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What I've Learnt - Melissa Browne · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're starting over, rebuilding after setbacks, looking to create for your family or simply ready for more, Dare to Be Wealthy will help you understand that you're not too old, too late, or too behind.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're one decision away from rewriting your financial future.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm very excited to have Melissa Brown, award-winning former accountant and financial advisor, who spent 20 years building three successful businesses across different industries and becoming an independent multi-millionaire along the way.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: She did it after a divorce in her early 30s left her with nothing.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Mel Brown is now a financial educator and has asked thousands of women over the years at events and webinars who here would like to be wealthy?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Of these women, there's usually only one brave enough to raise her hand.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what about who would like to just be comfortable or who would like to have a financial choice?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then most hands go up.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: So Mel has examined how being the good girl that so many of us were brought up to be also meant not daring to understand how to build wealth.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: The cutesy concept of girl maths is not something women should be laughing at.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Mel Brown tells a story of wealth not being selfish or unfeminine, but being a source of freedom, choice, and impact.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because when women hold wealth, the world changes.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it starts with you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I am thrilled to welcome Mel to the What I've Learned podcast to talk about money, security, and carving one's future as a woman.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, that gives us agency and an opportunity to create our own journey.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, Mel, your story is an interesting one.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, welcome.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So your journey is an interesting one.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Where did it all start for you?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's such a big question.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, when it comes to money, my journey very much started when I was a young person.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because even though I didn't have money, I experienced what our household did with money.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's true for many people, is those experiences when we're younger shape our viewpoint of money.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, my dad was very much the breadwinner.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And back in the day, because he earned the money, he ruled the money.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And looking back, absolutely was coercive control in that he dictated where my mum could work.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: He dictated, here's some documents, you will sign them.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the money that you can have for the household.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up watching that going, I never wanted to be that.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: But also because I was a Western Sydney chick, really not having many women I knew that had wealth.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up with the understanding that, well, my my possibilities are limited because of what I've been through and where I was born.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of people feel the same in that they believe they're limited because of their circumstance.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what I know, and part of why I wrote the book, is that that is absolutely not true.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really important reflection that you just outlined because particularly the archetype of the breadwinner male who then controls all choices from household to car purchased to holidays taken, with money put in for the joint, you know, sort of funds of the household.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: That is really probably primarily what most women grew up with, particularly in the month generations.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And my mum was unusual.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: She was actually a magistrate.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So she was a working woman from she was a barrister.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: She actually, but she grew up with a very a very a lot of strong men around her who are in business, but she always wanted her agency.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she was quite ahead of her time, to be honest.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think she was the only one doing law out of 30, you know, 30 uh students.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was really a different time.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: But that was unusual.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was more common what you're outlining.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, I still know lots of women in that position.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not actually from the dark ages, it actually is still how a lot of people, because also the other factor, and I think this is uh this has probably affected your mom and your family, when you stop to have your children, at the end of the day, you you jump out of that financial loop because you focused often on the nurturing, the creating the kids.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so even if you were in it in the beginning, you you sort of lose that spot in the in the system.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you become, in some ways, slightly marginalized by virtue of the fact that you want to focus.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And this is for women that can.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the research backs that up.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So 90% uh of women manage the household budget.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we have agency as far as where the money is spent and the day-to-day expenses, but it shows, and this is a UBS wealth management report, less than half of us are involved in long-term decision making.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not involved in investing decisions.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's both for young women right through to Gen X and Boomer women.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's frightening because one, one in two marriages end in divorce.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to be interested and invested in what's going on.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: But two, the research also shows that whilst men and women outperform the index, women are better investors than men.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we should be involved.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be involved and to bring that lack of confidence and that different approach that women have is actually our superpower.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So having a seat at the table for financial and wealth creation decisions is really important.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you yourself are just researching, I saw that you'd been through your own divorce and that that was some sort of catalyst for you to really, because as happens to many who are divorced, often it's the woman who falls off the cliff in effect because she has stopped to have her children, finds herself disempowered, and I know many, and then you, as you talk about, you had to find a way to then re-empower yourself financially and know that you could never feel that vulnerability again, I'm assuming.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I really scorched earth when I uh divorced.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So something I do not recommend anyone does.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um my first husband, yeah, definitely not.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So my first husband uh and I, when we divorced, he turned to me during it and said, You'll never make it on your own.