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The Road to a Ring: Brewers vs. Rays with Jon Daniels · Rosters to Rings Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Roster Syringes alongside Thad Levine. I am
0:07
Speaker 1: Chet West. This week, we've got a familiar face returning
0:10
Speaker 1: to the show and someone who knows my co-host Thad
0:13
Speaker 1: Levine pretty well. John Daniels is back with us. John
0:18
Speaker 1: spent nearly two decades with the Texas Rangers organization, including
0:23
Speaker 1: serving as general manager and president of baseball operations. Alongside Thad,
0:27
Speaker 1: he helped build the Rangers teams that reached back-to-back World
0:30
Speaker 1: Series and in 2010 and 2011. Those teams came incredibly
0:36
Speaker 1: close to bringing Texas its first championship, and while they
0:40
Speaker 1: ultimately fell short, they provided both John and Thad with
0:43
Speaker 1: experiences that have helped shape their careers. Fast forward 15 years,
0:48
Speaker 1: both find themselves in somewhat similar advisory roles with different
0:53
Speaker 1: organizations that happen to be facing off this week in
0:56
Speaker 1: the World Series. Thad is with the Milwaukee Brewers, while
0:59
Speaker 1: John is working with the Tampa Bay Rays. Today, we're
1:03
Speaker 1: going to briefly revisit those memorable Rangers teams, discuss how
1:06
Speaker 1: the game and the business of baseball may have changed,
1:09
Speaker 1: and take a look inside their respective organizations and break
1:12
Speaker 1: down the 2026 World Series before turning our attention toward
1:16
Speaker 1: next season. John. Welcome back to Roster Strings. It's great
1:20
Speaker 1: to have you.
1:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Chet. Hello, Thaddeus.
1:23
Speaker 3: Wonderful to see you. Wonderful to see you. Just worth noting, guys,
1:28
Speaker 3: that we're recording this Wednesday morning before Game 5. The
1:31
Speaker 3: Brewers are up currently 3-1 in the best of seven
1:34
Speaker 3: in the World Series. So for those listening, that is
1:37
Speaker 3: the context of this conversation. We hope to take you
1:39
Speaker 3: behind the scenes, share as much of our experience from 2010-2011,
1:44
Speaker 3: as well as real insights into what's going on in
1:47
Speaker 3: the clubhouses, in the front offices here in the World
1:50
Speaker 3: Series in 2026.
1:52
Speaker 1: And to give you even more context, none of us
1:54
Speaker 1: got to sleep last night before midnight, I'm pretty sure.
1:57
Speaker 1: Some of us a little later as you guys are
1:59
Speaker 1: on Eastern Standard Time. So give us a little grace here,
2:03
Speaker 1: but we'll do our best today on short rest. I
2:06
Speaker 1: want to look back real quick, and I don't want
2:08
Speaker 1: to go too far back. You guys have talked about
2:12
Speaker 1: your days with the Rangers on this show previously. John,
2:15
Speaker 1: we've heard your sports origin story. Listeners go back and
2:18
Speaker 1: listen to some of those shows if you want it.
2:19
Speaker 1: But what I do want to touch on real quick
2:21
Speaker 1: here is what's something you both maybe believed about building
2:26
Speaker 1: a championship roster back in those 2010, 2011 years of
2:30
Speaker 1: the Rangers that you don't believe in anymore, or maybe
2:33
Speaker 1: you've changed your opinion on John. Why don't you go first?
2:36
Speaker 1: If you want.
2:37
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I'm thinking through a couple of possibilities,
2:40
Speaker 2: but I think one of the, um, there's a, I
2:45
Speaker 2: I've always believed, I think, and I think that would
2:47
Speaker 2: probably echo this, I always believed in, you know, you
2:50
Speaker 2: need to build an organization more than building necessarily the team.
2:54
Speaker 2: I think that is even more true today with the
2:59
Speaker 2: number of resources and different avenues that we all compete in.
3:03
Speaker 2: And I think just the nature of, or the necessity,
3:09
Speaker 2: I should say, of building out, it's not your, you know,
3:12
Speaker 2: it was 25-man team at that time, now 26. It's
3:15
Speaker 2: You need to have 40 to 60 deep both to
3:20
Speaker 2: get through the season, but then also, as we're seeing now,
3:23
Speaker 2: you're seeing young players that started the season in the
3:25
Speaker 2: minor leagues or were added later by nature of trades.
3:29
Speaker 2: The necessity to have the depth to make it through
3:33
Speaker 2: the season and then have guys that are peaking at
3:35
Speaker 2: the right time. I mean, the true nature of a
3:39
Speaker 2: team is much more than the, you know, the opening
3:41
Speaker 2: day 26-man roster.
3:43
Speaker 3: JD, a few things come to my mind to try
3:46
Speaker 3: to address Chet's question, which is, one is, I think,
3:50
Speaker 3: you know, this is where the rubber meets the road.
3:53
Speaker 3: We have a lot of information, a lot of resources,
3:56
Speaker 3: a lot of intelligence that goes behind putting together these rosters.
4:00
Speaker 3: And sure, it's easy to understand, okay, here's our starting nine,
4:02
Speaker 3: here's our our one through four starting pitchers. Here's our
4:06
Speaker 3: best relievers. It's the guys on the margins that we
4:09
Speaker 3: have a lot of discussions about. We're talking a lot
4:12
Speaker 3: about the guys who ultimately become the 24th, 25th, and
4:16
Speaker 3: 26th men on the rosters. And I think one observation
4:19
Speaker 3: I would share with the listeners is we have best
4:22
Speaker 3: laid plans sometimes with those guys. Those guys look good
4:25
Speaker 3: on paper. They match up well against a pocket of
4:28
Speaker 3: hitters as a reliever. Maybe they're a platoon guy that
4:31
Speaker 3: could really help serve or defend late in the game.
4:35
Speaker 3: What it comes down to though, is who does the
4:37
Speaker 3: manager actually have faith in? And when you watch the
4:40
Speaker 3: manager manage these games, you want to give them some
4:42
Speaker 3: agency to make the frontline calls. You just see the
4:46
Speaker 3: guys they trust implicitly in key situations. And on the
4:51
Speaker 3: converse side, unfortunately, maybe the guys that haven't earned their trust.
4:55
Speaker 3: And so sometimes I think we as front office people
4:58
Speaker 3: will strongly encourage, dare I say, even force certain guys
5:02
Speaker 3: onto rosters because on paper they look like they really
5:05
Speaker 3: fit with what we're trying to accomplish. In practice, if
5:09
Speaker 3: the manager isn't going to use that player, he's not
5:12
Speaker 3: as valuable. I remember you saying to me, J.D., when
5:14
Speaker 3: we were building out rosters in Texas, that John Hark
5:17
Speaker 3: had shared with you the concept of make sure the
5:20
Speaker 3: manager has access to at least the last reliever on
5:24
Speaker 3: the roster and maybe the last position player. Just give
5:26
Speaker 3: it to them. Because if they're not going to use
5:28
Speaker 3: the player, that spot is kind of moot. And you've
5:31
Speaker 3: got to go into these playoffs. See, it sounds crazy
5:34
Speaker 3: to say this. We play seven games in like nine days.
5:37
Speaker 3: So you have two days off. That should be plenty.
5:40
Speaker 3: But if you're not playing but 20 players of the 26,
5:43
Speaker 3: you can exhaust your roster in a hurry. You've got
5:45
Speaker 3: to make sure that the manager is comfortable playing the
5:47
Speaker 3: players that you put on the roster.
5:49
Speaker 1: I have a question as a fan. So there's something
5:52
Speaker 1: that I've kind of noticed here. And I can't remember
5:54
Speaker 1: the last time this really happened. I'm sure it has before,
5:57
Speaker 1: but We have two players between your two teams. You
6:00
Speaker 1: have Caminero with the Reyes and we have Churrio with
6:02
Speaker 1: the Brewers. I can't remember the last time that two
6:06
Speaker 1: players that young that lacked that much experience at the
6:09
Speaker 1: major league level were actually kind of the centerpieces of
6:12
Speaker 1: the show in the World Series. Typically, it's veterans. And
6:15
Speaker 1: I know there's some veteran presence on both teams, but
6:18
Speaker 1: they are sort of taking a little bit of a
6:19
Speaker 1: backseat to those two guys. Is this Is that the
6:22
Speaker 1: change that we may be seeing here in postseasons to come?
6:25
Speaker 1: Or is it just the way the Brewers and Tampa
6:27
Speaker 1: Bay Rays have kind of built their team so it
6:29
Speaker 1: provides that kind of youthful injection into the postseason? I
6:35
Speaker 1: guess I'm looking at these guys. I mean, Cameron Aaron's got, what,
6:37
Speaker 1: one full season under his belt prior to this? Yeah.
6:40
Speaker 2: A couple, yeah.
6:43
Speaker 1: I mean, is this just what we should be looking
6:45
Speaker 1: forward to?
6:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think to a degree it is the nature
6:50
Speaker 2: of our markets and payrolls where we're going to be
6:56
Speaker 2: a lot of young players just by nature of the
7:01
Speaker 2: system and how these teams are structured. But I also
7:04
Speaker 2: think it's a sign of the time and the advances
7:07
Speaker 2: in player development that, you know, you're seeing some of
7:10
Speaker 2: these great young players. Was it Bryce Harper got there
7:13
Speaker 2: at 19? The great ones always get there early. But
7:16
Speaker 2: I think you're seeing it more and more where, you know,
7:19
Speaker 2: the best players are moving through the system and acquiring
7:24
Speaker 2: the skills that they need at even a quicker rate.
