Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / An Inside Look into Judging and Scoring at Competitions

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An Inside Look into Judging and Scoring at Competitions · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I'll touch the way that just finds it.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We arrived at the three hours of the night.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: All day and all night.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then what's the way that all for a few hours before starting all over again the next day?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So what goes on for us during the actual event?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And how does that affect you as a dance judge?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm making the impact.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to pull back the curtain and reveal the ins and outs of what it takes to be a dance competition judge.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact of Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I am here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, everybody.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is our 50th episode.
• 1:05
  unknown: Oh my god!
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, we're 50.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: We liked it.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Stretch.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're 50.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, podcast is 50.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: 50 episodes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Out of 50 episodes.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, some of our QAs from season one didn't count towards the episode total.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we're a little bit over 50, but this is our official 50th episode of Make an Impact.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Whoa.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, this is awesome.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Super excited to make this podcast a reality.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: I say this all the time, but it's just it's so much fun to do this and sit down with so many fabulous guests and different judges.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we brought in so many outside guests in this season.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's just it's been a blast and has grown so much.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's been super fun to just flex other creative muscles, uh especially this year with so much uh change happening in the industry that you know we're able to you know pivot and and be flexible and pivot turn and do a nice pivot turn, which is one of my favorite things.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Love a pivot turn.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, thank you to every single one of our fans who have been tuning in for the past over a year now that we've been doing this.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have been there from day one, thank you so much.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you have uh left reviews and ratings on Apple Podcasts, thank you so much.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't, go do that, by the way.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not already subscribed, which you probably are if you're listening, uh then hit the subscribe button on wherever you listen to podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Google Podcasts or Stitcher or wherever you love to listen.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you'll get your weekly dance competition podcast straight to you every Thursday.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: But uh this is episode 50, and we have some really great guests that we're gonna introduce to you soon.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that uh I'm really excited to talk about this.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about judging.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about the world of a dance competition judge.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna give you some insider scoop today as to how we do our job and how we determine those scores at competition and what really goes on behind the table.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: So uh can't wait to dive deep into this.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: But uh before we do, we want to uh tell you that IBA's virtual competition is a back in action.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we have a solo and group event coming to you with registration opening in just a few days on February 15th.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: And our registration will be open for an entire month.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: It closes on March 15th, but this is for our March solo and group event.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So our studios are welcome, our independent entries are welcome, uh dance parents can submit their solo lists on their own, and uh you can also submit from anywhere in the world.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: We love seeing dancers connect with us worldwide, but it's just been so awesome to see dancers from everywhere and all different styles of dance enter into our previous event.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: So come join in on the phone.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: We got some amazing sponsors, uh we have cash prizes, a top 20 overall live stream challenge, we have fantastic judging panels with really awesome critiques and you're not gonna want to miss it, don't miss it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: So check it out now at uh impactdanceadjudicators.com slash virtual competition and pre-register or register starting on the 15th.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Yay!
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we've been having a great time uh for the past a little over a year, or not really a little over a year, but for the past several months doing all our virtual events.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like Courtney said, we've had so many awesome, interesting, different styles of dance from all over the world.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably my favorite part about doing this is that we've got, you know, just such a variety of talent coming to us.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So join us next time.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And also if you haven't joined us in our new Facebook group, we would love to invite you to join us there.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast Community.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: We started it in January just as another option to connect with our listeners and our fans and dance people from around the world.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: We've been having great conversations and we are going to start doing some giveaways here soon, some contests kind of exclusively for our fans in that community.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if you haven't already, head over to Facebook, uh join us at Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast community.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and uh we all know that competition season is here.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: We are about to kick things off.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's February.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to all of my studio owners and teachers, if you're still looking for stylish trendy studio wear and spirit gear, then you should definitely check out Jake Nothing.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: But they specialize in studio wear, including leggings, jackets, sports bras, and even adorable tie-dye options.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Jake Nothing will make you stand out on stage at awards and represent your studio with custom designs.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Head on over to Jake Nothing.com to learn more and check out their full line of teen gear and apparel now.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Level Up Dance Supplies is here to provide quality products at affordable prices for dancers around the country.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: They specialize in rolling rack travel bags.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're still looking for the perfect bag to store all of your competition costumes and essentials, they have a wide variety of options to choose from.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: They also have pop-up changing room tents to help keep your dancers socially distanced at events as well as brand new Bibit buttons to safely secure your number into your dance wear at convention.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So check out all of the fabulous products Level Up has to offer you now at levelupdanceupplies.com and use our exclusive promo code Bravo5678 at checkout for ten dollars off.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yay, thank you so much to both of our sponsors for our 50th episode of Making an Impact.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: All right, listeners, it's time to meet our wonderful guests who are returning podcast guests and are also our OG IDA judges on the roster.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Since IDA was created back in 2014, both of these lovely people have been judging for us since then.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: So they obviously have tons of experience and are some of our veteran judges on the roster.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so happy to welcome them back to the podcast.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And first up, I would love to introduce a judge who you may remember from way back when season one, episode eight, boys in dance, the wonderful, the fabulous, Mr.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Colin Shay Dennison to the podcast.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome!
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited to be back.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a year plus, I think.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's been a minute.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's been a minute.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that episode, wow, that was that was a felt like a long time ago, wasn't it?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it sure was.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: That was like fall.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, August?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was pretty early.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's true, that's true.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was a long time ago.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm so happy to have you back and can't wait to talk all things judging with you.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: So please please feel free to share with the the world who may not have heard you on that episode a little bit about you, who you are, where you're based currently, and what you're working on.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I am originally from southern Missouri, born and raised here, went to college here, and then after I graduated, spent about a decade in New York, and then just over a year, year and a half ago, relocated back to Missouri, where I have been doing some teaching, some choreography, some muggle jobs as well.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: And like I mentioned, you're an OG.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think since since the beginning, since the apartment, you know, conception of IDA.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, this will be this will be I think season like eight or something of of judging-ish.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because we judged together before IDA was even a thing.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, this has been a while.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Well, thanks so much for joining us.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're super excited to have you back.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! All right, and our next guest is a returning guest as well, like I mentioned, another OG.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And her name is Miss Jessie Miller, who you may remember from one of our most popular episodes, season one, episode 24, What Makes a Successful Musical Theater Entry.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome back, Jesse.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me, guys.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yay, us too.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I know you've been you've been in the judging game for a while.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Jesse and I go way back to the comp days in Maryland.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we do Courtney.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: I remember baby Courtney on the stage, slaying it, basically.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: So much hair.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: All the hair.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: So much hair.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: I used to straighten it back then.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was interesting.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so can't wait to talk about judging with you, but please feel free to introduce yourself to the world and tell everyone a little bit about you.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I am uh based in Baltimore, Maryland, back home-ish, Courtney's home.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I am doing so many things.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: I um a mom.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: I uh I'm teaching some, teaching musical theater, and like Colin said, doing some transitioning into the nonprofit world, but also keeping the arts near and dear to my heart.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: And let's see, I'm also the co-founder of Motivated Movers, uh, which is based out of New York City.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And we teach beginner, advanced beginner dance training to singer actors.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that was my baby for a long time, and I'm so proud of the company.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sort of on a in an auxiliary role now, but um still proud of all they're doing and find ways to support them when I can.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, and I love judging and I'm so excited to get to talk about all the ins and outs today.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be great.
