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46. The Power of Patience and Gratitude in Marriage - Betsey Dirkse Part 2 · A Heart That Beats for Home

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right friends, welcome back to another episode here on A Heart that Beats for Home.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I hope that you are here for part two of the episode with Betsy.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: If you have not listened to last week's, you need to go back.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: You need to start there.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: We are just talking here in November about gratitude and joy and goodness.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I knew when I sent this list of questions to Betsy that this was probably like an entire season's worth of stuff that we could talk about, but I'm so passionate and feel so strongly that Satan is trying to destroy families through marriage and he's trying to get in there and divide, and so, as we were getting through last week's interview, I knew that we were getting longer and I just don't want to do a disservice to the listeners.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I know that we have men that listen and I just I don't want to do a disservice to the listeners.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I know that we have men that listen and I just feel like we have some conversations to be had here.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: And so, betsy, I just appreciate you being here, taking all this time with us, and I would love for you just to take a second to just tell us a little bit about yours and John's story from early.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I know that you guys have a sweet story and then we're going to dive in just to some good marriage and empty nester thinking, to the future season of life, yeah.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll do a fast forward version of our relationship.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: John and I are 10 years apart and we met at.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I was in youth ministry and he was one of the interns we didn't date while I was in the youth ministry.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: So for all of you who rushed to that conclusion, perhaps Scandal yeah, no scandal.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: We did everything above board, all under great leaders who really just directed John in all of that.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, one of the funnest things about this is that John actually went to my parents and asked if he could end up dating me once I graduated, if they were okay with that, and if they weren't, then he would never ask me, and I love, of course, a man who went to my parents.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I also just cannot believe that my parents said at the time absolutely, she can make that decision herself.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: So you know, when she graduates, have at it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: So I laugh now because, of course, I had five kids that turned 18 and was like what was my dad thinking at the time?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: This is crazy, you're not growing up at 18.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: But here we are, 31 years later, proving to everybody that, honestly, god has just been so gracious.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: So we are 10 years, we're still 10 years apart.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: That's the funny joke we were 18 and 28 when we got married.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Now 50 and 60, an awesome another decade together.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, john's been in ministry the entire time.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I've been married to him.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Our whole life has been ministry, youth ministry, worship ministry and now senior pastoring at Redeemer Church in Rockford for 20 years.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: So we, yeah, just thankful for our marriage.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: We have been through lots of ups and downs, but there's just something awesome every year and you know that's this too, nikki, because I think it was 25.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: You guys just hit right You're 25.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: There is just something that is supernaturally just a treasure to log years and years and years together and have walked through difficulties in our own relationship, difficulties outside of us, difficulties with our children.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: To have a partner in life like that.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: It has been just an incredible privilege.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I just thank God every day for John and how he's used John to really shape me and draw me closer to him.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So I have a best friend I'm so thankful for.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: We truly are soulmates.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: But I always say actually, he always says that soulmates aren't found, they're created.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And we have worked hard, in the grace of God, to work hard on communication, work hard at choosing each other over ourselves.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: You know, it's day in, day out.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: It's the regular mundane days of really just choosing to die to ourselves, which some days we're better at than others and then just to reap the blessing of that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Honestly, it's just reaping.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: God's word is true, and if you do what it says, there's blessing and flourishing, and so we have just tried to align our hearts and our marriage, you know, to what God's word says.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: So a hundred percent.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: That's a little bit about us, yeah, yeah, having just celebrated our 25th, in one way you go how could we be this old?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And also like wow, that went so fast.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: But when you really stop and you start kind of thinking about the life that you've lived in those years 31 for you guys, 25 for us it is crazy and my heart hurts for people that don't get to experience this stage of marriage, because in the earlier stages I always tell when I'm talking to moms who feel just hopeless and overwhelmed and like they're drowning in all things.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I really believe for us those late 20s, early 30s, those were just a hard season, not because we didn't like each other, but because there was so many little people and there was so much exhaustion and there was fighting for career advancement and there was financial pressures and I mean there's just so much in that late 20, early 30 stage and I think that's when so many marriages collapse.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: And to be able to be on this side of that and to feel like, oh my gosh, reaping the benefits of now having adult children and I know you can speak to way beyond that in-laws and just this extended family and grandkids, what would you say to I'm gonna, we're gonna have to do another series here, maybe with you and John together, on marriage, because I do feel like there needs to be strong voices speaking into men just about so much stuff.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Right, but what would you say to young couples who are listening to this, who are in the throes of maybe it's traditional where mom is home with the kids and dad's out chasing career, or maybe both parents are working?
