Latest / Mini Scroll / MINI SCROLL: Melanie Martinez & Timothy Heller breakdown + Nara Smith accused of copying Marc Jacobs TikTok concept

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MINI SCROLL: Melanie Martinez & Timothy Heller breakdown + Nara Smith accused of copying Marc Jacobs TikTok concept · Mini Scroll

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  Hi everyone, welcome to Mini Scroll, the daily Internet
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  culture podcast bringing you the biggest stories from social
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  media, the creator economy, and the digital space every Monday
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  through Thursday. I'm your host, Lauren Meisner,
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  the founder of the youth digital media brand Centennial World.
• 0:17
  Welcome back to Mini Scroll, everyone.
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  I got my hair done this morning, which is why this episode is a
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  little bit late and also why my hair probably hopefully looks
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  amazing. All right, I have two stories
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  for you guys today. But first I wanted to say we are
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  only 1000 subscribers off now from hitting 5000.
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  So I said yesterday, my goal for the end of the week is to hit
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  5000 subscribers on the YouTube. The YouTube, I sound like a
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  boomer, but you know what I mean on the YouTube channel and we're
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  really close to that. So please hit that subscribe.
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  If you guys like the podcast, the most helpful thing that you
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  can actually do is share it. So like putting it on your
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  stories or I don't know, sharing it on Reddit or something like
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  that, it helps so much you would not believe.
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  So if you guys like the pod, please consider sharing.
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  I know that's kind of like an archaic tactic.
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  Like I know a lot of people used to share podcast episodes and
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  podcasts just in general like shows years ago and that's how a
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  lot of the bigger podcasts started to grow.
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  But it really does make a huge difference.
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  Obviously word of mouth and sharing things privately as
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  well, but it like sharing it publicly, it helps so much.
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  So please, please do that. If you guys like it, it will
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  help me a lot. OK?
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  The first story that I have for you guys is I'm going to be
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  breaking down the controversy between Melanie Martinez and
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  Timothy Heller. And if you followed either of
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  them back in the day, then this might sound like a throwback,
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  but there have been recent developments this week because
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  Timothy actually posted a very long TikTok explaining the whole
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  situation and what her life has been like since she spoke out
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  against Melanie in 2017. So this story is going to take
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  us back to 2017 and then I will talk about the recent
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  developments. Wow, I said that so Canadian
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  talk about talk about the recent developments.
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  OK, so Melanie Martinez is a 29 year old singer-songwriter.
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  She rose to fame after appearing on The Voice and she also became
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  really popular on TikTok around 2021.
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  I do not really follow Melanie and I don't know her music.
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  I didn't know this story before I decided to cover it.
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  But I had heard her name before. So she's like relatively famous.
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  So in 2017, singer Timothy Heller tweeted an allegation
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  against a friend writing quote. What if I have my own story of
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  abuse but I'm scared to ruin the persons life and I still love
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  them in a fucked up way and the public really loves them and
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  most probably won't believe me. So this tweet was unprovoked.
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  It was just written, left out on Twitter now X.
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  And people were like, what? One month later?
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  She then clarified that her tweet was about Melanie
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  Martinez. She wrote, quote, when I wrote
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  this story about my assault, I initially wasn't going to make
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  the abuser, but I think it's important for you all to know
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  this is about Melanie Martinez. And then she posted, yeah,
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  essentially like a story of what happened to her.
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  So in this story, she explained that Melanie was her best
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  friend, and over the course of their friendship, Melanie's
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  quote, power and control over me grew and grew.
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  She said during a sleepover that they were having one night,
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  Melanie started asking her about her sexual preferences, even
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  though Timothy actually had a boyfriend at the time, and
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  Melanie repeatedly asked Timothy, allegedly if she would
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  sleep with her. Timothy said no and then she
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  says that she was molested by Melanie.
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  So this accusation spawned the hashtag Melanie Martinez.
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  This over party on Twitter and fans began getting rid of their
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  merch and posting it online. You know, when somebody kind of
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  goes through a controversy or a scandal and their fans will show
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  themselves, like throwing at their merch or burning their
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  merch or whatever, stuff like that was happening.
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  And then, according to Sam Hargrave for The Direct, Melanie
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  responded to Timothy's claims at the time.
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  So Melanie apparently responded a couple days later in her own
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  statement. So she said, I'm horrified and
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  saddened by the statements and story told tonight by Timothy
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  Heller. What she and I shared was a
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  close friendship for a period of time.
