April 14th, 2004, I was reading Proverbs 3, verse
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Speaker 2: 5 through 6. It's like the GPS for life. Trust
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Speaker 2: in the Lord with all your heart and lean not
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Speaker 2: in your own understanding. Acknowledge me, I'll direct your path.
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Speaker 2: And as I'm reading that, I felt God speak to
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Speaker 2: me on the inside of my heart. call towards pastoral ministry.
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Speaker 2: But I ran from that for four years. You know
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Speaker 2: what I'm saying? Like, I had no desire to preach,
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Speaker 2: no desire to do church. Like, I didn't want no
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Speaker 2: part of that life. And so after four years of running,
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Speaker 2: I finally surrendered, and God's been leading me ever since.
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Speaker 1: Now, your church grew from very few viewership to thousands
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Speaker 1: and thousands and thousands. So talk about that and building
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Speaker 1: out a church and what that came, because most people,
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Speaker 1: you know, it's that call and they run from it
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Speaker 1: for so long, but you really dove into it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I pastored a small church called Victory for about
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Speaker 2: 10 years. And I think during that season, I had
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Speaker 2: a lot of vanity in my heart that I didn't realize.
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Speaker 2: I wanted to be rich. I wanted to be famous.
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Speaker 2: I wanted to be known. I wanted platforms. I wanted
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Speaker 2: all those things.
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Speaker 1: Still as a pastor?
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Those things was buried in my heart. I tried
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Speaker 2: to cover them, but they were there. God never answered
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Speaker 2: none of those prayers. My motives wasn't completely pure. After
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Speaker 2: 10 years, I lost that ministry during COVID. And right
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Speaker 2: after COVID, God put it in my heart to start
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Speaker 2: a brand new ministry called 2019. We started that ministry
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Speaker 2: in January of 23 with 183 disciples. It's grown in
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Speaker 2: three years to over 6,000 disciples locally, hundreds of thousands
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Speaker 2: on YouTube, a few million around the world. We call
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Speaker 2: them digital disciples. All of that is God's doing. I'm
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Speaker 2: just trying to do my best to steward what I
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Speaker 2: believe is a revival in our generation.
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Speaker 3: Can you speak to vanity, man?
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Speaker 2: I don't think people.
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Speaker 3: Realize how much of a sin vanity is. I feel
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Speaker 3: like in the social media era, vanity is amplified because
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Speaker 3: of that.
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Speaker 2: Can you speak to that? Yeah, I think vanity is
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Speaker 2: just a fallen human desire for us to have glory
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Speaker 2: for ourselves and to run after things that's ultimately not
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Speaker 2: going to satisfy, right? So, man, I've traveled around the world.
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Speaker 2: I've sat with millionaires and billionaires. I've sat with NBA players,
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Speaker 2: NFL players, MLB players. I've sat in spaces I would
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Speaker 2: have never imagined. And this one thing I've seen has
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Speaker 2: been very consistent. It doesn't matter how wealthy a man
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Speaker 2: is or what they have. And if a man does
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Speaker 2: not have the Lord Jesus Christ, there will be something
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Speaker 2: in their heart that makes them feel empty and void.
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Speaker 2: And I think a lot of us are just pursuing
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Speaker 2: all these things. At the end of the day, let's
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Speaker 2: keep it real, right? Like there's a lot of people
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Speaker 2: you can get to a bag, you could get to
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Speaker 2: the top of the corporate ladder, have mad houses, cars,
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Speaker 2: all the things. But there's a part of us that
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Speaker 2: still wakes up empty, you know, still wakes up feeling unfulfilled.
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Speaker 2: I've learned from talking to people all around the country
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Speaker 2: and around the world that Christ is the thing that
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Speaker 2: fills that. And so I had that vanity in my
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Speaker 2: heart as a pastor, but that vanity was empty. You know,
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Speaker 2: Peep Game, Charlamagne was like the proliferation of social media
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Speaker 2: gives us windows into everybody else's life. And I think
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Speaker 2: what that creates in us is a lot of jealousy
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Speaker 2: for what other people have. So like, yo, Charlamagne just
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Speaker 2: got this big bag. I want that. Like, yo, Envy
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Speaker 2: got this dope crib in Jersey. I want that. You know,
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Speaker 2: Jess Platform is blowing up. I want that. So because
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Speaker 2: we got access into everybody's life, it creates a vanity
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Speaker 2: of heart that's like, I want what this person has, right?
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Speaker 2: That wasn't me. So I'm pastoring. I'm saying like, yo,
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Speaker 2: this dude got a big church. This dude's getting a bag.
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Speaker 2: This dude is on this platform. This dude is at
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Speaker 2: this conference. That's what I had in my heart. But
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Speaker 2: God had to wring all that out of my heart.
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Speaker 2: I had to get that stuff out of my heart.
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Speaker 2: And the truth is crazy because once I had no
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Speaker 2: desire for it, he gave me everything that I formerly wanted.
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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? So, like, for me right now,
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Speaker 2: I don't really care about platforms or sitting on podcasts. Like,
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Speaker 2: those things are not, that's not my desire. Like, if
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Speaker 2: they come, I take them. My desire is for impact.
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Speaker 2: I want to see lives changed for the glory of Christ.
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Speaker 2: And what you said is true because it's like vanity
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Speaker 2: turns to Envy. Yes. And then, you know, envy, it
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Speaker 2: can go from, you.
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Speaker 3: Know, vanity and wanting that to envy to resenting a
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Speaker 3: person for having it.
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Speaker 2: A thousand percent. And that can lead to all types
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Speaker 2: of crazy things. I think one of the things that
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Speaker 2: leads to that we see all the time is like slander, right?
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Speaker 2: Like everybody at this table, like since y'all are all influencers,
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Speaker 2: we all know what it feels like to go on
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Speaker 2: social media and see somebody calling you out your name
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Speaker 2: or somebody in the comments trying to say, oh, we
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Speaker 2: don't like Jess or Charlamagne this or envy that. But see,
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Speaker 2: like if the devil could find a jealous heart, he
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Speaker 2: could make a slanderous mouth. Right. So I think anytime
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Speaker 2: the devil gets a hold of somebody whose heart is
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Speaker 2: really full of jealousy, man, he can make a slanderous
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Speaker 2: mouth out of that person. And that's a lot of the, the, uh,
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Speaker 2: the chatter we see in comments against all of us,
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Speaker 2: people who's just jealous and full of envy. And that's
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Speaker 2: really a sin. Slander is a sin, you know? And
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Speaker 2: so that's what we see happening right now too.
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Speaker 1: Now talk about the, the, the name 2819 and why
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Speaker 1: you chose that scripture to name your congregation.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, um, I wasn't that creative. Um, My man
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Speaker 2: who's in the studio right now behind me, my man
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Speaker 2: Lionel Williams, he's the executive pastor at our church. I
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Speaker 2: knew that God was calling me to change the name
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Speaker 2: and start something new, but I had no name. Right.
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Speaker 2: So we was in a staff meeting. He's writing names
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Speaker 2: on the board, had like 30 names on the board.
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Speaker 2: And my man, he pushed back from the table. He's like, yo,
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Speaker 2: I know I'm only a consultant, but I want to speak.
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Speaker 2: I'm like, yo, do you? He's like, listen, when I
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Speaker 2: listen to you talk, when I see your passion, I
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Speaker 2: see your heart. I think I got a name that
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Speaker 2: fits you. why don't you just name your church after
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Speaker 2: the Great Commission scripture, Matthew 28, 19, make disciples of
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Speaker 2: all nations. He wrote that joint on the board, and
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Speaker 2: the first thing I said, that's the dumbest thing I
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Speaker 2: ever heard. You know my name's Day Church after a number.
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Speaker 2: But when we stared at it, we kept staring at it.
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Speaker 2: You said that too? I said that too. I told
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Speaker 2: him that's the dumbest thing I ever heard. So that
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Speaker 2: joint is stupid. But we wrote it on the board anyway,
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Speaker 2: and we were just staring at it. And as we
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Speaker 2: stared at it, man, it just shifted the whole conversation.
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Speaker 2: We thought to ourselves, like, yeah, we're going to do this.
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Speaker 2: So we just named the church after the Great Commission.
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Speaker 4: What's one of the hardest things that you had to
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Speaker 4: let go from the streets, right, to actually really fully
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Speaker 4: embody your calling, like what God called you to do?
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Speaker 4: What was like the most challenging thing to let go?
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Speaker 2: Dang, that's a dope question. You know, I'm a hood
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Speaker 2: dude at heart. I love the street. I love being
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Speaker 2: on the block. And you know how people like, you know,
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Speaker 2: some preachers be talking like, you know, they call your
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Speaker 2: sin like nasty and all of that. I enjoy my sin.