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: What would you say are key things that you and John did to keep your marriage a priority over every other thing outside of your relationship with the Lord, over being a parent, over the career?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: How did you navigate that?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one thing that comes to mind right away is we tend to.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: One of the beautiful things about marriage and partnership is that we get to lean on each other and, you know, really kind of sometimes have to hold up each other or find support in the we're doing this together kind of a thing.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: But one of the things that we realized early on was that it was not going to be good if I and this would be a tendency of me, because I was younger, John was, you know had gone to seminary.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: He was a pastor here.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I am just an 18 year old, kind of in the middle of trying to finish off college.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: It would have been really easy for me to lean on him as a spiritual mentor, as a spiritual person in my life.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: And I think we realized quickly that that was not always going to be a good thing in the sense of I think we get lazy in commanding our own souls, and what I would say to marriages is that we need to take individual responsibility for our own souls.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And, just like I said that this morning I'm getting up, it is not John's job to get me happy in Jesus, it's my job to get my soul happy in Jesus.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Because what happens is, if I'm having a crummy day and I just you know what, I'm going to have a crummy day and John decides, hey, she's having a crummy day, Well, I'm going to go down that hill with her again.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: No, we're good hours, Sometimes days, sometimes weeks back, you know, going back in time or going back in maturity or going back in spiritual growth.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: We've just rewinded and now kind of made a little mess and I think what some marriages tend to do is that we go, hey, if he's going, you know my husband's not a spiritual leader right now.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Why would I have to do anything spiritual?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Why do I?
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: have to read my Bible.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: He's not reading Bible.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: The Bible says he's supposed to be the spiritual leader.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Well then, I'm just going to chuck it there.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Well, the Bible says he's supposed to be the spiritual leader.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Well then, I'm just going to chuck it.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: There were, there was a season when I remember, when Luke went to college, so our first born goes off to college, and they went far away.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: We live in, you know, illinois, and our kids all went to Southern California for college, in the master's university, and it also happened to be the same year that John's dad passed away.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: So it was, it was a hard year because our only boy was leaving, our first kid was leaving and John had lost his dad.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: And I remember you know John's not a big crier, I don't a lot of men maybe aren't I remember coming downstairs some mornings and just seeing him sitting on the couch crying, and I thought to myself oh boy, are we going over the cliff?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: And then I just remember thinking no, we do this together.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: We have seasons where we, we, my faith, is going to be strong and I'm going to know at all costs, you know, if John makes decisions to go one direction, I don't have to go that direction.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I'm responsible to watch my soul.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I love Proverbs 4, 23,.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Watch over your heart with all diligence, for from it flows the springs of life.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: It is not John's job to watch over my heart.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: It's not my job to watch over John's heart.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And if I do what God has asked me to do, which is to watch over my heart, then we're going to.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: It's going to be great because we're both doing the good work and that makes us stronger together.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: And I think there's just a tendency to shift our responsibility, even spiritually, onto the other one and expect them to be like no, we're going to have a thankful day, or we're not going to grumble, you know, expect them to leave.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: There's been days where I've had to say to John no, we're not going there, no, we're not going to be grumpy today, let's.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: What are we thankful for?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: And I didn't even mention this, but one of the things that's textbook to John and my marriage is we have this thing that when we are having a bad day and if I'm having a bad day and we're together, what are you thankful for?
