Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BONUS EPISODE: Creating the Ultra-Violent World of John Wick with Derek Kolstad (CROSSOVER)

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BONUS EPISODE: Creating the Ultra-Violent World of John Wick with Derek Kolstad (CROSSOVER) · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
  You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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  podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. You know, even
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  with the green Light, we've we've chaotically gone between different storylines, and yet
• 0:24
  what we've remained true to is I don't want to look at at it as
• 0:28
  a sequel. I want to look at it as an John Wick chapter two.
• 0:31
  Because what the Faster Furious did so well is after the third one is
• 0:36
  they weren't sequels anymore. They were chapters. And I think those are the
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  best. Those are the best franchises to have broadcasting from a dark, windowless
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  room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's
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  the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching
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  you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Welcome to a special crossover edition of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. Now.
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  Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage
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  services, Bulletproof script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are.
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  So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers,
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  head on over to cover my screenplay dot com. Now, guys, today
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  we have a special crossover edition of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I have today
• 2:00
  on the show Derek Colstad, who is the creator and screenwriter of the amazing
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  John Wick. Now. This episode originally aired on the Make Your Movie podcast
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  hosted by Dave Bullis, which is part of the Indie Film Hustle podcast network,
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  and I had to bring this episode to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Tribe because it
• 2:27
  is pretty remarkable. If you want to know how Derek was able to create
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  this insanely wonderful world that John Wick lives in and how he was able to
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  get the project up off the ground, and how Kiano got involved in the
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  whole ball of wax. This episode is for you, so enjoy this special
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  crossover episode without any further ado. Here is Derek Colstad. Joining me today
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  is Derek Colstead. Derek is a screenwriter of John Wick and the upcoming John
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  Wick. To Derek, how are you doing today, Sarah doo, I'm
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  tired. I can't remember last time I had a weekend. But those are
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  good problems to have, so so Jared, just to get started, could
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  you give us a little bit about your background. Yeah, I grew up
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  in Matdis, Wisconsin. Uh, you know, I'm forty one this year.
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  And when I was a little kid in the early eighties, that's when
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  the VHS moon happened, and uh, you know, people ask me how
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  I got into this, and you know a lot of people don't remember.
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  But like in line at Shop Kill or wherever you shopped, you would have
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  a bargain been of VHS tapes and my mom would would purchase them. And
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  we didn't have cable, we can afford it. And on Sundays, especially
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  Sunday nights, PBS would actually show like the conversation and the Godfather that kind
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  of stuffed and so I snacked downstairs, and my love of movies, you
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  know, just began there. And uh, it's really interesting that I was,
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  uh, you know, growing up Matdis Wisconsin. You have a very
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  red family, very conservative, but very supportive, like I didn't lie.
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  I remember coming home from hem to a theater and they asked me what I
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  had seen. And I had seen Robocap, which any other kid would have
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  gotten into some serious trouble about, but in reality, they looked at each
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  other after I told him and just said, hey, you know, we
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  should probably support him in this. And so, you know, being a
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  Midwestern kid, though, the idea of getting into film was a dream.
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  And so when I went to college, it was for business, but I
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  kept writing and became I worked for Dale Carnegie in Chicago. And what got
• 4:29
  me out here is my little brother called and he's asked me how I was
• 4:31
  doing, and I broke down and started crying. And I'm not an emotional
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  guy. And the realization was I had to come out here to see if
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  I was going to fail. It wasn't a matter of success, you know.
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  And so I had my little golf TDI, and half the back seat
• 4:46
  was taken up by a large fucking Dell computer and a CR Team monitor.
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  I drove out here, you know, and I was fifteen years ago,
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  and apparently fifteen years was an overnight success. So that's a little bit of
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  my background. Man. And that was a great movie to pick, by
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  the way. Oh dude, dude, Yeah, you know the other favorite
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  story I tell almost everyone I meet. I was allowed to see, you
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  know, Raise a Lost Dark, but Temple of Doom was too demony,
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  you know. Uh So my parents went and saw it and I got back
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  and I was so excited, and I had my dad sit down and tell
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  me that the movie right from the beginning, and it was awesome. I
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  saw three years later, I realized my dad had fallen asleep in the movie
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  and just made up a story. It's still my favorite, man, that's
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  absolutely did you actually when you saw the movie, for one, when you
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  finally sold the whole movie, did you go with a minute? This is
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  nothing like what my dad said? Well, I could. It was funny
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  because I could tell the point where he fell asleep. You know. It
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  was the opening sequence in Japan, which is you know, just legendary and
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  then you have that kind of slow junpt between the first and second act and
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  my dad my dad's and the tories for falling asleep in movies, most notably
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  animated ones, and so I mean some of the stories we all share.
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  We the movie would start and I'd hear from the end of the hour,
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  oh it's animated. Thirty seconds later you heard him snoring. So good guy.
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  But still yeah, my dad fell asleep at Star Wars episode one,
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  and he had like afterward, somebody asked HI about the movie and he was
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  like, I had no, I don't even remember anything, so you know,
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  you know, So Derek, when you say you know you were you
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  were in college for business, did you actually graduate with a degree in business?
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  I did. I did, And I went got business administration, and
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  then a miner in English, well a lot of miners, because let's be
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  honest, it's pretty easy at a bunch of miners. And then I went
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  and worked for the family company back in Maizomin in Wisconsin, which is Wickholmes,
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  which was a construction company. And then I moved to Chicago. And
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  during this time I was still writing, but I wasn't I was writing short
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  stories and screenplays I wasn't really sending them off. I wasn't reading books about
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  screenwriting. It's just in college I suffered from insomnia and the only thing that
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  could actually get me to sleep is putting my dreams down on page, you
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  know. And it wasn't until that phone call from my brother where it's like,
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  fuck it, I gotta trying. You know. So when you were
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  writing, were you focusing on screenplays or do you actually you'll focus on just
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  writing, like you know, short stories, long stories, or anything anything
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  in particular. You know, I have a huge respect for people who write
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  novels simply because you know, in a screenplay it's like fat and exterior interior.
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  It's one sentence, and you read a great novel and it's like,
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  holy crap. They're spending time to just craft the world. And what I'm
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  trying to do is tell a good story that fits in ninety minutes, you
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  know. And so what I loved about screenwriting, what I still love aout
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  screenwriting is I'm notoriously fast, but more importantly, I can move from one
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  story the next, and that's why I like short stories as well. In
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  fact, you know, when I was a kid, I was the guy
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  who was teased at sleepovers because everything scared me, and so as a you
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  know, as a temperament to that, I got into reading Stephen King.
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  And Stephen King short stories to this day, you know, are a massive
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  influence. And I still, you know, I have them all behind me
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  on my bookshelf. I mean that that's glory. Dude. I can't.
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  I want to do what he can do in the short form, but he's
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  the master. Oh. Absolutely, did you have his book on writing?
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  I do. It's one of the few books on writing that I've read.
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  So, uh, what other books on writing do you do you recommend?
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  You know? Not many? My thing is like just right, you know,
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  I remember someone I don't know what the book was. Again, I'm
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  I'm more of a writer nowadays than a reader. But someone told me once
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  about the ten thousand hour rule. I don't know if you've heard of that.
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  And in reality, like I look at the stuff that I wrote,
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  even like four years ago, and it pales in the commarison how I'm writing
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  now simply because I've been doing it for so long that it's not writing and
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  rewriting especially, that's where the skill comes in. It becomes like an algorithm.
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  Like it becomes something outside of the English language. Like you if you
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  make one change on page three, you know the ripple effect. But you
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  know what to look for and to get to that stage, you just need
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  to do it. So you know, people are always like, get the
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  bad screenplay out of you. In reality, it's like your first screenplay is
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  terrible, and then you keep writing and writing and writing and rewriting, and
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  at a certain point you find your stride. Not saying that everyone will become
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  a writer, but you get better over time. And the other thing too,
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  is especially when I talk to college because nowadays I watched the films of
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  my grandparents and my parents. A lot of people haven't watched the films of
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  their parents nowadays. Like I'm very fluent in film, but a lot of
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  people nowadays when you hear they haven't seen Casablanca or The Godfathers, you know,
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  you name them, like you looking around my office, like Butch Cassidy
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  or freaking pulp Fiction or Miller's Crossing, which is arguing best film, my
• 10:00
  best my favorite film. Watching right man, listen, we'll be right back
• 10:07
  after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. What's
• 10:18
  that movie called Castle, what fucker. No, you know, it's funny.
• 10:22
  I heard Robert McKee whenever he does one of his seminars, and you
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  know, I don't know if you've read story by him, but he always
• 10:28
  shows Casa Blanca like day two or three or whatever, and he says,
• 10:33
  anybody in here truly never seen this before. More and more people are raising
• 10:37
  their hands, and you know he's like, well, well we're gonna spend
• 10:41
  the next ten hours on this movie. So uh. You know, you
• 10:45
  get comforts funny too, because you know, you hear when people do their
• 10:48
  top ten lists of films and you find yourself almost rolling your eyes, like
• 10:52
  of course, Citizen Kane. But then you put it in and you watch
• 10:56
  it and at minute thirty a minute five, like, god damn it,
• 11:01
  that's good, you know. And even if you're you know, I know
• 11:05
  a lot of people who won't watch black and white films, which astounds me,
• 11:07
  you know, and yet you watch, like, for instance, It's
• 11:11
  a Wonderful Life. Everyone's like, oh, that's a smarmy piece of Hollywood
• 11:15
  crap. It's an incredibly dark drama. I mean, he's killing himself.
