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WoTS Tangents compilation: LOC & COS · WoT Spoilers

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hello everyone, welcome to Tangents.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: We've got some guests to make absolute chaos here today.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be.
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: Fun feelingly chaotic, so hold on your books.
• 0:32
  Speaker 5: Yes, I can't wait.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: By Tarvallan after Dark, which is of course Jess Recappa
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: and Nabless and Seth and I are popping out of
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: our brief hiatus for a minute to record before we
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: go back into Hibernational spoiler Coon and Yeah, we're here
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: to talk about a crown of Tangents.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: That is what we do between books, is do Tangents.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: But we do probably have to spend a couple of
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: minutes talking about the fact that the show is happening.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I saw some ads or whatever.
• 1:00
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 1:00
  Speaker 7: Actually you heard about something I've heard about the show.
• 1:03
  Speaker 7: I can't wait till the trailer drops.
• 1:05
  Speaker 8: Is there a new season of like RuPaul's Drag Race
• 1:08
  Speaker 8: or something out? Is that what you guys are talking.
• 1:09
  Speaker 7: About anyway, So let's just stick with kind of Swords.
• 1:13
  Speaker 7: That's really interesting things happened, Yeah, over the last year,
• 1:17
  Speaker 7: so that's really it.
• 1:19
  Speaker 9: I was gonna say, if names knows about drag Race,
• 1:21
  Speaker 9: we've been wasting conversations, but I don't think it is.
• 1:25
  Speaker 8: Look, I've watched half a seasons.
• 1:27
  Speaker 9: Okay, so okay, we're going to talk about this on
• 1:29
  Speaker 9: our next pod because what the hell?
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, okay, Tangents, credit Tangents, Yes, crowds for it,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: you got it? Oh yeah, so much chaos.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I kind of actually was going to bring
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: a little more order to this than prior Tangent episodes,
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: which is to actually work through the major story beats
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: at the book rather than literally just talking about anything
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: for two hours like we have prior. I'm sure we'll
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: be all over this because that's what we do.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Kindo.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Swords Book seven, Bodybuilder Rand on the darylka Sweet cover
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: as you can see behind Seth. Because this is this
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: is the shadow Logoth book. Well, one of the shadow
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Low Goth books was like three books of shadow Low
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Goth right after Jami as well, that's that's where this
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: one starts, right right after Jamer as well, as we
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: kind of get to see it again, we get to
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: see it from the Shadows perspective. We see like Rand's
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: immediate like mental explosion in the aftermath of that, and
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: then of course he immediately goes to Kyrie and deposes
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: col of air and all of all of that happens.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: That's like how the book opens.
• 2:31
  Speaker 7: And as I call it, it's somewhat the Book of
• 2:32
  Speaker 7: bad Touch, right, there's just a lot of people being
• 2:36
  Speaker 7: touched in ways or thinking they're touching in ways that
• 2:38
  Speaker 7: are not okay. There's not a lot OF's. There's a
• 2:43
  Speaker 7: lot of exploration of different types of consent in this
• 2:46
  Speaker 7: book from start to finish. Whether it's Thailand, so this
• 2:50
  Speaker 7: is Thailand, Yeah, this is Rand being convinced that he
• 2:54
  Speaker 7: raped him.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: In Yeah, it's the mind traft.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: The mind trafts.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Well, let's not way.
• 3:00
  Speaker 9: We can't pretend mind traft's not awesome, so let's not
• 3:04
  Speaker 9: believe that and all because mind traft's awesome, So let's
• 3:08
  Speaker 9: let's disclude that.
• 3:09
  Speaker 7: But I hear what's being said, Well, the fay that
• 3:13
  Speaker 7: goes along with the mind traft is a bit of
• 3:15
  Speaker 7: a problem. And then you've got more games in all
• 3:17
  Speaker 7: them as well. Yeah, there's just a lot of scenes
• 3:20
  Speaker 7: where people are dealing with consent, and so it's just
• 3:23
  Speaker 7: one of the reasons I bring it up is because
• 3:25
  Speaker 7: that's one of the topics and themes of The conversation
• 3:28
  Speaker 7: that we kept having over and over and over again
• 3:30
  Speaker 7: during the course of this book is just how often
• 3:32
  Speaker 7: consent came up, whether it's enthusiastic consent for men that
• 3:36
  Speaker 7: was mistaken or complete non consent from Matt that was
• 3:40
  Speaker 7: also mistaken.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't think that was mistaken. She knew exactly
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: what she was doing.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: But you know, sure, I mean not.
• 3:48
  Speaker 8: To get into that subject because it's always one that
• 3:50
  Speaker 8: I mean, I think we probably all agree on. But
• 3:52
  Speaker 8: like I think Robert Jordan's mindset in writing that is
• 3:55
  Speaker 8: that that was cultural and just kind of tongue in cheek,
• 3:58
  Speaker 8: and I don't think it came across that so.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: Well, my understanding is that, and I think that Harriet
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: confirmed this that the whole plot line was written the
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: way that it was because they wanted to draw attention
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: to the fact that sexual assault can happen to men,
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: and I thought they thought that the best way to
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: do that would be by making it funny. And I
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: respect the fact that they were trying. What they were
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: trying to do with the execution.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Was bad aged very fact.
• 4:28
  Speaker 8: I mean, is that rewriting the past? If Harriet said that, I.
• 4:31
  Speaker 9: Read something that said Robert Jordan's intention was to draw
• 4:36
  Speaker 9: attention to the fact that this doesn't just happen to women.
• 4:39
  Speaker 9: And I will be frank with everyone. It made me
• 4:42
  Speaker 9: angry because I was like, that is an excuse for
• 4:46
  Speaker 9: a poorly written piece that you know was not sensitive
• 4:52
  Speaker 9: to people who have been through this, and I for me,
• 4:56
  Speaker 9: it was like you said that because you needed to
• 5:00
  Speaker 9: say something. That is if you read it, clearly not
• 5:03
  Speaker 9: how it's written. People are laughing at Matt, and it's
• 5:07
  Speaker 9: clearly not intended to draw attention to the fact that
• 5:11
  Speaker 9: this is such a hard thing for men to That
• 5:13
  Speaker 9: is not how it's written. So I mean, you know,
• 5:16
  Speaker 9: not to dive into all of this Crown of Tangents,
• 5:18
  Speaker 9: but for this particular issue, I have heard a lot
• 5:24
  Speaker 9: of people say on the show they're really hoping.
• 5:27
  Speaker 7: That this gets fixed. And for me personally, I'm like, just.
• 5:31
  Speaker 8: Cut it, just cut it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 9: We don't need it anyway because we're Crown of Tangents.
• 5:36
  Speaker 9: So I feel like I can go with this a little.
• 5:38
  Speaker 9: But that's how I feel because I have heard the argument.
• 5:41
  Speaker 9: Just like you said, I read I think the same
• 5:43
  Speaker 9: piece that says the intention was to show that this
• 5:48
  Speaker 9: can happen to men, And I'm like, well, then why
• 5:51
  Speaker 9: is it written the way it's written where people are
• 5:53
  Speaker 9: laughing at it?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't buy it. I don't buy it.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: But at this point I have considered the possibility that
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: I was like a potentially an excuse that came after
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: the fact.
• 6:03
  Speaker 7: Of course, I know, I know that's not what you're saying.
• 6:06
  Speaker 9: I just like, for me when I think, i'd say,
• 6:08
  Speaker 9: because I think I read the same thing you read
• 6:10
  Speaker 9: where it's like the intention was, you know, to show
• 6:14
  Speaker 9: and I was like, well, that's not what you did,
• 6:16
  Speaker 9: so I I when reading that, I felt upset.
• 6:20
  Speaker 8: The go ahead, I'm sorry, I'd say.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, like Seth and I've discovered
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: this book is full of discussion.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Of bad touch. It's like, how could you not know?
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm agreeing, Like it does feel like ret conning
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: the rationale. Like you, there's a lot of assault and
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: bad touch in this book. You know what that is.
• 6:38
  Speaker 8: Okay, I don't actually believe what I'm about to say,
• 6:40
  Speaker 8: but if you know me, this is what I do.
• 6:42
  Speaker 8: I'm Devil's navigating. Okay. Does it not demonstrate how people
• 6:46
  Speaker 8: aren't believed when they say that they've been. It's like,
• 6:49
  Speaker 8: like Mattie's laughed at Like, is that not indicative of
• 6:52
  Speaker 8: actually what happens?
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I okay, I I I'm just saying, you know what
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: you're saying.
• 6:58
  Speaker 9: But my argument is no, because of how people respond,
• 7:04
  Speaker 9: because there is no character who gives evene of maybe
• 7:10
  Speaker 9: this isn't the right way to act. It is just
• 7:14
  Speaker 9: them laughing at him because as far as the books go,
• 7:18
  Speaker 9: it serves him right.
• 7:19
  Speaker 7: That's what it feels like in the books, that's what
• 7:21
  Speaker 7: they're written.
• 7:22
  Speaker 9: I mean, it feels like, oh, everyone's laughing because Matt's
• 7:26
  Speaker 9: getting a taste of his own medicine.
• 7:27
  Speaker 7: When it's like, that is not what is going on.
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: Here and go secually assaulting people.
• 7:34
  Speaker 9: Well, that's what I'm saying though, is like I I
• 7:37
  Speaker 9: they laugh at him like it is and I'm like,
• 7:40
  Speaker 9: that's not the same that. I mean, we're getting into
• 7:43
  Speaker 9: conversation and sexual assault. I mean, hey, crowd of tangents
• 7:46
  Speaker 9: again right off the bat. But for me, this particular
• 7:50
  Speaker 9: issue is like there is a canon excuse that says
• 7:55
  Speaker 9: we did it this way because we didn't want We
• 7:58
  Speaker 9: wanted people to realize that men go through this too.
• 8:01
  Speaker 9: And when I read the books. I do not buy that.
• 8:04
  Speaker 9: That's what I'm saying.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: I agree with Brian as far as what Nab said,
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: like if it were supposed to be illustrating the fact
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: that this happens to men, there would have been somebody
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: who would have responded to him with empathy and told
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: him what this actually was, because he obviously didn't know.
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: Because if you.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: Want the audience to respond in such a way saying,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: oh shit, this happens to men, Like the first time
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: that I read it, I did not consider it to
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: be assault. It didn't even occur to me, never even
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: occurred to me. And if there had been an emphathy,
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: like somebody showing him empathy and pointing out what it
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: was that happened to help him with this confusion, that
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: would have turned the light bulb on.
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: So you know, I don't buy.
• 8:43
  Speaker 8: I'm not sure I agree with that.
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: You don't agree with that, or do you not agree
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: with it?
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: On point of like, no, I really I'm not sure.
• 8:49
  Speaker 8: Exercise not as a thought exercise, because I don't think
• 8:53
  Speaker 8: in situations of like this that there's always a somebody
• 8:58
  Speaker 8: getting being empathetic, because I I think they're not empathetic
• 9:01
  Speaker 8: to Matt because of a perception of him being this rogue. Now,
• 9:04
  Speaker 8: where I think they could have written it differently if
• 9:07
  Speaker 8: they wanted to keep it where nobody believed him, is
• 9:09
  Speaker 8: that the impact was felt or it was stated somewhere else, right,
• 9:13
  Speaker 8: as in like Matt thought about it once, So it
• 9:16
  Speaker 8: made it seem like Robert Jordan wasn't trying to make
• 9:18
  Speaker 8: light of it, but that it was just crafty writing
• 9:21
  Speaker 8: of this is something really bad that happened to somebody
• 9:24
  Speaker 8: and nobody acknowledged it or believed it, right, because that
• 9:27
  Speaker 8: would be realistic. But I don't think that we ever
• 9:30
  Speaker 8: we made it. We laugh it off like the trauma
• 9:32
  Speaker 8: wasn't really right. That's I think where the mistake is
• 9:35
  Speaker 8: is that it's laughed off, even by Matt at a
• 9:38
  Speaker 8: certain point, right, And if it was just written in
• 9:41
  Speaker 8: a way where that trauma felt legitimate, I don't think
• 9:44
  Speaker 8: it matters whether anybody believed him or not for it
• 9:47
  Speaker 8: to be an act portrayal. That's I guess.
• 9:49
  Speaker 7: And I have to bring up two points that I
• 9:50
  Speaker 7: feel like I discovered just through doing the podcast. One,
• 9:54
  Speaker 7: Elaine does laugh at him and then you do, but
• 9:57
  Speaker 7: they do in fact turn around and go, oh, you know,
• 9:59
  Speaker 7: we realize that's a problem, and they do talk to Thailand.
• 10:03
  Speaker 7: Thailand ignores the fuck out of them, and then they
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: have to run, but they do make an effort and
• 10:08
  Speaker 7: they do have a turnaround. And second, Matt is extremely traumatized.
• 10:14
  Speaker 7: He's denying it, but he is. Actually we discovered a
• 10:17
  Speaker 7: massive amount of trauma over the course of this book
• 10:21
  Speaker 7: that he is again denying but absolutely suffering from after
• 10:25
  Speaker 7: the Thailand thing that is written into the book. You know,
• 10:28
  Speaker 7: both of those things are true. It's not obvious and
• 10:32
  Speaker 7: it's not very well portrayed, but it is there. I
• 10:36
  Speaker 7: agree with you.
• 10:37
  Speaker 9: I will push back on Elaine's reaction a little bit
• 10:42
  Speaker 9: because she can't get through telling Matt that it was
• 10:46
  Speaker 9: very bad of Thailand without stopping to laugh. And for me,
• 10:50
  Speaker 9: it's like she says, that was very bad of Thailand
• 10:52
  Speaker 9: and then she turns away and laughs, And for me,
• 10:55
  Speaker 9: I mean, it stands out to me that is her
• 10:58
  Speaker 9: general Maybe I'm you know, I'm not quoting the book
• 11:01
  Speaker 9: for batim, but I remember Elaine giggling to herself, and
• 11:06
  Speaker 9: I honestly think early on it was a part of
• 11:09
  Speaker 9: why I just couldn't get behind a lane because it
• 11:12
  Speaker 9: was like.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Why is this funny to you? Like why is her
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: to Elaine?
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: And she did know better.
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: She does apologize after that point.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: She does apologize briefly, but she does so it's not
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: whole like first thought versus second action kind of thing
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: where it's like.
• 11:28
  Speaker 7: I mean to me.
• 11:28
  Speaker 9: It's the more like if she if she gave a
• 11:31
  Speaker 9: memorable apology, I feel differently. But it's the fact that
• 11:35
  Speaker 9: her reaction was to laugh, and then maybe later she
• 11:39
  Speaker 9: says something, oh my bad, but it I don't remember
• 11:42
  Speaker 9: that in.
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: The scope of the books.
• 11:43
  Speaker 9: I think if she had said, hey, Matt, that was
• 11:46
  Speaker 9: really wrong of me to laugh at you, I would
• 11:50
  Speaker 9: feel differently about the argument that this was written to
• 11:54
  Speaker 9: show us that this happens to men too, But the
• 11:57
  Speaker 9: fact that she giggles it off and then you know,
• 12:00
  Speaker 9: maybe I honestly don't remember the apology, but the fact
• 12:03
  Speaker 9: that I don't is like I needed more.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I needed more.
• 12:06
  Speaker 9: If you're going to make the argument that this was
• 12:09
  Speaker 9: done to show us something, yeah, otherwise sorry, no, no, no,
• 12:13
  Speaker 9: I was gonna say the last thing, like it feels
• 12:16
  Speaker 9: like it's supposed to be funny because it's Matts.
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but we didn't even remember that she apologized until
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: we did the pod and we're going through it by life, and.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: That was when I was like, oh, she does apologize.
• 12:28
  Speaker 7: Huh right, yeah, so brief because I shouldn't have laugh.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Like she she says it, but it goes by it
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 12:36
  Speaker 7: I don't remember, but that's good to know that she does. Yeah, no,
• 12:39
  Speaker 7: And that's we had to do the podcast and go
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: through line by line to discover both of those facts,
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: like we really did. Like it was you know, one
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: of the things that I really like about not doing
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: this is like, oh that's a retrospective where it really
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: did change my mind, not entirely, but a little bit
• 12:52
  Speaker 7: about Elane.
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: Not about Thailand or any of that, but it changed
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: my mind a.
• 12:55
  Speaker 7: Little bit about what Elaine and I need did and
• 12:58
  Speaker 7: how they reacted because I completely we missed their flip
• 13:01
  Speaker 7: flop and they turnaround. It makes me respect them a
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: little bit more now. They eventually, like the next morning,
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: had to leeve with kN and the ball wins.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: This situation gets kind of truncated with so they.
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: Don't never get a chance to follow up, and then
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: Matt is pinned under a wall for you know, four years. Uh,
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: so you know, let's let's get off this topic. Just
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: we can cut it off, please God.
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: Oh I hope it doesn't come up as much in
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: the next book.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Well not until we get back to Matt but anyhow,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: get Yeah, so if we have any thoughts on kat
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Swain and the whole Kyrie in and situation.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Did okay?
• 13:43
  Speaker 9: Cats Swain first appears in Lord of Chaos, Is that correct?
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: No, she knows she shows up and is this.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: The book shop? So then that that.
• 13:53
  Speaker 9: Changes what I was going to say, because I was
• 13:55
  Speaker 9: going to say mau Rain leaves us at the end
• 13:57
  Speaker 9: of Fires of Heaven, we have this time I'm without
• 14:00
  Speaker 9: her and a chaotic time. But when cad Swain shows up,
• 14:06
  Speaker 9: you know, cad Swain gets all this hate and I understand,
• 14:09
  Speaker 9: I understand it, but I also think she's just not
• 14:14
  Speaker 9: mau Rain.
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: She's not MoU Rain. Yeah, and there's you know, she.
• 14:18
  Speaker 9: Is written in a way where it's like this is
• 14:21
  Speaker 9: your new Mora Rain, and there's no way a reader
• 14:24
  Speaker 9: is going to get behind cad Swain the way they
• 14:27
  Speaker 9: get behind MoU Rain.
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: That's how I feel about her. When she first shows up,
• 14:31
  Speaker 7: I mean, I go behind tad swayin.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I liked her.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: I was like, okay, you know what, she is not
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: fucking around.
• 14:37
  Speaker 6: She's like, Okay, this guy is fucking the head.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: We need to do something about this. Like, you know,
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: she goes with the purpose of helping him find his humanity. Again,
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: does she execute poorly?
• 14:49
  Speaker 10: Yeah, she didn't.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: Be super great, but you know the fact that she
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: just came in out of like retirement where people literally
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: didn't know where the fuck she was or even if
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: she was still alive. And she comes out like I'm
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: here bitious, let's fix his mofo. Like I don't know,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: I like your attitude and her hair thing.
• 15:10
  Speaker 8: I love. I love Katswain. Actually, I think she's actually
• 15:13
  Speaker 8: a great character. She epitomizes, in my opinion, like the
• 15:18
  Speaker 8: of the modern I said, eye of the story. She
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: is like the pinnacle of what they achieved to be
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: right like, and I think she's a badass in a
• 15:25
  Speaker 8: lot of way. Here's my issue. Nobody attempted and even
• 15:28
  Speaker 8: Moraine attempted to help Rand. By helping Rand and by
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: gaining his trust, they all tried to manipulate and like
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: even Morain did, Like Morain was trying to manipulate, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 8: he would have listened had he trusted them. It's the
• 15:45
  Speaker 8: first rule of any type of leadership, like you want
• 15:48
  Speaker 8: to gain trust. And that's my only issue with Katswain,
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: Like I understand why she approached it the way she did.
• 15:55
  Speaker 8: He was used to everybody bowing down to him, and
• 15:57
  Speaker 8: she was showing him she wasn't going to do that. Right,
• 16:00
  Speaker 8: She ignores him the first time she meets him and
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: stuff like that, Like it's I like that, and it's cool,
• 16:05
  Speaker 8: but it's just like, at the end of the day,
• 16:07
  Speaker 8: she failed in my opinion, because nobody tried to gain
• 16:10
  Speaker 8: Rand's nobody man is the only one who really did manally,
• 16:14
  Speaker 8: the only one who never manipulated.
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but she's so bad at it. She's just like,
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: I need you to protect Lamb now, and he's like, okay,
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: you're manipulating me.
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: Great, yeah, right right.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: But she also cares about Rand, not the dragon reborn,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: which is what all the other I said I they
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: see him as a dragon reborn. She's like, I saw
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: you as Rand and cared about you long before I
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: became ice to die.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So she's she's in a different category.
• 16:39
  Speaker 9: Really, Yeah, I honestly think the end of Lord of
• 16:42
  Speaker 9: Chaos is such a turning point because, like you said,
• 16:45
  Speaker 9: a radio, they're no longer looking at this as a person.
• 16:49
  Speaker 9: They put him in a box and tried to carry
• 16:52
  Speaker 9: him away because he's not a person. He's the Dragon
• 16:55
  Speaker 9: Reborn and they need him. So I with this book,
• 17:00
  Speaker 9: it's interesting like he escaped from that situation and now
• 17:05
  Speaker 9: people either have to accept him as a person or
• 17:07
  Speaker 9: as this thing.
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: I just have the thought, Yeah, all objects of the
• 17:12
  Speaker 7: power belong to the White power, and the Dragon Ringborn
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: is an object them as an object.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: I'm in a box and taken a stash in the
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: basement to them, he's an object.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really think.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: I think the whole manipulation thing too, just points to
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: like the collective failing of.
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: The Eye to die.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: As a society, they're so used to people capitulating and
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: respecting their authority. They don't know how to deal with people,
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: like on a real personal level. They are very poor
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: with interpersonal relationships for the most part, because you know,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: even inside the tower, it's not a safe place. People
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: are you know, there's machination going people are you know,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: their infections, and this Aja doesn't get along with this
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: other ajac and there's always shit going on. They don't
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: know how to relate to a normal human being. So
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: you know, I think that's just well and collected. They
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: are individuals obviously who are different, but as a collective
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: it's a failing and you feel a lot with a
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: lot of the isid Ie you deal with him.
• 18:17
  Speaker 8: I think you see this play out in Nineves, not
• 18:19
  Speaker 8: to get into a different book, but Ninive's character plays
• 18:22
  Speaker 8: this out because the title isid I means servants of
• 18:25
  Speaker 8: all and they are in no way, shape or form servant,
• 18:28
  Speaker 8: Like they don't serve anybody, They serve them. And yes
• 18:32
  Speaker 8: they may have good intentions sometimes like peace in the
• 18:36
  Speaker 8: world whatever, but like it's done through their agenda and
• 18:39
  Speaker 8: not actually serving people. In Ninieve's whole push at the
• 18:42
  Speaker 8: end of the books is why would I walk slowly
• 18:45
  Speaker 8: and maintain dignity if it meant letting people die?
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 18:49
  Speaker 8: Like that whole thing, and it's just stupid, like why
• 18:52
  Speaker 8: are we focusing on the we're servants. I'm here to help, which,
• 18:56
  Speaker 8: by the way, it's funny that Nineve has that because
• 18:58
  Speaker 8: nine treats people like crap haf But do you ever.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: She treats people poorly a lot of the time, but
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: it's a service level thing.
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: She is fiercely loyal.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: She will do a murder for the people that she loves,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: and she has empathy for other people even when she
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: doesn't know them, Like when they found that wounded ideel
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: like by the river or whatever.
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that whole thing.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: Like, you know, she's like, no, I'm going to help
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: this person because this is what I do and it's
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: the right thing to do, and they're a person and
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: that's what you do with people. So you know, she's
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: got a barbed tongue, but you know she's got a
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: good heart.
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's been service worker as well. That kind of
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: bugs me a little bit about her. I'm like, do
• 19:44
  Speaker 7: you really have to brate everybody who's helping you? Is
• 19:47
  Speaker 7: that really you're just making everybody's day? I mean no,
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: I give her some excuse because in the first half
• 19:51
  Speaker 7: of the series, she's deliberately trying to make yourself angry
• 19:54
  Speaker 7: all the time. So yeah, okay, you're always in a
• 19:58
  Speaker 7: bad mood.
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: I get that, But you know, at the same.
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: Time, it is weakness ommurs, Like I wish she was
• 20:02
  Speaker 7: nicer to people because like it doesn't cost her anything.
• 20:17
  Speaker 9: We talked about this in our last episode where it
• 20:19
  Speaker 9: was like, if Ninive through fewer tantrums, And it's not
• 20:23
  Speaker 9: to say Ninive is, you know, a lunatic. It's just
• 20:26
  Speaker 9: saying like, if if you take into stock what's in
• 20:29
  Speaker 9: the books, if on the show, Ninive were to lash
• 20:33
  Speaker 9: out fewer times, we could see it every once in a.
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: While, it would make her better at what she's doing.
• 20:39
  Speaker 9: It would make her a better wisdom, a better person
• 20:43
  Speaker 9: at portraying that, like I know what I'm doing.
• 20:46
  Speaker 7: She lashes out in the books.
• 20:49
  Speaker 9: In certain moments where it's like, all right, we didn't
• 20:51
  Speaker 9: need to see that from you.
• 20:53
  Speaker 8: But that's not the point though. The point of it
• 20:55
  Speaker 8: is that she does that because it's her into speaking.
• 20:58
  Speaker 8: But I think that's so yeah, a girl to her
• 21:00
  Speaker 8: character arc. That's that's the point I was making.
• 21:03
  Speaker 9: But I just want to say that, like, I hope
• 21:06
  Speaker 9: she lashes out less on the show because I don't
• 21:10
  Speaker 9: think it changes Ninives a character.
• 21:12
  Speaker 7: I think it makes her smarter. So that's what I
• 21:15
  Speaker 7: I want to see.
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: I want to see I want to see Nimie lose.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: Her temper and I want there to be a reason
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: for it, because a lot of times in the books
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: she's snapping and there doesn't seem to be a reason
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: when you're showing in a show like we can show
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: she's soaking well and she's exhausted and this is why
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: she's snapping. She's you know, things are happening. And I
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: think that can be portrayed better in the show, so
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: that we see there's a catalyst for it, whether it's
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: right for her to do it or not, at least
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: we know why.
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: Does that makes sense?
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: I get that.
• 21:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah, So let's talk about the show and Crowned Swords
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: a little bit. What parts of Crown of Swords do
• 21:51
  Speaker 7: you think are going to make it into the show
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: and what is not? Like do you think colo Air
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: is going to make it?
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: Do you go?
• 21:59
  Speaker 7: Everyone's like no, do you think the whole battle? Well, Frially,
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: you want to say something.
• 22:06
  Speaker 9: That's just such an interesting question because like, col Ofvier
• 22:09
  Speaker 9: is a good one where if you look at the books,
• 22:11
  Speaker 9: it feels like important in its way, But if I'm
• 22:15
  Speaker 9: looking at what you cut from the show, absolutely COLIVI
• 22:18
  Speaker 9: who who wants to watch Colivier on TV? There are
• 22:21
  Speaker 9: I have issues with how all three of Rand's women
• 22:25
  Speaker 9: get together with him the first time. I think in
• 22:28
  Speaker 9: all three cases it's a little messed up in certain ways.
• 22:31
  Speaker 9: But I would rather have men and Rand get together
• 22:36
  Speaker 9: under you know, they've been through so much together, So
• 22:39
  Speaker 9: it would make more sense for me if like it
• 22:42
  Speaker 9: came out of Domi as wells than if it came
• 22:45
  Speaker 9: out of Colovir hanging herself in a subplot that doesn't
• 22:49
  Speaker 9: matter much to me.
• 22:50
  Speaker 7: It was onely too with cola of Air Herod fell, Yeah,
• 22:54
  Speaker 7: the only Herod fell thing.
• 22:55
  Speaker 8: I think col of Air only makes sense to put
• 22:58
  Speaker 8: in the show if they want to ramp up the
• 22:59
  Speaker 8: political drama. If they want to pull that into the show,
• 23:02
  Speaker 8: that would be one reason to do it, because that
• 23:04
  Speaker 8: is political drama. She tries to potentially stage a coup
• 23:07
  Speaker 8: with the Isidye number two. It depends on if they're
• 23:11
  Speaker 8: going to play up this toxic masculinity and Rand that
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: he can't let women die because col of Air is
• 23:16
  Speaker 8: one of the prime examples of a woman that he
• 23:19
  Speaker 8: feels responsible for killing. If they don't want to do that,
• 23:22
  Speaker 8: and I would understand that if they didn't want to
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: do that, which I would actually love if they didn't
• 23:26
  Speaker 8: do that hopefully then then yeah, I think that makes
• 23:29
  Speaker 8: sense to cut I think there's other ways they can
• 23:31
  Speaker 8: ramp up the politics other than that, But I think that's.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: About I want to make him if they want to
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: make him tortured about the people who have died, you know,
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: under his watch, so to speak, like make it like everybody,
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: Like not every single person, like you can't count every
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: single person, but like the people he knows personally, the
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: people that he feels like he could have saved, regardless
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: of what their gender is, Like it doesn't have like.
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: Don't just doing it, think, yeah, it doesn't have to
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: be gendered.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: I think that being tortured by the fact that these
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: people died for him, I think is in a lot
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: of ways an essential component to like his personality, in
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: his character. So I feel like maybe something would be
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: because that I feel like that points to like the
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: strand this hair of humanity that's left of him, Like
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: one little thing that keeps him connected to the rest
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: of the world is the fact that he's devastated that
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: these people died in his like basically following him and
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: serving him.
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: And he hates it.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: And you know, so if they did it in a
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: non gendered way. I think that it could be really
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: well done. But I agree it should not just be women.
• 24:39
  Speaker 7: The lost battle with him with a dark one. He
• 24:42
  Speaker 7: lets go of all of that everybody, not just the women.
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: He wants other women first, but then it has to
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: be everybody, so there is precedent for that.
• 24:50
  Speaker 8: The lensed I think we have to be careful of
• 24:53
  Speaker 8: as fans that again, all of five of us agree here.
• 24:56
  Speaker 8: This is not I just think it's one thing to
• 24:58
  Speaker 8: be careful of when analyzing literature is to impose, like
• 25:02
  Speaker 8: Rand doesn't need to be a good person for this.
• 25:04
  Speaker 8: Does that make sense? Like I don't need Rand to
• 25:07
  Speaker 8: not be toxically masculine, right, Like that can be there
• 25:11
  Speaker 8: for in him still be super screwed up and flawed,
• 25:14
  Speaker 8: Like I don't want to project my morality onto the
• 25:17
  Speaker 8: way I expect the characters to act, or I'll be
• 25:20
  Speaker 8: offended at you. Does that make sense?
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 25:23
  Speaker 8: I don't think that that. I think if anything, it
• 25:25
  Speaker 8: calls attention to how stupid.
• 25:26
  Speaker 9: That Going off what Jess said, The fact that cool
• 25:30
  Speaker 9: of Beer is even on his list, it's it's sort
• 25:33
  Speaker 9: of again a turning point for Rand's list because it's like,
• 25:38
  Speaker 9: come on, dude, she stole this throne, she lied about it,
• 25:43
  Speaker 9: then you came in and called her out, and she
• 25:46
  Speaker 9: killed herself. And I'm not making light of the fact
• 25:48
  Speaker 9: that she killed herself. But when Rand makes this list
• 25:51
  Speaker 9: of people that died for him, some of these people
• 25:56
  Speaker 9: actually died for him, and Colavier is also on the list.
• 26:00
  Speaker 11: And.
• 26:02
  Speaker 9: Yeah, and it takes away from the seriousness of Rand's lists,
• 26:08
  Speaker 9: the fact that Coolavir is even there. It's like, look,
• 26:10
  Speaker 9: I'm not minimizing her suicide. I'm not saying that that's
• 26:13
  Speaker 9: not a dark moment and that you know all of that.
• 26:16
  Speaker 9: But as far as Rand's compositing a list of people
• 26:21
  Speaker 9: who have died for him, when her name is near
• 26:24
  Speaker 9: the top, it's like, okay, but let's stop and think
• 26:27
  Speaker 9: about what you're making a list of. And I honestly
• 26:30
  Speaker 9: think if they were to cut it, it makes Rand's
• 26:34
  Speaker 9: suffering more real because the people he's thinking about actually
• 26:39
  Speaker 9: died for him. I think that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Well makes way more sense on that list because.
• 26:43
  Speaker 9: Here's yes, someone like that, Yeah, people who die and
• 26:49
  Speaker 9: the list, you know, I think of aria.
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: But the list doesn't have to be twenty names. It
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: can be six and they can be moments on the
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: show that we remember. So when it comes to thinking
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: of Colevie as someone who died for him, I just
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: don't think that's a strong choice because.
• 27:09
  Speaker 8: A dark friended woman on it like the track he
• 27:12
  Speaker 8: killed her back and is like she died.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: You do.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: You're right on the show.
• 27:19
  Speaker 9: I would love for a more succinct list that actually
• 27:23
  Speaker 9: lists people we've seen die.
• 27:25
  Speaker 12: For Rand agree with that.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: So speaking of things, we could cut paren and Fayla
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: and Berlyn head off to meet with Massima.
• 27:33
  Speaker 13: That is a whole.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Arc that I don't think has a lot of point.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Do you think we're going to see Massima?
• 27:38
  Speaker 8: Yes, yes, I'll tell you why I think there. I
• 27:41
  Speaker 8: thinka Massiema represents something that's very real in society.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're called the white Cloaks Zelotry.
• 27:50
  Speaker 8: Well, I don't know that he's because he's a little
• 27:52
  Speaker 8: bit more chaotic than like and there is a it's
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: he's a cult. I mean he's the leader of a cult.
• 27:57
  Speaker 8: That's what he is. He's the leader of a cult.
• 27:59
  Speaker 8: That's what Massie and it's the cold of Massima. Now
• 28:02
  Speaker 8: here's the other part, the hard part. If you cut
• 28:04
  Speaker 8: that you have to come up. There's a whole lot
• 28:06
  Speaker 8: of collateral damage in the plot if you remove that,
• 28:11
  Speaker 8: because that begins like three other arcs, And if you
• 28:14
  Speaker 8: don't do that, you need to figure out something for
• 28:16
  Speaker 8: Paring to be doing. Okay, Like there's a lot of
• 28:19
  Speaker 8: character development for other characters fail. Some of Fayle's best
• 28:23
  Speaker 8: development comes from the shite like all the rest of
• 28:27
  Speaker 8: the arcs that are.
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: Involved that she kills as.
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: I love that amazing, So I.
• 28:33
  Speaker 8: Think it could be I think it could be combined
• 28:36
  Speaker 8: and shortened and maybe added to. But I think that
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: there's actually a story to tell, and there's certain things
• 28:42
  Speaker 8: I think that will come across better on the screen
• 28:46
  Speaker 8: than will on the page. And I think that's one
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: of the things that you might think.
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: I was just I tend to agree with you.
• 28:54
  Speaker 14: Having a quote unquote profit like that is it's a
• 28:58
  Speaker 14: way of illustrating like the kind of influence just even
• 29:02
  Speaker 14: the idea of a person like this can have.
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: And you know, like they've.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: Said, it is applicable to society now as well as
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: at other times. You know, the mass is following a
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: golden throated leader or you know, not golden throated as
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: the case maybe, and you know the things that can
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: result from that. I feel like they need to expand
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: the stuff that Messima and his band of misfit due though,
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: in order to sort of better illustrate sort of the
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: impact of blindly following somebody who says that they're doing
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: it for the glory of this guy, but is actually
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: doing it for the glory of himself.
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: Just show them killing some villagers who aren't will swear, and.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Dragons Sworn in general is a hazard. They're just on
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the periphery the whole time.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: So he could make him more of a leader of
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: the dragon Sworn rather than just a subset of the dragons.
• 29:59
  Speaker 8: Also, so like that it kind of sets up what
• 30:01
  Speaker 8: I think could be a cool plot moment. I love
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: the part where parent and I cannot remember if this
• 30:06
  Speaker 8: is in Chrown of Swords. I think it is. Yeah,
• 30:08
  Speaker 8: it is, where he basically rounds up the prophets men
• 30:12
  Speaker 8: and is like, hang him, and I don't know who
• 30:15
  Speaker 8: I am. I'm the prophet that's next to this book.
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: I think it's next to Okay, yeah, this one. He's
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: just sent off.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Right because in this book it's just the beginning of time.
• 30:24
  Speaker 8: I forgot I forgot, yes, but I like that it
• 30:27
  Speaker 8: sets up that moment. So if we're on that plot thread, like,
• 30:29
  Speaker 8: I actually think that's kind of a cool moment where
• 30:31
  Speaker 8: Parent is like no, no, no, no, We're done with this
• 30:33
  Speaker 8: dass ship and you know, like moving on.
• 30:36
  Speaker 9: So I just want to say, I hear what everyone's
• 30:39
  Speaker 9: saying about Messima, and I disagree hard because there is nothing.
• 30:45
  Speaker 7: There is truly nothing in this.
• 30:48
  Speaker 9: Story that gets explored through Missima that can't be explored
• 30:53
  Speaker 9: through the White Cloaks. And I disagree that it's important
• 30:57
  Speaker 9: to Parent's story because eventually Parent's story becomes the White
• 31:02
  Speaker 9: Cloak story anyway.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: So if I were adapting this for.
• 31:06
  Speaker 9: Television, the first thing I would cut and combine would
• 31:11
  Speaker 9: be Missima. I'd be like, everything that happens in the story,
• 31:15
  Speaker 9: make it happen in the White Cloak story. It's all
• 31:17
  Speaker 9: connected to Parent anyway, and it honestly and I love
• 31:23
  Speaker 9: This is what spoilers so I can say I love
• 31:26
  Speaker 9: it when Fayol kills Messima. It's her second best moment,
• 31:30
  Speaker 9: but it's not worth it. We don't need it. She
• 31:33
  Speaker 9: could kill child by our for all I care. As
• 31:35
  Speaker 9: far as how the story works, out. It does not matter.
• 31:39
  Speaker 9: There are so many fanatics in this story. The idea
• 31:44
  Speaker 9: that we need Massima on top of the White Cloaks
• 31:47
  Speaker 9: does not make sense to me. And if I'm adapting
• 31:51
  Speaker 9: this for television, cut all of Messima, cut all of
• 31:56
  Speaker 9: the dragon Sworn, make it all the White Cloak plus
• 32:00
  Speaker 9: it's the same thing, but one is a little more interesting.
• 32:04
  Speaker 7: I that's how I feel.
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: I make a fair point.
• 32:08
  Speaker 8: I get behind that. I get behind that. I just
• 32:10
  Speaker 8: I don't care about the Massima arc, although I do
• 32:12
  Speaker 8: like the I like the person fanatically following something. And yes,
• 32:16
  Speaker 8: I think the White Cloaks and Maseema played two different
• 32:18
  Speaker 8: roles though, but I don't know that they have to
• 32:20
  Speaker 8: be explained. That being said, whatever it is, there has
• 32:23
  Speaker 8: to be an impetus for a pairing to leave with
• 32:26
  Speaker 8: all the armies and go down there and get captured
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: by the Shadow, Like there has to be something that
• 32:31
  Speaker 8: causes That's all.
• 32:32
  Speaker 7: Right, That's what I meant by totally.
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: I hear that.
• 32:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't feel like Messima actually plays a role
• 32:37
  Speaker 8: in parents art. It's what that begins right where.
• 32:40
  Speaker 12: He has to go.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And there's so much more room to explore
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: like religious zelotry that like the White Cloaks and Messima
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: both like poke at it with a very blunt stick
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: and then back away, and it's like, yeah, combine them
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: and make that stick sharper, and we could have a
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: much more interest and conversation about the role of religious
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: celotry in apocalypsees nihilism safe.
• 33:00
  Speaker 8: The only thing I like though about Massima is I
• 33:03
  Speaker 8: do think it misses the chance to do the individual
• 33:06
  Speaker 8: commentary on one person being the call it charismatic, call
• 33:10
  Speaker 8: it whatever, but the illogical yet dogmatic leader right that
• 33:14
  Speaker 8: his dogma actually changes to suit the moment, Whereas I
• 33:19
  Speaker 8: feel like the White Cloaks, on the other hand, are
• 33:21
  Speaker 8: a group that follows a dogma that the group actually
• 33:25
  Speaker 8: has an arc through the story, kind of led by gallad.
• 33:28
  Speaker 8: I mean, the only argument I can give is I
• 33:30
  Speaker 8: think that Massima is a little bit more reflective of
• 33:34
  Speaker 8: certain demagogues in our current political I can't and I
• 33:42
  Speaker 8: don't feel like you having an equivalent, because I don't
• 33:44
  Speaker 8: feel like you can say Trump is a white clok.
• 33:46
  Speaker 8: Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like, I
• 33:49
  Speaker 8: don't think those two types of dogma are the same.
• 33:52
  Speaker 8: So if I was going to make an argument to
• 33:54
  Speaker 8: keep Massima. That would be the argument is that it's
• 33:57
  Speaker 8: a little.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Like cloth and lawful for the most part, chaotic because
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: you could make a disaffected white cloak.
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: If I like that, I was going to throw out though.
• 34:12
  Speaker 9: If miss Sema shows up, he had better be compelled
• 34:16
  Speaker 9: by Grendel and that had better be important. That's the
• 34:22
  Speaker 9: last thing I want to say about miss Sema is like,
• 34:24
  Speaker 9: if you're going to do it, he had better be
• 34:26
  Speaker 9: crazy because Grendel's compelling him and everything that happens after because.
• 34:32
  Speaker 8: Of that, or what he is a forsake he and
• 34:37
  Speaker 8: buyer or get that compelling others that, yeah, I mean,
• 34:43
  Speaker 8: just to reveal Demandra. That was one of the theories
• 34:47
  Speaker 8: about where Demandrad was is there. That was one of
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: the theories is that Massima was Demandra.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: That wasect I really like that.
• 34:54
  Speaker 9: Dollar That'd be fun because it would make Demandred a
• 34:57
  Speaker 9: good actor.
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: Although it would be great because there he would be
• 35:01
  Speaker 8: leading people about the dragon that's out of cure for him,
• 35:04
  Speaker 8: but because.
• 35:05
  Speaker 7: Then he'd make him chill.
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: If there's out there that yeah, if there's a for
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: taken out there who just likes the fuck around like,
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: is there just a fuck around for Saken, because that's
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: something just going out there and going like fucking chaos
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: and ship.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like I'm.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: Going to build this army for the Dragon and be
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: crazy cult leader just because I've never done it before.
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: And it sounds like a good time, you know what
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: I mean? Like I kind of love that.
• 35:27
  Speaker 7: I it kind of sounds like the laundrette to me,
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: like listening all of them, all of.
• 35:33
  Speaker 9: The Forsaken, or just like I'm gonna fuck around enough
• 35:36
  Speaker 9: to do anything.
• 35:37
  Speaker 8: Honestly, if they had done that, they would have been
• 35:39
  Speaker 8: more successful.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like look at the Forsaken.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Who is hanging out with the with the ice to
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: die was explained?
• 35:48
  Speaker 8: I mean in seconds, suns around, it takes fifteen seconds
• 35:52
  Speaker 8: to put compulsion. Imagine the type of chaos you could
• 35:56
  Speaker 8: have if you had the ability to do compulsion. Imagine
• 35:59
  Speaker 8: the type of ship you could have started just traveling
• 36:02
  Speaker 8: around and compulsing random people. I mean, my god, what
• 36:05
  Speaker 8: you do? What if you had gone to Master Nori
• 36:08
  Speaker 8: and compulsed him to lose all the money for Caitlin
• 36:12
  Speaker 8: right or burn the food like I mean that's.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: What they do with the Great generals in the last battle.
• 36:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah, but why did it?
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 36:18
  Speaker 8: No, it's the one like major loophole when you add
• 36:21
  Speaker 8: in some like that. Okay, likes why didn't they do more?
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 36:25
  Speaker 9: I will also say maybe they didn't do that early
• 36:28
  Speaker 9: on because they didn't want anyone to know that was
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: an option.
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: Once the last battle started.
• 36:32
  Speaker 8: They wouldn't have that makes sense, they wouldn't have gotten
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: to that.
• 36:36
  Speaker 9: I mean, we had justified Grendall not doing this sort
• 36:40
  Speaker 9: of thing sooner, unless I consider maybe she didn't want
• 36:44
  Speaker 9: to get caught before the last battle started because at
• 36:48
  Speaker 9: that point people would be looking for it.
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: That's my best answer for that. But I know what
• 36:52
  Speaker 7: you're saying makes sense.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: I've always said that the only reason that the Side
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: of the Light won this bullshit is because the Fortaken were, ultimately,
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: as a collective.
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: Fucking incompetent is shit.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, extremely poor team like work skills, you know, together
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: or if any of them had been more like proficient
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: with their bullfit element over.
• 37:16
  Speaker 8: Ye side of it. They think they're more powerful than
• 37:21
  Speaker 8: they are, they're actually matched by it. Like the myth
• 37:25
  Speaker 8: is that they were these all powerful people, and that's
• 37:27
  Speaker 8: how they're portrayed for half the books until you start
• 37:30
  Speaker 8: to realize Nope, there are modern day equivalents that are
• 37:32
  Speaker 8: every bit as strong as that, maybe a little less experienced. However,
• 37:36
  Speaker 8: there are things that they don't know how to do
• 37:38
  Speaker 8: that Ninive does that a right. Ninive matches most of them,
• 37:42
  Speaker 8: like all but three of the female forsake and Ninive
• 37:45
  Speaker 8: is stronger in the power, then Olivia is stronger than
• 37:47
  Speaker 8: all of them, equal to land fear like there's like
• 37:52
  Speaker 8: it is, Sharina is stronger than all of them, but landpere.
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: So you have and they definitly talk about the difference
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: between training and strength. They say, won't risk training and
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: strength residing in the same body. They understand the difference
• 38:03
  Speaker 7: between those two. That someone can be strong and still
• 38:06
  Speaker 7: be kind of pathetic as a chance.
• 38:08
  Speaker 8: Why does Mugidion get her as kicked multiple because.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: She throws the aid on at mogeti In's head and
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: outwits her and kicks her ass.
• 38:18
  Speaker 12: That's why.
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because my name is bad ass. That's that's the
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: whole time.
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: Speaking of Ninive, this is Mashiara. This is the book
• 38:28
  Speaker 7: where she breaks her block. That is the big plot
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: point in this book. For a lot of people Like
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: this is really the character moment where she drowns and
• 38:39
  Speaker 7: then doesn't and gives up and get and.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Gets lamb all in one chapter, all in one chapter, yeah,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: which is the lag series.
• 38:48
  Speaker 7: And so what do you think about the idea that
• 38:50
  Speaker 7: she had to give in for once, that she had
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: to give up, Like that's such the opposite of what
• 38:56
  Speaker 7: we get in so many fantasy books where you have
• 38:58
  Speaker 7: to like just oh, you finally get strong enough or
• 39:02
  Speaker 7: hard enough or angry enough to get your power, and
• 39:05
  Speaker 7: she's you just have to give up.
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: That's really I think that Nieve hangs on to her
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: anger and her sort of her pride and all of
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: that so tightly because you know, she's had this lifetime
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: of being a young woman in a position of authority
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: in the patriarchical society, and I think that she honestly
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: just it's one of those things where you get to
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: a certain point and you just you can't stop, You
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: can't let it go, You can't ever really let it go,
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: you know, and you can. It's like it's it's it's
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: like it's got a grip on you in a way,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: like anxiety is kind of like that, I think, And
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: you know, and you feel like if you surrender to it,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: like you'll never get back again.
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: And I think that that's sort of what she's dealing with.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: And the only reason that she's surrendered in that moment
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: was because she was absolutely certain she was going to die,
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: and so she just decided, you know what, I'm not going.
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: To fight it anymore because this is inevitable, so you.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: Know, take me Jesus, And in that moment, then she
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: finally did what she needed to do in order to
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: like experience that moment. In that sensation, it's like when
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: you're in a voice lesson or something like that and
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: you're really struggling with something, like you know, if it's
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: addiction or if it's technique or something like that, and
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: like you finally make that breakthrough and you never struggle
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: with it again because now you know how it feels.
• 40:47
  Speaker 7: I just realized that this is the chapter where Land
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: returns and I need you finally learns how to relax.
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: And we've talked about the parallels between channeling and orgasming before,
• 40:59
  Speaker 7: but I do I really think that if you delve
• 41:02
  Speaker 7: into it and you want to get dirty or think
• 41:05
  Speaker 7: about on a sexual level, this is the chapter where
• 41:07
  Speaker 7: we're in I need learned how to let go of
• 41:10
  Speaker 7: that tension and basically go with the flow as they say, okay,
• 41:16
  Speaker 7: and that's something you haven't been able to do before
• 41:19
  Speaker 7: until Land shows up.
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: I so I have a controversial opinion about the scene.
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: I love the chapters. I have like a.
