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Terminator 2: Judgement Night · Citizen Frame

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I'm a cybernetic organism, living this year over a metal endoskeleton.
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Music.
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Three billion human lives ended on August 29th, 1997.
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The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day.
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They lived only to face a new nightmare The war against the machines.
0:34
I'll be back You alright there?
0:38
Kind of like Chewbacca I tried to do my Arnie but I couldn't stop laughing That's
0:43
pretty good You sounded like Arnie doing a Chewbacca impression That's what I was doing Right?
0:49
Yeah thanks man You asked exactly what I was doing There you go,
0:52
nailed it all right hey
0:59
guys welcome back to citizen frame and welcome
1:02
back to the continuation of the terminated retrospective joining me today is
1:07
the usual host trevor hello there i said i'd be back and i'm back that's unfortunate
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but we have no choice you see how professional i was oh yeah yeah i think i'm
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gonna be doing that for now on that's my new thing yeah Yeah,
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along with the Chewbacca and Arnie impressions.
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Yeah, we're here to talk Terminator 2 just today.
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The upscale version, sequel to Terminator.
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Kind of like the similarities between Alien and Aliens. Totally,
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it's the big budget popcorn blockbuster version of Terminator. Yes, exactly.
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I haven't visited in a while until I did this podcast.
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Podcast so it'd be interesting after
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revisiting it how i feel about it now and reading up on it a
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little bit refreshing myself with the backstories
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of the terminator and yeah so we'll
2:02
see what happens i take it you saw the director's cut yes i did on one the one
2:06
with the additional scenes such as the one car race yes yes i'd seen it before
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on youtube the scene itself but the version The version I watched for the podcast
2:15
was the 4K fully restored or whatever it is. Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty much the only version they put out now. Yes.
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Kind of like the director's cut of Aliens. It's the only one they really put
2:25
out now. Okay. So before we start, you know, I always like to do pleasant surprise.
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That's my new thing now. We're going to do pleasant surprise.
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Pleasant surprise of the week.
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Pleasant surprise of the week. We're going to do this now. If Trevor,
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you find something, I don't know, it's going to be something terrible probably.
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But if you like something, you can certainly imagine it.
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There are films that we might not get to in the near future,
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but there's definitely something that I think people should check out.
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So, you know, it just came out on Video Demand and it's a creature feature and
2:57
I like my creature feature directed by, sorry,
3:00
the name has escaped me, but it came out and I decided to watch it and I really
3:06
rather fucking enjoyed it.
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And it was, it's called Sting. Right.
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And it is about an apartment complex where a spider from space crashes into
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this little, into this apartment complex and this girl collects bugs.
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And she finds it and starts feeding it and it gets bigger and bigger and well,
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I think we know where we're going with that. That's the end of it?
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It's got, it's got some really good gore. It's got some really good gore.
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It's got some humor to it, but it actually has, it mixes humor with dark,
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with dark tone quite well.
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And so check it out. It's called Sting. It is an adult version of arachnophobia.
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Is it's that's how i've got this is
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dull version of arachnophobia besides there's only
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one spider it's only about one spider right but that's all you need from mars
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and david boy yes we don't they don't tell
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you where it's from i won't give anything else away but you should check
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it out the acting is quite good and and yeah you
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know it reminded me of evil dead right right sounds
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good because it all took place in an apartment complex and you
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kind of get to know all the characters in the apartment and complex and
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that's kind of what this is kind of does and it takes a little while
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to plant the seed but it it closes well and
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it's a good solid recommendation check out sting over the last
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week i watched that netflix series baby reindeer it's
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the british drama yeah it's i mean
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it's it's very well written quite harrowing and sort of depressing
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based on apparent real life events and people well it is and yeah i mean i thought
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it was pretty pretty well done and certainly very well acted a lot of people
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are raving about it calling it you know the greatest thing ever and the most
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groundbreaking thing ever it's not but it's still very good in and of itself.
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Yeah, I watched that. It's an easy watch. Yes. Short episodes,
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about eight of them or so.
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Yeah, kudos to him coming out, and the actor in it, it is about him. Yes.
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So he lets his, he doesn't let his guard, you know, he lets his guard down,
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and let's everyone see what happened to him. Yes, and also.
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It's not, even the stalking thing is one aspect of what this man goes through. Yes. So. Yes.
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It's a pretty good journey. Not a pretty good journey, but it's an interesting
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journey that he takes us on.
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I would say as well that I did like how he, you know, he's pretty honest and
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open about his own flaws as well as he's not like painting himself in a perfect light, you know?
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So he sort of holds on himself to the account, you know, in many respects. Well, check it out.
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There you go. Look at that. TV and movies. I mean, this is just perfect for people, you know?
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They don't have to go to anywhere else, you know? Just come to us,
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you know? Yeah. Fuck it. Fuck it.
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So there you go. Sting and Baby Reindeer. yes yes sadly it's not about um rudolph's
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first christmas but there you go oh my god that was terrible that was terrible
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you're even getting comedy here as well you know all for free.
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Let's talk terminator to judgment day cameron is back his whole team is back
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which that's cameron he's very loyal to his team he brings back pretty much everybody including
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Brad Fidel for the music, which is nice.
