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Hell and Gone Murder Line: KK's Corner Part 4 · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

0:46
Speaker 1: School of Humans.
0:49
Speaker 2: Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in
0:53
Speaker 2: an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come
0:56
Speaker 2: forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated
1:00
Speaker 2: by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and
1:03
Speaker 2: community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and
1:07
Speaker 2: point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases.
1:12
Speaker 2: We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven
1:15
Speaker 2: guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast
1:19
Speaker 2: is intended to state or imply that anyone who has
1:22
Speaker 2: not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing.
1:26
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.
1:29
Speaker 3: After Kevin Abel died and his death was ruled a suicide,
1:33
Speaker 3: Stacy Reeves was scared. Kevin's friend Jordan, said that Stacy
1:38
Speaker 3: told her that Kevin was in serious trouble, that he
1:42
Speaker 3: owed a lot of drug money to people, and that
1:45
Speaker 3: she was planning on talking to police officers about what
1:48
Speaker 3: she knew. One of the officers she spoke with was
1:51
Speaker 3: Jerome the Straps. She also told us she wasn't convinced
1:57
Speaker 3: that Kevin's death was a suicide.
1:59
Speaker 4: Think of the funniest person you know and that was Kevin,
2:03
Speaker 4: always smile and laugh and taking joking, that kind of person.
2:06
Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden they killed himself, which happened.
2:10
Speaker 4: The reason I don't think it happened to Kevin wasn't
2:12
Speaker 4: just because of personality. I believe because of what Stacey
2:16
Speaker 4: told me. She said that Kevin had gotten some trouble
2:21
Speaker 4: behind drug money, owed someone drug lay.
2:24
Speaker 3: This immediately sent alarm bells off for Jordans, since she
2:28
Speaker 3: knew about Jerome, and Jordan said that she didn't trust him.
2:32
Speaker 3: Now there's no evidence that Jerome was straps did anything wrong,
2:37
Speaker 3: but police did later call him in for questioning about
2:40
Speaker 3: kk's corners, asking.
2:42
Speaker 1: What he knew and when he knew.
2:44
Speaker 3: We're trying to understand these relationships because in Calcushy Perish
2:49
Speaker 3: they run deep.
2:51
Speaker 4: She says, hey, do you know what Jerome was strapped?
2:55
Speaker 4: And I looked at her and I said, yes, I do.
2:57
Speaker 4: Why And she said because I've been talking to him
3:00
Speaker 4: about Kevin's case. And I said, Stacy, you don't need
3:04
Speaker 4: to do that. He's dirty. She said, well, I know
3:07
Speaker 4: who killed him, and I said who and she said,
3:10
Speaker 4: Richard McKelvin had him killed. And I grabbed my head,
3:13
Speaker 4: and I said, did you tell Jerome with strapsus? Jerome
3:16
Speaker 4: with Straps is a narcotics officer, so anyway, I told
3:20
Speaker 4: her my exact words, Tours, you need to go buy
3:22
Speaker 4: a gun and you need to keep it on you
3:24
Speaker 4: at all times because this isn't going to end good.
3:27
Speaker 4: I said, Call Jerome. Tell him that you were just
3:30
Speaker 4: listening to what other people were saying and you were
3:32
Speaker 4: believing it because you were grieving. And just tell him
3:36
Speaker 4: that you know you didn't know any of it to
3:38
Speaker 4: be true. I said, Stacey, please promise me. And that
3:41
Speaker 4: was it. That was the last words I said.
3:45
Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend.
3:46
Speaker 3: Over the past five years of making my true crime podcast,
3:49
Speaker 3: Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing
3:52
Speaker 3: as a small town where murder never happens. I have
3:56
Speaker 3: received hundreds of messages from people all around the country
3:59
Speaker 3: asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them,
4:02
Speaker 3: their families.
4:03
Speaker 1: And their communities.
4:05
Speaker 3: If you have a case you'd like me and my
4:06
Speaker 3: team to look into, you can reach out to us
4:09
Speaker 3: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight
4:12
Speaker 3: seven four four, six one four or five. That's six seven,
4:15
Speaker 3: eight seven four four, six' one four or, five or
4:19
Speaker 3: you can send us a message On instagram At Helen.
4:22
Speaker 3: Gonpott this Is Helen Gone Murder. Line we've been covering
5:07
Speaker 3: The Kk's corner case for weeks And i've read every
5:11
Speaker 3: single article out there about the, case including a lot
5:14
Speaker 3: from the local, newspaper The American. Press i've seen THE id,
5:18
Speaker 3: special And i've Seen America's Most. Wanted in my, opinion
5:23
Speaker 3: there's a lot left out of these reports because after
5:26
Speaker 3: the initial rumors About Richard, mcalvin who was cleared by,
5:29
Speaker 3: police pretty much the only suspect ever mentioned in news
5:33
Speaker 3: reports is twenty nine year Old Tomas. Cisco we're finding
5:37
Speaker 3: out that even though it was late at night and
5:39
Speaker 3: the store was, closing there were more people coming Through
5:43
Speaker 3: Kyk's corner in the early morning hours Of july, sixth
5:46
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven than originally. Thought both before and after
5:51
Speaker 3: twenty one year Old Marty, lebuff twenty six year Old Stacy,
5:54
Speaker 3: reeves and.
5:55
Speaker 1: Fourteen year Old Nicole guildry were brutally.