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  I mean stuff like that. And when I encourage people to watch film.
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  It's like, dude, ask your grandfather, ask your mom and dad,
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  like what their favorite movie movies wants because even though you know the timing of
• 11:33
  movies has changed. You look at the bloom House horror movies compared to those
• 11:37
  in the sixties and seventies, they're sprinting. You know. Rosemary's Baby is
• 11:43
  really extremely slow. It's genius, but it's slow. But you have to
• 11:46
  watch it at least once to respect what was going on. Like Lawrence and
• 11:50
  Arabia, you have to see once. I'm not going to watch it again.
• 11:54
  It's long, but you have to see it once, you know,
• 11:56
  just to know that everything on screen is real. They really shot that in
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  too. Respect that and learn from him. Yeah, and very true.
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  I remember in one of my film studies class in college. By the way,
• 12:09
  I have a degree in business administration too, and I write, so
• 12:11
  you and I are very similar already. So I gotta admit though the PA
• 12:15
  degree is kind of bullshit, but you know we got it. Oh,
• 12:18
  every day in my life, I tell everyone, now it's bullshit. I
• 12:22
  sit here and go like when I still when I'm paying my student loan payments,
• 12:26
  I'm like, what the hell did I learn. Yeah. But I
• 12:30
  think the big thing about college though, is it really doesn't matter, like,
• 12:33
  uh, you know what your degree is, you learn to learn.
• 12:37
  And I think you know, when people don't go to college and come out
• 12:41
  here, great. If you do go to college to come out here,
• 12:43
  great, But having a college degree gets you into the mail room. You
• 12:46
  know, unless you know someone, you still need to have that. Sadly
• 12:50
  and a true a lot of the root of the positions that I see too,
• 12:54
  for like anything, if you want to work at the studio or you
• 12:58
  know, like for instance, comedy, I just put a philadine application to
• 13:01
  work there, and they all want a bachelor's degree, Like that's a minimum
• 13:05
  requirement you have to be bachelor's in something. You look at guys like,
• 13:09
  you know, Kevin Smith and Tarantino, they are a flash not a flashing.
• 13:13
  Pant's wrong saying they. I mean they're one a billion. I mean,
• 13:16
  these guys are incredibly talented forces of nature, and yet they're one of
• 13:20
  a kind. You know, very few of us are. You need to
• 13:24
  actually have that degree in your belt to get into the industry, even when
• 13:30
  it comes to but when it comes to like screenwriting or acting, they don't
• 13:33
  care. You know, good as good. Yeah, very true, and
• 13:37
  especially too because, uh, you know, Tarantino he just took a I
• 13:41
  mean, from what I've heard, he just took got like a two day
• 13:43
  film course to get an understanding. And when he wrote Reservoir Dogs, that's
• 13:48
  where he met Terry Gilliam, and Terry Gillham really said him, you know,
• 13:50
  this is what you have to do. And then when he finally got
• 13:52
  around and making Reservoir Dogs, he was like prime and ready. I mean,
• 13:56
  haven't Terry Gilliam sort of mentor you. I mean that was just like,
• 14:00
  you know, one genius showing another genius the way. Oh yeah,
• 14:03
  yeah. Well, and I remember reading an article with Jango about Jango unchanged
• 14:07
  and he said the line that only Tarantino can say, and it was I
• 14:13
  had to teach myself how to make a Western. No one else can say
• 14:16
  that. I mean, Tarantino is a guy who devours film, devours movies
• 14:22
  and has a respect for the shitty ones as well, which he should.
• 14:24
  I mean, you can you can pile shit on Roger Corman, flex and
• 14:28
  the stuff that you know a lot of these Trauma has done, and yet
• 14:33
  you watch it like I kind of get it. I kind of get it,
• 14:35
  and yet Tarantino loves it and he applies it, which is huge respect
• 14:37
  there. Yeah, I always heard Orson Wells two loved I don't know there's
• 14:43
  true not, but he loved to have film parties at his house and he
• 14:46
  would show like these odd movies and people would be like, what the hell
• 14:50
  are you watching Orson? And he was like, no, this is this
• 14:52
  is just something unique. And they didn't know if he was like, you
• 14:54
  know, making a joke of everybody or uses as just you know, playing
• 14:58
  is practical joke and everybody, or if he was dead serious. Well,
• 15:01
  and that's what I loved though about where we are techno technologically. You know,
• 15:05
  when you think back that when I was in college, you know,
• 15:09
  twenty twenty two years ago, I didn't have an email yet, there's no
• 15:11
  cell phone, and the only foreign movies that the video places had with the
• 15:18
  douci Ones like, of course it's good, the one the Academy more that
• 15:20
  kind of stuff. But then as time progresses and I remember being living in
• 15:26
  Chicago and the video place down the way it had a large Asian section,
• 15:28
  and suddenly you're introduced to Cholee un Fat and Jet Lead and you're like,
• 15:33
  holy shit, Wow, did I not know about this crap? You know?
• 15:35
  And now you know, with Amazon and everything else, like I can
• 15:39
  see movies like The Man from Nowhere. I can see movies like uh I
• 15:45
  saw The Devil, these ones that back in the day I might have stumbled
• 15:48
  across on cable, but now you're like, okay, I get it.
• 15:54
  Yeah, And it's very It's very true too, because I remember going to
• 15:56
  the video stores and you know, just having to like look at different covers
• 16:00
  and stuff like that, and I remember this one of the first time I
• 16:03
  discovered We've never heard of and it's like, you know, holy crap,
• 16:06
  this is freaking awesome. Man. Yeah. Well, it's kind of funny
• 16:08
  when you think back in the day, everything like in Madison was the video
• 16:15
  station and you'd go in and I still have a couple of horror titles just
• 16:19
  kind of emblazoned on my brain because of a whole how horrific the DHS box
• 16:23
  looked. And you end up finally seeing a movie you're like, oh,
• 16:29
  my friends and I used to have this like little game we used to play
• 16:32
  where whoever could find the weirdest box art that's what we like they had.
• 16:36
  They would have different deals, like I think it was it was five movies
• 16:38
  for five nights or whatever and for five dollars. And what we do is
• 16:42
  we'd find like them the craziest, like box Art and whoever could find the
• 16:48
  crazies, that's one of the ones we would definitely rent and then and stuff
• 16:52
  like that. Well, it's funny about that is we used to do the
• 16:55
  whole like who can pick out the worst movie? Right? And so you
• 16:57
  get two or three movies with worst movies? Is they're boring? You know,
• 17:03
  you've never I mean, the worst movies that are fun to watch are
• 17:06
  actually fun to watch. When you do that, let's find the worst,
• 17:08
  you're gonna be going. You're just be looking at your your watch going,
• 17:11
  oh god, it's still going, what was the worst movie you've ever seen?
• 17:15
  By doing that, let's see, I would argue that man Squito is
• 17:21
  up there. Um, and uh, they're kind of I think the worst
• 17:26
  movies I've seen tend to be the Friday night premieres on sci Fi. And
• 17:32
  yet what sci Fi did is they embraced it. You know, like Sharknado,
• 17:37
  I get it. You know, you're totally making fun of the ship
• 17:40
  you were trying to, you know, give us years ago. Um,
• 17:44
  I'll say this that I've only walked out of two movies. The first one
• 17:47
  is The Road Dwellville, which was with Dana Carvey and a smooth characters back
• 17:53
  in the day. Do you remember that one? Yeah, Matthew McConaughey was
• 17:56
  in at uh and I fear who the I fear who the person was.
• 18:00
  But yeah, I remember rode Wellville. It was just it was all.
• 18:03
  And then the second one was Sliver with Sharon Stone because it was like the
• 18:08
  psycho sexual thriller that nothing happened and every time they had sucked, she like
• 18:12
  cried. And after about twenty minutes, I'm like, yeah, I probably
• 18:17
  missed the sunshine right now, Anthony Hopkins, he was in Roode Wellville.
• 18:21
  That's that's right, that's right. You know you know that movie was actually
• 18:23
  based off of Kellogg. Yeah, I know that guy. I mean the
• 18:29
  movie is crazy, but that that life story is even crazier. Still,
• 18:32
  I was really close to walk out of freaking Episode one though. Yeah,
• 18:37
  I remember. Episode one didn't leave much of an impressional me either, And
• 18:41
  part of the reason I stayed is. You know, everyone I was with
• 18:45
  was a massive Star Wars fan, so they had like the rose tinted spectacles
• 18:49
  on. But I was just kind of like, going, this whole thing
• 18:52
  is a cut scene of a PlayStation game. When I was when I first
• 18:57
  sold I, you know, I I forget how what I was. I
• 19:00
  was like, you know, something's missing here, and I didn't at that
• 19:04
  point in time my brain, I didn't haven't, I didn't wasn't into film
• 19:08
  like I am now, you know, but something was was inside was telling
• 19:12
  me because I never felt this way about the original three, Like the original
• 19:17
  three like I'll just watch and like I'm entertained from beginning to end Episode one,
• 19:22
  I was kind of like, what's going on? Who's doing? Who's
• 19:23
  this guy again? Also, it's like the plot is the is like a
• 19:30
  political trade organization treaty thing, and you're like, wait, this is what
• 19:33
  we're after? Well, you know that everyone becomes a cynic at some point
• 19:37
  because I remember seeing Return of the Jedi in the theater with with my family,
• 19:42
  a bunch of friends, and I was the guy. I was one
• 19:45
  of those guys who was a growing number leaving going I think I hate the
• 19:48
  e walks. Yeah, I don't really, I haven't got to that point
• 19:53
  yet where I hate the e walks, but now will with age. I
• 19:57
  don't know why it just happens. Well, Harrison Ford hated him right away.
