Latest / Mothering / S1Ep1 | Lindsay - Freelancer/Contractor, High achieving career woman, ADHD, Anxiety, Postpartum Depression, Miscarriage, Ectopic pregnancy.

Transcript

S1Ep1 | Lindsay - Freelancer/Contractor, High achieving career woman, ADHD, Anxiety, Postpartum Depression, Miscarriage, Ectopic pregnancy. · Mothering

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: The struggles that I went through were all mental.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've never felt that level of anxiety before.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Where I remember sitting there with my doctor, and I was like, I have no control over anything that's going on in my life right now.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: You go away on maternity leave and you go back to work.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing there has changed, really.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: But you have fundamentally changed.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: From a biological level, as we know, but as well as just from a values level and just who you are intrinsically as a person has completely changed.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: No matter how much support you have from friends, family, your partner, you'd have the most supportive partner in the entire world.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: You are going through that journey alone because that child needs you and you alone, and you are the only one that can provide what they need as a mother.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Mothering Podcast, and I'm your host, Carly.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode I sit down with women who speak honestly about their life-changing transition into motherhood and what becoming a mother actually feels like.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Please be mindful when little ears are listening to this podcast, as we can get a bit sweary and vibrant.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: One last notice to say that this is an inclusive space.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: While we touch on a lot of physical and psychological changes that the female body goes through immatrescence, the use of the term mother can encompass any person who identifies as a mother and takes on that extremely important and nurturing role.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the very first episode of Mothering.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I sat down with Lindsay, who works both as a mother to her 15-month-old daughter, and in various roles, including within the film and television industry.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: We dived straight into the deep anguish about having to return to work and commence childcare while her baby was still small.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Discussing the mismatch of maternity leave, which ends at six months, which is right at the point where our babies are craving closeness and attachment.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay talks about being a high achiever and how this plays into the experience of becoming a mother.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: She shares her experience of miscarriage at a young age and how that changes her trajectory of her life.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay also talks about her struggles with mental health in pregnancy, centered around concerns about genetic abnormalities early on, and also receiving medical advice to stop her ADHD medication cold turkey.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay touches on the experience of her partner developing postpartum depression, otherwise known as paternal postpartum depression, and how that affected her experience of becoming a mother.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is jam-packed with so many vulnerable topics.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're gonna love it.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the mothering podcast, Lindsay.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to tell everyone who's in your family, where you're living, what does mothering look like for you at the moment?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: At the moment is a good one.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: My name's Lindsay.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: In my family, we have my husband and my daughter.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: She is 14 months, almost 15 months.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Side note, I never thought I'd be one of those parents that like categorizes in months after 12 months.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: But they change so much from month to month.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I never I never thought I'd totally.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: She's she is 14 months now.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we currently reside in Kensington, Australia, which is a suburb of Melbourne, and it is the most beautiful suburb, especially for city kids like us.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: We are still very close to all of the action, yet feels like this purposeful little pocket of neighborhood with lots of parks and um walkways, and so it's it's really lovely.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Mothering at the moment for me is I mean, it's always a full-time gig, right?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm gonna go with saying it's a little bit part-time.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason I say that is because she's in childcare now, so we have some some time back.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the parenting between my partner and I is is pretty split even at the moment as well, which is amazing because you know, like anyone, it's it doesn't start out that way.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a really incredible place to be in right now where I really feel like we're a unit and a team, which is awesome.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so are you doing any work at the moment outside of mothering?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm one of those people that always has a few things on the go.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I am a contractor or I work freelance, and I know that sounds a bit wanky, but it's it's just because I just have a a lot of different passions and I like to do things.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So right now I'm currently working on three different projects, for example, but it's very part-time at the moment.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've only worked part-time since having Lucy, haven't been able to dive quite yet into full-time.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've been very reluctant and too scared to, to be honest.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I am ramping up in the next couple weeks to four days a week, officially.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we will see how that goes.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very nervous as it is, and I was trying to explain to somebody your work doesn't change, you know, and and I think anyone can relate to this, right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you've been at the same company for 10 years, you go away on maternity leave and you go back to work, nothing there has changed really, but you have fundamentally changed from a biological level, as we know, but as well as just from a values level and just who you are intrinsically as a person has completely changed.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I you feel a little bit like a fish out of water sometimes, I think.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I've I've felt that a lot in the workplace since going back, since having her.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been an interesting that I'm sure we'll dive into it deeper.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like on that note, that there is little to no support from workplaces at the moment, or ever has been, for mothers returning to work.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no acknowledgement of that huge shift that you've actually been through, and that leaving your child with someone else is at times heartbreaking, horrific.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And your brain is so preoccupied with other things, it's difficult to come to work as your old self.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Impossible, really.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: I agree wholeheartedly, and it's hard because two things can be true at the same time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can sit there and your heart can be breaking, but at the same time you have this desire to prove to everyone that you that you your value in the workplace also.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I'm an independent lady and and and I can still do this and I can be this.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: But then at the same time, you're like, but I just want to be a trad wife.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, not to that extreme, maybe, but all I want to do is just be with my child, though, because it's such a privilege.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And how cool is it to be able to see them grow and change and everything.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's this you know, I I love the women's rights movements, I love feminism and everything, but sometimes I'm like, you know, dang, it would it'd be nice to just be able to be at home sometime, so and also just be there because that I feel like speaks to just where I'm at in my life right now, too.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: And not everyone is there, not everyone feels that way, and that's so fine on everyone's journey.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: But that was something that I think caught me off guard a little bit, to be honest.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have to agree with you.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I feel similar in that sense, and it's funny before you have kids, you think you'll have a baby and life will continue and you'll go back to work.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that we're not told about or perhaps even lied to about is that our entire brain and nervous system are changing without us even having any control over it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we're expected to just pick up and be placed back into that cog where we left off.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's uh It is impossible.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: This message that we've been sold that you can you can do it all.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there is a really small handful of women that can do it all.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember when I was pregnant with my first baby, I someone actually told me, you can have it all, just not at the same time.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was literally about to say that I you can have it all.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not at the same time in in your life.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think once I heard that, I was like, oh yeah, that resonates better.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: That makes more sense.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that took it took a lot of pressure off, to be honest, as well with you.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just for me, I was like, mm, yeah, okay.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not my time right now to do those things anymore, or to to to be that person in other people's lives anymore.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: My nucleus is here, my my focus is here now.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's no longer out and here.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been the type of person my whole life that is a high achiever, and by that I mean, you know, type A, first in, last out at work, you know, love to cross things off of a to-do list.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when you become a mother, there it you how do you do that?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna cross off of a list?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: They grew a tooth, they they they breathted okay this time, they latched really well.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you you can't do that?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to rewire my brain as well as how I looked at success because I was equating success and worth with productivity, which I think a lot of people of our generation do.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to I had to rewire my brain in those first six months to and it yeah, it's it's a lot.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to it's hard to come to terms with those things.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the world we live in.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're here to be productive and move forward, and motherhood is the complete opposite.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is not linear, it is up and down and round and round, and you have good weeks, you have bad weeks, you have good years, you have bad years, and there is no mechanism to track your productivity in that perhaps having a healthy, happy child, but you don't really reap the benefits of that until years down the line.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you also don't know what that looks like all the time because you're sitting there going, my kids got snot all over their face, you know, dirt under their fingernails, I you know, they they're running around like a like a banshee kind of thing or something, and and you're like, oh my god, I'm failing at this.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then someone turns around and goes, they're they're so happy and so assured in who they are.