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How to Bounce Back After Job Loss · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cosy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Today, I am delighted to be chatting with Eleanor Tweddle, who is the founder of Another Door, where you are encouraged to rethink work and see change as an opportunity for growth and to do something different.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Eleanor coaches and mentors people to discover their thing, develop their thing and create their thing, and she is also the author of the book why Losing your Job Could Be the Best Thing that Ever Happened to you.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, eleanor, for joining me today, because I think it's such an important episode, particularly this year.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: We're recording this, you know, towards the end of 2024.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: It's been a bit of a bloodbath, with redundancies and job losses, a lot of hiring freezes.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: So I know that this episode will really resonate with people in the momentzes.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So I know that this episode will really resonate with people, um, in the moment.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So I know that you're going to give some tips on how you can pick yourself up after job loss or redundancy and why it could be the best thing that ever happened to you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much for joining me today thank you very much for having me and I'm very impressed that was.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: It's almost like a tongue twister, isn't it?
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I got it all out.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I think I only had one like miss um, miss, speak um, so talk me through another door.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: What prompted you to found another door?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: So, uh, 20 years of corporate life doing all sorts of things, had that uh call or meeting that we uh dread, put in the diary, um, and I had a little bit of an interesting sort of uh an experience with being made redundant.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So there was lots of people being made redundant at the time, as usual, as happens in corporate.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: That's not an unusual thing, so.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: But what was happening was, um, we're all getting called in, told the jobs at risk and then having our coffee and cake afterwards in a good chat and you know about life and how miserable we all were.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: That's kind of how it goes.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: My job actually wasn't really strictly put under redundancy.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit of a strange one where they kind of said, oh we're tweaking your role and you've got to reapply for it.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: And at the time, on a personal level, I had just had a miscarriage, uh, we were trying again for a baby.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: But you know, obviously just coming out of that was still quite raw and you know, working through it, um, also coming up to sort of being 43, 44 in that age of like, oh, my god, you know what is life, what am I doing?
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So there was a lot going on and it was just a couple of weeks before christmas and I just thought I'm gonna have to go for this role and apply for my role, even though I just want to tell them to stick it, if I'm going to have to go for this role and apply for my role, even though I just want to tell them to stick it, if I'm going to be very honest with it, because I just felt like I was being treated horrible.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: But I went for it and they called me and said unfortunately you haven't got it because we've given it to someone else with more experience.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: All of this experience was starting to really kind of get to me because I was doing the job like who's got more experience?
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So there's all these sort of you know, like gray areas starting to make you feel really terrible about yourself and what am I doing with life?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Why don't they want me?
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very personal.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So even though in my book I say redundancy is not personal, I felt that that was was well, it was, it was personal.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, okay, that's where we got to.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I remember sitting at the desk in an open plan office and somebody came up and there was a couple of us all sort of chit-chatting, as I say, you know you do your chit-chatting and coffee and cake and consoling each other.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Someone came up and said oh well, you know, guys, when one door closes, another door opens.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So you know, you never know what's going to happen next Wrong moment.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: You know, absolutely wrong moment.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We've literally just been told the news.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: That person still kept their job and happily skipped off back to their desk and I just remember us all looking at each other going are you joking?
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Like you know I'm not going to swear, but you know lots of like I'm absolutely joking.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So I remember driving home in the car just feeling really kind of upset about it all and like, confused, and thinking another door opens.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: But it stuck in my head and I thought hang on a minute, who's losing out on this?
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: You're getting all angry and upset, you're losing out.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Who's losing out on this?
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: You're getting all angry and upset, you're losing out.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: And I actually started a blog a couple of weeks later, started a blog called another door, embraced this kind of cliche that I was given the gift of cliche and thought stop getting across about it, embrace it and thought well, what if it is?
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: How do you make redundancy a good thing?
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: How do you do it?
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Because I'm not in the place right now to be bothering with that.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: So I started writing about it, um, and it was a blog.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I'd never done anything like that before.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I'd been in corporate all these years never.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: What were you doing in corporate?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: I was um corporate comms, so I was all right.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, you would have been good at writing it was, yes, I was a writer, so I was internal comms and I'd done a bit of external um, the actual job I was majoring for was actually running the graduate program, because when I'd come back off maternity leave, I didn't go back into corporate comms, I was running the graduate program, the apprentice program, leadership development, just loving life Like it was a whole new world.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: That I was like, wow, I'm absolutely loving this.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: So they'd actually given me sort of a different role coming back from maternity um, and that's why I think it hurt, because I was actually really loving what I was doing.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, but yeah, started this random blog, just literally like on wordpress, which I had no clue what to do.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: It was out of control before I even started it, uh, and and it went from there.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: So you self-taught on wordpress oh, you know, and it went from there, so you're self-taught on wordpress oh, you know, I'm not sure if I could say self-taught, you figured it out.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Are you like me?
