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Fourth World Book Club #2 · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody! Welcome back to the 4th World Book Club on 22 panels, where Sean Harkleroad and Mark Pratt
• 0:12
  Tad Eggleston: show up
• 0:13
  Tad Eggleston: every month to teach me why Jack Kirby is awesome, because, while I am aware that Jack Kirby is awesome.
• 0:22
  Tad Eggleston: the whole whys and wherefores I'm still working on
• 0:26
  Tad Eggleston: other than he worked really fast.
• 0:29
  Mark Pracht: He is.
• 0:30
  Mark Pracht: He is not just, awesome. He is the king.
• 0:33
  Tad Eggleston: The King of Comics.
• 0:37
  Mark Pracht: And.
• 0:38
  Sean Harklerode: But.
• 0:39
  Mark Pracht: You
• 0:41
  Mark Pracht: Johnny Carson had to bring him on air and apologize to him for making fun of him, saying that he was the King of Comics.
• 0:48
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 0:50
  Mark Pracht: So.
• 0:52
  Mark Pracht: Yeah. So what we're looking at this month is the second month of Jack's 4th World books.
• 1:00
  Mark Pracht: Once he moved over to DC from marvel.
• 1:06
  Mark Pracht: there it's in release order. It's forever people number one. New gods, number one, Mr. Miracle number one, and Superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, number 1, 36
• 1:20
  Mark Pracht: so, and Sean can jump in and correct me if my bleary post
• 1:31
  Mark Pracht: time change head is not working so well, but so forever. People is
• 1:39
  Mark Pracht: very much in the 4th world. Mythology.
• 1:45
  Mark Pracht: It involves a group of young
• 1:48
  Mark Pracht: citizens of new Genesis, of Supertown, who come to Earth, and they're looking for
• 1:57
  Mark Pracht: a female member of their group named Beautiful Dreamer, beautiful dreamer, anyway.
• 2:04
  Mark Pracht: And because she supposedly
• 2:08
  Mark Pracht: old Insider Head, some element of the anti-life equation, which is what great dark Side is looking for through most of this.
• 2:19
  Mark Pracht: this entire exercise.
• 2:22
  Mark Pracht: What is the anti-life equation?
• 2:26
  Mark Pracht: Who knows.
• 2:28
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 2:31
  Tad Eggleston: 6 times 7 is 43
• 2:37
  Tad Eggleston: at 42, I don't know.
• 2:39
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, 6 times 7 is 42 is the meaning.
• 2:41
  Mark Pracht: Universe, and everything is.
• 2:43
  Tad Eggleston: And everything. So I'm assuming that if you get it wrong, it's the anti life equation.
• 2:49
  Sean Harklerode: Well, yeah. 42 divided by 6.
• 2:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, maybe maybe
• 2:55
  Tad Eggleston: I was. Just. I know some kids that could get Chat Gpt to tell you that 6 times 7 is 43.
• 3:03
  Mark Pracht: Well.
• 3:08
  Mark Pracht: let's not talk about that. But forever, people, is.
• 3:15
  Mark Pracht: It very much feels in the same vein as the the Jimmy Olsen kind of stories to me. Anyway.
• 3:22
  Mark Pracht: it feels like it's a real serious attempt to reach out to the the kids
• 3:29
  Mark Pracht: and or the teens. And
• 3:33
  Mark Pracht: it kind of moves in the same way that the Jimmy Olson, if you listen to us last month
• 3:39
  Mark Pracht: it, kind of moves in the same way that Jimmy Olsen things do plus
• 3:43
  Sean Harklerode: He didn't mention the poetry.
• 3:47
  Mark Pracht: The poetry.
• 3:48
  Sean Harklerode: The poetry of Jack Kirby.
• 3:51
  Mark Pracht: The poetry of Jack Kirby. Okay.
• 3:54
  Sean Harklerode: Log. Of this, the 1st 2 pages.
• 3:57
  Tad Eggleston: You mean the epilogue.
• 3:59
  Sean Harklerode: No, that that's.
• 4:01
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, no, that's new gods!
• 4:02
  Sean Harklerode: That's new guy. Yeah, that's true. But you know it. Rhymes.
• 4:08
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 4:09
  Sean Harklerode: The the 1st 2 pages are are a rhyme
• 4:13
  Sean Harklerode: which seemed to me a very both innovative, innovative, or innovative.
• 4:19
  Sean Harklerode: as as you know, some people say.
• 4:23
  Mark Pracht: Pivoted.
• 4:25
  Tad Eggleston: Dubitably.
• 4:26
  Sean Harklerode: It. It also seemed a very fan, like thing.
• 4:31
  Sean Harklerode: a very marvel like thing to do here.
• 4:34
  Sean Harklerode: Which which I I really liked coming from Jack right?
• 4:41
  Sean Harklerode: But I just I just wanted to mention it because it was
• 4:45
  Sean Harklerode: not something I had remembered from the last time I had read these.
• 4:49
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't clock that. That is interesting.
• 4:53
  Mark Pracht: I mean, you know, these the forever people are.
• 5:04
  Mark Pracht: you know. It's sort of one of it's another one of Jack's boy gangs, essentially.
• 5:08
  Mark Pracht: you know, and put into this 4th World milieu.
• 5:17
  Mark Pracht: I don't know like one of the things about this particular book that I thought was really strange
• 5:22
  Mark Pracht: was like Superman's, like, I've got to get to Supertown. I've got to find a place where I belong, and I'm like, don't you have?
• 5:29
  Mark Pracht: Don't you have a bottled city
• 5:32
  Mark Pracht: in the fortress of Solitude at this point?
• 5:36
  Mark Pracht: Can't you go to Krypton essentially anytime you want.
• 5:41
  Mark Pracht: Am I right? Am I wrong?
• 5:44
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know my superman continuity well enough to argue.
• 5:47
  Sean Harklerode: I mean he would have. He would have the bottle City of Candor.
• 5:52
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, because I mean, that's like a
• 5:53
  Sean Harklerode: was he able? I I don't know if he was able to go back and forth at will.
• 6:00
  Sean Harklerode: At that time, but.
• 6:01
  Tad Eggleston: And did he not feel like he belonged in Smallville or Metropolis? Because I mean.
• 6:08
  Mark Pracht: It, it.
• 6:08
  Tad Eggleston: Not like. He lived on.
• 6:12
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know, I think that it's 1 of those things where
• 6:17
  Mark Pracht: you know, when I was reading this because I hadn't remembered how much he's like. Oh, I'm so alone. I am so cut off from all of humanity, and I'm like.
• 6:26
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 6:26
  Mark Pracht: Did Zack Snyder read this, because this is
• 6:31
  Mark Pracht: this is very similar to the Snyder kind of underpinnings, you know.
• 6:37
  Tad Eggleston: I mean on one side, I guess I can get how you would expect that psychology from Superman
• 6:43
  Tad Eggleston: but I think it discounts John and Martha Kent.
• 6:48
  Mark Pracht: Well, it discounts a lot of things really.
• 6:50
  Tad Eggleston: Well, yeah.
• 6:51
  Mark Pracht: It discounts Lois. It discounts Jimmy. It discounts, you know, I mean, but but.
• 6:56
  Tad Eggleston: I mean the the level that he was grounded from the beginning, I think, is is why it's always seemed weird to me to have that.
• 7:08
  Tad Eggleston: Take on, Superman.
• 7:10
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it it just. It does seem weird. And it obviously, I think.
• 7:15
  Mark Pracht: if I was to make a guess, I would think that it was Jack trying to
• 7:20
  Mark Pracht: figure out a way to put Superman into the book right.
• 7:25
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 7:25
  Mark Pracht: And you know
• 7:28
  Mark Pracht: I'm not like we've had this conversation, Tad, and I like continuity, and like Canon, is not this huge thing for me.
• 7:39
  Mark Pracht: but i 1 of the things that also came to me while I was reading. It was like, Well, you know, John df black, when he was the the story editor on Star Trek, the original Star Trek he would talk about in interviews. He's like we never talked about.
• 7:55
  Mark Pracht: that is out of character for Captain Kirk. It was like Captain Kirk would do whatever we needed him to do to get us a story, you know, and and I think that
• 8:05
  Mark Pracht: especially when you're doing a serialized form of storytelling.
• 8:09
  Mark Pracht: That's kind of the way you have to go with it.
• 8:12
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 8:13
  Mark Pracht: But it's also a little weird.
• 8:19
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, I think when you're doing a serial story, it's really convenient to have a character that you can do that with. But I think James T. Kirk is a very different character from Superman in that
• 8:31
  Tad Eggleston: he's built to have. It's never out of character, because
• 8:36
  Tad Eggleston: it is never out of character. He's built to be
• 8:41
  Mark Pracht: Well, he's built to grapple with moral quandaries and really grapple with them.
• 8:46
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 8:46
  Mark Pracht: Superman sort of has moral quandaries, and you know, he's always gonna be like, yes, this is what we're gonna do. You know.
• 8:52
  Tad Eggleston: Right superman has way, more moral absolutes than I think Kirk does.
• 8:57
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 8:58
  Sean Harklerode: But I mean he does wind up, not going right.
• 9:02
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 9:03
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, he does.
• 9:05
  Sean Harklerode: So, you know it's the last temptation of Superman here.
• 9:10
  Tad Eggleston: No, they're coming after us now, Sean.
• 9:16
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, like he's also like it was the wrong time to go, perhaps someday I'll try again. But the time is not now, not yet.
• 9:24
  Mark Pracht: And it's like.
• 9:27
  Sean Harklerode: That is a fantastic panel, and I know I have shared that on Facebook with the panel, with the caption of my thoughts on online dating.
• 9:37
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 9:42
  Mark Pracht: Perhaps we should have a sidebar.
• 9:43
  Sean Harklerode: Someday I'll try again.
• 9:45
  Sean Harklerode: But the time is not now.
• 9:47
  Sean Harklerode: No, not yet.
• 9:49
  Mark Pracht: But like it to to the the primary thing that kind of happens with the forever people is that through the power of the mother box
• 10:00
  Mark Pracht: which you will, you will. The mother box is a huge thing in the 4th World mythology.
• 10:07
  Mark Pracht: the forever people, at least the boys
• 10:10
  Mark Pracht: are able to combine themselves into a character called the Infinity Man, who, it's almost suggested here is more powerful than Superman.
• 10:20
  Tad Eggleston: So is this where Voltron came from?
• 10:24
  Mark Pracht: You know Jack Kirby created everything.
• 10:27
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay.
• 10:31
  Mark Pracht: But you know, like I think that
• 10:35
  Mark Pracht: you know, when I said that I really like 2 of these books, this is like, I've always been kind of lukewarm on the forever people. I don't think that it was ever
• 10:46
  Mark Pracht: as well thought out as the other 2,
• 10:49
  Mark Pracht: and it's so ancillary to the main thrust of the narrative of the 4th World.
• 10:55
  Mark Pracht: I mean, and and Jimmy Olsen kind of has that problem as well. They both kind of just sort of float out there, and they're sort of about it, and they sort of touch on it. But they're not really about it right.
• 11:10
  Sean Harklerode: Dark side, and his, you know gang just seems incongruous to me still
• 11:20
  Sean Harklerode: going back that he's working with inner gang, I mean, I know inner gang has
• 11:24
  Sean Harklerode: the weapons that you know from world, but still.
• 11:28
  Mark Pracht: I want to take over this planet. I'm gonna get the gangsters.
• 11:31
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 11:33
  Sean Harklerode: and when they're flying in the helicopter and talking to dark side on the, you know visual walkie talkie.
• 11:42
  Sean Harklerode: It just reminds me of Thanos and his helicopter in spidey super stories.
• 11:50
  Sean Harklerode: Which I don't know, Tad, you've you've seen those images.