5:57
Speaker 3: Murdered police had no clear suspects until after the episode
6:03
Speaker 3: Of America's Most wanted, aired and they became laser focused
6:07
Speaker 3: On Thomas. Cisco from what we, know they never found
6:11
Speaker 3: the other, man the one in the composite. Drawings Tomas
6:15
Speaker 3: cisco was convicted of all three, murders but following an,
6:18
Speaker 3: appeal which he, won he got a new. Trial after a,
6:22
Speaker 3: deal he pleaded guilty to three counts of manslaughter and
6:26
Speaker 3: was sentenced to ninety years in. Prison he's up for
6:29
Speaker 3: parole this. Year because the second killer was never, caught
6:33
Speaker 3: most of the case file is still. Unavailable we did
6:37
Speaker 3: get some responses to our foyer. Requests we don't have
6:40
Speaker 3: the entire court transcripts because we were told that the
6:43
Speaker 3: would cost around thirteen hundred, dollars but we do have
6:47
Speaker 3: a few, elements including the closing arguments from both sides
6:51
Speaker 3: and through civil depositions that were given to us by family.
6:55
Speaker 3: Members we've been trying to piece together the police. Investigation
7:00
Speaker 3: it turns out there were several suspects who were questioned by.
7:03
Speaker 3: Police what happened to them and could one of them
7:07
Speaker 3: have been the second? Killer and what happened to the
7:09
Speaker 3: physical evidence the hares found on the bodies and the
7:12
Speaker 3: cigarette that was found in the. Cooler as we said last,
7:16
Speaker 3: week one of the things that it seemed like everyone
7:18
Speaker 3: agreed on was the fact That kk's corner seemed like
7:22
Speaker 3: an inside. Job there were a lot of other people
7:25
Speaker 3: who were interviewed by. Police one of the things that
7:28
Speaker 3: police did logically was asked the store's, Owner Kenny, klain
7:32
Speaker 3: about any disgruntled employees or anyone with a reason to
7:36
Speaker 3: be angry at him or the. Store one was a
7:39
Speaker 3: former employee Named Nathaniel. Gobert according to court, docu he
7:44
Speaker 3: was caught stealing money from the store a few weeks.
7:46
Speaker 3: Earlier he told police when they questioned, him he admitted
7:50
Speaker 3: to stealing three hundred and fifty eight dollars from the.
7:52
Speaker 3: Store buddy said That kenny had given him two weeks
7:55
Speaker 3: to pay the money.
7:56
Speaker 1: Back he, did And kenny dropped the.
7:58
Speaker 3: Charges nathaniel told police that he was banned from the
8:02
Speaker 3: store and had not been back in since his. Firing
8:05
Speaker 3: police Asked nathaniel where he was on the night of the.
8:08
Speaker 3: Killings he said that he was with friends eating pizza
8:11
Speaker 3: on the evening Of july. Fifth police apparently verified his
8:15
Speaker 3: alibi And nathaniel passed a polygraph. Test Huey, lyttleton the
8:19
Speaker 3: insurance investigator who had done his own investigations in The
8:22
Speaker 3: ellender murders also called people to interview them About Kk's
8:27
Speaker 3: corner And Hughey lyttleton presented evidence to police, later including
8:32
Speaker 3: a videotaped interview with a friend Of nathaniel's who claimed
8:35
Speaker 3: That nathaniel had talked about committing the murders for money
8:39
Speaker 3: and said that he didn't Like. Stacy according to court,
8:42
Speaker 3: documents the VC f did talk to these. Friends nathaniel
8:47
Speaker 3: had an, alibi and apparently police decided that was the
8:50
Speaker 3: end of.
8:50
Speaker 1: That it seemed to be another strange dead.
8:53
Speaker 3: End Evelyn ubray mentioned in her closing arguments that law
8:58
Speaker 3: enforcement believed that the killer was someone with intimate knowledge
9:01
Speaker 3: of the store for several. Reasons one the fact that
9:04
Speaker 3: the killer had cut the phone. Lines, also the killer
9:07
Speaker 3: appeared to Know stacey And marty and apparently knew what
9:11
Speaker 3: time the store. Closed they knew about the video. Surveillance
9:14
Speaker 3: they knew that the money would be in the. Safe,
9:16
Speaker 3: also they were able to rob the store right before
9:19
Speaker 3: the alarm company would be alerted at one. Am the
9:23
Speaker 3: window when the murder happened is actually pretty. Small according
9:27
Speaker 3: to information that came out in, Court THE fbi stated
9:30
Speaker 3: that kk's corner was one of the most heavily trafficked
9:33
Speaker 3: convenience stores in that. Region there were people coming and
9:37
Speaker 3: going from the store all. Night one of the store,
9:41
Speaker 3: Managers Sherwood, carpenter told police he called the store at
9:44
Speaker 3: about eleven thirty. Pm he said he was chatting To
9:47
Speaker 3: stacy from then until around eleven forty. Three that's When
9:51
Speaker 3: stacy told him she needed to hang at the phone
9:53
Speaker 3: and finish mopping the. Floors, now during this, time witnesses
9:57
Speaker 3: did see people in the.
9:58
Speaker 1: Store marty was working at the.
9:59
Speaker 3: Counter then just a few minutes after, That Virginia johnson
10:03
Speaker 3: stopped by at around eleven forty FIVE pm to get.
10:06
Speaker 3: Gas Sherwood carpenter called again at twelve oh six, am
10:10
Speaker 3: but no one. Answered, now that was inside the, store
10:14
Speaker 3: but the parking lot outside the store also had its
10:16
Speaker 3: own group of, regulars even after the store closed at.