• 10:35
  unknown: Yay!
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a lot to talk about.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, we're we're going in, y'all.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we have two amazing guests today.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like Courtney said, these these judges have been doing this for a very long time.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: They both have extensive careers as performers and teachers themselves in myriad different avenues from, you know, teaching children, teaching adults, teaching beginners, teaching professional people.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a lot to cover.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I want to first kind of dig into is, you know, we have a lot of listeners who are dance parents, dancers, but I think specifically for sort of the uninitiated thinking about what a judge actually does during that 12 to 15 hour day at the at the venue, you know, it's it's kind of in the dark.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody really, you know, unless you're sitting there at the table, you don't really know what the judges are doing.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for somebody to just jump in and kind of describe sort of what the day looks like, just the actual day itself.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: What time do you wake up?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you go?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: How long does it take you, etc.?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I can jump in a little bit first.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you normally travel in the day before if things are going well.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: So you have time to like settle into your hotel and like, you know, get a good night's sleep because that first day is long.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, of course it depends on what the competition is, if it starts Friday night, if it starts Friday afternoon, if it starts Saturday morning.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, they all look different every every event.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, you typically get there an hour before the competition starts, you get acclimated.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: You hope you get coffee, you need to get water and some sugar.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, I guess if you're healthier than me, maybe you don't get sugar, but I definitely have to have my mints.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I mean, that's sort of you get acclimated and then you, you know, make sure.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Normally, you know, we know about the I would say the judging like rubric and the scoring a little before we get there.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not like, you know, an hour before you're learning about that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you start to get your head in the game and and then sit down and then you're just in it and immerse yourself in the world of of you know the talent for that weekend.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Colin, can you speak a little bit to what a score sheet or a scoring rubric kind of looks like and entails at just a general competition?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, from the performer side of it, it's it's your area, it's your studios, it's the competitions you've probably performed at or competed at.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you're used to the the layout of the land and coming in as outsiders, we don't know a lot of that.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're given some information.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, maybe you get it ahead of time, maybe it's 15 minutes before the competition starts.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking at a sheet.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's oftentimes just a breakdown of the dancers throughout the day, what time, what group, what level.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we, depending on the software, usually have a hard copy and then a digital version.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of just get a crash course in in how the the event's gonna go.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the more you judge, the more you're able to kind of absorb it really quickly.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's more just like um a layout of this is the schedule for the day, is on paper, and then the system of judging usually lies more within the computer.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're we're not given a lot of information, which is good because then we're able to judge what's in front of us, but we more or less just have a schedule.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's really important to mention, like you said, that every competition is very different, you know, and our job as judges, we it's a it's a general overview.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: We know what we're getting ourselves into as far as, you know, I'm being hired to come and be a judge.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I know what that entails.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Once we start working for this company, whether it's one that we've worked for forever and or it's a one that's brand new to us, or last week and I was at a different competition event, now I'm at this one.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: The overall general guidelines and rules of that competition, or the breakdown of the scores, or those type of things, or how they base their levels, or how many acro tricks can be, you know, all of these things might vary from competition to competition.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Overall, always going to do the same job.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's just familiarizing ourselves with what are the expectations and how does this competition run their event, you know.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I think that's one of the harder things for like being a judge who works for multiple companies, which like with IDA specifically, we staff for multiple competitions.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, some some judges strictly work for one competition company, or others will be bouncing around all over the place.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the hard part is like flipping gears in your head and from the one that you just did last weekend to getting into the mindset of this is how this competition works, this is how this one's structured a little bit differently.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Your scoring like brackets might be different than what you're used to.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you start to get into the swing of it a little bit, like you know, halfway through the first day usually.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the first morning.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, okay, I'm there, I'm there.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's nine o'clock and you've been judging for two hours.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, okay, I think I've got the right.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing you showed up to do is the verbal critique.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we want to do.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: We love dance, we love judging, we love communicating with the dancers.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times in the beginning, it's just getting the logistics down.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, it's true.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're not all of us are familiar with the software that each competition is using.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: And that's, I think, a really stressful part.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think like, you know, I like to try to set myself up for success as best I can when I get there in the morning.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I make little cheat sheets for myself and like make sure I like write myself notes and like star stuff.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: I do that while I'm watching too, so I don't forget things.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I try to like, you know, take copious amounts of notes on on my on my own so that I can remember what I need to remember when I need to remember it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I like to make sure that I have those little and some competitions are, you know, generous and able and provide that stuff for us in a snapshot.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of the reasons I love working for IDA because you know, Courtney, like you guys really support us as much as possible on the back end.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it speaks volumes when competitions want to work with IDA because not only are you getting quality judges, but Courtney and you know, IDA really works to support us as much as we can so that we can come in and do our jobs.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the most stressful part is the software because it just so much can happen and you have zero control of over it.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then the competition is dealing with Wi-Fi in a high school gym, but they don't have to sleep over.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: It never goes well.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Never I mean, there's always like a hiccup.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, yeah, I mean, that's the that's the X factor.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I have to like talk myself off of a ledge sometimes.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you're okay, you're good, you got it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And there's, you know, at at this point, there's several, there's maybe two or three like proprietary softwares that most competitions use.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So like if you're like us and you've done this for a while, you're familiar with all of them by this point.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Early on when they were just sort of like people were trying to make their own, and it was like, okay, this is this real complicated.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is not gonna work.