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, oh yeah, they are, aren't they?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is happiness to them.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is that's what that looks like.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm doing okay.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: But how do you know?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: You don't you don't know you're doing okay the you know the entire time?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a wild, yeah, wild process.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: There really should be an educational class or something and a certificate you have to do before you get pregnant.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: There should be a license for that.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: A 30-year-long course of how to raise children.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Something.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Were you one of those people that always wanted children, or was it something that you were unsure about?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit of a long story.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a lot of phases in my life, is what I'm gonna say.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as everyone can tell, I'm American originally, and growing up there my family's from Texas.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so what that means when I say my family is from Texas is there are Texas expectations and values in that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And some of those values and some of those, you know, the the social lens that's there is I was never I was never encouraged to have a career.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was never told I was like smart really growing up.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was told I was pretty, told I was beautiful, you know, that that I was polite, that I had good manners and things like that.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was never discouraged either, but it was never something that was really fostered in me.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So growing up, coming out of high school, for example, or secondary school here, yeah, of course I of course I want to have kids.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: What what else would I be doing?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm supposed to be a wife and I'm supposed to be a mother.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's my calling in life.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: When I was 19, I had a had a very nice boyfriend who was a few years older than me, and we accidentally got pregnant because you know he didn't believe in birth control and he was the man of the house, and so I I let that control me a bit.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got pregnant, and I miscarried at 10 weeks, and it was one of the most traumatic yet beautiful blessings that have ever happened in my life.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Traumatic because even though I was only 19, I sat there and I was like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to do with my life.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I was committed to this and I and I started reading the books and we started doing everything.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And when I miscarried, I miscarried it was a what do they call it, a missed miscarriage or a missed missed miscarriage, I guess is what it's called.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what they call it, yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so your body has miscarried, but you haven't passed anything, and so I had no idea.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I went in for my first ultrasound, excited and everything, and then I and that's how I found out.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, that's not a baby, and I was like, what?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then a few hours later, my body, once my brain understood, my body started passing everything, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it was traumatic because I felt a loss, a real sense of loss through that.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I say it's the one of the best things to have happened in my life because what it did is it allowed me to think, okay, well, what else is there?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't do this, what else is there in life that I'm doing?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: What if what am I actually missing a little bit?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it started to get me thinking, like, oh, well, maybe I should be doing other things.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: So so then I started going to school and and then I excelled at university, and then and then I started to be able to have a career, and I was and I moved out, you know, to a different state, and and that led me to you know, LA and New York, and that led me to Australia.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I would not have everything that I have and be a fulfilled person and a well-rounded person if that had happened at that point in my life.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was such a an amazing lesson for that moment.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And because I worked hard to become something and and become who I'm supposed to be, I was very determined to never get pregnant until I was ever ready again.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I never really felt ready.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So after that experience, I was very like, I don't know, maybe one.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I was so scared to lose my sense of self that I always felt very fiercely protective of that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, fast forward 12 years later, I meet my now husband, and we always kind of said to each other, maybe one.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe if it happens, cool, but I don't want to push it, maybe one.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: He then got pregnant on accident as well, again, on birth control, and it was an atopic pregnancy.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, I literally said to myself, Oh, thank God.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie, thank God, because we weren't ready as a couple, but I knew he was my person to do it with, but we weren't ready together.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so we went through that, and then we kind of both sat there going, We're just not ready in life right now, we're too young.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then mind you, I was in my 30s, but I was like, No, I'm too, I'm a child still.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we said, no, no, no, no, no, no kids.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Then I turned 38 and I sat there and I went, What's the next chapter of my life look like?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm starting to approach a new decade.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: What does my 40s look like?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my 20s were very figuring out who I am as a person and defining that my 30s were about establishing myself and and making my home and really being rooted and secure in who I am as a person.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: What are my 40s gonna look like?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Am I still gonna be doing you know what we're doing?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's fine, it's a nice life.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, am I still gonna be, you know, hung over on a Sunday at 50?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I think maybe there might be a little bit more.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we started having conversations, we started talking about it, and I said, I know I said no, but I'm thinking maybe yes now.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about it.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about it for a year and we came to the decision that yes, let's do this, let's try.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: We'll try for four months and we'll just see what happens.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I at this point I was like, okay, well, I might not be able to get pregnant, it just might not be for me.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was okay with that, but I wasn't okay with going through menopause and never trying.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: So we tried, and I hate to say it because I know there's so many people that don't have this story, but we got pregnant the first month.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it was amazing.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was successful.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a successful pregnancy, obviously, because we now have a baby.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: It has always made me feel like I'm on the back foot because I was almost ready to not be able to get pregnant, and then I was like, oh god, okay, no, it's happening.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: So and then she came early.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's common actually.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: When people get pregnant the first go, I think it's very common to feel like, oh shit, this is happening way quicker than I expected.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And now I, you know, I was prepared.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was similar, although it I think it took us maybe it was the second time, the second try.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, I was I was expecting six months, and now I have to kind of think about the fact this is all gonna happen much sooner.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's work to reframe.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it's a reframe because you're you're sitting there preparing your you're preparing yourself for the the disappointment every month and the heartbreak every month of not you know being pregnant, or or you're preparing yourself for miscarriages or or something like that.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then yeah, that doesn't happen, and it is that reframe in your mind where you're like, I know this is a blessing, but I just wasn't ready for it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't ready for this this blessing in my life.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to touch on how beautiful it is that you've had multiple pregnancies, and the time you felt ready was the time that it all just worked.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, and I could not be more grateful for that, to be honest, because that's why I said I know it's not a lot of people's story, and so I'm very mindful of that, and I'm very grateful of that, and it's yeah, she she she wanted to be here, she was meant to be, you know, she pretty much kicked the door open to be here, so that's so good.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, motherhood I guess starts in pregnancy and birth, really.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you want to touch briefly on how your pregnancy and birth went?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, lightly or deeply, however, however you want to approach that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: I did not like pregnancy.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: I did not subscribe.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted, I so wanted to be one of those women that was like, I love my body, and look at what this is amazing thing that it's doing, and all of this.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I love those women.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was not that person at all.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Firstly, I have ADHD, and I've been medicated, you know, for a lot of my adult life, and when you get pregnant, you have to go off of your medication, like the day you get pregnant.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: The reason is because it's a stimulant.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: So for those that don't know, it's a stimulant, and it can affect how the baby's heart is actually made and developed.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why you have to you're advised, I should say, to not continue with your medication.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I stopped cold turkey my medication that day, and I was like, yep, done, we're done with that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I did not anticipate the mental health journey that I was about to go on.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: From an outsider's point of view, I had a pretty easy pregnancy, and by that I mean um, you know, I was glowing, I didn't have complications when it came to diabetes or preclampsia.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even have nausea or or anything like that.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: I had a bit of heartburn or something.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the struggles that I went through were all mental.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that is something that I had no concept of going into it because I feel like it's something that's really not touched on.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's mental health during a pregnancy.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it was the battle of I'm no longer medicated, so I'm getting hit by a freight train basically with my ADHD again.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: As well as you're now pregnant and your hormones are going psycho.