Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Sean Gorman: Adventurer and 4WD Expert

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Sean Gorman: Adventurer and 4WD Expert · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Drill Podcast. I am
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I'm here with a longtime friend,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: incredible Overlander experienced individual, Sean Gorman. He is the founder
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: CEO of C to Summit Experiences, a longtime collaborator with
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: land Rover and other vehicle manufacturers. He's responsible for most
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of the notable vehicle launches that we have here in
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: North America and around the world. Him and his team
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of individuals conduct training and other support for manufacturers as well,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and then he also provides a lot of engineering and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: driving feedback to manufacturers on the capabilities of their cars.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: In addition to that, Sean is extremely well traveled and
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: he has some very interesting experiences that I think we're
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: going to all enjoy taking away from this conversation. For
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: those of you that are watching on YouTube, it's going
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to look like I got kicked in the face by
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: a mule. And that's because I have a tooth absess
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: right now, I had a root canal a couple days ago,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: so you can all feel sorry for me. Sean already
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: has a hard time taking me serious, and now he's
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: going to be looking at me, look like I got
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: wal that's stored up for the winner in my face.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So it's we're just going to all go with it.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: We're going to take a brief break and we will
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: be right back. This week's episode is supported in part
• 1:10
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• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the podcast, Sean, Yeah,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: thanks for having me.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
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  Speaker 1: For me. One of the things that I think would
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  Speaker 1: be really interesting would be to start with where you
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  Speaker 1: came from as an adventurer. Because some of our conversations
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: that we've had driving together in cars, I was able
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  Speaker 1: to learn about these incredible adventures that you've been on,
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  Speaker 1: many of them human powered when you first started traveling,
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  Speaker 1: including big mountains. So maybe give us some insights, some
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  Speaker 1: history onto what got you into being an adventurer.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I grew up in Colorado. I think that's a
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  Speaker 2: big part of it, for sure. And I grew up
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  Speaker 2: in a household of two parents that I wouldn't say
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  Speaker 2: they were really adventurous, but my grand my grandmother in
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: particularly on my mom's side, she was pretty adventurous and
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  Speaker 2: so kind of growing up in Colorado in an environment,
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  Speaker 2: and my parents were divorced, and so I sort of
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  Speaker 2: split time between Denver and then up in the mountains.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: And I think I think I'm also I always hate
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  Speaker 2: to say it, but I'm an only child, so you know,
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  Speaker 2: you end up kind of figuring out ways to fill
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  Speaker 2: your time. And for me, that was just being busy
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  Speaker 2: and doing stuff. I never really went out trying to
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  Speaker 2: be adventurous was just sort of what happened, sort of
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  Speaker 2: a natural progression, and I was lucky enough to go
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  Speaker 2: to this private high school up near Aspen. I kind
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  Speaker 2: of describe it as a combination of a kind of
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  Speaker 2: a hippie kind of a hippie school, but it also
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  Speaker 2: is like a real work life balance type of school.
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  Speaker 2: And so for me, that was really my indoctrination into
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  Speaker 2: understanding that you can work hard and you can play hard,
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  Speaker 2: and you can kind of do what you need to do.
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  Speaker 2: And maybe there's some alternative ads other than the kind
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  Speaker 2: of traditional American study path. You know, you do this,
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  Speaker 2: you go to college, you graduate, Yeah, live to retire,
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  Speaker 2: that kind of thing. Sure, And that's really I think
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  Speaker 2: where it started, and that's where the climbing started was
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  Speaker 2: it's a climbing and really you know that's outplane climbing,
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  Speaker 2: so big, big mountains and fourteen yers in Colorado. And
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  Speaker 2: then that turned into you know stuff here in the States,
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  Speaker 2: taller stuff. And when I was in high school, we
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  Speaker 2: did a school trip and did Denali. It was just
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  Speaker 2: that kind of school which is incredible. Yeah, that was
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  Speaker 2: like the school trip was done, I mean trip.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And for those that are listening, d Nulli is
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  Speaker 1: the tallest mountain in North America and it is a
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  Speaker 1: legitimate accomplishment by any standard, but certainly more so as
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  Speaker 1: a as a student in high school.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, it's funny because I didn't really
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  Speaker 2: think much about doing it. It was sort of on a whim.
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  Speaker 2: He's like, oh, yeah, that sounds interesting, Yeah, let's do that.
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  Speaker 2: And then yeah, I just really enjoyed it. And then honestly,
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  Speaker 2: the rest of it just turned into like a lot
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  Speaker 2: of networking.
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  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 2: It was I didn't grow up in a household where
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  Speaker 2: I had a lot of financial means, and things would
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  Speaker 2: just pop up. They would just you know, I wouldn't
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  Speaker 2: make a friend and it would turn out they were
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  Speaker 2: ahead of outward bound or something, you know, and that
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  Speaker 2: would open some door, and then I'd go do that,
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  Speaker 2: and then that would open more doors and then just
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  Speaker 2: and actually that's how I've gone to where I'm sitting
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  Speaker 2: right now. It's just really just a series of events
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  Speaker 2: that have all just sort of led to it.
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  Speaker 1: And building on those relationships. It sounds like, yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's interesting. I'm just not I'm not wired to be
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  Speaker 1: like a real like a bucket list guy. I don't
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  Speaker 1: have like laundry list of things that I feel like
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  Speaker 1: I must do in order for my life to feel
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  Speaker 1: like it's complete, I kind of plan a few weeks
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  Speaker 1: ahead or a month ahead, two months ahead, and things
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  Speaker 1: always fill in the gaps, and they always seem to
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  Speaker 1: be really cool, and they present themselves in ways that
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. It becomes more meaningful in a way
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  Speaker 1: because you didn't really there's no expectation to sign to.
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  Speaker 2: It, right, Yeah, sure that I don't really know what
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  Speaker 2: I expect for something to happen because I don't really
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  Speaker 2: know what's happening next.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And you're not putting too much emphasis or weight
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  Speaker 1: on the future, which doesn't allow us to be in
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  Speaker 1: the present. And I think that's one of the challenges
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  Speaker 1: I know that I struggle with, is I'm so goal
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  Speaker 1: oriented in future oriented that oftentimes I miss all of
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  Speaker 1: the moments in the present. And it isn't that I
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  Speaker 1: don't go through that, because obviously you do go through
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  Speaker 1: the present. But if you're always thinking in the future,
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  Speaker 1: or in my case, if I'm always thinking towards the future,
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  Speaker 1: then I'm not able to fully immerse myself in what's
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  Speaker 1: happening in the moment. And it sounds like you found
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  Speaker 1: some ways to be able to do that.
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  Speaker 2: I try to do that. Yeah, I mean, I just
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  Speaker 2: think it's so it's so easy to assign and you know,
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  Speaker 2: these these ideas of what we think we're going to
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  Speaker 2: experience and then and then really the experience becomes into
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  Speaker 2: whether or not you've met those expectations or not sure,
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  Speaker 2: you know. So for for me, like a good example,
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  Speaker 2: I just I just came back from from Grenada. You know,
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  Speaker 2: all my friends asked me before I went, what are
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  Speaker 2: you planning on doing while you're there? And I didn't.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't have not one single plan of anything to
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  Speaker 2: do there other than get there.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have a buddy. You have a buddy that
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  Speaker 1: sound Grenada asked you to come down.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's good, down it out and then just
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  Speaker 2: see what there is to do once we're there. And that's, uh,
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  Speaker 2: that's pretty much what we do. And that's kind of
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  Speaker 2: what I do, and and it's good. It's good because
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  Speaker 2: from a work standpoint, I can't do that. Everything has
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  Speaker 2: to be planned to the second sure. So for me personally,
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  Speaker 2: maybe that's the maybe that's the opposite, the opposite side
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  Speaker 2: of the coin, where I have to on my personal
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  Speaker 2: time have that lack of structure in order to be
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  Speaker 2: able to have that level of structure at work that
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  Speaker 2: that actually allows me to do the program well.
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  Speaker 1: And I've seen your programs in action. I've been on
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  Speaker 1: many of your programs. We just last night found out
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  Speaker 1: that you had been a big part of setting up
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  Speaker 1: the new Tacoma launched and I think it was twenty
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  Speaker 1: sixteen or late twenty fifteen, and that was a great program.
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  Speaker 1: And then you were the individual that set up all
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  Speaker 1: of the challenges and a lot of the infrastructure for
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  Speaker 1: the trek event that just happened a few months ago
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  Speaker 1: that I participated in, and all of those touch points
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  Speaker 1: that I've had has certainly shown a lot of experience
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  Speaker 1: on your part and a lot of making it look effortless,
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  Speaker 1: which I think is how you want people to experience
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  Speaker 1: something like that, where it doesn't feel like you're being rushed.
