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Unburying The Truth · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back everybody for another deep dive, and today we're
• 0:02
  taking a closer look at the case of Herb Baumeister
• 0:05
  and the unidentified remains at Fox Hollow Farm.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Ah. This this one is going to be a deep one.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this one is. This one is dark. But you've
• 0:13
  been giving me some fascinating research and articles to go through,
• 0:17
  and I think what's really standing out to me is,
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  you know, we always talk about societal attitudes and how
• 0:24
  media coverage plays a role, and I think with this
• 0:27
  case in particular, it almost feels more pronounced than in
• 0:31
  a lot of others, especially when you compare it to
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  similar cases but maybe with victims from a different background. Yeah.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really important angle to consider here,
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  especially given you know, we're talking Indianapolis and the nineties,
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  the social climate surrounding the LGBTQ plus community at the time, right,
• 0:48
  you know, just the impact of the AIDS epidemic going
• 0:50
  on as a whole other layer to understanding, you know,
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  how the disappearances of these men might have been sort
• 0:56
  of overlooked initially.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like trying to put a puzzled together
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  but with some pieces missing. You know, we're talking about
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  a time where you didn't have the the modern conveniences
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  of like social media or cell phones exactly like widespread
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  use anyway.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine trying to track someone's whereabouts back then, it
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  wasn't you know, a simple matter of checking their last
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  social media posts or pinging their phone right right, So
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  I know, if someone dropped out of site, it was
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  easy to just assume, oh, maybe they moved on, you know,
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  for a new job or a relationship.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And so that really sets the stage for
• 1:29
  this deep dive because we're talking about the Indianapolis LGBTQ
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  plus scene during that time, and we have a lot
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  of sources here highlighting you know, mass Ave as a
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  kind of central hub. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Mass Av was like this bustling tapestry of nightlife, okay,
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  a place where you know, the community sought connection and solace.
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  You know. Hunter Vale, who lived and breathed that scene okay,
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  describes it as this vibrant, energetic space where people could,
• 1:55
  you know, find a sense of belonging. He notes that,
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  you know, the bars and clubs, they were more than
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  just places to drink and dance. They were vital lifelines
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  for a community facing you know, immense societal pressure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's it's within this community that we
• 2:11
  start to see these disappearances happening. But it seems like
• 2:14
  initially they don't raise any widespread alarm bells.
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  Speaker 2: Right, And I think that speaks volumes about the era.
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  You know, there was a certain level of transience within
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  the community, people moving in and out of the city frequently.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's almost easy to write it off.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's easy to explain away, you know, someone's absence.
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  But then we start to see a shift.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like a sense of ideas.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, this undercurrent of you know, something's not right starts
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  to emerge. And this is where local gay publications, specifically
• 2:45
  The Word and the Newark's News really come into play.
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  They start picking up on these murmurs within the community
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  is growing concern about men vanishing without a trace.
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  Speaker 1: So they're almost like the community's watchdog.
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  Speaker 2: In a way, exactly. You know, the ones who are
• 3:00
  you know, on the front lines documenting these disappearances, amplifying
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  the voices of those who fear something sinisters afoot. We
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  have Laurence Shepherd, who is a key figure in the
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  Indianapolis LGBTQ plus scene at the time, okay, And he
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  recalls the initial sense of disbelief, like, you know, the
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  communities grappling with trying to understand what's happening. And you know,
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  the theories range from you know, runaway situations to foul play.
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  Speaker 1: And it's just this this feeling of like what is
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  going on?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this growing fear, but also the sense of helplessness,
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  like you know, what do we do? Who do we
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  turn to?
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  Speaker 1: Right? And what's striking is like the contrast between the
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  coverage in these local gay publications and then their relative
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  silence from like mainstream media outlets.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and that's that's a crucial piece of the puzzle here. Yeah,
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  this discrepancy and coverage while the Word is even publishing
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  a sketch of a potential suspect, Wow, the mainstream met
• 4:00
  is largely.
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  Speaker 1: Silent, like completely silent.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like this. It makes you wonder.
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  Speaker 1: Why, Yeah, was it simply a lack of awareness or
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  were there these deeper societal forces at play?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have to imagine there's got to be
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  something more to it than just we didn't know, right, And.
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  Speaker 1: And you know Ted Fleischaker, who published the Word, he
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  has suggested that you know, the conservative political climate at
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  the time and just a pervasive bias against the LGBTQ
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  plus community may have influenced that lack of mainstream media attention.
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  Speaker 2: Right, because it's almost like, well, it's just them, not us, you.
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  Speaker 1: Know, they're not they're not like us, so it's not
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  as important.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's chilling to think about.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, is that that?
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  Speaker 2: That is a chilling thought to think about and.
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  Speaker 1: Imagine the frustration within the community, feeling like their concerns
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  aren't being taken seriously by those in a position to help.
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  Who do we turn to exactly? So they're left to
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  sort of investigate on their own.
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  Speaker 2: Share information, warn each other about potential dangers.