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: I am, I don't describe myself as an anxious.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Person pre-motherhood.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I am a bit now, but pre-motherhood.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I've never felt that level of anxiety in my life before.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Where I remember sitting there with my doctor, and I was like, I have no control over anything that's going on in my life right now.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: I felt that's how I felt.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like I was in a raging river getting tossed about, and I just could not get my footing, and I just was being swept away at all times.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And she bless her, at like eight weeks of pregnancy, was like, hmm, we're gonna go on a mental health plan, please.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go to therapy immediately.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I went into therapy immediately for it because I knew that this was not okay.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: This this thought cycle.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of my first trimester, it was, am I gonna have an atopic pregnancy?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Is the baby in the right spot?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we did test on that, choose in the right spot.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now am I gonna have a missed miscarriage again?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: I had all of a sudden all of this PTSD and trauma come up, even though I knew it was a blessing, even though all of that I've made my peace with, and I should not have had a child at that young age, I didn't realize how much trauma I had mentally, and I guess still like that resonated a bit in my heart from that, and so all of that came up, and I was like, oh, that's not fun, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we were doing ultrasounds every like fortnightly for my anxiety.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and literally just so I could put my eyes and go, okay, no, there's a heartbeat.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and there's still a heartbeat now, and now everything's okay still.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: I then I guess had a moment of relaxation, is what I'm gonna call it, at the 12-week mark, and I was like, fuck yeah, I managed 12 weeks, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I had my IPT test that came back all groovy, and then I went in for the ultrasound around it, and that wasn't we didn't pass that one.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Her neck was too big, measuring too big.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, what that means when their neck is measuring too big is that it can still be one of the genetic disorders.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So you're looking at like best case scenario, Down syndrome, or there's other syndromes like Turner's and some other ones that are that are really scary that result in a lot of health challenges for a fetus, if it even then turns into an actual, you know, how do I say baby?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: A baby that's able to be birthed.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh a lot of times like a short lifespan after that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: So next thing I knew, I was seeing genetic counselors and stuff, and then saying, like, are you okay?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And how are you handling everything?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, I don't fucking know.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: What does this mean?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what and they're like, we don't know, we just have to wait and see.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, now I'm not okay because you keep asking me if I'm okay, and now I'm should I not be okay?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: That was not fun, and this waiting game as well.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think my mom said it really well, where she was like, Technology nowadays is such a blessing, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and the science and everything that we know is such a blessing, but at the same time, it can also be harmful.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: And at that time for me, it was harmful because she was like, We didn't have these tests, you just you didn't know, and almost ignorance is bliss because we waited at the 16-week mark.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had my other one again, and everything was fine.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: The rest of her body had just like grown into her neck, I guess, right?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And every everything was great, but because it started out so tumultuous, is what I'm gonna say.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's why I sit there and I say, I did not enjoy pregnancy.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was unfair, it was such a head fuck for me that whole time, as well as I was working full time during all of this and moving house during all of this.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: I then in my second trimester, I started sitting there and I started going, I hate the way pregnant women are portrayed in film and TV.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: I never realized it before, but in film and TV, women are throwing up in a toilet and then they are eight months pregnant.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: There is nothing in between, it does not show the journey in between and what you go through.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that in-between stage for me was that stage where everyone was kind of like, Oh, I can't even tell you're pregnant.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Does that mean I always have a pot belly?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't it looks like a it's like no matter how positive they think the comment is, it's it's negative.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you take everything on in a negative sense.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I sat there and I was just like, Oh my gosh, I I'm I'm pregnant and I'm excited, and because I feel like I've worked really hard to get to this point, you know.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm five months pregnant now, but uh apparently I don't look pregnant, and so then people are not questioning, but they're kind of like, you know, oh I can't really even tell.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Are you kidding me?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean you can't tell?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't, I haven't fit into any of my genes in weeks or something, you know.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: So then I feel like I missed that, and then and then I finally then I finally was pregnant enough for society, you know, and then there was it was a few weeks of like, oh, this is kind of nice, then I couldn't move very well, and my hips are hurting really bad, and you know, things like that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, good lord, just one thing after another with this.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: I look back and I'm like, it's so silly when you when you look back at everything, and I'm just like, no, I looked I looked beautiful, and it was such a nice time.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it a head warp though?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the moment it was so intense, and you can't I I was the same.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't really enjoy it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just was waiting for it to end.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also you have the anticipation of just having your baby, and you're like, I just want to meet my baby, and I'm sick of the sleepless nights, and I'm sick of pain all the time, and I'm sick of my hips hurting and my feet swelling up, and how is any of this gorgeous, like you say, like it has been portrayed to us as just this angelic thing that happens to us, and it is in a sense, like whenever I see pregnant women, I think they're stunning and it's this incredible thing that they're doing.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're in it, it's it is so hard.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard, it's a lot.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: I never realize how long nine months is.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's nearly a year, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be a long time clock it until all of a sudden you're pregnant and you're like, oh my god, yeah, it's a really long time.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Even the first children.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Especially because it becomes Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: It starts so hard.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I knew it four weeks.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was one day late in my period and took a test, and so I knew immediately.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did all that move into your birth?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Europe?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have I have a a funny, little bit of a funny labor story.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Firstly, my birth plan was drugs and hospital.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: The end whatever happens is gonna happen.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: I have made my peace with that.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I would like to have a natural birth, but I understand that that things happen during the process, and that's okay for me, and I'm fine with it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: As long as I am in a space um where I feel like I'm taken care of.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, thank goodness here in Melbourne, we have the Royal Women's Hospital, and I had a really positive experience with them.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: A few things I learned in the birthing process though.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: So um I worked full time at one time.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: I had four different projects going on.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing like 60 to 70 hours a week during my pregnancy.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, yeah, that was not smart, but I did.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: At 36 weeks, I had my last day of work on a Friday.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: The following Monday, I was at dinner with a girlfriend of mine.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: We were catching up, hadn't seen her in months, you know, at a a new spot in Fitzroy, which is like just a cool restaurant.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I got up because I was like, mmm, I may have just peed myself a little bit.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Got up, went to the bathroom.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, my water broke.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Day one, maternity leave, water broke.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: So again, hopefully unprepared.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: I came out of the bathroom and I was like, lol, so funny story.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize when your water breaks that it's not just this like waterfall, it's a constant leak, like a leaky faucet.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize that.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I was sitting there and I was just leaking constantly.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't know what to do right now.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: I need to drive myself to the hospital.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, You're a psycho, get in my car, I will drive you.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember being so concerned that I was gonna get just like liquid on her car, and she had a box in her in the trunk of her car, and I broke the box out and I sat on a cardboard box so that I didn't get her car duty because I was like, no, like your car.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, shut the fuck up and get in, you know.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Isn't this fun?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: This is like we're making memories together, and she was like, This would only happen to you.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a movie, it really was.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was very funny.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's one thing they got right.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: We go to the hospital, and I remember this, like, you know, this this poor, I'm gonna call him a boy, you know, he was in his 20s, lovely nurse, I'm sure, sitting at the emergency table.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and I was like, Hi, I'm, you know, I'm my my water is broken.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm in labor.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: What do I do?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Where do I go?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: When are my next steps?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Well, how do you know?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Look, sir, I am literally just dripping down my legs right now.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: There is a puddle on your floor.