10:20
Speaker 3: Midnight remember That Virginia johnson and her boyfriend drove By
10:29
Speaker 3: kk's again at around twelve thirty. Am they saw the
10:33
Speaker 3: red truck with the passenger door open and the black
10:36
Speaker 3: car with the trunk open still parked at the same
10:39
Speaker 3: spot Where virginia had noticed them. Earlier by the side
10:42
Speaker 3: entrance of the. Store minutes after, that there was another
10:45
Speaker 3: guy who was a friend Of. Marty's he worked At
10:48
Speaker 3: Little Caesar's. Pizza he drove by at around twelve thirty five.
10:51
Speaker 3: Am he Noticed marty And stacy's cars there and thought
10:55
Speaker 3: that was a little bit, odd but figured maybe they
10:57
Speaker 3: were just closing up later. Something but this person told
11:01
Speaker 3: police he did not notice a red truck or a black.
11:04
Speaker 3: Car there were also some men who showed up every
11:08
Speaker 3: night for their paper. Route the local, newspaper The Late
11:11
Speaker 3: Charles American, press had a van that would arrive in
11:14
Speaker 3: the early morning hours to drop papers with the delivery.
11:17
Speaker 3: Men those men would wait in the kk's parking lot
11:21
Speaker 3: for that van and then hang out and usually fold
11:23
Speaker 3: their papers there before starting out on their. Route, now
11:27
Speaker 3: one of those paper delivery, Guys Jerry, peters told police
11:30
Speaker 3: that he was waiting to pick up his papers At
11:32
Speaker 3: kk's between one p fifteen and one thirty. Am he
11:36
Speaker 3: was parked across the street at The Fairview estates trailer,
11:38
Speaker 3: park and while he was, there he said that he
11:42
Speaker 3: saw an Unmarked Share department vehicle also pull into The
11:46
Speaker 3: Fairview estate's trailer. Park Then jerry said he saw a
11:50
Speaker 3: white male get out of a Green Eagle, talon A
11:53
Speaker 3: s forty car with a hatchback that was made By
11:55
Speaker 3: chrysler And. Mitsubishi jerry said that he saw the man
11:59
Speaker 3: go over to The Sheriff's department vehicle and then go
12:02
Speaker 3: back to his own car as the police car pulled
12:04
Speaker 3: in behind. Him the guy in the police car got
12:07
Speaker 3: out opened his. Trunk jerry said that he thought the
12:10
Speaker 3: other guy in The talon also opened his. Trunk he
12:13
Speaker 3: said they talked, briefly and Then jerry saw that the
12:16
Speaker 3: guy with The talon slammed his. Trunk In jerry's, words
12:19
Speaker 3: that man looked visibly. Upset then he got back in
12:23
Speaker 3: his car and drove, off almost backing into the police
12:26
Speaker 3: car in the. Process then both cars turned north On
12:29
Speaker 3: highway fourteen and. Disappeared the man in the Unmarked Sheriff's
12:34
Speaker 3: department vehicle has never been. Identified what was he doing?
12:39
Speaker 3: There could he have had something to do with the
12:41
Speaker 3: killings At kk's corner or could he have known what
12:44
Speaker 3: was going down that. Night in closing, Arguments Thomas cisco's,
12:49
Speaker 3: Lawyer evelyn New bray mentioned another potential Suspect Miles. Addison
12:55
Speaker 3: she pointed out That Miles addison knew the workings of the,
12:57
Speaker 3: store the surveillance, videos the, videotape That Miles addison Knew
13:01
Speaker 3: marty And, stacey and that he knew the store. Procedures
13:04
Speaker 3: at closing, Time evelyn U bray also Mentioned richard mcelvin
13:09
Speaker 3: and another suspect that the police had. Suggested at one
13:12
Speaker 3: point she noticed those men's similarities to the composite.
13:17
Speaker 1: Photo evelyn New bray.
13:19
Speaker 3: Said that none of these potential suspects had any connection
13:22
Speaker 3: To Thomas, cisco THOUGH i will point out one possible
13:26
Speaker 3: connection is the fact that they all did Know Stacy.
13:28
Speaker 3: Reeves evelyn also highlighted problems With Thomas cisco's. Confessions she
13:35
Speaker 3: questioned Whether Thomas cisco was really giving information to the
13:39
Speaker 3: police that only the killer would have, known or just
13:42
Speaker 3: repeating information that he could have gotten from Watching America's Most.
13:46
Speaker 3: Wanted we know That Virginia johnson was driving her boyfriend's
13:50
Speaker 3: black pickup truck that. Night Thomas cisco told police he
13:54
Speaker 3: saw the witness pull up in a turquoise. Car now
13:57
Speaker 3: in her closing, Statement evelyn New bray pointed out that
14:00
Speaker 3: The America's Most wanted re enactment showed the perpetrator pulling
14:04
Speaker 3: up in a blue, car And Thomas cisco said in
14:08
Speaker 3: every version of his story that the witness was, white
14:12
Speaker 3: While Virginia johnson is black And Tomas cisco wasn't the
14:16
Speaker 3: only person whose memory and Testimony evelyn called. Out under,
14:21
Speaker 3: Hypnosis Virginia johnson talked about the second man she. Saw
14:25
Speaker 3: she said that that second man had a rabbit head.
14:28
Speaker 3: Keychain the rabbit head did not become a rabbit foot until.
14:32
Speaker 3: Later we've talked about this. Before evelya and New bray
14:36
Speaker 3: wondered in court whether it could have been a playboy
14:39
Speaker 3: bunny symbol those were everywhere in the, nineties or something.
14:42
Speaker 3: Else how did investigators get the change from rabbit's head
14:47
Speaker 3: to rabbit's. Foot, Also Virginia johnson mentioned seeing the.
14:52
Speaker 1: Hair on the arms of the.