• 11:55
  Tad Eggleston: I think so.
• 11:57
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 11:58
  Mark Pracht: It's just an incredibly incongruous little bit of business that's in one of those spidey super stories books. And it's funny as hell.
• 12:06
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, I think I think that
• 12:10
  Mark Pracht: it I you know I don't know it. It also seems like.
• 12:17
  Mark Pracht: and I don't know. Maybe I'm too harsh.
• 12:20
  Mark Pracht: I also love that. You know the mother box in this book doesn't look anything like the mother box in any other book.
• 12:29
  Tad Eggleston: Well, this was the prototype.
• 12:31
  Mark Pracht: I guess.
• 12:32
  Tad Eggleston: He was. He was still still working on it.
• 12:36
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, and and I don't know. I it's always like
• 12:42
  Mark Pracht: I I don't know I'm being. I'm being a bit dismissive. But I do think this this book is
• 12:48
  Mark Pracht: it, didn't. It? Didn't like this wasn't a book that grabbed me and made me go look. I can't wait to read the next. However, I think it's 11 issues of forever people.
• 12:57
  Mark Pracht: But but that's me.
• 13:03
  Tad Eggleston: I brought up that I had a couple of nitty, gritty
• 13:07
  Tad Eggleston: things that, like both stood out to me, and then I couldn't stop seeing them after they stood out to me, and like.
• 13:17
  Mark Pracht: Nitpicking a comic book, fan.
• 13:19
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I know. I know crazy. But the 1st was actually in forever. People Jack is
• 13:31
  Tad Eggleston: in love with like the wrestler, slash linebacker crouch.
• 13:41
  Tad Eggleston: He uses it everywhere, which, like makes sense for the thing.
• 13:47
  Tad Eggleston: But I feel like Superman stands up straighter than that most of the time. I feel like most people stand up. Nobody gets ready to fight in Jack Kirby's world
• 14:02
  Tad Eggleston: without falling into that stance.
• 14:08
  Tad Eggleston: Hi.
• 14:08
  Mark Pracht: Well.
• 14:09
  Tad Eggleston: Sometimes whole groups running in that stance.
• 14:14
  Mark Pracht: I'm gonna defend you.
• 14:15
  Mark Pracht: Here, go ahead, Sean.
• 14:17
  Sean Harklerode: I I think Jack would probably say that the figures look more interesting.
• 14:24
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 14:25
  Sean Harklerode: Like, there's action in that photo.
• 14:28
  Mark Pracht: Yes.
• 14:29
  Sean Harklerode: Not just standing.
• 14:31
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 14:31
  Sean Harklerode: Great.
• 14:34
  Sean Harklerode: It's not, you know, realistic, maybe.
• 14:38
  Mark Pracht: No.
• 14:39
  Sean Harklerode: But there's there's something happening.
• 14:42
  Mark Pracht: Well, and I think the the main, you know. The real main point is that they're like
• 14:47
  Mark Pracht: Jack Kirby had no interest whatsoever in realistic artwork.
• 14:53
  Mark Pracht: He was interested like, you can tell that by his anatomy you can tell that by his the way he
• 14:59
  Mark Pracht: positions figures it. It is all about just dynamic picture image.
• 15:06
  Mark Pracht: and I tend to agree with. I tend to agree with Sean like it is
• 15:10
  Mark Pracht: the crouching, preparing for battle. Thing is more dynamic than just standing, you know.
• 15:22
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but see, this feels preparing for battle to me, but it's not crouched.
• 15:27
  Tad Eggleston: There's a difference between crouched and on your toes.
• 15:33
  Tad Eggleston: you know.
• 15:36
  Tad Eggleston: I was just showing a panel from later, which is from behind. So he's got the the Cape to to give the motion.
• 15:44
  Mark Pracht: I will tell you, Pat, if you saw that drawing from the front he'd be crouched like you, said.
• 15:49
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 15:52
  Mark Pracht: See, the knees are bent. One is in front.
• 15:55
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but they're not bent as far.
• 15:58
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 15:59
  Tad Eggleston: Like. I'm not saying that they should be saying, standing straight and wooden, but like
• 16:06
  Tad Eggleston: it's like the difference between a boxer's stance and a
• 16:10
  Tad Eggleston: and a wrestler's stance. It's the difference between a wide receiver getting ready to go, and and a linebacker
• 16:22
  Tad Eggleston: or linemen getting ready to go, and I'm not even a football guy, so I don't know why I'm using those analogies.
• 16:30
  Mark Pracht: I mean it's an infielder and an outfielder.
• 16:33
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like he did. There are a series of drawings, I believe he did, for the Nfl. At 1 point that
• 16:41
  Mark Pracht: have the characters in that position so.
• 16:44
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that makes sense. Lots of Nfl players are and should be in that position.
• 16:52
  Mark Pracht: I mean, you know, like I will tell you that even more than those Jimmy Olsen books, the redraws of Superman's face in this one are stick out like a sore thumb.
• 17:04
  Mark Pracht: and.
• 17:05
  Tad Eggleston: Bye.
• 17:05
  Mark Pracht: I think that that's that probably has to do with
• 17:10
  Mark Pracht: this is much more inside a Kirby world, and not Kirby interpreting
• 17:15
  Mark Pracht: Jimmy Olsen, and also there's no Jimmy. So you know.
• 17:22
  Mark Pracht: although there was a part of me at 1 point that wondered if that kid that they meet at the very beginning wasn't supposed to be Jimmy.
• 17:29
  Sean Harklerode: Well, Jimmy does show up.
• 17:31
  Sean Harklerode: He's been here briefly.
• 17:33
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, cause it's his friend.
• 17:35
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 17:35
  Mark Pracht: He's gonna come through the boom tube.
• 17:37
  Sean Harklerode: But yeah, Jimmy shows up at the end of that that strange.
• 17:40
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, you're right.
• 17:41
  Sean Harklerode: Boxer.
• 17:42
  Sean Harklerode: You know you were talking about wrestlers, you know. There's a strange interlude here.
• 17:48
  Sean Harklerode: and I don't know if this
• 17:50
  Sean Harklerode: is, you know, comes back at some point.
• 17:54
  Sean Harklerode: The the Boxer, who, you know, has a crisis of conscience confidence now.
• 17:59
  Sean Harklerode: because he knows that Superman could.
• 18:03
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 18:04
  Sean Harklerode: Right, and I don't know where that's going.
• 18:09
  Sean Harklerode: Well, just an interesting
• 18:12
  Mark Pracht: You know, and that made he treats that as the trigger for Superman's like. I need to go to Supertown and live in Super town, and it's like it really feels like you're you're torturing
• 18:23
  Mark Pracht: the nature of this character to. To get to that point.
• 18:27
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 18:28
  Sean Harklerode: plus. Maybe he met Mar- Rocky Marciano at some point and said, I'll put you in one of my comics.
• 18:39
  Sean Harklerode: I do like a lot of the art, though.
• 18:44
  Mark Pracht: Oh, no, the the art is is. There's a
• 18:49
  Mark Pracht: I love the design of Big Bear.
• 18:53
  Mark Pracht: That's probably the most interesting characters of design in the in the book.
• 19:03
  Sean Harklerode: But there's a lot of good Kirby crackle.
• 19:06
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Mark Pracht: Taru.
• 19:11
  Tad Eggleston: Definitely dynamic.
• 19:16
  Tad Eggleston: I sometimes think that he draws Superman too much like thing.
• 19:24
  Tad Eggleston: When I feel like it, should have more of Johnny Storm, or even read Richards to it.
• 19:34
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I can see that.
• 19:37
  Tad Eggleston: I think that's why that's why that pose winds up standing out to me so much. That post makes perfect sense with thing and hulk.
• 19:46
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 19:47
  Tad Eggleston: And not so much with Superman.
• 19:51
  Sean Harklerode: Hey?
• 19:52
  Sean Harklerode: Well, has a perfect Wayne boring superman.
• 19:56
  Sean Harklerode: Right?
• 19:58
  Sean Harklerode: That thick.
• 20:02
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 20:03
  Sean Harklerode: George Reeves, Ish.
• 20:04
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Sean Harklerode: You know.
• 20:06
  Sean Harklerode: That's it.
• 20:08
  Sean Harklerode: That's.
• 20:08
  Mark Pracht: That whole superman figure seems to be redrawn. If you want my opinion.
• 20:12
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 20:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. It doesn't look very Kirby at all.
• 20:15
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, and that's that is like.
• 20:20
  Mark Pracht: of all the things we can talk about like that is one of the things that is truly annoying about all this is that they they worked really hard to bring him over, and then they immediately were like, Oh, no, you don't draw like we want you to.
• 20:31
  Mark Pracht: and it's like, Well, why did you want him then, you know.
• 20:36
  Mark Pracht: other than you wanted to take something away from Stan, you know.
• 20:43
  Tad Eggleston: Be, because just like just like it says on the cover, Kirby is here.
• 20:49
  Mark Pracht: You sure.
• 20:49
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 20:52
  Mark Pracht: Kirby? Who's Kirby.
• 20:53
  Tad Eggleston: Herbies.
• 20:54
  Mark Pracht: Young. I'm young, Sean Harkle Road.
• 20:56
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, I I wonder. I wonder how.
• 20:59
  Mark Pracht: Be okay.
• 20:59
  Tad Eggleston: We're actually expecting the robot.
• 21:04
  Tad Eggleston: That's Herbie.
• 21:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, whatever.
• 21:07
  Mark Pracht: Kirby.
• 21:08
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, wasn't there a Kirby robot toy in this.
• 21:11
  Mark Pracht: Vitamin.
• 21:13
  Mark Pracht: Now I will tell you.
• 21:14
  Sean Harklerode: I have to.
• 21:15
  Mark Pracht: Now that you've I keep looking at this 1st page, now that you pointed out that it rhymes that's really interesting.
• 21:20
  Mark Pracht: And I mean, like this is a an incredible page, anyway, like
• 21:24
  Mark Pracht: like, there's no figures in it, but it's just pure Kirby cosmic power, you know.
• 21:31
  Mark Pracht: And the you know, Vince Coletta didn't
• 21:41
  Mark Pracht: wreck it too much with his with his inking.
• 21:44
  Mark Pracht: It's pretty solid.
• 21:46
  Tad Eggleston: You love Vince Coletta so much just.
• 21:49
  Mark Pracht: Well, look, I mean, I think we were talking about this last time. Excuse me.
• 21:55
  Mark Pracht: you know Vince could do a great job, and Vince would also take any job you put in front of him, and if it's like we need 28 pages in 2 days he would do 28 pages in 2 days, and he would do it by erasing half the stuff on the page. And
• 22:10
  Mark Pracht: like, I understand that.
• 22:13
  Mark Pracht: There is also, you know the famous story that
• 22:17
  Mark Pracht: when Vince was getting these pages from DC. To Inc.
• 22:22
  Mark Pracht: He was taking them into the Marvel offices, where everybody was laughing at them.
• 22:28
  Mark Pracht: So
• 22:31
  Tad Eggleston: That would be a reason to rip into Vince.
• 22:33
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, it's just.
• 22:34
  Tad Eggleston: It's not cool.
• 22:37
  Mark Pracht: Like that's that is a rumor that is a a story
• 22:41
  Mark Pracht: might be true, might be not, you know.
• 22:46
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and that makes me wonder about my next nitpick that we're a few books away from getting to
• 22:53
  Tad Eggleston: because we want to like. It's it's something that an anchor could have done on the sly.
• 23:00
  Mark Pracht: Well, do you want to move on to new gods?
• 23:05
  Mark Pracht: Are we done talking about forever?
• 23:06
  Sean Harklerode: The epilogue.
• 23:08
  Mark Pracht: The epithe.
• 23:09
  Tad Eggleston: Epilogue at the beginning, and the prologue at the end.
