Latest / The Downbeat / AARON GILLESPIE: Paramore, Underoath & the Modern Music Industry

Transcript

AARON GILLESPIE: Paramore, Underoath & the Modern Music Industry · The Downbeat

• 0:00
  Hey guys, welcome back to the Downbeat Podcast.
• 0:02
  My guest on the podcast this week is Aaron Gillespie, drummer
• 0:06
  of Underoath. Guess he's a singer as well.
• 0:08
  He is also a producer. He's played for bands like
• 0:11
  Paramore. We go back.
• 0:14
  We toured together in 2022 on a toilet.
• 0:17
  We'll tell you all about a toilet you couldn't even do
• 0:20
  these days because every band on it is ginormous.
• 0:22
  Haven't seen him in three years. We just had such a fun chat.
• 0:27
  Like, love this guy. I love this guy.
• 0:29
  We talk about his career, we talk about the band, we talk in
• 0:33
  depth about the state of the music industry today.
• 0:36
  We, it was just so good. You're gonna love it.
• 0:38
  Trust me, you're gonna love it. Before we get started, guys, I
• 0:41
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• 2:11
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• 3:00
  you've got 8. I don't care. neuraldsp.com, the
• 3:03
  code is downbeat. Without further ado, it's Aaron
• 3:06
  Gillespie on the Downbeat Podcast.
• 3:21
  When did you become an engineer? I don't know you're good at it,
• 3:24
  just trying to make money. If I had to do this, it would be
• 3:28
  a fucking mess, no? But that's what you do.
• 3:30
  I I produce music, but it's different.
• 3:32
  I feel like it's different. Let me unleash the beast
• 3:34
  quickly. That was a good noise.
• 3:37
  Wait, so you are just Hello Aaron Gillespie, Underoath?
• 3:40
  I was so happy when I saw you outside.
• 3:43
  It's been so long. I haven't seen you in three
• 3:45
  years. Has.
• 3:46
  It been that long? I haven't seen you since that
• 3:48
  tall. Surely, I guess you're right.
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  Even though I've lived here for seven months.
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  That's my that's my fault, not yours.
• 3:53
  You're a busy man. You had a good point.
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  I don't know when I became an engineer.
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  I've got no fucking idea. Just you know what it's like.
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  I guess when you started recording yourself, you were
• 4:03
  like, how do I do this? Sure.
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  Read a fucking book. Well, I never wanted to, you
• 4:08
  know, be a producer, a music producer.
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  That was never the goal. I moved to town here in
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  Nashville to write songs and I learned quick when I moved here,
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  you can't get a song cut or or used by an artist unless the
• 4:22
  demo rips because we live in a time now where when I first
• 4:25
  started writing here 10 years ago, you could send around
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  iPhone demo tapes. They call them work tapes.
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  You could send you know, whatever.
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  And now like A and R people and stuff, they it needs to sound
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  like a master. So I got real good at it.
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  Like, you know, it just you have to if you want to get cuts and
• 4:41
  then eventually people are like, can I have that?
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  And you're like, well, for a nominal fee.
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  And that's that's what happened. There we go.
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  But did you engineer back then as well?
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  No, no, you never, no, you never set up the microphones.
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  No, I mean you would have like a shitty thing in your house or
• 4:57
  whatever, but never like to the level you have to now, you know?
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  OK, explain to the layman. Look at this.
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  I always break the 4th world to talk about how good I'm doing
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  killing it. I.
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  Keep. Killing it?
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  Explain to the layman and me because I'm a bit of an idiot.
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  And also Madison in this case is the layman also the difference
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  between a producer and an engineer?
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  Because people confuse the two. Well, traditionally.
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  Traditionally a producer would come in and rifle through a
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  batch of songs or whatever can't go this one, this one, this one
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  in in jest with the band or artist to figure out what what
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  they're going to end up cutting on the record.
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  And then a producer will go, well, the keys wrong for your
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  voice and maybe it's too fast, right?
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  Or, or the verse should be the chorus and the bridge should be
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  earlier or later. That's traditionally what a
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  producer was for. And an engineer was the person
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  that technically recorded all of it.
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  Sets all the mics up. And pushes record back in the
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  day, ran the tape machine, all of that shit.
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  And then a mix engineer is someone completely different
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  from that. And then a mastering engineer is
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  another person that kind of puts the final gloss on it.
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  But now the lines have been so blurred because essentially
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  because of money and because of ease of use.
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  Like you can buy a Rode podcaster machine and just RIP.
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  I insist that you do. Look at that.
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  Come on, give him. Some fucking they don't give him
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  money, just free shit. Oh there you go.
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  Give him another one. He needs a backup.
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  But like you can, you can buy an iMac and put it in your MacBook
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  and put it in your room and make great recordings like the first
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  Billy Alish record the the the one where she's laying on the
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  bed or whatever. Her and her brother did that in
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  her parents house on a computer with Logic with stock plugins.
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  Nice. You know what I mean?
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  Yeah, You can't beat just good music.
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  Gets out there. That's what I mean.
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  So the lines have been blurred between all those fucking labels
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  of I'm the producer, I'm the engineer.
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  Now it's just, you know, it's just blurred.
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  So I'm in the studio with you producing a track.
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  Let's assume I'm a hit country artist now, because I've kind of
• 7:02
  got a mallet now and I live. You do?
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  Yeah. Have you been dabbling in
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  country music? No, not yet.
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  We'll get you in there. Not yet, but I ain't got a band,
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  bro I'm ready. We'll get you going.
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  But like, OK, I'm in there. I have a demo song I played at
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  the vinyl tap. Oh wow, you know the locals, You
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  know the fucking names. OK.
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  And then I come to Aaron Gillespie, known for his, you
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  know, huge discography. And I I come to you and we're in
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  the studio. What do you do?
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  Like, what's your official job? There I go.
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  Here's here's my song. Oh OK, I've never heard it.
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  You heard it. You were at the vinyl tap
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  actually, and you were like, this guy rocks.
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  I want to produce him. It's like Wayne's.
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  World that's real. That's what happened.
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  I was just about to say Wayne's World.
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  I would be like, play through it for me, you know, in front of
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  me. I want to hear you want to, I
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  want to feel it. This is where I move a little
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  bit. I want to feel it in the room.
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  Like I want to feel, you know, it's like listen to a drummer on
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  record versus in person. There's a massive, massive
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  difference and you know it and I know it.
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  Play it in the room. I want to see what it feels
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  like. And then it would, it would
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  start to make decisions and this.
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  Is like what like you mean? Like, is it too fast?
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  He looks like he's struggling to like, sing that note on the
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  course. Should we bring it down a half a
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  step? And then I would go, well, the
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  first verse, the first verse could maybe be half as long or
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  like he's talking about a stop sign, but he never says the
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  color red and he never took, you know, fucking.
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  Like that Ruben over. Here no but.
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  That's small. That's the way you do it.
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  So like, you know, like or or he's saying this to on the nose
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  being like a stop sign is an Octagon and it's red.
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  I maybe I want it to be like, you know, this is this is where
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  every Rd. ends. It's like whatever.
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  Wow, are you a fast? So I would start there and then
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  it would be like, maybe there should be like, OK, like should
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  the drums be on the two and four, the one and the three on
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  the chorus? And maybe the bass should be in
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  fours instead of eights. Like, so it's just one thing
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  cascades off another. But it starts with like, hey,
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  what are you saying and how are you trying to say it?
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  And maybe you're saying it to black and white.
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  Maybe we need to put some Gray with an E in there.
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  And then Gray with an E. Thank you.
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  You're welcome, didn't know what you meant.
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  Would you then get royalties for changing the lyrics?
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  There's a There's a Gray line there as well.
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  We don't have enough time today to talk about music publishing.
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  It is the most convoluted, bullshit, confusing thing in the
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  music industry. So traditionally publishing is
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  50% music and 50% lyrics, and the 2 married to make 100% of a
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  song. Do you agree with that split
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  before you carry on? Yeah, I I, but I have a hard
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  time because I like. Bands like slam Death metal.
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  Yeah, but I but I grew up loving bands like Pelican and Isis.
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  I don't know if you can. I don't know if you can.
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  Say that of. Isis, the Panopticon record is
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  one of my favorite and there's no vocals and I don't need
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  vocals and I don't give a shit, you know, on that music.
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  So I agree with it and I don't. But if I were to change some
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  words in this guy's song, technically.
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  You get a bit of that. I would get a bit of that 50,
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  but am I going to go to bat for it if I just told him to the
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  instead of the I don't care. But if I took the whole verse
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  and took its legs off and put its arms where his legs are,
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  I'll go to his management or lack thereof or him himself and
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  say, hey, we kind of put a skirt on this together.
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  Can you break me off a piece? And does that ever get any
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  pushback? Do you even do that?
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  Yeah, I imagine pushback. Does it get like, there's no
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  camera in the room? Like, oh, I'm pretty sure you
• 10:23
  didn't do that. And then you have to be like a
• 10:26
  Falcon, dead. Well, songs.
• 10:27
  I look at songs on where they're written and what I mean by that
• 10:31
  is in LA people do that shit like when you're in a session in
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  LA that starts at one O clock and someone's hungover and then
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  it ends up being three O clock and you get there and no shade
• 10:41
  to LA, there's really talented people in LA, but you get there
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  and there there are people that that count words.
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  Like I wrote 15 words in this verse in Nashville.
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  If you're there, it's even split.
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  It just is. If a song is from inception
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  like. Yeah, if you're writing in you.
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  Me and Madison were in here and I and we wrote a song and the
• 11:00
  two of you said shit, nothing. I would give each of you 33 and
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  a 30%. That's just.
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  Sick. Let's do it.
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  But that's just the way that it's done here in London it's a
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  bit different as well. I've written in London some and.
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  What's the difference? In London?
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  Everyone's got like tweed suits on.
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  I can make that joke now. No, it's just it's a bit more
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  buttoned up. It is, but it's also like in, in
• 11:22
  a, in a different way. It's looser where people are
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  just like, yeah, right. That's got, you know what I
• 11:28
  mean, like. Going to continue.
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  But you know, I mean, it's different in every place, but
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  here everything is really, really even.
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  So most people are, but I haven't.
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  Here's an example. A song is about to come out that
• 11:39
  I made at the end of last year. And I'll leave the guy, nameless
• 11:42
  country artist and he, him and I in the room alone.
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  No one's there. And I got a piece, a piece of
• 11:49
  e-mail the other day that said someone else is getting 20%.
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  So that's the case that you're really asking about.
• 11:54
  A producer changed a few lines in the second verse and took
• 11:58
  20%, which I'm fine with so. You wrote the song, but you
• 12:01
  didn't produce it, no. Or it went OK.
• 12:03
  That happens quite a bit as well.
• 12:05
  So do you do that as well? Just write with people.
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  All the time, five days a week. Right now I'm in production
• 12:10
  mode, so I'm doing, I have 15 songs by due by September 1 as a
• 12:14
  producer. So I'm like dug in.
• 12:17
  I wrote a song today, but I probably shouldn't have.
• 12:19
  What do you mean you shouldn't? I don't.
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  Have time like I crave it. It's my favorite bit of this
• 12:23
  business and also as as. It should be really.
• 12:26
  And also as a drummer too, it's my favorite thing to do.
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  Like I find that I get like anxious and bent on the road
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  playing the same 15 songs every day because my mind will wander.
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  Like, the greatest part about music in my opinion is making it
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  from zero. So I just don't have time right
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  now. I shouldn't be writing songs, I
• 12:43
  should be finishing my productions.
• 12:45
  I think I disagree. I agree with the 505050 music 50
• 12:51
  lyrics you do in everything except please sponsor us in.
• 12:58
  This guy's got a Spearman. I'm rocking a cinnamon.
• 13:01
  This is coffee. Would love.
• 13:02
  Coffee. I'm not a one flavor man with
• 13:04
  Zen. I do coffee, spearmint, citrus,
• 13:07
  and cinnamon. Same time.
• 13:09
  No, no, no, no, no. Just.
• 13:11
  If we're here for two hours, I'm going to I can't do one taste.
• 13:14
  Excellent, I'll be bored anyway, as I was saying.
• 13:18
  So like I agree with it to an extent.
• 13:21
  There's a whole nother conversation about how legally
• 13:26
  playing the drums on something isn't writing.
• 13:31
  Yes. I think I agree with it up to
• 13:35
  metal music. I think the split should be
• 13:36
  different from metal and I think particularly because I've been
• 13:39
  burnt by it before, drums not being included in composition.
• 13:44
  So like I did a technical death metal band on Sumerian Records
• 13:49
  in like 2010. What?
• 13:51
  Was it called? It's called the heart machine.
• 13:54
  The heart. Machine yeah right OK and the
• 13:58
  guy came to me with all these songs amazing guitarist came to
• 14:02
  me with all these songs and was like will you do this is session
• 14:05
  work and I was like this is like the program drums are fucking
• 14:09
  dog shit but like me you you touristy.
• 14:12
  I ripped it to threads like redid all the drums and then
• 14:17
  like put certain breakdowns in here, certain breakdowns in
• 14:19
  there, which is technically that bit as.
• 14:21
  So you arrange the arrangement of the song.
• 14:24
  So I did, I probably changed the arrangement of like 3 songs and
• 14:28
  then I produced it and I played all the drums on it.
• 14:31
  I quit the band before it came out for reasons I don't want to
• 14:34
  talk about on the podcast. Wasn't me, it was him.
• 14:38
  But like, but like, it's not me, it's you.
• 14:42
  And then I went to Samaria and I was like, oh, like, can I get my
• 14:45
  car of this? And they were like, no, like
• 14:49
  legally no, because you just played the drums on it.
• 14:52
  And I was like. Well, and there were sour
• 14:53
  grapes, so the guy probably wasn't willing to negotiate at
• 14:55
  that point. The fuck the Yeah, And the guy
• 14:57
  from Sumerian literally told me. As you can see in your contract,
• 15:01
  all legal proceedings have to be done in California.
• 15:04
  Good luck with that. That was the e-mail.
• 15:05
  I was like, fuck this. So what we're going to get?
• 15:07
  You're not. Going to get I was.
• 15:08
  Going to get about 80 bucks anyway, but there's more
• 15:10
  principle of the whole thing. I think the drummer thing, I
• 15:14
  have a degree in music by the way, and part of it was music
• 15:18
  history. And I think the drummer thing
• 15:20
  came about from The Beatles. I might be wrong, but like back
• 15:23
  in the day when you literally were just going, someone would
• 15:26
  write a whole song and then all we had to go is on the top of it
• 15:30
  and like everyone was kind of like guy doesn't deserve.
• 15:34
  I heard. That.
• 15:36
  Heard that that's why they would let Ringo sing was to get him
• 15:38
  paid on publishing. Yeah, I think.
• 15:40
  That's why we have horrible octopus's garden, because yes,
• 15:44
  they wanted to pay the ban. Which is cool, but like it's.
• 15:47
  The song is shit. In in metal, I feel like the
• 15:49
  drums like you're going to come to me with like a a thrash riff
• 15:53
  and I go, OK, we're playing a disco beat or the guitarist is
• 15:57
  like we need to put a disco beat here.
• 15:58
  And I'm like, it probably sounds better with the blast beat and
• 16:01
  then I win and the songs are as big of a hit as a thrash metal
• 16:05
  song that can be. Dude, it's such a fucking weird.
• 16:10
  That is a weird argument because because legally you have no leg
• 16:14
  to stand on. But you can.
• 16:16
  You can play a course like that. To, to or chat.
• 16:20
  To chat to and it changes the song.
• 16:22
  Yeah, like Angel of Death. Like imagine he wanted to go
• 16:25
  swing on it. Trash.
• 16:27
  And then Dave Lombardo goes, I think we should do thrash drums
• 16:31
  and then doesn't get any money for it.
• 16:32
  I'm sure they do because you can split.
• 16:35
  You can split like songwriting, but legally if someone leaves a
• 16:40
  van and all they did was play the drums, you don't have to
• 16:42
  give them fucking anything. And Underoath, our biggest
• 16:45
  records all even publishing split because.
• 16:50
  That's nice. That's how you did it back then.
• 16:52
  And then we tried to not and it was hard.
• 16:56
  It was a hard internal. Yeah, the arguments.
• 16:59
  That you have and now it's it's it's still not even, but it's.
• 17:03
  Even to what? It's even ish.
• 17:06
  Even to every what everyone brings the same thing in Stray,
• 17:09
  like everyone does different things outside of the band that
• 17:15
  complete the band irrespective of music.
• 17:18
  So we always just split everything.
• 17:19
  We actually split everything five ways because Will Putney,
• 17:22
  the producer, does so much. He does.
• 17:24
  Oh yeah, he's. I told you this off the camera.
• 17:26
  The new street record is so good.
• 17:28
  Thanks bro. I was splitting up.
• 17:30
  I don't get it. I mean, I get it, but I don't.
• 17:33
  Yeah, you get it. I've been in bands that quit
• 17:34
  like 10 times. That's fine.
• 17:36
  Yeah, He's come back in five years.
• 17:38
  We're not. We're not planning that.
• 17:41
  You know what's funny is I was, I was driving into the city
• 17:44
  today. I live in burbs and I was on the
• 17:47
  phone with our bass player and there's always, there's in a
• 17:51
  band, there's never. Like, I can't say with full
• 17:57
  honesty. And it's ever been like,
• 18:00
  everything's perfect. It's ripping never.
• 18:04
  In 2006, we sold 100,000 copies of To Find the Great Line in
• 18:08
  Seven days. Five days technically.
• 18:10
  Do you know what I worked at? Plastic Head Music Distribution
• 18:14
  When that record came out, I put a lot of those CDs into little
• 18:18
  packages and sent them off we. It was #2 in the country and
• 18:23
  Nelly Furtado beat us, but that we dropped, we dropped off Warp
• 18:28
  Tour that summer, unhappy fighting.
• 18:31
  You know, Spencer was dealing with it.
• 18:33
  It was it it you never ever publishing, even making more
• 18:39
  money than you. You know, we all grew up on
• 18:40
  fucking welfare and like you, just I, I've never, it's never
• 18:45
  been perfect and we're happier now than we've ever been.
• 18:47
  We all get along wonderfully. We had the biggest tour of our
• 18:50
  career last year, but for some reason, I don't know what it is
• 18:54
  with bands. Bands are hard, man.
• 18:56
  It's. It's like having five
• 18:58
  girlfriends. It really is.
• 18:59
  And then you've got real girlfriend and wife or kids as
• 19:02
  well. In your case, it's a lot of
• 19:04
  personalities you have to. Figure out.
• 19:06
  I think it's more like a marriage in the sense where I
• 19:10
  know with underoath, I know this, that there is no underoath
• 19:14
  without the people who were there.
• 19:17
  And as much as I could hate personalities at certain times,
• 19:21
  you can't do fuck all about it. The tension and the bullshit and
• 19:26
  all of it makes it sound like what it sounds like.
• 19:28
  I really believe that, I think, and that's sounds like some Rick
• 19:32
  Rubin Foo Foo shit. Whole thing now bro.
• 19:37
  And I have a theory about him that's long and crazy.
• 19:39
  But anyway, it's that's what makes it sound the way it
• 19:41
  sounds. I believe that Underoath is like
• 19:42
  that yen Yang sound that people have have known for years
• 19:46
  because of the different personalities.
• 19:48
  Because of the tension and the drama, it's it's I had this
• 19:51
  conversation yesterday in the gym with someone where I was
• 19:54
  like, I won't say who I was talking about.
• 19:57
  Pussy, I'm just. Pretty fuck, I'll forget to tell
• 19:59
  you. It's pretty fucking obvious what
• 20:01
  I'm talking about, but like, whatever is the same thing.
• 20:04
  Whatever. You need to be an incredible
• 20:09
  front man of the band. Whatever part of the brain that
• 20:13
  needs is the part of the brain that makes you an absolute
• 20:16
  nightmare psycho off stage. Like I can't think of a single
• 20:21
  ego front man, not even ego wise.
• 20:23
  Just whatever you have in your body.
• 20:26
  Like the people who are like Excel, go on the stage and
• 20:29
  they're like the best. Always psychos.
• 20:33
  Whatever is wrong with your brain outside of that brings
• 20:37
  that on stage. It's impossible.
• 20:39
  I can't think of a single front, man.
• 20:41
  I know all of my fucking friends, all the ones that are
• 20:44
  like incredible fucking nightmares, love them, but
• 20:47
  they're fucking all of them have mental health issues.
• 20:49
  All of them are psychos. I was we were just on Chris
• 20:52
  Williamson's podcast a few weeks ago, Tim and I.
• 20:55
  Flex. I watched it, it was great.
• 20:57
  Cheers, but he said something to me that it changed the way I
• 21:01
  think and I'll say it to you in in a shorter way.
• 21:05
  Did he use it as a clip and if he didn't, can I use it as a
• 21:08
  clip? I don't know if they did.
• 21:09
  He might have, but I have horrible, debilitating anxiety.
• 21:12
  You know that we've talked about this.
• 21:13
  I don't know if we talked about it on the last podcast, but
• 21:16
  we've talked about it in person. It's the beers before the show.
• 21:19
  It's it's the things that we do. You do it too.
• 21:22
  But big time. Those things are the price that
• 21:26
  you pay to be as creative as you are.
• 21:30
  And it and I'm going to go further with it and this wasn't
• 21:32
  on the podcast, so you can clip to this part, but I really
• 21:36
  believe as creatives and entertainers and you know, we'll
• 21:41
  bring it back to the front man thing.
• 21:42
  But like you're always making and creating and if you're front
• 21:47
  man, I think you're probably always performing.
• 21:50
  And what happens when you take that away when you're home with
• 21:53
  your family, when you're in the gym, your body like your, your
• 21:58
  subconscious like, you know what I'm saying?
• 22:00
  Your, your nervous system is still creating.
• 22:04
  You can't turn it off, which is why you and I sleep poorly,
• 22:09
  which is why we're anxious, which is why I think some front
• 22:13
  men are nightmares, because you can't turn it off.