14:53
Speaker 3: Witness Tomas cisco has several tattoos on his, arm including a,
14:58
Speaker 3: dragon Yet Virginia johnson never mentioned a tattoo until the,
15:02
Speaker 3: lineup when she said that she remembered the second, man
15:05
Speaker 3: the one she hadn't seen that clearly had tattoos on his.
15:09
Speaker 3: Hands Virginia johnson said the, Victim Nicole, guidry had hair
15:13
Speaker 3: that was long in a, ponytail when in, Reality nicole's
15:17
Speaker 3: hair was four inches.
15:18
Speaker 1: Long but in The America's Most.
15:20
Speaker 3: Wanted, episode the re enactment actor Playing nicole had, long
15:24
Speaker 3: dark hair in a. Ponytail same story With Stacy reeve's.
15:28
Speaker 3: Outfit stacy was wearing an orange shirt and orange. Shorts
15:32
Speaker 3: virginia said the shirt was lime green and That stacy
15:34
Speaker 3: was wearing blue jean shorts that went down to her. Knees,
15:37
Speaker 3: again that's what the actress Playing stacy wore on THE tv. Show,
15:42
Speaker 3: basically the defense called into question Whether Virginia johnson actually
15:46
Speaker 3: remembered what she thought she, remembered or whether it could
15:49
Speaker 3: have been something she saw ON tv or something that
15:52
Speaker 3: was suggested to, her even totally unintentionally by police or
15:56
Speaker 3: by other. People we found out that there were a
15:59
Speaker 3: lot of inconsistencies In Virginia johnson's. Story in her closing,
16:04
Speaker 3: Arguments evelyne New bray talked about what she claimed were
16:07
Speaker 3: flaws in the witness. Identification we mentioned in earlier episodes
16:12
Speaker 3: that a lot of people in town talked about how
16:14
Speaker 3: the composite photo looked similar To Richard. Mcalvin but it
16:18
Speaker 3: turns Out Richard mcalvin was not the only person with
16:21
Speaker 3: a resemblance to that. Photo evelyn New bray said the
16:24
Speaker 3: photo resembled other, people including former Kk's corner Employee Miles
16:29
Speaker 3: adison and another. Man she showed those photos and the
16:33
Speaker 3: composite drawings side by side in that. Courtroom, meanwhile she
16:37
Speaker 3: said there were no composite drawings that Resembled Tomas. Cisco
16:41
Speaker 3: in closing, arguments she taught talked about the difference between
16:45
Speaker 3: direct evidence like a, witness an indirect or circumstantial. Evidence
16:49
Speaker 3: to illustrate, that she gave the example of someone seeing
16:52
Speaker 3: a person come in with a, gun then hearing a,
16:55
Speaker 3: shot and seeing that.
16:56
Speaker 1: Person flee the. Scene that would be indirect.
16:59
Speaker 3: Evidence she said that the case Against Thomas cisco was
17:03
Speaker 3: entirely circumstantial and the jury was instructed they could not
17:06
Speaker 3: convict a defendant based on circumstantial evidence unless quote the
17:10
Speaker 3: facts proved by the evidence exclude every reasonable hypothesis of
17:15
Speaker 3: innocence end. Quote there was no physical, evidence no scientific,
17:20
Speaker 3: evidence and no direct evidence Against Tomas. Cisco evely And
17:25
Speaker 3: wbray also talked about common. Sense she said that this
17:28
Speaker 3: crime did not make sense from a common sense point
17:31
Speaker 3: of view. Either she asked a question that a lot
17:33
Speaker 3: of people have, asked why would someone drive all the
17:36
Speaker 3: way From New orleans to Rob Kk's, corner one of
17:39
Speaker 3: the most highly trafficked convenience stores in that.
17:41
Speaker 1: Area she asked the jury to.
17:44
Speaker 3: Consider how someone Of Thomas, cisco's as she called, it limited,
17:48
Speaker 3: intelligence who according to his medical, records had, blackouts and
17:51
Speaker 3: who did, drugs and who, was according to his own
17:54
Speaker 3: testimony a lot of the time blacked out on drugs
17:56
Speaker 3: during this time. Period how someone like that could have
18:00
Speaker 3: planned a crime that involved intimate knowledge of the store
18:03
Speaker 3: and left no evidence. Behind Evelyn ubray told the jury
18:07
Speaker 3: That Thomas cisco would not have had the knowledge of
18:09
Speaker 3: the store's security systems or the knowledge of how to
18:12
Speaker 3: cut those phone. Lines and she said none of the
18:15
Speaker 3: suspects or potential people of interest that the police had
18:18
Speaker 3: questioned or even, considered had any connection To Thomas. Cisco
18:23
Speaker 3: the prosecuting, Attorney Rick bryant. Countered he, Said Thomas cisco
18:27
Speaker 3: was not, naive he was not, dumb he was extremely street,
18:31
Speaker 3: smart and he absolutely could have had a role in
18:34
Speaker 3: the murders And Rick bryant asked Why Virginia, johnson the,
18:38
Speaker 3: witness would have any reason to. Lie Evelyn ubray said
18:42
Speaker 3: she might not have intentionedly, lied but that memory is
18:45
Speaker 3: like a tape.
18:46
Speaker 1: Recorder things can be.
18:47
Speaker 3: Distorted even if people think their recall is, perfect they
18:52
Speaker 3: could be dead. Wrong she also talked about the fact
18:55
Speaker 3: that many of the details of the WITNESS id did
18:58
Speaker 3: not come out until months after the, murder When Virginia
19:00
Speaker 3: johnson was. Hypnotized so let's talk about this hypnosis for a.
