Latest / The BIG LIFE / Michigan State's Awesome Journey to the Top of Women's Soccer! And How to Navigate Team Dynamics

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Michigan State's Awesome Journey to the Top of Women's Soccer! And How to Navigate Team Dynamics · The BIG LIFE

0:04
Hey everyone and welcome back to
0:07
the big life i am here with of course as always miss jordan wickis but recently
0:13
on michigan state's number one ranked team in the country jordan the rankings
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come out typically after we record the podcast so we didn't get to talk about this last week but
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last week it came out Michigan State ranked number one in the country for college
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women's soccer. How does it feel?
0:33
It feels absolutely incredible. I mean, like we've talked about the journey
0:37
throughout all of this and the change I've been able to be a part of and see
0:41
this program have is really incredible.
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And I think I wish I had it that I could look it up or see the exact number,
0:48
but we were well within the 200s when I committed and was looking at Michigan State here.
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So to go from that and to really have such a dramatic turnaround in such a short
0:57
period of time, even if it is short-lived, I don't expect them to remain the same for this week.
1:02
Unfortunately, we did have two ties after that ranking, but it's an incredible feeling.
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And it is it's so amazing to have that, even though, you know, we've said it before,
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the only ranking that matters is the one at the end of the season to still have
1:15
that recognition at this point is is so amazing for this team and even more
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amazing for the people who are here before us in my freshman and sophomore year
1:23
that really helped change this program around and rebuild it to what it is today.
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I gotta ask you know the rankings come out I'm
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sure the buzz was going off in the team group chats people sending
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it but what was Jeff's message to the team and how did
1:36
your team talk about it and address something as monumental
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as this but also you don't want to get caught up in it so what was that balance
1:42
like yeah so the we
1:45
practice at like 3 p.m which is right around when the rankings come out so we
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had a nice little like team gathering Jeff's ready for our pre-practice kind
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of speech whatever practice plan and you know he pulls us all in and he's like
1:59
starts giving this speech and we're like what is going on like what's happening.
2:04
And he tells us like in person that we're number one. And I think the initial
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reaction, like he had to tell us again, because I think our initial reaction was just pure shock.
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That we didn't really get to express the kind of like excitement for it at first
2:18
because we were just, I think, all really surprised to be in that position.
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But he was, you know, I think his messaging was similar to your question where
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it was like, while this is super exciting, you know, there is still more work
2:31
to be done. and we do still have to go out and continue to get results.
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I want you guys to acknowledge this and enjoy this and enjoy the process of
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it, enjoy your recognition.
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However, don't get too tied up in it. And I think his biggest message was,
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I don't want you to play scared to lose it.
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You know, if we go out and we drop the ball, we're not going to win or lose,
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you know, a conference title or a national title in the next week here.
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So he didn't want us to go out and kind of play like we were protecting that,
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like we had something to lose.
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And you know I think it was just like a moment of really recognizing how far
3:06
this program has come for everyone from his side as well because you know he's
3:10
the one who did this and changed it so they were all it was it was a very very
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cool moment and I think like I said the initial.
3:16
Excitement was just pure shock that we've come this far no that's totally cool
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I know like when I saw it come up on my phone I was just like that you know
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like you said it's not the Michigan State I played against by freshman year and to see the change.
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And I think we definitely have to get Jeff back on the pod to kind of talk about
3:33
what it's meant to him and the journey. But it has been an adventure.
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I know. And I know it's been a pleasure to see it kind of on a personal basis
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and for all of our viewers.
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So we're also happy for y'all and continuing to root on. It's a great milestone.
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And, you know, on top of this, there's other big moments in the big life to get to.
3:51
But that was that was the big one. We had it. We had to shout it out at the beginning.
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You did say two ties let's go
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into the weekend how did the weekend go for you guys how'd you feel going into the
4:00
weekend yeah I think it was a
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tough tough week for us it's definitely not the results we wanted going out
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we played at that point we were number one Ohio State was ranked number 11 we
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went to Ohio State and we ended up walking away with a you know a tie and I
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think it's just you know tying I feel like it's almost harder than winning or
4:22
losing like it's just you
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kind of walk off and the game just kind of like ends at the clock and no one's really happy.
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No one's really like knows what to do with it.
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I think it's exciting to see how far we've come as a program where a tie does
4:35
feel like a loss and how much that means to us and the standard we hold ourselves to.
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I think it was a very good game. Do I think we should have walked away with the win? Absolutely.
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I think we had every opportunity possible and we need to figure out a way to
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get it done in those crucial minutes.
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And then turning around to Rutgers, which is right now leading the conference
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in terms of their standings and their record.
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We play them at home and they've only let in two goals the entire season up
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until our game we had put the third away against them scored we were up one
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nothing until the last like,
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I don't know four minutes and unfortunately we had another handball in the box
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giving them a last minute PK felt very similar to Xavier and you know walk away
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with the tie that one was still leaves a sour taste in our mouth because we
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had that one in the bag and to have such a last minute, unfortunately,
5:28
PK to give them again after already doing it against Xavier in our non-conference
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play was not what we wanted.
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So we are regrouping and moving forward to now playing our most talked about
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team, Michigan, Saturday for the nice rivalry, Saturday 7 p.m.
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Game, which should be a good crowd.
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And it's always an incredible environment to be a part of.
5:49
Yeah, no, that's it's tough. Like you said, you go in with the highs of the
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the week being ranked number one and then two unfortunate ties and now I get
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what you mean in the sense of like I feel like ties have the potential to feel
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like wins or losses and on my side of it I know my last two games I've actually.
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Ties as well and one of them we were down 2-0 scrappy
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comeback fight we tie it to get like the 94th minute
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to tie 2-2 you leave that game feeling like that ties a win you know then this
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one once again this week we went down early came back and tied it but we had
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every chance in the world to win the game and so it's like I feel like ties
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can either be kind of like wins and not kind of like losses as well absolutely
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you said 94th minute you play overtime not overtime but like
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extra stoppage time oh yeah yeah like
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the rest of the world that's like that was one of the weird adjustments going to pro
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was you know in college you don't do stoppage time obviously the
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clock stops when there's goals or injuries or stuff like that but
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there's no actual like additional time so now like as someone trying to control
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a game and know the scenario you're in the 89th minute you're no longer really
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like holding out we have seconds so when you have to wait for the referee to
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hold up that there's seven minutes of stoppage time and stuff like that going
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on which can sometimes feel like a dream and other times feel like your biggest nightmare.