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: I am constantly in a mess right now.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Oh, okay.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we go in the back, and and the nurse has to check me to make sure that I'm actually like my water is breaking.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I pulled down my pants, and it's just an it's I'm just a faucet.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the funny part as well that I didn't know when your water breaks, that does not mean the baby is coming.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't mean that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Nope.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just means that your water is broken.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: You just I ran out of room.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: That was it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually never went into labor.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: My water broke on a Monday.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: They did they kept me in the hospital, they did all these tests to make sure there wasn't an infection or anything.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: There wasn't anything that happened by Wednesday.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been in there for now 48 hours.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: I finally can I convinced them.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Mind you, like my husband was supposed to be away that week for work.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was his last like work trips before the baby arrived.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I have no bag on me because I haven't packed anything yet.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was day one of maternity leave, right?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: So my my girlfriends are at my house doing the laundry, doing the dishes for me, packing bags for me, and I was like, you know, and they bring stuff to the hospital, and it's like, you know, you lift stuff up and you're like, I haven't been able to fit into this in four months.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how I'm gonna wear this.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've just got the clothes and I went to dinner in, and that's it.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: So 48 hours later, I'm like, I finally convinced them.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, please let me go home.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Please, because I just I need to go home, I need to shower, I need to get a good night of sleep.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to go into birthing a child this tired, kind of thing.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, that's fine.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Come back tomorrow.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: We have to induce you.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because at that point, I would have been 37 weeks, and they didn't want me to go into labor or induce me before then because technically it would have been preterm then.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: So they're like, come back tomorrow, you have to come back tomorrow, we will then induce you.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, fine, cool.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, my mom has hopped on a flight from the States and she's come over and was able to make it here, which is amazing.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: And her and I just sat there on Wednesday and just did everything together that we needed to do, packed everything really well.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: All of us went to the hospital.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was great for that stuff.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I hadn't I had my candles, you know, electric candles around the room.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: I sat there during the birthing process, and I was eating Sour Patch Kids and watching Harry Potter.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I watched the first six movies during the whole process.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I was okay.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was that I made it till five centimeters before I was like, okay, epidural now, please.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I how long do you think that took?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: So they I mean you watch six movies, so well, throughout the course of the night I watched six movies.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was in labor, I was in labor for a total of 21 hours.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: I started at 1 p.m., I think is when they induced me, and I got an epidural at 8 p.m.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was five centimeters.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize that the when you get an epidural as well, that it slows down the process a lot.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: So from 8 p.m.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: to 8 a.m.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: the next day, it's how long it took me to get to a to 10 centimeters.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was interesting.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I got the epidural and then I was like, cool, I'm cruisy again.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Keep watching Harry Potter, like we're fine, you know?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I was I was okay, and I could I could feel things happening, and I was, you know, trying to get up and move as best I can, but then once that epidural hits, you're just you can't really feel your legs anymore.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was too Did you manage to get some sleep?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, no.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Who's sleeping on that?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sleeping on that.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: I had sleep on that.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have one, so I just assume people sleep on them.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, I did not sleep.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, you got too much going on.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's also with an epidural, you're on a drip.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it runs out.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you've gotta you've gotta push the button to get more.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I was pushing the button like once every hour and a half in the beginning.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of thing.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: So then we get to we we get to 10 centimeters, and they say to me, Okay, we're gonna wait an hour, you're not gonna push yet.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I went, pardon me, I'm at 10 centimeters.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I need I'm I need to push.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, you're not ready yet.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: You need to wait.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't still don't totally know what was going on there and what happened exactly.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I sat there for an hour.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, the epidrol was not working anymore.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, I could feel everything.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm just sitting there and I'm having because I'd been induced, I was having rolling contractions.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that means for those who don't know, you don't have a break in between, they're just on top of each other.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I had an hour of that where I wasn't able to push.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Then they said, Okay, you're ready to push.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead and push.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And me being, you know, obviously an overachiever, I sat there and I listened exactly to everything they said to me.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, they they point to different like parts and even touch you, and they go, push here, push here, relax this.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I was so zen, and I was like really focused in on that, and I was doing it, and they were like, You are textbook pushing.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: This is beautiful, you're doing amazing.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's not moving, and I was like, Why the fuck aren't you moving?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: So her head was up, she was looking where she was going, which meant the entire time she's like this, her head is supposed to be like this.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I meant though is that every time I had a contraction, she was ramming into my sacrum bone because she couldn't get around it.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that intense pain that I was feeling was her just ramming over and over and over into my sacrum bone.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So now I've had an hour of this pushing, and they go, We're gonna go get a doctor.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, please.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what the fuck?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: So they go and they get a doctor and they come back, and the doctor's like, beautiful pushing, you're doing great.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: This textbook pushing, but yeah, she's she's not moving, and I was like, Oh no, we know that already.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can I have some new information, please?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: And they're talking and they're like, Okay, well, maybe try this, and pushing a different way and that kind of stuff.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: About 15 minutes later, I'm now screaming and I'm going, get her the fuck out of me.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care how you do it, put me to fucking sleep.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Cut this girl out of I am done.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: We're done at this point.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not okay anymore.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they could, well, these are your options.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't give a fuck.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: I will sign whatever you want me to sign.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all make the decision, I'm out.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of thing.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so they start having me sign paper, like all this paperwork and stuff.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll never forget how 10 minutes.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just what you want to do in that moment is sign something and rights.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Just I'll do whatever.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'll never forget.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: Ten minutes later, they come back up to me and they go, We're so sorry.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: We accidentally had you sign the wrong paperwork.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Can you sign this instead?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, okay.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: So then I'm signing more paperwork.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: So then they they wheel me and they're prepping me for a c-section just in case because they're not sure what they need to do.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, we either need to do force ups or or maybe vacuum, like something like that, like some suction cupping kind of situation.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um we need to do a c-section.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't care.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: So they put me in pre-op area, and I have this out-of-body experience where I'm like, these poor people around me, I'm animal guttural screaming at this point.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: I could never make these noises again in my life if I even tried kind of screaming, right?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: I then go into the pre-such a weird experience that moment when you're hearing your yourself make the noises as well, because it's kind of an out-of-body experience when you're looking at yourself.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Out-of-body experience you're having.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is so intense, but like it's also the only way you can be, and it feels good.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: It does feel good.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to be like that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Not good in in terms of like a relief perspective, but good in terms of like you're you do feel like your body's just kind of taking over, and you're like, Oh no, this is this noise is what I'm supposed to be making, right?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, whatever.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And stuff, but there's this other party like that's very in polite.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's not that's not cute.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing?