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Stumbled in the dark probably.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth, it was out of trial and error it was.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: It felt like it was out of control.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's maybe different now, but you know, this was kind of eight years ago, I remember like really inappropriate adverts coming onto my blog, yeah, you know, because I pressed the wrong button and you know things like that and, but but it worked at the time, you know it.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: It sounds stupid, you know it was only eight years ago, but at the time how did it work?
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: would you mean it provided an outlet for you yeah, exactly, it was an outlet.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: It was writing.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I started putting it on LinkedIn.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I hadn't used LinkedIn for a very long time in fact, I don't think I'd ever used it because I I was the one that used to shut it down and be like, oh, these people selling stuff to me.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So I deliberately didn't use LinkedIn because I always had titles that people wanted to sell stuff.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So actually I wasn't on LinkedIn very much.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: But I thought, no, embrace this, start writing about it.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: And I literally just put on LinkedIn, like what do you do and you've lost your job and you don't want to really do what you've always done or do something different, or how do you make it a good thing, I don't know.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And people just started sending little messages reading the blog saying, yeah, I've lost my job and we just started like a little community.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's how it started.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: But I had no clue where this was going or what it was doing.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: How did you overcome that?
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Because a lot of people get very nervous about the thought of posting on LinkedIn and some of it you know you said you've never really been on LinkedIn.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: How did you sort of square that and putting yourself out there and being quite vulnerable?
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is interesting because, coming from a corporate comms background, you're very obsessed in making the right word, getting everything precise.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: You know you spend hours on editing one 30 second video.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: This is your job, you know getting it all precise.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: And suddenly you're in this world, this online world, where, from what I was seeing, people weren't really that bothered Maybe not so much on LinkedIn.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: It's quite messy, isn't it?
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I guess, compared to what you use.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, facebook.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: At the time, you know, I was joining Facebook groups and people were like all over the place and running webinars and there was loads of typos in the PowerPoint.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh my God, what is this?
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: There was a lot to get over, but in the end I just thought, well, what is the to lose?
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: You know, I was going for interviews for jobs of the same thing that I was doing.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Getting asked that question why would you like this job?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And everything inside of me was like I don't want this job, I want my job that I've lost.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Right now, I don't want to be sat here.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: That is the real answer.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Um, but I can't think what else to do.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Obviously you can't say that in an interview, so you know you go along with it.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: But it just kept coming up.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Every time I got asked the question, why would you like this job, I was thinking I don't.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I don't want this job.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: So I had to do something and I thought, right, get over yourself, just embrace it.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: So the first thing I did was join a group for, like, local business, um, people, small business.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I've never been in anything like that before and you thought at this point, then you wanted to start a business.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: No, no, no you're just blogging, just blogging, just getting curious, just thought let's go and spend time with other people, not corporates, um, and at the time we're in Bristol because we're a military family, so we move around a lot as well, which kind of adds to the, you know, let's say, fun.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I didn't really have a local network that I knew a lot about, but we're in Bristol so I thought join a, join a business network.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: What people do, what do they talk about?
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And I went along to that.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And then I found a coach from that networking, sat down with him and he was just like, yeah, this is the, this is the online world, you could be a coach from that networking.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Sat down with him and he was just like, yeah, this is the online world, you could be a coach, you could be this, you could be that.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: And again, eight years ago, I was like what, what is going on?
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I just started just realising there's a whole world out there.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: You've got to do some work, you've got to just go.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, feel uncomfortable, I'm full of judgment, I'm full of judgment, I'm full of oh, my god, look at the state of their work.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: But who's who's winning in this and I just went for it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And then eventually, a couple of months into the redundancy, I just took a call and went right, let's do something a bit random.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: And I booked the three-day boot camp at the do lectures I don't know if you've heard the do lectures, it's like a sort of it's like a well-being, inspirational sort of talks in Wales.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, and they had a boot camp for three days and because we were in Bristol, it was kind of like a two, three hour journey just said to my husband you're gonna have to look after Baba.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I'm off for three days on a boot camp.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, I don't know why I'm doing this.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And off I went and, yeah, again, I had no idea why I was doing it.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I can't honestly say I felt so uncomfortable.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I wanted to turn around and go back, but I thought, no, you're gonna make this a good thing.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: You're going to.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: You're not going to just sit and wallow and get cross and angry like everyone else was kind of doing.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Um, or a few people were doing around me, and I thought, no, come on, let's do it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Um, and so went to this boot camp and it was full of entrepreneurs who were running all sorts of cool stuff, talking in cool ways.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I've never felt so out of place.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I was like what am I doing here?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: What?
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: am I doing here this?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: This is ridiculous.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: But I just thought well, in a few years time, what if I am meant to be here?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: You know, at the moment I'm a corporate escapee fine, and that's not what these kind of people were.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: They're all doing cool things.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: But what if, in a few years time, I can say, yeah, I founded this, I'm doing that, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: So I just started going like what if?