• 20:02
  Yeah, he called him the teddy bear picnic. You're at college were
• 20:08
  we're you know, you got your degree, your short writing. You're writing
• 20:11
  in your in your spare time. We'll be right back after a word from
• 20:17
  our sponsor, and now back to the show. And you know, so
• 20:26
  where is it that you started to say, like, you know, should
• 20:29
  I write screenplays? Was before your brother called called you? Or was it
• 20:30
  after your brother in college? It was actually in high school. We want
• 20:34
  my family went on an Alaska cruise. We you know, we saved up
• 20:38
  for this thing. And I wrote my first screenplay because I loved movies on
• 20:42
  in Longhand on a yellow notepad and came back and at the time, you
• 20:48
  know, we we have word perfect and I built up a template and I
• 20:52
  wrote it and gave it to my mom, who she gave me back my
• 20:57
  first notes and they were brutal, and yet looking back and reading that first
• 21:03
  screenplay and seeing her notes, she was actually being very kind. I think
• 21:06
  it was just I was. I wanted to emulate what I loved, you
• 21:11
  know, and I loved and I still love movies, you know, and
• 21:17
  short stories and movies were what I do, but I just won't wouldn't show
• 21:19
  anybody, you know, in fact, for a couple of years, the
• 21:25
  cousins. You know, I come from a large extent of family. When
• 21:29
  I got someone's name for Christmas, I would write them four or five stories
• 21:33
  and kind of bind it together. And that was my gift, and I
• 21:37
  just I enjoyed doing it. You know. It was never it was never
• 21:41
  work. And even now, like I would argue that your first draft at
• 21:44
  anything isn't work. That's fun. It's the work is the rewrite and making
• 21:48
  fifteen people happy and keeping it an afloat, you know. But to answer
• 21:52
  your question, man, I just I watched so many movies and it gave
• 21:56
  me so much joy. I wanted to emulate that. So, you know,
• 22:00
  you know, you moved. I'm sorry feedback there, Um, So
• 22:04
  I moved in to LA and then you you start writing again? Uh you
• 22:08
  know, so like what was your first you know, professional screenplay that you
• 22:12
  would call it? You know that that you actually were using a sort of
• 22:18
  like a take your foot in the door, so to speak. And it's
• 22:19
  funny. The first time to get my foot in the door was called The
• 22:22
  Wayfarer, and it was it was a sci fi thriller in the vein of
• 22:29
  matrix by way that's shining, let's call it. And uh, my two
• 22:32
  leads were African American, and I got on a bunch of movies. I
• 22:36
  mean, I got a bunch of meetings. And they were surprised because I'm
• 22:38
  a six foot two, white dude with red hair. You know, they
• 22:44
  thought I was something else. But I was wanted to see uh, Denzel
• 22:47
  Washington and uh, who's Murta I can't remember his name right now from dad's
• 22:52
  Danny Glover. Yeah, I wanted them. I wanted them paired up,
• 22:55
  you know. So I got a lot of meetings, and uh, you
• 22:57
  know what happens is I was used to the you know, the professional world.
• 23:04
  But you move out here and you get involved in the industry, it
• 23:07
  was different and it was hard, and I just kind of I stepped away
• 23:14
  for a bit and then I stepped back and I did a couple of you
• 23:18
  know, what would you call them, direct to DVD or VOD movies was
• 23:23
  the package and one was one of the Chamber, and they were hard simply
• 23:30
  because you look at you look at the package. They had like twelve days
• 23:33
  to shoot, and you have very little money, and you have people who
• 23:38
  don't care because they pocketed their paycheck and other people who did care because it
• 23:41
  was a movie, you know, in this movie they were part of.
• 23:45
  And so after after those two I was close to quitting again because to pay
• 23:49
  the bills. Even with those I was doing a lot of nonprofit stuff like
• 23:55
  doing videos and websites for NGOs and like. And it wasn't until I read
• 24:00
  this wrote the screenplay called Acolyte aka simple Man. That Sonya, who's we
• 24:06
  lovingly refer to as a script bitch because she's the first line of defense for
• 24:11
  quality, she read it and she said, I think you should try again.
• 24:15
  And a buddy of mine, Mike Callahan, who was a producer on
• 24:18
  those two titles I mentioned, introduced me to Mike Goldberg and Josh Adler,
• 24:25
  who are a new wave at the time, and they saved me. You
• 24:29
  know, everyone in their life at some point has individuals who saved them professionally,
• 24:33
  and those two saved me. And they brought me to where I'm today,
• 24:37
  So you know, just to diggle deeper into the script. Derek,
• 24:41
  when you were right now, you you told me you don't you didn't see
• 24:47
  a lot of screenwriting books. I don't know if you if you had read
• 24:48
  them at that point, but you did you subscribe to any sort of of
• 24:52
  you know, template, whether it's you know, I don't know if you
• 24:56
  read so I Sidfield screenplay or Save the Cap I play Snyder. I didn't
• 25:00
  say that the cat. I did really say the cat. That was great.
• 25:03
  I haven't rant anything by said Field. But I think my big thing
• 25:07
  is when I was a little kid, I was my whole family were ravenous
• 25:11
  readers. You know, I would I would probably read when I was in
• 25:15
  grade school, I read a book a day just because you know, I
• 25:19
  loved I loved reading, and I've always been imaginative. But when you read
• 25:25
  and see where other people's stories go, it's awesome. And my favorite authors
• 25:30
  at the time were Alista McClain, you know, and uh Dashel Hammett and
• 25:36
  Tom Clancy. And then when I was in high school it was Ship who
• 25:41
  wrote the Firm That was um crap Grisham. Yeah, it's right, it's
• 25:48
  all my bookshelf behind me. I could have just turned around. But a
• 25:51
  lot of like especially with Aliston McClain, Uh, you know, he rowing
• 25:55
  a guns and a barone. And what I loved about his stuff is if
• 25:59
  you look at for instance, uh once the movie Ronan did it Best is?
• 26:04
  You know, at one point Max Says asked the question do I know
• 26:08
  you? By way of the German or something like that. It's never addressed
• 26:11
  again, but by just by having that one line, the world kind of
• 26:17
  expands a little like a Boo boo a little bit bigger. And Alsta McClaine
• 26:22
  and hitch Back especially, they would have these lines that made their movies seem
• 26:26
  bigger and more complex than they were when in reality they were very simple.
• 26:30
  You know. Um, you take John Wick. I mean, it's it's
• 26:33
  a revenge story, but he's not. You know, I'll let people argue
• 26:37
  about it, but it's more than just the dog, you know. And
• 26:41
  I think the best movies are that it's more than just the sled, you
• 26:45
  know, Rosebut it's more than just the ring. It's more than it's it's
• 26:49
  it's just it hints at a larger purpose. And I think by not answering
• 26:55
  what that larger purpose is. That's where the movies I love coming to play.
• 27:00
  Yeah, and I know exactly what you mean. You know in John
• 27:03
  Wick, you know it is more than when they when they whatever happens to
• 27:07
  the Dog. I don't know if anyone who hasn't watched it yet, you
• 27:08
  probably should stop now and watch it and then come back because I am going
• 27:11
  to be talking a little. I do want to delve in deeper than the
• 27:14
  movie. But yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly, and you know it
• 27:18
  is interesting. I always am fascinated when I ever, you know, talk
• 27:22
  to an accomplish screenwriter like yourself, Derek, who what they've read and what
• 27:27
  methodologies they subscribe to. Because some people swear by Save the Cat, and
• 27:33
  I've had others here on the podcast who say, don't ever even read it,
• 27:36
  keep it away from you at all costs. Well, you know,
• 27:41
  everyone functions differently, everyone learns differently. Um, I don't know, Like
• 27:45
  people ask me like, where did these ideas come from? And to be
• 27:48
  honest, I don't know a lot of it is. Uh, you know
• 27:52
  what I've read, and who you are and where you are and where you
• 27:55
  see and how you see it suddenly comes into play. Um. But what
• 27:59
  I tell everyone is, as soon as you've finished a screenplay, write the
• 28:02
  first page in the next one, because it's kind of like you have to
• 28:06
  keep that flame stoked or else. A lot of for me personally, and
• 28:11
  I've talked to other writers, is when I finish the screenplay, it's kind
• 28:15
  of depressing, you know, because you've been with this story and now that's
• 28:18
  done. You're like shit, you know you were crafty in this world and
• 28:22
  now you hand it off. You have to start the next one or else.