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  We came into each other's lives as we were both starting our
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  careers as artists and we tried to help each other.
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  We both had pain in dealing with our individual demons and the
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  new paths we were forging. But I truly felt like we were
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  trying to lift each other up. OK.
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  So even though Melanie said she never said no, like obviously
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  admitting that something happened and, you know, kind of
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  there's, there's a red flag, big red flags there by saying in a
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  statement, she didn't say no big red flags.
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  Despite this, however, Melanie's supporters decided that they
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  were basically going to go on, you know, an Internet tirade and
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  try and invalidate or discredit Timothy's claims.
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  So one of the things that they discovered that ended up like,
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  quote, UN quote, discrediting this claim is that in an
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  interview with the Daily Mail, Timothy gave a date as to when
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  the alleged assault happened. And they discovered Internet
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  sleuths discovered going back on Instagram photos and things like
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  that, that it appeared that the two women were actually in
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  completely different states at the time that she claims that
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  this assault happened. So that then flipped the
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  narrative from Melanie Martinez is over to basically Timothy is
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  over. And when Melanie's fans
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  discovered this and this started getting posted all over
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  Instagram, Melanie responded. She actually made her own
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  statement she wrote. I understand how hard it could
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  be to see my side of the story, considering no one with a heart
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  would want to invalidate anyone speaking up about this topic.
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  I want to thank my fans who took the time to research the
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  timeline, analyze past Instagram photos, and question the story
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  being told which reveal her false statements.
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  I trusted so many people in my life who took advantage of that
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  trust for their own personal gain.
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  So Melanie making this statement, obviously, it's like
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  giving her fans a Gold Star. It's like giving those crazy
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  stands like they're her stamp of approval, you know?
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  So this just turned the whole situation so far against Timothy
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  and her comments were flooded by hate.
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  She was accused of using Melanie's name for clout and you
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  know, fame chasing basically with this accusation.
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  And she basically went dormant, like Timothy basically went
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  dormant online for years, like since 2017.
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  And then this week she reappeared.
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  She made a lengthy TikTok video talking about what that
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  experience was like. She basically said she was
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  effectively run off the Internet after sharing her experience
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  with Melanie. She said speaking out against
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  her abuser ruined her life. But hearing Melanie admit that
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  something did happen between the two of them.
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  When she said, you know, I she never said no to me or whatever.
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  That was somewhat validating because it was her admitting
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  that like something happened. She said she was excessively
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  quote, gas lit into thinking that was a bad person by the
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  Internet. And then she did explain the
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  date mix up. She said that she was asked by
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  Daily Mail to give a date on the alleged assault.
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  So she looked at her camera roll to figure it out and she kind of
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  correlated the date to the photo.
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  However, she didn't realize that the photo she was looking at was
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  a screenshot. So the date was like a
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  screenshot of a photo. So the date that was appearing
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  was like the day that she screenshotted the photo, I
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  believe. Either way, she's claiming that
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  it was like a screenshot inside her camera roll and not the
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  actual photo that she looked at when she was referencing the
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  date. But regardless, she talks about
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  how speaking out against Melanie put her friends and family in
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  danger. They got docked, they got
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  harassed, and it all led to her basically quitting music.
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  She said she lost all of her sponsorship opportunities and
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  she had to completely change careers.
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  So she decided to go into sex work and she said that was also
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  not a great experience because she said people found her sex
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  work content and they were posting it without her consent
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  and mocking her and hacking her accounts.
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  She said every single account that she had like literally on
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  the Internet was hacked except for her bank account.
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  So I know that this whole back and forth is still very debated.
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  I'm not here to debate like what happened.
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  I think this is very much a lesson for us in toxic Stan
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  culture, toxic fandom, and how pretty often I would say the
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  celebrities, whether they mean to or not, like stoke those
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  flames. I mean, we talked about that a
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  lot. I think it was at the beginning
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  of last year when the Hailey Bieber, Selena Gomez, Kylie
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  Jenner, like the eyebrow gate situation happened.
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  And it felt like Selena was kind of like stocking those flames
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  with her fans and like getting her fans to like, indirectly go
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  after Haley and indirectly stand up for her by like her giving
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  them a pat on the back and saying like, thank you so much.
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  I love you guys for what they were doing.
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  So I think it's important for us to watch out for that.
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  The way that Melanie Martinez like, thanked her fans and was
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  like, you guys did all this digging, like, you know, you put
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  your FBI hats on and you figured it out for me.
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  That's really toxic. Like that's feeding that
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  parasocial relationship with them.
