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Transcript

Injury Prevention For Competitive Dancers · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Competitive dance is one of the most physically demanding activities out there, and it's inevitable that your dancer will experience an injury or two over the years.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Joining us today on Making the Impact are Arizona Dance Physical Therapist, Alexis Sands, and owner of Trigger Foot Therapy Tower, to give us the insights too on injury prevention for dancers.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_05: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here, like always, with my fabulous co-host, Leslie Mealer.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Courtney Ortiz, how you doing?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I am so good.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: How you doing?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: I'm great.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_05: Good.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_05: It's a new year.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm ready for 2022.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's starting off good so far.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a couple weeks.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're just kind of slowly inching into it.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be fine.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_05: And the competition season is coming up.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Can we please I just all all year long?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Once it's over, I'm like, are we are we done with summer yet?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Can we get to can we get to comp season?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: But summer flies by and then it's fall and then we're prepping, and then the season's here.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: I know.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_05: Especially with competitions starting so much earlier into January these days.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm sure maybe a lot of listeners are either have maybe already done like a preseason, or maybe you have are getting ready for the regular competition season.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes they start in January or February.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_05: We're getting ready over here as well.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_05: We are hard at work staffing judges at a ton of different IDA affiliated competitions this season.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_05: So we can't wait to watch all of your dances around the country.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_05: Shout out to all of our IDA judges and affiliated competitions.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for your support.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_05: And I want to let everybody know really quick that we love you fans so much.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you to everyone who has been tuning into our podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_05: And speaking of Spotify, new for 2022, you can actually rate us on Spotify now.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you knew that, Leslie.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I did see that recently, and that's that's long overdue, Spotify.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all better head come on because come on.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a minute.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, join us on Spotify, write us a review there if that's where you listen.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I actually know several people who do listen through Spotify, not Apple Podcasts.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_05: I listen on Spotify.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, they're not able to write it or weren't able to write a review, so now you can.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yay.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so so go give us some love over there.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: We need to get those numbers up.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_05: Give us some love.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_05: Five-star ratings on Spotify.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_05: And don't forget to hit subscribe on wherever you love listening to podcasts.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: 2021 and 2022 have just given us so many new listeners and so many people who have just been telling us that they love us.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think people loved us and maybe didn't say much early on.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: But now they're really where they're really saying it, and because we have so many places that you can leave us some love.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: We are super grateful for everyone who has left us reviews and donated recently on Kofi.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_05: So if you would love to support our podcast and leave us a review, you can head on over to Kofi.com slash making the impact and donate as little as$3.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_05: We've been getting donations as much as$30, which is so generous.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you to everyone.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_05: And we want to give a shout out to some of our recent Kofi donors.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_05: And this one is coming from Liliana.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_05: And she says, I love listening to these with my mom.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: Taught us both a lot about competitive dance.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: So oh my gosh, a dancer.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Liliana.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And mom.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_05: And mom.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_05: And we have Erica as well who donated to us on Kofi.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_05: And Erica said, So happy that you tackled the issue of cultural appropriation.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_05: I've seen so many cringy dances over the years.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_05: Such an important and timely discussion.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_05: We have so much to learn.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Amen, Erica.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I I really enjoyed that episode.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was really important.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think our guests were the very right choice for that cultural appropriation episode.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks, Erica, for your support.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we can't forget to roll out the new year here with our sponsors and saying thank you so much to them for their support over the years.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: One of our season sponsors is Dance Costumes by Urzua.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you're still on the hunt for a custom costume or need that perfect outfit for convention classes, then we would love for you to check out Dance Costumes by Urzua and Urzua Dancewear.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: They offer high-end custom and semi-custom dancewear in costumes for dancers around the world.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Choose from a wide selection of fabrics, styles, and designs when creating your custom costume for competition.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we are so happy to have partnered with Urzua Dancewear to create an exclusive Making the Impact dancewear line, which features sports bras, leggings, bikers, jackets, and more in our signature ombre colors.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that line, Courtney.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And now until February 15th, you can receive 30% off of Making the Impact shorts and bikers from Urzua Dancewear.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Don't miss out on this great offer and head on over to DanceCostumesByrzua.com to view all their designs.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_05: Alright, listeners, it's time to jump into this episode.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't even know if I told you what we're talking about today in our intro.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_05: You didn't.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_05: But Leslie's intro intro to the podcast told everybody.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_05: My previous intro.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_05: And the title.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_05: Obviously, you clicked on this and you are tuning in because you want to hear all about injury prevention today.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_05: That is the topic.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_05: It is a very important topic.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_05: We've been waiting a long time to do this episode, so I'm so glad it's finally here.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: And as competitive dancers, it's important to remember that staying healthy is really crucial to our dance training, but injuries might happen, unfortunately.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_05: And we're going to talk about today how we're going to navigate those injuries if they do happen.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: And this will be a really helpful resource, I think, for dancers who may be experiencing an injury currently, and also for parents and teachers on how to navigate handling that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_05: So we have two spectacular guests who are brand new to our podcast joining us today.