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Speaker 2: I enjoyed the life I was living. So I think
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Speaker 2: for me, the hardest thing to let go was friends,
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Speaker 2: roaming the streets, being reckless in the streets, running with women,
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Speaker 2: all the things I love. You know what I'm saying?
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Speaker 2: I'm married now, but I love hopping from bed to bed.
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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I like rolling up blunts
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Speaker 2: first thing in the morning. You know, I like pushing
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Speaker 2: weight up and down the eastern seaboard. So it's like
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Speaker 2: all the things that I enjoyed, I had to let
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Speaker 2: all those things go. In essence, I had to let
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Speaker 2: go of my will for God's will. And it cost
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Speaker 2: me in the beginning. It was painful in the beginning.
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Speaker 2: I shed many tears, but I'm thankful for where I
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Speaker 2: am right now. I didn't hear you say you let
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Speaker 2: go of your pistol.
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Speaker 3: And your whole demeanor still gives off, you know.
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Speaker 2: Your whole demeanor still gives off. You might have it
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Speaker 2: on you. I carry my pistol everywhere I go. I mean, obviously,
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Speaker 2: I don't got it in the studio. But that's like
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Speaker 2: my personal armor bearer. You know what I'm saying? And
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Speaker 2: I mean, I got angels and I got pistols. I
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Speaker 2: got a lot of them. And then, you know, somebody
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Speaker 2: listening to this is going to give me a hard time,
10:41
Speaker 2: but they don't read. And there was this scene in
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Speaker 2: the scriptures where Jesus was about to go preach somewhere.
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Speaker 2: He turned to one of his closest disciples, his right-hand man.
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Speaker 2: His man was Peter. He was like, yo, you got
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Speaker 2: a sword on you? Peter was like, yeah, I got one.
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Speaker 2: He said, go sell your jacket and buy another one.
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Speaker 2: So the followers of Jesus, they were strapped. That's why
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Speaker 2: when Jesus was being arrested, Peter pulled out a sword
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Speaker 2: and cut a man's arrow. So they was always strapped.
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Speaker 2: So there's nothing wrong with being strapped. It's just how
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Speaker 2: you use it. What would you say to people who
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Speaker 2: say you can't have a pistol and the whole armor
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Speaker 2: of God? I believe in both of them. Well, I
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Speaker 2: would just say, you know, the scripture I just cited,
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Speaker 2: you know, the scripture I just cited is evidence that
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Speaker 2: the apostles were always strapped at all times. It's not
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Speaker 2: about being strapped. It's about how you use it. So
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Speaker 2: that's number one. And number two, we do have the
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Speaker 2: arm of God, but it's nothing wrong with having protection too.
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Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Did you have to make good for some of the
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Speaker 1: things that you said you did coming up when you
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Speaker 1: were robbing, when you were selling drugs? Did you have
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Speaker 1: to make good to those people or did you try to?
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Speaker 2: Man, that's a darn good question, bro. Um, Sometimes I
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Speaker 2: feel bad about the lives that I ruined. You know,
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Speaker 2: I see the face of the last person I robbed
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Speaker 2: at gunpoint. I see the lives of women that I ruined,
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Speaker 2: abortions I paid for, all the things. And sometimes I
11:55
Speaker 2: feel guilty over those things. But like the Apostle Paul,
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Speaker 2: you know, the memory is a beautiful thing and it's
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Speaker 2: a dangerous thing. You know, with the memory, we remember
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Speaker 2: things that God has done and it gives us faith
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Speaker 2: for the future. But then with the memory, the devil
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Speaker 2: will persecute us over our past. And that's why the
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Speaker 2: Apostle Paul said, this one thing I do, I keep
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Speaker 2: forgetting what is behind me and I got to press
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Speaker 2: on towards what is ahead of me. So when those
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Speaker 2: things come back up, I just got to push them
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Speaker 2: to the past. I got to say, if it's under
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Speaker 2: the blood, man, it's been forgiven. And I got to
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Speaker 2: trust God that I have been forgiven. And I got
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Speaker 2: to do my best to walk in that forgiveness, even
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Speaker 2: though sometimes the hardest person to forgive is yourself. And
12:32
Speaker 2: I still struggle with that sometimes.
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Speaker 3: What have all those experiences taught you about God that
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Speaker 3: reading the Bible alone just never could?
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Speaker 2: Man, that's powerful. I think my experience has taught me
12:44
Speaker 2: that God can use anybody. You know what I'm saying?
12:48
Speaker 2: I went to Andrew Jackson High School in Queens. You
12:50
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? And I remember being in high school.
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Speaker 1: The first school metal detectors, by the way.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, first school metal detectors. 50 went to Jackson. And
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Speaker 2: matter of fact, 50 was a senior when I was
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Speaker 2: a freshman. When I got there, 50 was a senior.
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Speaker 2: I think he got kicked out, though, when I got there.
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Speaker 2: That was my zone school. Jackson's crazy. It's like one
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Speaker 2: of the worst schools in Queens. They had to shut
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Speaker 2: it down. I was afraid when I went there. You
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Speaker 2: know what I'm saying?
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Speaker 1: That's when LL Cool J took the cover.
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Speaker 2: When I first got there, I was afraid. Oh, all right.
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Speaker 1: He took the picture on LL Cool J's cover. He
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Speaker 1: was on the outside of Jackson.
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Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, I mean, I ain't going to say that
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Speaker 2: I act too tough. I was nervous when I went
13:18
Speaker 2: there because, you know, it was gully there, right? But
13:24
Speaker 2: one of the things it taught me was, like, God
13:27
Speaker 2: could really use anybody. You know what I'm saying? I
13:29
Speaker 2: remember when I was at Jackson, I was going to say,
13:30
Speaker 2: there was a security guard there. Like, she looked me
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Speaker 2: in my eyes. She was like, yo, Mitchell, you ain't
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Speaker 2: never going to mount to SHIT. There ain't going to
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Speaker 2: be nothing in your life. Like, look at you. You
13:38
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Boom, boom, boom, boom. So when
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Speaker 2: I look back on my life and my journey, I
13:44
Speaker 2: feel like if anybody gives God a committed yes, they
13:48
Speaker 2: have no idea what God would do with a life
13:50
Speaker 2: that's fully surrendered to him. Yeah, that's true. Some of
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Speaker 2: it is just my nature. You know what I mean? Like,
14:08
Speaker 2: I was already a bold person. I'm a very passionate person.
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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Like, my man MG is
14:13
Speaker 2: in the building. Shout out to MG. Like, he and
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Speaker 2: I was in the streets doing parties and all that stuff.
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Speaker 2: So I was already bold. I think what people forget is, like,
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Speaker 2: when God saves somebody, he doesn't, he redeems that person's nature.
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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I wasn't a coward in
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Speaker 2: the street. I'm not a coward in the kingdom. I
14:28
Speaker 2: had some boldness in the street. I have boldness in
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Speaker 2: the kingdom. But I want to say this because this
14:32
Speaker 2: is very important. If somebody listening right now, let's say,
14:34
Speaker 2: they're more introverted or they're more shy. And they looking
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Speaker 2: at me like, yo, I want to be bold like that.
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Speaker 2: I can't, but that's a lie. Obedience is bonus. And
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Speaker 2: anybody who's obedient is bold. So a shy person could
14:45
Speaker 2: be bold. An introvert could be bold. If you're obedient
14:47
Speaker 2: to what God is telling you, that is bonus.
14:50
Speaker 1: What do you say to people that, that criticize the
14:52
Speaker 1: way that you speak? It is not your typical type
14:54
Speaker 1: of sermon, right? You come from the street, you come
14:57
Speaker 1: from Queens. So you don't talk like you're what people
15:00
Speaker 1: are used to.
15:00
Speaker 2: What do you say to those individuals? I would say
15:02
Speaker 2: to them, they don't read. Um, I would say to them,
15:05
Speaker 2: I understand their critique of me. I think nobody is
15:08
Speaker 2: above critique, but I would encourage them to just read
15:10
Speaker 2: the scriptures. I mean, Jesus had a man who went
15:14
Speaker 2: before him as a forerunner. His name was John the Baptist.
15:17
Speaker 2: That dude outfit did not fit the culture of the day.
15:19
Speaker 2: His talk did not fit the culture of the day.
15:21
Speaker 2: His swag did not fit the culture of the day.
15:23
Speaker 2: They crucified him for the same thing, but yet that
15:25
Speaker 2: dude led a revival and had whole cities and nations
15:28
Speaker 2: going out to hear him preach. And so I would
15:30
Speaker 2: say to somebody, I don't have to be a mannequin.