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  That's giving them a Gold Star. It's, it's almost like giving
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  them a, the go ahead to look into her further because she's
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  like, thank you for looking into this for me.
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  And then they all went and basically like doxed this woman
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  off the Internet for seven years.
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  So at the time of recording, Melanie has not responded to
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  Timothy's video and I believe Timothy has actually deleted her
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  video. I couldn't find the original on
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  TikTok, but it is like reposted here and there, but I couldn't
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  find the original. All right.
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  And the second story that I have for you guys today is that Nara
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  Smith has now been accused of copying her Marc Jacobs ad.
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  A couple of days after the Internet praised Marc Jacobs and
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  Nara Smith for their tote bag collaboration, TikTok, the
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  creator is coming under fire for allegedly copying the concept
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  from a smaller creator and designer named Mary Corlyn
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  Downs. So in case you missed it, Nara
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  Smith did a collaboration with Marc Jacobs where she basically
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  made a Marc Jacobs tote bag, like a red tote bag from
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  scratch. I actually talked about it, I
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  think it was on yesterday's episode because I was like, this
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  is so cool. And then I saw all the stuff
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  come out after I published that. And I was like, OK, interesting.
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  So it's just like a Nara Smith video.
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  It's exact. It's filmed exactly like a Nara
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  Smith video. You know, she is in her kitchen
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  and she's mixing baking ingredients to make something
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  from scratch. And then she rolls out the dough
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  and it's red because she put red coloring in the dough and then
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  molds it. I guess we're supposed to assume
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  she molds it into like a tiny little red tote bag.
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  And then she puts it in the oven and then she takes it out of the
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  oven and it is a full-sized red Marc Jacobs tote.
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  And then she puts it on and everyone's like, Oh my God, this
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  is like so good. This is how you do UGC.
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  Like, you know, so now Mary, this creator is saying that Nara
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  and or Marc Jacobs copied her concept.
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  Mary basically made a video back in December that is very
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  similar. So she's like in her kitchen
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  mixing ingredients. And the first thing she makes in
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  this video is a striped tank top.
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  And then the second thing is she puts a cherry, I believe it was
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  a cherry in the oven. And then she, you know, takes it
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  out as if it's baked and it turns into a red Marc Jacobs
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  tote, like the tote that Nara Smith was using.
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  So people started commenting on Nas video anyways being like
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  this was copied and then yeah she made her own video.
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  She played her old video in the background and then she wrote
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  over it saying so since everyone in Marc Jacobs comments are
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  saying MJ and Nara are creative slash marketing geniuses, does
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  that mean I am the creative slash marketing genius?
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  And if so you might be interested to know.
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  I run my own design and creative agency trying to work together.
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  Question mark. So people were not sure how they
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  felt I think about this video and she started responding to
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  comments with different videos and in one of her videos, she
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  followed up by saying she feels like Nara took two of her video
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  concepts and combined them to create the Marc Jacobs ad.
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  OK, so this whole situation is very divisive, I would say
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  mostly because it's a paid campaign.
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  So Nara obviously got paid by Marc Jacobs for this.
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  And if the concept was stolen or like heavily inspired, I
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  understand, Like it does feel icky.
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  Like if this was if this idea genuinely came out of nowhere in
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  Mary's brain and then they saw it and hired Nara Smith to do it
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  instead of Mary, I understand. Like that feels icky because
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  it's a paid campaign and Nara Smith is so buzzy.
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  She's so famous I can only imagine how much she got paid
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  for that. However, I think there's a few
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  other things to consider here with this.
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  So I would actually say it is more likely that Marc Jacobs
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  found the video than Nara finding the video.
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  I think that's for two reasons. One, we know that Marc Jacobs is
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  on the pulse with niche creators, and Mary is a niche
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  creator, you know, So I think it's more likely that Marc
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  Jacobs knows about her or has kept tabs on her possibly if she
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  is creating interesting content like this as a designer.
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  And they saw this video #2 The reason why I think that is
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  because it is common in influencing and media even when
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  you're creating videos like this to get sent links as examples of
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  content to like inspire you for the campaign that you will be
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  working on with the brand. So I wouldn't be surprised if
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  Marc Jacobs sent some examples like this to Nara.
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  I think the other thing to consider here is that it may
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  have been an original idea for Mary, but it's not an original
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  concept. Someone actually tagged a very
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  small jewelry brand in one of her comments, like in one of her
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  comments sections on one of her videos.