• 41:41
  unknown: You know.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I go into the pre-op room, I remember, and I was sitting there, and they ended up giving me a spinal tap.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was having rolling contractions as they were trying to give it to me.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I rem and I there's like 10 people in the room.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even lift my head up to look at any of them.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember two like younger girls on either side of me, and I'm squeezing their hands like you know, like nothing, because I'm trying to stay still so they can get this fucking drug in me, so that I'm not having these rolling contractions anymore.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Are you like sitting up, standing up?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting up because you have to sit up so that they can put it into your spine.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Again, like sitting on your pelvis at that moment is torture.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: Worst pain in the world.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you're yeah, you're just like that, right?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just hunched over though, but I'm trying to not move at all so that they can just get the skin to my back easing hands, and then the drug hits me, and I'm like, oh, and then I lift up my head and I and I look around and I'm like, Hey, how's everybody doing?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: You guys good?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really good.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Lindsay, by the way.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so sorry about all of that.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I look at the girl and I'm like, how's your hand?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you okay?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: And stuff, and then they bring my husband in, and I'm like, hey, and he's like, Oh god, you're alive.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm great, I'm so good.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Okay, Lindsay, you need to push now.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, mind you, when my body relaxed, my child decided that that was the moment she was gonna get into position perfectly.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: So she's now in position.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: I did one more, one push, they guided her out with four steps, but didn't have to like pull, just guided.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: One push, and I remember going, Am I pushing?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone goes, Yes! And I'm like, Okay, whatever.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden, there's this very I'm gonna call it ugly looking kind of creature that comes at you, right?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not ready.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that plant from Harry Potter.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is that they pull out of the ground.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like this very, very, you know, very purple, bloody, there's something like there's a lot of white.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Stop, you know, you're like, okay.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember thinking my first thought, they brought her up.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: My first thought went, Oh yeah, that's what we're doing.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having a baby because I'd been in labor for so long.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: I just like my brain forgot what, like, why I was even doing any of this or what was even happening.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, ah, cool.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: We have a baby, she's out, sick.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Can I sleep now?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm done.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I was holding her on my chest, and I was like, This is lovely, but I'm so tired.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't feel my body from my collarbones down.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the rest of the day is such a blur.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't really remember it because I was so tired and I was on the drugs still.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember lovely nurses holding her up to me and like trying to like milk me and just holding her up, and I was like, You guys are doing great.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the breast fading.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I was just I remember just staying there and I was like, You guys are doing great, well done.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like naked, spread eagle, had zero cares in the world, and just like I just needed to sleep.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: I my I'm so my brain checked out for like the next eight hours.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had to and then we stayed in hospital for a week.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: So to recover from the drugs, they wanted you to stay that long?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, so I was a part of a program that is for women who have mental disabilities, which ADHD is classified as.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the program allows you to stay in the hospital for four days after, which to me is was a blessing because it allowed me to for my brain to kind of catch up as to what was kind of going on.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: It allowed me to get into routine, and it was amazing when you have anxiety at four in the morning to push a button, and then somebody comes and then you ask your question, and you go, Yeah, she's got hiccups, what do I do?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, It's okay, it's fine.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: It was amazing for me to be able to have that opportunity and for someone else to sit there and give me my meals and that kind of stuff.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: We ended up having to stay in hospital so long because she lost too much weight initially, so they don't want a baby to lose more than 10% of their body weight that they're born with, and she lost 12.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we had to stay to make sure that that started coming up and was started trending upwards again, as well as she was jaundice, which a lot of kids are.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had that experience too.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Did they make you double feed her with syringes or anything?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: They did, yeah.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And did they do formula as well?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: They forced me onto formula, which I was pretty devastated about that.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think because in my mind I was like, if I start formula, I'm never going to breastfeed.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it was important for me to breastfeed.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just that was that was one of the weird things that was in my mind where I was like, I really need to breastfeed because it's what's best for her.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter like how it's going for me.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's it matters about her and her experience and her health at that point.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, I was like, I really don't want to formula feed, but I had to at the time.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I was I was doing I was double.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I was pumping, breastfeeding, and doing flip.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is so much, it's so much time because I feel like when you're not breastfeeding, you're pumping, and when you're not pumping, you're trying to hurrily eat or sleep or go to the toilet, and it's just this relentless cycle, and they're on you so intensely.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they put the fear of God in you, and you feel like your baby's gonna die if you don't do this.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: You feel like you're failing as a as your first test as a mother, you feel like you're failing.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I'm so grateful we stayed in the hospital for so long, though, was because I just had so much extra support because of that, which was really, really helpful.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is crazy though, that you go through this literally body splitting experience, and then they go, Okay, great, here's some Tylenol, which is you know, panicol, after, and you're like, sorry, that's all I get for this.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and did you tear or did you get an epesiotomy?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: I got a I got a partial epesiotomy.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I was lucky that I didn't tear prior to that with how much pushing I was doing, and then before right after I got the spinal tap, they did a partial epesiotomy so that they could fit the forceps in to guide her and bring her out and stuff.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you're heal basically healing from a wound as well as the entire physical marathon that you've been through.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, and they just send you on your way.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: And thanks, have a great day.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think something that nobody tells you, and that I always tell people now when they're when they're pregnant, is I say, if you push for more than an hour, firstly, try to not push for more than an hour.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do and you've had an epidural or a spinal tap or anything as well, start laxatives.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Have them give you laxatives.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know this is not cute talk, but then this is great.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: The day you stop, start laxative.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: They did not put me on laxatives until I was like four or five days post-birth.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: When I tell you I didn't poop for five days then afterwards, and I had a hernia the size of a donut.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I still have a hernia.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: I still do.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: I still had complications with that, which is why I say to people, do not push for more than an hour.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: Have have it in your birth plan.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because I because I pushed for two, almost two and a half hours.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: And what's happening?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: So and because she wasn't going anywhere and I was pushing so hard, my muscles were just pushing out of my organs.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they don't talk about things.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is a hernia different to a prolapse?