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  Speaker 1: Everything is happening as it needs to to get towards
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  Speaker 1: the goal. And that shows certainly a lot of experience
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  Speaker 1: on your part. And I'd like to talk about some
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  Speaker 1: of those things in that part of your life that
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  Speaker 1: you've learned that can apply it to travel. But the
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  Speaker 1: next thing that comes to mind for me is, as
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  Speaker 1: I recall you made this, You did the trip to Denali,
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  Speaker 1: and then sometime later you find yourself into the Himalaya,
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  Speaker 1: you find yourself into Asia. Talk a little bit about
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  Speaker 1: what were you trying to accomplish when you were there.
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  Speaker 1: Were you there to climb mountains, but I know that
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  Speaker 1: you came back changed as a person. Talk a little
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  Speaker 1: bit about what happened in that place.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'd see in the early kind of mid
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  Speaker 2: two thousands of a really good friend of mine, actually
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  Speaker 2: that came from land Rover. I mean not from the
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  Speaker 2: corporate side, but really a land Rover enthusiast. Him and
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  Speaker 2: I became really good friends and really good, amazing climber,
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  Speaker 2: really and I think he's got seven or eight or
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  Speaker 2: maybe even nine ever summits and just travel around the
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  Speaker 2: world climbing all the time. And you know, it all
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  Speaker 2: kind of started with him asking me if I could
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  Speaker 2: help fill in a little bit on a program, and like, okay, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I get I guess I can do that. And yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so I ended up over in the pall and doing
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  Speaker 2: some technical peaks and then getting kind of higher and
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: higher and getting into some oxygen and you know, again,
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  Speaker 2: it was a great experience for me because there was
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  Speaker 2: no expectation on my end other than to just try
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  Speaker 2: to be good at my job. And my job essentially
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  Speaker 2: is to try to make sure that I can make
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  Speaker 2: decisions for people who are in a position that they
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  Speaker 2: can't really make decisions.
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  Speaker 1: You mean, because of their focus on getting to the summit.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's multiple layers, right, Like, So you have a
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  Speaker 2: very expensive trip, So there's a certain clientele that comes
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  Speaker 2: with that, and you have a lot of people who
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: are used to being you know, their doctors and lawyers
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  Speaker 2: and CEOs and heads of business and things like that
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  Speaker 2: that can afford to, you know, have an extra one
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  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty two hundred thousand dollars to go to
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  Speaker 2: go blow on a climbing trip. And to them it's
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  Speaker 2: really important, right because it's they've assigned part of their
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: identity to it. It takes a certain a certain kind
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  Speaker 2: of knack to be able to figure out how to
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  Speaker 2: communicate to people. And then on top of that is
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: that the lack of oxygen in and of itself gives
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: you the inability or maybe the ability to make bad
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  Speaker 2: decisions or not think about your decisions. And I mean,
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  Speaker 2: everybody's there working hard. The thing is that everybody trains
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  Speaker 2: like they train crazy for it. But the training to
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  Speaker 2: climb a big mountain is not the same kind of
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  Speaker 2: training as it is to run a triathlon or something. Sure,
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  Speaker 2: and so you actually typically find that people who show
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: up there are really used to like high burst energy
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  Speaker 2: and it's a very low burst energy sport. It's all
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  Speaker 2: about maintaining cadence without sweating, sure, I mean really, I mean,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, that's what it is.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It's about how do you figure out a pace that
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: allows you to stay warm without sweating. As soon as
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: you sweat, things kind of get kind of get rough, right,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: you start to get cold. Interesting, And so when you
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: do that, you know, it takes a it takes a
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: long time, and it takes takes a lot of you know,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: it takes weeks and weeks of building trust with people
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: and kind of figuring out who your group of climbers
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: are going to be. You know, So the group I
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: work with, you know, I'd have kind of two or
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: three people assigned to me, and you build the trust
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: and they start to realize that you that's what you're
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: there to do. I didn't I never really cared about
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: personally what my my goal was to just try to
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  Speaker 2: get people up to the top. Sure, and you know
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  Speaker 2: that actually translates a lot to what I do for work, Right,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: it's very similar clientele. And it's also a lot of
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: decision making and figuring out kind of how do you
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: tell people sometimes things they don't want to hear, and
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: and how do you how do you do that in
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: a way that it makes sense to people. Yeah, because
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: because a lot of it is buy in. Just like
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: everything else in the world, you got to get people
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: to buy into what to what you're trying to explain
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: or do you know and that that buy And especially
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: with adults, oftentimes you have to somehow figure out how
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: to make them feel like it was their idea, right.
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  Speaker 1: Especially those type A personalities that are used to always
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: winning or nearly always winning. Yeah, and now maybe they're
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: only two hundred feet from the summit and you're working
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: really hard to help them make a good decision to
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: save their life. Yeah, that's probably very difficult for them.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the pressures have gotten harder because
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean there's there's literally people who have
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: made careers out of just being doing speaking engagements from
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: climbing Everest and sure and their CEOs and their things,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: and they go around and they you know, they equate
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: their climb to their their climate business and things like that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: And I think that as more and more people continue
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: to climate, and more and more people every year continue
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: to climate, it actually makes that pressure harder on people
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: looking for that sure, because it's not like before where
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: there was a few hundred people. Now you're talking you know,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: four or five, six hundred people a year. Yeah, getting
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: those numbers down. So for them it's a big deal,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: and they don't want to be seen as somebody you
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: didn't make it either, So that was I think it's
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: actually really translated quite well, how to take care of people,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: how to deal with logistics of people for a long
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: period of time, how to get them up and down mountains? Sure,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And it kind of translates a lot into what my
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: normal job is do.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: From those experiences. What did you learn yourself personally as
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: a traveler when you when you started to expose yourself
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: to those very upper limits of human endurance? And in
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: many ways it seems that climbing mountains has it certainly
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: requires a lot of endurance, but it also requires a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: lot of focus and commitment and the willingness not to quit.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously if you have to quit because you're
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: not going to make it in time or whatever. But
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: there's this, there's certainly people that have accomplished these incredible
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: physical feats because they have been so determined and they've
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: pushed through the pain and they continue to strive towards
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that goal. What did you learn about yourself and how
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: did that start to translate to you as a traveler
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: climbing those big mountains and having those those very otherworldly experiences.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: This is a place where humans don't survive.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think for me personally, it
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: was sort of my first foray into actually sort of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: feeling a meditative state. You know, I'd climbed a lot
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: before then, but it's kind of different when you're climbing
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: for days and days and days and days on end.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: And also when you climatize and you go up and
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: then you go down, and you go up and then
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: you go down. You do this over and over and
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: over for a month. You know, it changes your mindset.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: You know, it's it's where we're kind of used to that,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: you know, over and travel too, right, Like we kind
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: of are going from point A to B. But can
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: you imagine if we did a trip and we went
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: from A to B to C to B to C
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: to B to a toe, you know, and that's the
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: way that we progress a It's a real different thing
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: because over a period of time, every single time you
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: do one of those acclimization kind of up and downs,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: you start to you start to focus on different things.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: You know, the first time you do and it's like
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: every step is a challenge, every everything right. You feel
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: every seam in your gloves, you feel every hot spot
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: on your foot, everything. And then after you do them
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: a few times, the next time, you're looking at the snow,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: looking at the ice, you're looking at your partners, you're
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: looking you know, the third time you do it, you're
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: looking at this guy and you're looking at at things
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: around you know, your scope gets bigger, got it, because
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: you're not thinking about the details as much, right, And
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: there's something really, like I said, meditative about that. Whereas
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: you know your focus, you know, you kind of get
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: this single point of focus and then you can open
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: it and close it as you need to. And I
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: think that that that's a pretty amazing place to be.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: In my mind just listening to you say that, it
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: immediately translates to this goal that we all have of travel,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: where if you can limit the amount of equipment that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: you bring along, the gadgets and the things that distract you,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: then you're not thinking it's like you said, the seam
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: and the glove or the hot spot in the boot.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: The fewer things that we surround ourselves with that distract
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: us from the experience, the better trained and competent we
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: are as travelers, which means if you're doing a lot
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of vehicle based travel, remote vehicle based travel, that means
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: feeling comfortable doing recovery, feeling comfortable driving in various conditions,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: feeling comfortable that you understand the vehicle and that you
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: can service the vehicle in the field. It seems to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: me that the more that we can check those boxes
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: off and feel settled around that, the more that we
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: can notice the snow, and the more that we can
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: look up and see the sky. And that's a really
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: interesting thing because I think back on the big endeavors
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: that I've done, there were so many details and there
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: were so many moving pieces that I had very few
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: opportunities to look at the sky. Yeah, and whereas in
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: recent years my trips have been much more intentional and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: much fewer moving pieces, and I've had more chances to