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Yeah. I didn't even think about that. Cause I was, we were looking at like play
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time the other day and you know, whatever.
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And it was how much time the ball actually spends out of bounds for every throw
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in and every corner kick and every, you know, every time at the end when the
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goalie falls on the ball, like you play a true 90, it's got to feel way different than college.
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Cause I mean, we probably play what 80 minutes in theory, like minutes.
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Oh yeah. Yeah, I would definitely guess. Yeah, adding stoppage time.
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That was one of the things I think I underestimated the most going into pro.
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And it's it definitely it catches up to you pretty quick.
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I can imagine. All right. And with other big moments in the big life,
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you know, last week we shouted out, of course, Michigan State,
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but also Iowa for being unbeaten throughout this year.
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You guys added two more ties and got to give to Iowa. They added two more wins with a big upset.
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A lot would say at home, they beat Penn State two to one. That was a crazy game.
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Penn State scores in the first minute of the game.
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And then Iowa comes back and scores two by the 14th minute. it.
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So three goals scored in the first 14 minutes and then shut out the rest of the game.
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So Iowa wins at home there and then wins on the road at Northwestern.
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So Iowa and Michigan State are the two unbeaten teams in the Big Ten,
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which is still, I got to say, it's because of us.
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Absolutely. We take full credit for this. 100%. It has nothing to do with anything
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else. It is purely the Big Life podcast controlling this narrative.
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And then on top of that, you already already mentioned it, Rutgers,
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you know, let in three goals this entire season so far, one of them being to
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Michigan State, but clearly starting off with one of the top defenses in the country.
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They've really shown that aspect of their game that they're willing to defend.
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And that's something that I wouldn't really say was a characteristic of Rutgers a couple years ago.
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So I think it's something really cool that they seem to be really developing
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over in New Jersey over there.
8:53
Yeah, I definitely think this is a different Rutgers than we've been used to the last couple
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years and you know they just they find ways to get it done and
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now they're in the front of the conference and you know
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it's really up to them to either drop the ball in terms of a
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result here for the rest of us to be in the running yeah and they
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aren't alone they have three other teams joining them that are 4-0-1 so Redcars
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Iowa UCLA and USC are all 4-0-1 in Big Ten play so those four teams are sitting
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up there tied for first place as we start discussing what can go into to the Big Ten tournament.
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Absolutely. Speaking of which,
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we did get a little bit more information as to what that looks like.
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I think there's still some meetings that need to be had to figure out real logistics
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of it as we get closer to that kind of postseason mark.
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But the big thing being that the amount of teams that get entered have changed
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for the Big Ten tournament, allowing you now to have a possibility for a first round buy.
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So if you are ranked some of those top teams going into the tournament.
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You may not have to play that first round.
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So first, second and third round will all be in Minnesota and then the fourth
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round and final will be in Maryland at Audifield. So it's a five game tournament.
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Which is way different than I think what we're used to. But it is all going
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to be at Minnesota and then Maryland for those five rounds, which previous years
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it was at Columbus for the last two years.
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And then before that, it was the top-ranked team hosted the entire tournament.
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So a little bit different there and obviously different with how many teams are allowed in it.
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I think that having the bye adds an interesting factor.
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I know that other conference tournaments do something similar.
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Like the SEC, I believe has like a play in aspect or a buy aspect.
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And a five game tournament is a different animal.
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I mean, if you look at the Big Ten tournament in years past, it's been three games.
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You know, I can think about our pathway last year, and you win three games and
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you're the Big Ten champion, which I've always thought felt kind of weird.
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And so I think extending it, you know, is interesting.
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But and then you have to think about the placement. I think
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Minnesota Minnesota just feels a little bit random that Minnesota's
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hosting first that's great but odd and then
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playing out in Maryland when you have teams likely from both
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coasts and so I'm a little bit surprised it's not a little
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bit more centrally located but you know Audi feel
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of course professional environment both the Washington Spirit and DC Power play
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there so that's going to be a really cool environment to be able to play in
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yeah yeah absolutely I do agree that having a five-game tournament it gives
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you I think a better gauge of the best team coming out of it after five games
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where three games you can go on a run or have a streak or something like that.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are we talking about the streak last year? I don't really know.
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I think there's nothing wrong with a good Cinderella streak,
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but... Well, now you just got to do it two more games. You know,
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you just got to hang in there two more games.
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But yeah, I think it gives you a more well-balanced look and especially coming
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off of such an unbalanced conference schedule where we don't play so many teams this season.
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I think it does give you a good gauge going into the NCAA tournament of who
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the best teams really are between conference play and the tournament.
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Yeah, I think that's a really, really crucial point is I've been looking at
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Big Ten schedules and talking about it here and there with certain people.
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And it is just insane that now that there's 18 teams in the conference,
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the amount of teams that you don't.
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And so when it comes to that regular season title that used to,
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frankly, have so much weight to it, I feel like that weight does get taken away
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when you don't play almost half the teams in the conference.
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It feels very unbalanced.
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And so I think that extending the tournament, opening it up a bit does,
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like you said, make a true winner instead of, well, they didn't play this person
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or this person and they had this person at home instead of on the road.
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So, you know, the question mark factors that I feel like can definitely be thrown
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into do a conversation for an argument about who's truly the strongest team out of the conference.
12:45
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm surprised that they are still having a normal conference
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champion even because it's so unbalanced.
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I know there was talks about getting rid of that, but I'm happy they still have it.
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I would speculate that this would be the last year, though, unless they split
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up with the speculation more teams joining the Big Ten conference,
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unless they do divisions or something like that, that this would be the last
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year for normal conference champion?
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Yeah, the ultimate question was, I know rumors clearly hasn't gone to this,
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but the rumors were that soccer could almost turn into the football aspect of
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Big Ten East and Big Ten West.