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  Speaker 1: You know. It's this really, it's like they're on their own.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're on their own, wow, trying to piece together
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  this puzzle in the dark. It's almost like they're piecing
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  together this puzzle in the dark, relying on whispers and
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  intuition to guide their search. Yeah, and then we see
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  this significant peace emerge a missing person's detective Mary Wilson. Okay,
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  she starts to take notice.
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  Speaker 1: Ah, so someone in law enforcement finally starts to like
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  connect the dots.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, Wilson receives a call from a man named Mike Goodyear. Okay,
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  and Goodyear believes he's narrowly escaped a dangerous encounter with
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  a man he met at a bar. Oh wow, he
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  only knew the guy as Brian Smart. Okay, but Goodyear
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  felt certain that this encounter was linked to the missing men.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So we have this this mysterious Brian Smart figure
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  entering the picture, right, was this like the breakthrough that
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  the investigation needed.
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  Speaker 2: Wilson sees the connections, recognizing the potential significance of good
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  Year's encounter.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: And while this is all happened, there's this chilling discovery
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  on the Boummeister property.
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  Speaker 1: You're talking about the human skull that's found by Baumeister's son, exactly,
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  the one that Baumeister just kind of just dismisses as, oh,
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  that's just part of my dad's old medical school skeleton.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's you know, it's a detail that seems almost
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  too eerie to be true, right you look back, it's
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  like this haunting foreshadowing of what was to come.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like a warning sign that was just tragically overlooked.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So, even with this discovery that the disappearance is continued.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, in nineteen ninety five, Michael Kerrn vanishes okay, and
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  then another crucial break happens. Okay, goodyear, spot's Brian Smart again. Wow,
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  and this time he manages to get his license plate number.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, and this.
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  Speaker 2: Leads the police directly to herb Baumeister.
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  Speaker 1: So Brian Smart, the mysterious figure lurking in the shadows,
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  finally has a name.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: What happens next?
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  Speaker 2: Police go to Fox Hollow Farm to question Baumeister, and
• 7:01
  they request to search his property. Okay, but both Baumeister
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  and his wife, Julie, they refuse.
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  Speaker 1: You can almost feel the mounting frustration at this point,
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  like this sense of urgency, like clashing against these roadblocks.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely. But then in nineteen ninety six, Julie Baumeister makes
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  a decision that changes everything. Okay, she agrees to let
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  the police search the property.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a pivotal moment. It is what happens once
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  the search begins.
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  Speaker 2: On the first day of the search, investigators uncover human remains.
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  Oh wow, confirming everyone's worst fears. Right, an arrest warrant
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  is issued for RB Baumeister. Okay, but before he can
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  be apprehended, he flees to Canada and tragically takes his
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  own life.
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  Speaker 1: So justice is ultimately denied for the victims and their families.
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  It is just adding another layer of tragedy to this
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  already heartbreaking story.
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  Speaker 2: It's a devastating turn of events. The national spotlight briefly
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  shines on the case, but then it sort of fades
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  from viewing dental records and DNA analysis, eight victims are identified, okay,
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  but many remain nameless.
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  Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that you know, DNA technology wasn't as
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  advanced as it is today. Did that play a role
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  in the decision to essentially close the case despite so
• 8:16
  many unidentified remains.
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  Speaker 2: It's certainly a factor to consider. You know, the technology
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  available at the time presented limitations, made it, you know,
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  a much more challenging and expensive process to try to
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  identify these victims.
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  Speaker 1: And that there's also the societal context to consider as well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: Like these victims were primarily gay men during a time
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  when you know, societal biases might have influenced how their
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  cases were prioritized.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an important point. Can't you can't separate the
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  investigation from the social climate of the time. But the
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  story doesn't end there. Okay, decades later, a renewed effort
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  to identify the remaining victims emerges.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like there's a lot more to uncover in
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  this case. There is, let's dive into that next. So
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  it's incredible to think that for years, these remains we're
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  just kind of like in limbo, waiting for someone to
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  take up their cause. What was it that really sparked
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  this renewed effort to try and identify them?
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  Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty two, then the newly elected Hamilton
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  County Coroner, Jeff Jellison, he receives a call from a
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  man named Eric Pranger, and Pranger believes that his missing
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  cousin might be among the unidentified victims at Fox Hollow Farm,
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  and that one phone call really ignites this chain reaction.
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  Speaker 1: So it's almost like Pranger's determination to find his cousin
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  kind of reignites this whole investigation precisely. Wow.
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  Speaker 2: Jellison is moved by pranger story and decides to delve deeper.
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  So he contacts doctor Chrystal Latham, who is the director
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  of the University of Indianapolis Human Identification Center, and he
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  inquires about the remains.
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  Speaker 1: Now, doctor Latham, she's a leading forensic anthropologist, right is.
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  I mean, she's dedicated her career to identifying human remains,
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  often in complex and challenging cases.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And when Jealouson asks her about the Fox Hollow
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  Farm remains, Yeah, her answer is staggering. Okay, she tells
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  him there are approximately ten thousand bone fragments, Wow, still unidentified.