• 23:14
  Mark Pracht: My favorite thing
• 23:16
  Mark Pracht: I mean look and and to to everyone out there in my play I sort of make fun of this.
• 23:24
  Mark Pracht: I totally understand what he's trying to do here.
• 23:27
  Mark Pracht: but it just throws you into it. And when I was 1st reading this book I was like, what the hell is he talking about the epilogue?
• 23:37
  Mark Pracht: And I was like, does Jack know what an epoch is.
• 23:40
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 23:45
  Mark Pracht: Excuse me!
• 23:47
  Mark Pracht: And actually.
• 23:48
  Tad Eggleston: That is a cool 1st page.
• 23:50
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 23:52
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's amazing.
• 23:53
  Tad Eggleston: And like.
• 23:53
  Mark Pracht: The dragon
• 23:55
  Mark Pracht: the whole you know. Essentially, you know, the rumor is, of course, that this is essentially what he imagined for Ragnarok in
• 24:02
  Mark Pracht: Thor.
• 24:03
  Tad Eggleston: That was going to jumpstart this series at Marvel.
• 24:07
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I can see that.
• 24:08
  Mark Pracht: And.
• 24:09
  Tad Eggleston: I even see the guy that should be Thor.
• 24:12
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 24:13
  Tad Eggleston: A hammer and and not quite wings, because you don't want to get sued.
• 24:18
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 24:18
  Tad Eggleston: But also he's fighting a guy that looks like he's got a round shield. So you know.
• 24:26
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like, and it it is. I. There is a lot of
• 24:35
  Mark Pracht: weird dialogue snafus in this book that I think are really strange. Yeah, but I do love this book. I I.
• 24:45
  Tad Eggleston: This is definitely the coolest looking of the 4.
• 24:47
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, this is the one that he clearly was his labor of love. Right?
• 24:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 24:54
  Mark Pracht: And the designs are all much more interesting.
• 25:00
  Mark Pracht: I love his shout out to Mobius, you know, with the chair.
• 25:06
  Mark Pracht: I did not remember that they let the cat out of the bag as far as the big secret like here in the 1st issue.
• 25:13
  Mark Pracht: you know, right with Orion being dark side sun.
• 25:21
  Mark Pracht: And I I was like, Wow, I did not remember that. And then I thought about
• 25:26
  Mark Pracht: I thought about Hitchcock, and how he would say that suspense
• 25:33
  Mark Pracht: was when the audience knows there's a bomb under the table, and other people the people at the table don't
• 25:40
  Mark Pracht: right.
• 25:41
  Mark Pracht: So there is I he! I think he's clearly trying to build the suspense of when is Orion going to find out right
• 25:49
  Mark Pracht: cause? A lot? Orion clearly doesn't know.
• 25:52
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 25:56
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I like it is. It is just truly beautiful. I I yeah, I love, I love.
• 26:04
  Mark Pracht: I feel like I feel like these environments of
• 26:09
  Mark Pracht: new Genesis and Supertown and Apocalypse are more well thought out than the environments in the other 2. In the other books I think that
• 26:22
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and.
• 26:22
  Mark Pracht: It. It helps that he doesn't have to interact with the regular DC universe. You know.
• 26:27
  Tad Eggleston: Just to prove that Jack can do it. Here I am looking at page 16, where Orion's about to go to battle with Calabak and Calabak, who is the right shape.
• 26:39
  Tad Eggleston: is kind of in that crouch, but he's got a club, so not entirely.
• 26:44
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 26:45
  Tad Eggleston: Ryan very much, is not?
• 26:47
  Tad Eggleston: He's wide stance, but he's much more upright.
• 26:52
  Tad Eggleston: Jack can make you. He even says he's ready for battle, and he looks ready for battle. It's an exciting panel, and it's not the wrestlers crouch.
• 27:05
  Tad Eggleston: I'm just assuming that I'm just gonna say some point.
• 27:09
  Mark Pracht: Ted, you're gonna have a real fun time reading all of these books.
• 27:15
  Tad Eggleston: I mean overall. I'm certain I will, because I'm certain that, particularly because of the way we're pacing them, I will get to the point where it doesn't bother me.
• 27:22
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 27:22
  Tad Eggleston: But but that this read through like as soon as I saw it in that 1st one, and then I kept seeing it, and kept seeing it and kept seeing it. And I'm like Jack.
• 27:32
  Tad Eggleston: pick a different pose.
• 27:40
  Mark Pracht: Well, even when Orion's on his little
• 27:43
  Mark Pracht: space scooter thing, he's kind of got to get down in that pose.
• 27:46
  Tad Eggleston: Yep, yep.
• 27:48
  Tad Eggleston: no, there are definitely orions in that pose. I think the other thing is, when Jack does it that way he often makes the arms look too long.
• 27:58
  Mark Pracht: Well look like I said. Right like I said. I don't think that Jack Kirby gave a wits.
• 28:06
  Mark Pracht: 2 2 wits about 2 2 shits. Let's just say it. I don't think Jack gave 2 shits about whether something was accurate.
• 28:16
  Mark Pracht: Anatomy.
• 28:17
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 28:18
  Mark Pracht: I mean it just it just didn't. It was all about energy.
• 28:23
  Sean Harklerode: I mean for that. Let's let's look at Calabak.
• 28:28
  Sean Harklerode: That.
• 28:30
  Tad Eggleston: He changes.
• 28:31
  Tad Eggleston: Guess this is another one of like I'll beat the 1st one to say it's another one of like my my autistic literal
• 28:42
  Tad Eggleston: hangups. I don't care if it's accurate to real world anatomy. I want it to be accurate to itself. If his arms look one length when he's
• 28:53
  Tad Eggleston: standing up, and a different length when he's crouched. It bothers me.
• 29:01
  Sean Harklerode: You may have a hard time.
• 29:05
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know, like I I remember there was a friend of ours
• 29:10
  Mark Pracht: Annie Hogan, who
• 29:13
  Mark Pracht: One night we were out at the bar, and we, I think you had bought a Kirby Black Panther book.
• 29:19
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 29:20
  Mark Pracht: And I was trying to.
• 29:22
  Sean Harklerode: Fraud.
• 29:24
  Mark Pracht: What?
• 29:25
  Sean Harklerode: The mystery of King Solomon's Frog.
• 29:28
  Mark Pracht: That's right, and I remember that's the only.
• 29:30
  Tad Eggleston: Thing that I won't forgive Kirby for, because, like the black panther run that got killed for that was really good.
• 29:39
  Mark Pracht: Right?
• 29:40
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, like all his his. Well, we're kind of jumping the gun here. But his return to marvel in the seventies was so fraught with all sorts of stuff, and he was like, I don't want to interact with any of the like. I'm not going to cross over with anybody. I don't want these characters to be part of anything else, you know, and and I think that
• 29:59
  Mark Pracht: it really hurt his reputation with a lot of people, because, like
• 30:08
  Mark Pracht: like those Captain America books he did in the in the mid to late seventies are
• 30:14
  Mark Pracht: kind of fantastic, but they're also sort of nuts, you know.
• 30:19
  Sean Harklerode: All right, the map bomb.
• 30:21
  Sean Harklerode: But back to Black Panther and.
• 30:27
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, I was just trying to explain to her what what was exciting about the artwork. You know that the characters were just like so dynamic, and they were always in the most extreme position, and
• 30:37
  Mark Pracht: I think she was like boy stuff.
• 30:42
  Sean Harklerode: And if you'd like to, you know, see some of the writings of Annie Hogan. She has a 1 act play directed by Sean Harkle road appearing at the ghost light ensembles.
• 30:57
  Mark Pracht: My goodness, Shawn.
• 30:58
  Sean Harklerode: 3 h tickets to this fine event.
• 31:00
  Sean Harklerode: March 8th on March 18.th
• 31:04
  Sean Harklerode: Okay.
• 31:04
  Mark Pracht: Is there a website that I can visit to.
• 31:08
  Tad Eggleston: Ghostlight ensemble.com.
• 31:12
  Sean Harklerode: Wow! Check that out.
• 31:14
  Mark Pracht: Look at that!
• 31:15
  Sean Harklerode: So I'll be acting in a piece, and I directed Annie.
• 31:20
  Tad Eggleston: Staged reading of short plays in.
• 31:25
  Mark Pracht: Set in about.
• 31:26
  Tad Eggleston: Ours.
• 31:30
  Tad Eggleston: So yeah, yeah, that that will make it into show notes, which will hopefully be done
• 31:38
  Tad Eggleston: before March 18.th I'm a little bit behind, so we'll see. We'll see.
• 31:43
  Tad Eggleston: This is. It's a hope.
• 31:45
  Mark Pracht: But I hope that I'll get show notes done before then.
• 31:50
  Mark Pracht: What I do think, what I do think Kirby is really good at doing in this book is that he does establish these factions right? There's
• 31:58
  Mark Pracht: highfather and Light Ray, who are sort of like the the
• 32:05
  Mark Pracht: perfection of the new genesis sort of attitudes, you know.
• 32:09
  Mark Pracht: and then there's Orion. That sort of chafes against it.
• 32:14
  Mark Pracht: He believes in it, but he doesn't feel comfortable there. Sort of the opposite of the Superman story, you know.
• 32:22
  Mark Pracht: And then you have metron.
• 32:28
  Mark Pracht: Who just doesn't care, you know it's pure knowledge in his Mobius chair.
• 32:36
  Mark Pracht: And then, of course, Darkside, who is fixated upon this anti-life thing, Anti-life, Anti-life.
• 32:45
  Mark Pracht: and I love going to. I love going to Apocalypse. I love that he has these 4 humans in this machine trying to suck the anti-live equation out of them?
• 32:56
  Mark Pracht: It did strike me. It's a little similar to the
• 33:01
  Mark Pracht: It's a little similar to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
• 33:04
  Mark Pracht: You know, where somebody, you know, Earth was there to solve the
• 33:10
  Mark Pracht: question of life, the universe, and the everything, you know, and and so somebody know.
• 33:17
  Tad Eggleston: I may have just dropped that reference, I mean.
• 33:25
  Mark Pracht: But I mean it. It is similar, like, there's this idea that there's somebody on earth who knows what this thing is that understands how to do it understands what it is, and how to make it real and
• 33:37
  Mark Pracht: to do whatever it is. You know.
• 33:42
  Mark Pracht: it seems like it talks about subjugation it talks about, I mean, the name Anti-life could suggest sort of a Thanos kind of thing, but.
• 33:51
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 33:56
  Mark Pracht: Yep.
• 33:57
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, this makes me think of Thanos a lot.
• 33:59
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 34:00
  Sean Harklerode: Which is probably more due to how both characters have been used.
• 34:04
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 34:05
  Sean Harklerode: You know, in the recent.
• 34:06
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, well, and I certainly think that.
• 34:12
  Mark Pracht: you know, we've talked about this before. I do think I do think that other creators have taken these characters and done more interesting things with them.
• 34:23
  Mark Pracht: But this is the wellspring from which it all came. I kind of love, Calabak.
• 34:33
  Mark Pracht: but I, this is this, I just really love this book. I think it's great. I there's some really, really, really bad dialogue. But
• 34:42
  Mark Pracht: and his
• 34:45
  Mark Pracht: Jack's use of bizarre. Let's see, I think it's in this. I know. I know he does it in. Mr. Miracle.
• 34:52
  Mark Pracht: Bizarre use of quotation marks.
• 35:00
  Mark Pracht: he said. Like in. I think it's in Mr. Miracle, he says, watching TV and TV is in quotes
• 35:07
  Mark Pracht: like TV isn't a real thing. I don't know.
• 35:10
  Tad Eggleston: I mean it's it's not, is it?
• 35:14
  Mark Pracht: Depends.
• 35:16
  Sean Harklerode: I.