• 41:28
  Speaker 9: Thing about reading about drowning. There's also a moment in
• 41:33
  Speaker 9: Broken Earth where I'm like, I can't read this because
• 41:35
  Speaker 9: it's too much for me because I don't know it's
• 41:38
  Speaker 9: opening a book too. I know the partner yes, and
• 41:42
  Speaker 9: reading about this chapter, I your question set how do
• 41:45
  Speaker 9: you feel about and I need meaning to surrender, to
• 41:48
  Speaker 9: set herself free. It's such an incredible moment for me
• 41:54
  Speaker 9: because we've been building up to this, We've been waiting
• 41:57
  Speaker 9: for this, we've been waiting.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: And she finally does it, and she gets.
• 42:02
  Speaker 9: Herself out and then Land is there to rescue her.
• 42:07
  Speaker 9: And it makes me so mad because first of all,
• 42:11
  Speaker 9: it's crazy that Land is there to rescue her the
• 42:15
  Speaker 9: second she breaks out of that boat. The second part
• 42:18
  Speaker 9: is there's no reason because she saved her own ass.
• 42:23
  Speaker 9: She saved herself and this was her moment, and then
• 42:28
  Speaker 9: Lane had to be there to grab her arm and
• 42:33
  Speaker 9: swim her out of the water.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: And the worst part of all of it for.
• 42:37
  Speaker 9: Me is she she does this incredible thing that we've
• 42:41
  Speaker 9: been waiting for. Land for some reason, is the one
• 42:45
  Speaker 9: to pull her out of the water. And then Ninieve says,
• 42:48
  Speaker 9: oh my god, this is horrible. I look like a
• 42:51
  Speaker 9: mess because my boyfriend is hovering over me.
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I had been.
• 42:56
  Speaker 7: I am so cred.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: How horrible that I'm so looking wet.
• 43:00
  Speaker 9: Never mind that I just saved my own ass from
• 43:04
  Speaker 9: near death, but my boyfriend it's not very Ninive of her,
• 43:11
  Speaker 9: and I don't like it, because to me, the coolest
• 43:15
  Speaker 9: thing is Ninive being like I'm gonna die. And that
• 43:19
  Speaker 9: is the reason she's able to save herself, because she
• 43:24
  Speaker 9: is not someone who surrenders, and she finally does it
• 43:28
  Speaker 9: in truly a moment of life or death. It happens,
• 43:31
  Speaker 9: she saves herself and Land still has to rescue her,
• 43:35
  Speaker 9: and she comes out of the water saying, oh, my
• 43:39
  Speaker 9: hair is wet.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I don't like that, even though I love how she
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: comes out of it. Anyway, that's my feeling.
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: I have counterpoint.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: So imagine that your spouse is a channeler, and you
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: know for a fact that they are blocked and they
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: can channel unless they're super super angry. And you're a
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: person who can think critically, and you know that she's
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: not going to be super angry while she's drowning, and
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: you don't.
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: Want her to drown. So what are you going to do.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: Are you going to stand where you're at and let
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: her drown, or are you going to him drown whatever?
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: Or are you going to jump in and try to
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: extract her from that situation because you do not want
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: her to die and you know she cannot save herself
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: as a power.
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: That's what's happening here. Oh shit, she just went whatever
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: the fuck is you drowning? I love her and I
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: do not want this to happen. So he goes in.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: She was almost dead, She was literally like seconds from death,
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: which she finally surrendered, blew up the boat and got
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: out of the thing that trapped her. Right, why do
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: you think she has the energy just from to shore?
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: Why do you think he even has the energy to
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: get herself to the surface.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: That's whe I I hear you.
• 44:49
  Speaker 7: I have two issues with it.
• 44:51
  Speaker 9: The first and the bigger is the coincidence of land
• 44:54
  Speaker 9: being right there to pull her out. I think it
• 44:57
  Speaker 9: can be written in a way where Land blasts that
• 45:00
  Speaker 9: all away and gets to the shore and survives by herself.
• 45:04
  Speaker 9: I think it's already kind of written that way. She
• 45:07
  Speaker 9: basically would have been floating to the surface if Land
• 45:10
  Speaker 9: wasn't there. My if I were a writer, I would
• 45:14
  Speaker 9: let her drown, because.
• 45:16
  Speaker 7: That's my second argument.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: If I were a writer, it's her moment. It's not
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Land's moment. She does not.
• 45:27
  Speaker 9: Need him to save her because she saved herself.
• 45:31
  Speaker 12: That is my big.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Her which is I'm saying.
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: He saved herself. He didn't need to be there.
• 45:40
  Speaker 9: I don't think he I don't think he needed to
• 45:42
  Speaker 9: be there. I would rather have her come to my
• 45:46
  Speaker 9: romantic No.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 45:47
  Speaker 9: I I know people love this scene that this is
• 45:50
  Speaker 9: not a popular opinion of mine, But my opinion is
• 45:54
  Speaker 9: I thought that it was so cool when she got
• 45:58
  Speaker 9: out of that boat, When showed up in the water
• 46:01
  Speaker 9: at the same time to pull her out, I thought
• 46:03
  Speaker 9: it took away from.
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: What she did.
• 46:05
  Speaker 9: That's what I'm saying. I don't know if that makes sense.
• 46:08
  Speaker 9: I'm not saying I don't like them together. I love Land,
• 46:11
  Speaker 9: I love Ninive. I just for that particular moment. I
• 46:15
  Speaker 9: felt like he stole that from her. It felt like
• 46:18
  Speaker 9: it was a rescue scene when the truth is she
• 46:21
  Speaker 9: saved her own ass.
• 46:22
  Speaker 7: Is how I felt about it.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I understand your point, I just don't.
• 46:26
  Speaker 8: I don't. I never read that thinking Land saved her.
• 46:29
  Speaker 8: I read that thinking Land was there when she got out,
• 46:32
  Speaker 8: And like, I just never read it that way.
• 46:34
  Speaker 7: I don't think he was there to be impressed.
• 46:36
  Speaker 8: I think he was there that was there to show
• 46:38
  Speaker 8: Ninive got everything she wanted real fast, Like that was
• 46:41
  Speaker 8: a triumphal moment for her.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: She wanted Land. She didn't think she could have Land.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Sure you she didn't.
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: She wasn't even sure if he was alive.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: And there he is, Yeah, is she tavern?
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: Now?
• 46:53
  Speaker 8: To depend on that part in mind, keep in mind
• 46:57
  Speaker 8: if you were even looking at the harbor, which Land
• 46:59
  Speaker 8: was there looking for her? In the harbor is huge
• 47:01
  Speaker 8: there he knows what bailfire. Bailfire cut a ship in
• 47:05
  Speaker 8: half in the middle of the harbor. He's I'm not
• 47:07
  Speaker 8: saying he could. I'm just saying, like.
• 47:10
  Speaker 7: I'm not saying he wouldn't recognize bailfire.
• 47:12
  Speaker 8: Well, what I'm saying is is I think I think
• 47:15
  Speaker 8: he was about to be going across the harbor anyway,
• 47:18
  Speaker 8: Like I think he was getting on a boat when
• 47:20
  Speaker 8: he saw it. And that's how they explain the fact
• 47:22
  Speaker 8: that he happened to be there, is he saw it
• 47:25
  Speaker 8: happen and then he made the person go.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: So I think he was on the water already.
• 47:28
  Speaker 8: It was something like that. He was following.
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: He saw her get on the boat, and he followed
• 47:32
  Speaker 7: her boat. He was very much followed that cab type situations,
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: which and she he was basically in the cab behind
• 47:39
  Speaker 7: her when she got bail fired, so that's why. And
• 47:41
  Speaker 7: then he was able and then obviously he was in
• 47:43
  Speaker 7: front of her because she moved back in the river
• 47:45
  Speaker 7: and then he jumped in.
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: Good care.
• 47:47
  Speaker 9: I hear all that, and I don't mean, I don't
• 47:49
  Speaker 9: mean to discount what you're saying, Jess, I hear you.
• 47:51
  Speaker 9: I for me personally, I get so excited when she
• 47:55
  Speaker 9: blasts that wood away and gets out. I really wanted
• 47:59
  Speaker 9: her to surface by herself. I just wanted that for
• 48:02
  Speaker 9: her because I thought that was her moment. But I
• 48:04
  Speaker 9: know what you're saying, and I think a lot of
• 48:06
  Speaker 9: people really love that is like the.
• 48:08
  Speaker 7: Moment when Landa and I need finally.
• 48:10
  Speaker 9: Get to come together and all these things are torn away,
• 48:13
  Speaker 9: you know, they're able to be together well.
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: And I think the way that I looked at it
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: when I read it is more of it wasn't him
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: rescuing her, because she obviously didn't need to be rescued.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: She did it herself. It's a team effort kind of thing,
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: like they're working as a team now. Like she got
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: part of the way, he helped her get the rest.
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: And that's the thing that you need in your life
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: as a person. And that's like what your partner does
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: for you, you know.
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: And I also.
• 48:44
  Speaker 7: Books, I was going to say it.
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: Potentially sort of highlights the fact that Ninia doesn't like
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: to ask for help.
• 48:54
  Speaker 6: She wants to do everything herself. She t Land enough.
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: To let him help her, And I don't think that
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: that's insignificant.
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, I.
• 49:02
  Speaker 7: Like, I like.
• 49:02
  Speaker 9: I like what you're saying about she needs him too.
• 49:05
  Speaker 9: Because what I was going to say was based on
• 49:08
  Speaker 9: the books. I don't know that Ninive needs Land's help.
• 49:12
  Speaker 9: I think Land needs Nieve's help if we look at
• 49:15
  Speaker 9: the scope of things. But I think that what you're
• 49:18
  Speaker 9: saying is important that. It's nice to see them have
• 49:20
  Speaker 9: a little balance of like needing each other.
• 49:22
  Speaker 7: I think that's important.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean and then they're a team like
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: from then on out, like he rescues her from you know.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Her, she rescues herself.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: He rescues her, and then they go get married and
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: they are just a team the rest of the way.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: You don't have any more of that, like will they
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: won't They unrequited like drama, Like they're just there in
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: their married for them.
• 49:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I love it.
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: Let's see.
• 49:48
  Speaker 7: The next bit I wanted to talk about is what
• 49:50
  Speaker 7: did you think about the introduction of the goal, the
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: shadow spawn that can't be killed by a channel er easily.
• 49:56
  Speaker 7: The first scene is uh, when Matt runs upstairs.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, because it's it's the other big point of
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: the book is then getting the Bowl of the Winds,
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: and then that is almost.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Entirely overshadowed by this demon creature.
• 50:09
  Speaker 7: These crazy things happened.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: I love that scene.
• 50:14
  Speaker 9: I love when Nine yells at Matt please go, and
• 50:18
  Speaker 9: Matt won't leave her and I needs like I'm asking you.
• 50:22
  Speaker 9: And it's really like her coming into her position as
• 50:25
  Speaker 9: a leader of like it doesn't matter who dies downstairs,
• 50:29
  Speaker 9: you need to go upstairs and fix this, and she's
• 50:35
  Speaker 9: she's such an ici die there.
• 50:37
  Speaker 7: I love that scene.
• 50:39
  Speaker 9: I like that Matt saves Elane, although I wouldn't have
• 50:43
  Speaker 9: minded Elane taking him down herself. But it's interesting that
• 50:48
  Speaker 9: Matt is the one to face off with him in
• 50:52
  Speaker 9: this first moment and ultimately does what he does.
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: Well do you think?
• 50:55
  Speaker 7: Oh my other question is.
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: The death of Herod fell by the golum great ending? Yeah,
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: the ending we didn't get yeah, yeah?
• 51:06
  Speaker 7: And that why do you think someone else sent the
• 51:09
  Speaker 7: goal on after prot fell as opposed to some other assassin.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: He knows that everybody else is fucking incompetent, so they
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: had to send somebody that people couldn't see. Like I mean,
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: I feel like at that point he was pulling off
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: the big guns because God knows the Dark Friends can't
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: do they're fucking dumbances.
• 51:26
  Speaker 9: Sure, And going off with that, I was going to say,
• 51:28
  Speaker 9: I think as soon as he thought there was a
• 51:31
  Speaker 9: possibility that it was going to be uncovered about the
• 51:34
  Speaker 9: fact that this can't be patched, it has to be
• 51:38
  Speaker 9: fixed completely, what Harrodfel was discovering. I think they sent
• 51:42
  Speaker 9: the best assassin they had, and I think it was
• 51:45
  Speaker 9: a goal on.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I think I think it.
• 51:47
  Speaker 9: For me, it goes to show how afraid the Dark
• 51:50
  Speaker 9: One was of what Harod Fell was studying being found out,
• 51:55
  Speaker 9: because ultimately that was it for him.
• 51:57
  Speaker 8: The only problem I have with all of them, I
• 51:59
  Speaker 8: don't think the Dark One actually knew what Herod Fell was.
• 52:03
  Speaker 8: I don't think the Dark One knew necessarily how Rand
• 52:06
  Speaker 8: could do it. Here's why I say that if the
• 52:08
  Speaker 8: Dark One had known how Rand would need to seal
• 52:10
  Speaker 8: the Boar, why would he have even allowed a shameel
• 52:14
  Speaker 8: to be touching the True Power when Raand got there.
• 52:16
  Speaker 9: He had no idea that the crust bailfire things was
• 52:19
  Speaker 9: a thing.
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: Though, right.
• 52:20
  Speaker 8: But my point on it is is like they if
• 52:23
  Speaker 8: that was going to be necessary, you remove that piece
• 52:26
  Speaker 8: like there shouldn't. What I'm saying is is the Dark
• 52:28
  Speaker 8: One if he actually knew, and Samuel had no fucking clue, Okay,
• 52:32
  Speaker 8: so why would Samuel have sent the goal on? That
• 52:34
  Speaker 8: seems ridiculous. Sami had no idea how he thought the
• 52:37
  Speaker 8: Dark One was invincible, right, Like I think that would
• 52:40
  Speaker 8: have had to have come from either Morgan or Shaida
• 52:43
  Speaker 8: Haran himself, right. I think it's just a plot hole,
• 52:47
  Speaker 8: is what I think it is. I think it's a
• 52:48
  Speaker 8: bad plot moment.
• 52:49
  Speaker 7: So can I fill that plot hole for you please?
• 52:52
  Speaker 7: Samuel doesn't know as Moody and is dead at this
• 52:55
  Speaker 7: point in the books. I believe Samuel believed that Herod
• 53:00
  Speaker 7: Fell was as Moodian and sent a goal them after
• 53:04
  Speaker 7: as Modian.
• 53:05
  Speaker 8: I think that's a great theory. I don't know that
• 53:07
  Speaker 8: we can ever prove it, but I think it's a
• 53:08
  Speaker 8: great thing.
• 53:10
  Speaker 7: Again, just because of a conversation with Grendel, we know
• 53:12
  Speaker 7: he doesn't know as Modian's dead at that point, Like
• 53:14
  Speaker 7: we have him directly saying that, and then yeah, RAN's
• 53:18
  Speaker 7: been meeting with this guy in secret over and over again. Yeah,
• 53:21
  Speaker 7: which is exactly what he was doing with his gleaman.
• 53:23
  Speaker 7: If it was a gleaman, why not his research assistant.
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: I like that.
• 53:28
  Speaker 9: I was also going to throw out there to sort
• 53:30
  Speaker 9: of get behind what Nabeless is saying. As far as
• 53:33
  Speaker 9: the plot hole goes for me, I don't think it
• 53:37
  Speaker 9: makes sense that the pattern would take into account Rand and.
• 53:42
  Speaker 7: To Shameel crossing bail streams.
• 53:45
  Speaker 9: I don't think the pattern would know if that makes
• 53:48
  Speaker 9: quote unquote know about that. It seems like since bailfire
• 53:52
  Speaker 9: is antithetical to the pattern, the pattern wouldn't take bailfire
• 53:56
  Speaker 9: into its pattern. But there are certain things the two
• 54:01
  Speaker 9: becoming one, all of that, the three becoming one.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: It does feel like I hear.
• 54:07
  Speaker 9: Enable us to saying in the sense that like I
• 54:09
  Speaker 9: am surprised the pattern seems to know about that moment,
• 54:14
  Speaker 9: if that makes sense, because I would imagine the dark
• 54:17
  Speaker 9: one doesn't.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 54:19
  Speaker 9: I guess I just think like the bailfire stuff can't
• 54:22
  Speaker 9: be a part of a pattern.
• 54:24
  Speaker 7: It's just a weave.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: It's just a weave.
• 54:28
  Speaker 8: And the way it works out, Rand could not have
• 54:31
  Speaker 8: won had he not been able to wield the troop
• 54:34
  Speaker 8: out that part.
• 54:35
  Speaker 7: That part, for me, yes could.
• 54:37
  Speaker 8: He said, he couldn't have ever won.
• 54:39
  Speaker 9: And how could the pattern take bailfire into account? If
• 54:43
  Speaker 9: the definition of bailfire is it burns through the pattern,
• 54:46
  Speaker 9: that to me.
• 54:47
  Speaker 8: It burns threads in the pattern, but the pattern, But.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Well, and maybe that's it.
• 54:52
  Speaker 9: Maybe the pattern does understand bailfire and take it into account.
• 54:56
  Speaker 7: He could understands it as wounds. And I feel like
• 54:59
  Speaker 7: it like antibodies, right, Basically, that's a lot of what
• 55:03
  Speaker 7: the pattern is doing is taverein. Are the patterns antibodies
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: to the dark one? And you know, and maybe a
• 55:11
  Speaker 7: GWayne is the antidote to well everything.
• 55:16
  Speaker 8: Of problems. If I bail fire you and you bail
• 55:18
  Speaker 8: fire me at the same time, do we both come
• 55:20
  Speaker 8: back to life? You know, there are there are lots
• 55:22
  Speaker 8: of questions that bail fire bigs the question I.
• 55:25
  Speaker 7: Love that and both like ten minutes ago. But you
• 55:29
  Speaker 7: know that always bail fire as a paradox. You can
• 55:32
  Speaker 7: get any outcome. The fact that Matt and Elaine and
• 55:36
  Speaker 7: Avienda came back to life, I think is entirely random,
• 55:40
  Speaker 7: and that would only happen some of the time, some
• 55:43
  Speaker 7: of the hard enough.
• 55:45
  Speaker 8: But here's the other part of that that's kind of dumb.
• 55:48
  Speaker 8: Then it shouldn't have counted that that Matt was separated
• 55:51
  Speaker 8: from the horn because he actually technically never died.
• 55:54
  Speaker 7: And that's what the pattern has to know about bail fire.
• 55:56
  Speaker 7: It has to know that he died. It has to just.
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: Saying like it.
• 55:59
  Speaker 8: It doesn't fall.
• 56:00
  Speaker 7: I love this conversation. These are all the things I
• 56:02
  Speaker 7: thought about. Welcome to I mean, when you're working.
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: Around the salefire, you end up with all the problems
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: that you get with time travel. Yeah, I know, impacting
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: the past and how that's going to change things and
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: ship like that, and you know, right.
• 56:17
  Speaker 6: It's a big sticky wicket.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, very much.
• 56:21
  Speaker 7: So another topic of conversation. I wanted to bring it
• 56:25
  Speaker 7: up Elida starting the hunt for the black odd Jab
• 56:29
  Speaker 7: that then results in you know, like Bavara and that
• 56:32
  Speaker 7: relationship sort of read a little.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: Bit, and the entire like name Salad within a name Salad,
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: that is that whole team.
• 56:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah, all the all the sitters that are very different people, yes.
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: Very different.
• 56:50
  Speaker 7: And then you get the ten. I said, I who
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: are the bulls from from Salad? The rebel and they
• 56:55
  Speaker 7: all they all was like the core six and then
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: there's the sixteen.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: And then there's the odds that had their own thing
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: going on. This sort of gets brought in sideways, like
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: halfway through. It's so bizarre.
• 57:06
  Speaker 7: Does the Sayeren stuff start in this book?
• 57:09
  Speaker 9: Oh yeah, it's Seren, not Ciane Sane.
• 57:13
  Speaker 7: It's Sane.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Sane is the white Ciane and Pavara.
• 57:16
  Speaker 9: Yeah okay, yeah, I I remember in my first read this,
• 57:22
  Speaker 9: this plot for me was like, oh, okay, we got
• 57:26
  Speaker 9: to get through this.
• 57:27
  Speaker 7: Even though I love the Isidaia wasn't into it.
• 57:30
  Speaker 9: And then I hit a point I think in book
• 57:34
  Speaker 9: ten surprisingly where I.
• 57:36
  Speaker 8: Was like, this is cool.
• 57:38
  Speaker 9: This is now one of my favorite parts of the story.
• 57:41
  Speaker 9: It's the stuff with Telene. I was like, this is
• 57:45
  Speaker 9: such a cool subplot. I want to read more of this.
• 57:48
  Speaker 9: So it flipped for me. But when it started I
• 57:51
  Speaker 9: wasn't into it.
• 57:52
  Speaker 7: Well, you know, And that brings up a good point
• 57:54
  Speaker 7: that this book, in a lot of ways to me,
• 57:56
  Speaker 7: feels like the turning point to set up the last battle.
• 58:00
  Speaker 7: Every one other book has really been its own sort
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: of self contained story. You know, you have the sort
• 58:05
  Speaker 7: of the first trilogy, and then you had you know,
• 58:08
  Speaker 7: these four Shadow Rising and then the Fires of Heaven
• 58:11
  Speaker 7: and then Lord of Chaos, and each of those is
• 58:13
  Speaker 7: sort of ran taking over a city or fighting a
• 58:16
  Speaker 7: force and fighting her forsaken, and they're very self contained stories.
• 58:19
  Speaker 7: And then you get to Crown the Swords, which has
• 58:22
  Speaker 7: so many plot threads that start and don't pay off
• 58:25
  Speaker 7: for three books. It does feel like he changed his
• 58:29
  Speaker 7: style of writing in this book.
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: And and yes, and I was gonna bring up the termslog.
• 58:35
  Speaker 7: You know, like that that this is where it starts,
• 58:37
  Speaker 7: not necessarily because to me, it's not because it's bad
• 58:41
  Speaker 7: writing or because it's not entertaining. It's because that payoff
• 58:44
  Speaker 7: for the plot threads he starts don't come for multiple books,
• 58:48
  Speaker 7: and so especially when you have years in between, it
• 58:51
  Speaker 7: feels like you're reading nothing and like nothing is happening.
• 58:55
  Speaker 7: But if you can read them all in a row,
• 58:57
  Speaker 7: you end up getting that payoff sooner, and it doesn't
• 59:01
  Speaker 7: quite have that same sloggy feel to it.
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: No, that makes a lot of sense, because I felt
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: every time I summarized chapters this whole season with the pod,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: it was like, this sets up book ten.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: This sets up like it's all set up.
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: Oh.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: The guy who recommended the series to me told me
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: that there was a slog that started in like book five.
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: He said it serves to slow down, and I never
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: noticed it. I didn't think that it was floggy there.
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: The only thing that was really floggy to me was
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: in Winter's Heart. I stopped in the middle of Winter's part,
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I can't do this anymore.
• 59:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I never felt that was Winter's hard cross
• 59:37
  Speaker 8: was the Twilight was rough, and I actually think Path
• 59:40
  Speaker 8: of Daggers to be rough.
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: I will probably change my mind when I get to
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: it again, but yeah, my impression, like I don't even
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: remember how I felt about it the second time I
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: read it. I sped through that in like three months
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: that I didn't retain.
• 59:53
  Speaker 6: A lot.
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: Happen, so I need to get off my ass and
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: read it again.
• 59:59
  Speaker 9: I I feel like the end of Winter's Heart gets
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 9: me through Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight, since the
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 9: end of Winter's Heart is basically what's happening in Crossroads
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 9: and Twilight anyway, but like the excitement of that.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 7: Which has earned like I it pushes me through. We've
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 7: talked about rearranging the chapters in the podcast and doing
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 7: the first section of Crossroads of Twilight before we do
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 7: the cleansing and just have back in chronological order. I
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 7: like that, so we don't know what's happening.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 8: Well, I think the I think the I think it's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 8: super interesting, Like I think it's a really cool moment
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 8: when Rand finally leaves formatting and then it's like everybody
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 8: knows their play, Like it's like they had this all
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 8: planned out Katswing takes charge. You're going to do this,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 8: You're going to do this. Like I love that moment
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 8: for the cleansing. I don't know, I just find it
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 8: really cool. Like I like seeing Kat swayin because right
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 8: like you know what I mean, I don't know.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 9: If she doesn't point and say there, I will be
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 9: so angry. I don't care if she has a parals net.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 9: I don't care what else. I don't care if she
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 9: looks like Kat Swayne. I need her to point and
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 9: say there and for a fountain of fire to appear.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 7: That's what I need from Kat Swayn.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 8: Can we mention one other thing though? How overpowered a
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 8: paraos net? Actually?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: What is she actually using it for?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 8: Other than she has tungriol that reflects the chance reflect
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 8: channeling like Matt's medallion.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: She has one of those. She has won the detects
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: men channeling. She has a well she like she.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 8: Has a shield, physical shield that basically covers her where
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 8: she can't be hit with swords and shit.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: When does she deflect channeling with one?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 8: She doesn't ever use it, but she has one that
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 8: does that.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 7: That's nuts. Yeah, remember that that's a crazy thing to not.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 8: Use the whole problem your companion, right, Yeah, it's in
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 8: the companion. And that actually is part of why I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 8: think Olivia kicks Lambfeir's ass is because Olivia is wearing
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 8: it a wearing ninety version.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 7: The rings.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah, she's wearing another paralys net is what has essentially another.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 7: One are the rings and they they're in ugry all.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 8: No, she has that. I think she had the rest
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 8: of us didn't. Nive had other ones.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 7: Right, but I think she gives a Levia the rings.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 8: She gave her all of them, all of them set.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah, so like there's a part of that, but it's
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 8: like those things are totally overpowered, like really I love
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 8: that though it also works up we're on tangents, right,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 8: kind of brings up some of the other.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 7: Fates just like we're tangents. Yes, we are in sets,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 7: like yeah, I guess we are.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 6: We're not.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 7: I'm done, No, it's fine, I was just laughing. I'm sorry.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 8: I was just going to say, there's all kinds of
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 8: other cool uses for the one power they could yes,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 8: quendyr armor.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: And yeah, like where the one so many weapons.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 7: I think they're gwayn to do a ton of those
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 7: Oh no, I you know, I just think little Quendyar
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 7: butlers would probably be the most effective thing really, you know,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 7: lightweight you can make a lot of heavy, right, yeah,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 7: I mean that's a good question. You know, they never
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 7: really talk about it, right, It's just it's strong. But
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 7: is it dense? Does it feel heavy? It's made out
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 7: of steel usually or silver? Or what is no stone?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 7: So I don't know. You know, it's one of those
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 7: things where the properties of Quendyar are not very well
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 7: defined other than you can't break it. And it seems
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 7: that no one picks it up and is like, oh,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 7: it's surprisingly heavy or surprisingly light. You know, it seems
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 7: to be like what do you think a stone objective
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 7: about that size would weigh?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 9: I think the fact that the seals where Quendyr made
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 9: it feel like it was going to be more important
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 9: in the last battle quendy R, or the crafting up it.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 7: I think it was just an excuse to have them survive.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 8: Yeah, let's be real here, the harbor chain that alained,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 8: or that a Gwaine turns into quindi Ar, that's never
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 8: going if it's a solid rock all the way through
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 8: and you can't even use the power to touch it.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 8: How are you going to pull that out of the
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 8: water in that way?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 7: A Gwaine really showed her right it.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 8: I don't know that whole I hate I hate that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 8: other way.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 8: That's not the book work.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, no other good things in this book, well good things.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: We've got this ridiculous arrangement with the sea folk that
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: is almost entirely pointless, because what do the sea folk do.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: They help with the bowl the winds and then they
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: piss off a lane. That's pretty much what the sea
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: folk do. But this is the book where that bargain
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: gets struck. That excellent scene where Matt is like, you're
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: going to agree to this because I require it. That's
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: a fun scene with him that this is the bargain of, like,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: you're going to do what my friends want and in return,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: I won't like beat you and tie you onto a
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: horse to do what they want. But then they mostly
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: just like right around and piss off a lane. Like
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: the one thing they do is help with the bowl
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: of winds, which is important. The Bowl the Winds is
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: an important plot point, but this is a this is
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: the book with the sea folks get introduced.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: In a really serious way, and then just it. They
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: always fall flat.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: To me.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 8: Part of the issue I think with the c folk
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 8: is they're never relatable and they're never like they're they're
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 8: never somebody like. I've never heard somebody once say I
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 8: just really connect with the lot or I really connect
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 8: with rest didn't like I don't even know how to say.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 8: They're damn name like, I don't. You don't ever connect
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 8: with them because they're just not likable. They're not realistic,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 8: they're not like they're.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 7: Just there's a moment when you first meet them.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 8: Yes, that's the only moment the whole series you like them, right, Yeah,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 8: the whole rest of the time they're just nasty, mean people.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 8: And I get that that's a cultural difference, but like,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 8: they're never relatable, so you never care, and then they
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 8: never do anything of important. So you combine those two
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 8: things and they're utterly forgetting righth I hear you.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I think about the scene it's right after I'm
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 9: not even gonna guess the name, when that one wind
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 9: finder is turning ninive up or threatens to turn ninive
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 9: upside down until the other wind finder who's in training
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 9: gets this ripe and basically they're just torturing Ninive during
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 9: this lesson. And then as Ninive leaves the lesson, the
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 9: person who was in training runs after nineve and is like,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 9: I really want to come to.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: The White Tower.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 9: And it's this really nice moment because you don't get
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 9: any of the sea folk saying anything sincere and to
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 9: actually get to feel like what they feel and see
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 9: that they don't they aren't just married to this society.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 9: They do want more from their lives. That's a really
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 9: nice moment for me.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, and I think we brought this up
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: on the podcast that like we see the sea Folk
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: at their worst, we see their highest up people out
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: of their comfort zone, dealing with our main cast, like
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: they are not going to be there come with all
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: of their nuance, Like these are politicians on a state
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: visit having a very bad time. But still, like you're saying, nabeless,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: like we don't connect with them. It makes them a
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: very hard plot to care about because we never see
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: them at their best. And yeah, like when Telene runs
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: after night even.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: It's like I want to be in office, is like
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: the most relatable moment.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: And then she promptly runs away with morel to go
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: be an office bye. So yeah, they're I love the
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Bowl of the Winds plot in principle, but spoilers, we're
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: going to be condensing some of the walk and talk
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: see folks chapters.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Those are not going to get full hour and a
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: half episode. It's a lot.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 9: There is this a podcast that's good with spoilers.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 5: Are you sat? That's me slaming my head into the desk.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 7: Yes, yes, there is a spoiler podcast. You should put
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 7: that in your name.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 8: Or something we should. I wasn't this whole time. I
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 8: wasn't sure if I could talk about spoilers. Yeah, it's
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 8: in the fight brit ok. Yeah, I totally agree with you.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 8: I feel like they're they're to me for the show.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 8: And again not to pivot that, but like if they're
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 8: going to use for the sea folk in the show,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 8: if they do the sea folk, they need to make
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 8: them bend. They need to make them more relatable, and
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 8: they need to give them something legitimate to do. If
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 8: if they're not, I just say cut up because I
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 8: think they're very cuttable at the moment. You don't need them.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: How hard is it to make pirates likable?
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 8: I mean topless pirates.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 7: Just make bailed domen all of the seas pirates.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: Just take bail doom my shirt.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 7: Yeah, just make bail domen every single everyone. Yeah, consolidating
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 7: boobies everywhere and the ocean.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: And there's so much like awesome potential with them, like
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: entirely seafaring culture. They've been on the oceans instead breaking.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: There's so much world building you can do. The Bowl
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: of the Winds could be like something only they know
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: how to use. But yeah, it would be so easy
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: to just be like, oh yeah, there's a couple of
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: Browns in the tower that have always made a study
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: of weather.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: We'll take the bowl to them, like it would be so.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 8: Yeah, they're not needed right now. And that's one of
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 8: those things like I feel like it's longing for to cut,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 8: but I also think they could do it better. And
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 8: that's how I feel. There's a lot of things in
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 8: the translation where of the book, the adaptation from the
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 8: book to the screen that there's going to be conversations
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 8: like do we cut this or do we just make
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 8: it better like Gowa or you know those types of plotline.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 7: Sorry, if they make.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 6: Me like Gowan, I'm going to be still yeah, unacceptable.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 8: He's the best character.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's just mom be is uh Okay.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 9: Are the sea folk the ones I think it's on
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 9: tremelking a bunch of people killed themselves.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: No, that is the people that they live in this
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: weird sort of concert.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 12: With They're the ones who live there.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 8: Are basically the equivalent of the Lost Ones for the Yeah,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 8: they in the same way. So it's like the Tinkers
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 8: for the sea folks, except they take care of them.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 8: They still follow the way.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 7: Yeah wow, the waterway.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: Oh wow.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 9: So I just missed that because I was thinking I
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 9: wasn't remembering properly, but I was like, I mean, theoretically crazy.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 9: Let's say the sea folk were the ones to do
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 9: something like that. It would be great to know their
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 9: backstory and what brought them there, And we don't have
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 9: a lot of stuff like that with the sea folk
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 9: as far as what they care about. Even with the
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 9: Bowl of the Winds, they're like, oh, we know about
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 9: the Bowl of the Winds.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: It would be cool to know why and why it
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: matters so much to them, and.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 9: Just more of like what the sea folk care about,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 9: because with the ideal.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 7: With the Tinkers, we know what they care about.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 9: The seat folk they just love being on boats, which
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 9: you know who doesn't well living.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 6: Out at is that personality trait sea folk.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 9: That's the thing is, like it would be nice to
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 9: see more of like why they're why they care so.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 7: Much, or if they do.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: There's there's so much that just gets left out of
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: their story that is clearly there in the weird erratic culture.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: Eccentricity is that they have. But we don't have any
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: canonical misagy well to be.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 8: Frank, we get we get extensive history on the Ieel right,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 8: like we can date the Iel all the way back
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 8: to the end of the Breaking of the World. We
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 8: actually get a lot of history on Shara, I believe
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 8: or not, it's just interspersed. We get almost nothing on
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 8: the history of the seafolk, like almost nothing, So we
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 8: don't know outside of who they are in the story,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 8: how they got to be who they are. So I
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 8: think that's the other part of it is there's no
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 8: historical depth to their society that we like kind of
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 8: latch onto, like we know more about Menethearin than we
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 8: do like.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, I mean that it's open territory, it.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 8: Is, and I think there's some I think there's some
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 8: fun in that because that would suck me in a
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 8: little bit with them.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I would love it if we got some like
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 9: history from the Age of Legends that's like, this is
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 9: why these people want to live at sea, and it's
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 9: something from like the history of the Wheel of Time
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 9: that shows us why that would be so cool.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Because that is just like yield.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: They got sent out with a bunch of terran Greol
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: like them safe, and that's why they stay on the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: ocean all the.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: Winds.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 8: It's one weather control to on Greel. They used to
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 8: have hundreds of them all over the world. That's just
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 8: one of them. I just I find that kind of cool.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 8: I love the Age of Legends, like this was one
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 8: like regular one, and you guys are treating it like
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 8: it's the most powerful, right.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 7: I have a theory that there's another one power. That's
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 7: because they were sent there in their dream.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: I believe that that makes.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: I would like to see, Uh, technical are you doing, buddy?
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: Stand By good God, I don't think it's broken.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Everything recording talk all about.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 8: While he's gone. So Seth is the biggest end started.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: He's a terrible roommate A during gone, I'm dying.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 6: Are you back? Can you hear?
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: And they he's the worst podcast co host I can
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: protect for a minute, and.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: He's just generally as dog is neither tide nor considerate.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 6: That was pretty cool.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: We were definitely not saying mean things about you.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 7: Let's see, can we can hear you? Can can discord?
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 6: Hear us?
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: Discord? Can you hear us? I think they can. They
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: work lost.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: You didn't broke break that, so the regular broken status
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: that we've had this whole time.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 7: That.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: My thing with the sea folk is that you have
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: all of these really powerful channelers and the dark one
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: breaking the seals up his president escaping is a global problem.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: This is everybody's problem, and like, I know they don't
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: like to get off their boats, but I would kind
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: of like to see the sea folk evolve and sort
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: of make a decision as a nation or whatever to
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: be like we have to go fight with a car
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: a car at the last battle, and now they have
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: these channelers like who will probably worship fast and then
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: they can like blow shit up. Yeah, you know, it's
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: like they're just chilling on their fucking both while the
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: world is ending, and it's like the fuck.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: You are, they're controlling them barkain in order to participate
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: in the apocalypse, We're going to need a bargain to
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: make profit, like what are you for, Rangy like.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: Yash ray Aja.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 8: At the core of this, though, is one of the
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 8: problems that I think they had to address the way
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 8: they did because here's the problem. There are too many
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 8: channelers for the forces of the light. There are too
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 8: many of them. Like if you look at the io
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 8: wise ones, you look at the is said eye, you
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 8: look at the Asherman, you look at the c folk, right,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 8: you have all the novices. There are literally two to
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 8: three thousand channeler that if you don't bring in the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 8: shah Ins or if they make them all super active,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 8: like the battle's over, like they lose. Trelicks lose, Like
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 8: there's just too many.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: Tics, like like a billion billion more trologs.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 6: We watch all of them get roasted.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 8: And that's the only the only rate was competitive is
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 8: because of the sharks. Again we're off topics, So back
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 8: to the sorry folk.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 7: The ill converted channelers were a pretty massive force as well,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 7: the male channelers mail channelers.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 9: Yeah, how many sharens were there in the last battance.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 8: Do we know sharens or are we supposed to be
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 8: talking about that right now? I don't want to go
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 8: there if we're not allowed.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: So well we do, I think, and still the conclusion
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: of the book to get through.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 8: So yeah, that's why I'm like, okay, okay.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: So the other the next major thing I think we
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: should talk about is fine attacking Ran and give.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: This okay, okay, Seth and a radio because.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 9: That fog we're talking about monster fog, right, that's where
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 9: we're monster frog is monster fog? Masha are or a
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 9: bubble of evil because if you look it up online,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 9: a lot of sources will say it's a bubble of evil.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 9: But it sure as hell seems like it has something
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 9: to do with Mashadar.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 7: That's my question.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 6: Wedout it before.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: It does different things from Mahidar, like martial art, just
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: like eats you, and then a monster fog like pust
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: your limbs off and shit you're seeing like body parts
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 4: he left around. I always I always thought it was
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 4: a bubble of evil. It never occurred to me that
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: it would be a marchianar.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 7: It's definitely Machdar, It's definitely.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 8: I've never heard that theory before. Ever, I don't think
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 8: I never thought that was a question.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 9: That that oh I've always I mean, was controlling. Yeah,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 9: but if you look at Mashadar, if you look at
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 9: how Mashadar kills people.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 7: Isn't that mashad is not consistent. He was trying to
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 7: manifest it. He manifested a very particularly physical version of
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 7: it that was a little different, that was eating people.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 7: He was trying and we even get a line from
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 7: one that he tried it once before and he wasn't successful.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 7: The evidence, the evidence for the fact that it was
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 7: a bubble of evil comes from a one off line
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 7: in the Companion that says that uh Hanlin was the
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 7: guy who became you are dead cousin. What's his name?
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 7: The guy who was in charge of the white lions anyway,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 7: the white lions that he's in charge of or killed
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 7: in a bubble of evil, David Hanlin. Yeah, outside with
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 7: that camp, right, And so everyone assumes the bubble of
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 7: evil that killed his his white writers or whatever hiss
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 7: white lions. What the bubble that killed his white lions
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 7: is the monster fonk okay. So, but that is an
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 7: assumption based on a line in a book that I
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 7: don't agree with and that's where that evidence comes from,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 7: like to it wrong.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 9: Yeah, it's good to hear that other people say there's
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 9: no way that's not mahar because that is my initial
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 9: reaction to it. But there is some weirdness with how
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 9: Mahidar kills people in the eye of the world compared
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 9: to what's going on in a cronosaurs.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: I think it's because it has the avatar of fame
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: to like generated well, and keep.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: In mind it's also not just like Fain also absorbed
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: and controls machin Chin like he's a combination.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: Ye, right, he's like a walking the same not from
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: the dark one, right.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 7: He is a distortion of the pattern all on the zone.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: He has abilities and is using them.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: But it's not out of the box shatter logo Maschdar.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: It's like a new and it dissipates, right, it can't
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: maintain forever like he brings he makes another one later.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: So yeah, when Seth and I talked over this and
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: it was that that was a very short discussion.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Information is wrong pain Shadar.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 7: I think it's the reaction like it was in a location,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 7: but Mashar is in a location, right, like it's it
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 7: puts its roots down, like I don't know, And it's
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 7: very clear that Faine leaves the tent. Everyone goes, where's Faine. Oh,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 7: I don't know. He left, and then the fog appears. Yeah,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 7: he's outside generating. Then he attacks Rand, and then he
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 7: attacks Rand in the fall.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: Fain and the Dark One are so opposed. There's no
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: way that Fain is going to work with a bubble
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: of evil that syncret right, That's going to be attacked
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: by it just as much as Rand if it's a
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: bubble of evil, right, So so.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 9: Good good because I always thought the idea that that
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 9: was a bubble of evil was crazy.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 7: But my only counterpoint that I just thought of is
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 7: the fact that the Slash in the pre existing wound
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 7: and Fain in the pre existing bubble of evil is
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 7: kind of a cool parallel. Yeah, but it doesn't.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 5: I just don't buy it. Yeah, and they do.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 8: I'll add another counterpoint to that, they attract each Yeah.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so maybe the bubbles attracted to attract each other.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 8: Well, but then that's how Rand gets the idea to
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 8: cleansed ID.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: But then counterpoint to that is that they can't the
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: same evil right, it's the two different evils. If it
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: was a bubble of evil, it would be the same
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: flavor of evil as is in his first one, because
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: that's the dark one.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 8: No, because Agonor and Othommel say that it was the
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 8: dagger that brought them to the Eye of the World.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 8: That's how they disc That was one.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 7: Part later as well as even the kid and the
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 7: dark friends to find them. They're sensing the dagger and
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 7: being attracted to it.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 8: So there's that evil. And that's actually the idea that
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 8: Rand gets because he creates the funnel and the two
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 8: of them sucked together and he pulls the taint down
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 8: in to shut our logo.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 7: But I thought the Eye of the World was how
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 7: he figured that out too.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 9: No, the fact that men had to die to create
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 9: that part of it.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's part of it.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: See.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 9: I would like to see the show have some kind
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 9: of not interior monologue obviously since the show, but some
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 9: kind of acknowledgment of this is how I came to
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 9: that conclusion, because I do think, like you're saying.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 7: Names, that's a possibility.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 9: I also think the fact that the eye was created
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 9: is a possibility. Maybe it's both things, but I would
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 9: have liked to read in the books, Rand's interior monologue
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 9: of got it, this is what has to be done.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 8: They never give us that with either that or the
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 8: ceiling of the board, just because then they would give
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 8: away the.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 12: Well, no, they did.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 9: They told us men figured it out, men explained it.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 7: It's fine.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I like the To me, it feels somewhat weird
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 8: that scene with Fame. Here's the only part that feels
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 8: weird is Rand's characteristics there. I feel like Rand would
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 8: be less reckless after he just got back from being
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 8: like like it's almost like he feels on top of
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 8: the world for some reason, and I don't know why
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 8: he does.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 7: We talked about, yeah, we talk about as a manic
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 7: depressive face. He goes to this depression and then he
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 7: succeeds with one thing and it makes the thing, and
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 7: he goes to this massive depression where he doesn't bathe
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 7: for a week. He thinks he's raped men, he doesn't
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 7: come out of his rooms. He's just been tortured. And
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 7: then all of a sudden something, all of a sudden,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 7: he yeah, And then he goes to the sea folk.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 7: He finds out that Min loves him. He does this thing,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 7: and he's like, I can do anything. I'm the dragon reborn,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 7: which is such a manic phase after a depressive phase
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 7: that like it's obvious that he's just off the deep
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 7: end in terms of doing crazy shit with no real reason,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 7: just because.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 8: The crazy thing is is he's actually successful, even though
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 8: Fane's Yeah, well, like he destroys their rebellion. Basically he
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 8: converts essentially Darling to his side, like now again it's
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 8: tevere and shit, and then we get to see Kat
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 8: Swayne actually care about, so like, like you know, I
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 8: actually I like that scene. I just wondered. It's like,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 8: you're right. I love the idea that it's a manic
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 8: depressive That makes it make more sense because you would
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 8: think we're more cautious after just being captured.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: I believe that impulsive and reckless behavior are also a
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: symptom or side effect of trauma that.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: Is very much not processing, simply enduring.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know that could be part of the That
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: could be a piece of puzzle as well.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of mental illness
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: stuff that he's dealing with, and then he tavers his
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: way through situations instead of like going to.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 7: Throw whatever that boy needs therapy.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 6: We're in You're ass into a therapist.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 8: Therapy is talking to himself on the top of a
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 8: mountain and almost destroying, so.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 7: It's talking back to him.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: So you know, I mean sometimes you need a good piece.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 7: Well, yeah, I do like that scene though, so oh yeah, no,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 7: I love that scene.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: That scene with fun and terrifying the half a horse
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: right like, it's so scary.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 8: I hope, I hope they don't cut that.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 7: It embodies I love famee Fain is such like a
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 7: good horror character, and that scene is just pitch perfect
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 7: Fame and was such a good setup for the final
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 7: battle for what he could have been and then wasn't.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 9: Absolutely yeah, I'm I am genuinely worried. Every time Thane
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 9: shows up as opposed to the Dark One, it's like
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 9: everything else is literally written out in the pattern. Feign's
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 9: a wild card and when he shows up from like,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 9: what are you gonna do? Buddy, it's not it's not comfortable. Yeah,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 9: it almost. It could have been the end.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 7: Of book seven. It could have been.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 9: I like the stuff with is it Sumitsu who has
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 9: to heal him? And Pat Swain being like, no, you
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 9: did a good job. It's it's fun to see all
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 9: that stuff, but that almost could have been a finale.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 7: And then watched in and you get the aschaman who's
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 7: actually saved his ass.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's sort of one of
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 9: those Fires of Heaven moments where they.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 7: Give us two finales.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 9: I don't remember exactly how late it comes in the book,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 9: but it's intense.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 8: Lynn gets the idea. You know who you can really
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 8: credit for healing Randy.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah, no, no, I don't lay Fer.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 8: Yeah, lamp Feir. She's the one that actually saves his
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 8: life after foam and oh yeah, basically locks it away. Yeah,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 8: that's where he kind of gets the idea just to
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 8: lock it in like rather.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: Than because Flynn then imitates that basically.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 7: And I was gonna say Dashiva because Dashiva gives Flynn
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 7: the idea to learn to heal.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 8: Well, yeah, he gives an the idea to learn to heal.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 8: What I'm saying is on this particular type of healing. Yeah,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 8: Landfeir is the one that actually saved his life. And
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 8: that people don't catch.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 7: It, you know, they don't because she she shows up
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 7: and he's dying and and uh, I believe, isn't it.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 7: They say Ninive must have done something or else he
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 7: would have died. Nine swears she didn't do anything, and
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 7: that's right, she didn't. Landfeer did, and he and Landford
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 7: didn't heal him.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 8: Landfair probably used some type of true power or whatever
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 8: to lock away whatever Shamael did, which is never really defined.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 8: Is that a true power wound?
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 5: I think it is.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 7: Because the darkness boils behind him before he thrusts, it's
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 7: clear that he's striking with the true power.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 9: Yeah, because they always they say those two wounds are
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 9: working against each other. And I always thought it was
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 9: the One Power versus whatever Mastradar is. But now that
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 9: I think about it, listening to this, You're right, it
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 9: wouldn't be the one power. It would be the It
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 9: would be the true power versus whatever Mashadar is.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: There is the essence of the dark One, and Mashadar
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: is the essence of being mad at the dark One.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 5: Right, it's onely reasons.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 7: I don't think we ever see a shaw male or
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 7: more than channel the one Power. I think we only
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 7: ever see him channel the true power.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: Right. No, I think.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 7: The ability to channel the One Power is burned out
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 7: of him by the True Power.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 8: I don't think it's burned out. I just think he does.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 7: I think it is burnt out. I think that's part
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 7: of what the flames are.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 8: Now, because if he was, I don't think it's burnt
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 8: out because random, you know. But I can see your
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 8: point on that, but not to that. But he would
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 8: never use it anyway, because the amount of the True
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 8: power that he can wailed is supposedly on par with
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 8: using the Choden call. Right right, These are like all
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 8: powerful essentially with channeling, except he goes.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: Nuts, right, Like why do you have a cookie when
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: you can have all?