• 28:26
  You know. For some of us, you know you know this when
• 28:29
  you talk to writers, I understand a great deal why people turn to the
• 28:33
  bottle, or turn to the needle, or turn elsewhere. Because when you
• 28:37
  get to the end of that novel, when you get the end of that
• 28:38
  screen player, even a short story, you feel very alone anybody. If
• 28:44
  you keep it going, you feel very alive. So, Derek, I
• 28:48
  want to ask you, are you a part of a writers group of any
• 28:51
  kind? I mean meaning like, do you have like a group of that
• 28:53
  you meet with me once a month is to exchange, you know, whatever
• 28:56
  you're working on. Actually, I don't you know Sonia is very She comes
• 29:03
  from a house of readers as well, and so between her and Josh and
• 29:08
  Mike, they tend to be my readers. And but what I am a
• 29:11
  part of his. You know, a guy named screenwriter named Matt Altman invited
• 29:17
  me to his screenwriter forum on Facebook and I can't remember who. I think
• 29:21
  it was Josh inviting me anyway. And what's really cool about that is,
• 29:26
  at first I don't want to do it until until after the first week I
• 29:30
  realized it's just a bunch of people encouraging each other. And I think that's
• 29:33
  incredibly important, you know, to have that group of people that when you
• 29:38
  have a question to ask, they're excited to answer because you were excited to
• 29:41
  answer them. And I love it. Yeah, I'm a part of our
• 29:47
  justist grip right now. We start about two years ago when it was we
• 29:52
  all A friend of mine got inspired because we were watching the Oscars and Karantino
• 29:57
  gave a speech about Jango and it just sort of hit me like a lightning
• 30:02
  bolt, and I was like, holy crap, why don't I just that
• 30:03
  story of writers group with some of the people that I know in the area
• 30:06
  who I trust, and just see what goes from there. You know.
• 30:08
  Yeah, well, and that's the thing though, it's like you, I'd
• 30:14
  argue, almost in every capacity, you can't be a solitary person, even
• 30:17
  though I'm happiest alone. I'm happiest alone with my computer and no music on,
• 30:22
  and just I love that. And yet I know if I stay within
• 30:26
  that bell jar, I'll get worse because I have to have those outward influences
• 30:32
  to make what I do better. And you know, for those who write,
• 30:36
  i'd argue, you know, seek out, even on Facebook or any
• 30:40
  other sites, or even locally, people who think like you, because a
• 30:44
  lot of things that you worry about they do too, and that's important to
• 30:45
  actually connect on. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and
• 30:56
  now back to the show. Yeah, it's very very very good point.
• 31:02
  And uh so you know, as you know, we talked about writers groups
• 31:06
  and everything like that. You know. Um, a little later, I
• 31:08
  wanted to ask you another question. Sorry sorry for the bad segue, but
• 31:14
  I have a note in fun of me I want to ask you so after
• 31:17
  afterwards. But you know, as we're writing, you know, I I
• 31:21
  you you know, you had the mayfares, you know, and then you
• 31:23
  I assume now once you were done that you started your next project. So
• 31:26
  what was your next pocket after that? I don't know, because he's Here's
• 31:33
  the thing is, I write. I write a lot, and I write
• 31:36
  fast, you know, and but a lot of times too, And you
• 31:41
  might have been the same place, like a lot of times are write the
• 31:42
  story to get it on my head. Uh it might not be good,
• 31:45
  you know, but at the same time, like, uh, it's haunting
• 31:48
  me that it's still in there. I think if I think of stories as
• 31:52
  people in line at the bank, you know, if it's fifteen deep,
• 31:55
  you're pissed, but if it's three deep, you're fine, you know.
• 31:57
  So I try to get those twelve out of the way. But I would
• 32:01
  argue that acolyte, which is, you know, making the rounds again.
• 32:07
  That one got me on the radar. And it was John Wick that that
• 32:12
  made me may be able to say that I'm a professional screenwriter now. And
• 32:16
  you know, it was really fun about the John Wick process was I had
• 32:21
  written it and it was originally entitled Scorn, and the character was in his
• 32:25
  early seventies. Because again I loved the movie Rown, and I thought,
• 32:28
  how cool would it be to grab like Comally Jones or a you know,
• 32:32
  you know, just an older actor and do an action piece that made sense
• 32:37
  because you know, I just wanted to see that the dog was like fifteen
• 32:42
  years old, that the wife had passed years ago. So my my agent
• 32:46
  at the time, Charlie Ferraro, who I love, you know, but
• 32:49
  over at Uta, he called me after the screenplay and went out and he's
• 32:52
  like, We've got like three or four offers, and I'm not going to
• 32:55
  tell you the numbers, but I really think we should take the lowest one
• 32:59
  because they want to make it now. And you know, you've got a
• 33:02
  great agent who is looking at the long game. You know, it's more
• 33:07
  important for me to get an okay pay day in a mad movie than a
• 33:12
  million dollars a no male movie, you know. And so they set it
• 33:15
  up with Basil Wanic over at thunder Road, and you know, we developed
• 33:19
  it back and forth for a while, and then he went out to directors
• 33:23
  and on a Friday afternoon at like one o'clock, Keanu Reeves called Basil and
• 33:28
  he's like, hey, man, I heard about this screenplay. I really
• 33:30
  like to read it. Could you send it over? So they careered it
• 33:32
  over and at four thirty, Kiana Reeves called back and he said, I
• 33:37
  want to do it now. Basil called me again. Man, I grew
• 33:40
  up with a guy, and I was. I was. I was excited,
• 33:44
  you know, because this is a very violent movie and I'd love to
• 33:46
  see him do this again. And the first time I went over his house,
• 33:50
  I walked past his den and on his desk, I shit, you
• 33:54
  not, were like two hundred screenplays. This guy's hobby is reading screenplays,
• 34:00
  And in that moment it was probably the most humbling I've ever known, going,
• 34:04
  holy shit, I was one of those. He picked it, you
• 34:06
  know. So that's how John One came about. And honestly, the title
• 34:08
  came about because Keno would not refer to it as Scorn. He'd always refer
• 34:12
  to the project as John Wick and it's stuck. You know. By the
• 34:17
  way, did you actually get to meet kianam Oh? Yeah? Yeah,
• 34:21
  yeah. I mean, Kanu is a incredibly bright cat. I mean,
• 34:27
  you know, you know, you sit down with anyone and their first two
• 34:30
  notes you're like, yeah, no shit. He got to his third note,
• 34:32
  I was like, damn it, that's better than what I had in
• 34:35
  mind, you know, and so he was. We spent a ton of
• 34:38
  time together on every character and every scene outside of him his own, and
• 34:45
  he is equally responsible for what's up on that screen. I mean, Chad,
• 34:49
  Dave, Basil Erica, I mean, this is an awesome production crew,
• 34:53
  but at his heart and soul, it's Kano, because Kano loves the
• 34:57
  character. And I can't you know, honestly, I'm not panting. You
• 35:00
  can ask for around and you probably heard stories, but he's a genuine dude
• 35:04
  and he's uh you know. For instance, when we shot in New York,
• 35:07
  he got to know all the guys at the coffee shop because he would
• 35:10
  join them for their smoke breaks and I was last day. It was like
• 35:14
  saying goodbye to your best friends at camp. And you don't see that a
• 35:17
  lot with especially guys of his caliber. Yeah, I've always heard that he
• 35:22
  is an absolutely awesome guy. Oh yeah yeah. And in fact, you
• 35:28
  know, my thing, my most surreal story, like something like I'm a
• 35:31
  nice guy, but I like being alone. He everyone knows his address out
• 35:37
  here. You know, the little little uh buses that go by with tourists.
• 35:42
  They stopped by his house and you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 35:45
  My fare was one day we were working on John Wick. His doorbell
• 35:49
  rang and he's got a little you know, uh you know, he's like,
• 35:53
  who's there? And this woman says him and names so and so from
• 35:57
  Boise, Idaho or something. Huge fan of heres. I just want to
• 36:00
  hand me the picture and he's like okay, So, you know, goes
• 36:04
  outside and hangs out with this teenage girl in her family for like five minutes
• 36:08
  taking pictures and then comes back in like who does that? That's it's unbelievable.
• 36:12
  It's awesome. But that's the kind of guy he is. Yeah,
• 36:15
  that is absolutely hilarious. I mean, I don't know, you know,
• 36:17
  if this is true or not, but I saw that apparently he gave his
• 36:22
  Matrix two and three money away to the special effects guys. I don't know
• 36:25
  if that's true or not, but it is true. And the other thing
• 36:28
  that I thought was really cool is because you know, Chad was his stunt
• 36:34
  double in the Matrix. He Kiano hired. Who's the guy that makes the
• 36:39
  custom bikes motorcycles, the Jesse James. Now I'm sorry about Yeah, it
• 36:45
  was Jesse James. For a while, it wasn't. It was because I
• 36:46
  think I think it's Jesse James. But like Keanu As, not only did
• 36:50
  he give away his bonus money, he had everyone on the stunt team made
• 36:55
  customized motorcycles that were delivered by Jesse James, and uh, it's just stuff
• 37:00
  like that where you know, he didn't have to do that. And yeah,
• 37:04
  you could argue that he's a multi millionaire whatever, but again he's just
• 37:08
  he's a unique and generous, you know, a generous man, and that's
• 37:14
  that's absolutely awesome. And you know, for him to get into the John
• 37:16
  Wood character, you know, when you finally saw the movie and you finally
• 37:21
  you know, sold everything playing out, you know what we what were your
• 37:22
  initial thoughts when you finally saw his finished product. That's a great question,
• 37:27
  because we when we saw the Friends and Family, you know that, like
• 37:30
  the first cut in the movie, I had no idea. I because when
• 37:36
  you get to a point in rewriting, you're not seeing words anymore. You're
• 37:38
  just seeing kind of numbers. I don't know if that makes sense. And
• 37:40
  so when we saw it, I remember looking at over it at Sonia first
• 37:45
  going was it good? Like I didn't hate it? I didn't, I
• 37:49
  didn't know, and she was and she by her expression, I knew it
• 37:52
  was, you know. And this the moment that hit it home for me
• 37:57
  is when we did our initial screening at the Dome out here at the Arc
• 38:01
  Light, we're doing a Q and A afterwards, and the seven I don't
• 38:07
  know, at seven hundred seats, I don't know, it was a pretty
• 38:08
  big for him. But I, you know, I showed up and I
• 38:12
  didn't watch the movie because at that point you'd seen it so many times.