• 35:16
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 35:17
  Sean Harklerode: I I feel like this is the book where this all comes together.
• 35:22
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 35:23
  Sean Harklerode: I mean, and it's obvious, you know, from page one.
• 35:27
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 35:27
  Sean Harklerode: I mean, this is, we start, you know, again this as guardian level crackle everywhere.
• 35:36
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 35:37
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, this to me, really feels like we're everything we've read up. Until this point.
• 35:43
  Sean Harklerode: I can kind of see how it comes together.
• 35:47
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 35:48
  Sean Harklerode: Calabak. I just his physiognomy
• 35:52
  Sean Harklerode: just changes so much. Where's that picture? Where is hit the bottom of page 19.
• 36:00
  Sean Harklerode: I know he's he's foreshortened, but
• 36:03
  Sean Harklerode: his head is so huge there compared to the rest of his body.
• 36:08
  Sean Harklerode: But it works, you know. Yeah, I mean
• 36:11
  Sean Harklerode: I'm not having Tad level, you know problems with it.
• 36:15
  Tad Eggleston: Well, see, I mean, this is weird. I don't actually have too much trouble with the way he treats Calabak.
• 36:21
  Tad Eggleston: Calabak feels more consistent to me in this than Orion does.
• 36:31
  Sean Harklerode: I do like the the humans that are just. We don't know how they got there.
• 36:36
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 36:37
  Sean Harklerode: They're just here.
• 36:38
  Mark Pracht: And they're like, what's going on, what's happening.
• 36:41
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 36:43
  Tad Eggleston: I mean the the bottom of page 21. That Calabak Head totally fits on the body of the calabak running on page 19.
• 36:53
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 36:54
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 36:55
  Mark Pracht: I actually one of my favorite panels is on page 16, where Calabak is trying to get through the energy gate.
• 37:02
  Mark Pracht: and it's just his face with a bunch of crews.
• 37:04
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 37:05
  Mark Pracht: Coming through the Kirby crackle.
• 37:06
  Sean Harklerode: Yep, but he kind of looks like the Supreme Intelligence.
• 37:13
  Mark Pracht: He does.
• 37:17
  Mark Pracht: The, you know there is. There is things in the Orion design that I do find interesting. I love the idea that on his helmet.
• 37:27
  Mark Pracht: You know we have this like eclipsed sun on his forehead, you know, and I think that.
• 37:40
  Tad Eggleston: Maybe some foreshadowing.
• 37:42
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, there's just a lot of a lot of things that we'll learn about Orion that that suggests. You know.
• 37:49
  Mark Pracht: He he believes in the he believes in the joy of of new Genesis and Supertown. But there is this
• 37:58
  Mark Pracht: warrior spirit that is his. That sort of keeps him from that.
• 38:04
  Mark Pracht: We'll also find out you know, spoilers. But there's some some interesting revelations about his appearance
• 38:14
  Mark Pracht: that come and
• 38:19
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, Mark, this, this book's been out for.
• 38:23
  Mark Pracht: I know.
• 38:24
  Tad Eggleston: Longer than I've been alive. So so you don't actually need to worry about spoiling.
• 38:29
  Mark Pracht: But, Ted, I want you to find it out on your own.
• 38:32
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. Okay. Fair. Fair.
• 38:33
  Mark Pracht: Well, that doesn't match what he drew before.
• 38:39
  Tad Eggleston: Isn't gonna let me forget that.
• 38:41
  Mark Pracht: No, it's okay. I'm.
• 38:42
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and I mean it's something I noticed when we were going through all of the marvels.
• 38:51
  Tad Eggleston: I find Kirby to be inconsistent. It's not. I don't think that he absolutely doesn't care. It's that he doesn't always care.
• 39:01
  Mark Pracht: I also think you can't remember a lot of time.
• 39:03
  Tad Eggleston: Right, you know you can tell which books he was just pounding through, getting the pages out, never looking at them again, and which ones he
• 39:13
  Tad Eggleston: crafted.
• 39:17
  Mark Pracht: I mean. I also think that when you go through these books you can see
• 39:24
  Mark Pracht: where he's rushing, and I think anytime he does double page spread, or a ton of of splash pages. He's trying to get through it as fast as possible.
• 39:34
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 39:36
  Sean Harklerode: And this.
• 39:36
  Mark Pracht: One it has like he limits the panels because he wants those panels to pop, but he's not. He's not stopping everything, for like
• 39:47
  Mark Pracht: 2 page spread.
• 39:49
  Sean Harklerode: I I would say I mean to that.
• 39:52
  Tad Eggleston: He does do a pretty pretty strict 6 panel grid, and.
• 39:56
  Mark Pracht: I wanna be clear? I'm not. I don't think I think that is a feature, not a bug right.
• 40:00
  Tad Eggleston: No, I overall agree with you. I just
• 40:06
  Tad Eggleston: Kirby. And this why, why this this club
• 40:10
  Tad Eggleston: appealed to me to begin with, is that Kirby has always been somebody that fascinated me because there's no denying that he's fast. There's no denying that he has a wealth of creativity.
• 40:29
  Tad Eggleston: But there are some people who hold them up as like the superhero artist, and and
• 40:39
  Tad Eggleston: I don't like to just like dismiss it out of hand, because he does so much great work, but but to
• 40:47
  Tad Eggleston: there's been so much great work inspired by him. So I guess if if you're like one that that views Chuck berry as the Rock and roll Star.
• 40:57
  Tad Eggleston: which is a defensible argument.
• 40:59
  Tad Eggleston: In that case, Kirby's the superhero artist.
• 41:06
  Tad Eggleston: Damn.
• 41:07
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think that I think that a lot of these things that
• 41:13
  Mark Pracht: yeah we're talking about. But the crouching and things like that. I think that Jack's
• 41:19
  Mark Pracht: insistence on making each panel super dynamic
• 41:25
  Mark Pracht: that was picked up and used by other artists who
• 41:30
  Mark Pracht: maybe we're more consistent or more trained in things like anatomy. Certainly, like Neil Adams, has said that he was influenced by Jack. Steve Rood is absolutely influenced by Jack
• 41:44
  Tad Eggleston: I I you know he's not around. But I wonder how much Wally Woods 22 panels is kind of a response to. Yes, we need that dynamism. But we want more than 3 different ways to get that dynamism. Let's think of some others to have in our back pocket.
• 42:04
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I can say the same thing about Will Eisner, you know.
• 42:07
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I'm not! I'm not. That wasn't a.
• 42:12
  Mark Pracht: That wasn't actually supposed to be a slam.
• 42:16
  Mark Pracht: I know that.
• 42:16
  Sean Harklerode: I would just say, talk about Will Eisner. Look at that last page, you know.
• 42:22
  Tad Eggleston: That gives me a little Eisner vibe. Oh, yeah.
• 42:25
  Sean Harklerode: And.
• 42:26
  Tad Eggleston: I love the last page of this issue.
• 42:28
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah. I mean, we're we're talking about when Jack may have taken shortcuts, when you know, etc. I don't think this is the correct issue to to talk about that, because I don't see a single page in this book.
• 42:44
  Mark Pracht: No.
• 42:44
  Sean Harklerode: I mean this.
• 42:46
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no. And I didn't.
• 42:47
  Sean Harklerode: Work, of love.
• 42:49
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't mean to.
• 42:52
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't mean to make it sound like I was strictly saying that he was taking shortcuts as much as I think it's right that he wanted a certain dynam dynamism in each panel, but he was also working at a certain pace, and I don't think
• 43:08
  Tad Eggleston: like the more time I spend with Kirby.
• 43:12
  Tad Eggleston: the more I think that, unlike Eisner, unlike.
• 43:17
  Tad Eggleston: would, I don't think he took the time to like
• 43:22
  Tad Eggleston: formalize his creative toolbox. So so it's what's coming out of his head rather than like actually knowing. Okay, these are the things that I'm good at. If I don't know how to do something here. This is a way that I can still keep it dynamic. This is a way to, you know. I think he was going completely from instinct, and his instincts are amazing. So that's not meant as a dig, just a different way of working.
• 43:51
  Mark Pracht: No, it's sort of like when I talk about him, you know, like, and I think I think
• 43:56
  Mark Pracht: that issue of forever people and the Jimmy Olsen issues that we've looked at are full of much more.
• 44:02
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely!
• 44:03
  Mark Pracht: Moments when he's just like, Okay, if I do a double splash page here, I can draw it half the time, and
• 44:11
  Mark Pracht: I get 2 pages out of it.
• 44:13
  Mark Pracht: and that's that's just being a businessman, and I don't. I don't.
• 44:18
  Tad Eggleston: I don't begrudge him.
• 44:19
  Tad Eggleston: We also get some amazing double page spreads, you know.
• 44:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yes, we do.
• 44:23
  Mark Pracht: But you can. I think you can see when he is more
• 44:29
  Mark Pracht: dialed into what he's trying to do with the book.
• 44:34
  Mark Pracht: that he doesn't fall back onto those things as often.
• 44:38
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 44:40
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I guess I guess one of the reasons that I that that it pops into my head is like among creators that know where
• 44:48
  Tad Eggleston: where the name 22 panels comes from.
• 44:52
  Tad Eggleston: There's like a split between ones that are like, Oh, that's awesome! And ones that are like, Oh, 22 panels that are always boring, and I'm sitting there going. I know your work, and I love your work. But a you use those 22 panels a lot, whether you realize it or not. And B.
• 45:09
  Tad Eggleston: An argument could be made that that you don't use all 22 of them, and you don't do enough other stuff.
• 45:17
  Tad Eggleston: you know. It wasn't, wasn't about being interesting. It was about like this is at its heart a storytelling medium.
• 45:24
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 45:26
  Tad Eggleston: Everybody falls back on
• 45:33
  Tad Eggleston: things that they know and things that they do. Well.
• 45:36
  Tad Eggleston: when they're just trying to move a story along. Right? That's that's natural, no matter what medium you're in. So the wider you can make that toolbox
• 45:46
  Tad Eggleston: for those panels where you just need to move the story along
• 45:49
  Tad Eggleston: the more overall dynamic it's going to be.
• 45:54
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that.
• 45:59
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I would say that
• 46:03
  Mark Pracht: then it wouldn't be Kirby, you know.
• 46:05
  Tad Eggleston: No, I get it. And again.
• 46:06
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like it's. It's funny because you talk about storytelling. I think there was an interview with
• 46:16
  Mark Pracht: Eddie Van Halen at one time that I thought was really interesting in that he was like, I I don't care
• 46:23
  Mark Pracht: about the lyrics.
• 46:26
  Mark Pracht: I don't care what the singer does.
• 46:29
  Mark Pracht: The singer is irrelevant to me. I'm crafting the song, the music.
• 46:36
  Mark Pracht: and I tend to think that Kirby thought the same way.
• 46:41
  Tad Eggleston: That makes sense.
• 46:43
  Mark Pracht: That even when Kirby was allowed to write the dialogue, it wasn't as important to him as the art.
• 46:50
  Tad Eggleston: I'm certain.
• 46:52
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 46:55
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't wind up highlighting portions, but there were a couple of places that I actually caught. I'm like this feels like stand dialogue explaining what's happening in the picture, except that it's not explain, except that what's happening in the picture is not what's being explained.
• 47:15
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know famously the I feel I anger. I fight.
• 47:19
  Tad Eggleston: Right? Okay.
• 47:21
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, if you anger you feel, and you know it seems
• 47:29
  Tad Eggleston: But but I meant like more specifically them saying that they're going to do this. And it's like, but that's not what he's doing.
• 47:39
  Mark Pracht: Right
• 47:41
  Mark Pracht: well, I mean, you know, and like right at the top the the splash page right at the beginning.
• 47:53
  Mark Pracht: I have heard the word. It is battle right?