• 22:15
  And it's the price you pay for that stream of creativity.
• 22:20
  There's a huge dopamine thing in it as well, particularly like
• 22:23
  coming off tour or even making music.
• 22:25
  Like you get the same, your brain acts the same when you
• 22:29
  play in front of 5000 people and the show's ripping as it does
• 22:32
  when you do an 8 ball. Like your brain just goes
• 22:35
  dopamine. And then the next day when you
• 22:37
  come home from tour and you don't have that.
• 22:39
  On a micro level, to pump your tires up a little bit.
• 22:41
  Guillotine. The beginning of that song,
• 22:44
  brother. You thought that up?
• 22:47
  I did, yeah. There's something wrong with you
• 22:50
  that you and it's beautiful and it's so it's we play it in the
• 22:54
  green room and I'm like. Like I love that.
• 22:57
  With two sins and ready to fuck tear the roof off of the place
• 23:01
  we listen to it. I'm like that psycho make this.
• 23:03
  And what that does, though, is your brain is making that right
• 23:06
  now in some way. Your your central nervous system
• 23:08
  is doing that to yourself and that's why you can't turn it
• 23:12
  off. And I think that's the front man
• 23:13
  thing. I think a truly like Liam
• 23:15
  Gallagher is. Deranged.
• 23:18
  Fucking man. And to me, he's Oasis is my
• 23:20
  favorite band since I was a little kid.
• 23:22
  But like he is deranged and I don't think he can turn it off.
• 23:27
  Yeah, there's no way. There's no way.
• 23:29
  He goes at home and he's like, right, let's watch TV.
• 23:31
  Cut, cut. He does insane shit in his
• 23:33
  house. Yeah, insane shit.
• 23:35
  Like him and his brother, the whole thing.
• 23:37
  Insane. It's like a life sentence
• 23:39
  though, because you can't ever. You can't ever escape it.
• 23:42
  And you will never start. Stop writing the beginning to
• 23:44
  guillotine. You.
• 23:45
  Won't. You're going to keep doing it
• 23:47
  and it's going to drive you. Fuck, I did it on this record.
• 23:49
  I went, oh, you did worse. How can I yeah, how can I make
• 23:52
  the I took fortune teller and guillotine and I was like, let
• 23:54
  me make these one I. Know, I know.
• 23:56
  And then, yeah, but I don't have a band now.
• 23:59
  It's. Interesting.
• 23:59
  Yeah, well, you'll find something to do, but you can't
• 24:02
  turn that off. And I think that that's why
• 24:03
  every front man, to bring it back to your point is a
• 24:06
  nightmare because to get that adoration and to like.
• 24:12
  I watched Spencer do it all. We have this song on our new
• 24:14
  record called Generation No Surrender.
• 24:16
  And he gets the crowd to do it and it's fucking crazy.
• 24:20
  He tells them what to do and they go.
• 24:22
  And it's like, I'm like that power it got, it's got to mess
• 24:27
  with you, right? And then he goes home.
• 24:28
  He's got to take the bins out. Straight up trash cans for you
• 24:31
  America. Sorry, there's certain things
• 24:33
  that I refuse. I think I say Madison can tell
• 24:36
  you because she lives with me. I think I say bins.
• 24:38
  I will refuse to say trash. Is there any others?
• 24:41
  Like I'm trying to think of other things.
• 24:43
  It's a daily thing where I pronounce something wrong.
• 24:46
  You say trolley at the grocery store.
• 24:48
  How do you say trolley? I have been trying real hard to
• 24:50
  say car. My mom says buggy, buggy.
• 24:53
  Like get me get me a buggy. Nothing like a buggy.
• 24:55
  She's from Chattanooga. Hey, get me a buggy honey.
• 24:58
  Give Oh, she's so you are. You're like from here.
• 25:00
  I'm the only one born in Florida.
• 25:02
  My family is from just over the state line in Georgia.
• 25:06
  You're just the. Southern belle through and
• 25:08
  through. My whole family talked like
• 25:09
  this. I did until I started travelling
• 25:11
  and then it went away and. Then it went away.
• 25:12
  Yeah. I don't think my accent softened
• 25:14
  at all. I will.
• 25:15
  There's there's I've got 2 hard lines on UK to US.
• 25:21
  Like the way we speak. One of them is like, I will give
• 25:25
  you guys, this is a trade that I'd like to do if we could just
• 25:28
  bring the UK and the US together and we just agree, forget about
• 25:32
  all these wars for a second. We just agree garage is right.
• 25:37
  I will give you guys that we say garage.
• 25:39
  Oh, I. Was going to say you've given
• 25:41
  up, Gary, you've. Given I would give it up because
• 25:43
  you learn the word mirage right in.
• 25:46
  I will give up that word in exchange.
• 25:51
  Water freezes at 0 and boils at 100.
• 25:54
  Oh, you can't do cells. You can't do Fahrenheit.
• 25:57
  It makes no sense. Ours makes perfect sense.
• 26:00
  We're the only country that uses the imperial system, right?
• 26:03
  I don't know, I. Think so.
• 26:05
  Do you say kilometres or miles? I say miles.
• 26:07
  That's. Weird.
• 26:08
  Weird. So we split.
• 26:09
  We we're just a bit weird. There are certain things that we
• 26:12
  use like that. We use the metric system for
• 26:15
  that, you're right. 9 millimetres.
• 26:16
  Bullets and guns. What's 9 millimetres in inches
• 26:20
  please? What else we don't say.
• 26:22
  We don't say meters or millimeters for anything.
• 26:24
  Anything other than bullets. Drugs.
• 26:27
  Grams. Grams in mill milliliters.
• 26:30
  Interesting was 9. Millimeters to.
• 26:34
  Feet to inches. It would be.
• 26:35
  It would be inches. Feet's finer, actually.
• 26:38
  That's a big old bullet. 9mm to feet bullshit. 0.039370. 1.
• 26:45
  That's why you say 9mm. Yeah, because you're not going
• 26:47
  to say. You're not going to bother
• 26:48
  saying that, but yeah, I just think water freezes at 0, boils
• 26:53
  at 100. That makes sense.
• 26:54
  But I'll give you garage for garage.
• 26:56
  So if you're play, if you're in London and you're doing an under
• 26:58
  play with Shrey, are you playing the garage or the garage?
• 27:00
  I mean, I'm still going to say garage, but I would if they made
• 27:03
  it like some sort of legality that you guys have to use
• 27:08
  Celsius and I have to. Say over there, Spencer and I
• 27:11
  had gotten our first tattoos, some small tattoos.
• 27:14
  What was it? Come on.
• 27:15
  It was this Florida thing, but it was just the outline of it.
• 27:17
  How long ago is this? That's how can you this is your
• 27:19
  camera 20. Hold this up.
• 27:21
  It's. Going to be upside down 20 years
• 27:23
  ago we played the garage for the first time we had to wash our
• 27:27
  new tattoos in the garage bathroom that.
• 27:28
  Would have been the old garage. And we kept saying garage and
• 27:33
  people were like, no, that's not what it's called.
• 27:34
  And I was like, bullshit, look at it.
• 27:36
  It's English. You invented it.
• 27:38
  So, yeah, I'll give you that one.
• 27:39
  Yeah. I don't know what you know, back
• 27:41
  in the day, Red coats. Blue What Red Coats?
• 27:44
  Was that ours? I don't know.
• 27:45
  Yeah, you guys are red Coats. I wonder if they said garage.
• 27:48
  So we didn't have one. To living in Do you feel out of
• 27:53
  place at all? Yeah, and I love it.
• 27:55
  You do you love. It I love it.
• 27:56
  Every day feels like, I mean a fucking TV show.
• 28:00
  Every day. I go into like, I just go into
• 28:03
  like, oh, I'm just doing a documentary mode in my brain.
• 28:06
  Like every interaction with someone is not real.
• 28:09
  The gym. Yeah, everything is crazy.
• 28:12
  You go to. Showmans it's like down the
• 28:15
  fucking. Street.
• 28:16
  That's that's pretty much it. We, we go to eat a lot, but I
• 28:20
  don't really. What do you eat?
• 28:21
  I'm fucking old. What do you eat?
• 28:22
  There's a lot of good places where we've been.
• 28:25
  I'll tell you what, I'll shit on for a second.
• 28:27
  There's a sushi place and everyone said it was fucking
• 28:29
  amazing. What's it called?
• 28:30
  Vai Vai. I haven't.
• 28:32
  Been there, I've heard of it. You know the one.
• 28:34
  And everyone's like, this is the spot.
• 28:35
  And we went sushi connoisseurs. Oh, yeah.
• 28:38
  And it was like Mead. Like it looked really nice in
• 28:41
  there, but it was Mead. I'm going to come out and say
• 28:43
  this, there is not a lot of great food in Nashville.
• 28:48
  I like it. She's not in her head.
• 28:51
  She's from fucking Cleveland. We got a lot of good food in
• 28:54
  Cleveland. But if you think about it, no,
• 28:55
  let's, let's, let's, let's. OK.
• 28:58
  I was just, I just spent a few days and my wife is from Romania
• 29:02
  and she was adopted as a child, and she's never been to Europe.
• 29:05
  So we were playing a festival in Manchester and I was like, let's
• 29:10
  go over to Europe for a week before I'll take you to Paris.
• 29:14
  And she was enamored. She's like, there's all this
• 29:16
  stuff and shops and food and I took her to Dishum.
• 29:21
  Have you been to Dishum? Yeah, but you're you're, you're
• 29:23
  comparing like the best food in Europe with.
• 29:27
  But what I'm saying is people in Americans vacation in Nashville
• 29:32
  Bachelorette parties, Hindus for you.
• 29:36
  Nice, you got that. One, I know it all, stag,
• 29:38
  whatever, but people come here as a destination to eat and I
• 29:42
  just don't get it. I mean, I wouldn't say it's a
• 29:44
  destination to eat, but like we've been to good restaurants
• 29:47
  the best. Restaurants in America are in
• 29:49
  New York, and in New Orleans, there's the most.
• 29:53
  Culture there. I mean, there's good.
• 29:55
  I mean, there's good fucking restaurants everywhere.
• 29:57
  There is, but Nashville's not a food.
• 29:59
  Destiny but like take out going to Deshume and take out going to
• 30:02
  Michelin style places and take out going to like I'm on
• 30:05
  vacation and then go and be in Paris for a day on tour and then
• 30:11
  go to Paris for a week and eat the normal food there.
• 30:15
  No offence Paris love Paris but like your debt your bog
• 30:18
  standard. Sorry it's more English.
• 30:20
  I got it run-of-the-mill. That means your bog standard
• 30:24
  restaurant in Europe is not as good as your bog standard
• 30:28
  restaurant in America in my opinion, in terms of like.
• 30:31
  You really think so? 100%.
• 30:32
  Like a calf, like a like a brasserie on a random Tuesday in
• 30:36
  Paris is better fact. I'll fight you for it.
• 30:38
  I might give you that one. Paris is a bad example.
• 30:42
  So my agent is British. Our our, our booking agent that
• 30:46
  does everything outside of America.
• 30:47
  He's he's a London guy and people always, especially
• 30:51
  American brother, shit on English food and I think it's.
• 30:54
  Great. Yeah.
• 30:55
  But because they're the 1500 cap venues, 800 to 1500 caps, you
• 31:00
  don't have enough money to go to the really good restaurants.
• 31:02
  Every city has really good restaurant.
• 31:04
  Right. But okay, so let's make it
• 31:06
  cheap. If you go to a grocery store
• 31:08
  here and you have to hurry, you're on tour and you need a
• 31:11
  sandwich, it is shit 90% of the time.
• 31:14
  Never done it, so I don't know. Yeah, we have good sandwiches in
• 31:16
  the UK. Marks and Spencer.
• 31:18
  It's a good slap. That's a good prawn Mayo
• 31:20
  sandwich. It's so good.
• 31:22
  Shrimp. Yeah.
• 31:23
  It's it's, it's our. Shrimp Mayo we don't have.
• 31:26
  That here, like I, I, I just, and also, I think it comes down
• 31:29
  to, and this is another podcast, but I think it comes down to
• 31:31
  like England is the size of Texas or maybe a little bigger,
• 31:35
  but it's not a very big place. And when you eat, most of the
• 31:37
  food you eat there comes from there.
• 31:39
  If you go to the, if you go to Kroger across the road and you
• 31:42
  get an avocado, 90 to 1090% of the time it's going to be from
• 31:47
  somewhere other country. But let me tell you, we can't
• 31:49
  grow avocados in the UK. A terrible example.
• 31:53
  Whatever. I'll give you strawberries.
• 31:55
  Yeah, probably us, we probably got a strawberries.
• 31:58
  I think that's that's changing that we are getting more
• 32:00
  American than that. I don't know what my point is
• 32:03
  here. I'm having more fun with the
• 32:04
  food here. I think it's because I'm not
• 32:06
  used to. It it's different.
• 32:08
  Yeah, and I get. You're shooting a documentary at
• 32:10
  all times. You're on.
• 32:11
  Vacation and but trust me I'll put on 15 lbs so I'm sure it's
• 32:14
  bad for me but like it's love it.
• 32:18
  If you go out for a night in England and you drink 10 pints
• 32:22
  and you eat a piece of pizza and you fucking eat a hot dog, yeah.
• 32:27
  Because the pizza and the hot dog are legally not allowed to
• 32:30
  be the size that they are here. We have like sanctions for like
• 32:35
  how much? But it's also the grain and
• 32:37
  everything we eat here. That's if you eat bread.
• 32:40
  We don't eat a lot of bread. I don't.
• 32:41
  Not here. Bread is a fucking cake here.
• 32:44
  It's a cake, but in Europe it's good and you won't gain weight.
• 32:48
  If you're in Italy and you eat pizza, you do it every day of
• 32:50
  course, but you're not going to feel the way you feel here.
• 32:52
  Bread here is it's not food. It's legally wouldn't be allowed
• 32:57
  to be called food in the UK. Like actually.
• 32:59
  It would be. We don't purchase bread at our
• 33:01
  house. It's not something not something
• 33:02
  we do. If you go out to a steakhouse
• 33:04
  and they bring you a basket of bread, I'll eat the shit out of
• 33:06
  it and I'll feel like crap the next day.
• 33:08
  But we don't buy like I haven't had any bread in since we got
• 33:12
  back from here and I won't there's.
• 33:14
  No, I do like a good sandwich here, but that's probably
• 33:16
  because it tastes like a cake. It is a cake, but I love the I
• 33:20
  love that you love it. Yeah, I love it.
• 33:21
  I love that you. I feel like I love the US and
• 33:25
  you love the UK like I I love the UK.
• 33:27
  My agent called me an Anglophile.
• 33:29
  Yeah. All the music, what made me want
• 33:31
  to play music is British stuff. Oh don't get me wrong, we we set
• 33:35
  the tone for that, but like we got any AC bro, it's going to
• 33:38
  piss you off. Dude, it's bad.
• 33:40
  Exactly. See what I'm just saying?
• 33:41
  I've got 38 years of like the small inconveniences.
• 33:44
  So I've come here and everything's like, I go into my
• 33:46
  house. It's like, Oh my God, it's the
• 33:48
  temperature I want it to be because there's a button on the
• 33:50
  wall. We were walking around Paris and
• 33:53
  Manchester and our hotel rooms had AC because I always tell our
• 33:55
  travel agent I'm like, I can't mess around.
• 33:57
  But in Paris, the day we landed, it was like 34 Celsius and just
• 34:04
  walk, just soaking. Yeah.
• 34:06
  Like, and it got up to 98 one day and you're just sat at a
• 34:10
  restaurant. It's a stuffed, packed
• 34:12
  restaurant, and there's no AC. And here, every time you go into
• 34:16
  a room, it's like a blast. Chill of air.
• 34:18
  So you're never wet? I was just wet for a week.
• 34:20
  And my wife was like, what's wrong with you?
• 34:22
  I'm like everything. Yeah, that's what I that's what
• 34:24
  I mean. So I got, I got love something.
• 34:26
  I got hate. I don't, I honestly don't have
• 34:28
  that many hates here, but I think it's because I have this
• 34:31
  thing in my brain where I'm like, like I live here, this is
• 34:34
  my home now. But also like I feel like I'm
• 34:38
  just in a documentary. You're I'm just doing a bit.
• 34:41
  You're a citizen. No, I've got, I've got an O1
• 34:45
  visa for three years and then it just renewed.
• 34:48
  So I had one and then I just renewed again.
• 34:50
  And then this time I was like, I got you can live here on the O 1
• 34:55
  and I never did it before. And then this time I was like,
• 34:57
  I'm just gonna fucking live here on this.
• 34:58
  So I got a new O1 which is for this.
• 35:01
  So what's next? I'm gonna interview you now.
• 35:02
  What's next? Strays over.
• 35:04
  All I want now is really because I'll still do.
• 35:07
  I'll probably do a wanky Animals As Leaders style band just for
• 35:12
  fun to get my chops out. All I want now let me tour on a
• 35:17
  bus, ideally for pay. Pay me not, not for for me, but
• 35:21
  like, you know, just split the crew and the band up and just
• 35:24
  just be comfortable. Yeah, pay me a decent fucking
• 35:28
  wage. That's it.
• 35:30
  That's all I want. I want to be able to play.
• 35:31
  That's. It the beauty of that and I did
• 35:33
  that for almost five years with Paramore.
• 35:36
  No interviews flex Oh, you know, but no, no interviews.
• 35:40
  I just played the drums. It was awesome.
• 35:43
  And you know what it did for me honestly, and this is the
• 35:46
  biggest thing, it made me five times the drummer I was before
• 35:51
  they hired me for me, you know, for my feel and style and who I
• 35:54
  am as a drummer. But they it changed me because
• 35:58
  what I realized, and this is what you'll love when you get a
• 36:01
  job like this, is if I mess up an under O song, who gives a
• 36:07
  shit? It's your band.
• 36:08
  It's my band will laugh. Sorry, I was singing.
• 36:10
  Well, yeah. Whatever.
• 36:12
  With the Paramore thing it was, it was scary to mess up.
• 36:18
  Like it's the first gig I've ever had where I messed up like
• 36:23
  four or five times and it would, I felt so bad, but I I would go
• 36:28
  tears of weeks without really screwing up, which I've never
• 36:31
  done. You know what I mean?
• 36:33
  Like I messed up Friday in Toronto.
• 36:35
  Do you? Think it's because you cared
• 36:36
  more because it wasn't your music?
• 36:38
  It's different because when you go see, I saw Coldplay once and
• 36:41
  the singer fell and it was so funny and like he played it off
• 36:45
  and like he laughed. At him.
• 36:46
  He's a funny guy. He laughed at himself and there
• 36:49
  was 30,000 people at this Out the Ramp theater in Tampa and
• 36:51
  everyone laughed and it was cool.
• 36:54
  It was cool that he screwed up. Do you know what I mean?
• 36:56
  Like it's his, but when you when you mess up, when Haley's trying
• 37:00
  to sing. You're a fucking idiot.
• 37:02
  I would fucking shoot myself. Because you're trying to prop up
• 37:06
  this perfect song. It it and the people who are
• 37:09
  there are ravenous for it. It's different than like, I
• 37:12
  don't know how to explain it, you know what I mean?
• 37:14
  Like the kabuki, that's the thing in the front of the stage
• 37:16
  for the layman would drop and there'd be 20,000 cameras.
• 37:20
  And if you mess up in that moment, you, you don't look bad.
• 37:24
  She does. You see what I'm saying?
• 37:26
  It's. It's it's her vessel.
• 37:28
  But if I mess up an underoath, it's me.
• 37:31
  I did it. And you don't.
• 37:32
  Care, I sang the beginning of Boy Brush Red over the beginning
• 37:35
  of writing on the walls once. Wow.
• 37:37
  In front of it it the Palladium in Boston.
• 37:40
  How did you style that off? Just changed both songs start
• 37:45
  you know with me in a guitar singing and I just downloaded
• 37:48
  the wrong song. Into your brain.
• 37:50
  Into my brain and I'll never forget it.
• 37:52
  A guy. So hands were playing one song
• 37:54
  and then voice did a different song.
• 37:55
  There was no hands yet. Both of those songs.
• 37:57
  They both start. With just me and.
• 37:58
  There's no hands yet, and my body came in playing the right
• 38:03
  song, but my voice was singing Boy brush red.
• 38:05
  And I'll never forget there's a guy in the yeah, there's a guy
• 38:08
  in the front row and he just goes.
• 38:11
  He's pointing at me. Just idiot, you know, like, but
• 38:14
  you can't do that when you're and it made me such a better
• 38:17
  drummer and I think I'm so much better for it now.
• 38:19
  You scared? Me now though, no, now I'm like,
• 38:22
  oh wait, it does sound scary, but you?
• 38:24
  I've just got to the point where I don't care that I fuck up in
• 38:26
  my own mind. But you do things that I don't
• 38:28
  do. Like I always think about your
• 38:30
  podcast you did with Garska where and you guys are talking
• 38:33
  about how many hours a day you practice.
• 38:35
  That's fucking crazy. Like I don't do that.
• 38:37
  Not since I moved here. I've been slacking.
• 38:39
  I play drums when there's a reason.
• 38:41
  Yeah, I already think I'm ready for that era of my life.
• 38:46
  I play a lot, like I recorded 2 songs yesterday and 1 today.
• 38:50
  So I play a lot because I'm making music and if there's
• 38:54
  drums required and I'm producing, most of the time I
• 38:57
  play the drums. I'm finding it so hard right now
• 39:01
  to because Stray's ending to. But this is multifaceted.
• 39:07
  So I only recently like I've only recently come to the
• 39:10
  conclusion that if I fuck up, it's not the end of the world.
• 39:12
  Don't beat yourself up. Also, I've gone because of the
• 39:16
  move. I've gone the longest amount of
• 39:19
  time without playing the drums that I've ever had just because
• 39:22
  of fucking. I guess when I moved here there
• 39:25
  was maybe 2 months. That's a long time.