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: And sat with that.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: So has that been your mantra then?
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Do you think in the past eight years?
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: The what if?
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: what if it's definitely sat with me?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: You know, like what, if, just what?
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: If you try, what if you give it a go, what?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: have you got to lose?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: That's a good one, I would say that's it, you know.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Sit with the what if is definitely um a thing that I kind of always sit with and and see what comes up it sounds like you, as a lot of people, are quite conscious about being judged, and you judged yourself and you were worried that other people were judging you and some of the decisions you were making how a bit like posts on LinkedIn.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: How did you get over that judgment and fear of what other people thought of you?
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: yeah, well, you do you have.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Well, you have to catch yourself at it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: That's what I think you know.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: You have to realize that it's something that you can actually quickly get rid of it.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to stay with you, but, but you're right, and it comes up in weird ways.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I remember having a conversation with a coach and telling them what I wanted to do and having some ideas about things like oh, maybe I could write about redundancy and maybe coach people who've been made redundant and this was early on.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: It was just because I thought, well, is that a thing?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And weirdly, a person sprung into my head who I'd not seen for like years, that I used to work with and I'd probably you know, they probably didn't like me very much, if I'm going to, to be honest, but they sprung into my head when I was having that conversation, really clear, and they were like going oh, what is she doing?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Look at, oh, she's terrible, what is she doing?
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Who does she think she's?
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: It was the weirdest experience and they were really there properly laughing at me and judging, and I shared it with the coach.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I went oh, my god, I've just this really weird thing when I've just been talking to you and I feel ridiculous.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: But this.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: And she said, yeah, yeah, that's the thing, people, you know, it's like our inner voice is holding people and we think we're protecting ourselves from making a fool of ourself, but really it's just, you know, it's kind of holding us back.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: So she actually kind of helped say normalize it.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And once you realize it's normal, that an internal voice is quite a normal thing and and this kind of voice it's like what are you doing?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: You're an idiot, blah, blah.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: And instead of trying to get rid of it, you just do it anyway, like you.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: You don't try and wait, like putting two fingers up, it isn't it?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: completely do it anyways.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: That's definitely the next kind of vibe that I brought into it.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I always say do it despite it, do it despite the voice.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Whatever you're feeling, how stupid you are, do it anyways, because you're always going to gain something from doing something.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: You're never going to gain something from not.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's probably just do it anyways.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Was was becoming more of a thing so were you.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: So you were continuing to apply for jobs.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: And then what's happened?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: And what?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I was applying for jobs, um, but because we were in Bristol and then we were probably going to have to move again in a year just because of the way that it was moving, um, I realized that, god, this is going to be really tough.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So, um, I managed to find a contract.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: So in the book, what I realized is we have choices and I've tried to.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: What the book is is really, yeah, my experience, but also interviewing lots and lots of people who got made redundant which is kind of what happened on the blog like lots of people put forward their stories and I realized, oh, there's three choices going on here.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: There's not just like do the job that you've always been done, done or don't.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: There's, there's three.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: One is stick, stick to your expertise, but try and upgrade.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: You know we're trying to make this a good thing, so upgrade in some way, like find a company that you really, really want to work for and target them, or go local or flexible working, or upgrade somehow.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Or twist, which is, take your expertise but twist it so contract or coach it or train it or go in and be an associate somewhere.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: But you know you're still in your comfort zone, you know what you're doing.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: So you're twisting how you're kind of delivering it.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Or bust is that I'm going to throw everything in the air.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to start again, do something completely out of comfort zone, take the risk, but you know I really want this.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So stick, twist and bust started coming into my mind and I was thinking I think I'm just thinking that all I can do is just get another job when actually there's choices.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: So I went for twist and I went and did contracting.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: So actually keeping my comfort comfort zone, I know what I'm doing and start contracting in corporate comms.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: So that was my sort of first step into, uh, just experiencing like what would it feel like just to run my own company, but but in a really safe way yeah, absolutely.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: So you did that for how long before, and then what prompted you then to, I guess, take the leap then and go for that bust?
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: It kind of um, it was about a year, I think, of contracting and projects, but it evolved.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I think once you have an idea and you allow it space to breathe, things start to take shape and move in its own direction.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: So I was still writing the blog, still posting, still having conversations, interviewing people about redundancy.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: And that was sort of just in your own time, was it then?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, I was just sort of enjoying.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I was actually really enjoying it.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I just thought, wow, this is my little thing here.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not making no money from it at all, just do you think?