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know a prolapse is when your pelvic floor is weak and your I think it could be your bladder or your uterus.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's one or the other.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's different for people.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think the most common one is when your uterus falls into your vaginal wall and then it can come out of your vagina.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: So And that's the prolapse is when it's what's on the inside is now on the outside.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is so this is different.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: The human body can get a hernia almost anywhere.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's from you can get it from going to the gym if you're exerting too much energy or something, right?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like a rip in in almost the lining that keeps like like your guts in and stuff, like in your muscle.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times it can be fixed, just like by time, but a lot of times it's also surgery.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm now at the point a little bit where I'm you know nearly 15 months post and going, so am I gonna need to get surgery?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's shrunk a lot, it's a lot better, but I still have complications today from it, and I still have complications at my bladder, the inconstants in general, yeah.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I can I put that down to pushing for so long, personally.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the stuff that you are never told about before you decide to have a baby.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's that's a lot to set you up with your first days at home.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking back to that time, can you kind of walk us through what it was like for you going home and starting your new life as a family?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: And did you have visitors come over?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Were there people there to help cook?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Were people caring for you?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Were you able to be in bed all the time and recover?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: How did those first four weeks look?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: All the all the anxiety that we talked about from my first trimester came came roaring back once I had given birth, you know, and they they talk about everybody goes through kind of like around your third day of post-baby of how you just start crying that day because your hormones are coming down, right?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: I basically had that, but then I had it for a few weeks, and so for me, it was pretty obvious that I early on that I was in postpartum depression and that I was going through PPD.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so for our support that we had here, we had decided that my mom was gonna stay with us for the first six weeks, and her role kind of being here was to support us from a like cooking and cleaning, laundry, like that type of stuff perspective.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then also just as I think for me, it was really powerful to have a woman around who had been through this because there is so much knowledge that needs to be passed down from you know, woman to woman, and I needed that kind of shared knowledge at that at that time and that shared support and everything.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm her only child, and so I really valued her being here, and and so did my husband, because it allowed us to be more in the moment.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: He went back to work after three weeks, and so it also allowed for that transition, just having an extra pair of hands so that I wasn't totally alone and by myself.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um living here in Melbourne, neither of us have family that are here.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we've kind of created family, you know, with our friends, and we're very fortunate with that.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so we did have some really good support from a few friends who would just come over and and you know, bring a bit of food, or or just, you know, my my girlfriend would come over and she's like, Cool, I just talked to you with some more protein bars that are up there.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let me do some laundry for you, or yep, let me see the baby or something, or like what you know, what do you need?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of stuff.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I was fortunate to have that also.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: We were also the first ones of our friend group to have a baby, so it made me feel like I wasn't understood, if that makes sense, which we'll no one knows what it's like.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea what it's like until you go through it.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually look back at the way I was to my friends who had babies before I had a baby, and just cringe and think, fuck girl, like they need so much more, so much more, and all different things.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've gone back to the women in my life who had babies like when we were younger, and I've and I've gone, hey, I'm really sorry I wasn't there for you, you know, or whatever.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Oh, yeah, it's all good.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it is.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: You just you just don't know, you just don't get it, kind of thing, and that's okay.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get how vulnerable and absolute exhaustion is just everywhere.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can't even be bothered to get up and cook a meal.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Meal deliveries changed our life.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: We loved having them from our friends.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: We actually set up a what do you call it?
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: A meal drive or something.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: And people could select dates on their calendar, and then they would just drop it at our door, and no one would knock, and no one would feel like they had to come in.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that went on for about four weeks, and that was incredible.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I could pass on one thing for new parents to do, it would be set up a meal train.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's the word.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's amazing websites and apps where you can do it, and you just send a link to all your loved ones, and they just select a date, they tell you you can put all your dietaries in.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you have other kids, toddlers, you can ask for them to bring a little meal for them as well, or snacks.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's just it's there's a whole world of how you care for people in postpartum that you don't really know about until you have a baby.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like to your point with that as well, though, I I I didn't prep enough from like a food perspective because I also didn't know what was gonna sound good to me.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of times, like in pregnancy, although I wasn't nauseous, a lot of foods just didn't sound good.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I just couldn't fathom being that hungry.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and holy cow, the level of hunger you experience in those first few weeks is insane.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the thirst, like, all of a sudden you're just like like your mouth is just the Sahara Desert, right?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you're just so thirsty and everything.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: You just need a two-liter bottle strapped to you permanently.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the fear, the fear when you're on your own breastfeeding your baby, and you're stuck nap trapped in the chair, and your water bottle is empty, and you're like, the worst.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna die, I'm gonna perish in this chair, my partner's gonna come home, and I'm gonna be a skeleton, and that's how I will die.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it, and it's a really sad story, and that that'll be my legacy for everyone.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you had some friends help out with food, and your mum was there caring for you.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that because I was in therapy from like eight weeks during my pregnancy, we were prepared for me to have postpartum depression.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: We like it is statistically for somebody who has ADHD, your chances of having it are much higher than someone who's neurotypical.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we were prepared for me to have it, and I knew that I probably was going to have it.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so how I prepared for that is I made sure I understood what the symptoms were and what it could look like, and I made sure the people who were gonna be around me also knew what it could look like, and I gave them permission basically to be able to say to me, Hey, I think you're depressed, or I think you're going through this.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and for me to accept that with grace and not as an attack, as a thank you, you're seeing something that I'm not recognizing, right?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we were so prepared for it that yes, I had postpartum depression, but we were preactive and a proactive, excuse me, and so I'm grateful for that.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it it never got to a scary level either, is what I'm gonna say.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: It never got to a self-harm suicidal space.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: It it looks to me, it it just looks like I just feel numb.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel extreme, I don't feel joy, I don't feel extreme sadness, I just feel numb.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel kind of numb just looking at my baby.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like this I don't, I don't, I'm not feeling the thing, I'm not feeling that connection yet.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's so common for people.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I had prepared for that and stuff, so I knew that, but me being a you know, productive kind of type A person, I was like, that's okay, I'm prepared for this.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, I'm just I'm we're just going through the motions though, and I know that my emotions will catch up with everything.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's so powerful, Lindsay.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think many people can have that self-awareness to prepare in that way.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you did yourself a huge favor, and it clearly provided you with support that you desperately needed, because I can tell you the opposite of that is not preparing.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I went through postpartum anxiety and you're in the middle of it, and you you don't have the capacity to to uh even acknowledge it or reach out or ask for support because like caring for a newborn is so intense, as you know, it's like it's just relentless work with no sleep.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's and and you're now in this new state of mind where you're overthinking everything and you can't see the light, and you're it's like you don't even have the ability to pick up a phone and make a doctor's appointment.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or for me it was like I couldn't even voice that to my partner because in the moment I actually didn't know that's that's what I was going through.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was not until it had all passed, and it was like 12, 18 months down the line, that I look back on that with a clear mind, and I think that was really fucked, and I was not okay.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: So in in the moment, it's so easy just to sit there and go, it doesn't matter.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not important.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: What is important right now is a baby, it doesn't matter how I'm feeling, and it's common, I think that line of thought in general is really common in motherhood overall.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: It just kind of shifts and it changes as you know as they get older and stuff.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you sit there and you go, it doesn't my wants and needs don't matter anymore.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's about them, right?