15:32
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I don't have to look
15:33
Speaker 2: like another pastor. I want to be my authentic self.
15:37
Speaker 2: And I feel like God can't bless the person you
15:39
Speaker 2: pretend to be. I say that all the time.
15:40
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
15:41
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? He can't bless the person
15:42
Speaker 2: you pretend to be. And I was like that for
15:44
Speaker 2: a season, Envy. You know what I'm saying? There was
15:46
Speaker 2: a season I was wearing suits all the time. I
15:48
Speaker 2: sound like everybody else, try to be like everybody else.
15:51
Speaker 2: And at some point in time, I got wary. You
15:53
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Like, yo, being a phony is exhausting.
15:56
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? And I felt like there
15:58
Speaker 2: was a moment where I made a pivot. Like, you
15:59
Speaker 2: know what? I'm an urban dude. I'm going to dress
16:02
Speaker 2: like an urban dude. I'm just going to be my
16:04
Speaker 2: authentic self. And God blessed my authentic self. And I
16:07
Speaker 2: feel like, let me just say this too. I feel
16:10
Speaker 2: like any time we try to be a copycat of
16:11
Speaker 2: somebody else, we tell God he didn't know what he
16:14
Speaker 2: was doing when he created us. I think being a
16:17
Speaker 2: copycat is an insult to God. And so I think
16:20
Speaker 2: we got to learn to be our authentic selves inside
16:23
Speaker 2: the will of God and trust God to bless our
16:25
Speaker 2: authentic selves. I don't have to be the copy of
16:27
Speaker 2: another man to be somebody else. So I've been arrested
16:29
Speaker 2: multiple times. If anybody's been arrested, you know, they take
16:32
Speaker 2: your fingerprints. There ain't no two fingerprints alike on the
16:35
Speaker 2: whole planet. God did that on purpose. I don't know
16:37
Speaker 2: how fingerprints are different. Our identities in Christ, our unique wiring,
16:41
Speaker 2: that's different. So if I'm going to pretend to be
16:43
Speaker 2: somebody else, God can't bless that. Mm-hmm. And God really
16:46
Speaker 2: began to bless me when I just decided to be
16:48
Speaker 2: my authentic self.
16:49
Speaker 1: When you see people change their bodies, their faces, or
16:52
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, what is your thoughts, right? Because
16:54
Speaker 1: people will say that. Like, God made you this way.
16:56
Speaker 1: You should be happy with the way that God made you.
16:58
Speaker 1: But then people take it out of themselves to alter themselves.
17:01
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?
17:02
Speaker 2: You're talking about, like, tattoos and piercings and stuff? And
17:04
Speaker 2: when you say alter, what do you mean? All of
17:06
Speaker 2: the above.
17:06
Speaker 1: It could be from altering the way you look, your face,
17:08
Speaker 1: to even trans.
17:09
Speaker 2: Even Beijing. Even Beijing. Oh, my God, no. Just for
17:12
Speaker 2: being all of that? Altering yourself? I think he was
17:14
Speaker 2: talking about.
17:15
Speaker 4: That's an alteration you can wipe off, though.
17:17
Speaker 2: Thank you. Like, the rain, you're done.
17:18
Speaker 1: It doesn't come off in the rain, and it's just
17:20
Speaker 1: for men.
17:20
Speaker 2: It's not Beijing. Pause. Okay, I'm sorry. No, I think
17:25
Speaker 2: some of the alterations people do is because they have
17:27
Speaker 2: no sense of identity, and some of it is because
17:29
Speaker 2: people are longing for acceptance and they're addicted to the
17:32
Speaker 2: approval of others. And I think some of those alterations
17:35
Speaker 2: is rooted in brokenness. I'm not against, like, if you,
17:38
Speaker 2: you know, I got a whole sleeve on my arm.
17:41
Speaker 2: I got tats. You know, I got earrings. So I'm
17:43
Speaker 2: not against that stuff. But like the altering of your identity,
17:46
Speaker 2: some of that is just rooted in brokenness, bro. And
17:48
Speaker 2: we need healing. Some of people do the alteration. Some
17:50
Speaker 2: of that is because we got wounds from the past
17:53
Speaker 2: that have not been addressed. And we're trying to mask
17:55
Speaker 2: those wounds with all those external things, man. A lot
17:58
Speaker 2: of that is just people need healing. But I'm not
18:00
Speaker 2: their enemy. I'm not their judge. I'm just saying a
18:03
Speaker 2: lot of that is rooted in people just need healing.
18:04
Speaker 2: They need a true sense of identity. Do you think
18:07
Speaker 2: people are losing faith in God?
18:09
Speaker 3: Are they losing faith in the people who represent God?
18:12
Speaker 2: No, I think the biggest issue people have with faith
18:15
Speaker 2: is the people who represent him. And that's part of
18:17
Speaker 2: the reason why I wrote this book. Like one of
18:19
Speaker 2: the things I talk about in Content, it is a
18:21
Speaker 2: wake-up call for the church, right? There's a lot of
18:23
Speaker 2: people who are put off by the church. They're put
18:26
Speaker 2: off by all of the foolishness, the shenanigans, the grifting,
18:30
Speaker 2: the fleecing people for money. The manipulation, the emotional, they're
18:35
Speaker 2: tired of all that foolishness. At least let me just,
18:37
Speaker 2: like I got four kids, they're all Gen Z's, 21, 20, 16,
18:41
Speaker 2: and 14. 90% of the people that attend our church
18:44
Speaker 2: are millennials or Gen Z. I listen to them talk.
18:46
Speaker 2: They're fed up of all the nonsense. They're fed up
18:49
Speaker 2: of all of the pastors who are fake and phony.
18:51
Speaker 2: They're fed up of ministers grifting and taking. They're tired
18:54
Speaker 2: of that. And a lot of them, they can spot
18:55
Speaker 2: a phony from a mile away. They can swipe through
18:58
Speaker 2: TikTok and hear a phony from a mile away. So
19:00
Speaker 2: I think people have less of an issue with God
19:03
Speaker 2: I agree with you. They got an issue with the
19:04
Speaker 2: people that represent him. And part of my cry in
19:07
Speaker 2: this book content is also to spiritual leaders like me
19:11
Speaker 2: that we got to stop the nonsense. We got to
19:13
Speaker 2: take a stand for Jesus for real.
19:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, because when you run into people, of course you'll
19:18
Speaker 3: meet an atheist every now and then, but I know
19:20
Speaker 3: a lot of people who believe in God, they believe
19:21
Speaker 3: in Jesus, but they don't believe in the people who
19:23
Speaker 3: claim to represent God because those people don't live anything
19:27
Speaker 3: like him.
19:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think personally, whether it's a Christian or it's
19:31
Speaker 2: an attorney or anybody, When there is no congruence between
19:35
Speaker 2: what you say and what you live, you automatically lose credibility, right?
19:39
Speaker 2: So I think if a person's gonna have credibility and
19:41
Speaker 2: social equity in any space, it could be marketplace, it
19:45
Speaker 2: could be business, being a comedian, being on the radio,
19:48
Speaker 2: whatever you do, right? If you say one thing and
19:51
Speaker 2: you live another, you automatically lose social equity. So I
19:54
Speaker 2: think we gain equity with people when there's congruence between
19:57
Speaker 2: what we say and what we live. And I think
19:59
Speaker 2: that is even greater a demand upon people who claim
20:02
Speaker 2: to follow the Lord Jesus Christ. If you claim to
20:05
Speaker 2: follow Christ, then you've got to have a life that
20:06
Speaker 2: matches And that's part of my preaching. Don't talk Christ
20:09
Speaker 2: and not live Christ. If you're going to talk Christ,
20:11
Speaker 2: live Christ. Because there's too many people watching us and
20:13
Speaker 2: they don't want to do it without foolishness.
20:15
Speaker 5: People line up for hours and hours to get in
20:18
Speaker 5: to hear your messages. You feel like that straight cut through.
20:22
Speaker 5: I know you call it a cotton candy preaching or
20:25
Speaker 5: something like that. You said about how other people preach.
20:26
Speaker 5: Do you think that's why they're doing that? Because people
20:31
Speaker 5: argue whether it's about God and the message or whether
20:33
Speaker 5: people just, it's them following you.
20:35
Speaker 2: And idolizing you.
20:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
20:37
Speaker 2: So I think, let me just talk to you straight, right?