19:05
Speaker 3: Minute we did some. Digging we found out the hypnosis
19:08
Speaker 3: was done by a forensic psychologist named Doctor Michael. Gallis
19:12
Speaker 3: now Doctor gallis is very well. Known he was the
19:15
Speaker 3: chief forensic psychologist for The Naval Criminal Investigative services in
19:19
Speaker 3: two thousand and two when he and some of his
19:21
Speaker 3: colleagues found out The navy was using unauthorized interrogation techniques
19:26
Speaker 3: on one of the suspected hijackers from nine to. Eleven
19:29
Speaker 3: they claimed that Hijacker mohammad Al catani had been deprived
19:33
Speaker 3: of sleep for twenty eight. Days Doctor gallis was praised
19:37
Speaker 3: for blowing the whistle about these illegal interrogations that were
19:40
Speaker 3: happening In Guantanamo, bay but his career has also had
19:43
Speaker 3: its share of. Controversy in nineteen ninety, nine Doctor gellis
19:47
Speaker 3: interviewed A naval Officer Petty, Officer Daniel. Kane daniel had
19:51
Speaker 3: been stationed In. Guam he was supposed to start a
19:54
Speaker 3: new assignment with THE. Nsa before he accepted that, position
19:58
Speaker 3: he apparently had to take a routine polygraph.
20:00
Speaker 1: Test the test was.
20:02
Speaker 3: Inconclusive daniel ended up being charged with providing classified information
20:06
Speaker 3: ABOUT us submarine intelligence programs To. Russia SO ncis agents
20:11
Speaker 3: started Interrogating. Daniel they detained, him which they were allowed to,
20:15
Speaker 3: do and the questioning sessions lasted.
20:17
Speaker 1: Between twelve and nineteen.
20:19
Speaker 3: Hours they did this for twenty nine, days and When
20:24
Speaker 3: daniel asked for a, lawyer they ignored. Him daniel started
20:28
Speaker 3: to lose touch with. Reality he told his interrogators that
20:31
Speaker 3: he was depressed in. Suicidal after about three weeks of,
20:35
Speaker 3: this he told the agents holding him he wanted to
20:38
Speaker 3: see a, psychiatrist so that's when they brought in Doctor.
20:41
Speaker 3: Gellis daniel told Doctor galllis that he couldn't remember committing,
20:45
Speaker 3: espionage but said Doctor gallis told him the polygraph examination
20:50
Speaker 3: proved he must have done. Something this obviously wasn't. True
20:54
Speaker 3: daniel was also told that he had failed the polygraph
20:56
Speaker 3: test that also wasn't. True the results were. Inconclusive according
21:01
Speaker 3: to a later, Complaint daniel became extremely distraught during this.
21:05
Speaker 3: Questioning he grabbed a knife and tried to stab himself
21:09
Speaker 3: in the. Stomach After Daniel king was eventually, released his
21:13
Speaker 3: attorney filed an ethics complaint against Doctor gallis with THE,
21:16
Speaker 3: apa but it was not, accepted and the controversy over
21:21
Speaker 3: Doctor gallis and over Those guantanamo interrogations continues to this.
21:25
Speaker 3: Day all of this went down just two years after
21:28
Speaker 3: the murders at Kk's. Corner i'm telling this story to
21:31
Speaker 3: illustrate that hypnosis is not some kind of magic.
21:34
Speaker 1: Bullet it's.
21:35
Speaker 3: Controversial the success of any interrogation relies heavily on the,
21:40
Speaker 3: interrogators and we know that there were many different versions
21:43
Speaker 3: Of Thomas cisco's story, told and many different versions Of Virginia.
21:48
Speaker 3: Johnson's during the Kk's corner, trial Doctor gellis testified about the.
21:53
Speaker 3: Hypnosis he said hypnosis was quote nothing more than a
21:58
Speaker 3: form of relaxation end. Quote he said there is no
22:01
Speaker 3: research to show that information obtained under hypnosis is. Accurate he,
22:06
Speaker 3: explained the only way to know for sure was to
22:08
Speaker 3: independently corroborate that. Information but in the Kk's corner, case
22:13
Speaker 3: corroborating the evidence was difficult, because as we have been
22:17
Speaker 3: told over and, over there was no physical. Evidence but
22:21
Speaker 3: it turned out that wasn't quite. True according to THE fbi,
22:24
Speaker 3: report Numerous caucasian hairs were found on the, bodies but
22:28
Speaker 3: none of those hairs were a match For Thomas. Cisco
22:31
Speaker 3: blood samples were taken from the crime. Scene none of
22:34
Speaker 3: the blood samples Matched Thomas, cisco and there were only
22:38
Speaker 3: four latent prints taken from the entire crime, scene but
22:42
Speaker 3: none of those prints were A machi. Either THE fbi
22:45
Speaker 3: report also mentioned there were other fibers at the crime,
22:47
Speaker 3: scene blue green and red carpet type. Fibers those fibers
22:53
Speaker 3: were taken off all of the. Victims investigators never found
22:57
Speaker 3: a match to those. Fibers Evelyn ubray stated in court
23:01
Speaker 3: That Tomas cisco was a chainsmoker and that there was
23:04
Speaker 3: a cigarette butt found on the floor of the, cooler
23:06
Speaker 3: but there was no record of that cigarette ever being
23:09
Speaker 3: processed FOR. Dna she asked why law enforcement did not
23:14
Speaker 3: test a cigarette that could have been linked to the.
23:16
Speaker 1: Killer we asked about the.
23:18
Speaker 3: Evidence we wanted to know whether it could be retested,
23:21
Speaker 3: today but we're still not sure of the. Status we
23:24
Speaker 3: don't know if the evidence still exists or what condition it's.