• 38:15
  But I scanned the audience to find the people who didn't want to be there,
• 38:17
  and at about minute twenty, everyone would had his huge grin. And
• 38:23
  you know, my favorite movie and experience in my life, and I tell
• 38:28
  it to almost everyone I meet, is when The Raid came out. Have
• 38:30
  you seen the Raid? Absolutely? Okay, when the Raid came out.
• 38:35
  I loved the trailer and I loved Meranto, which I think that's the name
• 38:38
  movement the movie he made. Before that, we walk into the theater with
• 38:43
  the arc Light here in past in it it's a smaller theater, like one
• 38:45
  hundred and thirty seats or even maybe even less, And if you looked at
• 38:47
  the audience, it was every sex, every age, every color, every
• 38:52
  Creed. It was weird, you know, it was like a serial killer's
• 38:55
  daydream. It was bizarre. Like if you ask people what are they here
• 38:59
  to see? You don't know. But we sat down. It was sold
• 39:02
  out, and when the reverse door guillotine happened, I leaned forward in my
• 39:07
  seat and looked around like you did when you're twelve years old. At the
• 39:10
  end of the eye was a seventy year old Korea man who's doing the same
• 39:14
  thing, and he pointed at me in mouth. Did you see that?
• 39:17
  Oh? And when I watched people watching John Wick, especially during that house
• 39:22
  invasion, and to see a guy who's sixty eight years old lead for as
• 39:25
  chair and look around, that made my That made my life man, you
• 39:30
  know, because that's that's that's why I wanted to bring out of Peopoint.
• 39:34
  So what I want to bring out people now? You know, Yeah,
• 39:37
  it is phenomenal way that that you know, movies can bring people together like
• 39:40
  that. Well, especially what I loved about, you know, the John
• 39:45
  Wick process or even the release was the number of older people or you know,
• 39:50
  again you know, action movie. But it's got a huge female fan
• 39:52
  base just because you know a lot of people will say, uh, you'll
• 39:58
  you'll hear the term grounded, which means cheap, elevated, which means good.
• 40:01
  You know, it's like I want to make an elevated horror, like
• 40:04
  we want to make a good horror or a good action piece. And what
• 40:07
  I loved about the John Wick process is from the original speck of the bones
• 40:13
  and the muscle mass remained the same. It was just the skin in the
• 40:15
  hair that was massaged in by everyone involved. And again thunder Road and the
• 40:20
  directors and Kiano and al Lionsgate, they just we'll be right back after a
• 40:27
  word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. At any point
• 40:36
  any production, everyone hates everybody because you're just tired. And yet when we
• 40:40
  did that Q and A following that, you just saw the joy in going.
• 40:45
  You know, it's it's a major miracle to have a movie made.
• 40:47
  It's even more so to have it be anything good or let alone critical and
• 40:52
  financial success. So I use the term a lot like I'm humbled, and
• 40:57
  I am you know, because you know, you look at all the other
• 41:00
  stuff I have on my platter. It's it's horrifying because you're like, can
• 41:05
  I can I can I do what I just did. We'll see And speaking
• 41:08
  of that, you know I saw John Wick two was just announced. Yeah,
• 41:12
  yeah, In fact, I mean, Kiana's got the latest draft of
• 41:15
  script and we're gonna be talking about this Sunday. Um, he loves it.
• 41:20
  I mean the body counts is probably three times bigger. And um,
• 41:23
  what I love about Kiano two is you look at a guy who is he
• 41:27
  fifty fifty one, I don't remember, but he wants to do He hates
• 41:31
  when people refer to what he does as stunts because it's not. It's him
• 41:36
  and he's really doing this stuff. And when you look at that movie and
• 41:40
  try to copy what he does, I can't. Twelve years younger than him,
• 41:45
  It's like I can't do that. And yet he beat the shit out
• 41:49
  of himself and he did it with a grin, and he is kind of
• 41:52
  like, you know, he sees that I love that man's workout it and
• 41:58
  that you know that that's also and that's indicative. Everything I've always heard about
• 42:01
  Kiano was that he is, uh, you know, a guy that's willing
• 42:04
  to go the extra mile, you know. And so when so I want
• 42:07
  to ask you, is Derek, is how from what point did you start
• 42:12
  working on John Wick two. Did you know that? I mean did they?
• 42:15
  Did they immediately green light it and say get to work on it,
• 42:19
  Derek, Or did you start working on it already? No? I mean
• 42:22
  I hadn't started working on it, um because when you start, when you
• 42:25
  get a movie in production, your life is reread hell, and it's just
• 42:30
  it's it's continual. And what I learned too is when I was out in
• 42:32
  New York on the shoot, it was hard for me to do anything else
• 42:37
  because every ten minutes, even though you're doing very minimal labor, you have
• 42:42
  someone coming in and asking, Hey, what's the nurse's name? You know,
• 42:44
  in the hospital, Like I, who gives a shit? But you
• 42:45
  know, they came to me for that. I spent I spent about five
• 42:49
  weeks just playing Civilization five on my laptop because I couldn't. I couldn't work
• 42:53
  on anything else, you know. And yet um, you know, for
• 42:58
  a couple of days every week Keiana would come back, we'd have lunch,
• 43:01
  and we'd lunch with about in mind named Todd, who you know, he
• 43:07
  does um, all the the what we call it, all the artwork,
• 43:12
  you know, all that kind of stuff. And Keana one day asked me,
• 43:15
  is like, so, you know, where do you see John going
• 43:19
  next? You know, how many do you see in your head? And
• 43:22
  I looked him and I was like, I got seven. I got seven
• 43:24
  of him and he laughed and I pitched him two and three and four and
• 43:29
  you could see him kind of not grow pale, but go, okay,
• 43:31
  let's just focus on the next one, all right, um? And so
• 43:35
  I didn't start it. And to be honest, it's even in you know,
• 43:40
  even with the green Light, we've we've chaotically gone between different storylines,
• 43:49
  and yet what we've remained true too is I don't want to look at at
• 43:53
  it as a sequel. I want to look at it as an you know,
• 43:55
  John Wick chapter two, because what the Faster Furious did so well is
• 44:00
  after the third one is they weren't sequels anymore. They were chapters. And
• 44:05
  I think those are the best, Those are the best franchises to have,
• 44:07
  you know, I would, you know, Empire strikes Back, it's not
• 44:10
  a sequel, it's a chapter. You know, most sequels are remakes of
• 44:14
  the first one, and with this one, you want it to be unique
• 44:16
  but familiar, you know. Yeah, And that's that's a great way to
• 44:21
  put the two different chapters. Yeah, I mean, and that's why you
• 44:24
  can't help but respect about the Fast and the Furious movies, even if you
• 44:28
  don't like them. Each one got better, you know at a certain point.
• 44:31
  And you know, people ask me what I watch and like, I
• 44:35
  gotta be honest, I haven't seen it, yes, but you know I'm
• 44:37
  gonna love mad Max. I mean, I've been watching that trailer every day
• 44:42
  on a deafening TV screen with my arms out wide, grinning because that's what
• 44:47
  I want to do. You know. Yeah, everyone I know who who
• 44:52
  was seen as loved it. I haven't seen it yet either. Yeah,
• 44:54
  did you did you see Fast? If you're a seven, I'm really behind
• 44:59
  on everything, aroun And you know what I've I've learned too, is when
• 45:00
  you when you write like this or you get to this, you know degree
• 45:06
  of success. I would argue, I don't I don't like going to the
• 45:08
  theater um simply because I'm alone most of the time, and when you sit
• 45:14
  down with a bunch of strangers, it's a bit of anxiety, and you're
• 45:16
  watching a movie, and when you find yourself not liking it, you're suddenly
• 45:21
  reminded that people don't like what you do. It's weird, you know,
• 45:23
  I like it's it's weird. I mean, I love movies, man,
• 45:27
  but I like him. Now I'm the privacy mail on the home. I
• 45:31
  did he teach his own you know, And sometimes I told you what you're
• 45:36
  saying because I sometimes just like to watch movies in my own home too.
• 45:38
  Um. That's why. Like when It Follows was coming out and they were
• 45:42
  like, oh, by the way, we're going to VOD the same day
• 45:44
  as theater. I was like, oh good, I can just stay home
• 45:46
  now, order a pizza, and I can watch It Follows at home.
• 45:50
  And then they pulled it out to POD. So I ended up, you
• 45:52
  know, because it did better in theaters and they expect that it was going
• 45:54
  to do. So now I've pulled up Netflix and what was why to something
• 46:00
  else? Well, it's like the event movies, I you know, I'll
• 46:04
  go see in the theater. And to be honest, my favorite movies to
• 46:06
  see in the theater are the ones that are aimed directly at kids, because
• 46:09
  you know, the cynicism really hasn't sunk in. And to go watch like,
• 46:15
  you know, anything but Pisar, you know, or a lot of
• 46:20
  Disney stuff and to look across. And you know when we saw the movie
• 46:22
  Frozen, it was a couple of weeks out and the little kids in front
• 46:27
  of us were singing along to every song. And in that moment, like
• 46:30
  you could be an irritated old manner, you can go like that's movie magic.
