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How to Teach our Children About Money with Will Rainey · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Will Rainey from BlueTreeSavings.com, a website dedicated to financial education for kids.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Will is coming on the podcast today to talk about his brand new book that he has released just in time for Christmas, The Financial Planners to Give to Their Clients.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Grandpa's Fortune Fables, and it empowers parents to sit down with their children and provide solid financial education in easily digestible form.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fantastic book.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've gone through it with my own daughter, who's five and a half years old.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: She absolutely loves it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: As a financial planner, this really needs to be on your Christmas list for both you and your clients.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Will, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, my man?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing really, really well, thanks.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a, as I said before, and when we spoke earlier, I'm in Vietnam.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: So as I'm talking to you, I'm looking over the rice paddy fields and I can see some uh water buffalo sort of having a little bath.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So a bit different from my life back in the UK.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds amazing.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love Vietnam.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I traveled quite a bit around Vietnam.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you're in Huian then, aren't you?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So central Vietnam for those who don't know.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, that's beautiful little town, colonial, French colonial sort of town.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful, a bit quiet now because it's no tourists, but no, it's definitely different world from the UK.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I liked about Vietnam.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Vietnam and the French, wasn't it?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: The French colonial buildings and everything are really, really beautiful.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same with Lao Lao as well.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Was it Luang Pabang?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is, or somewhere around there, but it's beautiful, um, beautiful French colonial buildings.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember like about 12, 13 years ago now, but I traveled around there and it was like a couple of dollars for an amazing room in like this old French colonial building.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: They've got all these like lanterns that they put across the old town and they play like kind of music as well.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very picturesque.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, very, very interesting then.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So your background is financial services.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've worked in the UK and you and you've worked in Asia.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: How come you ended up settling in Vietnam?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just sort of run us through a little bit of background of your your career briefly and how you ended up in in Asia?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, so I'm an actory by background, so I was advising sort of mostly pension schemes in the UK.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So where to put their investments in their investment strategy.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then in 2014, got the opportunity with that company to go to Hong Kong to head up their investment strategy team for Asia.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I did that with my young family.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was traveling around Asia, going on little holidays, some for work.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we kind of fell in love with where we are now.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I really enjoyed working in um in Hong Kong, doing the clients, doing again, same kind of bits.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking to not just pension schemes, but insurance companies and government entities.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, enjoyed that.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then we just I was just talking to someone probably around 2017, and it was talking about my two young daughters, and they said, Oh, enjoy this time, they only grow up once, which is kind of obvious statement, but it had a big impact on me.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, yeah, you're right.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want to make the most of this.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so we were always planning on going back to the UK at some point, and we thought, right, before we go back to the UK, why don't we take some time off full-time corporate work, go and do a bit of an adventure, then move back to the UK?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what we did.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we felt we loved Hawaiian where we are now, it's so relaxed.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: The people are really friendly, food's amazing.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Let's come here and settle down in Hawaiian for a few years, have a bit of a life experience for both us and our kids, and I'll try and do something productive while the kids are at school.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I've been doing in terms of what we're going to be talking about.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm very jealous.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to be able to do that.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So upsticks and off I go to Asia.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: How old are your kids and when you when you moved?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's two years ago, so they would have been seven, five and seven.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Five and seven, yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So my daughter's my daughter's five and a half.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I can I can do that, couldn't I?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I could just I I I off I go to to to Asia and set my podcast up and just do my recruitment from Asia, couldn't I?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, if people can do it, I strongly recommend it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't come on people's agenda.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when my I first sort of floated the idea to my wife, yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: The first reservation was like, but no one else does this.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's true, it doesn't come on people's agenda.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then once we started talking about it and doing a bit more and making it a reality, it's like, why don't more people do this?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which is again a bit why I started doing what I'm doing now.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully more people will be in the future.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So your background then is is is as an as an actuary, is that right?