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And so I do feel like having those aspects could make it interesting when you
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have like two sides and then they play off.
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And so there's so much going on, but I'm happy at least it's October now and
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we actually have an answer to what's going to happen at the end of October for
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the tournament, because normally the first round of the tournament's played
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around Halloween. Yeah. Yeah.
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It's crazy just how much things change and how quickly they change and how little us as players know.
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And even moving forward, how little the coaching staff appears to know for some of these things.
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They don't want to tell us all this information because it has constantly been
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changing and evolving throughout the process of it all.
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So it's been a really weird year to kind of just sit here and a lot of it is
14:01
just speculating on what's going to to happen but it does feel good to finally
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get some answers about what postseason is going to look like for us and the
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reality of it because at the end of the day you're you know you're chasing to
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be the best in every aspect conference conference tournament and then to double a tournament.
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Well, Jordan, that is it for our big moments and the big life.
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And I am extremely excited to get into a kind of a discussion with you and a
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little bit of background.
14:24
You know, when Jordan and I kind of talk about like what topics we want to hit
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on the podcast to different things, we talk about, you know,
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what's going on in our lives, what are we feeling and kind of connecting that to each other.
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And I told Jordan that I'm not going to give her a lot of information about
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what I want to talk about because I want her raw reactions as we get into this conversation.
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So a little warning, But I'm going to toss you a little warm-up question as
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we get into this, Jordan.
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At this point in the season, if I were to look back at my college career,
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I think that this is the point where I get tired.
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Not only physically, but this is where school, you know, maybe midterms really starts kicking in.
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You've been with each other nonstop. You're playing a lot of games.
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And this is when I would say personalities kind of become a big thing in the
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locker room. when sometimes you're
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like, I would like to get away from my teammates. I love my teammates.
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You know, like I feel like those five day trips by the end, I know I would like
15:17
to never see some of my teammates again after them, you know.
15:20
And then, of course, I see him two days later and everything's fine.
15:22
But how is it for you guys in the locker room right now or your experience in
15:27
college soccer when it comes to like this point of the season where you're kind of,
15:31
physically and emotionally and mentally starting to get a little bit fatigued
15:34
and you're around each other nonstop?
15:36
Yeah, yeah. I do think this is definitely where true personalities come to shine,
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especially as you go throughout the season and you have to face that sort of adversity.
15:46
It's really hard to put on the
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perfect face and do all these things when things are going really well.
15:51
And we were at home for nine games and winning and doing all these things.
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And once we started kind of traveling, you have the school aspect,
15:59
you have this adversity of things not going our way now the way they have necessarily
16:03
for the rest of the season.
16:05
It's definitely come to show some friction between some things.
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And that's not necessarily bad. I think it can go and you push each other to
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be the very best and hold each other accountable in ways that causes that.
16:18
But I think it's definitely at that point in the season where like everyone's
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facing midterm week now where we're just academically exhausted.
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And I think our cognitive function is lower than it probably normally is having
16:30
to focus on that and the physical buildup of just player load week after week
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after week after week as someone who plays a high level of minutes,
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their bodies are fatiguing and you're starting to see that and feel that more.
16:42
And I do think it comes to show different aspects of how people deal with that.
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Some people need just to sit in a corner and chill and have a break and like
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a meditation session before they can get back into things.
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Some people like to like talk it out and have that connection where they're,
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you know, super chatty, you know, and having to separate those personalities
17:02
and learn the way everyone deals with that adversity is definitely something
17:06
that's coming to play this season.
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And I think we have a very new team, very unique team.
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You know, there's a lot of players we haven't gotten the opportunity to really
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learn and dive into all this yet because this is their first semester with us.
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So being able to navigate that and figure out what they need and what we can
17:22
give them as teammates to help them be their best while still maintaining our own level of self.
17:28
You know, it's been definitely interesting to kind of navigate.
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And even as like a coaching staff, I think when you have so many different personalities,
17:36
you're struggling to figure out what the motivation is for them.
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How do you get them to be fully bought in when you have some people that are
17:44
motivated so polar opposite and differently?
17:46
How do you navigate that and get everyone on the same page before games even? in. Yeah.
17:52
So this is exactly kind of a topic I want to talk about and kind of dive into
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your experiences, your experiences with teammates with different personalities
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and overall, like as a player listening to this podcast,
18:06
like what can you learn from that?
18:08
And the reason this all started. So a little bit of backstory.
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I was doing a recovery session in the weight room yesterday and I was with people
18:16
that I would say here are like my closest circle.
18:19
And one of the girls looked at me and we were talking about
18:22
whatever and she goes Sam I would have hated
18:25
you if I met you two years ago just blatantly said that to my
18:27
face I was like oh okay I don't really know how to take this information and
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she's like I just I don't know if I've ever fully dealt with someone like you
18:40
that I enjoyed being around and I was like once again not helping I don't know
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how to take this information.
18:46
And we kind of started talking about, you know, it is so fascinating to me about
18:54
how personalities work.
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And the thing I still am yet to figuring out is, as a team, theoretically,
19:02
and in most situations, especially in a high level college and a professional
19:05
environment, you have the same goals, you know, you all want your team to be
19:08
successful at the end of the day.
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Obviously, there's individual goals, obviously, there's other factors,
19:12
but But you would love to believe, and I truly do believe, that everyone in
19:16
my locker room wants this team to be as successful as possible.
19:20
The weird thing that I am learning and figuring out as I go and as I grow up
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is how different of a path and a map we all take to get to the same goal.
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And I know that that's obvious. Of course, everyone thinks differently. Duh, Sam.
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And we've even covered it on this podcast. We talked about Enneagrams about
19:38
a year ago and personalities and things like that.
19:41
But I'm learning that there's such a different level to it.
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And I don't think it's something I've really experienced until I've chose to dive in.
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And it got me thinking, I'm going to go on my soapbox for a little bit.
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And I literally like this was keeping me up last night at like one in the morning.
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I was talking to Trey about this.
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Like, I have been labeled my whole life as a tryhard. Like that was like the
20:03
first name I remember almost getting like bullied at when I was in middle school
20:07
is that we would run this lap before gym every day in middle school and I would
20:11
try to beat all the boys because I was a tryhard.
