Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Jonathon Jay, from Trainee Paraplanner to Chartered Financial Planning Director at Investec

Transcript

Jonathon Jay, from Trainee Paraplanner to Chartered Financial Planning Director at Investec · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: This week's guest is Jonathan J, who is an associate director-level financial planner at Investtech Wealth.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Really enjoyed recording this podcast with Jonathan.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's a prime example really of how ambition, hard work, self-belief, and a clearly defined goal can really propel your financial planning career forward within a very short period of time.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Jonathan didn't leave school with the greatest of A levels, he didn't go to university.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: However, it didn't stop him from achieving his level four diploma within seven months and becoming chartered by the age of 26.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And Jonathan takes us on a career journey from administrator all the way up to director level, financial planner for Investtech.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he shares hints and tips on how to influence those within the business to get recognized and really how you yourself should take control of your career and the best way to do that to get the best results and to get you moving up that career ladder a lot quicker than you think.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so thank you so much for joining me today, Jonathan.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Sam.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: On the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had a listen?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had a listen before?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I like to put people on the spot, actually.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I saw a couple of them, yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because obviously you reached out to me, didn't you?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: As as you know, looking to hopefully become a guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Why was that?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: What was it about the podcast that you that sort of drew drew you to me?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was so career focused and you know, talking about how people can get into the industry, what sort of expectations that they should have about being in the industry.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just don't think there's enough out there.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't think we pull enough talent really into the industry.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, if you're a lawyer, an accountant is a very clear path into those industries.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of feel that a lot of people in financial planning fall into financial planning in accidentally in lots of ways.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just feel really passionate about trying to get more talent into the industry.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the whole purpose of the podcast.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's about raising the profile of financial planning as a profession, hopefully attracting new people to the industry, but at the same time, sort of hopefully sort of inspiring those that are already working within financial planning and helping them see the different routes in different companies, you know, because with financial planning, there are lots of opportunities in different roles, but at the same time as well, there's loads of different sort of paths you can take.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, some people go down the employed route, some people go down the self-employed route, some people go from power planning to you know to compliance to administration.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different routes, and and I think different companies have different timescales and different cultures.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um it was good for me really to try to pull in lots of different people from the industry and get them to share their stories.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm pleased about that.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, you're right, there's there's nobody out there doing a careers-based podcast around financial planning, and yet there are very, very few people coming into the industry, and we're getting a lot of people that are going to be exiting the industry within the next 10 years.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, from my perspective, there's a huge opportunity for financial planning as a career.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um definitely some good, you know, and it's a good money to be made in financial planning.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not beat around the bush.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a good financial planner, you know, you've got some good clients on board, you can you can earn some good money in in in this career.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and obviously it's a very fulfilling uh career with offers a work life balance as well.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, nice one, Jonathan.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Good, someone who's passionate about the industry, that's what I want to hear.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, Jonathan, what's um you know the whole purpose, and then you're sure we've heard it with the Financial Planner Life podcast, is to really understand your career today, okay, because you're currently working as associate director at Fur InvestTech.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't walk into that job, you obviously worked your way up to that position.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So really keen to hear about your journey, how you got into the industry, um, and what you've experienced really, and how you've managed to get yourself up to the level of director at InvestTech at quite a young age as well.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, really keen to hear that, and I think that'll inspire a lot of our listeners who are on the beginnings of their journeys.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, one thing I always like to ask first of all is how did you get into the financial planning industry?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in a very long-winded way.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Almost take you back to what we've just said about um about the industry itself, uh, and I fell into it by accident in a in a lot of ways.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I left school with not the greatest A levels.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I probably should have done better.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, I definitely should have done better.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'd planned through my last few years of of being at school to being um uh an officer in the army to be a pilot in the army.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was all on track apart from my A levels, so I had to rethink.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and once I left school, clearly going into the army, not having a degree uh was the ambition.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided not to go to university.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: My A levels made my mind up with that as well.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I didn't have a degree, I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do because everything had kind of been thrown up in the air.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was thinking, you know, because the whole army thing didn't go quite to plan, I had literally had no idea.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just went and got a local job at a a call center.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And after a few different call center jobs, I managed to um to get myself into Santander Bank working in customer service.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was telephone-based, uh, and that kind of I went through a few different roles there through into sales, um, and I that was about three years into working, and I decided at that time I'd had I'd had enough fun um and I wanted to start taking you know my career seriously.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and around that time I met my now wife at Santander who got a job working for Emirates in Dubai.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah um and I grew up in Dubai, so I knew the place well.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was speaking to my dad about possibly moving over there to be with be with Faye, and he put me in touch with a friend of his who was I I've because I'd worked in a bank, I decided you know I'd I'd carry on down some sort of financial services route, but I just didn't really know.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point, then you're working at Santander, you you worked in sort of multiple roles, roles, customer service sales, that type of thing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you started getting an understanding of of of financial services.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you realised also as well, it can be a bit of a DOS, can't it, in um contact centers.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can have a bit of fun and all that.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I used to, I used to work in um sort of for Aviva, the joint venture with the RBS on their bonds and investments and all of that.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a trainer and I worked all the way through contact centers.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Great sort of great ground to get your head around financial services and great sort of place to get um multiple skill sets, especially around I think customer service.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't do that, I don't think I'd have really given a crap about customer service, actually, because I was a bit of a sales monitor at times.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it taught me a lot around that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So from there then you kind of thought, did you have an idea though, when you were in Santander that financial planning was something that you wanted to get into?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Were they talking about that?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Was there sort of training, development, or anything along those lines?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't think I actually really knew what a financial planner was at that time.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um my idea of what a financial planner was is the person you went to see in a bank branch who would sell you a credit card or a mortgage or set you up with a current account.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really didn't know too much about financial planning at all.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it was completely accidental.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so so my dad linked me up with this this guy in Dubai, yeah, and I met him when I went over there to to visit Faye.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he put me in touch with, he had a conversation with me, said, you know, I'm willing to um to send a few emails and put you in touch with a few companies in Dubai that do wealth management.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I'd kind of when I was in Dubai started to um look into careers in financial planning.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'll be honest, I saw that I had to do exams and I thought, do I really want to do that?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, so he put me in touch with a few wealth planning firms or wealth management firms in Dubai.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I went for a series of interviews and and landed a job with a company called AES International.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of the start of that of this journey now, if you like.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: What you said then about being put off by qualifications.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that the qualifications right now are too hard for somebody coming into the industry?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's too much of an ask to be to be level four qualified or not?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, I personally, yeah, um, I wouldn't be surprised if one day in the future level four is no longer um enough.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be surprised if it was chartered or somewhere in between um having a higher level of qualification.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's too much to ask at all.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you so again, if we go back to solicitors and accountants, they go through a full degree process and then have to go through a series of exams once they finish.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're going into any sort of professional service, um, which we need to consider ourselves as, then you should be expected to be highly qualified and well positioned to give that advice.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's as you mentioned there about accountancy solicitors, it's it's it's very early adopted in the in the universities, isn't it?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: People have that in the mentally in the mentality in their mind is that they want to become a solicitor or they want to become an accountant.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: No one really ever says I want to become a financial planner.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, there are university um qualifications now and degrees, isn't there?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the universities are offering financial planning as that route, and I think the more we see that, the more it's going to prepare somebody and go, do you know what?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like a profession I'd like to get into, and they'll start to do it, and then naturally the qualifications will just follow.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I most of the most of the sort of um the advice I've been sort of given from anybody who's talked about doing the qualifications is just to get yourself get stuck into it.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the you know, just don't stop basically, because once you get them, you know, you get a bit of rhythm going with them, you can pass them within like I don't know.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm speaking to people who passed them within six or seven months.