7:26
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think back. Did you guys have young
7:28
Speaker 1: guys in Texas that were like that? When you had
7:32
Speaker 1: those 2010-2011 series, was there a young player that was
7:34
Speaker 1: kind of popping up on the scene, or did they
7:36
Speaker 1: play more of kind of a, I don't know, a
7:38
Speaker 1: bit role or a supporting role? I'm thinking back, I
7:41
Speaker 1: remember a lot of veterans on those teams.
7:43
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, one of our key players at that
7:45
Speaker 3: time was Elvis Andrus, who was, you know, what was he, J.D.?
7:49
Speaker 3: 20 years old at the time or just turning 21. But,
7:52
Speaker 3: you know, one thing that was remarkable about those Texas
7:55
Speaker 3: teams is we actually had a very low payroll check.
7:58
Speaker 3: You know, I think famously when we played the Yankees
8:00
Speaker 3: in 2010, their payroll, you know, was twice or two
8:03
Speaker 3: and a half times our payroll. And part of the
8:05
Speaker 3: reason for that is because we had guys who were
8:07
Speaker 3: in their front line of their earning potential, which is
8:10
Speaker 3: to say they hadn't really reached their free agent years yet.
8:13
Speaker 3: So while they may not have been super young, some
8:16
Speaker 3: of them were relatively inexperienced still at that time. You know,
8:20
Speaker 3: the other thing I would just say, JD, I would
8:21
Speaker 3: love to get your thoughts here on the rosters that
8:24
Speaker 3: we have on display is, I think this is wonderful
8:27
Speaker 3: for the game. Chet, you mentioned Kim and Erwin Churio.
8:30
Speaker 3: These guys are stars. These guys are bona fide stars.
8:33
Speaker 3: But they're not household names in the game of baseball yet.
8:37
Speaker 3: But so, too, are these teams anchored by some veterans.
8:39
Speaker 3: In Milwaukee, it's Yellich. In Tampa, it's Yandy Diaz. And
8:44
Speaker 3: these guys have been two of the better professional hitters
8:47
Speaker 3: in the game over the last five to six years.
8:49
Speaker 3: Yellich got some recognition, obviously, for winning the MVP, Yandy Diaz,
8:54
Speaker 3: for being batting champion. But then you've got other guys
8:57
Speaker 3: who just people haven't really heard about guys like Bryce
9:00
Speaker 3: Turing as much. And I think one of the other
9:03
Speaker 3: elements that you see watching Tampa play Milwaukee is there
9:06
Speaker 3: are more guys on the field that are on the
9:08
Speaker 3: field for their gloves and the defensive ability they bring
9:11
Speaker 3: than most any teams will carry. So Taylor Walls, the
9:16
Speaker 3: shortstop for the Tampa Bay Rays, is one of the
9:18
Speaker 3: best defensive players in the game, bar none. And he
9:21
Speaker 3: plays shortstop for them every day. And he's also one
9:24
Speaker 3: of the lightest hitters in the game. 10 years ago,
9:28
Speaker 3: managers just would not start guys like that. For Milwaukee,
9:32
Speaker 3: our third baseman, whether it's Joey Ortiz, David Hamilton, these
9:36
Speaker 3: guys have not carried a big stick through the year.
9:39
Speaker 3: They're showing up in the playoffs, but they lead with
9:42
Speaker 3: their defense. So I think these teams have built their
9:44
Speaker 3: rosters very similarly in the sense that These two managers,
9:50
Speaker 3: Kevin Cash and Pat Murphy, value defense more than most,
9:53
Speaker 3: and they're willing to play these guys on a daily
9:55
Speaker 3: basis and allow their defense to play. These guys are
9:59
Speaker 3: preventing runs. at an elite level, if not creating runs.
10:03
Speaker 1: Is there, looking back at those teams, and John, I'll
10:06
Speaker 1: direct this question to you, is there a personnel decision
10:09
Speaker 1: or organizational strategy that you would approach differently, knowing what
10:13
Speaker 1: you know today? Is there something you're passing along to
10:15
Speaker 1: these guys as an advisor? And that front office says, hey,
10:18
Speaker 1: I thought this 15, 16 years ago, but now I'm
10:21
Speaker 1: kind of changing my approach.
10:23
Speaker 2: There are a lot of things that I'm getting an education.
10:25
Speaker 2: My title is the advisor, but I'm the one that's probably,
10:28
Speaker 2: I'm learning more, I think, being here than the other
10:32
Speaker 2: way around. But similar to that point, but also just
10:36
Speaker 2: to hit on the previous question too, like Thad mentioned Elvis,
10:42
Speaker 2: and Elvis was able to contribute to that team uh, for,
10:48
Speaker 2: for a number of reasons, but primarily because, you know, we,
10:52
Speaker 2: one of the things in 2009, when we called him up,
10:54
Speaker 2: I think he was 19 or 20 years old. We,
10:56
Speaker 2: you know, we didn't have the resources. We didn't have
10:58
Speaker 2: money to go out and spend. We knew we needed
11:00
Speaker 2: to improve our pitching staff. And the best thing we
11:02
Speaker 2: could do was to, you know, to, to put Elvis
11:05
Speaker 2: at shortstop and improve our defense and our run prevention
11:08
Speaker 2: that way. That's something that, you know, at that time
11:11
Speaker 2: we didn't have great tools to measure.
11:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
11:13
Speaker 2: You had, you certainly had, experienced baseball people that could
11:16
Speaker 2: evaluate it and see it. Now we have ways to
11:19
Speaker 2: measure it. And so some of the players that Thad mentioned,
11:22
Speaker 2: the Walls and Ortiz and Hamilton and others, you know,
11:25
Speaker 2: I think we're better as an industry, as organizations able
11:28
Speaker 2: to quantify it and to demonstrate that, hey, those runs
11:32
Speaker 2: that they're saving are every bit as valuable as the
11:35
Speaker 2: runs that, you know, the back of the baseball card
11:38
Speaker 2: traditional statistics suggest on the offensive side. And so, you know,
11:43
Speaker 2: it's always been easier, I think, for a young player
11:45
Speaker 2: who can defend to break in and give them time
11:49
Speaker 2: to develop with the bat. But I think it's even
11:53
Speaker 2: more so now because there's a greater appreciation for that
11:55
Speaker 2: skill set. And that's what I think makes, you know,
11:58
Speaker 2: even Caminero and Churrio even more unique is that, you know,
12:02
Speaker 2: they have, they're two-way players. They're contributing on both sides,
12:07
Speaker 2: but they're at this young age. They're putting up these
12:10
Speaker 2: really elite level offensive performances and hitting the top or
12:14
Speaker 2: the middle of the order for these excellent teams really
12:18
Speaker 2: speaks to their overall value that they're able to do
12:20
Speaker 2: both those things.
12:22
Speaker 1: Fascinating. Now, you guys have worked closely for years. John,
12:29
Speaker 1: I want to delve into your relationship a little bit here.
12:31
Speaker 1: Is there something that Thad is particularly good at that
12:35
Speaker 1: people outside of an organization probably never recognize?
12:39
Speaker 2: That is one of the absolute greatest listeners that I've
12:44
Speaker 2: ever been around. I think there is a skill, and
12:49
Speaker 2: not just the ability to be quiet and let the
12:53
Speaker 2: other person talk, but to genuinely... appreciate that person's perspective,
12:58
Speaker 2: to ask questions, to empathize, his willingness to put himself
13:05
Speaker 2: in the other person's shoes. I think that's what makes
13:07
Speaker 2: him such a great negotiator, too, and why he's so
13:10
Speaker 2: successful with agents and other teams and things like that.
13:15
Speaker 2: But it is really something. I think I learned a
13:22
Speaker 2: lot from him, but in that area, just the, the patience, um,
13:27
Speaker 2: the willingness to take the time to invest the time in,
13:29
Speaker 2: in those relationships and, and, and really understanding where the
13:33
Speaker 2: other person's coming from, uh, which is why, you know,
13:36
Speaker 2: he's such a natural fit in this current role and helping,
13:39
Speaker 2: you know, the other, uh, Brewers executives and their careers
13:43
Speaker 2: and matriculate and develop the way that they want to. But, uh,
13:46
Speaker 2: he's got a lot of skills, um, you know, we
13:49
Speaker 2: can run down the list, but his ability to appreciate
13:52
Speaker 2: the other person's perspective, put himself in their shoes is,
13:57
Speaker 2: you know, it benefits both sides tremendously.
14:00
Speaker 1: Thad, I think you're blushing a little bit right now. Folks,
14:03
Speaker 1: when we return, we're going to flip that question back
14:05
Speaker 1: around to Thad in regard to John here on Rosters
14:08
Speaker 1: to Rings. Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. We're going
14:23
Speaker 1: to dive into both of these gentlemen's teams, Milwaukee and
14:26
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay here in a second, and get a little
14:29
Speaker 1: bit more of their thought on the current team and
14:30
Speaker 1: the postseason run. But Thad, I want you to return
14:33
Speaker 1: the favor to John here. I'm curious to know, is
14:35
Speaker 1: there something about John that he's particularly good at that
14:39
Speaker 1: people outside of an organization never recognized?
14:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, so first of all, I want to say thank
14:45
Speaker 3: you to J.D. for those kind words. And one of
14:48
Speaker 3: the biggest gifts J.D. gave me I think I've always
14:53
Speaker 3: tried to advise the senior decision maker by always giving
14:58
Speaker 3: them additional ways to solve problems. I witnessed so many
15:02
Speaker 3: people put JD in the position of like, hey, we
15:05
Speaker 3: would be crazy not to do this. So put them
15:07
Speaker 3: in between a rock and a hard place. And I
15:09
Speaker 3: always felt as an advisor, your role is to come
15:11
Speaker 3: up with additional ways to solve the most difficult problems.