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Literally, I want to scratch his eyes out.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I don't want to answer that question.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I'm so grumpy, but we have committed to each other over 31 years to sit there until the list grows and grows, and grows, and so that's one very practical thing that we do.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe we're both having a bad day.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Well, we've just committed that we are going to get the thankful list out, and they could be, it could be like I had.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I just had an Americano at Starbucks.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Some days are like that.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, that coffee was awesome.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Other, most days, it's it's not that you know small of a thing, buts where we're wanting to work gratefulness into our heart, because the Lord asks us to be grateful, to rejoice in our suffering, to count it all joy to.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I will bless the Lord all times because his praise will be continually on my mouth.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: This is how we practice praise continually on our mouth.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: So the first thing is own your own soul, watch over it yourself, get yourself into the word and get it to a happy place in Jesus.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Don't wait for your spouse to get you there.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Even if it's two years, five years, 10 years, you will be moved forward in your walk with Jesus and that's a win.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: That's a win.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: And the second thing is get that thankful list out, and if your spouse doesn't want to be part of it, fine, you do it, because it's going to make you flourish in the Lord that day.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: So those are two things that come to mind right away for me.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Love that we get lazy in commanding our own souls.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: That's a really good Betsy Dirks.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Like write that one down.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Betsyism.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Right, a Betsyism, and it reminds me of a quote that I heard that's so powerful.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: That is, we tend to judge others by their actions and ourselves by our intentions, and just how easy it is.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I am responsible for my actions and I need to hold myself accountable to that.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Not I intended to do this or I intended to do that, but I'm going to hold myself accountable to my actions.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I feel, like so many marriages that I see or I witness, there is this inability to cover each other's weaknesses and I think that maybe a superpower that Jed and I have figured out again that's cliche right, not superpower.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Through God's goodness and His grace, he has taught us that.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I think early in marriage it felt very empowering when I could call out a weakness because it you know, it helped me look a little bit better or, you know, make me feel a little bit better about my own weaknesses, if I can find yours Over the years I feel like we have really found a way that we can put each other in the spotlight in our strengths and then cover each other in our weaknesses.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And it's sad to me how many marriages I look at that look like two people on completely individual paths.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: They're doing their own things.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: The amount of people I talk to that couldn't tell you about what their husband does for a job, who he works with.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I could write a book about what my husband does and who he works with.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I could write a book about what my husband does and who he works with and the conversations that he's had and what he's struggling with.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: And that's been a skill and as our kids have gotten older, there's more time just for that uninterrupted conversation.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: But I watch you and John, I watch.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Maybe sometimes I'm like Lord, help me stop looking at John and Betsy as we're worshiping.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Let me look.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I haven't noticed, it's okay.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: You have the creeper on the left side.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: No, because there's just something so beautiful about some of the rhythms that you guys have worked into your life that probably aren't even you're not intentionally doing them.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: They've become habits and rhythms and there is a genuine joy and there is that you know his arm around you for the quick squeeze or the lean in and just the partnership.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I know that you show up to that nine 30 service.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I know that you stay in your worship at the beginning of the 11.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: There is just a beautiful partnership to what you guys have and I know that we see a version of it and I know that behind closed doors, I think you guys are probably very similar.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I know it's not always perfect.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: What would you say?
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Is that something that you've developed?
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Has that always been like a core thing?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: There's just a partnership and it's clear that everything about life Betsy and John they're on the same page.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: They're doing this together, they're cheering each other on.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: We're in a huge, exciting multiply project and I could just tell on Sunday morning like I knew you were carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders, because you knew John was carrying the weight of the world and just watching that partnership of of I'm going to put you in the spotlight to shine and then where there's some weaknesses, I'm going to cover you of.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to put you in the spotlight to shine and then where there's some weaknesses I'm going to cover you.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: What has that?
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: How has that evolved and what does that look like?