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think like you were saying, the hard part is if you are, and I think all of us have done this at one point or another, bounced around to like, I I worked for like six companies at one point, and everybody's rubric was different, everybody's percentages as to what you were what you could give for choreography versus technique were different.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Some places only allow two scores, whereas some places you know, you get a technique score and you get a performance score.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then some places give you six to eight things.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're like, ah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it is, you know, I think that's a really good thing for listeners to understand is that like this isn't just us giving a number.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is us giving multiple numbers that have to add up to something, you know, specific that then gets averaged into three, you know, takes takes from all three judges scores.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now that you say that, and I won't I do want to mention that it it does depend.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of different variations as far as like if it is on our end a single number where we say, okay, you know what, I'm I feel like that this dancer is a a low platinum based on all of these guidelines that I'm thinking in my head and judging them based on, but this is the number that I feel they are, and and didn't get totaled.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we don't have those subcategories and it is a single number, and then it does get combined into your three-person score out of 300.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that the other thing that's interesting is I've heard, and I don't know if this is totally true, but I've heard that on our end, when we're judging and we all are experiencing the broken down score with a technique score, a choreography score, an execution, a performance, a costume, whatever.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: And there's however many subcategories, and they total up to a hundred.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard sometimes that the studio owners and the teachers don't see that broken down score.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And they just get the single number.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's not nice.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like the three people totaled.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think they get the individual hundred and then the three people total, but they don't see how the score broke down.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think this is every comp, but I think that there supposedly from what I've heard, I judged at a comp once that did have it broken down, but then the teacher was like, I didn't see a broken down score, I just saw an 100.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, why am I doing all this extra work?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, like as a teacher, I want to know where I need the last point.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, where are you lost points?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because I really, as much as it's harder on us, it truly is everyone.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just letting you know, you think that it's not that hard to just put a number in for each thing.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: It makes it so much harder for us to put multiple numbers in the broken down score, but I really enjoy it because it does immediately show you where you need to work.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: If you got a 35 out of 40 on technique and you got a 40 out of 40 on performance, then you know that your technique is weaker than your performance, and that's what you need to work on, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that I think about like pretty much going into each competition.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there are bottom-up judges and there are top-down judges.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I go into it, and there's not, I don't think one is more correct than the other.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm more of a top-down.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think this stancer based on this competition is a platinum or is is a high gold.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, once I get a feel for the whole thing, I want it to land in that high gold realm.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, where do I need to put my numbers appropriately to let them end up in this high gold realm?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, giving them as they should be given, but then other judges will see it more as like, okay, I give them technique this, I give them performance this, I give them showmanship this, and then wherever that lands, that's more of where they end up.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't, I think that's just important to um let dancers and studio owners know that there's two ways to approach it, but also with I don't know, it is harder with having it for us to have those broken down numbers, especially you only have two and a half minutes at the most, maybe like 90 seconds.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to give verbal critiques and you're trying to get those broken down.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so even if it is just one number, we should be telling them all those things in our critiques.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: They should know what we what we feel about their technique, about their performance quality, about their storytelling, about all of that.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's more to the competition.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like the expectations should be verbal and maybe less broken down if you're debating.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I definitely think I approach it as like sort of, you know, I agree, Colin, that I'm like, okay, this is a, you know, platinum level dancer.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: And like, then where do they fall in that?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that I do like to make sure that I'm and I and I think that I in my notes ahead of time, like sort of break down for myself what that means when we're talking about the categories.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I break that down for myself so I can kind of quickly go boom, bop, okay, I'm gonna put this.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: In here, but I think I do sort of jump around and fill in the numbers as I go.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then of course have to go back and check and be like, okay, does this match up with what my my gut check is about the dancer?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: But and I agree, like studio owners and comps, like let's release the all the numbers.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's so important.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like I remember that as a dancer competing, like you want to know exactly what Courtney said.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: You want to know how you're doing in all of those areas.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And like, you know, we talk about uh I know we've talked about before like the importance of costuming and like cleanliness and you know and clean of lines and stuff.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: And and how important would it be to know if like for some reason, you know, your costume took a couple points off.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like you would want to know that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you with releasing one number, you have no idea what that, you know, what it ends up.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good point.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good point because I think that that's another issue in the industry in general, is just, and we've kind of talked about this many times on the podcast about how can we, and I think we very much talked about this in the age appropriate one, but just kind of like breaking rules and like who gets penalized for that for those type of things.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like we don't want to penalize the dancer, but if it's a teacher's mistake, then like how do we get that point across without just verbally saying it?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like sometimes if there isn't not a deduction box for the teacher on the score sheet, which I've personally never seen in my life, then But would be so great, people wouldn't that be wonderful.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: But like, let's talk about it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that should definitely be something that gets included into the industry, you know, especially after all of these conversations.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: But how do you get that point across, exactly like you said, Jesse?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: If if the dancers come out with holes in their tights and their presentation is sloppy, besides me just verbally saying, make sure you don't have holes in your tights, they're still not gonna get that, they're not gonna understand that this impacted your score if they don't see that broken down costume score with, you know, a tenth of a point off or whatever it is.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I would say definitely as a judge, like that's one of the ways.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Cause I never want to take off for someone's tech, you know, I never want to impact performance and technique.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think like those are the dancer, you know, and and and the dancer has ownership of those two categories.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I think think with costume, and I think, you know, I think there are ways to communicate that to the to the teacher and to the studio owner.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and and that's I think how a lot of judges are able to say that in number form.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: So hey everyone, it's Courtney, and I'm sorry for interrupting this awesome discussion, but I want to let you know about our sponsor, Dave Nothing.
• 24:39
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• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: They can create customized studio gears like radioactive sports brought and so much more.