15:15
Speaker 3: One thing JD challenged me to do in my career was,
15:17
Speaker 3: in addition to that, also state what what advice you
15:21
Speaker 3: would give, because I think I was very adept at
15:23
Speaker 3: being able to support whatever we were doing. But you
15:27
Speaker 3: also have to assert yourself and you have to put
15:29
Speaker 3: yourself out there. And so I, he encouraged me to
15:32
Speaker 3: start keeping a journal one day of like, okay, how
15:34
Speaker 3: would you handle these situations? And that has served me
15:37
Speaker 3: immensely well throughout my career. It's something I passed down
15:40
Speaker 3: to some of the people I've been blessed to mentor.
15:43
Speaker 3: So I wanted to say thank you to JD, you know,
15:45
Speaker 3: full body. Thank you on that. But also, you know,
15:49
Speaker 3: the thing that, that jumps to mind about JD is
15:52
Speaker 3: really rugged good looks. And the fact that he led
15:56
Speaker 3: with that on a daily basis was impeccable. In addition
16:01
Speaker 3: to the rugged good looks was the fact that, you know,
16:04
Speaker 3: to be a general manager, to be a president of
16:06
Speaker 3: baseball operations, there is immense pressures that you feel, that
16:10
Speaker 3: you feel, you feel it from the fan base, you
16:12
Speaker 3: feel it from the owner, you feel it from media,
16:15
Speaker 3: you feel it from an obligation to your employees to
16:17
Speaker 3: do the best you could do. In the toughest, most
16:21
Speaker 3: crisis-centric times, JD, everything slowed down for JD. And just
16:26
Speaker 3: seeing him understand when there were eight options and there
16:30
Speaker 3: was immense pressure associated with pursuing any of those eight,
16:33
Speaker 3: he seemed to just traditionally pick the right one and
16:37
Speaker 3: do it with a poise and calm that just set
16:41
Speaker 3: everyone in the room at ease. Where does that show up?
16:44
Speaker 3: That shows up when J.D., I'm sure you'll remember the
16:47
Speaker 3: exact facts here, but I'm speaking kind of like generally.
16:51
Speaker 3: We were, I think, somewhere like six games under. 500
16:54
Speaker 3: and eight games out, or eight games out and six
16:57
Speaker 3: games under.
16:57
Speaker 2: 500.
16:57
Speaker 3: We acquired Cole Hamels from the Philadelphia Phillies. Everyone lauds
17:02
Speaker 3: us for making this move because Cole Hamels will be
17:05
Speaker 3: with us for a number of years, and surely we're
17:07
Speaker 3: not trying to contend now. J.D. announces at the press conference,
17:10
Speaker 3: we acquired this player to win the division this year.
17:14
Speaker 3: And I think everyone in the organization, including our players,
17:16
Speaker 3: took note of that. We immediately started playing at a
17:20
Speaker 3: different level. We ended up winning the division that year.
17:23
Speaker 3: And I give almost all the credit to JD. Of course,
17:25
Speaker 3: Cole Hamels came over and performed well. But just instilling
17:29
Speaker 3: greatness in the people around him was exceptional. The other
17:33
Speaker 3: thing I just mentioned, Chet, is most leaders I've been around,
17:37
Speaker 3: say the words that they want to absorb all the
17:40
Speaker 3: blame and they want to share all the credit. JD
17:43
Speaker 3: lived that at a level that was extremely authentic. And
17:46
Speaker 3: I think it engendered an incredible amount of loyalty for
17:49
Speaker 3: the people who worked for him. But more than that,
17:52
Speaker 3: we all gave our unadulterated counsel to him because we
17:55
Speaker 3: knew he was never scoreboarding. He was never going to
17:58
Speaker 3: take you to account that maybe you hadn't been on
18:00
Speaker 3: the right side of the vote the last couple of times.
18:02
Speaker 3: He took all the information and aggregated it made the
18:05
Speaker 3: best decision and then shared all the success with the
18:08
Speaker 3: entire group.
18:09
Speaker 1: All right so now that we've gone through that you've
18:11
Speaker 1: you've both uh shined each other up pretty good there
18:15
Speaker 1: i'm gonna ask another question here this is a little
18:19
Speaker 1: this may be difficult but think about it was there
18:22
Speaker 1: ever a baseball decision or a philosophy that you two
18:25
Speaker 1: fundamentally disagreed.
18:27
Speaker 2: On i have a decision uh that that um uh,
18:32
Speaker 2: decision point, there were a couple of decisions involved, but, um,
18:36
Speaker 2: the Rangers after 13, uh, you know, we had, we
18:40
Speaker 2: had the previous year, Josh Hamilton had left as a
18:43
Speaker 2: free agent. Um, we still had a very good club.
18:46
Speaker 2: It was a club in transition, meaning we were bringing
18:48
Speaker 2: up some young players. Um, but we were lacking kind
18:52
Speaker 2: of that middle of the order left-handed hitter that, that, uh,
18:55
Speaker 2: to balance the team and also some on base skills. And, um,
19:00
Speaker 2: new ownership, uh, relatively new ownership wanted to, to invest
19:06
Speaker 2: in the club. Um, and so we had a couple
19:10
Speaker 2: of paths to go down, uh, two of the hitters
19:13
Speaker 2: that we identified that could help us. One was Prince Fielder,
19:16
Speaker 2: who was at the time was on a hall of
19:18
Speaker 2: fame trajectory with, with the, you know, the Tigers, most
19:21
Speaker 2: of his career with the Brewers, but signed that big
19:23
Speaker 2: deal with the Tigers. Uh, and then Shinsu Chu, who
19:26
Speaker 2: was a, was a free agent. And, um, Ultimately, I
19:31
Speaker 2: made the decision to have a little bit of each,
19:35
Speaker 2: as I said earlier, but to have column A and
19:37
Speaker 2: column B. We signed Chu to a large contract. We
19:41
Speaker 2: also traded for Fielder, got a bit of a subsidy
19:44
Speaker 2: in that, so we didn't have to absorb his entire contract.
19:47
Speaker 2: um but that uh that dissented uh and he pulled
19:52
Speaker 2: me aside i remember vividly one day and said listen
19:55
Speaker 2: i just want to suggest that you know this is
19:59
Speaker 2: a lot of resources a lot of our you know
20:02
Speaker 2: future flexibility and optionality that will be given away here.
20:07
Speaker 2: Love both players, love the offensive approach and what they
20:10
Speaker 2: can do for us, but I don't think it's prudent
20:13
Speaker 2: to acquire both players at these prices, and it just
20:17
Speaker 2: limits us too much going forward. I made the decision
20:21
Speaker 2: to do it. Fielder gets hurt. Chu was a good
20:26
Speaker 2: offensive player, not quite the peak that he had performed
20:30
Speaker 2: his free agent year in Cincinnati. And it didn't take
20:34
Speaker 2: long for hindsight to show that Thad's counsel was right,
20:40
Speaker 2: and I probably should have heeded his word. But he
20:44
Speaker 2: was always great about not just being honest and upfront
20:51
Speaker 2: and being willing to dissent, but also about presenting it
20:54
Speaker 2: in a way that with evidence-based reasons and unemotional. And
21:02
Speaker 2: he had synthesized a lot of the other information before
21:06
Speaker 2: he would present his deal. And then equally importantly, no
21:10
Speaker 2: one ever heard about that. It was, hey man, this
21:15
Speaker 2: is what I would recommend, but I recognize that one
21:17
Speaker 2: person has to ultimately make a decision. And if you
21:21
Speaker 2: go the other direction, You don't have to worry about
21:23
Speaker 2: reading about it in the media that it was a
21:25
Speaker 2: split camp or any nonsense like that. I mean, it
21:27
Speaker 2: was a truly unified front, which in an organization you
21:34
Speaker 2: have to have. It's great to have dissent. It's great
21:37
Speaker 2: to have debate. It is great to have differing opinions.
21:41
Speaker 2: you know, you can only make one decision as an organization.
21:43
Speaker 2: And it's, you know, it's not ultimately a democracy where,
21:46
Speaker 2: you know, everybody gets an equal vote and somebody's got
21:48
Speaker 2: to make the call. And it's really important, I think,
21:50
Speaker 2: to have unity going forward once that decision's been made.
21:54
Speaker 2: And I always appreciated that.
21:55
Speaker 1: Is that common in a front office? Is it to
21:58
Speaker 1: have these types of disagreements?
22:00
Speaker 3: I think it's common in successful front offices. You know,
22:03
Speaker 3: I think you want to have really healthy debate dissent
22:07
Speaker 3: behind closed doors. But as JD said, Once we walk
22:12
Speaker 3: out of the room, we're in solidarity. You had a
22:14
Speaker 3: chance to give your side of the argument, and then
22:18
Speaker 3: we're supportive. So I think you have to have that.
22:21
Speaker 3: I mean, JD, I'm sure you recall early in our
22:24
Speaker 3: time together, you even pulled me aside at one point
22:27
Speaker 3: and said, hey, listen, if the whole room's going in
22:29
Speaker 3: one direction, can you do me a favor? Even if
22:31
Speaker 3: you don't believe in the other side, can you argue
22:33
Speaker 3: it just to make sure we get it out on
22:34
Speaker 3: the floor? Because one thing we learned very early in
22:37
Speaker 3: our career, making a few mistakes, I can think of
22:40
Speaker 3: one with Kevin Towers, ultimately, that did not work out
22:43
Speaker 3: for us is when we think something's a no brainer,
22:46
Speaker 3: make sure it's us that doesn't have the no brain.
22:49
Speaker 3: Because let's not assume the other side, they're a bunch
22:51
Speaker 3: of dummies, like if they're willing to do it, somebody
22:53
Speaker 3: is missing something, and maybe it's us. And so I
22:55
Speaker 3: think the most concerning decisions we ever embarked upon was
23:00
Speaker 3: when literally everyone in the room was pounding the table saying,
23:02
Speaker 3: let's absolutely do it. So I think we devised this
23:05
Speaker 3: kind of mechanism where we would at least paused for
23:08
Speaker 3: a second and discuss the other side. The other thing
23:11
Speaker 3: I just want to bring to light relative to the
23:13
Speaker 3: decision that JD referenced was, you know, there was a
23:16
Speaker 3: lot of pressures that were associated with making that decision.