23:27
Speaker 3: In Lame lebuff believes that it burned in a, fire
23:31
Speaker 3: but we don't have confirmation of. That if it does
23:34
Speaker 3: exist and if they still have, it could it be
23:37
Speaker 3: retested and could that testing lead to another. Suspect At
23:45
Speaker 3: Thomas sisko's, trial his defense Attorney evelyn U bray was
23:49
Speaker 3: trying to focus the jury on alternative, suspects and a
23:52
Speaker 3: lot of people wondered if this case could be connected
23:56
Speaker 3: to drug deals that had been going down At Kk's.
23:58
Speaker 3: Corner you may remember from last week that the owner
24:01
Speaker 3: of the store at the, Time Kenny, klein said that
24:03
Speaker 3: about a year before the, murders an employee came to
24:06
Speaker 3: him and told him that several, employees Including Marty lebuff
24:10
Speaker 3: And Nathaniel, gobert were dealing drugs At Kk's. Corner police
24:15
Speaker 3: talked to the, Employee Stephen. Viator he said that when
24:19
Speaker 3: he Told kenny about the alleged drug. Dealing kenny told
24:22
Speaker 3: him that he should mind his own, business And stephen
24:25
Speaker 3: said his hours were cut from forty hours a week
24:27
Speaker 3: down to just a few soon, afterwards But kenny did
24:31
Speaker 3: tell law enforcement about his employee's. Suspicions and then two,
24:35
Speaker 3: Officers jerome With straps And jason, mcwright came by to
24:39
Speaker 3: try to do some undercover. Buys kenny said police told
24:43
Speaker 3: told him that the undercover buyers had. Failed they were
24:46
Speaker 3: unable to buy drugs at the, store so life went
24:49
Speaker 3: on at kk's. Corner after the, murders police talked to
24:54
Speaker 3: more than one person who said That marty was dealing
24:56
Speaker 3: marijuana out of kk's, corner and we know From miles
25:00
Speaker 3: addison statements to police that he was dealing drugs, too including,
25:04
Speaker 3: COCAINE lsd and pot out of the. Store according to police,
25:09
Speaker 3: Documents stacey had talked to two officers in the weeks
25:12
Speaker 3: before the murders about drug dealing in kk's. Corner one
25:15
Speaker 3: of them Was jerome With. Straps Detective deluge knew That
25:20
Speaker 3: jerome Was straps worked narcotics for THE Calcashu Paris Sheriff's,
25:23
Speaker 3: department so he contacted the chief Of detectives There John.
25:26
Speaker 3: Fryar he asked If stacy had been a confidential informant for.
25:30
Speaker 3: Anyone John fryar, said to his, Knowledge stacy never provided
25:35
Speaker 3: intel to any of his. Officers but, later according to court,
25:38
Speaker 3: Documents jerome With straps said he had talked To stacy
25:42
Speaker 3: about working under co with The sheriff's. Office he said
25:46
Speaker 3: she told him about people dealing Kevin abel drugs and
25:50
Speaker 3: her suspicion That kevin's death was not a. Homicide according
25:54
Speaker 3: to a statement made By jerome With, straps he Advised
25:57
Speaker 3: stacy that with two young, daughters undercover work might be
26:01
Speaker 3: dangerous for. Her he said he told her that if
26:03
Speaker 3: she had information About kevin's, death she should contact the
26:06
Speaker 3: investigator in charge of that. Case In february of nineteen ninety,
26:10
Speaker 3: nine the attorney working on a civil lawsuit Contacted jerome With.
26:15
Speaker 3: Straps he confirmed police did send an undercover officer in
26:19
Speaker 3: to make a buy AT. KKs they said that none
26:22
Speaker 3: of the employees suspected of selling drugs were on duty
26:25
Speaker 3: at that time and that.
26:26
Speaker 1: That's why it didn't.
26:27
Speaker 3: Work he said they hung around outside the store for
26:29
Speaker 3: a few nights and didn't see any evidence of drug,
26:32
Speaker 3: dealing so they suspended the. Operation, Now jerome With straps
26:36
Speaker 3: had a second. Job he worked security three nights a
26:39
Speaker 3: week at The kettle restaurant from twelve am to six.
26:42
Speaker 3: Am erome Said stacy would sometimes come into the restaurant
26:46
Speaker 3: and talk to. Him she would talk to him About
26:49
Speaker 3: kevin's drug dealing and her fears For kevin's life and
26:52
Speaker 3: later for her. Life jerome Said stacy talked to him
26:56
Speaker 3: three or four times Before kevin's death and two to
26:58
Speaker 3: three times. Afterward in the weeks before she was, Murdered
27:03
Speaker 3: jerome Was strapped said in the early morning hours Of july,
27:06
Speaker 3: six he was on his way to work at The.
27:08
Speaker 3: Kettle he said he was running, late and he drove
27:11
Speaker 3: through the kk's.
27:12
Speaker 1: Corner parking lot at twelve twenty two.
27:14
Speaker 3: Am he said at that point he noticed the store
27:17
Speaker 3: looked well, lit like it was open for. Business he
27:20
Speaker 3: said he remembered thinking that was slightly, unusual but thought
27:23
Speaker 3: maybe they were staying late because it was a holiday.
27:25
Speaker 3: Weekend So jerome Was straps was asked why he waited
27:30
Speaker 3: so long to reveal that he had been in that parking.
27:33
Speaker 3: Lot he said he didn't really have an answer for
27:36
Speaker 3: why he had not reported this information to police. Before
27:39
Speaker 3: he said he thought he might have Told Deputy deluche
27:42
Speaker 3: about him being in that parking lot at the crucial,
27:44
Speaker 3: time right around when the murders, happened but that he wasn't.