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 5: Start?
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so to speak, I mean speaking as for myself, which.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 8: Again is one other reason, by the way, why the
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 8: Shadow should have won. I could go off on another
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 8: subject on that.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: I think we should at this point turn our attention
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: to just talking over the actual finale of the book,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: which is the attack on Smile and Ilion, which then
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 3: spills over into shot our Logoth and mat Right.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 7: The crossing of the streams and everything other than Belall,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 7: why is Semile the most counter uh not kind of
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 7: productive anti climactic point, anti climactic battle in the whole series.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 15: Because I thought he was still alive, right, because I
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 15: thought he was still alive, and like, the only comparable
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 15: death in the series is Grendall in book twelve, where
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 15: I was like.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 9: She's still alive, and it was like it was that
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 9: same feeling, but he was actually dead.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 7: I guess that was crazy to me.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just no, just my memory didn't Semile get eaten by.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 7: Clear that he got was dead.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: And then Mashadar pours in and he's like, oh, I
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: guess that worked, and it's like and.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 8: Then we don't even really know. And then later Robert
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 8: Jordan confirmed it in a book, signing like that was it.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 9: I think in the books the justification is Rand didn't
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 9: feel channeling, and we in book four Mogetti and escaped
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 9: Nieve by using the True Power to warp away, and
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 9: so it's like we've already been through this where people
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 9: can escape without channeling the one power. So the idea
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 9: that he was dead, it was like, no, no, no, no,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 9: there's no way we would have seen it.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 7: I was shocked when that was like actually canon or
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 7: heard something Laya screamed, yeah, you gotta touch my mask
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 7: at R.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 6: I was just thinking the exact same thing. Why didn't
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 6: you hear him holler?
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 7: You know it just it just got them all at once,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 7: is my assumption. Right, But like the whole thing was crazy.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 7: You look away and like it just it hit every
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 7: like okay, And I think that was Jordan just being like, hey,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 7: because I don't show your body doesn't mean he's dead, right,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 7: Like you can't trust anything like right, yeah, and maybe
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 7: they are really dead this time. You know, you never know,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 7: you know what I supposed to. He did that with
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 7: as Modi into there the you lead. He deliberately left
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 7: cliffhanger and then didn't give us the answer, but.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 9: We knew as Modine was dead. It said something about
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 9: when death.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 7: Definitely yes, yeah, And there was questions to Robert Jordan,
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 7: is death another name for Morgan? Or did he take
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 7: him away and keep him captive? Is that something you're
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 7: doing like.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 5: Questions?
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, I love that.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, No, totally. Is this someone named death? Is it?
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 5: Is it?
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 7: You know rl dimension called death?
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 5: Is it? Is it just the dark one?
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 8: Okay? Coyle, that's another retcon from Jordan when he said
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 8: Grendle did it, because I think truly Demandrad did it,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 8: but just saying.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 9: Rendel that forsaken that I think probably you know, I
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 9: don't know, but if I'm r J, I'm writing the series,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 9: I'm like, this character is becoming more and more interesting.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 9: I'm just gonna sign her stuff because she's the best.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 7: I I feel like that might have happened with Grendall.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 8: Anyways, the ending, I I like the here's the I
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 8: like that Samuel actually put up a fight, and if
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 8: not for Morgan, Rand probably loses, just like he would
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 8: have in all of his other battles. I mean, he
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 8: almost lost to Rovine if not for ninety of showing
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 8: up with Muggidion.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 5: Lost a ball help for like, Rand.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 8: Really doesn't beat anybody, but asmodim, I mean he doesn't,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 8: he doesn't mean.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 4: Anything Mathmonian Like the impression I always had a Mathmonium
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: was that he was just nerved, like there just wasn't
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: a whole lot going on there.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 8: Now the piece I do have a prop with Morden.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 8: Morden could have helped. I mean, if Morden is as
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 8: powerful as he's supposed to be, he probably could have
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 8: eliminated Semio quite a bit easier than played out. But nevertheless,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 8: like the crossing of the bailfire had to happen the
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 8: crossing of the street. I do like the plot element
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 8: of that and like how that kind of creates some
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 8: type of a connection. I think it's kind of cool.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 7: And it gives us a reason later for having more
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 7: than not trying to kill Rand, because he's like, that's
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 7: going to hurt me. You don't hurt him. Like from
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 7: then on forward, he realizes very quickly that the pain
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 7: Rand is feeling affects him. Yeah, and that's why he's
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 7: so angry at some wrong when she burns his hand off,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 7: because she's all like, He's all like, oh, my hand
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 7: is killing me because it's not there anymore.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 8: So the only weird piece with the whole semi a thing,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 8: I felt like we were building up to this, and
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 8: I know this was part OF's plan is to build
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 8: up and make it look like he's going to do
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 8: something badass and wait for Matt and then the whole
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 8: plan is then enter the city and fight Semile individually.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 8: Like I get that, It just I don't know, I
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 8: felt like that didn't play as cool as it probably
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 8: was intended. I don't know, does that make any sense?
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 8: Like I don't feel like the ending felt like as
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 8: triumphant as ran taking this, like the end of the
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 8: Dragon Reborn is like all the things fall into place
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 8: and this really cool thing happens, right, and then you
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 8: get even shadow Shadow Rising is probably bad. The attack
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 8: on Kamelin right, it feels to me a little better.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 8: I felt like this just I don't know, it didn't
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 8: hit the right notes for me in terms of being
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 8: like that was really cool, Like it was kind of blah,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 8: And I feel like this is the one forsaken death
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 8: that I usually forget about, Like I usually forget about
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 8: the ending of that. I don't know if I'm the
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 8: only one that feels that way, but it's just not
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 8: super climacting.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: Exactly like the crossing of the streams is it feeling
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: way more important even though it doesn't get explained or
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 3: have relevance for like books and books, that's the more
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: standout event is the fact that the bail fire streams crossed,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, it's I do like the part
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: where he actually takes like an army of screaming Celldeians
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: into a city. I mean that invasion is great, but
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: then they run off and take the city and it's
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: not even on the screen anything like yeah, Army of Longoles,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 3: like you know, doing their horse bow thing, and and then.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 5: And then he comes back and it's already conquered and
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 5: like here's.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 3: Your city, right, and the Council of Nine is like
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: we surrender, We're good or up. And it's like Rand
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: mostly was running around in a fog, accidentally killing people
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 3: he didn't want to kill, and like having weird quantum
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: dimension mechanics like entangling his soul. Basically, I mean, though
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: we did learn through the podcast, or I have learned
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: through doing the podcast that that's how the body swap
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: makes less total chaos. Like the body swap is because
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: of the crossing of the streams, which is important to
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 3: the end of the series, but also like was one
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 3: of my least favorite parts.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 8: So at the end of the high feel like they
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 8: were trying to not to talk about this, but I
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 8: feel like they were trying to subvert the trope of
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 8: Ran being the chosen one that gives himself up for
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 8: the world. Like I think they wanted to show he
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 8: gave himself up and then he got what he wanted,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 8: and that was in a way subverting the trope. Yeah,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 8: I don't know if it played the way that they wanted,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 8: but I think that was the intent.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: Share.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the bailfire crossing things gives you so
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: many interesting paradoxical questions, like it is really cool to
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: be like, what happens if two people bail fire each
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: other's bail fire streams?
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Then what happens?
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And that's what I think the answer to all
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 7: the questions about bail fire, Like what what would happen
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 7: if you bail fired yourself and someone else bill fired you?
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 7: I mean, I think we have the answer. We have
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 7: basically bailfire, bail firing, bailfire. Okay, I got a question
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 7: show Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 8: Here we go, tough question. I put this on my whiteboard. One,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 8: what happens if you take a dumb and you bail
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 8: fire it?
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 7: Well, you're not bail firing yourself. Depends so it's not
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 7: like it goes up into you.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 8: Does it go back? Does it go back to where
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 8: it was?
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 6: No?
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 7: And how hard you bail fire it? Okay, it might
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 7: turn back into.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 8: Food like a radio thought it was funny. So does
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 8: it turn back into food after you bail fire?
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 6: Maybe you just like.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: Lose the nutrition that you gained from digesting that material.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 7: Okay, so here's the thought. Someone takes a ship, then
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 7: you bail fire them because the ship still the ship
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 7: still or does the ship turn back into food? I
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 7: think everything they ever shat is gone the last.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 8: Leg he answered this question because if that's the case,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 8: we know we know that they wouldn't exist because the
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 8: saliva that landed on Matt didn't igance, So.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 7: None of that digestive gest would have happened. None of
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 7: the digestive processes would have happened. That food would have
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 7: never been masticated. It would it would have just turned
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 7: right back into food.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 8: So what you're saying is I said I should refrain
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 8: from bail firing there.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 5: No, they should refained from bail fire each other.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 7: I mean bailfier in general. Yeah. The microbes in there
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 7: and they you know.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they their threads are gone, I.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 7: Guess, And they probably produced the gas that made you
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 7: far so that you thought.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 8: The watch spoiler's decks would go when we started to.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: Tangents go where they go.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 7: I hope this was the amount of tangential you were expecting,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 7: because we I didn't expect, but.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 4: Go further, I only record a one hour episode tone
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 9: But I always think it's interesting that, like it very
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 9: much seems like if the bailfire streams hadn't crossed, the
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 9: last battle would not have gone down the way it did, Right,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 9: the body switching wouldn't have happened.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: It had to happen.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 9: The bail fire streams had to cross, not just for
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 9: Rand to survive, but for things to happen the way
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 9: they should have happened. What's interesting to me in the
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 9: conversation of bailfire is I would assume the pattern doesn't
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 9: quote unquote know about bellfire because wrong.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I think, no, I like that.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 9: I like that because I think I think the more
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 9: I think about it, it does.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 7: And bailfire is a part of the pattern.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 9: But the way they talk about it, where they're like,
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 9: this is a thing that burns through the pattern, it's like, well,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 9: it's also a thing that the pattern takes into account.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 7: I think that's interesting.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 8: It doesn't necessarily burn through the pattern. It burns threads
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 8: in the pattern, and it burns them out for just
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 8: short so you've got a thread.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 7: So maybe it's just the way I'm thinking of it.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it burns spot.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 8: That's all right, so you ma can weave around the
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 8: spot now, well yeah, and I think I think that
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 8: the one important distinction here, and maybe this is the
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 8: canon answer to why the Shadow can't win, because I'll
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 8: throw out this, you know, this philosophical argument. I don't
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 8: think the Shadow can win because if the wheel turns
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 8: infinitely right, then then technically if if the Dark winning
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 8: breaks the wheel, the wheel would be broken.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 7: That's the nature of So there's only ever one last battle, right,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 7: It's always the same last battle. We see a lot
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 7: of parallel battles happening at the same time, and that's
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 7: just every battle from every turning of the wheel happening
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 7: all at the same time.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 8: So the pattern still controls like like Shamael is still
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 8: subject to the tevere being, like Ran being Teverra like
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 8: the fact like he is still subject because he's in
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 8: the pattern his decision making that keeps him from having
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 8: killed Rand and I of the world when he should have. Right,
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 8: he wasn't able to do it because of whatever stupid
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 8: mentality he had, because the pattern could not allow it. Right,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 8: there's your plot armor for why the Shadow didn't win
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 8: because Taverin. But it's reality though, because I think that's
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 8: the only way to explain it. But yeah, they would
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 8: be subject to Taveran.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 9: I it makes me laugh when a Shamael argues to Rand,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 9: You're gonna lose eventually because the wheel turns infinitely, So
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 9: at some point I'm going to work. You know, the
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 9: dark one will win when the opposite is true what
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 9: you're saying name less like, no, if the wheel turns infinitely,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 9: it would have already happened, so you're wrong. And yet
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 9: if sea Mayel is still at his game.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 8: A general film should be smarter than that if he's
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 8: a like, that's basic philosophy right there.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 7: So yeah, there's an interesting philosophical philosophical discussion that basically says,
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 7: on average, you are in the middle of civilization, right,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 7: most people are born at the peak of civilization, and
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 7: about half is before and about half is after. That
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 7: just randomly is most likely to be true, right, And
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 7: so you can use that to sort of look at
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 7: odds of your civilization dying out in the next hundred
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 7: years and stuff like that, and it's all it's interesting.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 7: It's a little bit pseudoscience and a little bit statistical bullshit.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 8: But so philosophy.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, speaking to my husband, who holds a master's degree
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 4: in philosophy, I'm sure I'm going.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: To have thee down my throat of guess is he unemployed?
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 5: Then?
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 8: Is that what you're saying a joking?
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: But he'll be the first one to make a joke
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 4: about being an unemployed philosopher, So I love it.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: There is an interesting aspect though, to circle back to
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 3: the actual books, about like if does the pattern recognize
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: bailfire that Seth brought up with respect to the body swap,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: which is that because bailfire bailfire's bail fire, the pattern
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 3: ends up confused, confused about who Rand versus Morden is.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 3: And that's why the body swap happens, is because they
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 3: are now attached as the same soul in like the
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 3: filing system of how the pattern keeps track.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 7: Of people threads.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah, Anderson explained this a little bit. Is it's similar
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 8: in one way to the the dark. One can transmit souls.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 8: But Brand wanted to live and Morgan didn't, and so
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 8: the soul that wanted to live moved across the bridge
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 8: between them and the one that didn't died. That was
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 8: how Brandon explained it now, and that was how Jordan
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 8: explained it to Brandon in his nose. So I suppose
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 8: to a degree, I think you're right, but I think
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 8: it was more simple in the sense that they had
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 8: a bridge between their souls. They were connected, and one
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 8: of them wanted to live, so it moved into Mordan's body,
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 8: and Morgan wanted to die the whole time, like that's
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 8: all he wanted was to die. So he went and
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 8: died and that was that. But again, the bailfire hitting
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 8: each other made that possible because that's what technically connected
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 8: their souls.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 5: I was gonna say, Brandon explained why, but not how?
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 5: Right? And how is the bailfire h a pattern?
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: And entanglement? Time travel paradox?
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 8: There's so many of it. I mean the series does
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 8: borderline on sci fi. Oh yeah, there's a lot of
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 8: sci fi elements.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 3: For sure, kind of like how Dune is almost more
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: fantasy than sci fi, Like there there, what is this boundary?
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: It's not a solid boundary, It's a fuzzy boundary.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 5: That's the in and yang of fiction.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: I'll take that.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 8: I'm excited for Dune, Oh yeah, i am.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 7: Although I'm I will admit I want to get past
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 7: the first book. I think the second and third book
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 7: more interesting.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 5: She lose me.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, persactly cut out for that robot comment.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 7: Ok, I'm talking about that, you know, I was saying,
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 7: I'm more excited about the sequels. I think that the
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 7: second and third book of Dune are much more interesting.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: They are. I've only read the second one. I haven't
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: gotten to the third one.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 8: Well, they're really cutting the I mean this is only
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 8: half the first book. So like the first, this movie
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 8: is literally just the half. I think they're going to
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 8: stop once the harconin.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 3: I think they're going to stop with the Fears of
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 3: the mind Killer portion.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: Basically, yes, damn sure.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 8: So like I don't think we're going to see the
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 8: whole retaking of the irakus so by the Freemen. I
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 8: think that's the beginning of the next movie. So but
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 8: Dennis Film, I always screw up his name. He's amazing.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 8: The visuals look great, and look, the bar is not
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 8: high considering the last movie was You. I didn't actually
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 8: see the mini series, so I thought they did a
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 8: good job. Like that's the thing is, like, I I
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 8: think it's underappreciated. Brian, have you read her.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 12: I have not read Zoon.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: Have you seen movie at least?
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 9: No, I would not watch I would, I would read
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 9: it for Okay, that's my jam.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 6: I have husband made me watch it. I didn't pay attention.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 8: I mean another movie is terrible. I mean, actually, I
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 8: take that back. The other movie is terrible, but in
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 8: a compelling terrible way.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: I can't be.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 8: Yeah, like, I love that.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: I know it's good.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 5: I like that. It's got Colassic written all over.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 8: Think about this exactly. I'll give you an example. And
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 8: if they decide to do loose theren or they decide
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 8: to do not loose thereon. But like all the inner
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 8: monologue from the Wheel of Time, if they just have
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 8: the characters read it out loud as an echo while
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 8: they stand there silently, So think like Parent's inner monologue,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 8: Marcus is reading it while Parent sits there silently and
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 8: stares at fail.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 7: It sounds like wheel talk. I love, I love I
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 7: love that.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 9: As long as it's done for humor, I love can
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 9: definitely humor. Yeah, so then as long as it's done
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 9: intentionally to make me laugh, I'm so into that.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 8: But yeah, the story's great. I think you would like
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 8: it now. I definitely think Robert Jordan took some inspiration. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 8: I mean yeah, this is what.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: I read Dune was after I read We All a Time person,
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: I'm like space ieel what ye? And then I realized
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: that relative publishing orders and I realized that the Iel
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 3: are actually fantasy fremen but whatever.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 8: Yes, yes, that's actually very derivative.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: But extremely extremely It's like noble warriors in the desert
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: with the strong honor code. Then we're Shufas, yeah, and
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 3: have an obsession with water like it just it keeps going.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 3: And the blue eyes technically blue eyes for different reasons,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 3: but still and.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 8: They're not from there, yeah, like they're right, they're in exile.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: And then and then you have the mysterious order of
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 3: long lived magic women that everybody hates in mistrust but
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: also at the center of government.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 8: That's probably the most direct.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: And the name even sound the same eyes to die
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 3: Ben at Jazzert. It has the same like number of beats.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 8: It's very derivative, although it's not the same after that,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 8: but it just it is very derivative.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 7: No, I don't think anyone can look at what Jordan
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 7: came up with and can't point to pre existing books
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 7: like Lord of the Rings and he didn't draw a.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 8: Lot of windows, didn't come out. It's October, right, where
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 8: is it? When is it coming out?
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 7: The move?
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 5: Well, well, we're not up on that. I think it's no.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 8: Here's the reason I'm asking what. It just worried me.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 8: I was just thinking about this. Are people going to
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 8: see that movie and then see The Wheel of Time
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 8: and think, gosh, this is just like stealing from every.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 6: When it drops October twenty second?
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 8: Well, it is what it is.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 9: Yeah, they'll they'll be fine. They're going to see Wheel
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 9: of Time and get it.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: Wheel of Time is such It's The beautiful thing about
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: whel of Time is that it is creative. It's like, hey,
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 3: you know the world that's pretty cool, isn't it. It's
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: like that's kind of was his approach to writing. I
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 3: was like, I like a bunch of stuff that exists.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna shake it all up and throw it back
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 3: at you, and it's like, wow, you were inspired by
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: the world instead of making something up whole cloth. I
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 3: find most fantasy now feels very you know, like how
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 3: in futuristic sci fi all the sets are like empty
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: and there's just nothing. The houses have no furniture, there's
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: no like trinket, there's nothing. And then you go into
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 3: like a period piece, even like a mid century period piece,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 3: and like there's extra.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: Clocks and piles of laundry and all that detail. Most fantasy,
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 3: Feels like that futuristic, Like there's just not a lot there,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 3: Like I made pretty colors in one spot, whereas Jordan
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 3: is like a period with all the background details and
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: sets because he drew on the real world and just
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 3: added a couple of frills and rearrangings, but he used
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 3: the real context of the real world to like in.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 7: I have one more question, How are you guys approaching
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 7: November nineteenth and three episodes dropping? And what is basically
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 7: the middle of that? Confirmed?
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 7: That three episodes? Ye, yep, absolutely fantastic.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 7: Are you are you going to try and and do content?
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 7: Are you going to like try and record one by one,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 7: you know, do watch one record on it? Are you
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 7: going to try and stretch that out over period of
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 7: time or dump everything all at once? I'm mostly pointing
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 7: this at you.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 8: Are my answers public? I will basically for the podcast.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 8: I'm assuming we'll just do what we do because.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 6: For the podcast, I'll be screaming for.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: The channel right when it opens or like the next morning,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 3: like because like I don't know if I'm going to stay.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 6: I can take time off work, right.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: Like I want to respond properly, like be functional. Three
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 4: I think that I'll wait until like normal daylight hours
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 4: to watch. I haven't decided if I'm going to do
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 4: all of them in one day or if I'm going
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 4: to do like a day in between. But I think
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 4: because Rich wants to watch it too, so I need
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 4: to watch it first to do my reaction video because
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 4: that's what my channel is supposed to be, and then
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna watch it again with him.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 5: So I don't know.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 6: It could go either way. It could be a whole
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 6: day of like binging it.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 4: Doing a video, binging it doing a video.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 6: I might get tired.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 6: I haven't decided I'm going to play about your.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 9: Good thing about my channel is I feel very good
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 9: about the content I put out.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 7: I'm very proud of it, and still no one watches it.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 9: So the crazy thing about the show coming out is
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 9: like I'm just I'll probably try something different since nothing's
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 9: worked so far, but I'm not worried about it because
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 9: no one watches my show anyway, So.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 7: I'm just going to try different things.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 9: Be excited, and I will after the trailer, I will
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 9: probably be a little bit more.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 7: I'll post more reaction stuff.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 9: I did most of that on social media and then
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 9: realized after that I can just post that on YouTube
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 9: and that counts as a video, So I'll probably do
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 9: that next time.
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 4: Like I got like over three thousand views on my
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 4: reaction video, I usually get like.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 7: Yours.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 9: Hey, that's what I'm saying, Like, so yeah, I'm going
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 9: to keep trying new things, you know, and I'm not
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 9: stressed over it, souse.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 7: I'm just excited for the show.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 9: And it's not like I had any followers to lose, So.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, I still don't know what we're going to do,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 3: Like we've talked about it, and it's like, I mean,
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: I know that I want to watch it by myself
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: without a camera the first time, like that first Virginal
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 3: watch is going to be just me.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: And my feels.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: But I think we're going to have to like then
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: watch it and react to it like pretty quick, like
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 3: watch it together like second third pass and like talk
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: it through, but yeah, are we going to do it?
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 7: And day?
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 3: Are we going to do one per day? Like, because
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 3: I don't want us to get like exhausted and dead
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 3: by the third episode. But I also want to produce
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 3: the content really fast because I know I'm going to
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: binge all three the first time. I'm not going to
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 3: be able to hit stop like that will not be
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 3: an option. But as far as producing content like that,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: that's a lot more work than just absorbing well.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 7: For your show.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 9: Like, I would be interested weeks later in going to
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 9: watch a watt spoilers breakdown of a television episode, even
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 9: if it doesn't feel like you've put it out.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 7: Right after the episode posts.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 9: For me personally, i'd be like, I want to see
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 9: what they have to say about this because I know
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 9: they're going to break down in detail spoiler wise what
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 9: all this means.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 7: Or maybe that's a separate video.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 9: I don't know, but I would watch those videos weeks
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 9: later after it comes out because I like what you
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 9: do as far as like breaking down the spoilers.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 7: I mean, I think we may have to do both, right,
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 7: I think I may we may have to do just
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 7: like the sort of instinctual reaction videos, like we'll watch
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 7: it a first time by ourselves, then maybe get together
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 7: and watch it again and do a sort of a
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 7: reaction like this.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 12: Is screaming about it.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 7: Oh my god, this is this is our first impressions
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 7: before we see the rest of the episodes, and then
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 7: maybe we come back to it and do a like
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 7: breakdown of five hour breakdown.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 8: Yeah again, depending on a couple of factors. My plans
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 8: are I'm never the first and I'm not much of
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 8: a reaction video person, so I will probably not Gosh,
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 8: I have to be. I have to tiptoe on the list.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 8: I will be doing analysis videos, and then I have
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 8: a couple of different tracks that I'm going to take
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 8: in terms of episodes and the way I break them down,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 8: So I'll do a recap episode. I'll do a breakdown
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 8: like my breakdown of the trailer video, although I have
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 8: no idea how I'm gonna My trailer breakdown video is
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 8: twenty seven minutes long, and that was far.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 5: It was an hour and a half.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 8: Well for a video where I'm analyzing each frame, you
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 8: know what I mean. Like I'm wondering how I'm gonna
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 8: do with the show. But we'll figure that out. But
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 8: then there are other things like what's changed Easter eggs little.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 8: I mean, there are things that can be content that
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 8: can be created. Three episodes at once is a challenge,
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 8: there's I think people will still be interested in seeing
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 8: the breakdowns on an episode by episode basis. Uh, it
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 8: just may not be. I mean, I may have to
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 8: work over time to get those out fairly quickly. That's all.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 8: That's about all. I'll stay right.
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: Just a goal tangle that they've handed us three at once.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 6: Yes they have.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 7: That's what I was really hoping for a November fifth
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 7: week by week drop drop put it finished one at
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 7: a time. But yeah, it would have been ideal for us.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 7: Yes they did, they didn't listen. I think that is
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 7: about it to wrap it? Are we good to call
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 7: it it quits? And I want to say thank you
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 7: ever so much to Trolling after Dark as a unit,
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 7: to coming out and hanging out with us for this
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 7: Tangents episode. Y'all are great, Thanks for having thanks for
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 7: having us.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: It was really fun to talk with you all on
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: our show. For sure.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 3: Can I just say lasts you made very good Tangents were.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 7: Very tangent them.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 9: I just wanted to point out before we bounce from
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 9: Current of Swords watching Seth has in the background, uh,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 9: Crowd of Swords cover, and I just want to say,
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 9: if that's supposed to be ranmed, God, does he look good?
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 9: You know, Like, what a great cover, what a fierce
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 9: picture of shot her logo making.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: Sure suns out guns.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 12: I truly can't.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 9: This is the craziest picture on the cover of Crown
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 9: of Swords.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 7: It's crazy anyway.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 9: I just wanted to say that before about because like,
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 9: what is going on?
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 4: What is the muscle that's like underneath his tricep. It's
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 4: like he got.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 6: An extra muscle.
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he's got three muscles in his upper arm.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 5: One of the.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: Way he's ripped.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 7: He's got a show.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that's attended. Man weird, his arm looks weird.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you guys so much for coming. This
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 3: has been an absolutely fabulous thing, and yeah, for our
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 3: live audience. We are going to again be off until
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 3: Spoiler Con, which is the first weekend of October, and
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 3: then will be making episodes like normal through Path of
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: Daggers until the show drops in on November nineteenth, at
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 3: which point we will be pausing regular book content and
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 3: being on to the show until that's done.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of the plan. But you guys are
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: going to.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 3: Not get any of us until October starts from from
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 3: this point.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 7: On, and if we time it right, we should do
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 7: episode four hundred the week before the show comes out.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we kept it. That should be the way it goes.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, very excited.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 7: All done? All right, Well I'm gonna turn recording off.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 7: Thank you so much. Well do you guys, where can
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 7: we find tarbal f tell us your individual or your
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 7: individual projects.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 4: You can find tarmelan after Dark, uh, wherever you get
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 4: fine podcasts. We're everywhere, our asses everywhere.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 5: Nice.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 4: You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at tarmel
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 4: and Dark.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 6: Do you do that?
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 4: We post little clips of our commercials and then ship
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 4: is funny.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 6: We think we're.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 7: Funny fan pastic there.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 8: Our podcast is different for sure, I mean we're we
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 8: do discussion stuff, but like mostly we do like comedy.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 6: Bits and yeah, yeah, comedy.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: It's hilarious. I love it.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 9: Honestly, if you don't know what we're talking about, you
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 9: have no business not listening.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 7: You need to get on. It's matter with you it's
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 7: not a podcast, but it's not.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: Not a right, it's not a podcast, but it's not
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: not a podcast.
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 9: You don't have to listen to it, but you don't
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 9: not not have to listen to it.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: Also heard that Naples only likes people who like that podcast.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 8: I I literally hate everybody. But if you become a
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 8: patron of ours, I like you.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 7: It's even more selective than what you heard.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 5: And you apparently will breed with the patrons.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 8: Well yeah, no, I yeah, I will bear their children
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 8: because when the science allows, I'll have your children.
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 5: I mean.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 8: And it's that it's that kind of love, it's that
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 8: kind of sacrifice. That's what we do for our patrons
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 8: of Tarball after Dark seth. I don't know what the
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 8: hell you guys do for your patrons.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 5: Not that enough, don't that's.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 7: Not true dedication like us.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right, right, right.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 6: And true dedication is Brian, we're not having any money.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 7: Maybe we respect Nameless's dedication.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: And you all you're sorry.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 3: We each have your own podcasts as well as having
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: this collaborative uh that you each have your own content
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: that you make impressive, that you have a joint project
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 3: and solo projects.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 6: I don't well a solo project, so.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: No lives either.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 7: So yeah, all right, I do Wheell talk with their
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 7: cap is to Die.
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 9: I get into drag and do crazy real time things
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 9: if you want to check that out anyone listening.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 4: It's amazing and hilarious and if you're not walking it,
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 4: you're a dick.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 9: Dude, I'm an insane person. You should take advantage of it.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 8: Well, honestly, I would say this Brian because Brian will
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 8: be jokes about not getting it. Brian is the most
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 8: underrated YouTuber out there, Like, legitimately, the stuff is hysterical
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 8: and it's.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: Important, like it's great opinions, even though he's wrong a lot.
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I love our last episode was the first time
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 9: we were like, no, that's not how this show is
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 9: going to go, and I got so excited about it.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 7: I was like, this is the first time I make
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 7: it to argue with people about this anyway.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 8: But yeah, no, Like Bryan, stuff is amazing, and I
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 8: do stuff on YouTube too. I have been making YouTube
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 8: content for three years now.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 10: Coming up when you congratulation, heycle and your channel is
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 10: whatlessless Yes, beautiful.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 7: You can that title from the show what's that you
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 7: can't on the name list from the show.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 5: No one else pulled that one out from under you.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 5: That was good.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 8: Hey, I was like, I was like the second YouTube Daniels,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 8: so like I had first tips on names.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 6: So nice, you nailed it. I also have a YouTube channel,
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 6: It's called Amberlin Study.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 4: I do reaction videos, although I don't do them as outanization.
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I also have been doing along of the
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 4: audio books and do reaction to that. While I do
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 4: count acrosstache, I call that stitch and bitch, I haven't
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 4: done one of those in a while.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 6: But yeah, everyone suddy.
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 3: So yeah, welcome everybody to Tangents of Chaos, the episode
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 3: of what Spoilers in between Lord of Chaos and Crown
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: of Swords. I decided to kick Seth out for this
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 3: episode also and invite in four other podcast creators or
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 3: content creators so that we could do something a little
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 3: different than we've done in prior books, where we just
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 3: literally talk about our lives and occasionally the book.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: I actually wanted to do something a little more focused.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 3: Because there's eight and a half million billion podcasts and
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: other channels out there making content and I thought it
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 3: would be fun for us to talk about our craft
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 3: together because that would be super meta space.
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: It was my thoughts.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 3: So I guess we should start with introducing everybody. So
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: we have Ess of the Ombrelin Study YouTube show. I
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 3: don't know if you're doing that as.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: A just YouTube, that's correct, just YouTube, okay, cool.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 3: And we've got Brett from the Wheal Weaves who's been
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: on before and yeah double booked for being on two
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: podcasts and chose to come here.
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 16: Running back and forth here, so that's okay, which is great.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 3: And we have Joe Frome talker Ron Riod back yet again,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 3: Hello again and see you because we're doing video for
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 3: the first time.
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: And then also we've got Morgan of Podcasts of the
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: Drag and.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 3: You've all heard before and hopefully have listened to her
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: amazing tangenty wonderfulness is out there in the topical world.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 8: Yeah, that's the.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 3: Lineup, and we're going to try to talk about how
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 3: to approach the Lord of Chaos, major story beats, issues
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 3: that you have to deal with, where the hell osungarn
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 3: R and garfit into everything, all the important questions.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: So I thought maybe you guys.
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 3: Could all introduce yourselves quickly, and I could stop nervously
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 3: over talking.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 12: Who's going first?
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 6: How about I wasn't paying attention.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: How about Jess? How about you kind of introduced yourself.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 6: Oh and you're okay.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 4: Hello, I'm Jess, your ambulance seat from the Amberlin Study.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 4: It is a wheel of Time reaction channel. I have
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 4: no idea what I'm doing, but I'm having a good time.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 4: Supposed to say anything else, No, I'm trying to make
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 4: this like quick mailed it.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: I'm got a running home.
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 6: My zoom window is big. I don't know why what happened?
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 6: Not my waned.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 8: Brett, Yeah, for sure, I'll go next.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 16: So I'm Brett from the Wheel Weaves podcast and I
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 16: do the podcast with my wife Danny, who is a
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 16: first time reader. So we are one hundred percent spoiler
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 16: free up to the chapter that we're talking about. And
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 16: we're currently in the middle of The Shadow Rising, one
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 16: of the best books of the series, so really exciting. Yes, yeah, yeah,
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 16: nice jure.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 5: Hey, I'm Joe Perry. I am from the Takararandriod podcast.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 5: It's me and two of my friends, Tom and Jen.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 5: We focus mainly on the production of the television show,
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 5: and we talk about all the news and upcoming you know,
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 5: things that are released and anything anyone can find. And
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 5: we love to speculate on what they're what they're doing
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 5: with the show and what you know, we like to
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 5: talk about different topics and you know, what's going to
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 5: be cut, how they're going to change things, and all
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 5: kinds of crazy stuff like that.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 3: That's that's fun because that's so different from what most
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 3: of us are doing. The show content is still pretty
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 3: not as common. It'll get more common.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 12: And work in Okay. I host podcasts of the Dragon,
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 12: and it's an empathy driven podcast with a topical literary
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 12: analysis bent. So I focused kind of on an exploration
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 12: of character relationships, individual character deep dives, examining psychology of people,
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 12: looking at different scenes and plots and themes and stuff
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 12: like that. And I am kind of going through the
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 12: books but mostly just to kind of glean content and
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 12: kind of take the story you know, as it goes.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 8: But it is full spoiler.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 3: Like how yours bounces around very like you know, so
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 3: many of these they go all from start to to
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 3: the end. So you can either go to wherever they're
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 3: at currently or you can start at the beginning yours.
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: It's just like any episode could be anywhere.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, you can basically start anywhere with mine, and
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 12: the episodes are you know, if you are familiar with
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 12: the series, you can listen to anyone and it's fine.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm really glad that you guys were all willing
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 3: to come back to the podcast and.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: Chat about stuff altogether.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 6: Yes, Jess, I forgot something that I wanted to say.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: Oh yes.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 4: The things that I'm reacting to are with what on
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 4: Prime stuff they get dropped, and I will be reacting
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 4: to the TV show when it comes out.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 6: But I'm also doing.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 4: Read along reactions with the audiobooks starting from the Eye
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 4: of the World, and I am doing acrossed it to Will.
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 4: I do it because I have to keep my hands busy,
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 4: and I call it stitching bitch, and it's kind of
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 4: it's really good.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 12: It's great.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 5: Oh so what are you What are you stitching right now?
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 6: I'm stitching a little sampler. This is like.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 4: Something about friends never being far apart in their hearts
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 4: or something like that. I'm going to probably pivot to
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 4: some subversive stuff with swear words in it.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 6: Next project.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: It's very cats, I love you.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 6: Oh, that's hard on the Grammy activities.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 8: That's tough.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 3: I only watched the first one of yours, but I yeah,
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 3: I loved the conversational thing where it's just running in
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 3: the background and then you kind of.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: Like break in to like just laugh at it, like yeah, it's.
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 6: Very gauly positive to go on a tangent like.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 12: Well, she stops and like pulls her needle through and
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 12: then looks at the camera and makes some kind of
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 12: snarky comment, and it's just fabulous.
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 8: It's great theater.
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 6: Oh, I'm having a good time with it.
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 4: I've never done anything with YouTube before, and I'm just like, Okay,
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 4: I guess we're doing this now, so let's see what happens.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 6: Nice.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been thinking about doing YouTube, both with Lots
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 3: Spoilers and with Broken Earth, and maybe I'm going to
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 3: start a third podcast because I don't have enough content
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 3: creation to do. And then you went and did the
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 3: YouTube thing, and I'm just like, man, that seems like
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 3: a cool medium.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very different, but it's cool. I mean, I
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 4: know people are going to come for me the comments.
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 4: I'm dreading people coming for me in the comments, but
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 4: I'll just light them up.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: I don't give a shit.
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 5: Hey, with YouTube, it doesn't matter what the comment says.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 5: It's good if you got them.
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 4: That's true, and you still looked at it, you dumb
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 4: it you.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 12: I'm going to start doing stuff on YouTube too, because
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 12: I don't have guests on my show because it's not
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 12: designed for that. But I figure it would be good
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 12: to branch out and do occasional YouTube streams where I
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 12: can have people on to do more, you know, discussion
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 12: oriented stuff. So if that seems like a great way
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 12: to break out and do some other kinds of content.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 12: So YouTube has lots of possibilities. Maybe talk to some
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 12: of you lovely people at some point.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 5: Maybe I'm in right on.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I had this in my list,
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: but for some reason.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 3: I had this idea that we should talk about what
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 3: has happened to us since May of twenty twenty.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: And I don't remember why I put.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 7: That is there.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: Honestly I love that.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 16: Yeah that's fantastic because you were saying that the last
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 16: time you did a Tangent episode I think was right.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Tangents of Heaven. Yeah that's why.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, what happened since May for all of us,
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 3: since the last time we did this, even though none
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 3: of you were here for the best time I did this.
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 16: Yeah, because when I first read it, I was done.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 16: I'm having like horrible flashbacks in the last like eight months.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 13: Well, we've all been locked in our homes still.
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna say I can tell you what I haven't done,
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 6: and that's leave my house.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 12: Uh, well, I launched my podcast last May, so I've
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 12: gone through two of the Wheel of Time books. Lost
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 12: my job, the Pacific Northwest was on fire. It's it's fine,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 12: I don't mind. It's more time to create content. And
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 12: you know, it's like that they're better off without me, probably,
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 12: And yeah, just generally, I don't know, managed to kind
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 12: of fall on my feet, and I'm generally decent at
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 12: making attitude adjustments when things go shitty. And they couldn't
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 12: have picked a better year to lose my job, because
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 12: at that point it was just like another check off
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 12: on my twenty twenty bingo cards.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 8: I was like, Oh, this too, Okay, what else you xpecting?
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, bron, I guess if you're going to lose your job,
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 5: that was a good time to lose your job with
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 5: the extra unemployment benefits. That's all.
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 13: That's all I can turn that into.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 12: Really, it was just like I'm like, this is an opportunity.
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 12: I can take some time to learn how to do
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 12: a whole bunch of stuff. So you know, I just
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 12: figured out how to make multiple things on my windows
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 12: because I didn't know how to use a computer before,
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 12: and I've learned some shit.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 16: So yeah, are you guys all in the States? Is
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 16: there really American here? Yes, Okay, I'm Canadian. I'm the
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 16: only Canadian then awesome, Oh yeah.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 4: Right from Wisconsin, so I'm basically that's pretty close.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 16: That's like you're like honorary Canadians.
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: I'll give that no, because I was going to say
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 2: cause I also Canadian.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 16: I lost my job too because I got like the
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 16: temporary layoff because a little bit, but then I got rehired.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 16: But Canada had our Kerbert Sir benefit set up, so
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 16: everybody got like money, well they were laid off no
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 16: matter what.
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 17: So it kind of center country cares about its people.
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 16: So yeah, it's like to a moderate extent, like it's
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 16: worse than others. But yeah, yeah, but I also had
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 16: a baby, have my second kid, so that's exactly.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 16: So now she's four months old, a couple of days past,
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 16: so yeah, yeah, so I just don't sleep anymore.
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 2: I've heard you don't need sleep like after.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 16: It's true, you just get to that like healthy medium
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 16: where it's like four or three hours you're good, doesn't matter.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 5: Oh that's crazy, I might. My days have been like
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 5: I can't even tell you what happened. Every day for
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 5: me is exactly the same, like yeah, from me until now.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 5: I don't think anything is different for me. Like I've
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 5: been working from home since March, and you know, I've
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 5: been lucky to you know, still be able to work
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 5: and work from home. But it's it's nothing's different for me.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 5: It's weird. It's just like every day is the same thing.
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 5: It's all starting to blur together for me. So that's
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 5: what happens when you don't leave your house really often.
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 6: M I left my house and that's worry.
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 4: Go ahead, Ah, I was gonna say. I have also
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 4: been working from home since March. Actually, I think this
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 4: week marks one year of our office being closed down
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 4: and everybody being remote.
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 5: So yeah, I'm close. I think I got into the
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 5: week or two before I hit that anniversary.
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, the days are kind of blend together
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 4: for me too, you know, needing to like making content
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 4: helps to break it up, Like you know, you record
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 4: on I tried to record on a certain day. At
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 4: this point, I'm so fucking busy because I decided to
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 4: go back to school because I'm a few.
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 6: Credits short of my bachelor's degree. So I'm back in
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 6: school doing that, working full time.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 4: And then I said, why not start a YouTube channel,
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 4: and then I might have another collaboration thing happening with
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 4: some other people. And then I'm on the spoiler con
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 4: committee and all the sudden, I have a bunch of
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 4: stuff to do and I'm.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't even leave the house.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 6: How did that happen?
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 4: But I think the biggest thing is that my husband
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 4: and I decided that we are going to adopt oh
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 4: making of Babies, and so we got our home study
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 4: application submitted and we're in the.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 6: Process of doing the paper chase situation.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 4: Where we have to like they're doing the background check
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 4: and we have to get like a physical and have
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 4: like a thing where it's like, here's how we'll get
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 4: out of the house if.
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 6: There's a fire, and oh, safety and other shit like that, So.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 13: A physical that's a weird thing to like, I would.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 4: Well, they probably want to make sure we're not going
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 4: to die if they give us a baby, Like that's true.
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 5: That's true. Some congratulations, that's amazing, super exciting things.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 6: We're really excited.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 4: My husband was actually adopted as a baby, so this
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 4: is a like a near and dear kind of thing
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 4: to both of us, so.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 6: We're really excited.
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it's awesome.
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I left my house in the ultimate way in
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 3: that I bought a house and moved.
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 5: Got so excited.
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my husband finished school in June and we realized
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 3: that we weren't going to be able to stay in
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 3: town and let me finish my black belt and do
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 3: all this other stuff we were going to do.
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: So it's like, well, I guess we're just going to.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 3: Move out to the country and leave college town behind
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 3: a few years earlier than we planned. And yeah, I
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 3: bought a house out in the country. So now I'm
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 3: podcasting with almost as good an internet from the middle
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 3: of nowhere, and.
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 16: Already, can I be honest with you, You posted a picture
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 16: a couple of days ago, and I just absolutely hated
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 16: it because it was so sunny and nice out and
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 16: in Canada right now there is so much snow in
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 16: the backyard. I was just like, I can't believe this
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 16: is the same time of year and you get nice
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 16: weather and I'm like trudging through snow right now.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 6: Have a bunch of it on.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 4: The ground too, Come on to you, agrees, It's like
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 4: we had so much of it, like probably almost two feet.
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 16: Like when I first looked at the picture, it was like,
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 16: this can't be recent, Like I don't know what, maybe
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 16: last summer or something, but yeah, it.
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: Was gorgeous here the last few days. All the cold
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 2: like rain came in today.
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 3: Like I was hanging out socially distanced with a friend
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 3: listening to a lecture today they came over to use
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 3: our internet and it was so cold.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: And damp and just like gray and drizzly and rainy.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: Off right on.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 5: It was.
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 2: Those few days of sun were such a balm.
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 12: Yeah, to be fair, we got like five days of
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 12: sun all winter a radio I were both in Oregon
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 12: and we don't get very much.
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the other big change, sorry, go ahead.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 5: No, I just said that's rough. I was sympathizing.
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then yeah, the other big change for me
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 3: was coming into the podcast. That's That's the other really
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 3: relevant change for me in the last year is going.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: From frequent guests to co host.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 16: That's like a VFD though. That's pretty awesome.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 3: It's like and then, like Jess, you know, like I
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 3: turn around and suddenly I'm in charge of the Spoilericon Committee.
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 3: I have two podcasts, one of which I'm neglecting. I
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 3: really want to start a third one. And like, I'm
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 3: not even employed, like I'm in I'm happily unemployed and
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 3: not needing to look for work, but suddenly I have.
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 16: It sounds like that stet guy just stuck you with
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 16: a bunch of jobs. Like where is that guy?
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 6: I know? Here? I love this.
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: But here's the wild thing.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 3: So when I was in school, I had my only
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 3: job ever was working at the library there and I
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 3: was making like four hundred bucks a month, which was
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 3: awesome because it was like coffee money, and I got
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 3: to play with books and listen to audiobook and listen
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 3: to podcasts, which is great. I'm making more money now
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 3: as a podcast than I ever did.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 2: This is literally the highest job I've ever had.
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 5: Oh wow, that's exciting.
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I have the financial privilege to not have
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 3: needed more jobs.
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 5: But still, when I started my first job, the minimum
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 5: wage was like four dollars and twenty five cents.
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 6: Funny that I was.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 4: That's what I was making washing dishes at the MCA
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 4: camp when I was like sixteen.
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yep, that's I was like, wow, not much better.
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 16: See, my minimum wage was like six bucks, but that's
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 16: Canadian dollars, so like, I don't even know how to
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 16: convert it back then.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 8: Well you're younger too.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 12: I got a job at the baby yeah, at the
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 12: VA hospital, and it was great because it was more
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 12: than minimum wage and I made like five eighty one
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 12: an hour, which was weird, but it was like it's
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 12: not four to twenty five or whatever it was at
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 12: the time. So yeah, so everybody had a decent dish
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 12: here all things considered.
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: No major parts fell off.
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, win still here.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 6: Like I can't complain I have a job.
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 4: My husband got laid off, but we're financially stable enough
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 4: that he can wait to find a job he actually
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 4: wants instead of just applying for whatever. You know, that
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 4: was a hard concept for him to like grasp. I'm like, no, babe, serious,
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 4: if you don't want the job, don't apply for it,
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 4: like you don't have to do that, and don't take
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 4: the first offer that you get, like get a job
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 4: you want. We're fine, which is weird for both of
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 4: us because we were broke for a long long time.
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 4: So yeah, it's been really nice. Like family is all healthy, Like.
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not bad.
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 8: Well good.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I still haven't managed to bowling my waterer into
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 3: letting me get a dog. That's my my real big failure.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 5: Oh, I got a cat. That's that's probably the one
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 5: thing that happened. I got a cat during this whole thing.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 5: That's about it.
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 13: That's that's the one change I think that I've had.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 2: We got a cat.
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 13: Her name is min Farpa.
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 5: I got to name the cat that kids named their
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 5: guinea pigs. I was like, I'm naming the cat.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 8: That's great, that's fantastic.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 5: And she's awesome. Yeah, she's great.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 6: Yay. Cats are fun.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 5: She's good. She like, uh, she hangs out and like
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 5: lies on the couch here while I'm working, And when
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 5: I go upstairs when it works over, I'll sit down
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 5: and she just like comes over and just plops right
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 5: on top of me and lies on me, So we
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 5: got we bond.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: That's nice.
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 6: But you do with radio, you just go to like
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 6: the Humane Society.
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 4: You can go get one, yea shelter, don't get the
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 4: one you fall in love with.
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 6: Get your dog, bring it home and be.
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 8: Like it's done.
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 6: You're gonna make are you gonna make me look like
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 6: an asshole?
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 4: And take this dog back to the Humane Society doesn't
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 4: have anymore like.
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 5: The Shelter by Me. The Shelter by Me didn't. It
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 5: doesn't even charge any adoption fees. It's free, so they
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 5: just give you the cat.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nice, real nice, that's super awesome. Well we've been
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 3: putting around for twenty minutes, should we uh get into
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 3: the content?
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 16: Sure, you didn't say we were going to try to
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 16: do this, so like let's let's give it a college
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 16: try here.
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: College try.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 6: So yeah.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: I thought that there's a lot a lot.
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 3: Happens in this book just from a plot perspective, Like
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 3: I was flipping through the book and looking at all
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 3: the plot points and just being like, wait, also that,
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 3: and also that, and also that.
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: Like on and on on.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 3: It's I think it's almost like shadow rising levels of
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 3: plot dense even though it doesn't feel like it if
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 3: you actually added all up, it does.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: And I've also got like some.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 3: Pretty massive issues in it. We've got like everything to
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 3: do with you my as Well's right and being that,
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 3: you know, we've got Heleima and Rand and Alana, Rand
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 3: in a box and Alana, And there's like lots of
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 3: stuff that like people debate that, like Perkoly through the
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 3: whole series that like very critical moments happen in this book.
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 16: Yeah, it's definitely set up for like what happens in
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 16: the rest of the series in a lot of ways.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 16: Oh yeah, And it also has the worst cover art.
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 16: I don't know if you guys realized that.
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 8: I just gotta I gotta throw.