• 39:28
  That is a long time. But I came back and I was like,
• 39:32
  oh, I'm fucking sick. And why the fuck am I playing
• 39:35
  the drums all the time? Like I literally were just like
• 39:37
  I thought I had to and to an extent you fucking do.
• 39:41
  But like muscle memory after however many years, I was just
• 39:45
  like, I thought like, right, I have to go to the drums every
• 39:47
  single day because I have to be on.
• 39:49
  I have to, you know, I'm going to lose it otherwise.
• 39:51
  And then I took two months off and then I went, oh, better play
• 39:53
  the songs because we're going on tour next week.
• 39:54
  And I was like, I'm fucking ripping.
• 39:56
  And ever since then I'm like, I can't be over to come by the
• 40:00
  drums. I'm, I'm from a different school
• 40:01
  than. I mean, Matt Garska plays things
• 40:03
  that I will never hope to even think about or breakdown.
• 40:06
  Yeah, he's afraid you do, too. But like, I think that a little
• 40:11
  bit of time away is good. It makes me more violent behind
• 40:15
  the drum set like. Yeah, there's more.
• 40:18
  You definitely physically have more energy because you're
• 40:21
  rested. And it's also running, I think
• 40:23
  drums for me. And the style that I like the
• 40:26
  most is like the edge of your seat.
• 40:29
  Like, is this going to go off the rails?
• 40:33
  Like I think that when you watch our band, you don't really know
• 40:36
  what's going to happen, even if you know the songs.
• 40:39
  Like, it's a little bit like on the edge.
• 40:41
  On the edge. It always has been and it always
• 40:43
  will be. That's just what we do.
• 40:45
  But I think drums are the best that way.
• 40:48
  But circling back, like when you're playing someone else's
• 40:50
  songs, you don't really have that liberty, you know what I
• 40:52
  mean? I think I need that right now to
• 40:54
  push me into. So what I'm saying is I
• 40:58
  currently cannot bring myself to go to the drum room because
• 41:01
  we're splitting up. So I'm like, what the fuck is
• 41:03
  the point? I know I have to, I will go next
• 41:05
  week because we went all the week afterwards.
• 41:07
  But like I think for me getting back into like loving drums, I
• 41:12
  need to join someone who just wants me to play the drums and
• 41:15
  then all I have to do is go and play their songs.
• 41:18
  I don't have to play the songs that have to play on stage and
• 41:21
  then also talk about a merch spread and talk about what's the
• 41:25
  next tour and talk about the support for the next tour.
• 41:28
  I'm fucking done with that. I'm so excited to not do all of
• 41:32
  the inner working. In the reverse.
• 41:34
  Side. The reverse side is is you'll do
• 41:36
  that and you'll love. It and then I'll get bored.
• 41:39
  And then you'll get bored. And not even bored, but just
• 41:41
  like I remember I left Paramore in 2016 because Underoath came
• 41:48
  back together and we did that, you know, playing both those
• 41:50
  records. And the first night we walked
• 41:53
  out on stage, I was like, here it is, you know, this is mine.
• 41:56
  And like, these people are here to see these songs that I was a
• 41:59
  part of making and they believe it.
• 42:02
  And it was super special with Paramore.
• 42:04
  But you realize in the whole time that you have nothing to do
• 42:06
  with it. And there's a different energy
• 42:08
  and a different vigor that you play the drums with.
• 42:11
  I believe that, you know, and you will RIP whatever gig you
• 42:13
  do, you will fucking love it for three or four years.
• 42:16
  And then you'll go, yeah, but that bridge should be halftime.
• 42:22
  It should be. It would hit harder.
• 42:25
  You know what I mean? If there's a four and a four
• 42:27
  kick on the end of this section, the lights would follow it.
• 42:30
  And it would be. I think that's my ideal
• 42:33
  situation is like get one of these gigs where I'm just doing
• 42:38
  playing their songs as they are and then within three or four
• 42:43
  years like, oh, we're going to do in your record, do you want
• 42:46
  to come right? That's the.
• 42:49
  That's the best of both ends. Yeah, I think you'll you'll come
• 42:52
  out with your head above the water no matter what you do
• 42:54
  because you're so talented. But.
• 42:55
  He's so nice. I am.
• 42:57
  You're also doing before I cut up, you're doing what Madison
• 42:59
  loves the guest to do. Look how welcoming and open he
• 43:03
  is. She always mentions it to any
• 43:06
  other guests that come because I sit like this to talk to you.
• 43:09
  We have to. It's your job.
• 43:10
  But you come in, look at that, you're wide open to the room.
• 43:15
  She's in the conversation. I'm comfortable.
• 43:18
  I know you. I'm not guarded, you know.
• 43:19
  Paramore fan, Big power. I I thought I was dropping a
• 43:23
  bomb earlier when I was like, this motherfucker used to play
• 43:25
  for Paramore and she was like. I know she Dax Shepard, I.
• 43:28
  Know. But as the executive producer of
• 43:31
  the downbeat, I was supposed to do some research.
• 43:34
  So I started doing some research.
• 43:36
  Yeah, was there a little? It was a cool time in my life
• 43:42
  and I hope that you get to experience that because in in
• 43:46
  the perks level, I mean, it was a private plane sometimes and it
• 43:49
  was that, it was that shit and it was awesome.
• 43:53
  But at the end of the day just isn't yours.
• 43:56
  It's not. It's like, it's like you go to
• 43:58
  somebody's house that's like extravagant and you'll love it
• 44:03
  for a few days and then and after that you're like, I just
• 44:05
  want my bed, you know what I mean?
• 44:07
  Like you can go stay at the Ritz for five nights and after a
• 44:09
  little while you're like, the sheets are tucked into tight
• 44:13
  fucking, you know what I mean? Like I.
• 44:15
  Want to go clean my bathroom That's.
• 44:17
  It's a thing, but. Here's the thing though.
• 44:18
  This is why I think maybe I'll avoid getting the itch like
• 44:22
  that. Because I have this.
• 44:24
  Because I have this. Yeah, I'm.
• 44:26
  Just so fucking busy that I'm just like I love playing the
• 44:29
  drums but please someone else like the last year of Stray.
• 44:35
  Like mostly other than music videos which is all Dragon Neck
• 44:39
  mostly me and Tom do everything business wise and the last year
• 44:46
  he's been busy with this is a fucking scoop because I haven't
• 44:49
  even talked about the band on this since we split.
• 44:52
  Up, I brought it out of here. It's fine.
• 44:55
  The last year he's got two kids and got busier.
• 44:58
  He's managing. Bands managing bands that are
• 45:00
  doing incredible and I've been moving and doing this.
• 45:04
  So we've been slowing down and when we slow down, nothing
• 45:08
  happens. So it got to the point where we
• 45:10
  had a conversation very like, should we just fucking?
• 45:12
  We're doing really good, but we don't have the energy to put
• 45:14
  into this. No one does.
• 45:17
  Should we just call it Tarantino 10 Records bounce?
• 45:22
  That's the reason though is is to focus on other things.
• 45:25
  We were just too busy. Yeah, yeah, I'm lucky which.
• 45:28
  Is a shame. I'm the busiest guy in
• 45:30
  Underoath, but the guy that really drives the ship is Tim
• 45:36
  and Grant, the bass player. They were their business guys
• 45:38
  and I just can't be bothered with that stuff in a band.
• 45:40
  I don't care. Yeah, see, I always have cared,
• 45:43
  and now it's put to the point where I can't physically care.
• 45:46
  And if you want to even magnify even further, you can blame
• 45:50
  Spotify for all of this because none of us would have to have so
• 45:54
  many side hustles if you got paid the amount that you should
• 45:57
  be getting paid to make music. Yeah, we lived a life for years
• 46:02
  by just doing Underoath a great life.
• 46:04
  I packed. I packed those.
• 46:05
  CDs, bro, yeah, we lived a great life.
• 46:07
  We were we got in when you when you sold music I.
• 46:11
  Know. You know, and we don't, you
• 46:13
  don't sell music now, we sell vinyl, which and we're lucky
• 46:17
  because we've been a band long enough to demand a certain price
• 46:20
  live and all of these things. But like, you don't, you know
• 46:24
  you don't, you don't make money off the music anymore.
• 46:27
  So you've got to do other stuff and then unfortunately
• 46:29
  Australia's case has become the point where like other stuff has
• 46:33
  got too fruitful to put energy into the band.
• 46:38
  That's. So sad.
• 46:39
  It is because essentially, like I do this, it makes more money
• 46:42
  than the bands ever fucking make.
• 46:43
  I was. Explaining to someone the other
• 46:44
  day how back in the day there was something called sound scan.
• 46:48
  You know every CD you sold or record you sold on the road
• 46:51
  counted as one. It it did, it was 1 to 1.
• 46:55
  If you sold 100,000 records, you sold them.
• 46:57
  Which you would think it should be.
• 46:59
  But now 1500 streams on a DSP, so Spotify, Deezer, whatever.
• 47:06
  Apple Music counts as one album. Insane to mention Deezer before.
• 47:10
  I know before Apple Music. I don't know where I got that
• 47:12
  was like. Glitch.
• 47:13
  I've never even been to Deezer bro.
• 47:14
  Singing the wrong song. But no, I mean, it's, it's just
• 47:17
  not, it's, it's the new and I don't know that it makes sense.
• 47:21
  Like the streaming thing. I look now I, I don't listen to
• 47:26
  Spotify at all because I I have moral reasons.
• 47:30
  I don't but I listen to Apple Music but I have a Spotify
• 47:32
  account to look to see the monthly listeners of artists to
• 47:35
  gauge where they are in their career.
• 47:37
  But that's bought it now as well.
• 47:39
  It's so I was going to say is we were just, we just did rock and
• 47:42
  Ring rock and Park last summer and Green Day was on both of our
• 47:45
  days as the headliner. And you know how big those
• 47:47
  festivals are, right? A band played after Green Day
• 47:50
  both days and had as big, if not bigger of a crowd.
• 47:53
  A band called The Broilers. The broilers.
• 47:56
  Yes, they're German. They're both those festivals are
• 47:59
  for the layman are in Germany and they have like it was some
• 48:03
  miniscule monthly listener compared you know, Green Day is
• 48:06
  fucking Green Day. But they're playing off the
• 48:07
  Green Day on the same stage. Yeah, yeah, that's just people
• 48:10
  can't be bothered to leave. I don't think so.
• 48:12
  The band is huge in Germany. Huge what?
• 48:15
  Was the monthly listeners. I was like like 180,000 or
• 48:19
  something, something crazy number, like some crazies like
• 48:23
  less than 1/10 or some crazy mathematical equation that I
• 48:27
  can't be bothered with. But like, people were in it, man
• 48:30
  in it. And that, that's my thing is
• 48:32
  like it's boded. And I'm not saying Green Day's
• 48:34
  boded, that's not what I'm saying.
• 48:35
  But it's boded and the litmus is just, it's wrong.
• 48:38
  It doesn't make any sense. How do you feel?
• 48:40
  Because it has changed the monthly listener metric, has
• 48:45
  changed the way music is released now.
• 48:47
  Like everyone's doing 6 singles on a record.
• 48:49
  You have to. Do you feel good about that or
• 48:51
  bad about that? Bad.
• 48:52
  Yeah, I can hate it. And this conversation scares me,
• 48:55
  Craig, because I don't want to feel.
• 48:59
  I don't want to seem and sound to people like an old head in
• 49:04
  the sense we're like when we were coming up on warp tour O 4
• 49:06
  through O 7 and we were like everything was we were light in
• 49:10
  the world on fire in those years.
• 49:11
  You know, it was like it was like bring me in 2012.
• 49:14
  That's what it was like. And I remember band like no
• 49:18
  effects and Pennywise and like all these bands that we looked
• 49:21
  up to making fun of us to our face and like saying shit to our
• 49:26
  face. And I find myself falling into
• 49:29
  those tropes mentally and I really try not to, to, to say it
• 49:33
  out loud, like of bands that are just crushing and their
• 49:37
  algorithm is right and their TikTok is right.
• 49:39
  I'm like, that's lame. I think that stuff.
• 49:42
  And I'm like, I got to watch it. You know what I mean?
• 49:44
  Like I got to, I got to really watch it because what I think is
• 49:47
  cool is like, you don't know what a band looks like and then
• 49:50
  they drop a record and you listen to the whole thing and
• 49:52
  it's magic. I missed that and I think that.
• 49:55
  You don't know what they look like because they're wearing
• 49:56
  masks. No, like because you couldn't
• 49:58
  just go look at your phone and see what a band look like do.
• 50:01
  You know what my favorite personal one of those is Ghost.
• 50:06
  I heard the Ghost record, the first Ghost record when I was
• 50:09
  working in the same place that I did your record.
• 50:12
  I heard that record before I saw what they look like and I was
• 50:15
  like, this is just sick. This sounds like ABBA with
• 50:18
  riffs. And I said this is fucking
• 50:19
  awesome. And I spoke to my friend that
• 50:21
  worked there and who was like a black metal guy, but he also
• 50:24
  liked, you know, like Crowbar and shit like that.
• 50:26
  And obviously there's big riffs in there.
• 50:27
  I was like, Oh well man, go fuck that, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 50:30
  And then we keep talking and it ends up he just doesn't like the
• 50:33
  way they look, so he doesn't like the music.
• 50:35
  I was like, what do they look like?
• 50:36
  And then I it comes up and I'm like, Oh my God, I thought he
• 50:39
  was sick but like, I know what you mean.
• 50:41
  Is that thing like I, we did a signing at a orchid store at a
• 50:45
  mall in our hometown and like 3000 people showed up.
• 50:49
  Bam because they didn't, you couldn't, you couldn't connect,
• 50:52
  couldn't DM you, you couldn't, you couldn't connect.
• 50:54
  You know what I mean? Like that was for to find a
• 50:55
  great line. Like you couldn't connect.
• 50:57
  It was like, and so now it just feels, it feels so foreign to
• 51:02
  me. The algorithms, the posting, the
• 51:05
  18 singles, it just, and I don't want to sound like an old head,
• 51:07
  but it just, the magic feels gone, as cheesy as that sounds
• 51:11
  like it just feels different, you know what I mean?
• 51:13
  I'm the same way and I like I'm I think you have an interior
• 51:17
  struggle that I do as well where I was like, I don't want to
• 51:20
  sound like I just don't get it and I don't want to be wrong.
• 51:24
  Like maybe this is just the way it fucking goes, but I hate it.
• 51:27
  That Micah, singer for new effects, made fun of us every
• 51:30
  day in 2006. From stage every day, never in
• 51:34
  Warped. World was it for the God stuff
• 51:36
  though. That's that.
• 51:37
  That was sort of his jumping point.
• 51:39
  But I really believe that that I don't know if jealous is the
• 51:44
  right word, but we were just set in the world on fire and he was.
• 51:46
  Like more. It's like Bring me.
• 51:48
  Like the minute everyone started hating Bring Me was like the
• 51:54
  start of them getting fucking massive.
• 51:56
  In the UK anyway. Like if you were not a teenage
• 52:00
  girl and you liked metal, for the most part, everyone just
• 52:05
  shout and bring me when it's like and everyone, it's the same
• 52:07
  thing people do now. Like this band's fucking never
• 52:10
  going anywhere. It's like always the band that's
• 52:11
  going to be the biggest fucking thing on.
• 52:13
  Earth and I really, I really try to combat that.
• 52:15
  There's a lot of stuff out right now that I just don't
• 52:17
  understand. And I don't understand the way
• 52:19
  it looks and the way it sounds and the way it's marketed and
• 52:22
  the way that they drip, drip 18 singles and I don't get it.
• 52:25
  But I have to just go. Times are changing and I'm old
• 52:28
  and it's OK. You know, I can like what I like
• 52:31
  and I what I think is cool is still cool to me and it's OK,
• 52:34
  but it, it is hard, dude, because I, I just, I can't be
• 52:38
  bothered to do the things that I guess are quotation fingers
• 52:41
  required now to be big or to be buzzing or whatever.
• 52:46
  Like I can't, I can't do those things.
• 52:48
  Well, I saw something that will piss you off today.
• 52:50
  Actually, I'm just in my TikTok. I can't even.
• 52:54
  Have one. Yeah, so I'm in my TikTok and I
• 52:56
  got served with this today, which was help this song get
• 53:03
  huge and get paid $500 and it's just a band and they're latest
• 53:09
  single. You can get between 30 and $100,
• 53:14
  and there's, sorry, 30 and $500 by using it in a reel.
• 53:20
  Oh, I see. And the biggest reel that pops
• 53:22
  off that gets millions and millions of views, then gives
• 53:25
  that person $500, and then it makes the band huge.
• 53:30
  That's now what's happening. It's going into TikTok.
• 53:33
  Labels going into TikTok giving TikTok fucking nothing like 500
• 53:37
  bucks. Yeah, and it's up to 30 bucks.
• 53:40
  And maybe they hash out like 900 bucks total and then off the
• 53:45
  back of that they get millions of views.
• 53:48
  So. Wild and different.
• 53:49
  I sat at my studio last year. I had a meeting.
• 53:52
  I'll leave the guy in the label nameless, but a major label
• 53:55
  pussy. And the guy was like, all we're
• 53:57
  focused on right now is TikTok. And I was like, what?
• 54:01
  And and that to me is crazy because you really work hard to
• 54:06
  make things that matter. You know, you dig on the vocal
• 54:09
  and you dig on the music and you really want it to be special.
• 54:13
  And then you just put it on a thing and hope a girl puts her
• 54:16
  makeup onto it and hope, you know what I mean?
• 54:17
  Like, I just, it's really difficult.
• 54:20
  It's really difficult. And I I haven't talked like this
• 54:23
  ever in public, but it for running the wrist sounded like
• 54:25
  an old head. It's just uninspiring to me.
• 54:28
  I think though what because I was looking at that today and
• 54:32
  initial reaction was incredibly pissed off and the initial
• 54:35
  reaction was like, oh, this is what labels are concentrating on
• 54:38
  now it is. And but then I had like a little
• 54:41
  semi like peel behind the veil of the whole thing and I was
• 54:46
  like, no, one day when they've created this universe where
• 54:52
  which they're very close to creating, where the content
• 54:55
  creator there is king, the content creators will look at
• 55:02
  that $500 and then what they're giving the band in return for
• 55:06
  getting $500 and they're going to stop doing it.
• 55:08
  You think so? I think so because my.
• 55:10
  Gene will eat itself. Yes.
• 55:11
  Yeah, yeah. That's what I was because I was
• 55:14
  looking at and I was like, yeah, fuck that.
• 55:15
  Because of the because of the, you know, you artificially
• 55:19
  manufacturing the band to get big by using creators.
• 55:22
  But then I thought about it. It's like now they will become a
• 55:25
  time when these creators need much more than $500 to do that
• 55:28
  because they, they, they have their come to Jesus moment when
• 55:31
  they realized which I had and you would have had and all of us
• 55:34
  have as like, when are you able to get endorsed?
• 55:37
  You know, when you're like, I can provide to a brand.
• 55:41
  So give me free gear. Like, I think content creators
• 55:45
  are going to get to the point where they're like, no, I'm not
• 55:47
  doing that for $500. Might be a few years away.
• 55:50
  But it's changed. It's it the algorithm has
• 55:53
  changed the way that music sounds like I saw a band
• 55:57
  recently, a big band, and it was outside rock band, rock
• 56:03
  adjacent, heavy music band, whatever.
• 56:05
  And I'm sat there watching it and there's fire and cryo and
• 56:10
  all of the tropes and all of the stuff and lasers and there's
• 56:13
  15,000 people there. And I know, I know that 90% of
• 56:20
  what I was hearing was a computer.
• 56:22
  I know it. I mean, that's.
• 56:24
  Everything. There's a full band on stage and
• 56:27
  I'm not saying Underoath plays to a clique and we played it
• 56:30
  with there's backing, but there's five of us and
• 56:32
  everyone's doing something. So there's not like heavy, you
• 56:35
  know, Heavy. Heavy.
• 56:35
  I mean you, you can't even put yourself close to the band that
• 56:39
  you know. What's there but like?
• 56:40
  You have Chris. He and he's doing.
• 56:43
  These bands will not have Chris. That, Chris, will be the
• 56:45
  computer. Yeah, Chris does stuff he
• 56:47
  shouldn't even do live that he does live to prove a point, I
• 56:50
  think. But anyway.
• 56:50
  Are you talking about his marching?
• 56:52
  Well, no. Stage marching is incredible.
• 56:54
  Things that start a song that should be on a track because if
• 56:56
  he back fingers it, we're fucked.
• 56:58
  Yeah, so don't even put yourself in with these.
• 57:00
  Bands. But like, I knew like vocals.
• 57:03
  Like the only thing I could count for that was real on stage
• 57:06
  was drums. Like, and there's a full,
• 57:08
  there's five guys on stage, you know, when I was watching this
• 57:10
  band. And I think the algorithm has
• 57:12
  made that that way. Well, I saw people beefing the
• 57:17
  Oasis show because there was people complaining that it was
• 57:23
  just a band on stage. Oh yeah, no click no in ears
• 57:27
  those. Guys, which is like, so people
• 57:29
  are now to your point, people are now expecting it to be
• 57:34
  Universal Studios presents this man like I need I I kind of love
• 57:38
  like a big inflatable thing on stage, but like the people are
• 57:42
  expecting a spectacle. When I think that's what makes
• 57:45
  us old heads. Like I saw Chris Stapleton last
• 57:47
  year who's a huge country singer and it was just him and his
• 57:51
  band. There was they didn't wedges,
• 57:53
  there was 30,000 people. There was an out sold out
• 57:55
  Amphitheatre in Utah and he was so good.
• 57:58
  And I think the reason why it was so good is.
• 58:00
  Because you're old. No, because it was human and I
• 58:04
  wonder if the pendulum will swing back the other way where
• 58:06
  people are like demanding. Definitely be like it'll be like
• 58:08
  grunge. It'll be hope.