20:42
Speaker 2: Go ahead. People do line up for hours to get
20:45
Speaker 2: into our building. You know, they show up three o'clock,
20:48
Speaker 2: four o'clock in the morning, right? They're doing that because
20:51
Speaker 2: God is doing something in their hearts. And I feel
20:53
Speaker 2: like the ministry that I lead is a revival that
20:56
Speaker 2: God is doing in this generation. And I just get
20:59
Speaker 2: to steward it. I just, I'm a part of something
21:01
Speaker 2: God is doing that's much bigger than me. I can't
21:04
Speaker 2: stop people from idolizing me. I say this a billion
21:07
Speaker 2: times from my pulpit. Don't idolize me, right? I tell
21:11
Speaker 2: people all the time, you're not here for a man.
21:13
Speaker 2: You're here for the Lord Jesus Christ. I've done my
21:15
Speaker 2: part to communicate that over and over and over. I
21:17
Speaker 2: do think some of that talk around idolization or my
21:20
Speaker 2: name is an attack of the devil to get people
21:23
Speaker 2: to not say good things about what God is doing
21:25
Speaker 2: because there is a difference between idolization and admiration. There's
21:28
Speaker 2: nothing wrong admiring somebody who's doing something noble. But I
21:32
Speaker 2: think what the devil try to do is try to
21:34
Speaker 2: throw shade on our ministry by saying, oh, everybody's idolizing PM. No,
21:37
Speaker 2: everybody's not idolizing me. He used that so people would
21:40
Speaker 2: stop talking good about the ministry. So them people not
21:42
Speaker 2: lining up at three o'clock in the morning to idolize
21:44
Speaker 2: no man. If you came to our gathering, you wouldn't
21:47
Speaker 2: feel that on the inside. You know what you would feel?
21:49
Speaker 2: You'll feel the presence of God, the love of God,
21:51
Speaker 2: the power of God. You'll see people going after God,
21:54
Speaker 2: not going after me. I just come and do my
21:56
Speaker 2: part at the end. Long before people even sit in
21:58
Speaker 2: a seat, they're feeling his presence in the parking lot.
22:00
Speaker 2: And that's a true testimony from people who come. They're
22:02
Speaker 2: not there for me. They're there for the Lord. I'm
22:04
Speaker 2: just there to deliver the message. Yeah, I wonder why
22:06
Speaker 2: they even using that word.
22:08
Speaker 3: Why can't they just say, hey, people gravitate towards him
22:10
Speaker 3: because he's a good shepherd of God.
22:12
Speaker 2: He's a good messenger of God. Like he's delivering God's
22:15
Speaker 2: message in a way that I can understand. Why does
22:17
Speaker 2: it have to be that they're idolizing you? Man, I
22:19
Speaker 2: think some of that is an attack of the enemy
22:21
Speaker 2: and some of that is ignorance and some of that
22:23
Speaker 2: is jealousy. I just pray for all my enemies who
22:25
Speaker 2: talk like that. Yeah. Do you listen to gospel? That
22:32
Speaker 2: new Kirk Franklin. Kirk Franklin, Gorilla.
22:34
Speaker 4: You know, they just came out.
22:35
Speaker 2: With a bop. Yeah, shout out to Kirk. I know Kirk.
22:37
Speaker 2: I love him. No, I don't really listen to gospel
22:40
Speaker 2: like that. I listen to what's called instrumental worship. Mostly
22:44
Speaker 2: a dude named William Augusto. He's from Spain. Mm-hmm. I
22:47
Speaker 2: don't really listen to a lot of gospel music because
22:49
Speaker 2: I don't want people's words in my mind when I'm
22:51
Speaker 2: praying and stuff like that.
22:53
Speaker 4: Okay.
22:53
Speaker 2: So if I'm in my car for my prayer time,
22:55
Speaker 2: I listen to a lot of instrumental worship that has
22:57
Speaker 2: no words. I don't want no filter between me and
22:59
Speaker 2: God when I'm praying. Okay. Yeah.
23:02
Speaker 4: And do you have like a praise and worship segment
23:05
Speaker 4: at your sermons?
23:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So we do praise and worship at our church.
23:09
Speaker 2: It maybe lasts maybe about 45 minutes to an hour,
23:11
Speaker 2: and then I'll come behind that and preach. It's pretty dope, too.
23:14
Speaker 2: You should pull up on us when you're in Atlanta.
23:16
Speaker 4: Do you make up the songs?
23:17
Speaker 2: No, so no, no, no. We write our own songs,
23:20
Speaker 2: but we also sing songs that other people have written.
23:24
Speaker 2: The songs we sing, we want them to be vertical.
23:26
Speaker 2: That is, we want to sing songs that glorify Christ
23:28
Speaker 2: and not men. We want to sing songs that's not
23:30
Speaker 2: like Becky, not about like getting blessings and getting stuff
23:33
Speaker 2: from the Lord. So we sing songs that exalt the
23:35
Speaker 2: Lord Jesus Christ. Yeah, when you're ready, you holler at us.
23:38
Speaker 2: I'll bring you in. I got you. That could still
23:40
Speaker 2: be a blessing, though, if you're married and you know. What? Huh?
23:43
Speaker 2: What's that? Becky can still be a blessing if she's married. Oh, yo, like,
23:46
Speaker 2: let's keep it real. Like, I'm not going to be
23:47
Speaker 2: laying my wife and listening to Blessed Assurance. You know
23:50
Speaker 2: what I'm saying? I mean, we might throw on some,
23:53
Speaker 2: you know, some old school R. Kelly, whatever. You know
23:57
Speaker 2: what I'm saying? Back in the days. But, I mean,
23:58
Speaker 2: I'm not throwing on CC Wine and trying to have
24:00
Speaker 2: sex with my wife. Like, I've never done that. You
24:02
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Somebody going to crucify me for that.
24:05
Speaker 2: I've never done that. Yeah, you can't get no cheeks
24:07
Speaker 2: to alabaster box. You know what I'm saying?
24:10
Speaker 1: Come on.
24:11
Speaker 2: I mean, there's other instrumentals that could get me in
24:13
Speaker 2: the mood with my wife. You know what I mean?
24:14
Speaker 2: But I don't really need that to be in the
24:16
Speaker 2: mood with my wife. I'm attracted to her. So I
24:18
Speaker 2: just need to see her and I'm ready to go.
24:20
Speaker 2: You still listen to secular hip-hop? Nah, not really. I
24:23
Speaker 2: haven't listened to secular hip-hop in, like, over 20 years,
24:26
Speaker 2: so I can't even tell you who's hot and who's not.
24:27
Speaker 3: But even with 50 Cent saying I'm a mini-man, I know,
24:29
Speaker 3: you know, God protecting me, but I still sleep with
24:31
Speaker 3: my gat.
24:32
Speaker 2: That applies to you, man. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't
24:35
Speaker 2: tell you what's hot and what's not, but, I mean,
24:36
Speaker 2: if I hear poppin', my head's gonna bop. Like, if
24:38
Speaker 2: I'm somewhere, I hear Biggie, my head's gonna move. I
24:41
Speaker 2: like Jay. You know what I'm saying? So if I'm somewhere,
24:43
Speaker 2: I hear Jay, I hear Biggie, I hear Nas. The
24:45
Speaker 2: stuff I used to listen to, you know what I'm saying?
24:47
Speaker 2: My head gonna bop. I just don't buy that no more.
24:50
Speaker 2: But I'm not. You know what I'm saying? If it's on,
24:52
Speaker 2: you're going to see my head nodding. Right. You know
24:53
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, I still like the joint, but
24:55
Speaker 2: I just, I don't buy it. I couldn't tell you
24:57
Speaker 2: who's hot right now.
24:58
Speaker 3: How do you know when you're defending God's word versus
25:02
Speaker 3: defending your own interpretation of God?
25:05
Speaker 2: Man, that's a great question, bro. That's a tough thing, bro.
25:08
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I think it's tough because
25:12
Speaker 2: hermeneutics is a very difficult thing. Like, we have this Bible.
25:17
Speaker 2: It has 66 ancient documents in there that we believe
25:19
Speaker 2: were inspired, that God gave 40 writers over a period
25:22
Speaker 2: of 1,500 years. They spoke three different languages over three
25:26
Speaker 2: different continents, so we know it's inspired by God. But
25:29
Speaker 2: then a man has to pick that up and properly
25:30
Speaker 2: interpret that. I think no man could properly interpret the
25:33
Speaker 2: Bible if he's not filled with God's Spirit. And the
25:36
Speaker 2: Scripture teaches us that if we're going to understand the Bible,
25:38
Speaker 2: we've got to be filled with God's Spirit. The trouble
25:40
Speaker 2: is we have all these fault lines around doctrine and
25:42
Speaker 2: what we believe and all those things, and that's probably
25:44
Speaker 2: not going to go away. You know what I'm saying?