• 46:34
  You know, these little kids love the movie so much they're singing along,
• 46:37
  and you know, in this day, that was all. I just
• 46:40
  love that memory. And you know that's what movies do. They help,
• 46:44
  They give those memories. Yeah, and I mean you think of the movies
• 46:47
  that make you cry. I was a little kid. I mean I wept
• 46:51
  it Freaking Fox and the Hound. You know, I wept it when Et
• 46:55
  came back to life. You know, the days get older and older,
• 46:59
  it's always it changes, like what affects you. I think the last movie
• 47:01
  I cried in was Big Fish. Of all movies, Like I was dating
• 47:07
  Sony at the time, and it's you know, any kind of father's son
• 47:09
  by you know, any story gets me. And when he tells his father
• 47:14
  at the Endnister's breaking down. I was a blubbering mess and it's like you
• 47:17
  got me, man. Congratulation, Yeah, that man what's the last movie
• 47:23
  that made you cry that made me cry? Yeah, I'm not even sure.
• 47:30
  Yeah, um, that's a good question. I have to think about
• 47:35
  that. Derek, my favorite wash I went to go see Wally and h
• 47:43
  I would argue at the beginning of Wally is one of the best in cinema
• 47:45
  because it just showed you true loneliness. And as a writer, you'll you
• 47:50
  you know that you you tap into loneliness. And I at the end of
• 47:53
  the Island, my buddy jac it's there's a quiet movie that I just hear.
• 47:58
  I hear him quite tears his eyes, like, God, damn it,
• 48:00
  Pixar, you got me again. They are phenomenal at that. But
• 48:06
  they respect the process. Man. They take their time. Yes, there's
• 48:10
  so many good points about pixere that, like of what they do with their
• 48:15
  stories and how how they structure them and the characters and the and everything you
• 48:20
  know, And it's just that's why there's so many I mean, if you
• 48:22
  go like speed of screenwrinning books, if you go like look online, there's
• 48:25
  so many screenwrinning books now about like do I get the Pixar a way whatever?
• 48:29
  You know what I mean, because you know they are the guys you
• 48:31
  want to emulate. But also, you know, I think the best filmmakers
• 48:36
  love love their characters. You know, in the Pixar movies, you can
• 48:38
  tell that they love their characters, even the bad guys, you know,
• 48:43
  and I think that's important. I mean, what's been great in developing John
• 48:46
  Wick two is we love John Wick, you know. I mean he was
• 48:50
  the Bobby Yaga, he was the devil, and there may be a bit
• 48:52
  of that still inside of him, but there's something about that you love,
• 48:59
  you know. And the best movies are either the ones where everyone hated each
• 49:02
  other on the set or loved each other. Yeah, and I heard there's
• 49:07
  a lot of frictional mad max it so oh yeah, Well did you read
• 49:10
  that article with Tom Hardy Hardy saying as soon as he saw the movie,
• 49:14
  he apologized to George. Yeah, yeah, that's that's what I saw.
• 49:19
  And then I saw apparently like at the con Film vessel they were like he
• 49:22
  apologized for some of his behavior or something, or apparently something there's some friction
• 49:25
  about something. Well, you know, and that's a thing about the industry
• 49:30
  that a lot of people don't understand until you're really here, is you can
• 49:35
  we can bemoan the fact that stars can be odd people who are assholes at
• 49:40
  from time to time. But I do not envy their position. I mean,
• 49:45
  especially when you see it firsthand how people treat them, and I would
• 49:51
  I can never live in that kind of world. You know, did you
• 49:54
  Did you ever see anyone never to like try to treat Kano bed No,
• 49:59
  it's not a of treating him bad, but it's it's a matter of going,
• 50:01
  hey, I recognize you from all of your movies. You're buddies now,
• 50:06
  you know. But like when he's having dinner and just having people come
• 50:10
  up and you know, continuously come up to him, I don't. I
• 50:16
  don't get that. You know, New York is different, and I'd argue
• 50:20
  various sections of Hollywood are different simply because they're used to it and it's a
• 50:23
  different culture. But when you have, you know, people from the Midwest
• 50:28
  where I come from, you have two kinds. The kind comes up to
• 50:30
  kanagas, hey, I love your work, and then move on. And
• 50:34
  then it's the or the hey I love your work. We're friends. Now,
• 50:36
  right, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now
• 50:45
  back to the show. So do you have a lot of friends in the
• 50:52
  Midwest calling you now and being like, hey, Derek, you sold a
• 50:53
  screenplay. I have a screenplay idea too, you know, not really,
• 51:00
  because I'd argue one of the greatest things about the Midwest is you're instilled with
• 51:06
  a work ethic. But more importantly, it's like, one of my best
• 51:08
  friends out here is Austin O'Brien. He played the little kid in Last Action
• 51:14
  Hero, you know, was Law Moran and all that kind of stuff,
• 51:15
  and he's a very successful photographer now and he was kind of stressed one day
• 51:21
  when he was going to meet my cousin who was a big fan of his,
• 51:23
  and my cousin Joanna came to a party. She walked up to him,
• 51:28
  shook his hand and said, hey, I really love your movies,
• 51:30
  and they went to the kitchen to start cooking something. I don't know.
• 51:34
  That's what I grew up with, and I think that's awesome. But every
• 51:37
  now and then you have people come out of the woodwork, of course,
• 51:42
  and that's what kind of nice Facebook as you can ignore him, and yet
• 51:45
  at the same time, like the reality is, no one helped me,
• 51:50
  you know, And what I mean by that is of course, people help
• 51:53
  me. But when it came to this getting into the industry and the screenwriting,
• 51:57
  it was years of incredibly hard work and work for free to get to
• 52:01
  this point. And yet I kind of wonder would I be the same guy
• 52:06
  had the success happen at age thirty than forty. I hope so. And
• 52:10
  so a lot of times when students reach out to me or people reach out
• 52:15
  to me, those conversations tend to be very healthy because they're grounded. You
• 52:19
  know, I'm a screenwriter, man, The crazies don't come to me.
• 52:22
  And sometimes, Derek, you have annoying people they ask to be on a
• 52:25
  podcast. You know what what I love about podcasts, though, is this
• 52:32
  medium has given so many people like yourselves an opportunity that didn't exist ten years
• 52:37
  ago. You know, I love that, And I mean, who knows
• 52:40
  what the next generation's gonna you know face as well, but you have the
• 52:45
  opportunity to be and create and manage your own brand. And how cool is
• 52:47
  that? Yeah? Absolutely, you know, and I think the next generation
• 52:52
  is going to be robots are just gonna a're gonna call you and they're gonna
• 52:55
  interview you, and then you know, just whoever's around and be listening to
• 52:59
  it. Um. But see, that's what I like about podcasters, though,
• 53:01
  is you're not You're not a cynical bunch. I mean, you're doing
• 53:06
  what you love. Uh. You know, it's one thing doing an interview
• 53:09
  for the international press. It's another another thing doing this because we're we're fanboys
• 53:14
  to a certain degree of films themselves. You know. I'm I have not
• 53:19
  seen the most movies any any person I know, Yet when I see a
• 53:22
  fellow person who loves a certain movie, like you know, I asked last
• 53:27
  night on Facebook, like what movies you watch when you're down or drunk or
• 53:30
  you know, alone, And my response was like, I've seen Captain of
• 53:34
  the Woods and Evil Dead to too many times to count. And yet when
• 53:37
  people hear that, you can kind of see the amen. Brother. Yeah,
• 53:43
  it's it's just so interesting, you know. Um. I remember this,
• 53:46
  this this anecdote the Kane Hotter. I don't know if Kane Hotter is,
• 53:50
  but he was Jason thirteenth from seven on, and he once they actually
• 53:54
  were talking to him once and they said who was the best actor you've ever
• 53:58
  worked with? And his response was Charlie Cholice thereon and he said he was
• 54:04
  just absolutely phenomenal monster and he said that she just blew everyone away and he's
• 54:08
  never worked someone. You know, it's just it's it was. She was
• 54:12
  just beyond you know what he was used to, you know what I mean.
• 54:15
  Yeah, that's what A friend of mine who saw Curry Road was just
• 54:19
  like The Thrones amazing because she's looking in the rear view mirror and acting and
• 54:24
  you kind of like, I can't do that, like to to have volumes
• 54:30
  of backstory in a look, it's huge, you know, Yeah, absolutely,
• 54:36
  I mean that's why you know, I think the movie does work.
• 54:38
  I mean, I haven't seen it. I'm just hearing. I'm the stand
• 54:40
  works behind him as one. But you know, I mean you've got Tom
• 54:44
  Hardy who's phenomenal, and you have her, who I think is absolutely phenomenal.
• 54:47
  I loved her and Prometheus. I don't know if you saw Prometheus.