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that's as well being because you were a parent, weren't you of um a young child, and actually it was.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I felt a little bit like that.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: It's quite nice to have a thing that's yours, that you can pick up.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: It's not you just being a mum yeah, yeah, and I think that is that.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: If you kind of think, well, job losses, yes, there's some very practical stuff that you're gonna have to address, like those practical things.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I had to earn money within three months to pay bills.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I had to, you know, because I had quite, I had a good job, a big job.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: That was actually, you know, paying quite a lot of the bills and things, and I had to do that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't choices in that space, but there was choices in other spaces, like what you're saying, like okay, well, what's for me, what's the little joy bit, what's the thing that I can start playing with and creating?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I did all sorts of stuff.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I signed up for digital mum's social media very random, like I have no idea to this day why I did that, because you know I was head of corporate comms and now I'm learning how to do social media and that was really weird and and I don't know why.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: But I met really nice people, really lovely, just to like meet six people every week on a call, and so you're getting like a little bit of joy from that.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Um, and in that hour my husband used to look after the baby, yes, that was your time for you it was yeah, exactly so you find you, you know your little space in that um and again, you're listening to them and they're sitting up there in little businesses and you're getting inspiration and it it's just one step, one step, one step.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: There's practical stuff being fine, it's being all fulfilled, I've got a contract and it's fine and it's paying a little bit of money.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: But other stuff was now, you know, bubbling away and creating its kind of own direction.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: That's really cool.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: So you went, did like the coaching, then come in.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: So that that sort of evolved from the blog and people saying I've lost my job.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Can I, can I jump on a call with you?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: And in those early days I used to say yes and just do it for free, I guess oh yeah, I didn't even know that you could charge for something like that.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, of course.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that's awful.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Jump on a call and then they'd be like an hour of kind of someone being really upset about something.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh my goodness, what have I done?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: And then when I met this coach business coach he started to say you know, this could actually be business.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: You've got a really good blog here.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: There's a great idea, traction, yeah.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: And then, um, as again happens once you get into this online world that a book coach started promoting her work and saying oh, I'm working with people who want to write a book.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for like three people, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: And I thought and it was way money that I didn't have at the time at all, but I thought I want to write, I think I want to write a book about this.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: And it came from those coffee and cake chats.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: So when you've lost your job, I can get.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I know it's all online these days, but you're probably meeting people for a bit of coffee and getting they're probably in the same boat as you.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: We used to have these coffee and cake chats of like there should be a manual to help us through this redundancy, because it was so shit and it just felt so messy and awful.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I said I'm going to write a manual of how to lose your job.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: And we sort of made a joke of it.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, about a year later, I thought well, why am I joking about it?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Why don't I just get on and do it?
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I've written a blog.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Why don't I join this book coach?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: So the book came first.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Then, yes, that's really interesting.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: So you wrote the book, yeah, and then did you self-publish, or how did you get it off the ground out into the world?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it all started lining.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: So I was still writing the blog, then doing this kind of coaching, and behind the scenes obviously, the free coaching still, that's exactly it, yeah, chats.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and your contract.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: You must have been so busy because you're doing your contract as well.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm not a busy person weirdly, I don't do busy, but I always have lots going on.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: So to me was kind of you know, it was fine I, the contract was four days, so in the day that I wasn't doing that I was, you know, filling it with writing and doing all that sort of stuff, um.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the coach, the book coach, started saying oh, this is actually really good, you've got something in here.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And I'm actually an agent as well as a book coach and I kind of think I want to take this to Frankfurt book fair.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: So I was like, right, okay, let's do it.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm all in here like if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it properly.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: So let's really tell me, how do I write a book that gets a book deal?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what that is, um.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: And she said well, you've got something.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And the reason why I think it connected was because I was having these free chats with people.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I was just listening to them.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't thinking, oh, it's money, it's like this is.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't a commercial exchange, it was genuine conversations with people and I just used to scribble a few notes not again from a personal point of view from you know what they're saying, but what I was thinking, like God, are they really in pain?
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm hearing them saying and I've got about five or six books of just notes of people chatting and what I was listening and then write a blog about it to try and help people.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: So it came from a really heartfelt place of like I really want to take people on a journey of they've lost their job.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: What does it feel like?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: And that's where the book came from.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Really, and then you got a book deal from that, then from the Frankfurt Book Show.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: That's it, yeah.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, I mean, we got a lot of rejections.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: This is what I understand, but is it with a?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: penguin.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Am I right?
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, that's such a prestigious brand.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was one of those kind of very strange moments.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: The agent was like people are really interested in this, they really like it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: There's a hesitation because you don't have a platform.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: You know it's all about.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Even then, back then, it was about you know, followers.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: You don't really have followers, so people are very hesitant and they don't.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: You're not really a researcher, you're not a professor, you're not a like who are you writing this book?