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but most of my work was doing investment strategy, which means helping large institutions invest their billions, sometimes billions, how much go into stocks and shares, how much go into bonds, how much go into private equity, how much go into hedge funds, um, and based on their kind of level of risks and their time horizon, etc.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, but yeah, big amounts of money and slightly different from what I'm doing.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, well, a world away from what you're doing at the moment.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you've moved from advising large corporates where to invest their money to writing children's books, teaching them all about money, money management, and why they should save their money for the future.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's completely different.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, so going from billions to five, ten pounds pocket money or money from the toothberry.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, the key piece is actually the advice underlying it isn't materially different.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I felt actually some of the when I was doing consulting with these large ones, I used the news, I use stories because they're just easier for them to remember, make it more engaging.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I thought, well, I kind of do that for large institutions.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do something for my kids.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I started just doing these stories uh about money to try and say, right, I want my kids to do what I've been telling these large institutions to do.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right, how do I do that?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right, let's make it into a fun story.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: So every bedtime, I kind of picked the topic and then tried to make a story out of it for my kids.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of how Blue Tree Savings for my company uh and my book kind of started because I wanted to help parents teach their kids about money.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but without just saying, right, sit your kids down and give them a lecture, because that's pretty boring.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Let's try and think of fun ways to do it.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And stories is one of the best ways, I find.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, when was this sort of epiphany?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: When when did it happen?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you were working like in a pretty high-end corporate role, really, weren't you?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Probably doing quite well for yourself, you know, in a completely different environment, teaching to writing, sorry, and creating content that's aimed at children to teach them about money.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: When, when, when and why did it happen?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: What what was the reason for it?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: When did the penny drop?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Did you say to yourself, well, I don't want to do this anymore?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do financial education, teach kids about money.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so as I said, when I came to Hawaiian, uh to Vietnam, I didn't really have this kind of all right, I'm gonna create this big big business and I'm gonna do this particular draw.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of thought about it for a long while.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the key bits was when I was I did move from Hong Kong to to uh Vietnam, a lot of people who worked in the financial services industry said to me, Well, how can you afford to do that?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: And these are people who have earned good money um and wealthy in their own right, but yet they couldn't contemplate how someone could stop working and not have a salary and survive.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, so my wife and I have just always been savers and investors for the longest time.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we've built up a an Est Egg and we can sort of live off some of the proceeds of that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought everyone was doing that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it turns out even people within the financial services industry who have the most knowledge about money still weren't doing it themselves.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like, right, why is that?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of it is that they were never taught.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I did some more research, and I don't know if you know this, but most of your adult money behaviors are actually formed by the age of seven, and there's been like research by Cambridge University, and so if you grew up just spending, spending, spending, and that's all you associate money with, which is you can see how some kids do that, or most kids only see money for spending.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of doesn't matter how much knowledge you get later in life, it it's very hard to change your actions because it becomes habits, and uh and so even these people who are in the financial services industry got this knowledge and they've got the money, but yeah, they still just kind of spend it and keep up with the Joneses and think, all right, I earn this good money so I can buy this thing and I'll learn some more in the future.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of reflected back on right, my parents were savers, so I learned and watched them, and I think that's why I've always saved.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and it's given me this amazing opportunity to do what I'm doing now.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so I thought, right, I want my kids to have that same opportunity when they're older, and that's why I thought, right, I'm clearly I'm doing something different from other people.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: I want to try and educate as many others so that they can kind of do what we're doing and make up the fact that most of their parents were never taught about money, so they probably never taught.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: So there's this kind of cycle that's going on and on, and I kind of want to do my bit to break that, and hence what I'm doing now, which is yeah, completely different.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm having a being a parent and you do a lot of reading into children's behavior and when they learn and how those behaviors then stick.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And when you start to do a little bit of bit of work on yourself as well, especially around mental health, CBT, stuff like that, you can start to see also the habits that we formed from a very, very young age.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to kind of try to undo them in later life.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really quite difficult.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember talking to Catherine Morgan from the money panel, and she's quite similar to her sort of financial coaching, and she's very open about her background and her spending.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, she was a big spender on clothes and things and got herself into debt.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And she herself just had this kind of bad relationship with money.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um, she had to sort of unpick that in later life.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's something that we can actually teach our children at a very young age that would stick in before the age of seven, that would have such a positive impact on the future for them, because obviously money causes a huge amount of stress to some people, you know, very much, very much so.