• 24:56
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• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now let's get back to the how much does personal preference come into play when you're judging different styles?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I feel like I hear this a lot in like the complaint section, you know, of the forums out there is well, that judge just didn't like this kind of dance, and that judge just didn't like this.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as a judge, our job is to be objective.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: How do how do we feel about those accusations?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: I get, I have to like not get offended when I hear that, honestly.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because yeah, I mean, if you I think like you as the person, as the studio owner and teacher who's, you know, choosing the competitions, like I would hope people are are vetting the types of judges that they're getting.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so then when you have vetted the the company that you're choosing to, you know, give your business to, then you should, I would hope that you would have a feeling of the sort of the caliber that you're gonna get, right?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I think when people say, Oh, well, like that just judge just didn't like us or didn't like our style, like I would challenge and say, okay, that that could they might that might not be their preference, but you know, is there anything else that you think could have been going on?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Because there probably was.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, you know, it's of course, I think to a point personal preference is gonna be expressed because we have personal preferences and you know, and a and a lot of artists like to to give their personal preferences, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I really try to say, this is my, you know, this is how I feel, but you know, what you've done is this is how I feel about from a technical standpoint about what you have done, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if there's something that from a personal preference I don't like as much or agree with, I really try to for myself uh pull into the technique and the truths that I know that are not based in my opinion.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I try to keep it out, especially of the verbal critique as much as possible because you know, my opinion is not people come to competitions for a lot of different reasons.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I think, you know, opinions are some of it, but it's also to be adjudicated based on things that are, you know, easily adjudicated, which are technique and and performance quality.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I mean we are all hired for individual points of view, but at the same time, it's also our job, I believe, to, you know, give personal opinion.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: But there's certain times when it shouldn't affect a score.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like technique affects a score, but you know, I if it's like, oh, I prefer jazz hands, not like super splayed, but maybe a little bit closer together.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, am I gonna deduct your like technique score because of that?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, like that's not bad technique, that's my preference.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would offer that maybe verbally, like, hey, maybe for this blue skies musical theater number, you don't do like super splayed jazz hands.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're a little bit closer together or something like that for the style.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not wrong.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just my opinion.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a balance of how it affects your score, but then also we're just, you know, we are individuals, and that's why we were hired to have those opinions.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and like the things that are like opinions, it's like, you know, is it c is it like shoes or no shoes, or you know, like certain like tights or no tights, or it's like things that I think people have feelings about, and I think, you know, it's worth as a as a teacher, I like to hear other people's opinions because I think it makes me better as a teacher.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think you know, and when you hear an opinion that you don't particularly like, you know, maybe the challenge is to say, okay, well, is there a nugget of truth in that and how can I apply that to myself and and make myself better as a teacher?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's hard.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's really hard to do, especially when it's something that you might be passionate about, but I think, you know, it's worth examining.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like you said, it is hard.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And but, you know, people can do hard things and and you know, learned that this year, right?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: We can do really hard.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the one thing I'll say about I think preferences can come into play at a very, very, very high level.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say that, I mean, you know, when I look at, you know, three dancers, equal levels of technique, equal levels of showmanship, performance quality.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: But something has to make somebody stand out.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if everybody had a hundred in technique, I have to pick something that's gonna rank higher.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that is where personal preference can come in.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're down lower in the technic technical levels, obviously, you know, like we were saying earlier, you you don't wanna, I don't wanna pull some points off of your technique score if that's not what I need to pull from.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: But if that's what I need to pull from to drop your score to where I think that that's where you belong, that's what I'll do.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're operating at such a high level of technique and performance, then a judge will have to utilize and should utilize their personal preference.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it just doesn't mean you're better or worse than.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is where preference comes in.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think that while you were saying that, and you know what I'm gonna say, I do that this literally just happened for us.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: So our in our virtual competition, I'm literally thinking of the senior soloists who got first, second, and third in our latest January fall, winter, technically was what it was called.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if some of you are listening, we love you all.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: We love you, and you know who you are, and you're all extremely beautiful.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh these three beautiful dancers who got these rankings.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was literally like nail biting on the edge of my seat, waiting to see these judges' scores come in because I I watch these dancers and they're there are stunning technicians, amazing performers are a total package, uh in their own way.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: And they're they're very different.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: They're three different, completely different styles of contemporary, and they are perfection in all three.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think at that point, like you said, Leslie, that's such a perfect example of it comes down at that point to uh the preference of well, which style do you think uh did you prefer more?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: And what style of contemporary or who who executed this slightly better, or based on what this dancer gave me, who did it better?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Or was the skill level of this one harder than this one, or did this one perform more?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's a comparison game at that point when all the other checkboxes are there in your score.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is a perfect example of of preference for sure.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also such a valid thing.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know it's hard to accept, like accept that, that like it might be hard if you're the person that came in second or third, that like it came down to personal preference.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing is, in the professional world in our industry, that is what it all comes down to.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's one of the lessons that I, you know, and this is another podcast episode, but like that like I took away from competing, right?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I learned when I and I learned it first as a six-year-old competing.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then I continued to learn it all through high school, and then I continued to learn it in college in a different way.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then, and then I still learned it at every audition that I faced, you know, in my professional career.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's that is such an important thing that competitions give you that you cannot learn in any other in another way, because your teachers and your studio owners and like conventions that you go to even like can't do that same thing.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's super important to remember.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Once, yeah, once like Leslie said, once you're past a certain level, once you're we're all working at the same caliber or something, or if you're working professionally, once you've made it to the third, fourth, fifth callback, there's five other people, in my case, five other boys that look exactly like me.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Any of us could do this job, and then it's just who they like better, like not even on like as a person on a personal level, but like you know, the casting director likes this person, the choreographer likes this person, the director likes this person, the music director likes this person, and they end up going with person B.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's very similar to how it is.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's uh and and then it gets like so subjective.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like so, and that's the stuff where like, you know, when you try your hardest and you really have done all the things that you can do, then you know, you've done it.