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: So there's a bit of bit of resistance there.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: But she said there's a lot of interest, so let's keep going.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: We got probably about 22 rejections, I think.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Um, she, she took it, not me.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: That's the good thing about having an agent.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: You're not getting the direct.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: All you're getting is her saying no, got another.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: No, I'm afraid.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Um, but eventually we got two offers and went with penguin, obviously because that's the brand and yeah, why wouldn't you?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: so, yeah, absolutely I mean.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: That's just.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I mean what it you really are.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: You know living proof that losing your job can be the best thing that ever happened to you.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure when you got made redundant, you would have never expected, a few years later, to have a book out with penguin definitely not.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the experience and and it's funny you know you sort of um, what drives you.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: You know, that's that's kind of my interest and I really embrace change now, like I've really studied change now, not just having chats with people, but really study, like what drives us.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: And I honestly think at one point I was driven and I call it like the revenge, the revenge drive, and I write a little bit about it in the book.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: There's something that's like I'll show you you're not having the last say on what I do.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: You're so angry at how I've been treated.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: And then it that just fades away, because it's ridiculous.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Like they don't care, they've moved on, they probably don't even work there themselves.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: They probably got made redundant in the next round.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: You know the people who make you redundant.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So that's that fades away.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: But what you're left with is this kind of yeah, I want to do something for me to keep me going, to keep me moving forward.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm worth more than just what somebody thinks I am worth a job or not.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: You know if, if they think I've ticked a box in an interview, I'm going to just keep this kind of you know going for me, whatever it is.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think it was just the start of a whole world of personal development, which is ironic because I just spent 20 years in corporate, probably getting some of the best personal development offered to me for free, and being really, you know, reluctant to go on it, like, oh, I haven't got time for that leadership development thing, I've got work to do you know, that ridiculous thing that you do in corporate.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And then suddenly I was all over it and you're paying your own fortune for you.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I know exactly what you mean exactly now.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I've got to pay for it.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Now I'm like, oh no, I want to do my coaching diploma.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Five grand, right, okay, how do I do that when we're gonna get that?
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And you know, you realize, wow, I could have done all that when I was a corporate and I just spent my whole life prioritizing my inbox, which is ridiculous on every level, but anyway.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I suddenly realized personal development is amazing, incredible.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: There's a whole different world on another side of you if you just allow yourself to sort of learn and get curious and think about things and go, yeah, but what if?
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Sit in that, what if?
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: And think about it.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm not gonna say it was an easy thing and eight years you know, elizabeth, we were talking about you know it's not easy, it's not like you just get one idea.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, eight years is a long time, you know.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: It's like you know, obviously we're working through this, but it's a long time as well before the pandemic exactly, and you have highs and lows and sometimes things are all going great, work is coming, other times nothing.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: You know, every time we moved I had to start again and I really did feel it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: You know, there was once there was maybe like four or five months where I just couldn't get any work.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I couldn't get going again and I felt absolutely miserable in a, in a military base, didn't know anybody, thinking what am I doing?
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I just cannot get going again.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I can't get contract work, I can't get any coaching.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: What I can't, you know it just wasn't connecting.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: But you have to keep going and you have to keep going.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's try this, let's try that.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: You know there was not really choices.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: There's bills to pay.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's kind of finding a way that you keep yourself going.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: It's not a case that you just have this one thing and it all comes good and it's the best thing ever.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: It's constant, it's work in progress now you coach people, don't you?
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: through your consultancy, another door that are going through career change, maybe being made redundant, lost their jobs, wondering what to do next.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: So I just wanted to rewind back.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: So you say that when people lose their job, they have three choices, which is to stick, twist or bust.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: How, if someone's listened to this, um, how do they know which one's right for them?
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: yeah, well, first, I think the very first realization is you have choice.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're really feeling stuck and you're like, what do I do?
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: And you started that process like what we do?
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: You know, we're in survival mode really.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So we apply for a job that kind of fits what we think we're doing, maybe it's the same job title that we've already done.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: That's the safest bet, that's what you do and so that's a safe bet and you start doing it.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: But but and that might be fine, it might be absolutely fine um, but what I realized?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: We're talking to people.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I draw like a little grid if you imagine there's four boxes.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: I draw like a little grid If you imagine there's four boxes on a grid and the top one is the dream job and basically that is where on this axis, at the bottom, you've got the organisation of your dreams or the person that you're working for your dreams, and on the other axis you've got what you're doing, like the actual doing versus where you're doing it.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: So dream job is that.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: You know it ticks everything.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: You can't believe it.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: But there's three other boxes there that you possibly might be kind of playing with in that step of stick, in the step of applying for jobs.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: One is the job is pretty much fine.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: It's good because it's your same job title.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: You feel very safe with it, but you've not really bothered what the organisation is.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Pretty much fine, it's good because it's your same job title.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: You feel very safe with it, but you've not really bothered what the organisation is and you're not really bothered who the person is.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: It's almost like a rebound job.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Is it like a comfort blanket?
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: job really.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: It's a total comfort blanket.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: I call it rebound because what I used to hear people saying was like, maybe three months after them getting that, or six months, they'd be like'm just, I'm just back to square one.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I haven't thought properly enough about do I really want to do this?
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Who am I doing this with?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: And it was almost like I'll show them.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I'll just get the first job that comes along.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Ticks a box and you move I suppose some people don't have to, don't they?