23:20
Speaker 3: And I think part of what gave me a little
23:22
Speaker 3: bit concerned at the time was I always have thought
23:25
Speaker 3: in life, you want to make the best decisions by
23:27
Speaker 3: assessing what's in front of you, not by assessing what
23:30
Speaker 3: are you getting out from in your current situation. And
23:33
Speaker 3: in that case, I think we put a little bit
23:35
Speaker 3: too much of a thumb on the scale of the
23:37
Speaker 3: desire to promote one of our premium prospects at that time,
23:40
Speaker 3: who was jerks and profile happened to play shortstop second base.
23:44
Speaker 3: We just referenced, we had just brought Elvis Andrus and
23:47
Speaker 3: committed to him at shortstop. So second base was the
23:49
Speaker 3: most logical spot that meant trading Ian Kinsler, who happened
23:53
Speaker 3: to be the exact player that Dave Dombrowski, that then
23:56
Speaker 3: general manager that Detroit Tigers wanted for Prince Fielder. And
23:59
Speaker 3: so a lot of that just worked out very seamlessly with,
24:02
Speaker 3: to enhance our ability to promote Jerkson. And maybe we
24:05
Speaker 3: didn't put as much value into what Ian Kinsler was
24:08
Speaker 3: doing for the team at that time, because we viewed
24:11
Speaker 3: it as an ability to promote Jerkson and to get
24:14
Speaker 3: Prince Fielder. And as JD said, then to also get
24:17
Speaker 3: Chin Choo Choo and the move, those three moves in concert,
24:21
Speaker 3: we felt really elevated the team. You know, the irony
24:23
Speaker 3: was that Rugnet Odor was the one who actually then
24:26
Speaker 3: secured second base and was a really high level championship
24:30
Speaker 3: caliber player for a number of years there. So there
24:32
Speaker 3: was a lot of levers there that were impacting JD's decision.
24:38
Speaker 3: He made it with all that information put into play.
24:43
Speaker 3: But that was one of the most complex, I think,
24:45
Speaker 3: decisions we had to make. And we certainly learned a
24:48
Speaker 3: lot from it. Thad mentioned the.
24:51
Speaker 2: Point-counterpoint at a time that Eric Neander does extremely well
24:54
Speaker 2: is where he will ask the group, hey, guys, we've got...
25:00
Speaker 2: it seems like the room's moving this direction. Will anybody
25:03
Speaker 2: please lay out the counter-argument? I think it's important that
25:08
Speaker 2: we consider that. These decisions are not easy. The absolute
25:14
Speaker 2: best baseball teams in the world win 60-ish percentage of
25:19
Speaker 2: their games. The best front offices are making decisions at
25:22
Speaker 2: a similar type winning clip. It's just you're going to,
25:27
Speaker 2: these are hard decisions with human beings. And so I
25:29
Speaker 2: think it's really important to get the other side of it.
25:31
Speaker 2: And then something that, you know, uh, the first GM
25:34
Speaker 2: at that, and I've each worked for Dan O'Dowd and
25:37
Speaker 2: has been on the show as well. Um, you know,
25:39
Speaker 2: I know he, he would say somebody would get upset,
25:42
Speaker 2: you know, make a, make a point and, and the
25:44
Speaker 2: decision will go the other direction. I think Dan's counsel was, listen, don't,
25:49
Speaker 2: don't be upset when the decision doesn't go your way because,
25:53
Speaker 2: you know, be upset if you don't get a chance
25:55
Speaker 2: to voice your opinion in the first place. And, you know,
25:58
Speaker 2: really tried to live that way and lead that way,
26:00
Speaker 2: which is make sure everybody has a voice, has a
26:03
Speaker 2: seat at the table, either directly or through a proxy. And,
26:05
Speaker 2: you know, that's, that's how you're going to ultimately make
26:08
Speaker 2: your best calls.
26:09
Speaker 1: I remember that deal as a Tiger fan. And I
26:11
Speaker 1: remember Ian Kinsler coming over for Prince Fielder. And I
26:14
Speaker 1: remember being a fan being kind of confused. I wasn't
26:17
Speaker 1: quite sure what the Tigers were trying to do there.
26:20
Speaker 1: I know there are a zillion rumors around that in
26:22
Speaker 1: the rumor mill about Prince Fielder leaving Detroit and the
26:25
Speaker 1: reasons for it. I know Ian Kinsler, we loved him
26:28
Speaker 1: for the years that we had him there in Detroit.
26:30
Speaker 1: It worked out pretty well for us on that side
26:33
Speaker 1: of things. I want to kind of fast forward here
26:36
Speaker 1: a little bit. Let's leave the past, come to the current.
26:40
Speaker 1: The other day, I was kind of checking a few
26:42
Speaker 1: things out. I think it was around game one or two,
26:44
Speaker 1: and I said, what did the press or the media
26:48
Speaker 1: think of these two teams prior to the season. And
26:51
Speaker 1: I know Thad, we've delved into this a little bit
26:54
Speaker 1: on the show prior. And I pulled up an ESPN
26:56
Speaker 1: article that ranked all the teams at the beginning of
26:58
Speaker 1: the 2026 season. And I start scrolling down and I'm
27:03
Speaker 1: seeing all these teams that are on the pile of
27:05
Speaker 1: the dead right now. And I get to about number
27:07
Speaker 1: 13 and the Brewers are sitting there. And it was
27:10
Speaker 1: kind of like, well, they could make the postseason this year.
27:12
Speaker 1: They got a great shot at it, but the Cubs
27:14
Speaker 1: really are going to have something to say about that.
27:16
Speaker 1: And also the Reds. I think the Reds were even
27:18
Speaker 1: like 12th on their list or something at the time.
27:21
Speaker 1: Could be wrong there. But then I start scrolling and
27:24
Speaker 1: scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and I get to number
27:26
Speaker 1: 21 and I stumble across the Rays, who are picked
27:29
Speaker 1: to finish last in a difficult AL East division. And
27:35
Speaker 1: on top of that, 21st and, you know, they do
27:38
Speaker 1: bring up... correctly that uh ms would be you know
27:43
Speaker 1: jay rossky would be a huge piece of the brewer's
27:45
Speaker 1: success if they are to succeed caminero would be a
27:48
Speaker 1: huge piece of the race success if they were to
27:50
Speaker 1: succeed coming out of spring training what were your realistic
27:54
Speaker 1: expectations john for the race.
27:57
Speaker 2: I can tell you that organizationally uh we we both
28:01
Speaker 2: objectively and subjectively believe that we're better considerably better than
28:07
Speaker 2: you know than i think the outside view of it
28:09
Speaker 2: was um some of that i think had to do
28:12
Speaker 2: with just the the culture that that is is here
28:16
Speaker 2: and was amplified by you know some of the the
28:19
Speaker 2: additions this winter i mean nick martinez cedric mullen some
28:22
Speaker 2: of the i mean these are just i mean these
28:24
Speaker 2: are a plus human beings and just all world people
28:28
Speaker 2: and then And then some of the, you know, Chandler
28:30
Speaker 2: Simpson is just, I mean, you want to talk about
28:33
Speaker 2: work ethic for a young player, it doesn't get any better.
28:36
Speaker 2: And he's made himself into a Gold Glove finalist after,
28:39
Speaker 2: you know, he was a college infielder and moved out
28:42
Speaker 2: there and has really excelled. So I think there was
28:46
Speaker 2: a sense that, hey, listen, these players, both young and old,
28:50
Speaker 2: that are coming in here really fitting well. There was
28:53
Speaker 2: a really excellent vibe in the group. And then it
28:58
Speaker 2: was also, hey, you know, both pitching or should say
29:02
Speaker 2: run prevention and on the offensive side, we had reasons
29:05
Speaker 2: to like, you know, taking the over on some of these,
29:10
Speaker 2: some of the common sentiment. That being said, you know,
29:17
Speaker 2: the nature of the Rays organization is a very humble organization.
29:22
Speaker 2: You just never see our people pump their chest or
29:26
Speaker 2: beat their chest, I should say, and kind of push
29:28
Speaker 2: it out there. So it was like, hey, listen, we've
29:30
Speaker 2: got to prove it. But there's a sense that things
29:34
Speaker 2: are moving positively. And there was a real disappointment. I
29:37
Speaker 2: don't know if disappointment is the right word. There was
29:39
Speaker 2: a real... two years not making the playoffs was very
29:42
Speaker 2: unusual for this organization. You know, we had made the
29:46
Speaker 2: playoff before I got here. Before I got here, we
29:49
Speaker 2: made the playoffs five years in a row, went to
29:50
Speaker 2: the World Series, you know, did some really 100 games,
29:54
Speaker 2: maybe more than once, you know, did some spectacular things.
29:58
Speaker 2: And I think there's also a sense that we fly
30:00
Speaker 2: under the national radar by being in a smaller market,
30:04
Speaker 2: by not having a lot of free agent additions, and
30:10
Speaker 2: by building a club that is traditionally a little more
30:14
Speaker 2: weighted towards run prevention and defense, which are not the
30:18
Speaker 2: sexy things that get a lot of people's attention. So
30:23
Speaker 2: there was kind of a quiet confidence around the organization that...
30:27
Speaker 2: has played out, obviously.
30:29
Speaker 1: I think one thing we see is fundamentals. We are
30:31
Speaker 1: not short on fundamentals in this World Series. We were talking,
30:35
Speaker 1: my wife and I were watching a game last night.