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and we say things when we're emotional, but I I'm petty and and I just went, fine, I'll show you.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I gave all of my divorce proceeds and everything in my business and personal accounts to charity, which was so that from that point, anything that I do was a result of me, not him.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem with that is I had to go into five figures of debt to fund cash flow.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have money for board.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I had to move into a frat house with five mates.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I always tell that story because whilst I have that financial theory, I was an accountant at the time, someone that's supposed to be good with money, and yet making this emotional decision.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I share it is that I know what it feels like not to be at the age and stage you should be.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I also know how to come back from less than nothing because I've done it myself.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, to the point where in my late 40s, I was a multimillionaire and able to have choice or not.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: But for too many women that I meet, they make those decisions if they go through divorce or they according that ageism of saying, I don't have enough time.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in my 30s, I'm in my 40s, 50s, 60s, I don't have 30 years to invest, or don't have time.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so therefore they're not acting.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, part of why I wrote this book is to expose the lie that women aren't as as great at building wealth, to expose the lie that we are not capable and to show a different way of building wealth that is gentler, that doesn't mean you have to work harder and harder and is a lot simpler.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really important too, because you're right, there's a sense that the harder you work, and and obviously we see the traditional slug, slog, you know, process where masculine, yeah, and go hard and go full steam, all of which I, by the way, totally respect people doing.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what you're saying is work smarter, not necessarily harder, and be savvy in what you know and understand.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, honestly, for me, I've learned a lot myself over the last 20 years about all of this.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really do relate to a lot of what you're saying.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of my girlfriends, we would talk about this.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, many are most are working in some form, but if you don't make your money work for you, then you're actually just working to fill the cup that you it gets empty very quickly.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't earn your way to wealth.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you were simply working harder and harder and harder, that is not how we build wealth.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: We build wealth through investing.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can't even build wealth just by paying off debt.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've met a lot of people, particularly women, that are really scared of having debt.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to approach debt realizing that it's a bridge.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's mortgages are necessary.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: We need to like we don't want to overextend ourselves and get the dream house and the reno and all the things.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: But unless we're also investing, it's really uh difficult to create that choice that many of us want.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what I see too is women think that I just have to keep tightening the belt.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where am I going to find this extra money to invest?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And women particularly have been taught to be frugal, but not to find more cash.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got a free resource that's 20 plus ways to find 10K in 12 months.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because when COVID hit and millions of Aussies grabbed 10K out of their super, and then 67% of blokes spent it on online gambling, 67% of women spent it on clothes and shoes.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I realized that the problem was that we didn't know how to find more cash.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I share how to do that so that you can have agency, so that you can invest, so that you can pay that down bad debt and have ultimately more choice.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, you talk about the gender lens too, which I'm I'm very interested in, and the good girl syndrome, all of that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's quite interesting to me because I think you're right, particularly my generation, but also, I mean, I'm finding a lot of the younger ones are much more savvy.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And because they're on Instagram and because they're constantly following people, they are they seem a little, little more educated than let's say your generation or my generation.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's an element of the good girl syndrome that you talk about, which is I find quite fascinating.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to that a little bit?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so certainly uh there's more resources available now.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I was when I was looking at this, I didn't.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't really podcasts, there wasn't ETFs, there wasn't app investing apps.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's so easy to invest now.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly we're talking about it more.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So podcasts and conversations are happening publicly.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when you and I grew up, I think it was you didn't talk about money, sex, politics, and religion.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just is not polite dinner conversation.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember even a few years ago when Lisa Wilkinson left the Today Show and Georgie Gardner came in, she's she was asked about her pay, and she said, Oh, that's crass.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to talk about that.
• 12:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's conditioned.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas a guy would go, Oh, yeah, I'll tell you my pay.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is that it shows you how much of a man I am.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting that because sometimes, like, I've got older daughters, uh, younger daughters, obviously, but they're, you know, they're in their 20s and 30s.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll say, you know, they'll ask me a question, like, about a particular financial I'll go, no, you don't need to worry about that.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've got it in hand.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Mom, why don't you just talk about it?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, Mum, why don't you talk about it?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was raised to be very private and very, you know, and I think that a lot of that there's a complexity too.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: It might be, it's, it might be a positive or a negative, but there seems to have been a lens of shame around financial discussion, financial struggle, financial rebuild, all of that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you're right, and particularly around the the gender lens of women feeling bordering on shy, if not apologetic.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Seems to be Absolutely.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: But if you think about the portrayal of women in media, uh, so if we you know, I want to ask you a question.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you've I want you to think of TV shows, movies, and books, can you name me five wealthy women that weren't, and I asked this question in my book, that weren't wealthy because of family and they were married into it.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it can't, it has to have been earned.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And thirdly, they can't be evil, so they can't be bad.