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that was me with my my diploma actually.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Seven months I did my diploma in yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: You did yours in seven months, did you?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fair play.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So how did you did you okay?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm just sort of interrupting on your little journey here because you were obviously at Santander, went over to this eight, went over to Dubai with your with your now wife because she got a job over in Dubai.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: How old were you when you went over to Dubai?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty-two, I think.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Quite young then.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So did you get sort of hanged and jumped on by all the uh the act the the the real wealth management firms that are out there, like your DeVere's and all that kind of stuff?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did you interview with lots of people?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Massive ego boost.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're very good at that, aren't they?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so I think I went for five interviews and was offered five jobs.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they're all what they call um business development managers, relationship management roles, uh, where your job is to get on the phone and make appointments for financial planners.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: AES, the company I worked for, was the only firm who had offered something that's slightly different.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they were starting at that point um or had started, moving towards a UK model where advisors had to be UK qualified, level four qualified.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: They'd completely knocked the cold call in on the head.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they seemed to be again, I didn't really know enough about the industry to make my mind up, but like you know, I spoke about all the different options to my dad at the time, and he said, you know, this firm sounds like they're putting the clients at the middle of everything they do, at the centre of everything they do.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like they're the best route.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I got what was labelled um so they were doing a lot of setting up offshore bank accounts for uh people in for expats in Dubai.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So my role was kind of split between trainee power planner um and uh private banking executive where I was doing like the administration behind setting up these accounts.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a little bit of private banky relationshipy stuff.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: It weren't it wasn't the you know, um, oh by the way, join us as a wealth manager, here's a yellow page, is now make a thousand calls a day type type setup.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of landed on your feet there, really, because you're absolutely right.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think the 90% of the companies that are out there tend to be that route, and they bring people in as these business developers or whatever they want to call them.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially you're uh a glorified appointment maker earning commission, aren't you?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's there's a there's a fair few of them out there.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you're right.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the companies out there are changing now, you know.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: This um there's a few different laws that are changing over in over in the UAE where I think commissions are being halved and all sorts, so you can't quite work the way they used to they used to work, although you still can do commission-based as well as fee-based, but a lot of the firms are stuck to change, aren't they, and adopt the UK style of of advice.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um same really for a lot of the offshore, you know, even in Hong Kong.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a guy, Simon Parfitt, on the podcast, who was um he's life-centered financial planner, and he's really embracing the the fee-based model, and like one of the very few fee-based models in in Hong Kong, but it's working, you know, the assets under management model works.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's sustainable, isn't it?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely sustainable, but it also just means you're giving that clear advice to somebody and it's honest and it's not just commission, that is it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that's the concern that most people have with offshore is they're just flogging loads of really dodgy products just for high commissions.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you got yourself over to buy, you're over there, quite young, getting stuck into that.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You were doing this kind of like um uh private banking assistant type role almost.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So cut your teeth doing that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: How long were you there for?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did that work out?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Was that a dream role?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just didn't last very long.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wasn't I was on a I was on a salary.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there was no potential really to earn earn more than I was earning at that time, considering the role I was in.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's just so expensive to live there.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and between me and me and Faye, we decided well, actually, I was I really wanted to stay there and make a success of it because I could see the direction the company was going in, and you know, it all seemed great.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at that time to sit the exams, I would have had to travel back to the UK.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I wouldn't have been able to get through my exams very quickly at all because I couldn't come home every couple of months, I wasn't earning enough money to do that.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so getting through my exams in this at the speed I wanted to was going to be difficult.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: But also there was a guy who joined the company at the same time as me, but he was an advisor, he was loved for qualified, and he'd been an advisor in the UK.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he just said to me, Um, you know, we were we got on well, and he said, you know, if I think you've got what it takes to be a success in this industry, you know, you've got the right personality type, you've got the work ethic.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if you really want to take this seriously, the best route for you is really to go back to the UK to get that experience that you're gonna need, to get the exams you're gonna need.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that kind of made my mind up, let's be honest.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, that's very interesting then.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you were thinking in your head, you you wanted to do the level four quality, the UK qualifications.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't sit the exams over in Dubai.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a big pull for you as well about going back.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody who's obviously been an advisor in the UK, you're working with over in Dubai, could see the potential in you, but just thought that you know, you're probably not gonna be able to do it as quickly or as how you how you want to do it over in Dubai, get yourself back to UK and be qualified.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, was your sort of mindset right?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll go back to the UK, do my qualifications and then go back out offshore?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have that in your mind, or were you thinking, no, I'm gonna go back to the UK and just just you know, I've I've tasted a little bit of what Dubai has to offer, and it's not for me?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, look, I love Dubai.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in the Middle East, I grew up in Saudi Arabia and Dubai, and you know, I had I've got lots of contacts there, friends there.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and probably, yeah, when I when I first left, I thought it's unfinished business, should I go back?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as time's gone on, and probably not that long ago, actually, I completely ruled it out.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um moving to Dubai, you know.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've I think I've put in too much legwork here to to give up what I've now built in the UK and um and I work for a great firm.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it'd be very difficult to um to give that up, to be honest.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's me trying to pitch a job for you over in Dubai now, isn't it?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, do you think you're working in Dubai?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, great.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: That way, Jacob.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um all right, cool.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: So great.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's interesting.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very typical route as well.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people out there at the moment that I'm speaking to that are going off to Dubai, uh, UAE, um, and they are sort of cutting their teeth as a financial advisor, if you like, as a you know, over in an environment where he's either you know, they don't have to be level four qualified, and they're getting stuck into it because they're not doing it in the UK, they might be finding it difficult to get a route into the UK, or they're just sort of attracted by the roads being paved with gold that you see all these adverts come over to Dubai, earn£200,000 a year, and it's tax-free, and um, you know, uh, well, we you know, you can be a financial advisor, you don't need the qualifications.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some people are drawn into that, but you know, a lot of people go over there.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Some are an absolute success because I've spoken to some people earning ridiculous money, like you know, one to two million a year.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's unbelievable.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas some people just go over there and just just just can't do it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hard sales role as well, isn't it?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're having to it's it's competitive over there.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's relentless, yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of sales, isn't it, as opposed to or I would consider to be like traditional, it's financial.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: There is financial planning element of it, but there's a huge amount of emphasis on being a strong business developer, developer.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but those people coming back who who you know did all right out there.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the one thing they definitely got is some skill set around picking up the telephone and building relationships and not being afraid to generate some introducer relationships using LinkedIn effectively, sales basically, the be the BD side of the job, which um sometimes financial planners lack, they lack that skill set of being able to go out and win business.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then we see Well, I think that's the direction that the industry in the UK has gone down, is where you know we probably weren't that far away from the offshore market 20 years ago, uh 20, 30 years ago.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we've come a long, long way away from that sort of sales role and moved more into advice-led um business.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the word or or the the terms business development sales have almost become like dirty words in the industry.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And people are a bit scared to use them, and um, you know, still now financial planners have this reputation of being those sales salesmen, not door-to-door salesmen, and we're just so far away from that now.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we still carry that around a little bit, and I think people are a bit worried about that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's about really your brand as well that's behind you and supporting you.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you've built, you know, built a good brand, you know, if you've built a good personal brand or your company has a good brand, that should be enough to sort of build those relationships, but still you do, but you still do need to step outside of your comfort zone.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's I speak to people at all different varying stages of their career, and if somebody's going from like employed to self-employed and they've been used to clients, you know, it's a bit like when the everyone worked for the banks.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: People were so used to clients walking through the door that when they left, because the banks kicked everybody out due to RDR, they just couldn't get their heads around the fact that they have to go out and win their own clients.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a big struggle with people that are self-employed, is like that is change, is that mindset shift that you're gonna, well, you're not reliant upon the company passing you leads anymore.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: You have to go out and build relationships, introduce the relationships, you have to market yourself, build your personal brand.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the bits I think um people are starting to um to do better.