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um what an amazing thing that actually is.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And financial education is a huge piece, isn't it, at the moment, especially in the UK.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it's like around the rest of the world, but without a shadow of a doubt, in the UK, financial education is a big deal.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, not a great deal of it gets taught in the schools at any age.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's something I won't mind talking to you a little bit about in in a bit.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so tell us a little bit about Blue Tree savings ends.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're over in Vietnam, you've you've you've said to yourself, right, I'm gonna, I've got some children here.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I, I, you know, people around me, even though they were experts in their field of financial services, are asking you questions, how the hell have you managed to go and live in Vietnam?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: That just sort of raised a few questions with you and got you thinking about your upbringing and how you learn about money.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then you decide, right, okay, well, I'm gonna teach my my children about it as well.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you've set up blue treesavings.com.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just give us an overt overview, really, of what blue treesavings.com is about and and you know, and what you hope to achieve with that website, for instance.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it started off with just a kind of blog platform.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just like each week writing an article aimed at helping parents.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it was never I'm gonna write something going directly to children, it was always I'm gonna teach parents how to teach their kids.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So parents can learn some money topics uh that they've never been taught before.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So investing in the stock market is one that most parents have no idea.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: But if they can start teaching their kids about that from a young age and all that, those years of getting returns on small amounts of money can be life-changing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I started off doing that and getting some really good reactions.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So uh some of my blogs were being picked up by like Financial Times and the Times and other media outlets, which is fantastic because um, as I'm I'm an actory by background, so that means I've always just loved numbers.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've tried to stay away from words as much as possible.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: So be writing and getting recognition from sort of the press was yeah, was a bit overwhelming at the time.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I had about a year of doing uh just writing, kind of using it as a blog platform and article and getting some good feedback.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Then I tried to find different ways of trying to get some money out of that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of uh was sort of like nice writing that content.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I started working with some companies and actually going into doing sort of lunchtime webinars to help them teach their employees, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: If your parents come along and I'll tell you how you can start a conversation with your kids about money and the kind of top tips uh which every parent should be doing with their children in respect of money.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so that really got really good feedback.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I was getting a lot of referrals um both in Asia and in uh the UK.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then I did an online course.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: So if people go onto my website, there's a sort of five 20-minute videos where I kind of go through some top tips, uh, covering um habits, talking about rich versus wealthy, which I think is a huge topic, uh, investing in the stock market to sort of more technical ones, so uh talking about mortgages and pensions and tax, but all using kind of stories and analogies to make it kind of fun.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so then the background to Blue Tree savings is that I get my parents, uh my kids and kind of other parents that I speak to to get them to think of money like seeds.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is really, really powerful.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not the first person to use this, I've seen this other people use that kind of same analogy, but I'll just try to put turbos on it.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so if kids can think, so with my kids, I say, right, every time you get some money, think of it like seeds, and make sure you plant at least one out of every 10 of those seeds, and then that's it, that is just saving and investing.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And the idea is that when they do that, they're planting a blue tree.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And over time, I want them to sort of visualize growing this kind of financial forest of these blue trees, and it just makes the whole conversation about money um more engaging for my kids.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll say to me, Daddy, how many blue trees do I have?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And daddy, um, can I put some money towards my blue trees?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just yeah, nice, easy conversation.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, they're seeing money into the future, they understand it, they know they want to nurture it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, so in all those sort of blogs and the online course, all focuses on helping parents use those kind of analogies in a simple way so that kids find talking about money enjoyable and easy and a little bit fun as well.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, up to the age of seven is when we start to build these behaviors and habits around money that go on with us for the rest of our life.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you, being a parent, my daughter's attention span at that age isn't great.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't great.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Probably because she's my daughter, my attention span's terrible as well.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: But um, getting her to sit down and listen to me talk about money, I think would be really tricky.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm definitely gonna try it, by the way.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've got your book, so I'm definitely gonna try reading it to her and and going through with it because what you've just said there about all the learning before seven years old, I just now's the perfect time for me to do it with her.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love to see where it where it takes us.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 100% gonna do it.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But um, what's the feedback from parents then who've been using the book and the course and things?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have they said, you know, is is it is it a positive response?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: The children react really positively to it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose again, it's that kind of I was never taught it, so I think it's possibly a bit boring for a child.