• 47:57
  Mark Pracht: Which sort of makes you assume that he's going into battle.
• 48:03
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 48:04
  Sean Harklerode: And then. But really he's just making his way to Supertown, you know. Right? I'm expecting, like a big fight scene to start it off, you know.
• 48:13
  Mark Pracht: And.
• 48:16
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I always come back to the opening of 7 samurai. Right?
• 48:21
  Sean Harklerode: Why are the bandits? Why are the horses racing?
• 48:25
  Sean Harklerode: Because it's more interesting to look at.
• 48:27
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, absolutely.
• 48:28
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:29
  Tad Eggleston: And yeah, actually, again, I can't emphasize enough that this isn't supposed to be harsh criticism as much as like.
• 48:42
  Tad Eggleston: I notice these things, and for the most part it works for me anyway, even though they niggle in the back of my head. So so part of what I'm trying to figure out is like, why.
• 48:52
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I know why I care and can't let go of it. I'm autistic. That has nothing to do with Kirby, why do I not actually care
• 49:01
  Tad Eggleston: in terms of how good I think Kirby is? That's what I'm exploring.
• 49:05
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think I think.
• 49:06
  Tad Eggleston: Why doesn't it wind up, ruining it for me where it might, with a lesser overall talent.
• 49:12
  Mark Pracht: You know, I think, that there are a hundred comic book artists who
• 49:22
  Mark Pracht: you see their work, and you kind of go.
• 49:27
  Mark Pracht: Who is that?
• 49:29
  Mark Pracht: Oh, it's that that guy. Okay, like once you tell me who it is, then I know who it is.
• 49:36
  Mark Pracht: especially working in like superhero books. Right.
• 49:39
  Mark Pracht: and I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to slam anybody or anything like that. But I mean, it's like, when you find when you find an artist who is like a Keith Geffen, or a Kirby, or a Steve Rood, or somebody who is so stylistically interesting and has a stylistic thing that isn't just about
• 49:59
  Mark Pracht: putting the stuff on the page right? I love Jim aparo, right? Love Jim aparo. But he is very much just sort of like we're putting this on the page. Right?
• 50:11
  Mark Pracht: It's stylistic. It's interesting. But there's no his, his anatomy, his
• 50:22
  Mark Pracht: his anatomy, his his structure, his technical skills, are so good that it? It kind of
• 50:33
  Mark Pracht: it, doesn't. You don't like I don't. Immediately. There's I will sometimes see a Jim Aparo page, and I'll be like, Okay, wait a minute. Is this
• 50:43
  Mark Pracht: is this, I don't know Graham Nolan, or somebody, you know. It's like
• 50:48
  Mark Pracht: It it does, is what I'm saying, making any sense.
• 50:54
  Sean Harklerode: Style.
• 50:55
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, they're stylists.
• 50:57
  Mark Pracht: That work. Jim. Yeah.
• 51:01
  Tad Eggleston: I mean what's going through my head and also goes through my head often as I'm reading Kirby, is that like
• 51:09
  Tad Eggleston: I can think of 2 artists that I think draw
• 51:13
  Tad Eggleston: less different faces than Kirby does right.
• 51:18
  Tad Eggleston: And they're also both artists that I adore
• 51:22
  Tad Eggleston: right? Because it's it's Steve Dylan and and Sean Phillips.
• 51:30
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 51:31
  Tad Eggleston: You know they they don't have a lot of different faces that they draw. They're good at a fair range of well, Phillips is good at a lot of emotion in those different faces. Dylan, so-so.
• 51:46
  Mark Pracht: Do you ever find yourself thinking these, this face that they draw a hundred times over looks an awful lot like their own.
• 51:52
  Tad Eggleston: That's definitely true of Phillips. In fact, his son called him out on it on my show. But when I when I said something I didn't. I didn't even mention the faces thing. And Jacob's like, well, I draw people that aren't myself.
• 52:10
  Mark Pracht: Nice.
• 52:13
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, but it makes sense. I mean, when you're learning how to draw.
• 52:18
  Mark Pracht: You're gonna be looking in a mirror, you know, right.
• 52:21
  Sean Harklerode: Looking at this
• 52:22
  Sean Harklerode: the last splash page with the right with the dark side, and I'm seeing Jack now right.
• 52:31
  Tad Eggleston: Jack is dark side. Oh, now it all makes sense.
• 52:36
  Mark Pracht: No, Jack would probably be offended by that.
• 52:38
  Tad Eggleston: Thought he wanted to bye row.
• 52:43
  Mark Pracht: Alright.
• 52:44
  Mark Pracht: Should we go on to the next thing?
• 52:46
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Let's talk some.
• 52:48
  Sean Harklerode: One of my favorite comic books ever.
• 52:52
  Tad Eggleston: This issue, or this series.
• 52:54
  Sean Harklerode: This issue.
• 52:55
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 52:56
  Sean Harklerode: And I think it's just because I had it
• 52:58
  Sean Harklerode: and read it and looked at it so many times.
• 53:04
  Tad Eggleston: I liked this issue a lot, though it had the single, most troublesome pair of panels to me.
• 53:13
  Tad Eggleston: and we're going to pull them up on screen. This is for from page 16 at the at the bottom.
• 53:20
  Sean Harklerode: No critical abilities. While discussing this.
• 53:25
  Tad Eggleston: Tell me if you you can tell me what's wrong with the bottom left panel.
• 53:39
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean.
• 53:41
  Sean Harklerode: What?
• 53:42
  Mark Pracht: It's steel hand isn't steel.
• 53:45
  Tad Eggleston: That's right.
• 53:46
  Tad Eggleston: Steel hand is putting a white glove on over the very flesh-like hand that will be steel in a second, and was steel on previous pages.
• 53:58
  Sean Harklerode: Who colored these.
• 54:00
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and what's with the glove?
• 54:03
  Tad Eggleston: This is what this is. Why I said I could see this being an anchor playing a joke.
• 54:09
  Sean Harklerode: So I think he had maybe flesh covered glove colored gloves because he has
• 54:15
  Sean Harklerode: flesh hands in the panel above.
• 54:19
  Tad Eggleston: Well, except that the hand that's supposed to be steel. Yes, it's flesh, but it's like you only see a teeny, tiny portion of it so that I can just say, is a colorist mistake.
• 54:30
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 54:31
  Mark Pracht: Well, I think it's interesting, like I'm I'm
• 54:35
  Mark Pracht: I did that. That panel on the right is one of those moments where I was like, Okay, how does this thing work?
• 54:44
  Mark Pracht: Because, like, initially, when I was reading this, I was like, Oh, okay, he's got a steel hand. That's sort of in this clinch. Right.
• 54:51
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 54:51
  Mark Pracht: And that he can use it to beat things right.
• 54:54
  Mark Pracht: But then he's like looks like he's opening his hand today, you know, like I'm like, is it solid steel, or is it just a steel skin, or you know, what is
• 55:04
  Mark Pracht: it.
• 55:05
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and that that actually leads me to another one of my.
• 55:10
  Tad Eggleston: but I did now remember a a, a point of
• 55:21
  Tad Eggleston: where, where, where the the words and the picture really really don't match. Very well.
• 55:32
  Tad Eggleston: And it's the when we're meeting steel hand before it's
• 55:37
  Tad Eggleston: he gave me this new hand. I didn't know its history, but with radiation treatments. It gained power power. My life changed. After that I smashed my way to a top job in Innergan just as easily as I smashed this great bar of solid titanium.
• 55:53
  Tad Eggleston: 2 things, why are there rivets and seams on a solid bar of titanium?
• 56:03
  Tad Eggleston: Right and second, a solid bar of titanium would not break into multiple, crazy pieces. It would bend.
• 56:15
  Mark Pracht: Pad.
• 56:16
  Mark Pracht: It's a comic book.
• 56:18
  Tad Eggleston: I get it I get it. But but one of the reasons that he wanted to write his own words was because Stan fucked up stuff like this.
• 56:27
  Mark Pracht: Well, listen, I think I think I am.
• 56:33
  Mark Pracht: you know, this is the book that
• 56:39
  Mark Pracht: was legitimately successful out of this this concept. Right.
• 56:48
  Mark Pracht: I think there, there is all sorts of things in this book that I've sort of like. Huh!
• 56:52
  Mark Pracht: But it it it almost doesn't matter like I.
• 56:56
  Tad Eggleston: And.
• 56:57
  Mark Pracht: No.
• 56:57
  Tad Eggleston: And.
• 56:57
  Mark Pracht: How much money does this guy have to build these, these escape tracks?
• 57:01
  Tad Eggleston: And again it it actually doesn't really
• 57:07
  Tad Eggleston: matter to me, either. I liked this book a lot. I loved that that it turns out that the original Mr. Miracle shared my 1st name.
• 57:19
  Tad Eggleston: good bit.
• 57:21
  Tad Eggleston: But but again, like autism, brain looked at that and went. Wait a minute, solid with rivets and seams.
• 57:32
  Tad Eggleston: Well.
• 57:33
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like the other thing is, is like he doesn't call it the mother box, but it is the mother box, and it's small enough to fit underneath his costume, you know, underneath, clothes on his arm.
• 57:44
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 57:45
  Mark Pracht: Yet when the forever people had their mother box, it was this giant box that they all.
• 57:49
  Tad Eggleston: That they all had to hold up together.
• 57:51
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 57:51
  Tad Eggleston: Well, it just means that there are different mother boxes for different people.
• 57:54
  Mark Pracht: I suppose that's true.
• 57:56
  Sean Harklerode: Well, I I wanted to.
• 57:58
  Sean Harklerode: go back to to steel hand
• 58:02
  Sean Harklerode: who doesn't just look like the Mole man.
• 58:08
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, no.
• 58:11
  Tad Eggleston: Look anything like the Mole Man.
• 58:13
  Sean Harklerode: Actually, I think.
• 58:15
  Sean Harklerode: rather than just looking like the Mole man. I believe he looks like Peter Laurie in mad love.
• 58:22
  Sean Harklerode: and I would I would be willing to bet which is based on the hands of Warlock. Fantastic old horror film.
• 58:31
  Tad Eggleston: Does anybody know how Big Jack's hands were?
• 58:37
  Sean Harklerode: Ross.
• 58:40
  Tad Eggleston: What?
• 58:41
  Tad Eggleston: Well, yeah, God, I I.
• 58:44
  Mark Pracht: On!
• 58:45
  Tad Eggleston: I meant of of the 2 of you, because not only does he draw big hands, but like the way he's got
• 58:53
  Tad Eggleston: steel hand holding a cigar here, I feel like is dead on the way. I've seen Kirby hold cigars, so I wonder how much he was his own hand model, and if he was just one of those guys that had the big.
• 59:07
  Tad Eggleston: strong, gripping hands.
• 59:10
  Mark Pracht: I mean. I I'm sure I know he was a pretty strong guy, but he was also a very small man, so.
• 59:16
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, well, and I think that's 1 of the reasons that that squat wrestler stance comes out is like, that is the way for somebody his, and he was a scrapper. We know he was a scrapper. That's that's the way for someone his size to manage to use their strength against a bigger opponent.
• 59:34
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 59:34
  Tad Eggleston: So it was absolutely the way he fought personally.
• 59:40
  Mark Pracht: I also am going to say this because I was thinking I was thinking about your problem with that stance. Page 18, when all the enter game guys are come running into the room. They're all in that same stance.
• 59:51
  Tad Eggleston: I was going to bring that up.
• 59:53
  Mark Pracht: I also was like, so okay, this mob.
• 59:58
  Mark Pracht: they're they're clearly mobsters, right? Getting equipment from dark side. Which odd. But okay, now they've got a costume
• 1:00:10
  Mark Pracht: that looks like Cossacks, you know.