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're seeing a lot more of it on LinkedIn, but um it's definitely an area of weakness, I think, for some.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right, cool.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you're over in Dubai, came back to the UK, right?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you didn't have any of the qualifications when you came back to the UK.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: You had a small amount of experience of working within this private banking type role, whereas a little bit of power planning, a little bit of administration.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of cut your teeth into it, but in your mind, you're thinking to yourself, right, now I want to get into financial planning.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's the industry I want to get into.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure, absolutely.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was next?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so coming back to Liverpool, I was very lucky actually.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll be perfectly honest, what I was doing at AAS wasn't power planning.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was far more administration uh than than anything, really.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd looked so for me, there's kind of three different um roles in financial planning.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: The second was at the time where you've got an administrator, a power planner, and a financial planner.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and luckily I had on my CV that had uh power planner title on my uh on my CV, and I was doing small bits and pieces, but um I I didn't want to move back to the UK and go into an administration role and have to then for me.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to get to be a financial planner as quickly as possible.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in order to do that, I needed to really to get a power planner role.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um I kind of skipped that administration role.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting then.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So your goal in your head was I want to be a financial planner.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, the the the going down the administration route and going down the power planner route was really a a stepping stone into becoming a financial planner, yeah?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So six years ago they didn't have Have these what they have now with like academies, apprenticeships, um, you know, this trainee financial planner role just didn't really exist at the time.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I felt like that was the stepping stone.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: That was the stepping stone.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and typically it still kind of is, really.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there is a mindset around that at the moment within within the profession that okay, well, work your way up from administrator, then do a power planner role, and then you can become a financial planner.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: But you do have these other options out there, like Quilter, etc., with the Quilter Advisor School.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's pretty damn good.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can get your qualifications within six to seven months.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: At St.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place, obviously, you've got a an academy, but you have to become a partner afterwards.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there are certain firms that are now bringing people in on into this kind of hybrid trainee role, or they're making it incredibly clear that if you join us on this program, you're gonna you're gonna learn a bit of administration, you're gonna learn a bit of power planning, and you're then gonna become a financial advisor within a within a time frame, within a within a period of time.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what people like to have is that clarity of when, okay, if I join your company, I want to be a financial advisor.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what my goal is.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be a power planner, but I'm happy to go through it and and and get myself up to the level to become to be to become a planner.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna talk about your experience really around that, because it's not a bad thing, is it, doing a power planner role?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not uh it's not an you know, in and so you you know, you you you came back to the UK, you marketed yourself on your CV by putting down power planner, fair play to you, you know, that's what it's all about.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you were doing some administration a little bit of power planning when you were at AES, you came back to the UK.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: How did you then get into a UK-based financial planning firm?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, take in um a very low salary at the time.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I didn't justify a high salary, uh I'll be very clear on that.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the power planner on the TV only really was a foot in the door.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I and then I was interviewed by a company called ES Walton in in Liverpool.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it was it was in the interview, I made no um sort of false promises.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was very clear that I hadn't been a power, I hadn't started my exams.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I wasn't, I was, I wasn't, I felt like I needed to justify in that interview being made a sort of it was a trainee power planner.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was gonna the role I was gonna be taking.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I took a low salary and um and just took a plunge really and wanted to prove that I could then and through the interview process as well, making it clear that you know my intention is to be a financial planner.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I need to get the right foundation in place through being a power planner, getting all the technical um sort of skills that I need to be a planner.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, that's that's that's the way I kind of position myself.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get did you get that job through a recruitment agency or did you go through like directly?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: How did you did you did you shortlist a couple of companies?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have multiple interviews?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna kind of to anyone listening to this that say has very minimal experience that's trying to get into a financial planning firm, I think um sometimes they're kind of they don't quite know the route into doing it because they either work they either want a recruitment company to go out there and find them that opportunity, but in reality the recruitment company really only ever gets paid for putting somebody in who's got experience.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of you are really fresh to it.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd like to just understand how you what did you do?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have an introduction?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Did somebody introduce you?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Did you send letters as C V C Vs out?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: How did you how did you find opportunities and how many did you have before you settled on this one?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: So my first step was to get in touch with a a recruiter who had advertised a few roles on LinkedIn.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I spoke to them about becoming a uh a power planner back in back in the UK, and they looked at my CV and uh and my CV on LinkedIn said that I'd worked offshore.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and they honestly just laughed at me down the boat.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, that was that put me off using a recruiter at that at that time because I was like, well, I need someone to be fighting my corner if they're gonna be uh recruiter for me.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um I just was on read every day looking at jobs that are out there and looking for jobs that are being posted direct from companies.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and luckily at that time, perfect fit.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there was a company that was a small outfit that um looked after clients how I wanted, you know, the sort of my exposure to to get my exposure from.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they just lost a power planner and they were looking for someone to replace them and train them up through the business.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when you joined that firm then, did they so did they put you through a clear career path?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get what, you know, what what was it, what was the reality like to what they're telling you in interview to actually what the job was was like?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did they meet your expectations and and and match your sort of ambition?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely initially.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they again they made no false promises.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: They said, you know, we think that you'd be the right sort of, you've got the right personality type for a for a financial planner.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um we need someone at the moment to fill that gap as a power planner.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can show us that you've you've got all it, all it takes to be a financial planner, we'll put you down that that route.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they put me through all my exams.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, like I said earlier, so I think I started in the December uh and I was diploma qualified by July.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um so they put me through all my exams, gave me all the support I needed.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was doing reports about two months in, probably.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing a lot of admin tasks initially, and then I started phasing in reports.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so by the time I got diploma qualified, I was feeling pretty comfortable doing reports as well.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so and would you say uh that but by the by by then you were a fully fledged power planner?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, a lot of people use a title power planner, but they're just administrators.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Were you doing things like you know the full power planning at this point with this company, cash flow modelling, all that kind of stuff, or would you just do assuming?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was doing I was doing all that sort of stuff.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they did cash flow planning for every client.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, I was doing I was doing almost everything that that for so in terms of the uh advice that they were giving to clients, yes, I was doing everything that you you require from a from a power planner.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but actually early on while I was at ES Walton, I was I was approached by a recruiter for a job at Investec.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I went for an interview there, and it was very clear the difference between the difference in clients that they were looking after uh and the different type of role.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: The power planner role was going to be a lot more involved, and I I felt like well, I'm not even diploma qualified at this point.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is way over my head.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to I first I don't want to chop and change my CV too much.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also I wasn't ready for for that sort of role at that at that point.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I got diploma qualified in the July, and the plan then I started going to meetings with ES Walton and with the with the advisors.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, this there's nothing wrong with this, um, but they were looking after smaller clients and Investtech after being through that interview and going through that process.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I could see that there were firms out there looking after much bigger clients, more complex cases.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'd kind of I'd kind of in my own mind made my mind up that I wanted to work with high net worth clients.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so they started putting me through this training plan.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in the back of my mind, I was thinking, do I do do I need to step sideways and do something else if if ultimately I want to work with a different type of client?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you okay, Brill, that's quite interesting then.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you you you've done over a year, you started getting your qualifications, you were getting embedded into that smaller, more boutique firm than ES ES Walton.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: ES Walton weren't a company, although they were doing everything right, they were given you know full financial planning and and and everything, and you know, fantastic, you know, company to work for, by the sounds of it, mentoring you, getting through your training, giving you everything you really wanted to work towards becoming a financial planner.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden you had your head turned by a recruitment consultant.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is probably did you find that all of a sudden you had a year's worth of experience with power planner on your C on your CV and then all of a sudden you became a bit of a bit of a hot commodity?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's became very clear how few power planners there are out there.