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 16: It out there because I like talking about the artwork
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 16: and I love the artwork for most of these, but
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 16: this is the worst book cover I've ever I.
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: Would agree with that.
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 5: It's not even just his outfit, but like what is
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 5: the position he's standing in, Like what's that he's like doing, Like, uh.
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 8: He looks like nothing happened Travolta.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 5: And like one of you know, like staying Alive or
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 5: one of those is so.
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: Deep that yeah, this is the v And then there's
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 2: a drag car. That's like, there's no track car on
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: this book.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the one thing I always poured out of. Really,
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 5: I was like, I don't remember a drack caar in
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 5: this book, Like.
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 2: Well, it's because they are way up in the sky
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 2: and you didn't see them. So they were there.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 6: They're always there.
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 5: It was there. No one even Robert Jordan didn't see it.
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that explains so much.
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 4: And then the woman down in the corner like supplicating
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 4: in what looks like, I don't know, like a poncho.
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 6: It kind of like.
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 13: They do have ponchos all the isid I get ponchos.
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 8: Coming soon to watch spoiler's merchandise is available, Yes, totally.
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 6: Everybody added to your merch sort it's.
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: A big thing. Lady Bucks, They're good for sure. So
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 2: I don't quite know how to go through this.
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 3: Maybe we could just go through like the major story
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 3: beats and kind of and yeah, I kind of want
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 3: to hear what you guys are thinking about in terms
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 3: of how you are going to approach this book or
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 3: have approached it, because obviously Morgan and I have both
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 3: done it to some extent. Morgan hasn't done the whole book,
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 3: but you at least could have touched on it because of.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: The way you go topically.
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 3: The other three you guys are looking at this is
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 3: in however many months or years, So I'm interested in
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 3: how you're going to approach approach this book. So I
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 3: don't quite know how to drive the conversation per se,
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 3: because I mostly want.
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: To hear from you. Sure, which point do we want
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 2: to start with?
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I guess I can just start at the top
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 4: of the list.
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's more or less chronological.
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 4: So so Rand bouncy around to going from Camlin to
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 4: carry In, like back and forth. I appreciate that he
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 4: wants to get away from stuff, that he wants to
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 4: be by himself, but like he's so far up his
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 4: own ass that he doesn't realize what a high value
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 4: asset he is and that he's putting himself in danger
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 4: every single time he does this.
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 6: And it's like, my dude, there.
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 4: Are people who are literally begging it to like watch
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 4: your six and you're just fucking off whenever and not
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 4: telling anybody where you're going.
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 6: That's just so fucking dumb. It's so dumb.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 5: Game.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 6: Whatever.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 4: But like have you learned nothing in the past. However,
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 4: many books.
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 16: Between that and dealing with like an authority issue, like
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 16: he doesn't ever want to be told what to do.
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 16: I mean, I get it again, Like I understand where
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 16: he's coming from because he's gone through some like stripes here,
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 16: but gosh, like bad decision making.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, early in.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 3: The book, he's bouncing around and it's like this is
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 3: why you might as well as happens.
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 13: Yeah, it's all the sun up obviously for how that happens.
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 5: But I mean he's usually he's taking Idel with him
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 5: when he goes, and people know when he goes back
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 5: and forth, and I think you know that obviously. The
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 5: incident at the end when he you know, disappears, it's
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 5: kind of like set up because it's building up to
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 5: like him getting frustrated with the Idel want you know,
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 5: the maidens wanting to come with him every time, and
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 5: him like you know, saying okay this, only this many
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 5: could come and only that many can come. But I
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 5: get confused. I start getting confused, you know when I
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 5: was re listening to this book as to like who's
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 5: in what city and where he is at which time,
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 5: And it was because I remember I was like, Okay, wait,
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 5: Eggwain's there. Wait, how the end is there? When do
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 5: one go to the other place? And I'm getting confused
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 5: as to who's where? So, like, I'm always thinking about
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 5: stuff like this from the you know, perspective of like
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 5: how they're going to do it in the show. Yeah,
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 5: so I'm like, are they going to have him bounce
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 5: around a lot from different cities? Is that going to
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 5: be too confused for our viewers? Important point though to
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 5: the end of the book.
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 16: So yeah, I mean I think that's kind of the
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 16: main issue with the whole fast travel situation. When when
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 16: limited number of characters have fast travel like however you
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 16: want to call that, it can cause issues with like
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 16: and I don't know anything about TV shows or how
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 16: to make TV shows, and I've talked about this enough times,
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 16: but I can see them doing it to a lesser
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 16: extent to show that he's capable of doing that, and
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 16: that will still cause probably like you don't have to
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 16: have a back and forth, back and forth, back and
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 16: forth that you can show it like two or three
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 16: times to show him in far away places like very
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 16: very shortly in the timeframe, you know. My kind of
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 16: like the whole Denaros on the Dragon is like, boom,
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 16: she's north.
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 5: Of the wall.
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 2: How that happen?
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 16: But there's an actual reason why that's going to happen
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 16: in the Wheel of time ship.
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 4: With his being a sort of of retelling, like a
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 4: new turning of the wheel, they have the opportunity to
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 4: like consolidate some of that stuff, so you know, maybe
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 4: he's not balancing back and forth a bunch of times.
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 4: It's like he goes to Camlin does a bunch of
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 4: stuff and then comes back to Kyrie in and you know,
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 4: they can they can streamline it more.
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 8: Yea, and they're going to have to, Yeah, they could.
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 5: They could even just have like a conversation where somebody's saying, ran,
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 5: you keep going back and forth between the two cities,
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 5: We're having trouble tracking you. That that could be it.
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 12: That could sounds like.
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 5: Parent's not even really in this in this book at all, except.
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 3: For actually, I mean this is the book Repair and Rejoins, right,
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 3: Oh that's right.
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's right. I'm sorry.
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 3: This is when he comes back like you're used to
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 3: not thinking about him, and then he shows up as fire.
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 5: As a Heaven where He's basically gone for the entire book, right, Well.
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 12: So, I so I'm not sure if I'm going to
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 12: choose to because you know, I only he do. I'm
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 12: probably going to do more episodes per book. The further
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 12: books in I get because there's so much more topic
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 12: and this is such a topic dense book. But if
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 12: I'm going to approach this kind of ran bouncing around,
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 12: I'm going to do it from the whole Freudian aspect of,
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 12: you know, why is Rand running? You know what's going
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 12: on in his mind and kind of try to like,
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 12: you know, break that apart and look into you know,
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 12: how bad he is mentally at this point. You know,
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 12: I am trying to like at this point, I mean
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 12: to the dragon were Born and just kind of looking
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 12: at the degradation of his mental illness and so get
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 12: to the point of, you know, where he is pushing
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 12: his friends away and just yeah, where he is mentally
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 12: and you know how everything sets him up to be
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 12: taken just because he's.
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 2: Running from everything, and.
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 12: So and kind of, uh, it's almost like there's obviously
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 12: before and after because of Domai's wells and him being
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 12: taken and everything that gets set up for that but
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 12: it's almost like there's even more of a before and after,
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 12: and you know it is trauma, you know, caused because
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 12: of you know, him pushing everybody away and everything that
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 12: gets set up. There's like so many layers to you know,
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 12: one of the many things that causes Ran to kind
• 2:27:20
  Speaker 12: of break apart that you know makes this really heartbreaking
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 12: for him.
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 17: So I'll probably you know, get into that.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 8: Morgan.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 16: I think you have you have like an awesome point
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 16: about that because of like Rand's mental wellness right now,
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 16: because it's kind of funny, but throughout the series, Ran
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 16: kind of always had a direction. Like he leaves you know,
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 16: two Rivers and it's like boom, we got to go
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 16: to Tarvell and nope, we got to go to the Blight. Nope,
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 16: we got to go to Eye of the World. And
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 16: then it's like, okay, I'm in the mountains for a
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 16: long time and going crazy, so I got to get
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 16: to Tier. And then in Tier he's like, Okay, I'm
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 16: formulating this plan and I got to go see the
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 16: Iel and I got to conquer that whole deal and
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 16: like become their car car and everything. Like he always
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 16: has a direction, and then all of a sudden Lord
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 16: of Chaos, he like starts the tower, like he does
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 16: the Black Tower stuff in this book, if I'm not mistaken,
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 16: But all of a sudden, he's like done all these things,
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 16: and it's like he doesn't necessarily know his next move,
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 16: so he's bouncing back and forth, back and forth, like
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 16: what do I do next? And he's just bouncing around,
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 16: kind of hitting on men a little bit, kind of
• 2:28:20
  Speaker 16: not like he doesn't really know how to take that relationship.
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 16: So and then all everything is like all hits ahead
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 16: when he's captured and then Doma as well as happens,
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 16: and then he finally has a direction of what to
• 2:28:32
  Speaker 16: do at the end of this book. But like the
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 16: entire Lord of Chaos is like, what is Ran doing?
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 16: He doesn't know. Yeah, he's bouncing.
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 5: Back, and I think he's I think he's kind of
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 5: putting that under the guise of like I'm trying to
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 5: keep everybody off balance, but.
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 8: He's, yeah, it's like you're doing anything.
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 5: He doesn't know what to do, but he's trying to, like,
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 5: you know, say no, I'm just trying to keep people
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 5: off balanced so they don't know what my next move
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 5: is going to be. And he is setting things up.
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 5: But I mean he's trying to set things up at
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 5: this point, right, because I think this is like, right,
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 5: isn't he making plans to go after Samuel in this
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 5: book already?
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 16: But that's the thing, is like, what's really happening because
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 16: you moved so fast before this book, like it was
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 16: all boom boom boom, and all of a sudden, it's
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 16: like pump the brakes here.
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 12: But yeah, yeah, And I think he's like in a
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 12: whole punishment stage. He's punishing himself for what happened to
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 12: more rain. You know, he's trying to think of you know,
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 12: that will never happen again. And then he's starting to
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 12: seriously get loose there and talking to him in his
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 12: head and he's just he's not doing so great, and
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 12: so that'll be really fertile ground to kind of explore.
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 12: And you know, so I think there's a whole why
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 12: is Raan doing what he's doing? Oh, Seth makes a
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 12: good point. Avianda and Matt died and even though he
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 12: was able to bail fire them back into Existence's like
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 12: there's just there's a lot of internal fuckery to explore.
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 5: So, yeah, he doesn't really think about it's well on
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 5: that too. At least we don't see him really dwell
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 5: on that part too much.
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 4: Though it's weird, like, Okay, he was able to bail
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 4: fire them back to life, but like that doesn't undo
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 4: the trauma that happened when they died.
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 6: It's like even though he doesn't.
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 4: Even though he doesn't say anything about it, but he
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 4: and he may not even.
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 6: Realize it, but like that has fucked him up.
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 5: He seen Matt die twice basically, yeah, like like the
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 5: thing work and.
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 2: I mean technically technically Matt didn't.
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 5: Die that time, but no, no, I know, you know, and.
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 12: Like the thing with the Lana and what makes it
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 12: so doubly herrorbreaking and I'm you know, I'm already kind
• 2:30:46
  Speaker 12: of mapping this episode out in my head is the
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 12: fact that he meets the two Rivers girls before that happens,
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 12: and so he is like RJ returns him to innocence beforehand.
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 12: He's talking to him, and it's like he's returned to
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 12: being back home and you get sweet you know Rand
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 12: almost like you get to see eye of the World
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 12: Rand again for a little bit, and he's returned to that.
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 12: And then he goes in and he experiences this horrible violation,
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 12: and so it just makes it like a doubly ugly scene.
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 12: And so that's like, that's really good ground to explore
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 12: right there too. It's just it's this whole I mean,
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 12: there's a lot of be feeling like, oh, poor Rand,
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 12: you know, but this is like a really serious poor
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 12: Rand book. And yeah, so there's a lot to look
• 2:31:32
  Speaker 12: into there.
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to your earlier point about him feeling trapped and
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 3: not knowing where he's going, like Alana bonding him is
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 3: a huge part of why he cannot feel safe. There
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 3: is nowhere to be safe. Not only does he not
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 3: have a mission, now he can be blindsided by the
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 3: one two punch of the two Rivers girls realizing he's
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 3: the dragon, and then being rape bonded.
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 5: Like yeah, yeah, so this is great. This is like
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 5: a part in the story that I always like. I
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 5: like Alana's character a lot, and when she bonds him,
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 5: I'm like, oh wow. And I think when I first
• 2:32:06
  Speaker 5: read this book, and I read this back probably like
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 5: over twenty years well probably around twenty years ago now,
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 5: and when I first read this scene, I was like,
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 5: oh wow, that's crazy. I never thought of it that
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 5: way that you know, it was kind of like, you know,
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 5: in comparison to like rape, which you know, but I
• 2:32:22
  Speaker 5: always thought, and I don't know if it's ever explained
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 5: as to why she does it, Like, what are her
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 5: thoughts behind doing it? Is it just because she thinks
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 5: someone needs to have tabs on him? Or is it
• 2:32:35
  Speaker 5: because I know she tries to she thinks she can
• 2:32:37
  Speaker 5: control him.
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 16: There's a there's a few different thought processes we can
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 16: get into here.
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a control thing, partly of wanting to try and
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 4: get inside his head thing because you know, obviously the
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 4: Tower wants to They want to be able to control him,
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 4: or at the very least, I imagine, want to know
• 2:32:55
  Speaker 4: what the hell he's doing. And so a lot of
• 2:32:58
  Speaker 4: thinks that this is the way that it's gonna that
• 2:33:02
  Speaker 4: it's gonna happen, and it's just I mean, it was
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 4: a miscalculation from the get go because you know, first
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 4: of all, huge violation and now he has this woman
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 4: in his head that he never asked to be there.
• 2:33:14
  Speaker 16: And well, yeah, that like so she planned it from
• 2:33:18
  Speaker 16: the start though. So this is something that goes back
• 2:33:20
  Speaker 16: to book four with Alana, when Alana and Baron go
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 16: to the Two Rivers, Alana literally thought about foresponding parent
• 2:33:27
  Speaker 16: because she'd like one of the first things, like thought
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 16: processes we get from Alana and the Two Rivers When
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 16: Paren shows up and he's like, why are you guys here,
• 2:33:35
  Speaker 16: she talks to him and she says like something along
• 2:33:37
  Speaker 16: the lines of I'm not going to forespond you. I'm
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 16: not that far.
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 8: Lost yet dot dot dot dot dot.
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 16: So she's thought about it, and when she does bond rand,
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 16: she one hundred percent tries to control him immediately. Because
• 2:33:51
  Speaker 16: also when she talks with the whole Saladar whatever you
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 16: want to call, like the Saladar group, She's like, I
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 16: already tried to force them to do what I want.
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 16: So like that was something that she thought about, tried
• 2:34:02
  Speaker 16: and did it, And she was thinking about bonding paring
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 16: paring beforehand. So like this is a precalculated she knew
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 16: what she was doing thing. It wasn't like a mistake.
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 13: Oh, I don't think it was a mistake.
• 2:34:14
  Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, a miscalculation in that plan.
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 5: It woul Yeah, when her water died, right, she's been
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 5: it's been pretty clear that she's looking for a new water.
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, it wouldn't have been a
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 16: bad plan if if if she had been able to
• 2:34:33
  Speaker 16: control Rand, like debatably, she could have argued that it
• 2:34:36
  Speaker 16: was a great plan because then she got she has
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 16: control of the dragon reborn, Like there's no reason why
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 16: she would know it wouldn't work.
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I mean, while though, is that like
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 4: once she found out that there was like that wasn't
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 4: going to work, and also she gets to feel all
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 4: of that bullshit going on, like the wounds and all
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 4: of that stuff, like it's not working.
• 2:35:00
  Speaker 6: Why did you keep him boded? Why didn't you release
• 2:35:02
  Speaker 6: the bond?
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 5: That's a great question.
• 2:35:04
  Speaker 6: Just didn't work. This was a field experiment, and this shit,
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 6: I don't need this shit.
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 13: I like, that's a real good question.
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 12: Like Alana's mental state is not so great either, and
• 2:35:15
  Speaker 12: it's like her.
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 17: The green is not the logic agia.
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 12: So it's like she's very passionate, and so she does
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 12: something that's not one hundred percent impulsive, but she does
• 2:35:27
  Speaker 12: take advantage of a situation, you know, to do this thing.
• 2:35:32
  Speaker 12: And then it's sort of like I think she continues
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 12: to justify it to herself afterwards, even though it's not
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 12: particularly a logical.
• 2:35:40
  Speaker 17: Thing to have done.
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 16: It's like I mean, from her perspective, it's not a
• 2:35:44
  Speaker 16: bad thing though, Like she doesn't feel guilty, Like for
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 16: her to release Rand, she would have to feel some
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 16: moticum of like guilt, but she doesn't feel guilty about
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 16: what she did. She fully endorses what she did, like
• 2:35:57
  Speaker 16: it's not something she did from an emotional state of mind,
• 2:36:00
  Speaker 16: Like I would argue that point, so she wouldn't. She
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 16: was not going to release him because she doesn't feel
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 16: like it was a bad idea or it was the
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 16: wrong decision. She feels justified in your actions.
• 2:36:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess my thought is that, yeah, she feels
• 2:36:14
  Speaker 4: justified in her actions. But you know, she had specific
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 4: reasons that she did it, and she was not able
• 2:36:21
  Speaker 4: to achieve the ends that she wanted to achieve by
• 2:36:24
  Speaker 4: doing it, and now she is constantly experiencing the same pain.
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 6: And stuff that he is.
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 4: And I'm just I don't understand why she stayed signed
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 4: up for it when she.
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 6: Wasn't going to be able to achieve what she wanted
• 2:36:36
  Speaker 6: to achieve.
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 4: But I think to Morgan's point two, if I recall correctly,
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 4: she really took the death of that one worder really
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 4: really badly, like super badly.
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know what, to your point, Jess, the
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 5: reason I think that she kept him bonded was there
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 5: at that point. I think it might have been known
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 5: that she bonded him, and she might have been getting
• 2:37:03
  Speaker 5: pressure from other Ice to Die to keep him bonded
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 5: because because everyone was really right, all the other Ice
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 5: to Die became very interested in a lot of because
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 5: she knew where Rand was and she knew his emotional states,
• 2:37:14
  Speaker 5: and she became almost like a little like elephant.
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean, yeah, a lot of always wanted to
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 16: be relevant to right. She wants to be close to
• 2:37:22
  Speaker 16: the action. She wants to be the green yes, like
• 2:37:25
  Speaker 16: green sister. Right that she's like a.
• 2:37:28
  Speaker 13: Thrill seeker kind of, she's got that mentality.
• 2:37:31
  Speaker 2: So you want to go you want to go down
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 2: to the history books?
• 2:37:34
  Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, I mean if you think about anybody, you
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 16: want to go down to history. But like hopefully for something,
• 2:37:39
  Speaker 16: but if not for something good, just for something right,
• 2:37:42
  Speaker 16: Like she was the one who bonded the dragon reborn.
• 2:37:46
  Speaker 3: Not the only one though, there probably a lot of
• 2:37:51
  Speaker 3: people in there are so many people.
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 13: Like you could have made a sitcom about that.
• 2:38:00
  Speaker 6: God damn, all right, what's next?
• 2:38:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah is terrible? Let's go yea. Yeah, she's just not great.
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 2: So Parent and Fail are going the series.
• 2:38:28
  Speaker 3: After being gone for an entire book, they rejoin the plot,
• 2:38:35
  Speaker 3: which is kind of important.
• 2:38:37
  Speaker 5: I love that. What is it? It's at the end.
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 5: I think of the fires I have in right, Parents,
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 5: just like, Oh, I feel rand he needs me.
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 13: I was like that, that's that's tavern.
• 2:38:48
  Speaker 5: That's what it's like. I need a way to get
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 5: Paren to go back to rad. How do I do that? Oh?
• 2:38:53
  Speaker 5: Taverin That's right. I put this whole thing in there.
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 16: Hey, great plot device. So like we've got to give
• 2:38:59
  Speaker 16: Marje points for me. Like, hey, guys, I'm going to
• 2:39:01
  Speaker 16: do this in the book series, just.
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 5: Like watch You Parents for the first time, which is
• 2:39:10
  Speaker 5: a pretty fun scene.
• 2:39:12
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you want to know what I love.
• 2:39:20
  Speaker 2: But I'm not a fan of Dera honestly. But I
• 2:39:25
  Speaker 2: really liked Avram, Like.
• 2:39:28
  Speaker 5: I love the fact that she's like bigger than him
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 5: and kind of more intimidating than he is. I like that.
• 2:39:37
  Speaker 5: I like that. I think that's fun.
• 2:39:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do really her badass when they have
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 3: that break in and like gathering Storm or something, and
• 2:39:45
  Speaker 3: she's like, oh, yeah, this guy tried to kill me,
• 2:39:48
  Speaker 3: so I hit him with a chair and stabbed him,
• 2:39:49
  Speaker 3: but he got away, and you know, it's just another day,
• 2:39:54
  Speaker 3: pretty bad ass.
• 2:39:56
  Speaker 4: It reminds me of like Dearra in uh, what's his face?
• 2:40:03
  Speaker 4: Devrem if you ever saw that one episode of Bob's
• 2:40:07
  Speaker 4: Burgers where Bob is holding Linda back and somebody like
• 2:40:14
  Speaker 4: or no, he's holding somebody else back and they're like,
• 2:40:17
  Speaker 4: why are you Why are you pushing me? He's like, no,
• 2:40:19
  Speaker 4: I'm protecting you from Linda. She's crazy. And that's how
• 2:40:22
  Speaker 4: I imagine like like Dearra and Davrum to be like he's
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 4: getting people out of her way, like no, she's nuts.
• 2:40:29
  Speaker 6: You don't you don't, you do not want this?
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 5: Like it does explain a little bit of how the
• 2:40:35
  Speaker 5: way Fayel treats parent in their relationship when you see
• 2:40:38
  Speaker 5: the interactions and the weirdness of the relationship between Dearra
• 2:40:42
  Speaker 5: and davraam because that's just it's just so weird, and
• 2:40:46
  Speaker 5: Paren's like dumbfounded as like what I've what is this?
• 2:40:50
  Speaker 5: I have no idea what's going on here? You want
• 2:40:52
  Speaker 5: me to argue and yell, what's I don't get it.
• 2:40:56
  Speaker 4: She married the wrong guy if that's what she wanted,
• 2:40:59
  Speaker 4: because that's so his style, right, he's so chill and
• 2:41:05
  Speaker 4: she has no chill whatsoever.
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 5: And but I mean, that's that's Stabboram though. Right, he's
• 2:41:12
  Speaker 5: kind of chilled and he doesn't really get ruffled. So
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 5: it's almost like parents Davraam and fails her mother.
• 2:41:20
  Speaker 4: But I feel like like Davream entered into the relationship
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 4: knowing what he was getting into and knowing what the
• 2:41:31
  Speaker 4: what the expectations were. Because everybody like, every time I
• 2:41:35
  Speaker 4: say Fail sucks because she's abusive, they're like, oh, but
• 2:41:38
  Speaker 4: it's cultural.
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 6: Cultural.
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 4: It's like, okay, let's just let's say just for a
• 2:41:42
  Speaker 4: moment that because it's culturally acceptable for somebody to scream
• 2:41:48
  Speaker 4: at their spouse and strike them in that culture, it
• 2:41:52
  Speaker 4: is not acceptable in the two rivers culture.
• 2:41:54
  Speaker 6: Ergo, what fail does to.
• 2:41:56
  Speaker 4: Parent is abusive because you're in Davraam come from the
• 2:41:59
  Speaker 4: same place. Again, theoretically we're pretending like it's okay that
• 2:42:04
  Speaker 4: she does these things. He knows what's supposed to be
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 4: going on. So their dynamic is in a way you
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 4: could maybe look at it as a safe, staying and
• 2:42:17
  Speaker 4: consensual BDSM kind of relationship where everybody knows what the
• 2:42:22
  Speaker 4: rules are, everybody knows where the boundaries are, everybody knows
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 4: how to stop it if it's going too far. Fail
• 2:42:28
  Speaker 4: doesn't have any of that insight in terms of like
• 2:42:32
  Speaker 4: actually have that kind of.
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 6: Him all the time.
• 2:42:38
  Speaker 13: Yeah, she's immature, she doesn't.
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 5: She doesn't get it that, you know, Oh, there's different cultures,
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 5: you know, even though she's probably been educated to a
• 2:42:45
  Speaker 5: lot of different cultures, but she doesn't. She just thinks
• 2:42:48
  Speaker 5: this is the way. I would say, she's probably was
• 2:42:52
  Speaker 5: taught that by her mother, but I don't want to
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 5: get into that.
• 2:42:57
  Speaker 6: You learn how to be in a relationship from the
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 6: relationships that you observe as you grow.
• 2:43:02
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 2:43:02
  Speaker 4: If you observe relationships that have poor communication or have
• 2:43:06
  Speaker 4: a weird or unhealthy dynamic, that's all you know.
• 2:43:08
  Speaker 6: And so that's that's.
• 2:43:10
  Speaker 4: The energy you're going to bring to any relationship that
• 2:43:12
  Speaker 4: you get into unless you start to understand, okay, these
• 2:43:16
  Speaker 4: are the things that we're not okay and the things
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 4: that I need to change, you know. And so Fayil
• 2:43:21
  Speaker 4: doesn't have that level of awareness. Yeah, probably because she's young.
• 2:43:26
  Speaker 5: But I'm weird though, because it seems like Davra Mendira
• 2:43:29
  Speaker 5: have a very nice, happy relationship.
• 2:43:33
  Speaker 6: She's extremely happy.
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 13: Yeah, she's I think that's what it is.
• 2:43:35
  Speaker 5: Fayl says, Oh, my parents treat each other like this
• 2:43:37
  Speaker 5: and the both of them are very happy. So this
• 2:43:39
  Speaker 5: is how I make my husband happy.
• 2:43:41
  Speaker 16: But that's a point of where they are in the
• 2:43:44
  Speaker 16: first book or like not the first book, but you
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 16: know what I mean, Like from when we first see
• 2:43:48
  Speaker 16: them where they are to where they get to at
• 2:43:50
  Speaker 16: the end of the series, there is that relationship growth
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 16: where maybe it's not exactly what we as the reader
• 2:43:56
  Speaker 16: would expect, but they do grow in their relationship together.
• 2:44:00
  Speaker 16: So although like she is, you know, abrasive aggressive at
• 2:44:05
  Speaker 16: the beginning, they kind of move along together too and
• 2:44:08
  Speaker 16: accept what the relationship becomes later on. Like I wouldn't
• 2:44:11
  Speaker 16: expect them to be, you know, like I wouldn't expect
• 2:44:16
  Speaker 16: Fayel to be like an em and Steeld woman from
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 16: the get go, So why would I expect parent to
• 2:44:20
  Speaker 16: be like a Suldan man?
• 2:44:22
  Speaker 6: Right right? Right?
• 2:44:25
  Speaker 4: I don't remember enough about how they end up toward
• 2:44:27
  Speaker 4: the end of the series to be able to say.
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 4: But I mean, if they do find some kind of
• 2:44:33
  Speaker 4: common ground, then I guess.
• 2:44:37
  Speaker 3: I guess it's okay, going in good directions at Growing Pains, right,
• 2:44:42
  Speaker 3: Growing Pains. It's one of the things that I really
• 2:44:44
  Speaker 3: liked how Brandon Sanderson handled that section where Fayal sort
• 2:44:49
  Speaker 3: of has a moment where she like realizes that she
• 2:44:52
  Speaker 3: was really an awful brat, that it's a wonder that
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 3: anyone put up with her, and she like has that
• 2:44:57
  Speaker 3: revelation and like she behaves better towards Parrot and has
• 2:45:01
  Speaker 3: more communication.
• 2:45:01
  Speaker 2: Like this feels a little bit like she grew up
• 2:45:03
  Speaker 2: too fast, but also she went actual.
• 2:45:07
  Speaker 3: So it's like they're pointed in the right direction for
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 3: post last Battle true healthy relationships desk.
• 2:45:14
  Speaker 16: Yeah, but I mean, what would you expect from like
• 2:45:16
  Speaker 16: a sixteen and eighteen year old right at the very beginning.
• 2:45:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, it doesn't matter if bad, it's it's bad.
• 2:45:25
  Speaker 4: It's really we were all idiots. Yeah, yeah, But I.
• 2:45:31
  Speaker 3: Mean this is a book where we don't see any
• 2:45:33
  Speaker 3: of that growth. This is a book where we really
• 2:45:34
  Speaker 3: see a lot of the unhealthiness. This is a book
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 3: that sets us up for like the just mind numbingly
• 2:45:41
  Speaker 3: grinding parent FAYEO Berylaine thing like that is where this
• 2:45:46
  Speaker 3: book leaves off is because he leaves right because Beryline
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 3: has the news about the thief Catchers, noticing that Colovert
• 2:45:54
  Speaker 3: had used poison. So then when Paren gets back, he
• 2:45:57
  Speaker 3: leaves right him and fat you are having a fight.
• 2:46:00
  Speaker 3: He leaves to do doo my as wells, thinking he's
• 2:46:02
  Speaker 3: never coming back. He gets back freaking out for Fayeu
• 2:46:06
  Speaker 3: and the first words out of his mouth.
• 2:46:08
  Speaker 2: Or where berylin? Where is Berylin? And it's just.
• 2:46:15
  Speaker 13: So this is I forgot about that.
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So this book is the period between their honeymoon
• 2:46:21
  Speaker 3: phase and their first like serious problem with Berylin because
• 2:46:25
  Speaker 3: before it was just she was an annoying person.
• 2:46:28
  Speaker 5: Wait do you mean when when Berylin and fayl gotten
• 2:46:31
  Speaker 5: a full on brawl that was.
• 2:46:33
  Speaker 2: That was just girls?
• 2:46:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because because.
• 2:46:39
  Speaker 5: She was did slap her around a bit too, which
• 2:46:42
  Speaker 5: is kind of fun.
• 2:46:43
  Speaker 3: But it was before they were married, right, like, so
• 2:46:46
  Speaker 3: I feel like it could have ended there. And then
• 2:46:50
  Speaker 3: the stuff that just makes all of us want to
• 2:46:52
  Speaker 3: pull our hair out is kind of still in the future.
• 2:46:57
  Speaker 3: This this book is you know, the honeymoon happened, right
• 2:47:00
  Speaker 3: they got through the Two Rivers.
• 2:47:01
  Speaker 2: That was great. Hey, not all of it was great
• 2:47:06
  Speaker 2: for them.
• 2:47:06
  Speaker 13: It was great, but you know, well they weren't married
• 2:47:11
  Speaker 13: at that point.
• 2:47:11
  Speaker 5: They got married after that happened.
• 2:47:13
  Speaker 3: I think they lived in the Two Rivers for like
• 2:47:15
  Speaker 3: what two months and like and that was great. And
• 2:47:18
  Speaker 3: now this is them showing up being like, oh right,
• 2:47:20
  Speaker 3: being around Rand sucks.
• 2:47:23
  Speaker 12: It's such a drug sucks. People hate the shidow plot point,
• 2:47:31
  Speaker 12: but I like it just because it gets the two
• 2:47:33
  Speaker 12: of them away from each other. And I actually like
• 2:47:36
  Speaker 12: Fayel's character once she's not around heron like, you know, oh,
• 2:47:41
  Speaker 12: she's actually not horrible if she's not dealing with him.
• 2:47:45
  Speaker 2: I would agree with that.
• 2:47:46
  Speaker 13: Oh wow, I never looked at it that way.
• 2:47:48
  Speaker 5: Morgan. That's a great point there.
• 2:47:51
  Speaker 4: Fayla has a lot of really good stuff going for her,
• 2:47:53
  Speaker 4: and she's another character that I got really excited about
• 2:47:56
  Speaker 4: when I first met her, because she was badass, got
• 2:48:00
  Speaker 4: her knives and she she's like, yeah, fuck you, I
• 2:48:02
  Speaker 4: do what I want.
• 2:48:02
  Speaker 6: Like I was very very into that.
• 2:48:05
  Speaker 4: But then just sort of the way that she dealt
• 2:48:08
  Speaker 4: with Paren I did not like.
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 6: But she still has a lot of redeeming qualities.
• 2:48:13
  Speaker 4: She's still a badass, and her upbringing was really helpful,
• 2:48:18
  Speaker 4: like helping Paren step into the role that he ended
• 2:48:22
  Speaker 4: up having to take while he was in the two rivers,
• 2:48:25
  Speaker 4: Like you know, he never would have been able to
• 2:48:29
  Speaker 4: manage that by himself.
• 2:48:32
  Speaker 6: Or something what for you will.
• 2:48:37
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I still maintained that half of the problems that
• 2:48:41
  Speaker 12: Paren has with Fayla is the fact that he can
• 2:48:43
  Speaker 12: smell her emotions and takes responsibility for them.
• 2:48:46
  Speaker 5: Yes, Morgan, you mentioned that, and I was thinking about,
• 2:48:50
  Speaker 5: like Lesbie Nerdy did a video about Fyel and she
• 2:48:53
  Speaker 5: talked all about that about how Paren reacts to what
• 2:48:57
  Speaker 5: he smells in her emotions, and like she was saying, like,
• 2:49:01
  Speaker 5: imagine like people reacted to what you were thinking rather
• 2:49:05
  Speaker 5: than what you actually do, and they're, yeah, totally, that's
• 2:49:07
  Speaker 5: got to be super frustrating. And I was like, I
• 2:49:10
  Speaker 5: was very I was like, oh my god, you're making
• 2:49:11
  Speaker 5: me sympathize with fayil.
• 2:49:14
  Speaker 4: He but yeah, already Parent is already not a great communicator,
• 2:49:21
  Speaker 4: and he uses the fact that he can smell what's
• 2:49:23
  Speaker 4: going on with her as an excuse not to communicate,
• 2:49:27
  Speaker 4: whereas if like she knows what his deal is like,
• 2:49:31
  Speaker 4: she knows what your deal is, dude, you can talk
• 2:49:33
  Speaker 4: to her about the wolf stuff. She knows, So like
• 2:49:36
  Speaker 4: instead of being Okay, I'm smelling, I'm smelling jealousy on you?
• 2:49:40
  Speaker 6: Are we cool? What's going on? And then I don't know,
• 2:49:43
  Speaker 6: talk about it like adults.
• 2:49:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:49:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:49:46
  Speaker 4: Instead he's just like, Okay, well she's I'm smelling this.
• 2:49:50
  Speaker 4: I'm going to assume it's this, and then I'm going
• 2:49:52
  Speaker 4: to decide how I'm going to fix that based on
• 2:49:54
  Speaker 4: absolutely no other feedback from her whatsoever.
• 2:49:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:49:58
  Speaker 12: I could not handle someone who could smell Mike crazy.
• 2:50:01
  Speaker 12: It's like, come on, dude.
• 2:50:03
  Speaker 6: Welcome with the terror dough my friend.
• 2:50:05
  Speaker 5: It's like it's basically like one of what was that
• 2:50:08
  Speaker 5: one of those stupid movies when like what the guy
• 2:50:10
  Speaker 5: can hear what the girls are thinking.
• 2:50:11
  Speaker 13: It's like one of those things.
• 2:50:13
  Speaker 5: Basically, yeah, yeah, but I never thought of it that way,
• 2:50:18
  Speaker 5: and I was like, oh my god, I look at
• 2:50:19
  Speaker 5: Fayel in a whole different way now.
• 2:50:22
  Speaker 13: At that point. But I still doesn't.
• 2:50:24
  Speaker 5: I still I am upset about what she did to
• 2:50:26
  Speaker 5: him and the dragon were born, So.
• 2:50:27
  Speaker 12: Oh yeah, I actually, uh, I'm doing a bunch of
• 2:50:33
  Speaker 12: like getting bonus content together for a Patreon and I
• 2:50:36
  Speaker 12: have a bunch of like random thoughts mini. So it's
• 2:50:38
  Speaker 12: like generally when I'm high and I'm like suddenly.
• 2:50:41
  Speaker 2: Like, oh this is cool.
• 2:50:42
  Speaker 12: So I kind of like talked out like what she
• 2:50:45
  Speaker 12: must have seen when she first saw him in the inn.
• 2:50:47
  Speaker 12: It's like, you know, and it was actually kind of
• 2:50:49
  Speaker 12: funny too. Instead of just being like this presumptuous shithead
• 2:50:54
  Speaker 12: hopping on the boat and being like, you know, I'm
• 2:50:55
  Speaker 12: part of your party now, just imagining like her looking
• 2:50:58
  Speaker 12: at him and watching it everything and like what might
• 2:51:01
  Speaker 12: have been going on through her head to make her
• 2:51:03
  Speaker 12: decide to do what she did. It was kind of
• 2:51:05
  Speaker 12: fun so and maybe not quite hate her as much,
• 2:51:09
  Speaker 12: though I still would have thrown her off the ship.
• 2:51:13
  Speaker 5: I actually I realized I misspoke. I mean from what
• 2:51:16
  Speaker 5: she did to him in the beginning of The Shadow Rising. Yes,
• 2:51:19
  Speaker 5: that's what I was thinking of.
• 2:51:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this this is fun. I kind of thought, oh.
• 2:51:27
  Speaker 5: No, you need a pen and a paper radio. That's
• 2:51:29
  Speaker 5: what I do when people are talking and I come
• 2:51:31
  Speaker 5: up with the thought. I shot it down so I
• 2:51:32
  Speaker 5: don't forget it because I will.
• 2:51:34
  Speaker 7: That is so smart.
• 2:51:35
  Speaker 2: That's that's very competent of here.
• 2:51:42
  Speaker 5: What's it like, So someone brought up the Shidow.
• 2:51:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, the Shdow.
• 2:51:48
  Speaker 8: Go there you go.
• 2:51:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, someone brought up the Shdow and I was like,
• 2:51:52
  Speaker 5: I hate the Shydow and I hate a lot of
• 2:51:54
  Speaker 5: the Yeah, and I hate a lot of their storyline,
• 2:51:58
  Speaker 5: and I was I was all for cutting them out,
• 2:52:00
  Speaker 5: like thinking again about the TV show cutting them out
• 2:52:03
  Speaker 5: after at the end of when they attack Kyrie, and
• 2:52:07
  Speaker 5: I was like, let's have them just wipe out the
• 2:52:09
  Speaker 5: Shadow at that point. But then I forgot that they
• 2:52:11
  Speaker 5: play a role in Jumi as well, So I'm like
• 2:52:13
  Speaker 5: rolling there, yeah, back Jumi as well as the Shadow
• 2:52:19
  Speaker 5: are done and finished with, because after that their story
• 2:52:23
  Speaker 5: is just.
• 2:52:23
  Speaker 6: Like, uh yeah, just get him out of here.
• 2:52:28
  Speaker 12: Yes, I agree with that, and I think that what
• 2:52:31
  Speaker 12: they should do instead is have send Paren to Gelden,
• 2:52:34
  Speaker 12: but have him grab Aleandre and then send him off
• 2:52:37
  Speaker 12: to Alma's plane to start tying in those plot lines
• 2:52:40
  Speaker 12: earlier on.
• 2:52:41
  Speaker 13: Yeah, so you could have Dragon sworn kidnap ye or something.
• 2:52:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, something like you can still have the alliance with
• 2:52:47
  Speaker 3: Kylie and tying in with the shan Chan that way.
• 2:52:52
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I think it will be a lot neater to
• 2:52:54
  Speaker 12: do something like that, or we could.
• 2:52:56
  Speaker 6: Just cut out the whole kidnapping plot line.
• 2:52:59
  Speaker 12: I was thinking we could cut out both by Yeel
• 2:53:01
  Speaker 12: and Gowan because I like, I like Parent and a
• 2:53:05
  Speaker 12: gwayn together.
• 2:53:05
  Speaker 17: I think they have good chemistry, so.
• 2:53:08
  Speaker 6: They do have the chemistry.
• 2:53:10
  Speaker 5: I ship.
• 2:53:10
  Speaker 12: It was when I first read it, like.
• 2:53:15
  Speaker 5: How would you? I was thinking, like, how would you
• 2:53:17
  Speaker 5: write that? Like, because if you do cut out like
• 2:53:19
  Speaker 5: File getting captured, what does paren do and File do
• 2:53:22
  Speaker 5: for like four books? It feels like what do they do?
• 2:53:27
  Speaker 3: The whole profit plot line could be rewritten to give
• 2:53:30
  Speaker 3: them something better to do, everything to do with it?
• 2:53:33
  Speaker 2: So I do.
• 2:53:36
  Speaker 4: I do love that, Like the prophet was particularly a
• 2:53:41
  Speaker 4: thorn and parents side.
• 2:53:43
  Speaker 6: So File fucking killed him.
• 2:53:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I killed this person for you, babe, don't worry
• 2:53:48
  Speaker 4: about it.
• 2:53:48
  Speaker 7: I got you.
• 2:53:49
  Speaker 4: And how She's just like that's how wives and Seldia do.
• 2:53:52
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, write Winter's Heart was a.
• 2:53:58
  Speaker 6: Horrible book for me. That's where I dropped off the
• 2:54:01
  Speaker 6: first time I started reading it.
• 2:54:02
  Speaker 4: It was just like, this is in this whole parent
• 2:54:06
  Speaker 4: kidnapping bullshit. This is insufferable, And I dropped off the
• 2:54:10
  Speaker 4: first time. But yeah, that moment awesome.
• 2:54:15
  Speaker 16: I mean, if you want to talk blasphemy too, like
• 2:54:17
  Speaker 16: they might just actually legit cut the profit out completely.
• 2:54:20
  Speaker 7: Mm hmm.
• 2:54:21
  Speaker 13: It's quite possible that they do that, and you.
• 2:54:23
  Speaker 16: Could have like profits of the Dragon, like just like
• 2:54:26
  Speaker 16: a bunch of disorderly priests or whatever you want to
• 2:54:29
  Speaker 16: call it, going out there spreading the good word.
• 2:54:32
  Speaker 5: But it could make white Cloaks. It could be white
• 2:54:34
  Speaker 5: Cloak the kidnapped. I was thinking just as white Cloaks
• 2:54:40
  Speaker 5: throughout the entire series.
• 2:54:42
  Speaker 16: Yeah, like the white Cloaks could be a bigger deal
• 2:54:44
  Speaker 16: in the TV show and like a bigger faction than
• 2:54:47
  Speaker 16: the incomfident nothingness that they are in my mind, like.
• 2:54:52
  Speaker 8: They're so ineffectual.
• 2:54:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:54:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many enemies that it's hard to have
• 2:54:58
  Speaker 3: them all be impressive. And it's like me be just
• 2:55:00
  Speaker 3: a few less enemies and then more impressiveness.
• 2:55:03
  Speaker 2: In said enemy.
• 2:55:04
  Speaker 16: They're gonna have to, like I assume just for TV.
• 2:55:06
  Speaker 16: And again I don't know anything about TV, but like
• 2:55:09
  Speaker 16: even with the whole I think Rafe was talking about
• 2:55:12
  Speaker 16: like which towns or which cities do we include if
• 2:55:14
  Speaker 16: you only get like six of them which ones do
• 2:55:17
  Speaker 16: you actually pick? Like, you could cut out Taran Ferry,
• 2:55:20
  Speaker 16: you could cut out bearl On, you could put everyone
• 2:55:22
  Speaker 16: in Camelan, like who knows what they're actually doing? So
• 2:55:26
  Speaker 16: but yeah, same with the idea with the enemies. You
• 2:55:28
  Speaker 16: could cut out a bunch of the factions and like
• 2:55:31
  Speaker 16: you said, Alreadia make them more bigger, bad guys.
• 2:55:36
  Speaker 13: So we're all in agreement. Get rid of the Shadow basically.
• 2:55:40
  Speaker 5: At least at some point they have to at some point.
• 2:55:43
  Speaker 4: I kind of love to hate the Shadow, like I
• 2:55:46
  Speaker 4: love to hate Savannah.
• 2:55:47
  Speaker 5: Oh my god, so she sucks so bad and I
• 2:55:50
  Speaker 5: love her.
• 2:55:51
  Speaker 16: I mean, let's talk about the shark, like the Sharans
• 2:55:53
  Speaker 16: are Are they going to be a thing? Are we
• 2:55:56
  Speaker 16: cutting Sharia completely?
• 2:55:57
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're gonna sae Shara. I don't think
• 2:56:00
  Speaker 2: going to see unnecessary twists, tame and dread.
• 2:56:04
  Speaker 13: We're going to get tame and dread.
• 2:56:07
  Speaker 2: He's going to do something else, right.
• 2:56:09
  Speaker 12: I can live with tam And I think they should
• 2:56:11
  Speaker 12: kill more gays. I think Robin should kill more. Gaze
• 2:56:15
  Speaker 12: needs to go.
• 2:56:16
  Speaker 5: I agree with Morgan on that.
• 2:56:19
  Speaker 8: Mortgage thing. I hate.
• 2:56:23
  Speaker 12: It's like awome well of this conversation.
• 2:56:31
  Speaker 5: It's like the two of them are very like, like
• 2:56:34
  Speaker 5: they feel guilty about well, at least he feels she
• 2:56:37
  Speaker 5: feels guilty about liking him, and it's I don't know,
• 2:56:40
  Speaker 5: it's really weird.
• 2:56:42
  Speaker 16: He's really young. I don't know if he knew. He's
• 2:56:43
  Speaker 16: pretty young, super young.
• 2:56:45
  Speaker 5: I was like, she's a little bit older than.
• 2:56:48
  Speaker 8: He's, like thirty.
• 2:56:49
  Speaker 12: I'd like it better if talent for we're gay or
• 2:56:52
  Speaker 12: something like that, so he could just be like her
• 2:56:53
  Speaker 12: loyal soldier and it wouldn't be that awkward, horrible plot line.
• 2:56:57
  Speaker 17: But I think they just need to kill her off.
• 2:56:59
  Speaker 17: It's cleaner that way.
• 2:57:00
  Speaker 12: And I get that RJ needed to apply a device to
• 2:57:04
  Speaker 12: get the lad to be in charge of the White Cloaks.
• 2:57:07
  Speaker 17: And you know, as far as that goes, it wasn't.
• 2:57:10
  Speaker 12: A bad one. But there are cleaner, easier ways to
• 2:57:12
  Speaker 12: do that.
• 2:57:13
  Speaker 5: So but then, how how is feel and them going
• 2:57:16
  Speaker 5: to escape from the from the shine in the pit
• 2:57:19
  Speaker 5: when more gaze channels the little flag, what is it channels?
• 2:57:22
  Speaker 5: Like for so.
• 2:57:29
  Speaker 4: Off?
• 2:57:30
  Speaker 5: Lot of chaos right now we're talking.
• 2:57:32
  Speaker 2: About doesn't matter. Chaos, just chaos.
• 2:57:35
  Speaker 6: That's all I wanted.
• 2:57:37
  Speaker 2: Chaos.
• 2:57:37
  Speaker 12: You got it.
• 2:57:39
  Speaker 3: But this is the this isn't the Shadow before they
• 2:57:43
  Speaker 3: lose all their their o as as an enemy, right,
• 2:57:47
  Speaker 3: Like they've helped Matt create the band and now they're
• 2:57:50
  Speaker 3: going to help create the World War one of Randland's experience.
• 2:57:55
  Speaker 3: This is still when the Shadows are awesome. Like if
• 2:57:57
  Speaker 3: they got wiped out with Dona as well, they would
• 2:58:00
  Speaker 3: have just stopped at their at their peak. This is
• 2:58:02
  Speaker 3: peak Savannah. You know, she's doing her false flag with
• 2:58:07
  Speaker 3: killing the Wise One, and she she really thinks she's
• 2:58:11
  Speaker 3: got it made. She's even considering double crossing like a
• 2:58:14
  Speaker 3: random dark friend who's actually a forsaken.
• 2:58:16
  Speaker 12: Like you could do something really cool where you just
• 2:58:20
  Speaker 12: have like Savannah and the Wise Ones, and you don't
• 2:58:23
  Speaker 12: have all of the Spears and everything, so there's a
• 2:58:26
  Speaker 12: smaller group of like rogue shidow channelers and have them
• 2:58:30
  Speaker 12: have kind of a plot line.
• 2:58:31
  Speaker 8: You could do something cool with uh, like.
• 2:58:34
  Speaker 2: Reverse Tinkers, Like they're violent as all.
• 2:58:36
  Speaker 4: Hell.
• 2:58:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, traveling around.
• 2:58:52
  Speaker 12: Nable says so much wonder stard hate. I like that book,
• 2:58:55
  Speaker 12: so I'm cool with that.
• 2:58:57
  Speaker 8: I think that the.
• 2:58:57
  Speaker 12: Ending when when Matt is stealing away with two on
• 2:59:00
  Speaker 12: his like nail binding I've read it so many times.