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He's got Adam Greenberg back as the DP. Stan Winston is back.
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So it's nice to have the guys who helped make the first one possible back.
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You've got a cast of pretty cool people. You got Linda Hamilton is back as Sarah.
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Edward Furlong is, sad story about our boy Edward here.
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He was quite good in this one. And he, you know what, for a young kid at the
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time, and he put out some fun stuff.
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The Pet Sematary sequel was kind of fun. Yeah, we did that. And then he did
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Brain Scan, which no one's seen, but I really enjoy it.
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He did a few other pieces over the years.
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Yeah, unfortunately, drugs, you know, young celebrity stardom.
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Yeah, it's just kind of overtook him a bit, and he's made a resurgence.
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He's doing these Terminator comic cons and stuff and whatnot,
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so good on him. I hope he stays grounded. Watch him well.
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Yeah, gets his feet back, because he's quite good in this. I got to give him that.
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We have our boy back, Michael Bean as Reese.
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Small cameo absolutely pointless cameo to
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be honest with you joe martin is miles dyson
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yes i like joe martin he's really actually
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he's probably i'd say one of the best
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actors in this in this film they're all good but he's really i think he's he's
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the most believable here i he's the best actor in the entire thing yes i've
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seen him in other bits and pieces over the years he's been in episodes of the
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x-files and stuff with robert patrick actually uh oh there you go there Look
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at Reunion. Yeah, boy, well, it was. Yeah.
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So you've got, now Denzel Washington had the part originally for Joe.
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Is that right? Right. For Miles Dyson.
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But he decided all he was was crying and sweating. And so he decided he didn't
8:09
want the part. But you don't cry and sweat very well.
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I know. And we got our boy Earl Bowman back, Dr.
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Silberman. Dr. Arsene. We've got, it's nice to see Jeanette Goldstein and Alexander
8:22
Berkley who play the Voights. Yes.
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And that's, if you recognize Jeanette Goldstein, that's our girl Vasquez from Aliens.
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We got the Tim who plays the kid. I thought that was the kid from Big.
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His little buddy? John Connor's mate? Yeah. With the mullet? With the kid's mullet?
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Yeah, I thought that was the kid from Big, but it's not. I kind of remember
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Big. It's been that long since I've seen it.
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You've got Robert Patrick, which originally was Billy Idol.
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Yes, I think I've read that somewhere before. That would have been interesting.
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Billy Idol, he was signed on, but he got in a motorcycle accident and broke his leg or something.
9:00
Right. right but that's okay you know who was also meant to
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come back in a cameo as well apparently from
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what i've read lance henriksen who it was going to be revealed actually survived
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because you don't actually see him die in the original terminator and it was
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going to bring him back in a wheelchair or something you know having him survived
9:19
the shootout the police station massacre from the original that would have been
9:23
cool i mean it's always good to see lance henriksen no that would
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have been stupid well i liked it no nobody's gonna survive the terminator attack
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that would have been but you don't actually see him die off you know no screen dumb.
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Yeah they probably would have done that for fans you know fanfare just to get
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oh it's bishop he's back yeah yep wrong movie but we'll we'll take him anyways.
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Now, the initial story here, and I'm not pleased that they didn't go this route
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because the problem with Terminator 2, and there's not a lot,
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there's quite a few of them actually. I have a few issues with it.
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But they are, it's still, it's great. Guys, it's a wonderful film.
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It's a great film. It deserves all the press and the critics and love and the money it made.
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It deserves it, 100%. But the original concept would have been so much better.
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And the problem I have with why he didn't go this route is because Cameron says
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the audience wouldn't get it. They'd be confused.
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And I said, I'm thinking to myself, well, Cameron, you're a pretty smart guy.
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Aliens and True Lies and The Abyss are pretty smart films. You got to trust your audience.
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So especially if they're watching a Terminator film, they're going to,
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it's not, anyways, let me tell you what it is.
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Reese was supposed to come back. Yeah. All right.
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Reese was supposed to come back and he is the T-1000. Right.
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They've taken his looks and put him in the, he's the baddie and the Terminator
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is the goodie. That would have worked so much better.
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And the problem I have with them not going this direction is because the film,
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what doesn't work for the film is it's got a lot and too much camp.
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Yep. And that's between John Connor and The Terminator It really does hurt the
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film When I saw it originally I was like oh this is fun.
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The problem is he went this route, the bonding relationship,
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his new father figure, which would be this, you know, the T-800.
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And I thought it would be such more effective if Reese came back and really
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fucked things out because it would have, there's pretty much his father coming to kill him.
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And that really would have made things darker. And I think Cameron didn't want to do it.
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He says it's because it's going to confuse the audience. I don't think that's
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what, I think he did it because he wanted to go more of a PG-13 route.
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And because if you went the other way, you'd be going what worked for the original
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Terminator, which was horror. He wanted to go mainstream and he did.
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And the stuff with the- He sold out. I think he sold out.
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And the stuff with the no problemo and, you know, all the hasta la vista,
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baby, and stand on one leg and stuff.