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: But what's the feedback you're getting from the parents?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first I'm not doing it as a lecture, I'm doing it as stories.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: So and these are stories which have characters in there.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so when I started writing some of them, so my daughters were so they're two years different, and sometimes my youngest would not get the connection between the story and money, but she would really enjoy the story.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then as she kind of got older, she's kind of enjoyed, got the connection, a bit like I suppose Aesop's Fables, where kids probably remember the uh the boy who cried wolf, but probably at first didn't make the connection about what's the moral behind the story, but they remember the story, and then as they get older, and that's exactly what I've been trying to do with the stories, is make them sure they're fun and memorable.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so my youngest daughter will be at the say, uh, do you remember that story?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And she'll remember the story, and I'll be like, What's the connection?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And now she can she can make that connection without me having to sort of explain it, and that's the same thing in the book.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So the book uh is now a collection of these little stories I've uh been creating, but has a overlayer.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So as parents are reading with their kids or kids are reading it, it is a fun little story.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: You've got these characters, so uh Richie Raccoon, who starts off with being a sort of flamboyant rich guy who finds gold and showing off, and then he uh he loses all his money, and so the client the kids are kind of following these characters, uh, and then they can just try and associate themselves with them a bit.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, it's as it's story-based, it's not they're learning about money in a very kind of passive, fun kind of way, rather than right, we're gonna sit down today and talk about money because arbitrary important.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, I like the idea of that, the association side of it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of building a relationship with the character to then go back to remember what that character went through, but what that character is going through is a natural thing that people will experience within their lives.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they can always relate to that as being uh an actual thing that can and possibly might happen in their life.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if they learn it now, it's teaching them a lesson and it learned if they learn it now, then they're sort of prepared for it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find the parents?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just go back to the book you've actually because obviously blue blue tree savings.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: You've you've taken blue tree savings, you've written some blog articles, you've got a load of you know, blogs being put in the newspapers and all that kind of stuff.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've been picked up by lots of people.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: We people really like your your content because obviously I enjoy your content and I've seen it on LinkedIn on a regular basis.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then you decided to write a book, didn't you?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So just tell us a little bit about the book that you've written.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the book's called Grandpa's Fortune Fables.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it starts off with uh a young girl who's about 13 called Gail, and she is the granddaughter of this really wealthy uh her grandfather, and she meets a friend and essentially tells teaches her friend, new friend, all these kind of stories about her grandpa and how he learned about money by going to this faraway island called Pucho Pucho.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he went in search of gold.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: I won't ruin the whole story, but he went in search of gold and wasn't so lucky in finding gold.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: But he then starts to grow his own kind of forest and has like these adventures and sort of mishaps uh and meets these other characters on this island.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so this girl is kind of teaching her friend who knows nothing about money, how her grandpa became really wealthy from all these lessons and adventures from this faraway island.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: And each chapter has these little uh adventures in them, and each covers a different money topic.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, so this little the boy, the friend, kind of goes from oh, money's too hard, and my parents always argue about money to by the end of it's like really excited, he knows what he wants to do, he's really confident that he's gonna start his own little business and he's gonna save his money and invest his money.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's got this nice gradual sort of story, but all these kind of mini adventures uh along the way.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, the parents have enjoyed it because it talks just on subjects that they've never been talked about.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, investing for one, uh it talks about tax and charity, but again, not using uh boring stories, it's using so taxes like the money birds who take some of the seeds away when he's not looking and um, etc.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: But it also has little bits in there to try and keep it even more fun.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, one of the best feedback I have is at the end of each chapter, uh, there's a little quiz and called um Grandpa's Mystery Code.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: So at the end of each chapter, the kids have to answer the question, and if they get the question right, they get a letter, and then at the end of the book, they've got to try and rearrange the letters to solve the code to get a prize.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's been amazing bit of feedback that kids like they just want to read the book so they can solve the code.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's been yeah, great.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the great bit is that parents are sitting down with their kids and reading it, even even though it's targeting reading age of seven to 13.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Parents are reading to their younger kids, so yeah, to your daughter.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: But even parents are reading it on their own and saying they've really enjoyed it because they've never been taught about this stuff before.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and it's going really well, and the feedback's been really positive.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's something quite beautiful though about reading something that's so simplified a child can understand it.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I enjoy reading very simple, you know, simple books because you know, I don't want to be baffled, but you know, I don't want to read a book that's 300 pages to explain something that lasts 10 pages.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people overcomplicate subject matter sometimes.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um financial services is rife with overcomplic, you know, with jargon and complicated words and oh, it's too difficult for you to understand, let me do it for you, type of thing.