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: That's a great question, I think, and I know this is an important value in your lives.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: But I've had people that I've watched.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I've mentors that I've watched who really done that really well, one in particular that I'm so thankful for her example to me as a pastor's wife and how she loved and covered her husband and his weaknesses and just really celebrated his strengths.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: So I would right away give tribute to my friend, who was a tremendous mentor to me in that and also a tremendous mentor to me in joy and thanksgiving and just always finding ways to celebrate life.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I think one thing right away is that I love the idea of calling and purpose and my husband is called to preach and he is called to lead the Lord's church here in Rockford at Redeemer, and I am called wherever John is, because that's what I believe God says of a wife she's called to support and help her husband, and so I take that really, really seriously.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that's just because he's a pastor.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I would even extend that over.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Not that your only mission as a wife is your husband, but that is a big part of who you are is that you come under and help and support.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And I think I've found again, I'm just invigorated by the idea that I can do a lot of damage.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I love that verse in the Proverbs.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: It says a wise woman builds her house, but a foolish one tears it down.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And let me tell you, I have torn my house down too many times.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And again, I keep talking about these ideas of how much it's cost us when I do that and I think I just have realized it's not worth it.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: It's not worth it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: It costs everybody so much.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: If I, you know, if I offend and hurt my husband or I lose self-control in my mouth, the loss is massive and I think I, I just I don't have space for that.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: There's not enough time left in life to to do that.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: So again, I'm under conviction of the Holy Spirit, I'm not going to waste time doing that.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: So my purpose is to make sure John crosses the finish line.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I want that man finishing what God has called him to do full throttle and I'm passionate about that.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: And so you know, whether that's because someone mentored that for me, or it was an example for me, or whether I've just realized I've made so many mistakes and gone backwards that I don't want to do that anymore.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I just have a vision to get my husband across the finish line as much as it's up to me.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Of course I can't.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: He is most of that and between him and the Lord that's his responsibility.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: But I feel compelled to do that.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: So I partner with John because I know it's my calling and I love the verse in Colossians 1.28 that says you know, our job is to.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: It's our joy and privilege to teach people and to complete them in Christ.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I take a serious.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: It's very important to me that I do my part in completing John in Christ and I carried that into our children.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Like I feel very weighty by that responsibility, so it's a priority on the days I don't feel like it.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: First, corinthians 13,.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Man, I don't think I've ever seen the section of that's.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: The love is, you know, love is patient, love is kind.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: It doesn't boast, it's not arrogant or rude, it doesn't insist on its own way.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Boy, I've done that too many times and it's been it lands us in a ditch.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: But the one I really love, which I think John has really taught me, love bears all things and that's what you're talking about when you're talking about, you know, absorbing or covering believes, all things.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: On the days where we've offended each other, the days that John is like you know what, she's not going to stay like that because the spirit of God is going to change her and I believe God's going to soften her heart, even though it's real stubborn right now.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: You know, to hope and believe that God is going to bring me out of that dark place.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Man, that's just tremendous.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: And to do that to each other, it's supernatural.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: It's the Spirit of God filling us up.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You know this is love, is the fruit of the Holy Spirit living in us.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: So when we bear each other, our sins against each other, those are the worst ones, right, not just the burdens at church and the burdens in our parenting.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: But when we offend each other and we were like we've wronged each other, those are heavy.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Those are heavy to bear, believes, all things, that you look at each other and go.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: That's not the John I know, when he's filled with the Spirit of God and not the John.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I know when he's filled with the spirit of God and to believe that for him.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: If he has to say I was wrong when I did that, in my head I'm like, okay, get there, forgiveness, forgiveness.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: But you know, there's been a few days where I'm like I know that's not you, I know that's not you, with the spirit of God in you, and when he does that to me it's there's a supernatural transaction that goes on.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So I think that that we bear all things, we believe all things, we hope all things, we endure all things.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Love never ends.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: But the last section of that, it means more to me than I think.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: The beginning section where maybe in the earlier days I was trying to be patient and kind and not selfish.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: But now it's the going the distance with bearing all things.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: It's going the distance with believing all things and hoping all things and enduring through all things.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: So I'm compelled, nikki God has given me a passion and a purpose to really support John in that and I'm thankful for that.