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You know after watching the original and then
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watching this sort of back to back pretty much does jar
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and it irritates me it irritated me at the time and
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it still does probably even more so now that they
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went kiddie friendly with arnie i i think it might have been arnie as well because
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it wanted they wanted arnie wanted to spread his wings a bit a bit more as an
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actor who knows but it does joy for me yeah i can see that uh already having
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a bigger influence in this because there's There's no way they could do this film without him.
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So I think, and he was above and beyond an A-lister at this point.
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Because Predator and Total Recall just came out. So, and Running Man.
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So this guy was nobody, he could do what he wanted. So I think he definitely had say.
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Like, I can guarantee you another reason it didn't go that route was because,
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or maybe because, or whatever.
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I've already wanted to play the good guy no matter what. Yes.
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He wasn't going to go back to playing the bad guy at this point.
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But either way i would like to have seen that unfortunately we got this route
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it's not a train wreck or anything don't be ridiculous to say this movie's a
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train wreck because it's not,
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but people comparing it is better than terminator same
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concept of aliens is better than alien alien aliens i can give you that argument
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i can get why people but i do not understand why true fans of the terminator
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would think terminator 2 is better terminator is a far superior film with not
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even a quarter of the budget. 100% agree.
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And yeah, I mean, and I was just thinking, didn't Arnie around this time,
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was it Arnie that said that because he had children, young children,
14:01
he didn't want to play bad guys anymore?
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Yeah, I mean, the same thing happened with Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy didn't
14:07
want to be swearing anymore and be that guy from the 80s. So he did the nutty
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professor. He wanted to tone it down.
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And I can respect that. Yes, I understand that.
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But these actors need to understand that,
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you're disrespecting the character you brought to life by doing
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a dumbed down version of what worked
14:25
yeah again that can be the director as well of
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course but i don't know there's a couple of
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other things niggle may i would say as well the timelines this is where
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the beginning of the timelines being messed up what age is
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john connor here and when is this set this is supposed to be 1994 but
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yet it clearly says on the police scanner that he was born in keeping
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with the original in 1985 that means
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he's nine years old technically in this film and he's clearly
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about at very least 11 but more like 12 13 and he's driving a motorcycle or
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something so yeah he's got to be a certain age he's definitely teenage well
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to be fair i mean regarding the motorcycle thing i mean he's a bit of a turtle
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way anyway so uh but yeah i mean the timeline he's not nine years old.
15:07
It was nice seeing michael bean back but i
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think this was just for fanfare this whole dream sequence is fucking stupid
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i would i would have gotten rid of it
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completely if you're going to bring him back i
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would have brought him back in a flashback and fix
15:22
maybe something he says in the hotel room before they had yum yum
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time it feels like something like a like a daytime tv
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soap opera like it's been taken straight out of this scene the dream sequence
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yeah you know where it's it's a total melodramatic and and cheesy and silly
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and pointless yeah it's in there's a reason why it wasn't in the original cut
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and now they just brought it back, but they should have kept it out.
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It's here's a, here's another problem. And guys, I will get to a lot of the
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good stuff and, but our fair points are like this movie is two hours and 37
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minutes and it fucking, it wouldn't, there's this, there's a lull in this film.
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We don't even see the T-1000. Yes. It's all about Arnie and the,
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and the, and, and Furlong.
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And it's like a 45 minutes. At the Mexican border? Just.
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Scenes? yeah i know and it's all this bonding and then they're sort of arming
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up and then sort of connor decides to go to the dyson's house you know to kill
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him yeah it does i understand i get that they have to you know let the audience
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catch their breath a bit but it goes on for too long.
16:29
Yeah, it certainly does. I mean, you introduce us these great characters like the T-1000. Yes.
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And played wonderfully by Robert Patrick. And Robert Patrick,
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months of training, running. Yeah.
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And he nailed, he really did nail the part very well.
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And for his second big outing, his first film was Die Hard 2.
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Yeah. As one of the terrorists.
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And so he does steal the show. If you steal a show from Arnold Schwarzenegger
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at this time of Arnie's career, you've done something fucking right.
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So slick. I love the way it moves, you know, and you can totally believe it. I love. Yeah.
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Yeah, no, you're right. I like, what I liked about him is that when you're getting,
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you're getting the story of how Arnie is trying to get to John. Yes.
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And then you've got, cutting to the T-1000, how he's trying to get to John.
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You know, you've got those little side stories.
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And what's great about it is here's Arnie goes into the bar.
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He's a little rough housing because at this time he doesn't know not to hurt
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anybody because he hasn't got the orders. That was stupid as well. From John. Yeah.
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That's a stupid scene too. But anyways, the great thing is when you first meet
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Robert Patrick, he's so polite and nice and well-mannered.
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He's like, ma'am, is John around? Can I speak with your son, please?
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Blah, blah. He's just very, he's got the etiquette of a cop done so well.
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And once he gets into the mall and he sees John Connor for the first time in his sight,
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that little nice guy mentality turns and he becomes the killing machine that he is.
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It's a great transition between good cop, bad cop.
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And of course, the big thing is, of course, Robert Patrick can act.
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And he acts it so very well. And no disrespect to Arnie, but Arnie's more of
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a movie star as opposed to a serious actor. Robert Patrick is a serious actor.
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Well, I'm not going to go that far. Arnie's a better actor to me.
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I like Robert Patrick. Yes. Robert Patrick has had a great career.