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Especially in Liverpool, I think there's I think there's even fewer.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I do think this with people when I, you know, when people are thinking I want to become a financial advisor as quickly as possible, absolutely 100% become a financial advisor as quickly as you can.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can find you a route or you can find a route into having a trainee role, fantastic.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: But don't look past this power planner position, because as you just rightfully said there, there are very huge demand for power planners, and there's not loads of them out there.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as you've got power planner on your CV for a year, all of a sudden you become very attractive.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're an administrator earning£21,000 a year,£22,000 quid a year, as soon as you're got a few qualifications under your belt, even if you're you know part qualified, you can demand a salary of anywhere between 30 and 40,000 as a power planner.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And people are willing, willing to pay that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's that kind of really lovely route into financial planning.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to go down the route to become a financial advisor, or if you just want to stay being a power planner, the role power planner, you know, get your qualifications, get your experience, and your salary should shoot up as soon as you've um got a year's worth of experience on your CV.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my advice to anybody, really, at that stage is um, you know, get that get these qualifications and get that experience and have power planner on your CV or open so many doors for you at entry level.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's the bit I think people struggle with is like I don't want to be an administrator.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you went through it yourself, didn't you?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I don't really want to be an administrator, I want to get stuck into a financial planning role.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, at the time there was no there was no advisor schools or anything like that that that had those fast track options for you, but not to be sniffed at administration to power planning, you can jump salaries there and experience as well.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, cool.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: So whilst you were working for ES Walton, as we just sort of said, they they they weren't dealing with high net worth or ultra high net worth clients.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, would they would you could class them as kind of like Middle England then?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Those types of yeah, yeah.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And look, uh there's a huge space in the market for firms like ES Walton.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Without firms like ES Walton, they're on a a huge number of clients that aren't receiving financial advice when they when they ultimately need it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a case of um I was turning my nose up at it or or anything like that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was just I wanted to um I knew what I once I got diploma qualified, I wanted to get to chartered.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that was start starting to give me, you know, added uh technical ability that I wanted to be able to use.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the best way to do that was working with high net worth more complex cases.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: So for somebody listening to this right now, and we talk about complex cases, what's the difference then?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: What would be an example to say of a complex case for somebody who's high net worth against, say, um financial planning for a Middle England type client?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the difference between Middle England and high net worth advice?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'd say it goes from, you know, you're looking at um building up pension pots or taking taking from pensions tax efficiently, um, and you know, pension contributions, ISA contributions, that that type type of advice, to you've got a client that you need to manage income tax, you need to look at inheritance tax and the succession planning.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: They've got you know complex pension structures that you need to look at, and you're looking more as you go up this the um net worth scale, more and more areas of financial planning are needed per client, I'd say.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, it just it was just gonna be I was gonna have more exposure to so we weren't looking at estate planning very often, okay, for example.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because a lot of clients weren't didn't have an inheritance tax liability.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's something I wanted to get into.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and with that comes, you know, trust planning, things like that, which can be which can be very interesting and uh and complex.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was could just get an exposure to those different areas, really.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, so you're working as a power planner for ES Walton.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: You had a very sort of difficult decision to make by the sounds of it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, stay with a company that's invested some time and energy with you, giving you that sort of um leg up, if you like, within within the industry.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: You obviously gave your pound of flesh as well by the sounds of it.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: You worked hard.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, had your head turned by a recruiter talking about InvestTech, which are uh you know a very large and successful organization that deal with high net worth and ultra high net worth clients, and you thought to yourself, well God, I don't know whether or not I'm ready for this.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So um talk me through that then.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: You sort of thought, well, I'll go to the interview and let's see what happens.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: You mean early on with InvestTech?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: You mean yeah, um I think it was just a brand.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: The brand itself made me think I wasn't looking for a job, um, I wasn't interested in moving.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: But when someone sends you a message to say that a company like InvestTech are recruiting, um it's attractive.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think I m maybe subconsciously, I always wanted to work for a large firm like Investtech.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't hadn't given it too much thought, but clearly it was attractive to me, and that's why I had my head turned at that at that point.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd say, yeah, it was it was just the brand, I think, that really pulled me.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was the brand, okay.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: So in the back of your mind, obviously you had that thought process in your head that you were studying towards your chartered, you started learning a little bit more about complex cases in the environment you were currently in, you didn't really feel that you were probably going to match your, you know, get that level of experience within the company you're in, up comes an opportunity that give you that leg up into that environment, the high net worth and the ultra high net worth arena to give you that interesting work and um to to match your ambitions.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: So off you go to off you go to InvestTech then.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, at that point though, in your head, you're thinking, because you you obviously had ambitions still to be a to be a financial planner, not a power planner.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when you joined InvestTech, did they talk to you at interview stage about your ambitions?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Did they did they manage your expectations?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Talk me through that because it, you know, side in my head, I'd be like, well, I'm a power planner at the moment.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I sidestep into another power planner position?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I feel very lucky actually throughout my my career so far.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't had false promises at all.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't gone to a gone into a role and been told, you know, we'll make you a financial planner, but it it just was never going to happen.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't had experienced that, and I know that it does exist out there.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um with InvestTech, I actually took on a maternity cover.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was a 12-month contract, you know, at a put at that point in time.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, I wasn't married, I didn't have a child, I didn't have a mortgage to pay, so I could take that take that risk at the time.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, so I made it clear at the interview stage that I wanted to be made permanent if that was going to be an opportunity.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: If if there if there was no opportunity there to be made permanent or no discussion around that, I probably wouldn't have taken that that leap of faith.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, so as a 12-month maternity contract, I wanted um promises from InvestTech that uh there would there was a potential there to be made permanent, but also to be able to continue with my exams.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like continuing with my exams through a 12-month contract was almost um a commitment from them anyway, in in my sort of long-term future.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, they were the two things that I really looked for.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: But explaining as well that if I was to be be made permanent and Vestech, my the ultimate aim for me was to be a financial planner.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they were quite cool with that, were they?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: They were sort of open to that.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they said, look, you're gonna have to come in and work hard and and prove that you know you've got what it takes to become a financial planner.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, you've got to prove first that that you can be made permanent, you've uh and you're gonna fit in well with the team, and then prove to us that you can be a financial planner, and we'll look at that.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Again, at the time they didn't have a sort of pathway for someone to become a financial planner.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was always possible, but they hadn't had much of that uh before I joined.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: In in InvestTech, yeah?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was a before I actually joined the company, there's only one person I think that had gone from power planner to financial planner.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's been a few now.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: So ultimately then, so InvestTech hadn't made anybody, uh they didn't have any clear career path for you to say, hey, you know, join us, you'll become a financial planner within two, three years.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: They said coming as a power planner.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, you know, we we were listening to what you what you were saying, that you want to become a financial planner and we'll we'll help you on that journey.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously you've gone into you've gone into Investtech, you've you started as a power planner.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: So how long were you working there as a power planner before you became a financial planner?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh two or three years-ish.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, about three years, I think.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: About two or three years.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And was that longer than you envisioned and that you hoped for?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh listen, I'm very ambitious.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I definitely wanted things to happen very quickly.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was I was realistic to a point.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I guess Investtech with the type of client we work with reasonably wanted people to be chartered before taking that step.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I think I spent about two years as a power planner and then a year as a trainee.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I had about a year working as a as a trainee in between as well.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, by the end of two years, I I'd convinced them that they could put me on some kind of pathway which at that point had been had been designed.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's really interesting about yourself as well, because you are somebody that is in you you yourself, as you spoke on the on the telephone before, you you are someone that that that that likes to influence those you work with to see the value in what that you can, you know, what you'll bring into the actual role itself.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think when sometimes people sit within a power planning role and they don't raise their profile enough to um to get them noticed and to get them promoted.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give to somebody who's sitting in a power planner position at the moment who really wants to be a financial planner?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give them to help raise their profile within their company?