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I am thankful for it and he's equipped me and I don't do it perfectly every day and some days I don't want to do it.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And I want to ask a hard follow-up Again that we've gotten a little bit off script.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: So now we're just now, we're just chatting girl to girl, so a lot of listeners are going to listen to that and think, yep, nope, I cannot set myself aside like that.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I cannot just my, I can't even fathom my goal being just to help finish my husband right.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: There's this unhealthy me over others, and I would love for you to speak, though, and I think this is so important, and if you're a man listening, just listen from a perspective of a woman who's in a marriage, who has a heart to see her husband succeed, who has a heart to be all in on the good mission and the work of her spouse.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I know for a fact that there's an other side of this that makes you so committed to that work, and I think it plays directly into the way that your husband loves you, honors you respects you and empowers you, also in this ministry, to go out and do incredible things.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: So to the, to the man that maybe is stuck on man I wish my wife could say those things about me but maybe isn't coming home at the end of the day and jumping in and helping the kids, isn't speaking life over his wife, isn't honoring and setting out on mission to go have this incredible impact on the world and your children.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Who isn't recognizing the actual sacrifice that it is at home?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: What would you say are things that John has done to bolster you up to be his biggest advocate?
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Because I believe that our husbands provide us with the actual armor to go out and fight those battles, and so often we ignore that part of the conversation or we assume that it's happening.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I just think it's an important conversation to have, because if you had a husband who was demeaning you or talking down to you or who wasn't involved in the family, I have to believe that your resolve would look different.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: And so what has John done to build you up and to show you who you are in Christ and what he sees in you, to be able to go and do the things that you do?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an insightful question.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I think it makes me want to backpedal a little bit with the idea that you know, wow, where did she get this crazy idea to just deny herself and support this guy?
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: She's got to be crazy.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy because it's supernatural.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: You cannot honor and respect and support anybody else other than yourself unless the Spirit of God changes you through the blood of Jesus Christ, and my husband could not honor and love and care for me.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: It does not work unless you've truly been changed by Jesus Christ.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: So none of this is going to work unless you come back.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: You can't put all these skills come back.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: You can't put all these skills on you.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: You can't grow in.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: These 10 things are going to make an awesome marriage.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I come back to the fact that I can do all things through Christ.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: It strengthens me.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: That's Philippians 4.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: This stuff doesn't it's supernatural, it's otherworldly.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: It is opposite of what our nature is.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So you can for sure be like, yeah, it's opposite, yeah, I came from that place, so I can say that I know it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: And there are days where it still feels opposite in my nature.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: But because the Spirit of God, who raised Jesus Christ from the dead, lives in me, he can give life to me and he can empower me.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: So that's why I might feel so foreign what I'm talking about.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: But I've truly been changed by Jesus, and so has my husband.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: So I go back to Ephesians five.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: That says that husbands and I don't I don't do this as I want to I'm.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I want to be careful as I speak to husbands.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not a husband.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Here's one thing I say to women we don't know what it's like to bear the responsibility before the Lord of a wife and five children.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know what John carries.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I just don't.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it feels like to have to and again, this is just Dirk's personal.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I know it looks a little nuanced out there.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Everyone's doing it a little differently, but for me I just don't know the pressures that John has.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, it says that he will answer to the Lord for me and his family.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I will never have to answer to the Lord for my husband's spiritual wellbeing.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I don't even have to answer for my kids.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: My husband does, and so there's a weight there that I don't understand, I don't know, but I need to be thoughtful about, I need to be considerate about, and that, in and of itself, more than anything, is that I'm called to honor John because that's what God asks me to do.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: But I don't understand.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: You know his weight, so I think there's there's understanding in that, like you know, just because, so I say that to the guys, you know, we don't know the weight you carry, we don't know what it's like to have to to get a paycheck into the bank and hope that, you know, even in this economy it pours out enough to pay all the bills, to get all the groceries, to pay the gas.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Now, kids are whatever going to college or in sports.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: That's a tremendous amount of pressure, and so I'll just say that I don't know what that's like.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: However, the Lord asks you in Ephesians 5 to live with your wife in an understanding way, which, again, is not going to happen, barring a miracle, because we are complicated creatures.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I don't even understand myself.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: You know Jeremiah says who can know the heart?