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It's always nice seeing him in films.
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But they always say the supporting actors, the Gary Oldmans,
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the James Woods. Conor McGregor's.
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Oh, yeah, Conor McGregor's fucked up. The good ones always steal the show from the A-listers. Yes.
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And Robert Patrick does, hands down. I wouldn't call him, you know,
19:03
I think he's done a lot of shit.
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A lot of shit, actually. He's a better actor than anybody, I think.
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I say even. I can't say that. I won't say that. You and I have had this argument
19:15
before. We don't have to go back again. Yeah, that's okay.
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We've had this before, and I think Arnold can act.
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And he gets, sadly, a lot of people aren't seeing the films that people should be seeing.
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He's got better over the years, for sure. I remember, I think,
19:30
correct me if I'm wrong here, you might know this here, but I remember in the
19:32
mid-90s, there was an X-Files-esque made-for-TV film that was actually pretty
19:37
good called Fire in the Sky, based on an apparent true story. That was in the theater.
19:42
Was it all over here? I think we just got it on TV, but they can get it in theaters,
19:44
or it was on video, straight to video or something. But is Robert Patrick in that?
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Yes. I think he is, yeah. He is the buddy. it's based
19:52
on a true story about a group of friends who go out and one of the friends gets
19:56
abducted and he comes back and he's been traumatized and the friends are accused
20:00
of killing him yes I remember enjoying that but I was just I was just not sure
20:04
it's been a lot of years since I've seen it I'm just not sure if Robert Patrick
20:07
was in it or not but yes yeah he was in it was his second outing I think right after this.
20:13
But yeah, so, and, and, you know, they work well together and the stunt performing is really cool.
20:19
Like when they first fight, I love the scene in the, uh, the, the mall. Yes.
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Where you've got skinny little Robert Patrick beating the shit out of Arnold
20:29
Schwarzenegger, just throwing him everywhere. Through walls and all sorts.
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Yeah. Through the, uh, through the store, storefront.
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It's, it's real, it's really, really nice.
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And, and that's what I wanted. see the
20:43
the thing is the terminator it's not
20:45
stop chasing and what they do is they pepper in
20:48
short little dialogue and you know of
20:51
character development which you have to do in a good film but this one takes
20:56
too many breaks yes there's too much character it's almost like the the one
21:00
we're bored with the character development and then the band the sort of story
21:03
and the trauma of sarah and stuff i also thought there was too many scenes of
21:07
sarah in the hospital before she
21:09
actually escapes one or two would have done that rightly you know yeah i think yeah like,
21:16
like you have the guy look at her face yeah that's the suggestion and
21:20
again that well basically he's been raping her
21:22
so it is but it's again obviously
21:25
it's toned down because this was they were going for the pg-13 certificate
21:28
or 15 it was in the uk but it's like sort of thrown in and it doesn't really
21:33
i suppose in a way that part whenever she does beat the absolute shit out of
21:38
them you're sort of it has a greater power because you're sort of cheering her
21:41
on even more and he deserves it and more but yeah yeah there is
21:46
there's too much stuff going on here I think generally yeah they could have
21:50
cut quite a bit from this film quite a bit actually and.
21:55
And the funny thing is, the stuff they rush, they shouldn't be rushing.
21:59
Like the conversation they have with Miles Tyson before he gives in and goes to the Cyber...
22:07
Cyberdyne. Whatever it's called. Cyberdyne. I'd rather see more of that dialogue
22:11
than fucking 30 minutes of him bonding with fucking John Connor.
22:15
Because Miles Tyson, not just because of Joe Morton's acting,
22:18
but he's actually a really interesting character.
22:21
You know? So he is, and you want to hear more about him.
22:23
You do one thing i do not want to hear more
22:26
about as a whiny teen bonding with fucking arnie
22:29
well let's let's
22:32
jump into the bonding part some of work some of it
22:35
doesn't i do there's nice little it's you mentioned in the term that the terminator
22:39
podcast we did where he calls and he calls his i gotta call my foster parents
22:47
they're dicks but you know they've been pretty good to me so So he calls him and he's like,
22:52
she's being really nice. She's never nice.
22:55
And he asked for the, what's your dog's name? Whatever it was.
22:58
And he says, Hey, is Wolfie okay?
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And she, Oh, Wolfie's fine. He hangs up the phone. Your foster parents are dead.
23:06
That is a throwback to when you said with Kyle Reese said it to Sarah Connor
23:11
in the hotel, your mother is dead.
23:12
It's just so matter of fact that that makes it more chilling, all the more chilling.
23:17
You know what? You know what really bugged me as well? and it's connected to
23:20
the Bond and the fact that the Terminator, who's meant to terminate people,
23:23
just injures them because John Connor says, so he's called the Terminator for
23:28
a reason he's like the not Terminator after he just like shoots him in the leg
23:33
you know, I get why it's done and all that there but it didn't work for me,
23:38
Yeah, I'm not a fan of that whole thing.
23:41
I think it would have been better where Sarah sees what this man can do or this machine can do,
23:50
and she tries to avoid the bond between them two because he's killing everything
23:57
in front of him. You needed some. That conflict, though.
24:00
Yeah, you needed a conflict there because it just doesn't work.