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I try and put myself in the shoes of those who are going to make the decisions about me becoming a financial planner.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think what do you want to see from me?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: What have I got to do to prove to you that I'm worthy of that taking that step?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what sort of and if you just think practically, what do you need to have um done before you can take that step?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to have meeting exposure, you need to have not just meeting exposure, but of being able to contribute to those meetings.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so very early on, I was very clear that I wanted to be involved in meetings, uh, and you've kind of got to convince people to do to let you do that by saying, you know, I'll come to the meeting, I'll do the the work before the meeting to prep us, uh, we'll have a discussion about how the meeting's gonna go, I'll do the file note, and we'll have a discussion again, and I'll go away and do the power planning work.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but doing the file note is really important as well because you know, you you sit down, it's a way of summarizing in your own mind after a meeting how the meeting went, what sort of things were discussed, what sort of things you can put in place following the meeting.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a really good learning curve for for me.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, it started off just just getting in on meetings, and then eventually, once my confidence started to build in those meetings, you know, no matter what, you you're gonna go into those meetings and you're gonna have a bit of discussion with the clients early on by just saying, How are you?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's been going on?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you start having small discussions with clients and you kind of build your way into a confidence of okay, financial planner, I've prepped for this meeting, and one of the things we're gonna need to discuss is, I don't know, like a complex calculation.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: I put that work together, I know exactly how it works.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you happy for me to talk to the client about it?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just talk about that one part of the meeting, and then you you gradually build the financial planner's faith in you in being able to talk to clients um without getting too flustered.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I made mistakes along the way, um, but you know, I was quite honest with the financial planner after that.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'd always get feedback.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you want honest feedback, you don't just want to be told that you've done great every time, you want to learn, uh find out things you need to learn from and work on.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, kind of taking the ball by the horns and and doing things in your own doing things yourself, you you can't expect you know, financial planners who've got client books to look after, who've got lots of pressure on them to to you know do their job.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can't expect them to, you know, have a full focus on your career.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's your career.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's your career.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you say grab the ball by the horns, sort of speak to the financial planner, say, look, this is a you know, let me come into the meeting, let me talk about this complex case, let me articulate this, give me a chance to do that.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: That there in turn gives you the experience of client-faced meetings, raises your profile within the business as well as being somebody who can talk about technical sides and becomes a bit of an expert.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: The financial planner almost looks at that as being like, right, okay, well, if you're coming in and talking about that, you can then do the work for me as well, which means it's going to take away their workload.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you're being a team player essentially at the same time.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're not afraid to get your hands dirty and get stuck in.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: You have to raise your profile.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Have to step up and do you know, put yourself out there to be to be noticed within a company.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, how many sort of client meetings did you sit in on before you actually became a financial planner and were they beneficial?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well over a hundred.
• 44:17
  unknown: Really?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well over a hundred client meetings.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so I was going to a lot in so when I became a trainee financial planner, by the end of that sort of process, I was going to most client meetings then with the financial planner I was working with.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and something I was gonna say as well about getting in on those meetings and and why you've got to prove to financial planners that you're capable of taking over parts of the conversation and things like that.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to remember that that the financial planner who's in charge of that relationship with the client, who's got that relationship with the client, it's a risk for them to bring someone in who might get flustered or who might I don't know, say something wrong in a meeting and and or rub client up the wrong way, unintentionally, you know, it's a big risk for them.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got you've really got to prove that to them.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was it was well over a hundred meetings by the time I got um signed off as a financial planner.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's being realistic, having realistic expectations that you're not gonna become a financial planner from the get-go.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's a huge amount of skills that you've got to learn as a financial planner.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it gives a good example of the power planner route being that sort of hybrid, if you like, of um moving you into the trainee advice role.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you can then get in, get in on the client meetings, get the feedback directly from the financial planner, almost being mentored by that financial planner.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and essentially that creates that team as well, doesn't it?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I suppose if I was a client, high net worth, not high net worth client yet, maybe one day.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm a high net, if I was a high net worth client, I'd like to go into a meeting and have a group of people in there, you know, talking to me.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because you guys over InvestTech, you have the investment manager as well, don't you?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got your investment manager, you've got the financial planner, you know, you'd have the power planner.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I as a client, I love the idea of that.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: It makes it feel like a bit like a family office feel, and I can see all the different areas of the business.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it it would then make me think, well, yeah, I'm paying you a decent amount of money per month to manage my money, but I can see in front of me who is actually working on my behalf, and it would give that client confidence, I believe.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's a valuable part of the process being that power planner and you know, you know, being able to articulate exactly the research that's been done and why you're doing it.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and you're right, you know, God, you know, as a financial planner that's worked as not, you know, worked worked the really hard to bring a client on board is going to be slightly nervous, aren't they?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got to build that relationship and rapport with them, first of all, to show that you've got um the characteristics and the um you know the right attitude before you go in there and they risk everything by popping you in front of them because you're having a bad day or you ask a silly question.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, trust is definitely a big part of it, isn't it?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And more so, I suspect, in a company such as InvestTech, where you are dealing with with high net worth clients.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I'd like to ask you, and it'd be good for the listeners as well that perhaps haven't who are thinking about going into a high net worth role, or that's their ambition.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: What do you class a high net worth client to be?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how do you sort of class a high net worth or an ultra high net worth client?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good question.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess anyone that's got investable assets over a million pounds, um, so forget their house and cash and things like that.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they've got investable assets uh of anywhere north of a million pounds, you can put them in that high net worth bracket, I'd say.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, anyone really that's gonna have sort of inheritance tax planning needs or or could not everyone wants to look at inheritance tax planning, but um yeah, I'd I'd say that from an investtech standpoint, is we don't really look at clients as thinking, oh, if they're a high net worth client, that's what we want to deal with.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh from financial planning perspective, we want to work with the clients that we can add maximum value to.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: So as clients, you know, are we looking at tax planning, inheritance tax planning, pensions?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where where can we add the maximum value basically?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um investment managers look after those portfolios uh and then we come in to add the sort of financial planning value to that.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, so you start off in a power, you went in to investigate as a power planner.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: You then were you continuing your qualifications at that stage as well throughout.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: When did when did you end up becoming charters?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um getting charters took me about two years.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so about two years.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: So was that from start to finish, then chartered, or was that are you including like level four in that as well?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, so yeah, I was at I was at ES Walton for a year um and got level four qualified, and two years from joining InvestEc, I was chartered.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: You were chartered.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's really interesting is you you know, you you you you went to you went to school, you did your A levels, you you admitted that you know, for whatever reason you didn't do great on your A levels, didn't go to university yet, you're chartered.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're a chartered financial planner.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I think um that's um refreshing for anyone who is at school or in their A levels or perhaps at university who aren't um as academic as their peers, you know.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they struggle a bit that you can come out and you can do another qualification and and you can pass it and you can become a chartered financial planner.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um was it massively different from A levels?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it yeah, okay.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what getting chartered is a is a I say level four um is you know, you've got five multiple choice papers and a written paper at the end.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it takes it takes a commitment to do your level four qualification, but the commitment level steps up when you go to chartered, definitely.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: The commitment, yeah, it goes up.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when you say commitment level, if you're going to go down the chartered route, um what extra commitments are there?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: What does someone have to prepare for?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I was studying, I I was working 90 or 5, coming home, having my tea, and I do two, three hours studying every evening, um, and probably five hours on a Saturday, five hours on a Sunday.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I was working lots and lots and lots on top of having a full-time job.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a it is a big commitment, um, but for me, worthwhile.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you say it's worthwhile to be chartered and not level four?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: What's the benefit to being chartered over level four?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Charter takes you from so all the technical stuff is cut covered in lots of ways with the level four qualification.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Chartered switches that from you know, getting that knowledge and being able to apply that knowledge to client situations, um, and slightly steps up in the technical aspects.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not it's not it's not a massive step up from a technical standpoint, but it when you're then applying that to client circumstances and client situations, it's very different.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I I just felt it it fine-tuned uh everything that I'd already learned and I was learning on the job.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think everybody should really be chartered?