• 58:09
  So there'll be a tipping point soon where people want what
• 58:14
  happened with grunge after hair metal.
• 58:16
  Everyone was just like polished. There's polished and it was like
• 58:18
  Nirvana comes out and everyone's like, oh, this is gross.
• 58:21
  I like. It it does feel a little bit
• 58:23
  like we're in the 80s. Yeah, we're we're in hair metal.
• 58:26
  The looks, singing as high as you can, like fire smoke and
• 58:31
  mirrors, bands. I know bands, sexual misconduct.
• 58:36
  I know bands that don't have any business paying for pyro that
• 58:39
  have pyro, and we're just waiting for nobody to come
• 58:41
  along. People forget as well if you are
• 58:45
  and you're allowed to be this because I love to go and see a
• 58:47
  show, especially if I've got a fucking chair.
• 58:49
  Oh, sit me down and give me like a spectacle.
• 58:52
  Like, I love that I'm. Going to Oasis at the end of
• 58:54
  next month in a chair. Hell yeah yeah in Chicago, Fuck
• 58:57
  yeah. But like, people forget a
• 59:01
  spectacle that you may need to see in order to buy the tickets
• 59:06
  takes money out of the band's pocket.
• 59:10
  Like these huge venues. Like who do you think's paying
• 59:13
  for the pyro and paying for the big fucking dragon and roller
• 59:18
  coaster and whatever else they have is the band.
• 59:20
  The band is getting less money for the show because they're
• 59:23
  spending it on fucking fire. Everyone that plays Alexandra
• 59:26
  Palace, like in the UK, that's like the bit the big one, you
• 59:29
  know, Ally Pally Exactly. I deliberately didn't say it but
• 59:33
  like almost everyone that plays there cuts even, they break
• 59:38
  even. Oh yeah because they have to.
• 59:41
  Because the room is so fucking big and it's all standing.
• 59:43
  They have to put on a show and the cost of the production is
• 59:46
  normally the same as what their guarantee would be.
• 59:48
  So it's like a break even. Oh, I mean I see it.
• 59:51
  I looking at the spreadsheet the other day.
• 59:52
  We have a semi truck and screens and you've seen it.
• 59:55
  It's all the crap and it's part of me wonders would people come
• 1:00:00
  if it was a back backdrop in US playing.
• 1:00:02
  That's what I mean I. Don't know, I wish they would.
• 1:00:05
  I'd be sick. You make loads.
• 1:00:06
  And loads of money. But I, you know, I, I love like
• 1:00:08
  all that Bruce Springsteen and I love all the 90s Oasis and Pulp
• 1:00:12
  and Primal Scream. And you go see those bands and
• 1:00:15
  it's just, I mean, Oasis has screens and stuff, but it's just
• 1:00:18
  the songs and you're there to see the songs.
• 1:00:20
  And I, I crave getting back to that because my life is the
• 1:00:24
  songs. My life isn't.
• 1:00:26
  I just told you, I'm not the business guy.
• 1:00:28
  I don't give a shit. Like it's it's not interesting
• 1:00:31
  to me. And and and even I've flung the
• 1:00:34
  other way as a is is a spectator.
• 1:00:35
  Like I want to see the songs, you know what I mean?
• 1:00:39
  And if you have production, I want it to be like, you know
• 1:00:41
  what the coolest production I've ever seen is is 2001 Dillinger
• 1:00:46
  Escape Plan, Furnace Fest, Dmitri blowing fire in his own
• 1:00:50
  mouth. And they threw the cabinets off
• 1:00:52
  the stage and it was mayhem. Yeah.
• 1:00:55
  And it stuck with. Me.
• 1:00:56
  But then even that now, though, I know even that now is
• 1:01:00
  overplayed and I'm not going to name any names.
• 1:01:02
  There's bands. Oh yeah.
• 1:01:04
  Oh, I'm going to sit on festival.
• 1:01:05
  I wonder which of these bands will be climbing the rigging
• 1:01:09
  today. Even that's got but, and that's
• 1:01:11
  me being an old head because I have to put myself back.
• 1:01:14
  Remember the first time I ever saw Syninger with Greg was
• 1:01:18
  Reading Festival sick and he shit in a Tesco bag on stage and
• 1:01:23
  flung it into the crowd and I went.
• 1:01:25
  That's the best thing I've ever fucking seen.
• 1:01:27
  But but you liked it though, because it was primal and it was
• 1:01:30
  real. And now, you know, like if I go
• 1:01:34
  see Bring Me the Horizon, love that band, I know what I'm
• 1:01:37
  getting, it's going to be insane.
• 1:01:39
  You know it's going to look like a.
• 1:01:41
  Fucking I mean that. I feel like stuff like that,
• 1:01:44
  though. I I do love that, like the Bring
• 1:01:47
  Me stage show, it's great. I fucking love it.
• 1:01:50
  It's great. I can moan about it all day.
• 1:01:51
  But the songs are great too though and I wonder what it
• 1:01:54
  would be like if they played they put on Sale tomorrow, Sip
• 1:01:58
  Eternal only front to back and you went and it was just a
• 1:02:03
  banner. You'd love it.
• 1:02:05
  I'd love it and you'd love it, Madison.
• 1:02:07
  That's the thing. I would love.
• 1:02:09
  It you would love it, you would. No production.
• 1:02:11
  It's just the band and a backdrop.
• 1:02:12
  None of the screens, none of the thing that says like welcome to
• 1:02:17
  the show. Honestly, like I think it adds a
• 1:02:20
  lot to the performance, but ultimately I that wasn't part of
• 1:02:26
  bringing the horizon when I was listening to them in my on my
• 1:02:29
  headset. So like it really I feel.
• 1:02:32
  Like the music has to come. The music.
• 1:02:34
  It's begun though, and the point I'm trying to make is the music
• 1:02:37
  has come alongside all of this stuff.
• 1:02:40
  I see what you're saying. I definitely.
• 1:02:41
  Am when we got Spencer and I sang on the new Bring me record
• 1:02:45
  and we did cut the vocals a mile from here wow it's out.
• 1:02:49
  It's been out, you know, it's yeah, yeah, it's it's out.
• 1:02:51
  But like when I opened the. Files I've heard you listen to
• 1:02:55
  the song, She knows what it is. When I opened the files, I was
• 1:02:57
  like wow, like it feels like a movie, like the track is so it's
• 1:03:03
  so dense in it was. It a Jordan?
• 1:03:05
  Or was it? A No, it was a it was a Zach.
• 1:03:08
  This is post Jordan. Funny thing about that is, is we
• 1:03:12
  started to we started picking the song apart and we had Ali on
• 1:03:15
  FaceTime and he was on a boat in the middle of the ocean in
• 1:03:19
  Spain. It was wild.
• 1:03:20
  But Spencer looks at me, he goes, Jordan's not there
• 1:03:24
  anymore. And I was like, what?
• 1:03:26
  Oh, while we were, like, doing, Yeah.
• 1:03:28
  Well, Oliver had hung up at this point, but he was like, Jordan
• 1:03:31
  didn't work on this record. He could tell, I couldn't tell.
• 1:03:34
  But like, it's just the music has come alongside and that's
• 1:03:37
  not just them, it's everybody. The music has come alongside the
• 1:03:41
  like. Like I said, the band I saw a
• 1:03:42
  few a few months ago where I was like, this is so just grandiose.
• 1:03:47
  The music has come alongside the production and that scares me a
• 1:03:49
  little bit too. I.
• 1:03:50
  Feel like bring me a bad. We picked a bad example as well,
• 1:03:53
  and I don't want to throw anyone else under the bus because Bring
• 1:03:56
  Me's music is so fucking good. It's so good that we can't
• 1:04:01
  really like. I can think of bands that we
• 1:04:03
  could have of. Course I mean a left turn here I
• 1:04:05
  think with Bring me and I think the reason why Bring Me is big
• 1:04:09
  is as big as they are is because of the lyrics.
• 1:04:14
  I believe that like that dude is so talented.
• 1:04:18
  He's. Also a fucking rock star.
• 1:04:19
  He's a fucking star, but what he's saying is so cathartic for
• 1:04:24
  people. I think.
• 1:04:25
  Like that doomed song Dude. When I heard that I was like,
• 1:04:27
  that's. The truth.
• 1:04:29
  Like fucking records. Unbelievable.
• 1:04:30
  It's unbelievable. But like, yeah, I feel like the
• 1:04:33
  music has, it's started to come alongside of the production in a
• 1:04:36
  way, you know what I mean? Like, I hear this sentence a lot
• 1:04:39
  in the studio. This would be a good part.
• 1:04:41
  Live like we never used to talk like that.
• 1:04:44
  I mean we do, but it's more like I can see a circle pit here or
• 1:04:48
  like a jumping thing. Not like this is the part where
• 1:04:51
  the robot dragon comes down and pretends to eat the drama.
• 1:04:56
  Yeah, it's weird. It's weird.
• 1:04:58
  And at the risk of spending 30 minutes talking about being an
• 1:05:00
  old head, I guess I just am. I guess I just AM.
• 1:05:04
  And it's OK, you know, like. I'd like to be in one of those
• 1:05:07
  bands though, to have the crazy shit going.
• 1:05:10
  On. I don't and I don't.
• 1:05:11
  I say same. But that's not true.
• 1:05:12
  We have quite a bit of crazy shit.
• 1:05:13
  Yeah. You have crazy shit.
• 1:05:14
  Let's talk about that tour that we did together, because that's
• 1:05:17
  the last time I've fucking seen you.
• 1:05:19
  It was. We've met on that tour.
• 1:05:21
  This is a lineup you could never, ever do right now.
• 1:05:25
  Oh no, no, we'd be opening somehow.
• 1:05:27
  On the road, no, we would still but Underoath, Spirit box,
• 1:05:32
  Battle and stray. Yeah, and I remember when we got
• 1:05:34
  the off so E tid dropped out. E Tid dropped out, it was US
• 1:05:39
  Spirit Box and E Tid, it was the opener.
• 1:05:42
  And they dropped out. They broke up.
• 1:05:44
  They broke up so they dropped out and ROP broke up after such
• 1:05:49
  a good album as well. Crazy.
• 1:05:51
  And then you replaced E Tid with Bad Omens and Stray.
• 1:05:55
  Because we were like, we're going to give people the bang
• 1:05:58
  for their buck. Let's do 2 bands.
• 1:06:00
  And you fucking did. So I remember when we got the
• 1:06:03
  offer, the last thing I'd ever I'd heard about that omens was
• 1:06:07
  the small logo gate stuff with the Amy affliction.
• 1:06:10
  Do you remember that I? Do and I was just like like, oh,
• 1:06:13
  this band back then, I was band salsa premium Horizon, like the
• 1:06:17
  small logo, I think kind of funny.
• 1:06:18
  I could kind of see that point. But also it's kind of funny They
• 1:06:21
  made a shirt. I think it was.
• 1:06:23
  I remember they played it off really.
• 1:06:24
  Good, yeah. And I remember I was going like,
• 1:06:26
  we're not playing, we're not going to play before that band.
• 1:06:31
  And then I think I said it, I was like, I'm not playing before
• 1:06:34
  that band or some someone said it and Tom goes go look at their
• 1:06:37
  monthly listeners. And then I pulled it up and it
• 1:06:39
  was like 2 million. And I was like, I guess I'm
• 1:06:42
  playing before that band. And then they're like the
• 1:06:44
  fucking biggest thing on earth. Which pair box the biggest thing
• 1:06:47
  on earth. You guys tour was fucking crazy.
• 1:06:49
  My favorite tour I've ever done. We played with them, it was
• 1:06:53
  great. We played with Bad Omens Friday
• 1:06:55
  in a festival and we played. We were direct support to them
• 1:06:59
  and a. Lot can happen in three years
• 1:07:01
  we. Were direct support to them and
• 1:07:02
  it was cool, but it was cool because they're the same.
• 1:07:06
  They were like so happy we were there and yeah, they're so
• 1:07:08
  fucking. They had fire and fucking.
• 1:07:10
  I mean, dude, it was like the drum riser was 8 feet tall, you
• 1:07:14
  know, the whole, the whole thing.
• 1:07:16
  And it was cool to hear Spencer like unpack it though on stage.
• 1:07:20
  He was like 3 years ago. We took this band on tours at
• 1:07:22
  two or four and there's, I mean, there's 25,000 people.
• 1:07:26
  There was like a small festival, you know it was.
• 1:07:28
  Wild. You must feel like like a like
• 1:07:30
  proud dad. You can take it both ways
• 1:07:32
  though. You know, like we could, we
• 1:07:35
  would, we would, we wouldn't headline over spirit box now
• 1:07:37
  either. You know, we might, we might Co
• 1:07:40
  headline in certain places, but we they, they 90% would head 95%
• 1:07:44
  would headline over us but. I think that's a testament to
• 1:07:48
  you just having your finger on the pulse back then when you
• 1:07:50
  booked that tour. This man's going to be big.
• 1:07:52
  This man's going to be big. Guess what?
• 1:07:53
  The two biggest ones. But I like that about our, I
• 1:07:57
  feel like our band is kind of that band where, you know,
• 1:08:01
  we're, we do this, you know, we're kind of just doing our
• 1:08:03
  thing and bands come and go. And that tour was so was so
• 1:08:08
  great, though, because it was one of our first, it was our
• 1:08:10
  first after COVID. Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  That's why that tour was so great.
• 1:08:14
  We did one after COVID and we all got COVID and I was going to
• 1:08:16
  quit the band and then we got your offer.
• 1:08:18
  You got COVID for quitting the you were in what?
• 1:08:20
  We did 1 tour like November 21 that was 22.
• 1:08:24
  Where were you going to February 20?
• 1:08:25
  2 because we did 1 tour in November 21 I got COVID on tour.
• 1:08:29
  I didn't enjoy it and I was like, I'm going to fucking quit
• 1:08:31
  the band. And then I got home and then we
• 1:08:33
  got your offer and I was like, let me do this tour.
• 1:08:35
  That was a great tour. I like I'm going to quit the
• 1:08:37
  band like every. That's your thing, huh?
• 1:08:39
  Not, I don't say it out loud. I'm not the guy that's like, I'm
• 1:08:42
  going to fucking quit the band. I'm in my head like I'm going to
• 1:08:45
  quit the band. That's it.
• 1:08:45
  And then I don't. Because you don't like the
• 1:08:47
  discomfort of like certain things or why?
• 1:08:51
  Yeah, I fucking I When we're on a bus.
• 1:08:55
  It's the physicality of what I do combined with not having
• 1:09:01
  enough money to pay a drum tech, which I now just pay.
• 1:09:05
  I think that tour was the first tour that I paid.
• 1:09:07
  Gabe was there. Gabe to drum tech for me.
• 1:09:10
  Probably why I started having fun.
• 1:09:11
  We had a blast. The amount of work and uncomfort
• 1:09:15
  that I do to the return of the money that I get in
• 1:09:22
  collaboration with opportunities missed from being on tour was
• 1:09:27
  just like, why am I doing this? And I just continue to do it.
• 1:09:30
  Luckily the band got a little bit bigger so but that's why I
• 1:09:33
  mostly don't want to be in a band because it's uncomfortable
• 1:09:37
  and then I come home with less money than I would have made if
• 1:09:39
  I stayed at home. Yeah, that's hard.
• 1:09:42
  It's hard, man. I, you know, that tour in
• 1:09:44
  particular was just a, it felt like a weird hinge point because
• 1:09:48
  you have these bands and I knew like a weekend watching Bad
• 1:09:52
  Omens. I was like, oh shit.
• 1:09:54
  Like in a good way. This band's going to be massive,
• 1:09:57
  you know? And Spirit Box was, and they
• 1:09:59
  probably could headline that tour, let's be honest.
• 1:10:02
  Close to I mean it was it was definitely there was no walk
• 1:10:06
  outs. So you're definitely it could
• 1:10:09
  have been a Co headliner, but there was no, it's not like
• 1:10:11
  they. Were it was their first full
• 1:10:13
  U.S. tour though. Crazy because they're an
• 1:10:15
  anomaly. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:17
  I mean, but that tour, it did feel like a hinge point because
• 1:10:19
  COVID happened. We got COVID on the tour,
• 1:10:22
  Spencer and. I.
• 1:10:23
  Can't. Spencer and Chris and I, we rode
• 1:10:25
  around in a rental car for a while.
• 1:10:27
  It's fucking terrible. I remember just the unofficial,
• 1:10:29
  the thing that people don't talk about on tours in these days.
• 1:10:32
  I remember Spirit Box got covered actually.
• 1:10:34
  They they dropped a couple of shows.
• 1:10:35
  But like, the unofficial thing was just like, oh, you've, you
• 1:10:39
  don't feel well, just go sit over there.
• 1:10:41
  Don't fucking test. Don't fucking.
• 1:10:42
  Oh yeah, I mean, it's 10 years to say you can't get COVID or
• 1:10:45
  you don't test. I mean, it's stupid.
• 1:10:47
  But yeah, no one did that. Everyone did everything by the
• 1:10:49
  book. Everything by the book.
• 1:10:50
  No, we, we did test and we had it.
• 1:10:52
  So we got Spencer and Chris and I drove a rental car for five
• 1:10:57
  days around. It was horrible on that tour.
• 1:10:59
  And then we would go in the back door wouldn't sound you know,
• 1:11:02
  the whole it was fucking terrible.
• 1:11:03
  So that tour felt like a weird hinge point because it was so
• 1:11:07
  fun. But then it was filled with
• 1:11:08
  like, is this game going to stay on the road?
• 1:11:11
  I thought that the whole time. I was like, we're going to lose
• 1:11:14
  our asses because if everyone gets COVID and we have to start
• 1:11:16
  cancelling shows, you know what I mean?
• 1:11:19
  Like, what are we going to do? It was a mess.
• 1:11:20
  Now look at us. Everything's back.
• 1:11:22
  You're back, baby. Everything's back.
• 1:11:24
  No one gives a fuck. I.
• 1:11:25
  Haven't even thought about a COVID test in so long.
• 1:11:27
  I did one, when did I do one? I wanted to get out or something
• 1:11:32
  and I felt a bit sick. I can't remember what it.
• 1:11:36
  Was a COVID test, now it is a scapegoat.
• 1:11:39
  If you, you know. You know what was sick very like
• 1:11:43
  back in COVID touring days when there was someone like, you
• 1:11:46
  know, and you don't really want them backstage, but you don't
• 1:11:49
  want to be a wanker and be like, I don't not give them a a A
• 1:11:53
  because they are, you know, deserving of a a a.
• 1:11:55
  You could just be like, it's kind of tight because of the
• 1:11:58
  COVID restriction. So I can give you GA ticket, but
• 1:12:00
  you're not going to be able to come backstage.
• 1:12:02
  There's nothing harder. There's nothing harder in our
• 1:12:04
  job in my opinion. Then fuck the travel, fuck jet
• 1:12:08
  lag. When you're playing in a
• 1:12:10
  hometown show or city where you know everyone and you've got
• 1:12:12
  like 500 people backstage, that shit is the hardest.
• 1:12:16
  Come off stage and everyone's talking at you.
• 1:12:18
  It's not just that. It's like the, it's like the
• 1:12:20
  days leading up to it. Can I get a spot?
• 1:12:21
  Can I get a spot? And you give everybody a spot.
• 1:12:23
  Then you realize they all converge when they get there and
• 1:12:26
  they text you and you're like, well, what do I do now?
• 1:12:29
  Like in you, you know your normal day is helter skelter you
• 1:12:32
  can't like. Yeah, I do fucking hate a
• 1:12:34
  hometown show, although it's actually the only time I get to
• 1:12:36
  see my parents mostly these days, really.
• 1:12:39
  Christmas. Christmas and when we play.
• 1:12:41
  You think they'll start coming here?
• 1:12:42
  I've been trying to get this is a weird thing.
• 1:12:44
  They watch this as well. So hi guys.
• 1:12:46
  They got a dog and the dogs are kind of old, but not like really
• 1:12:48
  old. And they're like, you should
• 1:12:50
  come at Christmas, you should come in, you should probably
• 1:12:53
  come in April because the UK is still shitty wherever.
• 1:12:56
  And it's fucking beautiful here, except for the Tornadoes.
• 1:12:59
  But like, and they're like, we're waiting for the dog,
• 1:13:02
  waiting for the dog to die before we go anywhere.
• 1:13:06
  And I'm like, motherfuckers. You hold us, what do they do?
• 1:13:08
  You might die before they live. You from Brighton?
• 1:13:11
  From Reading North, that's why you're Reading Festival.
• 1:13:15
  The North, you're in Northland. I'm not in the north as fucking
• 1:13:18
  West. I'm thinking, never mind.
• 1:13:20
  Yeah, it's wet. It's.
• 1:13:21
  The last subway stop on the Elizabeth line I.
• 1:13:26
  Love England? You really do.
• 1:13:28
  Don't. You really do.
• 1:13:28
  I would live there tomorrow. You want to pay 48% tax on
• 1:13:32
  anything over 48 grand a year? Is that really what it is?
• 1:13:35
  Yeah, 48%. Or air in Scotland.
• 1:13:39
  It's like I think. As you move from Scotland to
• 1:13:41
  here. Right.
• 1:13:41
  When you hit 48, so it's 20% up to 4848 to 100 is 45% and then
• 1:13:54
  anything over 100 I'm pretty sure goes up to 48.
• 1:13:58
  But then also at 100 grand, not that I'm earning anywhere near
• 1:14:02
  this guys. At 100 grand you lose your tax
• 1:14:06
  free allowance. So you technically lose another
• 1:14:08
  12 grand there. So there's some weird loophole,
• 1:14:11
  not like an A bad loophole in the UK where you're actually
• 1:14:15
  better off making 75 grand a year than you are making 100
• 1:14:19
  because stuff you lose at 100. Yeah.