24:06
He's a nice guy. Because the fuck is this? The potential conflict with Sura
24:10
and the Terminator is resolved in about two seconds.
24:13
You know, it's like, yeah, I didn't get that either because there's a great
24:17
shot too where she sees him coming for the first time in the hospital and she's
24:23
fucking sells it. She's terrified.
24:25
And then the T-1000 shows up. He says, oh, okay, he's the bad guy.
24:29
And it's like, wow, that was quick. And then Arnie does the tail.
24:34
You needed more, almost a distance between the T-800 and these two.
24:41
And that's done by Sarah.
24:43
She's in between them two. And maybe have a little, where John doesn't like
24:47
Sarah anymore because he can't bond with the T-800.
24:51
You needed something there. This is too, it almost sounds horrible to say this.
24:57
And guys, I do like the film.
24:59
I mean, we're going to stop. We're going to get some of the positive coming.
25:03
I promise. I promise. It don't end us yet. But there's moments where I was like, wait a minute.
25:14
Am I watching a Terminator film or kindergarten?
25:17
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And that does bug me a little.
25:21
Well, actually, I've got quite a big bit with this film.
25:24
It's toned down Terminator. You know, there's a film called Terminator 2 Judgment Day.
25:29
I want to see the apocalypse and arnie massacring people you know what i mean i don't want to see,
25:36
kindergarten cop yeah i mean if i'm getting this shit when i see these two on
25:41
screen i want to see i want to see more of the t1000 say that's a nice boy i
25:46
want that guy yeah yeah you know,
25:50
it's just i'm so well they went there not right and yes there is a lot of positives
25:54
that this film is widely loved and much respected and you know very it's a bit
25:59
of a critical darling but.
26:01
Give me the original Annie Day of the Week. But when we get,
26:05
when I do like the fact when things start changing a bit after we get that family dynamic shit. Yeah.
26:13
When Sarah says, fuck this, she's going to go kill him.
26:17
This is where I wanted to see, this is where we start taking where Sarah's like,
26:21
this man needs to be killed.
26:22
Yes. He's about to kill, you know, what is it, 8 billion they say or something people.
26:27
6 billion I think. Whatever it was. Yeah. and so she
26:30
goes to kill him and when she goes
26:33
into his house and she sees his kid and his wife and
26:36
he's god joe martin's very good he acts like
26:39
a guy who actually got shot not like these films where
26:42
they're like oh i took a gunshot for the first time yeah he's actually you know
26:46
he's he's clearly a soldier yes yeah exactly and and there's and there's linda
26:53
hamilton selling it as well because she wants to kill this man with every fiber
26:59
in her being, but she can't do it.
27:02
I mean, she herself has become a killing machine because of, well, not really.
27:07
I guess you can't say that because she's more been hiding, but she's prepared for this kind of day.
27:11
You've seen her working out and she's trying to get out of the psycho ward.
27:17
And when she does and she finally has a chance to take that shot,
27:21
she knows she doesn't have what it takes.
27:23
She can't do it. Because she's a Mozart. are great personally yeah yeah
27:26
it's a great scene and i wanted more
27:29
that grit yes that's what i want from a terminator
27:32
film is that grit no i i can't argue
27:35
with that and you know especially with the way it's sold so very well by joe
27:39
morton and linda hamilton and yes we should have had a lot more of this you
27:44
know that whole dilemma of you know you know it's like you know you know having
27:48
to kill this family man this generally nice guy who just accidentally happens to create the end of the
27:53
world yeah it should have been all it should have been more of the backbone of the story overall,
27:59
Exactly. And even have Miles Dyson introduced earlier on if you wanted to.
28:04
That would have been all right. So, I mean, just, I don't know.
28:08
Something with more weight.
28:10
Yeah, exactly. Instead of Arnie standing on one leg. Not so we can, yeah. Yeah.
28:18
So the whole concept is Dyson is the chip in the arm from the last film. Yeah.
28:26
He's got it. And he was able to build this technology.
28:29
And this technology is so advanced, it's the whole thing, don't fuck with mother
28:35
nature, yada, yada, yada.
28:36
It ends up becoming so powerful, it takes over causing the war.
28:41
Kind of similar to war games. Well, yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
28:45
It's an old story. It's about how, yeah, AI becomes, or Hal from 2001.
28:51
Don't play God. Who was actually, who actually was not, he was the good guy.
28:55
Oh, do I like Hal? You know? Yeah.
28:59
So, hello, Hal. Oh, wait. Hello, Dave. Why don't you take a stress pill and
29:04
think things over? That's going to be the most boring conversation.
29:05
What is it he says? He says, why don't you take a stress pill,
29:08
Dave, and think things over?
29:12
Yeah, you know, this is the part where it starts getting a little longer.
29:16
Now, when they get to Cyberline and the cops show up,
29:23
I don't know, you know, I think I I just felt it was too, it was too,
29:29
I just, fuck. I love the helicopter scene.
29:33
When he takes over the helicopter. This whole chase scene on the truck is awesome.
29:37
I just found the scene of the building again.
29:41
I wanted violence. Yeah, no way. I know I'm going to get yelled at and booed.
29:46
Not at all. There are cops and all.