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: It's desperately wicked.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I don't even know myself, and yet the Lord is asking husbands to live with their wives in an understanding way.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: That doesn't happen without saying Lord, help me, because I can't figure her out.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I love the saying that I can't remember what pastor said this and now John will say it.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I've been married to five different women.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: It's Betsy, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I've changed every decade my needs.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Even the way I relate to him changes, and so the poor guy is shifting gears every decade.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: That takes a lot to live with a wife in an understanding way.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: So I'll say that for myself I'm complicated, I couldn't even counsel myself out of a out of a hole sometimes.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: So, but God asks you to live with your wife in an understanding way, and I, what the beautiful thing about that is, every wife is different.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Living with me in an understanding way perhaps is a little different than Jed and how he lives with Nikki in an understanding way, but you figure out what it means to live with your wife in an understanding way.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: She might have needs.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: She might have physical needs that some women don't have.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: She might have emotional needs that some women don't have, spiritual needs, you know.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: But your job before the Lord is to study her in his strength, live with her in an understanding way.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And what I would say to you is over 30 years, john has not done that perfectly, but he has really worked to live with me in an understanding way and I'm thankful for that.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: You know he has weaknesses but that's not one of them he had.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I think he had.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: You know he had sisters.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: So he's and he's very intuitive.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: He has four daughters.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: He could read my daughters better than I could read my daughters.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not really good emotionally.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: He's very good that way.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So I would encourage husbands and if you're like I can't get women, I don't understand them Call out to the Lord.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Help me, lord, because he's given this beautiful woman to you that you are supposed to present before him.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: That means he's going to make you able.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: He who's called you is faithful.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what verse that is in, I think it's 1 or 2 Timothy.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: He'll be faithful to equip you to do that.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: So I would just what John has done over time is denied himself over and over and over to live with me in an understanding way.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: He's taken time to get to my soul, to ask questions, and again, he didn't do it perfectly in the beginning, but he's just taken time to figure me out, and when I couldn't even figure myself out, and I think that's just conveyed so much love to me.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: So I would, you know, go to the that in particular.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: That's one thing that John's done.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: It makes.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: That makes me laugh because again that you know, nikki, 1.0, 2.0, I think we do.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You change every decade and it was just probably in the last couple months.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I know we mentioned it last week.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I'm in the post-menopausal stage and so for men who, who your wives are younger, just prepare yourself for the next stages.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: But you know, I, I I would tell Jed something like I need this from you.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not feeling like you're seeing me in this and one night we were laying in bed and it was a tearful season of life for me for like six months where I just felt like I cried all the time and he looked at me and he said can I just tell you what this feels like?