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Because I know I'm going to come on to the practicalities.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: But if you've got a bill to pay, maybe you've not been somewhere very long, you didn't get a big redundancy payout you're just going to have to, in some circumstances, potentially accept the first thing you get that's exactly it.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: You've taken it for a reason, which is all fine, but suddenly there's it's the.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Suddenly there's a moment where you're like wait a minute, hang on, what am I actually doing?
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: And and it is a little bit like a relationship yeah, you get dumped.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: The first thing you want to do is find yeah, you want to go out of the pool again, don't you?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly where is?
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: the equivalent of jay beckham to show that person that I didn't know, so actually the rebound job is actually people were telling me oh you know, I've never earned so much money.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I took this job because of the money, because of this, because of that.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: It was a shiny object.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: It wasn't because they needed it, it's because it was shiny and it looked like, yeah, look, I've got a job, I don't need you.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: But they have this moment where, oh, my god, what am I doing?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: So that's the rebound job.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: But the one in the bottom corner, which I I think is actually better than the rebound job, is needs must job, which is, look, I just need to.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: It might not tick my boxes, it might not be my skills, it might not be anything, but it's ticking exactly what I need right now.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And during the pandemic, I was working with a couple of people just coaching.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: We were there was a couple of us that were helping people through the process, the emotional process, and I had lots of people who took delivery driver jobs, or they took um, you know, jobs that they just needed a bit of money or they needed just, uh, belonging, they needed people around them, community.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: It was a need must job and you have to honor that.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: That's foundational and you have to be really clear.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So when you lose your job, I always say to people go into the space of what do I need right now and be really clear on the financials, or is it time and and space, or carer, you know, if you've got carer responsibilities, do not dismiss that.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Honor it and make it foundational and then you can start playing with the space.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Once you've got that, you can start playing with the space.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the bit that sometimes when you get you know read these things about dream jobs and stuff you kind of miss that part.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: So do the foundational bit.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Needs must.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Job is a great job, but it doesn't define you so what's the foundational bit then?
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: foundational bit is about, um, really understanding needs.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: So I separate needs and wants, which again is what I was feeling like.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: People just blur it all together like what do you want?
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And in coaching land that's kind of where you start.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: But needs are really important and you probably need to sit with needs a lot more and it might feel a bit boring, but you need to sit with them a lot more than anything else and you go through it and you literally go through financial well-being, physical, and tell yourself what do I need right now?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Give yourself a day.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I have to earn two grand by 1st of December, otherwise my mortgage payment gets missed.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: That's a real foundational need you have to honour and know that that's something you've got to work towards.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: So this foundational kind of thing just gives you the direction of right.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I've got right.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: How do I do it?
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: How do I get to that?
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: What have I got in my kind of toolkit that can help me to meet that need?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: But once you've got that focus and you've realized that that can happen, that's when you can create space for what you want and start moving towards something bigger.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And that's that grid can help you to move around and say, look, I've just got a needs.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Needs must be at the moment.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: It's not me forever, but it could be, you know, a couple years to get me back up and running, but it's not me forever.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I'm working towards something else, um.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's just playing with the fact that you've got choices and options and your next move out of redundancy isn't your final move, it's just another step.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: But now you're on this kind of track to know that actually I can start designing something even more exciting in the next few years.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: So what as well?
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: You mentioned there's some practicalities, so if someone's listening to this, they've just been made redundant.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: What are the practicalities that you should be considering as well?
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: yeah.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that that that needs, peace needs and wants.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: That's the most practical thing you can do.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: You can just sit and literally write down um, what from the financial point of view, what you're actually needing.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Have a look at anything you can cancel.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Quite a lot of people that I work with and I certainly did it.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I just think, well, I earn this amount a month.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I then need to earn that amount of month next.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: We don't adjust, we don't rethink, we don't go well, what do I even spend?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: We just think of ourselves as an earning vehicle.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: And when I started rethinking that and going, oh, I didn't actually have to earn that amount, and in self-employed world that isn't even the equivalent.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: That doesn't even match.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: So it's a real understanding of kind of like the financial part through your own story and what it really means for you and what you can cancel, what you don't need to do anymore, how you can spend money in a different way.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: And do you really need your car?
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of people have company cars.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: What happens then?
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: You know they're all going through all these things.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: So you have to have a really like foundational thinking and those practical stuff can really help you to understand the basics, but then once you've got that, then it allows you to start the dream and possibilities and and see that there's opportunity when people get married redundant, there is obviously a bit of a sense of I mean obviously, disappointment.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: It's sad, but there's also like that excitement about what could potentially be in the possibilities.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: And you know, um, obviously you're living proof of that.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I do coaching with people as well, and a lot of them have come to me because they've made maybe 100 applications.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: They've not heard anything back.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: You know they're potentially a year on from a redundancy.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: It's been a really, really tough year.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: What and I'm sure you've got a lot of clients like that as well.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: How do you sort of support somebody through that?