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_05: I can't wait for you to get to know them and hear all of their knowledge that they're about to share.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: I'm excited to first up welcome the owner of Sugarfoot Therapy, which is a physical therapy-based strength and conditioning program, and they specialize in treating dancers.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'm happy to welcome Katie Shahr to our podcast.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome, Katie.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to be here.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_05: And I know that you co-own Sugarfoot Therapy with your husband, and you're a dancer yourself.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_05: So tell the world a little bit more about you, some of your career credits, and then also how you got into developing sugarfoot.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up at a competition dance studio in Texas and moved out to LA at the age of 18.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I went to college at Loyola Marymount University studying dance there and then continued on to have a nearly 20-year career based in LA.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was very fortunate.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: I got to fulfill my dreams and then some credits, including world tours for Katy Perry and Pink, and Super Bowl Halftime Show, and Taylor Swift's Shake It Off music video, and all the award shows, the Grammys, the American Music Awards, you know, years and years of doing it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it was wonderful.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: About halfway into my career, I met my husband Nick while he was pursuing his doctorate of physical therapy at USC and was exposed to this world of physical therapy, which was very convenient for a working professional dancer.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of how it all started.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I suddenly had this insider access to a PT.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so every time I had aches and pains, instead of doing the typical uh brush it off, push through it, it'll go away, I had somebody to ask.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I learned a lot.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually found it more empowering because so much of the way physical therapy has shifted and is continuing to evolve is that treatment is most often through movement re-education.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's through moving your body, moving your own body.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you don't always, it's not about seeing somebody every day who's gonna force you back into alignment.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, this person can just teach me better ways to move my own body and my body can heal itself.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really like this light bulb thing for me.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was really fortunate because when I was in tour rehearsals for pink and had to be hanging from one arm, flying across an arena, like I had a custom warm-up designed by our team of physical therapists to get my shoulder ready to sustain all of that force.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had years of that insider access, but then once we so we started sugarfoot therapy in 2015, and then we opened our brick and mortar physical therapy facilities in Los Angeles two years later, and that's called moti physiotherapy.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: So now we have 22 doctors of physical therapy on staff.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Almost half of them either have a dance background or have come to specialize in treating dancers.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we treat a lot of competitive and professional dancers.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, just kind of the response we get over and over again is as dancers go through the rehab process, they're like, man, I feel better than I felt before I was ever injured.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's honestly just because they're moving their body in a different way, you know, and it's so I think that's the big lesson is like it should be empowering.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's so much you can do, so much self-care you can do, but then you also have to know when you need to go see a professional like Alexis.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, totally.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's that's really in over the years, and me coming from my background, and now that I'm an entrepreneur in the healthcare industry, which never thought that would have happened, but my mission has really become bridging these worlds and elevating physical therapists because I think they are incredible experts.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so elevating them by connecting them with the dance community and making sure the dance community is aware of how incredible they are and how they can and really should be like your go-to first point of contact for all things orthopedic.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, injuries are probably going to happen.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe that PTs are are the best like step one to addressing them.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: Me too, Katie.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna talk all about all of our injuries, I'm sure.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_05: So many injuries, both of us, during this episode.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_05: But wow, that's awesome.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_05: So inspiring, and love hearing about your career as well.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_05: So congrats on all of that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: And thank you so much for joining us on this episode.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_05: Happy to be here.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_05: All right, so Katie hinted at who our next special guest is, and she's the owner of AZ Dance Medicine Specialists.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: So she helps prevent injuries and helps train dancers on how to navigate, competitive dancers, especially, how to navigate their bodies properly and help achieve those goals.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_05: I'm excited to welcome Alexis Sam's to our podcast.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome, Alexis.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's morning here in Peter.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Good afternoon to all of you guys.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for having me.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_05: Of course.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_05: I'm super excited.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_05: I've seen you on the forums, and you always have such great knowledge and wisdom to share from this background, specializing in physical therapy.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_05: So please feel free to share with the listeners a little bit more about you, your background, and how you got involved or wanted to get involved in helping dancers.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess my story all starts with a picture.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea in retrospect where I found this picture, where it came from.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: If I had to guess, it probably came from Dance Magazine.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I saw a picture one day when I was younger, and it really looked like some sort of dance educator or instructor.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it looked like it was like a college dance professional professional.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: She had her like slouchy sweatshirt like hanging off the one shoulder, and she was standing next to a skeleton, and she had like the leg of the skeleton in her hand, and she was like gesturing to a group of, it looked like dancers sitting on the floor.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like they were in a studio, and you know, she was giving a presentation about, you know, like anatomy or something like that.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw that picture and I was like, that is what I want to do.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Who is she?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what it what is she doing?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that kind of started my whole life, an adventure and trying to figure out how to make that picture come to life for myself.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I started with my bachelor's in exercise science.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up dancing.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So on the opposite side of the spectrum to Katie, I grew up in more like your pre-professional conservatory uh ballet environment.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was a total bunhead from like age seven, completely went through ballet training all of my formative years, got my bachelor's in exercise science in a binary in dance because I was just still dancing so much, why not?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just kind of started looking around and figuring out how to make that picture come to life.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I thought about kinesiology as a master's or a doctorate.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I thought about an MFA.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then through my research, I came across the profession of physical therapy.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought to myself, okay, yeah, that makes sense.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: If I want to like teach people how to move, I should probably like have some type of like outside clinical experience and helping people move.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then like I got the dance part so I can like figure out how to like mesh it with the dance, and I I got it, it's cool.