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And I think a lot of that is growing up.
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Like it's a little bit of nature and nurture like i'm sure it's in
20:20
my blood in my dna somewhere but also like growing up
20:23
that's what my parents you know kind of taught me that's what i
20:26
was praised for rewarded for and then
20:29
as i was that try hard for me that's how i got results that's how i got good
20:35
at soccer i genuinely do not know that i would i do not think i pretty much
20:40
know i would not be a professional player if i wasn't a try hard i wasn't naturally
20:44
talented or whatever And by that,
20:46
I mean like doing my own practice sessions, going to the gym,
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you know, signing up to always being the one first in the door,
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just like little things like that.
20:54
And I was talking to one of my teammates about this and she looked at me and
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she goes, Sam, if I lived your life, I would be so exhausted.
21:02
I would have quit soccer by the time I was 15.
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And it's interesting that she said that because she's a top-level pro.
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She's played professional soccer for the last seven years of her life.
21:12
You know, she's a fantastic player. She's on the Swedish national team.
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And I always thought, I was just raised to think that, like,
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I remember thinking when I went to college, everyone's going to be a tryhard.
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Everyone's going to be like me. Everyone's going to think like me.
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And I learned very quickly that wasn't true.
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And then I even, kind of frankly, after I graduated college,
21:30
now that I'm a pro, everyone's going to be like me. Everyone's going to be like
21:34
this, try hard and go crazy.
21:36
Also, I've learned that's not true. And I think it's just kind of opening my
21:40
eyes to this perspective of like, I need to be a try hard because that's what I need to do.
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And I am confident that that is what I need to do. And I really don't give two
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craps if you do that or don't because you need to do what you need to do.
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But one of the most interesting things about developing as a soccer player is
21:57
not doing what you think you should do or what other person's doing or what
22:01
person B is doing or what your teammates doing, but it's knowing what you need to do as a human.
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And I'm pretty sure my entire soccer career, I've just been figuring out what
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I need to do as a human to be successful in life and what that is for me and
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learning that. And I don't think I've understood that until I became 23.
22:17
So that's like a really big topic. And I know I just got in my soapbox a bit,
22:20
but I guess what are your first impressions to like thinking like that or anything,
22:25
you know, in that regard?
22:26
Yeah, I do think it's really interesting because I think growing up,
22:31
I was definitely a try hard too in a lot of aspects where I always,
22:36
you know, I was super competitive, super competitive, wanted to win,
22:40
wanted to do all of the things.
22:42
But I was never the kid who really like, I would always sign up for all the
22:48
extra training sessions.
22:49
I would always, I think a lot of it was naivety too. I didn't know other people
22:54
were going out in their front yard and doing extra work.
22:56
It wasn't part of my conversation with family or friends.
23:00
No one around me was doing it. I didn't see it. I didn't even really know it was an option.
23:06
And, you know, I think I did a lot, you know, I did three sports,
23:10
I did extra sessions and all that.
23:12
Not that I was a lazy kid by any means, but I wasn't necessarily a try hard
23:18
or the way I look at you, or I would say you're very similar to Justina Gaynor
23:21
on our team where like they knew what to do.
23:25
They're very technical and deliberate with the way they go about things in their life and all of it.
23:30
And I thought that I would have been very behind because of I didn't have that
23:36
growing up when I got to college and that everyone was going to be more similar to you and Justina.
23:42
And that was the only way to have success was to be like you and Justina.
23:45
And that there was just this one path laid out, you know, and I think the path
23:50
we're all preached to is very similar to the one you thought where everyone takes.
23:55
And I don't think I really realized until this year when we started having conversations
23:59
about how big the soccer world is and how many opportunities there are that
24:02
there was a route for me to go ahead and do these things because I am nowhere.
24:06
I'm not like you or Justina. I don't do or think about things the same way where
24:11
I feel like it's so deliberate every day.
24:15
Every decision you make is based off of this idea to achieve perfection as an athlete.
24:22
And it's all consuming in that route.
24:26
I think me and you know Meg Hughes on our
24:29
team are very similar where we go around and you need to
24:31
have some sort of separation from it or you know
24:34
we approach training sessions or approach games very very differently and I
24:40
think we both had an extreme amount of success and I didn't know that was a
24:44
path and I always felt like I was behind or missing something or that there
24:47
wasn't a route to really achieve that elite level for me because I was so different
24:52
than I think the route everyone kind of preaches.
24:54
So similar to what you're saying, but in a different aspect in the way I think
24:57
it's impacted me in my career and my path and my ideas with how successful you
25:03
can be without doing the same things that everyone else is doing.
25:09
And I think there really is only one way that everyone preaches for how it should
25:12
be, which is the try hard, as you called it, aspect of the very deliberate,
25:17
very all-consuming route that I think a lot of pros take.
25:23
I do think it's probably easier to have success if you go that route because
25:28
you've lived it your entire life and you've had this kind of straight line focus
25:32
for what you want and what your desires are.
25:34
But yeah, it took me a long time to figure out that's not the only route and
25:38
that what I was doing wasn't lazy and that I wasn't a bad athlete and that I
25:42
wasn't, you know, all of these negative negative things that I thought and that
25:47
I was, I didn't want it enough.
25:49
And you're questioning your love for the game because I just can't,
25:51
I don't work the same way.
25:53
If I were to do the way you and Justina and Kelly Severini, who's listened to
25:58
this podcast, iKelly, but if I were to function that way, I would burn out.
26:03
Like I wouldn't have the love or desire for the game I do.
26:07
I just, I couldn't function that way. And it took me forever to realize that
26:10
that doesn't mean I'm I'm a bad athlete. It just means I'm different than you guys.
26:14
See, that's exactly the point that I wanted to get to.
26:17
So I'm very, like I said, I wouldn't do this without telling Jordan anything,
26:21
but I'm having this conversation and we kind of, me and the girls that I'm having
26:26
it with, who I would say are way more like you, Jordan, than like me.
26:30
And we start talking about first impressions and this idea of like,
26:34
where are your first impressions of the three of us that were having this conversation accurate?