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: And I thought, sure.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And he said I feel like every week you give me the game plan and I go and I get ready to kick the football and then you move the goalpost.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I just feel like you're constantly moving the goalpost and I'm kicking a football where I thought you told me you wanted to go and I'm like, okay, that's like a really good indicator of how he feels right now.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: He feels like he is kicking at a target that I am literally running around and moving on him and it is.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I love that that in an understanding like my chaos, my crazy, always changing, always evolving ways, to have a husband that just lives in understanding, how far that that goes goes the gentleness in there.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Because understanding, when I think about when somebody says to you, I understand what you're saying like just that word has compassion in it.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: It has, I see you, I understand and I think that's super powerful, betsy.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing that.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: And I recognize man.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: 50% of the time I feel like I get it wrong.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: 50% of the time I'm like I wish I could have done that better.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I should have said that differently.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: And God in his goodness, we don't have to get it 100%.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: We don't have to get it 100%.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: And when we fill the gaps where we fail or where our spouse fails, our marriage counselor when we got married was my uncle and he just said my advice to you is always go to bed at the same time.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: And number two is always fill the gaps with truth and love, because there's always going to be gaps in.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I think he meant this, or he said that Whenever there's a gap that doesn't feel right it's like what you talked about with I'm going to believe better than that.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to believe that God is going to bring him through that and refine him through that.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: When I can choose to fill the gaps of misinformation or conversations that went astray because he's on a work trip and we've got five minutes on a phone call, fill the gaps with truth and love, because human nature, especially for women, especially for me, goes to.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I am going to chalk that gap full of lies and evil and go down a path that I don't need to go on and just fill that with truth and love.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: So, to wrap this up, talk to me about.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: We're 31 years into marriage.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: We've got kids, we've got in-laws, we've got six grandbabies, another on the way.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: What is the bounty of the reaping of the field that you have, literally you and John, for 31 years in different capacities?
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: John, with that weight that you said we don't comprehend, of providing you with the weight that our husbands don't understand of caregiving and just a mama's heart and soul Right, both pouring into that 31 years.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And now we're at a stage where you're looking back and also looking forward to now four families, I'm sure soon.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: You know everybody has their own families and is doing their own thing now.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: What does it feel like to be in the place of just reaping the rewards of being faithful in the season of parenting and marriage the last 31 years?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my heart is so much for the young families that are in just the weeds right now.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: You cannot see, and one of the most difficult things about that is you don't get quick results.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: You don't get results tomorrow on how hard you've been working to train you know your two-year-old, or or how many conversations you've had with your teenager over and over and over about their identity and who they are.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: You don't get quick results and I think what I it's such a yeah.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I would just want to encourage those of you out there that just stay at it, stay faithful, press on, even like the apostle Paul says in Philippians three, that we don't lose heart, we don't give up.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Because it's crazy, like you literally are in those years for 15, 20 years and you blink and all of a sudden you're going wow, I am now seeing the fruit of many years of prayer, hard work, I think of.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Like one thing that is, you know, so fulfilling is to actually see our children treasure and choose the same priorities and values that we had as a family, like they're not running from us, like you kind of think there's some things I wanted to fix that my parents did Perhaps.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I know I did and I know they want to do that too.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: But the fact that they, they love us still, that's crazy.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: They want to hang out with us still.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: They want their kids around us still.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Those are some of the the just greatest joys.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Now, to see your children have children is just mind blowing, literally crazy.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: That even a human that you created could have another human is amazing.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: But I think, just just stay at it.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: You know, if you're thinking I can't, I'm not going to ever get out of this, you are going to get out of it and the hard work will bear.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: And I think it's.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like running the marathon.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: You know those, all those training runs.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I've never done one, truth be told, but I've heard all about them.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: But you know, you do the buildup runs, but 22 miler is the top one you do and you trust the training to get the result.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And that is the same thing.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: We are running a marathon.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Whether it's marriages, parenting, walking with Jesus, having joy every day, all of these things are marathons.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: But trust the process, do the little things, commit them to Jesus, and you add up all of those things In over 25 years.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden you're reaping the fruit of all of the training.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: So stay at it, press on, don't give up.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: You're going to get knocked down.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: You're going to get back up.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I think I just want to encourage you, young moms or moms of teenagers man, I know those days are hard, even of you know, emptying, nesting and letting people go.