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I started, you know, Googling and I ended up at Long Island University Brooklyn, which had the Adams Center, Analysis of Dance and Movement Center, interned with them.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of just walked in there and I was like, hey, you guys are it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what else to say, but it's February and I'll see you in July.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw them in July.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, three years later I had my doctorate in physical therapy.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: After that, I just started like my general career and I always, you know, was on the lookout for opportunities to work more with dancers.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the traditional like outpatient setting was good and it definitely taught me or got my feet wet and really, you know, honing my regular physical therapy skills, but it didn't quite do the meshing for me in terms of working with dancers.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so, long story short, I kind of had to figure it out for myself how to work it together.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was always teaching and doing choreography on the side, and so I kind of started flipping it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I started doing like conditioning privates, like in dance studios, and word got around for that, and a couple of dancers would get injured, and I started working with them in this in the studio where I taught.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was on the sub list at a couple of other studios, and then word got around, so I started going to the sub-studios and kind of working with them.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm not sure if you know anything about the Phoenix Sandstein, but like you can't swing a bat in the air without hitting a dance studio here, like competitive or and I'm probably dating myself by saying that phrase.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, competitive, pre-professional, open studios.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: There, there's plenty of opportunities.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So as that continued to grow, I started getting calls from dance moms who had like home areas, like home studios for their dancers.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started traveling and going to dancers' homes, and that got exhausting.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that all started in 2014.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: By 2018, actually, like it was my New Year's resolution for 2018.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm just gonna look and see what happens in terms of getting a place.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I swear I like Googled.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I put Google like once in the computer and a small space popped up.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so in 2018, I had my first 200 square foot space.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Six months later, we doubled that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Nine months later, we tripled that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 2019, when COVID hit and you know, dance kind of stopped for a while.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had to figure out what to do.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually really started expanding into training dance educators, your instructors, your choreographers, your dance directors, with the knowledge or just kind of with the understanding.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, I have a post on my Instagram account that says, you know, we don't make our dancers responsible for teaching themselves ballet.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we shouldn't make them responsible for teaching themselves conditioning and injury prevention.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of started like my whole series on online courses, one-on-one mentoring, group mentoring for dance educators in terms of movement analysis and injury prevention so that they can feel empowered to spot things ahead of time in the studio before they become a problem, but then also to be able to have more confidence in what to do with their dancers.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: If something happens at the studio, there's a lot of a panic, there's a lot of not knowing what to do, not knowing if you're doing the right thing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2019, I started dance med coaching and education in addition to our clinic.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: As COVID continued to progress, I got a lot of questions about immune system health, returning to dance after COVID and things like that.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I also have a functional medicine and nutrition background.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So in January of 2020, I actually expanded again and opened Renutrition, Health and Wellness, which is our functional medicine and nutrition component to AZ Dance Med.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So over the years, what I've kind of learned is yes, I uh I completely 100% agree with Katie and I love sugar foot, by the way.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I hear about you guys all the time when dancers are going back and forth between Arizona and LA.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know they're always there.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I came from a large orthopedic background in terms of working with dancers, and that's great.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I also got to a point where there were a couple of dancers that were stuck in that orthopedic realm.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like they were they had a flexibility goal or they had a nagging injury and things just weren't getting better.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when I added that functional medicine component and started looking at other body systems and that how that holds back the musculoskeletal system, that's when things started turning a corner.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of our clients now come to us for that additional musculoskeletal and orthopedic training, but a lot of our clients are stuck.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: They've tried all the stretches, they've tried all the exercises, and there's still just something, you know, that's just not quite there.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you follow any of our blogs or podcasts or any of our other social media, you hear me talking about things like, well, did you rub your belly?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, what's going on with your water intake, or things like that.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's been what I feel like is our strongest contribution at this point because you have like wonderful places like Sugarfoot that do an excellent job addressing the orthopedic and the musculoskeletal needs of our dance community.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully what AZ Dance Medical Nutrition can now start contributing is that in addition to a more holistic approach for looking at other body systems and how that contributes to overall health, but also maximizing that dance performance.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been a wild ride that I did not quite expect, but we're loving it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_05: I love that.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_05: So inspiring, y'all.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: This is so great.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_05: You you two are the perfect guests to dive into this episode.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you for sharing your background.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: And let's talk about injury prevention.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_05: Injuries and injury prevention.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I think one of the most asked questions from dance parents, and we have a ton of dance parents that listen, is you know, what are the most common types of injuries?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, I feel like as a person who, as a dancer who has been injured over the years, I sometimes feel like I'm alone because many, you know, many of my friends have never had my ankle injury or never had my back injury.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you just don't know where to look.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that and that's me as a as an educated professional dancer asking these questions of my friends.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: But so I can't imagine being a parent who maybe did another sport growing up and their kid comes home with some injury and they're like, where do I turn?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what even is this?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is this normal?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is this rare?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So between the two of you, what are the most common types of injuries you see specifically with competitive dancers these days?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I know in our clinics with the with the young competitive dancers, I mean, a ton of ankle sprains.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: We treat a lot of ACL tears.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of them are more like overuse, not as drastic or surgical injuries, like shoulder impingements, back pain, but we also see a lot of things that don't get treated on the sooner side of things, and then they become bigger deals, like torn hip labrums that have to be repaired surgically.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And these these are happening in teenage years.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get into really severe spinal injuries, like what is it, Alexis, spondylosis, spondylolisbesis, like hardcore, hardcore spinal injuries in kids.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, listen, I'm not the medical expert here, but I see all these cases come on our schedule and I hear our PTs talking about it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, and I'm also a parent.