26:40
And one of the girls looked at me and she goes, oh, I knew everything I needed
26:43
to know about you the first time I met you, Sam. And I'm like, what does that mean?
26:47
And she was like, you just like, I outwardly portrayed everything about myself.
26:51
I think you could have coffee with me and immediately know that like,
26:55
I am an extremely type A person.
26:57
I like everything organized. I have every detail of my life planned.
27:00
You know, soccer is everything to me. So like, I'm going to do everything to get there.
27:04
And boom, like I am in a lot of regards, that typical idea for success.
27:10
And there's two parts of this I want to hit.
27:13
Number one, for those of us like me, you know, the people out there that are
27:17
that typical, this is what we
27:20
are preached to, because I would completely agree with you in that regard.
27:23
It can be freaking lonely. only. I talked to Trey about this last night,
27:28
and I genuinely asked him. This man is my husband.
27:30
I have to assume he likes being around me.
27:34
But I asked him, I go, do you like the try-hard aspect of me?
27:39
Because I can understand how being around me and how some of my teammates,
27:45
even frankly, being around me, can find me exhausting.
27:49
And I can also understand how parts of who I am can come off like I'm arrogant
27:55
or like I'm a little cocky or like I kind of feel like I'm full of myself.
28:00
And that's what this conversation went to because one person said,
28:03
yeah, I know everything I need to know about you.
28:05
And the other girl looked at me dead in the face and goes, yeah,
28:08
I thought I would hate you.
28:09
I thought you were a bitch.
28:12
I thought you were going to be cocky. I thought you were entitled.
28:17
And it's kind of taken me knowing people and being so close to people that are so different than me.
28:22
Because I think in my time in college, I didn't have people,
28:26
I had people that saw me and maybe even looked at me like all this day, like a role model.
28:30
Once I got became like a senior or fifth year or captain, I was the captain,
28:34
but I was never the friend.
28:35
I was the teammate, but I was never really a close friend.
28:38
And I think people naturally push people like me away because we do have our
28:44
stuff so figured out individualistically that it looks like we don't need other people.
28:49
So that was my one experience is I feel like it's extremely lonely and isolating
28:53
because we can be exhausting to be around. And I'm aware of that.
28:57
On the other hand, I can understand where I have been judgmental,
29:02
where I have seen people and misjudged them. I can think about one of my best friends here.
29:06
It has taken me a long time to be friends with her and understand that she's not lazy.
29:11
And like, we had this conversation and I looked at her, I go, I thought you were lazy.
29:16
Cause to me, I'm in practice, I'm hitting 100 hard, hard. I'm going into full tackles and you're not.
29:21
And I'm confused as to why you're not. And she's like, well,
29:25
I know for my body, I can't practice that hard, but then also play that hard.
29:29
Like I've been a pro, you know, for seven years, I'm 27 years old. I can't do that anymore.
29:34
That's not how my body works. That's not what my brain needs.
29:37
And I was like, wait, there's another option. like you
29:41
were thinking about this i go to the extra weight session
29:44
she doesn't i assume she's lazy i'm there
29:46
why is she not oh well she's actually understands
29:50
that that's not what she emotionally needs right now and that she needs to step
29:53
away from soccer because she is getting burnt out and she is getting fizzled
29:56
out so she needs to just remove herself and i think that people like me you
30:01
know your try hards we can be lonely but we also can be judgmental i will 100%
30:06
owned that I have judged so many people in my life on first impressions,
30:09
probably half of my college teammates, if I look back and I truly think about
30:13
that first impression and how I let that sit and put them into a box.
30:17
Because I'm doing extra work. Why the heck isn't she? That's not fair.
30:20
I work harder. I'm better.
30:22
I want it more. Those are all things that have come into my mind because that's
30:26
the way I'm wired. I'm doing this. Why aren't you?
30:29
And I think I'm realizing now as a pro that I can act differently than every
30:35
other girl in my roster, but we can have the same goals.
30:37
And that is not necessarily a bad thing.
30:40
So my question to you, Jordan, is how do you get past that first impression?
30:44
How do you actually take a second to go a bit deeper instead of me just saying,
30:49
hey, Jordan, you don't want to do the extra work. I don't care if you're burnt
30:52
out. I don't care if you have school.
30:53
Soccer is clearly not that important to you. You're lazy. Put you in the box, close it, lock it up.
30:58
Yeah, this is a really interesting conversation. And I And I wish we had Justina on because I think...
31:05
She came in to a program that was bottom out.
31:10
You know, they didn't have much to really strive for. They were tired.
31:14
They weren't winning. And the way they were a party team or a party school.
31:20
And she came in with this desire to work and this all-consuming,
31:26
loving passion for the game that no one had seen.
31:28
And this just, we've never seen someone like her. like someone who was all bought
31:36
in and knew what she wanted for such a young age, you know?
31:39
And for me personally, like I've never, I was considered the hardest worker
31:42
in any room I was in until I got to college.
31:45
But my hard work was different because it was a mix between multiple sports.
31:50
My hard work was you watch me go and play a basketball game where I laid it
31:56
all out there and I packed up my bags while they're giving the pregame or the postgame speech.
32:01
And then I'm running to my soccer practice and doing that.
32:05
That's what my hard work looked like, which was very different than I think
32:08
you or Justina's, where it was all bought in on soccer, personal trainings,
32:12
very deliberate with what you were doing in a soccer aspect.
32:15
I was a hardworking athlete. I don't know if I was a hardworking soccer player in that same way.
32:21
For me, it was this weird thing where all of a sudden,
32:25
I'm questioning my core beliefs
32:28
that I was a hardworking person that I was you
32:31
know resilient and disciplined and all of these things and
32:35
I think for me it was hard to grasp because I'm looking at Justina and it looks
32:39
so different but it looks like the way we were always told it's supposed to
32:43
look you know she was an elite soccer player and she was all bought in in the
32:49
soccer aspect and I think for a lot of people people,
32:52
what it began to look like was this teacher's pet almost, this suck up.
32:57
She was in there having these meetings with the coaches and I didn't even know
33:03
that was an option to go do extra film or scout. What do you mean?
33:06
What are you looking at? What are you doing in there? You're talking about the
33:10
game and I didn't know that was a part of the game.