• 1:14:22
  That's wild dude. We got a healthcare system and
• 1:14:25
  all that stuff. Like, I'm, you know, I'm not
• 1:14:26
  saying taxes are bad, but they they could maybe set like 100
• 1:14:33
  grand these days doesn't give you what 100 grand gave you in
• 1:14:36
  like 1980. So like they do change the where
• 1:14:40
  the splits are, but like 48% put out like 500 grand, put out a
• 1:14:47
  million on where Like because you'd get more, you'd get more.
• 1:14:51
  Make it fucking 60 billion. I don't give a shit.
• 1:14:54
  But yeah. So does that change you?
• 1:14:58
  I mean 48% is. Could you live with 48% of your
• 1:15:02
  income halved right now? Could you live comfortably?
• 1:15:05
  No, not here. I mean.
• 1:15:08
  I mean. But if you get hit by a car,
• 1:15:09
  you're not going to pay for it. So there are, I mean, the
• 1:15:11
  problem is swings. The problem is America is the
• 1:15:13
  health insurance. My health insurance is $1000 a
• 1:15:15
  month. Is that for both of you and the
• 1:15:16
  kids? Yeah, I'm learning.
• 1:15:18
  That's quite good. It is, yeah, it is good.
• 1:15:21
  It's a the healthcare thing is wild.
• 1:15:24
  Like it's insane. That's a basic human right.
• 1:15:27
  It's that's the American healthcare system is terrifying.
• 1:15:30
  It really is. They're trying to make the UK
• 1:15:33
  one like the US one very slowly and but then when?
• 1:15:35
  You go when you go, when you go to countries that have
• 1:15:39
  healthcare. Like I hear from people like I
• 1:15:42
  broke my leg and I need an operation.
• 1:15:43
  I've been waiting for six weeks. That's crazy.
• 1:15:46
  We don't do that here. I can.
• 1:15:47
  Why not pay you? Because I like, I'm like, I'm on
• 1:15:51
  two sides of the coin here with the UK healthcare thing.
• 1:15:56
  Because I broke my back. Can't remember that.
• 1:16:00
  And they put me on a waiting list for a physio which was six
• 1:16:05
  months long and I spoke to. Physio as well like a.
• 1:16:09
  Like a physical therapist, they put me on the waiting list.
• 1:16:13
  It was six months on the waiting list.
• 1:16:14
  I spoke to my friend who was a physical therapist on like day
• 1:16:17
  2. And I were like, if you don't
• 1:16:19
  start doing physical therapy right now, you're going to have
• 1:16:22
  chair. Yeah, you're going to have
• 1:16:23
  arthritis, all this stuff. So I end up paying out of my own
• 1:16:27
  pocket to get the physical, physical therapy.
• 1:16:28
  I had the. Option to do that?
• 1:16:30
  Yeah, private. Yeah, I just went.
• 1:16:31
  I just fucking went to a place. Six months rolls along because I
• 1:16:37
  was like, you know, I still need to do the physical therapy.
• 1:16:39
  So I'm like, let me catch up on this waiting listing.
• 1:16:42
  Go and ask if I'm on the waiting list where I am on the waiting
• 1:16:45
  list. Oh, you're not on the waiting
• 1:16:46
  list. Someone just didn't put me on
• 1:16:47
  there and there's no way of tracking it.
• 1:16:48
  You would have been fucked. I would have been fucked.
• 1:16:50
  I wouldn't be sat here right now.
• 1:16:51
  I'd be by wood. But Charles Xavier maybe.
• 1:16:55
  But like, that's fine. It's a comic book character.
• 1:16:58
  So like so like and then another time tried to myself and when to
• 1:17:08
  try and get therapy after, you know, such a big thing and again
• 1:17:13
  put me on the waiting list again and it wasn't on the fucking
• 1:17:15
  waiting list. So like how?
• 1:17:16
  Long was the initial wait for the therapist.
• 1:17:18
  Again, I think the sick they, I think what they're doing,
• 1:17:21
  because they're trying to secretly privatize the NHS is
• 1:17:25
  they'll tell you, yeah, you're on the waiting list is 6 months.
• 1:17:29
  Six months is the blanket figure.
• 1:17:32
  I think maybe you're never even on it because they just want you
• 1:17:35
  to then go private. So then when they finally come
• 1:17:39
  and they go, hey guys, the NHS is fucked because we burnt it to
• 1:17:43
  the ground, wouldn't it be nice if you could just pay and
• 1:17:47
  everything would work like it used to?
• 1:17:49
  Like that's what they're trying to do.
• 1:17:51
  There's a very slow thing and it's involving possibly millions
• 1:17:56
  of deaths. But like, that's where I think
• 1:17:59
  it's going. So I can't afford healthcare
• 1:18:02
  here right now, but I have to. I'm going to have to fucking do
• 1:18:05
  it. You have to, yeah, you'll have
• 1:18:07
  to go through the National Health Marketplace.
• 1:18:09
  Yeah, I've recently learned this.
• 1:18:11
  It's that's. Yeah.
• 1:18:13
  So are you in therapy now? No, I'm good now, bro.
• 1:18:17
  It's a lifelong thing. That's an interesting thing
• 1:18:21
  because therapy, like my insurance, I'm in therapy, you
• 1:18:25
  know, and my insurance doesn't cover it at all.
• 1:18:27
  So over we pay a little over a grand a month for three of us.
• 1:18:32
  My son is on his My son, my oldest child is is from my first
• 1:18:36
  marriage and he's on his mom's. But so my wife and I and my
• 1:18:40
  daughter are a little over a grand a month and I can't.
• 1:18:43
  I have to pay out of pocket for therapy.
• 1:18:45
  How much is therapy A? $100.00 an hour.
• 1:18:47
  How often did you go? Once a week.
• 1:18:49
  Yeah, fuck yeah. A lot of money.
• 1:18:51
  That's 400 bucks a month. That's a lot of money, bro.
• 1:18:53
  It's 400 bucks a month. But the alternative is like, and
• 1:18:58
  sometimes I hate therapy. You know what I mean?
• 1:19:00
  I think that that's something that people don't talk about
• 1:19:02
  with therapy enough is, oh, it's made me feel so much better.
• 1:19:06
  You hear that a lot, then you hear the success stories.
• 1:19:08
  But sometimes it's like it feels like going to the gym.
• 1:19:11
  Sometimes you wake up like today I had to run a 5K and do all
• 1:19:14
  these push ups. It was all my thing to do today
• 1:19:16
  and I just did not want to do it did.
• 1:19:18
  You do it. Oh.
• 1:19:18
  Yeah, I was so sore when I woke up.
• 1:19:21
  You know, I've been playing drums all fucking week.
• 1:19:23
  But like, you have to the therapy thing you have to do and
• 1:19:26
  then to to pay for something that you feel like it's work.
• 1:19:29
  It's really difficult, you know what I mean?
• 1:19:31
  Like you have to go do it and you have to do the work, but
• 1:19:34
  it's difficult. And that's, I think therapy
• 1:19:36
  should be the first thing. It's basic it with basic health
• 1:19:40
  here. Why isn't it included?
• 1:19:42
  I don't know. I had talked to a guy, it was at
• 1:19:44
  Joe Rogan's Comedy club couple weeks ago and there's a bar
• 1:19:48
  connected to called Mitzi's. It's like a private bar.
• 1:19:52
  It's open through the week. But on Monday nights they do
• 1:19:53
  kill Tony, do the show and it's private.
• 1:19:56
  Like Woody Harrelson was in there.
• 1:19:57
  It was wild. I met a guy at Mitzi's.
• 1:20:00
  He told me he swallowed us in. What happened?
• 1:20:05
  He said he was sick as a dog. Yeah, a couple say that would
• 1:20:07
  fucking. Can you imagine?
• 1:20:09
  I mean, I can imagine I I went for a stage of playing with them
• 1:20:12
  on stage. Oh hell yeah.
• 1:20:14
  But like the amount of times I've tried to chew gum on stage
• 1:20:17
  and inhaled it, like I think it's asking for trouble.
• 1:20:21
  How many of these do you do a day?
• 1:20:22
  I'm. Vape.
• 1:20:23
  So I use them when I'm on the podcast, I use them when I'm
• 1:20:26
  playing. That's it.
• 1:20:27
  But I am thinking, I haven't even said this to my beloved
• 1:20:33
  fucking over there in the corner.
• 1:20:35
  I'm the 15th. Look, it's the 15th.
• 1:20:37
  I'm good thinking about quitting vaping on the 28th of November.
• 1:20:43
  Why the? Last ratio because I think I
• 1:20:46
  could do. I think I could not do it if I
• 1:20:49
  wasn't touring. Andrew Huberman, who's a genius.
• 1:20:53
  Have you been on that one yet? No, Shut up.
• 1:20:56
  He said this is the. Goofy one.
• 1:20:58
  He said this is the best way to get nicotine. 100% yeah.
• 1:21:01
  It's like not bad for. You it's not, it's a nootropic.
• 1:21:03
  It's literally not. I mean, unless you have like a
• 1:21:05
  heart problem or something, but like it's, it's literally not
• 1:21:07
  bad. I have what do they call it like
• 1:21:09
  object addiction or whatever you know the phrase but I need to
• 1:21:13
  hit my vape all the time. Or oral fixation.
• 1:21:17
  You said at the same time oral fixation.
• 1:21:19
  Yeah. So I I just need to hit the
• 1:21:21
  vape. Why didn't you just look at my
• 1:21:23
  girlfriend and say oral fixation like that?
• 1:21:26
  I just knew. I don't know.
• 1:21:28
  See, I have a weird thing with. Front of me.
• 1:21:30
  From being like a redneck, I have a thing with these where I
• 1:21:34
  I spit into a. Spit.
• 1:21:35
  Do you have a spitoon? No, I just spit into this.
• 1:21:37
  I just spit like I can't. You can swallow it.
• 1:21:39
  It won't hurt you. But I just, it's, that's the
• 1:21:42
  oral bit of it for me. I spit this bit out.
• 1:21:44
  I like I quit smoking so long ago and then I.
• 1:21:48
  Quit in 2018, Yeah. Yeah, something something like
• 1:21:51
  maybe even more now. I think I quit in like 2015.
• 1:21:53
  The vaping thing is slippery. It's slippery.
• 1:21:56
  I started on a tour because I was fucking bold, bored and I
• 1:21:59
  didn't drink for a tour and I needed a vice and I was like,
• 1:22:02
  I'm going to buy that Tim ever since then.
• 1:22:04
  Tim from our band, the guitar player, he quit smoking when I
• 1:22:08
  did and is still vaping a jewel. It's bad.
• 1:22:11
  I don't know what's in that shit.
• 1:22:13
  Oh, no one does. They're doing, they're doing the
• 1:22:15
  same thing that they did when smoking came out, being like
• 1:22:17
  it's fine. And then in 30 years time, we've
• 1:22:20
  all got lung cancer. We're going to find out.
• 1:22:22
  This is killing us too. Whatever, I don't know.
• 1:22:24
  It's definitely not to the extent of I'm putting a battery
• 1:22:28
  from a bit of plastic made in China and some flavour into my
• 1:22:31
  lungs. It's.
• 1:22:31
  Wild. Putting anything in your lungs
• 1:22:33
  is wild. So I have to do a sinus rinse
• 1:22:36
  because I've got a fucked up nose.
• 1:22:37
  I have to do it every single day and at night when I do it, it
• 1:22:42
  tastes like whatever I've been vaping.
• 1:22:45
  All and all that is just living in my nose.
• 1:22:49
  It must be in the lungs. Must be fucking everywhere.
• 1:22:51
  I vaped when you could, like when you.
• 1:22:53
  It was like a giant robot Dick. You know, like the.
• 1:22:55
  Steampunk thing. Yeah, I that's when I did it.
• 1:22:57
  And you, I mean, you would blow. You would take the amount of
• 1:23:01
  fucking yeah. It was like a.
• 1:23:03
  Bong and it would be like banana cream pie dream fucking rainbow
• 1:23:09
  surprise. Like it was wild.
• 1:23:11
  I loved it, it was so sad. Terrible for you.
• 1:23:14
  I still love it like but I the. Culture has changed now because
• 1:23:18
  you guys are vaping nicotine salt now, which is what this is.
• 1:23:21
  OK, what's the different? What were you?
• 1:23:23
  It used to be it was nicotine in glycol.
• 1:23:26
  It was different somehow. Oh so glycol is the one that was
• 1:23:31
  causing like fucking? Propylene glycol lung shit,
• 1:23:34
  that's what made fucking clouds. That's.
• 1:23:35
  The one that you squeezed and. Remember, because yours now,
• 1:23:39
  your bait now is what's little. Yeah, pull this up, geek bar.
• 1:23:42
  Give me a fucking endorsement. In fact, don't, because it's
• 1:23:44
  terrible for. Me.
• 1:23:45
  Those are disposable, right? Yeah, banned in the UK because
• 1:23:49
  imagine a billion of these just sat there after they've been
• 1:23:52
  used. It's crazy.
• 1:23:54
  It should be banned, so should all your food.
• 1:23:56
  But I'm still here. I'm still smoking a fucking.
• 1:23:58
  He's an American dude. I'm.
• 1:24:00
  Getting a fucking Mcgriddle that doesn't exist in the UK.
• 1:24:03
  What's oh, the McDonald's? Blew my fucking.
• 1:24:06
  Mind, I've never had one. It's like, what is it?
• 1:24:08
  What's the Mcgriddle? Pancake I get a sausage, egg and
• 1:24:12
  cheese one. That's what you.
• 1:24:14
  Get in a in a pancake sandwich. No, no.
• 1:24:18
  I'm not a one person. You have to be awake before like
• 1:24:21
  10:30 to go get to McDonald's to get it, and I'm not.
• 1:24:24
  No, she's not there, but sometimes, are you?
• 1:24:26
  A creature of the night. Look, look, you're like.
• 1:24:30
  You're going to go to bed at 4:00 AM tonight.
• 1:24:33
  That's been consistently. Yeah, I, I, I fall asleep at
• 1:24:36
  about two and then I'll like if I stir and wake up, she said.
• 1:24:41
  Let me. Scare you right now?
• 1:24:42
  I get up at 5:30. Oh, you've, because you've been
• 1:24:45
  on all these fucking podcasts. No, I.
• 1:24:48
  You got a kid. My life is so busy that if I
• 1:24:51
  want to go to the gym and I want to sit on my ass for an hour and
• 1:24:54
  drink a cup of coffee, it's got to be then.
• 1:24:57
  I love it. See, I've fucked myself with
• 1:24:59
  this, but in a nice way because my whole life, same as you, I
• 1:25:03
  got sleeping issues right? I think I've realized I'm
• 1:25:08
  actually a night owl and I could do with going to bed later and
• 1:25:13
  waking up slightly later. So at the moment I go to bed at
• 1:25:15
  2:00 and I wake up at 10 and I still get enough shit done in
• 1:25:19
  the day. I could start at the studio like
• 1:25:20
  my my. The artist will be there
• 1:25:22
  tomorrow at 10:30. See, that's what I used to do in
• 1:25:25
  the UK. I'd go to bed early and I'd wake
• 1:25:28
  up early, but sometimes I couldn't sleep.
• 1:25:30
  Because we're here, I don't worry about super early tonight
• 1:25:31
  because I'll have to have dinner still.
• 1:25:32
  But like I usually go to bed at I was asleep unconscious at 9:15
• 1:25:38
  last night. That's crazy.
• 1:25:40
  Yeah, kind of sick. Because what I love is when you
• 1:25:42
  wake up in the morning. This is really Fifi woo woo
• 1:25:44
  shit. When you wake up in the morning
• 1:25:46
  early, the day is new. It's barely like everyone's
• 1:25:52
  asleep and it's you and your fucking thoughts.
• 1:25:56
  Yeah, but there's this. You get that at 2:00 AM and it's
• 1:25:59
  cool and dark. Night mode bro.
• 1:26:03
  I just don't have any night mode stuff.
• 1:26:05
  Like my schedule flips on tour, obviously.
• 1:26:08
  Like we go to bed two or three in the morning and get up to 10
• 1:26:11
  just because there's nothing to do early in the morning.
• 1:26:14
  Most of the time the bus is still moving at 5:00 AM and I
• 1:26:16
  being awake is the. Worst.
• 1:26:18
  Being awake when the bus is moving.
• 1:26:19
  I would rather I'd rather walk to the show.
• 1:26:22
  It's horrible because you have to shit and you have to fucking.
• 1:26:25
  You can't. A lot of it is just putting off
• 1:26:27
  that morning shit, isn't it? If I go to bed later, I can wake
• 1:26:30
  up. By the time I wake up and need
• 1:26:32
  to shit, we're at the venue. I can.
• 1:26:34
  Share I've worked this out too. I drink a good amount of water
• 1:26:38
  at home and I've been I've cut out alcohol.
• 1:26:41
  Except for like date nights at home, I don't drink.
• 1:26:44
  I brought you a really nice bottle of bourbon as a Welcome
• 1:26:46
  to America thing. It's in my truck to let me
• 1:26:48
  forget. It that's cute should be here,
• 1:26:51
  though it should. Be really nice.
• 1:26:52
  I drink water at home like you should a lot of water, but on
• 1:26:55
  tour I consume so much water. Like I go through 5 or 6 bottles
• 1:27:01
  at the show and not that's not just for the the aerobicness of
• 1:27:05
  it all, it's for singing. And I have that added peace.
• 1:27:09
  So in the morning, what you don't realize is when you flood
• 1:27:12
  your system with like 15 bottles of water in a day, you're going
• 1:27:15
  to shit your brains out the next day.
• 1:27:17
  It does, it's natural. So I I flipped the schedule.
• 1:27:21
  You don't drink in the bus or no, because that would do that
• 1:27:24
  too. That'll kill you.
• 1:27:25
  So I flipped the schedule and it makes it to where you you do
• 1:27:30
  time that morning shit, but at home you don't have all that
• 1:27:34
  stuff to worry about so you can. Get when you want you shit in
• 1:27:36
  the middle of the night if you want.
• 1:27:37
  I have two bathrooms in my studio and three in my house.
• 1:27:39
  I'm good. 3 bathrooms in your house 2 1/2 Let me get this
• 1:27:43
  fucking neighborhood. You want me neighborhood?
• 1:27:45
  Yeah, let's go. I'm.
• 1:27:46
  Trying to buy a house. Could you live 30 minutes away?
• 1:27:48
  I'll just do whatever she wants, really.
• 1:27:50
  Where do you want to live? I would just ask her, are we you
• 1:27:53
  up for this? I I don't know Nashville enough
• 1:27:58
  to know what you know. Where Franklin is.
• 1:28:01
  So I live just South of Franklin.
• 1:28:02
  OK. Like 10 minutes South of
• 1:28:04
  Franklin. That's also really nice areas.
• 1:28:07
  It's beautiful. You, you have this whole thing
• 1:28:09
  where you're like, I want to live in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:28:12
  But then, and I don't have that because I've done that before,
• 1:28:15
  but living in the middle of nowhere, I, I could have a drum
• 1:28:19
  room at home and I would save $840 a month.
• 1:28:22
  That could just go into the mortgage.
• 1:28:23
  That you don't pay anymore? Yeah.
• 1:28:25
  You can't be bothered, Yeah. So there's a whole, and that's
• 1:28:28
  what I do like about Tennessee. Like East Nashville where I am
• 1:28:31
  is fucking expensive. Got lucky on this studio drum
• 1:28:34
  rooms pretty got pretty lucky on the drum room.
• 1:28:37
  But like outside of East Nashville, there are pockets
• 1:28:41
  where it's like I could probably afford a place where I could do
• 1:28:43
  the podcast and Whites Creek at home, Whites Creek, Whites
• 1:28:47
  Creek, Andersonville. I do notice people that live in
• 1:28:51
  Hendersonville. The thing is about living here.
• 1:28:53
  I think the biggest thing is people thought for so long you
• 1:28:57
  could move here and do it cheap. It's gone.
• 1:29:00
  It's fucking it's. Fucking gone.
• 1:29:03
  Like it's, I mean, it's, we're nearing LA, yeah, but.
• 1:29:07
  We're headed there. Do you know what is sick though?
• 1:29:09
  Like, and this is like a lesson to anyone who wants to do it.
• 1:29:12
  Like I've come here and it is infinitely more expensive.
• 1:29:17
  Like I think my in the UK my outgoings no here is infinitely
• 1:29:22
  more expensive. I think particularly I lived in
• 1:29:25
  fucking Scotland. Like it is quite cheap to live
• 1:29:26
  in Scotland comparatively. I was in downtown Glasgow.
• 1:29:30
  You owned a. You owned a.
• 1:29:31
  Yeah, a flat and I'm here. I think I'm spending maybe three
• 1:29:37
  times the amount. Wow.
• 1:29:39
  That I was spending, yeah. And you don't own here yet?
• 1:29:42
  Not yet. OK, I'm trying to.
• 1:29:43
  So I think I'm paying, I'm paying probably triple the
• 1:29:46
  amount. But the opportunities, and this
• 1:29:49
  is such a cringe, like Arnie moving to America.
• 1:29:53
  It's true. The opportunities that I've had
• 1:29:55
  since being here mean I've made three times as much.
• 1:29:59
  I'll shoot you. So I'm like break even.
• 1:30:01
  I I would rather live in Florida than here.
• 1:30:04
  I don't love here as a place. I wouldn't like to buy a place
• 1:30:07
  in Florida and then a hurricane destroy it.
• 1:30:10
  I know we've got tornadoes. But like you know, I spent $7000
• 1:30:15
  in in March on a storm shelter. For here.
• 1:30:18
  It's bolted into the floor of my garage.
• 1:30:20
  Oh, it's like a real fucking Wizard of Oz thing.
• 1:30:22
  It's a steel tube. It's a 4 by 6 foot tall, 6 1/2
• 1:30:28
  feet, 7 feet steel tube that my family gets in.
• 1:30:32
  Because dude, you weren't here last year.
• 1:30:35
  There was one. I was.