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think the the biggest thing is for parents is like if your kid's in pain and it's not going away after a week, two weeks, you shouldn't expect it of yourself to have the answers.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to, I think the best piece of advice I can give is find, identify, and connect with the expert.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: That can help your child before the injury happens or before the injury becomes severe so that you're not reacting to something traumatic.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if you're in Arizona, you know, connecting with Alexis and getting to know her and maybe setting up a preventative assessment with her before it becomes something really severe.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: So that when if and when something traumatic does happen, if your child falls from a jump and breaks a bone, you already have this relationship with a medical professional you know and trust, and your child knows and trusts and can speak openly to.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other beautiful thing about that is Alexis is connected to all of the local surgeons, other specialist practitioners, and can help you navigate this healthcare industry that is like, huh?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, most of us don't even begin to look for a doctor until we've got some hardcore symptoms, right?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you can't always stay ahead of it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have a child who's a competitive dancer, they're going to get injured at some point.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, there's a lot of things you can do to reduce the risk of that happening, but it's gonna happen at some point.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, like it costs nothing but time to try and find those people.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times they are business owners, they're small business owners in your area, and they're probably very eager to connect with you and your dance studio.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyhow, I kind of went off on a tangent there, but we love tangents.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: That was great.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you we do the point is we see a range of, you know, not so serious to extremely serious.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the sooner you address things, the better.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're you're most likely to address them sooner than later if you have an established relationship with an expert.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Ditto.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: That was like literally the exact I would have given the exact same response, like from beginning to end.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Alexis, I'm I'm curious to know, like with some of those injuries that Katie mentioned, how do you feel like that some of those more common ones are happening in the studio?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_05: Is it like I know Katie mentioned a lot of them might be overuse, but do you have any examples of how some of these might happen to these dancers?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give the I'll use the example of ankle sprains because that that was gonna be like the number one if I had to pick a most common injury.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, the second would have been kind of like a back sprain, back pain uh type of symptom.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Ankle sprains happen for a lot of reasons, but I definitely see a lot of dancers starting off the new year or starting off the new like comp season who have improved or increased either their level of training or they've ascended to a higher level of training.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So they were in like level, you know, diamonds, you know, in May, and then they progressed to, I don't know, titanium for August, or you you know what I mean.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, increasing either training hours or technical demands that a lot of time corresponds to more at, like I said, more hours, different demands of training, different uses of uh how they use their body.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of opens the door for a little bit of injury.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is actually like external environment or uh environment outside of the studio.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that's very common in the Phoenix metro area is that there's actually like super rare blew my mind when I got here.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually a lot of dance programs in the public school sector.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but if you can imagine, they don't always have like the most conducive dance environment.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not all the time.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times, for example, these like ankle sprains and other like uh overuse injuries are coming from the change of environment from like high school gym environment and training for, you know, from 1 to 3:30 in the afternoon, and then they transition to at their studio from 4 to 9 p.m.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's that going back and forth.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So environmentally, again, as they grow in their ages, like starting that type of school training dance where they didn't do it in like elementary or middle, but they're starting it in high school, that adds extra hours.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another perspective of overuse that causes a lot of ankle sprains that we were talking about in the example.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: If I put on my functional medicine cap for just a second, the number one factor that corresponds to ankle sprain in my adolescent competitive dancer are daggone braces.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, you mean braces like on your mouth braces?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Dental braces, yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please expound upon the braces?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: When yeah, brace braces, I swear.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I listened to your podcast this morning, actually, Alexis, about uh foot injuries.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, did I talk about bracing?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: The truth about foot, it was so good, and I was hoping you would bring this up.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what happens, and this is how I explain it to the dancers.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, so you guys know about core muscles, and you know that your core muscles are like connected to your spine, and they're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, everybody knows that part.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, and you know, like your neck is the top of your spine, yeah, it's like connected, and they're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how many times do we think about our neck when we're talking about core stability?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Never, not a lot.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I usually throw in the joke, like, you know, some like, well, I do, so that's why you're here.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so that concept of core stability, and we call it the top core, races changes muscle tension in the jaw and that upper cervical spine area.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So what happens, and we in like even Katie, I'm sure you know about like the craniosacral or like the head-tail connection.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: So when they go and get those beautiful little suckers, you know, slapped on their teeth, and when they go and get them adjusted, sometimes that trickles down and causes a change in tension or muscle performance in the lower spine, and then that trickles down and con and contributes to some type of instability or opens the door for a little bit of funky, like lower extremity type of movement, and then they go and do a peer wet, or then they go, you know, they're transitioning from school dance to after school dance.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have a handful of clients now whose God bless their moms, they schedule follow-up sessions after their orthodontic appointments.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, because they often need that little musculoskeletal tune-up, that little restabilization between hips and upper core.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah, like changes in environment, changes in in other systems or other parts of the body, and yeah, just changes in their technical demand.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I had braces twice, so I'm gonna blame all of my foot problems on the braces.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's it's even on our intake.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh on our intake, it says, Have you had braces or teeth pulled?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that is why, because interesting.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's crazy.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is so I wow, learn something new.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's it's just all connected.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's as as the medical profession just grows and evolves, and so does the dance world.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's just so much more information out there that like it's not just the one thing.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's the one thing that's connected to the other thing that's connected to the other thing, and it all really does matter.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the difficult part of all of that is how do we how do we address all of it in a timely, functional, economical way that's also still interesting and fun to do.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's just there's a lot going on.