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: In those early days, though, that results in or that looks a lot like postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, and things like that.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: It can go south very, very quickly with people.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm grateful because I've always been the type of person for the most part, um, but it definitely in the last, I guess nearly two years now, like the whole pregnancy experience, where I've been able to feel and understand my feelings as they were happening.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've been able to sit there and go, oh, and name the emotion and name the feeling and name what I was going through.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't necessarily mean that it was easy to pull out of, but at least it had a name and I was aware of those things.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: The interesting part through this though is that because all of the focus was on me for months and months and months and months and months, my husband fell through the cracks.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: My husband had postpartum depression, and I think that's not something that's ever talked about.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: And is still struggling with that now, and because the focus was on me, and not not from a everyone's looking at you and nobody is paying attention to me, it was a you're you're more important because you're physically going through this and you're hormonally going through this, and you're alone with the baby when I go to work and things like that, and the focus was so on me and my recovery that he didn't pay attention to himself and the signs in him that he missed these things, he missed the signs, and then I was missing the signs because I wasn't looking for them, and that's my fault.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was like when I was around maybe eight months postpartum, where I sat there going, Hey, I think something's really going on with you.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I I think you're going through this, and he was like, Yeah, I don't know, maybe.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so now we're swapped and we're focusing on him and his care, and that's where we've been for the past couple months.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it is more common than people realize, also.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: There is no support for men, especially going back to the workplace too.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I often think about this narrative because they're so focused on you, and you know, usually the extended family and loved ones are as well, and they're trying to be your rock, and then I often think, who's your rock?
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: You need a rock.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just hold the whole family up because eventually they will tip over and they won't be able to hold it all because as you said, it's also a huge life-changing experience for them.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to manage again, like you were talking about at the start, they're trying to uphold this version of themselves in their career.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: But everything at home has changed and they're not getting sleep.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: They might be getting a little bit more than the mum, but um you know, they're having rubbish sleep, their whole priorities have changed, they're not having any social life because it's just care for a baby 24-7.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't have any of those important pillars feeding into their wellness, and so of course they're going to tip over.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I yeah, I I've also had that in the back of my mind of like I constantly have to be checking in with my partner and seeing he's okay.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can see it when they're starting to go downhill, and you're like, You're not okay.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: We either need to bring in other people so that they can help you, or you need to go and take some time to, you know, breathe.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, basically.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we need to figure out what what how how to how to help and and what can we do to help and and pull out of this and and everything, right?
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's difficult, I think, as well, because women go through the physical body change, so there's a physical marker when you see someone.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody after giving birth, right?
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or during pregnancy, we have a physical reminder, and somebody sees it.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: The men don't.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: Men don't have it.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: So they're it's it's all you know going on for them, like mentally and stuff.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm also very aware that I'm sitting from a privileged place in this conversation where I have a partner who is a true partner who wants to be here, wants to be in my child's life, and who is you know just an amazing human and has a good soul.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people don't have that story.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I also I appreciate that, but this is this is where I am, and this is this is where my family is, and I think it's it is an important conversation as well, and starting to be studied too, which is great.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought it up because it is really important, and actually on that point, there is science coming out now about fathers.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um their brain actually changes as well.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so they are going through a physical transformation.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously not as intense as ours.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't grown and birthed a baby, but they are going through their own thing.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, again, I think it just comes back to this narrative that society and particularly workplaces just have no care for, really.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: They just expect you to come back as you are and work.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, on that note of work, did you have paid maternity leave?
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, how long?
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't I did not.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_02: So because I'm a freelancer, I got no maternity leave at all.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: So part of the reason why I was working so many jobs during my pregnancy is because we got pregnant so quickly that financially I didn't really feel prepared quite yet.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I during pregnancy and stuff, I was just squirreling away money, you know, just to ensure that post it was okay.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: Again, luckily we live in Australia because I was able to apply for uh maternity leave through the government, at least, and that parental support.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: So from the first week, I I had parental support, so it is like a minimum wage.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: We just adjusted our finances to kind of fit that, and I had it for the entire time.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it was 20 four weeks.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's 24.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, something something around there.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can't quite remember, it was nearly six months, basically.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: And once that was done, I went back to work.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I went back to work at six months from a part-time capacity, and I went into it really helpful because everybody was like, we really support working mothers and we're gonna do everything we can to make this work.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I did my first kind of contract part-time um in the field that I used to work at, and I had to sit there and I had to watch somebody else do my job because I I couldn't do that role anymore.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: I had to take a lesser role, um, which is fine.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: I just had to swallow some pride from that, to be honest with you, because I was like, I don't have capacity to be able to fulfill everything that I used to do.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got to take a lesser role for that, which means lesser pay and you know, less hours.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the end of it, you know, going into the next project, they turned around and they were like, it just didn't really work for us.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was too difficult even part-time.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: And we just can't really do that.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we're trying to, you know, cut the budgets here and there, and and so we just we just don't have the space for you.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that really surprised me and it really shocked me.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't because of how good or bad I did, it was just a bottom line on a budget, I'm a I'm a line item now, and they don't need a part-time on the team, they need someone who can dedicate and who can be full-time.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't matter the hours I would put in previously on different projects with them.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is where I was at now.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it doesn't matter that they support working mothers.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone supports working mothers until it comes down to it, and then no one does.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Until they don't, yeah, until until no one really does.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because it takes it takes a different mindset.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you genuinely support mothers, you have to have a different mindset at work.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just have the same full-time the number of full-time employees that you used to have.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work that way anymore.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You need to allow for flexibility, you need to allow for people to be able to spend time with their families and come to work and do a good job.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was lucky in that first contract that I did that I was able to do it from home.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: They, you know, gave me the type of work that didn't really have like deadlines or too crazy of deadlines, so I could kind of do it when I could with her and everything.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because at this moment, she still wasn't in childcare yet, so I was full-time caring and then trying to work still.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was kind of going on that journey.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you realize when you become a mum and you go back to work how women get left behind in workplaces and careers.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Easily.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's so obvious now once you go back after having a baby because of exactly what you've just outlined in your experience.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have so many laws in place, but there are industries like the ones that I work in that are all contract-based, and when you're contract-based, you get left behind or you come in at a lesser position, so your your career takes a hit.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think our family in particular wasn't ready or prepared for me to take a hit because I've always been the breadwinner, and I've always been the rock in this family, and so for me not to be able to be the breadwinner and for my husband to have to be the breadwinner, that then affected him in a way that contributed to his depression, right?