• 54:51
  Yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan of that one, man. I loved
• 54:53
  her though, Yeah, she was. You know, I just have a
• 54:58
  big soft spot for that movie. I know it has falls, like everyone
• 55:01
  has. That's the thing is everyone has those movies that connect to you on
• 55:05
  a certain capacity. So there are very There are very few movies I will
• 55:08
  refer to as horrendous or terrible simply because you're connected with them on a certain
• 55:14
  level. I mean, I have movies that are indefensible, but I love
• 55:16
  them because they they amuse me in a way that only that could movie could
• 55:22
  you know? Yeh yeah, I totally totally understand. So you know,
• 55:27
  there we were talking about an hour. Now, I know you have you
• 55:30
  know, I don't want to take too much of your time, so you
• 55:32
  know, I have one question or actually two questions that came in from the
• 55:37
  fans, if you don't mind. Uh um. The first question I actually
• 55:42
  I briefly referred to earlier was about what the question is. I'm just going
• 55:46
  to paraphrase this is, you know, with a lot of talk in the
• 55:51
  industry about script consultants, where do you feel that they fit into the whole
• 55:55
  screamining process. You know, it's hard from me because I'm Sony is my
• 56:00
  script consultant, you know, and so between her and Josh Adler's my manager.
• 56:07
  You know, that's that's where I've gotten. But I would argue that,
• 56:12
  you know, my dad used to say the phrase that when you bring
• 56:16
  in someone to do a job and you're getting a quote, get five quotes
• 56:21
  you throughout the biggest one, throughout the lowest one. And with script consulting
• 56:25
  is if you look at the numbers, if it makes sense for you,
• 56:29
  great and a lot of times, especially nowadays, you can find some good
• 56:32
  ones that all you need is to hear back both that criticism and encouragement make
• 56:39
  you better. You know. I would argue that a lot of us have
• 56:42
  people who serve the script consultation capacity in some respect. But for the pros,
• 56:47
  they're reading tons of scripts. They know that, they know, they
• 56:51
  know it's selling, they know it's not And I think, even though I
• 56:54
  haven't done it before, I can see the value in it. Just don't
• 56:59
  spend in you know, an ungodly amount, you know, so in your
• 57:04
  opinion, you know what's like, do you think there should be like a
• 57:07
  calp of like one hundred dollars, a thousand dollars or something like that.
• 57:09
  Well, you know, you can't really say a figure because who is it?
• 57:13
  You know? Um, you know, at a certain point, like
• 57:15
  if you buy a luxury ice cream container for eight dollars, you're like,
• 57:21
  oh sweet, would you buy it for eighty? Fuck? It's ice cream.
• 57:23
  At a certain point, what is it that you're buying? You know?
• 57:28
  Very true? Uh, you're just as a As a funny side note,
• 57:30
  I actually just saw in I think it was Abu Dhabi or um Uh
• 57:36
  somewhere in the Middle East they actually have ice cream. Now that's like a
• 57:38
  thousand dollars an ounce. What's in it? Gold flakes, dot diamonds and
• 57:46
  um caviare and something else. But it's but it's like the way they make
• 57:52
  it is they it's all freeze dried, right, so they make it literally
• 57:54
  they make it right in front of you from scratch, everything from scratch.
• 57:58
  It's not not not the diamonds of course, but like the ice cream.
• 58:00
  And then what they do is they put it into this they mix it up
• 58:02
  with everything, and then they top it with gold flakes. I don't know
• 58:07
  who told me this years ago. They're like it was when the Trump Hotel
• 58:12
  I think was serving up this eight hundred dollars hamburger, you know, and
• 58:15
  he said, if I ever found myself wondering about that burger and ordering it,
• 58:21
  I should just give that money away. And I think that's the truth
• 58:23
  for most of life. Like if I buy myself wanting to buy a Bentley.
• 58:28
  I should give that money away if I had it, So, yeah,
• 58:31
  I know what you mean, although I would say I probably would buy
• 58:36
  it Bentley. You know it's funny. Um. Joe Esterhaus once said that
• 58:44
  there's a there's a great way if you ever stuck on a screenplay. He
• 58:46
  has found the perfect way to get unstuck and cure writer's block. And he
• 58:52
  said, what you do is you go down to find your local um exotic
• 58:55
  car dealer and you either get like a Lamborghini or Ferrari. And he took
• 59:00
  it off for the weekend and he said, well, by the time you
• 59:01
  get back, you're going to do anything in your power to make sure you
• 59:05
  can buy one so you could drive that again. I like that. Uh
• 59:10
  yeah, and uh, I'm actually trying to get him on the podcast.
• 59:14
  By the way, um might be a little little Is he still writing or
• 59:17
  I know he kind of had a big blow up the industry kind of took
• 59:21
  a took some time off. Oh he's still writing, okay, sweet and
• 59:24
  uh because his last work was actually a book. It's an e book called
• 59:29
  Heaven and Mel and it's all about working with Mel Gibson. Nice and uh.
• 59:36
  The other question that came in Derek was how do I go about getting
• 59:39
  a screenplay mentor good? Question? Man um, if I look at my
• 59:46
  own life, find someone in your life who reads, you know uh and
• 59:52
  reads voraciously simply because when you read, you you know what's good, you
• 59:59
  know what's you know it works and you know. The other thing, too,
• 1:00:04
  is my thing about screenwriting, especially the industry I said at the beginning,
• 1:00:07
  is you have to be here. I know you can hate LA and
• 1:00:12
  hate New York you, but you have to be here. You could,
• 1:00:15
  honestly you move to LA right now, jump online and find a group of
• 1:00:20
  people who will read your screenplay in four to eight hours because they're trying to
• 1:00:22
  do the same thing. And it's kind of like the brotherhood of the script.
• 1:00:27
  And you know that's the best. If you really want to see if
• 1:00:30
  you can fail on this movie, here, you know we'll be right back
• 1:00:35
  after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. But if
• 1:00:43
  you don't and you want advice, seek out the people who love the medium.
• 1:00:49
  And it's amazing too. The other thing too is you'll know if you
• 1:00:52
  have a good script when you have your friends sit around and read it out
• 1:00:55
  loud, because it's amazing, especially with comedy, something that intimates the shit
• 1:01:00
  out of me, where it's funny to you, it's funny on the page,
• 1:01:06
  and when it's spoken out loud, it's just like gravel, you know.
• 1:01:08
  And uh, that's what i'd say. That's a very good point,
• 1:01:15
  by the way, Derek, just to sort of add onto that, did
• 1:01:16
  you see the Blacklist has its own podcast now where they're actually reading some like
• 1:01:20
  unproduced screenplays. Really, Yeah, that's a really cool idea, man.
• 1:01:23
  Yeah. The first one they did was Balls Out. I haven't read that
• 1:01:29
  one. I've heard of it. Somebody once told me about it, and
• 1:01:31
  then I heard Craig Mason mentioned it again. Um, Craig Mason, you
• 1:01:37
  know who he is, right, Yeah, Okay, So like he mentioned
• 1:01:39
  it and I looked it up and I was like, wow, it's easy
• 1:01:42
  to find, and apparently it's been circling around Hollywood for years but nobody actually
• 1:01:46
  wants to make it. But everyone's like this is fucking hilarious ha ha,
• 1:01:51
  and they just pass it on and and it's been like why the hell.
• 1:01:54
  So apparently it does get like pretty outrageous and stuff. So I'm actually gonna
• 1:02:00
  one of these days. But I've read the first twenty pages and I thought
• 1:02:01
  it was hilarious. Like, have you read the screenplay Passengers? No?
• 1:02:05
  I haven't, dude, that's that's one right now. I think I think
• 1:02:08
  Chris Pratt's attached. I don't know who do the female leader is right now?
• 1:02:13
  Um, that's one that every exact I talked to is like, that's
• 1:02:15
  the best screenplay I've read in five years, but we passed on it.
• 1:02:20
  And the realities of this business are It's like, let's say you read a
• 1:02:22
  screenplay and it's your favorite ever, but you're like, that's one hundred and
• 1:02:27
  twenty million dollar h you know, pgt R rated sci fi thriller. That's
• 1:02:34
  unique. You know, it's not based on anything. You know, you've
• 1:02:38
  got shareholders. Man, it's it's a huge risk. So when people pass
• 1:02:43
  on certain stuff, like I've talked to a number of peop who passed on
• 1:02:45
  Gravity, you're like wow, and then you realize, oh, yeah,
• 1:02:50
  if you hadn't seen the visuals and we're reading, I get it, you
• 1:02:52
  know. And yet every now and then, especially being in aspiring ready like
• 1:02:58
  yourself, oh fuck that you were a writer, you know, is when
• 1:03:00
  you go to the theater and you're like, you get twelve minutes into a
• 1:03:05
  movie, like, how is this made? And a lot of times even
• 1:03:07
  the people involved like, I don't know happen? Yeah, there's a there's
• 1:03:13
  another podcast to uh how did this get made? And um I love that?
• 1:03:17
  Oh yeah, And I first I was like what the hell? But
• 1:03:22
  um but yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. You know,
• 1:03:24
  they they even mentioned, you know, what the hell happened here?
• 1:03:27
  But you know it's funny there. Remember Land of the Loss when that came
• 1:03:30
  out with Will Ferrell. Yeah, that that studio they booked, they booked
• 1:03:34
  so much on that, and then what happened was when it failed, everyone
• 1:03:37
  got fired. Yeah. And that's the kind of thing though that you can't
• 1:03:42
  you feel for certain people involved, because I remember talking to the producers of
• 1:03:45
  Jonah Hecks and uh, they you know, this was after the fact that
• 1:03:52
  they were like Derek, the screenplay was fun, it was, it was
• 1:03:54
  a blast. The table reads were great. Three weeks before shooting, they
• 1:04:00
  carved off like fifteen million dollars or a budget. We thought we'd be fine,
• 1:04:02
  and then when we started seeing dailies, we were like, what happened.