• 29:54
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• 30:37
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• 30:49
  SPEAKER_05: I'm really happy that you mentioned like the environment of where you're dancing, and this is something that I kind of wanted to bring up because I feel like this could be an issue in competitive studios, not all, but I've personally witnessed it, and and I'm speaking about the safety of the floor that you're dancing on.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_05: I I don't I don't know if every studio in the country has sprung floors, and I can't tell you how important that is for a dancer to be dancing on a safe surface.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think that my teachers ever told us that they were sprung floors.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_05: Like we just go to dance, we dance on the Marley floors, and that's what we do, you know?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't think that that the studios are telling everybody, yeah, our state of state of the art facility has this and this and this, maybe to the parents, but the kids don't know any different.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_05: And there was a time, and I've done I mean multiple times, but even this summer, there was a studio, and my back was killing me when I was teaching.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_05: And my back always kills me, but it was killing me more this time.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_05: And then I finally started feeling the floor.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_05: One half of the floor was sprung, one half of the floor was concrete.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh no.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_05: And these kids dance on this floor every single day.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_05: And I was there for one day teaching and was already feeling pain.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_05: My joints were aching, my knees were aching, my back flared up, and I couldn't believe it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, do you guys realize that you're dancing on concrete every day?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_05: And they're like, Well, yeah, I mean, that's just that's just what it is.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_05: But it's like, no, no, no, we have to make sure that we are giving like parents are paying a lot of money to send you to dance, and if the floor is unsafe, you don't realize how much damage you're doing to your body down the road, the wear and tear.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe again, that's part of injury prevention is making sure that we're in a safe environment because it's going to lead to injury.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_05: It's going to.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I think kids also think they're super invincible.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I can do knee drops, I can do head spins.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_05: Like, every time a kid does a head spin at a competition, I am terrified for their neck.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_05: They're about to snap their neck in half if it's done incorrectly.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, just things like that.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_05: Are we practicing with mats?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_05: Are we doing this safely?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like that when we get into a competitive environment like that, too, kids are just gonna like, you know, the adrenaline's going, they're just gonna do whatever they want.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_05: But again, I think that it's important.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_05: So that I just wanted to throw that out there because I didn't really understand that dancing on concrete is not a good idea until I got older and my joints are really mad at me.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Do you have anything?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: Y'all have anything to add to that?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think that there's there might be studios out there that are like, uh-oh, gotta fix some of our studio spaces right now.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's totally true.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think you just always have to uh all of this is about playing the long game and not the short game, right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a parent, what's the long game for your child?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how many of them actually even want to work professionally?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like the the tiniest fraction of a percent, really.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so whether they want to be a professional dancer or not, like what's the what risk is worth it, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so if your kid like can't be active for the rest of their life to the extent they want to, because they risked too much physically in competition dance as a kid, not worth it, right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: As a business owner, maybe you know it costs a lot of money to put in sprung floors.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, that's a big deal.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: But long game, you know, is it worth the risk of a bunch of kids getting hurt?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so right.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and even even the business owner as the teacher themselves, you know, it's like they're they're on that floor more than anybody, more than any of the kids, more than any of the nobody's just like the business owner who's teaching, who's also a teacher, like clone knees.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_05: If it was if it was me, I would quit.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: I would be like, Oh, you know sprung floors.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Shortcuts, quick fixes, they're always too good to be true, you know.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, like whether we're talking about sprung floors, you know, trying to avoid the expense there, or whether we're talking about shortcuts to certain dance tricks and trying to skip ahead and do stuff your body's not ready for, and then you end up hurt.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's just long game, short game.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Make the right choice, friends.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Make the right choice.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Choices, yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just do it.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta do it.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's you gotta put in the work.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think somebody earlier, I think it was maybe it was Katie, mentioned when you're when you're working on PT stuff and you have to retrain your body to learn how to do something correctly.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for y'all to speak a little bit to that and like what kinds of things, like for me personally, I have I've had two ankle surgeries, and I'm in PT for one right now.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And a thing that I have is flat feet, and I have a really hard time doming, have a really hard time lifting that arch.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been told, you know, in ballet, lift your arches, lift your arches, lift your arches.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I just it it's hard, it hurt, it physically hurts.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it hurts my joints, hurts my bones.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things that I have found as an adult.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody mentioned that to me early on.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So my whole life, I'm walking around with my ankles pronating in and my feet flat on the floor, and therefore two ankle surgeries, right?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Other factors or whatever.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: But as I'm in PT with a dance specialist here in New York, it is the hardest thing in the world to retrain an adult learned body to do something differently, even though it's better for you.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get around that?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And are there certain like injuries that you have seen with people that that are a little more difficult to try to fix, I guess, through PT?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna be mad at me if I say it may not be as hard as you think it might be?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, please, because I wish it wasn't.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: I wish that was true.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I maybe you can convince me.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: So he here's the thing, and and I'm gonna talk a little bit more conceptually, but honestly, kind of what you're what you're speaking to is kind of the foundation of where we build our success with our clients.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: We have a saying at our clinic, and it's even posted in the studio.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: We like the front of our clinic is is kind of like a studio setting.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: It has like an open floor and practice space that is minimally sprung, by the way.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, we can't, we don't have the budget to do like a full sprung, but it's it's moderately sprung.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the poster in there says the body never hesitates to heal when you present it with the right solution.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I said it one day and I was like, ooh, that sounds good.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's a poster.