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: There's hard seasons in all of it and I think just be faithful to trust what the Lord says in his word, what he says about obedience, what he says about, you know, raising children, putting others before ourselves all of that just bears fruit.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So John and I are, honestly, we could pinch ourselves Like.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Our kids are nearby.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: They went when all went away to college.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: They came back.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: We can't believe that we now get to experience like being Papa and Gigi and having these little people run up to us at church, you know, as John comes off the stage preaching Papa, papa, papa.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It's just thrilling and I'm just thankful.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: You know we couldn't have orchestrated that, it's God's grace in our lives.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: But we are.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: I could die and go in heaven.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Seriously just thankful, thankful, thankful.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: But there were days where I thought maybe dying and going to heaven would have been better With the little kids.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: So hear that.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: You know, it seems like I've got pie in the sky, but there were so many days tears.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Help me, jesus.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Over and over and over again.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: You feel so ill-equipped, but God's going to give you strength.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: So I've said a lot today.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: It's been awesome, awesome to be with you, nikki, just so good, so good.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Betsy and I'm just for us.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: We always, like you've mentioned mentors that you had in your life that really you know you're so grateful for.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I think it is so important that people have those mentors before them, and Jed and I are so grateful, even though we've only just been getting to know you guys the last couple of years, just so grateful for just the example that you guys are about marriage, service to each other, the way that you parent, the way that you show up with joy, big faith I mean these are all things that I know are practices that God has honed in you over decades and decades.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And just how grateful I am as a church member and I know so many others and I've never asked anybody this Betsy on the podcast but I just feel compelled today that this podcast will air the week before Thanksgiving and we won't meet again, friends, until January.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: We're going to take December off and I just feel compelled to ask you if you wouldn't mind just praying for the listeners, for the families, for the moms, for the husbands, just to put these marriages.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know why that makes me emotional, sorry, yeah.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I know why?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the devil is out there's just I know why?
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cause the devil is out.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: He's working hard to destroy marriage and family and a word like this today is going to.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: We're just trusting that, honestly, listeners, it's a, it's a word that we are trusting God is going to use to to fix and heal, restore.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: So let me just ask the Lord to do that right now.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Lord Jesus, we thank you.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: We thank you that there are, providentially, people listening right now that we have no idea about, because you are such a wonderfully sovereign God that you have each listener right now that hears my voice here on purpose, lord, here for a reason, and what I want to ask is, in your name, that you would give them hope today.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Would you be a God that is present in their life and whatever it is the one thing, the two, a couple of things to work on today or to be committed to that.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Whatever they can do, as far as it's up to them, lord, that they would do their part and they would just offer it to you.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Lord, I love the idea of two fish and five loaves.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Most of my life, that's all I ever feel like I have to offer, lord, and nothing back to you, but you can do miracles with fish and loaves, and so I pray for these dear souls that are listening right now that you would bring hope today, because you are a God of hope.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I pray that you'd bring courage, I pray that you'd bring perseverance, I pray that you'd bring joy, that you'd give them moments to celebrate Lord, new moments to celebrate, that they'd find things that they could find joy and gratitude in, even in the smallest little things today but maybe that's a new habit they're going to pick up, lord is just finding the good in all of the mundane, and so I just pray that you would strengthen, encourage.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: This would be a crossroads moment for many of these marriages, as far as it is up to the person listening.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: They do their part, offer it to you and expect you to do a miracle with it, and so we ask these things in Jesus' name, amen.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Amen, amen.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Bets, thank you so much.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks for covering my weakness there.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: When I got emotional, you knew exactly what I was going to ask you, just to dive right in there.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: So, friends, this is the end of year, one on A Heart that Beats for Home, and I can't imagine any better way to end it than just with that message from Betsy these last two weeks.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: So, enjoy Thanksgiving, have a beautiful Christmas with your family, and I always ask you for something at the end of this a call to action.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Today, the call to action is to reflect, to sit in the truths that you have heard, and to take action and to not wait.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: To not wait till you feel ready to open that Bible, to be the supporter for your spouse, to be the joy giver for your family, and to not derail your family.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Take ownership for your soul and show up big for your family.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: It is worth it, it's kingdom work, and what you're doing as a mom, as a wife, is the most benefit that you could ever contribute to this world, and so we're just so grateful to have you here, friends.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: So, bets, thank you so much.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: So so much.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you, nikki.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Total joy to be here.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, All right.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Until next year, friends not.