30:36
Speaker 1: We were talking, we said, you can't really look at
30:38
Speaker 1: the Rays and say they haven't done anything right. I mean,
30:41
Speaker 1: they've done everything right. The Brewers just seem to do
30:43
Speaker 1: a little more right to get that extra run. Thad,
30:46
Speaker 1: I'll throw this question to you because we've talked about
30:48
Speaker 1: the Brewers a little bit here and their kind of
30:52
Speaker 1: season run and post-season run with Was there kind of
30:55
Speaker 1: a particular moment or stretch of games when you realized
30:58
Speaker 1: that your team might be better or perhaps different than
31:02
Speaker 1: you originally anticipated, maybe better than that number 13 ranking?
31:06
Speaker 3: You know, I think I echo a lot of what
31:08
Speaker 3: JD said. The Brewers also felt they were better than
31:12
Speaker 3: the 13th ranked team. They also for sure thought Tampa
31:15
Speaker 3: was better than the 21st. But there is the prove
31:18
Speaker 3: it on the field component. And I think Pat Murphy,
31:20
Speaker 3: the manager, has done such an expert job. Somehow the
31:23
Speaker 3: Brewers won the most games in the major leagues last year,
31:27
Speaker 3: yet he positioned us as the quintessential underdog going into
31:30
Speaker 3: the season. So Chet, to answer your question, I think
31:33
Speaker 3: he masterfully had that carry through most of the year.
31:36
Speaker 3: There was never a sense of entitlement in this team.
31:40
Speaker 3: There was a belief that they could win. I think
31:42
Speaker 3: there was like starting to brink on this kind of
31:44
Speaker 3: sense of expectation that we were going to win, but
31:46
Speaker 3: there never was a sense of entitlement. Throughout the course
31:49
Speaker 3: of the year, He sat Cooper Pratt because he didn't
31:52
Speaker 3: run out a ball. He sat William Contreras because he
31:55
Speaker 3: didn't run out a ball. He dropped guys like Christian
31:58
Speaker 3: Yelich and Bryce Terang and William Contreras to the seven
32:01
Speaker 3: hole in the batting order because they weren't swinging the
32:03
Speaker 3: bat that well. He just created this sense of humility
32:06
Speaker 3: and hunger that pervaded throughout the course of the season.
32:09
Speaker 3: I hearken back to one stretch of games where we
32:12
Speaker 3: played kind of the best of the best in the
32:14
Speaker 3: National League. I think we had a gauntlet where we
32:17
Speaker 3: faced the Dodgers, the Padres, And the Braves in a
32:21
Speaker 3: short period of time. And we kind of came out
32:24
Speaker 3: not only, you know, those are the types of runs
32:26
Speaker 3: where you're like, hey, if we could just keep our
32:27
Speaker 3: head above water, if we could just go 500, we'll
32:29
Speaker 3: be fine. I think we ended up losing this series
32:32
Speaker 3: to the Padres, but we ended up beating the other
32:34
Speaker 3: two teams and taking three out of four in Dodger Stadium.
32:38
Speaker 3: And I think at that point, I think everyone realized, OK,
32:41
Speaker 3: we're not only beating the average and below average teams
32:44
Speaker 3: in the league. we're going toe to toe with the Cubs,
32:47
Speaker 3: the Dodgers, the Braves, and we're faring well. And I
32:50
Speaker 3: think that's when it became real for the Brewers that
32:54
Speaker 3: this wasn't a gimmick. This wasn't just a good run
32:56
Speaker 3: in the season. This was something that could be sustainable.
32:59
Speaker 3: And what transpired last year when they ultimately were the
33:02
Speaker 3: number one seed, what was being repeated. And then just
33:05
Speaker 3: to link it to a question you asked in the
33:06
Speaker 3: first segment, Chet, about what would we tell these teams
33:10
Speaker 3: that we learned from before? And I'd be curious, JD's
33:12
Speaker 3: thoughts on this is, The Tampa Bay Rays sweep the
33:16
Speaker 3: Yankees in the playoffs. The Milwaukee Brewers sweep the vaunted Dodgers.
33:21
Speaker 3: There's a real ease of operations at that point just
33:24
Speaker 3: to have a massive letdown after that. Because those are
33:27
Speaker 3: kind of the teams that are the big behemoths in
33:29
Speaker 3: our leagues.
33:30
Speaker 1: Well, they're the big payrolls, right?
33:32
Speaker 3: If both our teams did nothing more than beat those teams,
33:35
Speaker 3: it would be considered a huge accomplishment. You have to
33:37
Speaker 3: go into the next series believing that you're playing the
33:40
Speaker 3: best opponent you've ever faced and treat them with that
33:43
Speaker 3: level of respect Because otherwise, all teams can beat teams
33:46
Speaker 3: at this level. And I think in 2010, we felt
33:50
Speaker 3: beating the Yankees as the Texas Rangers was a tremendous accomplishment.
33:54
Speaker 3: We then got beat by the San Francisco Giants, who
33:56
Speaker 3: objectively was probably not as strong a team. Similarly, in 2011,
33:59
Speaker 3: beating the Detroit Tigers, which you and I have discussed, Chad,
34:02
Speaker 3: on this show, had a number of future Hall of
34:05
Speaker 3: Famers on it, was a huge accomplishment. We then lost
34:08
Speaker 3: to the St. Louis Cardinals, who was the wildcard team
34:11
Speaker 3: in the National League. Any of those things could have
34:13
Speaker 3: very easily happened for our two teams. It's keeping that edge,
34:17
Speaker 3: which I think both of our managers are just wonderful
34:20
Speaker 3: at maintaining for the teams going into the next series
34:23
Speaker 3: after having some of those momentous wins.
34:26
Speaker 1: When we see that stuff and we see these, you know,
34:28
Speaker 1: these rankings in the media and they come out with this,
34:32
Speaker 1: you know, these teams are going to be the ones
34:33
Speaker 1: to succeed. These teams are going to be the ones
34:35
Speaker 1: to fail. You think a little bit of that is
34:37
Speaker 1: the payroll over personnel perception the media may push like,
34:42
Speaker 1: the higher payrolls are eventually going to be the winners regardless,
34:45
Speaker 1: but they don't really have a way of adding up
34:48
Speaker 1: the personnel and bringing that into the equation. Do you
34:51
Speaker 1: guys in front offices see that and say, yeah, but
34:54
Speaker 1: we got this and that team may have the money,
34:57
Speaker 1: but they got a lot of issues in here that
34:59
Speaker 1: people don't know about. Is that a thing?
35:01
Speaker 2: I think so. I think there are different areas of
35:05
Speaker 2: the media, right? I think, you know, some fan graphs
35:08
Speaker 2: maybe does a, a, a, a, has a methodology that's
35:11
Speaker 2: maybe a little closer to, you know, maybe how we're
35:14
Speaker 2: doing it internally than, than some of the others. But, um,
35:18
Speaker 2: I also, I think the payroll absolutely. And I think
35:20
Speaker 2: that the, the media is kind of, it's kind of
35:22
Speaker 2: the winners and losers of the off season, right? It's, it's,
35:25
Speaker 2: What free agents did you get? What star players did
35:27
Speaker 2: you trade for? You could look at the Brewers and say, well,
35:32
Speaker 2: a few years ago they had Willie Adamas and Healthy
35:35
Speaker 2: Woodruff and Corbin Burns, and now they don't have those
35:39
Speaker 2: guys anymore. Well, no, but they've done an amazing job
35:43
Speaker 2: of acquiring and developing players. these other players, um, that,
35:46
Speaker 2: you know, that, you know, Kyle Harrison, that, that didn't get,
35:50
Speaker 2: you know, uh, played a huge role for, for the
35:52
Speaker 2: bulk of the regular season and young player that, that,
35:55
Speaker 2: and among others and the same with the Rays, right.
35:58
Speaker 2: It's well, you know, Shane McClanahan was coming off injury.
36:00
Speaker 2: We don't know what we'll have back, you know, the,
36:02
Speaker 2: the Wander Franco deal and, um, you know, young superstar
36:06
Speaker 2: on the field, you know, take away the, the, the
36:08
Speaker 2: off field stuff for a second. Uh, they don't have
36:11
Speaker 2: those players anymore. And, and Tyler Glass now and Randy Rosarena.
36:15
Speaker 2: And so I think it's, I think without kind of the, uh,
36:19
Speaker 2: a way to measure and really understand and evaluate, uh,
36:23
Speaker 2: the young players coming up through the system and what
36:25
Speaker 2: they see in them and the roles that the organization
36:28
Speaker 2: expects them to play. I think it's hard for, for
36:32
Speaker 2: folks that aren't there every day and don't have access
36:34
Speaker 2: to these things to appreciate, you know, the additions, the
36:38
Speaker 2: quiet additions that, that these, these organizations are excited about.
36:42
Speaker 2: And that's why I think you see maybe a little
36:45
Speaker 2: for some of the smaller market teams and the teams
36:48
Speaker 2: that are relying on those, those younger players, it takes
36:51
Speaker 2: a little longer for, uh, some of the folks without
36:54
Speaker 2: that access to appreciate that.
36:57
Speaker 1: Every successful team, John, I'm going to direct this question
36:59
Speaker 1: at you. Every successful team has a few players who
37:02
Speaker 1: really drive its identity. Who were, who were those players
37:06
Speaker 1: from your perspective?