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, when we're, you know, talking months, potentially a year, in post-redundancy and they've lost a lot of confidence, what, what's your message to those people?
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's really hard and it and I think that this is where sometimes it's very I find it really difficult to give advice on a broad scale because, yeah, you've got to tread carefully in that, like I see people saying, oh, you know, just just stop and take a break, and some people you can't like, you just can't because you're just so worried about money or you know whatever's going on, um, but it is important to look after yourself at all times, um, and that's probably where I was trying to start, like, how are we going to keep you in peak performance?
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: How, where is that kind of self-care coming in?
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Because you're no good to anyone, especially not yourself, if you're absolutely burning out.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Um, and that's what I kind of find, after a prolonged period of time trying to get job, we burn out and I I actually do it myself, thinking about like, some gaps in in times of trying to pitch for work.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, constantly trying to, you know, because we've all got to do, we've all got still pitch for work, even when you're self-employed, so you can really burn out with that.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: So it's having that honest conversation, right, right, actually, less is more.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: We know that.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: That that's true, really, really high quality.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: A couple of approaches or applications or real focus on something is always going to get you further than quality.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: But again, I kind of write in the book we do that thing where we press that apply button like it's so easy to apply, apply, apply.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: But then it's quite demoralizing then to hear nothing back or worse, you get, you know, auto rejected 14 times because you pressed, apply 14 times and now you're getting auto rejections.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: But that's all, really, really, it just wears you out.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: So I think it's almost like treat it as a marathon.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: It is a marathon.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: You've got to really look after yourself, know that that you're putting in the right energy into the right things.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Um, and it's work like you do.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth, you know you're helping somebody to pinpoint job search and I don't.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: I don't particularly specialize in job search.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I'm more, um, starting a business, so I'm a little bit different.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: But it is like, where do you put your energy?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Don't just spread everywhere in that panic, really consolidate, calm it all down to even think about a perfect scenario.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: So when I say go on, then you tell me what's the perfect thing that could happen tomorrow.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: And they can't, they're too terrified to say, well, I get a job offer from Patagonia and it's worth this and it's doing this and it's doing that.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: They cannot bring themselves to say it and it's a really interesting human behaviour that we're scared to even believe something good will happen.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: So that's.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I usually do the self-care bit, like where we're at.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: We need to really look after ourselves and then bring them into that perfect scenario, because you've got to believe that there is a perfect thing out there.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: You are entitled to it.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: You're going to just have to find a way to do it.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: You know, if you always wanted to work with Patagonia, have you even approached them?
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Have you even just tried to get someone on a call that works for them?
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Like, what have you done to even try and activate that?
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: But if you're knackered and you're worn out and you're fed up with life, you can't even think about that.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: So I think when people start working with people like you, elizabeth, I think you're giving yourself a chance to, to, to get in that better position, and it's really important.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: So give yourself the best chance to get that perfect scenario and are people entitled I don't know if you know this like to benefits and things like that when they're looking for work?
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: yeah, well, this is, this is the other thing you've got to go through, isn't it?
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: I remember signing on we were down in wiltshire, I think, when I got married redundant, so we move around a bit, but um, I think I remember being in a.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Say we move around a bit, but um, I think I remember being in a job centre in devisers.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Never been to devisers before and go to sign on.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Bit of an experience to say that not what you want in in life, you know you do.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Sit there thinking how did this happen?
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: yeah, how did I get here?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: this is a very strange moment but again, you can really re.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: You can reframe it.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I had another buddy who was going through the same thing.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: She'd be made and we'd be like, are you signing on today?
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'd share like the story of like what happened and the people next to us.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: You'd always meet some crazy person next year, you know he's got a wild story about something.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: You know, if you get chatting to people.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly that you've got to.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: You have to just know that it's temporary.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: All of this stuff is temporary, all of it is just serving a moment in time.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Keep yourself in a good spot, keep your eyes open, the opportunity comes along and and just get up every day and go.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I'm giving myself the best chance.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you, you do sign on and you keep your own out and it's kind of important to check that out because it keeps your NI being fulfilled.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it is important.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Practical side of it, very weirdly, you have to pay it back, I think, when you get a job.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: I remember getting well again years ago, but I remember getting a letter through saying thanks.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Now you owe us the £750 that we gave you.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I was like what?
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: through saying thanks.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Now you owe us the 750 pound that we gave you.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I was like what, yeah, but anyway, you know, yes, definitely, check out that side of it, because you do, you should do it, but don't again, don't let it define you.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: It's a temporary thing, go with it, approach life with a bit of you know.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is where I am now.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be where I am tomorrow and I know you sort of support people as well maybe what they're saying business.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: How does somebody know if that is the option that they should be pursuing?
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: yeah, and I think it is a case of I always say just play, don't put pressure on yourself to kind of go right, I'm going to start business and this is what it's going to be, and you have to allow yourself to play with ideas.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Once you've honoured that need part and you're really clear on it, that you might just need to get back up and running and just see where the opportunities are and like, as I said, I got a contract and in the end I decided, well, do you know what?