• 1:30:37
  I was down the street at the French restaurant Once Upon a
• 1:30:39
  Time in France. You should go.
• 1:30:39
  It's great my wife and I had just sat down and everyone's
• 1:30:44
  phones start going on and our nanny calls me crying.
• 1:30:49
  She had never seen that extreme of a warning.
• 1:30:51
  It's an extreme threat to life and property.
• 1:30:54
  Take cover and she's home with our four year old daughter and
• 1:30:57
  it took us an hour to get home because the rain was so bad.
• 1:31:00
  So I after that I started looking like we have you could
• 1:31:04
  hit it with a fucking train. You will you will do that when
• 1:31:07
  you hurricanes are different because for a week they're
• 1:31:12
  talking about on television for a week, they're like, oh,
• 1:31:15
  hurricane Craig is coming and it's going to kill you.
• 1:31:18
  So build yourself a Fort, whatever.
• 1:31:21
  Get out. Tornadoes by the fucking
• 1:31:22
  immediate. By the time there was a few in
• 1:31:24
  April, that was like, scary. Shit, by the time you know, it's
• 1:31:27
  too late. Now I just don't worry about it
• 1:31:29
  because I was worried for a year.
• 1:31:30
  The last few years I've been so worried.
• 1:31:32
  These tornadoes come and I'm fucked.
• 1:31:34
  I'm on the road. I'll never forget we were on
• 1:31:37
  tour with Periphery. We had taken Periphery out and
• 1:31:39
  we were playing this place in Oklahoma.
• 1:31:41
  It's like an old country bar. That's a fucking tornado.
• 1:31:44
  Holds a couple 1000 people and there was hurricane.
• 1:31:46
  There wasn't one there that night.
• 1:31:47
  Coincidentally there was 1 here and my wife was calling me
• 1:31:51
  crying at 3:00 in the morning in the bathroom with our daughter
• 1:31:54
  crying. She'd wake her up.
• 1:31:56
  I'm not doing that shit now. If I'm on the road and it
• 1:31:58
  happens, I could get in the tube.
• 1:32:00
  Into the tube, tube the tube. Into the tube.
• 1:32:04
  Different tube, tube, different tube.
• 1:32:05
  YouTube. We're fucking an hour and a half
• 1:32:08
  in. We haven't talked about fucking
• 1:32:10
  anything. Podcasts are so wild that.
• 1:32:11
  Way I love it. I only have like 45 minutes left
• 1:32:15
  on the fucking thing. You got fucking questions for me
• 1:32:17
  bro? Not really, because we've
• 1:32:18
  covered almost all of them naturally, which is what I love.
• 1:32:21
  You're talking about drum heads and sticks, dude.
• 1:32:23
  I. Don't at all right?
• 1:32:24
  You are the first drummer in ages and luckily I've got away
• 1:32:27
  with it like I'm trying to beat the drum podcast allegations
• 1:32:32
  because I've been struggling for years, but I think I've finally
• 1:32:36
  beat you. I think I'm like 6 in a row
• 1:32:37
  without a drummer. So you're I'm the.
• 1:32:40
  Least drummery drummer you've ever had?
• 1:32:41
  Probably Which? Is why it's a perfect fucking
• 1:32:44
  because I don't like I if it's someone like Matt Gaska,
• 1:32:46
  obviously it's like if you're going to get any genius of
• 1:32:50
  whatever they do, you're going to talk at depth about what they
• 1:32:53
  do, which is why we talk about production, because you are a
• 1:32:55
  genius. So like, but as well as that you
• 1:32:58
  have the drum thing. So this is the perfect crossover
• 1:33:00
  episode. Drums if over if I've I've been
• 1:33:03
  passed over as a drummer. What do you mean you've been
• 1:33:06
  passed? Over watch, look at the
• 1:33:07
  Internet, open your phone. The drummer, the shit that
• 1:33:09
  people do. I mean not literally, but.
• 1:33:11
  People are going to. The thing that people do with
• 1:33:13
  drums now is just I can't be bothered.
• 1:33:16
  Because you're too busy making money.
• 1:33:17
  But there's they don't make money from.
• 1:33:19
  That but it's it's so it's come so far like I have.
• 1:33:22
  Here's an example. This weekend in Nashville is the
• 1:33:25
  Nashville. Drum show.
• 1:33:26
  I've been invited to like a billion things.
• 1:33:28
  I have to play Saturday. Oh, really?
• 1:33:31
  Yamaha at the Hutton Hotel they do a thing called night in the
• 1:33:34
  Pocket and you pick 2 songs they do every year.
• 1:33:38
  They pick like a decade. So the last year was the 80s or
• 1:33:41
  this year it's the 90s and I'm playing bulls on parade and
• 1:33:47
  friends in love places. That's cool.
• 1:33:50
  Maybe we'll go. You should.
• 1:33:51
  But I but I look at the I look at the lineup and I'm.
• 1:33:56
  Fucked. Why?
• 1:33:57
  It's like crazy people. Anton Fig.
• 1:34:01
  Yes. Not like.
• 1:34:02
  Crazy and. I That's some small bit of
• 1:34:05
  imposter syndrome now. But I So what I was going to say
• 1:34:07
  though, is I've been so passed up on the drum set, you have
• 1:34:10
  surpassed anything I could ever hope on the drum set.
• 1:34:14
  No, only because I post shit on the Internet.
• 1:34:16
  You make a living from music, I make a living from this.
• 1:34:19
  I would never. There's a big difference.
• 1:34:20
  Post a video. I've, I've, I've, I posted a few
• 1:34:23
  videos last year on the drum set, right, and some this year
• 1:34:27
  from when our record came out in March.
• 1:34:29
  And it's the most likes I've ever gotten.
• 1:34:31
  And it's just me playing like in the studio, like actually
• 1:34:33
  cutting. I posted it because it was me
• 1:34:34
  cutting our single. I remember the video.
• 1:34:37
  People love that shit, of course I do, but what I'm playing is
• 1:34:40
  like dipping my pinky nail into the into the water.
• 1:34:44
  Doesn't matter, you're making money and you're making music.
• 1:34:47
  Like, do you know the guy S Estepario fucking El Sabarino?
• 1:34:52
  The guy? The guy that does the crazy shit
• 1:34:55
  like one handed. He tried out for Slipknot and
• 1:34:57
  didn't get it or whatever I remember him talking about.
• 1:34:59
  That he we started trying to get a Foo Fighters thing like that
• 1:35:02
  guy, I don't know this he's a lovely guy that we talk a little
• 1:35:05
  bit, but like he has millions and millions and he made a video
• 1:35:09
  actually. So I do know this he has
• 1:35:11
  millions and he's the most subscribed to drama on the
• 1:35:13
  Internet. He doesn't make any money from
• 1:35:16
  it because the law that we just talked about plus it's other
• 1:35:23
  people's songs. He is luckily now he's making
• 1:35:26
  money. You know, I think there's a that
• 1:35:27
  Astraya sponsors him to beer. So like he's making money other
• 1:35:31
  ways, but like it doesn't matter if you get a billion fucking
• 1:35:35
  likes or views at some point you need to make money from.
• 1:35:38
  It I'm not even talking about money, I'm more talking about
• 1:35:40
  like it's guitars too. It's singing.
• 1:35:45
  The craft has come so far because of the Internet.
• 1:35:48
  Like the double bit. I don't play double bass, you
• 1:35:50
  know, but like double bass alone.
• 1:35:51
  I'm like how do? You know what?
• 1:35:53
  I watched a I've talked about a million times in a podcast of
• 1:35:56
  people would be annoyed, but I watched a YouTube video, funnily
• 1:36:00
  enough, about how evolutionary theorists are saying that
• 1:36:08
  YouTube has advanced evolution more than anything else in
• 1:36:12
  history, because you can look at the best person in the world at
• 1:36:17
  anything. And then like back in the day
• 1:36:20
  before YouTube, but before the Internet, you didn't know who
• 1:36:23
  was better than you. So you didn't know where the bar
• 1:36:25
  was. So you, you, you just you went
• 1:36:28
  as far as you went and there was no like, OK, well, this is like,
• 1:36:31
  you know, I'm Googling drama. This is obviously the best
• 1:36:33
  drummer in the world. All I got to do is be better
• 1:36:35
  than him. That's it.
• 1:36:36
  That's all, all her, that's all I got to do is be better than
• 1:36:40
  that person. So everyone is like 1 upping
• 1:36:42
  themselves. So the last 20 years in anything
• 1:36:45
  like creative or even sporting or stuff like that, sports less
• 1:36:49
  because it was televised, but like creative stuff, people are
• 1:36:54
  just getting better at such an alarming rate because not only
• 1:36:57
  can you see whoever is the best in your field and attempt to
• 1:37:01
  surpass them, but they'll tell you how they got that good and
• 1:37:06
  you can go and do that plus more.
• 1:37:07
  It is, it is so, it is so true. Like when I was coming up
• 1:37:11
  playing drums, it was like Nirvana and people I watched in
• 1:37:14
  church and you'd hear records and the people on the records,
• 1:37:19
  like Dave Weckel was the first person that I heard.
• 1:37:22
  He had a record, an album called Heads Up, and he was the first
• 1:37:25
  person that I saw play drums or heard play drums.
• 1:37:28
  I was like, how's he doing that? Bro, Dave Weckel was my
• 1:37:30
  introduction to like, what the fuck is drum fuckery?
• 1:37:34
  Yeah, literally. Yeah, well, I can't.
• 1:37:36
  It wasn't that record. It was a different.
• 1:37:38
  One, but it's, it's interesting, like I've just kind of given up
• 1:37:41
  is the wrong thing. But I just, I've decided as a
• 1:37:44
  drummer that I just, I play drums for music.
• 1:37:50
  It is supposed to like I'm not trying to do any acrobatics
• 1:37:54
  because number one, I don't know how I'm not good enough.
• 1:37:57
  But #2 it doesn't interest me, and I think it doesn't interest
• 1:38:01
  me because I know that I'm not going to go on YouTube and find
• 1:38:05
  the best guy and try to be better.
• 1:38:07
  It doesn't interest me. Like I can't listen to that.
• 1:38:11
  Like you watch things like that, you hear those guys going with
• 1:38:13
  their feet or whatever. You just mentioned Guillotine.
• 1:38:16
  Get a scene. I made get a scene because I was
• 1:38:17
  like, I'm going to write the hardest drum part.
• 1:38:19
  It's kind of musical though, Dog.
• 1:38:20
  I hate to break it to you. Didn't intend it, intended it to
• 1:38:23
  be an impossible to. Play in my opinion, you're like,
• 1:38:26
  you're still pretty musical when you listen to like a lot of the
• 1:38:29
  metal out and stuff now in the guitar players too, the the
• 1:38:32
  guitars that have no headstock. There's no headstock and they're
• 1:38:35
  like, dude, I mean, that to me is like it's almost surpassed
• 1:38:40
  music, even to where that's it is music, but it's like it's
• 1:38:43
  ones and zeros in a way, nearly scratching.
• 1:38:47
  It's it's ones and zeros in a way.
• 1:38:48
  So as far as the first drummer on your podcast and six guests,
• 1:38:52
  I'm sorry, I don't. No, I love it.
• 1:38:55
  That was a long winded way to say I don't want to talk about
• 1:38:58
  drumsticks. There was a time.
• 1:38:59
  There was in a drumsticks though.
• 1:39:01
  Those Lars. By the man himself.
• 1:39:04
  By the man himself. That's so cool.
• 1:39:06
  How sick is that? And I got a little stand for it,
• 1:39:08
  but it broke. You know I like Lars, right?
• 1:39:10
  I love Lars. Everyone hates him.
• 1:39:12
  I think he's genius. Yeah, he's the best.
• 1:39:13
  He's the fucking best. That's why someone made me this.
• 1:39:17
  I broke it. But these sticks, so that's not
• 1:39:19
  obviously he didn't sign that. But these sticks, you know, Ben
• 1:39:23
  from Ben Thatcher from Royal Blood.
• 1:39:25
  Yeah. So Ben, I made AT shirt after we
• 1:39:28
  made AT shirt. Maybe we should bring that
• 1:39:31
  T-shirt back for this episode. We made good money.
• 1:39:33
  We sold a bunch of them. So we did that NASCAR T-shirt
• 1:39:37
  and then after that I did a last one that was like a wrestling
• 1:39:40
  shirt. Oh, I saw it.
• 1:39:42
  That's the thing, right? Oh, you dropped it.
• 1:39:44
  So no, it was in the move. So if anyone if the guy that
• 1:39:49
  made me this can remake it, that'd be great.
• 1:39:51
  Or just tell me how to fix. But again.
• 1:39:52
  You know, back to the drum thing with Lars, he's arguably bad,
• 1:39:57
  but he's great because, you know, it's him.
• 1:40:00
  Well, here's the thing. I just think he doesn't practice
• 1:40:03
  and he's 60 years old, so like he's not bad.
• 1:40:07
  He's gotten. Worse.
• 1:40:08
  Yeah, but that's just that's I think it's the combination of I
• 1:40:11
  don't think he practices and I think he has this fuck you
• 1:40:15
  mentality of, well, I fucking made it so you get what you get.
• 1:40:20
  And I love that. Just like fucking do you have.
• 1:40:22
  Any sticks in your studio? I mean bro, like so Ben wore the
• 1:40:27
  T-shirt to a show that Royal Blood were playing with
• 1:40:29
  Metallica. Lars sees him in the T-shirt and
• 1:40:32
  it's like what the fuck is that T-shirt?
• 1:40:34
  They have a chat. Lars goes and gets him those
• 1:40:37
  sticks to give to me, which is the sickest thing on fucking
• 1:40:39
  earth. But then Lars, his wife, hit
• 1:40:43
  bent up to ask for five of the T-shirt in varying sizes, which
• 1:40:48
  I assume is for their family. Oh yeah.
• 1:40:50
  So I sent them all the shirts. So somewhere on earth there must
• 1:40:53
  exist a photo of family all rich in the Downbeat shirt, dude.
• 1:40:59
  It's funny. The drum thing is funny.
• 1:41:01
  There was a time where I like I had signature kits and symbol
• 1:41:06
  boxes. Down the street.
• 1:41:08
  And now, yeah. And now that would never happen
• 1:41:11
  for me as a drummer because I don't, I don't do was.
• 1:41:15
  That beef when you left Minor? It wasn't great.
• 1:41:19
  There were no. I got, I got minor beef now you
• 1:41:22
  know I do because I'm out. I wanted to be out because I
• 1:41:26
  tell you why. Oh my God, you tell me why, and
• 1:41:29
  then I'm going to tell you for the first time ever because I
• 1:41:31
  haven't told I've. Never told anyone.
• 1:41:33
  Let's go. Music was changing and I'm
• 1:41:38
  basically like Ronnie Bonucci that plays in a heavy band.
• 1:41:40
  That's my style. Is that the guy from The
• 1:41:42
  Killers? Yes.
• 1:41:44
  We watch him play and what it's. Great drama, big kick drama.
• 1:41:47
  It's you. It's me like I kind of, that's
• 1:41:50
  my style though, Big washy symbols, you know, I play 17
• 1:41:53
  inch high hats. Insane.
• 1:41:56
  I like that. We've gone there now.
• 1:41:57
  We said we weren't going to go there.
• 1:41:58
  Carry on, but I like that shit in minor at the time they were
• 1:42:03
  going towards the Zilbel type things and stacks and fucking I
• 1:42:09
  don't. I've never used a China.
• 1:42:11
  Like I'm not that. I'm not that person.
• 1:42:14
  China, China, China. How do you say it?
• 1:42:17
  I mean, I just say China, China, China, but I in my head, all I
• 1:42:21
  hear when I hear the word China is Trump.
• 1:42:23
  Yeah, so anyways, I I was myself and they started to really
• 1:42:29
  promote all the like, I don't know what they call it, like,
• 1:42:32
  you know, nerdy drummers like fucking Zil bells and stuff.
• 1:42:36
  Which is what me what got me into them.
• 1:42:39
  Yeah, and I'm, that's just not my world.
• 1:42:42
  And I felt really out of place. You know, I was like, why don't
• 1:42:44
  I just go get a bunch of Constantinoples?
• 1:42:46
  That's what I like anyway. And.
• 1:42:47
  Then that was it. So my one, which I don't think
• 1:42:50
  I've told you, and I had certainly haven't told these
• 1:42:52
  people, but we had a gentleman's agreement that something, if
• 1:42:57
  they didn't do something, then I wouldn't tell everyone why I
• 1:43:00
  left. And it was like a little
• 1:43:01
  handshake thing where I was like, they were like, are you
• 1:43:04
  going to tell people about this? And I was like, do me a favor,
• 1:43:07
  don't do this. And then I won't tell everyone.
• 1:43:09
  And I did it anyway. So I'll tell you the whole
• 1:43:10
  story. You know, I used to do drum
• 1:43:12
  reaction videos. At this point in time, I have a
• 1:43:16
  signature minor ride coming out. It's finished.
• 1:43:19
  We have one conversation left, which was that I wanted the
• 1:43:22
  downbeat logo, which is a pentagram to be under the symbol
• 1:43:25
  so more people could buy in stores because they some people
• 1:43:29
  aren't going to pick that up. The Joey Jordison snares an
• 1:43:32
  amazing snare, but there's some people that aren't going to pick
• 1:43:34
  it up because of the slip, not logo.
• 1:43:35
  So I was like, I just want to put it on the bottom.
• 1:43:37
  So it's like a little thing. That was the last piece of the
• 1:43:39
  puzzle to be done. Side note, I was never it wasn't
• 1:43:45
  I wasn't happy with the symbol. It was I wanted more from a
• 1:43:49
  crashable ride. Fuck me, we really are there
• 1:43:52
  now. We'll be great guys.
• 1:43:54
  Madison will be there's juice, don't worry.
• 1:43:58
  I was like, you know, I'm not really getting the definition I
• 1:44:01
  want from the bell as well as it being crashable.
• 1:44:04
  And their answer was just it can't be done.
• 1:44:06
  That's why it doesn't exist like a big bell ride that you.
• 1:44:10
  Crash. It's impossible to make because
• 1:44:14
  of the fucking physics of the whole thing.
• 1:44:16
  So I was just like, I was just like, OK, that's fine.
• 1:44:19
  And so like we got to a stage where it's like, this is the
• 1:44:22
  best ride out there that does this.
• 1:44:24
  So OK, let's do it. We've got one last meeting,
• 1:44:30
  which I thought was going to be about the thing.
• 1:44:33
  They phoned me like, can you have a meeting tomorrow?
• 1:44:35
  I assume this meeting, Zoom meeting me, the guy from
• 1:44:38
  Germany, the guy from the UK who I really like, Michael Joe, I
• 1:44:44
  thought it's gonna be about that.
• 1:44:45
  I get on the call and it's like a fucking interrogation.
• 1:44:50
  And they're like, yeah, we just want to address some stuff that
• 1:44:52
  you've said on your YouTube. Oh, wow.
• 1:44:54
  And I was like, oh, fuck. Like because I do a thing like
• 1:44:57
  if someone comes in and dogs on my drumming when I'm doing a
• 1:45:00
  drum stream, I'll be insane. Like I'll go, I'll Google their
• 1:45:05
  handle, find their Facebook, look at pictures of their kids
• 1:45:09
  on Twitch live and be and be like, look how fucking ugly your
• 1:45:13
  son is. Is that?
• 1:45:15
  Are you married to your sister? Like what the fuck's going like?
• 1:45:18
  So, and I was like expecting like I was going to have to
• 1:45:20
  apologize. Running Raggy.
• 1:45:21
  I was like, I was like, I'm going to really have to
• 1:45:23
  apologize. I was like, fuck, what are they
• 1:45:24
  going to say? What have I said?
• 1:45:26
  And I was ready to just fucking, you know, apologize profusely
• 1:45:29
  and be like, you know, I'm not going to.
• 1:45:30
  I won't do that. They go yes, in this video
• 1:45:34
  titled it was so professional. Bear in mind that I've had
• 1:45:37
  dinner and got drunk with these people before and they're being
• 1:45:40
  like, I don't want to say it, but Gestapo about it.
• 1:45:43
  They were like in this video titled Nap Voucher, which is my
• 1:45:48
  sleep token reaction video you said.
• 1:45:50
  NAP voucher. Thank you.
• 1:45:55
  Thank you. You said to hear a German guy
• 1:45:58
  really seriously say that as well.
• 1:46:00
  Very funny. You said and I quote, I feel
• 1:46:05
  like minor and Istanbul are kind of the same thing.
• 1:46:09
  Anyway, what did you mean by this?
• 1:46:10
  And I was like, are you fucking joking?
• 1:46:12
  And they were like, no, this is a very serious allegation.
• 1:46:16
  Like what? What do you mean by this?
• 1:46:18
  And I was like, let me go watch a video about, watch a video
• 1:46:22
  about. It's really like I'm watching
• 1:46:23
  the guy ripping on the drums. I'm like, man, those symbols
• 1:46:25
  sound good. What are they?
• 1:46:27
  They look like minors because it's fucking Istanbul, which
• 1:46:29
  looked like minor. And I was like, are they minors?
• 1:46:32
  Someone in the chat says, oh, they're Istanbul.
• 1:46:34
  And I just go under my breath, flippant comment.
• 1:46:36
  Just go the same thing. I feel like minor in Istanbul
• 1:46:39
  kind of the same thing. Anything anyway.
• 1:46:40
  And then they're like, what do you mean by this?
• 1:46:42
  And I'm like, I mean, Minor is the last company that makes
• 1:46:47
  symbols in Turkey out of the big three.
• 1:46:51
  Istanbul is the capital of Turkey.
• 1:46:55
  Their symbols are also made in Turkey.
• 1:46:58
  Therefore they're quite similar in sounds because they're
• 1:47:01
  Turkish handmade symbols. And they're like, yes, but this
• 1:47:04
  is a very serious allegation. And I was like, at this point
• 1:47:08
  I'm a fucking hot blooded argumentative person.