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: check out the snow. And so that's a really interesting
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: analogy that you've brought up that I think people can
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: really learn from is minimize the distractions and then make
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: sure you have enough competency in the well to where
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you can actually look around and see what you're doing
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: and enjoy that experience.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always hard. It's hard internally right to remind
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: ourselves that no matter what we're doing, what we're currently
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: doing is what we're doing. Yeah, you know, like we
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: get and I think some of that's kind of American culture.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: True.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: We get so focused. I'm like, okay, so I'm here
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and oh I can see up there. That's actually what
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I need to focus on.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Well, then what happens when you get there? Yeah, And
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: the next thing you know, you've just blown You've just
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: blown everything, just focused on everything that's next, you know,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: And I think I think, you know, it's like, like
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's a good good example, you know with travel,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: is that the more prepared you you walk into something,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: the less surprised you are right, and we know that,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: especially as adults, the way that we don't handle surprise well, right,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: we go into kind of a fight or flight thing,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and and we're fortunate if we can get ourselves into
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: a position or when things pop up, you don't really
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: get rattled. The rattling comes in because your brain hasn't
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: gone into fight or flight. It's just handling work. And
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the problem right, yeah, because I'm sure you're the same
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: as me as you run into things all the time
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: that you've never experienced for it doesn't stress you out
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: because you're not. It's like, okay, well I can I
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: can figure this out. This isn't really that big a deal.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: And that's probably it. I mean, I don't oftentimes feel
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: rattled anymore, only because I've had another times being rattled
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: where nothing really bad happened, Like your body eventually realizes
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: that this is unexpected, this is a surprise, This is
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a potential problem, but it's not a problem yet, and
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: it probably will become a problem if I don't do
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: start doing something about it. Now. That's what I've noticed
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: is that maybe that cascade of events, which is very
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: much a climbing ethos of if you start off with
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the hot spot in the shoe, and you keep climbing
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and you don't address it, and then now you're climbing
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: slower because you're in pain, and then that starts to
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: decline compounds into a very serious problem. So no, I
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: think that that is so important to remember, is let's
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: do what we can to allow us to feel settled.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And that a lot of times that's just not being
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: so focused, like you said, on this lofty goal, or
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: being so focused on I've got this new widget that
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing along on this trip, and now this new
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: trip is all about that widget. That's such a distraction.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how many times you've been on something where like
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I was on a trip a couple of years ago now,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: and a guy had just gotten a new fridge and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: he couldn't get his phone compaired to it. He was
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: just he was just thrown off for like days, you know.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: So here we're in this amazing, amazing place, doing really
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: cool stuff, and the whole time he's like trying to
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: figure out how to get cell service so you can
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: contact the manufacturer to figure out what he needs to
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: do so you can see what his fridge says on
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: his phone. I was. I just wanted to throw it out.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: It's like it's a fridge.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Ye open the lid, is the beer.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're fine. I have some fun out here. It's
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: not it's not about just you know, I think, and
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: I think that's that's what people get caught up with
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a lot, right. They go and they buy a whole
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: bunch of stuff. They want to get out in the
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: back country with it, and some of it's just coming
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: back with it so that they can go back and
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: throw in their grudge and then tell their buddies that
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: it's yeah, I used it, and I can check it
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: with my phone.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And yeah posted to Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. So after you
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: did those those big trips in the Himalaya, you spent
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: some additional time there in that region, and you you
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: kind of took a little bit of of a journey
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: yourself personally, maybe journey of the mind more so than
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the journey of.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah no, it's yeah back in I guess it
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: was twenty seventeen. Man, I've just been running full tilt
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: with work, like crazy, crazy years, three hundred days of
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: travel and just just going one hundred and twenty percent
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: all the time, and realized basically that I had wound
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: myself up right into a place where like it's almost
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: non functional in some ways. So I decided, well, you
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: know what, Nepal and going back there is a really
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: really good place for me. So I went to this
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: place called tang Bochet. It's this monastery up it's up
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: pretty high, I don't know, like sixteen thousand feet or something,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: and I went and lived there for a little while
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: and kind of did about a month of silence there,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: which was awesome. Yeah, I mean it was. It was
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: kind of strange.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: It's easy to be silent though when you're with a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: bunch of people you can't really communicate with anyways. True
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you speak their language.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so in some ways that makes things somewhat easier.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, I think that that's it's important
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: sometimes just hit the reset button a little bit. Yeah,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: you know, especially especially when you can feel like start
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: to feel different internally, it's time to like call time out.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: And I don't think there's anything wrong. I'm a calling
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: a timeout every once in a while.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: No, I think we need to because otherwise it just
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: it'll compound until something breaks and then you've got a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: much bigger problem.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you see it all the time, right, Like people
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: just wind themselves up, like with work, and then they
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: just start drinking a bunch or you know whatever. Like
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: you know, you end up end up compensating in some
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: way or there and the next thing, you know, like
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: lives fall apart, you know, you know, people get divorced.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: They they you know, they end up making these drastic changes.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: You know, they think the change of venue is going
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: to fix it. And now I'd be happy if I lived.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: In Tahiti, so I'm gonna move to Heati and then
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: they get to Heati and realize that it's an islands,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And we do that as humans. I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: think we we think that this this new car is
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: going to make us happy, or this new house is
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: going to make us happy, or going to change our partner,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: and that's going to make us happy, and it never does.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: If you're not happy inside yourself, if you can't find
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: a path towards feeling content and satisfied with just being
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: you and whatever you're doing, then it's it's a pretty
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: rough road. And of course we're not taught that. We
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: don't we don't learn that no school special spirit and
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: our culture is very much to continue to strive that
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: the happiness comes from achieving. And there's certainly joy that
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: can come from achieving certain things, and there's satisfaction that
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: can come from that. But if it's not it's the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: only focus, then it usually is pretty empty after we
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: get it, because now we're like, we have that moment
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: of like satisfaction, and then we're like, oh, what's next,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: What's going to get me that feeling again, that high again?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And so that time that you spent at the monastery,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: which sounds fascinating to me, I'm lucky if I can
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: meditate for ten or fifteen minutes. So I mean my
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: monkey mind just starts, you know, going in one hundred
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: different directions. But I still keep working at it because
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: it helps me. I have found that it's great for
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: me to spend those moments in quiet and just reflect
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: on my thoughts and realize what I'm really focused on,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and then that can help me make decisions. But what
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: did you find that you came away from that experience
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: from that you actually changed in your life back in Colorado?
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, I mean I think for the biggest
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: thing for me is this, I'm I work really diligently
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: to stay active in the moment and what I'm doing.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I think before I would start to get I'd start
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: to get spooled up about stuff I knew it was
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: coming up all the time. And now now I'm trying.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like I'm not a pro at it,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: but I do try really actively every day to get up.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I try to. I try to put intent behind everything,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Like I try to work really actively with intent now.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: And that's helped me a lot, Like I'm not just
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: from a personal standpoint, it's helped me professionally too, just
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: to make sure like everything that I'm doing has some
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: intention related to it, and that that intention I'm okay with,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Like it's the intention that I want it to be right.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: And because because sometimes you know, our ego has a
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: tendency to kind of get get it right in our
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: way right and all the time and a lot of
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: time kind of think about, like what is your intention
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: in your actions or in an email or in a word,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: right in a punctuation. Yeah, all of a sudden you
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: kind of step back and go, like, you know, that's
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: really not it's really not what I'm trying to accomplish.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not really trying to create waves, not trying to
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: make that person's life more difficult or mine. And I
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: find that that be super helpful and just be a
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: step back from some things sometimes.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and stay in that little bit of stillness before
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: we react. If we can just give ourselves a moment
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of pause before we send an email or type up
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: a text, and think about, like, am I just feeling
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: really frustrated right now and now I'm projecting that on
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: this other person? Or can I just have some kindness
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: and let it go? And if it becomes a bigger problem,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: then maybe I need to address it. It does take
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: some time. Maybe it takes just some years on the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: planet to realize that that doesn't it's super counterbluctive.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Does it actually matter?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly a lot of times now, Yeah, And I've
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: seen you with with people and you do a really
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: good job of And you're a tall guy. How tall
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: are you?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Six foot seven?