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: You've done it.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: You have, and that's so like it's such a hard lesson to learn.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: And but that's you know, that that's it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's competing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's being in the real world.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it's also important to know that it it really depends on like the cards, the cards you were dealt that day.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like everyone.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: And who else is there?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like who else shows up and what who's behind the table?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's really going to determine everything.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: You might be a super technical studio that takes ballet five times a week, and you might have a panel of judges that are predominantly hip-hop or don't have a much technical background or foundation, and they might not understand that what you're doing.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what you're doing, or it could go the opposite way, you know.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: They could it could be a bunch of bunheads, balletrinas behind the table, and you're coming out doing hip-hop, and no one knows, they don't know how to judge it or what's going on, you know.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's the cards that you were dealt that day at that competition.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: And let's hope and pray that no competition would just put strictly ballerinas unless we're at like Grand Prix or, you know, something like that.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: We want to have variety on the judging panel, and we want to have judges that know a variety of styles, which FYI, that is the goal.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's another thing that we can talk about.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're going there, I guess, right now, but like it's an extremely hard job for judges to know every single style of dance and every level of that style of dance and be experts at it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so and to be able to pull it, yeah, and like to be able to pull it out in like that three to you know, six to however long of the production or super production or whatever, you know, that competition has.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like to be able to pull that out, you know, in that moment.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, stream of content.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Number after number after number.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and especially like when competitions are like jumping, you know, when you are in contemporary teen contemporary and then you're going to like junior tap, and then you're, you know, when you're popping all around, it is.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, I we are hired for a job and we are experts, and that's why we do our job.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I do also think that I would ask everyone out there listening to remember that we are people and that we that you know, understand like it it is hard sometimes.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, and and and sometimes we make a mistake, you know?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you completely make a mistake and we tell the competition or you don't realize it, you know.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we try again, like we try to do our best in the moment, but you know, I think again, if you are attending competitions where you feel like the judges are purposefully doing things, then like maybe you need to examine, examine what you know, who you go to and how you are at that competition.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, we're people too.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's it's a really hard job.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not easy, it's not it's not as easy as people might think.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: That you just get to sit and watch dance all day.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: How awesome is that?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: It is awesome, it's an amazing job.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of the best jobs, I think.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's but we are like our brain, I mean, we all lose our voice, everybody on every weekend.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm mush.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: I am physically and mentally mush by some.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: Emotionally.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm thinking about you know, we we all have taught dance, can continue to teach dance.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: We can all teach multiple styles.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can a math teacher teach teach English?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So like you're essentially asking like a high school or college level specialty teacher to then teach everything in that kid's curriculum.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and we can do that in the dance world.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can teach tap, ballet, jazz, lyrical, contemporary rich.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't teach real contemporary, but like I can get you close close enough.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so yeah, like imagine any anybody else in any other industry doing what we do for 15 hours a day.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with two breaks and like a couple of moments to go to the bathroom.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's there's no question.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, this it's hard.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: It is our job and we should be working hard, but I think it's important to have grace for the judges and just understand that, like, hopefully, they should be working really hard and speaking a lot and doing what they can and giving constructive critiques.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: But like, we are still human beings and performers and have strengths and have weaknesses.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I often say this with mostly in like critiquing tap, but like there's you know, there's universal languages for some things, but there's a lot of things that just like tap does not have as much of a universal language.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: So what I call a this and what that student calls a that, like that doesn't make me stupid or a bad judge or like poor tapper.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like those things aren't true.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you just have to understand, like, that we all kind of have, especially that like even with like hip-hop and other things, like I don't have the vocabulary for hip hop.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't, you know, and so it's just trying to like, I can I know what I need to say, and so I'm gonna try to say it to you, but it might not sound as eloquent as as you guys, if you're a hip-hop studio, are used to hearing, or people who aren't tap judges when they're trying to give you some feedback, but maybe it's not in the words you're used to hearing.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make them a bad dancer or a bad judge.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: They just come from a different place.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that goes back to again, like choosing the competitions you go to and and knowing like how they they build their judges, judging panel.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: And like if the type of feedback that you're looking for is super technical, then in in and you're a hip hop studio or you're a tap studio, then you know, make sure that you're going to competitions that are in setting that your your studio up for success, too.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that another bit of advice, and I know this is still kind of early in the season right now with this episode launch.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if you haven't registered for the season yet, or competitions might get canceled based on whatever's going on in your state, and you need to sign up for a different new competition that you've never worked for.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say, for example, you are a tap studio and you want to make sure that you have good tap feedback, tell the competition hey, we're a really strong tap studio, we're a very advanced tap studio.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: We're looking for judges that know tap or at least one that's gonna give us a really solid critique and know what they're talking about.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: That immediately is gonna, if the competition is smart, which knock on wood, they are, then they are going to be like, all right, where are my tap judges?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: I need at least one tap judge on this roster, which happens all the time when I'm casting for for judging panels with IDA.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: I can't speak for others, but I do know that this does happen with the competitions that care about that and care about what their clients need.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, most of the time, you're always gonna have a judging panel that knows the basics.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody is gonna know ballet, tap, jazz, the technical foundations of those, you know, it if there's a lot of hip-hop, it's hit or miss, you know, because the hard part about hip-hop for a lot of judges is we either don't really do it, we don't specialize in it, we don't, we don't have a lot of training in it.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And most of the time, if you have a technical foundation, unless you were in living in the commercial world for a while, then you you may not do hip-hop that often and you don't, you know, you're not a hip-hop teacher.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the hard part about bringing a hip hop judge on is they might not have the technical foundation to back up the other style.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really hard to kind of cast for that as far as your judging panel.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that if you are a studio that feels that you have a specific genre that is out of the norm and that you don't you don't see as often on stage, but you really want to make sure that you have a qualified panel, tell the competition, and hopefully they'll listen to you and give you what you want, which there are tap judges out there, there are hip hop judges out there.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a matter of finding them, you know.