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  Speaker 1: That number is just overwhelming, it is. It's just a
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  stark reminder of the scale of this tragedy, yeh and
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  the number of lives that are still just kind of
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  left in limbo.
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  Speaker 2: It's a testament to the complexity of this case. You know.
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  Remember some of the remains were burned, some were dumped
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  in piles, making identification extremely difficult. But Jealouson he was
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  determined to give these victims.
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  Speaker 1: A name, right, And it seems like he really approached
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  this case with a real sense of urgency and a
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  commitment to kind of writing past wrongs.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's what's so remarkable about Jellison's approach. Yeah,
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  you know, he onearths this shocking truth. Okay, Back in
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  nineteen ninety six, families were actually expected to pay for
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  the DNA testing to potentially identify their loved ones.
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  Speaker 1: Are you serious? That's unbelievable.
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  Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking.
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  Speaker 1: Imagine the burden on those families already grappling with the
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  disappearance of a loved one and then being asked to
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  bear the financial cost of potentially identifying them as a
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  victim of a serial killer.
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  Speaker 2: It's a horrifying thought. And Jealouson was outraged.
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  Speaker 1: By this practice rightfully, so.
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  Speaker 2: He recognized the injustice and the insensitivity that it represented.
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  Speaker 1: It just makes you reflect on the societal attitudes of
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  the time, it does, and how those attitudes might have
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  impacted the investigation and the treatment of these victims.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and Jealouson was committed to changing that narrative. Good
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  for him, so he issues a press release announcing his
• 11:45
  intention to reopen the case and to secure funding to
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  ensure that families wouldn't have to bear that cost.
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  Speaker 1: It feels like such a turning point. It is like
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  a shift in how these victims and their families were
• 11:59
  finally being treated with dignity and respect.
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  Speaker 2: Right and Jellison's announcement it catches the attention of the
• 12:05
  Indiana State Police, the FBI, grants and funding start to
• 12:09
  come in providing the resources needed for this massive undertaking.
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  Speaker 1: So with renewed resources and public attention, like, what progress
• 12:18
  has been made in identifying the victims?
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  Speaker 2: The results have been remarkable and deeply moving.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So, thanks to DNA samples provided by family members
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  including Eric Pranger, one victim has been positively identified. Oh wow,
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  Ellen Lee Livingston who vanished in nineteen ninety three.
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  Speaker 2: Think about the impact of that identification on Livingston's family. Yeah, Like,
• 12:42
  after years of uncertainty, they finally have some closure.
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  Speaker 1: It's incredible and Jealouson shared this really poignant anecdote about
• 12:51
  Livingstone's mother. Okay, you know she kept a landline phone
• 12:55
  for years, wow, always hoping that her son might call. Oh,
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  and it just speaks to the enduring pain of not knowing,
• 13:03
  the hope that never truly fades.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: You know, Livingstein's story highlights.
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  Speaker 2: That your real.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Lives they touch.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: It's a powerful reminder that behind every bone fragment, Yeah,
• 13:19
  every DNA sequence, right, there's a human story waiting to
• 13:22
  be told. Absolutely, And while Livingstone's identification represents this major victory.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: The work at Foxhall of Farm is far from over.
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  Speaker 2: It's not.
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  Speaker 1: There are still thousands of bone fragments right, countless potential
• 13:35
  victims waiting to be named.
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  Speaker 2: Jellison has called it the second largest investigation of unidentified
• 13:41
  human remains in the United States, Wow, second only to
• 13:44
  the World Trade Center.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: And he's urged anyone with a missing family member from
• 13:49
  that time period to come forward and provide DNA.
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  Speaker 1: Samples, almost like a race against time. It is. It's
• 13:55
  desperate search for answers before they're lost forever.
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  Speaker 2: And it's not just about identifying the remains, right, It's
• 14:01
  about acknowledging the missteps of the past, Yeah, confronting the
• 14:06
  societal biases that might have contributed to these victims being
• 14:10
  overlooked for so long.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's about ensuring that all victims, regardless of their
• 14:14
  background or their identity, Yes, receive the justice and respect
• 14:18
  that they deserve.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: What an incredibly complex and emotionally charged case it is.
• 14:24
  You've provided some really insightful information and I think our
• 14:27
  listener is going to find this deep dive incredibly valuable.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: It's been a privilege to explore these sources with you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think the key takeaway here is the
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  power of perseverance.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: The unwavering pursuit of justice and the recognition that every light,
• 14:43
  every story matters. It does you know the work at
• 14:46
  fox Hall of Farm continues and with it the hope
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  of bringing more families that piece of knowing what happened
• 14:52
  to their loved ones.
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  Speaker 1: And thank you for joining us on this deep dive.
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  We hope it has sparked your curiosity and encouraged you
• 14:58
  to reflect on the importance of empathy, advocacy, and the
• 15:01
  pursuit of justice for all