29:47
But at the end of the day- Can I send Phil and Smith to be a flipping Terminator,
29:51
Phil? I want to see people get terminated.
29:54
He needs to do his job, quite frankly. And if they're in his way, he's got to kill.
30:01
And I would love to have seen that dynamic where John and Sarah are maybe starting
30:07
to, you know, Sarah's opening up the lines of communication with him more as
30:13
she begins to trust him and maybe have her intervene going,
30:15
okay we can't have you do this now and maybe, you know, some kind of conflict
30:20
where they need to stop him from killing not just,
30:23
oh stop killing okay, I'm good you needed him to have trouble trying to shut
30:29
that command down that would have been better the whole thing with Arnie being
30:33
a good guy has always been my issue,
30:35
you said, oh you're going to get hate about this i'll tell you a true story i
30:38
the first time i saw this i was 14 in the cinema went with
30:41
my mates so it did and you know whenever later
30:44
following this scene with the cops you think that arnie has
30:47
been killed by the t-1000 and his eye his red eye goes out see in the cinema
30:53
at the time when i was sort of pissed that arnie was a good guy i went you and
30:59
cheered and everybody turned around and looked at me pissed off and thought
31:03
it in the cinema not just my mates like everyone in the cinema.
31:06
And then when Arnie came back to life again, everyone cheered again.
31:09
But like at me, you always have to say, I'll fucking slap it into you, you little dickhead.
31:15
Yeah, why would you not root for Arnie, man? Because I wanted him to be a terminator,
31:20
a badass, an evil terminator. Well, you can still bend that,
31:22
but are you still for Sireform when he sacrifices himself in the end? I was 14.
31:28
You know what? You're a hateful bastard. I don't think you ever liked Arnie.
31:32
I love Arnie, but I love him much more than the original.
31:36
No, you don't. You're a sick bastard.
31:39
Again, we get this really cool effect of explosion when they're kind of reflecting of what happened.
31:46
When Dyson, she tells the story of Dyson, and kids are playing in the LA background,
31:52
and she's having a nightmare or something, and she's grabbing the fence,
31:57
and then you see her skin burning as the bomb goes off.
32:00
Can I tell you something about that thing?
32:03
It's just- What was that? That's not Linda Hamilton in that scene.
32:07
That's probably her twin sister. It is, yes, 100%. Yeah.
32:11
Yeah, her twin sister plays her stunt double, I think, a couple times.
32:15
Yes, yeah, in that scene, apparently.
32:17
I know everything. I know everything. Are you like fucking Miles Dyson?
32:22
Are you the Terminator? Yeah.
32:25
I don't know which one. I don't know. Can I be the T-1000? Yeah, well, far enough.
32:30
Yeah. I don't want to be Dyson because he dies. But he dies like,
32:33
again, you know, Dyson's barely in it and he's got the best art.
32:38
Because he knows what he's done and he sacrifices himself because he kind of
32:43
got no choice by blowing everyone up. Including himself?
32:47
Including himself. And it's a great scene where he's trying to keep breathing.
32:50
It's kind of a tough watch. He's barely in it. And this is how good this actor is.
32:55
And he's, he, you know, I can only hold this for so long.
32:59
Yeah. And he tells them the run. Yeah. Cause I only can hold this for so long. And they're like, fuck.
33:05
But it's a good effective scene. There's so many really good effective scenes
33:09
in this one. I love the mall sequence is brilliant.
33:12
I love the, the, the foster parents, the truck sequence, the motorcycle chase is wonderful.
33:19
When he's flipping the shotgun, reloading with one hand, it's fucking awesome.
33:23
And, I mean, I love Linda Hamilton's rage. I love the T-1000.
33:29
Robert Patrick really fucking sells it. I love so much about this film,
33:34
but the key component, Arnie.
33:37
Is missing. And 40 minutes of this could have been cut or give us more of the
33:44
darker shit because this father, this fucking father-son thing is really fucking stupid.
33:50
I think, you know, it does make sense in a way because the character of John
33:54
Connor, you know, his father died before he was born and he was going between
33:58
different men, you know, basically.
34:00
So he even states it, you know, so he never really had a father figure or a
34:04
proper father figure in his life.
34:05
The problem is it just comes across as slapstick silliness.
34:10
What should be a serious character arc for Joe and Connor turns into stand on
34:16
one leg and hasta la vista baby and it's just it just takes all seriousness away from it.
34:24
I understand why you cried. I'm like, oh my God.
34:27
What about the thumbs up whenever he's getting into the fucking,
34:31
you know, like the lava basically, you know, at the end.
34:34
It's just the final thumbs up. I wanted to cry. Fuck.
34:39
No, but again, I really am enjoying the film. You know what?
34:44
It is a good film. I mean, this was groundbreaking as well in terms of special
34:47
effects and, you know, action sequences and stuff at the time.
34:50
So, you know, again, it It certainly should be remembered for that.
34:55
But this is the Terminator goes mainstream in more ways than one.
35:00
You see, the problem I have, there's little things that bother me.
35:03
This is on James Cameron.
35:05
James Cameron's a smart guy, clearly, and he's very circulated and he knows
35:09
his IT and he always has the right team with him.
35:12
But when I see them going into pretty much a military cyberdyne systems.