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: That's a nice middle ground because sort of allows me to sort of still play with ideas of running a business and what even is that?
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: But I'm on sort of safe ground.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: I know what I'm doing and it's you know I think it was six months and extended it.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: So there's options out there for you.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: If you've got a burning idea to start a business, it's how can I find the MVP, that minimum viable product, or I call it the minimum viable play space that isn't going to cost you a fortune, is really easy just to test and see what's going on out there.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: But, depending on your circumstance, you might not be able to just jump straight in because it does take time, like your story, you know it does take time?
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: yeah, it takes time, especially if you need to earn quickly exactly a reality there, um, and it's sometimes very hard.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: It looks like on linkedin that someone had an idea and suddenly you know it's all come good for them the next week.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: And that certainly didn't happen for me.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: It took, took years, and so I would say fulfill that need, that financial needs, find a contract, even find the, you know, the permanent job.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: That's all good stuff because it will take the, it'll help you to not worry about finance, but don't lose the idea.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe why don't you just write a sub stack newsletter and start building an audience on the topic of the idea for the business?
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: You know a lot of people in the well-being space.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Just write about it and start building a little audience or start to hang out with people who are doing similar things like go to networking events, find people who are already doing something similar and follow them and watch them, because you make it really hard work for yourself if you just try and start from a blank page and you don't have to these days there's somebody that's already done it, that's in front of you.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: So go and learn from them, go and find them out, watch and observe and go on.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: You know, just just unapologetically.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Go and embrace it all, but know these things definitely take time.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I don't like this thing about you know 10 simple ways to earn 10 grand a month and you know, follow my steps.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: That's not it.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: I just think that that's, um, not quite a true story a bit disingenuous, so remind people how you support them then, and what your um business does and the types of people you support yeah, so I well, I do a little bit of a mixture.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not a a purist coach, um, so I I do a bit of a mixture.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: So I still consult in organizations actually around change.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: So when organizations are going through change not always redundancy, um, that's actually what my work is.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Um so, or a team that's going through change.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: I work with a team and I help coach them to connect, reconnect most of the time because they've been disconnected for whatever reason.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Um, so that's actually my main piece of work, but the coaching part and the mentoring part.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I run a community called rethinkers and it's people who want to start a business with maybe something they feel really passionate about.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: They are maybe already a consultant or they want to start consultancy.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: They're in that sort of twist or bust stage, probably in the twist stage or their training or their want to be a keynote talk.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: So I kind of work with someone to really nail a product that they can sell into corporate, because I realised that actually, you know, trying to run a B2C, trying to get coaching clients, is really hard work.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I admire anyone who can make that full-time business purely.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: So I really try and help the B2B part, really help somebody to create a product from all of their experience, from their passions, that they can sell into a corporate.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: And I call it the rethinkers community because I think you have to rethink who you are, rethink what you do and constantly be rethinking and keep opportunity going, so that that's kind of what what I do on a b2c oh, I love that.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: And how do people find out about the rethinkers?
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: yeah, so, um, yeah, head to rethinkersspace.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: I'm actually redoing the website and, again, I'm sure that we all go through this.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Once we know how to do a website, it's lethal because you keep tinkering and playing.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm like that I was thinking it's a bit like and this is, but and this sounds a very sexist comment, it shouldn't, but you know, you see there's.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking there's people on our street.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: There's a couple of old men on our street that have old cars in their garages.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: They're always tinkering with them and I feel a little bit like that about my website no, it's true.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Once you it's at, it's actually lethal to learn a new thing like that, because once you realize, oh, I can do this myself, oh, I can do this, I can do that are you still on?
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Wordpress.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: No, I.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I let go of wordpress, um, after the inappropriate adverts were running wild and I moved to squarespace.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: So I'm a squarespace person now.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, eight years on Squarespace, so I kind of encourage that for people um.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: It's less of a learning curve, isn't it, than WordPress exactly, exactly, um.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm a tinkerer and I'm always like tinkering.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: So I'm tinkering and rethink at the moment and, uh, what could that look like?
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: And oh, I don't like this anymore.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, the best place is LinkedIn.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Come and just uh, drop me a message on LinkedIn if any of that resonated absolutely, and I close your book as well.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: It's the perfect gift to somebody that has unfortunately lost their job, or you know a bite for yourself.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Remind everybody what your book is called, and I'm sure it's available from all good bookstores absolutely why losing your job could be the best thing that ever happened to you brilliant and it's by Eleanor Tweedle, if you're typing that into Amazon or Waterstones or wherever you buy your books.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, eleanor, for joining us today.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: I know you've got a podcast as well, the Another Door podcast, which you very kindly invited me to be a guest on, but we will put all the links to all your supportive resources, including the book, in the show notes.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me today.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the work.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: It like a mum podcast.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.