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that should really be the standard?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me as someone who worked with the type of clients I work with, yes.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I don't I'm not sure it's entirely necessary for every type of every type of client or every type of business.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you could be working with small smaller clients and you get a lot a high net worth client that comes through the door who's got a very complex situation.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'd want to be as best prepared for that as I can.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, exams are not everything.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: You get lots and lots of um your your technical knowledge is most of it, I think, comes from on the job sort of exposure.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think I think it puts you in the best, best position to be able to look after clients personally.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, so went in as a power planner.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: You've um you've you've gone down the trainee route, you've um influenced and won over colleagues and convinced them that you know you're the man to bring into the uh to the client meetings to discuss those technical issues and to help help sort of add value to their their client relationships.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um you then went down the route then of being like almost trainee financial planner.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you what was the transition then?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: So from there to then becoming a a financial planner, how how did that work?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Were you just handed a load of clients or you know, you've ticked a box there, you go, off you go.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what was the transition like from being a trainee financial planner to being a chartered financial planner?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the transition probably started three months before actually getting signed off.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: So um you I spent say it say it was a year that I spent as a trainee financial planner, probably the first nine months, six to nine months, was just more and more of getting as much exposure as possible and and just building on what I already had been.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then by the end of that period, I was leading on a lot of meetings under supervision.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a financial planner there with me, but they were then letting me carry out the whole meeting, a review meeting, sitting in front of new clients.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I got myself to a position where the business was comfortable with me sitting in front of clients, leading meetings, uh, and and then starting the sign-off process.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, probably the last three months of uh being a trainee was that the sign-off process, which is you know, having um sit in front of new clients, do review meetings, uh, and then the advice that you put together in terms of reports is then peer-reviewed and checked by various people in the business.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it was about five five cases, something like that, I needed to have you know checked from start to finish.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it the whole process needed to be reviewed.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I got various bits of feedback on that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and once they then saw that from start to finish I can look after a client relationship uh and give the right advice and and that sort of thing, um, did I get signed off?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: At which point, then yeah, I was I was given a few clients.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still you know taking on clients from from different colleagues uh at this moment in time, but um there was I was allowed to go and you know win new business.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I spent probably yeah, I spent the last sort of however long it's been, 18 months, you know, just go trying to get my name out there and win as much new business as possible.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that transition then of being a trainee, sort of having your hand held, if you like, uh throughout the process, being a power planner and everything, and then moving into a change into a chartered financial planner position where you have to go out and win new business.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I suspect that InvestTech, a big strong name behind you.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there are some existing client relationships within the business that might get passed over to you.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you are going outwardly as well to win new clients.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: How tough is it to win new clients as a financial planner?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's different, it is different at InvestTech.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't uh really I've I've brought on a handful of clients from outside, um, mostly through referrals, actually, not building relationships with um professionals elsewhere.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have an existing book of um uh investment management clients, and our job is to look at those client relationships and see where we can add value.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, what sort of if I an example would be if a client looks like they've got an inheritance tax problem, do the having asking the investment manager to have a conversation, do they want financial planning to be involved and to add value in that way?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and kind of just adding as much value as we can to our existing client book.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find it a challenge then, being a financial planner and having an investment management team?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because an investment manager will have his own, his or her own clients, yeah, essentially, but their own book of clients and they've built relationships with them and they manage their investments.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got a financial planner who perhaps doesn't, again, it's a bit like your power planner experience where you don't actually hold the relationship with the client of that investment manager, do you?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: The investment manager held held that relationship.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, was there was there any kind of you know, is there friction in that type of relationship, or do does one hand wash the other?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it you know, can you see the benefit?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a clear benefit to the investment manager, a clear benefit to the financial planner, and you guys come together and are a dream team?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how it works?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think maybe historically in the past, when that you know, when financial planning first got involved with the business, there might have been that kind of friction.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: But investment managers, you know, they're very highly qualified and they're very skilled, and they ultimately, especially our ethos is break China for the client and give as much as you can to a client.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if an investment manager sees an opportunity to add value to that client and to do the right thing for the client, they do it 10 times out of 10.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it's all of the sort of client relationship side of things uh is you know, you're solidifying that relationship more if you have financial planner involved in a way.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because an external financial planner doesn't need to get involved.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're you know, you're all of the value is being added from InvestDeck.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it there's a benefit to the investment manager in terms of the relationship, they're not going to get paid more because they're introducing financial planning.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Investdech doesn't work like that.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: We are um you know, sort of judged by the total value that we offer to the business and to the client.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just another added, it's another added benefit.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not just investment management, it's financial planning on top.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not getting charged anymore, it's just a value-added service.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: Historically, I assume that they would have just outsourced it to a you know, a different financial planner if there was a financial planning need, but instead keep it in-house, and there we go, you've got your investment manager with it.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: There is just there is an added cost.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you pay for investment management and you pay for financial planning current.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, there's the there's an added cost for financial planning to be brought into the relationship, but there's an added benefit, there's an added value, um, a quite significant value, I feel, that that we add.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and we don't we don't just, you know, we don't get involved in every client relationship, we don't get involved where we're not needed.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna, you know, clients aren't gonna have to pay for financial planning where it's it's not necessary.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, where they do, yeah, no, not at all.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Where where they do, where we want, like I said earlier, we want to, as financial planning, add maximum value, which is why we don't class, you know, we don't treat, I don't know, a 10 million pound client different to a 1 million pound client.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: We it we treat everyone exactly the same, um, and just try and add as much value to that client as possible.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're working as a chartered financial planner for two and a half years, fully qualified, off out on your own, doing your own thing, you know, nobody standing over you or anything like that.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you you you've made it.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: You you you'd achieve what you you set out to achieve when you made that decision over in Dubai that you wanted to be a financial planner.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that took, you know, what, nearly six years to get that to that kind of level, to get to a chartered level.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you were 23 years old when you first embarked on that journey, up until the age of like 29.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: How is that right, right?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: About 29 you became chartered?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, sorry, I got I got chartered three years ago.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh three years ago, okay.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what was that?