• 2:59:03
  Speaker 2: It was still just like Fame. That's one of the
• 2:59:05
  Speaker 2: whole rain drops.
• 2:59:11
  Speaker 6: The end of Winter's Heart thumbs up. The middle not
• 2:59:17
  Speaker 6: so much.
• 2:59:19
  Speaker 5: I think a lot of that book, And again we're
• 2:59:21
  Speaker 5: talking about different book, but there was a lot of
• 2:59:25
  Speaker 5: clues in there and controversy over like the whole team
• 2:59:28
  Speaker 5: and Dread theory like in that book, because there was
• 2:59:30
  Speaker 5: like the whole conversation about that, that the how in
• 2:59:34
  Speaker 5: the path of Daggers they were ordered to go attack
• 2:59:37
  Speaker 5: Rand and who gave the order and Tame or demon
• 2:59:40
  Speaker 5: Dread And it was like, I really enjoyed that. And
• 2:59:43
  Speaker 5: the Slayer has a cool part in that book too, Right,
• 2:59:45
  Speaker 5: doesn't he kill some people? He like appears and then
• 2:59:47
  Speaker 5: kills some people towards him.
• 2:59:48
  Speaker 17: Yeah, who kills the people in a formatting?
• 2:59:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, he's trying to kill land.
• 2:59:55
  Speaker 5: And once I think that was the first book I
• 2:59:57
  Speaker 5: had to actually wait for in my reading of the series.
• 3:00:01
  Speaker 5: That was the first book I had to wait for
• 3:00:03
  Speaker 5: it to come out.
• 3:00:03
  Speaker 12: So should we go back to Lord of KOs or.
• 3:00:09
  Speaker 3: You know, I was I was going to way to say,
• 3:00:11
  Speaker 3: you know, speaking of Tame, this book, I did not
• 3:00:15
  Speaker 3: realize this book contains the entirety of Rand's experience with
• 3:00:18
  Speaker 3: the Black Tower. Yeah, Rand founds the book, announces his amnesty,
• 3:00:23
  Speaker 3: gets Time, founds the Black Tower, gives it its pins
• 3:00:26
  Speaker 3: and its orders, and then never goes there again.
• 3:00:29
  Speaker 5: All in my gosh, that's that's one of the huge
• 3:00:32
  Speaker 5: mistakes mix.
• 3:00:33
  Speaker 16: Obviously, but I was going to say, like any good
• 3:00:35
  Speaker 16: business owner, you go create the business, you hire a manager,
• 3:00:38
  Speaker 16: you bounce out.
• 3:00:40
  Speaker 5: Profit that the voice in your head is constantly telling
• 3:00:45
  Speaker 5: you to kill him.
• 3:00:49
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of tame and dread in this book too,
• 3:00:51
  Speaker 3: because of the way that the Black Tower, like Rand
• 3:00:54
  Speaker 3: starts it and then runs away because killing kill it.
• 3:00:58
  Speaker 5: Right now, it's that whole scene with when when Time
• 3:01:00
  Speaker 5: first appears and uh but shear is like doesn't really
• 3:01:04
  Speaker 5: recognize him, and you're like, wait, doesn't he know what
• 3:01:07
  Speaker 5: he looks like? And it's like, yeah, it's a weird scene.
• 3:01:10
  Speaker 12: I shave my beard.
• 3:01:12
  Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's It's it's a big mistake
• 3:01:22
  Speaker 18: of Rand's Like would you go annoy your baby going?
• 3:01:26
  Speaker 16: I mean, I would argue that it wouldn't be such
• 3:01:29
  Speaker 16: a bad it wouldn't have been such a big mistake
• 3:01:32
  Speaker 16: had he not picked who he picked to run the
• 3:01:34
  Speaker 16: Black Tower. For example, if he had to put Logain
• 3:01:38
  Speaker 16: in charge of the Black Tower, if that had been
• 3:01:41
  Speaker 16: an option, he wouldn't have the same issue where it's like,
• 3:01:44
  Speaker 16: oh my god, you just put like one of the
• 3:01:46
  Speaker 16: new Forsaken guys in charge of your Black Tower. Like
• 3:01:49
  Speaker 16: that's the spiral if we're gonna talk real about it's
• 3:01:51
  Speaker 16: not the fact that he started up and then bounce,
• 3:01:54
  Speaker 16: because like we can't really expect the Dragon Reborn to
• 3:01:57
  Speaker 16: teach all these guys how to channel.
• 3:01:58
  Speaker 8: He barely learned how to channel himself.
• 3:02:01
  Speaker 5: It ends to have like quarterly check ins or some
• 3:02:03
  Speaker 5: sort of like auditing.
• 3:02:05
  Speaker 6: Have somebody that he trusts checking up on it.
• 3:02:08
  Speaker 16: But it wouldn't have been so bad put like Logan
• 3:02:10
  Speaker 16: or somebody else third party, not New Forsaken in charge.
• 3:02:15
  Speaker 4: And you know, I think that this is one of
• 3:02:17
  Speaker 4: those moments where Rand doesn't trust his gut and he should.
• 3:02:26
  Speaker 4: I just did chapter one of the Eye of the World.
• 3:02:29
  Speaker 4: I just did a video for it, and you know,
• 3:02:33
  Speaker 4: he was like trying to sort of put away thoughts
• 3:02:36
  Speaker 4: about you know, the mysterious writer on the road and
• 3:02:38
  Speaker 4: stuff like that, and I'm like dude, trust your gut.
• 3:02:41
  Speaker 4: If your gut is telling you that this is a
• 3:02:42
  Speaker 4: bad scene, trust it. And I think that there are
• 3:02:45
  Speaker 4: various points throughout the books where he, like, in his
• 3:02:49
  Speaker 4: head and in his heart, he knows that something isn't right,
• 3:02:52
  Speaker 4: but he ignores it because you know, he thinks that
• 3:02:55
  Speaker 4: it isn't possible, or you know, he does he doesn't
• 3:02:59
  Speaker 4: know what to do with it or whatever. Like his
• 3:03:02
  Speaker 4: head and his heart are telling me telling him the
• 3:03:04
  Speaker 4: team is not okay, But he doesn't trust his gut.
• 3:03:08
  Speaker 6: He doesn't trust it, and that.
• 3:03:12
  Speaker 5: I don't know if he doesn't trust it, I think
• 3:03:14
  Speaker 5: he keeps right, doesn't He constantly say, well, he's got
• 3:03:16
  Speaker 5: really he just doesn't have time and he's got no choice.
• 3:03:19
  Speaker 5: He doesn't really know what else to do.
• 3:03:21
  Speaker 17: Yeah, he's got like limited options.
• 3:03:22
  Speaker 12: He's like, this person is obviously a piece of shit,
• 3:03:25
  Speaker 12: but I don't have very much.
• 3:03:28
  Speaker 6: I suppose that's valid.
• 3:03:30
  Speaker 5: And I mean to be honest, if he puts somebody
• 3:03:32
  Speaker 5: else in charge of the Black Tower and not somebody
• 3:03:34
  Speaker 5: else form it, would that person have come and slaved
• 3:03:37
  Speaker 5: him at two mile as wells?
• 3:03:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what I'm saying.
• 3:03:40
  Speaker 16: It's like there's if there were options, I don't know,
• 3:03:43
  Speaker 16: but it's like the option he picked wasn't obviously Yeah, yeah,
• 3:03:46
  Speaker 16: I mean the.
• 3:03:47
  Speaker 2: Gain is still still when that choice gets mad.
• 3:03:49
  Speaker 16: Yeah, And that's why I said if he had options,
• 3:03:52
  Speaker 16: and that's the big big question mark.
• 3:03:54
  Speaker 3: If so, and then yeah, he assumes that his gut
• 3:03:57
  Speaker 3: is ltt He's like, I'm going insane and I have
• 3:04:00
  Speaker 3: a voice in my head.
• 3:04:01
  Speaker 2: My gut is definitely not trustworthy right now. It's like
• 3:04:05
  Speaker 2: nine of the time, you're right.
• 3:04:07
  Speaker 5: But you know what, his gut isn't telling him to
• 3:04:09
  Speaker 5: kill all the other people that he kind of trusts.
• 3:04:12
  Speaker 4: So this is what I'm saying, Like this is a
• 3:04:17
  Speaker 4: pretty big one where like.
• 3:04:20
  Speaker 16: You should still be like putting a big if you
• 3:04:22
  Speaker 16: have any voice in your head ever that's like, hey,
• 3:04:25
  Speaker 16: just kill this one guy, just the one dude, nobody else.
• 3:04:28
  Speaker 16: It's like, as soon as you kill that one dude,
• 3:04:30
  Speaker 16: it's going to be somebody else next. It's like, you
• 3:04:32
  Speaker 16: gotta be real cautious because that's a very slow Okay,
• 3:04:38
  Speaker 16: now we killed the one guy, let's go get the
• 3:04:40
  Speaker 16: next guy.
• 3:04:41
  Speaker 2: Like you're like justifying everything.
• 3:04:43
  Speaker 5: And it's a good point. That's a good point. Just
• 3:04:47
  Speaker 5: a little taste just to get you through the day.
• 3:04:52
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's uh, the Black Tower has a really
• 3:04:55
  Speaker 3: outsized influence on the rest of the series given how
• 3:04:59
  Speaker 3: little effort and actually puts into it.
• 3:05:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope they treat it a little differently in
• 3:05:05
  Speaker 5: the show.
• 3:05:06
  Speaker 16: But but I will I will, I will say they
• 3:05:08
  Speaker 16: have a way better recruiting strategy than the White Tower does.
• 3:05:12
  Speaker 2: Recruiting strategy.
• 3:05:14
  Speaker 16: That's better recruiting strategy. And I mean we can get
• 3:05:18
  Speaker 16: into the whole like the White Tower is ineffectual because
• 3:05:21
  Speaker 16: of the like Black Aja slash issuy like that was
• 3:05:24
  Speaker 16: totally his doing.
• 3:05:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we.
• 3:05:28
  Speaker 6: Set themselves up for that.
• 3:05:30
  Speaker 4: You know, they they're in their whole sort of arrogance thinking, okay,
• 3:05:36
  Speaker 4: well where I said I we're beyond reproach and all
• 3:05:38
  Speaker 4: of this other bullshit, like we're too cool to go
• 3:05:41
  Speaker 4: looking for other people who can channel.
• 3:05:43
  Speaker 12: Like there's a portion of that their numbers are dwindling.
• 3:05:47
  Speaker 6: Do you really think that there aren't other women out
• 3:05:49
  Speaker 6: there who can channel?
• 3:05:50
  Speaker 5: Well, they're also calling the ability out to channel by
• 3:05:52
  Speaker 5: not I use the word breeding, but by not you know,
• 3:05:56
  Speaker 5: literally breeding.
• 3:05:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and that that's something that I talked
• 3:05:59
  Speaker 4: about on my podcast too, is that you know, by
• 3:06:03
  Speaker 4: essentially turning the White Tower into a convent and you know,
• 3:06:09
  Speaker 4: none of them having families.
• 3:06:10
  Speaker 13: And killing all the male chandelers are gentlely, all of them.
• 3:06:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, where are your next cropit Chandler is going to
• 3:06:17
  Speaker 4: come from.
• 3:06:18
  Speaker 12: Well, the White Tower is kind of like an elite
• 3:06:20
  Speaker 12: service academy where you have to work really hard to
• 3:06:23
  Speaker 12: try to get in. And then Black Tower is basically
• 3:06:26
  Speaker 12: like you know, your regular enlisted troops, where you've got
• 3:06:30
  Speaker 12: people in charge of recruiting going out there and desperately
• 3:06:33
  Speaker 12: trying to get their quotas. So you're going to get
• 3:06:35
  Speaker 12: a lot more soldiers and that's just kind of like
• 3:06:39
  Speaker 12: completely different, you know, way of filling your.
• 3:06:42
  Speaker 5: Ranks, and their training is much more intense where it's
• 3:06:46
  Speaker 5: just like everybody use the power all the time.
• 3:06:50
  Speaker 13: You guys need to get trained fast.
• 3:06:52
  Speaker 16: Hey, tell me it doesn't work, Tell me it doesn't work.
• 3:06:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And if you die or you burn yourself out,
• 3:06:57
  Speaker 5: tough luck.
• 3:06:59
  Speaker 2: Enough numbers, you've got it right.
• 3:07:01
  Speaker 3: If you have enough recruits, you can afford to crack
• 3:07:03
  Speaker 3: a few eggs as a problem.
• 3:07:05
  Speaker 16: And it's kind of funny because I would argue that
• 3:07:06
  Speaker 16: both towers Black and White are heavily inspired by the
• 3:07:10
  Speaker 16: Black Aja slash like the forsaken influence on it. So
• 3:07:13
  Speaker 16: I mean that's why you see all these like issues
• 3:07:17
  Speaker 16: arising in them. It's like they're very near to each other.
• 3:07:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the White Tower ostensibly didn't cut a
• 3:07:24
  Speaker 3: black Augia until almost a thousand years after its founding
• 3:07:28
  Speaker 3: during the Trollic.
• 3:07:28
  Speaker 16: Wars, and then we're talking like thirty percent of their
• 3:07:31
  Speaker 16: numbers are you know.
• 3:07:33
  Speaker 3: But then the Black Tower is like, so as of
• 3:07:36
  Speaker 3: right now, day one ribbon cutting, we're run by Black
• 3:07:39
  Speaker 3: Aja Bailic cuivalent, so they've got way higher percentage.
• 3:07:44
  Speaker 16: Of yeah, which I think is one of the best
• 3:07:46
  Speaker 16: moves Issue ever did was like create that and like
• 3:07:49
  Speaker 16: set up everything so that it's so ineffectual. Because if you,
• 3:07:52
  Speaker 16: for example, if you broke the White Tower down to
• 3:07:55
  Speaker 16: where it's nothing, then a more competent White Tower can
• 3:07:58
  Speaker 16: come up in this in its place. But if you
• 3:08:00
  Speaker 16: just make the existing one really really shitty, then all
• 3:08:03
  Speaker 16: you're going to ever have is that one really shitty
• 3:08:05
  Speaker 16: White tower, which is why when the Saladar split happened,
• 3:08:08
  Speaker 16: you start to kind of get those two sides that
• 3:08:10
  Speaker 16: like rival against each other. It's the whole competition breeds
• 3:08:14
  Speaker 16: you know, ingenuity and everything like that too.
• 3:08:16
  Speaker 4: So the fact that Saladar was run by Comberly, who
• 3:08:24
  Speaker 4: had absolutely no problem whatsoever saying fuck off to the rules.
• 3:08:28
  Speaker 4: She's like, I don't care if that's how always how
• 3:08:29
  Speaker 4: it's been done. We're not doing that anymore. We're going
• 3:08:32
  Speaker 4: to do this. And she was successful, wildly successful, so
• 3:08:37
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 3:08:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So so the.
• 3:08:41
  Speaker 3: Book where GWayne gets raised, she doesn't really get to
• 3:08:45
  Speaker 3: that point where she truly flexes her power. This is
• 3:08:47
  Speaker 3: very much her as playing docile and learning the game,
• 3:08:51
  Speaker 3: getting connected with Swan.
• 3:08:52
  Speaker 4: But like and my girl playing chess while everybody else
• 3:08:55
  Speaker 4: is playing checkers.
• 3:08:57
  Speaker 3: She sets up so much in this book that doesn't
• 3:08:59
  Speaker 3: pay off for a book or two. But like, this
• 3:09:01
  Speaker 3: is a book where you know what she's gonna do.
• 3:09:02
  Speaker 6: You're like, oh, girl, I can't wait to get back
• 3:09:06
  Speaker 6: to that.
• 3:09:06
  Speaker 4: So like knowing what I know now, like getting back
• 3:09:10
  Speaker 4: to that and seeing all of the groundwork, Like it's
• 3:09:15
  Speaker 4: really fun.
• 3:09:15
  Speaker 12: Yes, I love her, Like reading through the Dragon Were
• 3:09:18
  Speaker 12: Born and she gets back into the White Tower and
• 3:09:20
  Speaker 12: just looking through her point of views and her observations.
• 3:09:23
  Speaker 12: You get to see some of her just utterly innate
• 3:09:26
  Speaker 12: talent for the Game of Houses, and how he wrote
• 3:09:28
  Speaker 12: her from the beginning to just be like so good
• 3:09:31
  Speaker 12: at what she's gonna do, you know, even when she's
• 3:09:35
  Speaker 12: just like in her afraid state. So yeah, it's like
• 3:09:38
  Speaker 12: it's super exciting. I'm excited to do episodes about her.
• 3:09:41
  Speaker 12: That's gonna be so much fun.
• 3:09:43
  Speaker 16: And then you get Robert Jordan as like a total
• 3:09:45
  Speaker 16: asshole to us in book one, having Moraine say like, oh, Aguain,
• 3:09:50
  Speaker 16: if you keep it up, you're gonna be amerlyn Sea
• 3:09:52
  Speaker 16: one day? Are you seriously doing this to be here?
• 3:09:55
  Speaker 12: So my wife is reading the eye of the world
• 3:09:58
  Speaker 12: right now. That's gonna be more bo his content that
• 3:10:00
  Speaker 12: I've have as we're doing pillow talk with Pillow friends,
• 3:10:03
  Speaker 12: because before we go to love that we're lying of
• 3:10:07
  Speaker 12: it and I just like record her thoughts, and she
• 3:10:10
  Speaker 12: was talking about how it seems really strange that Mourain,
• 3:10:13
  Speaker 12: who doesn't seem like somebody who would share very much,
• 3:10:16
  Speaker 12: is gonna say something. Is you know, like that a
• 3:10:20
  Speaker 12: GWayne would be you know, the ambulance seat one day.
• 3:10:23
  Speaker 12: She's like that seems like an awful lot, even if
• 3:10:25
  Speaker 12: you were trying to build somebody up, and I'm just
• 3:10:27
  Speaker 12: sort of like foreshadowing.
• 3:10:29
  Speaker 6: You know, and she's like it's a check off compliment.
• 3:10:32
  Speaker 12: And then she's like, so I'm feeling like she's trying
• 3:10:35
  Speaker 12: to like, you know, buying to GWayne, to her more,
• 3:10:38
  Speaker 12: because if Agwayne is like her ally and is like
• 3:10:41
  Speaker 12: really you know, like totally wrapped up in her, She's like,
• 3:10:44
  Speaker 12: who is Rand gonna follow to the end of the
• 3:10:46
  Speaker 12: earth and follow to the end of the earth and
• 3:10:48
  Speaker 12: Matt's gonna go with Rand? And she's like so she's
• 3:10:50
  Speaker 12: like made this whole change just by like totally flattering
• 3:10:53
  Speaker 12: at GWayne. And I'm just sort of like, you know,
• 3:10:56
  Speaker 12: that's really smart. That's kind of like I'm like that
• 3:11:00
  Speaker 12: so layered of my foreshadowing, and that actually seems kind
• 3:11:04
  Speaker 12: of brilliant.
• 3:11:05
  Speaker 16: And so I got stuff like that in and You're like,
• 3:11:09
  Speaker 16: I can't believe you just put that black and white
• 3:11:11
  Speaker 16: for me to look at and read.
• 3:11:14
  Speaker 11: Yeah, the audacity, Yeah, like come on, And that's why
• 3:11:20
  Speaker 11: the whole like read things so important, because he's just like,
• 3:11:23
  Speaker 11: look at all the stuff he shoved in your face.
• 3:11:25
  Speaker 12: I know, I'm so excited, and I was like, I've
• 3:11:27
  Speaker 12: read this book dozens of times that I didn't even
• 3:11:29
  Speaker 12: ever see that. I'm like, you know, it's not just foreshadowing,
• 3:11:32
  Speaker 12: that's deep. Yeah, super excited.
• 3:11:35
  Speaker 4: So when I started reading these books, it was on
• 3:11:38
  Speaker 4: the recommendation of a guy from Canada who was in
• 3:11:41
  Speaker 4: my guild.
• 3:11:42
  Speaker 6: In Lord of the Rings online.
• 3:11:45
  Speaker 2: It was it was Dave.
• 3:11:47
  Speaker 12: No, his name was.
• 3:11:50
  Speaker 8: That's a little.
• 3:11:54
  Speaker 4: I think I got it, but yeah, I when I
• 3:11:59
  Speaker 4: started it, I had absolutely no idea just the layers.
• 3:12:04
  Speaker 16: Yeah, well, even like book one when Matt is like
• 3:12:10
  Speaker 16: the amount of times and in book one and two
• 3:12:12
  Speaker 16: that Matt like wrings his hands around his neck because
• 3:12:16
  Speaker 16: he almost got strangled, the amount of times that that
• 3:12:19
  Speaker 16: happens is outrageous.
• 3:12:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the amount of time, all of it.
• 3:12:24
  Speaker 16: He gets hooked by Charlock, like those little the ring
• 3:12:27
  Speaker 16: hooks every time. Every time they're around. It's like Matt
• 3:12:34
  Speaker 16: gets tucked and almost dragged off. He's like, oh man,
• 3:12:37
  Speaker 16: almost got choked out. It's like you can't do that
• 3:12:40
  Speaker 16: to me.
• 3:12:41
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 3:12:42
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 3:12:43
  Speaker 3: You think you know everything, and then you're like, wait,
• 3:12:46
  Speaker 3: every single word was actually placed very carefully, and.
• 3:12:50
  Speaker 4: Then you're like, okay, it's fourteen books, and you planned
• 3:12:53
  Speaker 4: all of this like detailed ass shit from the very beginning.
• 3:12:59
  Speaker 3: My yeah, there was a point somewhere in this book.
• 3:13:04
  Speaker 2: I remember where we found rocks.
• 3:13:06
  Speaker 3: Matt was juggling rocks and they perfectly matched up with
• 3:13:11
  Speaker 3: all of the generals in the band that had just
• 3:13:13
  Speaker 3: formed behind him, and I'm just like.
• 3:13:15
  Speaker 2: The rocks are for your current shadowing. I'm just oh, Roberts, Yeah, yeah.
• 3:13:22
  Speaker 12: I my wife, I'm like, because I told her, I'm like, yeah,
• 3:13:26
  Speaker 12: there's stuff in these books that suck, but it's like
• 3:13:28
  Speaker 12: there's so much that I was like, he sucks at
• 3:13:32
  Speaker 12: giggling girls talking about boys, but holy shit, this stuff.
• 3:13:37
  Speaker 16: Yeah, it's like the people that Matt was dicing we're
• 3:13:40
  Speaker 16: playing cards with when he gets attacked by the playing cards, Like, oh,
• 3:13:43
  Speaker 16: every single one of those guys is important, Okay, yeah,
• 3:13:48
  Speaker 16: like these aren't just like like I could easily see
• 3:13:50
  Speaker 16: writing a book and just like putting in random names
• 3:13:52
  Speaker 16: of people that he's playing cards with because why does
• 3:13:55
  Speaker 16: it matter?
• 3:13:56
  Speaker 2: But then it like comes back, so yeah, you.
• 3:13:59
  Speaker 5: Gotta know which of the two thousand names are important?
• 3:14:03
  Speaker 3: Some of them seven books she had, like this one's
• 3:14:10
  Speaker 3: gonna pay off right or like in this one, like
• 3:14:12
  Speaker 3: Katerine shows up and like she becomes very relevant in
• 3:14:17
  Speaker 3: three books or whatever.
• 3:14:19
  Speaker 2: Like she just shows up a tiny little bit here,
• 3:14:20
  Speaker 2: but like she is gonna you're gonna hate her later.
• 3:14:23
  Speaker 2: I mean you hate her now, but.
• 3:14:24
  Speaker 6: Like you're gonna hate her even more get ready.
• 3:14:28
  Speaker 2: She will stay true to her awful character. What you're
• 3:14:35
  Speaker 2: doing now, I was gonna say, it's sticking in Saladar,
• 3:14:38
  Speaker 2: we also have naive healing stilling.
• 3:14:43
  Speaker 12: Amazing.
• 3:14:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like she's literally just in there dicking around, and
• 3:14:49
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, she's like, oh, I fixed it.
• 3:14:53
  Speaker 3: She's distracted, she's angry, she's irritated.
• 3:14:57
  Speaker 16: Like that's like a perfect incauction for you brain. Though,
• 3:15:00
  Speaker 16: Like I don't know if you guys are the same,
• 3:15:01
  Speaker 16: but if you have something you have to work on,
• 3:15:03
  Speaker 16: like go do some housework or something like monotonous like
• 3:15:06
  Speaker 16: my thing's yard work in the summertime, when that's a possibility,
• 3:15:10
  Speaker 16: it's like, if you have something, you got to think
• 3:15:11
  Speaker 16: and figure out perfect timing because like you let your
• 3:15:14
  Speaker 16: brain work in the background. And that's what's happening with Ninib.
• 3:15:17
  Speaker 16: It's like she's she knows what she knows and she's
• 3:15:19
  Speaker 16: going to figure it out.
• 3:15:23
  Speaker 12: I like doing like, you know, like a assembly work.
• 3:15:26
  Speaker 12: Working in a factory was so good for writing. It
• 3:15:29
  Speaker 12: was like the minute I switched to that type of genreilot, Yeah,
• 3:15:33
  Speaker 12: I started writing a book like the first week because
• 3:15:35
  Speaker 12: I was just kind of like, yeah, doing that type
• 3:15:37
  Speaker 12: of work and just daydreaming all of it with the
• 3:15:39
  Speaker 12: front of my brain and just doing everything in the back.
• 3:15:41
  Speaker 12: It's great.
• 3:15:42
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 3:15:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's one of the things I loved about working
• 3:15:45
  Speaker 2: at the library.
• 3:15:46
  Speaker 3: It was like, I'm like learning all the time, and
• 3:15:48
  Speaker 3: then sometimes if you just get a break and.
• 3:15:50
  Speaker 2: Just go put stuff in order. Yeah, that's what I
• 3:15:53
  Speaker 2: got to do, is just put things into order.
• 3:15:55
  Speaker 5: And they're trying to also break her block right at
• 3:15:58
  Speaker 5: this time, right w Dren is trying all these crazy
• 3:16:02
  Speaker 5: tactics to try to break her block. She's got her
• 3:16:05
  Speaker 5: like standing like standing on stools and all kinds of
• 3:16:08
  Speaker 5: weird things.
• 3:16:08
  Speaker 2: Jump up and down.
• 3:16:10
  Speaker 12: I'm drunk, smacking her face.
• 3:16:12
  Speaker 3: And then and then they they're like threatening her to
• 3:16:14
  Speaker 3: make her angry, right because she heals she heals logane,
• 3:16:17
  Speaker 3: and they're like worried she's going to lose it before
• 3:16:19
  Speaker 3: they get her to Swan, and Leanna's like threatening her.
• 3:16:23
  Speaker 5: Yes a barrel to get her to do it to
• 3:16:27
  Speaker 5: Swan and Leanna, uh that it's such a cool. Oh,
• 3:16:31
  Speaker 5: that's such a great scene when she heals, that's like
• 3:16:33
  Speaker 5: a game changer.
• 3:16:34
  Speaker 13: That's a huge pivotal moment in the entire series.
• 3:16:37
  Speaker 16: For sure, for many reasons, but also like Logan's reaction
• 3:16:41
  Speaker 16: to it, Like Logan is such a critical I'm so
• 3:16:43
  Speaker 16: excited that they catch them so early because clearly is
• 3:16:45
  Speaker 16: going to play a bigger role on the TV show too. Yeah,
• 3:16:47
  Speaker 16: and it's a whole Like I understand, you got to
• 3:16:49
  Speaker 16: make the characters you do have bigger because anyone watching
• 3:16:51
  Speaker 16: the TV show, like people like regular people aren't going
• 3:16:54
  Speaker 16: to keep two thousand characters in they're bringing.
• 3:16:56
  Speaker 2: Like I get that, I understand that.
• 3:16:59
  Speaker 16: Why not we can do Yeah, But like I just
• 3:17:06
  Speaker 16: like feel lowgain because it's and I can't imagine because
• 3:17:09
  Speaker 16: I've never like lost a limb, but like if you
• 3:17:11
  Speaker 16: lost an arm and then all of a sudden, someone
• 3:17:13
  Speaker 16: like reattaches it, the first thing you do is you
• 3:17:16
  Speaker 16: would flex that just to like re like feel again
• 3:17:19
  Speaker 16: the thing that you lost, and you feel Logain just
• 3:17:21
  Speaker 16: like have that power and not wanting to hurt niney Eve,
• 3:17:25
  Speaker 16: but like just pushing against that shield that she's like
• 3:17:28
  Speaker 16: forced on them, right, And it's just such a powerful moment.
• 3:17:32
  Speaker 5: And how do you show that on TV too, because
• 3:17:35
  Speaker 5: it's all like it's on the eyes.
• 3:17:37
  Speaker 16: Yeah, they're going to do some sort of something around
• 3:17:41
  Speaker 16: people to like show us that they're doing stuff.
• 3:17:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's gotta be like channeling has got to be
• 3:17:46
  Speaker 4: a visual thing.
• 3:17:48
  Speaker 6: And I am so curious to know how they're going.
• 3:17:50
  Speaker 12: To do it.
• 3:17:51
  Speaker 6: And I hope that it doesn't look stupid like it really, I.
• 3:17:55
  Speaker 8: Don't think they will.
• 3:17:56
  Speaker 16: I I have enough faith in the people making the
• 3:17:58
  Speaker 16: show that they're not going to do it stupid. Like,
• 3:18:00
  Speaker 16: you know, people care about this show, and we have
• 3:18:03
  Speaker 16: people working on the show who care about and that's important.
• 3:18:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Rape said right when he saw Channing, he saw channeling,
• 3:18:09
  Speaker 5: and he tweeted about it and he said he was
• 3:18:11
  Speaker 5: like screaming, like when he saw Moran channeling. He was
• 3:18:15
  Speaker 5: He's like, I started, I.
• 3:18:16
  Speaker 7: Forgot about that.
• 3:18:19
  Speaker 2: That's a good thing.
• 3:18:19
  Speaker 6: I only forgot about that.
• 3:18:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:18:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like and I mean ninety nine percent of
• 3:18:25
  Speaker 4: me has absolute faith that it's going to be amazing
• 3:18:29
  Speaker 4: because of the people that they have working on it,
• 3:18:31
  Speaker 4: and they're obviously passionate and they're knowledgeable, and they're taking
• 3:18:33
  Speaker 4: it seriously. And then there's like one percent of me
• 3:18:36
  Speaker 4: who's like, okay, but you can go in with the
• 3:18:38
  Speaker 4: absolute best intentions and a thing can still end up.
• 3:18:42
  Speaker 6: Being bad, And so I tried not to think about that.
• 3:18:48
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh man, channel is one of the few
• 3:18:51
  Speaker 3: things I'm really worried about, like way more than casting
• 3:18:54
  Speaker 3: or set design or plot manipulation.
• 3:18:56
  Speaker 2: It's I think it'll be more visible.
• 3:18:59
  Speaker 16: Like I don't because I know in the books obviously
• 3:19:01
  Speaker 16: it's like you can't see flows of what other people
• 3:19:04
  Speaker 16: are doing. It's just like a not visible thing. So
• 3:19:05
  Speaker 16: you get that what was it Ninive and Mogedian stand
• 3:19:09
  Speaker 16: off or you're just staring and then you totally have
• 3:19:12
  Speaker 16: like you know, stan Lee Hologram coming and dusting in
• 3:19:15
  Speaker 16: the background for something like that. Well, they're just like
• 3:19:20
  Speaker 16: having that face off. But like I feel like they're
• 3:19:22
  Speaker 16: gonna make it a visible thing so they can show
• 3:19:24
  Speaker 16: us as the vieworst that what's happening. Like I can't
• 3:19:27
  Speaker 16: imagine they do it invisible.
• 3:19:28
  Speaker 5: I think it's gonna be visible. It's gonna be both
• 3:19:31
  Speaker 5: because I think if like you're in a perspective of
• 3:19:34
  Speaker 5: a character who can channel your paid yeah, but if
• 3:19:38
  Speaker 5: you are in a perspective of kind of character can channel,
• 3:19:40
  Speaker 5: you'll probably start seeing it. And I think you're gonna
• 3:19:43
  Speaker 5: get to a point where there's yeah, and you're gonna
• 3:19:45
  Speaker 5: get to a point where there's so much channeling going
• 3:19:47
  Speaker 5: on it doesn't matter. Yeah, you're not gonna be able
• 3:19:49
  Speaker 5: to show all, Like the screen is just gonna be
• 3:19:52
  Speaker 5: covered in all kinds of colored weaves and things like that.
• 3:19:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, great, I'm so here for it.
• 3:19:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, seriously fucking stoked about I'm so excited about it.
• 3:20:03
  Speaker 4: I think one of the really interesting things that Robert
• 3:20:05
  Speaker 4: Jordan did with with healing Stilling and Gentleng is that
• 3:20:11
  Speaker 4: you know, Ninave healed Logan and he was like back
• 3:20:15
  Speaker 4: at full capacity, but when she healed Leanne Swan, they
• 3:20:21
  Speaker 4: could channel.
• 3:20:22
  Speaker 6: Again, but they were very weak. And it's just it.
• 3:20:24
  Speaker 4: Was one more way that he wove in this whole.
• 3:20:27
  Speaker 4: Like they're supposed to be doing this together, you know,
• 3:20:32
  Speaker 4: half half of it isn't sufficient. I just I thought
• 3:20:37
  Speaker 4: that it was just an interesting thing that he's stuck
• 3:20:41
  Speaker 4: in there.
• 3:20:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because we do see it going the other way.
• 3:20:45
  Speaker 3: We know for a fact that a man can heal
• 3:20:47
  Speaker 3: a woman to full capacity later Yeah, yeah, we don't
• 3:20:54
  Speaker 3: actually ever see if he tries to heal a burned
• 3:20:57
  Speaker 3: out male chandler, So yeah, we can assume it goes
• 3:21:01
  Speaker 3: the same way.
• 3:21:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:21:02
  Speaker 16: I don't see why it would be different at that
• 3:21:05
  Speaker 16: level of things.
• 3:21:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they develop the weaves differently, So like, yeah.
• 3:21:09
  Speaker 13: Does anybody who gets burnt out get heeled.
• 3:21:12
  Speaker 2: Of the burning?
• 3:21:13
  Speaker 8: I don't think you can.
• 3:21:15
  Speaker 5: You can.
• 3:21:16
  Speaker 2: No one ever tries. But it doesn't make sense.
• 3:21:18
  Speaker 12: They don't show it in the text, but in the
• 3:21:20
  Speaker 12: Wheel of Time Companion when they're talking about so's how
• 3:21:23
  Speaker 12: and yes, the ninety wasn't able to hear.
• 3:21:26
  Speaker 13: Yeah, that's right, that's right.
• 3:21:28
  Speaker 16: It's like the difference like being cut versus being like
• 3:21:31
  Speaker 16: torn apart, because if.
• 3:21:32
  Speaker 5: You're cut, you can still sense it, but you just
• 3:21:34
  Speaker 5: can't touch it. When you're burned out, you can't even
• 3:21:36
  Speaker 5: sense it.
• 3:21:37
  Speaker 3: The thing in your soul that lets you do it
• 3:21:39
  Speaker 3: has been damaged as opposed to your your ability to
• 3:21:42
  Speaker 3: reach out being.
• 3:21:43
  Speaker 5: Cut, that's right, that's deep.
• 3:21:44
  Speaker 13: Part of your soul is gone.
• 3:21:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's uh sucks, yeah.
• 3:21:51
  Speaker 6: Real bad.
• 3:22:04
  Speaker 3: But it's kind of amazing that it gets healed so
• 3:22:07
  Speaker 3: soon in the series, Like it feels like it's such
• 3:22:11
  Speaker 3: a big deal, but like later, but like it actually
• 3:22:16
  Speaker 3: happens like mid series. I mean, it's not cleansing, but
• 3:22:20
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like the cleansing. It's on par with
• 3:22:22
  Speaker 3: that for blowing all the channelers's minds.
• 3:22:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's I mean, I would say it's not necessarily
• 3:22:29
  Speaker 4: at the exact same level, but it's like maybe one.
• 3:22:33
  Speaker 6: Step below, maybe one step.
• 3:22:36
  Speaker 4: Like because I mean, it's a huge deal to be
• 3:22:39
  Speaker 4: able to heal somebody who has been still there, gentle.
• 3:22:42
  Speaker 6: But then.
• 3:22:46
  Speaker 4: This whole thing, like what caused the whole problem in
• 3:22:49
  Speaker 4: the first place, is now gone. You're not going to
• 3:22:55
  Speaker 4: go crazy anymore. Then can safely channel now.
• 3:22:58
  Speaker 5: Like that's a bigger gift. It's next level.
• 3:23:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's like that's paradigm shit shit, you know, yeah.
• 3:23:06
  Speaker 5: Sure, but I would like to say that when Nive
• 3:23:08
  Speaker 5: heal Stilling, that is shit that even in the age
• 3:23:12
  Speaker 5: of Legends, they couldn't do.
• 3:23:14
  Speaker 6: That's true.
• 3:23:15
  Speaker 5: So this has never been done, I mean, at least
• 3:23:17
  Speaker 5: in you know, I guess this turning of the wheel
• 3:23:20
  Speaker 5: that we know of at that point has never been
• 3:23:22
  Speaker 5: done before. So this is like, you know, there was
• 3:23:26
  Speaker 5: no taint obviously, so obviously you can't heal the taint
• 3:23:28
  Speaker 5: until this point. But no one, even in the Age
• 3:23:30
  Speaker 5: of Legends, when they were doing all kinds of amazing things,
• 3:23:33
  Speaker 5: they did not or could not heal.
• 3:23:37
  Speaker 16: Your girls an innovator, Well, you kind of have to
• 3:23:40
  Speaker 16: wonder why, because like how often did stilling and gentling
• 3:23:43
  Speaker 16: happen in the Age of Legends?
• 3:23:44
  Speaker 2: And like for what reason would they try to heal it?
• 3:23:48
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 3:23:48
  Speaker 16: Like I got to understand them trying to heal being
• 3:23:50
  Speaker 16: burned out, because that's like a oh shit, an accident happened,
• 3:23:53
  Speaker 16: let's try and fix it, right, But then it wouldn't work,
• 3:23:57
  Speaker 16: and it didn't work because you can't heal something that's
• 3:23:59
  Speaker 16: burnt and the ripped out. But then, like, in what
• 3:24:02
  Speaker 16: context would it be where someone got gentle slash stilled
• 3:24:05
  Speaker 16: and then them try to heal it, Like would that
• 3:24:07
  Speaker 16: be because I don't necessarily think we get a lot
• 3:24:10
  Speaker 16: of background when or if that happened, because even for
• 3:24:13
  Speaker 16: like criminals and everything they had that was with the
• 3:24:15
  Speaker 16: oath throats are far right, right, yeah, like we don't
• 3:24:18
  Speaker 16: necessarily know, Like I can't remember if the if there
• 3:24:21
  Speaker 16: was ever like a punishment of being job distilled for crimes.
• 3:24:25
  Speaker 5: I feel like true, I feel like one of the forsaken.
• 3:24:28
  Speaker 5: I feel like because I think we did. It might
• 3:24:29
  Speaker 5: have been Agona or Balcommel. I think at one point
• 3:24:32
  Speaker 5: in their careers, back in the age of Legends, they
• 3:24:35
  Speaker 5: were almost at the point of being stilled. But I
• 3:24:39
  Speaker 5: don't don't like quote me on that.
• 3:24:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what I'm saying.
• 3:24:42
  Speaker 16: It's like I could totally see that someone being burned
• 3:24:45
  Speaker 16: out and like all the best healers trying to figure
• 3:24:47
  Speaker 16: it out, and they're like, Nope, we can't figure it out,
• 3:24:49
  Speaker 16: can't be done, So why would they try for then
• 3:24:51
  Speaker 16: someone gentle slash stilled.
• 3:24:53
  Speaker 5: That's true.
• 3:24:53
  Speaker 2: That's kind of like my thought process online.
• 3:24:55
  Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, yeah, that's really try try to
• 3:24:58
  Speaker 5: belittle what Ninetive did. I hear what you do, but.
• 3:25:00
  Speaker 16: Exactly taken down a couple of pigs.
• 3:25:06
  Speaker 12: Some got threatened with stilling, and they were basically like,
• 3:25:10
  Speaker 12: you can be stilled or you can swear on the
• 3:25:13
  Speaker 12: oath raw that you will never sadistically torture people again.
• 3:25:17
  Speaker 12: And she's like you, I'm gonna go wear my soul
• 3:25:20
  Speaker 12: in the dark one instead.
• 3:25:21
  Speaker 8: You can all suck it shot.
• 3:25:24
  Speaker 16: So that's why you fire people on Fridays.
• 3:25:28
  Speaker 5: Likely that way, if they come back to the office
• 3:25:32
  Speaker 5: the next day, there's nobody there exactly.
• 3:25:43
  Speaker 3: Do you want to move on other important things that
• 3:25:45
  Speaker 3: happened this book?
• 3:25:46
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about is that Oliver arrives.
• 3:25:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Oliver.
• 3:25:51
  Speaker 3: Oliver shows up in and that's just everyone's favorite character,
• 3:25:55
  Speaker 3: I think, short of Bella, which you know, Bella and
• 3:25:57
  Speaker 3: Oliver go together at a point.
• 3:25:58
  Speaker 16: So and I love was the speculation back in the
• 3:26:01
  Speaker 16: day of Oliver and man, oh my god, so much like.
• 3:26:07
  Speaker 5: The ages didn't line up, we just kept going. And
• 3:26:12
  Speaker 5: I think r J flat out said he's not him.
• 3:26:14
  Speaker 4: But.
• 3:26:16
  Speaker 6: We don't care.
• 3:26:18
  Speaker 2: We don't care.
• 3:26:19
  Speaker 4: Well, and honestly, it's plausible because older is like what
• 3:26:22
  Speaker 4: eight plus?
• 3:26:29
  Speaker 7: Then that was everybody's premise. That must.
• 3:26:36
  Speaker 8: Short and ugly.
• 3:26:37
  Speaker 12: Well, the way until I run Riod works, like the
• 3:26:40
  Speaker 12: time is a little skewed, so it seems like conceivable.
• 3:26:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:26:43
  Speaker 12: I was one of those people who thought that he
• 3:26:45
  Speaker 12: was and was frankly disappointed that he wasn't because you know,
• 3:26:48
  Speaker 12: I mean, come.
• 3:26:49
  Speaker 5: On, why not.
• 3:26:51
  Speaker 4: Well, if if Burgina hadn't been booted out of a
• 3:26:54
  Speaker 4: tele Roun riot, like she could have been on the
• 3:26:57
  Speaker 4: verge of being spun back out again. And like, look,
• 3:27:01
  Speaker 4: my husband and I are eight and a half years apart.
• 3:27:02
  Speaker 4: It's not unheard of, Like.
• 3:27:04
  Speaker 17: Uh yeah, my wife is a lot younger than I am.
• 3:27:08
  Speaker 8: So yeah, I know.
• 3:27:09
  Speaker 5: I feel like there's something in there that says there
• 3:27:11
  Speaker 5: always spun out like at the almost like very on
• 3:27:14
  Speaker 5: the right.
• 3:27:14
  Speaker 13: Like around the same time. Yeah, and every time, which
• 3:27:18
  Speaker 13: was weird.
• 3:27:18
  Speaker 5: I think I said. They mentioned it's like an odd
• 3:27:20
  Speaker 5: thing that they're always spun out though almost exactly around
• 3:27:23
  Speaker 5: the same time that.
• 3:27:24
  Speaker 6: Fucking saw me right there.
• 3:27:25
  Speaker 16: Yeah, Brigidi's comeback after the whole murder murdery death thing
• 3:27:31
  Speaker 16: like that. I'm pretty sure I literally cheered out loud
• 3:27:34
  Speaker 16: when Brigidia came back.
• 3:27:35
  Speaker 12: I think I did too.
• 3:27:36
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 3:27:38
  Speaker 8: It was probably like two thirty in the morning or something.
• 3:27:40
  Speaker 16: Everybody's sleeping, and it's like, yeah, yeah, I.
• 3:27:45
  Speaker 2: Was standing out there in the yard like with my
• 3:27:46
  Speaker 2: break just like you.
• 3:27:48
  Speaker 12: Girl, she's not dead forever.
• 3:27:52
  Speaker 2: Tick that in alarm you can, Yeah, that's with Oliver.
• 3:27:58
  Speaker 2: It was always like you see gitl Caine in the
• 3:28:01
  Speaker 2: dream and.
• 3:28:02
  Speaker 3: You also see Oliver, so it's like this doesn't quite work,
• 3:28:05
  Speaker 3: but it's like, I mean, I'll allow it if Robert
• 3:28:07
  Speaker 3: Jordan will.
• 3:28:08
  Speaker 12: Well title Caine is gone before Burgita gets ripped away,
• 3:28:13
  Speaker 12: so he's missing by the fires of Heaven and we
• 3:28:16
  Speaker 12: don't see Olver before Lord of King.
• 3:28:17
  Speaker 16: Yeah, that's why the speculation started, because like it could
• 3:28:20
  Speaker 16: have kind of maybe worked somehow in some weird secret thing. Yeah,
• 3:28:27
  Speaker 16: but anyways not.
• 3:28:29
  Speaker 12: Yeah, well, so apparently he's Grady's kid, Yeah, which is
• 3:28:35
  Speaker 12: pretty cool, Like I get that that cannon yeah yeah
• 3:28:39
  Speaker 12: really yeah he was a companion right Yeah.
• 3:28:42
  Speaker 13: Oh wow, I didn't no idea.
• 3:28:44
  Speaker 6: I did not know that.
• 3:28:45
  Speaker 5: I thought his parents got killed by the sh though.
• 3:28:49
  Speaker 12: Yeah Olver's parents did.
• 3:28:50
  Speaker 16: But yeah, your's parents said, your Grady's kid is like
• 3:28:53
  Speaker 16: they're reincarving.
• 3:28:54
  Speaker 5: Oh you're saying.
• 3:28:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
• 3:28:59
  Speaker 6: I was like, wait.
• 3:29:03
  Speaker 2: What that would be awkward?
• 3:29:08
  Speaker 6: You know, why the hell is he hanging around with Matt?
• 3:29:10
  Speaker 6: Where's his fucking dad?
• 3:29:13
  Speaker 5: He's all like, uh, what Aveanda around? He's always very
• 3:29:17
  Speaker 5: like given her the evil eye.
• 3:29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well he doesn't like Aye right, Yeah.
• 3:29:24
  Speaker 5: And Matt's trying to say, like there's different kinds of
• 3:29:27
  Speaker 5: idell like not a aye are the same.
• 3:29:30
  Speaker 16: It's like, how early do you have to have that
• 3:29:32
  Speaker 16: talk with your kid? These aren't the ones who murdered you.
• 3:29:37
  Speaker 5: Yes, not all these like you know, ginger blue eyed
• 3:29:42
  Speaker 5: desert people are the same.
• 3:29:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's tough, all right.
• 3:29:47
  Speaker 3: Well, the Companion's not saying definitively the destroyed Gratty's son,
• 3:29:50
  Speaker 3: but it does say that he was reborn as of
• 3:29:52
  Speaker 3: the last battle.
• 3:29:53
  Speaker 16: I'm pretty sure Morgan's right though, it's somewhere, it's somewhere
• 3:29:56
  Speaker 16: out there where that's like what it is.
• 3:29:58
  Speaker 2: I'm I agree with that. The seems very likely.
• 3:30:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean there's nothing wrong with Oliver having
• 3:30:05
  Speaker 3: a profound connection to adventure and maybe even running into
• 3:30:09
  Speaker 3: Brigida and got Alkane farther down the road and having
• 3:30:12
  Speaker 3: adventures with them as a different hero, you know, and
• 3:30:16
  Speaker 3: like there are multiple kinds of relationships that Oliver and
• 3:30:20
  Speaker 3: Brigida can have, maybe.
• 3:30:24
  Speaker 2: Totally I mean the whole thing with I mean, he
• 3:30:26
  Speaker 2: was around.
• 3:30:26
  Speaker 3: Bella and nool, he blew the horn of Valier. I
• 3:30:31
  Speaker 3: mean like he'd be the first Taveran at the fourth age.
• 3:30:34
  Speaker 5: For all we know, he helps Matt figure out the
• 3:30:37
  Speaker 5: snakes and foxes.
• 3:30:39
  Speaker 12: So I've always wondered since you know, Swan knew she
• 3:30:42
  Speaker 12: had the ability to see Tavi, and I'm like, how
• 3:30:44
  Speaker 12: would you have known that? You know what taveran? So
• 3:30:47
  Speaker 12: you have like Taveruran for a weekend, or like you know,
• 3:30:49
  Speaker 12: if somebody runs a really good conference, or like thank
• 3:30:52
  Speaker 12: you for coming to my Taveruran talk, so.