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's generally if someone, if a woman's got money, she's obviously like Cruella Devil.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: She's terrible.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So can you name me women women?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Probably.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there are certain women I suppose I see and I'm aware of that have carved their own path.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they can't be real life, so it can't be can't be real life women like the city.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're talking about archetypes, yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's got to be TV, film, and books.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So actual characters.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I can name Samantha from Sex in the City because she had a pre PR firm, none of the others.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I there was when I did it, there was maybe three that I can.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: But if I said to you, name a bloke, all of the cast devotions, 10 all of the cast devotions, 11.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is so many blokes that uh successful.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's that whole thing to come back to the nice girl, is if we're not shown it, if we're typically portraying women as, well, we're just spenders through brunch and are reckless with money, then that's what we're going to believe is possible for ourselves.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I mean you look at that, I mean that's interesting.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's interesting because you look at the Kardashian, for example, and they have been, while they started out as what seemed to be very sort of light and fluffy, what they've created and carved, and that, you know, that mumager, you know, Chris, is quite extraordinary.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she's been through so many divorces, so many, you know, as we know.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you, you know, even though they're not sort of necessarily the absolute ideal in many ways, there is something to be said for what they've created and that they've owned their own path because you've got Kim with four little kids and you know, facing a divorce.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she's actually, I think, tripled her well since.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, and so if if I sort of think of somebody like that family, and particularly this, they're all women, they're a very strong example of that, making sure that they paddle their own canoe and also very clear that the men are not the defining means of them earning their living, which is really interesting.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Marriage is a sort of like sidebar, you know, if it's not working for them, like five rather than this.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's my ticket, which so many women feel stark.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: If we looked at the gender language conversation, you know, the world of money was created by men for men.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the language is masculine.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: We have aggressive and assertive risk profiles.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are beating the market, there are bull markets, like so much of it is masculine language around sport war or otherwise.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you might not think that really means much, but if you're a woman looking at her super fund, looking, oh, I'm not really assertive, I feel more balanced.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's potentially a one and a half percent percentage difference, which could be tens of thousands of dollars over your life.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you think, well, but is like language, it can't be that, can't make that much of a difference to our finances.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Coke, when they, and I tell this story in the book, Coke, when they wanted to sell more Diet Coke, they realized the men weren't buying it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So what they did was they repackaged it and brought out Coke Zero.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Same product, but now it doesn't have diet, which is a feminine word in men's eyes.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's got Coke Zero, which is tougher.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So suddenly blokes flocked to Coke Zero on board it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if we could change the language so that women felt more comfortable with, or at the very least, called out the language so women weren't self-selecting out because of they didn't resonate with it, I think that's the sort of thing that it's really important to highlight as well.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And your personal story, how did you go from literally walking out of a marriage with nothing, giving a lot of it to charity and saying whatever I earn moving forward is going to be mine?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: What was it that you did?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't just one thing.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes people just want, what's the silver bullet?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was many things.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to learn, I had to pay down that debt.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had a business that was barely paying me a commercial wage.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And like a lot of women, where I was doing it because I, you know, I was good at it, not doing it, looking at the numbers and wanting it to be profitable.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I learned how to become a much more successful, profitable business owner, and I doubled that business year upon year upon year.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I learned how to invest.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I there was no, like I found a broker.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I had conversations, I read books, and I made huge mistakes with investing in shares.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I learned over time how to invest and then invested in business as well and property.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't one thing, it was overtime both managing debt, finding more cash, building businesses, and learning to invest.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's essentially what I teach women to do.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it was also changing that mindset of what was possible for me.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you were saying it was a multi-pronged attack in terms of how you built yourself a wealth portfolio, investment, property, paying down debt at the same time.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think an interesting thing is often people go, well, I'll just pay the debt down.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then they what they do is they don't build wealth at the same time and they don't have to be mutually exclusive.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Would you agree?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I am so not a fan of this or that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a fan of this and that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if I have bad debt, if I have credit cards or buy now pay later or personal loans, I want to get rid of those because credit cards I'm paying 80% plus interest.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: After pay, I might not be paying a single cent of fines, but if you go onto Afterpay's own website, you will overspend by 54% if you use it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Credit cards of Dunn and Braid Street Research, you'll overspend 4%.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's on Afterpay's own website.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: They proudly declare that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a one-woman crusade against Afterpay.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Credit card, it's 18% overspend, according to Dunn and Braid Street Research.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if I've got any of that, I can't get a better return in investing from that.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to get rid of those.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: But if I've got a mortgage, which hopefully I'm paying, I've got a five in front of that mortgage.