• 1:04:06
  It's just again, it's a miracle when you get a good movie,
• 1:04:10
  and it's simply because you know, it's it begins and ends with a script.
• 1:04:15
  Sure, but at certain points people step in and the script gets muddied
• 1:04:19
  and things happen, you know, And often you've seen a bad movie that's
• 1:04:26
  only bad when it hits the second act. You know, that's more often
• 1:04:29
  than not. Yeah, very true. U. Yeah, something I've always
• 1:04:32
  heard is the second act is where movies go to die. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:04:39
  I mean I would argue that the movies I write the I mean I
• 1:04:45
  love just action, I love thrillers, I love scihi. The work is
• 1:04:47
  an act two. I mean act one you come up with you when you're
• 1:04:53
  out for a walk or you're you're having a meal. Act three is just
• 1:04:56
  fun because you can finish the fucker. But act two that's where the writing
• 1:05:00
  comes in. Man, And when you start receiving notes, all your notes
• 1:05:04
  or an act too, not one or three. Uh so you know,
• 1:05:11
  Derek enclosing, Uh you know, I mean we could talk all day,
• 1:05:14
  you and I I could tell we have you know, we have we have
• 1:05:15
  the same taste of movies. We've got We're both give a show when the
• 1:05:19
  next film comes out. Man, okay, definitely, because you were both
• 1:05:23
  have degrees in business, we both do writing, we both have red hair.
• 1:05:27
  Um losing my shit, man my uh but thank you for that writer
• 1:05:32
  coming by the way. Yeah, so's the thing. It's like I always
• 1:05:36
  have to stop myself because it's kind of a Kiana said about he doesn't do
• 1:05:41
  he doesn't do stunts. He's really doing it. And so when I talk
• 1:05:45
  to people, it's like, you're not to say you're an aspiring screenwriter means
• 1:05:47
  you want to be a screen writer who's being paid. But to be a
• 1:05:50
  writer is to be a writer. And as soon as you have one person
• 1:05:54
  read it, you've affected their entire life. And I think it's it's a
• 1:05:59
  difficult career, and yet it's it's a fun one. And I'm not saying
• 1:06:03
  John Wick is going to be out there changing people's lives. But I want
• 1:06:06
  being new movies that like Predator die Hard for instance, where you're at you're
• 1:06:11
  at a hotel one night, it's eleven o'clock, you're tired. You turn
• 1:06:15
  on the TV. It's halfway through Predator, and you're like, fucking I
• 1:06:16
  gotta watch it. Those are the movies I love. I mean, I
• 1:06:19
  remember when I when I beyond the commercials for John Wick. I was on
• 1:06:24
  Facebook one day and a friend of mine, who's kind of a hard guy
• 1:06:26
  to please with movies, actually was like, John Wick and you know,
• 1:06:30
  dot dot dot the ellipsis and he wrote, that was pretty fucking good.
• 1:06:33
  See that's the best. That's what I want, you know. And in
• 1:06:36
  fact, I had people on Facebook who were like in their late seventies,
• 1:06:41
  early eighties, friends of my grandmother who hadn't seen an R rated movie since
• 1:06:45
  maybe The Godfather. They want to see it to support me, and they're
• 1:06:48
  just like, I really enjoyed that. He because I mean, there's a
• 1:06:54
  couple of things in John Wick. Like I said, people, if you're
• 1:06:56
  listening to this, told you job was going to dig into it, but
• 1:06:59
  just you know, real quick, I know, you know you have to
• 1:07:00
  go. But when when John Wick, you know, was going through the
• 1:07:02
  nightclub and he's all action scene and we're falling the whole time, and it's
• 1:07:06
  just everything about that which just all came together beautifully, and I was like
• 1:07:11
  and I was like, damn, that's a really good action scene right there.
• 1:07:14
  Yeah, And what's fun is you know, Chad and Dave their background
• 1:07:17
  is, you know, is stunt direction and that kind of stuff. But
• 1:07:20
  what I loved about working with them and what I love about working with them
• 1:07:25
  now is a lot of the action beats I wrote into the script are on
• 1:07:30
  the screen. Like to see that John shoots that guy's foot and he leans
• 1:07:33
  forward and shoots his head. I'm like, that was in the screenplay,
• 1:07:35
  and so I know for a lot of like the Marvel movies are the bigger
• 1:07:39
  properties. They say, John Wick fights fifteen guys, like in the script.
• 1:07:44
  They gave me the opportunity to help them along the action action wise.
• 1:07:49
  And what I love about their directing style is there's no quick cuts. They're
• 1:07:57
  doing all of these moves. They're landing all of these blows, and it's
• 1:08:00
  it's kind of like an ode to the Kung Fu I grew up with,
• 1:08:02
  you know, and we had fun with it then and weren't gonna have a
• 1:08:05
  blast with it in the next Is there a rough date for the release date
• 1:08:11
  for the next one? Not? Not not really, lions Gate really wants
• 1:08:15
  one. Uh, They're they're talking with various people and can right now so
• 1:08:18
  we could shoot in the fall or we could shoot in the spring. Um,
• 1:08:23
  the Lions Gates has been very very generous. I mean it's very rare
• 1:08:28
  to be in a place where you have a green Let movie, you know,
• 1:08:30
  and it's green Let and they're like the sooner the better, and yet
• 1:08:34
  they want to massage this into a franchise. And Kano, who's you know,
• 1:08:39
  implicit in all of this, is very careful to do so as well.
• 1:08:44
  And that's absolutely phenomenal. And you, Derek, I want to say
• 1:08:46
  congratulations on all your success you've you know, you've definitely earned it, and
• 1:08:50
  you know I wish you nothing but the best with you know, John Wick
• 1:08:54
  two and hopefully John Wick three and uh, you know all the other future
• 1:08:57
  products you have due. Thanks a lot, man. I enjoy talking to
• 1:09:00
  Oh I believe it my pleasure man, anytime I can get talking about like
• 1:09:02
  movies, like anyone who's seen Man Squito or or or or Killed Dozer or
• 1:09:09
  future? Do you see Rubber? Yes? I did see Rubber. Yes.
• 1:09:14
  You know, if you ever really want to punish yourself and it goes
• 1:09:16
  for finaloe you, Derek. For anyone listening, if you want to see
• 1:09:19
  the worst film that I've ever seen, I know exactly what it is.
• 1:09:24
  And it's called Nuki. What Nuki, It's n u Kie and it's a
• 1:09:30
  movie about two aliens at crash land in Africa, and it is it was
• 1:09:35
  supposed to be like a kids movie, like a rip off of ET and
• 1:09:40
  it is so odd and bad and boring and dead. It's it's it's it's
• 1:09:45
  hailed. As you know, they usually have the worst movies ever made.
• 1:09:48
  Uh, they usually put Plan nine on, but Plan nine's actually entertaining this.
• 1:09:53
  This is just bad. So so if you ever an I'll link to
• 1:09:56
  it in the show notes too, if everybody who actually wants to venture out
• 1:09:59
  to seen Uki. But it is absolutely barned on the worst movie I've ever
• 1:10:02
  seen in my life. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 1:10:11
  and now back to the show. Have you seen Martyrs? Martyrs?
• 1:10:17
  No, that is one of the most disturbing horror movies I've ever seen,
• 1:10:20
  So okay, I'll make I'm making a note of that. That and uh,
• 1:10:25
  three Extremes is awesome. Yeah, I have seen extremes. Three extremes.
• 1:10:28
  Yeah, and I could go for hours, man, Yeah, seriously,
• 1:10:31
  I mean we could always be talking. I mean that's uh, that's
• 1:10:34
  what helps me to find you know, find somebody like yourself and who just
• 1:10:40
  seen all these random movies that I've seen. Uh, and I'm gonna check
• 1:10:43
  out that movie cast up blank you mentioned. I don't know I've Hey,
• 1:10:45
  when you're out, man, give me a shot, dude, we'll do
• 1:10:49
  Derek and oh Derek where we'll find you out online nowhere. I don't do
• 1:10:57
  Twitter or anything, Okay, So I just I'm just a private guy.
• 1:11:02
  Man cool and uh, you know, everybody can find me at Dave Bullis
• 1:11:08
  dot com. Uh, you can, you can find you can find me.
• 1:11:11
  I'm a I try to be private, but I watch social stuff going
• 1:11:14
  on. You know what I meant, chattels um. But actually, Derek,
• 1:11:17
  I want to say thanks again for coming on and h please anytime I
• 1:11:20
  want to come back, just let me know. Sure. Thank good looking
• 1:11:24
  on man. Like I said, that was an awesome, awesome interview Derek.
• 1:11:29
  I'm a huge fan of Derek and I'm a huge fan of the John
• 1:11:30
  Wick franchise. So if you do want to get more episodes, buy Dave
• 1:11:35
  Bullis on the Make Your Movie podcast. Just head over to I f H
• 1:11:41
  podcast Network dot com and check out all of the other amazing podcasts that we
• 1:11:47
  have in the network that is focused on filmmaking, film history and analysis,
• 1:11:53
  and screenwriting. Thanks again for listening guys, As always, keep on writing
• 1:11:58
  no matter what. Talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof
• 1:12:01
  Screenwriting podcasts at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.