• 1:47:10
  I was like, are we fucking done here?
• 1:47:12
  Like what? What the fuck is this?
• 1:47:14
  And then they were like, yes. You also said some other stuff
• 1:47:17
  about like they stole the clap stack from from Istanbul as
• 1:47:21
  well. I'm not like gassing up
• 1:47:22
  Istanbul. And Zildjian obviously stole it
• 1:47:24
  as well. And yes, you also said some
• 1:47:26
  stuff about the clap stack. And I was like, are you telling
• 1:47:29
  me that I, I can't #1 compare your symbols to another brand
• 1:47:32
  even flippantly on the Internet #2 like I can't express when I'm
• 1:47:39
  disappointed in your company for stealing another company's
• 1:47:42
  ideas. Like I didn't even fucking say
• 1:47:44
  anything that bad about a clap stack.
• 1:47:46
  And they were like, oh, there's a difference between talking
• 1:47:50
  about other symbols and comparing us to competitors.
• 1:47:53
  And I was like, at this point I was like, are we fucking done
• 1:47:55
  here? We're going to talk about my
• 1:47:56
  symbols? Or is this what this meeting is
• 1:47:58
  about? And I'm like, this is what this
• 1:47:59
  meeting is about. And I was like, OK, bye.
• 1:48:01
  Hung up in a fucking bad mood. Because I'm like in my head, I'm
• 1:48:05
  like the amount of symbols I've sold these motherfuckers from
• 1:48:08
  those videos all I'm the only person in COVID, the only person
• 1:48:12
  on their roster streaming on the front pages, Twitch to 400,000
• 1:48:17
  people who were in the stream one day playing their symbols.
• 1:48:20
  What symbols that it's this. It's fucking sick.
• 1:48:22
  Like I'm gassing them up constantly.
• 1:48:23
  They never paid me. They've just given me free
• 1:48:25
  symbols when I need free symbols, which incidentally,
• 1:48:27
  when I'm in America was a nightmare.
• 1:48:29
  They were like, oh, I would give them a by's answer.
• 1:48:32
  Maybe like I'd be like, I crack this by's answer.
• 1:48:34
  Maybe like here's a fucking $80 symbol instead and be like, what
• 1:48:37
  the fuck? What am I supposed to do with
• 1:48:39
  that? So I'm super pissed off about
• 1:48:40
  that phone. Eric from Ziljian also works at
• 1:48:45
  thick Furth and I was because he's a friend and I was like,
• 1:48:47
  look, as a friend, not as a Rep and another company.
• 1:48:52
  This is what's happened. I'm very, very annoyed.
• 1:48:55
  Madison will tell you I need quite often I need someone
• 1:48:59
  else's opinion on something before I actually unleash hell
• 1:49:02
  because I'm quite hot headed. I was like, am I being psycho
• 1:49:06
  here or is that incredibly like rude to even do this to to bring
• 1:49:13
  this up? And he was like, man, that's
• 1:49:14
  fucking crazy. And I was like, fucking.
• 1:49:17
  And then he just goes, doors always open at zoo gym.
• 1:49:19
  And then like, I left that call and I was just, I sat on it and
• 1:49:25
  I was like, these motherfuckers. I must have sold them fucking
• 1:49:30
  maybe millions of dollars of symbols because I know now from
• 1:49:33
  my fucking symbol how many fucking symbols I sell.
• 1:49:36
  But like, I must have been like, they've never once given me
• 1:49:40
  money and then they're fucking calling this meeting.
• 1:49:42
  So I got really fucking annoyed about it and I was like, no, I'm
• 1:49:44
  going to fucking leave. And that was it.
• 1:49:45
  And then when when when I said I was going to leave, we had
• 1:49:49
  another meeting with Alex Minal, who is like, whoa, yeah.
• 1:49:55
  And you know what? He's a fucking legend as well.
• 1:49:57
  Like, it's not to do with him. It's it's if they'd have told
• 1:50:02
  him or my UK Rep or something to just hit me up on the side and
• 1:50:06
  be like, don't, don't gas Istanbul up.
• 1:50:09
  And I'll be like, OK, my bad. Would have never happened again.
• 1:50:13
  Get on a call with him. And he was like, what can we do
• 1:50:15
  to make you stay? And I was like, I'm fucking
• 1:50:17
  done. Like, this pissed me off.
• 1:50:19
  So fucking March. And then they asked me like,
• 1:50:22
  what can we do? So this never happens again?
• 1:50:24
  And then I gave them a load of advice when I left and I was
• 1:50:26
  like, this guy that does this job here, you need to give him
• 1:50:31
  more. It was actually Joe who's in the
• 1:50:33
  UK. I was like, you need to give
• 1:50:34
  this guy more jobs with artist relations than the person that
• 1:50:39
  fucking phoned me and had the worst artist relations I've ever
• 1:50:43
  fucking dealt with in my life. You need to give this guy more
• 1:50:46
  blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.
• 1:50:47
  And they were like, are you going to tell people about this?
• 1:50:50
  And I was like, here's the deal, we'll cut.
• 1:50:53
  I will not tell anyone why I left if you don't sell the
• 1:51:00
  symbol that we spent two years making together.
• 1:51:04
  Do they sell it? Thomas Lang Signature symbol.
• 1:51:06
  The same one. Stuck a little bit of weight on
• 1:51:08
  it. It's the same symbol.
• 1:51:08
  It's the same symbol. Shit.
• 1:51:11
  Everyone I spoke to on the side was like, yeah, Thomas Lang
• 1:51:14
  would never put his name on something that he didn't fucking
• 1:51:17
  do. And it's like, no, they just
• 1:51:18
  stuck 200 grams on it. It's the same symbol.
• 1:51:20
  It's the same fucking symbol. That's why.
• 1:51:23
  But then to the US reps credit, which I think might yeah, which
• 1:51:29
  is my yeah, such a nice guy, which might have been him trying
• 1:51:33
  to be like it is after the Thomas Lang ones come out him to
• 1:51:36
  maybe just be like, Hey, you know, I'm going to be nice to
• 1:51:42
  you. Please don't tell people about
• 1:51:43
  this whole fucking thing. But he when the Tornadoes hit
• 1:51:46
  the other day, he sent me a really lovely e-mail and it's
• 1:51:48
  just like, hey, I know you're new here.
• 1:51:49
  Like this is what you should do if a tornado.
• 1:51:52
  He was really nice. Nicest fucking guy.
• 1:51:54
  No problem. No, no problem with him.
• 1:51:57
  I had a problem trying to get symbols from him because they
• 1:52:00
  didn't give him enough power like allocation, so that was a
• 1:52:06
  whole thing. But fucking lovely guy.
• 1:52:08
  But now you have a fucking ziljin.
• 1:52:10
  Now I've got Zilli and guess what?
• 1:52:11
  What happened was I went to Ziljin and I was like can you
• 1:52:16
  make this symbol? Because you know I need I need
• 1:52:20
  it. And like they sent me 3
• 1:52:22
  prototypes and the third one and we made 21 in the end.
• 1:52:25
  But the third one they made is the one that's out now because
• 1:52:28
  it was just like, I assumed it couldn't be done.
• 1:52:32
  And then they sent 3 and I was like, that's the best symbol on
• 1:52:35
  Earth. So I was like, fuck yeah.
• 1:52:37
  What a crazy thing. I dude, the the drum world
• 1:52:40
  people don't realize is so small.
• 1:52:42
  It is and people watch stuff, you know, and they and they know
• 1:52:46
  like it's so wild, like I dude, I can't be bothered with that
• 1:52:50
  shit. I can't imagine.
• 1:52:51
  Like it pissed me the fuck off. What a weird thing.
• 1:52:55
  It's symbol symbols RIP and I was dojin guy.
• 1:52:57
  I was so pissed. Off they are great symbols.
• 1:53:00
  That's all you were saying you kind of you were kind of if I'm
• 1:53:03
  I mean I'm your friend. So I'm going to stick up for you
• 1:53:05
  obviously. But in All, in all fairness,
• 1:53:09
  playing devil's advocate, hearing the last 10 minutes of
• 1:53:12
  you talk, you were kind of you weren't really gassing up and
• 1:53:15
  simple. You were.
• 1:53:16
  No, it was I I compared the two. Yeah.
• 1:53:18
  Now there are rumors about why they got so annoyed that I
• 1:53:21
  compared the two, but that's for another day.
• 1:53:24
  Oh shit. I'll give you that one,
• 1:53:27
  motherfuckers. That's it's interesting though,
• 1:53:29
  because like I don't, I don't have any problems with any of
• 1:53:33
  that. Like saying like I like, I like
• 1:53:36
  some ensemble symbols, but I'm a Ziljian guy.
• 1:53:37
  I prefer Ziljian. Guess what?
• 1:53:39
  I like some minor symbols. I wouldn't have played them for
• 1:53:41
  a billion fucking years, but. I played them for years.
• 1:53:43
  I was on the boxes. The number one thing that I
• 1:53:46
  realized though moving to Ziljian was the amount I crack
• 1:53:51
  decreased by like fucking at least a third, maybe 1/4.
• 1:53:55
  Brother, I would say I'm at half.
• 1:53:58
  Yeah, I use a 24K light ride as my main.
• 1:54:01
  We really went there and it's going to have to end on this as
• 1:54:03
  well. Not right now you can do.
• 1:54:05
  It but I don't I don't break that many of them and I'm I
• 1:54:08
  break more shit than anybody. I'm cursed behind the drum set.
• 1:54:12
  The issue you can get a signature symbol.
• 1:54:14
  Yeah, I don't even know how to do it.
• 1:54:16
  How do you do that? You don't need one.
• 1:54:18
  I'll tell you how you do it. You say, hey, I'm one of the
• 1:54:20
  biggest artists for this symbol company.
• 1:54:22
  I want to come to your symbol company and they go OK, please
• 1:54:24
  come on. I go, you have to give me a
• 1:54:25
  signature symbol. And then they go, I wonder if I
• 1:54:28
  can say it, I'm going to say it anyway.
• 1:54:29
  And they go, you realise you can't just join and get a
• 1:54:32
  signature symbol straight away because there's about 5 people
• 1:54:35
  with a signature 0 Gen. symbol so that everyone will be really
• 1:54:38
  annoyed. And I was like OK, what do we do
• 1:54:40
  then? And then we're like join and
• 1:54:42
  we'll gas you up for two years and then we'll launch the
• 1:54:46
  symbol. Yeah, done and dusted.
• 1:54:49
  Look at you. I mean, I sell so many fucking
• 1:54:52
  symbols it's crazy. You do.
• 1:54:54
  It's not. I need one.
• 1:54:55
  I want to hear it. I'm not.
• 1:54:56
  I've got like fucking eight in the practice room.
• 1:54:59
  I need to get one. I'm on like a small percentage.
• 1:55:01
  It's like it's a very small, but it's like a standard thing, but
• 1:55:05
  like based on what I get paid, which is not like life changing
• 1:55:09
  money, but it's like I definitely need it.
• 1:55:11
  It's fucking great. I can see how much they make
• 1:55:15
  from me and I'm like, it makes me even more sure of my
• 1:55:18
  decision. Like you're going to fucking
• 1:55:21
  disrespect me on a zoom call when I bring in this much
• 1:55:24
  Fucking that's. Why?
• 1:55:26
  Money. Crazy.
• 1:55:28
  But that's that circles back to what I'm saying about content
• 1:55:30
  creators and stuff. Like at some point in your
• 1:55:32
  career as a musician, you realize you're worth, you spend
• 1:55:35
  like 10 years being like, I want to be good enough.
• 1:55:38
  And at some point there's a tipping point where it's like,
• 1:55:40
  oh, actually you guys owe me shit.
• 1:55:43
  I'm doing bits for. Some, if something happens, I
• 1:55:45
  think in music in general, where you look around and you go, I'm
• 1:55:48
  making this stuff and everyone's making more money than me, you
• 1:55:51
  know what I mean? Like in it creation in general,
• 1:55:54
  music content creator, whatever you're doing, everyone else is
• 1:55:57
  getting rich off I I'll never forget when we that happened to
• 1:55:59
  us in O 9 where we were like, wait a minute, like everybody's
• 1:56:03
  making more money than us and we restructure our whole business
• 1:56:06
  like our whole the way we pay people and it's fair, but
• 1:56:10
  everyone gets paid like they should in our business, you
• 1:56:14
  know, which is hard. And it's hard too because in the
• 1:56:16
  music business, especially in in, in in in the visual audible
• 1:56:20
  art business, the pay is strange.
• 1:56:23
  Like managers make a ton of money.
• 1:56:26
  Like person X makes a ton of money, person Y makes a ton of
• 1:56:28
  money. And like what you're saying is
• 1:56:31
  interesting because to meet what I hear in this whole last 20
• 1:56:34
  minutes is you had the balls to stand up and say, no, I'm going
• 1:56:37
  to do it this way and you're going to pay me what I'm worth.
• 1:56:40
  You know, I'm going to go get or, or, you know, not
• 1:56:42
  monetarily, I'm going to go get what I'm worth.
• 1:56:45
  And you did. And now you have a signature
• 1:56:46
  symbol that sells a bunch of symbols.
• 1:56:49
  Always know your worth guys, but don't know your worth.
• 1:56:52
  Before you know it, that took me fucking. 20 years of playing the
• 1:56:55
  drums to be like wait a second and do you know what it was
• 1:56:57
  actually only only the twitch thing, but I really realized how
• 1:57:01
  much money I was worth for drum companies because I was on again
• 1:57:05
  like I said, you crushed it. 400,000 people were watching one
• 1:57:08
  stream that was on the front page of twitch and.
• 1:57:09
  All this stuff and at that point.
• 1:57:10
  Actually, I was playing a tamer. You were tamer.
• 1:57:13
  They don't. I'm still tamer, but they they I
• 1:57:15
  was playing a kit they don't make anymore.
• 1:57:17
  And I was like. I asked for a new kit from a Rep
• 1:57:21
  that I was dealing with and they were like, Oh yeah, well yeah,
• 1:57:24
  maybe we'll sort it out. And then that was like dragging
• 1:57:26
  on. And I was like, I'll be honest
• 1:57:28
  with DW, hit me up and was like, you want to come to DW?
• 1:57:31
  And I was like, I need 2 kits for free.
• 1:57:33
  And they went Yep. And I went, I need to speak to
• 1:57:38
  the highest up guy at Tama who I've never spoke to in my life
• 1:57:42
  to at least say, hey, man, like this has been fun.
• 1:57:47
  I'm going to move. And it was, it wasn't the drums,
• 1:57:49
  like DW make incredible drums. Fucking Tam.
• 1:57:51
  I'm making credible drums, of course.
• 1:57:53
  And then I get on this call with him and I'm like.
• 1:57:56
  He's like, hey man. Nice to meet you, what you've
• 1:57:58
  been doing. And then I start telling him
• 1:57:59
  what I've been doing, ready to like ramp up to me saying like,
• 1:58:02
  unfortunately I'm going to leave because some of the sudden he
• 1:58:05
  was like, oh man, you're killing it.
• 1:58:07
  Like what do you want? You want a new kit?
• 1:58:09
  And I was like, well, actually, yeah, I do want any kicks.
• 1:58:12
  Tam is my #1 so much. I didn't do the call.
• 1:58:16
  I was speaking to a Rep that I assume had, you know, he had the
• 1:58:19
  authority. To give me a.
• 1:58:20
  New kit from the top and he didn't have it.
• 1:58:22
  So now I'm speaking to the guy who does have the authority.
• 1:58:25
  He said you want a new pit. And I was like, oh, actually,
• 1:58:28
  yeah. And he was like, what do you
• 1:58:29
  want? And at that point he was like,
• 1:58:30
  you can have anything you want for free, which is the first
• 1:58:34
  time that ever happened. We made a business decision to
• 1:58:38
  get because I'm on stream so much.
• 1:58:40
  Give me one of the cheaper ones. Give me just give me a star
• 1:58:42
  Classic. So it's good.
• 1:58:43
  But yeah, it's not a star. And then, you know, end up I
• 1:58:48
  sold a fucking ton of those. And then without me asking now
• 1:58:52
  it's like I got the call like last year and I'm like, you want
• 1:58:55
  a new kit? And I was like, yes.
• 1:58:58
  And I'm like, I was like, what can I have?
• 1:59:00
  And you can have anything. So this time I got a * Maple
• 1:59:03
  24221213141618. It's called the library.
• 1:59:11
  Yeah, no, it's pretty. It's over here.
• 1:59:13
  You want to borrow something you.
• 1:59:14
  Got my belt brass. Yeah, I got all that shit.
• 1:59:16
  It's crazy. Man, it's crazy that when you
• 1:59:18
  do, know your worth at the right time.
• 1:59:21
  Especially in that world, like it matters you.
• 1:59:24
  Know what I mean? It takes a while.
• 1:59:26
  Though I just switched to Yamaha early next, early last.
• 1:59:30
  Year I was going to say yeah, you.
• 1:59:31
  Were Gretch. I switched to Yamaha a little
• 1:59:34
  over a year ago. And they've been because you're
• 1:59:36
  a. Yamaha guy kinda.
• 1:59:38
  You're so Yamaha with this is. So drummy now, even in Madison's
• 1:59:42
  fucking smiling away, bored. Madison's asleep.
• 1:59:45
  What's your Yamaha kit though? I've got a soft spot for Yamaha.
• 1:59:48
  This is the thing though. Everyone makes good.
• 1:59:50
  Shit they do. But Yamaha, for me growing up,
• 1:59:52
  it was in the magazines, man. It was.
• 1:59:53
  It was that. Weapon it was Gad, it was those
• 1:59:57
  guys. I'm a.
• 1:59:58
  Just a plain. Black.
• 2:00:00
  Piano black piano piano black recording custom I have two of
• 2:00:04
  them and they're. Exactly the same.
• 2:00:05
  Both recording customs that's exactly the same. 24131618.
• 2:00:10
  That's hot and I. They were so wonderful.
• 2:00:12
  I wanted porthole in the middle of the kick.
• 2:00:14
  Like this? I and I told them I wanted 24.
• 2:00:17
  By 14 that's what I got and I don't know.
• 2:00:19
  If that's something they really do a lot.
• 2:00:21
  So they made those drums for me in Japan.
• 2:00:24
  Hey 24 by 14 is the best kick drum size on earth.
• 2:00:28
  The the reason I have. A 22 as well as the 24 and this
• 2:00:31
  is how cool my Tamara Rep is because I play the 22 forever.
• 2:00:35
  But I did used to have a 24 by 14 old vintage kit back in the
• 2:00:39
  day and I remember I just loved it.
• 2:00:41
  So this new kit I was like, I want a 24 by 14 and he was like,
• 2:00:44
  man, you're going to hate it. And I was like, trust me, I'm
• 2:00:46
  not going to hate it. And he was like, I'm going to
• 2:00:49
  make you a 22 as well just in case you got here.
• 2:00:51
  I have a 22 as well. That's so fucking sick.
• 2:00:53
  I have one too. Never gets played the 20.
• 2:00:56
  The 24 is mine's in a box. People don't mind.
• 2:00:59
  Was in a box until recently that I recorded something with.
• 2:01:02
  It that will come out later. On Fuck You, people don't
• 2:01:04
  realize this is so nerdy. We did it.
• 2:01:06
  We fucking did it. What do you mean to?
• 2:01:08
  That's fine, it's good. We'll have people that dropped
• 2:01:10
  off the Patreon. I've had people on the exit
• 2:01:12
  serving it. So he doesn't talk about drums
• 2:01:14
  enough anymore. So they're going to come back.
• 2:01:15
  You welcome back 1 LB per month if you filled up a Let's use
• 2:01:21
  water instead of air here. If you filled up a 24 by 14 kick
• 2:01:28
  drum water water water water. If you filled it up with water.
• 2:01:34
  Say water, Water. Water.
• 2:01:37
  No, it's do yours. Water.
• 2:01:39
  Water. Water.
• 2:01:42
  Anyway, if you filled. Up a 24 by. 14 with water.
• 2:01:45
  And then you filled up a 22 by 16 of water.
• 2:01:48
  It's the same amount of water. It is everyone's like I can't
• 2:01:51
  play it. It's too much air to move
• 2:01:52
  around. It's like, no, it's the same
• 2:01:53
  amount of that. Well, technically the way that I
• 2:01:55
  see it, and this is real drum nerdy, is when I play a
• 2:01:58
  shallower. Kick drum, so there's those two
• 2:02:00
  inches, the air gets to the front quicker.
• 2:02:03
  Yeah, they're so responsive. It's so responsive in that way.
• 2:02:06
  Like I remember back in the day when.
• 2:02:08
  I was playing like custom drums. Like truth and all that.
• 2:02:10
  You would like the truth post the board.
• 2:02:12
  Yeah, I would always get these like 20 inch long kick drums.
• 2:02:15
  And I'm thinking they would sound.
• 2:02:16
  Like boom, you're the click here.
• 2:02:18
  Yeah, because you're not activating that other one.
• 2:02:21
  You're not getting the resonant head.
• 2:02:23
  You like this from a? We're still fucking nerding out.
• 2:02:25
  You're not even going. To get to 2 Jews and a lie, it's
• 2:02:27
  not even. Going to fucking happen.
• 2:02:28
  Damn it. You have to come back.
• 2:02:29
  I'm down the street, brother. Local boy.
• 2:02:32
  We played with him. The sugar.
• 2:02:34
  Last year and. Fucking bucket this for me.
• 2:02:37
  Unreal, but unreal. They had four kick drums and he
• 2:02:41
  was. Playing two 20s. 220 by sixteens
• 2:02:46
  and then he had 24 by fourteens in front of it connected
• 2:02:53
  together. And they had like the woofer
• 2:02:57
  thing. Yeah, but Ronnie, our sound guy,
• 2:03:00
  spoke to their sound guy. It was.
• 2:03:02
  So if this is, it's not fuck I can't do it.