• 1:00:12
  Tad Eggleston: Right Cossacks with the underwear on the outside, because it's it's a superhero comic.
• 1:00:17
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 1:00:18
  Tad Eggleston: I, does anybody know how we decided that superheroes wear their underwear on the outside.
• 1:00:25
  Sean Harklerode: Goes back to the strong man from the circus.
• 1:00:28
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. Okay.
• 1:00:30
  Sean Harklerode: But I thought the strong man just wore the underwear.
• 1:00:35
  Sean Harklerode: No, they had body stockings, I think.
• 1:00:37
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. Okay.
• 1:00:38
  Sean Harklerode: Mostly right.
• 1:00:40
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, they would have. They would wear like
• 1:00:42
  Mark Pracht: talking, and then something over it, so that they're, you know, Nutsack wasn't hanging out.
• 1:00:47
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:00:50
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I think single dish used that. And then everyone else just followed suit.
• 1:00:54
  Tad Eggleston: Gotcha gotcha that makes sense.
• 1:00:56
  Mark Pracht: I mean like, look, there's so many cool things in this book like the Mr. Miracle costume is amazing.
• 1:01:02
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I love the Mr. Miracle! Costume.
• 1:01:04
  Mark Pracht: It is. Like, you know.
• 1:01:08
  Tad Eggleston: I love his rocket.
• 1:01:10
  Mark Pracht: Yes.
• 1:01:11
  Tad Eggleston: I visually. I adore this.
• 1:01:14
  Mark Pracht: Inter gang rocket at the Intergame Rocket site.
• 1:01:18
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:01:19
  Mark Pracht: The mob needs to have a rocket site.
• 1:01:22
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean they are a mob clearly backed by both the Russians and darkseid.
• 1:01:29
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yes,
• 1:01:31
  Tad Eggleston: So they're a very special mob.
• 1:01:34
  Tad Eggleston: This isn't just your Italian mob.
• 1:01:38
  Mark Pracht: Although there's the one guy that looks very much like the Italian mob.
• 1:01:41
  Tad Eggleston: Well, because he saw which side of the which side the bread was buttered on, and he he like
• 1:01:48
  Tad Eggleston: trade it up.
• 1:01:49
  Mark Pracht: He wasn't interested in those those suits. He was like, Look, I'm in. But I'm not wearing that thing, hey?
• 1:01:56
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Sean Harklerode: I didn't sign up to join Timu. Aim.
• 1:02:00
  Mark Pracht: Deep away.
• 1:02:05
  Mark Pracht: It's true, it's true.
• 1:02:10
  Mark Pracht: but you know, like I think, like this is, this is a series that just makes me giggle because it's like.
• 1:02:19
  Mark Pracht: you know, there's always this talk of we're gonna go on tour. We're gonna we're gonna develop these these big escapes. And they're always like way, way way over designed. And I'm like, Okay, you haven't actually gone out and made any money yet.
• 1:02:35
  Mark Pracht: You can afford a giant steel ball and a ramp, and I mean, and as you get into it it gets even more ridiculous. But you know and then
• 1:02:47
  Tad Eggleston: That?
• 1:02:48
  Tad Eggleston: Why.
• 1:02:49
  Mark Pracht: W.
• 1:02:49
  Tad Eggleston: Owes money to the inter gang.
• 1:02:54
  Mark Pracht: You know, and this this Doranco factor, because apparently this character was inspired by Jim Storanco. And God bless
• 1:03:05
  Mark Pracht: Storanco and his self mythologizing.
• 1:03:11
  Mark Pracht: He probably loved this so.
• 1:03:14
  Sean Harklerode: Sure.
• 1:03:17
  Mark Pracht: It's kind of ama it it actually is always amazed me that Storanco hasn't
• 1:03:22
  Mark Pracht: done a Mr. Miracle series at some point or another. You know
• 1:03:28
  Mark Pracht: he would seem to be the guy to do it.
• 1:03:34
  Tad Eggleston: But I mean you're not wrong.
• 1:03:37
  Sean Harklerode: Duranco should just do an illustrated autobiography, memoir.
• 1:03:42
  Mark Pracht: It's true.
• 1:03:45
  Mark Pracht: Oh, thank you for sending me the the outland stuff Ted.
• 1:03:49
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely!
• 1:03:50
  Mark Pracht: I haven't opened it up yet, but
• 1:03:53
  Mark Pracht: it's fun. I'm glad to have.
• 1:03:54
  Tad Eggleston: I haven't opened up yet, either, but I figure we're only a year or 2 away from it in our heavy metal book club.
• 1:04:01
  Tad Eggleston: So.
• 1:04:03
  Mark Pracht: I knew that.
• 1:04:04
  Tad Eggleston: Don't get to it before then I'll get to it. Then.
• 1:04:08
  Sean Harklerode: A movie 1st r rated movie I ever saw.
• 1:04:13
  Mark Pracht: Outland.
• 1:04:13
  Sean Harklerode: Outland.
• 1:04:15
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's a do you know about this that Sterenko adapted that movie in heavy metal.
• 1:04:20
  Sean Harklerode: No.
• 1:04:21
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:04:21
  Sean Harklerode: Very cool.
• 1:04:24
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I think it was his last like regular work.
• 1:04:28
  Sean Harklerode: Huh!
• 1:04:31
  Sean Harklerode: I I couldn't understand how, you know. Sean Connery was firing a rifle on Jupiter.
• 1:04:39
  Mark Pracht: Shotgun, but.
• 1:04:40
  Sean Harklerode: Shotgun. Yeah.
• 1:04:42
  Mark Pracht: Hey! Man!
• 1:04:45
  Tad Eggleston: I mean in outer space.
• 1:04:47
  Tad Eggleston: Once you have decided that Sean Connery can stand on Jupiter.
• 1:04:55
  Tad Eggleston: Is it really that much further.
• 1:04:58
  Mark Pracht: Well, they're not actually on Jupiter. They're on a space station on orbiting one of the moons, if I remember correctly.
• 1:05:05
  Tad Eggleston: Okay? Well, then, he should definitely be able to fire the shotgun.
• 1:05:08
  Sean Harklerode: It's Peter Boyle.
• 1:05:10
  Mark Pracht: To Boyle.
• 1:05:10
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah. Always. Great.
• 1:05:13
  Mark Pracht: Anyway.
• 1:05:13
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, because Jupiter has moons that might be habitable. But Jupiter itself is a gas giant.
• 1:05:19
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:05:20
  Tad Eggleston: Be difficult to stand on.
• 1:05:22
  Sean Harklerode: I think I saw that movie at a drive-in.
• 1:05:25
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow!
• 1:05:28
  Tad Eggleston: Was the 1st picture.
• 1:05:30
  Mark Pracht: I remember seeing.
• 1:05:32
  Sean Harklerode: Think, that works.
• 1:05:33
  Mark Pracht: I remember seeing the TV ads for it, and they had, like that moment when the guy starts to inflate when he cuts a hole in his spacesuit, and it freaked me the hell out. I was just like.
• 1:05:45
  Mark Pracht: I don't. I want to see that, you know. 10 years later it's like. I kind of want to see that
• 1:05:51
  Mark Pracht: it feels very much in the alien vine, you know, like they're very clearly that that was like, Oh, we should do sort of a
• 1:06:00
  Mark Pracht: high noon with a kind of alien vine. So that's what it is.
• 1:06:04
  Mark Pracht: Corporations running space mining colony all that stuff. So anyway.
• 1:06:11
  Mark Pracht: But
• 1:06:13
  Mark Pracht: getting back to Kirby in the 4th World. I like new gods and Mr. Miracle are the 2 winners this month. They're just.
• 1:06:21
  Tad Eggleston: Totally.
• 1:06:21
  Mark Pracht: There is just like I love Oberon. I love Thaddeus. I love Scott free, you know. I do think it's interesting how he almost immediately lets us know the secret for Orion. But we're not going to even touch what the hell's going on with Scott, you know.
• 1:06:41
  Mark Pracht: and
• 1:06:43
  Mark Pracht: or how he got there, or you know what his connection is like. Quite seriously, you could read this book and not know that it's part of this 4th world
• 1:06:55
  Mark Pracht: like it doesn't go into it at all other than the enter game thing.
• 1:06:58
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:06:59
  Mark Pracht: Because I don't think they talked to Dark side or anything.
• 1:07:04
  Tad Eggleston: Does Mr. Miracle then wind up in the other books, or.
• 1:07:10
  Mark Pracht: Well, okay, 50 year old spoiler.
• 1:07:16
  Mark Pracht: basically, we find out that there was a exchange of children.
• 1:07:19
  Tad Eggleston: Of Orion for Mr. Miracle, that right.
• 1:07:22
  Mark Pracht: So Orion is the son of Dark Side, and Mr. Miracle, scot free, is the son of Highfather, and they send them to the other planet to keep the peace.
• 1:07:35
  Mark Pracht: How that works I don't really know. But okay,
• 1:07:38
  Tad Eggleston: I mean. I know that from the Tom King Series.
• 1:07:41
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:07:42
  Mark Pracht: And then.
• 1:07:43
  Tad Eggleston: But you just said that like it's not dealt with in a Mr. Miracle series at all. So.
• 1:07:48
  Sean Harklerode: No, not in this issue.
• 1:07:50
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay, okay, like, you could read this issue and not have any idea whole series without.
• 1:07:55
  Mark Pracht: Right. No, I mean.
• 1:07:57
  Tad Eggleston: Understood.
• 1:07:57
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, it like he
• 1:08:00
  Mark Pracht: like, we do start getting bits, you know, when big big Barda shows up that really starts tying things in and.
• 1:08:07
  Tad Eggleston: Speaking of big.
• 1:08:09
  Mark Pracht: Really, when the show that to me that's when the book really takes off is when big Barter shows up.
• 1:08:14
  Tad Eggleston: If you're not reading birds of prey. Big Barda and Batgirl Cassandra Kane are like the dynamic duo you never knew you needed.
• 1:08:29
  Mark Pracht: If I never knew I needed it then.
• 1:08:32
  Tad Eggleston: I get it, but, like if you if you read it, you'll get hooked.
• 1:08:37
  Tad Eggleston: Kelly Thompson has been writing them very well together. I mean. The whole book is great, but my favorite part of that book is is the interactions between
• 1:08:47
  Tad Eggleston: Barda and Batgirl.
• 1:08:50
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think you can make a real serious argument. That Big Barda is the best character in any of these books.
• 1:08:56
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:08:58
  Mark Pracht: She's fine.
• 1:08:59
  Tad Eggleston: Pretty, awesome.
• 1:09:00
  Mark Pracht: And she doesn't show up for quite a while. So we've got several months before we're gonna be introduced to her. So.
• 1:09:05
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:09:07
  Tad Eggleston: It's something to look forward to, something to keep me going.
• 1:09:12
  Mark Pracht: So yeah, a real winner. I think it's great. There are nitpicks. Yes.
• 1:09:21
  Mark Pracht: there are bizarre jumps of logic, you know.
• 1:09:25
  Sean Harklerode: But I mean there is.
• 1:09:28
  Mark Pracht: What was the thing?
• 1:09:30
  Sean Harklerode: But you know this, this came out in the seventies very early seventies, and so I I'm not so sure. In 1971
• 1:09:39
  Sean Harklerode: you know, escape artists. But
• 1:09:42
  Sean Harklerode: later in the seventies, when I was reading this as a kid.
• 1:09:46
  Sean Harklerode: we were all about Evo Knievel.
• 1:09:48
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 1:09:49
  Sean Harklerode: And so this just I just love this book.
• 1:09:56
  Sean Harklerode: Working on the the different contraptions.
• 1:10:00
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, so let me see if I've got the chronology right.
• 1:10:04
  Tad Eggleston: Jack Kirby created Jim Sterenko, who was the the influence on Evel Knievel.