• 41:21
  unknown: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: And like vocal, I would say that's another one.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like the vocal category, because that can be super scary for judges.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: For dancers to judge, right?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that don't know anything about I mean, yeah, like I have a music degree, and so that is the only like so I feel like I can I have a language to talk in, right?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: But like that is something that I think definitely like advocate for your students in that way.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, acro too.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's if you're a really serious, like, yeah, I think Courtney, that's such a good point.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Just like tell the competition.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just expect that they're gonna know.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like you they're gonna see your entries and they're gonna see, like, oh wow, this studio brought a lot of tap.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we should have a tap.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Or oh wow, there's a lot of accro.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like that you gotta really you gotta speak up and say, like, listen, like I will bring my business to you if you provide me with a solid judging panel that's going to work for my studio.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then everybody's happy, right?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: The competition is happy because they feel like they've they've met the what what you know, the the demand.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're happy because you're gonna get the sort of critiques that you want, the caliber.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this even we can even get further into the niche because I know for our virtual, we've had some stunning cultural dances from so many different cultures.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that that is so very, very niche.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's even more niche than tap, hip-hop, acro, vocal.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I think generally most dancers can speak to something in every category.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I also would say, you know, to any studios or individuals that are wanting to enter competitions with a specific cultural dance, we we will have something to say that will be constructive.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And again, as we mentioned earlier, it may not be in that in the language of of what your technique for, you know, cultural Chinese dance may be.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: I may call something a ton do because that's the language that I have to describe a foot that's pointed.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I I would encourage anybody who's listening who's got any sort of more niche style, there is still a benefit to coming to a sort of run-of-the-mill dance competition.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we're always so happy.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're so happy to see more cultural, you know, cultural dances coming through because it's it's it's different.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so much.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's I'm I'm really glad you brought that up.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think what is so so cool about seeing so many different genres and variety of dance being entered into competitions and those studios or dancers not being afraid to bring that to the stage when they know that probably none of the judges have any experience in this.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, let's talk about like clogging.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's something that's very big in the South.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not top.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is not the same.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's similar, but it's not the same.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's a different technique to clogging.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's Irish step dance.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen hula on stage before, Chinese cultural world dance, African, Bollywood, Indian dance, like all of these different styles.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: We have probably all sat and experienced them and we have learned from them.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: But the one thing that's so great is that as really experienced, educated judges, we, like you said, will always find something to be able to critique and give feedback on, since dance is such a universal art form.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we can tell if you're dancing on the beat of the music or not.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, musicality, dynamics, arm angles, use of your focus, storytelling, or something else to talk about, even if it's not technically speaking in those terms as to what we don't have experience to speak on, but we'll still be able to provide you with, you know, hopefully useful feedback and just sit back and enjoy it.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it'll honestly be it's a breath of fresh air.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to lie.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because how many contemporary dancers can we see in one weekend?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Give me some Bollywood, please.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: Give me some clogging to Kelly Clarkson, like yes.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: So levels, you would be hard pressed to find a competition without levels anymore.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna speak as if people know that that is just the thing.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: It we just have levels, it is what it is.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's 2021.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, levels are here without levels.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Levels are here to stay.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think they're going anywhere.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: So my question to you, because I think people are wondering, is how do levels affect how you judge?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously there are levels for a reason.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: The reason is it is quote unquote, now whether I agree with this reason is to be continued.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: But there are levels because it is not fair, quote unquote, to judge somebody who dances five hours a week against somebody who dances 15 hours a week.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, there are levels, so therefore they should not be judged in the same way.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: How but as a judge, how does that complicate your job?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: A lot.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of those.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: I wish if I were, if I had a genie that we could all all the competitions and all the judges and all the studios, we could all get on the same page.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one is not right and one is not wrong, but like if we could all agree that this is how we set it, it would make things easier and it would make people, it would help a lot of hurt feelings, but that's not the case.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think yeah, it's more just, and I guess this is speaking more to judging how you take those levels in.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: And some competitions want you to acknowledge them but not score differently, and others want you to acknowledge them and score differently.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's surprising that sometimes that's a question that has to be asked.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I often feel like I don't necessarily get a straightforward answer.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are we is everyone on the same 100-point scale, or is a beginner on a different 100-point scale and a an advanced person on their own 100-point scale?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that I feel like should be really clear, but it's often not, you know, if we're all on one scale, a great beginner should be getting an 80, and a great advanced dancer should be getting a 98.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're all on separate scales, a great beginner should get a 98, and a great advanced dancer should get a 98.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Those are very different things.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very confusing.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very and there's a whole middle ground in between.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wouldn't that be nice if it was just two?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: We could probably like that would just be so much easier.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even three is like not a thing anymore.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like advanced novice.
• 47:35
  unknown: Right.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: At least one hour a week.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're an advanced novice.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: That makes no sense.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Helpful.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, I think that um it it is really confusing.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's really, and and I agree, Colin.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, you know, you it's it's one more thing you have to absorb as a judge in that time before the competition, you know, making sure we can get any semblance of clarity on that.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that, you know, there are some things that I look for across level, which is definitely, you know, performance quality.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: And but then, you know, storytelling, level of storytelling, I think, then I sort of have to scale that back.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you're only someone who dances, you know, five hours a week or less, you know, you might not be quite as proficient in that storytelling element.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, should you be able to smile or have some emotion from start, you know, from the moment your big toe hits the Marley as you walk on to the moment, you know, I see the back of your bun as you leave, like, you know, that's stuff that no matter what level, there should be a level of care that's put to.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's something, you know, attention to some of that stuff is not bound by level.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's very true.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, levels.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know how I feel about them, y'all.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't had a chance to listen to our level episode, go take a listen to that one.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's the plug right now.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: We we tell it like it is in that episode.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh, we we let you know our thoughts and feelings of of levels.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, to me, I I always I associated, I almost kind of considered levels as your age, like before levels existed.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like base your age range is your level.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: I expect an eight-year-old to be doing this regardless of how many hours.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's just a whole new thing in the past 10 to 15 years in the competition world, is now hours of week come into play into you know your category.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: But before it was like an eight-year-old should be doing single pirouettes and a 10-year-old should be doing double pirouettes, and once you're 13, you should have your triple or something like that.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's not true.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be necessarily true.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: But now we're kind of going backwards where okay, well, if you're a 13-year-old beginner, then you're you're just doing a single pirouette.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what I mean?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's just a lot to kind of comprehend and wrap your mind around because And the terminology is different with every competition.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then like we're I I think that there's a lot of time, and I think the reason that the level talk is so often in the industry and within the forums and just talk of the town, because there are so many times where I'm sitting there as a judge and I walk a dancer watch a dancer come out on stage, and I can just tell by the way that they're walking on stage and how they present themselves and carry themselves that they're not a beginner dancer.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: But yet they're in the beginner category, so I'm just trusting and hoping that you're n not cheating the system and that this dancer actually only takes two hours a week of dance, which I don't believe.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so like we're trusting the teachers and the parents that they're doing the right thing by placing their kids in the proper level, and we want to judge you for that, but most of the time we can tell if you belong what level you belong in.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you put a bunch of yeah, put a bunch of younger dancers in a like non-young dance group to bring the level down, like we always know.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like we know, here's some things.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we get it, we see it.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually, I would argue, one of the first things we can see within the first totally sec literally seconds of the dance.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it is, you know, I again when we're talking about like removing your personal preference sometimes, like that is something that I have to try really hard sometimes to not get sort of, you know, I it's hard when I feel like I as a judge get put in a position where I'm asked to turn a blind eye to something.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: And like, you know, and you know, and then we have to then do we mention it to the competition, like, hey, this studio keeps doing this, like then it just puts us in a I mean, you know, you again come to us for for you know, honest and you know, honest feedback.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then so then if there's some sort of like dishonest weird thing going on, then we're like, And the fact that other others the thing that always trips me up sometimes is I'm sitting there and I watch like a soloist come in come in and she's in the advanced category and she's beautiful and she's advanced and that's where she belongs.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then I see that same soloist dancing in the intermediate level in a group, and I'm like, what's going on?