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're six seven, So I mean I'm six one.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I'm looking out at you. But it's really cool to
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: see when you interact with people, you're this tall guy,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and that would a lot of times that would feel
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: intimidating to people. But when I watch you interact with folks,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: you you're very focused on them. You don't get distracted,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: you don't pull out your phone. You listen to what
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: they need. You make sure that you hear them. I've
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: watched you do that at several events, and a lot
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: of times people are frustrated. They're upset because something didn't
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: go right at track, or their tent isn't there, or
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: sure the vehicle's missing some peace or whatever, and you
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: make sure that I've noticed you just be You're very quiet,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and you listen to them to make sure you understand
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: what they need, and then you kind of go into
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: action after that certainly seems like something you've perfected.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, when you're six ft seven, you have to
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: be really conscient just to not telegraph right. And what
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I've what I've learned is that it just takes very
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: subtle cues on my part and it can control a room.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And so I have to make sure that I do
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that in a positive way and not in a negative way. Sure,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: if I'm frustrated, I can make everybody around me frustrated
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: and not say a word. And so that that's something
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that I don't want to spread right. Sure, I don't
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: want to be the guy who's the contagion. Yeah, causes
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: everybody around me to pick up that negative energy.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Think, you know a lot of a lot of that
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: is just awareness, right, like being aware of what people's
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: needs are, their tones are, And a lot of it
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: with me is I just talked to people. Yeah, I
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: just talked to them, so I can start to figure
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: out what normal is, sure, and that that's a climbing,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: that's a that's a being a guide on the mountain,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: which is trying to figure out what people's baseline is.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Then you know what's not normal.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Then you can tell like something's not right, Yeah, tone's
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: not right. They're tired? Are they tired? Are they hur
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Are they sick?
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: No?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Are they just not not into it? Are they pissed off?
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Usually people are pretty good about telling you that they're
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: pissed off. Yeah, But you know, those are the kinds
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: of things that I just try to be aware of.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: And then and then I think, uh, I think something
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: that I try really hard is just to be super
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: transparent with people. Yeah, You're like, I'll I just try
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: to tell people like here's what I here's what I
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: can do. Here's how I can help. Is that helpful?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: If they say no, then it's okay, it's theirs.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't. I don't have to.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I don't have to own it all.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: And that could be a challenge when you're in that
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: position of leadership and you're trying to make a client
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: happy or whatever, and sometimes letting that go is the
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: best way forward for sure.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's challenging. Like you said, that's a good point.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I mean a lot of times when you're working for
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: you know, you're working for car manufacturers, you're working for
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: people have a lot of skin in the game. You know,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of a lot at stake, and what
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: you're curating is sort of people's first impressions and actually
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: really long term impressions, right, So, you know, it is
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: quite challenging, and there is an art form to to
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: curating it in a way that that people feel like
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: like they're part of something. You know, I don't I
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: really don't want people to kind of I say, people
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: like you know, especially like media when they come to
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the media, and I want them to come and feel
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: like they're part of the group, like they're part of
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the team. I don't want them to just kind of
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: come and feel like I mean, I do want them
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: to feel like they're guests, but at the end of
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the day, like I want them to feel like they're
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: part of what's happening and they're part of the group.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And when they're part of the group, then they have
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: some ownership of it. Sure, you know, I will let
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: people change their own tires when they get flat, you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: and it's not penalty, and I'll help and if they
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: don't know how to do it, then I'll help them
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: do it. Sure, but I'm not going to usually be
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: the first person to run over and be like here,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: just watch me do the work and then do it again,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: you know, like it it's good for people you're in
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: an autumn, out of an event. Yeah, you can get
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: a flat tire. That's fine. I'm not I'm going to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: be mad at you forgetting that.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I would.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: It depends on how you got it. But you know,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, like, it's not there's
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: also no expectation that if you know, if I got
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: a flat tire, I wouldn't expect somebody else to change
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: it for me.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah I would.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I would expect somebody to tell me if I didn't
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: know where stuff was at or how to do it,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: or if I wasn't doing it safely or something.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: No, that's true, And and that kind of segues into
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: what I wanted to ask next, is you have spent
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: so much time at these vehicle events and launches and
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: again curating those experiences. When someone is looking to buy
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: a new vehicle, let's talk about some of the things
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: that they should be looking for in that new vehicle
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that meets their needs. I think that this is something
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that oftentimes happens where someone has the idea that this
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: is the vehicle that I want because I saw it
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: on Instagram, or this person that I respect drives it,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: or I think this is what I want to do.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: But let's start from that baseline of how do we
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: decide what vehicle to get? Because oftentimes people will buy
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: a Tacoma and what they should buy is a Ford
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: F three fifty, or they'll buy an F three fifty
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and what they really should buy is a Tacoma. And
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I think, because of your experience working with so many
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: new vehicles and also doing validation on so many vehicles,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: how do people go through that process? Of deciding what
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: is the best vehicle for them, trying to set ego
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: aside and trying to set you know, the fact that
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: they want it to project certain something about themselves or
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: say something about themselves. How do people go through that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: process of picking the right car?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a that's an unloaded question.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: It's a hard one. I mean, I think I think
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: it is important that people buy cars they like, you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think, Okay, so if we step back
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: from cars, right, I think step one is to realize
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: that most of the cars we buy we don't need.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Most of us do that. Sure, if we all just
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: bought cars we need, we all probably drive a Nissan
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Leaf back and forth to the grocery store. Sure, drop
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: our kids off at school whatever. Right, Like, So I
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: always say, like, if you're going to buy a car,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: just figure out how you're gonna use it first. And
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: the reality is, if you're gonna use it to drive
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to work and buy something that you're like really comfortable,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: and especially like if you live in southern California.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna spend a lot of time that car.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna spend four hours a day in a car,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I would probably focus on, like what kind of car
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: fit me the best, like a shoe, yeah, you know,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: and figure out like what what can I sit in
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: for four hours a day and still function? Yeah, And
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: then and then go from there, and I think, I
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: think where we can get hung up is we get
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: hung up. It's like, ah, I'd love to have a
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Gladiator on thirty seven. And then it turns out what
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: you actually do as you sit in traffic for two
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: hours a day, yeah, and you drive in the snow
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: and on the weekends, you know, you drive in front
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: the ski slopes or something, and maybe two or three
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: days a year you actually take it out to stretch
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: its legs a little bit. You can easily get caught
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: up into this sort of conundrum of of building cars
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: right into their point of their incapabilities, right, like I
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: wish I had more power, You put more power in it,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: but then you're like, I can only go one hundred
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: miles on my fuel tank now, right. I mean Defender
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: is a great example of that. So you take a
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Defender ninety and everybody knew they were always underpowered eights,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and now they put ls in a still fifteen gallon
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: gas tank. Right, so now you're great, You're still stuck
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: at one hundred and twenty miles, you know, like you
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: can't re engineer the car into perfection. So I you know,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: for me, I think a big piece of it is
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: just just how are you actually going to use it?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Like what are your actual needs for the mission? And
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: the reality is if you if you spent a lot
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: of them time and money that you did on your
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: car into skills, you could probably take most cars that
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: are even marginally capable and do really great things with them.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I find that, right, I grew up my first car,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: still have a nineteen sixty one land Rover two way.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't put it high on the capability chart, like