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's another reason why we're kind of put off by financial services, is because it's just sometimes so difficult to understand.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we just kind of step away from it for fear of looking stupid or something like that.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and therefore we back away from it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I like the simplistic approach.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like what you're doing there with that book because I'd certainly be somebody, and my wife, without a doubt, would be somebody who would um read that and be like, wow, brilliant.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's taught me a lesson.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: She loves doing it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: She gets really excited about like um the homework with um Isabella because for her, it's like going back to school and going back over it all.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um, yeah, parents, I could understand why parents would really find that beneficial as well.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And also parents, like you're going through a you're having a kid, you're going through a stage where you're probably thinking, oh God, I've been overspending all my life or my finances probably aren't in the place they should be.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a it's a kind of gentle way to kind of educate yourself as well, isn't it, about finance and savings and why you should be doing it, but also kind of bringing it into a greater good of your child growing up with that, uh, instill that knowledge, but also as well, creating a little maybe a little bit of short-term security as well, um, by by tackling some of those difficult questions that you don't want to ask.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, 100%.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what I want it to do, is be a catalyst for parents to have a conversation with their kids about money and make it fun.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And because as you I think, as you mentioned earlier, lots of people find money really stressful and because they've never been taught and they're in a predicament themselves.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, hopefully just using stories and learning together with the kids.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm exactly the same as you and you and your wife, where I'm doing homework with my kids and remembering stuff and going, I can't remember learning this stuff when I was your age.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was like 14 or something, they're learning it when they're like eight.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I love that.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love I love the fact that in the schools at the moment, they're teaching a lot about mindfulness.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So my daughter goes to school and they have meditation and they, you know, they're talking about their feelings and their thoughts and they're um doing yoga.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that kind of financial well-being element, if it's if that was brought into schools at a young age, then I think it would just have a massively positive impact on them.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And also, like you say, coming home talking to their parents about it, and the parents all of a sudden go, well, I don't know much about this.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of sparked a kind of um an interest for the parents to do something about it.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that might then reach them, you know, they might then reach out for some financial advice, for example.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's um what's your sort of big game plan here?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are you trying to get yourself into any schools and on the curriculum or anything like that?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Have you thought about that?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, potentially.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I've actually had a big asset manager essentially reach out to to do some work with some schools based on the content of my book.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because they know they just thought they really liked the book and thought, right, how can we make this?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because going into schools and teaching kids about money is something we should do, but you need to make it fun because if you bore kids about money when they're young, they probably never want to think about money ever again.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if you can make it fun when they're younger and that was stay with them.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: But my main one is still to try and do as much with parents as possible.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why my game plan is and one of the bits I'm so keen and happy that we're talking is working with financial advisors and financial planners and financial coaches.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because they have access to lots of parents and being able to say, right, you're looking after their well-being, let me work with you and help look after the well-being of their kids and doing the education content.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a huge alignment of interest there, and we can just reach as many parents.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason is that so a little bit sort of at your point earlier about if kids go to the idea would be if kids go to school, learn things about money, go home and have a conversation with parents, go, okay, I need to learn more.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's kind of dream state, but actually, it's probably better if the parents are talking to their kids and taking the ownership.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I really want parents to understand that they can teach their kids about money even if they've ever been taught before, and hence starting Blue Tree.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: So they can then start slowly incorporating it into their daily lives.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: So money isn't a sit down, we're gonna sit there and do five hours of money chat, and you're gonna be a genius, but just trying to factor it into everyday life.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, I'll give you an example of my daughters.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: I created one of the characters in not in the book, but um in one of my blogs called Scammy Sam.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I it's always just like teaching them that saying sounds too good to be true.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: It probably is.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd say for breakfast, uh, right, breakfast today, we're gonna have waffles, we're gonna have ice cream and chocolate sauce.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Who's up for it?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if they don't shout scammy Sam at me, then they're gonna get the tallest breakfast ever.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and trying to incorporate these little lessons into um bits, and it doesn't have to be complex, it can be fun.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but it needs that parent involvement to kind of make it a continuous learning experience, and hence why I talk to parents about pocket money as well.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's just the most underrated financial tool there is uh out there.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, pocket money.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just think uh so pocket money is so when I think about money and learning, there's kind of knowledge about money.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what is debt, what is tax, what is investment.