25:46
Speaker 2: But we just got to work through the minutia. Here's
25:49
Speaker 2: what I would tell you, right? The more truth you know,
25:53
Speaker 2: the easier it is to discern a lie. And so
25:56
Speaker 2: that's why I encourage people, don't just listen to me.
25:58
Speaker 2: Don't just listen to podcasts. Read the Bible for yourself.
26:01
Speaker 2: Listen to the Bible for yourself. The more of the
26:03
Speaker 2: word you have in you, the more you hear something
26:05
Speaker 2: social media like, nah, that's not accurate. I think the problem,
26:08
Speaker 2: we have a lot of false prophets, false preachers feeding
26:12
Speaker 2: people a lot of lies and delusions because we have
26:14
Speaker 2: a generation that don't read They don't want to read
26:16
Speaker 2: the scriptures for themselves, so they depend on preachers for
26:19
Speaker 2: all their theology instead of opening the book for themselves.
26:22
Speaker 2: God gave that book to humanity, not to PAM.
26:25
Speaker 1: I want to ask, so what do you say to
26:26
Speaker 1: those individuals that you see a lot more people leaving church?
26:29
Speaker 1: They say they're spiritual but not necessarily want to go
26:31
Speaker 1: to church because of what you're saying. They feel like,
26:34
Speaker 1: you know, a pastor is somebody that, I know you
26:36
Speaker 1: say don't look up to, but that they look up to.
26:38
Speaker 1: You see them doing the stuff that the pastor is
26:40
Speaker 1: telling them not to do, so it discourages a lot
26:42
Speaker 1: of people. What do you say to those individuals?
26:44
Speaker 2: I would say to the person, man, that's walked away
26:45
Speaker 2: from church, I would say, like, I feel you. And
26:49
Speaker 2: I understand because being hurt amongst church is real and
26:52
Speaker 2: it's legitimate. And I can understand why you would walk away,
26:56
Speaker 2: especially if you really believed in your leader and you
26:58
Speaker 2: found out your leader was phony or they had a,
27:01
Speaker 2: you know, something catastrophic happened in your life. You feel that.
27:03
Speaker 2: So I have to say to that person, I understand
27:05
Speaker 2: and I feel you. But then I would encourage them,
27:07
Speaker 2: you've been to bad doctors too, but you'll still go back,
27:10
Speaker 2: you know. And, you know, we've been to bad doctors.
27:13
Speaker 2: people in different industries, but we still go back. And
27:15
Speaker 2: I would encourage them, don't use your hurt as an
27:17
Speaker 2: excuse to stay away from the church forever. Some people,
27:20
Speaker 2: they use hurt as an excuse to never go back,
27:22
Speaker 2: and you do yourself a disservice in the process. My
27:24
Speaker 2: whole thing is, to be honest, bro, ain't no perfect pastor,
27:28
Speaker 2: no perfect church. It don't exist. And I think our
27:31
Speaker 2: expectations of church and pastors are unrealistic. Like, I'm a man.
27:35
Speaker 2: I'm sinful. I'm fallen. I still got darkness. I got
27:37
Speaker 2: to work out my own heart. I'm going to make mistakes.
27:40
Speaker 2: I got to apologize for that, right? And I've done
27:43
Speaker 2: that from the pulpit. But I think if we have
27:45
Speaker 2: an expectation of church to be perfect, you're going to
27:48
Speaker 2: be church hopping for the rest of your life. The
27:50
Speaker 2: truth is, to be honest with you, the church is
27:53
Speaker 2: a glorious mess. That's what it is. It is a
27:57
Speaker 2: collection of people who got issues like everybody in this
28:00
Speaker 2: room that's trying to follow a person who's perfect while
28:02
Speaker 2: we are not. So along the way, watch, you will
28:07
Speaker 2: get hurt in church. You will get offended. You will...
28:12
Speaker 2: Get rubbed wrong. The evidence of that is if people
28:15
Speaker 2: read the New Testament very slowly, there's teachings in there
28:18
Speaker 2: about how to have healthy conflict resolution. The fact that
28:23
Speaker 2: the Bible is full of teachings about how to have
28:25
Speaker 2: healthy conflict resolution is a sign to anybody who's a
28:29
Speaker 2: Christian that the Lord is telling you you're going to
28:31
Speaker 2: have beef with other Christians. But I've taught y'all how
28:34
Speaker 2: to resolve that beef when it happens.
28:36
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we fight against the version of Christianity
28:41
Speaker 3: we've created that doesn't always look like Jesus.
28:45
Speaker 2: So powerful. Or look like the Christianity that they told
28:48
Speaker 2: us is supposed to exist. Yeah, I think right now
28:51
Speaker 2: there's a whole emerging generation that's ascribing to a Christianity
28:54
Speaker 2: that's not biblical. And so part of my burden, my cry,
28:59
Speaker 2: part of this book is to try to wake up
29:02
Speaker 2: the body of Christ, but also try to pull people
29:04
Speaker 2: out of nonsense into the truth. And there is what
29:08
Speaker 2: I call a placebo, a fake pill. There is a
29:10
Speaker 2: version of Christianity that's disconnected from the scripture. Ultimately, you know,
29:14
Speaker 2: I hate to be the one, the bearer of bad news.
29:17
Speaker 2: But here's the truth, right? Like everybody could disagree and
29:20
Speaker 2: this person is a real church, that person is a
29:21
Speaker 2: fake church, all this other stuff. You know what we
29:24
Speaker 2: can agree about though, Charlemagne? Everybody in here is going
29:26
Speaker 2: to die. All of our bodies are going to end
29:29
Speaker 2: up in a box. And when we die, we're going
29:31
Speaker 2: to wake up on the other side of eternity. And
29:33
Speaker 2: on that day, there will be no disagreement. On the
29:36
Speaker 2: other side of eternity, everybody's going to be in perfect agreement.
29:38
Speaker 2: We will know who Jesus was. We will know that
29:41
Speaker 2: he was the son of God. We will know that
29:43
Speaker 2: he was the way, the truth, and the life. And
29:44
Speaker 2: on that day, all this nonsense will be put to bed.
29:46
Speaker 2: And so my prayer is for people who is ascribed
29:49
Speaker 2: into a false version of Christianity that they would come
29:52
Speaker 2: out of that nonsense before time has run out on them.
29:55
Speaker 2: Because when they take the last breath, there will be
29:57
Speaker 2: no more second chances, no more purgatory. There'll be no
30:00
Speaker 2: more God. Give me a second chance. That's it.
30:02
Speaker 1: You know, we were talking to D1.
30:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
30:04
Speaker 1: And he was talking about hell, right?
30:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
30:06
Speaker 1: And I don't know how we got to that conversation,
30:08
Speaker 1: but he was like, you know, some of these rappers
30:10
Speaker 1: are going straight to hell. And we pushed back on
30:13
Speaker 1: it saying, well, how do you know that? You know,
30:15
Speaker 1: how do you know what he did in his last minutes,
30:18
Speaker 1: his last moments? How do you know what that conversation
30:20
Speaker 1: with God's like? What are your thoughts on situations like that?
30:26
Speaker 2: So Jesus and the apostles, when they're alive, they taught
30:29
Speaker 2: that hell was a real place. Let's just put everybody
30:32
Speaker 2: out of it. Let's just take D1 out, take me out.
30:34
Speaker 2: Of course. Jesus, who was a historical figure, lived in
30:36
Speaker 2: the first century. D died in A.D. 33. He taught
30:40
Speaker 2: that hell was a real place. He taught that people
30:42
Speaker 2: are conscious when they're there. Right. And that they are
30:46
Speaker 2: aware where they are and they are aware that they're
30:48
Speaker 2: never going to get out. So, for example. Like, I
30:51
Speaker 2: know what it is to be betrayed. I don't know
30:52
Speaker 2: if anybody has ever been betrayed by somebody you love, right?
30:55
Speaker 2: So Jesus was betrayed by one of his closest men,
30:57
Speaker 2: a dude named Judas, right? According to history, Judas died.
31:01
Speaker 2: He did not make it into glory. So it's 2026.
31:04
Speaker 2: If that happened in the first century, that means Judas
31:07
Speaker 2: has been there for over 2,020 years. He's never going
31:10
Speaker 2: to get out. So let me just start by saying
31:12
Speaker 2: that Jesus taught that hell was a real place. It's
31:14
Speaker 2: not mythological. People are physically there. That's number one. How
31:18
Speaker 2: do we know who ends up there? I could tell
31:20
Speaker 2: you everybody's in hell right now. There are rich people there.
31:23
Speaker 2: There are famous people there. There are poor people there.