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: if you drew you know, a scale one to ten.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: It's not really very capable on road. It's kind of
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: kind of uncomfortable. It's definitely not capable in the winter.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: It's you know, it's like being outside, it's it's really
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: hot in the summer. You have to know how to
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: drive it off road. In fact, if you don't know
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: how to drive it off road, you'll you'll just end
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: up fixing it. You just fix it all the time. Right,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: So on a scale it's it's actually low on the capability.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: You have to know what you're doing in order to
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: do anything. That's it super fun. I love it. But
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: you know, if somebody said, hey, I want to, you know,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I want to drive a car down to bah, it
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be the car I would tell them to take.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It looks cool, for sure, it's a story, no doubt,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: something to talk about, but.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: You know it's not. It's probably not the most intelligent
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: thing to do. And the flip side of the coin
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: is that you know, of course, you know, I do
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff with the land Rover stuff, so
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: constantly you get fed, oh, these cars are too complicated then,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: and they are really complicated. I mean they're anybody who's
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: going to try to say they're not complicated kind of
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: full of it.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, once you end up with thirteen computers on board,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: it's pretty competent. They're super complicated.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: So with that said, is like, again, if your skill
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: if your skill sets one where like for me, my
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: skill set actually I feel in some ways more comfortable
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: in a complicated car than a less complicated car. I
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: like it when cars have lights that blink and check
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: engine lights that come on and warnings that pop up
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: on dashes, because that stuff comes on way before you
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: have a mechanical failure. You know, I'd much rather have
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: something to tell me like I got an ABS sensor
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: that doesn't work, then down the road and have an
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: axle break. So there's like some compromise there, and a
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: lot of that has to deal with what, you know,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: what's in your personal toolkit as an individual. So for me,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I'm real comfortable with electronic stuff. I'm real comfortable with
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: computer stuff.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: And they've gotten really good. Yeah, fifteen years ago it
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: would have been a different conversation.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and there and the failures have changed, right, So,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: like it's a difference to have a failure where a
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: car goes into a limp home or something where you're
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: limited to thirty five miles an hour versus it's dead
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: doesn't work. You know. The advantage obviously the mechanical stuff
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: is that something you can shipp you parts and you
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: can fix it with tool Yeah, and there's something to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: be said for that too, I mean for sure. So
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: so it's sort of like how do you find that balance, right,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: And I think those cars that people really are attracted to,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: particularly in the overland world. Are the ones that do
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: fit that balance well, that kind of fit. Now He's like, yeah,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I'm into motorcycles too, right, So I have this eleven
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: fifty GS Adventure to mean, like, that's why I like
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: that bike. Is like it's got fuel injected, it's kind
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: of got like all the it's got abs, it's got
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: all just the right amount of stuff. It's all kind
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: of achannical fixed stuff too, for sure, So it's like
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: it's kind of the tank, you know, it just kind
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: of keeps going. You can fix it with tools for
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: the most part.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Yep, air cooled, oil cooled. Yeah, so it's you're right.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: The eleven fifty is one of those high water mark
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: motorcycles for sure. Now it's also heavy, it's the heaviest
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: of the gs's, but there are so many people that
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: have ridden around the world on those bikes because again,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: you can usually fix everything on it yourself. You don't
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: need a laptop.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: It's easy to get for sure, and when you're six
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: foot seven, the way thing becomes kind of less of
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: a true point, there's a lot of leverage.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, Yeah, for sure, yeah for sure. Yeah,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I think that on the on the vehicle selection side.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: What I've seen is, and you make a really good
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: point about you need to like the car too, because
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: life isn't supposed to be like take the safest path
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: or the thing that makes the most sense. I mean,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: because you know the end is certain, so you might
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: as well have some fun along the way. So you're right.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I think having a vehicle that turns you on in
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: some way is a good idea, but then also maybe
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: putting some framework around it so that way, after you
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: make that initial purchase and you feel super excited that
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: you just got this Ford Bronco or whatever, and it's
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: also going to work for you. I mean, if you
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: have a family of four and you're trying to overland
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: in a Ford Bronco, probably going to be a bit
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: frustrating for you and your family, Whereas maybe what you
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: need is a Dodge power wagon with a trailer or
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: something behind it so that you can actually travel comfortably
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: and your kids want to go back out with you
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: again the next time. I think that what I've seen
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: in recent years is people are actually starting to do
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: that more. When we first started Overland Journal, the vehicle
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: that most people aspired to was either a Defender or
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a land cruiser, a Defender or a land Cruiser has
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: They're very effective vehicles for what they do, but they
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: don't actually meet the needs of most people. They both
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: get fairly poor fuel economy, particularly if you're looking in
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: an NAS one ten or something like that. They're not
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: very comfortable at speed on the highway, like an eighty
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: series land Cruiser struggles, they get the overheat, they don't
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: do well. They burn a lot of fuel because they
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: weren't meant to go eighty miles an hour. They were
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: meant to go eighty kilometers an hour. Both of those
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: cars were meant to go eighty kilometers an hour, maybe
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: one hundred kilometers an hour, so maybe sixty two miles
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: an hour is what they were meant to do. Yeah,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and now when we expect them to do all these
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: other things and we load them up with a bunch
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: of accessories and big tires and roof racks and roof
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: tents and everything else like that, everything really starts to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: not work well and you end up really frustrated. And
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: then you see them for sale on Bring a Trailer
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Expedition Portal or something like that. You see them once
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: for sale pretty soon thereafter. Yeah, because they just don't
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: work well. Whereas if you start off with a vehicle
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that has the attributes that allow them to be used
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: how you use a car, then I think the outcomes
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: are much better.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, and right we I think a lot
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: of times what you find, you go buy a used car.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: You know, these these use these used rigs are great.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Some of you usually puts in a ton of time,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: a ton of ton of money, and they're using basket cases.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, they're wires everywhere and you open the
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: hood is like some birds nest under here, you know,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: just stuff everywhere. They're they're great, they're great finds. If
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: you know what you're you can kind of pull all
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: that stuff out and start start fresh. Because people just
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: get super frustrated, like super frustrated.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna end up selling it just because of
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the last thing that broke the camel's back, and it's
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: usually something minor and a special thanks to this week's sponsor, Themetic.
• 36:13
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  Speaker 1: the demands of outdoor use and comes with a handy
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• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the state of the art, designed for rugged use cooler
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: that you can rely on and enjoy for years to come. Yeah.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean I got a friend and he's like
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: the most add guy with cars, I know, honest to guy,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: he probably buys like eight cars a year. Maybe it
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: just doesn't stop. Like he buys one and he's like, oh,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: this is perfect. It's always starts the same. This car
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: is perfect. This is a keeper. And then two months
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: later he's like, yeah, I got a different one. Why
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: did you get different? Well, the AC didn't work quite,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: you know, like it just wasn't. It couldn't keep up
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: in the in the summer, it's too hot. So what
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: you get? I got another one, but it's got a
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: different AC system, so it's good. All right. Yeah, It's
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: like at some point you're like, you know, maybe it's
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: just the wrong it's just the wrong car. Yeah, you know,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: it's just the wrong model for you, you know. And
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: then and then I think the other part too, is
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: like if you're if you were going to build a
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: car to like doing around the world tripping, you could
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: probably think about maybe buying that car and building it
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: and then just buying something cheap is your car. And
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: I think that's another challenge that we run into sometimes
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: is that again you people will will go and and
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: and put tons and tons and tons of money, put
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars into a thirty thousand
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: dollars car, and they're like, that's great, I take it
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: to work. I could do this and that, and it's like, why.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: What's the cost play mileage on per mile on that?