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: But that doesn't really drive your future, it's what actions you take.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all good having the knowledge, but if it doesn't change, whereas pocket money, you can give them money every kind of week.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can teach them just to save a little bit every time they get some pocket money, that's just gonna be that habit that's gonna be hardwired into their brains by the age of seven, ideally.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't mean it's hard-coded at seven, but it just gives them that opportunity to make decisions, make mistakes, uh, just yeah, think about money and start forming great habits from a young age.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: But kids don't get pocket money, then they've got the theory, but then they can't put it into practice.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where the the difference comes into their financial future is about what actions they take.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: How much do you think?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is a this is I think this is a good question to ask you, actually, because I'm in that place.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my daughter's five and a half, and I don't give her any pocket money.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's an only child as well.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I tend to just every so often I'll buy her something, you know, in you know, whether it's some clothes or whether we go to the shop and I might buy her a toy, or you know, if she's playing a game on my phone, I might download something.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's an area of kind of difficulty to kind of get them to understand, especially when money physically isn't there anymore, you know, trying to get them to understand that you're still paying for something digitally.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's another area.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, how I've seen these things like um cash cards for kids.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm at an age, I'm at a stage now where I should really, now I'm talking to you, I should be thinking about pocket money for her and teaching her about the money and saving part of that pocket money, et cetera.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: How much do you think's a suitable amount for like a five and a half year old, for instance?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it, you know, if you go giving a five and a half year old a hundred quid a month pocket money, is that the same as giving them five pounds a month?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do they still learn the same lesson?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, what's your advice around pocket money for children?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so my view is so it's gonna vary, the amount will vary by every family because it's about there, how much they have.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I see it as a framework.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you say, right, we've got a child who's just been born, clearly they've got no financial responsibility, you're gonna pay 100% for everything.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: By the time they get to 18, they want to be making pretty much all of the money decisions they get.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's gonna be some that parents might still help out with, but you essentially want them to be understanding they've got to pay for bills, clothes, entertainment, everything.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of go from zero to a hundred percent, and pocket money is just that kind of transition.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if I use my daughters when they're about a similar age, we kind of said, right, we were just buying everything for them.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Then we've kind of made a conscious decision, so right, we want to start giving them, start to give them some responsibility.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what we did is we kind of said, right, how much do you generally spend over a year on toys?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so we would said, then what we'll do is we'll give them toys on their birthday and Christmas as presents.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's not gonna change.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: But those ad hoc toys that they get throughout, we're not gonna buy them anymore.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: But we're gonna give them pocket money of the equivalent amount and kind of spread it out over the year.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: So now for my kids, we've not bought them any toys except for on their birthday and Christmas, but giving them pocket money and said, This money is for you to buy your own toys.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they save up and then they buy the toys.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're starting to make some decisions, they're deciding, right, do I want that toy or that toy?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not a spontaneous or impulsive decision because they've got to save up that money.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if parents are just buying toys at ad hoc kind of piece, it's a bit more impulsive.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then as they get older, we'll start to transfer more of the responsibilities over to them.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um we envisage when uh we're back in the UK and they're starting to go to like the cinema with their friends, rather than saying, right, you're going to the cinema, here's some money.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: We'll kind of say, right, this month, how many times do you reckon you'll go to the cinema on average?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll give you pocket money that allows you to go to the cinema twice a month, for example.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then it's their choice.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: If they go to the cinema once and they save the money, that's fine.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: If they go three times but don't have any pocket money, again, we're just transferring the decisions from us to them, still giving them the money, but slowly, slowly giving them more and more responsibilities, uh, such that by the time they're 18, they're they're just they uh hopefully earning money by that time.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: But they're also pocket money, please.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: But they're also they're made, they're responsible for budgeting.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: But over the period, they've made so many mistakes and learned from them.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if parents are just paying for it on their behalf, they're they're never gonna have the consequences of those mistakes, and therefore, when you the last thing you want to do is have an 18-year-old who's never paid for anything in their life.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: So good luck.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a credit card.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um what do you do then?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you how to say, for example, with their blue tree savings, where does it where do those blue tree savings sit?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is it in cash in a piggy bank in your bedroom?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is it in a ICE?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where, where, you know, how do they view that money?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: How do they see it and how do they feel it grow?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we so they give us each month we put some money in uh um an investment fund, so just the Vanguard Global Tracker Investment Fund.