37:07
Speaker 2: Cause I think certainly, you know, Rass and, and, uh,
37:10
Speaker 2: Yandi and, and Cammy, uh, stand out as, as kind
37:14
Speaker 2: of the, certainly the headliners and, and the heads had
37:18
Speaker 2: monster years. Um, and I think, A couple other guys
37:23
Speaker 2: really stand out. I mentioned Chandler Simpson earlier, a homegrown player,
37:28
Speaker 2: college infielder. All of a sudden, here we are in
37:33
Speaker 2: the playoffs. He's hitting middle of the order, either third
37:36
Speaker 2: or protecting Cammy in some instances, depending on how Cash
37:40
Speaker 2: wants to lay it out. But just his style of play,
37:44
Speaker 2: the high-level contact, Obviously, the speed, but the immense, the
37:51
Speaker 2: talented defender. He's turned himself into a couple of huge
37:53
Speaker 2: plays that he's made there in left field. Really kind
37:58
Speaker 2: of from a brand of baseball. Taylor Walls, Thad mentioned
38:02
Speaker 2: him earlier, starting to get some of the recognition that
38:05
Speaker 2: he deserves. Just one of the truly elite, elite defenders
38:10
Speaker 2: in the game and has been for some time. but
38:13
Speaker 2: really is critical to our, you know, how we play
38:16
Speaker 2: the game. And, yeah, he's been tremendous. And then a
38:20
Speaker 2: number of the role players, I'll mention just one. He's
38:23
Speaker 2: not even a role player. He's playing center field for
38:25
Speaker 2: us every day. But Johnny DeLuca, you know, came over
38:28
Speaker 2: in the Tyler Glassnow deal. You know, and I don't
38:32
Speaker 2: know that he is a household name outside of, you know,
38:34
Speaker 2: the elite, really high-end baseball fans and race fans. But,
38:39
Speaker 2: I mean, just his... He elevated his bat this year,
38:42
Speaker 2: but the defense in the middle of the diamond is
38:45
Speaker 2: so critical to us. I could go on and on,
38:47
Speaker 2: but those are a few guys that really stand out.
38:50
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I was going to ask, who are
38:51
Speaker 1: some unsung heroes that you would identify on your team?
38:56
Speaker 1: Some of these contributions don't get nearly enough attention, but
38:58
Speaker 1: you just listed half the team there. It seems like
39:00
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of unsung heroes on the raise
39:02
Speaker 1: at this point.
39:04
Speaker 2: That's kind of how the team is built, is finding
39:08
Speaker 2: these players that have these great skills and can contribute that,
39:12
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, whether it's a young player or a
39:16
Speaker 2: role change or they were blocked elsewhere or a medical situation.
39:19
Speaker 2: I mean, Cam Boozer is another great story, tremendous story.
39:22
Speaker 1: Oh, crazy, yeah.
39:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, talking about adversity that he's faced and things he's
39:29
Speaker 2: been through in his life. on and off the field. And, uh,
39:32
Speaker 2: you know, he put together just a monster season for us.
39:34
Speaker 2: I mean, we're not here without his contributions and in a,
39:37
Speaker 2: in a critical setup role. And so, I mean, you,
39:39
Speaker 2: you've seen it cash goes to him as a very,
39:41
Speaker 2: you know, a Brewers lineup that has some outstanding left-handed hitters.
39:45
Speaker 2: He goes to him in, in, in big spots and, and, um, Yeah.
39:49
Speaker 2: So that's, that is a large part of our identity
39:52
Speaker 2: as an organization is identifying players with skills that fit our,
39:56
Speaker 2: our system. And, and then, you know, cash and staff
39:59
Speaker 2: are so good at deploying them.
40:00
Speaker 1: Cam Boozer is one of those that you don't see
40:02
Speaker 1: a lot of guys who get a minor league contract
40:04
Speaker 1: offered to them to start the season off. And they're
40:06
Speaker 1: pitching in high leverage situations and, you know, game for
40:09
Speaker 1: the world series. That's kind of nuts. And his story
40:12
Speaker 1: is incredible. That's a, that's a great call out that
40:15
Speaker 1: what about, what about the brewers? You got somebody who
40:17
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, drives your identity on that team?
40:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think it's a little bit of a
40:24
Speaker 3: throwback with the Brewers. You know, when John and I
40:26
Speaker 3: started our careers, most teams had a manager who kind
40:30
Speaker 3: of represented the forward-facing identity of the team, and you
40:34
Speaker 3: played Mike Socha-style ball or Joe Girardi-style ball. You know,
40:38
Speaker 3: back in the day, it was Sparky Anderson for you, Chet,
40:41
Speaker 3: in Detroit. It was Earl Weaver for me in Baltimore.
40:44
Speaker 3: Those types of guys were, they really set the tone
40:47
Speaker 3: for the identity of the team. I think Pat Murphy
40:49
Speaker 3: does that in large regard for the Milwaukee Brewers. You know,
40:53
Speaker 3: we are, we play small ball. He expects people to
40:55
Speaker 3: be exceptional defenders who can, who can bunt, who can
40:58
Speaker 3: hit and run. You know, I look back at the
41:00
Speaker 3: game last night, we had a rundown between first base
41:03
Speaker 3: and second base with Chandler Simpson, the fastest guy in
41:06
Speaker 3: the game. And they really did it flawlessly. And, you know,
41:09
Speaker 3: you see a lot of teams, even at the major
41:11
Speaker 3: league level kind of fall down in those fundamentals. We
41:13
Speaker 3: just don't, we just execute the fundamentals extremely well on
41:17
Speaker 3: the player's side. he's empowered Christian Jelic to deliver his
41:21
Speaker 3: message to the players. And I think that John and
41:24
Speaker 3: I could both attest to the fact that front office
41:27
Speaker 3: people can say what they want. Managers and coaches can
41:29
Speaker 3: say what they want, but players listen to players. And
41:32
Speaker 3: Christian Jelic espouses the team first ethos better than almost
41:38
Speaker 3: any player I've ever been around. He's selfless. He does
41:41
Speaker 3: whatever the game requires. And when your team captain does that,
41:45
Speaker 3: I think everyone else follows. So He's kind of at
41:47
Speaker 3: the heartbeat of the team. Now then, the engine of
41:50
Speaker 3: the team is really Jackson Churio or left fielder. Watching
41:55
Speaker 3: Caminero on the other side of the ball, Jackson Churio
41:57
Speaker 3: plays with the same level of enthusiasm and flair. It's infectious.
42:02
Speaker 3: When these guys do something well, they let you know
42:04
Speaker 3: about it. And they don't do it in an ostentatious way.
42:07
Speaker 3: They do it in an infectious way where I think
42:10
Speaker 3: fans on both sides of the ball can appreciate when
42:13
Speaker 3: they have big at-bats in game, you're going to know
42:15
Speaker 3: about These guys rise to the moment. Jackson Churio earlier
42:20
Speaker 3: in the NLCS was interviewed post-game, and they asked him,
42:24
Speaker 3: how do you handle pressure situations? He said, I was
42:27
Speaker 3: born for these moments, and I'm going to rise to
42:29
Speaker 3: the occasion. Somehow he said it in an endearing way.
42:32
Speaker 3: Maybe it's because it was translated for him, so it
42:35
Speaker 3: seemed as if it was someone else's words, but he
42:36
Speaker 3: was smiling from ear to ear as the translation came through.
42:39
Speaker 3: And I think you need those types of players. You
42:41
Speaker 3: need the guys who are the steady floor raisers, but
42:44
Speaker 3: you have to pair them up with the guys who
42:45
Speaker 3: are able to raise the ceiling. Because John Hart always
42:49
Speaker 3: said to us, JD, like the stars have to shine
42:51
Speaker 3: when you're on the biggest stage and these are the stars.
42:54
Speaker 3: And so they're, they're going to drive you. But as
42:56
Speaker 3: you referenced earlier, Chet, it's oftentimes it's those unsung heroes
43:00
Speaker 3: that are the separators because you assume the other team
43:02
Speaker 3: has stars too. So I look at a guy like
43:04
Speaker 3: Cooper Pratt, who was a rookie who last night had
43:07
Speaker 3: an absolute signature game. And, but for the fact that
43:11
Speaker 3: we were playing on the road, if we were playing
43:12
Speaker 3: at home, That would have been a walk-off home run
43:15
Speaker 3: as his fourth hit of the game. A home run
43:17
Speaker 3: he had not hit in multiple months in the regular season.
43:21
Speaker 3: He goes and hits a home run. That would have
43:22
Speaker 3: been a career-defining moment for him if that was in
43:25
Speaker 3: Milwaukee in a walk-off. Instead, it set the stage for
43:28
Speaker 3: what was an incredible bottom of the 12th, one in
43:31
Speaker 3: which Tampa ultimately triumphed.
43:33
Speaker 1: Another young guy who's rising in the occasion with what
43:37
Speaker 1: minimal Major League at-bats under his belt is crazy. Folks,
43:41
Speaker 1: when we get back We're going to talk a little
43:44
Speaker 1: more and get these guys' thoughts on the current World
43:46
Speaker 1: Series at hand when we return on Rosters to Rings.
44:02
Speaker 1: Welcome back. We've got John Daniels from the Rays here.
44:05
Speaker 1: Thad Levine from the Brewers. And I want to dig
44:09
Speaker 1: into the World Series, guys. Your teams are facing each other.
44:13
Speaker 1: Currently 3-1 in games. Exciting game four last night. Rays
44:17
Speaker 1: came back in extras. What has surprised each of you
44:22
Speaker 1: the most about this current World Series so far? Thad,
44:25
Speaker 1: we'll start with you.
44:26
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's a game of inches. We had
44:30
Speaker 3: a bit of a lopsided game three, but aside from that,
44:33
Speaker 3: the other three games have been separated by one run
44:37
Speaker 3: in each of those offerings. And more than that, I
44:40
Speaker 3: think the team that ultimately lost had chances to win.