• 3:30:55
  Speaker 2: You rented Tavan.
• 3:30:57
  Speaker 12: It's just sort of like, you know, you're just on
• 3:31:00
  Speaker 12: fire and you have like a really good would you
• 3:31:02
  Speaker 12: not bite me?
• 3:31:03
  Speaker 17: Thank you?
• 3:31:05
  Speaker 12: You just have yeah, like a really good you know,
• 3:31:08
  Speaker 12: comedy show or whatever where you're just off the hook,
• 3:31:10
  Speaker 12: like you're tiverer in for the night.
• 3:31:12
  Speaker 17: So yeah, I've always wondered.
• 3:31:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sorry. Do they
• 3:31:18
  Speaker 5: ever dress Whether Logane and Swan can still sense Tavering
• 3:31:23
  Speaker 5: after they're stilled than healed.
• 3:31:27
  Speaker 17: I think that they can after their healing.
• 3:31:31
  Speaker 16: I think they could because talents aren't necessarily connected with
• 3:31:34
  Speaker 16: the one power, right.
• 3:31:35
  Speaker 5: I just didn't know if this one was. I don't
• 3:31:36
  Speaker 5: remember of an instance where like this. It's like they
• 3:31:41
  Speaker 5: are witnessing a Tavie and then mention.
• 3:31:43
  Speaker 2: It, Yeah, I don't think it comes up.
• 3:31:44
  Speaker 3: But I don't think we see it on screen, but
• 3:31:46
  Speaker 3: I would assume that it would work because yeah, it's not.
• 3:31:49
  Speaker 2: It's more like men's ability. It's not tied to using
• 3:31:53
  Speaker 2: the power.
• 3:31:54
  Speaker 16: Yeah, there's a whole severe conversation. Is funny too, because
• 3:31:57
  Speaker 16: one of the things that I've heard, I think even
• 3:31:59
  Speaker 16: you get on what spoilers I've talked about the whole
• 3:32:02
  Speaker 16: like tevere In and why aren't the Emmonsfield girls ta
• 3:32:06
  Speaker 16: vere In right, because there's so many reasons why you
• 3:32:08
  Speaker 16: could argue that they are. And kind of, in my
• 3:32:11
  Speaker 16: own brain, the way I think of it is like
• 3:32:13
  Speaker 16: being Taveren means the pattern needs you to do certain
• 3:32:17
  Speaker 16: things for things to go well. And in my brain,
• 3:32:20
  Speaker 16: brand Pair and Matt they're not the kind of people
• 3:32:24
  Speaker 16: who are necessarily gonna go and do what needs to
• 3:32:26
  Speaker 16: be done just because it has to be done. They
• 3:32:28
  Speaker 16: kind of need that kick in the ass to go
• 3:32:30
  Speaker 16: and do it. Like, can you really see Matt going
• 3:32:33
  Speaker 16: to do what he needs to do unless the pattern's
• 3:32:35
  Speaker 16: like dragging him by the ear and saying you're gonna
• 3:32:37
  Speaker 16: go run the fan of the Red Hand, Like, I
• 3:32:40
  Speaker 16: can't see that happening. But Naiive and Agwayne they don't
• 3:32:43
  Speaker 16: need anybody to like tell them to go do things.
• 3:32:45
  Speaker 16: They're just gonna go fucking do it, so they don't.
• 3:32:48
  Speaker 6: They just get shit done.
• 3:32:49
  Speaker 16: They're gonna get shit done. They don't need the pattern
• 3:32:51
  Speaker 16: to be like, hey, you're special, you're unique, you need
• 3:32:54
  Speaker 16: to go and do this because you're tavere. And they're
• 3:32:57
  Speaker 16: just gonna go do it because it's the right thing
• 3:32:58
  Speaker 16: to do. So like in my head, in my own brain,
• 3:33:01
  Speaker 16: they don't need to be Tavern because they're going to
• 3:33:04
  Speaker 16: do it no matter what.
• 3:33:05
  Speaker 2: I really like that.
• 3:33:07
  Speaker 6: I also like that.
• 3:33:09
  Speaker 5: I also always thought like, these guys have a lot
• 3:33:12
  Speaker 5: of help to do all the crazy shit that they do,
• 3:33:14
  Speaker 5: and the girls don't have any help, and they're doing
• 3:33:16
  Speaker 5: just as crazy anyway. They're doing it anyway without the
• 3:33:19
  Speaker 5: patterns help.
• 3:33:20
  Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, prold, they're doing it for themselves.
• 3:33:22
  Speaker 16: Like, but it's like the amount of times Paren like
• 3:33:25
  Speaker 16: bitches about having to go home and I want to
• 3:33:28
  Speaker 16: will be a blacksmith at home. If he wasn't Tavern,
• 3:33:30
  Speaker 16: he'd be a fucking blacksmith at home. And he wouldn't
• 3:33:33
  Speaker 16: be doing any of this stuff. But like Bwayne wants
• 3:33:36
  Speaker 16: to learn, she's so like her whole thing is, I
• 3:33:39
  Speaker 16: can't control my brain. I want to go learn everything
• 3:33:41
  Speaker 16: possible that I can't. I want to go be Amerlyn.
• 3:33:44
  Speaker 16: She has that drive and motivation saying with the Naves
• 3:33:47
  Speaker 16: so like Ninae.
• 3:33:49
  Speaker 4: I love a lot of things about Naive, but I
• 3:33:52
  Speaker 4: think the biggest one is that she is driven primarily
• 3:33:55
  Speaker 4: by Spiite.
• 3:33:57
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 3:33:59
  Speaker 4: I do love that about her, Like, yeah, I do,
• 3:34:02
  Speaker 4: And then you know, I.
• 3:34:04
  Speaker 5: Don't want I love that, but I don't one hundred
• 3:34:06
  Speaker 5: percent agree because Nineveh's character, I think is driven by
• 3:34:10
  Speaker 5: her loyalty to her to the two Rivers, to Ran
• 3:34:14
  Speaker 5: Matt Perrin and Eggwayne, and her like sense of obligation
• 3:34:19
  Speaker 5: to protect them. Like I think everything that she does
• 3:34:22
  Speaker 5: is always to kind of protect them and to you know,
• 3:34:26
  Speaker 5: watch out for.
• 3:34:27
  Speaker 13: Them and look out for them.
• 3:34:28
  Speaker 5: And I feel like that's like consistent throughout the entire series.
• 3:34:31
  Speaker 13: But you're right, she does a lot of shit out
• 3:34:33
  Speaker 13: of spite and I do.
• 3:34:33
  Speaker 4: Love it, yes, yeah, And I mean, and you know,
• 3:34:36
  Speaker 4: maybe even maybe it isn't mostly from Spike, but like
• 3:34:43
  Speaker 4: there's just a lot of.
• 3:34:47
  Speaker 6: Like Ninive is one of.
• 3:34:48
  Speaker 4: Those people where if you tell her she can't, she's
• 3:34:52
  Speaker 4: going to give you the finger and she's gonna go
• 3:34:54
  Speaker 4: do it, and she's going to do it better than
• 3:34:56
  Speaker 4: you or anybody else, and she's going to do a
• 3:34:59
  Speaker 4: bunch of other stuff on top of it just to
• 3:35:01
  Speaker 4: be like yeah, suck it, you know.
• 3:35:04
  Speaker 6: Like she'll never say a word about it. She'll just
• 3:35:08
  Speaker 6: be like yeah.
• 3:35:11
  Speaker 5: Like Eggwainn's like that too, Like she always wants to
• 3:35:14
  Speaker 5: do the impossible.
• 3:35:15
  Speaker 13: People said you can never do this. I'm gonna do it.
• 3:35:18
  Speaker 7: Guess what.
• 3:35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
• 3:35:21
  Speaker 3: Even Alain to a certain extent, she decides that she
• 3:35:25
  Speaker 3: has an affinity for rill and then just figures out
• 3:35:29
  Speaker 3: how to make them or to rill. But like that's
• 3:35:32
  Speaker 3: a certain amount of like you say it can't be done,
• 3:35:35
  Speaker 3: but have.
• 3:35:36
  Speaker 2: You tried this?
• 3:35:37
  Speaker 3: Like it's a dumbed down version of that attitude.
• 3:35:40
  Speaker 2: But like you can see why the Supergirls are such
• 3:35:41
  Speaker 2: a great trifecta.
• 3:35:44
  Speaker 5: And is this is this the book? And I can't
• 3:35:46
  Speaker 5: remember if it's just one of all the Krown of Swords?
• 3:35:48
  Speaker 5: Where does Matt get to Ebudar in this book? Not
• 3:35:52
  Speaker 5: to Saladar. I'm sorry to Saladar, right, yes, okay, So
• 3:35:56
  Speaker 5: there's an amazing scene and one of my favorite Matt
• 3:35:59
  Speaker 5: scenes in the Highest series is when he gets to
• 3:36:02
  Speaker 5: Saladar and you know, Eggwayn's Omborlin at this point, and
• 3:36:07
  Speaker 5: he's like, what Eggway's armoralin? This is crazy? Like I
• 3:36:09
  Speaker 5: got to Egwin, I'll get you out of this mess.
• 3:36:12
  Speaker 5: You know. He thinks he's going to try to save her,
• 3:36:14
  Speaker 5: but then like there's the point where he sees all
• 3:36:16
  Speaker 5: the other eyes to die like treating her like shit,
• 3:36:19
  Speaker 5: and he like kneels down and like kisses her ring
• 3:36:21
  Speaker 5: and calls her mother because he's thinking in his head
• 3:36:24
  Speaker 5: like nobody treats two Rivers or an Emmonsfield woman like this,
• 3:36:29
  Speaker 5: And it's just like an awesome moment for Matt and
• 3:36:31
  Speaker 5: like kind of ground you like everybody thinks Matt's just
• 3:36:33
  Speaker 5: like you know, he's reckless and he doesn't care about anything,
• 3:36:37
  Speaker 5: but he does. He still has that kind of like
• 3:36:40
  Speaker 5: deep down, he's still that same kid from mmens Field.
• 3:36:44
  Speaker 5: And I just love that scene.
• 3:36:46
  Speaker 6: I love I love that you.
• 3:36:48
  Speaker 4: I forgot that that happened, and I thank you for
• 3:36:50
  Speaker 4: reminding me because I love that too. Matt is absolutely reckless.
• 3:36:56
  Speaker 4: Matt wants to be lazy and he wants to not
• 3:36:59
  Speaker 4: care about stuff, but.
• 3:37:01
  Speaker 6: He does and he hates it.
• 3:37:06
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 3:37:07
  Speaker 12: Why am I like this?
• 3:37:09
  Speaker 4: I kind of want to care about these people. I
• 3:37:11
  Speaker 4: just want to go flirt with girls and play cards.
• 3:37:16
  Speaker 16: It's really funny because in this book too, just with
• 3:37:17
  Speaker 16: the whole Matt Agwaine thing, It's like the Emmonsfield five
• 3:37:21
  Speaker 16: are so funny because they're all like they all grew
• 3:37:25
  Speaker 16: up together, and it's like anybody you ever grew up with,
• 3:37:28
  Speaker 16: and then you know the shit that they did when
• 3:37:30
  Speaker 16: they were kids and whatever. You're like hanging out on
• 3:37:32
  Speaker 16: weekends and all that, doing stupid shit, and then you
• 3:37:35
  Speaker 16: go to their place at work where they're like a
• 3:37:37
  Speaker 16: manager or they run a business, and you're like, you're
• 3:37:40
  Speaker 16: in charge of this stuff, Like you the person that
• 3:37:44
  Speaker 16: I go do this they call it, like yeah, but
• 3:37:47
  Speaker 16: it's like that weird dissonance where I mean Agwayne and
• 3:37:50
  Speaker 16: Nat they kind of have that whole thing where it's
• 3:37:52
  Speaker 16: like she's the ambulan seed and he's like the leader
• 3:37:55
  Speaker 16: of the band, Like what's happening? It's crazy, Like I
• 3:38:00
  Speaker 16: just kind of thinking back to like so my high
• 3:38:02
  Speaker 16: school buddies.
• 3:38:03
  Speaker 2: As a guy, I see it.
• 3:38:04
  Speaker 16: You in charge of anything, I'm going to immediately assume
• 3:38:07
  Speaker 16: this is bad.
• 3:38:14
  Speaker 4: Along the same lines, like the people that you know
• 3:38:18
  Speaker 4: that you're close to, and you'll just give them ship
• 3:38:20
  Speaker 4: constantly and just bag on them and fetch at him.
• 3:38:24
  Speaker 4: And then somebody from outside says something and you're like, okay,
• 3:38:27
  Speaker 4: now we're fighting. Yeah, we're to do this, So now
• 3:38:36
  Speaker 4: this is happening.
• 3:38:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that about Matt.
• 3:38:39
  Speaker 3: They have Matt integranted's such a sibling relationship and it's like,
• 3:38:43
  Speaker 3: oh no, we can fight all day, but like we
• 3:38:46
  Speaker 3: are back to back the second and a third party
• 3:38:48
  Speaker 3: gets into this. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a that's a
• 3:38:54
  Speaker 3: really fun scene too, because Matt goes from like I
• 3:38:56
  Speaker 3: don't understand anything about politics. I don't understand leaders. Also,
• 3:39:01
  Speaker 3: here's a really well timed gesture that like pulls my
• 3:39:05
  Speaker 3: entire army into staring down your.
• 3:39:07
  Speaker 2: Entire like you know, Hall of the Tower, just like.
• 3:39:11
  Speaker 12: Well just in the like the whole symbolism of having
• 3:39:15
  Speaker 12: an army of dragon sworn show obeysans to their chosen
• 3:39:22
  Speaker 12: amoralin you know, it's almost like the first instance of
• 3:39:26
  Speaker 12: I mean, I guess he almost kind of counts as
• 3:39:28
  Speaker 12: a foreign dignitary. Being a general is a form of
• 3:39:31
  Speaker 12: being a dignitary and being like, you may not take
• 3:39:35
  Speaker 12: your chosen leader seriously, but here is someone who has
• 3:39:38
  Speaker 12: serious weight, who has the backing of the dragon were born,
• 3:39:42
  Speaker 12: and who has a bunch of soldiers, you know, showing
• 3:39:45
  Speaker 12: honor to your chosen leader, and so.
• 3:39:48
  Speaker 17: That means something.
• 3:39:50
  Speaker 12: And yeah, it's a really significant gesture and more just
• 3:39:55
  Speaker 12: more than just being nice like, and it gives pause
• 3:39:59
  Speaker 12: to the isid eye. And I think there are a
• 3:40:01
  Speaker 12: whole bunch of steps throughout Lord of you know, once
• 3:40:04
  Speaker 12: they raised her and Lord of Chaos and then going
• 3:40:07
  Speaker 12: into crowd of Swords where they're kind of like, hmm,
• 3:40:11
  Speaker 12: maybe we did something without thinking it through too well,
• 3:40:15
  Speaker 12: or the way that we thought this through wasn't the
• 3:40:18
  Speaker 12: way that we actually should have thought it through.
• 3:40:21
  Speaker 4: I feel like Agueene is absolutely not the woman they
• 3:40:27
  Speaker 4: thought she was.
• 3:40:28
  Speaker 6: No, they had no idea what they were getting.
• 3:40:44
  Speaker 5: Oh no, I go ahead, Morgan, I'm sorry.
• 3:40:47
  Speaker 12: Oh it's like, you know, I don't think that The
• 3:40:51
  Speaker 12: the Ravens is a great prologue, but it is great
• 3:40:54
  Speaker 12: to show you a lot about Equaine and her mindset
• 3:40:57
  Speaker 12: before she leaves the Two Rivers, and to just give
• 3:41:01
  Speaker 12: you an idea. And so you've got her, you know,
• 3:41:03
  Speaker 12: running around thinking about like what a drag all of
• 3:41:06
  Speaker 12: her four older sisters are, and how nobody takes her seriously,
• 3:41:09
  Speaker 12: and how she doesn't want anybody to tell her what
• 3:41:11
  Speaker 12: to do because she's going to do what she wants,
• 3:41:13
  Speaker 12: and how she wants to blow this joint, get the
• 3:41:14
  Speaker 12: fuck out of here. And I'm just kind of like, so,
• 3:41:17
  Speaker 12: you know, here, you got someone who's a little kid
• 3:41:19
  Speaker 12: and it's pissed that nobody takes her seriously and that
• 3:41:22
  Speaker 12: she's being dismissed all the time. And this is the
• 3:41:25
  Speaker 12: person that they're going to choose after she's like sick
• 3:41:28
  Speaker 12: of being infantalized and dismissed and obviously it's been happening
• 3:41:31
  Speaker 12: her whole life, and they're going to pick her to
• 3:41:33
  Speaker 12: be their ambulin because they're planning on infantalizing and dismissing her.
• 3:41:39
  Speaker 12: Bad news.
• 3:41:41
  Speaker 4: I just absolutely did not take into consideration, or maybe
• 3:41:45
  Speaker 4: they didn't know about the stuff that has happened to
• 3:41:48
  Speaker 4: her smart and she was already smart, but like that
• 3:41:54
  Speaker 4: she turned her hard.
• 3:41:56
  Speaker 16: I would definitely already know about that. I mean, there's
• 3:41:58
  Speaker 16: no way they knew.
• 3:41:59
  Speaker 5: But they've been right. So this always bog my mind too,
• 3:42:02
  Speaker 5: is like why did they choose her? And I guess
• 3:42:05
  Speaker 5: the obvious reason though she's not She wasn't you know, there,
• 3:42:08
  Speaker 5: She wasn't at the tower during the split. They want
• 3:42:10
  Speaker 5: to get somebody who wasn't that. I'm sure there was
• 3:42:12
  Speaker 5: plenty of sisters who wore like that. But they've been
• 3:42:14
  Speaker 5: meeting with her regularly, right and Teller and Riatta at
• 3:42:18
  Speaker 5: this point, so they kind of have a feel for
• 3:42:21
  Speaker 5: and I don't know if that's their impetus is like, oh,
• 3:42:24
  Speaker 5: you know, we've been meeting with her, she wasn't there,
• 3:42:26
  Speaker 5: and she seems like she might be a good person,
• 3:42:28
  Speaker 5: but you would think they would have been a better
• 3:42:29
  Speaker 5: judge of personality or unless I don't know. It always
• 3:42:34
  Speaker 5: made me think like who was the one really behind
• 3:42:37
  Speaker 5: choosing her? Like was this a swand was this a
• 3:42:40
  Speaker 5: Swan plot or definitely was was it?
• 3:42:44
  Speaker 16: I don't know, there's definitely like an aspect of the
• 3:42:47
  Speaker 16: Swan plot, but also like kind of the bad judgment
• 3:42:50
  Speaker 16: thing too. I would argue that the isidite put themselves
• 3:42:54
  Speaker 16: up so high on a pedestal that they were above
• 3:42:56
  Speaker 16: everybody and everything, and we see that even from like this,
• 3:43:00
  Speaker 16: like the I said, I, who are going to meet
• 3:43:03
  Speaker 16: with rand Like they think they're so much better than
• 3:43:04
  Speaker 16: frigging everybody I had guested with their idea and seth
• 3:43:08
  Speaker 16: on the Mirrors of myssed episode where they try and
• 3:43:10
  Speaker 16: go and intimidate Randell, who the dragony born with the
• 3:43:13
  Speaker 16: mirrors of myst We're going to make ourselves look like
• 3:43:15
  Speaker 16: a little bit bigger than we actually are, and we've
• 3:43:17
  Speaker 16: got deeper voices. And they legitimately thought that that was
• 3:43:20
  Speaker 16: going to work as an intimidation tactic, because that's what's
• 3:43:23
  Speaker 16: worked in the past for leaders and rulers of countries.
• 3:43:27
  Speaker 16: But they put themselves so high up that they just
• 3:43:29
  Speaker 16: can't imagine that a little village like girl is going
• 3:43:33
  Speaker 16: to talk back, like I have to kind of assume
• 3:43:36
  Speaker 16: that they're that like asinine or arrogant or whatever you
• 3:43:40
  Speaker 16: want to call it.
• 3:43:41
  Speaker 4: So well, and if you think about it, the interactions
• 3:43:46
  Speaker 4: that they've had with her have been in the capacity
• 3:43:50
  Speaker 4: of Iguaine as a novice, and even though she thinks
• 3:43:55
  Speaker 4: that it's a load of bullshit. She plays the part
• 3:43:58
  Speaker 4: she you know, she cowtows and does all the things
• 3:44:01
  Speaker 4: that she's supposed to.
• 3:44:02
  Speaker 6: Do as a lowly novice. You know, she's externally she
• 3:44:07
  Speaker 6: appears to be obedient.
• 3:44:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, they're so caught up in their
• 3:44:12
  Speaker 4: own you know, kind of their heads are so far
• 3:44:14
  Speaker 4: up their own asses that it does not occur to
• 3:44:17
  Speaker 4: them that she could be anything other than what they're
• 3:44:20
  Speaker 4: seeing on the surface. She's young, as far as they know,
• 3:44:23
  Speaker 4: she's inexperienced. They obviously don't know a lot of the
• 3:44:26
  Speaker 4: stuff that's happened to her. She seems to be obedient. Okay,
• 3:44:29
  Speaker 4: we're going to take this novice who is very powerful,
• 3:44:32
  Speaker 4: but she's young, and she's maybe kind of dumb, and
• 3:44:35
  Speaker 4: she's handled her no problem.
• 3:44:41
  Speaker 8: Sline, What are my rules? What can I who can
• 3:44:43
  Speaker 8: I be in charge of?
• 3:44:44
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 3:44:44
  Speaker 16: Okay, yeah, just like quietly taking notes.
• 3:44:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's even as a she's she's a wise
• 3:44:53
  Speaker 3: one's a prentice for a lot of that. Again, playing
• 3:44:57
  Speaker 3: a very subservient role in saying yes, mother, no, there,
• 3:45:00
  Speaker 3: I can be obedient, like.
• 3:45:02
  Speaker 5: Although constantly doing things the wise ones tell her not
• 3:45:05
  Speaker 5: to do.
• 3:45:06
  Speaker 6: I mean, there's but she wouldn't be a Wayne if
• 3:45:09
  Speaker 6: she wasn't.
• 3:45:10
  Speaker 12: I not put your ass on my head.
• 3:45:13
  Speaker 16: I mean, even to become a wise One though, you
• 3:45:15
  Speaker 16: kind of got to do what you're not supposed to
• 3:45:16
  Speaker 16: do to become one.
• 3:45:17
  Speaker 2: So like, here's that aspect that's true.
• 3:45:19
  Speaker 4: There's obvious whole thing where she's like, why will they
• 3:45:22
  Speaker 4: not like do this, and they're like, fucking he was
• 3:45:25
  Speaker 4: asked stupid, But yeah, I think.
• 3:45:34
  Speaker 6: I feel a legitimate person.
• 3:45:40
  Speaker 4: And her time with the Wise Ones really kind of
• 3:45:46
  Speaker 4: honed that edge, you know, that kind of intellectual edge
• 3:45:52
  Speaker 4: where you know she's able to think ahead and you know,
• 3:45:55
  Speaker 4: she was very subservient the entire time, but she was
• 3:45:58
  Speaker 4: with like women who are brilliant leaders, you know, and
• 3:46:02
  Speaker 4: so she absorbed so much of that that when it
• 3:46:05
  Speaker 4: came time for her to get raised Amerlin, she's like,
• 3:46:07
  Speaker 4: oh shit, now I can really funck shit up.
• 3:46:12
  Speaker 6: And then that's when she started playing her game.
• 3:46:15
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 3:46:17
  Speaker 5: She has to pay her toe too at this point,
• 3:46:19
  Speaker 5: right before she goes with the Wise Ones.
• 3:46:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, so she's still very much This book
• 3:46:25
  Speaker 3: is a lot of her finding her feet as Ambrelin
• 3:46:28
  Speaker 3: and then even Tom at the end is like, I'm
• 3:46:31
  Speaker 3: not sure if.
• 3:46:33
  Speaker 19: She's doing things that will make her super powerful, but
• 3:46:36
  Speaker 19: it could be am I big coincidence, or she's doing
• 3:46:40
  Speaker 19: amazing stuff, like she's at that point, and this book
• 3:46:43
  Speaker 19: is really just like, Okay, I have to.
• 3:46:45
  Speaker 3: Heal from eating my toe, I have to learn the
• 3:46:47
  Speaker 3: names of all these sisters in the hall. And then after
• 3:46:52
  Speaker 3: this book, you know, it's just when she really starts
• 3:46:54
  Speaker 3: like grabbing them by the scruff of the neck and saying,
• 3:46:56
  Speaker 3: sit down, shut up, and do what I need you
• 3:46:58
  Speaker 3: to do. This book is just her being like, yeah,
• 3:47:02
  Speaker 3: taking notes in the corner really quietly.
• 3:47:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, she's kind of getting pushed around left and right
• 3:47:06
  Speaker 5: and just kind of following and trying to get her
• 3:47:09
  Speaker 5: feet underneath her.
• 3:47:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like, I mean, I always had the
• 3:47:13
  Speaker 4: impression that during this whole time, she was playing along
• 3:47:22
  Speaker 4: with their bullshit to kind of lull them into a
• 3:47:25
  Speaker 4: sense of complacency, while she was, like you said, taking
• 3:47:29
  Speaker 4: her notes and everything like that, and thinking about all
• 3:47:31
  Speaker 4: the things that she'd be able to accomplish and what
• 3:47:33
  Speaker 4: she could do to accomplish those things, and then slowly
• 3:47:38
  Speaker 4: starting to subvert quietly, tiny little things.
• 3:47:43
  Speaker 6: That would make you think.
• 3:47:49
  Speaker 4: So that she could really just kind of get a
• 3:47:50
  Speaker 4: wedge in there, so then she'd be able to just
• 3:47:52
  Speaker 4: like crack the whole thing open and be like, guess.
• 3:47:54
  Speaker 5: What, outside the box thinker. Yeah, with the White Tower,
• 3:48:01
  Speaker 5: it's just so like they're all just so rigid and
• 3:48:03
  Speaker 5: how they think and how they act, and she was
• 3:48:06
  Speaker 5: just totally like, way outside of that.
• 3:48:08
  Speaker 8: M Yeah, you thought.
• 3:48:11
  Speaker 3: Kad Swan and Moraine were going their own way. Well,
• 3:48:13
  Speaker 3: have you met a Qwenna olivator?
• 3:48:16
  Speaker 6: You ain't seen nothing?
• 3:48:17
  Speaker 4: Well. And I wonder if it's the fact that she
• 3:48:22
  Speaker 4: spent so much time outside of the tower. You know,
• 3:48:26
  Speaker 4: usually when someone gets raised Amberlind.
• 3:48:28
  Speaker 6: They've been in the tower for ages, ages and ages.
• 3:48:31
  Speaker 6: She's hardly spent any time in the tower. She's only
• 3:48:33
  Speaker 6: a obvice.
• 3:48:34
  Speaker 4: She hasn't even been raised accepted, So she hasn't been
• 3:48:36
  Speaker 4: indoctrinated to all that.
• 3:48:38
  Speaker 5: She hasn't been in the tower for a year, right,
• 3:48:40
  Speaker 5: I mean she spends most of that time out of
• 3:48:42
  Speaker 5: the tower that she's in the tower.
• 3:48:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And so she hasn't been indoctrinated into all of
• 3:48:48
  Speaker 4: that stuff. So she can come in as a free
• 3:48:50
  Speaker 4: thinker because you know, she's she doesn't have the same mindset.
• 3:48:54
  Speaker 6: Okay, this is the way we've always done it, so
• 3:48:56
  Speaker 6: this is how we're going.
• 3:48:56
  Speaker 2: To keep doing it Erlin.
• 3:48:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and exactly what they needed.
• 3:49:02
  Speaker 2: Oh so badly. Yeah, for sure.
• 3:49:06
  Speaker 16: Are you saying that there's positives to like electing younger
• 3:49:09
  Speaker 16: people to the leadership roles?
• 3:49:11
  Speaker 7: Is that what you're saying or not?
• 3:49:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I buy that. I prefer the
• 3:49:16
  Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty year olds.
• 3:49:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they don't have gray hair, faith, I don't know.
• 3:49:21
  Speaker 12: Yeah, that's that's something to be said for you know,
• 3:49:25
  Speaker 12: is said, I are exceptionally conservative to a certain extent
• 3:49:29
  Speaker 12: because you've got to figure people who live that long.
• 3:49:34
  Speaker 12: You get into this mindset of like, oh, things are
• 3:49:37
  Speaker 12: how they've always been, when it's like, no, that's not
• 3:49:41
  Speaker 12: how it works, and.
• 3:49:42
  Speaker 6: Actually it's not like that at all.
• 3:49:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they're playing the long game because you know they
• 3:49:47
  Speaker 5: will live a long time.
• 3:49:48
  Speaker 16: I don't understand why anyone says wheel time parallels real life.
• 3:49:51
  Speaker 2: I don't buy that zero relationship really whatsoever?
• 3:49:57
  Speaker 6: Know what happens in real life.
• 3:49:58
  Speaker 5: There's no chat and ling in our world. That's postume.
• 3:50:04
  Speaker 6: Ridiculous. All right, what next?
• 3:50:11
  Speaker 5: Oh, oh, I saw something that I wanted to talk about. Yeah,
• 3:50:14
  Speaker 5: and this is like one of my pet peeves of
• 3:50:16
  Speaker 5: the entire series and one of the things that probably the.
• 3:50:18
  Speaker 13: Thing I hate most about Rand.
• 3:50:20
  Speaker 5: Oh wow, So this is you know, you have a
• 3:50:23
  Speaker 5: note here about Leah being lost in shadow logos.
• 3:50:27
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the list.
• 3:50:28
  Speaker 5: This is when the list starts, right, Is this the
• 3:50:30
  Speaker 5: first Is she the first person on the list?
• 3:50:32
  Speaker 16: And this sets it off, isn't it?
• 3:50:35
  Speaker 2: I think so? Yeah, the name that she leaves his
• 3:50:38
  Speaker 2: soul is wound.
• 3:50:40
  Speaker 12: He'll never know.
• 3:50:40
  Speaker 13: Oh my god, it's just so like Rand.
• 3:50:44
  Speaker 5: Come on, he's just like his like whole like mindset
• 3:50:49
  Speaker 5: of like a woman cannot get hurt, woman cannot die,
• 3:50:53
  Speaker 5: And it's such a it's just like it's horrible and
• 3:50:57
  Speaker 5: it's a horrible character trait to have.
• 3:51:01
  Speaker 12: I don't like it, particularly when you're a lot of reasons.
• 3:51:04
  Speaker 4: When you're looking at the women who are sacrificing themselves
• 3:51:09
  Speaker 4: for him. Yes, women, these women are warriors and if
• 3:51:14
  Speaker 4: you went up against them without the power, they would
• 3:51:16
  Speaker 4: probably handle your ass.
• 3:51:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they'd beat the crap out of him times.
• 3:51:23
  Speaker 12: Yeah, out of him.
• 3:51:27
  Speaker 5: But yeah, it starts earlier with like his whole conflict
• 3:51:30
  Speaker 5: with the maidens carrying his honor and everything. But this
• 3:51:32
  Speaker 5: is like where it gets to like a point where
• 3:51:34
  Speaker 5: it starts getting out of control. And he makes his list,
• 3:51:37
  Speaker 5: and his list is only women, and it's only women
• 3:51:39
  Speaker 5: that he and and does he ever put that woman
• 3:51:42
  Speaker 5: he kills back?
• 3:51:43
  Speaker 13: And the dragon were born on this list?
• 3:51:45
  Speaker 2: Right, that's like a nameless dark friend woman. I think
• 3:51:49
  Speaker 2: she ends up on there something.
• 3:51:50
  Speaker 16: Okay, Yeah, I have a question though, because like I too,
• 3:51:53
  Speaker 16: along with probably most people also hate the whole list thing.
• 3:51:57
  Speaker 16: But I have to wonder if this list idea is
• 3:52:01
  Speaker 16: something reminiscent of our day's like war experience where there's
• 3:52:04
  Speaker 16: like this level of guilt that you have of maybe
• 3:52:06
  Speaker 16: not women, but like being a commander going into battle
• 3:52:09
  Speaker 16: and having people die on your watch because of your
• 3:52:12
  Speaker 16: actions or what you did or didn't do, regardless of
• 3:52:15
  Speaker 16: whether it's real and it is your fault. Where you
• 3:52:18
  Speaker 16: create this list and you can't let it go and
• 3:52:20
  Speaker 16: becomes an issue and it interferes with your real life.
• 3:52:23
  Speaker 16: Like I have to imagine, like that has to be
• 3:52:26
  Speaker 16: based on something more than just like some you know,
• 3:52:29
  Speaker 16: women can't women can't die trope, you know, what I mean.
• 3:52:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I always tried to justify it with like Rand
• 3:52:36
  Speaker 5: and his you know, his mother or his who he
• 3:52:39
  Speaker 5: thinks is his mother died as young and maybe that's
• 3:52:41
  Speaker 5: something to do with it, but yeah, he grew up
• 3:52:43
  Speaker 5: really without a mother.
• 3:52:44
  Speaker 13: I don't know, but it's just like so over the top.
• 3:52:47
  Speaker 8: I agree, like it's over the top, but like one
• 3:52:49
  Speaker 8: hundred percent.
• 3:52:50
  Speaker 13: But yeah, I mean it causes so much trouble in
• 3:52:53
  Speaker 13: the series.
• 3:52:53
  Speaker 5: I mean, Marian basically dies because of well she doesn't die,
• 3:52:56
  Speaker 5: but you think Marien dies because because you just can't
• 3:53:00
  Speaker 5: kill land Fear, who's fucking horrible for sake.
• 3:53:06
  Speaker 4: God, I was reading that and I was like screaming
• 3:53:08
  Speaker 4: at the book. Just kill her, kill her, my dude,
• 3:53:13
  Speaker 4: she is a forsaken She is here to murder your ass.
• 3:53:16
  Speaker 6: She's going to kill your friends.
• 3:53:19
  Speaker 12: But I love how like Paren seems like the most
• 3:53:24
  Speaker 12: conservative and in many ways sexist of them all, who
• 3:53:27
  Speaker 12: in the end is the one with the least trouble
• 3:53:29
  Speaker 12: of using female soldiers and in the end is able
• 3:53:32
  Speaker 12: to just snap Landfair's neck and be like, no, biggie.
• 3:53:37
  Speaker 12: It's just like.
• 3:53:41
  Speaker 3: I've seen a concept of like you could have Rand
• 3:53:45
  Speaker 3: processes trauma by having a list for everyone who dies
• 3:53:48
  Speaker 3: for him.
• 3:53:49
  Speaker 2: He could still have.
• 3:53:49
  Speaker 3: The list and have the guilt, but just take all
• 3:53:52
  Speaker 3: the weird patriarchal like sexist shit out of it.
• 3:53:55
  Speaker 4: I think bothers me the most about it is the
• 3:53:58
  Speaker 4: fact that it's only I that's what it is.
• 3:54:02
  Speaker 16: That's Rand's upbringing too, Like he was born a super
• 3:54:04
  Speaker 16: conservative small town village, and it's like, as much as
• 3:54:07
  Speaker 16: we hated, that's a real thing in the real world
• 3:54:10
  Speaker 16: that happens in Robert Jordan when he wrote this book,
• 3:54:12
  Speaker 16: it's like a reflection of real life that shit happens,
• 3:54:15
  Speaker 16: And it makes sense that our main characters are going
• 3:54:17
  Speaker 16: to have those like patriarchal terrible notions because that's how
• 3:54:21
  Speaker 16: they were they were raised.
• 3:54:24
  Speaker 5: But that's extreme though, when like mattin Powerin have it too.
• 3:54:27
  Speaker 5: But it's just so like RN's list and his constant
• 3:54:31
  Speaker 5: battle with the Maidens back and forth until like, you know,
• 3:54:34
  Speaker 5: they finally come to a point where they you know,
• 3:54:37
  Speaker 5: all right.
• 3:54:37
  Speaker 12: I honestly feel like this was a plot device that
• 3:54:41
  Speaker 12: was not very well written or very well explored. Robert
• 3:54:45
  Speaker 12: Jordan was too heavy handed with it, and the whole
• 3:54:48
  Speaker 12: purpose of it was that you know that ran yets
• 3:54:51
  Speaker 12: to the point where he is officially too far gone, when.
• 3:54:56
  Speaker 17: He's decided no, it's okay, I.
• 3:54:58
  Speaker 12: Can kill women, because he's hit that darkness at that
• 3:55:02
  Speaker 12: point and he's seriously fucked up and so and it
• 3:55:07
  Speaker 12: was like that was his plot device to do that,
• 3:55:09
  Speaker 12: Like he had this one line that he would not cross,
• 3:55:12
  Speaker 12: and then once he was willing to cross that line,
• 3:55:14
  Speaker 12: that's when you know that the world is probably better
• 3:55:17
  Speaker 12: off without him, and you know that you know you
• 3:55:22
  Speaker 12: don't want the dragon basically to hit the last battle
• 3:55:25
  Speaker 12: at that point.
• 3:55:26
  Speaker 17: But it was not executed in a.
• 3:55:29
  Speaker 8: Very good manner.
• 3:55:30
  Speaker 17: It was too heavy handed. You could have done it
• 3:55:33
  Speaker 17: much more subtly.
• 3:55:35
  Speaker 5: And but hopefully they do that in the TV show's race.
• 3:55:41
  Speaker 2: There's so much room for you on this one.
• 3:55:42
  Speaker 7: Ray help us out.
• 3:55:45
  Speaker 4: And that's a really good Actually, that's a really good point.
• 3:55:48
  Speaker 4: And I kind of hadn't made that connection that he
• 3:55:51
  Speaker 4: wasn't a very heavy handed and poorly executed way illustrating
• 3:55:55
  Speaker 4: that final line so that when you so, you knew
• 3:55:57
  Speaker 4: when he crossed it that okay, now we are seriously
• 3:56:00
  Speaker 4: in the shit.
• 3:56:01
  Speaker 6: So I hadn't thought about.
• 3:56:03
  Speaker 13: That yeah, yeah.
• 3:56:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Leah getting lost in shadow Logo is tragic for him,
• 3:56:12
  Speaker 3: for her, for the Ayel, for a lot of reasons.
• 3:56:16
  Speaker 12: It's and just I love the reason for him to
• 3:56:22
  Speaker 12: punish himself because he loves to punish himself, and he's
• 3:56:25
  Speaker 12: been like that from the beginning, like your Brett your show.
• 3:56:29
  Speaker 12: Danny was like the first person who ever pointed out
• 3:56:32
  Speaker 12: Rand's negative self talk, which I never noticed or really
• 3:56:36
  Speaker 12: made note of until I was reading through again, and
• 3:56:40
  Speaker 12: you know, I had picked up on because she had
• 3:56:42
  Speaker 12: said it, and I'm like.
• 3:56:43
  Speaker 8: Oh shit, he does he talked shit to himself.
• 3:56:46
  Speaker 12: All the time, And I realized, oh, he really does
• 3:56:50
  Speaker 12: have a foundation for mental health issues even without.
• 3:56:53
  Speaker 8: Channeling right from the get go.
• 3:56:56
  Speaker 12: And you know, yeah, so it was kind of when you.
• 3:57:00
  Speaker 6: Keep an eye out for that. I hadn't noticed it either.
• 3:57:02
  Speaker 12: Yeah, he really does talk badly to himself, even before
• 3:57:06
  Speaker 12: Matt gets the Shatter Logos dagger. Once he gets the dagger,
• 3:57:10
  Speaker 12: you get whispers of self talk where you're like, that's
• 3:57:12
  Speaker 12: probably the dagger's influence. But there's also just Rand's not
• 3:57:16
  Speaker 12: very nice to himself, and you know, he likes to
• 3:57:20
  Speaker 12: punish himself, and you know, paren likes to punish himself too,
• 3:57:23
  Speaker 12: but not with the kind of like you know, I
• 3:57:26
  Speaker 12: think cruelty that Rand does for himself, and so absolutely,
• 3:57:31
  Speaker 12: and it just cascades and he just becomes crueler and
• 3:57:35
  Speaker 12: crueler to himself and punishes himself more and more and more,
• 3:57:38
  Speaker 12: which is very much, you know, a trademark of mental
• 3:57:43
  Speaker 12: illness in a lot of ways.
• 3:57:45
  Speaker 16: I mean, and then stacks on top of the whole taint,
• 3:57:47
  Speaker 16: and then it also stacks on the whole top of
• 3:57:49
  Speaker 16: his family issues of him, like actually realizing that you know,
• 3:57:53
  Speaker 16: Tam never had that conversation with him, which is like
• 3:57:55
  Speaker 16: also bad plant contents far, but there's a whole bunch
• 3:57:59
  Speaker 16: of issues that from the get go.
• 3:58:02
  Speaker 4: In the chat, Seth calls out when Rand assumes that
• 3:58:06
  Speaker 4: he raped men when actually they had enthusiastically consensual intercourse.
• 3:58:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, which is just like.
• 3:58:15
  Speaker 12: Yeah, because he's just like yeah, everything that he does
• 3:58:19
  Speaker 12: has to be wrong. Everybody has to be victimized by
• 3:58:22
  Speaker 12: him because he's trash, he's garbage, he's.
• 3:58:25
  Speaker 16: Awful, And that's like a ment and that's what you're saying,
• 3:58:28
  Speaker 16: that's like a mental health issue with Ran. It's like
• 3:58:30
  Speaker 16: we can say oh why are you doing that? Rand,
• 3:58:31
  Speaker 16: But it's like that's a he needs help, right.
• 3:58:34
  Speaker 12: Yeah, and he and RJ starts with the base for
• 3:58:39
  Speaker 12: that at the beginning, long before he ever channels very beginning.
• 3:58:43
  Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, And it's it's sad.
• 3:58:47
  Speaker 12: It's really heartbreaking, you know. And one of the most
• 3:58:50
  Speaker 12: heartbreaking things is to go back to the beginning after
• 3:58:52
  Speaker 12: you finish it, because he's really such a sweet kid
• 3:58:55
  Speaker 12: and then he's just kind of like then you know
• 3:58:58
  Speaker 12: what's going to happen to him, and it's just like
• 3:59:00
  Speaker 12: just kills me.
• 3:59:00
  Speaker 17: It always just kills me.
• 3:59:03
  Speaker 5: But but remember at the end, he's got his pipe
• 3:59:05
  Speaker 5: and he's a happy guy. I just got to remember that.
• 3:59:08
  Speaker 4: He walks away from his wives and unborn children.
• 3:59:11
  Speaker 5: He gets he gets give them.
• 3:59:15
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm sorry if I were one of if I
• 3:59:18
  Speaker 12: were one of the women, the fact that he was
• 3:59:19
  Speaker 12: ghoulishly inhabiting this other body that presumably shout us on
• 3:59:23
  Speaker 12: stole from somebody in the borderlands, that would creep me
• 3:59:26
  Speaker 12: out a little bit, Like I wouldn't want to be
• 3:59:28
  Speaker 12: a dick about it, but I'd be a little skeezed.
• 3:59:31
  Speaker 6: But just it might it might be a gotst to
• 3:59:34
  Speaker 6: go scenario.
• 3:59:35
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I'd be like, you know, I love you, man,
• 3:59:37
  Speaker 12: but I made my the.
• 3:59:41
  Speaker 5: I don't think is pregnant at that point, so he
• 3:59:44
  Speaker 5: definitely right.
• 3:59:46
  Speaker 3: So I had cannon that she is that I've got
• 3:59:49
  Speaker 3: into debates.
• 3:59:49
  Speaker 12: And yeah, I thought she got preggers, like the night
• 3:59:51
  Speaker 12: before the battle.
• 3:59:52
  Speaker 5: That's what I had, Cannon, I don't Yeah, that's never Yeah,
• 3:59:55
  Speaker 5: I don't think there's any confirmation but that some.
• 3:59:58
  Speaker 2: People want to tell me.
• 3:59:59
  Speaker 5: That subscribed as a very handsome young man.
• 4:00:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah, he's pretty enough for grandle.
• 4:00:04
  Speaker 12: Yeah, he's just a body that got stolen from some
• 4:00:08
  Speaker 12: poorchmark along the borderlands. Just coolish and kind of super creepy,
• 4:00:14
  Speaker 12: and I just might be a little put off by it,
• 4:00:17
  Speaker 12: that's just me.
• 4:00:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, you're going to go that route with it
• 4:00:22
  Speaker 4: in the show or do you think that they're going
• 4:00:25
  Speaker 4: to actually let him actually die.
• 4:00:39
  Speaker 5: A body?
• 4:00:40
  Speaker 13: Oh that's a good question. That they're going to do
• 4:00:41
  Speaker 13: the body swap.
• 4:00:43
  Speaker 2: That's like any of the transmigration reviving stuff.
• 4:00:48
  Speaker 5: You know what they would have to do at least
• 4:00:50
  Speaker 5: the initial like earlier stuff to set up the rand
• 4:00:53
  Speaker 5: part possibility.
• 4:00:55
  Speaker 16: Of it being a thing. Yeah, Like they can't just
• 4:00:57
  Speaker 16: bring that us on it. At the very end they
• 4:00:59
  Speaker 16: give us an instance of it being a possibility.
• 4:01:01
  Speaker 5: I don't see how they work around the shah Mael
• 4:01:04
  Speaker 5: more than party.
• 4:01:06
  Speaker 8: Don't know.
• 4:01:07
  Speaker 5: I think they would have to at least do that one.
• 4:01:10
  Speaker 12: Because, like the thing with the True Power is so confusing,
• 4:01:13
  Speaker 12: like the first time I read it, because you don't
• 4:01:15
  Speaker 12: even hear about it until book seven. Like if you
• 4:01:17
  Speaker 12: go back and read, you see instances of it, Like
• 4:01:19
  Speaker 12: you see it in the prologue of Dragon.
• 4:01:22
  Speaker 13: Yeah, when he appears.
• 4:01:24
  Speaker 2: You know what.
• 4:01:24
  Speaker 16: I hate the fact that in the Winter Dragon prologue
• 4:01:27
  Speaker 16: they talk about the One Power and the True Power.
• 4:01:30
  Speaker 13: Yeah, he says the one True Power.
• 4:01:32
  Speaker 5: He says, he does confusing, that's what he says. In
• 4:01:36
  Speaker 5: the lot he says, the one True powers.
• 4:01:40
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm billy, Look.
• 4:01:48
  Speaker 17: Sorry I killed your servant.
• 4:01:51
  Speaker 12: Oh my god? Did you did you listen to the
• 4:01:54
  Speaker 12: song that the guy wrote about the Black Wind? Yeah? Yeah,
• 4:02:01
  Speaker 12: what is it?
• 4:02:02
  Speaker 5: The Blackbird? Yeah?
• 4:02:03
  Speaker 2: That was I love that actually using the lyrics from
• 4:02:06
  Speaker 2: the books.
• 4:02:07
  Speaker 12: There were so.
• 4:02:08
  Speaker 6: Many fucking songs on that.
• 4:02:10
  Speaker 3: I'm like, well, no, I seriously, I want to have
• 4:02:13
  Speaker 3: wat spoilers, like just periodically review one of those videos
• 4:02:16
  Speaker 3: at a time, like just like across the next year,
• 4:02:18
  Speaker 3: like just periodically, just be like we're going to take
• 4:02:21
  Speaker 3: a while and just.
• 4:02:22
  Speaker 5: We're I think we're going to commit to putting out
• 4:02:24
  Speaker 5: song parodies like every couple of months because it's just
• 4:02:27
  Speaker 5: so much. I have like so many ideas that popped
• 4:02:29
  Speaker 5: into my head from that.
• 4:02:30
  Speaker 2: So okay, like I wasn't going to tell anyone this idea,
• 4:02:33
  Speaker 2: but like, because you guys are cool, nobody did Broadway covers.
• 4:02:38
  Speaker 2: There was zero Broadway.
• 4:02:41
  Speaker 12: Broadway is a wide open niche for next year.
• 4:02:43
  Speaker 6: Wicked, I got Dims on Hamilton.
• 4:02:49
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm saying, a little mermaid made it to Broadway.
• 4:02:54
  Speaker 8: Oh boy, that's true.
• 4:02:56
  Speaker 6: Maybe I should do some Sondheim instead.
• 4:02:59
  Speaker 3: The only and also, like everyone played instruments, and I'm like, well,
• 4:03:01
  Speaker 3: the only instrument that I can even begin to play
• 4:03:03
  Speaker 3: a song on is I. Once upon a time, you
• 4:03:05
  Speaker 3: how to play the chords for Phantom of the Opera
• 4:03:07
  Speaker 3: on the piano. I used to be able to do this,
• 4:03:10
  Speaker 3: but it's like it's an angeloid Weber show, which is like.