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the same thing can like it happens all the time, and I and I'm sure that I'm sure that the competition knows or or the rules allow it, but it's still confusing to for me as a judge.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm like, like, is this allowed?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if this is right.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I just think if you're an advanced dancer, you're an advanced dancer, you dance in advance.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: You don't get to crisscross and go back and forth and go where you know, because like to me, the studio is kind of cheating the system if the if the competition for some reason allows that, because I think some of them are like there's a ratio of you can have three advanced dancers and an intermediate dance or something like that, which is again why.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, that's just confusing us more.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: But like to me, that's the studio taking advantage of the fact that okay, well, I'm gonna bring my advanced dancers in and they're gonna be the star of the intermediate dance so we can win intermediate.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's not no, no, no, no.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Who cares?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's not the point.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's not the point.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we shouldn't all be competing against each other.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: Shouldn't be the point, right?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if we're gonna have levels, we need to make sure that that we're using them properly.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if not, then we need to make rid of levels.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like what you said earlier, Courtney.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I wish this was actually the case where it was an eight-year-old's expected to do this, a 10-year-old's expected to do this.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would love it if levels meant that, because they don't at most places.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in the hours per yes, like I want to see what skills you're expecting.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if you tick those boxes off, boom, you're in this level.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's, you know, and and I hate to start to compare it to, you know, something like ice skating or a compulsory kind of a kind of a sport, but but it's just it's harder the way we do it now.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's just harder.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's harder on everybody.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, Colin, everybody's different.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like one competition might be you're a beginner if you've only if you only dance two hours a week, or another competition might be you're a beginner if you dance four hours or less.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you've only competed in the last or one year.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like, well, but then you're not taking into account all those kids who dance at a performing arts high school, all those kids who do church dance, and like there's training being happening other places, right?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're not counting into this or the kid that takes gymnastics four times a week, or it's a little bit more than a little bit.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the schedule is all mixed up, so we can't attract that way.
• 54:28
  unknown: Right.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing that's really hard with the addition of levels, that there are some competitions that we go to that, and you know, this is this is talking of a non-COVID season, but I know that like this season, yeah, but the pre-2020 2020 season, pretty much.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: But when it's there are some competitions that combined all the levels at the same time.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like here is a block of the advanced and here's a block of the intermediate.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's here's an eight-year-old beginner small group, and then the next dance is a 15-year-old advanced tap or something.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and you're and your brain is just like flipping around like crazy.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: It just makes our jobs so much harder to do with the addition of levels, the age divisions, the different styles of dance, not going in a row.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's so many factors that no one probably even realizes.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I also don't think, you know, speaking of pre-COVID times, the complaint the complaint or the concern I'm hearing now about block scheduling is well, how is a judge gonna know from Friday to Saturday, you know, if if all you're seeing is the same studio and then the same studio?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I would argue that it's no different than a regular schedule because of that exact same thing you just said, Courtney.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just I have to watch level after level of different ages and styles, and I'm like, where am I again?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: I might see the next 15-year-old advanced solo tomorrow because that's how the schedule is.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's just how some competitions do it.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I I would I would reserve your judgment, folks, on the block scheduling if you haven't done it yet for that particular reason.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: There may be other reasons you're concerned, but like that reason I think is null and void at this point.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think the hardest part about the block scheduling, and we've talked about we've talked about block scheduling a lot this season on the podcast, and I think that we have to because it's so new to people, and especially for some of us who have already experienced it as from the judging side or the teacher side or whatever.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the hardest part about block scheduling is kind of finding the range for the event on the judge's end.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: That is the hard part.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: And knowing, because usually, you know, to give you like some insider, usually we can get a feel for the level of talent and the range of the event within the first 10 to 20 dances at an event.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Whether it's a one day or two day or three day, we're seeing different studios come, we're seeing the caliber, we're seeing where everybody falls within each level, and then kind of break aging off of that.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: This time now we're kind of seeing like many recitals of each studio and block scheduling, right?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what kind of gets a little bit tricky that when you add in the addition of levels, you add in the different age divisions, and you're seeing the same studio all in one block.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think for a judge from a judging perspective, that's what's hard.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we've also mentioned before that you and this might be tough to hear, but you might not hear as many different variations in your adjudication as you are typically used to w in a regular award ceremony or when it's all in your block, right?
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because you might fall into the oh, I'm in the platinum level studio and I'm a diamond studio, or I'm a high gold studio, and maybe I have a platinum here, a high gold there, whatever it is, you know, whatever the ranges are.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't feel as intense when you're in a regular award ceremony and it's all kind of intermingled with other studios and hearing other adjudications.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, just kind of be prepared for that.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that might be another like shock to to some of the studios, you know, just during awards in general in the block scheduling format.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's not a reflection of your judges and their ability to do their job.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually a reflection on us having done our job well.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: Don't you want to hear that like if you're if you like Courtney said, like are a platinum, you know, caliber studio, don't you want to get that affirmation that you have in fact like, you know, ticked that box like throughout your your, you know, section, your your block, like that's, you know, and then you of course have your outliers, but I think that that's a really good point, Leslie.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's a positive, not necessarily a negative.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there there are gonna be times when a dancer or a studio owner or a teacher sees a score and they're concerned.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've I've seen this happen, you know, somebody is gonna come up and and there will be a concern, you know, this is this is too low, or I don't understand how this dancer beat that dancer or whatever it is.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: What's your response to that?