• 37:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's honestly like it's become like our clinic motto.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And even with like our lead performance coach here, her name's Lisa, like I hear her saying it to our clients, and we we're talking about it like every day.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: It reminds us every day to keep looking and making sure that we are considering and covering all our bases.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And again, for for a lot of work with our clients, it means looking at those other systems.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Even as gosh, maybe like a week before Christmas, I had a client with an issue, and we had kind of been working like just pulling back those layers of dysfunction, stabilizing here, looking at other body systems.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it and we were getting close, and she was getting a little bit better.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we're always reading, we're always researching here.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And one day I just found one thing, and I was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like this could be the missing missing puzzle piece.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: It totally makes sense.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we hadn't really looked into it before.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: I switched up her regimen a little bit on a Friday, and Sunday she texted me and was like, it's gone, it's better.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I feel great.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I woke up, it's amazing.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And even to this day, and I'm like, dang it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Your body never hesitates to heal when you present it with a like.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, like on a daily basis, I'm constantly reminding myself of that.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: So when I'm working with a client here and we're we're feeling a little stuck, that just makes me more determined to make sure that I'm looking at everything that I can possibly think of outside of the realm, you know, of like the musculoskeletal system.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's always like my primary, and I'm always like, you know, going back and checking that, but I'm also like dotting my I's and crossing my T's and asking those other symptom questions.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: So You should always be progressing, right?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if you were, it's like the beating a dead horse thing.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like if something's not working, it's not working a dead horse.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay that it's not working.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: So if one, if you're just trying to do the same exercise over and over, you know, you need to maybe try something different to cue that muscle to contract, you know.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of time, like we see similar things in our clinics, even with different practitioners.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if a therapist has had a couple sessions and the patient hasn't progressed, they'll bring one of the other DPTs over, or maybe have one of our uh pelvic floor specialists DPTs.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: If a dancer has back pain, we actually saw this really recently with a dancer who had back pain and they were getting a little better, you know, treating it traditionally.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: But he was like, man, you should this should be better by now.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the pelvic floor specialists did an exam and there was some hypertonic muscle in the pelvic floor area and like next day, you know, similar story.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was like bam, done.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it and it's always gonna each case is gonna be different.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: But the point is, I think that if things aren't moving forward, we got to try our approach.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100% agree.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so nice to hear, because we hear something similar with some of our other topics that as a professional, whether that's being a physical therapist or a dance teacher or a judge or whatever else you do, if if something's not working, drop the ego, ask somebody else, you know?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's always the key is like, don't be afraid to ask for help.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be afraid, even as a patient, if you're noticing something's not working, and you know, you have sat back and said, I've done everything I can, I've done everything they've asked me to, and be really honest because last time around, after my ankle surgery, I will be honest.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I did not follow up on my personal PT regimen at home between sessions.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: This time I'm doing it and I do feel the difference.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: But like sit back and be honest with yourself and say, have I really done what they've asked me to do?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I just experiencing the same situation because I'm not putting my two cents in, or not my, you know, part of all of it.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_05: So that's how I felt with my back injury.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_05: I've I've had a back injury m pretty much my entire career, I would say.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_05: And that was my first major injury.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_05: I got technically I it started when I was on the West Side Story Tour in 2012, and I just couldn't stand up from sitting down.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_05: I was in excruciating pain in my back.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_05: Never had an injury in my whole time training as a competitive dancer when I was young.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_05: You know, the little ones here and there, I sprained my ankle and whatever.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_05: But this was like something serious, you know?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know what to do.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know how to handle it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_05: And even my tour didn't know how to handle it.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_05: They just brushed it off and said I was fine.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_05: But come to find out I had a stress fracture in my back, and now I have scar tissue in my back because I didn't treat it right at the time of the injury and didn't get the treatment that I needed.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_05: And to this day, I've been dealing with back pain, and I went to tons of different PTs.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_05: Tons.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_05: I went to I did everything.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_05: I did acupuncture, I did all m muscle massage, I did all the things chiropractic, and nothing was fixing it.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_05: And over the pandemic, I decided to finally put the time in because I was the same.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, PT isn't working.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, PT is for normal people, and that's what is challenging, I think, as a dancer.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: As a dancer, is finding a PT who understands what your body needs to do.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've been to PT before for Joe Schmo, who walks down the street and that's all he does in his life ever.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the PT's like, point and flex your foot.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: That should be fine.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, no, you don't understand what I need to do with my body.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, over here, me, you know, with a dance degree and you know, years of training, I'm like, I I get that you also have years of training in what you do, but maybe you don't work with people like me.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely was guilty of like brushing it off.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Not even, you know, not even taking it seriously because I didn't think they understood what I needed to do.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, no offense to all the regular non-dance specialist PTs out there, but it always made me laugh every time I'd go to a PT and they'd be amazed at how flexible I was.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was at your worst, too.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_05: Like I haven't danced in six months.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they just like put your leg up and it keeps going, and they're like, whoa.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, I told you I'm a dancer.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like do you not know what that means?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: But the other thing, the other thing about that though, is like, even if your therapist isn't a dancer, like if they're a good therapist and cares about getting their patient to meet their goals, they should listen.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: So like that's Not being a therapist, being a dancer isn't always a guarantee.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like to me, it's more important that they care to get their patient to their goal.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if you care to get their patient to their goal, any good physical therapist should be able to get them there.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that to encourage, you know, you might live somewhere where you're like, oh, we don't have a dance specialist PT.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's probably a great sports PT in your area.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if they're worth their two cents and they listen and they, you know, they're not just going to throw in the towel, they should be capable of getting you there.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: But it is, it's work for the patient and it's work for the therapist.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they both have to meet each other.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love you, Katie.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I do, because she, Katie, is speaking the truth.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you guys are listening, friends, she is speaking the truth because as a lot of people, and it's funny, I have to be like really careful about like how I talk about it, but I completely agree, Katie.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: There is a certain point to a very certain extent that at the end of the day, movement is movement.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are listening to your client or listening to your patient, and you are applying your skills that you've been trained in, and you are not boxing yourself in to what everybody, you know, every other person looks like.