33:13
I didn't even know there was numbers involved in the game. And I think a lot
33:17
of that team, the way they were coached and the way they had played for several
33:23
years under the Tom and Tammy era were more similar to me.
33:25
Even though they'd already been in college, I don't think they knew what it
33:29
was supposed to look like or what any of this was going to do.
33:32
And I think it was, you know, I'm speculating her, and I would love to have
33:36
her come on and agree or disagree with me, but I'm sure it was lonely at times
33:41
because none of us understood her.
33:43
And I think misunderstanding in that aspect of what she was doing and why she
33:47
was doing it wasn't to be a teacher's pet. It was so that she could be the best she could be.
33:53
But we just we didn't understand that. And I think it took time to get through that.
33:58
It took time to know who she was as a person.
34:02
And I think even now there's moments where I hang out with her and she feels
34:05
she's I mean, I look up to her.
34:08
Like Justina is someone I look up to and I would love to be more like.
34:12
Like she's so disciplined and I respect the hell out of her.
34:15
And I think with that, there's moments where the way she goes about life seems
34:19
so robotic and so disciplined that you forget she's human.
34:24
And sometimes I have these conversations with her and, you know,
34:26
I'll call her or she'll just like rant or she'll be going through something
34:30
or she's doing something.
34:31
And in that moment, like you take a step back and you realize like,
34:34
as crazy as it sounds, how human
34:36
she is, you know, that she is not this rollback going through things.
34:41
I think it takes some of those moments sometimes for you to take a step back and really realize it.
34:48
I think for us, a level of maybe jealousy or resentment to the way she was going
34:52
about things because we didn't understand it and we wanted it.
34:55
We wanted the same goals and it looked so different. That path was a level of
34:58
understanding that turned into respect with the way she just kept going with it.
35:04
And more Justinas came to of the team like I said Kelly Severini is one of the
35:08
hardest working players I've ever met in my entire life and you know they come
35:12
into this program and I think they change your perception.
35:17
Of what it is by by having those conversations and being friends with them and
35:21
making them human instead of these robots who are going through this this path
35:27
that is so insanely hard and difficult and straight line,
35:33
you know, discipline with it. And it just.
35:37
I think it takes time and it takes conversation to get through those original kind of judgments.
35:42
And I think it took more time than probably is fair to them or that they would
35:48
have liked to see as this program changed around and we learned what this is
35:52
supposed to be and we learned about them and what the paths look like.
35:58
But yeah I would love to I would love
36:00
to have her on and have her opinion and thoughts about this because this
36:03
is a really really interesting conversation and topic that you know I didn't
36:07
get prepped for so I'm like trying to work through it now for all these these
36:11
thoughts but it's something I haven't really thought that deeply of you know
36:15
I've you recognize that there's different aspects to the team but how deep it
36:19
goes in the you know your experience versus mine I'm sure is completely different.
36:23
So it's really interesting to kind of dissect here.
36:26
Yeah. I mean, okay. First of all, you just hit on so many points and that's what I think.
36:31
Like, I don't think, of course you are like, oh yeah, everyone on the team has
36:35
different personalities.
36:36
Oh yeah. Like we need to embrace everyone's personalities.
36:39
But I feel like that's as deep as the conversation typically goes.
36:42
It's like, yes, we're different. That's great. Move forward.
36:46
But I don't think you truly really understand like how intricately different people are.
36:52
And like, I don't know, it might just sound so obvious, but like having these
36:55
conversations has really opened my eyes to a lot of this.
36:59
And like, one of the main reasons I wanted to talk to you on the podcast is
37:02
because I think this is a conversation that 15, 16 year old Sam needed to hear.
37:07
That frankly, when I was skipping a high school dance, I don't know,
37:12
to like go miss and go to a soccer game, that the The person that chose not
37:15
to make that decision isn't inherently bad because I think it goes on different spectrums.
37:21
First of all, how you just said people may have viewed Justina as a suck up or a teacher's pet.
37:27
First of all, I have gotten that my entire life. And the reason that this conversation
37:31
actually started is because we
37:33
are getting a new coach and we were talking about how we're going to act.
37:37
You know, what is the new coach? What is like that relationship like when you have a new coach?
37:41
And one girl pointed her fingers at me goes
37:44
oh well sam's gonna kiss that was the statement and
37:47
so the fact that you said that that's literally that was what everyone's like
37:51
well sam's a suck up so of course sam's gonna be that one and i think for people
37:57
like me we get presented in this way of you're the suck up you're entitled you know you're this.
38:07
But I think a lot of people have that perception without understanding why we're like that.
38:12
And, you know, obviously, I feel like for so many of the questions,
38:14
you could be like, but why? But why? Like, why?
38:17
And I feel like when you dig into that, why? When you have those actual conversations
38:22
of why I need to feel like everything in my life is so laid out and why I need to be so detailed.
38:29
In so many ways, I think I'm envious of people like you that don't have to do
38:34
it. And I think for me, like, yes, it might be the standard of what is proven
38:39
and preached to be successful.
38:42
That also being said, David Deani is literally texting me. Sorry.
38:48
See, like, this is our point, Sam.
38:51
Normal people don't do this. Leave that in.
38:55
Like when you understand the
38:57
why of like, I don't think I would be a pro if I didn't be the try hard.
39:02
I wouldn't be good at soccer. And I don't think I would have been successful
39:05
in college. And that's not to say like being a pro is the only outlet or that's
39:09
the only way to find success.
39:10
But for me, that was my goal. And if I didn't do it this way,
39:13
it wouldn't have happened for me.
39:15
I also like, I don't succeed at soccer when I take that step back.
39:19
You know, like you're the kind of person potentially, I don't want to read too
39:22
much into you, that when you, you know, we talked about it yesterday,
39:25
like sometimes, or last week, like sometimes when you're feeling burnt out,
39:28
you got to dig in more. Sometimes you got to know when to pull yourself out.
39:32
I like, I, when I'm going to practice and I'm not focused on practice and I'm
39:35
a little bit, not, not focused, but like a little bit looser, I don't play good.
39:40
I like being rigid. When I have a game plan, I need to know specifics.