35:18
And he can't get the key, but fucking john
35:21
has an atm card that he can because
35:24
he's a hacker with yeah he's going to use that
35:27
to hack a very high secured
35:31
pretty much weapons facility or you
35:34
know come on no no there's a few details
35:37
like that even the the cliche of whenever the
35:41
the t-1000 is first chasing john in the
35:43
mall his motorbike doesn't start or it takes it a while
35:46
to start and that's just a bit bit of a sort of a cheap cliche you
35:49
know to ramp up the tension you
35:52
know usually it's a car in films but in this case it's
35:55
a motorbike yeah there's a few little one of the
35:58
biggest things it does bug me i have to admit because i'm a bit pedantic
36:01
with things i guess is the timeline you know at the age of john connor yeah
36:06
that one doesn't make any sense i had one question and what was it i forgot
36:09
it was something about kyle reese go ahead yep if kyle reese died in 1984. Yes.
36:20
Would John Connor ever have known him? It's a time loop. It's basically a time
36:25
loop. No, not time loop. No, wait.
36:28
Would the T-800 know him?
36:32
Somebody says something when they knew him. But will he be dead?
36:35
Will he be erased if he dies? No, no, no. It's a time loop.
36:39
So basically, he is then born in whatever, like, say, 2003 or whatever, you know?
36:45
And he then, during the apocalypse, you know, the end of days, all this here.
36:49
And then he grows up to be like a soldier fighting
36:53
for john connor but john connor knows that
36:56
he will be his father so john connor has no choice
36:59
but to send him back in the original john connor deliberately
37:02
chose kyle reese because he knew it had
37:05
to be him to go back to basically impregnate
37:08
his mother so it's a time loop because
37:12
of it because of his obsession with the photo no well
37:15
that is where no it was john given the photo so he was like john
37:18
was like setting him up with his mom you know it was that's
37:22
a time loop that's you know like a time travel
37:25
loop that's all right that's all right that's fine yeah
37:28
what really does work for this film is the action period when it when it is
37:33
there the great thing about cameron before he he became cgi man this is a beautiful
37:40
blend it it mainly it's still models still practical still a little matt that in there,
37:46
very little CGI besides with obviously the T-1000. Yeah.
37:50
And this whole chase scene with the fucking truck is just wonderful.
37:54
And it's, and I, at my favorite part, I love the liquid nitrogen scene.
38:00
It's so beautifully done and so well-crafted and so just well-directed. It's such a wonderful.
38:08
I love when his leg opens off. Whole sequence. Yeah.
38:11
And you can see the reaction of, of the
38:14
T-1000 thousand days he's freezing his jaw drops like what
38:16
the fuck i have a question so yeah i take it
38:19
this is the point where he starts to malfunction because after this
38:22
whenever he's what like walking across like sort of metal floors
38:25
and stuff he's becoming like the metal and there's be like
38:28
flashes of him changing through him so he's starting
38:31
to malfunction here as well yeah probably taking a lot of hits and that would
38:37
have been a nice little explanation too can is there only is Is there only so
38:41
many times he can be burned or he can be crushed or is there only so many times
38:46
that he can rejuvenate his liquid form? You know what I mean? Yes.
38:50
But I love this whole, I do like this ending sequence. I really do enjoy it.
38:55
Until we get to the sad face at the end. But I just thought the fight sequences
39:00
with him and Arnie are fun.
39:03
And when Arnie's getting beaten, I will say this, and as much as I didn't like
39:09
the banter between him and John, we knew he was the good guy.
39:13
And when he's bashing his head in with that fucking steel rod or whatever it is,
39:18
beam, a steel beam you see his face
39:20
getting pummeled i felt sorry for him
39:23
i was like fuck i don't want to watch this because so
39:26
even though i've been bitching about you know he's a nice guy
39:29
and all friendly i really he did his job arnie
39:32
he really did his job because at this end
39:35
let me let me finish at the end when he's getting bashed in you're like fuck
39:40
i don't want to watch this this is already so i kind of see where they're going
39:46
because you kind of turned me a little bit at the the end there well all i can
39:49
say to that karen is i now know why you cry yeah.
39:57
Yep but but the whole he's got
40:01
that fucking grenade gun whatever it is and he just pummels and he just explodes
40:06
i mean i like the fact when he falls into the uh it's a steel melted steel he
40:11
you can it's kind of like the thing i wish you can see all the things he's He's
40:15
morphed into. I was just about to say that. I really like that.
40:17
Yeah, where it's all the different faces. It's like, you know,
40:20
the foster parents and stuff, the foster mother and stuff.
40:23
Yeah, it becomes like the thing. I really like that touch as well.
40:27
And then he sacrifices himself. I have to find a little chip.
40:31
He doesn't actually say it, you know, in those words, but there is one more
40:34
chip he says, and it's him.
40:37
Too much? The emotion? Yeah. Well, in the end, he was terrible.
40:41
I don't know. There's John. There's John. he's a U.S.
40:45
Senator and Sarah is a grandma I was like oh fuck this everybody lives happily
40:51
ever after well you know I'll say it again I know why you cry,
40:57
well we'll find out in the third one I know that was a piece of shit the third
41:00
one I'm curious where it went I'm telling you right now,
41:03
as we talked about this film guys listen I'm going to say something right now
41:06
I had good fun with it I love this film it's so enjoyable it's a Schwarzenegger
41:11
classic but when you're You're talking about fucking Terminator.