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it probably took three and a half, three and a half years to get chartered from that first day at AAS in Dubai.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, took about three and a half years to get chartered, um, and then got on the sort of career pathway of a financial planner about the what once I got chartered, I was kind of put on that pathway.
• 1:00:51
  unknown: Cool.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: So three three and a half, yeah.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there we go, brilliant.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: Three and a half years to become chartered within your journey within financial planning.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your experience, you got exposed to it in Dubai, working in the administration, you come back to the UK, you got stuck into um a smaller boutique financial planning company that's offering true financial planning, did your qualifications, you know, you worked hard uh to do that in the evenings and to do it um, you know, what you know, and to do the job itself and be mentored at ES Walton, got your head turned, got yourself into to invest that because you wanted to work with high net worth clients.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Again, starting in that power planning position, there wasn't a clear career path that was available to you.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't say you're going to be a financial planner.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, it was a 12-month maternity uh cover.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: And but you know, it was the experience and the exposure that you needed to get on your CV to get you into that high net worth arena that would help you progress your career.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Once you, you know, we we always established as well that by getting PowerPlanner on your CV, that got you noticed more by recruitment companies, it got you noticed more by other companies.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a great stepping stone and to realizing really that you had a skill that was in need.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: You got yourself into power planning.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: From there, you influenced the advisors, the financial planners, you became sort of got yourself noticed within the business, you raised your profile as being an expert in certain key areas, and you were asking to get yourself in those meetings with clients.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: You were saying, look, let me come in, I can add value at this level, I could talk about this complex case.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and as you mentioned, you know, you didn't just jump straight into a financial planner position.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: You had near enough a hundred face-to-face meetings as a power planner before you even then became a financial advisor.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: And all at the same time, you were studying towards your chartered as well.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: So in three and a half years of embarking on your journey, you then became chartered in InvestTech.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: So what that shows to me is that anybody really, with a bit of drive and a bit of ambition, um, if they put their minds to it, you know, without any experience, without a degree or anything along those lines, as you said, you didn't do great in your A levels.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: In three and a half years, you can become a chartered financial planner working for one of the, you know, one of the world-renowned uh investment management companies, Invest Tech, as a chartered financial planner.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a pathway there, there is a route in, you know, you can do it.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not, it's not difficult to not say it's not difficult.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard work, it's graft, but if you want to do it, you can do it.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and and the reality is you've got to work your way up, but it can be done incredibly quickly.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: I suspect you probably saw a shift in your earnings as well.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, not everybody wants to talk about earnings, not going to go into the the you know the minute detail of what you earn, but I suspect you probably saw a jump in salary as well throughout that, throughout your period of of short period of working within financial planning.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: Would you agree that?
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is it has it definitely?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, total earnings is definitely significantly more than when I first started in the industry.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and again, you know, did you have that in the back of your mind that the your earnings would go up so high in such a short period of time?
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Are you quite surprised, or did you think, oh no, that's definitely gonna happen?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I kind of you you have a loose idea of what your earning potential is.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've always felt that um like the money hasn't been the main focus.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I want to earn well.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm ambitious, I want to earn well.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I want to travel and do all the sorts of things that come comes with that.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess I have always seen the money side of things as just a byproduct of progression and of development.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: And try and, you know, if I want to be paid more, I'm always I probably will, no matter what, for the rest of my life, want to be paid more.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in order to do that, I can't I can't just expect to be paid more.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: I can't have that expectation.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: I need to, you know, I need to be doing more every day.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of the mentality I have.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and the way you've done that really is to establish a need.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you're looking around you, you're looking within the business and you're seeing where you can add value.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that's a definitely a um a solid bit of advice to anybody within any any business, really, especially within financial planning, is look, don't just sit on your, don't rest on your laurels waiting for something to land on your lap, make your own luck and um influence those around you, see where that you can add value within the business and um see what raises your profile.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: And clearly, you know, clearly it what it works for you because your journey doesn't really stop there, does it?
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: You became a chartered financial planner doing that for the last so took two and a half years, and recently you've become one of the associate directors at Investec.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for me, adding I try and split my um my focus in two, really.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: Probably 70, 80 percent is you know applying or giving as much value to clients as I can.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's my main focus, that's what I'm paid to do.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also see myself as someone who should try and I think everyone should try and add as much value to the business as possible.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I try and get involved in as many um you know discussion groups, uh projects that I that I can get involved in that I feel I can add some value to.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: So adding value to the business itself operationally or or however you'd want to phrase it is also a focus of mine.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably why I've you know my progression's been good in terms of becoming a financial planner but the things that I contribute to in the office and to the business I think is probably what's justified the promotion.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see yourself like from a future perspective then do you see yourself being more of um in more of a controls, not controls role but more in more of a a leadership position um in in Vestech?
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: So is that like you know from an ambition perspective because how how old are you at the moment?
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: Just out of vintage I know you should never ask that question but I'm gonna how old are you at the moment?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: 29.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: 29.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: So what a great you know that's again it's just it's inspiring to hear somebody who's gone through their 20s um all the way up to you know associate director director level so you've obviously clearly got some great ambition.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: So do you see yourself within a role more like management or you know um yeah like management or driving the business forward influencing how the business changes that kind of stuff as well as financial planning.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is that your kind of pathway?