• 1:10:12
  Tad Eggleston: According to Kirby and Storenko.
• 1:10:14
  Mark Pracht: No.
• 1:10:15
  Sean Harklerode: No.
• 1:10:18
  Mark Pracht: Jim Storanco was a Yeah, no, we're not. I'm not gonna delve into this
• 1:10:24
  Mark Pracht: like I will say, like like I find I find Jack's random quotation marks really charming and also befuddling.
• 1:10:33
  Mark Pracht: My favorite is on page 21 3rd panel. Now, Mr. Miracle, you've just about had it had. It's in quotes.
• 1:10:44
  Mark Pracht: I don't know how you got free of that missile, but I'm like, why is had it in quotes.
• 1:10:52
  Sean Harklerode: Well, because it's a euphemism.
• 1:10:56
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, cause, cause.
• 1:10:58
  Sean Harklerode: That's got it.
• 1:10:59
  Sean Harklerode: Good.
• 1:10:59
  Tad Eggleston: Mean.
• 1:11:00
  Sean Harklerode: Next time there are quotes I don't know what.
• 1:11:02
  Tad Eggleston: Corned beef sandwich, but in this case had it means, almost had death.
• 1:11:09
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:11:12
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:11:15
  Mark Pracht: yes, you know. And I made a I made a joke about it in the show. Yes, I mean like, but it is one of those things that makes that charms me about Jack, and also just befuddles me because I'm like, what?
• 1:11:29
  Mark Pracht: What is that? Why is that there.
• 1:11:38
  Tad Eggleston: I I don't know why I mean, why don't they? They put quote. He puts quote. He doesn't put quotation around marks around hyper sound intensifiers that feels more more in need of quotation marks, and maybe a copyright symbol.
• 1:11:56
  Mark Pracht: Yeah. Well, I mean on page 7 lower, lower or lower
• 1:12:02
  Mark Pracht: lower cross section. Shut up. Get off that closed circuit TV, TV.
• 1:12:06
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:12:06
  Mark Pracht: Books. It's a.
• 1:12:07
  Tad Eggleston: Well, well, because it's closed. Circuit.
• 1:12:10
  Mark Pracht: It's okay.
• 1:12:11
  Tad Eggleston: Not really a television, because it's closed circuit. It's a it's a monitor.
• 1:12:20
  Mark Pracht: Page 5. We'll see who cools down, who who? The second, who is in, quotes.
• 1:12:27
  Tad Eggleston: Trouble. Trouble with an old has been.
• 1:12:32
  Mark Pracht: It's just weird.
• 1:12:34
  Tad Eggleston: A dwarf.
• 1:12:40
  Mark Pracht: Only we could get Mark even here to talk about this.
• 1:12:43
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:12:45
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:12:47
  Tad Eggleston: He's still alive.
• 1:12:49
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:12:50
  Mark Pracht: Yup, anyway. All right.
• 1:12:52
  Mark Pracht: So are we done talking about the Mr. Miracle.
• 1:12:55
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I mean the the the thing that that struck me on this rereading is I I pieced out the kinda
• 1:13:03
  Sean Harklerode: updating of the hands of Orlock
• 1:13:06
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:13:07
  Sean Harklerode: Origin, story for still hand, so.
• 1:13:13
  Mark Pracht: So Superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, number 1, 36.
• 1:13:21
  Tad Eggleston: Where Jimmy becomes the hulk or the hulk is cloned from Jimmy. Something like that.
• 1:13:28
  Sean Harklerode: I tell you there are so many bioethical issues in this comic book disturbing to me.
• 1:13:37
  Mark Pracht: Nice, Neil!
• 1:13:38
  Sean Harklerode: It really actually disturbed me on this reading.
• 1:13:40
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, well, yeah. And no one seems to be particularly, yeah, it's yeah. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:13:48
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah. Who cares? Oh, yeah, they're cloning everybody.
• 1:13:52
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, we've cloned an entire army of tiny scrappers.
• 1:13:59
  Mark Pracht: And and everybody's like, Oh, wow, yeah.
• 1:14:02
  Tad Eggleston: Cool.
• 1:14:06
  Tad Eggleston: Well, it's only a natural church.
• 1:14:11
  Sean Harklerode: And flip. A dip is back in his uniform.
• 1:14:14
  Mark Pracht: Yep.
• 1:14:14
  Sean Harklerode: Here on the splash
• 1:14:21
  Mark Pracht: Well, the Golden Guardian.
• 1:14:24
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah. So was the Golden Guardian, a a Simon and Kirby who who created the Golden Kirby.
• 1:14:30
  Mark Pracht: It was a Simon Kirby. He was actually in the Newsboy Legion book.
• 1:14:34
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, okay.
• 1:14:34
  Mark Pracht: He was sort of there they would get in trouble, and the Golden Guardian would show up and.
• 1:14:39
  Mark Pracht: Save them.
• 1:14:42
  Mark Pracht: So yeah, I think it was a.
• 1:14:45
  Mark Pracht: It was either Simon Kirby or it was a Kirby I can't remember which.
• 1:14:49
  Sean Harklerode: I I mostly know the Golden Guardian from the from the triangle period.
• 1:14:55
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:14:56
  Tad Eggleston: And I didn't actually catch this until until right now, like
• 1:15:04
  Tad Eggleston: 1st of all, when they're hosing down the the hulk, Jimmy, with with.
• 1:15:10
  Sean Harklerode: It's good.
• 1:15:12
  Tad Eggleston: Liquid nitrogen. It has a lot in common with some some unauthorized Calvin stickers I see on pickup trucks.
• 1:15:24
  Tad Eggleston: but second, we go from hulk to on the next page Silver surfer.
• 1:15:29
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:15:31
  Tad Eggleston: Liquid nitrogen, turns hulk into silver, surfer.
• 1:15:35
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:15:37
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, like.
• 1:15:40
  Mark Pracht: there is a lot of stuff here like that. When you think about it for more than 2 min, it's like really disturbing.
• 1:15:49
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and also apparently the the
• 1:15:54
  Tad Eggleston: Clones are made in lava lamps.
• 1:15:57
  Tad Eggleston: Is that is that what we're seeing on page 12.
• 1:15:59
  Mark Pracht: Pretty much. Yes.
• 1:16:05
  Tad Eggleston: I mean cool, I guess.
• 1:16:09
  Mark Pracht: Page 13. The most unuseful map we've ever seen.
• 1:16:15
  Tad Eggleston: But but it tells us the way to the domain of the Harrys.
• 1:16:18
  Sean Harklerode: Review, zoom, way.
• 1:16:20
  Tad Eggleston: The the mountain of judgment, also the habitat right, and the wild area, and the project very.
• 1:16:35
  Tad Eggleston: very creative names. I never ever would have come up with those ever.
• 1:16:41
  Mark Pracht: They are unknowns in quote, even as they grew, they hid from us.
• 1:16:47
  Tad Eggleston: The project.
• 1:16:49
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, in quotes.
• 1:16:54
  Mark Pracht: And I don't understand it.
• 1:16:59
  Mark Pracht: The all clear, all clear in quotes has sounded. Now, how is.
• 1:17:05
  Tad Eggleston: Is, that.
• 1:17:05
  Mark Pracht: All right. Awesome.
• 1:17:06
  Tad Eggleston: Opposed to the only somewhat clear.
• 1:17:12
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like model one is one of the Clones. So I that one I can get being in some sort of quotes.
• 1:17:20
  Tad Eggleston: But phone, a guardian is not.
• 1:17:22
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:17:27
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. See, I managed to miss that going through the 1st time. But I'm not gonna be missing it. Going forward.
• 1:17:35
  Mark Pracht: Well, the human cell is still applied.
• 1:17:37
  Tad Eggleston: Hey? At least the project is always in quotes.
• 1:17:42
  Mark Pracht: Experiments have produced the step-ups.
• 1:17:44
  Sean Harklerode: Scary.
• 1:17:47
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:17:48
  Tad Eggleston: Well, isn't there a isn't there a graph that tells us about the oh, the wait a minute. Okay.
• 1:17:56
  Tad Eggleston: Normal step ups and aliens.
• 1:17:59
  Tad Eggleston: Dna, molecule.
• 1:18:01
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:18:02
  Tad Eggleston: Is only half in quotes.
• 1:18:07
  Sean Harklerode: Right. It never ends.
• 1:18:12
  Mark Pracht: You mean this project can actually grow.
• 1:18:14
  Mark Pracht: Oh, my God!
• 1:18:14
  Mark Pracht: Non-humans in quotes.
• 1:18:17
  Sean Harklerode: That's over a Kirby collage.
• 1:18:21
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:18:24
  Mark Pracht: DNA nucleus.
• 1:18:28
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah, then we've got our graphic for normal step ups and aliens.
• 1:18:35
  Mark Pracht: Then the 4, you know, like there is a part of me that feels like.
• 1:18:40
  Mark Pracht: you know, when we decided to do this, it's like
• 1:18:46
  Mark Pracht: I really do feel like the the Jimmy Olsen stuff is not really in the mythology of it.
• 1:18:57
  Mark Pracht: It feels like it just bounces off of it.
• 1:19:00
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:19:03
  Tad Eggleston: Aren't the Harrys the forever people.
• 1:19:05
  Mark Pracht: You know I no, I don't think so.
• 1:19:09
  Mark Pracht: The Harry's are just regular hippies
• 1:19:12
  Mark Pracht: who live in the mountain of judge Justice in their.
• 1:19:19
  Tad Eggleston: But they've got cool motorcycle thingies.
• 1:19:24
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, but everybody has a cool motorcycle thingy. Come on.
• 1:19:29
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay.
• 1:19:29
  Mark Pracht: Everyone.
• 1:19:34
  Tad Eggleston: See, I just assumed that the Harrys were tied to the forever. People.
• 1:19:43
  Sean Harklerode: I think I kind of assumed that, too.
• 1:19:47
  Sean Harklerode: They're not the forever people, but.
• 1:19:49
  Mark Pracht: No, they might be. I I don't know.
• 1:19:52
  Tad Eggleston: They might be, they might all be. Step ups is what I'm saying.
• 1:19:56
  Mark Pracht: Right. So, although the forever people came from new genesis.
• 1:20:01
  Tad Eggleston: Well, we don't know that the Harrys didn't.
• 1:20:09
  Tad Eggleston: I mean they had that crazy ship.
• 1:20:12
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:20:14
  Mark Pracht: No, no, no, we're the Harry's my my
• 1:20:25
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. No.
• 1:20:26
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:20:26
  Tad Eggleston: I think.
• 1:20:29
  Tad Eggleston: and and I don't know if Jack would be happy about this or not. I think one of the things that I'm loving is that
• 1:20:38
  Tad Eggleston: There's a sense of humor to it.
• 1:20:40
  Tad Eggleston: Sure it's it's
• 1:20:43
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I can feel that there's gonna be serious issues that he's dealing with. We're starting to see some of them.
• 1:20:51
  Tad Eggleston: We're not seeing others that we should be seeing a la the the cloning ethics.
• 1:21:00
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's okay to clone people.
• 1:21:03
  Tad Eggleston: But there's a certain humor that is childlike without being childish.
• 1:21:11
  Mark Pracht: Oh, sure, yeah, no, I think you know, this is the I mean. I think this book is for the general audience of the early 19 seventies, so that would have been like 8 to 10 year olds. So.
• 1:21:23
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:21:23
  Mark Pracht: You know it is about keeping things moving, keeping things bright and spectacular. I think I think new gods and Mr. Miracle, and forever. People are intending to hit a slightly older crowd.
• 1:21:38
  Mark Pracht: I think that.
• 1:21:40
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I was actually speaking of all 4 of them as a whole.
• 1:21:45
  Mark Pracht: Oh, sure! But.