31:26
Speaker 2: There are fake Christians there. There are people from other
31:28
Speaker 2: religions there, white people there, black people there, Hispanic people there.
31:31
Speaker 2: And from every nation, tribe, and tongue, there are people there.
31:33
Speaker 2: The people who end up in hell are the ones
31:36
Speaker 2: who reject the Lord Jesus Christ and his message of hope.
31:38
Speaker 2: Jesus is the only safe passage out of this life
31:42
Speaker 2: according to his own words, not Philip's words, his words.
31:46
Speaker 2: And so we got to decide was he credible or not.
31:48
Speaker 2: If a person dies separated from Christ, according to his
31:52
Speaker 2: own words, they will be separated from God. And here's
31:54
Speaker 2: the thing. It's like this. It's like, yo, I don't
31:56
Speaker 2: believe that, okay? The Lord said something so controversial. It's
31:59
Speaker 2: controversial to this day, and I know we like drama
32:01
Speaker 2: in our culture. If he was alive, his Instagram would
32:04
Speaker 2: be blowing up. He said these words. I am the way,
32:09
Speaker 2: the truth, and the life. No one comes to the
32:12
Speaker 2: Father God but through me. The definitive articles are in
32:15
Speaker 2: his statement. The truth, the way. their life. Those definitive
32:20
Speaker 2: articles means there is no other way. There is no
32:22
Speaker 2: other truth. There is no other life. That means Jesus
32:25
Speaker 2: was saying he's the only path to God. And if
32:27
Speaker 2: we die apart from him, we're going to be separated.
32:29
Speaker 2: So here's what we all got to decide. Was he
32:31
Speaker 2: credible or was he not credible? Was he telling the
32:34
Speaker 2: truth or was he a liar? Now I'm going to
32:36
Speaker 2: say this to you, bro. You've been to a funeral before?
32:38
Speaker 2: Of course. You've been to a funeral, Charlemagne? My sister,
32:40
Speaker 2: you've been to a funeral? Yes. You've been to a funeral?
32:42
Speaker 4: Of course.
32:42
Speaker 2: Okay. Have you ever seen anybody come back from a funeral? No. Everybody,
32:46
Speaker 2: every funeral you've been to, that body's still in a box.
32:48
Speaker 2: You ain't never seen a family member come back for
32:50
Speaker 2: a funeral. If they did, how would that impact you?
32:54
Speaker 4: I wouldn't know what to do, to be honest.
32:56
Speaker 2: You would be rocked. Yeah. Right? So there was 500
32:59
Speaker 2: people who saw Jesus alive after his funeral. They wrote
33:03
Speaker 2: down eyewitness accounts that they saw him with their own eyes.
33:06
Speaker 2: They were rocked just like you said you would be rocked.
33:09
Speaker 2: He is the only progenitor of any religion on the
33:12
Speaker 2: planet that has seen their leader come back from the dead.
33:15
Speaker 2: No other progenitor has ever made that claim. So here's
33:18
Speaker 2: my thing. If a man could be killed and raised
33:22
Speaker 2: from the dead, I'm inclined to believe that man is credible.
33:25
Speaker 2: Everybody else got to make the decision for themselves. So
33:28
Speaker 2: hell is a real place. People are there, and the
33:31
Speaker 2: people are there, the ones who rejected the message of Jesus.
33:33
Speaker 2: I don't want that message, okay? You can know him
33:35
Speaker 2: today as a loving savior, or you're going to meet
33:37
Speaker 2: him later as a wrathful judge. You say, I don't
33:39
Speaker 2: believe that, okay? You'll believe that when you die, but
33:42
Speaker 2: there's no second chance. So I can't say who's in hell,
33:44
Speaker 2: who's not. But I can't say based on the scriptures.
33:46
Speaker 2: Those who rejected the message of the gospel, that's where
33:49
Speaker 2: they end up if they die. So my thing is
33:51
Speaker 2: if you breathe, then you still got hope.
33:53
Speaker 5: So repentance doesn't have a timeline for you. Because some
33:56
Speaker 5: people will argue that you repent and you have to...
33:59
Speaker 5: I mean, I know you say this too. You repent,
34:01
Speaker 5: you can't just apologize. You got to change your life.
34:03
Speaker 5: But what if I'm repenting in my last moments of
34:06
Speaker 5: my life? Is that enough change?
34:08
Speaker 2: Dang, that's so dope. Yo, so... So the Roman Empire
34:12
Speaker 2: had a form of capital punishment. You know, like we
34:14
Speaker 2: got capital punishment today. We like execute people, you know,
34:17
Speaker 2: with guns, needles, all the things. So during the days
34:20
Speaker 2: of the Roman Empire, they had a form of capital
34:22
Speaker 2: punishment where they would hang people up on crosses and
34:25
Speaker 2: they would line their bodies on the side of the street. Right.
34:28
Speaker 2: When Jesus was crucified, when he capital punishment, he was
34:32
Speaker 2: not killed by himself. He was killed with two men,
34:35
Speaker 2: one on the left, both thieves. Right. One of those
34:37
Speaker 2: dudes was mocking him, talking all this trash, talking out
34:40
Speaker 2: the side of his neck. The other dude looked at
34:41
Speaker 2: him like, listen, man, when you come to your kingdom,
34:46
Speaker 2: you'll just remember me when you get there. The Lord
34:49
Speaker 2: turned to that dude and looked him in his eyes.
34:51
Speaker 2: He said, you know what? Today, you're going to be
34:54
Speaker 2: with me in paradise. That dude was a murderer, a robber,
34:59
Speaker 2: and a thief. He had no time to go to
35:01
Speaker 2: a church. Did not exist. Did not go to mass.
35:03
Speaker 2: No time to read the Bible, any of that. He
35:06
Speaker 2: had no time to get baptized, any of that. He
35:08
Speaker 2: just repented in that moment. He's in heaven right now, right?
35:11
Speaker 2: So my whole thing is there are people like that
35:13
Speaker 2: that's there. They ain't had time to figure everything out.
35:16
Speaker 2: That dude ain't had time to figure out everything. What
35:18
Speaker 2: he did have was a moment of humility that changed
35:21
Speaker 2: the whole trajectory of his future. And that's what more
35:23
Speaker 2: people need, humility. It changed the whole trajectory of the
35:27
Speaker 2: eternal future.
35:29
Speaker 3: I guess my other question, to piggyback off what Lawrence said,
35:31
Speaker 3: how do you know when you've done enough to repent, right?
35:35
Speaker 2: Because every single one of us has sinned.
35:38
Speaker 3: According to scripture, I mean, pride, greed, lust, envy, sex
35:42
Speaker 3: before marriage, all of that.
35:44
Speaker 2: So how do you know when you've done enough?
35:45
Speaker 4: I'm talking about a second piece of cake.
35:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's dope. I think that's one of
35:52
Speaker 2: the most powerful questions anybody's ever asked me. Because before
35:56
Speaker 2: I was a Christian, I was in a formal religion.
35:58
Speaker 2: And I had somebody I was following that religion. And
36:02
Speaker 2: it made me feel like I could never do enough
36:04
Speaker 2: to please the false God that I was running after.
36:07
Speaker 2: And let me just say this, y'all. This is the
36:10
Speaker 2: problem with every religion in the world. Every religion in
36:13
Speaker 2: the world is people trying to get to a deity.
36:15
Speaker 2: So you never know when you've done enough. It keeps
36:18
Speaker 2: people bound and guilty and enslaved. Christianity is the only religion,
36:24
Speaker 2: faith in the world where you're not trying to get
36:27
Speaker 2: to God. God has come to us. in the person
36:30
Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ, and we will never do enough. Christ
36:33
Speaker 2: paid the price for you and I, Charlemagne. And if
36:36
Speaker 2: anybody placed their faith in him, all of our sins
36:38
Speaker 2: are forgiven. Watch these words. Past, present, future. So if
36:43
Speaker 2: it's under the blood, it is covered. You can never
36:45
Speaker 2: be enough to be accepted by God. Envy can never
36:49
Speaker 2: do enough to be accepted by God because if we could,
36:51
Speaker 2: peep game, we could then boast in our goodness. But
36:55
Speaker 2: the cross removes that from every man, rich and poor,
36:58
Speaker 2: so that in Christ, We all stand justified before God
37:02
Speaker 2: because we can't do enough. Christ paid that price for us.
37:05
Speaker 2: And peep game. After we get saved, we still going
37:07
Speaker 2: to commit sins. I still got bad thoughts. I still
37:10
Speaker 2: got to wring out my heart. But my sins are
37:12
Speaker 2: covered now because I'm in Christ. So we would never
37:15
Speaker 2: be enough. We would never do enough. That's why the
37:17
Speaker 2: scripture says in Isaiah, all of our good deeds we
37:19
Speaker 2: be trying to do, God sees them like filthy rags
37:23
Speaker 2: in his sight. Our good deeds will never be enough.