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like why you know, like if you know, if
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: you start building i mean around the world car, that's
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: a specialized rick, right, I mean that's a that's a
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: pretty specific mission. And I think, uh, I think here
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: in the States and particularly you know, like I know
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: where I live, so I'm you know, I live just
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: outside of Boulder. We see it a lot there where
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of cars that are kind of not
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: very good at anything, And I think I was blaming
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: it on mo AaB. I love Moab, right, but but
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: my AaB's an off road site. I mean it's it's
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: four wheeling, it's designed.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: To push cars off road amusement park. Yeah, it's a
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: beautiful one at that. It's it's amazing and I love it.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And uh, but the same standpoint is like if I
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: were building a car to drive to Baja, it wouldn't
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: probably be the best mo Lab car, and the best
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: mo Lab car wouldn't be the best Mahawk car because
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: they're different things, right, I'm looking for different kinds of
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: traction and different kinds of protection. You know, Moab, we
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: we do validation testing in my lab and you know,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: everybody thinks it's because attraction, but it's not really. I mean,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: we have a lot of attraction there. But what we
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: do there is we test validation for durability there. You know,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: everything you touch hurts a car. It's designed to bend,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: break tons of torque. You know, there's more probably more
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: torque in the drive line components in that kind of
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: environment than anywhere, but well more than the street. Right,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: there's more striction than the street. So you know that
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: if you can build a car that's really good in
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: mo Ab, it's probably not necessarily not going to be
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: the best car for a big, long, long slog. You know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: the gearing is going to be wrong, the tires are
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: going to be wrong, all that kind of stuff. So
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: it's easy to do or I live, build something that's
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: like really good in mo Ab, but then you want
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: to go do some crazy trip on it and the
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: complain about it. You know, put a roof tent on, right,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: that's one way to make your car really struggle.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: And stuff struggle with everything. Yeah, you can't you can't
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: fit here, you can't. Oh, you can't go to the airport. Yeah,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: it's so capable. You can't actually go to the airport
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: because you can't pick anybody up. That's true. Yeah, that's
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: so true.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: You can't see anymore because everything's parking garage now, you
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: can't fit in there. It's horrible.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to know what your purpose is for sure.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: So when when someone let's say, they kind of pinpointed
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: that this is what I'm looking for, I'd like to
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: I'd like to buy let's use the Jeep Wrangler Gladiator
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: as an example, so I'd like to buy a gladiator.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: When when someone starts to test the vehicle, what are
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: some of the things that you think people should look
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: for it Because you do this all day long validation
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: and you're looking for attributes in the car. If they
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: can disconnect their emotion around purchasing the vehicle, what should
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: they be looking for and how it behaves, how it performs.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: What are some things that they should be looking at
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: as a priority.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great one. So, I mean, one of
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: the things I always think about, even when I'm doing
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: validation testing is that if something is calibrated well, and
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: to be fair, somebody's buying a car shouldn't really be
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: thinking like, hell, this thing's calibrated well, but it still
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: fits into the same thing, which is that if it's
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: calibrated really well, you probably don't notice it, right, So
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: like if an engine actually transmission is probably a better example.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: So you know, if you get in a car and
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: you drive it and you don't ever even really notice
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: the fact that it has a transmission, it's calibrated really well,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't really notice that it shifts are doesn't shift down,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: shifts weird locks up weird has strained the same thing
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: all the whole cars that way right, like sounds. You know,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: if you notice initially that something bothers you in the
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: first fifteen minutes and driving it, it's going to really
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: bother you when you own it. If you can hear
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: the road, you can hear the tires, if you can
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: if you can feel the seat, if the steering wheel
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: feels a kind of that's kind of a weird feeling
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: in my hand. If any of that stuff he noticed
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: right away, it's kind of like the hell out of you.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Oh that's this whole time. That's so true, and a
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: fun example of that. We got the Bronco here to test.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: So I drove the Bronco. There were some things that
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I found about it that I didn't care for, and
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that I liked about it.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And then Matt Scott drove it and he's like, man,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: He's like, I couldn't own this car. I said, why.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: He says it whistles. It's so loud the top and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's a blind spot for me. I
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: have hearing loss from the military, so I did not
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: hear the whistle that he heard, so it made me
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: realize like, oh, that's actually kind of a blind spot
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: for me. And my evaluation is like, when it comes
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: to vibration harshness, those I can pick up, but when
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: it comes to noise in a vehicle, I'm probably not
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: the best one to ye take a look at it.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: So that was a realization for me that you're right.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I mean Matt literally, he's like, I really like the car.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: It looks super cool, it's super capable. I couldn't drive
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: it because the top is so loud. Yeah, it's funny.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I mean I noticed in myself that I'm I'm not critical,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: but I notice everything in a car that you're being
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: paid to do.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I get in every car and I'm like, uh see right,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: retires out of balance. Yeah, the brake's pulling slightly to
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: the the alignment casters off slightly. You know. I just
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: it just I just must drive My wife nuts. I
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: just get in it and just and she's like, what
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: do you think? And I'm like, yeah, it's good, you know, right, yeah, yeah, So.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: But you're an engineer, that's how your mind works.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, well, yeah, I guess you're right. I mean,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: that's why it's what they pay me to do right
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: is to look at things and see areas of that
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: there's room for improvement, and then try to help figure
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: out if it's worth improving. That's a big part of it. Yeah,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: for sure. Is it worth the investment to make that different?
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the challenge, right, I mean, and
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: it's kind of part of part of why I do
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: like working with and rover Bit is they put a
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: lot of a lot of effort into stuff that other
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: manufacturers just kind of accept. Different clientele, you know, different
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: fit and finish and and what what what are what
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: are levels of people's expectations?
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: When you touch a knob, you know, it's always a
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: good example to mean, like when you reach down and
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: turn the fan control up, Like what is that? What
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: should that feel like? What should a door feel like
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: when you close it? What should you know, like everything
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: everything's that way? What should a steering wheel feel like
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: in your hand?
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Like what do the finishes actually matter? Does it need
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: to be cushioned? Is it too hot? Is it too cold?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Is it you know, there's a lot of a lot
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: of a lot of input on that, you know, I mean,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: you can you work with certain manufacturers, and you're like,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: you know, this just feels weird, Like the steering wheel
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: feels like it's two inches too high and I'm six
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: foot seven, how can how can that work for somebody
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: who's five foot five or like kind of like okay,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: yeah whatever, you know, not an issue what you were
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: talking about last night with the brute, right. I love Jeeps,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: but they have that huge tub and the tub is
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: a pain in the neck. I mean, I don't I
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: don't know anybody who thinks that the tub is a
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: great way to get in and out of a car.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: It's tough, you know, You're always flopping your legs around
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: trying to get your legs in and out of the tub,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you know, And but it's just, you know, we sort
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: of accept that and it is what it is. But
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: that's an interesting comment about land rovers, and it dovetails
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: in with what I oftentimes hear people who know what
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: land rovers well and that they've owned them for a
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: long time and they have some awareness around the vehicle.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: You'll most often hear that a land Rover is at
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: its best when it's near stock and that has been
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: true for back to the series two A that you
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: have and then you also have a one on nine two.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: You have a couple of serious trucks.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: And I also have a one on nine's that's the
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: sixty one that's okay, one yeah, And then I got
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: a and then eighty six Defender one ten, and then
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I have a ninety four in as ninety yeah. My
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: wife drives a Series two Discovery perfect, and I got
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: a Diesel niece on truck too nice.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I realized that the more land Rovers that I've owned,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: the more I've been inclined to keep them as close
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: to stock as possible, and hearing you talk about that
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: validation being very important to land rover, it now makes
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: more sense. There are some vehicles where they make them
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: to be a great canvas, like a jeep is a
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: good example of that. Deliver a super capable canvas for
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: people to then put in different seats or maybe they
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: put insulation in the roof because that's important to them.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: But like the base vehicle is this perfect canvas for modification,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: and it's probably why they're the most modified vehicle in
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the segment. You have a vehicle like a new Defender,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: which pretty much anything that you do to that car
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: other than a slight change in tires. Maybe you do
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a like a Johnson Rod style
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: lift where you get maybe thirty millimeters or twenty millimeters
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: more out of it for ground clearance. If you do
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: much more than that, the car starts to not work
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: You know, it has a fixed amount of articulation, it
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: has a fixed amount of wheel travel, and if you
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: start robbing too much extension travel to gain compression, then
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it's going to start not working as well. So I agree,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and even the defender behind us here it is stock. Yeah,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: I mean there's not a part on that vehicle other
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: than the rocksliders that wouldn't come from the factory, you know,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: the snorkels, a ManTech, the front bumper they put on
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: their special vehicle. It's all stock and it works best
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I found in that condition. Yeah.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Well that's probably especially true because you've got a lot
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: of skill set to be able to drive it, you know.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: And I think that I think that that's where a
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: lot of modification comes from, is that you have kind
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: of two options, right. You can neither learn to become
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: good at your craft and learn how to actually manipulate
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: a car, or you can just make a car so
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: you can bounce off of stuff. You know, you can
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: put bigger tires on and put bumpers and sliders and
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: skid plates and walkers and they don't worry about it,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: just go right. So it turns into a point and shoot.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: And we see that all the time. I mean, Molam
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: is the perfect place to see that. You just go
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: run Hell's Revenge on a Saturday afternoon. You can just