• 4:03:15
  Speaker 4: You want to know what, there's no shame in enjoying
• 4:03:17
  Speaker 4: an Andrew Lloyd Webber show.
• 4:03:18
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I like.
• 4:03:21
  Speaker 3: Every time I mentioned how much I love cats, you call.
• 4:03:26
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to shame you for liking cats, but
• 4:03:28
  Speaker 4: what I will say is that I don't fucking get
• 4:03:30
  Speaker 4: the appeal.
• 4:03:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, only eight year old me gets the appeal.
• 4:03:35
  Speaker 2: The rest of me whatever.
• 4:03:37
  Speaker 12: Personally, I don't even like musicals, so you know, so
• 4:03:40
  Speaker 12: that makes me kind of like.
• 4:03:45
  Speaker 6: More musicals for me Broadway.
• 4:03:49
  Speaker 12: She took me to a Christmas Carol and I was
• 4:03:52
  Speaker 12: all excited, and when they started just saying, she was like,
• 4:03:54
  Speaker 12: I wanted to die because I knew you hate music.
• 4:03:59
  Speaker 5: Did a Christmas I'll become a musical beside the Muppets up.
• 4:04:05
  Speaker 4: That's all I only good Christmas Carrol musical. Yea.
• 4:04:11
  Speaker 5: Anyway, there's a there's a pretty crazy ending to this
• 4:04:14
  Speaker 5: book too, I think, right.
• 4:04:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think we're pretty much done.
• 4:04:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, before we get to the completely non exciting ending,
• 4:04:22
  Speaker 3: I just want to point out that this is the
• 4:04:23
  Speaker 3: book in which we get os and Gar and Ore
• 4:04:25
  Speaker 3: and gar oh yeah, on their respective subversive missions to
• 4:04:29
  Speaker 3: the two towers.
• 4:04:32
  Speaker 2: That happens.
• 4:04:34
  Speaker 16: I mean that links in with the whole body swap idea, right,
• 4:04:36
  Speaker 16: that was what would make me think of that. Yeah,
• 4:04:40
  Speaker 16: I think it is important that they include the body
• 4:04:41
  Speaker 16: swaps and the TV show like however they want to
• 4:04:44
  Speaker 16: execute that. But it is a thing that the Dark
• 4:04:46
  Speaker 16: One can do is putting people into bodies. And I
• 4:04:49
  Speaker 16: mean we can even talk about the whole immortality thing
• 4:04:52
  Speaker 16: that the Dark One offers is based not on getting
• 4:04:55
  Speaker 16: to live for all eternity in your body, but you
• 4:04:58
  Speaker 16: get to keep switching into new bodies. Lord of the Yeah,
• 4:05:04
  Speaker 16: Like that's the entire the concept of him pulling you
• 4:05:07
  Speaker 16: back when you of my cats are like freaking out
• 4:05:10
  Speaker 16: right now they're fighting.
• 4:05:11
  Speaker 17: Mine's been the whole time.
• 4:05:15
  Speaker 16: But yeah, that's the whole thing of like the Dark
• 4:05:16
  Speaker 16: One what he like, he pulls you and he puts
• 4:05:18
  Speaker 16: you into a new body. That's like the immortality thing.
• 4:05:21
  Speaker 16: Like I never really thought that he's just like issue
• 4:05:23
  Speaker 16: would get to live forever as Ishamel because even from
• 4:05:27
  Speaker 16: Age of Legends, like he was who he was and
• 4:05:29
  Speaker 16: that body is the same body that he's had. But
• 4:05:31
  Speaker 16: it's like it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to get
• 4:05:33
  Speaker 16: to live forever in that same body if he hadn't
• 4:05:36
  Speaker 16: have died in that body.
• 4:05:39
  Speaker 20: Yeah, and so it's been interesting to me that, like,
• 4:05:44
  Speaker 20: the Lord of the Grave is a bad guy, and
• 4:05:47
  Speaker 20: yet death is a natural good thing and immortality is
• 4:05:51
  Speaker 20: like the thing he offers out.
• 4:05:53
  Speaker 2: It's just like death has a very interesting place in
• 4:05:56
  Speaker 2: their cosmology.
• 4:05:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, And he's the only one that we know of.
• 4:06:02
  Speaker 5: He's only I'm gonna say you meet, But he's the
• 4:06:04
  Speaker 5: only one you know of or the entity besides the
• 4:06:08
  Speaker 5: Wheel of the pattern that has control over souls or
• 4:06:11
  Speaker 5: has some sort of control over the souls.
• 4:06:13
  Speaker 16: But I mean, he obviously doesn't have full control to
• 4:06:15
  Speaker 16: the extent that he likes to break that he does
• 4:06:17
  Speaker 16: because if you think about any hero of the Horn,
• 4:06:19
  Speaker 16: any soul, anybody like that, It's not like he just
• 4:06:21
  Speaker 16: gets like pick and choose any old soul.
• 4:06:23
  Speaker 5: Now I feel like they have to swear to him.
• 4:06:25
  Speaker 5: It has something to do with like, oh, swearing to
• 4:06:27
  Speaker 5: him or something like that.
• 4:06:29
  Speaker 16: It's like, if you give into that side, then you
• 4:06:31
  Speaker 16: are susceptible to it. But then there's also the whole
• 4:06:34
  Speaker 16: entire concept of no one is so far gone in
• 4:06:36
  Speaker 16: the shadow that you can't return to the lights. So
• 4:06:39
  Speaker 16: that really builds into the whole Christian ideal. And we
• 4:06:42
  Speaker 16: know that he rubber durding like to poll out of
• 4:06:44
  Speaker 16: like you know, Christian mythos and everything like that about
• 4:06:48
  Speaker 16: if you as long as you swear before you die
• 4:06:50
  Speaker 16: and give yourself to Christ, then you can be saved. Right,
• 4:06:53
  Speaker 16: it's the exact same concept.
• 4:06:55
  Speaker 5: I imagine it's a choice too. If the Dark One
• 4:06:57
  Speaker 5: wants to bring you back, it's probably a choice like
• 4:07:00
  Speaker 5: if you say no, then he you know you're you're
• 4:07:03
  Speaker 5: gone for good. But it's not like I don't think
• 4:07:05
  Speaker 5: he could bring you back if you didn't want to
• 4:07:07
  Speaker 5: come back, if.
• 4:07:08
  Speaker 2: You had before.
• 4:07:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I like to think with.
• 4:07:12
  Speaker 16: You it's a lot of showboarding from the Dark One saying, oh,
• 4:07:15
  Speaker 16: I get to own everybody when you die, But it's
• 4:07:17
  Speaker 16: like not really, that's not really how it works.
• 4:07:22
  Speaker 12: Yeah, And it's like I think that the thing with
• 4:07:25
  Speaker 12: I mean, Helena is obviously or iron Gar is obviously
• 4:07:27
  Speaker 12: problematic for a ton of reasons. And it's like purely
• 4:07:31
  Speaker 12: from a tactical standpoint, like she's a really good plot device,
• 4:07:36
  Speaker 12: but really it's like you should be using male pronouns
• 4:07:40
  Speaker 12: and stuff, because it's almost like a perfect example of
• 4:07:45
  Speaker 12: it's there is a male soul in a woman's body.
• 4:07:48
  Speaker 12: Who is using the male half of the power, and
• 4:07:50
  Speaker 12: so it's almost like proof that your body does not
• 4:07:53
  Speaker 12: dictate your gender. And so if you did it properly,
• 4:07:59
  Speaker 12: then you could do good trans representation that way. And
• 4:08:02
  Speaker 12: obviously RJ did not, And you know, I'm not trans obviously,
• 4:08:07
  Speaker 12: so I can't do you know, I cannot speak and
• 4:08:10
  Speaker 12: don't want to speak too much as to how it
• 4:08:12
  Speaker 12: would be proper to do that. But if they had
• 4:08:14
  Speaker 12: someone that they could consult so that they could do
• 4:08:17
  Speaker 12: that in a sensitive fashion, they might be able to
• 4:08:20
  Speaker 12: pull it off really well.
• 4:08:21
  Speaker 8: But I don't know.
• 4:08:23
  Speaker 4: It feels like there's an opening there, but it has
• 4:08:26
  Speaker 4: to be handled so so so delicately.
• 4:08:28
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I agree.
• 4:08:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're one hundred percent right, though, Morgan,
• 4:08:32
  Speaker 5: it is more of a plot device, right. I think
• 4:08:34
  Speaker 5: he was like, let's have a female character that channel
• 4:08:37
  Speaker 5: sideine so and she's or he you know, it's in
• 4:08:41
  Speaker 5: the in saladar where none of them can sense it,
• 4:08:45
  Speaker 5: So it's kind of like a great plot device. But
• 4:08:48
  Speaker 5: you're right, it's more like how they handle it. I
• 4:08:50
  Speaker 5: think that's you got. I would like them, Yeah, that
• 4:08:53
  Speaker 5: plot device, because it's really interesting and it's really snaky
• 4:08:57
  Speaker 5: and great, but you're right, they have to like handle
• 4:08:59
  Speaker 5: it and approach it in a in a proper way,
• 4:09:01
  Speaker 5: I think to make it.
• 4:09:02
  Speaker 12: Yeah, if it hadn't been like a punishment, or if
• 4:09:06
  Speaker 12: they hadn't been talking about how it was a joke
• 4:09:08
  Speaker 12: so much, and if Orangar's inter narrative had continued to
• 4:09:12
  Speaker 12: be you know, a male internarrative, you know, that might
• 4:09:16
  Speaker 12: have been a.
• 4:09:16
  Speaker 17: More reasonable trance representation.
• 4:09:19
  Speaker 12: But yeah, I think that they could do that well
• 4:09:22
  Speaker 12: in the show if they consulted people who you know,
• 4:09:27
  Speaker 12: can give a proper idea of how it would be
• 4:09:29
  Speaker 12: best to go about that, because it is a really
• 4:09:31
  Speaker 12: good plot device for some serious you know, sneaking around
• 4:09:36
  Speaker 12: and serious potential for betrayal and you know, so.
• 4:09:41
  Speaker 16: Yeah, I think that they definitely should include. But like
• 4:09:43
  Speaker 16: you like kind of just readering those points. But I
• 4:09:45
  Speaker 16: also think if they choose not to, I think that
• 4:09:47
  Speaker 16: would do a disservice to it, because then you're just
• 4:09:50
  Speaker 16: trying to like pretend it never happened. But I mean,
• 4:09:52
  Speaker 16: it happens in the books, right, We're just trying to
• 4:09:55
  Speaker 16: erase that the fact that this is like, this is
• 4:09:58
  Speaker 16: a thing isn't isn't good either.
• 4:10:00
  Speaker 5: I know, And I think right Arongar comes to enjoy
• 4:10:03
  Speaker 5: his her new body a lot. And I don't know
• 4:10:08
  Speaker 5: if it's from like that old like thing, you know,
• 4:10:10
  Speaker 5: like like you know the old man if you know
• 4:10:13
  Speaker 5: men saying oh if I had boobs, I'd be playing
• 4:10:15
  Speaker 5: with them all day kind of thing. But yeah, I
• 4:10:20
  Speaker 5: think I think it's a great plot device. I think
• 4:10:23
  Speaker 5: it's something that they should include. But yeah, I think
• 4:10:25
  Speaker 5: they just need to approach it maybe a little bit different,
• 4:10:27
  Speaker 5: tweak and a little bit.
• 4:10:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the list, it was a heavy handed,
• 4:10:31
  Speaker 3: inappropriate tackling of a very important discussion, like.
• 4:10:35
  Speaker 2: And I mean it makes sense to send two sneaky
• 4:10:38
  Speaker 2: agents to each of the towers or each of the
• 4:10:41
  Speaker 2: groups of chance.
• 4:10:41
  Speaker 5: Yes, exactly exactly.
• 4:10:43
  Speaker 2: That Tactically it makes so much sense.
• 4:10:46
  Speaker 3: And he didn't have a female Forsaken that got killed
• 4:10:48
  Speaker 3: off in book one to work with, So that's.
• 4:10:51
  Speaker 5: A great way to change it though, Radio that you
• 4:10:53
  Speaker 5: bring that up, like they could change the way the
• 4:10:55
  Speaker 5: force it maybe in the maybe the two forsaken who
• 4:10:57
  Speaker 5: die in the beginning, or a male and a female
• 4:10:59
  Speaker 5: and then they switch them.
• 4:11:00
  Speaker 8: I mean, I said, a choice that's like right there
• 4:11:03
  Speaker 8: for the taking too.
• 4:11:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I mean, I guess it doesn't make sense
• 4:11:06
  Speaker 5: because Dashiva is a male chadler in the Black Tower
• 4:11:09
  Speaker 5: and that's how he's recruited. It kind of doesn't make sense.
• 4:11:11
  Speaker 5: But they could work it somehow into that.
• 4:11:14
  Speaker 16: Let's talk about the worst part about how the fact
• 4:11:15
  Speaker 16: that is not Aaron Gar and you're calling and Aaron
• 4:11:20
  Speaker 16: guard both.
• 4:11:22
  Speaker 2: I hate that so much.
• 4:11:24
  Speaker 5: I forget.
• 4:11:26
  Speaker 2: I can't keep it straight.
• 4:11:27
  Speaker 8: Just remember, is not Aaron Gar.
• 4:11:31
  Speaker 2: The a's do not match up. I might be able
• 4:11:34
  Speaker 2: to remember that, it's obviousit it's obviously.
• 4:11:37
  Speaker 3: For the really hard one is remembering which Ahaman is
• 4:11:41
  Speaker 3: Osanar and like is it?
• 4:11:46
  Speaker 2: I can never remember Bells the one.
• 4:11:50
  Speaker 13: He's the one who gets calendar.
• 4:11:51
  Speaker 3: Right, there are two dudes with similar names I have.
• 4:11:57
  Speaker 16: How many are they going to wipe out from the
• 4:11:59
  Speaker 16: show because no one can keep the name Strade?
• 4:12:02
  Speaker 5: Well, how many are going to get wiped out too?
• 4:12:05
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 4:12:06
  Speaker 5: I remember like posting like a list of all the
• 4:12:09
  Speaker 5: Isidi that's name starts with S, like.
• 4:12:14
  Speaker 16: Even the facts already cost cast is like Elina is
• 4:12:18
  Speaker 16: going to have a bigger role obviously in the TV
• 4:12:20
  Speaker 16: show because she's cast and it's like they're gonna combine,
• 4:12:23
  Speaker 16: and again, I get it.
• 4:12:25
  Speaker 5: Just hurt us? That does it hurts?
• 4:12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 4:12:30
  Speaker 4: For sure.
• 4:12:31
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about other annoying female things.
• 4:12:33
  Speaker 3: Can we just yell about how Men has a really
• 4:12:37
  Speaker 3: really crappy plot arc in this book.
• 4:12:41
  Speaker 2: I'm going to show up and just have the vapors.
• 4:12:44
  Speaker 2: I need a faint.
• 4:12:47
  Speaker 9: R.
• 4:12:48
  Speaker 6: J did her so dirty?
• 4:12:54
  Speaker 4: People don't like when I call them in a sexy lamp.
• 4:12:58
  Speaker 4: And I want you to understand this is not a
• 4:13:00
  Speaker 4: reflection on Min herself. Min is a badass. Min God
• 4:13:03
  Speaker 4: did dirty. This is our J's fault, one hundred percent.
• 4:13:07
  Speaker 4: He took this amazing, badass, super cool character and then
• 4:13:11
  Speaker 4: turned her into the simpering whatever the fuck? And I
• 4:13:15
  Speaker 4: was just like, how dare you? Yeah, Like couldn't even
• 4:13:22
  Speaker 4: let her land a shot when she was like throwing
• 4:13:25
  Speaker 4: knives at a forestake and like you couldn't even give
• 4:13:26
  Speaker 4: her one?
• 4:13:28
  Speaker 6: You one win, give her one w couldn't even do that?
• 4:13:33
  Speaker 16: Well, they get her to do the book learning that
• 4:13:35
  Speaker 16: starts this book, doesn't it?
• 4:13:37
  Speaker 2: This is the book in which she picks.
• 4:13:39
  Speaker 5: Up herod Fell.
• 4:13:41
  Speaker 13: Is this herod Fell's first appearance in this book is.
• 4:13:44
  Speaker 5: First, that's right, that's right. I forgot he didn't make
• 4:13:50
  Speaker 5: it for entire.
• 4:13:50
  Speaker 16: He doesn't make it, which is funny because he does
• 4:13:54
  Speaker 16: have such a big influence.
• 4:13:55
  Speaker 2: And it's like everyone.
• 4:13:59
  Speaker 3: That note that that bookmark that she's got forever and ever. Yeah,
• 4:14:03
  Speaker 3: so this is I think this is the book where
• 4:14:06
  Speaker 3: she starts to read his stuff.
• 4:14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really fascinated with it.
• 4:14:09
  Speaker 3: I personally don't like the sexy lamp thing, just because
• 4:14:12
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you don't have to be.
• 4:14:14
  Speaker 2: A badass to be a bad ass, right, Like she
• 4:14:19
  Speaker 2: has a she has a bad month.
• 4:14:24
  Speaker 3: It's not great, but like she ends up being so underrated,
• 4:14:29
  Speaker 3: so taken for granted, so and she's so confident in
• 4:14:33
  Speaker 3: herself that.
• 4:14:33
  Speaker 2: She doesn't need to be in the center. She doesn't
• 4:14:35
  Speaker 2: need to be told how important or not a liability
• 4:14:38
  Speaker 2: she's She's.
• 4:14:38
  Speaker 3: Just like, aside from the whole super flirty makeup thing,
• 4:14:45
  Speaker 3: which I will never understand and I choose to pretend
• 4:14:49
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen. Like I love the part where she just
• 4:14:52
  Speaker 3: sits in the back and just reads until she pops
• 4:14:54
  Speaker 3: up like four books later, and it's like, oh, by
• 4:14:56
  Speaker 3: the way, I now have a PhD in quantum mechanic.
• 4:15:02
  Speaker 8: She's a sexy lamp.
• 4:15:06
  Speaker 3: She's got knives and books and all this stuff like
• 4:15:08
  Speaker 3: just hidden behind the lampshade.
• 4:15:11
  Speaker 4: Here's the concept of the sexy lamp is that if
• 4:15:13
  Speaker 4: there is a female character that you can replace with
• 4:15:17
  Speaker 4: a lamp and have it not make a difference, that's
• 4:15:22
  Speaker 4: the problem.
• 4:15:22
  Speaker 6: It's a neal gaming thing.
• 4:15:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, I've never I've only learned about this discourse.
• 4:15:27
  Speaker 6: Okay, So yeah, that's that's the idea.
• 4:15:29
  Speaker 4: You have a female character, if you can replace that
• 4:15:32
  Speaker 4: female character with a lamp, she is not a good character.
• 4:15:36
  Speaker 6: She is not being done justice.
• 4:15:37
  Speaker 4: And so that is why I call them in a
• 4:15:40
  Speaker 4: sexy lamp is because about this time she basically it's
• 4:15:47
  Speaker 4: like a it's like a personality change. You go from
• 4:15:51
  Speaker 4: this woman who's in the tower and she's like, okay,
• 4:15:53
  Speaker 4: you want me to do what with the hair curling
• 4:15:56
  Speaker 4: and the dress wearing?
• 4:15:57
  Speaker 6: And this is not.
• 4:15:57
  Speaker 4: How I roll to this whole Like I'm tripping all
• 4:16:03
  Speaker 4: over myself to like fawn over this boy.
• 4:16:07
  Speaker 5: Well yeah, but I'm gonna.
• 4:16:12
  Speaker 2: Of that shit.
• 4:16:13
  Speaker 16: Well just because you did it doesn't mean that some
• 4:16:15
  Speaker 16: girls and some women wouldn't want to, Like I totally
• 4:16:17
  Speaker 16: get the whole men Yeah, and the men and like
• 4:16:20
  Speaker 16: men and Vin the whole Missporn series. It's like Vin
• 4:16:22
  Speaker 16: has this whole controversy in her story arc and Miss
• 4:16:25
  Speaker 16: Born and if you haven't read it yet for anyone,
• 4:16:27
  Speaker 16: I'm gonna spoil it, so sorry what that but yours?
• 4:16:30
  Speaker 16: But she goes to the whole issue where it's like
• 4:16:32
  Speaker 16: she was the badass. She was like the Stree Street
• 4:16:35
  Speaker 16: arch and kid who grew up and didn't want to
• 4:16:37
  Speaker 16: be like anything other than what she was, and then
• 4:16:40
  Speaker 16: she kind of gets thrust into this role and then
• 4:16:42
  Speaker 16: she's thrust into a separate role where she has to
• 4:16:44
  Speaker 16: wear the fancy dresses and go to cocktails and all
• 4:16:47
  Speaker 16: this stuff, and she like battles internally and realizes she
• 4:16:50
  Speaker 16: actually likes that stuff too. And I don't see any
• 4:16:52
  Speaker 16: problem with men wanting to be the badass knife throwing
• 4:16:56
  Speaker 16: girl who wears pants and jeans in whatever you want
• 4:16:58
  Speaker 16: to call it, but also want to dress up and
• 4:17:00
  Speaker 16: look pretty for the guy she's trying to seduce, because
• 4:17:03
  Speaker 16: it's like, why we're.
• 4:17:04
  Speaker 4: Not talking about her dressing up and looking pretty. I
• 4:17:07
  Speaker 4: am talking about a literal personality change where all she's
• 4:17:11
  Speaker 4: doing is fawning over Rand and this is not I'm
• 4:17:16
  Speaker 4: not commenting on men on the way she was written.
• 4:17:21
  Speaker 13: It does happen when he was a.
• 4:17:22
  Speaker 6: Men stand out there. Don't get all up in my
• 4:17:24
  Speaker 6: junk saying that your girl is bad. I'm saying that
• 4:17:27
  Speaker 6: she wasn't doing justice.
• 4:17:28
  Speaker 4: I'm defending her because she was done poorly by It
• 4:17:33
  Speaker 4: was only for period, taken this independent woman and you've
• 4:17:37
  Speaker 4: turned her into an emotional support animal.
• 4:17:41
  Speaker 13: It's only for a period of time.
• 4:17:42
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I just it happened.
• 4:17:46
  Speaker 2: It sucked.
• 4:17:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he uses her right to read people for a while.
• 4:17:50
  Speaker 5: She's basically there, you know, to you know, he's like, oh,
• 4:17:54
  Speaker 5: you know, sitting, I'll hide you with the power and
• 4:17:56
  Speaker 5: you can read people and tell me what you see
• 4:17:58
  Speaker 5: on them. When he's meeting with people. I feel like
• 4:18:02
  Speaker 5: that's kind of just like a time in their relationship.
• 4:18:05
  Speaker 5: You know, when you're you know, when you first thought
• 4:18:07
  Speaker 5: a relationship with someone, all you want to do is
• 4:18:10
  Speaker 5: be with them and do whatever they want, and.
• 4:18:12
  Speaker 2: You know, get it like that.
• 4:18:14
  Speaker 16: Yeah, from an type of perspective, that's frustrating to see
• 4:18:17
  Speaker 16: even a friend go through that with a new boyfriend
• 4:18:20
  Speaker 16: slash girlfriend. It's like to become a different person almost
• 4:18:22
  Speaker 16: in your own brain.
• 4:18:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah right, yeah, I'm no one's saying it's good.
• 4:18:28
  Speaker 2: But no, I'm not saying it's good. It's like I
• 4:18:30
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 4:18:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I get it too. And she changes, she gets
• 4:18:34
  Speaker 5: out of that, she grows out of that.
• 4:18:35
  Speaker 12: My issue with men is that I think she's a
• 4:18:37
  Speaker 12: shitty emotional support animal. What I dislike about her so
• 4:18:44
  Speaker 12: much is the fact that, you know, Randon, she's like
• 4:18:49
  Speaker 12: basically the only one Ran talks to and she will
• 4:18:53
  Speaker 12: not talk to.
• 4:18:53
  Speaker 17: Him about like his impending to death.
• 4:18:56
  Speaker 12: When he wants to talk about his death, she like
• 4:18:58
  Speaker 12: stomps her feet and is like, don't you talk about that?
• 4:19:01
  Speaker 17: And I'm like, you're.
• 4:19:02
  Speaker 12: Basically leaving him alone when you're the only person that
• 4:19:05
  Speaker 12: he can talk to you about that. And he's like
• 4:19:08
  Speaker 12: he's got these two other women who live in reality,
• 4:19:11
  Speaker 12: and it's like Avianda is like, he's going to die,
• 4:19:14
  Speaker 12: you know, and I'll have this time with him and
• 4:19:16
  Speaker 12: then he's going to go die and that's sad, but
• 4:19:18
  Speaker 12: you know, it is what it is. And you've got
• 4:19:20
  Speaker 12: Elaine who holds onto some hope and you know, it's
• 4:19:23
  Speaker 12: like hoping that he doesn't die, but understands that that's
• 4:19:25
  Speaker 12: a real reality and possibility, you know, and then min
• 4:19:29
  Speaker 12: is just like she won't hear it and won't hear
• 4:19:31
  Speaker 12: when he wants to talk about it and everything, and
• 4:19:33
  Speaker 12: that's the act of emotional abandonment, and it really pisses
• 4:19:36
  Speaker 12: me off. And it's just sort of like he deserves,
• 4:19:39
  Speaker 12: if she's going to be there all the time, to
• 4:19:41
  Speaker 12: have a partner who lives in reality. And however hard
• 4:19:44
  Speaker 12: it is to shut up and listen to him when
• 4:19:46
  Speaker 12: he wants to talk about his impending death.
• 4:19:48
  Speaker 13: You know, she's being selfish at that point.
• 4:19:51
  Speaker 5: She wants to live in her like fantasy of or
• 4:19:54
  Speaker 5: we love each other and this is we want to
• 4:19:56
  Speaker 5: be happy to get and she doesn't want to hear
• 4:19:58
  Speaker 5: anything that's going to bring her down.
• 4:20:00
  Speaker 17: That's realistic.
• 4:20:00
  Speaker 12: But it really annoys me because I'm like, that's cruel,
• 4:20:03
  Speaker 12: you know, you don't you know, you don't think you're
• 4:20:05
  Speaker 12: being cruel, but you're being cruel. You know, your boy's
• 4:20:08
  Speaker 12: in a hard place and he just wants to talk
• 4:20:11
  Speaker 12: about how he's gonna die and it's sad and it's hard,
• 4:20:13
  Speaker 12: but you got to listen, you know. So, but that's
• 4:20:18
  Speaker 12: my beef with men. And yeah, also she annoys me
• 4:20:21
  Speaker 12: in book six, she really does. And I feel like
• 4:20:23
  Speaker 12: he was writing her because he felt like she was
• 4:20:26
  Speaker 12: gonna want to compete.
• 4:20:27
  Speaker 17: With a Lane.
• 4:20:28
  Speaker 12: And the one thing that I will say is that
• 4:20:31
  Speaker 12: Rand never wants her to change, Like he's never thinking
• 4:20:33
  Speaker 12: in his head that he wishes she were anything different.
• 4:20:37
  Speaker 8: Yeah, that's good.
• 4:20:39
  Speaker 5: That's a great point you made there, because you're right,
• 4:20:41
  Speaker 5: I think she's very self She's yeah, she's very self conscious,
• 4:20:47
  Speaker 5: and she's thinking like Rand's in love with Elane and
• 4:20:49
  Speaker 5: Lane's like a beautiful woman, and she's trying to compete
• 4:20:53
  Speaker 5: with that, and she's trying to overcompensate. And that's probably
• 4:20:56
  Speaker 5: where that whole like, you know, wanting to be pretty
• 4:20:58
  Speaker 5: and kind of being a little bit more forward with
• 4:21:00
  Speaker 5: him is because she's feeling very self conscious and she,
• 4:21:03
  Speaker 5: you know, she's like, how can I compete with these
• 4:21:05
  Speaker 5: other two women?
• 4:21:07
  Speaker 4: Which is funny because out of the three of them,
• 4:21:09
  Speaker 4: she's the one who's in bed with him every night.
• 4:21:12
  Speaker 6: What are you competing again?
• 4:21:13
  Speaker 5: You're there, Well, that doesn't happen now until you know,
• 4:21:16
  Speaker 5: that doesn't happen until like the end of this book
• 4:21:18
  Speaker 5: or right, does she even get is it in this book.
• 4:21:21
  Speaker 6: Or I thought they were. I thought they were already.
• 4:21:26
  Speaker 17: Yeah, it's boned down in book seven.
• 4:21:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so yeah, and then yeah she's with her Yeah,
• 4:21:32
  Speaker 5: and then that's when she kind of changes, I think
• 4:21:35
  Speaker 5: is obviously when they're sleeping together all the time. But
• 4:21:38
  Speaker 5: I think that's where a lot of it comes from, though.
• 4:21:39
  Speaker 5: It is just literally her self consciousness and insecurities, you know,
• 4:21:42
  Speaker 5: when you're trying to compete with Oline.
• 4:21:46
  Speaker 2: Sexy lamp almost seems like a good strategy.
• 4:21:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:21:50
  Speaker 12: I feel like his logic in writing it was you know, understandable,
• 4:21:55
  Speaker 12: but I think he was a little heavy handed with it,
• 4:21:57
  Speaker 12: you know, because just I feel like, yeah, she's just
• 4:22:02
  Speaker 12: a little bit too simpering, and I mean I almost
• 4:22:05
  Speaker 12: feel like she's doing it over at the top on
• 4:22:06
  Speaker 12: purpose to make fun of him, because that's kind of
• 4:22:10
  Speaker 12: how she rolls is to Yeah, like when she's telling
• 4:22:14
  Speaker 12: him that she can just when she's viewing the noble
• 4:22:17
  Speaker 12: she can just drape herself on his lap and feed
• 4:22:19
  Speaker 12: him grapes and be her little lips. And he's like,
• 4:22:23
  Speaker 12: no way, he's not having him think filthy thoughts about her.
• 4:22:27
  Speaker 2: She's like, but I am such a sexy lamp. I
• 4:22:30
  Speaker 2: may look at this.
• 4:22:45
  Speaker 4: Sidebar every time I think of a sexy lamp, I
• 4:22:47
  Speaker 4: think of the leg lamp from a same of.
• 4:22:50
  Speaker 3: Course, thank you so much for explaining it to me,
• 4:22:53
  Speaker 3: because that's all I've ever been able to have in
• 4:22:55
  Speaker 3: my head, and it has not helped my resolution around
• 4:22:58
  Speaker 3: this issue. Like so, like, I have much more appreciation
• 4:23:01
  Speaker 3: for the criticism of the sexy lamp now that you've
• 4:23:03
  Speaker 3: given me the correct bexstory.
• 4:23:06
  Speaker 6: You're very welcome.
• 4:23:07
  Speaker 4: I guess I always I just assume that people know
• 4:23:09
  Speaker 4: what that is, and I shouldn't assume that people know
• 4:23:11
  Speaker 4: that is.
• 4:23:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, at this point I've talked about it. You
• 4:23:13
  Speaker 3: think I know what it is, but I was just
• 4:23:15
  Speaker 3: my ass so whatever.
• 4:23:18
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I only recently learned about it, and I was like,
• 4:23:21
  Speaker 12: that's honestly really cool.
• 4:23:23
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really cool statement.
• 4:23:25
  Speaker 12: And you know, it's important to have, you know, to
• 4:23:29
  Speaker 12: be aware of that kind of stuff when you're reading
• 4:23:31
  Speaker 12: a book where a man is writing women I'm actually
• 4:23:34
  Speaker 12: interested in. My wife is younger than I am, and
• 4:23:37
  Speaker 12: so having her as a you know, a member of
• 4:23:39
  Speaker 12: a younger generation reading a book like this, hearing her
• 4:23:42
  Speaker 12: insights about it is interesting, and so because she's early
• 4:23:46
  Speaker 12: enough in it, that's like they're just.
• 4:23:49
  Speaker 17: You know, leaving Emmons Field.
• 4:23:51
  Speaker 12: And so she's just having this perception of Emmon's Field
• 4:23:54
  Speaker 12: women and how they're you know, really assertive, and she
• 4:23:57
  Speaker 12: feels like he wrote them almost aggressive and out of assertive,
• 4:24:00
  Speaker 12: and like he you know, he crossed over that line.
• 4:24:03
  Speaker 12: And she's like, so my judgment about whether he can
• 4:24:06
  Speaker 12: write women well or not will depend upon whether all
• 4:24:09
  Speaker 12: of the strong women in the book are you know, aggressive,
• 4:24:12
  Speaker 12: and you know, so I'm just sad of like, Okay,
• 4:24:15
  Speaker 12: well just keep reading because obviously not all of them
• 4:24:18
  Speaker 12: are like that and find out.
• 4:24:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean, I mean, I guess you also
• 4:24:23
  Speaker 5: have to bring up I mean, his editor was his wife,
• 4:24:26
  Speaker 5: and she read all of this stuff and gave him
• 4:24:28
  Speaker 5: notes and tips, and I'm sure stuff was changed because
• 4:24:31
  Speaker 5: of her.
• 4:24:31
  Speaker 4: So you want to know what's funny is at Jordan
• 4:24:35
  Speaker 4: Con twenty nineteen, I sat in on the Team Jordan
• 4:24:39
  Speaker 4: panel and somebody asked Harriet something related to what it
• 4:24:43
  Speaker 4: was like to edit for him, and she said he
• 4:24:47
  Speaker 4: was a tiger and if he wanted it in, it
• 4:24:50
  Speaker 4: went in.
• 4:24:51
  Speaker 5: Oh wow.
• 4:24:51
  Speaker 4: So he took her advice to a certain extent, but
• 4:24:54
  Speaker 4: if Julie attached to something, Rgie apparently would not kill
• 4:24:58
  Speaker 4: his darlings if you wanted it in it went in.
• 4:25:01
  Speaker 5: Oh wow, I didn't know that. That's great insight.
• 4:25:04
  Speaker 16: I mean that makes sense too, because he described himself
• 4:25:07
  Speaker 16: as like the Old Testament God of it's my fist
• 4:25:09
  Speaker 16: going into this book.
• 4:25:11
  Speaker 8: So like I understand that. Yeah, like they will do
• 4:25:14
  Speaker 8: what I say they don't.
• 4:25:15
  Speaker 16: Because he was asked about like, oh, do you let
• 4:25:17
  Speaker 16: the characters kind of like explore themselves and like let
• 4:25:19
  Speaker 16: it happen the way you wanted to, like the way
• 4:25:22
  Speaker 16: the characters want to happen, and he's like, nope, they're
• 4:25:24
  Speaker 16: my characters, is my story. What happens is what I want.
• 4:25:27
  Speaker 12: Like, but you know, he is so good at getting
• 4:25:33
  Speaker 12: into their heads, and I feel like he does like
• 4:25:36
  Speaker 12: a massive empathy exercise with each character that he writes,
• 4:25:40
  Speaker 12: and in that sense, it's like he makes himself into them,
• 4:25:44
  Speaker 12: or you know, he lives inside.
• 4:25:45
  Speaker 2: Them in that way.
• 4:25:46
  Speaker 12: And so I feel like at that point, you get
• 4:25:48
  Speaker 12: to be both God and your creation as you're writing,
• 4:25:51
  Speaker 12: and so that's like you've got to steer at that point.
• 4:25:56
  Speaker 12: And I think that.
• 4:25:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, given the level of detail that he put
• 4:26:00
  Speaker 4: into this entire story, to the point where shit that
• 4:26:03
  Speaker 4: happened in book one is paying off in book fourteen.
• 4:26:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, it isn't unreasonable to expect that he knows
• 4:26:10
  Speaker 4: all of his characters so well that.
• 4:26:13
  Speaker 6: He already knows what they would do.
• 4:26:15
  Speaker 4: It isn't a question of you know, writing and letting
• 4:26:18
  Speaker 4: them explore the space, because he already knows them well
• 4:26:20
  Speaker 4: enough to know exactly what they would do.
• 4:26:23
  Speaker 16: So, I mean, even just fore like, for a lot
• 4:26:25
  Speaker 16: of readers, just because you don't necessarily like something that
• 4:26:28
  Speaker 16: a character does doesn't mean that it's a poorly written
• 4:26:31
  Speaker 16: character scene.
• 4:26:32
  Speaker 2: It's just like.
• 4:26:33
  Speaker 16: There's people in real life that I don't like the
• 4:26:35
  Speaker 16: things that they do, and it doesn't mean that they're
• 4:26:37
  Speaker 16: any less of a real person. It's just like I
• 4:26:40
  Speaker 16: just disagree with what the person is doing. It doesn't
• 4:26:43
  Speaker 16: mean that it's a bad like you know, know what
• 4:26:45
  Speaker 16: I'm saying, like the yeah people sends them to do.
• 4:26:50
  Speaker 5: Yes, you know, people try to like exactly what you're saying.
• 4:26:54
  Speaker 5: People try to pin like the characters on the author,
• 4:26:57
  Speaker 5: like like the author condones everything that they like because
• 4:27:01
  Speaker 5: I wrote this happened. That means I think it's okay.
• 4:27:04
  Speaker 16: Because the sea have slaves, I can do in slavery.
• 4:27:07
  Speaker 16: Fucking No, it's like that really happens in real life,
• 4:27:11
  Speaker 16: so like, and that was the thing. He took stuff
• 4:27:13
  Speaker 16: from real life. Even the fact that like Rand makes
• 4:27:15
  Speaker 16: an agreement with the shaan Chen to let them keep
• 4:27:17
  Speaker 16: slaves is a direct parallel to like United States history, Like, unfortunately,
• 4:27:24
  Speaker 16: that shit happens in real life. And that's why it's
• 4:27:26
  Speaker 16: so relevant. And that's why when you read it you
• 4:27:29
  Speaker 16: should look at it and think, oh my god, this
• 4:27:31
  Speaker 16: is terrible. That's a good thing that you look at
• 4:27:34
  Speaker 16: it and don't think.
• 4:27:35
  Speaker 13: That the author think that that's okay.
• 4:27:37
  Speaker 8: Of course not.
• 4:27:37
  Speaker 2: But it's like how you.
• 4:27:38
  Speaker 13: People do people do that?
• 4:27:40
  Speaker 16: Though, Well, those people are stupid and you shouldn't read
• 4:27:43
  Speaker 16: the book podcast, Well you shouldn't because you're.
• 4:27:47
  Speaker 8: Gonna hate what I have to say.
• 4:27:49
  Speaker 6: They feel bad.
• 4:27:51
  Speaker 17: So much of what he does isn't like, you know,
• 4:27:54
  Speaker 17: making a moral.
• 4:27:54
  Speaker 12: Judgment so much as just being like, what would realistically
• 4:27:58
  Speaker 12: happen from this?
• 4:27:58
  Speaker 8: Yeah, That's what I love so.
• 4:28:00
  Speaker 12: Much is that he uses so much logic and reason
• 4:28:03
  Speaker 12: to determine, you know, if A then be what would
• 4:28:06
  Speaker 12: happen from C And many of the frustrations I've heard
• 4:28:09
  Speaker 12: from people who either like, you know, give up on
• 4:28:12
  Speaker 12: the series because they're like, it's fantasy. I want then,
• 4:28:15
  Speaker 12: you know, I want the fantastic to use the fantasy
• 4:28:18
  Speaker 12: medium to affect a happier ending. And it's like, but
• 4:28:22
  Speaker 12: you know, realistically that would not have happened.
• 4:28:25
  Speaker 16: So but I mean, and you you kind of like
• 4:28:28
  Speaker 16: made a huge point there. It's like, what would happen
• 4:28:31
  Speaker 16: a lot of the things that happen in the wheel
• 4:28:33
  Speaker 16: of time. He has historical evidence that when people are
• 4:28:37
  Speaker 16: in this situation, this is what they will do. If
• 4:28:40
  Speaker 16: people are put into a life or death situation, they
• 4:28:43
  Speaker 16: will make the wrong decision and choose the bad option
• 4:28:46
  Speaker 16: and do the wrong thing to save their own butt.
• 4:28:49
  Speaker 16: Like that's what happens. Whether or not you agree with it,
• 4:28:52
  Speaker 16: it doesn't matter.
• 4:28:54
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 4:28:54
  Speaker 4: But by the same token, you know, the author is
• 4:29:03
  Speaker 4: not without flaw. Oh no, you know some of the
• 4:29:08
  Speaker 4: ship that he wrote, yeah it was real, but he
• 4:29:10
  Speaker 4: wrote it poorly, Like look at the whole uh Matt
• 4:29:16
  Speaker 4: Thailand situation. Missed the fucking point on that one.
• 4:29:21
  Speaker 6: But with that one, big time.
• 4:29:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm actually that.
• 4:29:26
  Speaker 4: Planet is making fun of assault and rape a way
• 4:29:30
  Speaker 4: to illustrate that men can be victims of it as well.
• 4:29:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree, I'm up to that point. Yeah, I
• 4:29:38
  Speaker 5: think it's.
• 4:29:39
  Speaker 4: It's just because that's the way he did it, and
• 4:29:41
  Speaker 4: he did it on purpose, doesn't mean that it was
• 4:29:44
  Speaker 4: well done.
• 4:29:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely, I think And I know people don't like
• 4:29:48
  Speaker 5: to hear this excuse, but and this isn't that really
• 4:29:51
  Speaker 5: really that long a though, but people like try to
• 4:29:54
  Speaker 5: judge people from like two hundred years ago by standards
• 4:29:57
  Speaker 5: that we have today. And I don't not that this
• 4:30:00
  Speaker 5: was done two hundred years ago, but I don't think
• 4:30:02
  Speaker 5: that's fair.
• 4:30:03
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I go, but I think, yeah, it was poorly done.
• 4:30:07
  Speaker 5: I think I think things were that was a little
• 4:30:09
  Speaker 5: bit more normal when he wrote that. Not that I'm
• 4:30:12
  Speaker 5: saying it's okay, but I think that was a little
• 4:30:13
  Speaker 5: bit more normal. It definitely if you look back on
• 4:30:15
  Speaker 5: it now, it's definitely weird. And I'm up to that
• 4:30:18
  Speaker 5: part in Crown of Swords right now and I'm listening
• 4:30:20
  Speaker 5: to it and I'm like.
• 4:30:22
  Speaker 13: Oh, yeah, wow, this is a little bit too much.
• 4:30:25
  Speaker 13: Like well, I definitely handled.
• 4:30:26
  Speaker 16: Even this conversation that we're having. In another twenty years,
• 4:30:30
  Speaker 16: it could very easily every single one of us in
• 4:30:33
  Speaker 16: this conversation. People could look back and be like, these
• 4:30:35
  Speaker 16: are terrible people.
• 4:30:36
  Speaker 5: It could be a banned book in twenty years that
• 4:30:40
  Speaker 5: they're betting doctors. They're betting doctor Seuss books right now.
• 4:30:44
  Speaker 7: So they're just not publishing.
• 4:30:45
  Speaker 6: Answer, right, I think there's more to it. And then
• 4:30:47
  Speaker 6: they're not actually banned, they're.
• 4:30:49
  Speaker 2: Just not publishing.
• 4:30:50
  Speaker 5: They're not publishing anymore. Okay, Yeah, so they might not
• 4:30:52
  Speaker 5: publish it.
• 4:30:54
  Speaker 4: But you know, here's my perspective on it. Slavery was accepted,
• 4:31:04
  Speaker 4: however many you know, four hundred years ago.
• 4:31:07
  Speaker 6: Doesn't mean it was okay, doesn't mean it was right.
• 4:31:11
  Speaker 4: It was correct just because you had Just because the
• 4:31:15
  Speaker 4: majority of people at a period of time thought that
• 4:31:17
  Speaker 4: something was okay or funny or acceptable or whatever, doesn't
• 4:31:22
  Speaker 4: mean that it actually was in time when it was
• 4:31:27
  Speaker 4: okay for the rule of thumb. That's how mega husband's
• 4:31:32
  Speaker 4: stick could be when he wanted to beat his wife.
• 4:31:36
  Speaker 6: That's not okay. Meeting your wife is not okay. It's
• 4:31:39
  Speaker 6: never been okay.
• 4:31:40
  Speaker 4: It was acceptable by society, but it wasn't okay.
• 4:31:45
  Speaker 6: So I think it's perfectly fine to.
• 4:31:46
  Speaker 4: Judge people's actions based on today's standards, because we're getting better,
• 4:31:51
  Speaker 4: we're understanding that it's not okay to take a try
• 4:31:57
  Speaker 4: to do a humorous take on somebody being forced into
• 4:32:01
  Speaker 4: sexual intercourse against their will. It wasn't okay when he
• 4:32:04
  Speaker 4: wrote it. He had a like, really wrong minded idea
• 4:32:07
  Speaker 4: when he and Harriet decided to do it that way,
• 4:32:09
  Speaker 4: And we recognize that now, and I don't think that
• 4:32:14
  Speaker 4: it's unfair for me to say, Okay.
• 4:32:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he was a middle aged white man in the nineties,
• 4:32:18
  Speaker 6: so he gets like, I will excuse it. No, I
• 4:32:21
  Speaker 6: won't excuse it. It was bad and he shouldn't have
• 4:32:23
  Speaker 6: done it, and.
• 4:32:24
  Speaker 2: Like, but it was progressive for its time, and like,
• 4:32:27
  Speaker 2: I think there are.
• 4:32:28
  Speaker 6: Definitely parts of it that were progressive.
• 4:32:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I think what I was trying to say is
• 4:32:32
  Speaker 5: it's more it's I'm not saying that you know everything
• 4:32:35
  Speaker 5: is acceptable to happen. I'm saying there's a sliding scale,
• 4:32:38
  Speaker 5: and you know, the line is moved, the line is
• 4:32:41
  Speaker 5: constantly moving as to what's acceptable and what's not acceptable.
• 4:32:44
  Speaker 5: And I'm not saying right right, yeah, And I'm not
• 4:32:47
  Speaker 5: saying like, I'm not saying rape that's a different story,
• 4:32:50
  Speaker 5: you know, that's a clear line, or slavery that's a
• 4:32:52
  Speaker 5: clear line. But there are things where, you know, one
• 4:32:55
  Speaker 5: hundred years ago it was okay to do something not
• 4:32:59
  Speaker 5: you know, certain things, not rape, not slavery, that aren't
• 4:33:03
  Speaker 5: okay now. And we don't want to go and judge
• 4:33:06
  Speaker 5: people necessarily on certain things. Then that's all I'm saying.
• 4:33:09
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying, you know, there are certain things exactly
• 4:33:11
  Speaker 5: what you said, there are certain things that are never acceptable.
• 4:33:14
  Speaker 4: But I think there's a I think a much much,
• 4:33:17
  Speaker 4: much harder line on that than probably a lot of people.
• 4:33:20
  Speaker 5: Okay, well, yeah, it's you know what, it's hard. It's
• 4:33:24
  Speaker 5: I find it hard to judge things like that when
• 4:33:26
  Speaker 5: you didn't live back then and you experience life back then.
• 4:33:30
  Speaker 5: And yeah, it's I think that's the key.
• 4:33:33
  Speaker 13: Well, and I guess.
• 4:33:34
  Speaker 4: It's difficult to be able to kind of understand exactly
• 4:33:37
  Speaker 4: where you're coming from because you're not giving me a
• 4:33:39
  Speaker 4: specific example exactly.
• 4:33:41
  Speaker 5: That's I know, and I'm sorry for you.
• 4:33:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so, but i'd roll that into I take a
• 4:33:50
  Speaker 6: hard line on it.
• 4:33:51
  Speaker 16: So I mean, I mean, so for specific examples, I
• 4:33:53
  Speaker 16: mean things that are acceptable today that we're in twenty
• 4:33:56
  Speaker 16: years ago. Like I have memories of me as like
• 4:33:59
  Speaker 16: a four year old kid, and I dressed up as
• 4:34:02
  Speaker 16: like an I had like the indigenous Halloween costume with
• 4:34:05
  Speaker 16: the like the feathers and everything like that. Objectively today
• 4:34:09
  Speaker 16: not okay, like I'm not going to have that, Like
• 4:34:11
  Speaker 16: you're not going to buy those Halloween costumes. But when
• 4:34:13
  Speaker 16: I was like a four year old, that was something
• 4:34:16
  Speaker 16: that was sold at stores.
• 4:34:18
  Speaker 2: People dressed up as it.
• 4:34:19
  Speaker 16: And it's like there's Halloween costumes of that of me,
• 4:34:23
  Speaker 16: And it's like, can we judge me as a four
• 4:34:25
  Speaker 16: year old? Like if you if you want to.