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because he all of a sudden had this enormous, I think, pressure on himself that I was trying to not put on him, but you can just tell the situation, you can read a room, and he had all this pressure on himself to to be that, so it's yeah, it it affected us in in ways that have been alarming and surprising.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm so glad that we have amazing communication and that we can sit there and see these things and work through these things together personally.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I sat there with him, and he's like, I'm failing, and I'm like, You're not.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is life, life is messy, life is not linear, like you said earlier.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's up and down and sideways and turning around, and this is life, this is it.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, what are we gonna do together to move forward?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or move.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, growth.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's tough because I think that government needs to do more in terms of paid maternity leave and parental leave.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think women feel like they're forced to go back to work too early because of financial reasons or because their workplace has asked them to come back or they'll lose their job.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think if we could give women 12 months, let's say you got 12 months maternity leave paid from the government, how different do you think that first year would have been for you?
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_02: The pressure would have been relieved a lot because it the problem with going back to work, let's say at the 24-week mark or something, is that if you think about it from the child's life, that's when they're going through sleep regressions, and that's when they're all of a sudden discovering what separation anxiety is.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And and you're now asking a child to be separate from you when that's all they've ever known.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And when that happens, you like you said earlier, you can't think about anything, you can't focus, and your child is no longer just a screaming potato.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Your child is now, you know, showing preferences and and and having skills and yeah, not sleeping all of a sudden when they used to sleep you know, months back, but now they're not.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you're almost going through the hardest time, exactly the time when the support stops.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is crazy.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like for me personally, the hardest time was eight to ten months.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_02: The hardest hands down.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I was working two projects at that time and trying to get her into daycare, like just getting used to daycare, and and then she's getting sick and sitting here and trying to be here for for my husband and stuff as well.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it was the hardest.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And mind you, at this point as well, family's all doing their own thing, they don't live here, so they're all living their lives.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Your friends are back to normal, living their lives.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone has a lot of support for very new mothers, but when you need actually really, really need support, there isn't any, and that's a lot too.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_02: From that is when you feel lonely and just like you are drowning, is that time.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think because we've stamped this 12-week postpartum period, like there's this time limit when you go back to your GP for your check, of when everything is meant to just return to normal.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it absolutely does not.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: 12 weeks is like the tip of the iceberg, and you're so right that eight to ten months gets really, really intense.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I always think when I have friends having babies, like we need to support them for at least one year, the bare minimum.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Constantly checking in, offering food constantly for one year, you know, weekly or monthly, whatever you can do.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And even then two years, and then you know, they probably have they may be having another baby, and so you go through the whole cycle again, and it's just this people need way more support.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Three months is just bullshit, and it's the same with maternity leave, like you say, it's like right when it ends is when you need it the most.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and that 12-week period for me is more your body is physically recovering from however your birth was, right?
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_02: But it's going forward that is that is the mental recovery, the hormonal recovery, and then I was more sleep-deprived at six months, at eight months, at ten months than I was at six weeks.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was expecting it at six weeks.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's also just taken a toll, you know, after six months of no sleep.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't expecting it then.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_00: It kills you, yeah.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, hey guys, we're going to another sleep regression, and you're like, fuck me.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we're doing this?
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like the whole narrative needs to be shifted from 12 weeks to the first year.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_00: The first year is just chaos.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_02: But something beautiful happens at 11 months where you're like, Whew, okay.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're good.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're better now.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_02: The that that sleep regression is over.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_02: We are in a happy stage, and they start properly showing their personalities and start really learning cool new skills, and then you go, like, this is this is cool.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's chaos, but now it's fun.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is a great point to do our last three quick fire questions.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the first one is if there were unlimited resources and finances available to you, how would you rewrite your postpartum period and what would it look like?
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think not working for 12 months, absolutely.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think having almost like a housekeeper would be really nice.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's the cleaning and the laundry.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the day-to-day cleaning, it's the it's the in-depth cleaning, if that makes sense.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Scrubbing the bathtub, the you know, the the toilets, mopping the floor, all this kind of, especially because she eats everything off the floor.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yeah.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's that for me, it's for me, it's it's those things that would be super helpful.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_00: What is one joy you get out of motherhood that was unexpected?
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_02: I know it sounds probably pretty cliche, but her laugh It's like a drug.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, it is the best fucking sound in the world.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Her laugh, and I will say no one makes her laugh as much as her father.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I see them playing together, she's cackling away and laughing, and I you're just like, oh, it's it's that that noise for me.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_02: If I could just bottle that and just hear it all the time.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Ugh, I've got shivers all over my body thinking about it.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you get especially when they are playing with their father or their partner, your partner, and you get to sit back and just it's like you're watching this movie, and I for so many times when I'm watching them play together, I just think, How is this my life?
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did I get here?
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_00: How did I get so lucky?
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot believe I've made it to this point, and I'm living this moment.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the absolute bliss of human life.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and I also sit there and I go, Ah, I love this for you, for my daughter.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love you know I I love that you that you have this connection, and I I love that you have this joy in your life also.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I sit there and I'm just like, it's good.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's good.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's the best.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_02: You've got someone's childhood in your hands, they get one, they get one childhood, and it's in your hands, and it's starting out with that much like joy and laughter.
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing a beautiful job.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_00: She's gonna turn out to be an incredible human.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's gonna be fun.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, one more.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's one thing you would tell a new mum about going through matrescence or their postpartum journey?
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_02: No matter how much support you have from friends, family, your partner, you'd have the most supportive partner in the entire world.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_02: You are going through that journey alone.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you need to be prepared to feel like you are a single parent almost for those first six months.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_02: It does not matter how much support you have because that child needs you and you alone, and you are the only one that can provide what they need as a mother, and so it can feel very isolating because of that.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, it's not for lack of anyone else trying.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's just how it is.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Biology, it's biology, and it's what they need, and they need you, and that's it.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So beautifully said.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much, Lindsay.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly could talk to you forever, but I could probably talk hearing.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hitting time.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_00: We should probably go.
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting hungry.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_00: You spoke so beautifully and so vulnerable about your experiences and your partner's experiences.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know that your story will help other women out there feel less alone.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's a really cool community of women that you kind of get into as well as after you have a baby.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's something that I noticed.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_02: My relationship with women that have had children already.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_02: My relationship with them changed after I had a baby as well.
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's all of a sudden like you're just like a part of this club, this this secret thing.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And your relationship changed, and the support that's there from other mothers is it's really palpable.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I hope that everyone feels that and experiences that when they go through this.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for providing this space and these really important conversations.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate you.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of mothering.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a mother yourself, I hope it provided comfort that you are not alone in your journey.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you're about to be a mother or have a new mother in your life, I hope it provided some understanding of the complex emotions and experiences women go through during this life-changing transition.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just a one-woman show, so I would love, love, love, love, love to hear what you thought.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribing is the greatest way you can help this podcast reach other mothers who need it.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you rate and leave a comment on here, I will be eternally grateful to you.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Follow the Instagram page, which is at by Mothering, B Y Mothering.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of opinions on motherhood and share all sorts of things mother-related on there.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to be a guest on the podcast, I really encourage you to reach out to me.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_00: There is a section on my website where you can submit, and I'll leave a link for it in the show notes.
• 1:24:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can find all the relevant links and information mentioned in this podcast below in the show notes as well.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have a beautiful day, and I will see you next time.