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: tell how people are by looking at their car, you know.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I mean I take a voke on Hell's Revenge. You know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: this is the totally no, totally yeah. We have this
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: car take a big body Range Rovers on Hell's Revenge.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: This car has no And I always tell people like that,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: you know, we take take customers who have never off
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: roaded before. I can think of this one. This one
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: woman is a judge out in New Jersey. She's I
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: don't know, maybe five tall, rarely drives, does own a
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: range Drover, comes on all of all these events with us,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: and she's terrified of most stuff. I mean, she's not
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: a comfortable driver. That just tells me how good the
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: cars are. And she's not getting flat tires and we're
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: not banging up and you know, and we will go
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: on to a month of event with people that have
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: never driven off road before on Hell's Revenge, and you know,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of hard trails. We might
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: replace maybe one wheel per car at the end of that.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: So some means we're not even hitting in wheels. We
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: don't air down. A lot of times we air up
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: trying to get trying to get more rim protection. Sure,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: you know, we're running on twenties, twenty one, twenty two's
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: soon to be twenty threes. It's ridiculous, I'm not doing
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: So that's what that works.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: That's just the way it is. That's what the consumer wants.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: That's a I mean, but that translates into skill, right,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: So you put somebody who really knows how to manipulate
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: a car, and my team's really good at it. So
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: they can sit right seat or even most of the
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: time the outside of the car and quickly teach some
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: money how to how to drive a car. And essentially,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: in some ways it's a lot like it's kind of
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: like driving remote control, just from person to person. You know,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: I'm driving the car from outside, even though I'm not
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: the one behind the wheel. I'm telling them where to go,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: how fast to go, how slow to go? I want
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: to slow down, where the tires need to go. It's
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: just it's just time and effort. It depends.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: If you want to drive forty miles an hour down
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: a trail, then you probably got to modify it. Yeah,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: if you want to just take a stock car and
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: go do really cool stuff with it. And by the way,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: is more challenging.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's fun to take stock vehicles places. That's
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: why I still have so much love for testing stock vehicles.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Is I really got to pay attention. Yeah, it's way.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's way more challenging. You actually have to
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: drive it, right. I mean I always take if I
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: do an event and have all these different kinds of
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: cars or whatever, the least capable car is in least
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: people's minds. A lot of times for me, that's a
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: vokes close to the ground. All will drive no low range.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I'll take whoever's probably the best driver, and I'll put
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: them in a voke with me. I'll just and I
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: just challenge them. That way, you get driver, Oh yeah,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I'm a great driver. Perfect, You're going to be in
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the vote with me, Like, let's go though, okay, I'll
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: do that's great. Well, one of the questions that I
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: wanted to ask you was what you see as kind
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: of fundamental modifications to a car. Which this is kind
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: of a fun transition because we just talked at length
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: about why training and driver's skill and confidence behind the
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: wheel and getting seat time is more important than modifications.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: But let's take your personal vehicles for example, or like
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: when you drove around the country and the new Defender
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: last year, what were some of the things that you
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: did focus on on the vehicle to make kind of
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: make it yours where you felt like you checked the
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: boxes that you need as a baseline.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I always start with tires, and
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: for me, it's not necessarily changing size, but it is
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: important to have a tire that fits again that mission
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: that you're looking for, so, you know, for the way
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: I use the car, I think it's important to have
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: something that it's got some increased kind of off road traction,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: a little bit of mud, but also idealing a perfect
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: world to be a little extra sidewall protection. So if
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: you can't go up in size, at least you can
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: go up in the quality of the tire itself. Give
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: you some help with it, because it doesn't really matter
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: how good you are. Sometimes you're just going to get
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: going to get a flat, you know, and that's primarily
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: going to be in the side walls. So you know,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: if you can put a BFG or something on it,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: that it gives you just that little bit of added
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: protection is a huge, huge advantage. Yeah, I would say, so,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: you know, after that, I think for me the next
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: important thing is to make sure that I actually have
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: a car that's recoverable. This is becoming more difficult. We
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: typically will always find good recovery points on the front
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: of a car and some capacity when we get to
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: the back. You know, ideally, I would rather have recovery
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: points that are not a that's not a trailer hitch.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: If I had my druthers, you know, in fact, I
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: will use a screw an eilet before I'll use a hitch.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Typically, they're not designed for that kind of a strain.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they're fine if you're just sort of
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: pulling something out and it's rolling, but if you're really
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: going to have to yank or something or the majority
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: of time, it's not designed for it, and it can
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: actually cause some problems. Back there and the islets. If
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: it has an islet, it's been designed for whatever the
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: manufacturers specs it too, right, So usually that's at least
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: one and a half times gross vehicle weight. Typically sometimes
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: it's as high as three or four times gross vehicle weight.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: And then if you really dig into it, sometimes you
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: can even find specs on angles and you know, you
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: really shouldn't be yanking anything ninety degrees if you I
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: say this, but you know, in the real world, you
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: don't always get to choose how you get stuck, you know,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: so you know, if the option is if you think
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: you might exceed the specifications of the car, or you're
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: going to be walking for fifty miles, and I would
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: probably give it a go.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, for sure, you take the hand you're dealt. Yeah.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I think the key is right is to understand, to
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: understand what risks you're choosing or not choosing to take.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: You know, you may get yourself into a position, right
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: like if this fails, I really am stuck, Like I'm
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: going to be in really big trouble. Sure, and maybe
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: it is worth then thinking about just hanging out with
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: the car for a few days, or calling for help
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: or something. I mean, those things do exist, But if
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: you don't even know, right, if you're just operating in ignorance,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it worked, just mean that you got lucky.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: So I think, and I think that's what comes with
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: experience and knowledge, is to be able to make those
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: decisions based on calculating those risks. So, yeah, recovery points
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I think are really important.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: One.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I guess on some of the newer stuff, you know,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's not a bad idea to think about.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: You know, if you can get a factory winch or something,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty awesome. I mean I kind of
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: love and hate the new winch setups on cars.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: They look good, but they don't function well. Yeah.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: I mean I love the fact that they are hidden
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: and they're not they're not present all the time, but
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: in the reality and the functionality of using it, that
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: kind of sucks.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: So you know what that said is I rarely use
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: my winch to ever pull myself out.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: I mean rarely, and a downtree or someone else is stuck,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: or you got a boulder that rolled into the trail, Yeah, totally.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: So for no more than I actually probably use it
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: in practicality, I hidden winch probably sufficient. But if I
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: was doing training with one all the time, or if
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I was going someplace that I knew that is going
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: to be using a wench all the time, I would definitely.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: I probably even as much as cut holes out in
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: my bumper so I get access to it. You should
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: be able to touch your winch. It's a good, good
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: rule of thumb, for sure. If you can't touch your wench,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: you're going to run into problems at some point. It's
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: just it's it's you know, especially with rope. I love rope,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: but it rope brings its own set of issues.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not all rainbows and unicorns with rope, no,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't, especially especially if you're getting a
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: lot of use out of it. If you're you know,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: kind of dragging it, especially muddy conditions or you're coming
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: over crowns of trails or where the rope might hit
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: the ground and get filled with dirt or hit a rock,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: and yeah, break very quickly.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: And you know, it pinches itself and so now you're
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: sure he's spooling out, spooling it, you know, and.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: It smears itself as it comes through the layers.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Yea, and you can't you know, yeah, yeah, I mean
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: it runs into its own it does of issues, so
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: it's it's not the perfect solution, but it's.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: A it's our best solution, good solution, yeah, yeah, particularly
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: around safety.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: And I like, actually like teaching people wenches better with cable.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: I mean mostly because if if you're comfortable and confident
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: with cable, then it's a rope's piece of cake. But
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: if you can't use a cable, it means that you're
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: probably not aware enough. In my mind, your lack of awareness, yeah,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: is an indicator that you might run into problem with
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: your winch in the future.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We were just talking about that last night, about
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: how when ropes first came out, they'd say, yeah, when
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: they snapped, they just fall to the ground. The first
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: time I had a rope snap that near the stalls
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: rating of the winch, it broke and went to the
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: tree that it was attached to, and the holy block
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: dented the tree, and then the rope and the arb
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: sale that I had attached to it when another sixty
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: feet beyond the tree, I mean, the difference is mass,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: so it's not likely to cut your leg off, but
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of energy in that rope that can
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: still do a lot of damage.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's you know, winching is one
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: of those things that it's a great skill set to have,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: but it's a skill set for sure. It's not something
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: that you just go by and bolt on and then
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: sort of figure it out, you know. You know, I
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: always we used to always use the Warren Intro kind
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: of uh, winching manual. It's great manual, it is. It's
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: kind of it's kind of a crap too, right, because
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: you really shouldn't be learned how to winch from a book.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: And if you're if if you have that thing in
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: your glovebox and that's that's what you're using the first
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: time you need it, it's.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Probably it's probably not the right tool for you necessarily. Yeah,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: it might work, you know. Yeah, take the time. If
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: you're going to invest fifty thousand dollars in a new truck,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: spend another five hundred dollars to go to a day
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: world drive training course to learn how to drive it. Yeah,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: you're going to spend two thousand dollars on a winch,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: probably closer to three thousand dollars or more with a bumper.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Then spend two three hundred dollars for a half day
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: winching course in your area, or find out when your
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: local club is going to do that, or go onto