44:43
Speaker 3: And one thing that our beloved Ron Washington used to
44:47
Speaker 3: always say, if at the end of the game you're
44:49
Speaker 3: one hit, one pitch, one play away, you can rest
44:52
Speaker 3: easy at night. Well, it's tough to rest easy at
44:54
Speaker 3: night when you lose a World Series game, but for
44:56
Speaker 3: sure in those games, you could certainly say that the
45:00
Speaker 3: team that lost was that. They were every bit of
45:03
Speaker 3: one play, one hit, or one pitch away from winning
45:06
Speaker 3: those games. I think the thing that I just want
45:09
Speaker 3: to call out, we haven't discussed him yet, What we're
45:12
Speaker 3: seeing Aaron Ashby do for the Milwaukee Brewers literally is
45:16
Speaker 3: unprecedented in the game. He's now thrown 18 innings in
45:19
Speaker 3: the postseason without giving up a run. He's been more
45:22
Speaker 3: than a Swiss Army knife. He's pitched early in games.
45:24
Speaker 3: He's pitched late in games. He's closed for the Brewers.
45:27
Speaker 3: He's pitched multiple innings. He's pitched multiple innings in back-to-back games.
45:32
Speaker 3: He has been an exceptional performer. I don't know if
45:36
Speaker 3: you can win the Cy Young in the postseason. I'm
45:39
Speaker 3: quite certain you can't, but if you could... You get
45:41
Speaker 3: some consideration. And I can't remember in my career when
45:45
Speaker 3: you would have a conversation about a relief pitcher who's
45:48
Speaker 3: not a closer being in consideration to be the MVP
45:51
Speaker 3: of the series, almost regardless of who ultimately wins. But
45:55
Speaker 3: I think the performance that Aaron Ashby has had has
45:58
Speaker 3: just been really, truly remarkable so far. There's a lot
46:02
Speaker 3: of great arms on these two teams. They are checkerboarded
46:06
Speaker 3: with guys who are elite performers, who teams out there
46:09
Speaker 3: would die to have. what he's doing to separate himself
46:12
Speaker 3: in this playoffs, just in this burst, in this month-long burst,
46:15
Speaker 3: has been really wonderful to watch.
46:17
Speaker 1: John, what's surprised you so far? Anything sticking out?
46:21
Speaker 2: To me, I was fortunate enough to be with the
46:23
Speaker 2: team there in Milwaukee the first two games. I've been
46:27
Speaker 2: to Milwaukee several times. In fact, I was there early
46:30
Speaker 2: this season. We played them at the first road trip
46:32
Speaker 2: of the year. Man, what an unbelievable atmosphere, fan base, environment.
46:42
Speaker 2: It was as big of a home field advantage as
46:45
Speaker 2: I can remember feeling. Obviously, I'm sitting in the stands,
46:50
Speaker 2: not on the field, but it was palpable. and just
46:53
Speaker 2: the whole organization, I mean, just the environment, the city was,
46:56
Speaker 2: was tremendous. They were great hosts. The, you know, they
46:59
Speaker 2: had the football tailgate environment pregame coming out and the, the,
47:04
Speaker 2: the tradition with, with, you know, the, the, the Euchre
47:10
Speaker 2: recognition and then Yount and Molitor and, and all the other,
47:14
Speaker 2: you know, great players that have been there. And, and
47:17
Speaker 2: it was, it was really impressed. I was really impressed.
47:19
Speaker 2: I've been to, you know, New York, San Francisco, Cleveland,
47:24
Speaker 2: you know, a number of other cities, Detroit, uh, with,
47:27
Speaker 2: with great histories, this place stood out, uh, as both
47:32
Speaker 2: as a city and an organization and a fan base
47:35
Speaker 2: of doing it about as well as you can host.
47:37
Speaker 2: It was really, I was, that surprised me a little bit. Uh, um,
47:41
Speaker 2: and then, you know, on field, you know, again, with
47:44
Speaker 2: the exception of, of, of game three and even in
47:47
Speaker 2: game three, I mean, there were, you know, that, that, that,
47:51
Speaker 2: one inning that got away from us.
47:53
Speaker 1: It was one number.
47:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was, and there were, you know, it was
47:55
Speaker 2: two nothing and a couple of ground balls that went
47:57
Speaker 2: off infielders gloves. I mean, you know, a ball's a,
48:00
Speaker 2: an inch one way or another. And that third outs converted, uh,
48:05
Speaker 2: you know, it's two nothing going into the sixth and
48:07
Speaker 2: who knows, you know, so obviously it didn't play out
48:10
Speaker 2: that way, but it's, uh, this has been an extremely
48:13
Speaker 2: close series, um, to this point. Uh, and, uh, despite,
48:18
Speaker 2: you know, the, the, the, three, one, uh, standings, but, um,
48:24
Speaker 2: you know, both the first two games, you know, finished
48:27
Speaker 2: with the tying run on third base. And so, uh, listen,
48:31
Speaker 2: I give the Brewers a ton of credit. Ashby, their
48:34
Speaker 2: bullpen has been unbelievable. Uh, their offensive approach has been,
48:38
Speaker 2: you know, very, very impressive. A lot of, you know,
48:42
Speaker 2: they're not chasing. There's a lot of contact, a lot
48:44
Speaker 2: of hard hit balls, terrains, defense terrain overalls, you know,
48:48
Speaker 2: has played just tremendously, but, um, It's, yeah, there's been
48:53
Speaker 2: a number of things that have stood out.
48:55
Speaker 3: Well, JD, one thing that I think is remarkable about
48:57
Speaker 3: that inning we had in game three was, lest we
49:02
Speaker 3: forget that the call at second base was that Christian
49:05
Speaker 3: Jelic was out at second base on the force out
49:08
Speaker 3: from Caminero. If we didn't have replay, that inning would
49:11
Speaker 3: have ended right there, and it's a 2-0 game, right?
49:15
Speaker 3: So it's amazing how the evolution of the game lends
49:18
Speaker 3: itself to better calls being made, which, of course, we
49:21
Speaker 3: all want. But that was the margin of error right there,
49:24
Speaker 3: was just that now we have replay. And I also
49:26
Speaker 3: think that that is the embodiment of Christian Jelic, the
49:29
Speaker 3: team captain, one of the oldest players on the team,
49:31
Speaker 3: most tenured, got a great jump, got a great lead,
49:34
Speaker 3: made a great slide. And he hustled to second base.
49:37
Speaker 3: That could have been one where he just decided to
49:39
Speaker 3: kind of Cadillac it to second because it was a
49:41
Speaker 3: force out and end of the inning. He busts his tail.
49:44
Speaker 3: Replay reveals that he's safe and then the inning unfolds
49:48
Speaker 3: from there.
49:50
Speaker 1: Watching this outside of that one inning in game three,
49:53
Speaker 1: as a fan watching this, I want it to go seven.
49:56
Speaker 1: Thad's a good buddy of mine and it's no secret
49:59
Speaker 1: I'm cheering for the Brewers here. No offense, John, but
50:02
Speaker 1: We've got to lay our cards on the table a
50:04
Speaker 1: little bit. But aside from that, I would love to
50:07
Speaker 1: see this go seven because the baseball has been incredibly good.
50:11
Speaker 1: If it's not the pitching dominating the hitting, the hitters
50:14
Speaker 1: are hitting timely. And then you've got Simpson crashing into
50:17
Speaker 1: the wall in left field. And then we get the storylines.
50:21
Speaker 1: My favorite part of the postseason, we get the storylines of, oh, well,
50:24
Speaker 1: you know, Chandler He got sent down to AAA last
50:26
Speaker 1: year because his defense wasn't great. I think it was
50:29
Speaker 1: Smoltz that brought that up at one point in time.
50:32
Speaker 1: And here this guy is laying out all over the place,
50:34
Speaker 1: making plays in left field. Like you had alluded to earlier,
50:37
Speaker 1: he's really brought his game up another level. And so
50:43
Speaker 1: I want to ask another question, though, because I'm sitting
50:45
Speaker 1: here watching this. We had Scott Service on last week.
50:48
Speaker 1: He talked about how kind of some of these things,
50:49
Speaker 1: especially pitching matchups, things that are a bit scripted. Everybody
50:53
Speaker 1: kind of knows who they're going to face. Um, to
50:57
Speaker 1: the two of you guys, what adjustments have you seen
51:00
Speaker 1: from the teams that maybe us casual fans aren't picking
51:03
Speaker 1: up or recognizing during this series? I can start with you, John.
51:06
Speaker 2: Well, I think some of it is, uh, the managers
51:08
Speaker 2: feel for their personnel, not some of it, all the
51:11
Speaker 2: large majority of it that I, that stands out to me,
51:14
Speaker 2: you know, uh, there are some platoons, uh, that, uh, are,
51:20
Speaker 2: you know, the, the, that are not being, uh, deployed
51:24
Speaker 2: the exact same way they were in the regular season
51:26
Speaker 2: on both sides, whether it's Hamilton or Tease or Vaughn
51:31
Speaker 2: and Bowers. Palacios has gotten some at-bats against lefties that
51:37
Speaker 2: during the regular season maybe go a different direction. I
51:41
Speaker 2: think you're seeing these managers that are very much in
51:46
Speaker 2: lockstep with their front offices, but going with doing some
51:49
Speaker 2: things that are a little bit out of the ordinary.
51:51
Speaker 2: And I think, obviously, the pitching usage, right? In the
51:55
Speaker 2: regular season, you wouldn't see Ashby probably go three innings.
52:00
Speaker 2: And I think some people say, well, he's not going
52:05
Speaker 2: to pitch in game five. Well, we'll see. We'll see.
52:07
Speaker 2: It's different in October. Push the envelope a little. Yeah,
52:13
Speaker 2: it's just different. Those are not things that you're going
52:18
Speaker 2: to want to do every day for 162, six months, etc.
52:22
Speaker 2: But in big spots, I think these managers, the coaches,
52:27
Speaker 2: the staffs, they're very connected with these players. They have
52:31
Speaker 2: a good feel for what's going on, things that the
52:33
Speaker 2: rest of us can't see, and you're seeing that play out.
52:37
Speaker 1: Do you see any adjustments to that on your side
52:39
Speaker 1: of things that the Rays are doing that maybe you
52:41
Speaker 1: weren't expecting?