39:44
I am so black and white. I want to know everything about the person I'm defending.
39:48
I want to know everything about the tactics and how we're going to break them down.
39:51
I'm mathematically in my brain in soccer being like, they're playing in a 4-4-2.
39:56
We're playing in a 4-3-2-1.
39:59
Mathematically, that means that my pockets should be here and here.
40:02
And I need to have this angle to do. I'm thinking through every decision.
40:07
Whereas I look at a player like you and you're a lot more flow slow and creative
40:11
and rhythmic and like reading movements.
40:15
I'm going to try this. It's not going to work. OK, I'm going to try this.
40:17
And I think there's something so special about that. And so this is where it
40:22
just gets so interesting of like you could not operate like me,
40:25
but I also could never operate like you.
40:27
Yet we're on the same team. We have the same goals and we have the same ambitions.
40:31
Yeah, I think a couple of things. When people say there's different personalities
40:37
on the the team, I think the general thought is that you have introverts and you have extroverts.
40:43
There's different personalities in the team where some people are girly girls
40:48
and some people are more tomboys.
40:49
It goes very surface level with that.
40:51
You don't think about how different they are and the way they handle day-to-day
40:58
life and what drives them and the way they function as a as a human being in
41:03
everything that they do, right?
41:05
It goes very, very surface level to that statement.
41:10
And I think the way, like,
41:14
I keep using Justina as an example because I think she's the best one I've been
41:18
able to see in my time as a collegiate player that she really,
41:23
she had to go through it, I think, a little bit to really change the perception of it.
41:27
But Justina, the difference between a teacher's pet or a suck up to where she
41:31
is now, where she is a leader and someone everyone has immense amount of respect
41:35
for and kind of examples how they go about things based off of her.
41:39
Where before my freshman, sophomore year, nobody was going in that coach's office.
41:43
Now everyone does because that's how it works.
41:47
Was you had to see her work hard on the field.
41:49
She's not a teacher's pet. She's not playing because she's in the office all the time.
41:53
She's playing because she worked harder than anyone and
41:56
everyone else around her to get to that spot and you had to see it and
41:59
you had to really watch her have that
42:03
sort of discipline in order to I think change that perception
42:06
of her but yeah I agree with
42:08
me like I try to learn almost as I've tried
42:11
to do it your way and I failed miserably where I'm going
42:14
into scout and I try to know all the details of
42:17
it and it does not work I'm overthinking in
42:20
a game I work best when there are zero thoughts
42:23
up here and I have I can walk off
42:26
of a game going I have no idea what just happened but it was I felt good you
42:30
know and I think I learned the very basics of what their back line looks like
42:34
what my movement needs to be as a forward in terms of press and basic you know
42:39
I think goalie standards if we're shooting low and hard or if you know they're
42:42
bobbling balls and that's it that's the extent of my knowledge going into a scout because I play
42:46
better off of flow and movement and kind of vibes, I guess, out there.
42:52
I'm like, I don't know, there's a free space here. Let me run here and try it out.
42:55
And I've tried it your way and I learned it doesn't work for me.
42:58
And I think it took me a long time to realize that that didn't mean I was lazy.
43:01
It meant I was different than you.
43:02
And I think the way, I don't know if a deeper understanding about why you function
43:07
that way would change the initial reaction, because in order to have that conversation,
43:12
you already need to be past that.
43:14
If I think a teacher's better, try hard or whatever, I don't know if I'm going
43:19
to necessarily seek you out to
43:20
have these deep conversations about why you function the way that you do.
43:23
But I do think that once you get past that and you're trying to understand your
43:29
teammates, the way they function or what they need, that yeah, absolutely.
43:32
Learning what drives people and what motivates them in order to be able to pull
43:37
out the best from them and understand them more at all,
43:41
I think is a huge part in order to be the best team and the best teammates you
43:46
can be and really work the best way you can off of each other.
43:51
I don't know how you would necessarily go about that, you know,
43:54
and telling everyone the way that you function on a deeper level.
43:58
But I'm sure that those conversations would help understand one better and understand
44:02
what drives you in order to get rid of those preconceived notions of either
44:06
laziness or teacher's pet or whatever it may be that you had thought about each other.
44:11
Right. I mean, so the thing is, like, we're humans. And when we meet people,
44:15
the first thing we do is we judge impressions.
44:17
We make, you know, we put people in boxes. We see people a certain way.
44:20
That is a natural tendency as a human.
44:23
And I completely agree with you that there has to be some kind of figuring out
44:29
how do we explain personality and motivations.
44:34
I think you hit the nail on the head when we hear like everyone on the team
44:38
has a different personality. At first, you're taught she likes to talk.
44:42
She's more quiet. She is a girly girl. She's a tomboy, just like you said.
44:47
And I think, you know, when I got to college, we got a little deeper,
44:51
you know, like I said, I, last year we talked about the Enneagram and they're a type eight.
44:55
So they're like more in control and they like control.
44:58
They're a type two. So they're a helper, whatever it is. And that,
45:02
that started the conversation.
45:03
I think that was a good place to start, but I'm realizing more and more that
45:08
the conversation is so much deeper than that because it hits what you just said. What drives you?
45:13
What motivates you? What has your soccer journey been like?
45:18
And what value do you place soccer in your life that really expresses?
45:25
I think half the reason growing up, people thought I was a trier was they didn't
45:28
understand the value that soccer had on my life.
45:31
And the goals that my life had that were tied to my soccer.
45:35
So when I was doing things that other people weren't doing, they didn't understand
45:39
that that's because I had goals that they didn't have.
45:41
And that doesn't make anyone wrong. That doesn't make anyone less than,
45:44
but that just means that we have different aspirations.
45:47
And I think that that understanding of what different personality means all
45:52
the way down to a youth level could have really changed my experiences growing
45:57
up because I didn't have friends on my club team.
45:58
I did not. I'll fully say it. And it took me a long time to have friends on my college team.
46:03
And even a lot of people I look back in my college, I had a great experience
46:06
in college. Don't get me wrong.
46:08
Bluntly, I've talked to like three girls since graduating. And that's not bad.