37:26
Speaker 2: So it is not trying to earn anything from God.
37:29
Speaker 2: I want to say to somebody listening right now, there's
37:30
Speaker 2: somebody right now who feel tired and worried trying to
37:32
Speaker 2: earn something from God. My sister, my brother, God loves you,
37:37
Speaker 2: has poured out his spirit on the earth for you,
37:40
Speaker 2: crucified his son for your salvation. You will never do
37:43
Speaker 2: enough to earn love from God. God has done the
37:46
Speaker 2: work for you. All you got to do is turn
37:47
Speaker 2: to him and receive that free gift of salvation. We
37:50
Speaker 2: can't do enough. Christ has done what we needed to do. Absolutely. Yeah.
37:54
Speaker 1: All right. Well, Let's close this out on a prayer, brother.
37:56
Speaker 2: Can we, please?
37:58
Speaker 1: Before we close out on prayer, there's one more thing
37:59
Speaker 1: that I wanted you to address because I've seen it online.
38:01
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
38:02
Speaker 1: I was doing my homework.
38:02
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
38:03
Speaker 1: People said they were mad at you for charging a
38:05
Speaker 1: VIP section at the church. Was that true? Or a
38:07
Speaker 1: Christian event?
38:08
Speaker 2: No. It's for the street preacher. And wine ain't cheap.
38:10
Speaker 2: It's for my podcast. I know, that's right. I know,
38:12
Speaker 2: that's right.
38:12
Speaker 1: Okay. I'm playing with a camera now.
38:17
Speaker 2: I know, that's my thing.
38:21
Speaker 1: This guy's crazy. No, I....
38:24
Speaker 2: I'm a pastor, but I also got a podcast outside
38:27
Speaker 2: of my church. My church has put on things like
38:31
Speaker 2: we just did a prayer gathering at AT & T
38:33
Speaker 2: Stadium when the Dallas Cowboys played yesterday. Sorry. Access. Access.
38:37
Speaker 2: 80,000 people.
38:38
Speaker 1: Sorry, when the Cowboys play.
38:40
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. But hopefully they might win now. But listen
38:43
Speaker 2: to what I'm saying. Let me just say this. We
38:47
Speaker 2: spent $ 3 million to do that. We didn't charge nobody
38:49
Speaker 2: to get in. I didn't take them to offering. I
38:52
Speaker 2: didn't even promote my book, right? Last year we did
38:55
Speaker 2: the same thing, spent $ 1. 5 million to do that State
38:57
Speaker 2: Farm Arena. Ain't charged nobody to get in, ain't take
39:00
Speaker 2: up no offer, ain't promote nothing because I'm not a grifter.
39:02
Speaker 2: That's 2019. 2019 is a well-funded organization because of the
39:07
Speaker 2: generosity of people who believe in the mission of Jesus Christ.
39:10
Speaker 2: My podcast is separated from 2019. I got to fund
39:13
Speaker 2: that with my own pocket. So if my man and
39:15
Speaker 2: I are traveling around the country trying to share a message,
39:18
Speaker 2: how are we going to pay for venues, flights, hotels, security, insurance?
39:24
Speaker 2: Like our last tour, 119 flights, 64 hotels. You know
39:26
Speaker 2: what I'm saying? Got a team of like 19, 20.
39:30
Speaker 2: How are we supposed to pay for all of that?
39:32
Speaker 2: Some people not thinking. The ticket price is to cover
39:36
Speaker 2: all that stuff we got to pay for to get
39:37
Speaker 2: to these places. The VIPs, because people don't read, is
39:40
Speaker 2: not a very important person. It's volunteer initial pavers. That
39:44
Speaker 2: VIP ticket, a higher price, allowed us to allow teenagers
39:48
Speaker 2: and young people to come in Only $ 20. So they
39:52
Speaker 2: offset the price for other people who can't afford to
39:54
Speaker 2: get in. It's not VIP to meet me. It's called
39:58
Speaker 2: volunteer initial pay for somebody else paving the way for
40:02
Speaker 2: someone who can't afford to get in there. So if
40:04
Speaker 2: they got a problem with me selling tickets, I just
40:06
Speaker 2: say to them, they pay for Beyonce tickets. They pay
40:10
Speaker 2: to go see Jay at the baseball. Some of the
40:12
Speaker 2: same people that persecute me be spending tickets to go
40:15
Speaker 2: see everything else. But I got a ticket so I
40:17
Speaker 2: can cover my costs. And they want to crucify me
40:20
Speaker 2: for that. I pray for them, bro. I didn't make
40:22
Speaker 2: a big bag on my podcast tour. Come on, man.
40:24
Speaker 2: We barely breaking even. I'm doing what's necessary to get
40:26
Speaker 2: into a room. $ 60? They're going to spend $ 60 at
40:30
Speaker 2: their next meal. You can't spend $ 60 to come here, Truth.
40:33
Speaker 2: And last thing I say, if you got a beef
40:34
Speaker 2: with $ 60, then don't pay it. You're going to watch
40:37
Speaker 2: the content for free on YouTube anyway. You know what
40:40
Speaker 2: I'm saying? So it's like people critique what they don't understand,
40:42
Speaker 2: and they critique people they're jealous of. Why not take
40:45
Speaker 2: up a love offering, though? Like even at those events,
40:47
Speaker 2: like a good... We know the pastor got to live.
40:50
Speaker 2: To my podcast? Or at the church? At the place
40:53
Speaker 2: you said you didn't take the time. To my access? Yeah.
40:56
Speaker 2: You think they mad at his ass? It's all good.
40:59
Speaker 3: We know the pastor has to live. We know the
41:05
Speaker 3: pastor has to travel. So why not take up a
41:07
Speaker 3: love offering?
41:09
Speaker 2: I just don't want to do it. I don't want
41:10
Speaker 2: to take up an offering for a prayer gathering. I
41:13
Speaker 2: feel like putting money around prayer to me is kind
41:15
Speaker 2: of foul. I'm just not going to do it. I
41:17
Speaker 2: just got to trust God to provide for us. I
41:19
Speaker 2: believe there's enough people in Atlanta and around the country
41:21
Speaker 2: who believe in what we're doing, and they're the ones
41:24
Speaker 2: that make it possible for us to do that. So
41:26
Speaker 2: what we did yesterday, 80,000 people at AT & T Stadium,
41:29
Speaker 2: that $ 3 million we spent to do that, that's a
41:31
Speaker 2: single mom who believe. That's a businessman who believe. You know,
41:35
Speaker 2: that's a young dude who believe. They say, I'm going
41:36
Speaker 2: to skip this meal at Chipotle. I'm going to sell
41:39
Speaker 2: this $ 20. They made it possible for us to do that.
41:41
Speaker 2: I'm just not a... I'm going to keep it 100.
41:45
Speaker 2: I'm just not like... I'm not the money dude. As
41:47
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, I do a terrible job raising money.
41:51
Speaker 2: It's one of the weakest parts of my ministry. If
41:54
Speaker 2: you ever watch me on Sunday, I don't even take
41:55
Speaker 2: up offerings. Where'd y'all get the $ 3 million to do
41:58
Speaker 2: the event? From the generous giving of people who believe
42:01
Speaker 2: in our ministry, the local disciples of 2019 in Atlanta,
42:05
Speaker 2: and the digital disciples across the country and around the world.
42:07
Speaker 2: And truth be told, we don't handle big donors. I've
42:10
Speaker 2: seen somebody on TikTok trying to say some big donor
42:13
Speaker 2: sponsored the joint They talk about all this Illuminati conspiracy.
42:18
Speaker 2: These are lies and stupidity. If you go check our records, $ 20, $ 25, $ 40, $ 10,
42:25
Speaker 2: some single mother, $ 5, $ 8. It's us being a good
42:29
Speaker 2: steward of all those little gifts coming in to do
42:31
Speaker 2: things like what we did yesterday.
42:33
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, this is my last question. You're not asking
42:37
Speaker 4: for love offerings or just the fact that you don't
42:39
Speaker 4: even ask for offering at your service. Is that Is
42:42
Speaker 4: that still a piece of you from the street that's like,
42:44
Speaker 4: I never asked somebody for anything. So, like, is that
42:47
Speaker 4: what you're wrestling with?
42:48
Speaker 2: It's really my father-in-law before he died, my wife's father.
42:52
Speaker 2: He said, man, just preach the truth. Preach the gospel
42:55
Speaker 2: and love people and just trust God to provide for you.