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're not, you know, getting tunnel vision for a certain expectation or an outcome, there are a large number of therapists who may not have, you know, track clock the numbers of actually working with dancers, but do have a good foundational knowledge in terms of movement analysis.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, that can bring just as much success.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I'm training and when I'm mentoring other clinicians, the biggest thing that I actually focus on is dance culture.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So vocabulary, rapport, getting them to understand like the mindset of the dancer.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I usually those those dance, those clinicians who are coming to me for mentoring, they are the ones, you know, not in that tunnel vision, thinking outside of the box.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: They are looking at movement and they aren't necessarily completely blown away when, yeah, your foot touches your face in a straight leg raise test.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, you know, they might not see it every day, but it doesn't throw them off so much because yeah, I I a hundred percent agree with Katie.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, a lot of times movement is still movement.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot can still be done, even if you don't have somebody who has, you know, dance med pro certification or, you know, sugar foot training, because I know you do like training for educators and clinicians as well.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there are a lot of good clinicians out there.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: There really are.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and again, it's kind of like coming back to a bigger concept of like, if somebody, if you're if you're saying it still hurts or you're not where you want to be, no one should just say, Well, you look good to me.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: If they or you know, if they say, I don't think I can do anything else for you, okay, well, can I look up who to refer you to?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Can I look up somewhere else for you to get another opinion?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that's always a problem if if a dancer is saying they're in pain or haven't reached their goal, and the provider or the parent or the dance teacher just says, Ah, sorry.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I think earlier, Courtney, you said, like, you know, these young dancers, when you're talking about environmental stuff, they just want to keep going, right?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna just keep dancing and and that is how these kids are.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if they are in pain, red flag.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like it takes a young kid shouldn't be in pain.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if they're in enough pain to say something about it, it should be taken seriously.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree, especially because I totally agree with you because I can't tell you how many times I've worked with dancers in studio or when I'm teaching at conventions who have straight up told me that they have an injury, but they're just they're gonna keep dancing and they're gonna push through it.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like, and when I was younger and when I was like a a younger educator and and I hadn't dealt with injuries myself, I was just like, okay, yeah, whatever, you know.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm thinking, like, yeah, if if your d mom says it's okay or if doctor approved it, which who knows if that's actually true.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_05: But now when kids tell me that, I'm like, are you sure?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_05: Because you're going to you're not going to get better if you just keep dancing on this pain that you're dealing with.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_05: But oh, but I have to, I have my group routine later tonight, and I have my solo.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, okay, we all have to take a step back and look at the longevity here because we think we can just do it all.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like, oh, power through the pain.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_05: And we don't realize how much damage we're causing down the road because we powered through our pain for for the team tonight.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_05: When it was actually really serious, and I think that that's that's the hard struggle for because a lot I mean, I know, and I don't know if I'm speaking for everybody, but I know that when I would come home with a complaint, it would just be shewed away by mom.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you're fine.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_05: Come no, we're not I'm not taking you the doctor for that.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_05: Are you kidding me?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_05: That sounds like Robin.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_05: So, and I feel like, you know, there might be a lot of parents listening that feel the same way.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes it's hard, like you said, Katie, if a kid is saying, Hey, this is really bothering me, mom, like some kids have different pain tolerance than others.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_05: So sometimes it's hard to, you know, are they just whining and and you know, complaining, or is it actually serious?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the and the dance teacher or studio owner can really help set the precedent for how you know how the community responds to injury or reporting of pain, you know, by by starting the season and saying, hey, if your kid, let's have an open dialogue.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna tell you if your kid is hurt, you tell me if the kid is hurt.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if the if the parents and the dance teachers and studio owners are working together to establish that the team doctors, then even better.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love when schools have, you know, like preseason injury screens.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_05: That's great.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because then the dance school has established relationships with local experts so that you know everyone already knows these people they can contact when the injuries happen.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at any other youth athletics, like this is very normal.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: Most other youth athletics have to have pre-season physicals.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: They, you know, this is very normal.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just something that's because dance studios are all operating as independent small businesses, there's no governing organization to, you know, regulate this stuff.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: But again, going back to long game big picture things, I think there's a lot of value for the business owner, for the studio owner to prioritize health.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just on my soapbox all morning.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_05: I love the idea of the screening.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_05: I think that I know.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's I mean, I just remember cheerleading growing up.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: You had to go to the doctor.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: You had to get the physical, you had to present the form that said, I am okay to do this.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you couldn't do it.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that's a brilliant idea.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_05: Shocked that it's not required for like dance studio insurance policies.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not required, but it it is something that like we talk about around like the July, August.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like we usually start talking about that.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: We do our pre-screens and our point readiness assessments and things like that.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because yes, the importance of just having a snapshot.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool actually, because we get to be that like non-biased third party.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of studios love that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we give them a report of like how their dancer did, and then we also give them like, you know, a start-off like conditioning program based on like what the assessment was.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we even tell the parent or we tell the dancer, like, hey, this does not guarantee that you make, you know, diamond elite competition team.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: This does not guarantee that you're going on point.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: What it does do is give you and your teacher valuable feedback on what your body's looking like today.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that as you move forward, you have some things to look at and to consider.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they take that information and they use it for what, you know, for what they like to use it for.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: And studio owners like it because it does kind of give them a little bit of support if they feel that somebody isn't technically ready, but they're feeling that pressure to progress, you know, McKinsey, because she's might be the only one in the group who might not, but it's not safe sometimes working with somebody like Katie or I or working with our clinics, give them that type of support.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I don't know McKinse personally.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not her teacher.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen her.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: She came into my office and she had this assessment.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: And these, this is what I found, and this is what you may want to consider.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times that that that's a great benefit for the local dance community, knowing that somebody has your back from a safety perspective that also isn't so personally invested in the actual like student teacher group dynamic in the competitive studio.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because we all know that's that is fraught sometimes.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hard.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is it's hard.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel for dance studio owners and I feel for instructors because like I used to be an instructor.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess you never stopped being an instructor, but like, you know, we I think all four of us kind of have that understanding of that part of our culture.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: It it exists and it, you know, it's starting to shift a little bit, but it it exists.