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: 30-year average share market return for Australia is 9.3%, according to Vanguard Index.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I can get a better rate with my money than building that, than just paying off my debt.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to get comfortable with some debt, as long as it's the right sort of debt.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, I might want to pay a bit more off my mortgage.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm building that buffer.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so if life happens, I've got those reserves.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: But if I'm not also investing, I don't have the choice, I think, that I do.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I can't eat my house.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning that unless I'm willing to downsize or I'm unless I'm willing to bring in a border, I can't make money from that asset.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to be doing both.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So often I'll have women go, Well, I'd love that, Mel, but where am I going to get the money for all that from?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where rather than tightening it, just tightening our belt, it's learning to find more cash, which is that resource that I talked about earlier around how could I find 10K in 12 months?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't mean working smarter.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, working harder and harder.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've got one single mum in our community who looked at that challenge and went, right, I that is how I'm going to do more.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's got kids that were desperate to have pets, but she's like, I can't afford them.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So she does math pause.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: She they walk pets, they look after pets, and she made$11,500 the first year she did that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because people love their pets and they want them looked after.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there is so many ways.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could be walking every day, you just happen to pick up a pet on your way, and you could be earning a lazy five, six grand from your daily walk.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's realizing that you've got more choice than you perhaps think you do.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just figuring Bring out what's right for you.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and being creative.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, they talk about the side hustle and all of that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's much more how people are thinking more laterally, that you know, you can actually have a few.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know my kids, for example, they have a number of jobs that are quite, you know, lucrative, even if they're full-time, they'll do some other things.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's also about educating the next gen that they do have options and that there is a lot out there.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: But as you say, so so if you've got a scenario, and I know some people in this, particularly women, often, as you say, either post-divorce or and they're just constantly behind the eight ball, they're trying to find traction.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: All of this sounds great, but I know in practice it's really challenging to actually juggle.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Also, there's a whole lot of other factors which I think are at play, which is the constant selling on Instagram and everywhere else, buy this, buy this.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was somewhere recently, I think I was in a mall, and I was like, this is like almost like a comedy, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've got dollar t-shirts for$90 or whatever it is, all of which is really attractive.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're feeling, I could see women in there just looking, going, I just need to buy something.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's another factor.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Women are also the hugest target.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: But women in particular, for the, you know, spend and you'll feel better.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Buy this makeup, you'll feel better.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: All of us have been subject to that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: All of us understand that, you know, buy lipstick, you'll feel better.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a complex layering that I think women also need to acknowledge that we are subject to an avalanche of sales to buy stuff.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll end up, as we all have, with you know, three of the same pair of shoes because you just go for like you might buy it at a different year or whatever.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there's an element where I think we all have to speak honestly about how targeted we are.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: While every while these companies make the most extraordinary amount of money, and women are going into, as you say, whether it's afterpay or credit card or whatever it is.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I think that is something that needs to be tackled.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure how, but I do see the younger generation trying to push back on it.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really, it's really hard.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like my grandparents in their day, they had to leave the house to spend money.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't get easy access to credit to do that.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And on a Sunday, they couldn't spend at all because shops are all shut.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas now I could be having a glass of wine on a Friday night on getting access to credit and spending and getting myself into serious debt.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think recognizing that as you said.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got a few a few tips for that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like one super easy one is unfollow, unsubscribe, and unspend from anyone causing you to overspend.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: A second one is to do a 30-day financial detox.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: So 30 days of not spending.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And as you go to spend, you're asking the question, what emotion is driving that spending?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because I'm bored?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because I'm anxious?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because I it's a Monday and I've just got into this habit of doing this?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because it's a Friday night, my partner's watching the cricket or the footy?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just got into the habit of it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what am I going to do instead?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Automating.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So setting up your bank accounts and automating so that your investing automatically happens.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Your saving and bills automatically happens.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then live to what's left.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Getting rid of credit cards and afterpay so that if you can't afford something, you can't afford something.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Don't buy it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you want more, it's doing hacks like the well, how would we find more cash?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's setting up your financial life in such a way that it serves you.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's a radical act in the current society that we live in to say no, to choose not to consume.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I love fashion, I love stuff.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: But what I do, and a really simple hack I do, is it every time I go to buy clothes and shoes, which is my personal brutal action, I have to I have to spend a dollar, that same dollar on investing, and I have to donate a dollar.