27:47
Speaker 3: Sure Sheila thigpen was one Of stacy's best. Friends she
27:51
Speaker 3: stated during a deposition That kevin owed a lot of
27:54
Speaker 3: money to, someone possibly as much as five thousand. Dollars
27:59
Speaker 3: those weren't his only, Debts sheila Said stacy told her
28:03
Speaker 3: That kevin owed nine to ten thousand dollars to some
28:06
Speaker 3: other people and that, quote if he didn't get the
28:08
Speaker 3: money to this guy, soon he was going to be
28:10
Speaker 3: killed end. Quote she Called kevin, paranoid but LIKE i often,
28:16
Speaker 3: say paranoid people aren't always. Wrong to get the money
28:21
Speaker 3: to pay his, Dealers kevin would write a check to kk's,
28:24
Speaker 3: Corner stacey would cash, it And kevin would give the
28:27
Speaker 3: drug dealers. Cash stacy believed that someone was following her
28:32
Speaker 3: in the last weeks of her.
28:33
Speaker 1: Life according To, sheila the people she.
28:35
Speaker 3: Was meeting, with a man Named brian and another man
28:39
Speaker 3: Named Officer, sweeney were talking to her about her suspicions
28:42
Speaker 3: About kevin's. Death sheila, said, Quote stacey was seeing a
28:47
Speaker 3: man Named brian because she said she had some evidence
28:49
Speaker 3: to pinpoint that it Wasn't kevin's. Handwriting she was going
28:53
Speaker 3: to get the letter Through, brian and then she met
28:55
Speaker 3: a guy Named Officer sweeney at The kettle one. Night
28:58
Speaker 3: she said they were going to help her prove That
29:01
Speaker 3: kevin didn't commit.
29:02
Speaker 1: Suicide end.
29:03
Speaker 3: Quote sheila said she was With stacy one night When
29:06
Speaker 3: stacy met With Officer sweeney at The kettle restaurant Where
29:09
Speaker 3: jerome was straps and other officers work second. Jobs she
29:13
Speaker 3: Said stacy went to the back of The kettle by
29:15
Speaker 3: the poker machines and talked To Officer. Sweeney the police
29:19
Speaker 3: said they couldn't Find Officer, sweeney BUT i did find
29:23
Speaker 3: information about An Officer sweeney who was working for The
29:26
Speaker 3: Lake Charles Police department at the. Time i'm trying to
29:29
Speaker 3: contact him to see if he is the same officer
29:32
Speaker 3: Who sheila saw meeting With. Stacy sheila said That stacy
29:36
Speaker 3: told Her Miles addison was dealing marijuana out of the
29:39
Speaker 3: store and That stacey bought weed from. Him she said
29:42
Speaker 3: she personally Witness stacy filling out a, check Signing kevin's
29:46
Speaker 3: name to it and collecting the money from Kk's sheila
29:50
Speaker 3: also Said stacy talked to her about people with drug
29:53
Speaker 3: code Names, Ice, robo and Kool, aid but she said
29:57
Speaker 3: she wasn't sure who any of these people. Were we've
30:01
Speaker 3: had several people revealed to us who they believed to
30:03
Speaker 3: be the identity Of. Ice were working to verify, it
30:07
Speaker 3: But i'm not gonna. Lie it's hard to verify anything
30:12
Speaker 3: because a lot of people who were potential witnesses have
30:15
Speaker 3: died or left the, saint and the ones who were
30:17
Speaker 3: left behind are. Scared Tracy, reeves one Of Stacy reeves's twin,
30:23
Speaker 3: daughters died in twenty twenty. One Chad, reeves the sole
30:28
Speaker 3: witness To Kevin abel's, death has also passed. Away according
30:32
Speaker 3: to The Lake Charles, Police chad was living with his,
30:35
Speaker 3: aunt sixty eight year Old Mary Jane. CASEY a family
30:38
Speaker 3: member got concerned On july, seventeenth twenty, nineteen when they
30:42
Speaker 3: couldn't reach Either chad Or Mary, jane so they called
30:45
Speaker 3: for a welfare check at their. Home when officers arrived
30:49
Speaker 3: at the, scene they found the bodies Of Mary jane And. Chad,
30:54
Speaker 3: later a spokesperson for The Late Charles Police department said
30:58
Speaker 3: they believe the night before the welfare, Check chad shot
31:01
Speaker 3: his aunt with a shotgun and then turned the gun on.
31:04
Speaker 3: Himself the killings were ruled a murder, suicide and the
31:08
Speaker 3: city attorney.
31:09
Speaker 1: Told a local news station the case had been.
31:11
Speaker 3: Closed as we said last, Week Thomas cisco was sentenced
31:16
Speaker 3: to ninety years in. Prison his parole was rescinded in
31:19
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, three and he is still incarcerated In, Angola.
31:22
Speaker 3: Louisiana according to the latest INFORMATION i can, find he's
31:26
Speaker 3: next eligible for parole this. Year in twenty twenty, FIVE
31:30
Speaker 3: i Wrote Thomas cisco a letter AND i have been
31:33
Speaker 3: in contact with his, sister so IF i am able
31:36
Speaker 3: to talk to, HIM i will keep you all. Updated
31:40
Speaker 3: The Violent Crimes Task force Of Calkashi perish was disbanded
31:44
Speaker 3: three years after The Kk's corner murders in two. Thousand
31:47
Speaker 3: that was the same year That Deputy, deluge who headed
31:50
Speaker 3: up the, investigation moved. On in two, thousand he became
31:54
Speaker 3: the chief of police In, Jennings, louisiana a town about
31:57
Speaker 3: thirty seven miles east down the It. In while working In,
32:01
Speaker 3: Jennings Deputy deluge faced a sexual harassment. Scandal according to
32:06
Speaker 3: the Book murder in The, bayou he was accused of
32:09
Speaker 3: forcing a female employee to make a video of herself
32:12
Speaker 3: getting her nipple, piers and then of showing that video
32:15
Speaker 3: to work. Colleagues in two thousand and, Three Deputy deluche
32:19
Speaker 3: resigned from The Jennings Police. Department he later reportedly worked
32:24
Speaker 3: for another police. Department Sheriff Wayne mcalvin is now in
32:28
Speaker 3: his mid. Eighties we have been told he is not
32:31
Speaker 3: in good. Health his, Son Richard, mcalvin is a chiropractor In.