46:12
I'm not mad about that. But I'm realizing now about how many of my connections
46:16
throughout college were also superficial.
46:19
And I thought they were deep at the time. But I think it's because I did not
46:23
have conversations like this.
46:24
And I did not truly understand. I didn't take the time to not judge them past
46:29
my first impression as much as they didn't take that time for me.
46:32
And it's just a very interesting place that I realize now looking back,
46:38
A, I have put so many people in boxes, but people have also put me in a box
46:43
that I don't know that they understand why I'm there.
46:45
Or that because I'm there doesn't mean that they also need to be there.
46:49
And that doesn't really matter.
46:51
At the end of the day, we all have the same goals and the aspirations and that's just
46:54
it's really opened up my eyes to understanding like now
46:56
that I have friends here that are so different from me that I
47:00
don't really know that I ever have had that before in my life yeah well
47:03
the first thing I'm hearing is that we're going to be best friends forever now well
47:07
that but yeah yeah I do think it's really it brings up a really interesting
47:13
conversation and part of it where at what level do we have to dig deeper to
47:19
have this this level of misunderstanding that then turns into judgment, right?
47:24
And how do you get past that? Because at the end of the day,
47:26
you made it through your club team and you made it through your college team
47:30
and you worked just fine. You had success.
47:33
But how much more successful do you think you could have been as a team, as a program?
47:37
How much more efficient could you have been as a teammate if you knew what drives
47:40
people to a point where you didn't have this level of misunderstanding,
47:44
if you weren't judging each other?
47:47
And it really is, I think, such an important conversation.
47:50
And like I got all these bells going off in my head now, like how I'm going
47:54
to start having all these conversations with my teammates, because I think it
47:57
is really, really important.
47:59
And you talk about the levels of connection you have with with your teammates
48:04
and how you think you're going to be best friends with someone forever.
48:07
And they turn out to not be as close after graduation or things of that nature.
48:11
Year, I do think this is the start of deep conversation that would lead to kind
48:16
of those deeper connections.
48:17
And at the end of the day, talent speaks so highly as to how a program is going to perform.
48:24
But I do think the difference between being great and being elite has nothing
48:28
to do with technical ability.
48:29
It has everything to do with internal drive and motivation and the belief a
48:33
team has that they are going to do everything they can for each other and to
48:37
win and just this mentality of it.
48:41
And when you have people who understand each other fully and what their mentality
48:46
is, and they're all bought into not only the team and the idea of winning,
48:51
but bought into each other, I do think that's how you become elite.
48:54
And I think these are really important conversations to have.
48:57
And it's something that, again, you can identify that people have different
49:00
identities or different characteristics,
49:02
but to go this deep into it and what drives them, I think is really interesting
49:07
conversation to have and something that I think Michigan State is going to have
49:10
to start implementing now that we're thinking about it and talking about it.
49:14
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head on so many regards.
49:18
And I'm happy that we got to discuss this. And like I said, this is something that I'm 23 years old.
49:23
I'm realizing also this year, I've played soccer for 20 years of my life,
49:26
you know, and which is terrifying to say.
49:29
And I've I've had just so many different experiences and as you know,
49:33
so many of other people and,
49:35
I'm just now learning this. And who knows, I might have another life realization.
49:40
Six months from now about all of this.
49:42
But this is just, I don't know, it really opened my eyes to how people operate
49:46
and why that's important for a team.
49:48
So thank you for coming in. I know I really just threw you on a blind side that
49:53
we were going to have a little chat about this, but I really think it was so interesting.
49:57
Yeah, yeah. And I think it even goes deeper to
50:00
like your idea of when you texted me that we were going
50:03
to maybe talk about different personalities on the the teams in my
50:06
head I'm thinking like all right like what are
50:08
different personalities on a team okay like introvert extrovert
50:12
you've got like the people who you know are dancing and the people who are more
50:16
quiet like the very very surface level things that come to my head when we're
50:21
going to talk on our podcast about it which I think just goes to show like the
50:24
point of all this that we don't dig deeper into these thoughts or these conversations
50:28
with it so I'm glad you had this idea.
50:31
I think this is a really interesting conversation and definitely something like
50:34
I said that, you know, as the bells and whistles go off in my head that we're
50:38
definitely gonna have to start implementing at Michigan State because I do think
50:40
it is important conversations to have.
50:42
I love it. I love it. Well, speaking of Michigan State, what is on your slate?
50:47
What is on the agenda this week for you guys?
50:49
Oh, yeah. Big one this week. Nice rivalry game. Our number one talked about
50:54
team probably on the podcast with Michigan.
50:56
We play them Saturday at seven. So So one game this week, no game Thursday,
51:02
and then nice Saturday nighttime game. So it should be an amazing crowd.
51:06
I'm really, really excited. It's always an amazing environment to be a part
51:10
of and just kind of like sit there and take it all in after the games and be
51:14
like, all these people showed up to watch us play.
51:18
It's my favorite. It's one of my favorite games. And I think it's the highlight
51:23
of my career. Probably last year, I had a nice little brace against them.
51:26
So I'm hoping to maybe like replicate some things. I need some like good mojo
51:29
going into it or like, you know, calling on the soccer gods here.
51:34
So I love it. Well, we're sending all of the mojo your way. And my game of the
51:38
week to watch is a matchup between Penn State and Rutgers.
51:42
You know, we've talked about how Rutgers has one of the top defenses in the
51:45
country. They are in that top four chunk at the top of the Big Ten standings right now.
51:50
And Penn State, of course, a ranked team, always competitive.
51:53
So I feel like Penn State's offense versus Rutgers defense is definitely going
51:57
to create a battle that I am excited to see the final results of.
52:00
Absolutely. And at this point in the season, like you start looking at the chart.
52:04
So we're hoping Penn State pulls out with the win here now.
52:07
Sounds fantastic. Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening.
52:11
Thank you so much for being a part of the big life. You know,
52:13
we couldn't do this without all of your love and support and little things.
52:16
I'm still looking at applications for hobbies, working on them.
52:20
So keep sending requests my way.
52:21
I'll keep you updated in that journey as I navigate the hobbies.
52:25
And as As always, thank you for spending time with us on Big Life.