• 2:03:06
  If this is. Kick drum one and this is kick
• 2:03:07
  drum 2. This is the big one is the 24
• 2:03:09
  and this is the 20. This was miked here.
• 2:03:16
  Just point on the. Batter side on the batter.
• 2:03:18
  Side but it's not being battered so then.
• 2:03:20
  What's happening is the air is going from here into this and
• 2:03:24
  apparently he was getting the click from there because it has
• 2:03:27
  a completely different Sonic range than a normal kick drum.
• 2:03:31
  So like when you see Meshuggar and you listen to their kick
• 2:03:35
  live, it does not sound like any kick drum I can think of because
• 2:03:38
  it's not like a, it's a real nerdy.
• 2:03:41
  It's not like a like A5. K or.
• 2:03:44
  Even like A7K click, it's like a fucking 2 1/2.
• 2:03:48
  He's got his own. He's he's made a frequency.
• 2:03:51
  Yeah, that's mental, dude. I always wondered.
• 2:03:53
  One of those rock those those woofers like how to forget who
• 2:03:56
  had them. Somebody had them and I got
• 2:03:59
  truth to make one. It was horrible.
• 2:04:01
  It sounded like shit, it sounded great unmiked, but we could just
• 2:04:04
  never. Figure it out like.
• 2:04:05
  How to do Yamaha still make a sub kick?
• 2:04:08
  You know the yeah the microphone.
• 2:04:09
  Have you got 1? I don't.
• 2:04:11
  You should get one. I should send you one.
• 2:04:13
  Yeah, there he will. Greg Will.
• 2:04:15
  So. Greg, he's, he gets in tomorrow
• 2:04:17
  into town. Anyway, you've got an album out.
• 2:04:20
  We haven't talked about him once place after this.
• 2:04:22
  One came out in March. Does that mean heaven?
• 2:04:25
  You know, I think I deliberately didn't try.
• 2:04:26
  To go down the God thing because he's done it A.
• 2:04:28
  Million times I think that no, it doesn't mean heaven.
• 2:04:31
  It could mean heaven, but to me it's more vague in the.
• 2:04:33
  Sense of like everything we do as people is like next.
• 2:04:38
  It's what's it's what's next. Like that's our biggest thing is
• 2:04:41
  people in the future. I'm going to do this, I'm going
• 2:04:43
  to go there. I'm going to marry this person.
• 2:04:45
  I'm going to make this much money.
• 2:04:47
  But we never we never ever. It's kind of an opposite the
• 2:04:51
  title like we never do. We never live in the now ever.
• 2:04:55
  I don't you don't nobody does. Or what's next?
• 2:04:59
  What's the place after this one? Like where are we going to be?
• 2:05:02
  You know, so it was a, it was a bit of a study in like this is
• 2:05:06
  all we have, you know, is these 10.
• 2:05:09
  Songs These 11 songs. This is where we are.
• 2:05:12
  This is our stamp in this, this, this place, you know, 'cause for
• 2:05:17
  a band like us, it's really difficult to put out new music.
• 2:05:20
  It is I we could make That's the Spirit Part 2 tomorrow.
• 2:05:24
  Yeah, people wouldn't like it. No, it's the moment.
• 2:05:28
  It's the moment it was released. And I think that for this album,
• 2:05:32
  it's just it's. It's where we are and what's
• 2:05:36
  next isn't really. You can't really live that way,
• 2:05:40
  you know what I mean? If you live that way, you're.
• 2:05:42
  Going to miss everything and. It's so cliche.
• 2:05:44
  It's, it is. It's just cliche to say that.
• 2:05:46
  But like, it's a cooler way to say it than like Underoath's new
• 2:05:49
  album, Live in the Moment. Yeah.
• 2:05:52
  And it it's, and it doesn't really directly mean that
• 2:05:54
  there's, there's stuff on there. There's a there's a song.
• 2:05:56
  Called Lost. That's literally about all you
• 2:06:00
  got left is lost because I I think what we've really.
• 2:06:02
  Realized is people is we've. We've had so much success.
• 2:06:06
  We've been so blessed and lucky in that way and we've had so
• 2:06:10
  many wins as a band, you know, we've sold millions.
• 2:06:13
  Of albums, it's amazing. But at the end of the day, the
• 2:06:16
  thing that connects us the most is, is loss.
• 2:06:20
  And the only thing you can do in loss is live in that space.
• 2:06:22
  You can't go backwards, you can't go forwards.
• 2:06:24
  What do you mean loss? Like people or people?
• 2:06:26
  There's a song. There's a song about losing.
• 2:06:28
  People, there's a song, it's called.
• 2:06:30
  Survivor's guilt about kind of being, it's that that guilt that
• 2:06:34
  you're you, you made it through the storm and the other person
• 2:06:37
  fell over the edge. Whatever the things that tie us
• 2:06:39
  the most together is the pain we've experienced together.
• 2:06:41
  You know, Tim's dad dying. You know, I went through a
• 2:06:44
  tumultuous divorce 10 years ago. Those are the things that tie us
• 2:06:48
  together five years ago. I remember.
• 2:06:52
  Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:06:52
  We've chatted about it a bunch. Those are the things that
• 2:06:54
  really. Tie us together is people is
• 2:06:57
  underoath. That's what tied us together.
• 2:06:59
  It did. What's up, bro?
• 2:07:00
  You're divorced. Me too.
• 2:07:01
  Let's talk about it. Let's go.
• 2:07:02
  Like those those. Things are.
• 2:07:04
  Really. You know.
• 2:07:06
  And the place after this one is whatever you want it to be.
• 2:07:08
  But what really matters is what what you got.
• 2:07:11
  You know what's in your pocket, you know what I mean?
• 2:07:13
  And that's a perfect clip, Simon, so I can pretend we
• 2:07:17
  talked. About the album, Do you like
• 2:07:19
  talking about the album? Do you like doing press?
• 2:07:22
  I fucking hate it. I have a chip on my shoulder
• 2:07:24
  about Underoath I think. In in.
• 2:07:26
  In a in a negative way like. I feel like people don't care
• 2:07:31
  that we still make music. And I think that.
• 2:07:33
  If you clip that, people will come out of the woods and say we
• 2:07:35
  do, we do, we do. But it's I hate this term.
• 2:07:40
  We're kind of a legacy band. And it's, I mean, you are, but
• 2:07:44
  that's it's because of your. Legacy I know, but it's isn't a
• 2:07:47
  bad what I was. Going to say is I complain about
• 2:07:49
  that, but it's really a beautiful thing.
• 2:07:50
  You. Know so when it comes to.
• 2:07:52
  Chatting about new music, inevitably people compare it to
• 2:07:56
  define the great line and they're only chasing you.
• 2:07:58
  Fucked up by having two like huge albums.
• 2:08:01
  But here's The thing is you. You.
• 2:08:02
  Can't make those records again and we would never try.
• 2:08:06
  Because if we gave the people what they wanted, which is
• 2:08:09
  define the great line Part 2, what would they do?
• 2:08:12
  Oh, it's manufactured. It's bullshit.
• 2:08:14
  Cash crap. Yeah, sounds like they just did
• 2:08:16
  the same thing again. Cash grab, you know, do
• 2:08:18
  something new. And they're like.
• 2:08:19
  It's too different, so it's just difficult.
• 2:08:21
  When you talk about. New music as a quotation fingers
• 2:08:24
  legacy band it's just a. I'm so excited about the place
• 2:08:27
  after this one and I think it's our best work to date.
• 2:08:30
  Like I think. The, the lyrics, the
• 2:08:32
  compositions of the songs, I we're all better writers.
• 2:08:35
  I mean, you're not getting smaller.
• 2:08:37
  So no, no, you're definitely doing something right, but.
• 2:08:40
  People don't want. I don't.
• 2:08:43
  Believe that people want. New music from Underoath.
• 2:08:45
  They wouldn't come to the This is this is a fucking neurosis on
• 2:08:49
  your. End it is.
• 2:08:51
  They wouldn't still be coming to the show if you were getting
• 2:08:54
  smaller. I'd agree.
• 2:08:54
  I'm aware of neurosis, but you asked me if I'd like to talk
• 2:08:56
  about it. No, I know that's sort of where
• 2:08:58
  I'm at. It's.
• 2:08:59
  Like, I just don't. It does I I love what we do and
• 2:09:02
  I love what we make and we are healthier than we ever been as a
• 2:09:05
  band. It was always such tumultuous
• 2:09:07
  times making music, and it's still got its underpinnings of
• 2:09:11
  like, you know, what's this going to be?
• 2:09:14
  But we had a great time making the record.
• 2:09:17
  We rented a cabin up in the woods in Georgia and just did it
• 2:09:20
  all there. It was fucking sick.
• 2:09:22
  Had a movie theater in it and the hot tub was so sick and it
• 2:09:24
  was out in the middle of fucking nowhere.
• 2:09:26
  It was awesome, but people just want to hear to find the great
• 2:09:30
  line in. My head and.
• 2:09:32
  They're only chasing safety. So talking about it, I know
• 2:09:34
  people are going to call back to that and it's hard and and
• 2:09:38
  imagine if you're in a real big band like Metallica.
• 2:09:40
  I mean, how many times did they hear right, the Lightning in the
• 2:09:42
  Black album or whatever? I mean, Can you imagine?
• 2:09:45
  But people are still turning up. They are my good example of.
• 2:09:49
  That is when I. Try and like think about those
• 2:09:52
  things is Slipknot. There are kids present, company
• 2:09:58
  included, who like. Put Slipknot on.
• 2:10:02
  Earlier today, guess what songs you put on?
• 2:10:06
  Like if you were putting Slipknot on, you're putting
• 2:10:07
  fucking wait and bleed or spit it out.
• 2:10:09
  On, yeah, you're putting one of. Those on fucking pop song like
• 2:10:12
  Custer, it's like a, you know, great song, but it's like 4
• 2:10:15
  years old or whatever. And and you got to remember that
• 2:10:18
  there's a revolving door of the amount of people that are
• 2:10:22
  they're not making this music anymore, so I'm not going to
• 2:10:25
  listen to them. The new album gets the new fans
• 2:10:28
  and that's their new fan. I understand that's how it
• 2:10:30
  works, but like when I was growing up I I would.
• 2:10:33
  Always listen to bands newest stuff first because I'm like
• 2:10:38
  well this is this must be. What they want us to hear.
• 2:10:41
  They put their. Best leg forward, you know.
• 2:10:43
  What I mean? But the reality is, is as you
• 2:10:45
  grow older and you make more and more music, it all is through
• 2:10:50
  this weird prism of like. We've had the success.
• 2:10:54
  Or we've had this failure, whatever the prism is, you, you.
• 2:10:56
  Make it through that prism. Even if you don't know you're
• 2:10:58
  doing it. And there's a reason why when
• 2:11:00
  you sit down with someone at this table probably, and you
• 2:11:03
  talk about bands, albums, people always, always in any walk of
• 2:11:07
  life go. I love their first album the
• 2:11:08
  most. Why?
• 2:11:09
  And here's why. Because there was no pretense,
• 2:11:13
  you know what I mean? When we made Chasing Safety, we
• 2:11:15
  just did it. There was no prism.
• 2:11:17
  But then there's also an element.
• 2:11:18
  Of people trying to seem like they've liked the band for ages.
• 2:11:21
  Probably you can. Cut 10% of those people into
• 2:11:23
  just being like, I want to seem like I liked the band back then.
• 2:11:26
  And also Spotify's fucked it because you will.
• 2:11:31
  You sold 100,000 copies of, you know how many golds you got?
• 2:11:35
  Is that 100,000 in gold? 5500 thousand.
• 2:11:37
  How is it you got gold yet? Two.
• 2:11:40
  Fuck yeah. Flex anyway, but.
• 2:11:42
  You sold that many, so there's people that.
• 2:11:44
  Then. Switched to digital that many
• 2:11:46
  people were still listening to that record on Spotify.
• 2:11:48
  So if someone goes to Spotify to check out Underoath, that record
• 2:11:51
  is at the top, not your new one. It's true.
• 2:11:52
  That's a bummer. It's a bummer they're doing a
• 2:11:56
  mis service like I think for. It I think it's maybe.
• 2:11:59
  Six months after the record comes out, the top thing is
• 2:12:02
  that, you know, latest release and then it does flip back down
• 2:12:06
  to what? Well, if you look at Apple Music
• 2:12:07
  right now, like Boy Brush Red is our most listened to song.
• 2:12:10
  So it's at the top. We have a new album out, you
• 2:12:13
  know, in March, and that's in again.
• 2:12:16
  That's that's where the algorithm has failed us.
• 2:12:18
  You know, when you used to go to the record store and you wanted
• 2:12:22
  to go by color and the shape by Foo Fighters, that was all that
• 2:12:24
  there was. You couldn't find the first
• 2:12:26
  record with a ray gun on it. You couldn't get it.
• 2:12:28
  I was talking about that record yesterday, but you couldn't find
• 2:12:31
  that fucking thing like I remember going to.
• 2:12:33
  Get color in the shape and I was.
• 2:12:35
  Like, I'll buy both. Yeah.
• 2:12:36
  And it was, yeah. You couldn't get it.
• 2:12:38
  Yeah, you couldn't get it. And that's.
• 2:12:40
  Why you always assumed that? An artist's first artist's best
• 2:12:44
  work was whatever you could get. I mean, and actually
• 2:12:48
  philosophically speaking. An artist to themselves unless
• 2:12:52
  they are fucking insincere. An artist latest work is their
• 2:12:56
  best work because otherwise why would I was going to say unless
• 2:12:59
  I would never finish tracking an album being like.
• 2:13:02
  Well, that sucks. Let's.
• 2:13:03
  Put it out like we always, yeah, we always, yeah, we always are
• 2:13:09
  trying to make our best work. And admittedly, our situations
• 2:13:13
  and who we are as people change, and that may not put out what is
• 2:13:18
  your perception of our best work, but rest assured, it's
• 2:13:22
  these people, this band's best work.
• 2:13:24
  Every person that's a fan of either our bands could hear
• 2:13:28
  that. Would he could hear that and
• 2:13:30
  really receive it. We I think we'd be and everyone
• 2:13:33
  agreed we'd be rowing a different boat.
• 2:13:35
  I think if you could, if you could say this is the best we
• 2:13:38
  have to offer you and we we gave you this because we love it.
• 2:13:42
  Like we believe in it, like like cellularly, we believe in this
• 2:13:47
  piece of music that, you know, we worked for weeks on this 45
• 2:13:50
  minutes for you. But that's also to bring it back
• 2:13:53
  around to why I started this. Do you like doing press thing?
• 2:13:56
  My whole this whole The Downbeat is was made out of an antithesis
• 2:14:01
  of how much I hate doing press, but also how much more connected
• 2:14:06
  to a band I used to feel pre podcasts when they'd have like a
• 2:14:11
  DVD like the eated DVD's, prime example, like I'd watch those
• 2:14:15
  and I'd be like, I don't even give a fuck what this band
• 2:14:18
  sounds like that Greg shitting on the thing and Dinnerjar was
• 2:14:21
  like, that's my favorite fucking band.
• 2:14:23
  So I think like long form conversations like this where we
• 2:14:25
  necessarily we did touch on your music, but like this, I hate to
• 2:14:30
  use the phrase but or the term, but this sells people on you so
• 2:14:36
  that they are more in tune with who you are to then go check out
• 2:14:40
  your new stuff. The long form thing gives you,
• 2:14:42
  gives you an idea of someone's ethos.
• 2:14:44
  Yeah. What they're about like, and I
• 2:14:47
  and you know, you watch this or you listen to this when you're
• 2:14:50
  on the treadmill and you really, you hear the heart of a person
• 2:14:53
  and that makes you want to listen to it.
• 2:14:54
  And it's, we used to call it GBBB.
• 2:14:56
  So like I was explaining this, you know, like I would explain
• 2:15:00
  it again because I explained it to.
• 2:15:01
  Madison, GGBB. You might you.
• 2:15:03
  You get a band. Gets you go on tour with the
• 2:15:06
  band and. Your agent pitches them to you
• 2:15:09
  or whatever. They're big at the time so that
• 2:15:12
  you get sent them and you don't like the music.
• 2:15:14
  And you're like, well, you know, I hope they're cool and they
• 2:15:17
  come on tour and they're the best people, and you learn about
• 2:15:21
  them as humans and then you love the band.
• 2:15:23
  Yeah, it's a crazy thing, Bayside.
• 2:15:26
  I hated Bayside musically. I didn't like it.
• 2:15:28
  They're the best guys. Oh my God.
• 2:15:30
  And then we toured with them in like 07.
• 2:15:33
  On Warp Tour and I, I. I love Bayside.
• 2:15:36
  Yeah, Like, it's crazy. Yeah.
• 2:15:37
  When they put out a record like that.
• 2:15:38
  My podcast is. And it's not even to say they're
• 2:15:41
  bad bands. It's just you.
• 2:15:42
  Oh, you're. Not into, I'm not into that.
• 2:15:44
  And then you get to know the person and it just changes your
• 2:15:47
  fucking opinion. And I think that's what I do
• 2:15:49
  here. And fuck you.
• 2:15:50
  Anyone that says like, Oh, you don't do, you don't talk about
• 2:15:54
  the album enough or whatever, It's like, no, what I'm doing is
• 2:15:56
  underneath the surface. You are learning the person, so
• 2:16:00
  you're going to like the album even if we haven't fucking spoke
• 2:16:02
  about it because he's a fucking legend or the other or the OR
• 2:16:05
  the upturn is like you sometimes.
• 2:16:08
  Meet people and you love the music and and the person is a
• 2:16:11
  cop. That's the worst.
• 2:16:12
  And that hurts. That's there's another.
• 2:16:15
  There's another, and that's like all they go that's happening
• 2:16:20
  now, too. You know Simon, you're.
• 2:16:22
  Going to have to fucking. Bleep that out, the ego can
• 2:16:26
  kill. It for me too, like a certain
• 2:16:27
  brand of ego, like Liam's. Ego I like, yeah, you know what
• 2:16:31
  I mean? Like, it's ridiculous, but I
• 2:16:33
  like it. But there's certain types of ego
• 2:16:36
  you can't over ever have. People say that about you all
• 2:16:39
  the time. Yeah, I know.
• 2:16:40
  Yeah, people told. Me before we talked together.
• 2:16:43
  Really. Yeah.
• 2:16:44
  Who taught I don't want to ruin your fucking I can't remember
• 2:16:47
  who it. Was but someone was like, oh,
• 2:16:48
  that guy's a. Dick And I was like, it was just
• 2:16:50
  like a random thing. I'm sorry that I can't remember
• 2:16:53
  who it was. That's right.
• 2:16:54
  And it and it's not someone you know either, so it's not in
• 2:16:56
  passing. It's not.
• 2:16:57
  Yeah, and I was. Like, oh, that's weird.
• 2:16:59
  I go I don't know anything about him, like love is drumming away,
• 2:17:01
  but I know I met you on day one and I was like, who the fuck was
• 2:17:04
  that guy talking about? Because it's not this guy,
• 2:17:06
  because you never know. I get I get it all the time.
• 2:17:08
  Well, you never know, you could you could see in your lovely
• 2:17:11
  guy. People think I'm a Dick head.
• 2:17:13
  You could you you see a person at the wrong time.
• 2:17:16
  You know, like that's another thing I.
• 2:17:18
  Worry and if if we bump into someone outside a show.
• 2:17:21
  After we've met them, my first thing I do when I speak to
• 2:17:25
  Madison was like, was I OK? Was I like, was I nice?
• 2:17:28
  Was. And you're right, because I'm
• 2:17:30
  terrified. You're right to do so.
• 2:17:31
  I mean if I go on. Reddit.
• 2:17:34
  I I could get in. Trouble.
• 2:17:35
  Like I, I would go crazy by reading people's reactions to
• 2:17:38
  the a time they've met me and I was doing X or Y or who knows,
• 2:17:43
  you know what I mean? Like I've gotten phone calls on
• 2:17:46
  tour that my wife, they told my wife that our daughter had Down
• 2:17:49
  syndrome if I met, she doesn't. But I've gotten those phone
• 2:17:53
  calls on tour. Like stuff happens.
• 2:17:55
  Like she got a. Test done when she was.
• 2:17:56
  Pregnant and they told us that our daughter had Down syndrome.
• 2:17:58
  She doesn't, but they told us that through the test.
• 2:18:01
  And so whoever met me that day. Oh, OK.
• 2:18:04
  I thought you were saying people were making up a rumor.
• 2:18:06
  No, no, no, no. I'm saying.
• 2:18:07
  Like you never know what you're going to get from a person.
• 2:18:09
  That's why you ask. If you know, you ask your.
• 2:18:10
  Girl, am I OK? Was I OK to that?
• 2:18:12
  Because you don't know, like you don't know, like you don't know
• 2:18:15
  when you're going to catch someone.
• 2:18:17
  You know what I mean? Like the day, the day that we
• 2:18:19
  got that news, Whoever I met, I was at a show.
• 2:18:22
  Yeah. Took that phone call out in the
• 2:18:23
  back of the club. So whoever I met that night in a
• 2:18:26
  meet and greet or whatever, I'm sure it was an asshole.
• 2:18:29
  I'm sure maybe that was the same person.
• 2:18:30
  Wait, we're going to run out of battery?
• 2:18:32
  If you like this episode. Thank you.
• 2:18:34
  Dude, fucking boy. I could have done this for like
• 2:18:36
  5 hours. We could just do it.
• 2:18:38
  We just do it again. Yeah, if you're annoyed that
• 2:18:40
  this is ending right. Now.
• 2:18:42
  Subscribe to the Patreon because the cards that I need to have
• 2:18:47
  more space on these cameras are like $600.00 each.
• 2:18:51
  Fuck. So give me some money and pay
• 2:18:53
  them in. That wouldn't have ended.
• 2:18:55
  Thank you Aaron dude so fun. Check out Underoath new record.
• 2:18:58
  Check out Aaron on social media. Love you, love you peace.