32:35
Speaker 3: Louisiana according to the latest online RECORDS i can, find
32:39
Speaker 3: it seems as Though Miles addison has moved away from
32:42
Speaker 3: The Lake charles. Area he had a criminal, record including
32:47
Speaker 3: some drug, charges but was pardoned by the governor in twenty.
32:51
Speaker 3: Sixteen David, freeman the drug dealer Who kevin able owed money,
32:56
Speaker 3: to was arrested in connection With kevin's, death but later.
33:01
Speaker 3: Released he appears to be currently incarcerated In. Louisiana Laine,
33:06
Speaker 3: Lebuff marty's, brother continues to fight for. Answers he posts
33:10
Speaker 3: regularly on The facebook page Remembering Kk's.
33:13
Speaker 1: Corner twenty five years, later the former.
33:16
Speaker 3: Owner Of, Kk's Kenny, klin told us that for, him
33:20
Speaker 3: the murders changed, everything and it seems like for a
33:24
Speaker 3: lot of people in this, case the events of their
33:27
Speaker 3: entire lives can be divided into two, parts before the
33:31
Speaker 3: murders At Kk's corner and everything after a few weeks
33:38
Speaker 3: after the, Murders Kenny klin sold the. Store he told
33:42
Speaker 3: us he started a long care, business and he said
33:45
Speaker 3: he's never looked.
33:45
Speaker 5: Back when you're in the middle of, it LIKE i,
33:48
Speaker 5: am you hear so much you start, Thinking, okay is
33:51
Speaker 5: this tied? Together that tied? Together and this is just
33:54
Speaker 5: very personal for me BECAUSE i like to watch this
33:57
Speaker 5: crime stuff ON. TV i kind of believe in conspiracy,
34:00
Speaker 5: theories you know that kind of. Crap certainly doesn't surprise
34:03
Speaker 5: me if it's something like. That but there, AGAIN i
34:05
Speaker 5: can't prove. IT i can't prove, It and AGAIN i
34:08
Speaker 5: don't want to jump out there and accuse someone BECAUSE i,
34:11
Speaker 5: mean you, KNOW i used to have to come home
34:12
Speaker 5: and my wife KNOW i heard somebody in the grocery
34:14
Speaker 5: store saying that you, know you knew they were selling
34:16
Speaker 5: drugs and you were getting a cut of it and
34:17
Speaker 5: you know all that kind of, crap And i'm, like,
34:18
Speaker 5: well you know, what sweet. Are we got out of
34:20
Speaker 5: the store BECAUSE i just couldn't stand to go back in,
34:22
Speaker 5: there AND i opened up lawn service and started cutting
34:24
Speaker 5: grass in a hundred degree. HEAT i, REALLY i just
34:27
Speaker 5: want to tell, you from the bottom of my, HEART
34:28
Speaker 5: i appreciate what y'all were. Doing there's two THINGS i
34:31
Speaker 5: want to know BEFORE i. Die number one is exactly
34:34
Speaker 5: what happened To Kk's. Corner number two is who really
34:36
Speaker 5: Killed JOHN. F. Kennedy so if y'all configure that that
34:39
Speaker 5: first one, Out i'd be very very appreciative For i'd
34:41
Speaker 5: go to my. Grave i'm sixty three years. OLD i
34:42
Speaker 5: sure like to know BEFORE i.
34:43
Speaker 3: Deserve law enforcements say they are still actively investigating The
34:48
Speaker 3: Kk's corner murders because the second killer was never. Caught
34:53
Speaker 3: police have asked anyone who has information about the killings
34:57
Speaker 3: to contact The Calcashue Parish sheriff's office at three three
35:00
Speaker 3: seven four nine one three six, five or they can
35:04
Speaker 3: call Crime stoppers anonymously at three three seven four three
35:08
Speaker 3: nine two two two. Two I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is
35:12
Speaker 3: Helen Gone Murder. Line Helen Gone Murder line is a
35:16
Speaker 3: production Of school Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written
35:19
Speaker 3: and narrated by Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby.
35:23
Speaker 1: Watts special thanks To Amy.
35:25
Speaker 3: Tubbs for her research assistants And James wheaton for legal.
35:28
Speaker 3: Review noah camer mixed and scored this. Episode our theme
35:33
Speaker 3: song is By Ben. Salep executive producers Are Virginia, Prescott Brandon,
35:37
Speaker 3: barr and. L. C. Crowley listen To Helen gone ad
35:40
Speaker 3: free by subscribing to The iHeart True Crime plus channel
35:44
Speaker 3: On Apple. Podcasts if you were interested in seeing documents
35:47
Speaker 3: and materials from the, case you can follow the show
35:50
Speaker 3: On instagram At hell and. Gonepod if you have a
35:54
Speaker 3: case you'd like me and my team to look, into
35:56
Speaker 3: you can reach out to us at Our hell And
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Speaker 3: Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four four
36:01
Speaker 3: six one four five at six seven eight seven four
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36:07
Speaker 1: Five school Of humans