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think having points of contact in your community that can be that kind of like third party, less biased, but still very supportive and very integral in your dancers' training and health, I think it's great.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: And which with a very professional background, you know, it's not just, you know, because plenty of dance teachers don't have degrees, and that's perfectly fine.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, that having a medical person behind the statement of your child is not ready for point, it that stop, period, the end, you know, even even if the dance teacher says, okay, maybe this is fine, or no, she's not ready, but here's the medical professional's opinion.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you really gonna say no to that?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are you really gonna fight with that?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it may also help, you know, from that perspective too, for studio owners to, like you said, get some get some support, get some backup.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_05: So as we kind of round out this discussion, I would love to hear any advice that you may have for some of the dancers out there.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_05: So we have a lot of different types of listeners.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_05: We have uh based off of one of our reviews from earlier, we have dancers listening to our episodes with their dance parents, usually on the way to dance, we've heard.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_05: We have a ton of dance parents listening, as well as studio owners and professionals and teachers.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_05: So this one's for the dancers.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh what type of advice do you have for dancers when they experience their first injury or maybe a chronic recurring injury?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_05: What are the best uh things to do?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_05: What are the steps?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_05: Do you have any advice as far as like downtime or conditioning or things like that that can help them navigate?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because it's scary when you get your first injury, you don't know how long you're gonna be out.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_05: You don't want to let your team down.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_05: So, what is your best way to navigate that for young dancers?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Three things come to mind immediately for me say something, ask for help, rub your belly.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the three.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh if you're listening to this podcast, you now have two points of contact that both have excellent local and both of us have excellent resources to at least get you started on all of our social media.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know Sugarfoot, like and Moji, their social media gives great examples of exercises and videos just to at least let you know that the resource is available to you.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're listening to this podcast, you at least have two resources that you can reach out to for assistance.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're listening to this podcast and you're a dancer, I'm a dance teacher, and I'm gonna put on my dance teacher chat for a second.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you can navigate TikTok, you can navigate sending us a message.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Say something asking for help.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't be shy and asking for help.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Advocate for yourself.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is a great dance skill, it's a great life skill.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: A performer or not.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you need help, if you need support, if something's bothering you, say something and don't stop asking for help until you get the help that you need.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third thing, the core is where a lot of things start.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: So a good belly rub usually never hurts anybody.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of dancers do see a lot of exercises and resources that they very easily go to to try to help remedy their situations uh and their various symptoms.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: They don't always put, you know, the puzzle pieces together.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, Leslie, uh, the body is a hundred percent connected.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so your core is not only your muscular core, but it's there for your digestive health, it's there for a little bit of like uh respiratory health, it's there for your lymphatic system, which is your fluid flow and water-based system.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it is kind of true that that cliche about the body is two-thirds water.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of stuff gets stuck in the lower belly and the top of the hips area.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, my buck, you can't go wrong with a little belly rub and see how that does.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't pooped, goodness, give us a call.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: No joke.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about it very frankly here.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: The number one thing that we see holding back flexibility when stretching and musculoskeletal stuff doesn't work is constipation.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, friends, make if you haven't pooped, call me.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably holding back your split.
• 57:40
  unknown: Oh gosh.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: As if just not pooping isn't uncomfortable enough.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Also holding back your left split, friend.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: My feedback for you know, the dancers who are listening is I'm gonna go back to more of my just competitive professional dancer background and say, trust your body, listen to your body, and really celebrate the capacity of your body.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, yes, if you're in pain, if something doesn't feel right, speak up, but also embrace what feels good to your body.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: All of our bodies are different, they are all capable of different physical things.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, they are capable of learning to do certain physical things, but if we all embrace the way our bodies are meant to move and really embrace our individual artistry, I think a lot of physical pain can be more avoided.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's kind of like that that idea of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you're like, you know what?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just don't, my hip just doesn't feel good in this position.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: Don't go all the way to that position.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, see, don't if something doesn't feel good, listen.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: And don't think that continuing to drill it in the painful way is going to get you there.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: It might, but it won't be worth it because it'll probably cause some real harm.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if we maybe your hip doesn't want to go there, but maybe you have like the most like badass street style.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: So celebrate that and do like move the way your body wants to move and that it feels good.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: That was a big thing for me.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was never a super flexible dancer, but I was strong and powerful and I had great style.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I very much could have gone down a path of you know forcing flexibility.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think I got as much out of myself as I could safely, but I learned to celebrate the things I was good at and the things that my body felt good doing.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: Where yeah, maybe I could have like continued doing point work into adulthood, but like that didn't feel great to me.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like contemporary modern movement felt great to me.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then I met Mia Michaels and she was like, I love how strong you are.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then for 10 years, I worked with her on every project she did because she helped me recognize what I was great at.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then when she pointed it out, I was like, yeah, I am good at that, and it feels amazing.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, I think if we just kind of each reflect on what, if something doesn't feel good in our bodies, unless you're like, this is my calling in life and I have to do it, okay, that's something different.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: But if it doesn't feel great in your body, maybe that's not how you should make your body move.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode all about injury prevention.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_05: We'd like to give a huge shout out to our very special guests, Alexis and Katie, for joining us.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_05: Be sure to follow them and check out their businesses on Instagram.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_05: You can follow Katie's company at SugarFoot underscore therapy on Instagram, and learn more at their website, sugarfoottherapy.com.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_05: You can follow Alexis's company at azdancemed on Instagram, and learn more about azdance medicine specialists on their website at azdancemed.com.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow Mickey Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_05: Be sure to check out IBA Affiliated Competition, Decad Dance Competition.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_05: Defit Dance drives for excellence in the world of dance competition.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_05: They're committed to providing the most professional experience for a wide range of competitors in a safe and fair environment, ensuring that each Decad event provides high levels of education and the opportunity for growth in every dancer.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_05: With four specialized judges, a unique custom-built scoring system, live critiques for soloists, amazing awards, and so much more, we do not want to miss their awesome events.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_05: With tour dates up and down the East Coast in their 2022 season, I hope you will come experience the DECA difference.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_05: Visit their website now at Deccadance Competition.com to learn more.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: The second half of season three is underway, and we have some excellent episodes coming up.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned for Stage Presence, a day in the life of a professional dancer in winning versus losing.