• 1:21:46
  Tad Eggleston: This one, I think.
• 1:21:48
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I think there is. There is a lot of have have.
• 1:21:52
  Tad Eggleston: Have that
• 1:21:56
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it was something. It's in my head, because it was something that came up on the podcast I did earlier as as like wouldn't surprise you talking about the Harley Quinn fartacular. The fact that there's like a tendency among people to become adults and think that they need to be serious, and being serious means disavowing the things that they enjoyed as children and like that's dumb.
• 1:22:25
  Mark Pracht: Well, no, I I it's part of it's part of what
• 1:22:30
  Mark Pracht: and open this one. But but I mean, it's part of what's really kind of annoying to me about Star Wars fandom at this point. It's like this, this shit is goofy, you know.
• 1:22:40
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Just have fun.
• 1:22:42
  Mark Pracht: And you might as well just enjoy it as the goofy thing that it is rather trying desperately to make it into
• 1:22:50
  Mark Pracht: something. You know.
• 1:22:52
  Tad Eggleston: I'm with you on that. And the other thing that I'll say about literally any fandom is like
• 1:22:59
  Tad Eggleston: not liking one corner of it really shouldn't have to ruin the rest of it, for you just don't like that corner of it.
• 1:23:10
  Mark Pracht: No, I'm and it's like, and the the thing about it is is like, I think, also that fandom
• 1:23:18
  Mark Pracht: it starts to lead you into this path of saying that everything has to be to my liking right?
• 1:23:24
  Mark Pracht: And it's like it, doesn't, you know, you know, like, just because
• 1:23:29
  Mark Pracht: there are lots of stuff there, you know. I love Batman, but there are lots of batman books that I just never touch, because I'm just like.
• 1:23:37
  Tad Eggleston: I would be willing to bet that, assuming I actually took the time, and chose to read every batman book which I don't think I ever would.
• 1:23:46
  Sean Harklerode: Good evening.
• 1:23:47
  Sean Harklerode: One.
• 1:23:48
  Tad Eggleston: I mean. Douglas Wolk managed to read every marvel book, so I'm certain that it could be done.
• 1:23:57
  Tad Eggleston: I would wind up thinking that only
• 1:24:00
  Tad Eggleston: 20 or 30% of them were good, and maybe only 10% of them were ones that I wanted to read or read again, or recommend.
• 1:24:10
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 1:24:11
  Tad Eggleston: Because I mean, as soon as you have that level of stuff.
• 1:24:17
  Tad Eggleston: you know, I mean even even stuff that like I mean, I have this this conversation with my son sometimes about music, about comics, and whatever you know, he'll love something, and I'll listen to it, and I'll like it, but it will be.
• 1:24:33
  Tad Eggleston: It will touch me in the same way that something
• 1:24:36
  Tad Eggleston: that's already in my repertoire touches me so it's like
• 1:24:41
  Tad Eggleston: I have no problem with this being your favorite.
• 1:24:44
  Mark Pracht: But.
• 1:24:45
  Tad Eggleston: If I'm in the mood for this type of story, I'm going to go here because that's my favorite.
• 1:24:54
  Tad Eggleston: you know.
• 1:24:55
  Mark Pracht: Well, it's just like, you know, the idea that you can opt out on things like look
• 1:25:04
  Mark Pracht: If I was reading these books in the early seventies. As a new reader I could conceivably see myself
• 1:25:11
  Mark Pracht: dropping Jimmy Olsen, and forever people pretty early, right like. Obviously, this is.
• 1:25:20
  Tad Eggleston: And honestly, my only fear is depending on what age I was in in that time I might have never picked up new gods or
• 1:25:29
  Tad Eggleston: Mr. Miracle, because of Jimmy Olsen.
• 1:25:32
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:25:34
  Tad Eggleston: You know, because if I was young enough then, maybe.
• 1:25:38
  Tad Eggleston: or if I was old enough to appreciate what Jimmy Olsen did. Well, even if it wasn't my cup of tea, maybe, but if I was like a teenager
• 1:25:47
  Tad Eggleston: it would have been the kiss of death for all of his books.
• 1:25:50
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:25:51
  Sean Harklerode: I mean not to backtrack, but
• 1:25:54
  Sean Harklerode: to go back to the cover of Mr. Miracle number One. You're picking up that book.
• 1:26:00
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:26:01
  Sean Harklerode: Probably that's.
• 1:26:02
  Mark Pracht: It's a great cover.
• 1:26:03
  Tad Eggleston: It's a plan I've I've never been a cover Guy.
• 1:26:06
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, God!
• 1:26:07
  Tad Eggleston: I'm like the weirdest comic book collector ever that I very rarely pick up a book
• 1:26:13
  Tad Eggleston: strictly for its cover, except my very 1st comic, and that's because all of the heroes are on the cover of secret wars number one, and then it had less to do with the art on the cover, and and more to do with the number of heroes I was debating between the spider-man and marvel team up and the the Superman and batman world's finest, but those each had 2 heroes, and the the secret wars had what 1213.
• 1:26:43
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, it's, you know.
• 1:26:44
  Tad Eggleston: Math.
• 1:26:45
  Mark Pracht: The you know, we talk about the you know, apocryphal golf game between Leibowitz and
• 1:26:55
  Mark Pracht: Martin goodman, you know.
• 1:26:58
  Mark Pracht: Why sell kids once. Why, why would kids buy a book with one superhero when you give them 5? You know it's like.
• 1:27:05
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:27:05
  Mark Pracht: It's like there's something there, I mean. Then that's a kid that's a kid logic thing.
• 1:27:12
  Mark Pracht: But it's it's perfectly fine, and it's you know. And you you set those things. And you think.
• 1:27:17
  Mark Pracht: oh, this is going to be something that I will love forever, because it's always going to be there. And it's something that that when I picked it up I remembered how exciting that was I mean. Look.
• 1:27:28
  Mark Pracht: I.
• 1:27:28
  Tad Eggleston: Ironically.
• 1:27:29
  Tad Eggleston: Be interesting.
• 1:27:30
  Tad Eggleston: Older, I've more decided. It's really hard to write a good team book.
• 1:27:34
  Tad Eggleston: Sure, I'm way less likely to like a team book than a.
• 1:27:39
  Mark Pracht: Well, you know, and there's a reason why the team books they always have, like one or 2 characters who have their own book, and then they have a bunch of characters who don't, because then you don't have to play that game of
• 1:27:50
  Mark Pracht: keeping up with what's going on in their book, but I do think it's really interesting that of all of these books the Jimmy Olsen does not have a Kirby cover.
• 1:28:00
  Mark Pracht: and I think I think that that's
• 1:28:03
  Mark Pracht: probably because of the this is what people expect from DC. They expect Neil Adams, you know, and I do think I mean, I mentioned this last time. And it's probably something I'm gonna revisit. A lot is like, I do think that
• 1:28:20
  Mark Pracht: I am one of those people that believes that these things could not have sold as well like. There's a lot of people who have a revisionist history where they want to say that these sold really well, and that DC. Just wanted to cancel them, and I tend to believe that if they were selling really well, DC. Would have kept publishing them
• 1:28:37
  Mark Pracht: right, and
• 1:28:41
  Mark Pracht: I do think that there is a real interesting thing about saying, here's Kirby. He's leaving Marvel where he's ensconced as the artist right? And he's going over to DC. Where we've got Neil Adams and Danny O'neill doing, you know, hard traveling heroes, and all of these things that are
• 1:29:02
  Mark Pracht: much more hyper realistic artwork, and much more
• 1:29:09
  Mark Pracht: rip from the headlines. Sort of storylines and dialogue, right? So
• 1:29:15
  Mark Pracht: this must have seemed a little weird because they do. They do feel like Golden age books. They feel like anything can happen at any moment, and that
• 1:29:26
  Mark Pracht: and that there's if you, if you allow yourself to just jump into that, it's fun. And it's exciting, right?
• 1:29:32
  Mark Pracht: But if you're used to having stuff be really, really
• 1:29:39
  Mark Pracht: rigorously planned out or rigorously structured.
• 1:29:44
  Mark Pracht: you're probably going to have a problem with these books.
• 1:29:51
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I
• 1:29:54
  Tad Eggleston: hadn't thought of it that way. I find myself now doing something that we sometimes do on the the milestone series, which I am
• 1:30:04
  Tad Eggleston: really really curious what came out this month in 1971.
• 1:30:14
  Tad Eggleston: So I'm going to go find out
• 1:30:17
  Tad Eggleston: one of the great great things that league of comic geeks is good for.
• 1:30:28
  Mark Pracht: But it's just like, you know, if you look at it, if you look at a
• 1:30:32
  Mark Pracht: if you look at a standard. Neil Adams book of this period.
• 1:30:37
  Mark Pracht: Man, that artwork is
• 1:30:41
  Mark Pracht: miles away from this, and that was what was really successful. And he was the hot artist at that time. And it's I tend to believe that that might be some of it.
• 1:30:54
  Sean Harklerode: Well, I will say that this is not Adam's best cover.
• 1:30:59
  Mark Pracht: No.
• 1:31:01
  Sean Harklerode: Jimmy Olson, 1, 36.
• 1:31:03
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:31:05
  Sean Harklerode: Jim Olsen, 1, 35 is a classic.
• 1:31:11
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:31:14
  Sean Harklerode: Or 1, 34.
• 1:31:16
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:31:17
  Sean Harklerode: The absolute classic.
• 1:31:22
  Tad Eggleston: All right.
• 1:31:23
  Mark Pracht: 1st Kirby did 1, 33.
• 1:31:28
  Tad Eggleston: So you had Brave and the bold with Batman and Sergeant Rock.
• 1:31:34
  Mark Pracht: Oh, Bob Haney.
• 1:31:37
  Tad Eggleston: Yep, Bob Haney and Nick Cardi.
• 1:31:40
  Mark Pracht: The Bob Haney verse where anything could happen right continuity did not matter.
• 1:31:47
  Tad Eggleston: Flash was Mike Friedrich and Irv Novak Novic. I don't know them as well.
• 1:31:59
  Sean Harklerode: Irv. Novik's art.
• 1:32:02
  Tad Eggleston: The Justice League of America was a Mike Friedrich and Dick Dillon.
• 1:32:17
  Tad Eggleston: Some of the marvel ones look like they have very Kirby covers, even though I know they don't.
• 1:32:23
  Mark Pracht: They also might have had some, some leftover.
• 1:32:26
  Tad Eggleston: That's possible, too.
• 1:32:28
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:32:32
  Tad Eggleston: Superman was Denny O'neill and Kurt Swan. So yeah, that was gonna be a very different superman.
• 1:32:38
  Mark Pracht: 4, yeah.
• 1:32:40
  Tad Eggleston: 5th part of the Sandman Saga Storyline.
• 1:32:44
  Tad Eggleston: Superman must now deal with, having abilities much closer to his original 1940. S. Self.
• 1:32:50
  Tad Eggleston: as he handles terrorist.
• 1:32:54
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, I mean, like, that's Denny, you know, always.
• 1:33:00
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:33:01
  Mark Pracht: Locked into something real, you know.
• 1:33:04
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:33:06
  Mark Pracht: Anyway, I gotta I gotta I gotta.
• 1:33:09
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, no. I figured we were. We were nearing our end.
• 1:33:13
  Tad Eggleston: Thank you, guys, this is this is always fun. I am.
• 1:33:17
  Mark Pracht: I will definitely.
• 1:33:18
  Tad Eggleston: Building a greater appreciation for Kirby, and seeing why so many people have mind these characters? Because there's a lot of stuff that's come out of 4th World
• 1:33:30
  Tad Eggleston: that I do know. So so yeah, thank you both. Again, for the 4th World Book Club. This has been Sean Hawker Road and Mark Pratt, and we will see you after the next page.