41:17
You got to make fun of it because it doesn't have, it doesn't hold a candle.
41:22
It doesn't hold a candle to a source material. I agree completely.
41:27
And, but it's still fucking good blockbuster fun. Yeah, it's a popcorn movie.
41:33
But for anyone who thinks this is better than the original, come on, guys. Yeah.
41:37
Watch them back to back. Do me a favor, because we're coming to come up to a
41:42
film called Dark Fate that came out a couple years ago.
41:45
And I got to watch it again. And my whole, we'll talk about it,
41:48
I'll retrospective at the very end of all this. But I think Dark Fate's better than this film.
41:53
Because everything I wanted, I wanted this to be aliens.
41:58
Okay? And what I mean by that is that aliens mixed everything beautifully.
42:02
You had the humor you had the characters you
42:05
had a little bit of a downtime but you had the intensity you
42:08
had the horror you had the drum you had every fucking
42:11
genre in that film beautifully executed
42:15
but this one something went wrong there's a less is more would have been better
42:22
with this film it does appear to be the point where james cameron started to
42:27
lose the plot and sort of sell out he doesn't quite do it here but that's i
42:31
believe this was the beginning of him doing that.
42:34
I don't i i can hear why you would say that
42:37
but i'm going to disagree because of true lies because i literally love that
42:41
fucking film so i'd have to revisit it i think i think it was terminated titanic
42:46
that pretty much destroyed i mean well it destroyed my vision my my view of
42:51
who james cameron is they're like the title i don't think this was this i don't think this
42:55
was studio i'm going to tell you who who
42:58
who kind of like i said
43:01
i don't want to ruin it because it is it is a very good film but
43:04
if there's anyone to blame it's nothing nothing to
43:07
the studio this is cameron and swore snigger's
43:10
fault yeah it went to mainstream it's too mainstream
43:13
and that's what for me anyway i know a lot of people love it and i would say
43:18
a lot of people love the that it's that it's more mainstream and more sort of
43:22
you know for a popcorn blockbuster their audience then that's fair enough that's
43:26
up to them but for me yeah it is it does jar for me in those respects and always has done.
43:33
Well it's gonna be interesting because you told me that you'd like
43:36
you remember like in terms i like aspects of it
43:39
i wouldn't say i like all of it yeah uh i wish
43:42
i could record our conversations i really fucking
43:45
do because you said oh jesus god i've always had a song oh my god that's i'd
43:49
fucking love that film shit i would it is it's like fucking incredible i wish
43:54
i had a tape recorder i i i know that i i i do like aspects of it but again
44:00
it's been a long time I think shortly after it was released,
44:03
actually, since I've seen it. So my mind may have changed.
44:07
But you know what, folks? If you really want to find out, you'll have to tune into our next podcast.
44:12
That's right. The only good about Terminator 3 is the naked chick. Yeah.
44:17
Yeah. What's she, the Teen One Million or something? I don't even know.
44:21
Yeah. I don't even know. Yeah.
44:25
She's got my vote. Yeah. Well, we'll get to it. But I know that that guy,
44:29
Nick Stahl, plays John Connor. Yes.
44:32
And that's another thing i'm gonna look up clear the ends yeah oh jesus and
44:39
i don't get why they replace edward furlong i won't look up that because of
44:43
edward furlong had was good throughout let's just say a lot of problems at the
44:46
time ah that sucks they originally wanted edward but he
44:51
uh they didn't cast him because he was apparently get through a lot of issues at the time,
44:56
That's too bad. Because, you know, continuity is big. And it would be nice to
45:00
have, to keep them and give them part of this.
45:03
All right. So again, it's a, it's an excellent summer blockbuster, but come on. Yeah.
45:13
Go with me here. It's like you fans of, you hated the new Halloween movies, right?
45:18
But I think they're, they're so good, but you think Resurrection's better. It's like, come on.
45:25
Go with me here, people. All right. We'll be back with Terminator 3. We'll be back.
45:32
And we'll be back. We're going to pepper in a little horror film.
45:37
We like to do that during our retrospectives.
45:39
And so we're going to be talking Abigail next, and then we'll get Terminator
45:43
3 out right away after that.
45:46
And that's all I've got for you right now. We're going to go ahead and end this one.
45:50
And you can give us a shout at citizenframe underscore podcast
45:53
cast on instagram and of course facebook or you're
45:57
probably going to delete us anyway after us ripping on your
46:00
wonderful epic masterpiece i remember seeing
46:02
this as a kid in the theater i was a kid i was 20 and it
46:06
was like going that's a fucking masterpiece and i mean it i don't know i'm just
46:12
i'm a tough one it sucks because i don't want to i feel like i tore it to shreds
46:18
but i'm not i'm trying to shreds because of the source material not because
46:23
Because it's a bad movie, if that makes any sense. Flawed but entertaining.
46:26
There we go. Go, fan. Flawed but entertaining. Blah, blah, blah.
46:31
All right. We'll be back. We'll see.
46:36
We'll be back.
46:36
Music.