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: the forum and ask somebody that lives in the area, like, hey,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: can we all get together and do a little winching class.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: That can be a great way for people to gain
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: some skills to use the tools that they've invested so
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: much money in.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, you know, and like especially with winches
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: because you know, as you know it Scott winch speeds
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: have gotten fast. You know, this this thing of speed winching.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: I don't really get it myself. I mean I get
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: it if you're like competitive winching. Sure, yeah, that's not
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: not my thing, right, Like it's it's an unstuck tool.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: But you know, like you can't get hurt from a winch,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: there's no doubt about it. I actually had just a
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: few weeks I heard about a guy who cut his
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: finger off with a winch. It was a technician at
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: a retailor and spooling it up, you know, just normal
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: puld it up and let his hang it in there.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: That sort of thing that us sort of figures like
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: horror stories where You're like, I guess that does really
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: does really happen. And so that's and that's kind of
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: career limiting, limiting thing for a technician to have a
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: missing finger. Sure, you know that's that's kind of hard
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: to recover from, no doubt. So you definitely definitely need
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: to know what you're doing.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, treat him with respect, and if you make the
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: investment in that great tool, learn how to use it. Yeah,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's really good advice for folks.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I like to ask in
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: these interviews is what is your two three one two
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: three favorite books? Books that have had the biggest impression
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: on you. It can be travel related or not, just
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: something you know, volumes that have really a difference than
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: you books.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm all over the board with books. I like
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Paul throw books. I don't of your ready, Yeah, I
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: just I don't know, you know, the thing I like,
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: it's weird, I send it. I tend to read travel
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: books more when I travel, which doesn't make it really
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: make any sense. That's true, And and I'm I'm a
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: huge fan of just taking books from places like that
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean I'm a klepto or anything, but you know,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: like I love it when you go into like a
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: a hotel and there's like a bookcase of old books
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: that people have left and I'll just sort of grab
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: something and read it. And so I end up with
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: with lots of books I actually have not I couldn't
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: even tell you what they were. I'm actually I really
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: like American history books too. I'm reading this great book
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: right now called Revolver. Okay, it's uh, I couldn't even
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: tell you who wrote it. It's it's really well written,
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: but it's about Samuel Colt. Oh interesting and and sort
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: of his progression of developing the cult Revolver and and
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: actually the story in and of itself is is it's
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: really mind blowing in my mind because you don't realize
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: how much our culture, not just from the fact that
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: it was a gun, but our actual history as a
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: nation has been really dictated by the manufacturing kind of
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: idea that Colt put together for his gun. And and
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't know anything really about him, and I love
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: to shoot stuff, but sure I didn't know that much
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: about sam Colt, but you know, he pretty much had
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: been in his gun like in his late teens, amazing
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: on a trip to India on a boat, you know,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: and amazing he kind of whittled this wooden revolver out
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: that you know, how it rotated the cylinders and all
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and all these kind of trials
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: and tribulations to try to get it patented and all
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: the We talk about political corruption now, but we're in
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: good shape compared to how things were then, and you know,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: literally normal the norm then was is that you paid
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: politicians to make things get approved, and that was considered
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: socially acceptable. But you know, just the whole manufacturing and
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: figuring out how to build firearms and machinery so that
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: they were had the interchangeable parts and assembly line you know,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: well before Henry Ford, sure, but you know assembly line
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: and building factories and other parts. It's a world and
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: things like that's really really that sounds it's quite a
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: good book.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: I like. I like that suggestion. I think I would
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: pick that one up.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good I stole it from my dad, well,
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: and that would make sense.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: My my dad also loves those old forty five's and
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: he's got a couple of them, and it would be
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: a fun one to get for him, maybe for Christmas.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: It's perfect time.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: That's fantastic, and I've just been reading it. It's like
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: it's just it's a it's captivating book, you know, because
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's almost like a writer reading. It's like
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: the writers reading it to the reader. Oh okay, the
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: way it's written.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know, it's it's all sort of got a
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: lot of footnotes and stuff on where information came from.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: But it's it's, uh, it's it's really easy. It's easy
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: to reads big book, but it's pretty easy. What great?
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: What a great suggestion. I like that a lot. That's great.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: And it's funny that you say that you read travel
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: books when you travel. I realized that I've started to
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: read sailing boats when I'm on my sailboat, so I think, maybe,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: which is funny. I should just be sailing the boat
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: reading about other people sailing the boat. So that's funny.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: And then the last thing that we'd like to ask
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: is if someone came to you, which I'm sure has
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: happened many times in your career, and they said, hey,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: I'd love to travel around the world, what advice would
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: you give that person? Just your kind of unfiltered, practical
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: advice about what would be their first steps or their considerations.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess I think my first piece of advice
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: would be is don't be afraid to start local. I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: think a lot of times, I mean, we're especially if
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: we live if you live here, right, Like, we are
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: so incredibly blessed in this country. Not only do we
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: have an incredible amount of diversity. You could spend the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: whole lifetime travel in the US, get to experience a
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: lot of a lot of stuff.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: We have a ton of culture here. Contrary to what
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: most Europeans think, we do have a ton of culture here, and.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: We're just different.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: It is different, right, and that's cool. And things that
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: we take for granted, like the fact that we travel
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: from state to state and we have all this federal
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: land and we have access to areas that everywhere else
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: in the world would be owned by somebody and behind
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: a fence. You know, I would I would just say, like,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: you know, start start local. Go go do some stuff
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: that you think you might want to do. Get in
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: get an idea of what it is, because because really travels,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: like there's a lot of different things that are related
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: to that. Some people love the manics of it. Sure
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: they love figuring out if they can make their car
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: do ten thousand miles. Sure, you know other people or
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: it's all about culture, and some people it's about food,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: and some people it's about buying stuff. You know, like
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: you figure out what you like and then build a
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: trip around what it is that you like, you know,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: you know versus you know. I think me personally, the
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: thing I like about travels culture. I love seeing how
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: other people live and work and how they make a
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: living and what's important to them, what's not important to them.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of times that's that's helpful
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: for me just individually. You kind of puts things into perspective,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: like these people have to work really hard to have
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: clean water every day. Or actually your great example wasn't that,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I was in Grenada. You can't get
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: eggs there, and I don't even think about it, right,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: make eggs here as a staple. You go to seven
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: to eleven, get eggs. You go there, You're like you
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: got eggs. You're like, oh yeah, maybe like a couple
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: of weeks and I have some fresh eggs or something.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like you just take take it for
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: granted and I think that's kind of the beauty of
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: it is to figure out what part of it that
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: you like and then figure out how to do it.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't it doesn't have to be big
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: and long either, right, it doesn't. Like I live in
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Colorado and my wife and I live to go to Wyoming,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: and Wyoming is close. I'm an hour away from the border.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: It's a different place. It's a different place in where
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: I live. I mean, people are different. The train's different,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: way more way more remote, you know, and it's it's
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: like it's I could be in Siberia, you know, it's
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: a different place. Sure, And don't get caught up on
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: the name if you you know, like, just just go
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: do what you like to do. It's it's about using
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: the world as a tool and car get there and
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: I actually be a car more whatever you want to
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: your feet, but whatever you're into, just just just do it.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Just have fun with it. Yeah it don't worry about it,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: you know. I don't get caught up on the I
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: got to fill my passport up. If that's what you
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: decide you want to do, great.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: But but don't don't let it block what you got
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: right in your backyard well and that and that dovetails
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: so nicely into how the conversation started, which is being
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: present in these experiences that we have. And I appreciate
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: that reminder from you, and I've seen you live that
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: way in your life, and for those that are listening,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: just it's it's not about filling the passport. It's about
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: doing something that you love with people that you love,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: and then being really present in that experience so that
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: you have those memories to come back to later in life.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: So I really appreciate your time, Sean. How do people
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: find more about you? How do they find you on Instagram?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Or what's your website? Anything you'd like to share so
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: that people can find out more information about you and
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: what you do and share your travels.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: My SEEI company website is S two s X dot
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: com and I don't do Facebook, but I do Instagram,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: which is a c to some sea the number two
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: su M and that's my personal one. So that's usually
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: kind of what I'm up to, sure, and then yeah,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: my company website is kind of all the stuff that
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: I'm working on that that I'm allowed to put out
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: there in the Sure some of it, A lot of
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: the stuff I can't talk about or I can't really
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: like publish much. But sure, yeah, but yeah, that's kind
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: of kind of what I'm up to.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: And you've started contributing some content to Overland Journal and
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: Expedition Ortals, so really appreciate your involvement. You guys that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: are listening will start to hear and see more of
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Sean in future editions of the magazine, which is really exciting.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: He's got a comprehensive compressor test coming up that he
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: did that I think is going to make for some
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: really wonderful content. And Sean, thank you so much for
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: not only being a great friend, but for being on
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: the podcast and sharing your insights. We really appreciate you
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: being here today.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, thanks for having me.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're welcome, and thank you all for listening. We'll
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: talk to you next time.