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  And then I went to that jewelry brand and they had a video from
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  2020 where they basically like put a bunch of baking
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  ingredients together in a bowl and put it in the oven and then
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  it turned into a diamond ring. So, you know, that's just one
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  example from 20/20, which was obviously years before Mary made
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  her video. And then other people were
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  comparing it to Beauty Bakery, which was Beauty brand.
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  I don't think they exist anymore, But that was like, you
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  know, they were Beauty Bakery. Like they, their whole thing was
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  that it was based off of like kitschy cute kitchen stuff.
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  And a lot of their social concepts were based on like them
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  cooking or baking the products. And so like this might have been
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  an original idea from Mary's brain.
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  She actually might have never seen this before, but it's not
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  necessarily an original concept. And I think we've talked about
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  this on the podcast before, but there was like no original
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  ideas. And that's kind of what art is
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  all about, right? We actually, I think we talked
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  about it in relation to Olivia Rodrigo because when she came
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  out with gut, no, not guts sour, you know how she had to give all
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  those writing credits to all these different artists?
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  And then there was one like rock star, I forget who he was.
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  He's like in his 70s or something.
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  And people were like, Olivia has obviously sampled or taken like
• 15:00
  too much inspiration from this one rock song.
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  And the artist, Oh my God, I'm sorry.
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  I wish I remembered who it was. But he was like the only one out
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  of like everyone that was accusing her of taking different
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  samples and things who was like, no, I'm not going to ask for
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  writing credits. That's what music is all about,
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  is like hearing something and being so inspired by it and
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  taking it and mixing it and creating your own art from that.
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  And I thought that was such an interesting take because we are
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  in the world. I mean, I think it's just like
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  the digital age, Like you just have to be so conscious of your
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  IP and so protective of it. I totally get it.
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  But I do think sometimes we've like lost the plot with like
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  what art is supposed to be. But I think regardless of the
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  situation, and I feel for Mary, like I feel for small creators.
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  I have a small media brand and I see things all the time where
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  I'm like, I feel like that person or that journalist has
• 15:52
  like taken our content or taken our ideas and spun it.
• 15:55
  And now they're getting way more clout for it, way more
• 15:57
  recognition. And I do think that's just kind
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  of like the nature of the Internet.
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  However, it's also very much the nature of TikTok.
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  And I think that this whole situation brings up an
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  interesting discussion around that because the function of
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  TikTok, like the point of TikTok quite literally is to take
• 16:15
  sounds and dances and trends and do them yourself and like jump
• 16:20
  in on it. It's all about like sharing
• 16:21
  creativity and putting your own spin on other people's ideas and
• 16:26
  music and sounds and trends. On one hand, it does make it so
• 16:31
  that there are a lot of issues with crediting creators.
• 16:35
  You know, that was a huge issue at the very beginning of the app
• 16:38
  when dancing was so popular is like it was a lot of black
• 16:41
  creators that were creating these dances.
• 16:43
  And then these white creators like Charlie and Addison and all
• 16:46
  those like early Tik Tokers were doing those dances without dance
• 16:50
  credit and they were gaining so many followers.
• 16:52
  And then all of these creators who were actually creating the
• 16:54
  dances got basically no recognition.
• 16:57
  So it is like a very much like an ongoing problem, But I think
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  there will always be that problem on TikTok because that
• 17:04
  is literally the nature of the app.
• 17:05
  Like that is the point of the app is to, I mean, if you think
• 17:09
  about the functions, even like the, the different features, I
• 17:11
  mean that the app has launched like Stitch and Duet, like it's
• 17:14
  all about taking other people's ideas and adding you adding to
• 17:20
  them or you putting your own spin on them.
• 17:22
  So that is kind of the nature of TikTok.
• 17:24
  I think with this particular situation, the point that makes
• 17:29
  it feel icky is that, I mean, we'll never know.
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  We'll never know if Nara thought, we'll never know if
• 17:34
  Marc Jacobs saw this. But I do think the point or what
• 17:37
  makes this specific case different is that Nara was
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  obviously paid for this campaign.
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  She is not just like jumping on a trend and creating something
• 17:46
  without credit. Like she also got compensated
• 17:49
  for that. So that's that on that guys.
• 17:53
  Thank you so much for listening to Mini scroll today.
• 17:55
  I hope you like this podcast episode.
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  I hope you like this podcast. Please rate, review and
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  subscribe. Please subscribe to YouTube.
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  Please share the podcast. I love you guys and I will talk
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  to you tomorrow. Bye.