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like what would your response be?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know what my response would be.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think at first it's, you know, I I want to hear, I that that that's interesting.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: That I want to hear that, right?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like I of course Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that hasn't happened a lot to me in my judging career.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I can't really say that and that's probably lucky because I feel like that just it that does happen a lot to people.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, I think that hearing people's concerns and listening is important, but I also think that, you know, I do hold myself to a certain standard and I do generally unlike I said, like, you know, sometimes you just mess up, right?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and and and I and I as I hold myself to that standard would say to the competition, like, I totally mess that up.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was a mistake, like fix it, let's do something, what can we do?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and and that is in each individual situation, but you know, I stand by my critiques and scores and decisions and am happy to continue to be able to communicate why I feel that way.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, generally speaking, I would say, like, let's I'm happy to listen, but you know, that was my opinion.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like unless it's like I typed a six instead of a nine.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right, which like happens.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it happened, but there should not should, but well, no, there should.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: There should be somebody coming down and saying, like, was this the score you meant to put in?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a tabulator stuff for us.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been very rare.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, occasionally if there's the three of us judges, or and we go back to the hotel, maybe we're chatting about some things, it's the end of the last day, and it's like, oh, really?
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: You thought that was I thought that you know, but if anything, I feel like we get more set in our decision than less.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I rarely go to sleep at night thinking like, oh, I shouldn't my my number two should have been my number one, or you know, it's that's very rare.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's like we I missed the mark on that.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, I was really I yeah.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I welcome the I welcome, you know, the opinion of you know the the card pro studio owner.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear I would always love to hear more about their side of it, but at the end of the day, it's it's I mean I feel bad saying this, but it's my opinion and it's my job.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: And my job is to yeah, my job is to give my score.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I can't think of a time where I've like regretted a a score that I appropriately gave.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, and like even when I haven't necessarily agreed with some of the other judges, because I think sometimes like you know, you'll f you'll one of the really interesting things that I think I always appreciate from competitions is when they, you know, when we there's always like a moment where the judges sort of like start to think it is in that like 10 to 20, like you know, you've seen you you're starting to get a feel for what's going on, and then you all sort of sort of start to gel.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I do appreciate when someone when a competition is like, hey, uh, did you that score was different than everybody else's?
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, they they don't tell you, they don't tell you how it was different, but they check with you.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I always appreciate that because it's like, oh, I did mean that, or oh no, that's supposed to be a nine, not a six.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, that that's important.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: But I yeah, I mean, I think that that's the beauty of going to a competition is is having those opinions and yeah, that's why you're that's why you're paying the money, right?
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Not every like, yeah, like you said, not everyone's going to agree with your opinion or your score.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: And not all the judges are always going to be on the same page either, you know, like in a perfect world, the judges should be within a five-point spread of one another in a perfect world.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have a solid judging panel, y'all might be on the same page the whole time.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't even know it because we don't see the other judges' scores.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just naturally happening and it just worked out well.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: But there could be a judge that's controlling the panel that's scoring really high or really low and you know, throwing the whole panel vibe off.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: That that could happen too.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think to the answer to your question, Leslie, as far as like what do we tell the studio owner if they're unhappy with the score, the first thing I'm gonna say is have you listen to your critiques.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because your critiques back up the score.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: So should back up.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: Good point.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't, then there's a problem.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then advocate for your students.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: If that's right, if that's the case, then then there is a huge red flag.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think again, like you've kind of mentioned, Jesse, it really comes back to the quality of judges on the panel and if they're vetted.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because if their score is their score, and at the end of the competition, you haven't gotten your judges' critiques.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: You have obviously have not.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you walk out of that auditorium, you haven't listened to a single critique yet.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: You maybe got your scores in your hand.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: You have your scores in your hand, but you have not listened to what the judges had to say.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're unhappy with one of the scores or some of the scores or whatever, and immediately thinking, wow, that should have been a diamond.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe this judge gave it a platinum, whatever.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: Then you're gonna go, you have to go back and listen to your critiques.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let me go, let me go see what they said.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if that judge backs up that score and you understand why that number is that number, by the end of that critique, then they did their job.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you have no idea why they gave it a 92.7 by the time you finish that critique, then you go to the competition and say, Yes, I'm not really sure if this score makes sense.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm unsatisfied with my judge's critiques because you should be.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because they obviously didn't do their job.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you should walk away from every critique understanding your score.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's our job as judges is to make sure that our critiques back it up.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you're not going to get that if the judges aren't qualified because they don't know what they're doing.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: Or they just sit there and say, cute dress.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: Cute your face.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_03: My gosh.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_03: That is I have so many tapes.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, tapes.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm old.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Tapes from my competitions growing up where before like any of these conversations were being had, like in a more public, you know, space.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we were like, thank goodness we've been able to have these conversations because I have tapes and tapes and tapes of nice turn.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: A turn, a turn, not even a carelette, just a turn.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, sweetie, you've got a great smile.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: Love the rhinestones.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and and you know, yeah, and like, and so, you know, I think you know, you you should be having stream of consciousness critiques.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's judges should be talking the whole time.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: There's always something to talk about.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's always something.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: There's always something, and you know, and like how lucky are you if they if they talk the whole time and it's and it's about like these overarching ideas that you get to learn more from, and you get to, you know, some of these judges' panels, like there's people that you wouldn't get access to otherwise who have this experience that you wouldn't have access to otherwise, and you get to hear their their opinions and their and their feedback about what you're doing.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's such a gift.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's how I I you know, I think it's I like to approach competing and I like to encourage my students to approach competing.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's why we go to competition to get that feedback because I you know, I as a teacher can give it, but I but you have to sometimes hear it in other voices from other people.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's actually one of my favorite things to hear as a judge or to hear from people like from judges that, like, oh, like my daughter like needed to needed to hear that, you know, her teacher's been saying that, but you said it in a different way.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_03: When I judge for Diva, you know, people are able to they hear our critiques in the moment, and then so we can sometimes have those conversations like after the after the comp is over.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: And like that's that's awesome.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome that I was able to make an impact.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I love judging because I get to teach in that other way.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like anyone who has ever sat next to me at a competition knows I'm a talker.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I say a lot in my critiques.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I just assume that every studio listens to every critique I say, which I know is not true, but we should be working on it.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Keep talking about it, even everyone.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I would encourage every studio, even if they don't yet, to start listening to every critique, because that will probably answer the four questions.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for joining us for our 50th episode.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can follow our guests on social media comment today at Collin and 50th attack.
• 1:07:15
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• 1:07:22
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• 1:07:27
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• 1:07:44
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• 1:07:51
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• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: Stay subscribed to the February edition of QA Reporting, Musicality, and Trips versus I.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for tuning in and listening to Making the Impact.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep dancing.