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So used to just do the first one, which meant I had to be able to for twice as much.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So every time I spent a dollar, I have to invest a dollar.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm enjoying today and looking after future male.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I've just added on donate a dollar as well.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: So now I have to be able to for three times.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it curbs my spending, but also if I choose to do it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Makes you think makes you think so it stops that unconscious zombie consumerism.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: But also if I choose to do it, I'm also looking after future me at the same time.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's brilliant.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think that it's like a retraining.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And as you talk about financial education, and you've got to really that that is a very good point.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Our grandparents didn't, they have to go out and make a decision to buy that dress or those shoes or go to chat set, whatever it is.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now they can be, oh, I can't sleep.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna start scrolling, right?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm as you point out, there are so many times where it becomes it's a tool that's so ridiculously easy to access and spend money in one second.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a dopamine hit.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a drug.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying is by the, I suppose it's like a three bucket concept you've got where I mean different to the other traditional buckets, but it's sort of like spend, invest, spend, invest, donate.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, a lot of those apps and those Shopify cards created to give you that dopamine experience.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And many of us crave dopamine.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you're ADHD, you crave it even more.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also recognizing where else you can get dopamine from.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get dopamine from sunshine, from the smell of cooking, from having a dance, uh from exercise, from a big poo, from an orgasm.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are so many ways you can get dopamine.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one good reason to buy vibrator.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's recognizing that I could, these are alternatives.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if I was doing a 30-day detox, figuring out where I was triggered to spend, I could swap in another dopamine hit.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got a friend that I have the biggest bell and laugh every time he rings.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: So he's my he's one of my dopamine hits.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have those friends.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: People that just lift you up and you make sure that you tap them, and nothing like a good phone call.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you feel like you're gonna, and you just need a chi chat sometimes to just yeah, distraction because the distraction of that that doom scrolling that often leads to the fashion scrolling.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing that you sort of often, which I notice is they make you sign up.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you actually get an email every five minutes for who you signed up for, which we've all been, where you just let your inbox is like a you know, a a sort of permanent marketing ad.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's really frustrating.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I just delete that.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love sales times because I just sit there and unsubscribe.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, here's another one, unsubscribe.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's very so I think this is a really fascinating discussion in terms of your financial education.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you offer private mentoring?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you offer one-on-one?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: How do you, or you know, do you have a series of- I used to have one-on-ones, um, but I when I was financial advisor and I'm super introverted and I work out that does not work for my energy.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: But also the cost of financial advice now is$4,000 plus in Australia.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And most people just can't afford that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm now a financial educator licensed to give general advice.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I do that through freebies on my website.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do that through my writing, so through books.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I do that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've got 90-minute masterclasses.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So in the time it takes to watch a movie, you can learn the basics of share investing.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got an eight-week course as well, where you can actually create your own financial plan, learn about mindset and investing and more.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got lots of different ways, depending on how you best learn.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing, listening to you, you know, often women are like, well, it's not that sexy.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're like, it's a little bit like it's a bit dry for the average person who's not an accountant.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: You just want to, you know, go here to my accountant, take all that and do it.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I totally there's an element, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I think what you're trying to say is, and often this is the case, sometimes it's the least sexy stuff that we've all got.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you got to get your hands dirty and you've got to actually sometimes get into the grit of what it is that you know, the the plan that you need and therefore understanding the architecture is what you're really saying.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I see my program is kind of like spanks under a really beautiful dress.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't want to show off the spanks, but God is gonna make that dress look amazing rather than the wrong underwear where you go like, ugh, what's going on here?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Why on earth didn't you do something?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually that's a great, I think we'll use that as our little grab.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's just really a very good and very effective way to visualize what it is that your book is about and what you do.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's not sexy, but God, it works.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it makes and life's a lot more sexy when you're not struggling, let's be honest.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the ability to give back to causes you're passionate about, the give it the ability to choose to work or not, the ability to go overseas, like that that's sexy.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And on that note, I'd like to thank you, Mel, for uh a wonderful interview.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's great to see that you are tackling this very important issue.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mel, thank you so much for having me.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for joining us on the What I Glove Podcast.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed that interview because we are so privileged to have a wonderful platform where guests come on and share lessons learned, rivers crossed, mountains climbed.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: We love our shared humanity and we are so grateful to have such a beautiful community.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So remember to stay curious, kind, and connected, and we'll see you next time at the What I've Learned Podcast.