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then every month, uh every week when we give them some pocket money, we say to them, what do you want to do with this pocket money?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so they say, Well, you might want to go and spend some on sweets, they'll put some towards whatever they're saving for, and then they'll put some towards their blue trees, and essentially they'll give that money back to us, and then we'll go on the computer and uh sort of type it in, and then they'll they've got on there how many blue trees they've got, so they can kind of see that.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, their siblings, they're like, Oh, how many's imaging got how many's Florence got, and sort of a little bit competitive, which I don't endorse, but it's nice to see.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, so they can kind of see their kind of money growing.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the great thing is now we've been doing it for some years, they we can see how much they put in and how much it's worth.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost they've seen their money double over a few years' time, over a few years, because they've been doing it regularly, and we talk to them about the stock market.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, my youngest in particular, who's seven now, she's really intrigued.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got if I'm on my phone, she'll go, Oh daddy, what's the stock market doing?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: And she'll we'll just get a little app up.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she doesn't care, she's just interested because I've kind of taught her if it if the stock market's red and it's going down, that's a good time and it's gone up, that means we've made more money.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that again, that sounds some advice.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds really good advice.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well that look, especially like super endorse parents that teach learn about investing and invest for their kids.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because if kids can go through sort of 10-15 years of seeing stock markets going up and down, up and down, but ultimately growing by the time they become adults.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's just what stock markets do.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas when adults first start investing, they're like when they see their first market crash and they're like, uh, the world's falling apart.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas kids, if they've seen it kind of falling apart and recover, then that's the psychological advantage that's gonna help them the wealth building.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of my listeners are financial planners or work within the financial planning profession.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: How can they benefit from getting this book?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: How you know, how can they use this book to help them generate closer, more meaningful relationships with clients or win new clients?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I've worked with a number of uh financial planners, and the key piece is that if they've got children, and in most cases, uh grandchildren, being able to do something that you give a book to them and say that this is going to help your children, you can sit down with them, just shows for the planner that you care not just about the client and their money, but about their family.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's just a goodwill that's um is going to be very much appreciated by them.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: But also, speaking to financial planners, um there's a big bit about this like wealth transfer.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you have this kind of fear that these people have been working with these financial planners doing really good things, they've they've got insurances and they've got good investments, and there's this fear that something's gonna happen to them, they're gonna give this money to their kids, and their kids are gonna go and buy gold teeth and Gucci hammocks.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so the parents and grandparents, if they feel that there's something that's gonna help those kids look after their money and are gonna have that education which isn't provided in schools, that gives them their assurances, and that's probably more so for grandparents who are thinking about inheritance and more wealth transfer to the to the younger generations.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, from that perspective, they're they're thinking about the wider family, they're thinking about this wealth transfer.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, it's just a nice gift that is many others aren't providing to their clients.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, Christmas is coming up.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: What a wonderful way for a financial advisor to touch base with the clients in a really kind and considerate way, um, without making it obvious that they're just trying to try to sweeten them up.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, an education piece around, you know, how to educate your children, your grandchildren or children around money is fantastic.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a great Christmas gift, it's meaningful and it creates connection, doesn't it?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Then the kids read the book and they want to be like, I want to invest, then clearly the uh financial planners can help with the sort of family setting up a junior ISO or a junior SIP with them.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And even though it's a small amount of money, that's give it 15 years of compound interest.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you've got a relationship with them from a young age that can last a lifetime.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: So where where can this book be bought, Will?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so uh it's on Amazon only.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or if you're buying one or two copies, if you are a financial planner and you want to give to um to many of your clients or friends or colleagues, uh, then please come directly to me.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on LinkedIn, so Will Rainey, or come to me at Will at blue tree savings.com, and then I can help you order a discount to the Amazon price.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Great stuff.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Will, thank you so much for um coming on the podcast today and telling us about your book.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds really, really interesting.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely gonna be reading that to Isabella um and my wife.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think we're both enjoying reading that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really looking forward to to doing that with Isabella actually, and and to know she's gonna create some of her own spending habits and ideas around money before the age of seven.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, time's a ticking.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get on that.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I just want to make sure it's after seven, it's fine.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it's not doom's like somebody turns seven, she's asset, she's screwed.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um younger, the better.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Will thank you so much for your time today.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Likewise, thank you.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed that chat.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers, mate.