• 4:34:27
  Speaker 6: Go for it's not about it's not about It's not
• 4:34:30
  Speaker 6: about judging.
• 4:34:31
  Speaker 12: First of all.
• 4:34:31
  Speaker 4: Second of all, I would disagree with your idea that
• 4:34:35
  Speaker 4: it was different then because Okay, it was socially acceptable
• 4:34:39
  Speaker 4: to dress up as an Indigenous person, but it was
• 4:34:43
  Speaker 4: still just as harmful to indigenous people's then I agree
• 4:34:47
  Speaker 4: it is now the impact is the same. Intention means nothing.
• 4:34:52
  Speaker 4: Impact is what is important. So it was socially acceptable
• 4:34:54
  Speaker 4: to dress up like a Native American.
• 4:34:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but again, like even Native Americas, that's not in
• 4:34:59
  Speaker 2: the say.
• 4:35:00
  Speaker 4: Socially acceptable and okay, like morally acceptable are not the
• 4:35:04
  Speaker 4: same thing.
• 4:35:05
  Speaker 6: And that's the difference that I'm talking about.
• 4:35:07
  Speaker 16: Well, how do That's what I would say, moral scale, Like,
• 4:35:10
  Speaker 16: how do we how do we judge like something that
• 4:35:13
  Speaker 16: was done twenty years ago based on today's standards?
• 4:35:17
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I thought we do that change, I think.
• 4:35:19
  Speaker 6: More by doing it.
• 4:35:22
  Speaker 16: But you can't do something fifty or twenty years ago
• 4:35:25
  Speaker 16: that you didn't that we weren't there yet on the
• 4:35:28
  Speaker 16: sliding scale, right, that's.
• 4:35:29
  Speaker 5: What I mean.
• 4:35:30
  Speaker 2: This is the of the Everton window.
• 4:35:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, yeah, that's it's wrong. Exploiting indigenous peoples is wrong.
• 4:35:38
  Speaker 4: Exploiting people of color is wrong. It was wrong then
• 4:35:42
  Speaker 4: and it's wrong now why because of the impact and
• 4:35:45
  Speaker 4: the impact echoes through like the centuries too. But that's
• 4:35:49
  Speaker 4: kind I get right back, and I can say the
• 4:35:51
  Speaker 4: thing that they did was wrong.
• 4:35:52
  Speaker 6: It was wrong then. Socially acceptable, yeah, morally acceptable.
• 4:35:57
  Speaker 8: No, it was wrong.
• 4:35:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:35:58
  Speaker 8: But what I'm what I'm saying here, what I'm saying
• 4:36:01
  Speaker 8: on here, would you judge them the same way?
• 4:36:03
  Speaker 2: There?
• 4:36:03
  Speaker 16: There's going to be something that you are doing today
• 4:36:06
  Speaker 16: that in twenty years.
• 4:36:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're going to look back on it, and they're
• 4:36:10
  Speaker 4: going to say Jess was super wrong headed about the
• 4:36:12
  Speaker 4: ship she said, and it's probably going to be the
• 4:36:14
  Speaker 4: mint stuff to be perfectly, I will accept that. Yeah,
• 4:36:19
  Speaker 4: because very possible that something that I do. In fact,
• 4:36:23
  Speaker 4: it's pretty much guaranteed.
• 4:36:24
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 4:36:25
  Speaker 5: I think our point is like, you shouldn't.
• 4:36:27
  Speaker 6: Be wrong twenty ye shouldn't.
• 4:36:28
  Speaker 5: Judge people the same way.
• 4:36:30
  Speaker 4: Though, And I think people want to judge me according
• 4:36:33
  Speaker 4: to their current standards.
• 4:36:35
  Speaker 6: That's fine, No, just.
• 4:36:36
  Speaker 17: The point is that you are not a piece of shit.
• 4:36:40
  Speaker 12: Just even twenty years from now, someone is going to
• 4:36:43
  Speaker 12: be like, she was so wrong for the stuff that
• 4:36:45
  Speaker 12: we that she was doing.
• 4:36:46
  Speaker 8: It's like, you're not a piece of shit.
• 4:36:48
  Speaker 5: Yes, no one should be judging you for something you did.
• 4:36:52
  Speaker 5: Now that was nobody really saw anything wrong with it.
• 4:36:55
  Speaker 5: But now twenty years later they see I said, well that's.
• 4:36:58
  Speaker 16: The whole like gasoline cars, everybody.
• 4:37:03
  Speaker 4: Let me defend myself. I didn't say judging. I never
• 4:37:10
  Speaker 4: said judging. This is not about judging. It's not about
• 4:37:13
  Speaker 4: judging a person. This is about looking at something that
• 4:37:16
  Speaker 4: a person did and saying that was wrong. Okay, okay,
• 4:37:23
  Speaker 4: we're talking about actions.
• 4:37:24
  Speaker 6: We're not talking about people.
• 4:37:27
  Speaker 5: Uh yeah, OK, yeah, I think I think there are
• 4:37:30
  Speaker 5: other things though that people. I think there I think
• 4:37:33
  Speaker 5: there are other things that aren't wrong, aren't wrong now
• 4:37:36
  Speaker 5: that will eventually become wrong.
• 4:37:38
  Speaker 6: Oh, absolutely, because the things. That's the way things evolve.
• 4:37:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I don't I don't even necessarily think that's
• 4:37:44
  Speaker 4: correct yelling at you guys and be like, ad that
• 4:37:46
  Speaker 4: fucking bitch.
• 4:37:47
  Speaker 5: I don't necessarily even think that's correct. I think that's
• 4:37:50
  Speaker 5: a slippery slope. But let's what was it, Lord of chaos?
• 4:37:53
  Speaker 2: What was that? I ever got a I ever got
• 4:37:58
  Speaker 2: a breath? War crimes, war, Rand in the box being.
• 4:38:03
  Speaker 4: Torture, crimes, kneeling.
• 4:38:07
  Speaker 3: The power dynamics of Rand in a box and neel
• 4:38:10
  Speaker 3: or you shall be no. I feel like is the
• 4:38:12
  Speaker 3: logical place to take that?
• 4:38:15
  Speaker 2: Do my as wells of the debate?
• 4:38:18
  Speaker 5: I thought, I.
• 4:38:21
  Speaker 2: Don't know that.
• 4:38:23
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I remember the like way back that this was
• 4:38:27
  Speaker 13: a lot longer. N was in that box for a
• 4:38:29
  Speaker 13: lot longer time.
• 4:38:30
  Speaker 5: But really it feels like a long time, but he.
• 4:38:33
  Speaker 6: Was in it for weeks to chapters.
• 4:38:35
  Speaker 5: It felt like he was in it for like a
• 4:38:36
  Speaker 5: quarter of the book, but he's only in it for
• 4:38:38
  Speaker 5: like two chapters.
• 4:38:39
  Speaker 17: It's probably about ten days. It's a really long.
• 4:38:46
  Speaker 5: Time, that is it is.
• 4:38:47
  Speaker 3: It's can't if it's ten thirteen, sixteen, it's a long time.
• 4:38:52
  Speaker 5: And then they're beating him every you know, who's the
• 4:38:55
  Speaker 5: who's the one?
• 4:38:57
  Speaker 6: Is?
• 4:38:57
  Speaker 4: Said Galina that Herrin and Arian yea.
• 4:39:03
  Speaker 12: Even Arian stops doing it after like the second night,
• 4:39:07
  Speaker 12: the second time, because she's like, he killed my warders.
• 4:39:10
  Speaker 12: But I'm not an evil piece of ship, and this
• 4:39:12
  Speaker 12: has reached the point where it's not right anymore.
• 4:39:15
  Speaker 17: So I'm going to just go off and cry alone.
• 4:39:17
  Speaker 3: So yeah, and that torture is meant it's meant to
• 4:39:22
  Speaker 3: soften him, it's meant to control him, it's meant to
• 4:39:24
  Speaker 3: break him, and it does all those things, and yet.
• 4:39:27
  Speaker 2: The ideal are like, yeah, I mean, I guess you
• 4:39:30
  Speaker 2: can walk it off or whatever.
• 4:39:31
  Speaker 12: Yeah, they're like it was wrong that they took you,
• 4:39:34
  Speaker 12: but you know, yeah, okay, so.
• 4:39:36
  Speaker 6: I'm some dirt on it.
• 4:39:38
  Speaker 12: So I always love what rjie what RJ does with contrast,
• 4:39:41
  Speaker 12: because Galina it's the most horrible, horrible person, and so
• 4:39:46
  Speaker 12: he ends up giving her to the Rava, who is
• 4:39:49
  Speaker 12: like so scarily awful, and it's like, do you ever
• 4:39:52
  Speaker 12: feel sorry for Galina? It's like the next level of terrible,
• 4:39:59
  Speaker 12: and it's like, can't help even though she's terrible and
• 4:40:02
  Speaker 12: she does terrible things to Galina to kind of like
• 4:40:05
  Speaker 12: her because she's so.
• 4:40:06
  Speaker 2: Awful to her, it's so much she goes through.
• 4:40:09
  Speaker 12: I'm like, I shouldn't like her because I know the
• 4:40:11
  Speaker 12: stuff that she does to Glina is really awful. But
• 4:40:14
  Speaker 12: I'm just sort of like, but Galina is so terrible
• 4:40:16
  Speaker 12: that I'm just sort of like, you know, you.
• 4:40:18
  Speaker 4: Know, Arma, we're just looking at consequences. Consequences friends.
• 4:40:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of like how.
• 4:40:27
  Speaker 3: I feel about like The Kneeler You Will Be No,
• 4:40:29
  Speaker 3: because like, on the one hand, lots of criticisms with it,
• 4:40:33
  Speaker 3: but on the other hand.
• 4:40:34
  Speaker 2: Liked fucked up, Like.
• 4:40:38
  Speaker 5: Well it wasn't Oh go ahead, I was just gonna say, well,
• 4:40:42
  Speaker 5: it's time saying yeah, he's a bad guy.
• 4:40:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:40:47
  Speaker 3: It's like he shows up in the middle of the
• 4:40:49
  Speaker 3: battle and is expecting to take control of stuff, and like,
• 4:40:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, what.
• 4:40:54
  Speaker 2: Else is he gonna do? Just be like, oh, yeah,
• 4:40:56
  Speaker 2: I'm a bad guy, but.
• 4:40:57
  Speaker 13: I don't so bad ass at the todd though.
• 4:41:02
  Speaker 3: Right, we needed that show of display, that show of control,
• 4:41:05
  Speaker 3: that show of these women who are hunting you and
• 4:41:07
  Speaker 3: torturing you, they're under control for a minute.
• 4:41:11
  Speaker 12: The person that he says that to is not the
• 4:41:14
  Speaker 12: Tower Isidie. He says it to the Saladar Isidi, who
• 4:41:17
  Speaker 12: are like, wait a minute, where your allies? And he's cross.
• 4:41:21
  Speaker 12: They're like, you're not my friend. I told you six
• 4:41:25
  Speaker 12: could come, and here is nine. You were with those people.
• 4:41:29
  Speaker 12: You know, you can swear fealty or you can fuck
• 4:41:31
  Speaker 12: off and be a prisoner, and they're basically put in
• 4:41:34
  Speaker 12: this position where and yeah, and then Time just as
• 4:41:37
  Speaker 12: his extra gross creep factor. But it's like, yeah, yeah,
• 4:41:43
  Speaker 12: so it's always made me very uncomfortable. But at the
• 4:41:46
  Speaker 12: same time, it's like, that's not something that rand would
• 4:41:48
  Speaker 12: ever say. And it's not like he's in a real
• 4:41:52
  Speaker 12: good place mentally or I think even like keeping track
• 4:41:54
  Speaker 12: of everything that's going on. He's probably super distracted. So
• 4:41:58
  Speaker 12: it just gives Time a chance to menace a bit.
• 4:42:02
  Speaker 8: And I mean, yeah, I mean it kind.
• 4:42:07
  Speaker 16: Of falls under the like no rules in love or war, right,
• 4:42:09
  Speaker 16: like this is war where there are no rules, And
• 4:42:14
  Speaker 16: Tam has a point and I know you say that
• 4:42:17
  Speaker 16: Wren would never say that, but I can also see
• 4:42:19
  Speaker 16: a side of Wren where he will he would be
• 4:42:21
  Speaker 16: the one who says that he already has a huge
• 4:42:23
  Speaker 16: distrust advice said I, And this was like the straw
• 4:42:26
  Speaker 16: that broke the Campbell's back.
• 4:42:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you're either just to show a show of
• 4:42:31
  Speaker 4: power from the Black Tower.
• 4:42:32
  Speaker 6: I think is something that was really important for them
• 4:42:36
  Speaker 6: to make at that point.
• 4:42:38
  Speaker 4: And you know, Tyame at this point is like his
• 4:42:41
  Speaker 4: lieutenant basically, and you know, so it makes sense for
• 4:42:45
  Speaker 4: him to do it as a sort of you know,
• 4:42:47
  Speaker 4: speaking on his behalf. Somebody in the chat Charlynne said
• 4:42:51
  Speaker 4: the Neil or you will be Nelt thing, and a
• 4:42:53
  Speaker 4: few other things in the series remind me reminds me
• 4:42:55
  Speaker 4: of freer discussion of people who are oppressed responding by
• 4:42:59
  Speaker 4: replicating the system with themselves as the oppressor, rather than
• 4:43:03
  Speaker 4: making a new system in which no one is oppressed.
• 4:43:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, I agree with give of John Lennon's brain exploding,
• 4:43:12
  Speaker 3: that is yes, that is me right now.
• 4:43:16
  Speaker 5: I think that was just Tayim's evilness overcoming him at
• 4:43:20
  Speaker 5: that point. He was feeling such a surge of power.
• 4:43:23
  Speaker 5: He was just like, yeah, he was feeling it, and
• 4:43:25
  Speaker 5: he was like, Neil, through law dragon or you will
• 4:43:28
  Speaker 5: be knelt, and he was like hoping that he would
• 4:43:31
  Speaker 5: have to make them be nelt.
• 4:43:34
  Speaker 13: At that point, I please talk around, Please test me.
• 4:43:38
  Speaker 5: Just go ahead and test me, because.
• 4:43:41
  Speaker 12: I think that he thought that they wouldn't do it,
• 4:43:45
  Speaker 12: because you know of his understanding if if at that
• 4:43:48
  Speaker 12: point he was still time and not ty Andrud, he
• 4:43:52
  Speaker 12: thought that they would not do it, and so he
• 4:43:56
  Speaker 12: was expecting to be able to engage and some force
• 4:43:59
  Speaker 12: her and have these Isidi prisoners. And so the fact
• 4:44:03
  Speaker 12: that TeV Ira worked on them, because it's describing them
• 4:44:06
  Speaker 12: kneeling and just with utter expressions of disbelief on their
• 4:44:09
  Speaker 12: face as they're swearing fealty and him being like, oh well,
• 4:44:13
  Speaker 12: I didn't expect that to work.
• 4:44:15
  Speaker 5: You know, just like yeah, you know, what is that?
• 4:44:19
  Speaker 6: Is that?
• 4:44:19
  Speaker 5: Maybe a sign? Is that? Like the point with Tayim
• 4:44:22
  Speaker 5: like thinks is tell him doubt that rans the dragon
• 4:44:24
  Speaker 5: until that point and thinks like, oh wow, you know
• 4:44:27
  Speaker 5: it was this tevere and in his in his presence
• 4:44:30
  Speaker 5: that he's like, shit, I wasn't expecting that, but maybe
• 4:44:33
  Speaker 5: this guy really is the dragon We're born.
• 4:44:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean he didn't considered that. Yeah,
• 4:44:38
  Speaker 2: I don't think it.
• 4:44:40
  Speaker 13: And then you're right.
• 4:44:40
  Speaker 5: They do treat them, the two separate groups of Isidis
• 4:44:43
  Speaker 5: the same, right, they keep them prisoner or you know,
• 4:44:46
  Speaker 5: contained at the same place. And there and the Salad
• 4:44:49
  Speaker 5: isid I always trying to separate themselves from the Uh
• 4:44:53
  Speaker 5: from the Tower isid I at that point.
• 4:44:56
  Speaker 13: But Rand's just like, ah, you're all Isidie to me.
• 4:44:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and then he's honestly, I don't blame him.
• 4:45:02
  Speaker 12: I don't blame either. The isid I exceptionalism, their utter
• 4:45:07
  Speaker 12: sense of arrogance and exceptionalism is their downfall in so
• 4:45:13
  Speaker 12: many ways. And it's just kind of like they seem
• 4:45:17
  Speaker 12: to have to, like, you know, fall off their ladder
• 4:45:19
  Speaker 12: and hit every rung on the way down for them
• 4:45:21
  Speaker 12: to be able to kind of like get it finally
• 4:45:25
  Speaker 12: and realize you're not nearly as cool as everybody you
• 4:45:28
  Speaker 12: know in your little group told you that you were.
• 4:45:31
  Speaker 12: And I know that's hard to get your head around,
• 4:45:33
  Speaker 12: but you know.
• 4:45:34
  Speaker 16: I mean, do they ever really get it though? Like
• 4:45:36
  Speaker 16: I even think back to the tower being attacked, right
• 4:45:39
  Speaker 16: and Wane throwing fireballs from the rooftop, which is like that,
• 4:45:42
  Speaker 16: you know, pinnacle of coolness. But even at that point,
• 4:45:46
  Speaker 16: like they don't they don't get it, like they don't
• 4:45:50
  Speaker 16: the Green Agia, I can't form battle units, like nobody
• 4:45:53
  Speaker 16: has a plan for defending the tower. They're playing at
• 4:45:56
  Speaker 16: being isid I like in my mind, even in the
• 4:45:59
  Speaker 16: last battle, they're barely functional on the field of battle,
• 4:46:03
  Speaker 16: like they just don't have the experience. Yeah they get
• 4:46:06
  Speaker 16: taken apart by the by the Sharans, Like.
• 4:46:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, I seriously don't understand why the Green Ajo
• 4:46:18
  Speaker 4: was not continually sending groups of sisters to the boy.
• 4:46:22
  Speaker 6: Right or how to Actually I don't know fight something.
• 4:46:27
  Speaker 16: The only thing that makes sense to me is like
• 4:46:28
  Speaker 16: black Aja making the tower ineffectual. Like if you wanted
• 4:46:31
  Speaker 16: to any reasonable person would look at the white Tower
• 4:46:34
  Speaker 16: and be like, okay, we should have the Yellow Aja
• 4:46:37
  Speaker 16: out in every town and village.
• 4:46:39
  Speaker 8: You like, is set up hospitals.
• 4:46:41
  Speaker 16: What better way to recruit new I said, I is
• 4:46:43
  Speaker 16: setting up hospitals there at all the cities and like
• 4:46:45
  Speaker 16: towns and villages have the Green Naja, you get hired.
• 4:46:49
  Speaker 16: It's kind of like joining the RCNP. It's like as
• 4:46:51
  Speaker 16: soon as you join the RCNP in Canada. It's like
• 4:46:53
  Speaker 16: you go north where you go to another town or
• 4:46:55
  Speaker 16: a village or like whatever, and you serve two to
• 4:46:58
  Speaker 16: five years as a cop in a small town because
• 4:47:01
  Speaker 16: no one else is going to go there. So it's
• 4:47:03
  Speaker 16: like Green AJA should literally go to the Borderlinds for
• 4:47:06
  Speaker 16: your ten year stint fighting off trolocks and then then
• 4:47:09
  Speaker 16: you can come back to the tower. And it's like,
• 4:47:11
  Speaker 16: have these every aja doing what you're supposed to do?
• 4:47:14
  Speaker 16: And the only way to explain the way why they
• 4:47:16
  Speaker 16: suck so bad is it's got to be Black AJA influenced,
• 4:47:19
  Speaker 16: because it's like thirty percent of their numbers are bad guys.
• 4:47:22
  Speaker 5: I feel like a lot of the Green ajah or
• 4:47:24
  Speaker 5: at least a good portion of them are borderlanders too.
• 4:47:26
  Speaker 16: It seems absolutely like why wouldn't you go home and
• 4:47:30
  Speaker 16: serve and defend in the borderlands for five years and
• 4:47:33
  Speaker 16: then recruit people.
• 4:47:35
  Speaker 17: Brown should set up schools and.
• 4:47:37
  Speaker 16: Brown should be setting up schools all over the place,
• 4:47:39
  Speaker 16: Like are you getting me?
• 4:47:41
  Speaker 12: Here's a question that I was wondering because depending on
• 4:47:44
  Speaker 12: like power and general skill, it takes isid ee longer.
• 4:47:49
  Speaker 17: To become full ice ad eye. So some of them, you.
• 4:47:53
  Speaker 12: Know, can become Isidi really fast, Like Moraine became an
• 4:47:56
  Speaker 12: ice of eye at the age of twenty two. Some
• 4:47:58
  Speaker 12: of them aren't. Don't become isid I until they're like
• 4:48:01
  Speaker 12: almost forty or whatever. Do you think that depending on
• 4:48:06
  Speaker 12: the age at which you become is said I that
• 4:48:10
  Speaker 12: influence is the Adja that you choose. Do you if
• 4:48:13
  Speaker 12: you have more wisdom than the older and the wiser
• 4:48:16
  Speaker 12: that you are and you're studying and everything, do you
• 4:48:20
  Speaker 12: you know, is it maybe like younger more impulsive people
• 4:48:23
  Speaker 12: want to become greens or blue?
• 4:48:25
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 4:48:25
  Speaker 8: Ye, ask me what I got, what I took in
• 4:48:29
  Speaker 8: university and what I chose that dire.
• 4:48:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, perfect, But what I was going to now as
• 4:48:35
  Speaker 5: a thirty year old, I think, Yeah, your mind changes
• 4:48:39
  Speaker 5: over that time.
• 4:48:40
  Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean that's my whole deal is like,
• 4:48:43
  Speaker 16: if we want to get tangenty, if again was born
• 4:48:47
  Speaker 16: in any other timeline, she would be a red Aja.
• 4:48:49
  Speaker 16: In my brain, she would be the red Aja who
• 4:48:53
  Speaker 16: brought the Reds back to what they were supposed to be.
• 4:48:56
  Speaker 16: I mean, looking at her character development from the get go,
• 4:48:59
  Speaker 16: she was always in her own brain. Someone who is
• 4:49:02
  Speaker 16: like County trust Rand. Can we like what should we
• 4:49:05
  Speaker 16: be doing. Let me look who she picked as as
• 4:49:07
  Speaker 16: her keeper. It's like if you if you had, like
• 4:49:12
  Speaker 16: in a regular time frame, had a Gueen brought up
• 4:49:15
  Speaker 16: in like a relatively stable tower, she would get sucked
• 4:49:19
  Speaker 16: into the reds, I think, and she would be the
• 4:49:21
  Speaker 16: one who like corrected the course for what they were.
• 4:49:26
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think her choice for the keeper, though,
• 4:49:28
  Speaker 5: I think was more of a political move than anything, and.
• 4:49:32
  Speaker 8: She also really respected her.
• 4:49:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no she did. Yeah, I agree, But I think
• 4:49:37
  Speaker 5: it was also Eggwayne was thinking of it politically as well.
• 4:49:42
  Speaker 13: I'm sure if.
• 4:49:42
  Speaker 5: There were you know, she had a choice between a
• 4:49:44
  Speaker 5: couple of different people, she was like, Sylviana's good and
• 4:49:47
  Speaker 5: she's read. A jah, I'm gonna pick her because she's read,
• 4:49:50
  Speaker 5: and that's going to help unite the tower.
• 4:49:53
  Speaker 17: Well, you got to think too.
• 4:49:54
  Speaker 12: It's like a lot of times when you're young, you
• 4:49:57
  Speaker 12: make choices for yourself based on what you think you
• 4:49:59
  Speaker 12: should and then when you get older you accept.
• 4:50:02
  Speaker 8: What you are.
• 4:50:03
  Speaker 12: So it's like, I'm sure if I were a young person,
• 4:50:06
  Speaker 12: I would be like, oh, I should be green, because
• 4:50:08
  Speaker 12: you know, I want to be cool and powerful battle
• 4:50:11
  Speaker 12: and everything. And now I'm you know, forty three, and
• 4:50:13
  Speaker 12: I'm like, I'm a white, I'm lazy.
• 4:50:15
  Speaker 6: I want to be in the ADJA that.
• 4:50:16
  Speaker 12: Requires the least amount of effort. I want to sit
• 4:50:19
  Speaker 12: around and think about shit, and you know.
• 4:50:21
  Speaker 8: I like reading.
• 4:50:22
  Speaker 16: I want to be I want to spend my day
• 4:50:23
  Speaker 16: in the library.
• 4:50:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when I was, when I was in my twenties,
• 4:50:27
  Speaker 4: I absolutely would have been like a brown because you know,
• 4:50:31
  Speaker 4: I would feel like that would be the place that
• 4:50:33
  Speaker 4: I would need to be. I'm almost forty two, I
• 4:50:36
  Speaker 4: have no fucks left to give, and I just want
• 4:50:37
  Speaker 4: to blow everything up.
• 4:50:41
  Speaker 6: Green AJA for me.
• 4:50:43
  Speaker 16: Well, I mean, even the concept of ajas is like
• 4:50:45
  Speaker 16: it's a terrible idea because again, people change over the
• 4:50:48
  Speaker 16: course of life.
• 4:50:48
  Speaker 2: What if I choose can I switch? Yeah, Like we
• 4:50:51
  Speaker 2: have that weird thing with Swan and.
• 4:50:52
  Speaker 16: Leanna or Leanna or yeah Orleana, but like they get
• 4:51:00
  Speaker 16: to like re choose their AJA after they get different. Yeah, yeah,
• 4:51:08
  Speaker 16: that's but like that's it's such a crazy idea. It's
• 4:51:11
  Speaker 16: it's kind of like lumping people into this category that
• 4:51:14
  Speaker 16: doesn't necessarily jive it makes sense.
• 4:51:17
  Speaker 3: Like the origin of ajas temporary affiliations, so.
• 4:51:22
  Speaker 16: Which again the whole way, Okay, Yeah, in like real life,
• 4:51:27
  Speaker 16: we've got like the seventy year olds who spent like
• 4:51:29
  Speaker 16: fifty five years in one industry. But like now, like
• 4:51:32
  Speaker 16: I've I've might personally have had so many different careers
• 4:51:35
  Speaker 16: in my life. But that's the only point of like old.
• 4:51:39
  Speaker 6: Versus completely unrelated jobs.
• 4:51:41
  Speaker 4: At my current company, I've been there seven years and
• 4:51:43
  Speaker 4: I've done like forty Yeah.
• 4:51:45
  Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean that's what I'm saying, Like, your your
• 4:51:47
  Speaker 16: career can change, So why couldn't you switch ajas? Why
• 4:51:50
  Speaker 16: don't you have all the hot shots in the green
• 4:51:52
  Speaker 16: And then they get a little bit older and like,
• 4:51:54
  Speaker 16: actually I want to re evaluate I have.
• 4:51:55
  Speaker 6: Already to retire.
• 4:51:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, totally.
• 4:51:59
  Speaker 3: Like maybe you're like a yellow and you're out there
• 4:52:01
  Speaker 3: doing a bunch of clinical research and then you're like,
• 4:52:03
  Speaker 3: actually want to come home and work on data models.
• 4:52:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go be a brown.
• 4:52:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 4:52:07
  Speaker 12: It feels like it's not letting people change ajas is
• 4:52:12
  Speaker 12: foolish and it's just another way that the tower becomes
• 4:52:15
  Speaker 12: too stiff and stagnant.
• 4:52:19
  Speaker 2: Age legends thing either, right.
• 4:52:21
  Speaker 13: Correct, there were, but there was different.
• 4:52:24
  Speaker 5: It was very different set. There were more like clicks
• 4:52:27
  Speaker 5: and groups like kind of almost like you know, like, Okay, yeah,
• 4:52:31
  Speaker 5: this group's going to do this thing for a bit,
• 4:52:34
  Speaker 5: and then you know it wasn't like a life dedicated Yeah.
• 4:52:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I talked about this on Dusty Wheel recently.
• 4:52:41
  Speaker 3: Actually we did an is and idep dive and yeah,
• 4:52:44
  Speaker 3: there was even.
• 4:52:44
  Speaker 16: Like power structure being based on how strong you are
• 4:52:47
  Speaker 16: is a terrible system.
• 4:52:49
  Speaker 5: None of the other Chat, none of the other channel
• 4:52:53
  Speaker 5: groups have ajas or any kind of like this is
• 4:52:56
  Speaker 5: your role and this is what you're going to do
• 4:52:58
  Speaker 5: for the rest of your life. Yeah, of them do.
• 4:53:00
  Speaker 5: It's only the Ice that I yeah.
• 4:53:03
  Speaker 16: Because Black Aja and Issy and stuff absolutely.
• 4:53:10
  Speaker 4: Ever given that much thought to the impact that the
• 4:53:13
  Speaker 4: Black Aja actually had on the structure of the White Tower.
• 4:53:18
  Speaker 6: But every time Brett brings it up, I'm like.
• 4:53:23
  Speaker 8: I mean, what they should.
• 4:53:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I knew the Black Osha was there, and it
• 4:53:30
  Speaker 4: literally never occurred to me that the reason it's such
• 4:53:32
  Speaker 4: a fucking chit show in there is that because there.
• 4:53:34
  Speaker 8: They wanted to be a show.
• 4:53:36
  Speaker 16: Why would you want a strong cohes like you wouldn't
• 4:53:39
  Speaker 16: if especially like I get it, I get a sham
• 4:53:42
  Speaker 16: knows what he's doing, Like he's a smart guy. He's
• 4:53:44
  Speaker 16: not stupid.
• 4:53:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some people, but we're not that bad quite of order.
• 4:53:50
  Speaker 4: How long do we know how long the Black Osha
• 4:53:53
  Speaker 4: has been active?
• 4:53:56
  Speaker 5: Well, they weren't organized until Yeah, they weren't organized wars.
• 4:54:01
  Speaker 13: Yeah, until the Trollic Wars.
• 4:54:03
  Speaker 5: That's when a Schamel organized all of like the evil
• 4:54:06
  Speaker 5: Is said, I into like the Black Aja.
• 4:54:09
  Speaker 2: But that's like still two thousand years to do.
• 4:54:11
  Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean they there were bad isid died
• 4:54:14
  Speaker 5: before that, but they weren't very organized or like didn't
• 4:54:17
  Speaker 5: have like an official kind of organize. Yeah.
• 4:54:19
  Speaker 3: I would bet that he found whoever the Black Aja
• 4:54:22
  Speaker 3: was and made them formal.
• 4:54:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think that he.
• 4:54:25
  Speaker 13: Yes exactly organized everything.
• 4:54:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was just.
• 4:54:31
  Speaker 6: Kind of wondering, like, at what point did they show up?
• 4:54:35
  Speaker 5: I think it was a now a thousand years. I
• 4:54:37
  Speaker 5: think it wasn't even the Trollic Wars. It might have been.
• 4:54:40
  Speaker 5: I think it was after the Trollic Wars to be
• 4:54:42
  Speaker 5: honest with you, because.
• 4:54:43
  Speaker 4: Then you think, Okay, how long did it take everything
• 4:54:47
  Speaker 4: to break down? Assuming that they were, you know, a
• 4:54:51
  Speaker 4: sort of healthy organization when the Black Aja first got there,
• 4:54:56
  Speaker 4: Like realistically, how long do we think that it would
• 4:54:59
  Speaker 4: take for them to subvert everything to the point that
• 4:55:03
  Speaker 4: we're at now. You know, do we feel like that's
• 4:55:05
  Speaker 4: something that would happen quickly or would it be like
• 4:55:09
  Speaker 4: I feel like shit like that can happen really fast.
• 4:55:12
  Speaker 2: I mean it can.
• 4:55:13
  Speaker 16: And it's just being like it's the whole like all
• 4:55:15
  Speaker 16: they have to do is be ineffectual. They don't have
• 4:55:18
  Speaker 16: to do anything like nefarious. They just have to not
• 4:55:22
  Speaker 16: be competent at what they're doing. They have to be
• 4:55:24
  Speaker 16: in it.
• 4:55:25
  Speaker 6: It's really more of like a long con.
• 4:55:27
  Speaker 16: It's a long time and that's the whole thing. And
• 4:55:29
  Speaker 16: I think there was like a couple of scenes where
• 4:55:31
  Speaker 16: we got like Ishammel talking to some of his like
• 4:55:34
  Speaker 16: peons in the dream or whatever, and he was like, yeah,
• 4:55:37
  Speaker 16: if we don't figure it out in this life, we'll
• 4:55:39
  Speaker 16: figure it out in the next. And they're thinking, like, wait,
• 4:55:42
  Speaker 16: what I thought I was going to be. I thought
• 4:55:44
  Speaker 16: this was going to be like yeah, yeah, it's kind
• 4:55:48
  Speaker 16: of like I thought this was like a yeah, it's
• 4:55:50
  Speaker 16: like issues thinking long game and everyone is just being
• 4:55:54
  Speaker 16: used as an object on the board.
• 4:55:55
  Speaker 12: So so we go, are we finishing up getting on
• 4:56:00
  Speaker 12: four or three hours?
• 4:56:04
  Speaker 2: Three hours?
• 4:56:05
  Speaker 3: We've gotten through everything I had on my list. We
• 4:56:10
  Speaker 3: could maybe just talk a bit about how each of
• 4:56:12
  Speaker 3: your Guys' podcast is sort of anticipating this.
• 4:56:16
  Speaker 2: Book and try to wrap up in the next like
• 4:56:19
  Speaker 2: seven hours.
• 4:56:20
  Speaker 5: Or so, each an hour to talk about how you're
• 4:56:25
  Speaker 5: going to address it.
• 4:56:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, if that's irrelevant question.
• 4:56:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know where I don't even know where all
• 4:56:33
  Speaker 3: of your guys podcasts is all start.
• 4:56:35
  Speaker 16: So we're in the middle of book four and once
• 4:56:38
  Speaker 16: we get to book six, we're going to address it
• 4:56:40
  Speaker 16: with a lot of alcohol.
• 4:56:43
  Speaker 6: Solid tactic is yeah.
• 4:56:45
  Speaker 5: That's it.
• 4:56:46
  Speaker 16: Yeah, Well, at that point the kids will be like
• 4:56:49
  Speaker 16: a little bit older, it'll be it'll be good.
• 4:56:51
  Speaker 2: We'll have fun with it.
• 4:56:53
  Speaker 12: Well, I'm excited because i'm reading or reading listening to
• 4:56:56
  Speaker 12: your latest episode and you guys are so fun. Like
• 4:57:01
  Speaker 12: Danny's getting so excited and it's just great. I think
• 4:57:03
  Speaker 12: she's gonna have a great time.
• 4:57:06
  Speaker 16: Yeah, we're really hitting the stride with The Shadow Rising.
• 4:57:08
  Speaker 16: Like it's such a good book too.
• 4:57:10
  Speaker 5: It is, although the ending is Shadow Rising isn't one
• 4:57:15
  Speaker 5: of the greatest endings. But it's a good book though.
• 4:57:17
  Speaker 5: All Right, it's like a it's like a book that's
• 4:57:19
  Speaker 5: kind of like it's up there and it just stays
• 4:57:22
  Speaker 5: up there.
• 4:57:22
  Speaker 13: It's like it doesn't have like peaks and valleys so much.
• 4:57:26
  Speaker 16: Gets so much information in Shadow Rising, the world opens
• 4:57:29
  Speaker 16: up so much. You get like the the I Eel stuff,
• 4:57:32
  Speaker 16: you get Rand's parents stuff, like it's there's so much
• 4:57:35
  Speaker 16: detail and you just open up an entire world of.
• 4:57:38
  Speaker 5: Wheel It's got. Yeah, the best end, the best ending
• 4:57:42
  Speaker 5: out of all is the is the two Rivers parents ending.
• 4:57:46
  Speaker 5: The Golden Eyes is probably the best part. And then
• 4:57:49
  Speaker 5: I'd say the next best part is the Ninive that's in.
• 4:57:53
  Speaker 8: Battle right, that's so good.
• 4:57:55
  Speaker 5: And the Red one is like the last yeah one
• 4:58:00
  Speaker 5: is like okay, yeah, that's like the very end. It
• 4:58:02
  Speaker 5: was like, yeah, that as good as the other ones.
• 4:58:05
  Speaker 16: Like the Hue comes with the dawn when he's like
• 4:58:07
  Speaker 16: I am the I'm the car car, it's like just
• 4:58:10
  Speaker 16: crickets in the background.
• 4:58:13
  Speaker 13: Yeah, the other two endings so much better.
• 4:58:15
  Speaker 5: But yeah, the Bang.
• 4:58:18
  Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, it's a lots of an information dump.
• 4:58:24
  Speaker 8: It's more of just a.
• 4:58:29
  Speaker 2: Sausage being made.
• 4:58:32
  Speaker 5: It's like Michael Bay movie.
• 4:58:34
  Speaker 6: At the end, it's gonna be thanks for me.
• 4:58:39
  Speaker 5: I don't even know. I haven't even thought this far
• 4:58:41
  Speaker 5: ahead into this, you know, into this late in the
• 4:58:44
  Speaker 5: series because I'm again I'm thinking of it from the
• 4:58:46
  Speaker 5: book from the show perspectives, but who the hell knows.
• 4:58:49
  Speaker 5: I don't even know what season this is going to be.
• 4:58:51
  Speaker 5: This could be season four for all I know. And
• 4:58:53
  Speaker 5: how are they gonna are.
• 4:58:57
  Speaker 2: Three?
• 4:58:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he knows. I don't even want to think. I
• 4:59:00
  Speaker 5: can't even think about it until season one comes out
• 4:59:04
  Speaker 5: to kind of give us a baseline of like where
• 4:59:07
  Speaker 5: the pacing, and probably not even season one, because I
• 4:59:09
  Speaker 5: think season one is going to be mostly the Eye
• 4:59:12
  Speaker 5: of the World with maybe a teeny bit of the
• 4:59:13
  Speaker 5: Great Hunt. I think when you get into season two,
• 4:59:16
  Speaker 5: things are going to start changing. So I don't even
• 4:59:19
  Speaker 5: want to try to make judgments as to what this
• 4:59:22
  Speaker 5: book is going to look like in the show until
• 4:59:24
  Speaker 5: I have at least two seasons of the show under
• 4:59:26
  Speaker 5: my belt.
• 4:59:27
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's just it's the book with like one
• 4:59:30
  Speaker 3: of the greatest battles of like all tell you that,
• 4:59:34
  Speaker 3: so like they have to keep do you my as well?
• 4:59:37
  Speaker 2: Where do you put it?
• 4:59:38
  Speaker 3: Is kind of going to be what you're what you
• 4:59:40
  Speaker 3: get to struggle with where.
• 4:59:41
  Speaker 16: They decide, and it's going to be so dark that
• 4:59:45
  Speaker 16: no one's going to be able to see the fight
• 4:59:47
  Speaker 16: even happen.
• 4:59:47
  Speaker 5: It's going to get it's going to be raining, it's
• 4:59:52
  Speaker 5: gonna be n't see why did you just It's gonna
• 4:59:56
  Speaker 5: be a lot of rain, very dark.
• 4:59:58
  Speaker 12: We're going to be sitting out at the for Redheaded extras.
• 5:00:02
  Speaker 16: Yeah, frantically like turning off lights and shutting blinds, like
• 5:00:07
  Speaker 16: I can't see the TV.
• 5:00:12
  Speaker 4: I think for me, you know, with the show, I
• 5:00:16
  Speaker 4: don't know, because I don't know what it's gonna be.
• 5:00:21
  Speaker 4: I can't say, but I know when I get to
• 5:00:22
  Speaker 4: the books. With this one, I feel like there's probably
• 5:00:28
  Speaker 4: gonna be a lot more stopping and like deep diving
• 5:00:32
  Speaker 4: instead of just sort of like old Lady crafts and
• 5:00:35
  Speaker 4: making comments because I mean, a lot of shit happens
• 5:00:43
  Speaker 4: that like requires discussion, you know. So yeah, I'm I'm
• 5:00:49
  Speaker 4: I assume there's gonna be a lot of deep dives,
• 5:00:52
  Speaker 4: and the videos will probably end up being a lot
• 5:00:53
  Speaker 4: longer than the earlier ones.
• 5:00:56
  Speaker 6: So that's that's what I'm thinking.
• 5:01:01
  Speaker 12: Well, I'll probably do a good bit of exploration of
• 5:01:06
  Speaker 12: Rand's mental health issues, probably a couple of different episodes
• 5:01:11
  Speaker 12: looking at different sides of that.
• 5:01:14
  Speaker 2: I'll do at least.
• 5:01:15
  Speaker 12: One exploring for sake and fuckery, because they do a
• 5:01:18
  Speaker 12: whole bunch of a lot of that stuff going on there,
• 5:01:22
  Speaker 12: so it's important to kind of break it down and
• 5:01:24
  Speaker 12: see who's doing what and where. Definitely do an episode
• 5:01:29
  Speaker 12: about Alta kind of destroying Rand's innocence because that's heartbreaking,
• 5:01:33
  Speaker 12: an episode about Igwayne, you know, rising to power, and
• 5:01:37
  Speaker 12: probably an episode before that breaking down like Saladar's power
• 5:01:41
  Speaker 12: structure and kind of you know, prepping the board for
• 5:01:45
  Speaker 12: Igwayne coming in and who knows.
• 5:01:48
  Speaker 17: There's a lot of alliances.
• 5:01:49
  Speaker 12: Like I've done a lot of episodes looking into just
• 5:01:53
  Speaker 12: relationships with like two people, you know, like random Matt
• 5:01:56
  Speaker 12: or random Moraine or I'm going to do an episode
• 5:01:58
  Speaker 12: of Parent and Moraine stuff stuff like that. But alliance
• 5:02:02
  Speaker 12: is at this point, like there's you know ninety Elaine,
• 5:02:07
  Speaker 12: Leon and Swan, so it might be really interesting to
• 5:02:09
  Speaker 12: explore that alliance. There's so much material here that I
• 5:02:13
  Speaker 12: think that when I get to it, and then you know,
• 5:02:17
  Speaker 12: I'll have to spend more time really kind of breaking
• 5:02:19
  Speaker 12: it down and thinking about it and then with do
• 5:02:21
  Speaker 12: my as well. I'll probably wait to do that until
• 5:02:24
  Speaker 12: I get into book seven, so I can look at
• 5:02:27
  Speaker 12: some of the scenes where Rand's experiencing trauma. And plus
• 5:02:31
  Speaker 12: you know, book seven starts right after the battle, so
• 5:02:33
  Speaker 12: I can kind of go back and forth. So but
• 5:02:38
  Speaker 12: there's tons of material. There's just more and more material
• 5:02:40
  Speaker 12: as the books go on, So I'm excited.
• 5:02:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, book seven picks up like in the Battle still right.
• 5:02:48
  Speaker 12: From Yeah, yeah, different POV. So that'll be that'll be
• 5:02:55
  Speaker 12: a lot of fun to do.
• 5:02:58
  Speaker 21: Yeah, we forgot to books, y'all, which totally forgot, like
• 5:03:03
  Speaker 21: the very beginning and the very end of the book
• 5:03:04
  Speaker 21: with the Force with the Forsaken, right with the Demon
• 5:03:08
  Speaker 21: Dread travels to.
• 5:03:11
  Speaker 8: And then go back, doesn't Land.
• 5:03:16
  Speaker 17: Yeah, he shows up at the end, show up, shows up.
• 5:03:19
  Speaker 16: This is where Land comes back, makes it or whatever?
• 5:03:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.
• 5:03:26
  Speaker 16: This is three hours, so like we're at it.
• 5:03:29
  Speaker 4: End.
• 5:03:29
  Speaker 5: Did I do good right.
• 5:03:33
  Speaker 13: Well or something like that.
• 5:03:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just I think Seth and I decided that
• 5:03:38
  Speaker 3: means it has to be because he brought the Black Tower.
• 5:03:41
  Speaker 3: He's like, why time like new to show up and
• 5:03:45
  Speaker 3: that must be like that's the only thing he could
• 5:03:47
  Speaker 3: have done to like make the Grand Lord happy with
• 5:03:48
  Speaker 3: him because it's he says, yeah, I guess he kind
• 5:03:52
  Speaker 3: of opens and closes the book and it's like, what
• 5:03:54
  Speaker 3: were you doing the whole time?
• 5:03:55
  Speaker 12: Yeah? And then there's the scene between Samuel and Grendel
• 5:03:59
  Speaker 12: where sam I like, where the hell is demand read?
• 5:04:02
  Speaker 12: And she's having this conversation about Shara and showing off
• 5:04:06
  Speaker 12: her two people and he's like, what's this bullshit she's
• 5:04:10
  Speaker 12: dribbling about?
• 5:04:11
  Speaker 17: And the whole time she's giving him the information.
• 5:04:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 5:04:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, if you guys are anything else you want
• 5:04:22
  Speaker 3: to say about the books.
• 5:04:23
  Speaker 2: Per se, we do tonight.
• 5:04:26
  Speaker 4: It's bedtime, so we probably shouldn't say yea.
• 5:04:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys all so much for showing up. This
• 5:04:35
  Speaker 2: was really fun. Long windows so much for having us.
• 5:04:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 5:04:39
  Speaker 3: I had no idea what we were going to get into,
• 5:04:41
  Speaker 3: how this is going to go. I'm still getting really
• 5:04:43
  Speaker 3: used to running meetings or whatever. So you guys are
• 5:04:46
  Speaker 3: all great sports, you were great. Thanks And I mean,
• 5:04:50
  Speaker 3: what a freaking community, like all of us getting together,
• 5:04:55
  Speaker 3: Like how many of us put parodies into that song
• 5:04:58
  Speaker 3: contest that just.
• 5:04:58
  Speaker 8: Blew all over our minds?
• 5:05:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's more than half of us put
• 5:05:03
  Speaker 3: in parodies.
• 5:05:04
  Speaker 2: There's so many podcasts. There's so many communities.
• 5:05:08
  Speaker 3: That we talked like how many servers am I in
• 5:05:10
  Speaker 3: that don't have a podcast but have a robust community
• 5:05:12
  Speaker 3: associated with them that's associated.
• 5:05:14
  Speaker 2: With all the podcasts, Like everyone here's so great.
• 5:05:18
  Speaker 16: I mean, especially podcasts that interact with each other. Like
• 5:05:20
  Speaker 16: there's so many phantoms that have podcasts, but it's like,
• 5:05:23
  Speaker 16: what's the overlap? Is crazy and we all the time.
• 5:05:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even understand it.
• 5:05:28
  Speaker 5: It's awesome.
• 5:05:29
  Speaker 6: That's one thing. Like when we started The White Tower back.
• 5:05:33
  Speaker 4: In twenty eighteen, I was absolutely shocked that we were
• 5:05:38
  Speaker 4: embraced immediately.
• 5:05:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and there's no sense of competition. It's all.
• 5:05:50
  Speaker 2: Followings everywhere, okay, goodness.
• 5:06:00
  Speaker 4: There's such a sense of community. There's no sense of competition.
• 5:06:03
  Speaker 4: Everybody is like promoting everybody else's shows and content and.
• 5:06:09
  Speaker 6: It's just it's just it's such a great community to
• 5:06:14
  Speaker 6: be a creator in.
• 5:06:15
  Speaker 16: I feel like I'm competing with Joe and Seth's beard
• 5:06:18
  Speaker 16: though because I can't.
• 5:06:19
  Speaker 2: I can't.
• 5:06:22
  Speaker 6: They are both really good beards.
• 5:06:24
  Speaker 16: This is like literally months of like that, I can't.
• 5:06:27
  Speaker 5: It's just like you, It's like it's like check out
• 5:06:30
  Speaker 5: my beard and it's like he's got a little bit
• 5:06:32
  Speaker 5: of hair, and it's like.
• 5:06:33
  Speaker 2: Well, shaving sucks, like it's the worst.
• 5:06:36
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's why I envy you. You don't have
• 5:06:38
  Speaker 5: to shave us often though.
• 5:06:40
  Speaker 2: That's true, but it's also like not full or robust,
• 5:06:44
  Speaker 2: so that's a good thing.
• 5:06:47
  Speaker 3: We only can we only compete on the things that
• 5:06:49
  Speaker 3: don't matter.
• 5:06:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, the.
• 5:06:55
  Speaker 3: The only debates I've ever seen in this community where
• 5:06:57
  Speaker 3: people have actually like pulled knives and died on hills
• 5:07:00
  Speaker 3: was over like pineapple on pizza.
• 5:07:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 5:07:06
  Speaker 3: Rate us in the Apple Podcast app or support us
• 5:07:09
  Speaker 3: on Patreon.
• 5:07:13
  Speaker 2: Was like good enough.