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I I'd I'd hope so I think the aim for me is leadership and and management um but ultimately in order to for the business to let me do that I've got to be the best financial planner I could possibly be and I've got you know I've got to do all the right things between now and then um so I I I think making steps towards that has almost got to be extracurricular.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to do that kind of in my own time or find time that doesn't impact detrimentally to my client bank and and what I'm doing there.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah ultimately that's that's where I'd like my career to go.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: I really like the idea of um being able to you know I said earlier earlier in the call that I'm passionate about new talent in the industry and things like that.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to look back on my career when the the final day comes and say you know I've had a massive impact on clients I've you know hopefully changed the lives of many clients and and their children and things like that but also within the business you know left my stamp and uh and had an impact that's helped colleagues and the business uh in terms of adding value there too what would you have done differently up to this up to this date so throughout your career what might you have done differently uh communicated my ambition differently okay um I think I've come across a bit too pushy sometimes um you know I'm very competitive very ambitious and having sitting down and thinking before I approach someone about how quickly things are going that sort of stuff um and doing things in the right way I've probably made mistakes there in the past and you know it hasn't held me back it hasn't but and it's important to demonstrate and explain and and articulate um to the people who are making decisions on your future um it's important to do that but getting the balance right and not coming across as entitled or and whatever you know have it I think to summarize having um you kind of need to just abandon any sense of entitlement you know becoming a chartered financial planner from a qualifications point of view doesn't make you a financial planner it doesn't make you the best financial planner out there you know it's everything else that comes with it so abandoning any sense of entitlement uh and just gritting your teeth and and getting into it.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: Cool so really kind of also maybe perhaps managing your expectations and the expectation the expectations of of of others really as well because you know yeah you're full of ambition and you drive and you want to get to where you want to get to but sometimes someone else might not be thinking that way.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So how you articulate it should be again with a little bit of patience perhaps um an understanding of that uh that journey and how long it can take and that other people are working at different levels.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: One of the biggest things I had to learn was like my expectations of other people were just ridiculous because I was like well I can do it you do it or you know I want it now I want it now and I think that just comes with ambition isn't it it's deadly you know it can can come with ambition but um I think sometimes you've got to sit back and relax and realize that um other people are other people and they work their way don't they they definitely they have their own um their own agenda as well they've got their own lives going on not just yours so a little less a little less of self and more of others is always a good thing I think and um sharing and thinking about other people is a good thing.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: All right amazing so um you know yeah brilliant look you're absolutely I think um what it shows to any listener listening to us at the moment is you know you can as I said to you earlier I summarized you can you can you can start you know as an administrator and have that ambition in your head that you want to become a financial planner.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be put off by the fact you don't have qualifications from school or anything like that.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Get stuck into a career that you want to actually do.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're interested in financial planning write well what's my route get stuck in at the grassroots level do a bit of administration get into a power planning position each of those roles give you the skill set and the understanding of the process and what to expect from it.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Influence those around you a little pinch of ambition goes a long way um and then start to work your way up through different companies and there are other opportunities that are out there that can turn your head so it's worth listening to those opportunities to see what they're like because you never know it might be something that opens the door to the the the doorway you know the the the route that you want to go down um a lot quicker than perhaps just sitting there and waiting for something to land on your lap.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know sometimes you have to take you have to take control and I think there's a lot of fear around that people like well I don't know if I should or I shouldn't or it's like no just get stuck in and make your own luck because ultimately what I understand when I speak to financial planners they're incredibly busy.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be making their life easier so for example from my perspective I'm recruiting for a company they don't want to deal with going through loads of CVs they don't want to deal with me phoning them up every two seconds what they just really want is me to put a shit hot candidate in front of them pre-prepared so when they go in there they go right yeah amazing right you know an hour and an hour and a half or something like that.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit like that for a financial planner isn't it they don't want to have to constantly be dragged into meetings or you know drained of energy they want somebody who's got that spark and enthusiasm that wants to train that wants to do their qualifications looks for those extracurricular activities invests their personal time in their development and um adds value adds value at the end of the day and I think anybody who can see that in an employee will go yeah do you know what come and come and sit with me I'll happily happily tell you a little bit more about what I do I'll happily get you involved with my clients because hey they can see the value but they they they can see the ambition and the enthusiasm in that individual as well so I think you're a prime example of that and not everybody follows that path and the entitlement side of it is a really good thing that you raised there.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think some people think it should just come to them but actually it's that's not the case you should you you make your own I think you make your own luck you know push yourself forward and put yourself forward to things and things will good things will happen.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and the other piece of advice that I give as well is around the power planner and financial planner role um you know I am very ambitious and I like to think 10 years ahead and that's that kind of thing but not everyone's like that.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think don't be put off by coming into the industry thinking you know I I have to ultimately become a financial planner.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to make that decision early on you can become a power planner you can get all the skills you need to become a financial planner and later on down the line you can decide do I want to sit in front of clients or do I want to I want to carry on being a power which is a career in its own right which is you know just as fulfilling actually as being a financial planner.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're just not directly involved with those relationships.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes you actually are you know there's we I have we have power planners on our team that regularly speak to clients clients know by first name um and they have a lot of interaction with but ultimately they they are the decision maker um and that could that does come with an added level level of you know stress uh and importance but um yeah I I'd say you don't necessarily have to make your decision from day one I want to be a financial planner.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is an industry where you can kind of take sideways steps.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you became you can you could do all that become a financial planner and go, do you know what this isn't right for me.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_00: But actually you've got all the qualifications you need to be a highly paid power planner.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think no there's the the industry itself is starting to you know take a really good shape I think if when you compare to other professional services um and there's lots and lots of options available to people.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely right there is lots of options and I think um taking that you know people always think that you know the financial planner is the be all and end all and I think um I think again that's kind of down to earning potential um you know it is quite clear that you can earn more as a financial planner whether you're employed or whether you're self-employed and I mean employed to self-employed massive massive difference you know you can earn so much more as a self-employed advisor but we're going down the self-employed advisor route there's a hell of a lot more hats to wear and it's a different type of type of situation.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Power planner perhaps you're capped your earnings can be capped you know so I think it's that again it's down to that individual's um ambition isn't it at the end of the day but not to overlook really who you are as a person and what you enjoy because I think um that's a big part of it because I imagine you know when you're in a role of a financial planner it it it has a different level of stress um and um responsibility perhaps that say power planning has um you know and different targets different responsibilities different expectations um and I think that can sometimes um make the massive difference and if someone's not into that into that business development side or uh extrovert side they're quite introvert then perhaps they they're more analytical perhaps are suited more to a power planning position even though they think they want to be a power plan be a financial advisor it's like well look at your skill set have you done much around that have you ever done any kind of tests at all around as assessing who your you know what your skill set is or anything uh yeah I did I did something recently I just personally online and we've done a few things bits and rocks in in in the office um you know these things that fit you into different categories as like a driver as a um an extrovert that those sorts of categories and um personally I've always gone into that those two the extrovert sort of driver type categories um and I think that's actually a useful thing to do um just to you know you can have this preconceived of idea of who you think you are um but actually what when you go through these sort of tests and assessments it can give you something you might be surprised by I know certain certainly some people that um I've worked with have been surprised by the sort of outcomes they get from it.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I think so I don't yeah we we did it in our office there's a really good one called 16 personalities that's free on the internet that's really good.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone wants to do that actually if anyone wants to do that and then they want the premium version just send me an email because I'll give you the premium version I've got the the premium version you get a full breakdown of your personality skill sets and all that kind of stuff really good.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: All right amazing so um Jonathan that's um I think that's a good insight into your career good insight into how you got into it good insight to where you are now um one final question financial planning and technology mainly things like robo advice apps that kind of thing do you think that's a threat to financial planning or do you think the two can go hand in hand I think the two can go hand in hand.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think we probably overread how much of a need there is for robo advice you know there's a lot of robo advice type businesses that have uh that have gone out there and um the take up of them hasn't quite been what people have expected.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the demand for financial planning is growing so much that it's not going to have too much you know we've got um an issue in uh as in the financial planning arena of the age of the average the average age of a financial planner you know there's gonna be there's gonna be a bit of a gap somewhere and people are going to need more and more advice uh the more complex tax um the more ta complex you know sort of tax structures are in place and yeah I just don't I I I personally I'm I'm not worried about the future of uh of advice at all I feel very optimistic yeah you know I feel very optimistic about it you're not seeing a slowdown in it you're probably seeing an increase in it I think the more com the more people are going to inherit money as well there's gonna be a hell of a lot more inheritance higher amounts of inheritance coming through as well yeah the transfer of wealth I think over the next yeah uh 10 years 20 years is enormous.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's huge huge potential there isn't there so somebody thinking about getting into financial planning sort of thinking well technology will take over that yeah so many so many tech companies get set up but none of them I think a lot of them are again it's aimed at that middle England market that maybe you're getting you know they used to go to their bank to get a little bit of financial advice but you know if you've got five grand ten grand to invest you might just want to chuck it into a you know stocks and shares ISO or something you can do that yourself and it's a bit of fun as well um uh but um probably not the best advice to give people coming from me a recruitment consultant yeah just chuck it in a chuck it in an ISA you know stocks and shares are a bit of fun but um I think people kind of think they're a bit savvy around that don't they and there's a there's certain risks involved in that obviously all right amazing well um listen thank you so much for your time today I appreciate that and um I'll um we'll get that all published and um we'll see what uh see what the listeners think.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Nice one Jonathan thank you mate