52:43
Speaker 3: I think one thing that you see in the game is,
52:49
Speaker 3: so coming into the series, the Rays starting rotation headlocked
52:52
Speaker 3: the most innings relative to every other team in the postseason.
52:56
Speaker 3: They were almost delivering a quality start, which is six
53:00
Speaker 3: innings and less than three runs, almost every start out there.
53:03
Speaker 2: And we're seeing a little bit.
53:05
Speaker 3: Earlier deployment of the pen. And then You know, one
53:08
Speaker 3: thing that is just a reality of this is when
53:10
Speaker 3: you get down to nothing and then three nothing as
53:13
Speaker 3: they have, you start getting a lot more aggressive in
53:16
Speaker 3: terms of how you manage the pitching. And so from
53:19
Speaker 3: an offensive perspective, you're trying to get that starting pitcher
53:23
Speaker 3: out of the game and force the manager to make
53:25
Speaker 3: decisions regardless of what the rankings right at that point
53:30
Speaker 3: are games to games. When the other team is in
53:33
Speaker 3: a position where they're playing in an elimination games, they
53:36
Speaker 3: have to make those decisions all the more earlier. And
53:39
Speaker 3: so in game four, that the raise ultimately prevailed. I
53:42
Speaker 3: give a lot of credit to Griffin Jacks who kind
53:45
Speaker 3: of bent early in the game without breaking. And, you know,
53:48
Speaker 3: we were sitting there waiting with bated breath to see,
53:50
Speaker 3: are they going to start warming somebody up? He walks
53:52
Speaker 3: two guys in the first inning. He has base runners
53:55
Speaker 3: again throughout the course of the next two innings, but
53:58
Speaker 3: he kept resilient on the mound. And I think those
54:01
Speaker 3: are the types of things that can turn the tide.
54:04
Speaker 3: Literally the managers are counting down outs and, from 27
54:07
Speaker 3: to zero. And the more they can get out of
54:10
Speaker 3: their starter or quite frankly, whomever is towing the rubber.
54:13
Speaker 2: The better.
54:13
Speaker 3: And so as JD alluded to, you know, Abner Uribe
54:17
Speaker 3: hasn't pitched two innings at a time often in the season.
54:20
Speaker 3: He did it last night. Same with Aaron Ashby. He's
54:24
Speaker 3: not pitching more than two innings most of the season
54:27
Speaker 3: he did last night, but so too is it happening
54:29
Speaker 3: on Tampa Bay side. You know, there's a sense of
54:32
Speaker 3: when Tyler Wells starts going well, like When is he
54:34
Speaker 3: coming out? Well, you look at your card to see
54:36
Speaker 3: where the matchups are. But some of it is he's
54:38
Speaker 3: going to come out when he tells us he's coming
54:39
Speaker 3: out because the other team starts hitting him because we're
54:41
Speaker 3: just going to let him ride in a game that
54:45
Speaker 3: is tied. And you're looking at it and saying, we
54:47
Speaker 3: want to win it in nine, but we've got to
54:49
Speaker 3: be prepared to win it in 12. And what does
54:51
Speaker 3: our pitching look like at the end? And I think
54:53
Speaker 3: we saw at the end that both teams started running
54:55
Speaker 3: out of decisions on the pitching side, and it was
54:58
Speaker 3: left a little bit to see more and draw in.
55:00
Speaker 3: to decide the game at that point. Neither team had
55:03
Speaker 3: another guy warming up. Those guys were going to get
55:05
Speaker 3: a little run at that point, and that's just where
55:07
Speaker 3: we were at the point in the game and the
55:10
Speaker 3: decisions that the managers had left to make.
55:12
Speaker 1: Well, I tell you what, I can't wait for game five.
55:15
Speaker 1: This has been a great series so far. Both of
55:17
Speaker 1: your teams play excellent fundamental baseball. They've been on show
55:22
Speaker 1: here for the past week. I want to ask each
55:25
Speaker 1: of you this last question to kind of close things out.
55:28
Speaker 1: I'm curious, 15 years from now, When you look back
55:32
Speaker 1: on the 2026 season, what do you think you're going
55:34
Speaker 1: to remember the most? John, go ahead. We'll start with you.
55:37
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to take a personal angle, and this
55:39
Speaker 2: month has just been a lot of fun, quite frankly.
55:44
Speaker 2: I've been now with the Rays for four years. I've
55:48
Speaker 2: grown close with a number of the folks here, and
55:52
Speaker 2: I'm in an Airbnb with a few of my teammates
55:55
Speaker 2: right now and just traveling around this month. has been
55:58
Speaker 2: an absolute blast. I feel extremely fortunate for that. I've
56:02
Speaker 2: been able to have my family. They were in Cleveland.
56:06
Speaker 2: They've been here in Tampa. They've been in Milwaukee. I've
56:10
Speaker 2: had a couple of meals with an old friend, Thaddeus Levine,
56:14
Speaker 2: in Milwaukee and again here in Tampa. And so it's just.
56:22
Speaker 2: Feel really fortunate. It's been a lot of fun and
56:25
Speaker 2: hopefully we keep it going.
56:27
Speaker 1: I love that you call him Thaddeus. That's fantastic. We're
56:29
Speaker 1: going to keep that going over here on this side. Thad,
56:33
Speaker 1: over to you. 15 years from now, in the retirement home, probably.
56:39
Speaker 1: What are we thinking? What do you think you'll remember
56:41
Speaker 1: from the 2026 season?
56:43
Speaker 3: Hopefully still playing pickleball, but maybe more Mahjong in the
56:46
Speaker 3: evening than we're playing right now. So I will echo
56:50
Speaker 3: some of the things that JD said. I think We've
56:53
Speaker 3: talked a lot about the players. We've talked about the managers.
56:56
Speaker 3: One thing that I just will say, I think 15
56:58
Speaker 3: years from now, I'm going to look back. I'm sure
57:00
Speaker 3: JD could attest to the same. Some of the people
57:03
Speaker 3: in the front office will be running franchises at that point,
57:06
Speaker 3: not household names today. They will be household names 15
57:09
Speaker 3: years from now, Chet, because they will be general managers,
57:11
Speaker 3: scouting directors, farm directors, presidents of baseball operations elsewhere. And
57:16
Speaker 3: I think we'll look at this incredible legacy that Matt Arnold,
57:19
Speaker 3: the president of the Milwaukee Brewers, has created that legacy
57:22
Speaker 3: will hopefully include some rings, one potentially even in 2026,
57:27
Speaker 3: but more than that, it will be lives impacted. And
57:30
Speaker 3: I think we'll look at, you know, JD and I
57:32
Speaker 3: were blessed to be from the John Hart, Dan O'Dowd tree.
57:36
Speaker 3: I think we'll look back and see the Eric Neander
57:39
Speaker 3: and Matt Arnold tree flourishing. Their trees will be flourishing
57:43
Speaker 3: in 15 years from now. We'll look at the legacy
57:45
Speaker 3: that they've created, potentially potentially, JD and I will be
57:48
Speaker 3: next having a meal in Cooperstown as those two guys
57:51
Speaker 3: are getting inducted for their career achievements. And I think
57:55
Speaker 3: that will be absolutely wonderful. But on a personal level,
57:59
Speaker 3: the chance to work with some of these front office guys,
58:03
Speaker 3: share some of my experiences with them, hopefully continue to
58:07
Speaker 3: help them progress on their trajectory, which is to getting
58:11
Speaker 3: a chance to achieve the best that they can achieve
58:13
Speaker 3: elsewhere has been just an incredible, uh, journey for me.
58:18
Speaker 3: And then what JD and I can both account to
58:21
Speaker 3: is it is exceptionally difficult to get to the World Series.
58:24
Speaker 3: It's even more difficult to win it. It is somehow
58:27
Speaker 3: a defining moment in your career. The fact that JD
58:30
Speaker 3: and I both have gotten there three times is an
58:32
Speaker 3: exceptional thing that we will always cherish. The notion that
58:36
Speaker 3: neither of these franchises ever won a World Series and
58:38
Speaker 3: that one of us will get to be party to
58:41
Speaker 3: a community having never won a World Series. I think
58:44
Speaker 3: we just saw all the firsts in Texas of having
58:47
Speaker 3: never won a home playoff game before we got there
58:49
Speaker 3: to having never won a series, having never beat the Yankees,
58:51
Speaker 3: having never gotten to the world series, just how that
58:54
Speaker 3: transformed the community. One of us is going to get
58:56
Speaker 3: the opportunity to see how much a community was transformed
59:00
Speaker 3: on the most profound level. And we'll forever be affiliated
59:03
Speaker 3: with that. And I think that will be something that
59:05
Speaker 3: will additionally help shape our careers as.
59:08
Speaker 2: We move forward.
59:09
Speaker 1: Well, I want to say thanks to both of you guys.
59:11
Speaker 1: I know it's a busy week. Not every show gets
59:14
Speaker 1: to have a member from the front offices of the
59:17
Speaker 1: two competing teams in the World Series come on to
59:20
Speaker 1: answer some questions. John, thanks again for joining us. It's
59:25
Speaker 1: always interesting getting the perspective of someone who's spent so
59:27
Speaker 1: much time building major league organizations and especially hearing you
59:31
Speaker 1: and Thad reflect on your time together in Texas has
59:34
Speaker 1: been great. It's fascinating how much games change over the
59:37
Speaker 1: last 15 years and how many fundamental changes of building
59:41
Speaker 1: a winning organization kind of remain the same still. And
59:43
Speaker 1: I want to thanks to everyone for listening. You can
59:47
Speaker 1: find us wherever you listen to podcasts this Thursday and
59:50
Speaker 1: every Thursday on rosters to rings.
59:53
Speaker 2: Thank you guys.