42:57
Speaker 2: So I just go by that. I'm just not going
42:59
Speaker 2: to be the money dude. I'm not going to be
43:00
Speaker 2: the one manipulating people for money. If we can't afford
43:03
Speaker 2: to do it, we don't do it. And what we
43:05
Speaker 2: do do, we trust God to provide. And I'm going
43:07
Speaker 2: to stand by that motto. and try to get as
43:09
Speaker 2: far as I can without trying to manipulate people for money.
43:12
Speaker 2: I'm just not that dude.
43:14
Speaker 1: Let's close out on a prayer, brother.
43:15
Speaker 2: You going to let me pray on the platform, bro?
43:17
Speaker 1: Yes.
43:17
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
43:18
Speaker 1: We need it.
43:19
Speaker 2: I have one more before you go.
43:20
Speaker 1: I have one more.
43:22
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you about, I saw your sermon
43:23
Speaker 5: or the conversation that went viral about the police brutality
43:26
Speaker 5: and then the apology.
43:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:28
Speaker 5: How do you reckon with your discipline and obedience and
43:31
Speaker 5: how you've come up with the things you've been through with,
43:33
Speaker 5: you know, what people expect of you now or just,
43:35
Speaker 5: you know, like how people... feel about everything that you're
43:37
Speaker 5: saying and you being the pastor and talking about God
43:40
Speaker 5: and all of it, too.
43:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to say I think nobody's above critique.
43:45
Speaker 2: I'm not above critique. I think when we make mistakes,
43:47
Speaker 2: we got to own them. And I teach my sons
43:50
Speaker 2: and I teach my staff, when you make a mistake,
43:52
Speaker 2: don't make excuses. Just own it. I made a mistake
43:54
Speaker 2: that day. You know, we in New York right now. Like,
43:57
Speaker 2: in Queens, I was walking up to Hollis Ave. I
43:59
Speaker 2: was on Hollis with my moms. A cop made eye contact,
44:03
Speaker 2: jumps out the car, comes around the block, slams me
44:06
Speaker 2: up against the wall, put the gun to the back
44:07
Speaker 2: of my head, like, yo, say something. Ain't no phone
44:10
Speaker 2: back in them days. Ain't nobody recording. If I want
44:12
Speaker 2: to get gullied in that moment, I'm not going home
44:14
Speaker 2: in that moment. I have a bullet in the back
44:16
Speaker 2: of my head. So I chose to just watch his words,
44:18
Speaker 2: submit to the authority at the time so I could
44:21
Speaker 2: save my life. I try to tell that story in
44:23
Speaker 2: the sermon. I preach three times every Sunday. We was
44:27
Speaker 2: in a brand-new building. It was my first time preaching
44:29
Speaker 2: in that building. I didn't like the sound. I had
44:31
Speaker 2: not slept the night before. I'm tired, I'm weary, and
44:33
Speaker 2: I'm frustrated. So I tell the story wrong. People get hurt.
44:37
Speaker 2: They get offended. Watch. And they had a right to be.
44:40
Speaker 2: I told the story wrong. That's why I issued a
44:43
Speaker 2: public apology. Preachers make mistakes. We're not perfect. We're not God.
44:47
Speaker 2: My whole thing is that when you see a man
44:49
Speaker 2: owning his crap and apologizing, you'll give that man some grace.
44:53
Speaker 2: He's trying. You know what I'm saying? So I made
44:55
Speaker 2: a mistake. But I still stand on the message I
44:57
Speaker 2: was preaching was we need to be submitted to biblical
45:00
Speaker 2: authority and authorities of the land because the scripture teaches
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Speaker 2: us to do that. I just didn't package that right.
45:05
Speaker 2: So I made a mistake. So I still make mistakes
45:07
Speaker 2: to this day. And if I make a mistake on
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Speaker 2: the pulpit, if I hurt somebody, I will take ownership
45:12
Speaker 2: for my crap and I will apologize for it. I'm
45:15
Speaker 2: not going to run from the mistakes that I made.
45:17
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to ask you a question. This
45:20
Speaker 2: is my question to you before we pray. Who would
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Speaker 2: you trust? Someone who has a veneer of perfection, a
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Speaker 2: person who pulls back the curtain so you can see
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Speaker 2: the humanity and say, man, I messed up in this area,
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Speaker 2: but God is still working on me. Who are you
45:31
Speaker 2: going to trust?
45:31
Speaker 5: A person who pulls back the curtain.
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Speaker 2: There you go. So I have no problem pulling back
45:35
Speaker 2: my currency. I've messed up in this area, made mistakes
45:37
Speaker 2: over here. I've learned from this. And at the end
45:39
Speaker 2: of the day, this is for everybody. All of us
45:42
Speaker 2: in this room going to make mistakes. And then we
45:44
Speaker 2: got a choice to make. Every time we make a mistake,
45:46
Speaker 2: it could either be a coffin that buries you or
45:49
Speaker 2: a classroom that teaches you. That moment was a classroom
45:52
Speaker 2: that taught me that because so many people listen to me,
45:55
Speaker 2: I got to be more mindful of my words. So
45:58
Speaker 2: when I make mistakes, I don't let them be coffins
46:00
Speaker 2: that bury me. I let them be classrooms that teach me.
46:03
Speaker 2: And I write about that in my book, too. And
46:05
Speaker 2: I just pray everybody go get a copy. It drops
46:06
Speaker 2: tomorrow everywhere books are sold. Or they can go to
46:09
Speaker 2: my website, contentbook.com. But I talk about all that. I
46:12
Speaker 2: got a whole chapter here about a five-year battle with
46:14
Speaker 2: depression and learning how to work through some of my
46:16
Speaker 2: issues from the past. And I believe it's going to
46:18
Speaker 2: encourage a lot of people if they read it. I
46:20
Speaker 2: do want to ask you real quick. You said biblical authority.
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Speaker 2: We should follow it.
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Speaker 3: But the Bible was also used to control and justify
46:26
Speaker 3: the enslavement of African people.
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Speaker 2: So what do you say to that? Scripture, I think,
46:30
Speaker 2: is like slaves obey your master. Yeah, in Ephesians, yeah.
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Speaker 2: I think, unfortunately, people in their sinful nature use the
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Speaker 2: Bible to enslave others and to enslave people's minds, and
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Speaker 2: I would say it was wrong for them to do that.
46:44
Speaker 2: We know that slavery is one of the greatest blights
46:46
Speaker 2: in American history. It was sinful. And so I would
46:49
Speaker 2: not be able to— I' m not going to sanction what they did.
46:52
Speaker 2: What they did was wrong, and people should repent for
46:54
Speaker 2: doing stuff like that. We should not use the Bible
46:56
Speaker 2: to control and manipulate minds. That is not what it's
46:58
Speaker 2: there for. It's there to lead us to God, lead
47:00
Speaker 2: us to Christ, and lead us into the best life
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Speaker 2: possible in whatever state God has us in. So I
47:06
Speaker 2: would agree with you it was wrong.
47:08
Speaker 1: All right, well, now let's close out on prayer.
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Speaker 2: You really going to let me pray on the platform? Absolutely. Word.
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Speaker 2: Eternal God and ever wise Father, we thank you for
47:18
Speaker 2: the opportunity you created for us to have this conversation
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Speaker 2: around my book, Contend, and for me to have this
47:23
Speaker 2: conversation with my brothers and my sisters today. We pray
47:26
Speaker 2: that this conversation will be influential and it will be
47:28
Speaker 2: a blessing to those who are listening. I pray for
47:31
Speaker 2: the person who's far away from you, that you would
47:33
Speaker 2: draw them to yourself. You reveal Christ to them and
47:36
Speaker 2: they will know Christ as a loving savior in this life.
47:39
Speaker 2: I pray for those who are already saved, who are Christians,
47:42
Speaker 2: that you will convict us all of the lifestyle and
47:45
Speaker 2: the way that we live that turns other people away.
47:47
Speaker 2: I pray you set the church on fire and awaken
47:49
Speaker 2: your bride in this hour. And I pray for the
47:51
Speaker 2: men and women who are in the studio. I pray blessing,
47:55
Speaker 2: and favor over them, that they are prosper and thrive
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Speaker 2: in their industries, in the works of their hands, and
48:00
Speaker 2: that they will know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior.
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Speaker 2: I ask this in the mighty, in the majestic, in
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Speaker 2: the matchless name of our soon-coming King, the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Speaker 5: Amen.
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Speaker 2: Amen.
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Speaker 1: Pastor Phillip Anthony Mitchell, thank you, brother. Contenders out right now.
48:14
Speaker 1: Pick it up.
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Speaker 2: It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning.